Rich and Ethical

While I was building our business in Brooklyn, it was tough to make money without people assuming that I was doing things wrong.

Dead Ass because when you come from the floor once, honey, we know how they make their money over there are some of them, dudes, and it's not always ethical.

Wow.

It all started with real talk, unfiltered, honest and straight from the heart. Since then, we've gone on to become Webby Award winning podcasters in New York Times bestselling authors.

Dead Ass was more than a podcast for us. It was about our growth, a place where we could be vulnerable, be.

Wrong, of course, but most apportly be us.

But as we know, life keeps evolving and so do we and through it all, one thing has never changed. This because we got a lot to talk about story times.

So Dolo's gonna laugh at this.

I remember when yes this seas I turned thirty twenty fourteen s eleven years ago, for my thirtieth birthday, I started to finally say, you know, I'm gonna do something for myself and I leased at Audi A seven. At the same time, Dolo had just bought his seven series BMW and we were running the program. Remember we started prototype in twenty ten started to gain popularity around twenty even twenty twelve. We were at our peak from twenty

I tried to make it purposefully affordable for our local folks.

And even though I was able to do that and able to train a bunch of kids and not make a lot of money off of those kids or their parents, it was still put on us by the community that we only did it to make money from those people, and that's all we were doing was making money.

And I ain't gonna lie to you.

It pissed me the fuck off and it made it that much easier for me to leave.

In that return. All right, karaoke time. What you got for us today, baby? Anything I've heard you? I heard you over there practice and warming up.

Bana banam damp damp damp, damn damn dannam damn damn.

Money money money, money, money, money, money, money.

Maney, that's all we got. I don't even know what goes past that. Do you know what it is? That's what I say. You know what my favorite money song was. This takes me back to when I used to work in Mac Cosmetics. Shout out to Mac Cosmetics.

We had the same I know what it is because never I came to pick you up.

Because it was one of those things. It was my theme song coming in after a while. Because I was one of the highest earners in each store that I was in.

My a us was always high at the same time.

Ready one two, I need dollars, dollars is what I need. Every time I came to pick ship with me money with something like that used to go. But it was such a good it was I don't even know.

I need to look.

That needs to go into my permanent playlist in rotation. All y'all, we're gonna take a quick break and we're gonna get back with op or no stick around.

All right, we back, all right, get.

Your battle close by. Hey, hey, all right, now talk to us, Talk to us, honey buns, what we got today?

All right? Right in my face here, man, in my face. It's all right.

Just another term of endearment.

When you have a fatty.

Come on, now, you say what I'm saying. From one fatty to the next.

Wow the fatty and me sees the fatty in you.

I love that for us. Y.

Look you see all the guys can't say nothing, right nothing. I hope y'all enjoy y'all.

Innocent?

All right.

So the Diddy trial has been in the news for the last few weeks, and lots of people are following it. I'm not really one of those people, but I have been seeing a lot of commentary on social media about it, which led me to wonder, is the Diddy trial the new or the current OJ trial? Back in I think nineteen ninety five, the live broadcast of the OJ verdict had an estimated one hundred and fifty million viewers, and it surpassed the.

Super Bowl, which is usually the biggest viewed event on TV. Even the live chase, the Bronco Chase. I remember that last time in the final nineteen four Oh wow.

So an estimated ninety five million people watched that chase on live on TV.

And so I'm wondering.

And the implications I guess at the time and for OJ Simpson in the future were pretty very heavily inspired by people's ability to watch it live.

I think it was one of the.

First or the first case to have it. Uh yeah, And so I'm wondering. Do you think the Diddy trial is the new OJ trial?

No about to say about this. I got an opt to my opic is no, I want to hear yours first.

At all.

It's nowhere closed. Everybody knows what was happening with OJ in some form of fashion and then the spin off with the series and everything. Yeah, it'll go into death more. I think there's potential for the Diddy thing to have a series. I don't, but no, I think there is grounds there, but it won't be about the case itself.

This is what I think, and this is what people are forgetting. We got to remember what was going on during that time. Right before OJ went on trial.

There was a huge disagreement between.

Black folks and white folks because of Rodney King, specifically in La So tensions were really high and it was like a who was gonna win?

I think in this Diddy case, everybody loses.

There's no winner, you know what I'm saying, Like, no one's gonna watch the verdict, being like, yeah, during the old j trial, when that verdict came out, I remember me and my friends and all of us no clue.

It was nineteen ninety four. I was ten years old. We ran outside.

Yeah we won.

We won.

It was like it felt like it was bigger than OJ. We were fighting. It was you see what I'm saying. We were fighting against an injustice against our people.

That was the very first form of I'm rooting for everybody black.

Yeah, yeah, evena even if you did it, even we were fighting for something.

This is coming off with Rodney and King too, right, So this is like police violence and police brutality, and we also we lost that one, and that was huge because we actually saw a video of him getting beat for the very first time.

Yes, and he's still uh, he still lost his case.

When now OJ comes up, you got a black man being accused of killing the white women, of course everybody's gonna say we want our justice, yes OJ.

So yeah, I do get that.

My argument prior to even on the show was that it is as big as it but Matt's case, Matt's op sort of convinced me that it's not necessarily as big. But I think part of this is I think for me, like I didn't know who OJ was at that time. Like I'm a kid, I was eleven, right, I didn't know who OJ was. I think everybody knows who did he is and some some sort of respect, like you, you kind of have an idea who did he is?

Gonna let her finish. I was gonna let you finished first. But I didn't know who did he was? I mean, who OJ. I don't think very cad who OJ is way big.

They didn't have to care who he was. They knew who OJ was you your parents know who OJ was being Caribbean.

People like, no, not really, I don't think I don't think so. I think OJ was an American hero.

But you gotta think the Caribbean population in America is way smaller than in nineteen ninety four. They are more just American black and American white woman OJ because he won the Heisman. But also remember the thing, I'm not black, I'm OJ. He was one of the high paid color commentators after he retired.

From the NFL.

He was personality, yes, like it would be like if Tom Brady was up for murder.

OJ was that big of a star that he felt he transcended blackness because white people just loved he was a football player.

He was he was proper. He's proper.

You know.

He wasn't a quote unquote a hood star. He went to USC which is the biggest football school. And during this time, people have to understand this. I believe it was Game five of the NBA Finals. We're watching one of the biggest sports. This is the Knicks versus the Houston Rockets. This is the first year without Michael Jordan. Everybody's watching the finals. He was gonna win and they interrupt the finals to show us the chase of the

It's like, what is this? Yeah, I think you know, I would agree with that. I think you were.

You had to be captivated because how how that case was introduced to them, right, Like it's almost like Diddy's Diddy for example, if Diddy was to see the video of him beating Cassidy Cassie live like it just happens.

Yeah, at that moment, you're, of course you're going to be now invested.

Yes, yes, right, So that that does make sense, Like you you were caltivated by that video is a long chase in the middle of fire like primetime TV. Right, So it was all so yeah, y'all did convince me? I changed my It's not as big as Diddy's case is not as as OJ.

But even in addition to that, the case is it was a murder case versus half the people in this case, people public opinion.

You could look at this case, and I don't really care.

You know what, that's a good point people, murder of Rico is, but murder that's I've never thought about that.

Yeah, a lot of people had to look up the whole Rico thing, and then there was the bait. There was a debate as to whether or not this was qualifications for a Rico case and sex traffic because people think that he'll he'll be acquitted by I feel.

Like that's the biggest thing that's driving conversation.

No one here is an attorney, but I have spoken to a lot of attorneys. I'm not an attorney, and.

This is what they say.

A Rico case is proving that you used your business empire to not only commit crimes, but hide those crimes. Now I'm not an expert, right, but think about it. What they're trying to prove is that Diddy, being a billionaire, use all of the people around him that were for such traffic.

Right. And this is another thing, is that well Cassie admitted that she wanted it. That doesn't matter, right.

Hiring sex workers is illegal, So if you hired sex workers and had your assistance pay them, flew them across state lines, had it covered up because you were bribing people at a hotel, all the things that happened. That means you use your business enterprise to cover up criminal activity. That's what they're trying to put on Diddy. Whether Cassie agreed or not, or was it part of the free court is not that's shouldn't even be talked about.

It's what resources did. Did he use to do all of this? Baby oil? And he used baby oil?

And this is not a joke, man, People, people's families are being hurt and y'all laughing resources.

God, I'm not gonna lie whenever k comes up the shower. Now, No, did he but to bring it back home. The fact that people don't.

Know what a rico is and don't know how to even look at it composed to saying did he kill her is a bigger difference. Plus, I honestly feel like everybody agrees that did he did?

He is the villain. Like there's nobody saying, I hope did he get His defense is saying he's a villain, right, Even the defense is saying like, oh, he did this and it was OJ. It was OJ would never do this. Looking so I'm saying I think it's just different, and.

There's a consent portion of it, like with the whole trial, whereas you don't get consent, you're just no consent to be murdered.

No, you don't need no consent, right, So.

Yeah, sounds good what you got for number two truths?

The president, the current president, is planning to pardon reality TV stars Todd and Julie Christly, your gay.

Husband didn't no best? You said the gay Apparently they did no banks.

Because twenty twenty two they were convicted of tax evasion and bank fraud. So they went around to a bunch of like small banks around Atlanta, community banks and they defrauded them out of three hundred or thirty six million dollars in personal loans, and then they also didn't pay their taxes, and Todd was sentenced to they were convicted. Todd was sentenced to twelve years in prison. His wife,

So op or no opp? Got an op?

This is what they do like, this is not new to me. This is what what Trump does. Like he finds his friends, He finds his people. You got money, I got money. You're willing to pay for whatever I'm about to give you. Okay, you pay me now? Now you own me, so I'll do something for you. It's called qui pro quote. That's that's politics.

But this is that's exactly I have.

No this is you know what I'm saying. And there's nothing for me to look at other than Okay, he's doing something first friend, he's helping out. He's gonna want something in return later on, and we're going to see what it is.

Then, how don't do crime?

Right about to see the same thing happened in New York?

Absolutely absolutely, qui for sure, that's why I know they doing what they do.

I don't do crime, right You don't you don't.

We hustling back with y'all. Clearly this is out of my tax racket conversation. I just because it's ridiculous.

They learned a lot.

How did they do?

I just want to I don't know how they went about doing that, Like, we're like.

How do how do you thirty six million?

How do you mastermind the heists like this? You know what I'm saying, Like, you use so much brain power to be fraudulent, how about you use the brain power to do something that actually makes you worthy of making that kind of money. I'll never understand it.

I feel you thirty six million in personal loans. Here's a crazy part.

They'll pardon them and then they'll still people sitting in jail for petty crimes.

Yeah, for Dina Dine bagg of Weed doing twenty years bro. It's sad. Yeah.

And their I guess their defense was that they were unfairly targeted because of their conservative beliefs. That's what they've been trying to say happened.

It was this is what happens.

They were waving the flag to all the conservatives to say, hey, come save us. Yes, it's no different than Jim or said, God rest is soul. He passed away. But remember when he was arrested for a DWI or duy and he said that he was targeted because he's a rich white billionaire. No, you targeted because you was driving crazy and you're freaking swerving and you was driving drunk. But that was his defense,

Yeah, I mean, I think you're sending the message that the things that the government says are illegal are not really illegal. Because the way that they defrauded the banks out of money that they took out these personal loans and then they took.

Out more loans to then pay the old ones, and they.

Use the personal loans to fund their like luxurious lifestyle, eight cars and travel and you know.

So the fact is that they just they were getting approved, where we have our regular average folks who just try to get approved for a home or a loan just to list and.

We can't get approved in your average like.

I six three sixty four a house.

I can't give you three sixty I gotta give it to my man's over there.

Right, that's literally what it is. I can't Josh.

Private jets.

I can't. I gotta give Chris forty million.

I gotta pay for gas on the jets. You're not going on vacation. He paying for the gas.

That's crazy, It's so funny. That's the American way. Yeah, it doesn't surprise me. It just not surprised me at all. It absolutely is.

But and I know because we talked about this on the last show about segue, right, so we're going to be very deliberate.

That's the end of opping.

Noah, So a young lady, whoever is the one I'm speak to, A young lady who said, you didn't know when you were sure?

We're doing this for you, all right, but this is actually welcome. Perfect though.

Yeah, about understanding business and how so many of the people around us don't understand business, so when you start to excel at business, they automatically look at you as if you're doing something that's not ethical.

And that's just not the case.

Well, I think to segue into the conversation I think that when we talk about money and ethics, this is a really great time to be talking about it, because it seems as though rich people are only doing what's gonna make rich people richer. They're not concerned with forwarding society. They're not concerned with keeping people educated or taken care of. They're not concerned with anything except making more money for the people who already have loads and loads of fucking money.

We think white millionaires because I can think of two that come to mind that built their shit from nothing Tyler Ferry is Rihanna billionaire satisfy? Right, Yeah, so a lot of people are building their billionaire status, whereas to your point, Triple, a lot of the billionaires that we know of that have the legacy passed down are typically white.

Well, I mean, just based on the history of this country, you're not going to find too many black billionaires that came from it, just because of the way our ancestors were brought here. The way you build equity and finances the fastest in this country is through land, and they purposely found ways to not give us land because they knew that that's what it was. With that being said, though, like Tristan, like Tripple said, there have been a few of us who've been able to accrue a huge amount

Bad about me.

Because it's weird behavior in my opinion to count somebody else's pockets, you know what I'm saying, Like, you have a clinic, for example, and you have one hundred kids

But my thing is who decides what's ethical? Right?

Like for example, when I first started my training business, the first thing everyone told me was it'll never work because no one will pay for training. And I said, well, you don't have to charge people six hundred dollars an hour to train.

You can create. It will never work. To vitill never work. It never works.

So when I started, I was charging one hundred and fifty dollars a month. And then when I grew to having four hundred kids, people started counting my pockets. It was like he charging people to train. Wait a minute, y'all first said it wouldn't work. Then because it worked, then it became unethical. And that's my question is is who decides what's ethical? Because I'm gonna be honest. Broke people can't tell me what's ethical when it comes to business because you don't understand business.

That may sound arrogant, but I'm sorry.

When I was doing Prototype, most of the money I got from Prototype went back to Prototype.

I even paid for kids to go to college. I paid for kids to have sneakers, I paid for kids.

To go like I did all of the children.

Kids say, we children, but it was broke.

People telling me that me charging people the same money I used to help them was unethical.

So I need to know who decides what.

But I think too, I think somebody pointed out a really good definition of capitalism for me for me on another podcast, they were saying that capitalism is determined by who owns the means of production. So just because you have a business where you are giving it a service and you're making money from it, that doesn't make you like a big bad capitalist. That's unethical a person who

So ultimately deval having a program like that and people parents paying into it, really the parents are just making an investment in their child. They're not his program wouldn't have been the unethical.

Party.

I hear you on that, But I also feel like even with the league owners, right, if you create an opportunity for young men and women to earn a large parts of money, right For example, the NBA people upset at NBA owners they make too much money. Yeah, but you also have all of these players and coaches, training staff who make a lot of money too. So they

Like that.

This is what bothers me about when people try to decide what's ethical or not. If you don't understand business and you make claims, for example, what's the young la any that.

Sold my op?

I was just about to say that as well as Brown right. They literally came to mind.

Don't understand how business works. When you start a business, the goal of the business is to scale the businesses. When you scale the business, that means that other people are doing what you can't do by yourself in a larger way so that you can make more money. Once you scale the business to size, you then want to sell it because you know, business has survived a full generation, every business has coming gone.

That's what it is. Most so the goal most some business, but most businesses.

The goal of any business, and I learned this in business school, but also speaking to a lot of wealthy people, is you start a business to sell it and then start another business.

What bothers me is that all of these people.

Online saying that the rodriguez Is and Tabitha Brown and they're unethical because they sold their idea to someone else or because they're trying and.

I'm like, y'all, y'all don't understand, you know what I'm saying. That's my issue with them.

So the biggest thing with the whole Mael stories that there's a contingent of people who believe that the product since being sold to Procter and Gamble, the quality of the product has changed, and they're people who are complaining that they're here, has been shedding, breaking, hair loss, all of those things. They've been using her product for years, and then all of a sudden, the minute P and G got it is like everything is wortered down and

Dot what Tab was saying, And people didn't even want to listen to the whole message right.

But then she also talked about how hard it was to get black brands into a Target to begin with. So she said, if in the event that you do still decide to go to Target, be mindful and purposeful about purchasing those black owned products, because once they start seeing a decline in those products being bought, then they're

But I think this is why it's important for people. If you're starting a business and if you know that you have the type of power that a person like Tabitha Brown does, it is important that you come up with your own set.

Of ethics and practices for your business so that when you.

Get a big deal like with a Target, that you can tell them what they're gonna do for you and not the other way. Brown absolutely, because the thing with Tabitha Brown, she always said that Target owns the line. It is their line, it has her name on it, and she is collaborating with them to curate products.

And she's using her likeness and her selection promote so they have.

And so because she has the power that she has, Target needs her. You know what I'm saying that right, if she had you know, the revenue, the capital to create her own line and set on her own website, she could do that. But Target needed her for the demographic they wanted to bring into the store because she had the people.

They have the product. She has the people. And so if if.

I think the only thing she could have done in that situation was to say, this is your dedication to DEI for the duration of my.

Contract.

And she may have taken the money and said great, amazing, because most of us would you know what I'm saying, most of us can't go into an office with our supervisor and Demanda Race, let alone go into a Target office with the CEO and demand DEI.

That's why I think it's unfair for us to put that on tab because she signs a deal and they say we'll give y'all for example, I don't know these details, so don't quote right say it's four years, we'll give you ten million dollars.

You're gonna be the face of this line. Cool as we do that. Plus, this was part of the DEI roll out.

You will sign that contract they decide that they're gonna change their mind two years in. Right, you can't then say, fine, I'm gonna take your products with my face off of your stores and I'm gonna do.

It direct to consumer. She can't. Legally, she can't.

If she tried to take those same progress to those products and do the same except products somewhere else, she's.

Gonna get sued. She probably has a not compete That's what I'm saying. So she can't.

So what she's doing is pretty much saying like, look, I'm kind of stuck here, and if y'all still want to support products, and I remember her saying that, she said, there are products here who are black owned, who have a director consumer, and if you're going to boycott, when that person puts a link up that says this is my director consumer, support it.

It's not enough to just boycott. You have to boycott and support.

And this goes back to understanding business that if a lot more people weren't emotional understood business, they would know how to help.

Right. For example, I've just read a doctor.

I've just read a story about the Montgomery bus boycott, right, think about this for a second. Do you know the Montgomery bus boycott crippled a lot of black bus businesses, And this is why black people wanted to ride on the same buses as white people. And we couldn't fucked up. So we had a point to prove. We wanted to prove that our money is more valuable than yours. So we boycotted until they let us ride on their buses,

That's why when we see other people who look like.

Us build businesses, we say that they're what unethical because we've never learned. You know what I'm saying, And that's who I think where we are as a community of people today.

The people, the.

Black people that have learned to make money, the other black people who don't know point at them. And say are they devil worshipers? They so they sold they're not ethical, and it's like, bro, like, that's not how this works. If you want to survive here on this planet, learn how to use capitalism for your people. That's what I ultimately want to do. That's what you want to do.

Everybody here talks about that. I haven't had a conversation with.

One person here that didn't say, yeah, because I want to do this, and then have another idea about people who aren't going to ever see this money. You talk about it all the time, about how you plan to do things for young black girls who are trying to get into entertainment and industry writing.

Y'all talk about it all the time.

So let's talk about now the responsibility that we feel these one percent or the wealthy have to society. What kind of responsibility do they have? So again, using Tyler Perry as an example, he is a great example because Tyler, with the money that he's made, is literally employing all of us, thousands of people, thousands and thousands of people.

He has a program at the facility where young men who are dealing with recidivism who can't find jobs can come there and work, learn how to garden, and learn how to mechanic.

Like he has programs no one ever talks about.

Let's talk about that.

Well, here's about it.

The internships that he has for kids that are coming out of college or in college, those programs. He's just even employing people on a crew or set. When I film my show, there's a crew of three hundred plus people that majority of them look like us block.

So what I hear is.

Instead of telling people what to do with their money, just realize what they do, number one. Just like he's actually employing people. And one of those trops is if you can't, like I'm canna, I can lead a horse to water but right, and or you can teach a man how to fish, or you give him man fish to teach him how to fish.

Right.

And I think what Tyler is doing, and what what the example is in that?

Uh?

That what the ethical point in that is give people jobs. Don't give people money, right.

Like, don't don't give your hood money, don't put up buildings in your hood or or rec centers only.

But it is like opportunity, give people opportunities to make their own money. Josh, you know who said that the power story for jay Z.

He did say that.

Jay said this two separate times. The first thing he said was what he got killed was he was just like, people keep asking me why I don't give money back to Marcie. They don't need money. They need to change your mentality, which is a fucking fact though, Like if you give those people who don't understand business money, what happens?

Same thing with reparations come back. They're coming back in two weeks broiling.

We need to change the we've been.

I would I would push back on that to say, is jay Z contributing to changing their mentality with what he gives to the hood, which is his music.

I would say no, I would disagree. We listened to jay z music, not really, So how say something like that? Did you say.

You cannot say that in front of Brooklyn.

Now you can't fly?

You can listen to them lyrics And he's pointing out he talked about Dumbo.

I forgot the lyrics exactly.

He said he could have bought a building in Dumbo for two million dollars. Yeah, years ago, in twice twenty something, and what is it now? What is it worth today? Like twenty million?

Said I could have bought it, Dumbo, I had every V twelve engine. He's literally telling young men and women like, yo, I did all of this bullshit and the thing I should have he's remember how to do something something?

Credit? Yeah, how did that? He really is teaching.

Also, he has bailed out thousands of people who are in jail for petty crimes, who have never seen would have never seen the light of day, and he bailed them out without even making it a public thing, because he also knows if I start telling everybody what I'm doing, they're gonna find a way to stop facts.

To stop you. But then also, you told the line between when you're in a position to help people, do we make it a public announcement to say, hey, y'all, I have the resources to help people, versus not helping people. And people say, well, you don't ever help nobody?

Could you could do that for a PR a PR stunt? But what's the point. What's the point is their ultimate goals to help people? Why are we talking about?

And exactly know how? And I helped regularly, and if we were to just be like, hey, we help this person today, we helped that person today, we this for that person, I know I need some help.

But that's a that's a really good point because people always say this too about Beyonce. And something I heard recently was like, during the LA fires, Beyonce's foundation be Good, did a bunch of giving back and they were people were saying, like in Pasadena, they were kind of the only foundation that was still there after a few months, still helping people get back on their feet.

And she doesn't, you know, she doesn't say anything.

She doesn't have to announce it, you know, she just does what she does, and she just gets backlash from us.

Same thing with Tyler Perry, I think too.

People always find something about Tyler Perry to write that. But when he was making stage plays and we was buying them on bootleg, everybody was laughing.

He and Hahn, he told me about it.

When he got to a certain level, then it was like, oh, Tyler Pierry's exploiting and Tyler peers doing this and that, And I mean, Tyler Pierry is telling one story. He's telling the story that he knows how to tell. He's not stopping anybody else from telling another story. He's not saying that this is the definitive story of black people, and people like watching his shit. I was always he's doing something other than he's employing people and giving people help money.

He's employing thousands of people. I just need one, just one thing You're we're going to do is shoot her shot.

But I want to say this too about Tyler Perran, not because he's my my boss, but he does tell the same story. But SODA's Ken your barrass Blackish, mixedish, grownish, SODA's maral Broca kill. I just happened to love all her stories because she tells love stories. But it's the same story, like love it girlfriends.

The same story, not just.

It's like some people feel you feel like they have a type cast because they're always playing the same kind of character in the same random story.

That's just what it is.

And if it ain't for you, it ain't for you.

We told for the last seven years, we told our love story over and over again, different ways, through book, through social media, through podcasts, because that was our story.

Some people may feel the same way, like or they keep telling the same story. I even I even her.

Saw one comment a guy said marriage is not a business, and Deval and Kadeen have made a business out of their marriage, and I said, this person doesn't understand.

I'm gonna argue and go back with them.

But that's the same person that when we first started and was broke telling our story, they loved it. I know this person because the person's been following us for a minute and they loved the fact that we was broke and telling this story.

And they're telling the real The minute we started ascending.

Then it was marriaging the business, which shows me most of the time people just don't want to say you'd be better than them.

You think it's crabbed environmentality.

I don't think you could look at anybody and say something that goes against their agenda without being crabbing a barrel, Like there's no there's nothing any like for you. For the example that you just gave with the with the dude that said when you were broke one thing and then when you start making money that completed a different thing. That has to be crabbing a baron. That has to be a sort of like an introspective of myself and it's where I am in relation to where these people.

Where these people are absolutely, and that is the comment section, because I what I can't Understandavalani for example, because I can only speak to us. I feel like we've been very consistent with who we are and who we've been. Naturally, of course, yes, we've grown, We've had avenues and opportunities to be able to expand, because the reason we started this whole social media thing anyway was to get the opportunities to be on camera as actors, and we finally

We have changed, and I agree with you, we have changed. And a lot of times people don't want to see other people change.

Absolutely not. They like the aspiration of things. But then when you get to that point when you truly are aspirational, then it becomes a faker.

It's like not ethical. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

I would switch the mindset because the crabs in a barrel thing, I understand it, but that it kind of assumes that only certain people are the crabs, you know what I'm saying. Whereas I think that we have a culture of exploitation that we've all been socialized to believe and somebody has to be exploited in order for something to be good, it can we can say the same thing for billionaires, people that hold their money because they don't want anybody else to be upperly mobile because there's

But this is the thing that bothers me.

I don't have that mindset I shared with everybody. But then you know what the feedback is, he only put his friends on.

We weren't friends before we started with And that's my point.

People would just say anything to make them feel like I wasn't able to do that because I didn't do anything that wasn't unethical, When the bottom line is is that you're looking for something to be unethical because you just haven't accomplished what that person has.

We went past that. I'm trying to understand, like that's and this is what happens.

This is what I'm saying, is why when we talk about being rich and ethical, who decides what's unethical? Because part of the unethical thing is like devalanceading only put their friends on. And I'm like, when did that become an issue? Like the fact that we only put our friends on is an issue?

Now you got way more friends than the three of us. Absolutely, absolutely, I would say that so that that statement has it's not your tight whatsoever.

And I'm not on yet, none of us, all of us seriously, and I'm not going to make it seem like we don't do well. We do well, but I have things in my life that I want to accomplish that I haven't accomplished. Yeah, we all out here working to do that. We're all out here helping as many people as we can, but we're not like broadcasting it because that becomes performative.

But when you are gaining, gaining, gaining and you're.

Not broadcasting how you're helping, people often say that you're unethical. Then when you do broadcast, they say you performative. That's why when you said you damned do you do if you damn if you don't, I've got to a point in my life. Now I don't get you, just fuck you, just damn, so I might as well go out and do it. Listen to how people create narratives. When did we do the Essence interviews? Josh arities Okay, it was April right when we did the Essence interview when I

No?

No clue right, K Show gets it out on I do that interview on Thursday.

It was the Wednesday, April thirtieth.

I remember we do an interview on a Wednesday. Thursday, we went to Upfront.

I went to Upfront upfronts on Thursday, and my mind, you the interview already happened.

Go up us on Thursday. Asked me, how does Kadeen feel about the release? I said, oh, the release is cool.

They want to wait and find They don't know when they'll be able to talk about it because we haven't been able to talk about it on our press tour. We find out that Saturday that they're going to drop the release on Monday. The release comes out Monday. Everybody's excited about ka Essence drops our interview on Tuesday. Comments on social media. From that interview on Twitter is Deval just wanted to on TikTok Dval just wanted to steal a shine from k because her show was.

An announced Right, He's dramatic.

I was being dramatic, and this is my thing. I'm not going to argue with these people. I'm not going to go back and forth. Sakari called and was pissed, Like, bro, as much as you push Kadeen in the forefront, for them to create this narrative that now you're trying to take the shine is annoying. But I'm like, Sakari, you can't fight that. Like people are going to create their own narrative about what they want and and they're gonna argue other people. Nah, I've been watching them for years.

Like are you gonna laugh at that? Because you know how false that is. Since we're in the gym in Brooklyn, Matt, to.

Be honest, my whole goal.

Since we've been in the gym, Matt will tell you, I was like, I'm going to make my wife this is my exact words, Bigger than Kim K, bigger than Beyonce.

Yeah, that That's always been my goal. I always felt share that talent.

So for people to make these assumptions and and create this narrative that I just wanted to steal her shine. It's proof that people have no clue what they're talking about, but will say it with such conviction that other people will follow them. And they do the same thing with ethics. Beyonce is a devil worshiper Tyler Perry and Oprah worship the devil. We've been to how many events with Tyler and Oprah with a bunch of people. I've seen these people do nothing but pray facts.

Who they're praying to.

Thank God, you know what, You're right. I don't know they praying to personally, but they pray openly to God. They thank God for everything. Every time we meet someone who's been at that level and they see that we're trying to get there, they always say keep God first. But then when you hear people talk about it, they're not ethical. Beyonce trying to get your daughters, I'm like, wow, like this is kind of crazy.

The fear, you know, it is exhausted.

It is.

Yeah.

My favorite two words right now be oh, well, you just don't care.

Oh, well you don't care. I don't either.

It's not worth it to care because it's people's personal like mindset to think that there has to be some type of exploitation in order for somebody to be doing well. A lot of times there is. We there is a culture of exploitation absolutely comes to wealth, and that is true. And so people are always looking for where's the exploitation And a lot of times it's just like crazy shit, and they're not looking for where is the like support, where are the ethics? You know what I'm saying. They're

Oh, where's the intersection between ethics and hard work?

Like some people just there is an intersection between ethics and hard work black people?

And I was that's what I was about to say.

What she said she said four black people, because this is my thing, right especially on this country. In this country, we've never had the opportunity for someone to give us something and say here, do this exploit these people to get more. We've always had to grind and work with people. So most the black people I know that if grind

Of these people who have gotten, they just try to do it. To Michael Jordan, he would his shoes. Michael Jordan's said Republicans were sneakers too.

Guys, do y'all know that Michael Jordan is responsible for how many people going to college on his funds? How many schools he opened that he never talked about. Lebron opened the Eye Promise School, so everyone thought that Lebron was the first, but freaking Jalen Rose had an Eye Promise School in Detroit seven years before Lebron opened his. But no one talks about these things, you know what I'm saying, And now here it is is on Michael

You know what I'm saying.

And because we had to work for everything. I think we're more inclined to bring people along with us that looks like us, Like I know several pockets. We're one example, but there's several pockets to people just within like the film industry, where it's just like yo, I'm going to band together with my people so that we can ascend together. Ryan, There's so many people who are doing it together because we see value in what each person brings to the common goal.

So, you know, and I think more people should have the mindset of being involved in a community, whether it's your group of friends, whether it's your family, whether it's your block. If you are doing something good, if you are experiencing success and you can share it with somebody, whether it's teaching them how to do the thing you do, giving them a little change, if you know they need some food, helping somebody take their kids to school one day.

You hear how you just spoke from your heart about everything you can do.

Say after this whole thing, you go blow up, right, you know what they're gonna say about trible Triple used the Valikadeen and she was fucking divided the whole time that.

I was going to say that, you.

Know, whole time.

That's what he put it on the offering table.

I'm gonna put on my rich nigga hat when that happens, I'm gonna exploit the audience, and I'm gonna write a book. God, I was sucking them both best selling best selling.

Actually oh well, oh well yeah, oh my god.

But before we wrap up, I would say, just piggyback off from Triples Triples comment about us building community. I want to shout out at t N and Ivy Walk Good l A. Every time I see a video from Walk Good l A that et t In or Ivy posts, it just makes me feel like, damn, if I was still in l A, that would be my tribe of people. You know, we were only in l A for a year and a half and we got robbed of our

Shout out to y'all. Though I know y'all personally and y'all don't talk about half that stuff, not even half a lot of stuff. Y'all do a lot for a lot of people.

Thank you for that.

I've been somewhere divine and I turned was like a good human bro Like people don't think this way.

It's just not natural.

And to see y'all do it and consistently do it and don't y'all don't need no praise for y'all just do it out of the kind of say your heart, thanks amazing, appreciate.

I appreciate that.

Man, appreciate Yeah. When you said you know, I thought you.

Now, I appreciate that. And I feel like the reason we've been blessed in abundance like this is because we have a responsibility.

Yeah, we all do.

Says too much is given, much is required, and I think that's the balance of what ethics is like when you have stuff that's, yeah, you have a really big responsibility.

It's true. I look at some of you know, family member's friends who are, like, you know, very active in the church, big believers in God, and it's just like damn, like you've just been struggling your whole life. But then we're here, So I feel like we are the answered prayers of a lot of people around us. And that's how I see it. That's what makes me want to continue to be giving and be generous. It's the only way I know how. You know, my grandmother, my dad's mom,

In a sense, that's a fact.

And also like richness isn't always I mean, Bob Marley said, this is riches isn't wealthy. It isn't just gold and silver, and it's not it's your ability, like we all talked about, to actually connect with another person. You can feel rich walking around not having nothing because anywhere you go you feel welcome.

You've done good in the world.

So since you've done good in the world, anywhere you go, they come, eat, come sit down, come chill to me.

That's how rich I want to be. If you have love and abundance, you're rich. Yes, yes, yes that a man.

As a lady we was at the track meet. She was like, if you just out here no security by yourself, I'm just like someone with my people. We all out here watching our kids. Like I want to be able to go places and give love and show love and people give it back. If I got to come here with my glasses on in security, that don't seem rich to me. You know what I'm saying, that seems very much constrained. You see when you see that, it's like you're in a bubble and you don't feel open.

That to me isn't richest.

Yeah, I think that the testament to your ethics, as I guess leaders of our little team, our little gang gang gang.

Is that we are not gang gangco charges, we are not gang.

Friends.

I think for me, the testament is that I've never asked y'all for anything because I've never had to. Whenever y'all move up, you have taken me with you, like whenever you grow, I grow. And that's that's That's been a huge blessing and it's helped me to grow in ways that I have done on my own. You know what I'm saying That your help people tell me all the time, I d M de Vow to ask about podcasting and he led me to you, like stuff like

Yeah, Hey, I need you.

If I got it.

If I got it is y'all because because as much as y'all appreciation.

Bro, that's what Tyler is for us.

Like when I be struggling with shit business wise or be like yo, he'll say it too, like I see you building. This is this voice, but I say you're building some other things. You know, you're good financially, And I'm like, what do you mean. He's like, this requires that, this requires this. Remember the whole tour thing.

Yeah, I was struggling.

He school does this is just a quick story. I was planning the not the last tour, the tour before that, the time, Yes, it was the time I did it. So we had a lot of expenses at the top of the year. So I called him and I was like, yeah, struggle,

And I was like, what you mean?

He was like, you close out your fiscal year with the tour expenses so you can get that back on your taxes, rather than keeping all of that money paying back to his tax taxes back and then paying for another tour.

And I was like, you know what I'm saying. And then he was just like, understand your film schedule. You know you get paid this time.

You should start paying for stuff at the same time you're getting paid till you can write that, So write that off beforehand. And I'm like, I didn't. I never had a billionaire to explain to me how to get through maneuver seven figure tax you know what I'm saying.

But he was able to give it to me. And I'm like, Bro, that's the same way y'all say. I am for you. That's how he is. And he's never asked me for anything.

And you can do it not fraudulently. Facts, so we can have to get a pardon from oh facts.

Yeah, you can avoid you can avoid paying high taxes a legal way.

There have an LLC registered as an escort.

When your escort, your tax will automatically go down from forty nine to to about thirty three percent legally legal.

Just to be clear, consult your local cps.

Are smart. Okay, uh huh.

Just because they rich don't mean they're smart.

Yep, that part.

Michelle Obama just said that in her podcast. Remember she said when she got to where she went to school, Harvard. She said, she got Harvard and looked.

Around and realized, like, wait a minute, everybody here does not long.

Yeah, And I was, like she said, when she got to the Oval office she sat down with some of them people, I was like, wait a minute, everybody here ain't either. I listened to that man. If there's anybody I listened to one podcasts, it's them too. And to be honest, I listened to Michelle Moore because I noticed that she's a lot more open. She never had to hold that office and doesn't have that responsibility, and quite frankly, she don't give a fuck no more.

The last time, people was getting.

On her about not going to that event, she said, and making it seemed like they was getting a divorce and she didn't love Barack no more, or they must be getting divorced.

She didn't show up. She was like, I didn't want to show up. It was the inauguration for a president. I didn't care for.

I don't have to got other things like family, things to do. And I was like, Yo, she really being honest. I know, but Rock is always going to have the quorum. He's the president. He has to and sometimes he'd be like, I don't know. She'll be like, he don't know. I didn't want to go.

I like that. I love that with us do a red carpets and stuff in the future, and it's like both of us being actors, it's like, I'm sure there's gonna be moments.

Last I want to support.

Always there.

I've seen Kadeen don't let the val breeze. She always be at these events. I'm like, because that's my fucking husband. To support my husband. Okay, Like what do you guys expect? All right, well, thanks for the love, y'all. I feel like we need a group hugg. Let's do it in the after show. Can we get a group hug? Everybody in? All right, y'all stick around. Were gonna take a quick break and get into this quick listener letter.

I sh out, we back, so let me handle these listening letters today. Wow.

Shout out to the Yell's crew, Josh and Tribble. How they're not gonna include Matt and Matt's last.

This is Ellis crew, So I guess they think Matt is Ellis.

Shout out to Ellis, cru Josh and Treble. That makes sense.

Adopted family members, see what you did.

That's what's up.

You are impacting our culture and generation and unprecedented in unprecedented ways.

Keep doing your thing. Now to what I need advice on.

I'm a forty plus year old and divorced mother of four to include a special needs child with autism and other medical issues. I started dating again a bound three years after my divorce and eventually began a relationship with a great guy. Here's my dilemma, or rather here's dilemma. He's a single man with three children by three different mothers.

That's interesting.

This is what I think. It seems like she likes projects. She picked up a project. He You know, one of her children has autism and it needs help.

He had a stroke. Seems like he needs help. It seems like she's one of those people that likes to fix people.

You know what I'm saying.

You picked up a man that has three children by three different baby mothers, but then also divorced the man and said that he's not there for your children. Why would you get with a man who's exuding the same behavior as the man you just left at this point? To be honest, he says, you want to keep it straight.

That's what I think.

It's hard for me to watch her because I know her intentions are good, but you're never going to be able to change him. To be what you want him to be, especially at forty something, so go find someone who is what you want rather than trying to make them be that.

Yeah, it's interesting because as I'm sitting here thinking, I'm like, it's so layered. But yeah, the man who he's showing himself to be by way of not caring for his children in the way that he should, I think outweighs the things that he's doing for your children, if that makes sense, Because him being there to show up for your children in that capacity that he can't for his own children leads me to believe that maybe it's performative because he likes you, and maybe he's trying to get

That's really what it is.

The only niggas that cry about not spending time with their kids or dead beats, because while you sitting here crying, you can be yeah or something on a plane. A man who wants to be with his kids don't nothing to stop him from being with this kid, period.

Except for the woman.

Sometimes, I'm not going to say yeah, I'm not going to sit here and say that because I know three people personally who have cried about not seeing their kids, and every time they tried, the moms have done everything in their power, including lying to their boss, calling the cops, filling fake police reports. So I'm not gonna always put it on on the men. But when you have three women and there's three at some point, now, you know what I'm saying, it ain't just it ain't just them

You know what I'm saying, so different baby mothers that that's that's uphill battle.

You're having those three different personalities. And it's like with his existing girlfriend, my podcastang my bad.

I know she was like she was like, that's a point. I think he's coming uphill battle.

But I think his bigger issue is that he's knocking down solid advice from his girlfriend, like she's she's she wants to send things regularly, and he's like, nah, I've tried that. That doesn't work, Like where does that put you do?

That's why I feel like he's showing you exactly who he is. Yeah, for sure.

And Kay made a good point. He's being performative for her. He was performative for each one of those baby mothers early. That's how he got them to be their baby mother and then once he became himself, it was like, I'm out of here.

So I agree with you. I think that I think he is the issue, to be honest, and she had a full plate.

Child.

Yeah, there's just a lot of individuals, and that makes it's to you your four children, him it's three baby mothers and then there's three children and then his mom Like, yeah, that's just a child.

Company autism and special needs. And he just had a stroke. So he doesn't work full time, right, that requires a lot. That's a lot.

That is a crazy Brady bunch. But this is what I don't understand. I'm not trying to knock nobody, right, you don't see your kids enough, got a stroke, you can't work, and what you're doing with your time is trying to get with another woman. That seems to me like his priorities are off, Like I feel like he should be focusing on his health and creating a big better relationship with the kids and the mothers that he

That's what I would do.

It sounds too like he doesn't know the value of commit because he's like, oh, I tried doing that and it didn't work. And I heard you telling Jackson today, like you know, you think Rome was built in a day, Like you got to keep sprinting if you want to get better.

You're not gonna sit on day one.

And so you try to send a gift a time or two and your kids are already sawty that.

You're not there.

You're gonna have to keep trying because you're the father's situation. You got to commit to that and three baby mamas like yeah, you know, yeah, it sounds like, yeah, he's not really putting in the effort that it takes your bill.

To find a way, Yeah, to find a way to connect individually with all three children.

Yeah.

Yeah, all right, good luck to you out there. Sis continue to write in y'all for our listener. Let us we love to hear from you. Email us at the Ellis Advice at gmail dot com.

That's t h E E L l I s A d V I C E at gmail. Dugger.

All right, now I'm moment the truth time. What were we talking about today? I feel like we were talking about a bunch of stuff. Oh we're talking about rich at the cold money, fics, business, all the things. Who wants to start with the moment of truth? Anyone got one.

One you can help help the next person in terms of richesness, tell us what we spoke about. That's not always monetary. So you can help one. Help somebody learn business, learn, help them in need whatever they need. Help them with the ethics part too. If you think somebody's going down the wrong path, talk to them, have a conversation.

Hmm, I like that.

Uh, one person having something doesn't mean that you can't have it too. Focus on building community so that everybody you touch can be as successful as you are.

I like that, I got one.

Don't let the amount of money you make define your ethics like that, because a lot of people are willing to change their ethics depending upon how much money is to be made. You can't let the amount of money change if you know it's not ethical, don't do it.

Damn you.

I was going to say, if you know that the goodness is in your heart and you are doing the work to build whatever wealth looks like to you, Because there's also some people aren't comfortable with just being able to make a certain amount of money knowing that their bills are paid, where some people aspire to don't be giving me the the VALANCOPI here giving me the eyes. I'm trying to give my thought. But some people's idea

Be killing me with the light read because she'd be going to you know, because people in the business.

I was ultimately trying to get to mind the business that pays you, because then you realize if you do that, you might be more successful instead of minding everybody else's business.

Maybe it's just what it is.

Who wants to round it out? Or is it? I think jobs you're the only one left. Bring us home.

Chill, chill, right.

I did google all right, I want to know exactly what Bob said, and I was gonna quote the he said, possessions make you rich. I don't have that type of written richness. My richness is life forever. Yes, right, So yeah, that's it. Shout out to the period.

What that means is that.

True wealth does not come from possessions and materialistic You gotta say that, Jamaican accent.

I can't. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. You're not gonna do that, Jamaica.

True.

Well, you remember how he possessions make it richosis make it rich?

Oh ja bless no man, need yes, do possessions make you Possessions because It's like possessions, those don't make you rich.

What is this? Forget it? Possessions don't make you rich.

Something like you got a cousin that crazy my cousin like a real Okay, what's going on?

Man?

What's what's up my nigga?

That's what's going on?

Man?

And he's Jamaica. He said, what what's up? My nigga? What's up? Is the most What's what's going on?

Man?

That's what I get when I go to Jamaica. What's up? Zach? Wh what's up?

Yo?

I love Geneva. Pick up your steps up.

The world. That's so funny. Geneva say this before we get to the out.

Two weeks ago he was having sex. I said, yo, homie, Zach, and I'm calling you Geneva, and we had sex.

Zach is giving across. I loved it. At least it's on the same network. I love it.

Period.

The way I'm gonna do for it, I'm not gonna let me pull it out of holding, all right, y'all. Be sure to find us on Patreon to see the after show and of course more exclusive Ellis ever After video content and Ellis Family content. You can find us on social media at Ellis ever After. I'm Kadeen, I.

Am I am Deval, I'm Underscore Matt dot Ellis.

And you can double click on my Flix at Josha Duane. I'm at Trips the Cool t ri ibb Z. That's cool on everything. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to wait wait you subscribe on three Baby one two three Day.

Gott Ellis ever After is an iHeartMedia podcast. It's hosted by Kadeen and Deval Ellis. It's produced by Triple Video, production by Joshua Duane and Matthew Ellis, video editing by Lashawan Rothe.

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