Loyalty, Loyalty, Loyalty

important thing to mention, we're married. We are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of a millennium married couple. Dead ass is the term that we say every day. So when we say dead asks, we're actually saying facts, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Were about to take Phillow Talk to a whole new level. Dead ass starts right now. So what story time, baby story.

I'm gonna take y'all back to a very funny story that's not funny to some people here, some people here. Let me it's a traumatic story. Let me think about what this one could be. The year this was sera what a circle? Two thousand and nine? The way back? All right? Okay? Um, Codeine was in her makeup groove. This was she was freelance makeup artists on top of working at Montague at the time. Or was no, it was you started at kings Plaza, started work Alaza Cosmetic.

Shout out to Max. So we had just moved back from Canton, Michigan. Four bedroom home, full finished basements, uh, living room, dining room, four years space, driveway to everything. Codeine decided that she wanted to move back to Brooklyn to be next to her family because she's really big on family. She don't want to live in in Michigan. Um, I just got released. I said, let's live in Michigan because we have a home here, I have a name

here in Michigan. I was working at the University of Michigan as a learning coordinator, so I was making some money. Was plans on building a business. Becase like, let's moved back. So I was like, fine, we can move back. If this is what you want, baby, my fiance wife to be, this is what we're gonna do. So we moved back and my grandmother's apartment was available. When I first got into the NFL, my grandmother had moved to Virginia and she had an apartment that was rent controlled. She had

put me on the least. I took over the payments. The payments were real low. I think at the time it was nine dollars for that apartment. You'll all seeing us growing our three bedrooms, a four a living room, dining room, two bathrooms, a huge apartment. Every room in the apartment had a window, which is something you don't find in apartments nowadays. Was a corner apartment. So we moved back. But what's the one key thing? So Bara was mad. My grandparents had moved to Virginia. They hadn't

lived in it for years. Uh, two of my friends had moved into the apartment in the interim while I wasn't there, and they did not keep the apartment up. The department wasn't renovated. Um, it was just bad. It was. It was all bad. So Kay was just like, how come we can't just find a place in Canarsi where we grew up with the houses. I said, no, listen to me, all right, listen, this this place is going to go through gentrification. The Barclay Center is gonna come

here in about three or four years. Remember this, two thousand and three or four years they just broke ground in the Barclay Center. Everything's gonna change. These apartments are gonna turn to condos, and when they do, we're gonna get an inside track and we can make some money off of them. So she was like, whatever, devout. But at the time Crown Heights where we lived with Crown, it was Crown Heights. Crown Heights. The street we lived

around the corner from lcol Name. The street was murderous role when we first he didn't tell me that there were two murders on the very street that we delivered. The adjacent street two murders right before we moved there. I'm not gonna tell her this because I had a plan and exactly and when my mom was like, you're moving my dogter weird? Where when When when she put the agent from the w where I knew she was concerned, I said, I got We're good. I got this. So

we moved back to Crown Heights. Codeine has to wake up in the morning and she has to go do a wedding. Right, she has to do a wedding. And Codeine and I had always had this conversation about her parking and leaving the lights on while she's looking for parking and just having her door open after she parks, because at our apartment building there were apartments everywhere, so people watch you as you park. The first night we stayed in the apartment, Codeine goes down to get her

and I told this story before. She goes down to get her person the morning, right, and when she gets there, her purse is gone. They broke into the window stole the person from there. I told her, like, yo, you can't leave stuff on the front of the the car, the front car seat it was, it was the floor of She claims it was the floor. I think it was. So I'm telling you that to give you context. This night in particular, Codeine and I get home and we

both had cars. We're circling for parking. Right Conein finds a parking spot right on the edge of the corner and I'm still circling. When I circle, Codeine is taking her makeup bag and putting it inside the car. She got two doors open, the trunk open, and the dome light is on, and she's taking this big bag from the trunk and putting it in the car. And I'm driving by and I'm like, hey, turn the light off, closed the door closed on. She's like, what what why?

And I'm like, you can't have people watching you put stuff in your car and then go upstairs. She's like, don't worry about the valve we had parked. We got there like one o'clock, one o'clock and she had to be up at five. I'm only gonna be there for a little bit. So now the morning comes, she leaves. I'm laying there in the bed. My phone rings every time she goes downstairs, and my phone rings two minutes after she leaves. I know there's a problem. She gets downstairs,

my phone rings and says, the balls on it. I say, what's up, baby? This is all I hear? Why? What about why? I said, what happened? Baby? Okay, they stole all my makeup. I said all of it. She said, all my fucking makeup, every piece, every brush, every foundation is gone. The whole bank is gone. I got a whole wedding. What I supposed to do? Why day? I had a wedding of thirteen women to do. I had to be in Long Island by six thirty am. So

I um, I remained calm. I said, um, can you go buy makeup and she was like, I gotta go buy let's make up right now, not mentioned that thousands of dollars where to make up that point in fact, So she goes, just I'll figure it out, hangs up the phone. Right I'm like, damn, this is this is all bad right now? She ends up calling one of her fellow makeup artists, getting her brushes, getting getting all the makeup done. I was able to make the money

and come back home. She came back home, sat on my lap and just sobbed a little bit and was just like, I can't believe this is where we are. But in that moment she came back home and she looked at me, I realized like how loyal she was because she could have went and stayed with her parents, she could have went into so many other things, but

she decided to stick it out with me. And probably the worst time of our lives collectively that we had been in at this point, because we met in college scholarships, NFL money house to now having to figure stuff out. And it was at that moment that I realized, you know what, sirls loyal got a rider, bro ride it die there. You d try if you d a t I need to ride and get some street smarts. Because about that, I was like, what are you doing? It's

that private house life facts, baby, this karaoke thing. To me, Baby, I said, I'm geek and I'm fined. Hey, all I want to not is just getting had girl. You look so good to die for for real though? Whoa it's a secret society? Oh you ask his truss? Oh my god. Loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty. How fit was that? Actually? Perfect? Perfect? And it was accurate the lyrics and die for it too. Let me

so talk to me your thought process. First of all, I trusted you and whatever vision you had set for us right away, and I always have from from early I want to say, even from our very first conversation

that we had um. But we when we met up at Hashtra that one day when I had the event and we sat sat on your bed and I eat that here when we were talking, I always really just was like, man, this within minutes of meeting you, I knew that this was a dude with charisma, he knew what he wanted, he had somewhat of a plan to

get there. So I always believed and knew that. Um. So in this this particular story you know, um, that movie back that we did, like you said, from the NFL having a place in Michigan to then having to start over again, it was never a thought in my mind to bail on you because things then kind of took a turn for the worst, and I wouldn't even necessarily say the worst, but just coming from where we were in that place to then having to be back

in Brooklyn, the recession hit, all of the investment moneys that we had put aside, everything got lost, so there was the rebuilding that had to happen. Um. But I want to say that I always fully believed in you. I fully believed in our vision that we had for ourselves together, um, collectively and also as individuals. So it was really easy for me despite those moments of you know, what I felt like was turmoil at the time, I also felt like at the very end, at least we

had each other. But it was never a thought for me to be like, I got to just find a way to do this on my own. I'm like, if we're gonna struggle, we might as well struggle together, you know, So I'm going to disclose something to you that in front of everybody that a lot of people asked me at the time time, Right, if I own a house in Michigan, I have a name in Michigan, I had a job in Michigan. You had a job in Michigan.

Why would I allow your wanting to move back to Brooklyn to uproot us and come back to Brooklyn and start all over when I already had something in Michigan. And my thought process was, I believed in us. I believed in you because at this point it wasn't just about me carrying everything, because I had carried everything for those three years. Now I knew I was going to have to rely on you while I rebuilt. And the same way you trusted me and and you believed in me,

I believed in you. So for me, it wasn't just about Okay, I gotta leave my job here in Michigan and leave my home here in Michigan. Because the our mortgage in Michigan at the time was four hundred dollars and we were leaving this big home and a job where I was making more than enough money to cover the mortgage, and you were making money because you were working as Uh, you're working at math back of the more later Michigan. So I felt like we could we

could build something in Michigan faster than Brooklyn. But I wanted you to be happy. I never saw Michigan as home either. I felt like I didn't even we were at a transition point in our life, and I felt like, all right, if we're going to build a home base, we're looking to be married too and possibly have a child soon. I just wanted to go where the support was, and the support was back in Brooklyn, you know. But I know you were kind of torn about that at

the time, like should we go or should we not? UM? I was torn because, Um, financially, it would have made so much more sense for us to stay in Michigan because after we left Michigan, I had to rent out the home, and every month the home wasn't rented out, I would have had to pay. You know what I'm saying that we were struggling financially because I had that home. I had the home in uh Tennessee. You know, I had all of the car notes and everything. So it

was a big risk. But like you said, you trusted me, and I trusted you and not for nothing. That wasn't the very first time you ever showed loyalty to me. I remember when um, I separated my shoulder and you and I and this this is not really just loyalty, but I separated my shoulder in college and I had to sleep sitting up to prepare for next week. And you came out and you sat up with me and slept up with me. And this was before the whole NFL.

Because a lot of people think, oh, it's easy for Codeine to say I'm loyal to the vow because he was going to the NFL. I was a hundred and fifty six pound wide receiver at Hofstra University. I was not a six five, two hundred and thirty pound receiver at Alabama with a first round grade. So when someone does that for you, it's not like, oh, I can see the first round glitz and glamour. I had never even talked to you about being the NFL great. It was just about I can get to a practice squad.

Maybe I feel like the beginning when we met, you never spoke about the NFL. That was never like it was a conversation. It kind of just happened. I think once your junior year hit. Maybe it was like, okay, maybe I could. It was an opportunity. This didn't get a little bit nestic to start things off. But it wasn't And it wasn't even like I was gonna play five years and make millions. It was I can make a practice buy the time. You can only be in

a practice quad two years. So I was like, if I could make a hundred thousand dollars in four months and then repeat it a hundred dollollars in four months, then we'll be good. But um, yeah, Like to me, loyalty is earned over time. Right. So many people talk about loyalty, and when they talk about loyalty, they create a list of things you have to follow of mind in order to be considered loyal. And I'm the older

I get. I realized, like, you cannot have real loyalty without hardships, because loyalty has to be tried and tested, you know what I'm saying. When you're going through the words, even even through infidelity or cheating, you can make a poor decision, or someone can make a poor decision, right, and that doesn't always show a disloyal act. A poor decision isn't a disloyal act. Disloyal acts are continuously making selfish decisions because you have something to gain and you're

not thinking about your partner. You make a poor choice. Because I don ever believe in mistakes. It's not mistakes unless someone trips and falls on your dick. That's that's that's the only thing that's a mistake. Trip and fold on the dick. That's that's the only way it could be a mistake. Right that that's an accident. You sleep, somebody accidentally fell on my dick, and not to do about that. Sorry, big. But if you make a poor decision, it's how you respond to making that poor decision, which

shows loyalty. Right, So you make a poor decision, you realize, damn I did that. I was selfish. Okay, it hurt my partner? Now did it hurt my partner? Loyalty can because you asked that loyalty can be regained. It's like, can I show my partner that I'm loyal by doing anything or everything possible to get her trust back or his trust back? You understand what I'm saying. It's also to being receptive to the change that you see and not living in that moment. Because it has to happen

a lot of times if the trust is broken. For example, because we have a list of things here that loyal is trust, open communication, partnership, authenticity, UM, lasting companionship, commitment to the relationship, patients UM strong conflict resolution skills, mutual support, having each other's backs. Those are so many things that can go under the loyalty umbrella. But sometimes it's easier

said than done. If the loyalty is broken, then you kind of have to convince yourself is this something that I want to work towards? Re kind of extending that olive branch to the person and saying, is this loyalty something that we want to I can regain gain? And I think that the only thing I'll say about this list is says loyalty is all of these things. You would have to add the caveat all of these things through hardships and adversity. It's easy to be loyal to

someone when everything is going good. Yeah, and what environment? Yeah, of course everything. It's easy to be loyal to this purpose, this person because you get everything you want from that person. But what about when that person isn't doing every thing that you want them to? Do Are you still going to be loyal to this person? Because loyalty, You know,

people say loyalty is not conditional, You just loyalty. Why why would you be blindly loyal to somebody without building the trust with someone and through those trusts that have to be hardships. Because if everything is perfect and the first time something doesn't go your way and you bail, then you're not loyal. You understand what I'm saying. It can't just be I'm gonna be loyal as long as you follow all my rules, because that's slavery, you know

what I'm saying. And and and sometimes people and I saw a meme the other day saying that people people these days want emotional slaves. You know, they want people to just adhere to all of their needs and wants. And I I need kind of society that we're in now. Absolutely, we've already spoken about how no relationship can survive with the memia mentality. I'm glad you brought that up. You want to know why loyalty can only be gained through service?

You know, see what I'm saying, How do I how do I know if this person will be loyal to me through service? Will they will they service me? How do I? How did this person know if I'll be loyal to them through service? Right, it's all about services. I have to do acts to show you that I'm a loyal person. So those acts are almost like tests in a sense, going back to saying that being tested for loyalty, to test to see how someone will respond within a particular situation, or you think it's more just

see that's a good question. I wouldn't say tests because you shouldn't be with whether it's your friends, your partners, your bins. You don't want to walking out time and see how loyal they are. No, it's it's service. Does this person need anything? Well, when I say tests, I'm more so mean like a situation may occur, okay, and then how they respond to that in that moment then

gives you a kind of like that that marker. Yes. Absolutely, for for example, we've had tests that claim in our relationship in different ways, different forms, not just I think also two people think of loyalty and they think of like fidelity all the time. That's the first thing that comes to mind, But there are also other ways to not be loyal to someone. Absolutely, the number one reason why people lose their partner and they think it's infidelity,

it's not. It's financial reasons. People become uncomfortable in their lifestyle because something changed and they can't live the way they want to live, and they begun. They begin to become disloyal. For example, use us right, I've started to build something for us in Michigan at the time because I was working. You wasn't working right, We had no infidelity issues at that time. You decide I want to go back to Brooklyn and and live with my family

because you're not in the NFL anymore. And now I have to work, and now I have to work in them all. I'm leaving. That had nothing to do with infidelity. What happens. It became a little bit uncomfor a change happened, and now you can make a decision where you know what the run is over, you know the valiin making this money no more. I'm gonna go do something else or go find somebody else. That was a possibility. You could have done that. You know what saying was bad.

I'm talking the past tense. Now you're still you still ain't put on my good wig for no reason. Yes, the good the good cis got the good wig on right now, right, but the lace, so I'll put the hat on. I was just pretending like this was a merch drop. But one day, one day, you gotta just take the hat off so they can see what the lace look like. So y'all can see what I see. The whole meme at that point. And you're about to have me do that because we were a bunch of

memes right now. But you're not gonna catch me with a bad lace front. Okay, But I could have. Yeah, you could have. And people always think that sometimes when people split up, it it's always because of sexual reasons. Sometimes it's not. And I mean I could I could have done the same thing. I could have said, you know, you want to go back to your family, will go. I'm staying, you know. But we chose each other, and we chose each other through the hardships, and we continue

to choose each other every day. Love is a choice that you make every morning when you wake up. Yes, right again. Love is a choice that you make every morning when you make up. Do you know why that's important? Because loyalty to me shouldn't be an obligation. It doesn't matter to me if you're like, loyalty can can be performative, right, Right, so you know you can gain something by being with me. Right, So I'm in the NFL, I'm making money. It's like, let me show my loyalty to the value because I

can get the lifestyle that I want. Right. That's performative. That's performative. Loyalty can be performative. Exhausting, exhausting to keep up with fake it is fake. Yeah, a lot of people have fake loyalty. A lot of people. The reason why I like the term you brought up about choices because for me as a person, I like the fact that you make a choice to be loyal as opposed to being obligated to being loyal. You understand what I'm saying.

It's the same thing for business partners or friendships. It's like when you get to a point in your life where you can provide stuff for people, there's a lot of people that will show loyalty because they know they can gain by being a friend. I want someone, especially in my relationship, who chooses to be loyal and this

is important to me. When we talk about um the patriarchy and we talk about marriage, there was there was a discussion going on about the game and him saying that he doesn't care how much money his girl makes. He's paying all the bills because that's what he feels like he wants to do, and I kind of agree with him. I agree with him because that's how I feel. I want to express, you know, my ability as a man to take care of you. I want to pay all the bills and do all this other stuff. I

get it. He never said he didn't want his girl to work, and I want to point I'm going to bring that up because you work, and you make a lot of money, more than enough money to take care of yourself and all of the kids and live the lifestyle you want to live. Without me. That makes me feel good because I know that you're making a choice to be here and not obligated. You understand what I'm saying. Nobody hates, nobody likes a relationship, but you feel obligated

to be in because then it becomes a choice. And that can even just be with a friendship, you know what I mean, Like you don't want somebody that you feel like, well, I think the reason why even just in a friendship, for example, when it comes to loyalty and maintaining friendships. My circle is so small because I have those friends that understand that we're all, for the

most part, working moms. Some of us have spouses, and we can talk today and not talk for six months, and pick up right where we left off in six months and be like, hey, girl, how's everything going. No

hard feelings, because we understand what it is. Um also to having friends that in our darker times or in the times where we didn't have as much going on, we had a handful of people that we could rely on, a handful of people that would check on us, and full of people that would just pop up and say, yoh,

what's up. I'm coming to check y'all. Yes, And then here we are fast forward years later, and then you're starting to get phone calls from people that you haven't heard from in a decade, a decade, because it's been about a decade for the NFL. Then it's two thousand and ten when I officially retired from the NFL. My last game I played was in two thousand and eight

until now. Two thousand nineteen is when we made the move to California, and now we got the quiz almost a decade or a little bit over because we were in the apartment for about ten years, Jackson, that's the market.

So then it's like, now we're here at this point in our lives and it's just like, man, I haven't heard from such and such a years, but people are popping up at the door or asking to and I'm just like, you know, those are things that when you think of loyalty in general, it's not you can't be loyal when it's convenient for you to be loyal, because trust me, people take notes, you know. I like that when loyalty is not convenient, it's not convenient at all.

You have to be loyal during the hardest times. And that's how you can prove if someone is loyal because you know, also that's the first word that's thrown out if someone is to step out, achieve right, or they're disloyal. Person made a poor decision, you know, whether it's a man or a woman, they made a poor decision. So that does that mean that you accept if someone constantly step out, No, because now that person is making a repetitive choice to be selfish, that person is not loyal.

If a person making poor decision, but then realize their poor decision and it's not working to build that trust back. That person can now work to build loyalty back. You understand what I'm saying because because it's not sports right, people, the greatest basketball player of all time is Michael Jordan's and they say all the time the reason why he's the greatest is because he's six and no in the finals. Right, relationships don't work like that relationship. You're not gonna be perfect.

Everybody is not going to be perfect. And then I'm talking about poor decisions even with money, because you hear a lot of people have gambling issues, poor spending habbits, and when they make a poor decision they're partner. The first thing to throw out is that you're not loyal because you didn't do what I wanted you to do. You can't do that to somebody. With all people, and we all have to make choices every single day, and you have to watch your partner and say are they

going to continue to choose themselves? Because loyalty also doesn't mean loyalty to somebody else like a third party. You and I are in this together. Are you loyal to me? Are you loyal to somebody? Else, or are you loyal to yourself? Because loyalty to yourself when you're in a relationship is that selfish? You know what I'm saying. You can't always just choose yourself, especially in your when you're

in a relationship. So when you're looking for someone who is loyal or trying to see if your partner is loyal, see if they're constantly choosing you, you know what I'm saying, Because if we're life partners, we got to choose each other. Like you know, I laughed because you mentioned sports for a second, and I laughed about the story you tell on the Breakfast Club shout out to the Breakfast Club

with me and Pam Oliver. Oh yeah, you know. And I thought it was a very loyal move, okay, because I've seen home girling on the on the field and I was like, listen, my boob is on the field that you told him he would never be on this. I just want to let you know he's right there, he's right there, he's right there. Right. That was a loyal move. I feel like I had your back, you know, I appreciate I hope you appreciate it. But but we've had we've had those moment moments with each other forever.

I mean even because loyal just having your something like having your booze back, you know what I mean. Like sometimes I's as simple as that two thou seven, I hadn't made them every year. I had to go make the team. You moved to Michigan in two thousand seven to stay with me, not knowing whether or not I was going to be on the team or not. Yeah, I really had no idea at that point what was happening.

But there were about to believe in you too, which I think that also can be one of the cornerstones for loyalty is having a really deep belief in your spouse or your partner and really feeling like, man, I'm willing to invest in this person, invest time, invest energy, and invest the love. I'm willing to do all that because I know that this person is worth it, you know what I mean. So I got I got a big loyalty because we had to go through this with loyalty,

picking your partner over your family. Oh that's a big one because at certain times had to Uh, I had to choose. You had to choose. I had to because your mother was not my mom. Was not said. My mother told me point blank pretty much like when I went to college and stuff like that, because I said, I grew up in a very strict West Indian household. My parents had me under their thumb for mad long. So when I was going to college, I was like,

it's lit like about to go. I'm about to be going to parties, I'm about to be haven't doing all the things right. Um. And then I went to college and immediately found it out, and my mother pretty much, you're welcome. I do think the Good Lord every day. Um. So my mom pretty much had told me when she knew that I met Devil, and I was kind of like, you know, told me like I met this guy and blah blah blah, zero interests, like y'all maybe had zero interests.

She did not want to hear about anybody that I meant. No. Mom, Well, so I'm not gonna say she has zero interests. She hated me. No, I'm just saying Initially, when I told her that I meant somebody, she just she like glazed over it. She's just like, so, yeah, what did you say about your you know, mass communication one on one class? Like so she just completely deflected like the Queen of deflecting, right, So she deflected. So Devel was pretty much not trying

to hear it. At that point, my mother said to me, Kating, you can walk through the door with Jesus Christ. It does not matter to me, not this in your life. A girl of your caliber needs to be in school and you need to be focusing in your books and your grades and what is it that you want to do? I want wouldn't. In turn, she was right like she did have her her she did have a point. Mimi had a point um, but also she didn't have a point.

She was right. She was right in the same way Pam Oliver was right, yes about saying I was too small. It was small exactly like if you're looking at what's in front of you, that would probably be the box that I checked too, because when I met him, you know, he was like a hundred and what with a big gas head. My cousin remember saying that looked like a lollipy was not that big bro for your body. It was though he didn't know what you know, what's that

these muscles? I remember my cousin meeting him. She was like, man, it looks like a lollipop shout out to Sophia. Um. But yeah, so my mom was just not trying to hear it in that moment. So there came a point I wanted to say, maybe two years into our relationship that div was just not having it no more. If I was like, I'm not gonna allow your mother to just like ignore me or disrespect me or anything, so or he felt disrespected. So at that point, I was just like, I'm gonna have to go with my man.

I stopped going like a whole year and a half come into the house. So then I was conflicted because in that moment, I had to decide was I going to go and see my family and then spend time away from him, and then do I cut my family time short to then go chill with him? And I kind of felt caught in the middle at that point too, but I just had to go with my heart at that time. So I was like, all right, we're just

gonna have to split this time. I had to respect the way you felt in that moment too, because at first I was just like, you know, you you don't understand my mom. That's just how she is. And if I was not trying to hear that, and I couldn't expect him to understand or to tolerate it. So yeah, I my loyalty was definitely tested at that moment, like which way was I going to go? But also that

tested my loyalty if I was willing to deal with it. Absolutely, you could be like, Yo, this girl's mother is diff I wanted. Is just what I want to deal with for the rest of my life potentially? Yeah, Yeah, So that was That was an interesting time. And like a lot of moments, like loyalty test, testing someone's loyalty comes in so many different facets in a relationship. Um, it's

important to feel chosen. Makes you feel good, you know, as a person when you know that person which he was rocking with you, Yeah, because you chose You chose me when I was skinny, you chose me when I was broke, you chose me when I was making poor selfish decisions. And it feels good to be chosen, and it makes you feel like I have to do the

same things, you know what I'm saying. It's motivating to be like and that's why a lot of people don't They don't understand, like why some men don't understand, like, why would you go so hard for a woman? You know what I'm saying, Why does it? Because you know, I make these posts about how much I adore you and how proud I am of the things you've been able to accomplish, and over time, you have chosen me so many times. I want to celebrate the fact that

I feel chosen. You understand what I'm saying. Even even when they came to to choosing me for children right after having Jackson and the issue, yeah, having the decision to have Jackson and everything, the traumas you went through with having Jackson, have to have surgery and almost have a blood transfusion, to then choose to say, you know what, let's go again and have another child because you believe in this partnership, in the legacy. It's like, then, once again,

she chose something that I wanted and needed. You know, I just realized when you said that in this moment, and this is a little bit off topic, but I just realized that's probably why in the moment I didn't

realize I was traumatized from my experience with Jackson. I always wonder why we took that long break in between that we took five years, five years, and I think I might have just been like dealing with some trauma from that moment that I was almost you think you think there was no thinking for me at that point. I really just just hit me like that's probably why I waited so long in between in the hospital, right, um,

And we've told this story on the podcast. In the hospital when I blacked out, had no when I remember coming to and I'm saying that Canino be out of surgery, you know, in about an hour, I remember saying to myself, I hope my son is okay. You know what I'm saying. If my wife makes it out of this, I'm never having children again. Like that was my that was my like my mindset, my my I was processing that if we get escaped this unscathed, I'm good with one child.

I'm good with being here. So for me, every time I thought of having children again, it was like, do we go through this process possibly having this process again and even once again trying to be loyal choosing you. I wanted more kids, but I'm not going to choose to put your life at risk just because i want more kids, you know what I'm saying. And that once again, its loyalty to your partner you're seeing in some relationships, or you don't want more kids. I'm out because I

want more kids. It's like, wow, that was a very conditional move, you know what I'm saying, not being able to communicate and just make up to make a decision for both of I'm out if you don't want to have more kids. Like, there's so many decisions that happened within the course of a relationship that requires someone to be selfless that I think people don't realize, especially single people.

You know, if if you're watching social media or listen to what people say when single people have an opinion about how married people move, that be the best for me, That would be the best for me. I love y'all, my single folks with y'all be having a whole lot to say sometimes do I love? I love my single people.

I love my single friends. But even my single friends when they try to give me advice about how I should move even different through even my single female friends when they're like, oh, well, you know, KaDee, maybe feeling

this or maybe you should try this. Sometimes I'll be like, yo, with all due respect, you can't possibly understand what what it feels like to want to be of service to somebody because either you you've tried failed, you've chosen not to, you have no desire right, or you have no desire to be In either case, then you can understand the feeling I have. Not that you're wrong, but you can't understand the feeling I have to want to work to

be with this person. So to hear all of the opinions and hear all the stuff of people who are not even actively trying to be in relationships about how married people should be sound crazy to me because it also takes a delusional person. It really doesn't think, but it takes a delusional person to be married right think about this, to believe that this person, like you, have a blind trust in someone that at any point can decide the married person you feel like has an element

of delusion in them. All crazy. We're all crazy because we all walke around here and trying to figure it out. All. That's what Delenna said yesterday, she said, we're here, we have no pretending like wet figure out and we don't. We don't, and we're all crazy to think that. Just just to think that you are going to choose me all the time, every single time, the way I want it done, and the minute you don't, I get upset.

It's fucking delusional. It's delusional. And to be honest, I'm delusional because I'd be like, I'd be like, 't gonna do it the way I want to do it? And then when you don't every day, I think you are delusional because you want because you on your side. I think that I'm going to make all my decisions based on you every single time. That's delusional, you know what I'm saying. And the thing is, I'm willing to admit that married people are crazy, you know what I'm saying.

But at the same time, I'm not trying to listen to a single person tell me what loyalty looks like, because that's that's really what it is. A lot of a lot of single people have comments about this. This is why I can't get married, because the loyalty you're not even trying. You gotta kind of be I mean, to be honest, you have to be a little delusional to believe in God. It's blind faith, right, it's blind faith, and we and yet we do right, and yet we

do so I believe in loyalty. I believe in loyalty is blind, it's blinding, and it's hard even a relationship with God's herd yes, because there's the tests, there's blind faith, Like you said, there's getting through what we What were we watching? And the young lady said, um, oh, it was Jamie Foxx showing Netflix. Dad, don't embarrass me, And I think it was the first The second episode was about church and she didn't want to go to church anymore.

And the reason why she didn't want to go to church anymore was because her mom made her go to church, and when her mom got sick, she prayed to God to save her mom. And when her mom died, she said, I did all that pray and it didn't work. Why should I believe in a God that would let my mom die? Right once again, conditional. Your loyalty to God or the God that you pray to is only conditional based on you getting everything you want every single time.

You see what I'm saying. That doesn't mean that God doesn't exist. That just means that you're loyalty to him or to anybody else. It's fake because you're only going to be loyal when you get what you want, or it's just not wholehearted. But it's just not wholehearted. Conditional, conditional, conditional. Shout out to Jamie foxx Sidbar the Homie. Five ways to choose your partner every day. Celebrate the winds, hold on through the lows. Remember step in instead of stepping out.

Remember your manners, which are sometimes real hard, because very hard sometimes because to delusional people thinking they write all the time, man right, man is what um? Share the winds and respect yes, basy and remember your man is like the same, and share the winds and celebrate the winds. It's kind of the same. So this could be three things to choose your partner every day. Well, I mean, I guess that's the most important one though, is what

hold on through the Absolutely it's easy to celebrate. But you can celebrate winds with people you don't even like. That's a fact. You got to share the wins. I'm not celebrating nothing with people I don't like. That's been that's been hitting you lately. You've been seeming very upset about that. I'm not upset, but I'm just being mindful of my space and my energy. I got you. That's just what it is, you know, and respecting through the lows.

In respect that because Kadina and I have had some moments where we've disrespected each other when when stuff got low, said some wild stuff to each other. But you know we're here. We're here because I wanted, because I want to be Yes, that is the fact. And you also know that if you have attempted to do anything else, I will punch you down and find you she's crazy, delusional. Guys. Well, I guess it's about time we take a quick break and raison news and then we'll come back to listener

letters and see what y'all have to talk about. Thanks. All right, we're back, guys to Caden's favorite part of the show, listener letters. Let's see what you have for me today. UM, I'll go all right. First, I want to say that I am a huge fan. Starting from you guys feature on Black Love. Yeah, we love Black Love, Thank you so much. Um. From then, I've been keeping up with you guys, and I love the podcast. Me and my husband have been together since teenagers sixteen years together,

five married, three children thirteen six and two. We're both thirty four years old, and throughout the years we have been. There has been infidelity on both sides. I cheated in the marriage also because of the insecurity I have from felt from his I guess from his infidelity. Okay, so she cheated because he did. Um. When he gets caught, he lies about it no matter the evidence. He will deny, deny, deny,

but claims he wants his family. Just recently, I decided marriage counseling was my last draw, and within the counseling, he opened up to me that he was molested by a woman who babysat him and his brother when he was a child, and the cheating is his way for him to feel in control. I love him, I really do, and I want to be there for him in this time. But part of me feels like with therapy he can get through the situation and be the faithful, loving husband

I need. But on the other side, I feel like, even with therapy, will the cheating ever stop. This is tough, but I've been so hurt and so broken by the infidelity I really can't take another hit. On the flip side, I do want to be supportive and fight for my marriage.

What's a girl to do? The first thing I want to say is Um, I'm I'm glad she talked about the story because people think that molestation only happens on one side, but many young men deal with molestation as well, and it can be an issue as that person becomes an adult. If they don't deal with it, manifests itself. I think that's differently different people. UM, and I can't

speak too much on it because that's not something I've experienced. However, I do know that in just speaking to people are just hearing about stories, that it can manifest itself in different ways. And I have heard people say men and women say when they've been molested, at some point they do feel like they want to take control of their sexuality, so they become more sexual. I've heard that being one of the ways it manifests, if not the only way.

So the fact that you guys are in therapy and working on it, hopefully therapy can help him deal with his past trauma and if he can deal with it and he can be the husband that you want him to be. So I do think there's hope. Yeah, I

don't think there's hope. I do understand you don't also feeling like you don't want to take another hit but I think that since this his surface and before or he used to just deny, deny, deny, Now that you guys are in counseling and we're getting kind of to the root of why he's doing it, there's a possibility that there may be a breakthrough and if he deals with that, there may be a brighter side for them. And ultimately, it's just whether you want to or not.

No one else can give you advice or say to you whether you should be with your husband or not. If it's not a detriment to you physically, mentally or your health, If it's something you can work on together and you want to be there, work on it, don't ever let somebody else say to you you should just walk away. You understand what I'm saying. So, so, I think this is a choice that you have to make personally. It seems like you guys are pulling out all the

stops to figure out a way to help. Yeah, definitely fighting for the marriage to Yeah. So I said, yeah, definitely be there as a support system to him, you know, as you to work on this together, because it seems that you've had a really great history together. You have three children, invested both still young, only thirty or four years old. UM, so good luck to you guys on that. Yes, I am a twenty six year old male in my

relationship definitely reminds me of both of you. Literally almost everything you'll talk about I feel like I can relate to in some way. And when I started to listen from the first season so now just a few months ago, has definitely been a source of therapy for me personally. Testimony. So, my fiance and I have been together since we were sixteen and fifteen, were twenty and twenty five, and we're going to be married at the end of the summer.

Growing up from teams to young adults, going through high school and college and now adulting, it has been a full roller coaster, as expected in any relationship, and we're just scratching the surface by entering marriage. Throughout the eleven years of being together, there has been breakups, to makeups and so forth, and transgressions mainly on my end, but

we're still here. And we were supposed to get married last year, but COVID delayed that and we ended up getting a home together and moved in together, which we will be six months, which will be in six minutes before the wedding, and by this happening, it has really opened up the door to us digging deeper in our connection and addressing issues like sex and trust and her and understanding one another and communication. And we started to do a couple of therapy and also marriage counseling because

the wedding is soon. What I need help with with now is still feeling what what I need a little hope with now? Is I still feel like something is in the way or blocking us or I don't know if it's just me so reaching another level in our relationship. I don't know what that is. I don't know if I should be concerned or just go with the flow. We're both on the same page now and we both know we can never be ready to be married. So I don't think it's the cold feat starting to kick in.

It's just something that I feel like it's missing that could take us to the next level, especially listening and learning from YouTube. What is your advice and opinion on this? So him feeling that something is missing, Remember, we had moments I feel like in our relationships kind of I guess kind of like we can relate because we met when we wereround eighteen nineteen and then here we are now.

So they've been ten years into their relationship. Remember we had moments where we felt like, man, things are kind of coasting and doing too well, Like what's going to happen to just take us to the next level. And for me be kind of the pessimist pessimists that I was, would always bee like, damn, something bad, it's probably gonna happen that will then test us, you know, and take us to either the next level or just break us

up or something. Um. So I can kind of understand what he means when he says that he feels like there's something, but I also feel like to being together for ten years, you get into this groove sometimes and they can tend to be a little monotonous at monotonous at times where you feel like, damn, like everything is just kind of coasting. When is something going to happen? Um, But they did have a lot that happened to you

figure in the eleven years that they've been together. Um, they have the house now, you know with COVID, the wedding got delayed and then people, I think sometimes expect for there to be a grand something to happen after the wedding too, and that doesn't necessarily happen because life kind of just moves on. You have the party for the day and then the next thing. So I don't know if you guys are hoping to have children, maybe children will be the next thing on their list. You

don't think, so, do you know what it is? Okay? Maybe from a band's perspective, you can speak together sty of fifteen and sixteen. Right, they've been together ten years. You know what? They haven't worked on themselves purpose. Everything they've done in their adolescent to now young adult lives has been for each other. Either one of them have focused on their purpose as individuals. And I know this

because we went through this. And I tell anybody who starts being in a relationship from young, you cannot be complete in a relationship if you don't know who you are what you're doing. Some of the poor choices I made in our relationships stem from the fact that when I was young, I was always trying to do everything for you and to please you or to society's standards.

Should have been happening at that point in our life, at that juncture, and it wasn't until I made choices for myself and decisions for myself that it made me make decisions, say, you know what, I want to be here because here is where I thrive or here is where I feel better. But when you're not taking time to do it for yourself, you can't really figure out

if here is where you want to be. Well, that's true because you figure if you have something says an individual goal that you're trying to attain, or something that you want to do for yourself just because you feel like that's your purpose to do in that process or in that victory, that is something then that you together you can celebrate and the benefits of. Right. So that's a really good point about because listen, think about it.

Two years ago now you're thirty seven. Now, two years ago you were thirty five, right, which is still ten years older than them. You and I were sitting down and you were sobbing because you were like, I don't know what my purpose is. And that's thirty five you're telling me. They know, they don't know. And it wasn't until you and I sat down and we have you sat down with our business manager, Donorra and Dinora was like, yo, what's going on like sometimes case seems in, sometimes she

seems out. And I was like, I don't think she knows exactly what she wants to do. And you took some time to buy yourself, not without me guiding you, because I tend to do that. I tend to feel like and I tend to lean on like you for advice. So it really took soul searching myself. You know what, I'm praying on certain things and fasting about certain things and just really just saying okay, and this is what

I am saying, devout. I thought I wanted to do this because part of our relationship was me being expected to do this as your wife. And he was like, I just don't want to do it or some of these were dreams that I had when I was like younger, pre marriage, three kids, free everything, And I was like, I thought, that's where my interest lies, and it's just not lying it no more. You know, So yes, young man, because you're twenty six, and I think the same should

be for your fiance as well. You know, just taking some time for both of you. You know, your mom told us early in she said, y'all need to take some time to learn yourselves. You right, you don't know who you are, all into each other playing house so young. I need stopping. Stop. She said that pretty was just like that. Stop. That's how my mom's been looking when she talked to me, and she's stop. And at the time, I was in twenties and I'm thinking I know everything

all the time. Fifteen to twenty you think you know everything. Five you know you know everything. To thirty you start to realize like should I ain't know nothing at all time? Then in your thirties you're fixing all of the mistakes you made from fifteen to thirty, So take some time to know yourself. I'm thirty seven. I've seen a lot of people to say they're not gett married in their twenties now, like a lot of millennial gen Zers are

the gen Z's after us. Yeah, a lot of them saying like, man, I don't know based on what they are we gonna get married in If you could do it all over again, would you get married in twenties? Um? No, No, Or I would have maybe taken some time to just build on my own. I always wanted to have my own place, my own apartment somewhere, do my own things.

So no, I probably wouldn't have gone wouldn't I probably would have And also know what now and also to a different perspective I looked at as a woman, was like, damn in my twenties and if I want to be married and have children, like the clock's going to take and then you realize, like the clock is not really take care of your body and take care your body that you're supposed to do, and you know you'll be all right having children in your thirties. So I I

would get married in my twenties. I would have took time to focus on myself. Saved us a lot of heartbreak and anger toward frustration towards each other. Now I will say this, what we have now is special because we've been through all of that and now it's sure you know what I'm saying. Kind feel like we're a bit of an anomaly. Sometimes I agree, you can't. You can't show me the exception to make it the rule. So would I change what happened with us? No, I'd

never change it. But I have boys, hopefully one day I have a daughter. And if they ask me what they should do, I'm not going to say meet your wife or your your your husband at stick it out. I'm not gonna do that. So young man, I think you should focus on learning about yourself. Let your your young lady focus on learning about herself and come together a complete, a complete individual. So y'all can choose to enjoy life together, because I think that's what we do now.

And some days I still wake up like, name, something's missing, But I know it's because I'm not doing fully what I want to do yet, So that feeling of emptiness doesn't come from my lack in my marriage. It comes from me not fulfilling my purpose of what that is true because if that sometimes wakes up some mornings and you know, we kind of see this little down, a little funk, and I automatically think it's because of me. Like naturally, I'm like, oh my god, what did I do?

What did I not do? What is it? I'm literally and is everything okay? And He'll be just like, no, I just I just want to act so bad. I want to be on these films. I want to be making blockbuster films, like That's what I want to do. And I'm like, oh, so he's just having a moment where within the context of his purpose and where he wants to be in life. He feels like he's not there yet, but there's that burning desire and not for nothing. Money can't change that. Because Cadine used to wake up,

I was making a ton of money playing football. Can he used to make up and I'm just like, what's wrong with you? Same thing, same thing. She's like, I'm just here. I felt like I was just like, I'm like, I'm thankful that you are able to afford us a lifestyle where we don't have the pressures, but I feel like I'm just wasting away, like that I need to be doing something. And at the time I was my

egos like, damn, is something wrong with me? You know what I'm saying, Like she's so ungrateful, like do I not make enough money that she's not happy? Nothing to do with money. We make more money now than we made when I was playing football, and k still some makes up some mornings and she's just like and but now I don't look at her and be like what am I not doing? I was like, you, baby, you need something to figure out what you need to figure

that out? And we give each other space to do that space and grace all right now, well, if you want to be featured as one of our listener letters, be sure to email us at dead as Advice at gmail dot com. That's d E A d A S S A d V I C E at Gmail. Now time for the mot. You know what the mot is. I just made an acronym that just came to me. When I looked at it, I was like, wait a second, m O TAM is wrong with moment of truth? That

was just like palm. You came up with pull out method conscious exactly and the uh what was it for the other one? Uh s s dB snip them balls. I love a good acronym. I love a good acronym, A right moment, moment of truth. Loyalty. It's earned, not expected, It's not conditional m hm. And in order to prove real loyalty, it has to be tested with adversity. You took all of the moments of truth, Devo, you took all of the truth. I'm just full of knowledge. Don't

be mad at me. That sums it up, y'all. Loyalty, loyalty, loyalty, boom boom. All right, y'all, So be sure to find us on social media. Follow us at dead as the podcast Who Are You, I Am? And Who Are You? If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, be sure to rate, review and subscribe and tell a friend, Tell Auntie, Tell

your Uncle's dead as. Dead Ass is a production of I Heart Media podcast Network and is produced by the Norapinia and Triple Follow the podcast on social media at dead as the Podcasts and never miss a Thing