Let’s Play The Blame Game with Delena Zimmerman, LMFT

We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of a millennium married couple. Dead ass is the term that we say every day. So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Were about to think philows off to a whole new level. M dead ass starts right now. I'm gonna bring us

back too. A couple of weeks ago, all right, Kadine and I have been very diligent about not getting COVID, not spreading COVID, very very diligent about this. Right. We had visitors over long story short, someone brought COVID into the crib. They brought COVID. I was pissed. The first person to test positive for COVID was Jackson, And if you guys listen to us, you know Jackson is a very sensitive, empathetic child. So I take Jackson to the doctor.

He tests positive. I test negative. So he finds out that he's the only one so far in the family that has COVID. Instantly, he's crying, you know, I can't believe I got COVID. Everybody's gonn be mad at me. I got COVID. And I'm trying to talk him off the ledge because I'm like, you know, you you tend things happen. That's with the time. He was nine. So he's like, I just don't want to die. I don't And he's worried about everything, you see, because he's been

watching the news as well. People are dying of COVID. So he's just nervous. So I'm like, listen, no, you know, everything's gonna be fine. And Mommy is gonna be mad because now we can't go to Jamaica. We can't do this, we can't do that. And I'm like, hey, hey, relax, Mommy is not going to be upset. Everybody's gonna be fine. We invited somebody by the house. They had COVID. There was no reason for you to have it. So finally he stops crying. We get to the house. We opened

the door. Kay go, so, I said, Jackson has COVID. The first thing that comes out of Kay's mouth is you see all them times I tell you stop putting your hands in your mouth and putting your hands in your eyes. Jackson immediately looks at me, and you didn't say it like that. Finish your story, no, show them how you said it. Said that, I said, yea. I first came in the door. Oh my god. I wonder if it was the time I took him to the coke factory, because he was touching his eyes and his

face a lot. And I was like, Jackson, do you remember when I was telling you stop touching your eyes in your face. I'm wondering if that was it because me that I was trying to do. Yeah, I was. I was not. I was not yelling at him or be rating him. At that point. The berating happened when the vau start yelling at me, and I was yelling at him, go ahead. Anyway, We walked into We walked in the house, and Kadin said, oh my god, Jackson, you have COVID. I wonder if it happened at the

Coca Cola factor himsells hard. So that's that's how she claims. She said, whatever, go ahead, tell your story, right. So Jackson immediately looks at me and I see his eyes welling up, and I go and dad more. I'm trying to protect my son. I'm like, yo, Jackson, go upstairs. Jackson goes upstairs. I get mad. I lose it. Okay, I was like, I lose it. I'm like, why would you instantly go to a place where he feels like

he's the reason why you have it? And I didn't know about the conversations they were having in the car prior to so exactly. She didn't know about that, So I'm losing it. I'm like, he's an empathetic kid. He's worried about dying. He thinks everyone's gonna blame him. And the first thing you do is blame him forgetting it, even though someone brought it into our house, who was positive, like, there's no reason to sit here and go over with him?

How he might have gotten it because we know someone who was positive came in the house and we all ended up getting it. So I started losing it. I'm screaming, I'm hollering, screaming, screaming, and Codeine is just like, yo, don't scream at me. And at this point I'm like and dad more trying to protect my son, and I'm actink crazy out of character right. Me and Conde ended up going separate ways. She left in the car, was

going for three or four hours, came back. When she came back, I wanted to discuss with her how what we did wasn't good. In the minute I started talking, Codein gets pissed, It's like I'm not talking about this and walks away. We end up having a conversation I think a day later, and we solved that everything was fine. I hear Jackson two days later downstairs on his PlayStation, him and Kyro having a discussion. Then I hear him

screaming at Kiro, just screaming, screaming, screaming. I said, Jackson, come upstairs, what makes you think it's okay for you to scream at your brother like that? And he didn't say nothing. I said Hello, I'm asking you a question, and he said, well, you screamed that Mommy like that, and at that point I had to be accountable. Let's play the blame game. I love you more. Let's play the blame game for sure. Let's call out names, names, hate more. Let's tell all out names names for sure.

This podcast is about accountability or lack thereof, lack thereof, UM, knowing when you're wrong, to admit fault or do you deflect like some people um. In the story time, we talked about the approach to the door codein says Can I can. I's normally with the story, it's like your side of my side, I feel like because that would be some only his stories and be like a little

of some sides. So, prior to knowing what happened in the car, the conversation that he was having with Jackson and Jackson being like on the edge, UM when they got to the door, I was just surprised that Jackson tested positive first, because Jackson had the least interaction with this person that was here, right, so for him to be positive first. I'm thinking now where everything they're going through?

My mind is like, where did I go wrong? As a mom, and did I ever put him in an environment where he was unsafe, where he may have been exposed to All these things are going through my head, and naturally, as a mom, I will say women, we I get a little bit more worked up off the bat, right.

So when they get to the doorway, DeVos just like, yeah, he's positive, and Jackson's like, Mom, I have COVID, and I'm just like, oh my god, I'm wondering if it's when I took you to the world of cope, because I said, remember, Jackson, you were touching that machine and I told you not to touch your eye, like I'm warning if that's when it happened. And Deval was just like, that's when he just blew it. So according to the

I was yelling at the top of my lungs. I was not yelling at the top of my lungs at that point. I was just like more frantic, if anything, trying to figure out why did my son test positive when everybody knows I was wearing a mask on the plane before COVID that I am the biggest German folk and we've been so hyper vigilant, and it just made me so annoying in that moment, because I was just like, why would he be the first one to test positive? I should have or like you should have, like somebody

who had more contact with the person should have. But the personal symptomatic, so we didn't know. I understand that. But here's where accountability comes in. Okay. Codeine has been told by numerous family members that she snaps at people. Have you not your brother, your sister, your mom, the kids? Me? Right? When I tell her that she raised a voice of Jackson,

the first thing is said, no, I didn't. So many times she says no, she doesn't until someone else says, yeah, K, you did snap, and she's like, well, I didn't realize. I'm telling you you snapped at him, and you're sitting here telling me that you didn't. There's no accountability there. I will be accountable. And I did say that, and I spoke to Jackson after the fact and we had a whole discussion. I had a discussion with my son about how I may have reacted to it or how

he may have received it. The thing is, in that moment, I don't know if he received it that way, but I think what amplified it was your reaction to me and that just took things more over the edge. I sat in the car with him for you. You think that, but I sat in the car with him for thirty minutes while he was sobbing, crying, thinking that he was

gonna die, Mimi was gonna die, and everybody's married. So him feeling the brunt of you saying, remember when I told you not to put your hands in your mouth. He was in the car saying, people are gonna be mad at me for COVID. You imagine thinking about me saying that that's not going to happen. And the first thing your mom brings up is the time she took you. And here's my thing. You keep saying, he always puts

his hands in his mouth. So then who takes a nine year old to the Coca cola factory during a pandemic where you have to literally pull the mask down and drink, But then you you putting it on him? There's no accountability there. It's not I hear what you're saying, and I did admit that that was a fault on my part. What I'm saying was that I feel like things got escalated even more when you were irate and

yelling at me. At the top of my lungs, so that that much more where I could have just spoken to him directly as my son and had that I shouldn't have took him out of the house. But also too, I feel bad, like how am I going to be balancing life with my children? They've been locked up in

a house like a first. In that moment, I felt badly because you know what I mean, I'm then blaming my self, like how did I expose my child to this, no matter how much whites I walked with, no matter how much hand sanitizer lightsauce, right, And it was even my friend who I went with laughed at me and she was like, oh my god, you're being that mom. But this is the point, because it's not blame. You made a choice as a mom, right, Whatever happens from

that choice happens. There's no blames, there's no like and and to me, that's why when it first happened and when they all got sick, I didn't say, well you took him to the Coca Cola factory, because there's no blame. You made the choice as a mom. You asked me what I thought, what I say, you want to go take him there's no blame if he gets COVID from there, he gets COVID, we gotta deal with the consequences. There's

no blame at that point. But when But but I do think sometimes is you and I don't want to say moms, but look to blame somebody or take on blame when there's no blame to go around. It's just what happens. Like, there's no blame. He took him to the CoA colda factory. If he got it from there, I don't think he got it from him because someone

with COVID came to our house. I was like, so, my thing is, since we know that someone from COVID came to our house, it makes no even sense to go there but to blame him or possibly blame yourself, there's no point doing that. Well, that's your logic in that moment. I was frantic, like you said, as a mom, I'm like, oh my god, what did I do wrong? I should have never took him out of the house. And yes, chances are he probably didn't get it from there.

He probably definitely got it because we had somebody with COVID in our house. So in my mind, I'm like thinking, so many different things at once that I'm just like speaking, I'm like what is it? What was it? Then I'm just looking to you know what I mean myself, and

then you don't realize how okay? All right? I feel like this went completely far, far left of what the topic was the day, accountability, but also proves that when you try to be accountable, people get uncomfortable being accountable. Like for me personally, I shouldn't have been screaming that day. I shouldn't. I got emotional because I saw my son.

I thought he was going to be hurt and affected emotionally, especially in with COVID that I started screaming, and I was screaming at you because you said what you said to him, So I was screaming. Should I have been screaming at that point? No, I shouldn't have been screaming. And I'm willing to say I screamed at you. I shouldn't. I was wrong. I apologize. When Jackson said to me, you scream at mommy, I instantly said to him, you know what you write, and I gotta be better, same

way you gotta be better. I can't scream at your mother. You can't scream at your brother. So you gotta check me and I gotta check you. But that's me holding him accountable and holding my account accountability myself. The problem with accountability for most people is the minute someone check them or something they do, you know what they do, They get uncomfortable and deflect. And that's what the whole

topic of it today is. You can't be uncomfortable and deflect accountability just because you're the one that has to be accountable. We all have to learn how to be accountable and accept and say, listen, I messed that up because we're all human, Like, you're gonna make mistakes. Nobody walks through here perfect. That goes for you and that goes for me. And if we continue to think that we can be perfect in any relationship, then we're going

to continue to disappoint ourselves. I'm not doing that, Like I'm not. I'm gonna make mistakes, especially when it comes to parenting or even communicating with you, because I'm an emotional person. You know what I'm saying a little bit, A little bit, I'm a little emotional a little bit, Okay, aries man, we got a lot of fire signs up in this house too. So because and you you'll be giving it as much as you do. You think you

get it, you'll be giving it. We have two aries to Sagittarius, and Cairo's the only virgo, and and you're the only woman in the house other than Mimi. So the boys be like, like, when you come at them, it's different than when I come at them. I feel like, for them, it's like Dad, it's going to be dad, But when you come at them, it's like hurt. Because I watched them when you talk to them, you know what I'm saying, Even when you're trying to be calm as a mom, you have a earnest that it like

rocks them. And I think also they have they have a bit of like a They worry that they're going to disappoint I think, but both of us, and they worry a lot about what we think, which is I like that. I'm okay with that, but I don't have to have to know how to straddle defense with it. I don't want them to fear me, but I also want them to have that respect and know that man,

I don't want to disappoint my mom and dad. So yeah, which which I think they need as kids, But they also need to learn how to be accountable, because look at look at the way we bring them up, right, look at the way you and I were brought up. You the firstborn daughter, but you're a pageant girl. Your your dad coddled you a lot. Well, he caught us all of y'all like, that's just my dad's just not

easy going. And he's yeah, he's easy going whatever. You know, if something is wrong, he's going to try and make it easy or fix it or whatever. Your mom does not coddle you at all. Your mom is all about accountability. And you see the way for you and your sister, my sister, Yeah, but not the same way with your brother. You look at my family, My both my parents are accountable for me and my brother. When it comes to

my sister not so much. And I can see how we all approach life differently because of the way we've been right, you know what I'm saying, accountable or not accountable, right, and they have made us who we are. Um and yeah, so so accountability. Let's let's dial it back for people. Um. You know, I like to pull up definitions and whatnot, So thank you triple for pulling up the definition of accountability. According to Webster website. Anybody still have a website dictionary?

I got Jackson the actual dictionary set, like the book, like look up the word. If you're reading and you don't know it, you can google a son a website diction. He definitely has it opened his room because I was like, that way, it's less screen time. You don't have to look it up on Google. You can just open up here and gave it to him as if it was like something great, like look right. So he's excited, right, So you're just like, what's up? And She's just like,

this is dictionary? And Jackson is like and I was like, so it goes from A to Z that excitement because I was that kid back in there. I was spelling bee champ. I was big on vocabulary. I still lamped to this day. So he gonna know some words, all right? Then s A T joints any who. Um. Accountability is the obligation or willingness to accept responsibility for one's action. Some call it cancel culture, which is a big thing now, um, but the fact is that you don't always need permission

to be held accountable for your actions. And we and as we explore the different ways Accountability can manifest itself in our lives, whether we're holding ourselves accountable for our own goals, or we're holding our loved ones accountable for the harm that they've caused, or even as we fight to uphold the system accountable for systemic injustice, we realized that the common thread is that accountability cannot be a one time thing. It is an on going process that

results in real, actual, sustainable, tangible change. And if we want to create a better world for generations to come, freaking be accountable, whether it feels good or not. Can I be honest? It's necessary? Sounds easy, right? Can bet? I think the world nowadays lacks accountability as I look at the way we raise kids. Right, but everybody gets a trophy. Everybody gets a trophy. You're not allowed to uh punish kids even verbally frustrate or give them push ups.

Those type of punishments are now illegal with sports, so kids are not held accountable. And teachers they're trying to take away grades now for from for some reason in a certain schools. You can't grade papers now, you can't write with a red pen. I used to look forward to the person I used to look forward to that because that for me was just like, Okay, I've helped I feel accountable by studying, and there's my reward. Words like word system. But you know what's funny you talked

about counsel cancel culture. Right, we've pulled back on the accountability that we give to people, but then want to cancel them for make a mistake, for making one mistake X. Make that makes sense. Make it makes sense. From the time they're young to adults, we don't want to hold them responsible for nothing. But then if if we say that they do something wrong, oh they that's it. How do how does anyone even learn accountability or redemption if we don't hold them accountable? From me? And I think

we should bring somebody in to talk about it. What you think somebody understands and knows this, we definitely will. But I want you to talk a little bit about your upbringing. Why because I was like we were going with this ahead. No, I want you to talk a little bit about your upbringing and how you're upbringing has helped you or not helps you with accountability. Well, um, I've said before in previous podcasts that I come from a family of not a lot of communication. When things.

You know, you felt a certain kind of way, or you were unhappy you with something, it was kind of just like, oh, you just kind of deal with it. Or if you were unhappy with something your sibling did or your parent did, it's kind of just like, well, you know, sweep it under rug and it'll go away. There was we call it the Ostrich technique in my family would be kind of just kind of duck and just like I think that it will eventually go away. So coming from that UM and that environment, that did

not really encourage communication. UM. And not to say we didn't encourage in communication because we were, we were silenced. It was just more like it just wasn't encouraged. It's just like, oh, that's how people are. That's how your mom is, that's how your dad is, that's how your brother and sister is. So that's just what it is. UM. It was particularly difficult when I became UM, but we got into a relationship because you came from the opposite. So that being said, being able to open up to

being able to be accountable. I've never had somebody approached me and say, Codeine, I don't like the way you're doing X y Z, whether it be a sibling or a parent. So I was used to kind of just existing in a space where I did quique each other like that. No, we just kind I did our best and we were just like all right, well, you know, so hearing any feedback when we got together, you wanted to have those conversations. You wanted to say, well, Katine,

you did this wrong. It then required me to then say I did something wrong. Oh my god, but I thought I was doing my best. She was just passive aggressive with her critique. She was never direct. Yeah. Yeah, it was kind of like that, you know, um, and there was that I want to want to say. There wasn't any real substance to those those situations, but it

was very sparse. It was kind of just like, you know, in passing, like Katine, you should do this, or I think you should do that, and just me, you know, listening to my mom. I would try to say, okay, mom, I get it, you know, or just be like, oh, here's my mom being my mom. So not really taking

it with any value. But at the same time, you know, then coming meeting somebody who was so extra vocal, then it felt like I was I was then at a deficit all the time, or I felt like I was at um, I was an inadequate in certain spaces because I'm like, wow, somebody's like critiquing me on how I'm existing, you know, And this is why I was taking a bag. I was taken it back by it because I was like, wow, I felt like it was just being very you're being

very nitpicky. At certain points, I felt like, damn, I can't do anything right. Um. It was a lot of me feeling like my ego was bruised because here I was thinking I was being a grand girlfriend or a grandwife at that time, only for you to say like nazis you you're not actually um. So that was just particularly hard for me too to swallow. And I felt like, you know, I was just being blamed for a lot of things. So for me, I think there's a very like thin line between how do you be accountable? Um,

are you being blamed? And then do you get defensive? Because you always say get defensive And for me, it's just like, well, if I arrived at this particular destination, I'm not defending it. I'm just letting you know how I got there, and you hate that. So sometimes I don't even know how to exist in the debate or in an argument with you, because I feel like, damn, if I can't tell you my mindset or how I got there, then what should I do? Just be accountable

and just say okay. So now you see why we have arguments all the time because my backround is completely different. In my household, we had family caucuses and family discussions where my parents sat us down and told us everything we was doing wrong all the time. Never happened with me your whole life. Your parents never sat you down and said, you know, I can't I cannot recall my parents sitting down with like me, my brother, and my sister. Bro. This was like early on growing up. Now we do

that often, but early on never happened. This was like a weekly thing in my house. So like every Friday or every time it's time to clean up something, my mother would come down and just read everybody to riot at and then my father would you know, you heard what your mother said? So I was used to That's that's the type of communication I'm used to. I'm also used to having my being able to express my opinion because my parents used to allow what's to say our peace.

So take that on top of the fact that I've been an athlete. I did martial arts for five years, then I was playing basketball, then football, then college, then in the NFL. Right in those environments, they literally put you down in front of a TV and point out all of your mistakes and you can't say anything like. They don't want to hear excuses. They just want to this is what you did wrong. They don't want to hear why you did it. They just want you to

correct it. That's become what I'm used to. I'm used to communicating with people like that, like I'm used to being able to be because that, in my mind, made me the person I am today. And it's lost you a lot of friends of friends. But a lot of people can't handle that if they're not accustomed to it. It did. It did lose me a lot of friends. I will say that, but UM to be honest, I

don't value friendships where I can't be transparent. If our friendships are dependent upon me telling you what you want to hear, as opposed to me telling you something that's going to make you better than we're not gonna be friends because we're gonna be moving in two different directions.

I said to say, some people are sensitive to the way things are delivered or the ways you know what I mean, I get it, and that's why Codein and I have like arguments, or when you see us and we're talking about something, it can go left, like the beginning of this podcast to her was going left because I was just pointing out what I saw was wrong. And then she felt like I was attacking her while I was blaming her when I'm like, I'm not blaming you.

I'm just telling you what I saw. But if you felt like blame, I mean, it is what it is. Because in my mind, when I did something wrong on the football field, and I'll be honest, you could be running the route and the coaches said, run a hitch. The hitch is supposed to be seven yards, you turn around, catch the ball, you run your hits, you turn around the ball. Don't come coach, say what happened? You didn't get your depth. The depth is the yard is. And you're like, coach, I got my depth. I got my

depth to you too. Argument this has happened to men for you and the coach are going to feel it's fine, wait till we see it on film. Then you get to watch the film and you see that you only win five yards, and now you feel like an asshole because you out there because it out no. But I've learned. I've learned though, that when you think you're right because you see things from your perspective, the eye in the

sky don't lie. So when you get to see yourself from someone else perspective and you were like, damn, I didn't even go seven yards, you learn how to shut up and just take the criticism. And that's when it comes to us. When you want to point out something to me, I'll be like, all right, all right, I got it. But then when I try to point out something for you, you want to give me all the reasons why you did it that way. And all I'm trying to say is you've given me reasons why you

did it that way. Don't change the fact that what you did hurt me. You understand what I'm saying, and to me, that's the accountability. You can give me a thousand reasons why you did it that way still hurt me. Do you plan on changing the way you did it because it hurt me? Or you just be like, I did it that way because and then we're going to continue to do it that way because that's the way I do it. And I think that's different because something to hurt me. I want to know why, Like what

was your mind set there? Whereas you don't care about the mindset. You're just like, well I'm hurt, so that's it, you know, Well no, but I'm going to change the behavior if you say to me, if you say to me, moving forward, Yeah, moving forward, And that's that's always been my thing. If you said to me, right, if you said to me the value you did X y Z, you know what I'm gonna do, all right, all right, you don't like that. I'm not going to give you a bunch of excuses and reasons why I did it.

Clearly you don't like that. Let me just see if I can maneuver to do it in a way where you find it accepting or we can meet on the same page. And and that's just approach. That's your family traumas, my family traumas. You're upbringing my upbringing. And to this day we still have arguments because can we bring in my expert now, because this is like, this is like, man, this is a lot so I feel like we need

to talk to somebody though. Let's talk to some money and see they can give us some advice on this, if that's what you want to do. Baby, See how I go to See how I go to the husband. Boys, it's gonna be a long episode. I was long winded this one. Yes, you were You wasn't talking. He wasn't talking,

he was going in. Let me ask you, Kadine about No, let's leave it to the therapist who we got on here today today, y'all go back and see what was talking, and then y'all let Kadino head over to the expert. I've been trying to get to Delana for that long now, Delena, I hope you stilly assist us. All right, So today we brought Delana Zimmerman on to help us understand what exactly is this thing called accountability and to help us better approach it in all spec aspects of our life

and relationship. So Delna Zimmerman, Hello, Delena, how are you him? Great? I'm gonna tell I'm gonna tell our people a little bit about you. So Delana Zimmerman is a trauma recovery coach, a motivational speaker, and a license marriage and family therapist.

She's also a television personality, best known for her psychotherapy cameos on v H one's Basketball Wives of l A. As a motivation speaker, Delna brings more than twenty years of experience and tools engaging audiences locally, nationally, and internationally. Do you have quite the resume? Missting like that? Like that? So? How are you today? First and foremost? Has everything been so far shaping out all right for you? So far?

It's good. It's challenged me to stretch and grow. I'm not always knowing what obstacles it is I have to leave and who does right? I supposed you have to leave right in order to go to the next level? Got me ready? But I'm moving now, I'm in action, So I'm decided. Good, that's here, Delena. It's um, it's glad. I'm glad to have you on because Codein and I have built pretty much built a platform on being transparent

with each other. And the one thing I've learned about being transparent with my wife in the public eye is how uncomfortable transparency between two people's make the rest of the world. Um, But I will have to say this that Codeina and I were able to become more transparent with each other when we started to understand each other's family dynamic, her nuclear family she grew up in, and

my nuclear family and I grew up in. And I started to realize my flaws and issues I've had with communication because I thought the way that my family communicated was the only way someone can communicate. UM, can you talk a little bit about understanding your own personal family trauma and what you bring to a relationship when you don't deal with that trauma. Oh wow, that's a beautiful question,

and I'm so glad you asked it. Um. Many people get into relationships and the delusion that they're going to meet someone who's going to meet their needs and their emotional needs, you know. And nobody got out of their family system unscathed, no one, did, you know, Like everyone was, UM has some residue of their experience with their parents

or with the sibling system. And UM, and unless those things are addressed, than partners believe that the other partners responsible to make them feel whole in the areas that they don't feel whole. And so it is a lie that really Loved Songs told us this lie they told us that, you know, you would need someone to meet your all your needs. Disney told us that, but the

work has to happen on the inside. And since we're talking about accountability, individuals are responsible for their individual healing, and so you can bring a whole self to a relationship and then you can participate in the relationship, you know, with less um danger because everyone's looking for safe. So I have a question, how what is the easiest way? And I try to say easiest way because a lot of people are taken back by our approach where we

just pretty much tell each other how it is. What is the easiest way to tell our listeners to talk to their partner about dealing with their own family traumas before trying to come into a relationship, because that's that was something could I was. The first five years of our marriage, we were like at odds because she dealt with things her way and I dealt with things my way. She thought she was right, I thought I was right,

and we both were wrong, you know. But it got to a point where we just like, you know what effort. You know, I don't like the way you do this because your family, and I started calling out her family. She started calling out my family and it worked for us, but that don't work for everybody. So what's an easy way or a healthy way to speak to your partner about dealing with their family trauma. Um, First of all, you have to first admit that we're just humans. Nobody

knows what they're doing. You know, we're raising you guys are raising kids like every day is an experiment, right, every single day as an experiment, And and what happened last Tuesday is not gonna happen this Tuesday. And so what I think is important in a relationship is to agree that we're just humans, right, and that that takes the ego out of it that I really don't I've never done this before. I've never in this age before, I've never had these responsibilities before, I never bid this

person before. And so to answer your question specifically, I think it's important for couples to understand that relationships need room room space for you to grow and develop and learn from your mistakes. And if we're in a relationship, that means that your real promise to me is that you're gonna work it out with me while I make my mistakes in front of you, while I grow up in front of you while I be come in front

of you. And if there ain't no room for that the relationship, yeah, you need space along with the grace to go with it, you know what I mean to me, It just sounds so cliche and simple that when you say that, but then people always have a torture. I ain't giving nobody grace. I'm not letting nobody cheat on me. I ain't letting nobody walk all over and nobody talk to me on how And it's like, no one's telling you to let anybody do anything but giving someone grace,

what exactly is giving someone healthy grace? I think we should take it back to the first to the topic, which is accountability and what is the difference delana between someone being blamed for something and then accountability, because I think that's like where it starts. You know, you can't be held accountable until, like you said, you admit or you're aware, there's a self awareness that there is something that's wrong per se or something that needs to be addressed.

So how do we know when we're blaming someone versus just requesting that they take a front ability? Um, So a lot of the family system comes with blame, and I know that's how it is culturally. You know, the face gets broke, who broke it right? And then it has to be blame and punishment. So we come from a pattern of that blame and punishment. I mean, if we just look at our history, it's just that's what happened. Somebody has to take responsibility. There has to be justice

per se in the relationship. I come from a stance or I believe deeply that our problems, my problem, your problem begins and ends with you. So if you're cheating, we need to look at that. Like, there's no way we can't look at that's something that needs to be resolved in you. I'm not responsible for your cheating. You're responsible for your cheating if it's if it's a deal breaker for me, If you're outside of the agreements of our relationship, then we need to look at the accountability

to our agreements. So that's the difference between blaming and taking accountability. Relationships should have agreements, we should agree, but what are the what are the what's the circumference of our relationship? What is included in our relationship? One of the agreements you have is transparency. So when you're outside of that, then you have to have accountability for what you've agreed to. Well, mostly people don't know to have

agreements and relationships. They just get in pretending they know what to do and hopefully the other person does too. And if you break what is a rule that everybody knows, or you break my family constitute or the sins that I hold against people, then I begin to blame you for how I feel. But you're not responsible for how I feel. I'm responsible for how I feel because I feel from the filter or the perspective of my life. If I've been a victim of my life, then I'll

be a victim in this relationship. Ah So, so one thing that Canine and I struggle with till this day is even outside of just our family units and our sibling structure. Right, I was a Division one athlete and a professional athlete. They held you accountable by putting you in front of a camera and pointing out all of

your flaws. So I became comfortable with that. So when I sit down and talk to k sometimes that's the only way I know how to point out accountability is to say, Babe, you did this wrong, and for her, she feels like, well, you're always blaming me or you're always like knitpicking, like there's a laundry list of things that he down is like he's giving me specific So which specifics help? Because sometimes you'll just say, well, you don't do this, and and I'll retort with well when

when you know, give me a specific scenario. So, so my my question is is there a healthy and unhealthy way to hold your partner accountable? And what are some tools people can take home and say, you know what, I want to hold my partner accountable, but I don't want her or him to feel blamed and I don't want to feel like I'm attacking them, you know, m um. So the point I made and the last question was about so if if if your partners sensitive from their

childhood experience. Right. So, in my relationship, I'm an only child and my partners is comes from a family of seven, so he has tougher skin than I. Right, So he says things in a way that make me feel uncomfortable, But the truth is he doesn't make me feel anything. I bring that predisposition to sensitivity to the relationship and he brings a tougher thing to the relationship. We're not making each other anything. I that's how I process and

experience conflict. That's how our process and experience right when someone brings me something, that is a constructive criticism. Right, So the relationship again has to have space for and he I'd like to talk to you about how we're handling the dishes, and then there can be a conversation about how we're handling the dishes. I need the spoons to be up, not down, because they get spots on

them and it seems like something minor. But you can say the dishes, I mean the spoon is down again, and then I feel not good enough in the relationship because I've made an error. But I bring that to the relationship that's not new to you. You don't place it in me, so you're not responsible for At the point I'm trying to make is you're not responsible. You didn't put that in me. And when I feel it, I want you to stick your hand down my throat and turn the switch so I can stop feeling it.

You know, I'm gonna tell you why. That's that's so crystal clear to me. I've been trained and nurtured as a young man to not feel you know I've been you fall, get up, don't cry. Being the first born in my family, my parents were always on me and I couldn't respond with an emotional response because that was not acceptable as a young man. Then being an athlete, They're gonna tell you and curse you. I'll call you all sorts of name. Do not respond, listen to what

I'm saying, be accountable and fix it. But as a young woman, Cadeine was raised differently. She was raised to, you know, be emotional and have emotional I was emotional clarity or what what's the word I'm thinking of, where um, you're allowed to have emotional responses and be aware of how you feel like She's always it was encouraged in

her as a young lady. So sometimes when I say things to her, I don't understand how she could feel a way about me saying something simple because when it said to me the same way, it doesn't make me feel that way. And that's where we were different. We were struggling because I literally was like, I don't understand how me saying this to you made you feel that way when if you say the exact same thing to me,

I'm able to process it and it doesn't hurt. But when you explain it that way, she comes with that. I come with this, so nobody made me feel like this. It makes sense. But yeah, I totally get that, and it makes so much sense to Leana. But at one point do we as adults stop leaning on or blaming

how we were raised, generational traumas things like that. At what point, Like, of course we know that makes us as a person, But at what point do we as an adult say, you know what, I understand that I was raised this way or this is what I'm accustomed to. But then how do I break free of that because I know better? Do you see that people are able

to easily do that? Or no? No? Um, it's important to know, you know, it's important to know, which means that you can take responsibility for yourself right and to practice something different. Learning how to metabolize your emotions is

being accountable right, that that's self accountability. I have this emotion, I feel it in my stomach, and whenever I feel that feeling in my stomach, I at the same way, the same way I acted at eight when I felt it in my stomach, I act the same way I acted at quill when I feel that same feeling in my stomach, right, Like, I have to take accountability for that, and so I don't have to blame my trauma, but I have to recognize that I've been shaped in a

particular way. So if I if my childhood shaped me in a triangle, I can't expect to be a circle. If that makes sense, I'm gonna try and go on. I have sharp edges, and so I need to honor that about myself and I need to make room. So if I feel triggered, right, I don't continue in the argument.

We have agreements in our relationship, in our conflict where I say, you know what I'm feeling triggered, hond you give me a little bit, Let's step away from this conversation and for a while, because I want to be responsible in the relationship. That's accountability, emotional responsibility. M hmm.

See that that makes sense, But but it makes me wonder, though, how do you raise your children to be emotionally intelligent so that they're not they don't put themselves in the box of just being a triangle or a circle, like I feel like even emotionally malleable to is that even possible to to make to you children. Yeah, I think so. You give give your children language around feelings, teach them how to say how they feel, give them space to feel that it's safe. They need to feel safe with you.

You have to be the safe place for them to emote. Like you said, you know, continued that that well developed, that you didn't have safety to emote. You were told it wasn't okay. So if you have sons, then it's important for them to know that it's not weak to say, you know, I'm afraid too before the game. It's okay to say I have jitters. It's okay to say that and still run and get you some touchdowns. But it's okay to say, you know, I'm concerned about my relationships

at school. That they need to be able to say that to you, because I really believe that is the the the breaking down and development from age five to twelve. That's where the inferiority complex is built in children. The

inferiority slash superiority complex is built in children. So if they don't have a safe place in relationships where they feel competent emotionally, that's where the trauma occurs developmentally and it manifests itself in its relationships exactly when we're dealing with I know, but I think we've been doing a great job because Jelena, we've been dealing with this. We have three boys. Our oldest jackson, who's ten. We've been dealing with this recently with him having like performing anxiety

or little things like that. So Deval has been trying to and and me as well. We've been trying to make sure that he's vocal about the way he feels and he doesn't bottle it up because he's a total empeth. He totally like takes people's emotions and everything on him, so in that we want him to be expressive. So I think we've been trying to work with him. I've

been trying to find a bout. I've been spending a lot more time with him, Like he and I do a lot more one on one stuff, and um, it's a thing where you know, I can tell when he's getting nervous and I say, Bro, you're nervous, right, And he was like yeah, And I'm like, you know that's okay, Like he's okay to be nervous. I used to be nervous. And I'll see him light up and he's like, Okay,

so I'm nervous, So what do I do? I say, the way you work through your nervousness is you continue practicing while nervous, and that muscle movement becomes muscle memory and you'll be able to recall on it even when you're nervous, and you can still perform. And I've watched him like grow in doing that. Um, But I also was fearful of being a crutch and that if he doesn't have his dad before a game, will he learned

how to do that on his own. And I've been trying to work out a lot will Okay, this this gives me hope because I, um, you know he's tending, so you don't want to put too much pressure on the tenuo. But I also want him to be great in anything. I don't care if it's sports, I don't care if it's acting or being a CEO. I just want him to be great, but also be emotionally intelligent.

So when he deals with with a woman and he's able to notice what she's going through and be able to be sensitive but also respect his own boundaries and be aware so that he's like, I don't have to take everything that comes with this. And that's what Codeine and I have learned over the last five years. I've learned um. I used. I say this to Condina all the time when we argue the Lena. I said, you know, you live in an alternate universe and she and hat and you love it here because you have a whole

spaceship out in here. But you here said that is true, that is true, that is true. But what you said made me realize that it doesn't matter what I say, how I say it, how loud I said, how quiet quiet? I say, She's going to receive it and feel the way she feels because of what she's been through. So I also can't get on myself about how she I just have to learn and make a decision of whether I want to be here or not, which I do

all the time. And Delanna, I think for me, one word you mentioned earlier on that I rings true is um the ego word. So in dealing with accountability, blaming, punishment, that whole system, leaving the ego out of it. And I think the harder part from me was the admittance. Is that a word? Me admitting that maybe there was a deficit maybe I did do something wrong, maybe I

was lacking something. And it was hard for me because being a person who was always striving to just be perfect and to be liked, because I was also raised you know, you want people to like you. You want people to you know, enjoy your company. So in being like that, um and having that ego, I had to learn how to put the ego aside to then say, Okay, I can now get that accountability, accountability going to not be as defensive. He always just like, you're so defensive.

You're so defensive, and he's like, why can't you just hold yourself accountable? And it sounds easy, but for me, it was me having to admit that there was a deficit some there somewhere there. So for somebody who's like me that may not know how to put that ego aside, Um, how do you think they should approach being able to

be aware that they need to be accountable? Um, we have a responsibility in relationships, period, Like that's what makes them so hard is that I have to take ownership of my role, my position in the relationship like I have to and that feeling of it's really I've named the feeling not being good enough, you know, from age five to twelve is where that inferiority complex is like like built you you hit that, you hit that button, you touch that, And I hate that feeling of not

feeling good enough, so I become defensive or I become afraid that you won't left. Just described. You just described my wife like to a t like literally described. I can accept that in my old age, so in the acceptance of it, write what you said. In the acceptance of it. So every time it comes up, I know that's mine. I gotta breathe through that. I gotta I feel the feeling. The feeling is not gonna kill me.

It never has. So I have to learn how to breathe, breathe and almost oxygenate those chemicals that have been released in my body that have that strong feeling in my stomach I'm responsible for. And then when I can get back to my logical mind, because I get hijacked by that feeling. It always hijacks me. So when I can get back to my logical mind and I can say thank you, honey for pointing that out in me, I want to be the best wife I can be. And oh,

I felt it in my stomach. You know it's okay to say that since you all are transparent with you you know, I felt that in my stomach right, But I understand that I want to be this version in this marriage. I want to be this version. I want to thank you for not letting me stay in a weakness that's accountability as well to each other, but from a place of love. No, I love that. I love

that too, because you've given you've You've given me. I don't want to say, a tool, but you've given me some awareness to see when I just need to stop saying what I'm saying and let her process what's going on, because it doesn't matter how I say it, because we've had arguments before where you know, the old adages is not what you say, is how you say it. So

I've tried that. I've tried to be you know, quiet and be like, hey, babe, I just want to point out that, and then I get this big response back, and I'm like, I'm like and to me, it almost comes across as if he's patronizing me, and like, why are you coming over to me whispering? I get you're trying to do this approach thing, but at the same time,

it just sounds like you're patronizing me. But at least, but at least I'm know now I'm aware to say, you know what, it doesn't matter how I say this, it's going to hit her because she's afraid of that accountability thing. So let me let her process that and she can go through her her way of process again and then come back when she's available. That at least that gives me some some you know, some ways to

to work on that. Both have like grown out of whatever we were conditioned to in to an extent, you know, with our families and stuff like that, we're able to now know how to communicate as a couple because I can't always blame how I was raised. I just kind of feel like that's that's me using a crutch at this point, like, well, that's not the way I was raised, you know, me being at the point I am in my life with you, um and us being this far

entire relationship. We're going on almost nineteen years, Delena, so we've had to learn how to be emotionally malleable at this point with each other. No, absolutely, But you know, Dena, what I've heard from a lot of a lot of men and older men in my community. I've heard this a lot, is that women don't like to be accountable, right, It's like they're just emotional. They don't think logically, remember you say, get back to the logical mind. They don't

think lodge ly. Where I've I've actually found the opposite, especially in this day and age, with women who have who have had to exist in corporate America. A lot more women are athletes. Now I've actually found the opposite. But I have found that I can. I find that in women who do exist in the corporate culture and who do exist in athletes, and women who don't typically are a little bit more um like a little bit more fearful of accountabilitycause they feel attacked. But I also

understand where that comes from. In the patriarchy. There's women who are held to a standard where you have to be this to be considered good enough to be a mate.

And I get where that comes from. And my my question is, as a man raising sons, right, how then this dating process, because we have a lot of listeners who date, and how do I teach my sons to be aware of those flaws or the things they find in women, or how to not only be malleable emotionally, but accept people in their their flaws as dating because a lot of people nowadays, if you're not exactly what I want on the first second date, then moving on.

But you can't build anything like that. Now, you know what I'm saying. So how do I teach my sons to be to be aware of the stuff they're looking for emotionally in people. I'll tell you what you teach your sons every day. They won't do what you say. They're gonna do what they see. I'm gonna tell you that. Now. My mother used to say to me, don't do as I write, don't do as I do, do as I say, And it was impossible. I could only become what she was right. So I would just want to say that.

So we're talking about the family system. Remember you are one. So your sons are going to treat women the way they see you treat your wife, and they're going to love women based on the relationship that they have with their mother. Now, I know we're in this drive through world now and everything's a swipe to the left, a swipe to the right. I get it. There's a reservoir of human beings. Now you know, I got it. So,

uh sometimes a very murky reservoir. Yeah, you know, it's it's very interesting how um things have been kind of I don't know, I don't like it's water down, but I get it. Okay. So to answer your question, your son's I feel deeply about what I'm about to say. I feel that young men are not taught the responsibility they have to be a man just to have a penis. It's like a very it's such a responsibility because if you don't know the power that's in your hand, you

won't treat it effectively. You won't be responsible with me, your weaponize yourself. You and and and women suffer at the end of the irresponsible man. I know, we could say a whole lot about women, but understand, if the man is not in the home, the man is not in the home right and the mother is forced to try to raise a daughter and try to raise a son. But if the man is in the home, that we have a more balanced and intact experience. Does that make sense?

Makes If the man is missing and we know our history where the man is missing, okay, and you have an imbalance in the development of children, period Okay, so think your son has your sons like my children. No, my son knows that girls who didn't grow up in a particular environment or who present in a particular way potentially have this foundation. And you have to decide if that's what you want to invest in, or do you

want to invest in something that's more principled. So I would encourage you to teach your sons to see women as humans and powerful and precious and potentially your wife or your daughter there are someone's daughter, you know what I mean, So that they're careful with them and that they see into the humanity of them and not just the exterior of them. Right, you can teach them that that body is gonna change, right, that's everything's gonna change.

But if the inside of them, if they are lovable, right, if they are peaceful people, if they are willing to grow and change and evolve, that's that's how that's the type of woman that you want to engage in. That's who you want to grow with. But if you don't take time to get to know that, then you are just looking for an exterior thing that is temporary and

it's going to change. I also want to add spiritual people who have a basis or belief that they belong right to the bigger picture, to add to the creator, to the universe. They evolve better, they evolved stronger, They have faith for the future, and you can build with that. Well, you know what I struggle with two is um even

we don't have a daughter yet. I'm always put out thea that on pushing child and have a have a daughter, but I do struggle with how to raise a daughter in this world where, like you said, there is a purpose and the privilege of being a man and having a penis right, but also understanding that men have been discarded in this current climate. Everything that you do that's masculine, even though you'll say be a man. Everything a man

does that's masculine. They call a toxic. So if you're raising a young girl, what type of person do you you raise her to be? As far as accepting a man in her life and understanding the privileges that men have, but also saying you also have to let a man be a man because men are needed in the homes. It's almost like messages are opposite. You know, we need men in the homes, we need men to be men. But then when a man tries to be a man,

it's like everything you do that's masculine is toxic. So it's like like where where's the balance, where's the happy medium? Because we we even see what Kadine and I if I will hear women will say all the time. You know, men need to you know, pay the bills, prevent, protect, provide, da dada. So I we had a podcast where I talked about what my responsibilities and I said that I love to provide and protect and some women took it as, oh,

he's sexist. He doesn't because I said I don't want Cadine to pay chicken as me being submissive, and he was just like I just thought that that was my role, that's as a as a man, Like that's what I do as a man. But it's kind of difficult in this day and age to find these, you know, find where exactly what is toxic, what's not toxic when it comes to masculinity, what is acceptable or not acceptable from

a woman, you know, being with a man. So my question is having a daughter, If we have a daughter, I'm praying on it as much responsibility as we have to put on men. Right, what tips do you have for me in having a daughter, to raise a daughter. That's you know, I know that this answer is going to be censored. I just want to say that now. But I am going to be as honest as I can about this. I have a daughter, Okay, she said, team Um and um, the definitions are changing. It seems

like to me like I am frustrated with it. And um, so you talked about that that corporate America woman, right, she has this psychological independence and um, she really is a man. So she and she gonna struggle in a relationship with a man period. Okay. Um. So the idea about submission and I had to learn this myself. Um, submission is submitting to myself as a woman. So that's

what I teach to my daughter. You submit to yourself as a woman, but you have to understand what it is to be a woman in what your feminine energy is and what power is in that and not giving up and retarded for a role as a man. We're often in our masculine energy because we're producing. I'm always producing. I'm working all day. I'm because you know, I'm in the flow. I'm logical, I'm you know, doing this all day with my man. I need to be in my

feminine energy. I need to be uh soft, and I need to be kind, and I need to be nurturing. I need to be a place of peace. And so I have to understand that that is what makes me so powerful that I have the ability to be that right the safe place for him as he has been in the world being his black face and his powerful self right and and and his male energy. Where where's his piece? If it's not with me, If I'm not the holder of the hearts, I have to be the

holder of the hearts. You have to hold all those hearts, all those men's hearts in your family. Have to be the ceature of it. And that's the responsibility the woman. I hear, my daughter, she has a brother right here, are talking crazy to a moon? Right And so I say, after that, I come here and I said, babe, I need you to develop I need you to break that habit. Where does she learn it? Where did I learn it? Okay?

I asked my daughter to change and practice that tone of voice, like break that because you are not going to be able to be effective in your relationship for the long haul with your husband. He can't respond effectively to that tone of voice. Mm hmm, you see that, And that's I think is what's triggering two women, especially existing in the patriarchy, where they feel like they have to submit themselves to a man in order to exist.

But to me, I think it's the contrary, because I think me we as men, have to be accountable to say, your wife or the woman you're dating is not going to be able to respond if you approach her with the level of of being insensitive or a level of condescen mention or feeling like you're superior. I feel like both have and we talk about this all the time, being accountable for ourselves to serve each other. So it's not just about a woman serving a man. It's also

about me as a man serving my woman. You know what I'm saying, And we hear it all the time. Any time I post anything about serving my wife, men call me a simple any time she posts anything about serving me, women say she's too submissive. But for me, it's just I think it's like you said, I want to be the place that he comes to to decompress and to be, you know, being a black man, especially in this world today, and we're raising three black sons.

I need to be that safe haven of peace for them to be able to let the of the entire world. You know, if we're not that for each other, then what are we doing rommating and having sex? Like otherwise? What is this but that? But that's that's exactly what people think relationships are. I'm so I'm never supposed to submit. She's never supposed to submit. I'm supposed to get everything I want from her, and I'm not supposed to I'm not supposed to sacrifice anything. She's supposed to do the

same thing. And we're supposed to live happily ever after when the marriage. People who have been in successful marriages know that it's not possible, and then there's buzzwords that trigger people to be like, that's why I'll never be in a relationship because I'm never gonna submit or I'm never gonna sacrifice. Why I gotta sacrifice what I want to make him feel better? Why I gotta sacrifice what

I want to make her feel better. That's what a relationship is, and it's being accountable, like like me as a man. That's one thing I will tell you, Delna. I had to learn to be accountable to myself to stop being selfish, stop with my ego, and listen. I had to learn that, and I had to learn to accept that people are gonna view me as less than the masculine man because I'm working to serve my wife and to be honest my my relationship. And I got

happier when I did that. I was accountable to know what it was going to be because at this point, I'm not serving all the other people in my marriage. I'm not serving what their expectations are of me. I'm serving this woman. And for me, it was a lot of unlearning of things that I thought needed to exist in a relationship, thought needed to happen in a relationship, looking at relationships around me and saying, oh, I don't want to be like them or them over there, and

not so much. I had to unlearn a lot to then be able to be more tuned into my husband and just realized that at the end of the day, we have to lay next to each other at night, forget what everybody else says, like literally literally had to come down for us to then say, you know, we

got this, your adult lanny. Because I've learned some things, especially I've learned, you know, at least how we communicate, and also understanding that it's not what I say or how I say, it's understanding how she's going to receive it, regardless of what the messages. That's one thing I have never thought about until today. So thank you. Yes, it was such a pleasure chatting with you. I feel like

we should have you back on a future episode. So many other things, making your resume and things that we've scratched the surface with you that we can always talk about some more. So we'd love to have you back. Thank you so much for your time today. Tell everybody where they can find you your Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, websites. My Instagram is at de Lana's Immerment Therapy and I have a website also, or you can look at my

services Delna's Enferment Therapy Dot. All right, So we decided to keep Delna around for our listener letters segment because you know, I like to be nosey and meeting all

y'all business. But I figured, once we have an expert in the house today, we might as well lean on her expertise and see if she can give us some coins, some some some jam right now, Okay, so I'm gonna go ahead and read um the first one de Lena for you, And this is from a listener that says I'm a huge fan of both of you, and you guys are truly an inspiration. Thank you. I'm writing you guys for advice, even if you don't mention it on your podcast. I would just love to have your honest feedback.

I've been with my boyfriend going on eight years. We have a four year old daughter. I just recently found out my boyfriend has been cheating on me for two years with a girl from his job. He never told me she did. When he finally decided to end things with her, he stated that there was reasons for him cheating, such as the lack of sex, me not cooking as much, not asking him how his day was, and simply just

showing concern. At that time, we had just moved into an apartment together, our daughter was one, and I was trying to balance everything. Most importantly, he wasn't helping me around the house, giving me the attention or companionship. I felt like things were being forced. I have never cheated on this man, and I'm truly heartbroken from the situation. He told me pieces of the story. But I feel like he doesn't want to tell me everything, even though I asked him to be to tell me the whole truth,

just to assist in my healing process. What advice can you guys give me on moving forward? Oh? Yeah, that work? Love is something else. Um, we we get listening to let us like this all the time, just like it's like the same story in every relationship. So if we listen to the story, and it fits right into the

things that we've talked about today. And it's that neither one of them knew their responsibility and the relationship even though they had been in the relationship and we're making babies right so Um, she was overwhelmed, um, and he wasn't supportive. That's you know, the way she presents it. What I want to talk about infidelibility is that it is not her fault that he at this relationship with the other woman. It is how he works out his insecurity,

his inferiority complex within himself. So it's okay to not feel that you're getting what you need in a relationship, that's fine, But to work that out outside of the relationship where you can get validation is his problem. It is not an indication of her not being good enough in the relationship. It's him not feeling good enough, So him seeking outside of himself, him being out of integrity, out of character, out of his promise, right out of

his commitment. That is something that he has to work out. I'm sure in the past sex and attention has made him feel whole. That's why we have to be accountable for our own healing and our own wholeness right, and our own self actualization, so that we don't have to get it from other people, not even our partners, right, we have to giv it to ourselves and then again participate in the relationship ship with a healed or whole

self or working on whole in itself. And so how she moves forward, if she continues it's going to stay in the relationship, he has to do his work, Like if she's gonna stay well, he has to maybe talk to her therapist about his um need for validation and how he has sought it out in the past and how he is going to curb that currently. And if she's gonna stay in relationship, she has to take care of herself just to love herself, develop a self love practice so that she can look in the mirror and

being integrity with herself. Does that make sense? That makes sense. It makes sense. And a lot of times with these, with these scenarios, it's always the same thing. These two people, like you said, got into a relationship and there was no complete contract on what was decided on who was going to provide what or who was going to do what for whom. One person starts to lack because they feel overwhelmed, so they stopped doing something. The other one

stops doing. Then they they're no longer intimate with each other, and then one person seeks outside forces to feel as if they wanted to, you know, they can vie a hole again. And and to be honest, when we look at these, it's not always a man and woman thing. It's been it's vice versa sometimes, like I've I've had I've had a homeboy. I'm not going to out him at all, but his wife cheated on him. And he

was just like, bro, you know what I'm saying. I I provide, I do this, I do that, I go in and out of the house and make sure we have everything. And she stepped out, and I said to him, being a man's accountable. I said, what were you not doing that? She felt she had to step out and he was like, what do you What do you mean I provide I do? I said, Okay, when's the last time you hugged your wife? When's the last time you've

kissed your wife? When's the last time you've asked her what she wants to do and took her to do something she wants to do? And he was like, I was too busy trying to do all these other things. I said, yeah, you were doing all these other things that you wanted to do to feel like you were a man in the house and not doing anything that she needed. And she stepped out, and she won't stepping out absolutely, and she stepped out for the exact reasons you said. She felt like she wanted to feel like

someone wanted her again. She needed validation, she thought, and then she admitted to him, I thought you were cheating, So I cheated. You know what's powerful about it? You can step out or you can step in. I like that. I like that I'm just existing and allowing things to happen because leaning into the relationship. That's why I laying into it. This is what I need. This is what I'm looking for. These are Can we make some agreements? Can we create a structure? Is the relationship more important

than my individual concerns? If my individual's concerns become more important than the unity of the universe of the relationship, I'm going to do what the hell I want to do. But if I remember that the relationship is important, more important than my individual need in the moment because it's temporary, right, then then I will lean into the relationship and I will be able to be influenced by you, and I will be open right hopefully you will be open to

be influenced by me. Step you can step out and step out, or you could step in like I like that, you can step by the step because that's that's literally what me and Codeine decided to do, because we both had our transgressions and at that point it was like, Okay, are we gonna go out this way or am I gonna focus more on this person right here? And ever since we decided to do that, things have been like

it's been it's been up. Wow, that's you. We don't even have time for another list, But I honestly feel like the second listener letter would probably be the same thing a similar situation. What's your points were was so small? You were going to say something ahead, Lana, I was thinking about it's something in that letter that that she asked, UM, go ahead, I don't know. Can you see what she asked? Um? Was it a question she asked or was it him?

Him describing what was the room was wrong? She wanted him to give details about everything. That. Yes, that's it, that's it. She don't need the details. It's none of her business. It's it's irrelevant. I think people need to hear that too, because they're hearing the details. It's torture. There are glutton for punishment, and they're looking for the

points where they were not good enough. Remember everybody's inferiority complex was built between age five prist Well, so she's looking for the details of where she's not good enough because she thinks it's her fault that he did it. Uh. So she feels like if she if he tells the details, it's like, oh she did that. Shoot, I wasn't doing that. So they were for deficit there ah, Now the deficit

within him. That's that's important too, Like you can hold your partner accountable without having to punish them with all the details like that, like to be honest, like you don't have to say, well you you weren't doing all of this, that's why I did this. No, let's let's hold ourselves accountable. Yes I stepped out or yes you step doubt how do we get to that point because it's never a one person thing. It's always a collective thing for people to get to a point. Yes, yeah,

it's always collective. And really each other are feeding off of each other's inferiority and insecurity. I have to develop security in myself. I have to be a safe person emotionally and then I can be a safe person physically. In the relationship, I can come to you when I you know, and when when I don't feel like we're in our roles. I can come to you when I feel disconnected from you, as opposed to finding connection in

other places, she said. She said people are constantly Yes, people are constantly feeding off of each other's insecurities and looking to feed their own insecurities. In the minute their insecurity isn't fair, they just go elsewhere. That's seems like the dating process. Yeah, that that seems like the dating process. I'm insecure about this. Let me find someone who's gonna feed that aspect of me, and the minute they don't, I'm gone. But no one is responsible. But that that

sounded like me when we first were dating. We just recently talked about this on an interview, and I talked about so many things that I was dating with my ego. I was dating with my ego and trying to feed myself because I wasn't sure about myself. And when we started dating, I was expecting Kay to do all these things to make me feel better, and every time she didn't do it, I felt like, Oh, she doesn't love me enough. Meanwhile, we were you know, year old kids

who talk about knowing somebody else. You know, Okay, so I want I want to leave you with this, and this is earlier. I stated that the world's love songs Disney have told us that someone's gonna come into our life and gonna meet our needs. But children who did not get their emotional needs met become adolescents who didn't get their emotional needs met become adults that didn't get their emotional needs met. And I'm here to say that there is no other adult on the planet that has

the assignment of needing any adults emotional needs. It is the individual's responsibility to meet their emotional needs. Now your physical needs and you know I need your help, honey, and you know I need you to hug me all these things. That's different, but your emotional needs must be met by you. There's no the parenting is done in your life. You if you if there's some weaknesses or there's some breaking down and your emotional needs, you have

to yourself effectively. That's accountability. And then you bring that version of yourself to a relationship, and the relationship will show you the new areas in which you need to heal. That's the purpose of relationships. They're gonna mirror for you what you think and believe, and you take responsibility individually the things that have come up because the relationship is more important. Wow, she you really do a great job of articulating things that you feel that you don't know

how to say. Well, she's a homeless therapist. And let me scroll back up. I definitely feel a whole lot better and I didn't even know I had a problem coming in here. We appreciate you so much and we know we have to let you go because good. But we thank you so much and we have to have you back home. Yeah, and we hope that people really tune in and listen to some of the advice that you've given to me. I think it's very sound advice for people who are aware that they do want to

exist in a relationship. Because there are people who decide, you know, what, relationships aren't for me, and I respect that. At least you know you want to be single and and mingling for the rest of your life. That's all good. But it's the people who aspire to being a relationship or who are in relationships that I think will definitely get some some really good, valuable information. And so thank you again, thank you for sitting with us and all

the best. Okay, So, if you'd like to be featured as our listener letter or one of our listener letters, email us at dead as Advice at gmail dot com. That's D E A D A S S A D V I C at gmail dot com. All right, moment of truth time, I know what mine is. The moment of truth. Moment of truth. First of all, I want to apologize publicly for screaming at you that day when me and Jackson walked in the house, and I apologize for my frustration and raising my voice because, like you said,

sometimes I'm not aware of my tone. Um. But just so the record shows, I spoke to my son immediately after everything happened, and we were able to reconcile, and I was able to speak to him about how he felt about everything, and I made sure that he knew that I wasn't coming from a place of a disappointment or a place of being upset, but I was just more so concerned, and me being his mom, I need to hold myself responsible to for putting him in situations

where he could be at harm. That being said, my kids are never leaving the house ever again. Life should go back to my mode. Nobody's coming over either nobody. Everybody will come over now that we move, But now keep the same energy ILL kept when I lived in Brooklyn for ten years. She's gonna bubble wrap all the kids. That being said, I will be my moment of truth.

Is this Accountability of course starts with yourself, right. You gotta be accountable, and that's fine, but you also have to know when you're in a relationship, when you're trying to help your partner be accountable that they have past traumas that may affect your message no matter how it's delivered. So it doesn't matter if I'm screaming, it doesn't matter if I'm talking softly, it doesn't matter if I'm being direct.

If you have past traumas, that's going to affect the way my message is delivered to you, You're always going to feel away. And listening to Delena made me realize that that's valid, Like you are entitled to feel that way, and my message is going to be what it is and you're gonna take it however you want to take it because you brought that with the relationship. So my moment of truth is understanding that your partner it's going to receive what it is you're giving to them no

matter how you say it. That's called you felt that to the core. I did, because I've tried all the approaches and don't none of them work. No matter what I say, how I say it, I always get the neck,

the snap all that. I guess. My moment of truth kind of stemming from from yours, is not blaming or allowing the way I was raised or past generational traumas for example, to dictate how I exist in a space with you now, in my relationship with other relationships that I exist in, because I also to need to hold myself accountable and not place blame on other aspects of my life, um that may contribute to who I am now.

So that being said, making sure that I say, Conneine, you may have been raised this way or you may have not been encouraged to do this as a child. However, you, being a grown woman, should know that you owe it to yourself and the other party in this relationship to be accountable, to not always place blame, to be willing to be emotionally malleable, as we've been saying today. So that's part of it. And I still like this little

term that um Delana said. If you're on the verge of stepping out, step in, you know, step in leading into those relationships more so you can see, um where there's not necessarily a deficit, but there's a way for you to be accountable. So that I appreciate your moment of truth. Thank you, You're welcome, but I feel like

you're looking at me funny. Be sure to find us on social media at dead As to podcasts, y'all know where to find me, Caine, I am, and you can find me in my house because you're not going nowhere and nobody coming either. I'm gonna let the kids out though, because they need to breathe. They can't be in here with the two of us holding time in the backyard. I am devout and if you're listening to Apple Podcasts,

be sure to rate, review, and subscribe. Dead Ass is a production of I Heart Media podcast Network and is produced by the Norapinia and Triple Follow the podcast on social media at dead as to podcasts and never miss a Thing.