Learning Your Attachment Style with Delena Zimmerman

thing to mention, we're married. We are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of a millennium married couple. Dead ass is the term that we say every day. So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts, the truth, the whole truth, and I think about the truth. Were about to take pillow talk to a whole new level. Dead ass starts right now. It's a very recent story. It is dealing

with with Jackson. Okay, we're outside practicing basketball as we always do, and this is full transparency. Here. I am preparing my son for life. Outside of these walls. And I remember when I was playing sports, I used to get screamed, that pushed, that curse that like your coach wants to get everything out of you. But they also created adversity of practice so that the games are never too much. So when we're training, I'm going through the

same process. I'm screaming, I'm cursing, I'm holleran, I'm I'm pushing him, I'm doucing everything. And I remember he got through the practice and at the end of the practice, Um, he had like tears in his eyes. And I was like, hey, come talk to me, it's the matter, and he's just like, um, you want to cry And he was just like yeah, And I was like why. He's like, you know, you just you know. He was really really hard on me. And we had a conversation for about an hour and

a half. The conversation was longer than the training session, and I tried to explain to him that I am preparing him for when he goes to his first high school practice that no matter what the coach says, no matter what the fans say, no matter what your teammates say, you'll have the mental fortitude to push through and focus on what the goal is. But the only way I compare you for that is to kind of simulate that type of environment here so you learn how to go

through it. And we always finished the practice with a hug. You don't want me to kiss him no more. Before used to hug him, kiss him on the top of the head, tell him I love him, But now I hug him. I tell him no kiss, right, and he's like, no, no kiss, And I still tell him I love him. But it made me realize how my interactions with my son every single day are going to frame who he

is and how he responds to people in life. It also showed me that he does have the mental fortitude to get through a practice, but at the end he still needed that affirmation from me that everything was okay, because he was like, I was afraid that you were mad at me, m hm. And I was just like, I'm not mad, I'm just pushing you, so what it you know, of course it hurts people don't realize this. As a dad, you know, when your parents say it's

gonna hurt me more than to hurt you. It hurts me to scream and curse and push him when he's being lazy and just be on top of him. But I feel like it's necessary, you know, And we talk about this all the time. I'm never going to be the parent that people want me to be on social media because I don't want to be a detriment to my children. So I'm going to be the parent that I have to be so they'll never see that side

of me on social media. But on the podcast, I can at least tell stories about how I truly parent, and um, just looking in his eyes at the end and seeing the happiness at the end, and after going through all that, and then when I'm walking upstairs, him jumping on my bank and holding me was affirmation from me that he knows that his dad loves He ain't gonna kiss you, No, he's not. Gonnas's over kisses anymore, but just just so you know, I get kisses still,

you do, mind, And I love that. So I had a couple of songs that were floating through my head. I actually told you about one, and I just thought of another one because karaoke's on you today. Just came back out with a song that I started putting on and it was cute because it's like It just makes

me think of my boys and stuff like that. But also since we're talking about attachment styles and how when our children are babies up to eighteen months old is when we're really setting the tone for what their attachment style is gonna be. Like, it made me think of this song by Adele and I always you always these people who have like the range of God sing because I always have the best songs. So what I'm gonna do is I'm not gonna do my girl Adele a

disservice this moment. I'm going to speak her lyrics today like it's a poem. All right, my little love, I see your eyes widen like the ocean when you look at me, so full of my emotions. I find it hard to be here. Sincerely, I know you feel lost. It's completely my fault or it's my fault completely tell me you love me. I love you a million percent. So like just little things like that, it makes me think the word of the day from k K. We

heard what you say, Bay, but think about it. It just makes me think about like how you look at this child who has wide eyes that look at you with this loving relationship, and sometimes that child can be lost, and it's our fault because we're just as lost and we're just trying to figure this sh it out. But you know what, our guest today is going to help us with a little insight into these attachment styles so we can get ourselves together as parents and so we

can start to break these cycles. Alright, So let's take a quick break and then come back with the guests. All right. So one thing we're gonna do on dead Ass with Caninia de Valleys. If we have a good time with the guests, we're gonna bring that person back, all right. So this person needs little introduction because I feel like she was so impactful the last time we had her on that people have been asking we need a little bit more loving from Mr de Lana. So

we have back for a season seven. Delana Zimmerman. Hello, Hi, how are you? How are you great? I'm glad to hear that. I mean another year, but we all still still need I think in the new year, some help, a little loving on and we felt like you would be the perfect person to have back on to talk about attachments styles. Now we're going to need some help with this because I was just now finally catching onto the love languages, and now there's something else that we

have to start thinking about it a lot. And I think it just makes sense because I think we all know someone who is a bit clingy in relationships, right, someone who gets very nervous about distance or always needs to be up under their partner. I joke and say to Devour sometimes, Delna, that sometimes I just wish I could be like under that first layer of skin, Like I just want to be in your skin sometimes, and the other times I'm just like far away. She don't

be joking, she'd be serious. Every time I'm being ready to go, she's like, so, so where are we going? Are we going together? Are going nowhere? I'm going to the bathroom. I'm coming with you. Or you might just know someone who seems to be more careless when it comes to relationships, right, They might quickly move from one relationship to another. Well, what if we told you that these characteristics are developed by a person as young as

eighteen months old? Yikes? Now we have, as you know, four boys, right, Delena, So three of them already far gone. If we're looking at eighteen months where we have hope with Dakota, our news baby, so attachment styles are a person's specific way of relating to others in relationships. Right, A person's attachment style is shaped and developed an early childhood and our thought to mirror the relationships so we've

had with our caregivers as children and infants. So today we're gonna talk to Delena Zimmom and more about the specific attachment styles, what they are, and how we can use them to build maintain healthy relationships with ourselves and with others. So, Delena, how are you? I'm great and I'm so happy we're having this conversation. I agree, I agree, So let's dive right in. Um, what are these specific attachment styles, how are they developed, and how do they

show up in relationships? You can unpack that for us. Well, that's a lot. So let's just think about you said, Um, it starts in childhood, right, it starts in infancy, and although we were there, we don't have the exact memory of it, right, So, but it shaped us and so UM, I think when we become a certain age, we don't really think of ourselves as an infant anymore, that we

actually pass through that phase. But if you think about it, there were exchanges and transactions of attachment, there was attachment behavior, there were hugs and infant needs, and an infant um primarily like um, instinctually knows that its needs are going

to be met. However, if you're in an environment or you have a primary caregiver that doesn't have the capacity to meet your need or maybe distracted or insensitive or dropped for that matter, and doesn't have the ability to meet the needs of the child, the child becomes helpless and hopeless. Rage occurs in the infant, and the infant draws the conclusion that I'm not good, my mother is

not good, and I'm not safe. And so actually, in the first year of life, first eighteen months of life, the child develops its trust or mistrust of its environment. So just kind of hold that for a minute, just think about that. And people who had who have insecure attachments and their childhood often pass it on to their children. Mm hm. So let's just I just want to start

their foundationally mm hmmm. Right, So pretty much what you're saying is it's our responsibility as parents in the first eighteen months to teach our children that it's okay to trust people and trust themselves. And the only way to do that is to meet their needs. So culturally, sometimes children don't get their needs met because of let's say economic situations. I can't have a spoiled baby, so I let the baby learn how to cry it out. And I was thinking of that or how that correlates to it.

Or you think about the maternity leave that women are given in America six weeks most places, So in six weeks, what kind of relationship are you developing with your baby when you may have to then put this baby in daycare or have this baby cared for by a nanny or babysitter or family member. So that really just thinks about how impactful that time is. How do you feel

about that cry it out real quick? Because we're kind of at that phase only it right now, in this moment where we're debating on the whole sleep training and when that comes into past, when that should happen. What are your thoughts on that. It's a balancing act. You know, there's no one answer um, soothing the child without picking the child up is one thing you can do as well, right so maybe patting the back acknowledging. I know you

feel restless right now. I know you're uncomfortable because if the child is fit and the child is dry, and the child just you know, and maybe there it requires cuddling, and you love and hug and secure the child. There's that word security, right, You secure the child and then you give the child your opportunity to learn a self suit mhm. You know what's funny. I just saw a meme the other day that talked about how from slavery there was no mental health concerns about slaves after you

release them. After Jim Crow South. If you think about all of the abandonment issues that people had developed through our culture, from being ripped from their parents and being forced to cry it out or dealing with violence or pain as a way to teach lessons, it kind of makes you realize how we as a culture have continued to be sick because of all of these you know, abandonment issues that we then passed down to the next generation because that's all we know. Am I Right? You

are right? Much of what happens culturally has a lot to do with the descendants of the enslaved. No, we just take one attachment insecure attachment style, which to the point you're making devout is called dismissive or avoid it. It's an insecure attachment. So if you were raised to be strong and move on, grow up, deal with it. If that's sort of like your family can happen capacity for emotion, whether it was good emotion or negative emotion,

you were taught to stuff it. That individual grows up not feeling u that they that they're feelings matter, that they can trust the environment, that they can trust the family with their emotions, so they learn how to stuff it. What does this person look like as an adult? Oftentimes they're in control, they're confident, they do well in the world. They have, you know, lots of friends and their social

and they have lots of lovers. When it's time to connect, when it's time to become intimate and vulnerable, they start backing off. They start getting annoyed and agitated by your breathing and you know the color of your finger nails, you know that right? Wow? So that was which one which starts out as a child, they call it avoided and child attachment, But as you become an adult, as becomes more it's called dismissive a void. Wow. You know what's funny that that sounds like how we raise our

young men like That's how I was raised too. You know, no one can see you be hurt. You don't cry. You know, if you have an issue, you learn how To's a thing I tell I tell us to my boys all the time. You have to learn how to self soothe. You know. We we talk about sharing our emotions, but you don't realize how some of the things that you have learned growing up can create those attributes. Because a lot of things you just described described how I was when we first met a lot of friends. I

was never into just being with one woman. It was always a bunch of people. And the minute I got close with someone, it was like all right, onto the next you know. But but that goes back to being raised to take my feelings, keep it inside, don't share my feelings with anybody else, you know. And that took a turn when I came along and he was like, oh, she's the one. That's how a romantic relationship can. Then maybe if it's the right person or the right timing,

does that affect how your attachment style changes? Well with if we just take this one in particular, the person thinks highly of themselves or you know, has a positive thought about themselves, but not necessarily a positive thought about other people. So when that changes, then you have the ability right to feel more secure when you connect and more with you know, being vulnerable. So he began to see that people weren't so scary. That's really what it was.

You came back when there was an opening. Ah, Now that makes that makes a lot of sense. It really does make a lot of sense because once I realized that you were going to sound crazy but worthy of my time and trust, then I started to open up and say, you know it, this isn't as bad. But remember at first when you were just like I love you and I was like thanks, I didn't know what to say. You know. I was just kind of like, oh, this is moving too fast. And I fought it for

a long time. I was like, this ain't what I want. I don't want a girlfriend. I want to be able to explore. And it wasn't until I trusted that you were of super value that I was like, let's do this. I also wonder does this or maybe Delana you can speak to this. Does that happen at maybe transitional points in people's lives, Because when I came along and we met, he was leaving high school, transitioning into college. So it's like a new environment, new goals, new things happening in life.

So are people more I guess, open to or susceptible to changing their attachment style depending on maybe a traditional transitional time in life. Potentially, I mean, you know, everyone's an individual, you know, so potentially, But some people live their whole lives and never trust. I remember we're talking about trust or mistrust that was established in the first

year of life. You're shaped that way, and so if you continue to have experiences that prove that people are untrustworthy, then it begins to affirm the mistrust concept and you never open yourself. And what makes this so painful is because this person wants to love. This person is a

human being. They want to feel connected, they want to love, but they find resources like women that they can plug into, or men that they can plug into sexually, or people who will tolerate a piece of my love, so they never get to evolve. Oh, you know, it's crazy. I've always felt like I had some abandonment issues because remember when my parents used to take us to Tennessee and

leave for eight weeks. I did not trust people because my parents would we would go to sleep at night and then wake up and my parents would be gone. And I remember, from like my earliest childhood memories waking up running out of the room and my parents not being there, and I'll be like, what where my dad? With my mom? And I remember my name have been like,

oh they left. They went back to New York, and I was like, damn, they ain't even say bye, like and I remember feeling like like you can't trust nobody, like people just leave you. But but it never resonated that it was going to make me into an adult that did that to other people you couldn't have known. But I want to add to that, people who love you leave you. Mm hmm m. That's true. People who

love you leave you. Because it was my parents. Dang, I ain't even realize how much that created the person I am today because it but it. But in a way, it did make me this independent person that I only trusted myself. It made me confident because I felt like I made through things on my own. So now I know I don't have to trust nobody. I can make it through life my own. Wait, so you say people

who love you leave you, what does that mean? Because to me, that's well, that's what That's what I told myself. People who love you leave you like that's that's how it felt like, Well damn when I ain't going nowhere is how does that work? Well, that's we talked about the change. What are the other three? Well, the other three there's only one secure attachment and it's called secure secure autonomy. So that's that's one. That's the one that's our goal. And you can change your attachment like it

can improve, you can earn higher attachment. Are all of our goals are secure attachment? Okay. The other one is preoccupied, anxious, preoccupied and this one was also called ambivalent for children. Okay, so um, this one is where there's an inconsistency with the caregiver. And so I'll give an example. So, um, when you're a little kid, maybe you touch the ash tray and I know I'm aging myself by even saying

there's an ashtray on the table. So maybe you grab the ashtray and your mom says, oh, baby, don't touch that astray. Oh she's so cute. She's growing up. She's touching you know, she's she can grab things now. And then the next week the baby has registered this love from touching the ashtray. So the baby touches the ashtray again, and this time mom says, I've told you don't touch that ashtray. Get over there, stop touching stuff. So it

creates a confusion. The child experienced praise by touching the ashtray once and then experience discipline or um, you know, like sharpness when they touched the ashtray. So the child doesn't know what they're gonna get from this parent. Now, sometimes I get praise and sometimes I get punishment for the same thing, and it creates this preoccupied person with relationships. Seeing attachment is based on this experiment they did call the strange situation. They put a child, a one year

old child in the room with the parents. The parent left the room, the mother left the room, and a stranger came into the room. And so what they did was noticed the child's interaction with the stranger, and then they noticed the child's interaction when the mother came back. And based on the child's reaction to when the mother came back was how they came up with this attachment theories. Okay, so this pretty occupied kid, it's happy to see the mother,

but does it. You know, clings to the mother but won't give her eye contact because he doesn't know what the mother is gonna do when the mother comes back. It creates a person that needs the relationship, clingy, holding on for dear life, you know, obsessed with relationship, jealous as an adult, Yeah, this is the one right here,

This is the one that's deep. But but that means that we gotta be system without children, Like we have to be consistent because if you're not consistent with children, they will always grow up in the world and be unsure, especially about relationships. Because I think about how just as a as a human being, you have a day where it's like, shoot, if the baby touches the bowl, you're

just like, oh, baby, don't touch that. And then they catch you on the wrong day or with the fuse and it's just like, damn, didn't I tell you to do that. I am guilty of that. As a parent, I'm definitely moments like that. Yeah. Remember the child has to perceive it though, So it's what the child perceives what you can't control. Yeah, So don't walk on eggshells. Just do what you gotta do. You know, you're a good enough mother and a good enough father. Everybody needs

to know that. But we also need to be have a global perspective. That's how we're impacting their children. We can't be careless. We have to be intentional and mindful or interacting with children and each other. It's a lot. That's a lot. That's a huge responsibility for human in right, which makes you wonder how people just be out here having kids and not thinking about how these kids are going to be affected by your actions. And even when you're trying your hardest to do things the right way,

it seems like you're still gonna have a misstep. And then having multiple children with multiple personalities and who register things differently, there's like a lot of style stepping that we felt like we have to do on a day to day basis with the kids. You know, the way they received information and wow, all right, so that's secure. We have anxious? Uh, then we had avoidant, was it? And then there's one more this one it's called fearful,

anxious and um and childhood is called disorganized. And so if we go back to that experiment and the mother comes back in the room and the kid just sort of freezes, it didn't fit into the categories stuff ambivalent, It didn't fit into the category of you know, preoccupied. It didn't fit there. So this child is abused. This child is emotionally abused, physically abused, are sexually abused. This child has to get its needs meant by someone that they're afraid of. And this child grows up and it's

fine in some cases. Some cases it's got a big booby you understand, and you meet them, and this person struggles to be intimate. This person struggles to be vulnerable.

They're afraid of people. Wow, man, that so this reminds me of also growing up Southern Baptists, getting your ass whipped all the time and growing up and being afraid of people because you constantly got beat But I mean you took it and stuff further, even if it's not physical abuse, getting verbally abused or even psychologically abused like that, fear everything is fear. So from the time a child is super young, if you use fear as a way to control them, even if it's not physical abuse, they

can grow up with so many different issues. They're hard to soothe. You know, Alcoholism is here, drug addiction is here. They struggle to open up. They don't feel safe in the world. They're always looking for the next negative thing to happen. Right, So how is it an adult because I know these are embedded as children, and how is it Is it possible to change this style as adult? Is it possible or do they just require everyone go see de Lena to help them change? Just why no

one got out of their childhood unscathed? No one? Right now, even the secure attached person doesn't mean that they didn't experience abandonment. So think about this. The secure person and believes they have a positive idea about themselves, they have a positive idea about other people, and they also have a positive idea about their childhood. Okay, so you can be ambivalent, you can be preoccupied, You can be these various things because of your experience in the first year

of your life. But you can also evolve and transcend and become more right because you now are taking responsibility for the issues you're causing in your life. I think the most important thing is for everybody to look at themselves as opposed to looking at the partner. What it me needs to change? Why do I keep having the same relationship with the face has changed? Right, So we have to look at ourselves and so what do I do?

What needs to happen or there needs to be You need either need to talk to somebody who you trust. You need to learn how to be honest with people as opposed to be in a victim of everything that has occurred. You're not a child anymore. However, you have an opportunity to reparent yourself. That's what therapy with at least therapy with me, that's what it teaches you to read parent yourself. So you want to have a positive outlook on yourself and on others and on your childhood.

So you can have been abandoned and still have a positive outlook on your child Learn from your experience, see how it has built resiliency and grit grit in your life. Now, be grateful for the things that you've been through, like that's how you grow into that. You know. I feel like that's been us, both of us, because I can look back at my childhood now and say I think

these things affected me negatively. But I can also look back at my childhood and say I wouldn't be who I am if I didn't go through these certain things, Like if I didn't have to if my parents both didn't have to work, and I didn't have to be dropped to my aunt wheezy house early in the morning and take the bus to school or have to take the bus back. Those things when I was younger affected

me because other people got picked up from school. But now when I look back in my life, I'm like, it made me so much more independent, you know, and it and it gave me so many different gifts. Having to rely on other people taught me how to move in different rooms. That's how I view my childhood. I never look at my childhood like my parents fucked me up, you know, I'd never looked like that. To me, it

was always thank you. But when you explain the way those attachments can affect you, I can see also how I've had issues, especially with relationships early on. That's funny that you mentioned that, because we just had this conversation actually, Delanna, with our oldest son where Devout felt like, you know what, I have to try to create some adversity in his life, and you know how am I going to be able

to do that? Because like with me, when I was younger, I used to take the bus to and from school and I used to have to pay my brother when I was eight years old and bring him home and you know, be pretty much like a parent until my parents got home. So it's funny you say that because it makes me think of like how we're trying to, um, not have our children feel like everything is going to

be handed to them. We want them, of course, to feel secure and feel loved, but how do we put some level of adversity into their lives so they know that, like this is just not the world where we have you here in this home. You're going to deal with issues in the world. Don't worry about it. They're going to grow up and be ungrateful and I don't know, don't worry about it. You know, like just lower you'll

cross that bridge. It won't be attachment though. Like the hope is that even if they are entitled and I'm grateful, that they will be able to have healthy relationships with people and feel attached to their friends, because this affects how people show up socially as well who they are. You know, um, you won't be able to curb it. I've learned that can't curve at all. You know, I have some entitled children of my own. And it's a trip. No, no,

thank you for saying that, because I'm sitting here. If you're looking at me right now, I look kind of lost. I'm sitting here trying to figure out thing. I don't want them to be avoidant. I don't want them to be fearful, you know. I want them to be secure, but I don't want them to be spoiled. And I'm like, how like, as a parent, what is the formula to raise the most perfectly secure human? And I'm trying to

think about it, and I like, I don't know. We love themselves and because if you think about them, what the preoccupied person? Right, they have a low value of themselves and a high value of others, so they feel needy and so they don't necessarily love themselves. I don't think any parent can teach their child is to have a self love practice, to love themselves and to realize that God is not in the sky far far away from them, but that God exists within them, so they

always have access to their source. M That I think that's key. I see. I feel good about that, because if there's one thing I teach my boys, it's to love themselves. I always speaks words of affirmation to them. I tell them to speak words of affirmation to themselves because I do think that that's important. So at least I know I'm doing one thing right. But but I will.

I will admit though when I walk in the room, depending on my aura, my kids look afraid, Like like if I'm being honest, when Dad walks in the room, if my voice is a certain tone, they do look up and they're just like, oh right. Or even if I in a moment maybe scolding them about something, the first thing they do is look for you, or they look at you, and I'm like, I'm not I'm talking

to you, not in it. But they're looking to see what Dad's gonna think or how Dad's going to react to them in that moment, maybe doing something then that they're not supposed to be doing. So remember, attachment affects you and then it affects your parenting. Right, so you're going to translate what you have. You can't transmit what you don't have. You can only transmit what you have.

So of course the children are going to be concerned about, right, what you learned, How did your family translate when you were in trouble. Yeah, so it's okay, it's okay. They need to know the sound of the leader, male figure in the home. They need to respect that, they need to see. That's that's important because you hear a lot of stories or things about parents who are turning into

this new wave of parenting. And we had we had someone on and they talked about soft parenting, gential parenting, and as a traditional parent, you know, growing up in the South that was spoiled, spare the rod, spoiled the child. Now, we don't hit our kids like, that's not that's not something that we we agree to subscribe to. Um. The only time I hit my kids is if one of my kids hit another one of my kids. It's like I have to show you then I'm going to protect you.

So if anybody hits anybody, y'all getting hit by daddy and retaliation. Other than that, we kind of keep our hands off our children. But the fear factor does scare me sometimes when I walk in the room, because I never wanted my kids to fear me, you know, I always wanted to respect me in my presence. But sometimes I'll talk to Jack's and he'll just be looking and I'm like, you don't ever get hit? Why are you flinching? Like?

What what is happening here? He feels, And so it's okay to stay firm with him and also to follow that firmness up with love. So you're a firm and I love you and this, but I'm not taking your ship. You understand, And we all learn self discipline and you will learn to manage yourself and govern yourself. And a person that loves themselves doesn't do that. You're teaching them principles.

I like that. See, I like that because you can't walk through life just floating around thinking everybody just gonna go with your pace. No, but you have to know you can't absolutely wow. So the word attachment in itself, Delina, just has I think for most like a stigma or can we be a negative connotation around it? So how can we view attachment as a good thing rather than a burden? Seeing as though everybody has some sort of attachment style, well everybody, every human being. We didn't come

to this planet to do this thing by ourselves. We came to this planet to be in relationship with each other. The way that I know myself and I love myself and I deliver. My purpose is based on my relationship to the world. So attachment is the same as relationship you attached to other people, whether it's whatever level it may be. But you can only attach to the cadence and the rhythm and the energy of your first year of life. So how do you want to be in

relationships with people? Relationships are synonymous connection unity, so there is no negative connotation. It's just a theory. The theorists came up with the word attachment. How does the child attached to the object the primary relationship? And so how you were attached to that mother who loved you potentially loved you right but had her own issues, but had her own attachment style will determine how you attached to your husband, your best friend, your employer, your boo, your

favorite person. Have you and this is what I asked you know, the audience is that don't you know what it feels like to be in front of the person that is your person but not have the ability to behave in a way that makes the relationship viable, sustainable, and effective. Mhm. I'm not gonna lie to you. My mind is going right now because I'm going back in my mind and thinking about all the things I've done to my kids as a parent, and I just do not want to mess my kids up. But everything you're

saying is is like it's true. You know. I do sit in front of you sometimes and wonder like, is she like this because of the where her parents were? Am I responding to her like this because of the way my parents were? And what could my parents have done differently? You know, we definitely are aware of that.

I mean, you talk about how your relationship with your mom in turn made you look for certain things and and and then it also deal you deal with me in a kind of way where you're like, well, my mom and my dad did that, or my mom did that to my dad, So my wife is not doing that to me because I saw how that hurt my dad. Like We've had many of moments like that, you know, and vice versa. Like I wasn't exposed to this because

I didn't see my parents do it. So now I had to learn how to be of service to you in that capacity because I've never seen it or experienced it. This conversation is very evolved. I want to say the fact that we're even seeking answers to our behaviors and addressing the internal um i'll say, reactions that we're having, you know, like you two can see each other. A child needs to be seen right. A child needs to feel valued. A child needs to know that their needs

will be meant. Most importantly, a child needs to have the ability to make mistakes right and learn in an environment that's safe. And so that's what you too have

to give your sons. But it sounds like that's what you two are giving each other, right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Atlanta, that you hit the nail on the head with that one so often now in our relationship years later, where my first instinct would have been to defend myself or to point out where I know Cadeen is wrong, now it's like, let me understand what she's saying, let me see even if I don't agree, if I could at least understand her perspective and try to meet her wherever

she is. That was not happening when we first got married, or even when we first dated. It was always I gotta prove that I'm right so that I can win, or at least show her that I know what I'm talking about. Now I don't really care about that it's more about let me see where where I could have been wrong and making her feel away, you know what

I'm saying. And I'm still working on that part because sometimes I feel like I need him to understand my intention when I either say something or do something or there's an action that I performed that he doesn't like, and instead of me saying, Okay, I acknowledge the way this made you feel, in turn, I'm just like, well, that's not the way I intended it. That was not what I was seeking to do. This is the first time she's admitted that like this is wow, Wow, we

had a breakthrough. How much you charge? This is the first time she's ever admitted that, I'm shocked. So my aim knowing that that is something that bothers him greatly is for me to say, all right, Conneen, this may not have been your attention, this may not have been the way that you expected this to go, but here's how it made him feel. So let's focus on that first, and then we can you can say to yourself, well girl,

that's that how you meant it. But right so, oh h that you have no idea how many years I've been trying to explain that very thing to her, Codeine, it's not about what you intended. It still made me feel away and the style. I just wondering if it's just me feeling fearful of disappointing my parents. Maybe so I always felt like everything I did I had to have a reason to explain why I did it, and I needed you to understand why I did it because

I felt like I'm not crazy in this moment. I was very well thought out and why I did what I did. But I was very fearful of disappointing my parents. Growing up in a really strict West Indian household. It's like you want to make sure that the last thing you do is disappoint your family, and not just your parents, but your extended family. And I was the first grandchild, the first niece, the first daughter, so there was this pressure I felt growing up not wanting to disappoint and

sounds preoccupied. Yeah, and uh. And it's like you strive for its self acceptance, to validation. Yeah. And you don't want to feel not good enough in those situations. You don't want him to see you in any imperfection. Mm hmm. I'm feeling your body and it's overwhelming. It's not a new feeling, it's a virtual Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely that Wow is it? Yeah? Do you have the baby crying too?

But oh my god. Yes, there's this perfection, this level of perfection that I strive to and it's almost embarrassing for me to feel like I'm not living up to that as a wife or as a mom. Wow. See, Delayne, every time you come, we have a different type of breakthrough. So this this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna have to take a quick break really quick. So I know Delna has a heart out. We have some listener letters that typically we try our best to answer to

listen letters. Since we have a professional we would were wondering if you would listen to them and try to point out what kind of attachment this person happens. So we're gonna take a quick break, come back and go through the liking a letter sounds good? It sounds good. All right, Now we're back after our break. Of course, we're with DELANEA Zimmerman. Coincidentally, my family is from down South. Their last name is Zimmerman as well. Did we have

that conversation. Yes, the Zimmerman is the ellis Is and the Zimmerman's Yeah, Black Zimmerman's Yeah from down South. We have to do some research, so here we go. Number one. I have been in a relationship for almost two years now with this amazing person. He's had some bad experiences with girls and family, which caused him to be very csed off. He doesn't like to communicate unless he gets mad, unless it all out in a bad way. We have been through so much and recently got stuck at a

wall that we need to climb over together. However, sometimes I feel as if I'm the only one willing to fight to continue this relationship. I know he is an amazing person, but all the heart and pain from the previous relationship is causing him and I had to clash more than it is allowing us to grow and build an empire. I love him, I want nothing but happiness for us, But how do I get through to him and help him understand I'm here to uplift him and

not tear him down. I just want him to understand that he is a king with or without me, and I support him no matter what, even if it means he needs to take a step back from things to figure some things out. I hope you guys are able to give me some advice on how to deal with this. Well, he sounds dismissing, right, mm hmmm, right, He's sounds like she's begging him to be intimate and vulnerable with her. I see your beauty, but he can't reciprocate to her

what she needs. She sounds like she is preoccupied. Yes, she needs it, right, she's give me the relationship, give me what you guy, give me what your guy. Make me whole. I can make you whole, And that's what it sounds like to me. And no, you can't. I have to let that reader know you cannot make this man whole. M He has to do his own work. He has to realize his own kingdom, his own kingship, in order for him to become a king. You can't create that in him. These these listener letters often sound

so similar, right. It often seems like there is a man who was unsure about how or what, and there's a woman that's like, I want him to be the king that I need him to be. How can I make him be what I need him to be? There's a lot of similarities in almost every listener letter. I'm believing that it's how we're conditioned as people. Men are raised a certain way, women are raised a certain way, and that's why when we get to this point of

trying to be intimate with each other, there's always a block. Yeah, you know, what are your thoughts on that, Delena? Well, you know, we talked a little bit about being descendants of the enslaved in America and that has created a certain conditioning. And I have to say it because I do not want us to kind of tiptoe around this thing. Right. Um the way that UM men and women had to be conditioned had so that they can survive on a

plantation in slavery. So women were taught to be independent and not necessarily show their emotion, and they were taught to protect the man because they saw the man be brutalized. So their sons they talked to, you know, make small and don't become too much, because you can be brutalized

on the plantation. They were also taught not to look to the man as the source their power, their strength, because that's why away and taken away, he's going to be destroyed, ripped in half in front of you potentially. So this conditioning kept going. If we just say the day that slaves were freed, let's just say slaves are freed on dune team, let's see. And so I'm rolling around, I've been in I've been conditioned in slavery to be

a particular way. The man has been conditioned in slavery to be a particular way because he was some slave mother's son. I'm some slave mother's daughter. And when we get together, how am I going to raise my children? How are we going to raise our children the same way we were raising were raised? Absolutely, and that hasn't been that many years ago, and so on and so on and so on. So here we are now with the same conditioning from our plantation parents. You set the

South I'm from. I have the people from the South that raised me. I picked my own m oh so you know, yeah, absolutely. So it's going to create a particular type of dismissive attachment for young men because they can't show their emotion. It's going to create sort of preoccupied attachment and dismissive attachment for women because they can't show their emotion, or if they do, they can't get

their grass around the man. It hasn't evolved and became and that's the condition that we have, Yes, the sickness that Yep, this is the first time I've ever heard about attachments, But it makes so much sense to down like, it really makes so much sense, especially when you look at society and even the issue that we're having. Even if you look at social media and you see the debates.

Even though I like to say social media is typically the loud minority, you know, the vast majority of people who are thinking, being freely and intellectual about these things are not on social media. But when you see the debates on social media, how people are responding to each other, especially in our communities, that makes sense. All of this conditioning for hundreds of years. You know, it's not going to be changed in one or two generations. Promised it

would last three hundred years. He was wrong. It's lasted four hundred. Wow. And I think we're finally acknowledging it in our generation, the millennials for sure. So we see this is why we gotta we don't even have time for another listener letter. We have to have the Lana back again because I do want to definitely, because every time you come it kind of like it's like a lightbulb goes off, you know, like it's like, what this is why I understand why people go to therapy because

it just teaches you so much about social behavior. But being a parent, I think it's important for me. This is another thing we should talk to. Parents should go to therapy in order to learn how to be yes, con communicate. Yes, absolutely, it goes my moment of thought, right, my mind, a moment of truth. Well, we're always growing towards more secure attachment. I am, M, I am so. I mean, we could talk about this for a long time. I just wanted to add one other piece. Mhm, close

us out. Security is not the responsibility of your partner. So you make me feel insecure when you do that. When you do that, it affects my insecure issues, my my abandonment issues. Like so that's what the conversations are are sounding. Security is not anyone else's responsibility. If I'm a safe person, I'm responsible to feel insecure, to feel secure in myself, and I bring my secure self two relationships,

my autonomous self to relationships. Hopefully you feel secure in yourself and you can bring that to the relationship and then we can be safe with each other. But if I'm looking for you to make me feel a particular way, I am enslaved. I am dependent, and I am going to this relationship doesn't have the ability to survive that

security is your issue. So that's the first time I've ever heard that, because we hear that about happiness, no one else can make you happy, But I've never heard anyone say no one else can make you feel secure. That's not my responsibility. That's deep. That's super deep. A word on a Wednesday. Thank you, Delna. Oh my goodness, season seven. I'm looking forward to season eight. All good stuff. Um for one more time, y'all give it up for Delane's ever man. Thank you so much for it's never

long enough with you. You absolutely taking us on and know this was like a quick hey, we have a topic, real quick, CA, can you jump on this call today? So we appreciate you, and we hope that someday we can meet in person where you based that again, Los Angeles, Los Angeles. Okay, so when we're back on the West coast and if Rona and calm down, I would love to meet you in person one day for like an

in studio session. I can just imagine the energy in that space would be amazing, because it's always amazing through zoom. So thank you again. Tell everybody where they can find you. Yeah, oh, you can find me on Instagram at Delane's Immerment Therapy also Delane's Demmerment Therapy dot com. Sounds good alright, So moment of true time that almost If you'd like to be featured as one letters, email us at dead as Advice at gmail dot com. That's d E A D A S S A D V I C E at

gmail dot com. Now on to the moment of true time? Um, do you have one moment of truth? I'm always speaking to delna Is is like enlightening because of course she's a professional of what she does, but she also makes you think about things. Right. We've heard so many people talk about happiness, right, and I'm not responsible for my spouses or my partner's happiness. One thing she said today that resonated with me is also I am not responsible

for my spouses security. That I've never heard that before, but I heard it today and it really made it resonated with me because you and I had had this conversation and our concerns every time we step out. I hope my wife is you know, my hope my wife feels comfortable with this, and learning to say that it's not up to me to make you feel comfortable. It is up to you to find comfort within yourself and

to bring that to the relationship and vice versa. Is up to me to feel comfortable and let you know, let you That's what we talk about. Remember we did a whole podcast on no rules. Remember we did a whole podcast on no rules and no obligations, And this is once again affirmation that we're on the right path to living a healthy relationship with no obligations and freedom of choice and freedom matorious is always And I love how that security then spirals into trust, like she said,

like it's hand in hand. So the more secure we are within ourselves, we're able to then trust that we're doing our parts and then we just leave it up

to our partner to do their part. Um My moment of truth is we talked about people going to therapy, going in therapy, but I never realized how vital therapy is for someone having a child, and how that can help you unpack who you are, how you were raised, and how all of those things you're now bringing to your parenting style, not just that relationship, but your parenting style, and then you shaping the way your child deals with

attachment in this world. An attachment again, like we said, not being a negative word or a stigma, but relationships. How does your child then deal with relationships based off of how you've parented them for that ragile eighteen month period, Which makes me feel like I'm going to have Dakota with me the entire time now. I can't let him cry have attachment issues about and I dont have to know you wasn't listening. We can walk on. There's a balance,

there's a balance. I should always be. They should always leave with love. Absolutely, We're always ending and leading with love,

all right, y'all? Well, find us on social media at dead ass the podcast I'm Cadine, I am and I Am Devout, And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to rate, review, and and this is a shareable episode, y'all, because everyone can find something to relate to in this and be honest with yourself and try to dissect yourself and share this with someone who you think might be able to get some gems because there were a lots

an abundance of gems Overflowing. Dead Ass is a production of I Heart Media podcast Network and is produced by Dinorapinia and Triple Follow the podcast on social media at dead to ask the podcast and never miss a thing. H