Keep Your Head Up With Dr. Imani Walker

dead ass, she's still mad about that. I'm not mad. I'm just looking at you because I don't think it's funny, and I had to find a way to convince myself that I was not the reason why he had to seek therapy. Dead ass. Hey, I'm Cadine and we're the Ellis. You may know us from posting funny videos without boy and reading each other publicly as a form of therapy. Wait, I make you need derby most days. And one more important thing to mention, we're married, Yes, sir, we are.

We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics. Things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of a millennial married couple. Dead ass is a term that we say every day. Where we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We're about to take Philow's off to a whole new level. Dead as starts now. All right, So this story time is gonna span over about ten years very quickly. All right.

I retired from the NFL. I get back. I'm stopped feeling like myself. Kadine and I are planning a wedding, but I'm at odds with not only my wife, when I'm at odds with myself. I don't know what's going on. I feel like my identity has been ripped from me. I'm no longer playing football. I want to get into TV, film, and I don't know how to do it. So when feeling lost, I felt like I was losing myself. So I had to get very depressed. Um. I used to

go into bathrooms at times. It would just be me in the bathroom by myself, and I would cry, and I would hear k at the door like yo baby, all right, and I would mask it and I would be like, yeah, I'm glad, I'm just using the bathroom, but inside I would be hurting. Fast forward nine years. We've been married nine years. I've always found ways to mask that feeling and not ever show my wife or show anybody that was going through it. Until last year we were going into the fall. It was around this

time exactly last year. I used to leave go to the gym in the morning, and I would tell K I was going to play basketball, and I started seeing a therapist. I didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell my mom, I didn't tell my dad, I didn't even tell my wife. I went and I saw a therapist for about three months, and it was the best decision I ever made in my life, best decision for our marriage. Oh child, things are going to get easy. Keeping your head up, right, job,

things are going to get easy. Yeah, oh, job things. I remember Marvin Gay used to saying to me, that's my joint right there, man. Absolutely, it was appropriate. Song. I think you got to keep your head up, man. You've got to keep your head up, man. Mental health and wellness is all about getting your head straight. I think it was particularly important that we talked about this

because within our community. There's a stigma around it, you know, and I think more and more within the past couple of years, our generation have been in tune with the fact that things have been off for a very long time. UM, some deeply rooted issues that you know, our people have been dealing with, and it's kind of just been glazed over for a while. So today we figured we bringing somebody who knows about this. This is their profession, um psychiatry,

forensic psychiatry. Actually, um dr Amani is in here talking to us today about mental health issues and ways we can kind of navigate around it and how we can extend our helping hand to someone who may be in need of some attention. So, Dr Emmani Walker, are you are going to have exactly when she started talking when we came in, I was like, she's that from the l A area. You could tell like you never lost that New York nos at all. It's amazing. I love it.

Thank you for being here with Thank you so much for having me kind of introduce yourself to our guests. Yeah. Sure, So my name is Dr Emani Walker. Um. I am a forensic psychiatrist. So I trained as a psychiatrist and then I did additional training in forensic psychiatry, which is where the law and psychiatry meet. So um ideal with a lot of patients who just got out of the state mental hospital. They're fresh out of jail. So in

l A that would be like twin Towers. And I see patients who have had issues with mental illness, and a lot of times those issues of mental illness have precluded or maybe even caused some of the crimes or really caused the crimes that they committed. So I do that. I'm also the chief medical Officer of Gateways Hospital and Mental Health Center, which is a psychiatric hospital here in Los Angeles in Echo Park. And because I'm Jamaican and I like to have all the jobs, yes, nice, so

I UM. I also am dr Imani on Married to Medicine Los Angeles, which airs on Bravo Network, is airing now or so. Season one aired and it ended it in I believe the end of April, so we are actually in pre production. We're about to start filming the next couple of Nice all the jobs, and I have other jobs too, but I don't really want to overwhelm y'all listeners. I knew you had a lot of jobs.

You from New York, from your husband and you Jamaican. Yeah, you know, you gotta at least have about That's how it is. And I need to catch up on TV because Val and I have been so out of the loop with television. So I watch You have to Be the Loud House. Three kids. I don't watch TV. Preschool prep, yeah, I'm all. I remember going to Yogabba Gabba and they were like raves like when my when my son was

that young, I was like, what I have won one? Well, okay, so he's twelve going on thirty five, but okay, but yeah, he's not like so many of these kids now, they like, as my mom would say, they lost their age paper because they don't know how they are. They think they're so grown. Yeah, he can't even do He's like, well, actually, I'm like, oh word, ok full disclosure. I can't imagine what it would have been like to have a mom who's a forensic psychiatrist, Like, you can't lie to that person.

You could probably she could. She probably read him to do that. Are you able to read bullshit? Absolutely? I'm sure, yeah, absolutely. But it's also interesting because he like we talk a lot about you know, speaking of the topic of mental health, we talk a lot about our feelings, which isn't something that I mean, I don't want to characterize all Jamaicans and people of Jamaican heritage, but we really didn't like love in a Jamaican household was done, was shown by well,

I provided these things for you. We talked about this. We talked about this in our marriage right, like right exactly, And so what do you want right right? Like oh you want to hug now? Like all right then, like all right, like okay, cool, like okay, off you go. Um. But I really when I knew when I became pregnant with my son that I wanted to break that mold. And I it's easy for people, and I always say this,

people do what they know. They don't do necessarily what's best, because what's best requires for you to sit and evaluate yourself and a lot of people don't want to do that, even me sometimes. So when I had my son, I was like, Okay, we're gonna say I love you, We're gonna give you, know, family hugs, We're gonna do all

these things. So back to my point, we talk about our feelings a lot and so we I have always loved to um, I guess examine characters and movies and books and TV shows, and so he actually asked me, like, Yo, can we see the Joker? And so we did, and I was concerned. I was like, well, wh'll go? I mean, I'm his mom. I didn't know if it was gonna

be too scary for him. But it was so dope because I got to sit with him and he was next to me and explained to him like, Yo, this is this diagnosis, that these are these symptoms, and like you know, and at the end of it, I'm not going to give anything away. But because today that was debating if we should take our son who's here waiting, We're like, should we take him to see that? I don't know what I what I would say to him before you go and after you go? Is that what

was so beautiful to me about the movie. Yeah, there's some scary parts in it, but it is the story of one person who's mentally ill and knows them mentally ill and wants the help but can't get it. And it's so sad because usually you see the reverse, someone maybe doesn't want the help or doesn't know they need the help or you or because of storytelling, you'll see someone who it's like, oh, I don't have my meds and then it just precipitously like turns into like him

and that's not what happened. And so it was so beautiful as a psychiatrist for me to see that they handled this one person won't like the joker is a real person. But what I mean, but this one character story worry the way that it really does occur in real life. It's very slow, and it can be confusing to the person that's happening to and people that are around them when you deal with severe mental illness like that, which is what I primarily won't. Yeah, I mainly only

deal with that. Of course, how do you think mental illness? Why did it become such a stigma in the black community because you hear it a lot. I mean I remember before I even thought about going there, because I'm like, I'm not doing no fucking therapy like that. My exact words was, that's white people ship. That's the first thing that came out of my mouth. And then it took me ten years and almost feeling like I was losing my mind to say, you know what, the value might

need to see somebody. So I think we really have to go back to you know, slavery. So we've we have collectively been in this country for four engine years and not only were we brought not only were we brought here and then had to hopefully live through the Middle passage. Right, So now we now we land here. Now how we're like whipped beaten. We're interacting with people who we don't have a like language. Like I'm like, we're both brown, but I don't know what you're saying.

You don't know what I'm saying. Now we're forced to speak a language. We are beaten into submission and maybe sometimes death, and we are told by the people that quote unquote care for us not to complain. Right, And so you have to look at where we started out in this country. That doesn't mean that's how it was, you know, in our homelands in Africa, whatever that may have been. But we collectively as a people, for African Americans, for African Americans, we hold trauma so close to our

heart that it becomes pathologic. That's true because you've we've been told for hundreds of years to not complain, not complain, right, not complaining white folks and also complain, like complaining about your feelings is white people should And again this is all indoctrinated into you know what our slave mass has told us, like you got you got clothes on your back, you got they're not good clothes. You got food to eat, it's not good food. You should be happy to just

be alive. But that's not that's just surviving, right, And we've been surviving for four years as of this year, and I am happy to know that in recent years, like I would say, maybe over the past three to four years, black folks, we have been talking a lot about mental health and we've really been pushing ourselves to like, yo, if you've got an issue, like go find somebody. And it's been nice to see psychologist, psychiatrists, other mental health

clinicians come up with resources to make it available. But sometimes here and here comes the critique. Right, So two things. One is that sometimes I see mental health disguised as wellness disguised is spirituality, Like yeah, you don't feel good, go take a bath? Is not you know, like you get a bath bomb not if you're clinically depressed, that's

not that's not helping. Um the other thing that I really one of the reasons why I thrust myself into the spotlight because really I'm kind of a loner and I really don't like attention like that. But I was like, you know what, like I'm just gonna put myself out there and be on a reality show. Um. But that being said, I what I'm seeing are is that we're talking about it, but we don't have now the vocabulary to be able to know, Okay, this person you're having

these symptoms. Let me see if this cluster fits into depression or maybe it fits into bipolar disorder. What what does bipolar depression look like versus clinical depression? So now is the time for us to really arm ourselves with the vocabulary and the words in order to speak what we have going on. Right, I think a lot of times two people are concerned about the words or the label. I think stig around things like that. But before we even touch on that, I want to hear a little

bit about your journey why why become a psychiatrist? Tell us about how we arrived here and about you know, what motivated you to become a mental health professional. So I I'm the product of two very in highly intelligent people.

My father, my biological father, and my mother. My biological father was essentially abandoned by his father when he was four and according to my mother, UM, he was found a like four years old, um by himself because he was collecting bottle caps to catch them in for food because his father was an alcoholic and wasn't you know this was He's from upstate New York, so this was an upstate New York. My mother is Jamaican. My my

grandmother is half Chinese and half Jamaican. So long story or we ended up tracking down our Chinese relatives, and the Chinese side of our family are the ones who have bipolar disorder, whereas the Afro Jamaican side of us that's where the anxiety comes in. So my father, I'm the I'm the I'm the child of an addict. My father was an addict, UM, and he's not any longer. He was an engineer and he's still an engineer, and

he's doing really well for himself. But when Crack came on the scene, you know, right, it was hit hard, It hit hard, and it was not taking it's taking everybody my prisoner, right exactly. And my mother's brother or my uncle. He had drug issues as well. So even though I'm an only child, my mother at various points in my life and my during my upbringing took care of my three cousins, so I was never really like, yes, I'm the only child, but I'm I have like everybody,

everybody every uh West Indian slash right. So the other side of it is that my grandmother, who is Jamaican, I didn't realize until maybe a few years ago, and I just kind of sat and thought about, you know how she used to behave I'm like, oh, grandma was bipolar. Like she would go from super chill and like love and then all of a sudden she would like flip out like I mean but like snap, like yo, like why are you throwing things at us? And then she would be like all right, and it was like anything

is fine, right right. And you know what's funny, growing up in the black house, you just say, oh, that's just a black that's just her. Because my grandmother's um she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, which we figured out now speaking to my aunt, was that my grandmother was definitely clinically bipolar. Same thing. She would be perfectly fine will everything be fine and then just be like really down And if you come in here she spats out, you'd be like, what what happened in the last five minutes?

No one said anything to you, And I honestly just thoughts, and I thought that that's just how black grandmothers are, exactly what I thought me too. And it wasn't until one of my other relatives was actually clinically diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And I know, all this is genetic, right, So I'm like trying to figure it out because family history, like when I see a patient, is really important. So I'm like, yo, like what's going on? And then I was like, hold on, grandma's bipolar. Um I and I

will freely admit I have anxiety and depression. I had a series of panic attacks over the past two weeks, like I will, I will claim it, I will say it. And is that like a chemical imbalance or yeah, it's a chemical imbalance. No one really knows why panic occurs when it happens. What what what we do know or what we believe is happening, is that there was a

stressor like a stressful situation. So I'll use myself an example that that never I didn't deal with properly, and then my brain decides, let's freak out now that that event was like a catalyst for it, but it may not happen in that moment, right, and so that's why it's so important. And then I'll get back to why it became a psychiatrist. But that's why it's so important

for us to deal with our issues pretty much. Not I know you can't always deal with issues right then and there, but it's important to deal with your issues period because they will they like the reckoning is coming. I learned that from my psychiatrist that Cadine gets she's so jealous even now, the fact that I didn't tell her that I went to see a psychiatrist, she gets

so mad at me. I'm over that now that in that moment though, because I felt like his problems were like my problems, which is which is what I don't understand that. But for me, I just I was feeling like I need to do something for myself. I did not feel like myself. I didn't want to tell nobody because I didn't want to have to explain it. And then what I didn't want was for her to feel like I made my husband have to see a psychiatrist,

you know what I'm saying. I thought we spoke about everything what happened, right, and that's what I was worried about. So I went and saw on my own. But one of the first things that I've learned from was dealing with things in real time. Yeah, it's it's because I don't and I don't a lot of times because I'm a doctor, right, and I mean, being from New York,

I'm like, nothing is scam me, so whatever. And but apparently there are things that I don't realize are bothering me because I've built up such a defense, right, a tolerance like I mean not like at this point, nothing like if you grew up in the eighties and nineties in New York, not like whatever, like you want to bust the train. We see mentally ill people every day on the train, and it's normal to us. It's just normal, like the people screaming and grabbing stuff and throwing stuff,

and you don't even blink anymore. You're just like, Okay, this is the a train, right, right exactly. But one of the main reasons why I became a psychiatrist is because so we were talking a little while ago, like we're all from New York, and I grew up on a hundred nineteenth street and Lenox, which was different than a hundred eighteen and I'm different from d Like it was like going like I never went on those blocks, and I was like, I don't know nobody, Like the

geography was different, just like what's going on? But on one nineteenth, like that was our community. And so whether you were gainfully employed, whether you were a whine or whether you were crackhead, like we all everybody knew each other. Everybody took care of each other. If my right, everybody looked out like I remember one time. This was when I was older and my car got told and like you know, like older Poppy was like yo, like your car got told like earlier, right, like your car got told.

Like I try to stop them, but whatever whatever um crackheads hood elves like very I mean, that's not what they know. That's what they are elves. They will do anything for anywhere between two and five dollars and anything, and it's like they know that. It's like they tapped into everybody's house. So you could be thinking to yourself, like man, I really wish I had it, and they just pop up like I got it right here, I

have I got you exactly. So I just when when I did my residency program, I was at first I went to Temple University in Philadelphia, and then I transferred out here to Harbor U c l A. Those are pretty much hospitals that um serve like the inner city, and I just basically felt like I had found my calling because I got to see black and brown folks.

I got to see, like, I mean, it was different because in New York it's like it's you know, West Indians and Caribbeans, and especially if you're dealing with like people who speak Spanish, I hear it's different Central America him mostly so. And I still don't know Spanish. I only know like bodega Spanish, which I'm not going to repeat here, wish right um. But I felt like I really could make the biggest difference with people who society

didn't care about. And those were the people I grew up around, like right, like who cares about a crackhead? Like we did? No one else did. And so when a lot of my colleagues went off to you know, like more cushier positions. I not only wanted to stay with the folks that looked like me, but I kind of doubled down and was like, you know what, I'm gonna work with, like people who are in prison and people who are incarcerated, because unfortunately, we're systemically disproportionately, you know,

unfairly but sometimes fairly. I'm not I'm not gonna everybody's right, everybody's innocent, but I wanted to deal with the people who society not only forgot, but we're afraid of. But I do have a question because this is what I fear, and this is what I've seen working in the inner cities as well. It's called the school to prison pipeline. And for young black boys in particular, they're quick to

label young black boys. And I've heard a lot of moms say today, boys, you know, don't be acting crazy. You know, don't be acting crazy because if they label you, I can't help you. And I hear that all the time. And these moms are single moms. I'm a single moms, and their boys are dealing with whatever issues and sometimes it may not even be mental illness. Some of them just may have behavioral issues because dad's not around. But the first thing that happens is the label a d D,

A d h D. You need to get medicated. And then once they get medicated, I've noticed that if they have an issue, the police are called immediately and once they were arrested as young as six or seven years old. Now you're in the system. Now you're in special ed. And for my brother, my brother works in the District seventy school in Brooklyn, which is where a lot of the special kids go or alternative schools where a lot of kids who come out of prison or come out

of roup poemes go to. The school majority was labeled as specially at kids young and could not get that label off even if they were fine after that. Like how does the parents navigate if you have a childhood you think may have issues, Because that's what I fear as a dad with three black boys, I don't want my boys to have a label. Labels are very important, like you said, and when it and when it comes to kids who feel like they don't have like they don't have anybody to talk to, and it may not

be their fault. Their mother might be working three or four jobs, like the lights, that's what that That's what I dealt with at Prototype and I first started Pope. Of the boys were with single moms, and these were not you know the stigma of the single mom who don't know what she's doing. She's out here chasing all of these men. No, I'm talking about educated black single

moms with three four jobs. They have different kids, or they have two to three kids, and they're trying to balance get to this practice, get to that like this, and they may only see their kids maybe two hours a day if that, in the morning, getting them ready, and then at night to make sure everybody's in the bed before she goes out to her job again to

work the midnight shift. And I watched this and so many of these boys when I speak to them, they oh, yeah, I was diagnosed early with Okay, so let me let me talk about that a little bit too. So recently, I was in Baltimore. This was I think two weekends ago, and actually so myself and my mother went to go speak at a gala that was um benefiting a a school out there called Keys and Powers. And it was so awesome to see this school had kids, all black kids.

It's Baltimore, and they had two psychiatrists on staff who were there like all day every day, they would do home visits. They would the kids could actually like, you know, to go tell their teacher, like I need to go speak to somebody now, and so it's like at different points during the day. I think, you know, first of all, I think that the way that just like my approach to mental health and mental wellness, especially black and brown folks, has to be different than what I was taught, which

is which was mainly by wife folks. We also have to take the initiative and change the programs that we're essentially putting our black children into your You got to consider your your population. You got to consider your audience. In this case, the audience are black boys. We as black folks, we are. Culture is just different and how we relate to each other. So that's one thing, but the one the second thing that I want to reiterate, which I've been reiterating ever since the study came out.

The CDC came out with the study, Did y'all hear about that where it showed that black fathers are actually the most they're the most involved out of everybody, And the metrics were you know, um giving them bass, doing a homework with them, cooking for them, putting them in bed. So there are single mothers absolutely. But and even though that study showed that a lot of those black fathers weren't in the home with the mother, they still weren't INVOLVD.

So I've been really really just pushing that because it's a truth. It is important. I mean, it's also important because the narrative creates. The narrative ultimately creates the laws. Exactly. It was like, if you want people to fear black men, you have to create this narrative that black men need to be feared, and then you create laws that will help people feel safer when black people are around, which is how it's how we ended up getting mass incarceration.

That's why if you smoke crack, you can get twenty five years, but if you do methanmpheta means, then you get five years. You know what I'm saying, Like, there's certain rules and laws created based on the narratives. But I'm gonna be honest. That's what made me afraid to go see a therapist, and that's what make me afraid to take my kids to see therapists because I would be afraid that they would get labeled and then end up in that prison. When he went to a therapist,

was that was your therapist black? Yes? I chose that for myself because I wanted someone that can relate to my struggle, you know, I didn't. One thing I've learned throughout life is that you really can't blame people for what they don't know, you know, like if they don't know, they really just don't know. And I learned that from one of my friends. He was, um, I don't know what the politically correct term is, but his dad was bracial. His dad was white. But I don't see, I don't know,

I don't know. Nowadays, you don't know what to say. So we were walking around King's Plaza and they were about five of us coming from football practice, and the cops pulled us over. This during the time of stopping. First cops put us with what y'all doing? No, no, no, I'm like, we ain't doing nothing, and like you can't walk in groups or five in the in the mall. So then they detained us, and they detained us and called our parents and his dad who came who was white.

It was just like, what were you doing? Right, and he was like, I wasn't doing anything. And his father legitimately said to him, so, you're telling me the cops are just gonna come and just start harassing you for no reason. And I was sitting there looking at him like another in Brooklyn. I don't think he know his son is black? Also, right, that's okay, you had sex of the black woman and made a black child. Let's just say it. And all this time passed and you

and you live in this country. I'm not surprised, but I'm just like, word, if you wouldn't you would have heard the conversation. If you you'd have been so mad. I know your mouth was open. Yeah. I was like really like do you not see what goes on? And he was just like And honestly, I feel genuinely sorry for him because he felt like he could like push your son away from that, like almost like you're not like you're not black, your dad is white. You know.

I always told you pull your pants up, do this, dude, this, And I'm just like he literally was doing noth man but but just walking around and his mom is Nigerian. Even though he was white, he's still darker than men skin, so he's more brown skin, right, So it was just like, all y'all come over here, and I was like, Wow,

his dad really don't get it. So when it came time for me to pick a doctor, I wasn't going to pick a doctor who might not get the struggles I'm talking about, because you just don't get it exactly. I recently was talking to somebody um and she was saying that she has a therapist and this woman is white and she loves a therapist, and she was like, you know, and I asked. I was like, you know,

is it a problem like with certain things? And she's like, well, you know, she's she is cognizant enough to let me finish. And if there's something that I don't understand, she doesn't understand, like I'll explain it. But for me, I'm like, look, we're paying about an hour, you know what I'm saying, Like back to the I'm like, we're paying about an hour.

Like I ain't got time to explain what the kitchen is, and that is on the back of your head, you know, like I can't, Like I don't, I ain't got time for that. Like, so let's just let's just you know, right, let's just do away with like, you know, the let's just do away with the pleasantry and let's just get

to the right. So how do we do that? How do we encourage, like you said, not wanting to characterize all Jamaicans per se, but just within our community of black folk, how do we now, say, encourage someone who you feel like may just need to speak to a therapist or maybe dealing with a mental issue. Are there any kind of um tactful ways to finess that and

suggest to somebody that they seek help. So I think that for most people, and this isn't just for people who are severely mentally, A lot of people lack what's called we call it in psychiatry insight, so they don't have a lot of insight into their mental illness. And look, I will freely admit that's me too. It's hard to

be objective with yourself, right. So I've been clearly in a state of anxiety all year and then recently had these series of panic attacks, at which point my mother was like, Yo, you gotta find a therapist like you over here whiling like this is this is ridiculous, and I'm and even in the back of my mind I'm like, I'll be all right, like I could figure this out, like Okay, things are cool now, Like I'm straight right.

But what I would say, the best thing that someone can do is just to be consistent and be persistent. Like essentially, it's like listen, like you're going through these issues, and I know it's hard for you to see them as issues, but I remember when you were like this, or I know you could be happier, and you might say that you're happy, but you're not at your best potential. And it really takes a lot of time for some people. They're like, oh word, okay, I'm gonna see a therapist then,

but that's not most of us. And you really just have to just kind of keep being persistent and they might yell at you and be like yo, leave me alone, like I'm cool, but knowing that someone has taken the time over and over again to keep telling you, like yo, I care about you. You know what I'm saying, Like I see these changes in you, like I really want for you to be the best person that you can be. That is something that's going to resonate with the person

that may need help. And it's a fine line. I feel between taking on those problems, Like I'm thinking of someone who's in a relationship with somebody and how I had to realize that this was his fight at one point and not it wasn't me. I wasn't the cause of it per se um. So how would you encourage people, particularly in relationships, to say, you know, or is it not? It's not your fault per se but you do notice this and you don't want to make it about I

don't want to make it about me. Although I did Loki feel like Dan, what was I not doing to prevent him from feeling this way? Because naturally you kind of take the onus on you if if my partner is not happy or if he's in like a slump, it's my fault or I didn't do something or did something to make that happen. So how do you encourage couples, you know, or people within relationships to just kind of not take that on them? So I'm sure you guys

have heard that. You know, when you first meet somebody, you show them your representative right, and obviously you all are not representatives, but you may be representing your you may be representing your mental wellness still because you're because you're still representing your mental wellness to yourself. And if you can't admit you have an issue, you're not admit

it to nobody else. So there are going to be I mean all kinds like I don't how old were you when you got married, So twenty seven years, almost three decades of things happen to you before y'all got married, And it didn't mean that he didn't want to talk about it with you, But he may not have even known the words to talk about it. He might may not have even known what was going on. I've been that person, like in the bathroom, like in the bathtub, just like what is wrong with me? I did not

want I knew what problems I had. I did not want to talk to her about it because I didn't want to come across as weak. I'm the man, I'm the leader. I've been the light in my family and in my community for so long. How could I then say to my wife I have a problem, because then it's like I've relinquished all my power and strength. Because my strength, as I felt like my strength is as a man, was to take on the brunt of all of my family's issues, so that my wife could be

at peace. She gave me three beautiful boys. She shouldn't have to deal with a fourth boy. So any issues I got, I should deal with on my own. That's how I felt, right, And that's the side because and I mean, and I'm gonna say as well, all respect, you don't know women like that then, because we love to take care of things. And if we know that our exactly and if we know that our man needs help, we're like, oh, yeah, I hear you. I hear you. I definitely hear you. And I'm not saying like, well,

therefore that it's you. It's not it's not your issue, it's not your problem. Societally, that's how we, Oh, I raised black man, so I admit we we talked about this all the time. I let society tell me what the American dream was supposed to be, and I fell for it hook line. And even even how when I got the let me this is exactly what happened in my life. I graduated from high school, got to college, got a degree. Boom, Oh, I'm in the NFL. I'm making money. Boom. Let me buy some stuff. I got

a girl, Let me buy a house. I got to get married. I got to prove to everybody how successful I am. Then im twin. Everybody else is ramping you up, like hyping you up to do it, And then it was lonely yo when I when I got cut, I was engaged, I had bought property, my wife was about to have a baby, and I was by myself because all those people who were like, you should be doing it,

should be doing that, they were gone. And I spent nine the first nine years I spent my marriage trying to figure it out in my own head because society also told me if I put that on my wife, then I'm weak. I gotta I gotta handle that. And it wasn't even just my society, my dad. When I watched my father deal with what he dealt with in our in our family, like he was laid off. My father only has an associate's degree, but he understands mainframeing, so he's always able to keep a job and make

really good money. So he got laid off, and he was laid off for about six months one time, and he never let my mom know how he felt or if things ever got bad. Anytime I walk in the house, Hey what's up, bro? Everything was fine? And then he used to tell me, He's like, it's not your mom's responsibility to know what goes on here. I'm the man. I have to do with this. I'll find a way. So I put that on myself because I felt because I watched my mom walking around that reads anxiety though,

because that's me. Dad breads anxiety. Because I'm gonna take a little, a little side note, and I just because I've really been trying to tell people this. We as black folks, Like, yes, I like shiny things too, okay, Like I I save up for all that stuff. It's there's a difference between wealth and being rich. I saw I forgot what what comedians said, like, oh it was Chris Rocky. He was like, the wealthy dude is the

one signing your check, right. But then on the flip side of it, rich being rich is loud and wealth is quiet. And similarly, strength to me is quiet. You don't have to like, you know, proclaim and like take on every like oh I'm cool, I got because that's going to bring anxiety. So I'm I'm guessing, almost guaranteeing that when all that stuff happened to you and you were pregnant and you know, y'all were engaged and then

you got cut. You probably were just like somewhere trembling because it was like, you know, what am I going to do? That's that's exactly That's on top of that. Not only was I trembling, but I also made poor life decisions because at this point I had no one to reach out to and I had no way to get out of this funk. So I started to make decisions that I felt like would get me out of it, and they were impulsive, impulsive decisions, and I put blame on people. And I always put blame on the people

who were the closest to me. For example, in Michigan, nobody said I want to live in Michigan, but he felt like if he wanted, if I was gonna be good impulsive decision, I had to show her that I was serious. I had to show her that I was the man. I had to show that I got it

brought at home. Then when we were struggling financially and stuff like that, I blamed her for the fact that I brought the house and I didn't even But these are the things that if I, if I would have just been open to speaking to someone, but I wasn't and not for nothing. I always say this, from fifteen to twenty you think you know everything. From twenty five you know you know everything. From twenty to thirty you start to realize, you know what. I ain't know ship

all that time. And it was until about thirty that I was like, I need to start fixing all of the things that I was doing in my twenties. And it wasn't until I saw a therapist and I started opening. Now we have arguments. Right in the past, we have argument, I'll shut down. I ain't gonna that. It ain't bonding. Now it's like, listen, baby, everything he learned from that therapist. Now he's going through like a whole series of like completely points change good that it does. Remember in the

in the in the grocery store, there's football Saturday. I like to just relax and watch football. I don't I work a whole lot. This is the one day that I don't wanna have to do nothing. We had family and guests coming over. She's like, baby, he can we go to Costcos. So now I'm in Costcos on football. Rather than getting upset, which I normally did, guy set went with her I just said, listen, can you just explain to me why we're in definitely had a therapist

voice too. I was like, don't try to hit me with that voice. I've learned from my therapist that how I asked my questions is more important than the question I asked. That's that's true. So I've learned to take I'm still getting used to that though, because when he should be saying it to me all come and stuff, I'm just like, Yeah, why are you talking to me like that? Like you're patronizing me At this moment, I'm trying to We're still trying to figure it out because

the therapy was so great for me. It made me, it made me, but husband made me a better father, better business partner. Um, I'm able to see things differently in the world because I'm able to share, you know, And you start to realize, like one of the one of the main reasons why I really want to go to therapy, it's like I'm going to be forty four in a couple of months and yeah, and and there are values that I came up with when I was like six that I still hold this day, like don't

cry crying as weak? Why who told me that nobody. It's just something that I just have internalized. It doesn't make sense, but to this day, if I shed it here, I'm just like, look what you're saying. Oh my god. Yeah, and it's six year old self looking at you, like right, like together, right, get it together. And so there are things that I'm like, look, I need to undo these

things because I can only do but so much. But I still have these like really kind of strange internalized values that I came up with when I was a kid. And frankly like because my biological father like abandoned me and my mom and so he said he had abandonment issues too, right, so he right, he couldn't talk about it, so he was like, I'm out right, but he was

also you know, had drug issues. But these are the things that I concocted, like these values I concocted when I was like seven years old, which I still have and they're dumb. Which it's crazy, this feel I can see being draining just on you too, taking on everything and people unloading onto you. So how do you refuel after this? Like, if you're going through something, how do you keep yourself from maybe not trying to like self diagnose or does that even help you to do that?

You know what? Quite honestly, I don't really take it home. Okay, yeah I can. I'm great at compartmentalizing, probably to a fault, um, But I think more so than anything that I'm just so happy to be able to help them, and I'm so happy too that they're able to share their stories with me that I'm just really, I just feel so so grateful. You've heard of people who have been in therapy forever. It's really no endpoint because life every day

is different. Thing's always come at you. So it's not like, yeah, I did it, although for some people, like when I've been in therapy was like, Okay, I'm ash, but I felt like that, Yeah, I went for three months and I felt like I'm good. Like I feel like I've I've learned some tools to manage my life right, and there may come a time where you might need to go back or or you know or not. And that's

kind of how I've dealt with therapy. But as far as unwinding, I mean, I a lot of times like I listened to I listened to a lot of music. Unfortunately in l A we don't get a lot of like reggae and dance. Fall out here girl, come by, come by a house. My neighbors are probably like, what's going on over there? We played all everything, especially bring it out here because there's no culture out here for exactly.

But I've just learned certain my coping. My coping skills are like going to sleep, getting in the bathtub, um, going to the beach, like and in l A, we take it for granted that like the beach is like, oh, it's all It's gonna be there, right. But I went to my son begged me like a a few weeks ago, like Yo, can you please take the day off? And I was like yes, So we went Yes. So we went to Venice for a couple of hours and it was just like I was like, oh my god, thank you. Yeah,

that's what I needed. So it's important to know, you know what what your coping skills are, and those are some of mine. Well before we let you go, because we can't take up all of your time today, I would love to. I'm having a great time now. I'm having a great time too. I feel like I'm actually feel like I'm in therapy right now, talking to you, but I'm asking for three tips for people dealing with

a partner that may have mental health issues. Um. I posted about mental health on my Instagram and we had tons of comments for people asking me, well, you know, I think, how how much is it? How much do you deal with until you say enough is enough? My partner is going through this, I've been trying to stick it out. What do I do? Do I get them a therapist? Do I take them with me to therapy? What do I do? What are three tips you would give someone who they think has a partner that may

be dealing with mental health issues? So I think the first thing is obviously to talk to that person. You know, you use your words, UM, explain to that person what they see and like you were saying a little while ago, it's how, especially for black folks, is how you say, because if your tone is wrong, it's like no, I'm right. First of all, you need to lower your tone. Lower

you take the base out of your boys. You always think exactly right, exactly so just you know, say, make sure that when you convey how you feel that you take on a non accusatory tone like you know what hey like, I think you might be having some issues, and I'm here to talk about them if you want to, But I just want to make sure that somebody you know who loves you dearly that I'm I'm seeing some changes and I think, you know, it might be a good idea for you to see somebody. And again, that

person may not be open to it. They might, but they might not. I like that one. So number one I got start with using your words, but in a non accusatory tone. I got that, So don't just go out there pointing stuff out like you need therapy. Number two is if the person still isn't willing to go, that might be the time to maybe bring in like a relative or intervention, but not in but like maybe you know, like I'm making this up, maybe you married to the person and you want to talk to like

their close cousin. Try a third party. Try a third party, because that because you see that person every day, and so that person who might be struggling might be like, well, you can't objectively you know what I'm saying, look at me like that. So if it's if it's another person, they could be like, you know what, I kind of feel like these are the things I'm seeing too, or or whatever. But I think it's a good idea to

go with someone the person knows before you jump in. Fine, absolutely outside and outside help, because then they might be like, nah, that's when the defense comes up, right, And so I have try a third party as a conduit, familiar familiar third party number, to try a familiar keyword their third party as a conduit. At that time, you brought my sister in to tell me I was being mean. Yeah, because I didn't want to tell you directly that you needed therapy, so I told your sisters there you go

and bushed me. But whatever, we all you know which we always get to all we mean and it's not. We just very factual and I'm very direct. Exactly sounds my tone devoutly like why you said it like that? And I'm like, I don't think I said it no kind of way Jamaican. Maybe never think alsogether. Groups. Also, look if you look like a turtle, and I'll tell you look like a turtle, Like now, you man could be honest, right, you know what you look like when

you left the house because you're start, you're moving. You won't say you know, you won't say nothing like hey, babe, you know you kind of look like a turtle. No, I'll come at able to look at this, lick at her like that to have to turn on that. All right, your money, you gotta give me one more though, one more. So we got started with using your words in a non accusatory fashion, a non accusatory tone, and then try a familiar third parties a conduit. What's the last one?

I would say the last step would at that point seek outside help. And that could mean a therapist, and it doesn't have to necessarily be a psychiatrist, because mental health clinicians can be social workers, they can be psychologists, they can be marriage and family therapists, but just someone who makes it there purpose their career purpose, let's say, to help other people through therapy. No, this is perfect money. Thank you so much, Thank you so much. This was fun.

Speaking of my mental health is often very like draining and tiresome. I feel like we had a good time today. Yeah. I definitely had a good time other than YouTube picking on me. I enjoy that's it. In fact, that's it coming speaking you know what I mean, hypothetically coming on my turnal nack, get my neck there you go, so imani if anyone wanted to find you, tell us here in your handles. If you have a website, blog page

or whatever. Sure, so I'm dr imani um. And if you want to follow me on Instagram, which is where I primarily am, it's I'm at doctor, which is d O C T O R dot Imani. I am A and I I have a website with all kinds of information. My website is doctor d O C T O R dash Imani, I am A and I dot com. We're not leaving it. You can. Actually we have to do listener letters. Do you have time to perfect nay, mind, He's gonna stick around with us. We're gonna take a

quick break, and we went to these listener letters. After we get to some ads, stay tuned. This for the record, there it is a win for the ages. Tiger Woods is one of our most inspiring sports icons. In his story, it comes with many chapters. I am deeply sorry from my irresponsible and selfish behavior, but here it is the return to glory. This is All American, a new series from Stitcher hosted by me Jordan Bell. You realized Tiger Wood doesn't know who he is best in the history

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or your favorite podcast app. Alright, so now we're back for listener letters, and we have doctor and Mommie is still in the house with us because she's gonna see if she can give her a little two cents and some advice for these people writing into us that forensic sh'd be knowing knowing for real. Alright, first question, you want to go babe? Alright, I'll read this, want to go for it. Me and my husband have been married for nine months. He lost his job. I'm gonna stay

at home mom. Our son is five months old, and I know he's feeling down unless of a man because he lost his job. Damn. We have to move back to my parents house until we get back on our feet. What are some things I can do to his spirits up in this hard time. I don't want him getting depressed. So I think the first thing to do is to just always keep the lines of communication open because as we talked about, Black men in particular, will internalize everything

and not speak up. And I know that this this person's husband may definitely be taking on a lot of guilt, may feel very ashamed. And when those two things along with depressed mood and then you have maybe this person might end up with decreased motivation. What you really want to look out for is that the person doesn't fall into a clinical depression, which doesn't mean that the person you know, what's what's the difference between just depression and

clinical depression. So being depressed, which is kind of basically a colloquial term, is like, oh, I'm sad, right, having having clinical depres russion means that you have certain symptoms depressed mood. Um, you may have poor motivation, sleep changes either sleeping too much or sleeping too little. Issues of concentration which is always going to be poor, UM, low energy like fatigue, UM, having feelings of guilt or shame,

losing interesting and usual activities. And for people when they get really really clinically depressed or really severely depressed, they might have start having feelings of having thoughts of suicide. So I'm sad, which is why it's important in this period of time for them to keep the lines of communication open because if he starts internalizing that, especially like having to move back, um move into her parents house, you know, you also might be dealing with their parents

and then her his father in law. You know, I'm that's a lot. So I would say, you know, for someone like me who I have had clinical depression, I haven't taken medication, but what I do on I do certain things on the daily to prevent these things from happening. So I work out every day, like every day, whether it's going hiking or going to the gym, because that releases serotonin into your brain and that helps keep your mood elevated to the point where you don't get depressed.

It's just important to make sure that he that that he's able to feel, know that he's loved, and know that it's not his fault because just like, look, I have clinical depression because my dad was clinically depressed. It I didn't step on a nail and got it right, right. This person lost their job, that's not his fault, right, And so it's just important for people to realize that because or his the people that are surrounding him to realize that, because if not, it starts people start to

get resentful. Uh, he's funny. Remember what we talked about. He works, she's a stay at home mom. He's gonna start to feel first, he's gonna have resentment towards herself because I can't take care of my family. I have to move back into my wife's family's parents house. Her dad is looking at me. When I when I gave my daughter to you, it was under the belief that you were going to take care of her and yourself and your child. So I know that's going to hit him.

Automatically as a man, I know it's going to hit him. One thing I would tell her to do is get on a routine of waking up, waking him up. Do the same routine you did. Why that is to remember when I was going through my moment, we used to get up together. When when I had just got back from the NFL, it was the same routine. I still got up. I had to go out and figure out what I'm gonna do. I'm not going to figure it out while I'm in Indy, while I'm in the bed,

you know what I'm saying. So I figured out I always found ways to try to make him know that he was to appreciate it to yes, exactly if he didn't feel that either, I knew for sure he was going to be like, damn, I don't have a job and I'm meking my parents my in law's house. We communicate, communicate, get him up in the morning, continue to move together like he's still working. You guys will be fine if

you're spiritual. Prey on it, and you actually may find that now that you guys have some time, like reframe it that that's also important to Like it's like, oh, you know what, Yes, you're gonna look for jobs and all that, but now we get to spend more time as a family and during this short period, right instead of just being like damn, I sucked up, Like no, like you know what, you didn't This is not your fault.

And on top of that, like now we're gonna like bond a little bit more because maybe the next job you'll be super busy and I won't be able to see you like that. So reframe it and use it for what it is about. Before we move on to the second one, get out your parents house during the day, just be there, take some walks in the park. Yeah, for sure, alright, question number two. Currently, I'm currently I'm in college in New York and my boyfriend lives in Texas.

He comes up to visit me when he has time, and I always feel bad because I'm not able to travel as much due to being in school and building my business while in school. He's very supportive and all in all that I do, but we seem to bump heads a lot when it comes to the emotional health between us. I grew up in foster care in New York and he comes from a great family, full of love,

and they've always welcomed me. I'm actually afraid of meeting them and taking that step forward because how I interact with people is very on guard and I don't know how to exist in that kind of atmosphere. My emotional health causes us to have friction a lot. And my question is, how do I explain that I'm not ready to move forward because I'm still dealing with trauma from my own family without making him or his family feel

that I'm not interested in getting to know them. I mean, she explained, it's just say right, you say what you just said right now. Part of it might be that she's afraid to say it, which which I can understand too, But I would just start with talking, talking, talk to your boyfriend and say exactly what you said, like, say exactly what right, because if she was here reading it,

I'd be like, what what you want to say? And if you're saying he comes from a great family full of love, that I feel like trying to go out

their way to make you feel more comfortable. Absolutely, And also you know, please, like whether it's through your school or elsewhere, like, get therapy because trauma, deal with that, oh my god, Like trauma is something like I say this all the time, like I can throw all the medications to somebody, but if they have trauma that is not resolved, you can do about that, right, And they're just going to keep making decisions that are like what

are you doing? Because they don't know necessarily how to trust other people and a with other people in a meaningful way. So get you get therapy and just be honest with you with a man, and you know, if he wants to tell his family that like, because she may not necessarily need to tell his family that she doesn't have to. They're still dating, So tell your man like yo, like, I'm young, I'm working on myself. I

want to get some therapy. But you know, as you know, I wasn't forced to hear I got a lot of issues. I mean, she she, you're if you're listening, you already know what to do, and you're and you also explained it so eloquently. There's really nothing for me to say. This is why we can because she just took over the listener letters done and that was that was amazing

that that's what she done. That's that's exactly sure. And if you want to be featured as one of our listener letters, email us at dead ass Advice at gmail dot com. And we're going to move into moment of truth. You know, normally dr IMMANI we do a moment of truth where we kind of what's our takeaway from this whole episode, Like what did we gather from it? What's what did we learn from this episode? Do you have

something to learn, babe? I've learned that mental health is a stigma in our community from four hundred years of the way we've survived in this country, and until we as a people unpack that acknowledge that we won't be able to move forward and feel better about mental health. So we have to as a people just understand why we are the way we are and deal with it right.

And I've got a greater understanding, and I know that there is so much value in being able to just speak about things and holding things inside is never the route to do to go, especially because that's things that have been embedded in us for so long. But there is no embarrassment around that, and people shouldn't feel embarrassed say how they feel to know that there are people out there who are professionals that can legitimately help you navigate what you've been feeling. So don't be afraid to

get some help. Can I just add a truth? This is why? Yes, So one of one of the reasons why I also there's so many reasons why I became a psychiatrist, but one of the reasons why I wanted to become a psychiatrist is because, you know, as black people collectively, we are amazing, beautiful beings and we have been able to make it this far in the world and every and every walk of life we touch. We're

still the trend setters. Were still you know, the people who are showing other people how to do things and if we can just get our mental health together. Oh my god, can you imagine? Can you we be like earth wind and fire covers, like like pyramids, you know, like shining and gold. It's exactly. It's so true. It's so true, so much. Thank you so much for all the best for season two, with your filming and all that.

Um oh goodness, such a great time it was. You gotta have you back of course, any time, anytime, just calling me. I'm always down, and plus you are from New York, you know, at the very least we can keep key. Be sure to follow us on social media. I'm Cadeine, I am and I am And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to rate, review, share, subscribe to your friends, tell your family. All that good stuff and dead Ass is a production of Stitcher. It's

produced by T Square and Dinora Penia. Our chief content Officer is Chris Bannon. Our associate producers are Kristen Torres and Trouble, our studio engineer and original music is by Brendan Burns and mixed by Andy. Christine's daughter. We'll back. I'm Drew McCarry and I'm David Roth. We have a podcast school right now. It's part of the stitchen. Ever, we're called Substraction. That's available everywhere. Getting a podcast at Stitcher, Spotify, Apple, Go.

Listen right now to the Distraction right now. It's out. Do it, please m