Everybody Got Choices

you need therapy most days. Wow. And one more important thing to mention, we're married. We are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of a millennial married couple. Dead adds is the term that we say every day. So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We're about to take pillow

talk to a whole new level. Dead as starts right now. I don't remember when this happened. I just feel like this has been like a theme in our relationship that you and I just kind of unpacked, right, But there was a momentum. It had to be recently because it was in the theater downstairs, and Kadine and I were having a discussion because we don't really like argue like that.

It's no longer arguments anymore. We have discussions. So we were having a discussion about something that happened the night prior. And I don't remember exactly what we were arguing about, because that just shows me how like unimportant it was. But I was explaining to you how I felt about it.

And every time I kept trying to explaining to you, how trying to explain to you how I felt about it, you kept saying, I don't think you should have felt that way about that, because that's not what I meant. And then I kept trying a different way to explain it. And every time I use a different analogy, because what Kadin gonna do is look at me, And every time I'm using an analogy, she's gonna look at me even more sideways, like that analogy ain't got shipped to do

with what we're talking about. But what I started realizing after giving like the fourth analogy and you're looking at me with that blankster which your eyes blinking, was like, you know what, I just got to say this. I don't have to explain to you why I feel the way I feel, but I feel a way, and I am tired of you telling me that I shouldn't feel

a way because that's not what you meant. And you were just like, I ain't never think about it like that, And I was like, yeah, it's like, you can't punch somebody in the face and then tell them it shouldn't hurt because I didn't punch you that hard because that's typically what we do. Maybe I didn't punch you. Maybe it was a love tap. What if the love tap hurt? What if you're being soft? See what I'm saying and this and that that right there is exactly how the

story went. Story done. Since we're talking about feelings today, you know what I just thought about when I thought about feelings, feelings, nothing more than feeling today. But shout out to Steve rcle Julia White. Yes, trying to forget those feelings of love. But instead, you know what, baby, I'm I'm gonna lean on you to do the opening riff, all right, because it's opening riff. Ain't nothing quite like it right. Let me uh and prepare my vocals. Yeah,

if that was a sound like that. However, don't forget to come and pick up feeling. Don't leave no pieces. You need to read. Pick up you feeling while I'm cleaning. Yo, listen, Jasmine Southerd. They're gonna make it to karaoke at least one shout out Jasmine. Yes, girl, I'm listen. But I was watching the video and I was like, dang, she really did that in the very beginning. I'm gonna try it. Listen to Jasmine, appreciate trying like I have no oxygen

coming to my brain. It was your neck musters for me, Like, don't look, but that was super cleming. She said, up feelings while I'm cleaning. Bro, Yeah, while I'm cleaning. One time I'm cleaning, it's not going in the garbage. And I don't know if you're feelings deved to be in the garbage. But you know, hey, but let's go on a quick break and come back, and we're gonna unpack how to stay out of folks feelings be right back, y'all.

All right, we're back. So let me explain to y'all a little bit about story time and what we've been going through and what we've learned to unpack over the last like this has been something like that, we've unpacked this in the last a year. Yes, but it's just crazy to me that we're still unpacking ship twenty years in.

Like that just goes to show y'all that relationships require the investment and constantly having the conversations and learning each other and expecting there to be changed and things that bothered somebody before may not bother them now or vice versa. So just know that twenty years and we're still unpacking.

So for people who feel like, man, I'm in a couple of years and she didn't really going nowhere and we're not learning anything, just make sure y'all are having those conversations that need to be had, because with that, I guess sometimes you feel like there's no progression happening. The progression may not be happening because you're not having those conversations. And so don't feel no kind of way because we're still having conversations twenty years in. I remember

exactly what the argument was about. I remember exactly now now this I'm explaining to you, how realist is we really just be having conversations on this podcast, right. It was when my mom didn't get the invite for my birthday party when were supposed to go to Jamaica, and

my mom felt away. And what happened was Codeine spoke to my brother and spoke to my father and he she told them that she was planning a birthday party for me for my I think it was seven, I remember which one it was, but we were supposed to being someone. It never happened. We just moved. She was planning, She was planning. Ultimately, my brother and my father trying to figure out what days worked for them, and through that process, neither one of them spoke to my mom.

So when I'm on the phone speaking to my mom about this is where we contested positive for COVID and I said, said, then we can't travel no more, and she said aware. And I was like, well, we're supposed to be going to Jamaica for my birthday, but now we can't go. And she said I didn't know. And I was like, how did you not know? Did you not like it was my birthday? How did you do not know? And She's like, no, one called me and talked to me about it, and she felt the way.

So I expressed to Kay like, I was like, how com you didn't call my mom? And Kay was just like, well, I called you dad, I called you bro. I figured someone relay the message. And I was just like, also to his sister, was due any day with the baby or she had just had she had just had the baby through c section, so your dad and talking to him was just like, well, you know, Tory just had the baby. I don't know. So in speaking to his dad,

I just figured, Okay, it's like a family discussion. That's happening. Your sister had just had the baby two weeks prior so having a c section. She probably needed her mom and needed the help. So I just never gave your mom the option to this side, I guess by telling her directly. Right. So Kay had her reasons for not calling my mom, and my mom felt the way about it. And when I started talking to k about it, Kay got upset and was just like, I didn't mean to

offend your mom. And I kept trying to explain to her like, just because you don't mean to offend someone doesn't mean that their feelings don't get hurt. And Kay kept saying but why would your feelings get hurt if And she kept trying to give me reasons why my mom's feelings shouldn't be hurt if her if my dad knew and my brother knew, and they were speaking on her behalf, and I was like, what are you not understanding?

I'm not saying that you did anything purposefully or you were trying to upset anyone, but your actions hurt my mom's feelings and she's entitled to feel that way. And then Kay became upset with me because she was just like, you're trying to make it seem as if I'm trying to hurt your mom. And I was like, hey, I'm not saying that you're trying to hurt my mom, and I'm not saying you're trying to hurt me. Because then I was upset because no one spoke to my mom.

And then she was like, why are you upset? I told you what I did? How could you still be upset? I told you I spoke to your family, And I'm like, hey, I don't want to be upset, but does it does it matter to me what your intentions were if my mom feel away? And now I'm i uset my mom

feels like she was left out. I'm upset, And Codeine's whole point was to tell me my mom shouldn't feel left out and I shouldn't be upset because she had reasons for doing it, And the reason why I was making this story the point of it is because no one had no ill will, no one. You didn't do anything on purpose. My dad didn't purposely leave my mom out.

My brother did not tell my mom, but my mother was still upset about being left out, feeling left out, and everybody I spoke to like that, she's your mother being your mother like, and I'm like, no, y'all gotta stop doing that. Mom didn't wake up wanting to feel left out. She felt left out. Can we at least acknowledge the fact that my mom's feelings got hurt? And can we at least acknowledge the fact that I'm upset that my mom's feelings are her? Can we not try

to discredit her feelings are mine? And after going through that whole process and unpacking it, I learned there too, Like I do the same thing to you at times, and sometimes I'll say something and I'll just be like, well, I don't know why you took it like that Because I was a joke. It was a joke, like Kenina

and I have this thing. We joke on each other a lot, right, and sometimes the joke don't land properly on the other person, and when that person feels away, you have to start to understand that just because you meant something a certain way doesn't mean it was delivered or received that way. So I understand everything. Um, you

know that was said. And then in that moment too, I made sure I think we went to New York shortly after that, once we got over COVID and everything, and I spoke to your mom directly in person, your mom and your dad together and just to clear the air because one thing that's huge for us is trying to make sure that we take accountability. So sometimes accountability

doesn't necessarily mean that you're taking blame per se. Yeah it's not blamed, but it's just saying, Man, if I would have acted differently in this moment, I'm acknowledging that I could have taken another step to make things better, but in that moment, I didn't think about it, right. So, Um, having the conversation with your mom and all of that I think my issue with yes, someone feels a way. Yes,

that may not may have been my intention. But one thing that I always do that you don't like that I do is even if I acknowledge, Okay, I understand that you're upset, you don't like when I explained to you my rationale. And to me, I feel like I have to explain my rationale if someone feels as if I've done something to either make them feel left out, hurt their feelings, or if my intentions weren't landing correctly.

I feel like it's my responsibility and out of respect to the person, to say, hey, I understand that you feel this way. I'm sorry you feel this way, but this is how I arrived at this rationale. And because I arrived at it this way, I feel like that's me taking responsibility and taking the onus for saying I might have hurt you in this moment, or something may have been misconstrued, but here is how I arrived at it. I wasn't trying to just be, you know, deceitful. I

wasn't trying to be mean. I wasn't trying to leave you out. Here's how I arrived and you'll never like that, no, no, no. The way you explained it is the more mature version of what you do or what you've done now. In past, it used to be, Yo, you didn't tell my mom. I told you Dad. Yeah, but you didn't tell my mom and the feelings got hurt. But I told you Dad. It's the growth for me. And it's like and and seriously, it's like, it's like, you didn't tell my mom. You

have a devil. If I told you Dad, they live in the same house. Why wou't you Dad just tell your mom. It's like you used to not even acknowledge the fact that that could have hurt my mom's feelings. It was just, well, I told your dad, So whatever feeling she has, she got to get over it because

I told someone in that absolutely. And one thing I've always had an issue with which we've unpacked, like we said, for having conversations for twenty years, I have a problem with accountability, or I've had problems with accountability because it's something that I've noticed, even just as an adult unpacking

things that my mom has had an issue with. It still has an issue with accountability because it's this idea and this pursuit of just trying to be perfect and never making a mistake, and that's something deep rooted and just how we were raised. But wanting to be the example, wanted to be perfect one to make sure things are done correctly. So if something does go wrong, it's kind of like, oh, shoot, let me not let me not

connect myself with something that went wrong. I just want to find a way to then say, get the blame off of me, potentially when a lot of times we're not looking to place blame or you know, make a responsible party feel bad for something that may go wrong. It's more so just saying, hey, how can we pivot next time to make things different? How can we avoid making the same mistake again? Um, And I've learned that

just recently. So when you say that this happened maybe about almost two years ago, a year and a half. In the year and a half, I feel like it's safe to say, just from my own standpoint, that I've learned how to act differently in this One thing we talked about a lot on this show was growth, and you and not have talked about how we've changed even

since the beginning of this podcast till now. Some of the things that we thought were okay in the very beginning, we're learning now we'ren't okay, so we're both I will have to give you kudos on that you have acknowledge that and being like, you know, I'm gonna be deliberate about changing that. A lot of people ask us all the time, like, how do you guys continue to keep the fire burning? How do you guys continue to keep staying in it in the marriage that has open communication.

One word empathy. M hmm, right, And I'm gonna explain to you why empathy allows you to not agree with what the person is saying, because you don't have to agree, but it allows you to understand how they could feel about what is transpiring in the present moment. And there's a difference. Right agreeing means yeah, you're right, I'm wrong, I should change all of my behavior. That's not what I'm saying. Empathy is saying, you know what, in life,

there is never really a true black and white. There's never truly a right and wrong. Now, there are moral clauses in between every situation where you know what the right thing is right like don't stay over, don't fight people, don't kill. But there's definitely some areas of gray, and empathy allows you to live in the gray and at

least understand where your partners coming from. For example, Codina and I talk all the time about how we've matured through sex, right, because a lot of the issues that we see from people often relate to my partner doesn't understand what I need or want sexually, right, And Codina, when I went through that for years, it wasn't until we started to have empathy for our partner and say, well, you know what, my partner is not wrong, She's just

living in a different space with a different perspective. So if I can exist in that space and perspective through listening to her, I can understand where she's coming from. And if I can understand where she's coming from, I can now maneuver in a way that's positive for both of us. And I use sex as an example because for a lot of relationships, there's two things that cure relationships is sex and finances. So so the same thing with finances, right, You and I have talked about how

we've bettered our finances started with empathy. Rather than Kadine and I being at each other's throats and being like she does this wrong with money or he does this wrong with money? Is let me understand why this person feels this way. And if I can at least understand why, now I can get a greater understanding of how to explain why I feel the way I feel. But it first has the empathy to understand where my partner's coming from. So empathy is very important. Well, you know there's different

types of empathy. I think we should jump into some facts and stats about the way you can exhibit empathy towards someone because there's different ways to do it. So first off, there is um effective that's with an a effective um or emotional empathy, which is the ability to respond to people's emotions appropriately. So in that instance, for example, somebody is distraught about something, how do you then, like

we say, empathize with them. How do you then kind of help to relate to the situation that they're in or offer some sort of comfort? And can I say the first thing about responding to someone's emotions appropriately, do not tell people that they are not allowed to feel the way they feel like. That is the number one thing. When you say to someone why would you feel like that way about that? People don't wake up just asking to feel the way. Some people do, some people just

people punishment, some people do. But most people are affected by past traumas and when something happens, it triggers that and they feel a way. And we a lot of times, as humans, like to say, well, I didn't mean for it to affect you that way, So you got to grow up, stop being so sensitive and change the way you respond to what I said, rather than saying, damn, I affect that person that way. Uh, can let me at least try to help that person unpack why that

happened like that. I know a lot of times we are very quick to discard how people feel because we feel like remember that used to be argument between us, Yo Canina, I used this. We don't do this anymore, and we used to because Dean will be feeling a way about something and I will give for an example of well, you do that to me and I don't feel a way. So now I'm expecting you to not feel a way because it didn't affect me that way.

That's unfair to your partner. Just because you didn't respond a certain way to the same scenario doesn't mean that your partner is supposed to exhibit the same behavior. You can't do that to people, absolutely not. And as partner, parents, spouse, child friends, partner friends, same thing, same thing. Then there's the somatic empathy, which is the ability to feel what

another person is feeling. Right, So I think in an instance like this, it's like, you know, somebody you know loses a parent, and you've lost a parent, you've lost a child for example, God forbid, And it's the thing where you know, I can actually understand for sure, because you know, a lot of times things happen and you're like, man, I can't even imagine what you're going through type of thing. But this type of empathy is different. You've been there,

you know what it's like. You may not exhibit the same exact feelings, but you can kind of empathize with that. And then particularly what we're speaking about today is cognitive empathy, and that's the ability to understand someone's response to a situation that takes emotional maturity absolutely. So expressing empathy is really the quickest way to disarm someone in an emotional situation. Empathy allows people to kind of let go of that

defense energy and feel safe enough to express themselves. So let's talk about that. What do I always say you are when we have arguments? Defensive? Defensive? Have you noticed how my approach to you has changed? Don't tell me you're using reverse psychology is reseychology, but think about things about cognitive empathy right right, and also knowing that codeine is and this this is where empathy is important. We've talked about this on the pot on the live podcast.

I know that my wife is defensive, right. The only reason I know that my wife is defensive is because I used empathy to understand why does she feel this way? When we used to have arguments and I'd be like, why did she get some defensive? Rather than trying to understand why she gets defensive? What I used to say you all the time, You've got to stop being defensive. There's no reason for you to be defensive, right, And then I was like, that's not working because that just

made her more offensive. So I said, let me try to understand why she gets that way. Started speaking to you. We talked about your parents. We notice how your parents respond to situations, and I started to realizing she gets like that because that's the only way she knows how to not take accountability for what she may have done wrong. Why is she avoiding accountability because she doesn't want to be blamed. Why that she doesn't want to be blamed because in her life she felt like she was blamed

for a lot that she didn't do. And it's like not even as much as just me trying to pursue whatever I think this perfection is for. So I want to be the perfect wife, for example, So if I do something that upsets you, to me, that's like, oh my god, in this moment, I'm not the perfect wife because what do I say to you? A lot? Sometimes I feel in addequate. Sometimes I feel like I'm the weak link of the two of us because I don't do things the way you do or my process that

may not be the same. So for me, that's that's me feeling beaten down because I'm like, man, like I'm disappointing to the situation, like I was the same through my parents, and every want to disappoint my parents. So that was a large part of the reason why that I really had to moll over in my head, like am I going to make this decision? What's going to be the repercussions for it? I don't want to be

able to do that. So because I usually move so intentionally, that's the reason why I feel like I need to quote unquote defend myself or I need to explain how I arrived at something. I need to explain my rationale because I don't just move or willingly just to move, you know what I'm saying. So that's why it's important for me to be able to do that, because I'm

pursuing this perfection that I know is probably impossible. But I need the people who I love and people who I care for to know that Kadine is moving with the best intention, but it's never received that way. But do you realize that in moving that way and trying to be super deliberate, you're not allowing yourself to have empathy for your partner because now you're like, I'm moving deliberately.

I'm I'm moving in a space of perfection, which means anything I'm doing I'm doing so that you don't get hurt. So if you get hurt, that's on you, that's not on me. It's taking the which I was moving in this direction. If you feel a way, that's something you have to do, and that's something I used to do to me a lot, or she used to discard my feelings and I used to be like, yo, hey, just because you didn't do it on purpose, don't mean that

it didn't hurt me. And she was just like, but I don't understand why it hurts you if you know now why I did it. And I used to say to her, I know now why you did it, so I'm able to have empathy for you. But in the moments, I had no idea why you did it, and the fact that it hurt me was not my choice. It just hurt and and it's like both of us being able to have empathy for each other's allowed us to get to a space where it's like, oh, I see so I was trying to move purposeful, but I hurt you.

I apologize. Let's discuss why it hurt you. Then we discussed why it hurts me. And when I get that feeling of at least she's trying to understand, but now I at least I understand how she moves. So now I realized there's nobody to aim. She wasn't moving in the space of negativity or trying to be malice malicious, but I took it that way, and now I have to unpack why did I take it that way? Then I started to realize, Wow, there were projections from things

that were happening in my life before that way. She moved this way. I perceived it in a way that it wasn't. But here's the thing. This is the work that goes into marriage or any relationship that people like, oh, marriage be tough, marriage, don't be tough. It is the two of us together working on unpacking all the things that we have developed in ourselves as individuals and now

trying to be together. Right, I mean, think about it, you're really unpacking a lifetime's worth of things with the spouse, and this is stuff that was ingrained in you before you even met each other. It's the way you were conditioned based off of society, based off of your upbringing, within your household, things that your parents you know, in turn, caused you to Then it became a character stick. You know, it could be a character flaw in some instances, you know.

Emotional validation. What we're seeing here is like the process of learning about, understanding and expressing acceptance over another person's emotional experience, which is what we talked. We talked about. So emotionally validating is distinguished from emotional invalidation, when a person's emotional experiences are rejected, ignored, and judged. So, for example, like the example we just gave, my mom feels away. Codem's response, which would be an emotional invalidation is she

shouldn't feel that way because I told your father. So now you're saying that my mom shouldn't be shouldn't feel away about what happened to her. That piste me off as opposed to be like, oh wow, I didn't realize that it made her feel away. I'm sorry about that, and I will let her know that that wasn't my purpose or my intention. There goes, here's someone who understands

how my mom feels. You see how the response the response is totally totally different, and that now it doesn't validate or invalidate what you did because you still did what you did. But now it's like, wow, at least I I validated her emotional response, So now I feel empathy. So now she can open up and tell me. Because that's what happens when you make someone feel invalid right their emotions. Now they get defensive. And most people when

when they feel like their emotions are invalid. You know what they do, attack because now you're making me feel like my emotions don't matter. So now I have to hurt you so you can feel how I felt. That was me. That was me whenever CADEM used to make me feel like my emotions were invalid. My defense mechanism to that was to then try to say something to make her feel how I feel, so that then I can say, you see how you feel right there, that's how I feel. Since you don't understand how I feel,

I got to make you feel how I feel. Right And that's when the petty comes in, super petty, and I know my pet petty and yes, And the thing is neither response is helpful and building a bridge for communication. You sure uh? And next we have Validating an emotion does not mean that you agree with the other person or that you think that their emotional response is warranted. Rather, you demonstrate that you understand what they are feeling without trying to talk them out of it or making them

feel shame for feeling that way. And that's exactly what we're talking about. When someone feels a way, do not shame them. Do not shame them for feeling a way right. You know, I gave an example because we were discussing this last night with Trouble and Matt and right, and it's no different than you and your boys are playing around all the time, right, and yea, you're acting like a bitch. You say that you acting like a bitch. He gets piste off. It's really piste off. And he's like, yeah,

what do you get mad for? You don't call me a bit? My boys like why why would they get mad? You know what I mean? Boy? You know I know you're not a bitch. But now you're saying to him, like, why you acting like that? You get that upset? Then he tells you, well, you know, I had a very tumultuous pass with my dad and before he used to whip my ass, he used to call me a bit

all the times. I don't like that. Allowing someone showing empathy to someone and allowing them to tell you why they feel a way about it may open your eyes to who they really are. But when you invalidate how they feel, you're now closing them off to not opening up about why. And then what you do is you repeat the behavior because you're telling them I should be able to call you a bit because I'm saying it

out of love, which doesn't work for everybody. I mean, if somebody you genuinely care for you, you should want to be able to have that dialogue, you know. So yeah, I totally um CO signed on that one as well, for sure. So like, let's talk about ways that you can actually validate or or or help to emotionally validate

um in a scenario. Right, So, yeah, someone's feeling so identifying acknowledging the emotion, encouraging the person to speak vulnerably express the emotion that they're feeling, increase your emotional vocabulary with a feelings will used by therapists. That's interesting feelings will. Yeah, I don't. I don't really use the feelings will, but

I guess it's it's simple. There are a wheel of emotions that you go through anger, uh, disappointment, happiness, you know, envy, joy, There's a bunch of wheel emotions, and you just understand what each of those emotions look like with the person that you're with, and when when you can express or understand what their emotions look like when they're projecting that emotion, you can be more intent intent for not intent for um purposeful or deliberate about how to address the feelings

you see, rather than just saying, these are the feelings I'm used to and you need to stay in these feelings and for us to be friends or in a relationship, which I think a lot of people do. A lot of people say, listen, you need to be happy because I need to be happy. So you need to stay in your happiness regardless of what I say to you, because everything I say to you out of love. That's probably one of the most toxic, fun up things I've ever heard in my life. But you know how many

people exist in that space. You know how many parents that their kids. I was about to say, that's probably the biggest time when you've seen it, when you've seen it, you were doing this because I love you. I'm doing don't don't do what I do, do what I say because I love you. That's probably one of the most toxic relationships that creates no explanation that we see today, no explanation, no conversation, right acknowledge the source of the emotion.

Behind every negative emotion is an unmeant need. So you have to listen to your speakers experience that may have led them to be triggered and ask questions about their experience. You know, they believe their fears, their needs to get to the root of the emotion. And that's not easy because how many conversations when I kept member when we first got together, and you're just very quiet, yes, and I just be like, why are you acting like this? Why?

And you didn't feel vulnerable enough to open up. I didn't. The thing is, I didn't know how to I didn't even know where to beren't even to be. And I impact a lot of this in our book too. I just didn't even I didn't begin to eat. I don't know where to start with exper seeing how I felt, because it wasn't something that was encouraged in my house, and not for the sake of my parents saying, well,

we don't care about your feelings, so whatever. It was just more so that we just never had those dialogues or conversations where anyone was able to then unpack how they felt in a forum where they felt like it was going to be received without disrespect. And that was something that was difficult for me. So that's why with you, when I met you, I think your approach was at first met with a little bit of like, damn, why is he getting on me? And now I'm not being

that perfect girlfriend that I'm supposed to be. Yeah, and I'm just like damn, Like now now he's gonna hate me. Now he's gonna want to break up with me. Now he's gonna probably try to find better because I'm not being the best for him in that moment. And that gave me a lot of anxiety. So it made me feel like I didn't even want to express how I felt. And I think it's important for people to understand that

when you ask people what's wrong. Here's another thing. Don't expect people to have the vocabulary or the intellect or even know how to express what they're going through and judge them for not knowing how to adequately express what they're going through. We are all humans, learning as we

go from day to day. So when you're in a relationship with someone, or when you're talking to your child, or when you're talking to someone, don't just say what's wrong, and then when they can't express to you verbally exactly what they're going through, feel like, oh, you're just being emotional. That's unfair. You know. And I feel like I'm just speaking from a man's standpoint because this podcast is from a husband wife perspective. I feel like we as men

often do that to women, right. I feel like, if your if your wife, or your girlfriend or your baby's mother is going through something emotional because we are different emotionally, we have different hormones and stuff, our first responses, she's just being emotional, and our first responses, you know, I'm never gonna understand what she's talking about going through, so I'm going to shut down. And I feel like women

often do this to men. If a man tries to show emotional, being vulnerable, then it's he's acting like a bit. Well I said that to you before. I was just like, damn, like you're trying to for yourself becoming off as being real nitpicky or like, you know, I would say things to you like that, like damn, like you just want to be harpen on ship like and using that terminology is enough to shut somebody down or it's enough to start some sort of like combat with another person. Um.

So that is absolutely absolutely true. And then the last one think about intent versus impact, which is a great way to really put it like, what's my intent versus

how it impacted the person? Right, So expressing that you understand the feeling that's being expressed to you is like the first sign, which we've said, and then you don't have to necessarily apologize if you don't feel like you've done something wrong, but you can still express that you understand the source of that emotion being hard or frustrating

or saddening to saddening to somebody. So for me, that was always my struggle intent versus impact, Like I didn't intend for it to come out this way, and then I end up beating myself up like damn, Like where did I go wrong? I thought this out so perfectly it should have landed this way, and then it didn't land that way. So now the impact that it's caused is now creating a space for me to feel badly. And because I don't want to feel badly, I want to put the onus on you, I'm gonna be like,

you know what, that's not how I intended it. But you know why most people don't even think about their partner when they make a move or do something. They deliberately do things thinking I wouldn't feel a way about this, so I'm gonna move this way, and then when their partner feels a way about something, they try to invalidate their partner's emotions because even if you thought about it, you thought about it from your perspective. So this is

what I would say to people. When you make a move that hurt someone, Right, even if you did someone purpose and you didn't think that it was going to hurt someone, don't say, well, I wouldn't be hurt by this, so they shouldn't be hurt, and definitely don't tell that person. Instead, just be like, oh, it's it's interesting that you're hurt by it. Can you tell me why, right, don't be so quick to give your reasons as to why they

shouldn't be hurt. Just listen, listen, And I agree with them saying you don't have to admit fault, like you you really don't, but you you can say, man, I apologize that you're hurt. I feel bad that you're hurt. That was never my intent. That doesn't mean that I'm not going to move in the same way moving forward, because this way maybe best for me and for you. But at least if you know what my intent was, then you can decipher if the impact really was what

it was and then beyond what you just said. And I'll use the example with your parents and your mom particularly feeling like she was left out with this whole Jamaica thing. Right, I knew that she was now hurt by the fact that I did not personally speak to her about Jamaica. Right, So I acknowledge that to you because you're my husband, I was kind of like, bro, like I told your dad, they didn't live in the same house. I can't even expect for a husband and

wife living in the same house to communicate. So that was the first thing where I went wrong, Right, You and I communicate a lot about a lot of things, but everybody isn't work that way, right, So I acknowledge that your mom deserved seeing as though she birthedew her

own invitation. Right, I should not have assumed that she automatically would not make provisions to come because your sister just had a baby, right, And that's just me thinking as a woman and a mom, like, damn, you know, I know how much I needed my mom when I just had a baby. So she's probably not gonna leave Tori to deal with this baby. You're not to deal with, but you know, deal with the first part. This is all my perspective that has gone through my head because

again why I don't move without intention. I kind of try to mold things over right. It wasn't received that way. So when I saw your mom in person and not through text and not through phone, because I wanted to make sure that her and your dad understood where I came from, then apologized to her for feeling left out.

Acknowledge that the fact that she could have felt left out because as a mom now who has sons, I would have felt away if my daughter in law didn't tell me that you was having some sort of trip for my son, like I birthed the kid, you know. So I understood that, and I related to your mom how I understand if it was the other way around,

I might have felt hurt. And then what I do now is what I've created a group text with you, your dad, your mom, your sister, and I have a text with your mom and dad separately because they do a lot of the arrangements in their household and they

know I keep our schedule. So now I've showed you recently, even recently, this is the chat that I have with your family and let you know that this is where I coordinate schedules who's coming, who's going, when we can get together, when we can visit, because I want to make sure nothing like that happens again. So it's the work after acknowledging how she felt, it's the work that goes into place to make sure it doesn't happen again.

And it's also empathy on my part from knowing that my wife can't do this on purpose, right, You know what I'm saying. It takes It takes empathy to also be like it would be easy for me to be like she did this on because she she wants my mom to feel it because now she's my wife. You know how people around about what happened because it's easy. You know how people like to just kind of spew out the fact that you should have issues with your

in laws, you know what I mean. And it's never been the case for your mom and dad and I, like, we've never had those kind of issues. So it was important for me to make sure that she understood that. And I ain't trying to mess with Karen. I ain't trying to Karen come upside in my head. But I know she's also a sensitive because, you know, because like mom,

she cares about kids. I completely understand that. And some people, I think from from our parents generation, like when you have things going on, they require that you contact them directly because if they feel like they didn't receive an invitation, that they weren't invited. Very recently, my dad's seventieth birthday party another situation. I send a text to the children in the house, who are my cousins that are my age range, Hey, y'all, I'm having a party for my dad.

Make sure you tell your dad, who is my dad's brother. Make sure you tell your dad and mom to let me know who can come or whatever whatever. Then my aunt reaches out to me and it's like, did you tell your uncle? And I was like, well, I told my cousins their dad. I told him, so I just told him to spread the word. And she's like, but you didn't invite him directly, And I was like, you need your own invitations. And then I'm like, all right, Sis, alright, Sis,

I'm gonna send him indirectly. Direct I'm gonna send it to him directly. So I sent it to him directly and he was like, oh yeah, I already knew about this. I told you that I was coming. I'm like, you see, but I do feel you let me cross my teas and that minds because I ain't trying to offend nobody promise. And if you have the the wherewithal or the ability to go to the extra step to make sure that people are okay, you might as well do it. But

also empathy required. Empathy is required also for the person who's having the emotional outburst right to also have empathy for the person that they're upset at, to understand, to understand that that person may not have been trying to hurt you. So just because your feelings hurt, don't mean that you get to then spue all of this venom on someone else when they might probably didn't do what you're expecting they did on purpose. And I think that

this is important for many relationships. Right, you know, how we create narratives about why someone does something, that's because we don't give empathy to the party that we want to be upset at. So for example, that happened with my parents, I could have been no, no, funk that funk that no, you just want to leave my parents out on purpose, and that's just what it is, and

I'm just pissed about it. Or I could have empathy and be like, you know what, She'd be playing on a lot of stuff and it could have been an oversight purpose. And I think that a lot more people need to understand that most arguments don't don't happen because people are trying to be malicious. They happen because of

miscommunications and false narratives. You eliminate miscommunications and false narratives by having empathy and learning to listen and not listening with the intent to respond, but listening with the intent to understand. That's ultimately what this this whole thing is about. Listening with the intent to understand. And I said, you know what, I was hoping that my aunt would understand cadinans life is crazy. Cadine could barely She don't even know what she had for breakfast, or if she even

had breakfast this morning. So in that moment, I could have been taken it two ways. I could have been like, wow, Auntie knows that my life is crazy, so she was just reaching out to remind me not to not include my uncle. Or I could have taken it as damn, she just trying to come down on me because I didn't send the invitation to him. In that moment, I chose to say, you know what, she's probably looking out for me because she knows my life is crazy. I

chose to take the positive route on that one. And I said, you know what, Auntie, thank you so much for telling me that I'm want to invite him now because I don't want them to feel left out. You know, that's a whole another podcast, right choosing to see the positive, See the positive, that's the whole. We're gonna do a whole another positive podcast. We just be here involving coming up with episodes as we talked to See the Positive, because we had a whole discussion listen about how to

choose to be positive. And for two seconds, I promise you, I was like, you know, my life is crazy. Says like come on, and she says, you know my life is crazy. You know, you know I'm not going to not invite his brother, Like come on, what does that even make any sense? But I said, you know what, she's probably just reminded me. And she said it, she said, I know you're busy, so you know, I just want to make sure you didn't forget and it came it was.

That was as simple as that. Because she understands that I'm crazy busy, I understand how it could have been taken, party done. And I think that's every family because the same thing happened with my aunt and my cousins. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. Is that it's a generational things, which I'm learning with some things too. And then lastly, just to kind of wrap things up, making sure that we're encouraging our kids to express the

root of their feelings. So with Dival and I, when the kids stock coming, they start crying about something or they're whining about something, I try to make sure that it's not just meant with like stop crying, stop crying, but it's more meant with control your emotions in this moment. Can you tell mommy why you feel the way you feel. It's super important to encourage that conversation and encourage the dialogue.

Even as early as four years old, we make sure if Cats is crying, Cats has to tell me how he feels in that moment so I can help him navigate those emotions in a safe space before he's old enough to have to deal with people that may not be a savvy Okay, I, hey, this is like a conversation. I think we should take a break now and come back to some listener letters so we can see what y'all have to say this episode, because you know, sometimes we don't always going to be the ones to come

up with the topics. We want to see what 'll happen to So take a quick break and we'll be back. Al right, back with listen letters. I always start. Do you want to start? I'll start, all right, go for it number one. Hey, y'all, I'm a twenty six year old female that suffers from mommy issues. Just some backstory. My mom had me very young and I was raised by my grandmother father's mom, but my mom was somewhat

active in my life as far as providing financially. My trauma comes in when I was sexually assaulted by her boyfriend at the time I was around twelve thirteen, where she was aware of because I told her the day it happened. Fast forward, she is married and for a very long time I was conflicted. So I went to therapy and also invite her and I did give her an ultimatum, and she told me that she can't give up on her livelihood from me and walked out. I'm

a little bit confused. Was the guy connected to her livelihood? The livelihood is about making money, so I'm a little confused. But what we'll see having spoke to her since two years have passed, but I'm starting to realize that it's affecting other relationships around me. I'm quick to cut people off. It's hard for me to show grace. I don't speak about this much because it's not something people usually can

give me advice on. But I listened to you guys a lot, and I'm just hoping that I can get something out of how to be more graceful to others and not be quick to dismiss them. Yeah, I guess that's yeah. I felt the same way. I was confused about did mom go on to marry this man after you expressed that he sexually assaulted you? Because that's like huge and that's major and I wouldn't be able to relate to that. No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't be able

to relate that. But um, I would say this though your mom clearly has had some trauma in her life as well. Right, you said you were raised by your father's mom, which means you wasn't raised by your father and he wasn't raised by your mother's mom. So we don't know what has happened in her life to make her make the choices. But she did have a child very young. Was she sexually abused? You know what I'm saying? Why you know what I'm saying? Why was she active

so young? And how did that affect her? Why does she feel like leaving this man is going to affect her livelihood? Is this person providing something for her that she can't get anywhere else? But this only happens when you have empathy. Rather than saying to your mom, you made me feel away, and since you made me feel away, you have to apologize and you have to tell me all these reasons, how about you approach your mom with some empathy and say, hey, mom, what's been going on

in your life? Understand where Try to understand where your mom is coming from, so it can at least give you peace. You may not get the answers you want, may not agree right, you may not agree with her at all, but at least it can give you pieces that you know what, my mom has been struggling with these demons for years, and part of the way she responds to me are projections of what she's dealt with.

Then you can release it from yourself. Now you're no longer saying what's wrong with me, because it seems like now she's saying what's wrong with me that my mom would choose that relationship. Now your self loath and you feel like it's something I did wrong, and you're taking that on you. Where someone's response to a act, someone's feelings don't have to necessarily be a direct indicator of

something that you may or may not have done. So I think that's a really great piece for her, and I feel like you also choose this now that you're

aware of what's happening. If your mom is able to unwilling to have the conversation with you, maybe just you and her or in the presence of maybe a therapist, you then can't or regardless if you have the conversation with her or not, then take the way you feel and blame other people or look for ways to cut other people off just because you're You're mom was that way.

Not everyone is the same. It's almost like being in an abusive relationship, for example, and you with a spouse that abuses you, abuses you or doesn't do things to make you feel good, and then you get into another relationship and this new person now has to bear the burden of what the last person did, and the last person if you're not giving them a fair chance to

express to you how they genuinely feel about you. So you may be sabotaging relationships around you because of your mom, but I feel like it should be quite the opposite, And I know it's probably easier said than done. It's I completely get that, um, but also to everyone cannot bear the burden, UM, of what your mom puts you through. I feel like she's sabotaged a little bit because having having a mom leave you gives you a sense of like,

like you're not worthy. Yeah, like an abandonment, an abandonment issue, you know, not worthy. So rather than this person leaving me, I'm going to push them away at least I'm in control, control, at least power again. Shout out to uh the team Perry's Sisters. Season two, we actually talk about that actual issue.

You get a chance to learn more about the characters and one of the characters I'm not gonna give it away, but had issues with mommy issues, had mommy issues and abandonment issues, and purposefully pushed people away so they can feel like they were in control before the person left. So what happens and what she probably tends to do,

She says, she cuts people off quickly. They're constantly scanning for red flags, and once they see a red flag, rather than have an empathy for a person and trying to understand why that flag is there, they say, I'm going to control this and cut them off. I win, I win, you lose. You lost me on my terms. But that's self sabotaging, and I think you just have

to learn how to deal with that. And it helps with um having empathy with your mom first and understanding what she went through in her life and stopped putting that on yourself, because then you end up feeling like I don't deserve people. If my mom left me, that means I don't deserve people, which means everyone is going

to leave me, which is not the case. Absolutely that helps us, all right, And our second letter starts with hey, Conde and devote I love y'all and thank God for giving you both the courage to heal others by simply living your truth. Than I'd love to hear that thank you. In today's climate, there's a lot there's a lack of authenticity, So I'm really happy you push the narrative to authentically

and apologetically be yourself. Thank you, appreciate. I'm in a relation or I'm in relation with someone who decides to ignore me in times of frustration. Granted I caused the frustration sometimes and understand needing to take a breather, come back later to discuss for a resolution. Once he decides to talk to me again, the issue isn't addressed. He acts normal as if nothing happened, and it frustrates the living ship out of me exactly. Sorry for the verbid.

I came from a family who did just that growing up the same and I've internally suffering, right, I've internally suffered from it. So learning to respectfully, effectively and efficiently vocalize my concerns has been paramount and very hard. Might I add, I completely understand this, this is me. Nevertheless, I'm trying, which I am. I've asked him to stop ignoring me, as it isn't conducive to my growth and to try to articulate himself. But he's under the notion

what's understood doesn't have to be explained. He also believes ignoring is better than blowing up. I disagree. I don't think either are effective or efficient. I know people deal with things differently and arrive at conclusions at different times, but this is truly bothering my spirit. I've tried communicating as best I know how, and it seemingly isn't working,

falling on deaf ears. What are your thoughts? Ps? I came to your Life show and had the absolute best time of my life when you allow the audience to space X question. I had my hand up but got scared. Y'all a groundbreak and keep doing what you do and thanks. So with this girl, you're me like, this is literally me having, you know, not had the opportunity or the space or feeling the comfort to be able to describe

how I felt in moments. It really really um suffocated me in my relationship with Devout early on, and it still continues to be a constant, day in and day out work for me to be able to eloquently express to him how I feel. I think one I've gotten better, um, and thank you for that, thanks for acknowledging it. But I feel like the issue in this whole entire paragraph that she said is that sometimes you have to take a breather and come back to it later to discuss

the resolution. That's one thing that I used to think worked particularly for us, And I'm giving you this piece of advice because I know it didn't work for us, and since it's a very similar situation, maybe you can try this and see how it works for you. But Deval and I need to sit in real time in the moment, discuss and come to conclusion. Now, the conclusion may not be hunky dorry. We're gonna hug and kiss

and we both agreement with each other. No, a lot of times it's meant with like, well, you're in titile to feel it what you feel. You're entitled to feel it. What you feel it may not be the same. However, we're going to respect how the other person feels and agree to agree. As cliche as that sounds, but leaving things to fester is never good. And let me I speak on his point, because I'm gonna let you finish

his point. When you decide that you want to walk away and take some time and then come back, right, You can't just expect that he wants to now then talk about it. And if you left him because Kadina and I have been through this, you left him to talk think on his own, and he's figured out a way to let it be okay, he then does not want to talk about it. I've been there before. When I wanted to talk about it, you wanted to walk away and be gone for hours and not say nothing. Cool.

Now when you come back, okay, can we talk about it? I don't want to. I've already I've already closed that chapter. I'm done with it, which is also not mature by any means. But it's like I don't want to think about it now because I just don't always want to be on your terms. That's where the frustration comes. Nothing has been resolved, and now he wants to act normal and you're like, no, I want to talk about it now. That's unfair. So that's where where he's coming from. It

is like, Okay, my time is not important. Your time is more important. Even though you've caused the frustration, that's not fair to me. So that's what he's feeling. We're go ahead. Also he wants to leave. Oh, now you gotta do with that, so our producer uh, correcting me, which really definitely does change the scope of the conversation. When you want to talk, he wants to to walk away. That's where the frustration comes because he's frustrated. He doesn't

want to blow up. He'd rather be quiet and ignore it, which I agree that does not help anything. He the same way, she's going to have to learn what triggers her triggers are. He's going to have to learn what his triggers are and learn how to effectively communicate in real time. But because she she also cannot wait on his time. It's not cool to put someone aside, even if they're the cause of the frustration. If she did something wrong to you and you're upset and now she

wants to talk about it, I get that. But if this is the person you want to spend your life with, you have to be able to speak to them in real time time, even through your frustration. That's what growth is. Yeah, and it's hard for me. I'm not even gonna lie like sometimes in real time it's hard for me because I tend to do what get really emotional. So if I get emotional and then like my eyes are welling up and I'm starting to tear up and I'm starting to cry, and then de vals just like, what are

You're crying for your being a victim? And I'm like, I'm not trying to play victim, but that's just how it's affecting me in that moment. So now I'm being judged for crying, and now for being for for being that this cry baby, and norm I'm not looking for any kind of um, you know, special attention. I'm not looking to be the victim, not looking for you to console me. I'm not trying to make you the villain. But this is how I'm naturally reacting in this moment.

So sometimes for me, it requires that I kind of step away from it so that way I can gather my emotions to then effectively communicate. I understand, I understand where you're coming from, and I was wrong for that, but once again having empathy and listening to people, the way I felt in that moment was you if you've done something to me and now I'm expressing to you how it made me feel, And now you're crying. It's like you did something to me, and now I have

to console you about something you've done exactly. The shift ends up being that we don't even really sometimes get to the root of the issue right now. I have to spend all this time trying to calm you down, and at times it was just like, bro, I'm the one. That's that's why I like I had to walk away because I'm like, I don't want to make it about me.

It's not about me. You're the one who's upset. Let me come back when I'm in a better mental space to be able to have this conversation without emotion, but also imagine being the one to do something to me and then tell me you don't want to talk to me about what you did to me. It's like, it's like I can't win. You know what I'm saying. I can't win. But this is where having empathy because we just had this discussion where you said to me is like, I don't want to cry and make you think that's

that it's about me. It's about to not talk. And I said, well, you know what, that's wrong for me to tell you how to feel about what I'm saying. If what I'm saying about how you made me feel makes you cry. I have to receive that that's how you feel. I can't tell you how to respond to what I'm saying, and that's also me just having empathy. So then what we came to conclusion was don't walk away from me. I'd rather you be here and cry

to me. But now I have to be strong enough to say, hey, she's crying because she feels a way. I have to continue to talk through what's my problem, not stop what I'm saying to make her not cry, because that also is a false way to get through issues. I just don't want to see my wife cry, so I'll say whatever. And I used to do that. You you you would cry and I'd be like, I know, worry about I'm fine. I'm fine. I promise you I'm fine, And then you'd be like, okay, he's a he's fine,

But I still wouldn't be fine. That's not okay. Let her cry if she wants to cry, if she anything like me, let the cry. Let her cry, because I also realized that my wife is strong enough to cry, but listen to what I'm saying, but she also feels bad that I and she said on time, She's like, I just feel bad that I'm making you feel bad.

And I used to be like, well, I'm feeling bad that I'm making you feel bad about making me feel bad, and then it becomes a self loathing thing where I'm just like, I'm just the worst person in the world for making you feel like this. And then you know, I would say to her because she's asking what should I do? UM, it's difficult with someone who doesn't want to communicate. It depends on how long you've been together.

Give them time and keep trying and give them empathy to understand that they've probably going through some things that they working through on their own. If he loves you, and you know, because this is a very important part too, there's another whole podcast triple write this down. We're going to do a whole podcast on choices, right because there's a lot of people who ask me questions and they tell me, these bitches be doing this, these bayes be

doing that. But it's like you keep choosing the same person over and over again. There's billions of women in the world, but you keep choosing the same type of woman and saying that all women are like this, No, you keep choosing. When you've chosen someone to be with, how they respond is up to you whether or not

you want to be in that relationship. So if you're trying to work and trying to work and realizing that you're the only one trying to work, there may come a point where you have to say, this is no longer a relationship I'm carrying, and I need to be in a relationship where someone's gonna work as hard as me. That's a hard truth. But no one has to be there. We talk about this in the book We over me shout uh, shameless plug, but we always talk about it.

The opening of the book, we mentioned that no one deserves well, no one has a right to your presence, and you don't have to give anything to anybody. So anything you give to someone or anything they give to you as a privilege, remember that. And if you constantly live in that space, it's easy for you to walk away when the situation does not no longer provides what

you need. I love that. I love that. I think there's some great advice and just know says you're not alone, and at least you're asking to find out the right avenue to be able to tackle this. When people writing for listening letters, y'all, we take that as you being concerned about whatever situation that you're in and you're really

trying to find a way to make it work. So we appreciate you all really being vulnerable with us, and you know, thanks for even listening to our little two sins because you know, we don't have all the answers, but we're trying it out and hopefully it helps change with us because Kadina and I are different people from two thousand eight teen when we started this podcast. That is a fact. That is a fact. All right. I'll

keep writing in for listening letters. If you want to be featured as one of our listener letters, be sure to email us at dead as Advice at gmail dot com. That's right, that's D E A D A S S A D V I C E at gmail dot com. All right, we're talking empathy today and what would you want to some things up with as your moment of truth? We're talking about feelings. I would saying, while I'm up cleaning, pick up your feelings. No, I would say, it's important

for people to understand that emotions are real. Number one thing. Stop telling people that they are not entitled to feel the way they feel. Everyone is entitled to feel the

way they feel. What you have to start doing if you want to become a more productive human And why I say productive human is because if you want to be better in relationships, business, work, parent, child, intimate relationships, the greatest thing you can have in this life is empathy, because empathy allows you to see from a different perspective. Empathy opens up your eyes. Empathy gives you a three sixty view of a situation as opposed to the one

view that you have sitting from where you're sitting. Because as people, we are extremely limited with these two eyes. Right, we have our peripheral vision and the vision in front, so we can see about one eight. Well, there's a whole d eighty degrees behind us that we can't yea. And if you allow yourself to have empathy, you give yourself a greater amount of vision, which can open up your mind and you can learn a lot more. Give them an entire mouthful. You know what I'm saying them

the truth? Good job. This is great because this is an episode that you came up with the topic four and I think it was great that we were able to discuss it. Um, I guess my moment. The truth is going to be pretty simple because you said pretty much everything. Um. Learn how to be empathetic without having to be in defense. Oh, okay, you can. You can.

They're not move mutual exclusive. You can be empathetic towards someone and have empathy for something that you may have done or feelings that you've evoked in that person without feeling like you're just the bad guy, or you're to blame, or what you did was necessarily wrong. Because no one is gonna not every not every person is going to

feel the exact way you feel about a scenario. We're all different, we all react to things differently, And although your heart might have been in the right place if it wasn't received that way, you don't necessarily have to be down on yourself that you've you're to blame. You just opened up a different perspective having empathy for yourself, yeah, and saying, you know what, I didn't do that on purpose. I'm not the worst person in the world. I can

make in correction and move on. That's that's a great at A tip is empathy doesn't only go to other people. You can also have empathy and get place to yourself that love, that perfect way to end, all right, y'all? And if you want to be featured on social media, um no, you don't want to be featured on social media. Why can I get it together today? Feelings empathy for me? All, let's talk? All right, So we already did the list

of letter. If you want to be featured, however, you can follow us on social media, and I think you should. If you're not already did ask the podcast and I'm Cadine, I am and I am devout And if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, be sure to rate, review and subscribe. Dead As Dead Ass is a production of I Heart Media podcast Network and is produced by the Norapinia and Triple Follow the podcast on social media at dead as the Podcasts and Never Miss a Thing