Can I Live?

Go listen to see by raising three black men in this world today is the scariest thing about being a mother as a black man in America, especially a black man. I'd like to smile a lot. Some days, it is tough to be outside and just be happy. Hey, I'm Cadine and we're the ellis Is. You may know us from posting funny videos without boys and reading each other quickly as a form of therapy. Wait, I'll make you need derby most days. And one more important thing to mention,

we're married, Yes, sir, we are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about. Through the lens of a millennial married couple. Dead ass is a term that we say every day. Where we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts. One hunted, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We're about to take Phillows off to a whole new level. Dead ass starts. Now this topic is very heavy for us, Yes, heavy load.

Today I'm with Jackson in the park and this white woman next to us, she's there with with her kids, and I'm Neil with Jackson, and you know, she says, oh, I see, it's it's your day. And I'm like, what, Like I said, you know, you know you you and your son out, you know, it must be your day, you know, your weekend. I was just like, nah, like I did this yesterday because I'm married and I do

this every day, this fatherhood thing. This is something I do every day, Like contrary to what you may believe, I'm a father every day. And I just walked away, didn't like, didn't the knowledge the fact that that was like, really, that's a that's a tough thing to say to somebody. When I walk with my boys anywhere. If people don't know what's via social media, the comments and things they

say are often very similar to that. You know, you can't assume that people know that you're married, but they'll say slick stuff like that, oh it's daddy's weekend, must be daddy's weekend, or you know, like or taking Jackson to the movie theater, you know, saying a matter of fact, this was the other day, I'm taking Jackson to Linden

movie theater. And the young lady behind there said, and I don't think she was being aggressive, but she said, yeah, when it was my dad's that he used to take me out of school and take me to the movie theaters too. And it's like, damn, Like I'm a black man. I can't just have spent time with a song without people thinking that, oh, I'm just doing this too compensate for something else, or maybe I'm not around right. Because those are the hardest things for me to deal with.

Y'all had me a little gased up with the last karaoke session. It actually wasn't karaoke was actually the very top of the show last time, and they clipped that little bite where I hit that note at the end Jazmine Sullivan song. I mean, I will not profess to be any singer, but that was the one shot deal. So don't expect any more of that for me, guys. I'm just putting that out there for future karaokes because the pressure is on. But no, I think today, because

our topic is super serious. Um A song came to mind from um the legend Bob Marley. Bob Marley spoke a lot about human rights or lack thereof, and he was an advocate for that. Oh lord, snapstop s s snap. Until the philosophy which holds one race superior to another inferior it's finally and permanently discredited and abandoned. Everywhere is war.

Miss a war that until there's no longer first class and second class citizens of any nation under the color of a man's skin, Until the color of a man skin is no longer significant or more significant than the color of his eyes. Miss a war that until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race, this is a war. I think the whole song is super super deep and it's crazy, and you know, once you put a beat on the back of it,

you know it's pretty dope. But it's poetry. He's a poet. He spoke about things that mattered. Um, you know, so shout out to Bob and um that song, and I think it's a great segue because it talks about what we're talking about today, talks about human rights or lack thereof, taken from US and the war on human rights, the war on women, the war on our black and brown men and women in um. So this was perfect and fitting. I think, I know it's difficult. I mean it's difficult.

I think about my boys. I wake up in the morning, I look at them, and this is the hardest part for me. I look at them some days and I'm just like man from fifteen to nineteen. I really have to arm you with the tools to survive just being yourself, you know. And I think about that all the time. I think that's a lesson you learn with situations like this that you've been in that now since you've experienced that,

it's how do we equipped our boys. Think about the hundreds of you know, young men who are in your mentorship program and in your speed and performance enhancement training program where it's not just about learning how to run or how to jump, or how to get that college scholarship. It's about how to survive in these streets. It's about knowing the code to which you have to address authority things like that. I mean, it's what makes this topic so heavy today, and we feel like it's so necessary.

And you know, people know us for laughing and joking and smiling on the Graham and having funny videos, but we feel like we would be remiss when doing this podcast if we did not touch on and speak to topics that are currently affecting us on a day to day basis. Yeah. The truth the truth to millennial parenting,

like the truth millennial parenting right now is this. You look at the current climate and how racism has become accepted now because you're allowed to say whatever you want, and it's like, hey, this is the way I feel. So now you see how people are approaching us. And

it was very similar. I remember when Barack Obama in two thousand eight first became president and they said we're going to have a race war, and you saw a lot of biggots come out because they felt like they had to defend their whiteness because we had a black president. And now we have Donald Trump as president and it's now the biggots are out again and they have to once again defend their whiteness and then defending their whiteness. They have to, you know, show you that you're still

just black in America. And it's hard for me sometimes because all you really want to do in life, it's just just enjoy your life, have fun and build your family. And it's difficult, right, And it's difficult because you're seeing rights being taken away. You know, you're watching boys still being murdered in the streets with no repercussion. You're watching women being murdered no repercussions. And it's like when you when it's just you, you like, I could take care

of myself. It's me and my wife, We adults can take care of yourself. But when you send your children out into the street, you're saying, now, like, oh man, I just please like that that conversation that we I have to have with the boys. Now. I feel like sometimes we're regressing. Because I remember my my grandmom, uh shout out to Della from South Carolina, Orangeburg, South Carolina. I asked her at one point, why were you so

hard on us growing up? And she said to me, you know, growing up when I was growing up, if you were a young black boy and you stepped out of line, your life could be taken and no one would care. So for her it was I have to keep you in line first at home, so you know how to behave outside. And the only way she knew how to do that was with force. So we used to get spankings, but we were all in check, me and my brother and my cousin d Van, and so that was done out of fear and out of it

was done out of fear and love. She never wanted anything to happen to us. It was like, if I teach them how to be polite, dressed properly, walk a certain way, talk a certain way, it would limit the opportunities for something bad to happen to them. And I felt like when I was young, I was like, oh, well, things have changed, so it's not that bad. You know,

it's not the sixties anymore. They're not lynching people in the streets anymore, you know, and getting there, and then you look at the past couple of years and you see how many unknowned black men were murdered, which are almost like modern day lynchings because they're murdered and there's no repercussions period. People get to walk away scot free. So what's the message we're sending people who are murdering black boys and black girls. Oh, you can do that,

because nothing's gonna happen. So now, when when our boys are walking in the street and the old solution we used to be will take them out of the hood, move them to a better neighborhood and they can avoid those things. Hell no, because now you see the stories of the young black kids who are in the white neighborhood and the cops came to the swim party and

they all got hemp done. He's in the back of their neck, and it's like, now I'm worried if I move my children too are predominantly white neighborhood or an affluent neighborhood, they have to be the only black and then they're the target. So you can't avoid it, whether you stay in your community or whether you move to their community. It's almost like you can't avoid it. So you have to arm them with a different a different

type of level of understanding that you're black, bro. And that's heavy as heavy for me, as heavy as a father, it's heavy as a mother. I think it's just heavy for anybody who loves on these black and brown men that we have walking out in these streets, really just trying to exist in this space that is America today. And before we get into our guests, just a little background about why we're even talking about this today. According to Vox, four states have passed beat bills this year alone,

banning abortion as early as six weeks into pregnancy. Alabama just passed a near total ban on abortion at any stage of pregnancy, with no exception for rape or incest. Missouri moved a step closer to passing a ban on abortion at eight weeks just station, also without exceptions for rape or incests. The bill passed the state Senate and now returned to the House for approval. And I was down in d C at the Mom Friends with over

five hundred black and brown mamas. We talked about everything from rearing our children to self care, and I feel like it was so very necessary to even touch on in my keynote speech. I feel like I would have been remiss if I didn't speak about women in general and how we're under attack in this country and talk about the really inhumane and antiquated stance that's been taken um with the current recent events that cripple women's rights. UM, and just so happens that Jamila Lemieux was down with

in d C and we were in passing. We didn't get to really chat and talk, but I thought she would be an amazing person to have on today to speak about, uh, the change in abortion rights and women's rights. So Jamila, how are you? I'm good? How are you? I am doing well? I'm doing well. Thank you so much for joining us today. Deval and I, UM, we just felt like this was a current event topic that we had to touch on a little bit, especially after

the weekend we just had in DC. Absolutely, absolutely, what's up, Jamale. Thank you so much for joining us. We We're truly grateful for your voice. I've been following you on Twitter, you on Instagram and seeing all the work you've been doing and it's it's amazing. Thank you so much. Also being a mom yourself and having a beautiful daughter, so I appreciate you just stepping out here and being a voice for millennials and for those of you who don't know.

Jamala is an award winning writer, communication strategist who's rumored to be a leading millennial voice around issues of race, gender, and sexuality. So it was only fitting to have you on here today, Jamila UM and I just wanted to talk to you really quick about one of your recent and most polarized saying. I would say Twitter threads that read, um, I feel regret and disappointment for not keeping the Gucci shades I put on layaway at t J max in

two thousand two. I don't feel anything about not having a child I wasn't ready for or interested in having. And it breaks my heart watching women share these stories from their youth or broken days, or of pregnancies they wanted but couldn't keep re traumatizing themselves in hopes of reaching people who refuse to honor our humanity. But for some goof to say no one wants an abortion implies that it's okay to criminalize those of us who did no. Wow, that was a whole whole read So you need to

tell us, Jimmy Law, where did that come from? What? What sparked this this? This, uh, this thread from you? You know. So we're in this moment where they are these very restrictive um abortion laws that are being past h particularly in southern space, there are other space across. Essentially they're looking to pass filar legislation that is going to make it damn there impossible for women in these

places too out of pain allegal and safe abortion. And I'm careful not to say a pain and abortion because you know, we can very easily return to the days on which women have to participate in an underground network, you know, where they have to go to someone who doesn't have perhaps the training or you know, the standards of cleanliness and understanding of you know, the science of abortion, uh necessaries to performed it, you know, medical procedure in

order to obtain one. You know, you're not gonna make the desire for abortions go away if you restrate women's access that you're just going to find another way to do it right. And so you know, as a result, um, you know, a lot of folks have come forward and shared, you know, as this indication. Every two years when this legislation is on the table, women are coming forward, you know, via social media, via blogs, newspapers and magazines to tell

their abortion stories and so awesome. You know, the abortion stories that are told publicly kind of fit the same, you know, profile it's either I was too young for a baby, I was too broke for a baby, you know, maybe we had children, it can't afford another one. Um, there were some sort of medical prices, so either the child was not going to survive a lovely life was at risks, you know, but there was some you know,

serious reason. That's the why. There's also raping incests, which is one of the two that you would think an abortion could be a thing that's very necessary for quickly, have have you been open about your your story or is this something you choose not to tell you You just tell that you have one, but you don't really tell the story, the story, you know, I had an abortion when I was this was maybe it was twenty fifteen. I was already a mother, a single co parenting while

they're in a very happy, healthy, peacefulball parenting relationship. Financially, I was doing, you know, pretty okay. We money, I'll just say that money was not a factor. So it was a personal reference just for you, you just do it. We were not loved, you know. I think that if I kept the premacy and maybe we would have tried, you know, to be in a romantic relationship. But I don't think that's the reasons we tried to make something like that happened or work, you know, if that's not

what you want. You know, if there if the premacy wasn't on the table, I would have never considered that right, So we would be creating a family, you know, because we got partner and we'd used the Plan B. You know, it wasn't that there was complete cautions wrong to the friends, but you know, the mistake was made plans he didn't work,

So I didn't want the baby. And I knew that the shot would be fine and we give them a good life, you know, whether we were together or not, that if the kid would have a very good life. But I was like, look, I got I want to write a book. I got to you know, and they's not one another baby at that moment, right. And not not to cut you off, but I think that's also a misconception that people often take when it comes down to pregnancies, is that you should have taken the proper

precautions before you've gotten pregnant. You should have used contraceptive, then you could have used the Plan B. Here you you did, you use the plan being it didn't work, so you still had to make a tough decision. And I think it's hard for men. And I'm speaking for men because you know, realistically, it's difficult for men to ever feel comfortable telling a woman what to do with her body. But it's also difficult for us to understand

what you guys go through through pregnancy. I didn't really truly understand until I watched my wife go through pregnancy of how it changes your entire the trajectory of your life, everything. So I think these stories are important for for not only women to be able to share, but for men to hear, because unless you've gone through a pregnancy with a woman or your wife, you don't know what women

go through. So I think it is important and I applaud you for sharing because men need to hear this, especially if there's gonna be men making decisions, which to me is just ridiculous. I think that's the that's the hardest pill to swallow with this whole thing, is that we have a whole team of men who are making decisions over women's bodies when they I mean, regardless of your pro choice, pro life, that's what women like you can't walk a mile in our shoes when it comes

to our pregnancy is our bodies. And I would never I would never want to be pregnant or have a baby. I'm speaking from a man like for me, it's easy to see why a woman would say I'm not ready to have a child. I am not ready to go through, especially if you're in a career phase. I get it. I get it. I watched you go through three times and to hear your story, you were you know, you were going towards a bigger party of career. So I

understand and our applogy. That's I really appreciate you sharing that. But I do have a question, though, what do you say, because part of your quote you said that people are kind of discrediting your right to your humanity. What do you say to those people who say, well, what about what is humane about getting rid of a child? So to me, I I respect and affirm people's various religious beliefs.

I think that you know, in a country where we have a separation between church and state, we can't say you know, the life again your birth because that's not nically true. Right, that's you know that they can't be argued, it can be debated. And again, knowing that there needs to be access to safe and legal abortion because there are times where the mother's life is in crisis, or when the child's life you know, is not going to

serve for the child won't survive. So you have to go through a pregnancy knowing that the child is not viable, you know, and you're getting bigger and your body is going through all crystal changes of pregnancy, knowing that the baby can't live outside of your body, right when you could have saved yourself that trauma, you know, and it's terminated earlier, or you know, in a position where you could die right about. So there's a there's this need

for that. And I think that people who feel otherwise from a wall ethical standpoint, have a choice right, which is to not have an abortion, which is to not partner with a woman would be willing to have an abortion under any sir. That's agreement between two people, you know, And I think that that's what's important. If we are only partner putiple that you know, we can say, hey, this is where I feel and this is how I stand.

And that's not to say that things can't change, because a woman can be like, look, we've got four kids, and you know, I thought I'd never be willing to terminate, but I just can't do this for my body again. Yeah, no, I totally understand that, Jamila. What's one thing that you want young women, especially within our community, because that's the platform that you have to take away from the conversation around these abortion laws. Um, you know, what's what's something

that you think is the most important thing? Because I also read an article recently from the Associated Press that talked about the nation's birth rates last year reaching record lows for women in their teens and twenties, which tends to be the age when most women do have abortions. Um. And that's like I think the fewest babies have been

born in the past thirty two years. So what you take away from women who because you know, this is a choice, and the biggest thing here is that the it's not even for your pro life or pro choice, it's the the fact that the choice is being taken away from the woman over her body to be able to govern over her body. Um. So what do you say to young women in the community about this. What

would be the biggest takeaway? Yeah, I really want all young women black, you know, young black women in particular, to one be politically engaged and aware to vote, but also, you know, black women's maternal health outcomes, and this is the thing I think you mentioned in your femail, but this is certainly a thing throughout the My friends are so devastating that the United States remains on with the United States remains to cop to lift the countries with

uh you know, top ten countries in comes of maternals. Yes, it's only in it and it we have to recognize that it's only because of Black women. It's not because of the death of white women or not black Latino women. Yes, that those groups, you know, white women particular, even though they're having issues with the chill and birth rates and black semen are having infertility issues that aren't being talked about, like be clear, but that there, you know, but their

maternal mortality outcomes to improved. Ours have not. And it's not just a matter of inter poverty because for years, if so, why is maternal mortality and the mortality rates so high for black women and so oh, it's because it's team pregnancy and poverty. Well, Peain pregnancy rates have

gone down drastically over the past twenty years. So it's not that la and it's not and it's not class college educated high earning black woman who has pre natos care is more likely to die as a relate die red three or four times when I said that related to pregnancy related issues, which means it doesn't have to be during the pregnancy, that can be within a year

of the birth. So a air Garner's daughter, for example, the herd condition that took her out of this world, you know, it's something that would be attributed to her pregnancy. We don't talk about dots and enough are like you there or four times more white me not just on white women, but then white women that are only high

school educated and did not have preinatal care too. Yeah, because there's to talk about, absolutely, and there's so many other things that we haven't touched on, like this whole right wing narrative that's perpetuating that you know, having access to abortions means that the black race is trying to be eradicated slowly, Like that's one thing that I've heard recently, or even just the other the other side of it.

If they make it illegal to have an abortion and it's now a felony, that takes the way you're right to vote. Well, there's so many different ways that this this whole conversation can go um, but we appreciate you so much for taking the time to even just touch

on this. I think what you're using your platform for is amazing, because, like we said this past weekend, we need more forums and more arenas to be able to have these open discussions and ultimately it comes down to to research and knowing your rights and and realistically, ladies, I appreciate both of you because as a man, a black man who talks a lot, who loves to talk, it was good to listen to you guys speak about

this and actually learn while I sat here. I'm never really speechless, and when I sat here learning so much. My wife's been doing research about this for the past couple of months and listening to you talk about it. I appreciate both of you. Guys. We have to have you on this show to do a full show about this. We appreciate you. I love that. It's really cool they I want to say thank you all for using your

platform for this, because I know how easy it. You know, y'all are couple goals and family goals and grey and they inspire us all. But I think this uglier. You know this more complicated side of parenting and absolutely definitely and the road to that. So thank you so much, Jimmie, La have a great rest of the day and we thank you, thank you. So we're going to talk to Kenneth Montgomery. He is a lawyer born and raised here

in Brooklyn. Yes, we love Kenny, have a great history with him and his family, and over the past fourteen years, he has successfully litigated and defended clients charged with everything from murder to drug possession, weapons possession, rape, grand larceny, conspiracy, identity theft, sex abuse, and so much more. And it's important to point out that first Kenny started out in

the prosecution. He was in prosecution. He learned a lot about while being a part of prosecution, but then, while being a part of prosecution, noticed how many black and brown men and women were walking through the doors. Kenny is just dope. His family is dope. His team that he works with is dope. Um, their team is my entertainment lawyers. I keep it at home because that's my people. You know, I trust them, I respect them, and uh, I can't wait to talk to Kenny about this now,

this would be dope. And of course Kenny will tell you a lot more about himself when he's in and UM, yeah, you know it's going to be a heavy loaded topic today, but I think it's very necessary, thank you said earlier, Devout. It's a part of millennial parenting because you know, again we don't profess to be experts on everything, but we

do like to at least open the dialogue. And that's the purpose of this podcast, I think, ultimately, regardless of what the topic is, if it's something lightweight, if it's something heavy, if it's something that provokes some sort of thought and can help you to engage in conversations with your group chats or your friends or your family. UM, we're just hoping that whatever you take away from here, that it will then open up the dialogue which I

think is so missing within our community today. Is all right, So without further ado, let's jump into this conversation. We have Kenneth Montgomery with us in the building. Straight up, I'm literally straight out Queen Supreme. Today today happened to be I gotta get used to this much. Today happen. Today happened to be Queens, And I came straight here.

I'm very um honored to be here. Were honored to have my favorite my favorite family vice versa you and your family, your wife, I love and adore your wife, and we have our own little history. I didn't even know that. Yeah right, we found that out kind of happenstance one day when I showed up to do her makeup. I was like, girl, She's like, yeah, I was at the park with you. I was like, what real quick? Roe v. Wade is going to be challenged, or it

is being challenged. The most powerful thing that Trump has in his toolbox is the ability to appoint point these federal judges. Um, these federal judges people don't understand, and this so called civilized society, even even not Supreme Court,

federal district judges are lifetime appointments. So unless they die or move on there there, their job is He's gonna put in his group of people to break apart the civil rights bills, the Roe v. Wades, all those conservative hot bench issues that are dog whistling topics for millions

of white people in this country. And um, that's what's gonna happen, and and it's it is happening, And UM, I think it's ridiculous that in two thousand nineteen and the civilized society that I find it appalling that a man would determine what a woman should do with a body. It's like, it's like discussing the racism you can it's scary, literally under attacking so many different ways, so many different ways. So talk a little bit about why you went from

prosecution to defense, that's easy. Um, you know, my motivation for being an attorney was I had read Malcolm X's book really really early, his autobiography, and it got to a section um where he wanted to be an attorney, and the teacher told him that he had to be

a carpenter, like black people didn't become attorneys. And I think that was driving with growing up in New York at the time that I was growing up, which was in the seventies and the eighties, and wondering why my neighborhood looked like that, Like I had the feeling as a young kid, I didn't know why that something had happened that was really bad and it was beyond our control. So that resonated with me. You know, Malcolm X wanted to be an attorney, that must be something serious and uh,

and that was the start. So then when I got to law school, Um, I always was good. I think I had good trial skills really early. And James Cohen, who was my professor, a great lawyer, had told me, with my skill set, I should challenge myself and although I wanted to be a defense attorney, I should go to a rigid environment where I had to train myself. And he was the person that first suggested I go to the district Attorney's office. Um, and I I went

to Brooklyn. It was Brooklyn or Manhattan. I went to Brooklyn because Brooklyn had more crime, you know, and I'm from and it was you know, it's such a diversified borough, you know, two million people, all kinds of things going on. So I was like, let me go to the district Attorney's office really to be the spook by the door

and get the information. And then when it was my time to leave, leave, Can you explain the Spook by the door Because I people asked me about here's a great book and film by Sam Greenley called The Spook Who Sat by the Door. You could actually see the film and its entirety I think if you if you google it, and it basically is a story of how this one agent, black agent became an agent for the government,

but his real it was to overthrow the government. And it's a little the book is even deeper than that, but it's a great film. And I went there and I knew that I wasn't better than anyone, but no one was better than me. But I also knew that I brought a skill set that most of my colleagues didn't. I grew up in Brownsville, I grew up in Crown Heights. I know what it's like to be in those situations. I know what it's like to assess the case in

the manner that my colleagues didn't. To a lot of my colleagues, even some of the some of them of color, it was almost like they were going to the zoo. You know. It's these gangs, these bad black guys, Hispanic guys, and you can see it. You said earlier that you looked at your neighborhood and you could tell that something had happened that made your neighborhood like that. But what did you mean by that, because you know, growing up, you know, at the time I grew up, it was

these vacant lots, buildings. I'm like, how did this happen. It was almost like a bomb had went off in the neighborhood. I go to school in the morning, Um, the people addicted to heroin or slouching. At eight in the morning, I come out for lunch. They still live, they just a little bit lower. I come out after school, they're there. They head is almost touching it, Like this doesn't make sense because my teachers are coming to school

from Long Island, beautiful teachers I had. Actually they weren't trying to save the natives. They were uh, these these young Jewish women at the time, who I think they understood what happened as well. But I know when I watched different strokes, Mr Drummond crib didn't look like that, right, right, right, So I'm like, what happened? And then you know, so you know, my life's journey helped inform me of what happened.

But I went to the d A's office so that I can be the best trial attorney on the defense side and the civil rights side. I can be that, definitely, And it was challenging though. I remember me and Mike Choi, one of my good friends, had had to approach the bench and this old school judge He literally doesn't look up. He just says no, defendants aren't allowed at the bench. And Troy was he just turned beat red. He didn't apologize, he didn't he kept it moving. And isn't that similar.

I told a microaggression story similar about a white woman saying to me when I was with my son, or it must be your day because I was in the park with mine with with jackson, and it must be your day to be with your son and if and I had to explain her, no, I'm married, I have kids, And she didn't apost. She was just like, oh yeah, because he wasn't in here to hear that story. But

it's almost exactly the center, you know. And and and for me it was challenging because I had to and I ultimately left because I had got what I wanted or I needed information time the information, and um, you know, it was a good experience. I understood what happens politically, I understand why this system is the way it is. And it also helped me to develop a skill set that to this day. Um, I can do something for my clients and I can give information to my community.

You see, That's that's the key, and that's something I always talk about with my kids. Right, if you're playing chess, if you're playing football, anything, the first thing you have to do is understand your opponent. If you're the oppressed, you can't defend yourself if you do not know you're oppressing. You have to understand the mindset of the oppressor in

order to release yourself from oppression. So many of us don't even think no, and it's it's difficult for us because I think for us, many of us and this this crosses um. You know, first of all, the dominant thing about European history in Western culture history and particularly it's centered on white supremacy, and a lot of people get upset about that, but that's what it's centered. And to continue that system there has to be a d

programming of indigenous people, African people. So for instance, in America, you know you are likely to you lose if you're supposed to be successful, you're likely to lose your connection to your African heritage. So if you don't know African heritage, you don't see the value in learning anyone's heritage. And I think our children feel that. ANDREWS. Hudey Junior High School. I went to honey. All of my teachers were Jewish, and there was a point during African American History Month

where we were still doing ann Frank my mom. Now, my family is from the country, South Carolina. They grew up fighting, they marched. My mom was the first class in Madison to be integrated in the seventies. So my mom heard about She was on the projects all the way to Madison and they had to run out of they couldn't heard the bus. They had to run out every single day. She was in high school for the

first two years. So when it comes to educating and she was like, you need to know about black history. So it's now it's like the middle of February and I'm like, yo, I understand, you know, the Holocaust is important, but it's Black History Month. Lady blacked on me, how dare you the Hollo that was the biggest atrocity that ever happened. Kicked me out of class and called my mom. So I was like, Yo, if you would have called my mom on this situation, go ahead. My mother came

there and let everybody in that school have it. And the sad part is though we did, we did Black history for the next two weeks. We did Martin Luther King, we did, we did. He definitely did Peanut and in the middle it was March first. That was back to the Holocaust. And what I'm saying is is that if I didn't have my parents to teach me about those things, who was going to teach me about black history? Yeah.

And it's funny because my parents, like your parents, migrated from the South, um, but they were of My dad migrated from deep South Alabama. Like literally he had family members killed by the police, hung on crosses, um like, very like, and it had broken him. Uh. In my opinion, his life was basically he was broken. But my mother is like, yo, she said, be smart, and I bet you they can't do anything. A lot of people don't understand that when they say that, realistically, one black person

cannot change anything. You can go up there and fight, or you're not gonna change anything. You have to be smart. We don't have an ideology, and that it's very frustrating to me. You know, I represent people on death row and charged with federal capital murder um. And and also you know I've represented people in the entertainment stuff and business.

You know, black people have been exceptional since we got here. Absolutely, Can you give us some examples of cases that you worked on where there were clear cases of social injustice where you've seen blatant discrimination with black and brown men. Absolutely. Um. There was a recent case that everyone seems to be interested in of the Bronx one. It was a hundred and twenty individuals taken out of Eastchester Gardens projects in

the Bronx and charged federally with crimes. I represented one of the individuals in that case I heard about who got time served. That case was a clear overreaching of the federal government to label people as gang members, to to just remove them from the community. The majority of those cases were not violent, no guns, it was just marijuana. Get them out. Absolutely, and we don't understand how the policing now is targeted to certain neighborhoods. That's how they

do policing now. So that was one case. There was another case of some years back of a bunch of young men in Brownsville were arrested for a rate, an alleged rate that was really going in the direction of the Scottsboro Boys. And it turns out that this was on the Ken Thompson's administration. Uh, it turns out that it was absolutely false, and fortunately all those young men were released, but they were all put on television, put

on television their faith. It was a lot of them because people were comparing it to the Central Park five and and in the old case called the Scottsboro Boys, that was a case one of my clients was involved in. How do you keep the energy too? Because that's draining. I call you and you you just sound out of it and you like your I just got in my mind in case right now? How do you find the

energy to continue to fight? Um? You know what? Because I think if this system is the system that they they say it's supposed to be, then the presumption of innocence should should count for everyone. And in my experience, the presumption of innocence doesn't count for everyone, particularly in federal court. So my job, the most revolutionary act that I can do, is to stand up for those people who that presumption is not supposed to work for them.

So my thing is, when you're in your current role as a defense attorney, the system is so set up, like you said, for us to fail, how do you tell how do you educate young people to exists realistically in the day to day where the system is set up for us to fail and get caught up in the system. That's a that's a great and and something I want I want to be clear on. I'm not you know, because people say, oh, he's just a defense attorney talking. I'll speak to those who are about math

and mathematicians. Um, if you put a quarter in a video game and you won that in the computer one cent of the time, you would be like, Wow, no matter how good I get, I'm gonna lose. Think about this system that we've created, this legal system. We we didn't create it, this legal system in America that that exists going to trial on a federal level, of the defendants lose. That that has nothing to do with how good the prosecutor is, how good the defense attorney is,

the judge. That's systematic. So you know, one of the things that I have to do is, Um, I realized that no matter how good I am, I'm just putting a band aid on a gunshot wound. The things that I have to do have to some have to exist outside out of that courtroom because because once it gets to that courtroom, right and you know, some of the cases that I had, and once it gets there, you know, I may get you out this time. But the stigma that's attached what it does, it does after spetical social

media forget about it. So my goal is to put myself out of business and to put all of these prosecutors out of business. And the way that that has to be done is we have to start going into our communities. So it's not going to happen in court. It's not the legal system. These lifetime appointment federal judges and these political hack judges on the state level, they make sure that system stays in absolutely. So as a parent, you know, we have a lot of parents who are like, hey,

can you help me parent through this? How do we help those parents who has a young young man a young woman at home? And say, okay, if you want to avoid these pitfalls, this is what you do when leaving the how? This is what you do one approached by a police officer, an authoritative figure. How? Because because I got it's a two part question. The first part is that part, you know, what do we tell parents on how to how to educate their kids if they

if they're in public school? So some some parents can't home school as tell as they work. How do we educate our kids? You know, you know the parents. You know, it's unfair a lot of times, because I think back to my childhood. My mom was working her butt off dealing with my pops and his brokenness. She didn't have a lot of time for my nonsense, as bright as she was, so unfortunately, sometimes you know, these kids are brought into a situation in the world that they didn't

actually ask for. So how do you do that? I think there has to be an awareness in the community where we have to stop being afraid to talk to one another and knock on the neighbor's door, or you see a kid doing something off and you keep your mouth shut like it now, I couldn't walk out in the streets back in the day without some somebody saying something.

How dare you? You know? I got into so many fights growing up because my mother was one of My mother was Miss Barbro in the neighborhood, and you know, my mom was a trouble like she just any kid doing something, she has something to say. So when I come outside, the kids is like, your mom, won't you tell your mother? Mona business? So I'm fighting I'm getting, I'm getting I'm getting to fight protecting her, and then I get a beating for fighting in the street. It was.

It was a mess. But but we don't have that. We don't have that. We don't have a village. Everyone's mining their business, you know, kids that don't want to be listening. You can't go to Upper East Side and start pulling young white males out of their car or stopping them on their skateboard and out of all and coke or heroin, all those drugs that they do. You can't do that because you know what will happened you

do that, You make that a pattern. Then that local congressman, that local police department, that community meeting, they're gonna have problems our community. We don't have that synergy, and somehow there has to that synergy has to be created. That that to me, is because there's no one being held accountable. That to me is part of the issue. You know, you never want to blame the oppressed for being oppressed, but I feel like at some point we lost our weight.

You look at the civil rights movement and we watched together, we joined the spectacle. And the fact is my grandmother just there all the time. The worst thing that ever happened in niggas is they gave and because because integration was it was you know, people always talk out Brown v. Board of Education. Your Brown v. Board of Education was a very bad decision in my opinion for black people because because because kids was really deadly about it that

a lot of people don't get to talk about. White people had to accept, Oh, you're gonna alright, my kid is gonna have to sit next to your kid. Alright, we're just gonna harass them, We're gonna throw stuff on them, blah blah blah. What they weren't willing to do. They weren't willing to have their children taught by black teachers. So pre Brown v. Board of Education, it was probably

about eighty two hundred thousand black teachers. Once that decision came down, those black teachers were cutting and they lost their jobs. So and that was imagine, imagine three or four generations of teaching our own children. Imagine three or four generations of what Malcolm and and self Determination and

the Panthers were talking. So that had to be you know, America had to get rid of anything that even appeared to be black and nationalistic and we're seeing what we live every day is the result of having lost the war. Because you think about now, when things do go wrong in the social media era, everything is just like a hashtag. Everyone's so upset. You're so upset at the moment, and then what happens after that next the other day, I was a good friend of mine just got an acquittal.

And we always laugh because you know, there's something you don't never hear me talking about in a quiddo. I got, It's that's easy. I'll talk about the losses. I'll talk about those other challenging things because it's nothing to be learned. Like, I'm not here to self promote. I really just want to be a vessel for change and and and putting

in my work to change this narrative. To be honest with you, so, I mean, I know we was short on time, but I really want you to talk a little bit about what you're doing to help changing that. Talk about Brooklyn, all right, we got we have Brooklyn Combine, which is a group of us who came together. Um too. We recognize the social, political, economic, and academic alienation in

our communities because we all came from different ones. And we are designers, lawyers, creatives who have come together to mentor and provide curriculum and into underprivileged neighborhoods like Brownsville where we're from, you know. And also we have programs. We send children in our Brooklyn to Alaska program. We send young men from Brooklyn to Alaskas and a half wings to learn to land. Uh. You know. Just we're doing as much as we can to um create critical thinkers,

the next generation of critical thinkers. You know, I applaud you. There's one thing that I've I've learned following you for the past I think it's been eight nine years. You don't play the blame game. You never sit back and say, oh, it's white people's fault. He's like, what can we do that? Change? Listen, I'll call our history. I'm in these federal courts every day. I sit on these judiciary screening committees where I interviewed the judges. I sit on these death penalty groups. I

see what's going on, they see what's going on. Right, the best thing we could do for ourselves is to educate ourselves and to stick together and innovate and create something else. You know, Ken Man, thank you. This is the first time we're literally chipping away at so many different topics that we want to cover on the podcast.

But with the current climate in our society, local, you know, national, we just felt it necessary to come into touch on it and introduce everyone to you to know that we do have people who are on the front lines and the back lines every day. You can find me in in all five boroughs in Federal State all the time. But but my um my Instagram kJ M p LLC and my Twitter I think is e s Q Montgomery alright and if not google them. Thank you guys just

means a lot to me. So what we're hoping is that after this conversation today, or these conversations that we've had with Jamila and Kenneth, that it now opens dialogue

and conversations between you and your friends. So whether it's in your group, chat with your family over dinner, we can now create a forum for you all to now talk about these things that are happening within our communities or within your lives, talk about experiences that you may have had different microaggressions and how it's made you feel. I think the biggest takeaway here is to make sure that we're talking about it, and also arming yourself with

the education needed to defend yourself. You know, we're all trying to exist in America while black, so make sure you have the education needed to arm yourself so you can live a great, normal life. Before we get into listening letters, we're gonna get into some ads. Stay tuned, we'll be right back this For the record, there it is a win for the ages. Tiger Woods is one of our most inspiring sports icons. In his story, it

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what if it's been completely wrong? All American Tiger is out now listen and Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast app. We're gonna switch gears and get into these listener letters. So listeners today are not necessarily about what we've spoken about, but I want to make sure we hear from you all. So far getting some good feedback. So this first one that jumped out at me for today, I'll read a little bit for you. It says I was told that I should get married before I have kids,

but things turned out the other way. My husband and I had a baby before we got married. Our daughter just turned a year this month. We got married on September four. Sorry, we got married on February fourth, two nine. And it's been a challenge because my mother in law lives with us. Oh my goodness, my mother in law and I have not known each other that long. So we just need to figure out a way to communicate better and not step on each other's toes. Impossible, but

I don't want to. I don't want me and her to keep having these issues because it can put a strain on my husband and relationship. Just needs some advice, please, yo, this is dead aspects I'm about to give you right now. So both of our moms are very involved in our lives. Right my mom has involved. Her mom is involved, but we've noticed a difference in the involvement, Like my mom

is nowhere near as involved at my house as her mom. Is. One of the reasons why my mom said to me she didn't want to be involved is because she didn't want to be known as the meddling mother in law. And I understand it. I understand it. You don't want to be overbearing. When you're a mother in law and you're in your daughter in law's house, you don't really have that relationship. Whereas mem Kay's mom, that's her daughter, that's that's her mom, Like they have that relationship. So

it's a little bit different. I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest and say, I don't see how that's gonna work. Yeah, I don't know what your current situation is and the reason why your mother in law is living with you. I would like to know that, Um, why is it? Is it because she's helping with the baby or is it because financially it makes sense for you guys right now? Like, what are the reasons why she's living with you all?

And I mean, honestly, my mother has also said to me, and she's even said this to me as her daughter in the house as I was getting older and trying to like assert my you know, independence, and I would you know, say something a little sly or maybe in the tadbit she would take his disrespect. She would then look at me and be like, two women can't live in the same house. So that being said, sis, because

you and your mother get it. I mean we do, because sometimes too, she'll come in, you know, ever so passive, aggressively, and you know, talk about the state of my house and the condition of it, you know, and mom, I'm like your mom, like I got three boys and a husband, like I'm the only woman in the household, Like you should understand my apply and give me a break and just come here and not say anything. And and you know, she'll always say it comes from a good place, canean.

But sometimes you don't want to hear that. So imagine not wanting to hear that from your mom taking it a step further to trying to hear stuff from your mother in law. So that's gonna be tough. But I do think it's up to your husband. Don't put that on him, No, don't don't put it has to be a thing where you know, you have to also have the communication with your husband and if you feel uncomfortable

with the way things are moving in your household. You should not have to tiptoe around, and you should be able to speak with him, and that way he can then in turns maybe speak to his mother, you know, and then three have to come together and speak about it. You don't think that's that's necessary. I have to know first of all. I have to know why she's living there, for example. And the reason why I say that is

because we don't. We don't know if it's a must think, if it's a health issue for her, if they need the help. We don't understand. It's hard to give her advice. Yea, we don't. I need a little bit more context. But I will say this though, right, being a man in the house and the women in my in my mindset, it's a woman's house, y'all, handle you know when she k creates the funct she makes like, there's certain things I don't want to argue and debate about. I just

want to exist. I want to get my sandwiches when I need my sandwiches. I might want to drink here there. Other than that, I let you do her thing and she can rock. Right, anytime you have a man in the middle trying to control two women in one house. It's never gonna works of all, are not going to control any women anyhow, Well, first of all, you don't want us she he needs to interject interjected injection is not a matter of control. You can be yes, why

I said he can't get involved? Can I se go ahead? Baby? It's not a matter of controlling the situation. It's about him now being able to somewhat mediate or engage his mother and his wife, whether it be separately or together. Because control control and tell them what to do. You put in a hunted on ten. I didn't say tell them what to do. I said control the situation. If the situation is getting out of control, to mediate the situation, then whatever words you want to use, say, I'm not

going to argue about semantics of words. It's this is why he can't get involved. They're two adults. There are two adults. They need to is their house or the first thing? This is the funny thing. The first thing I said was that it was the women's house. Okay, I agree, But you want to argue me about the word control When I manically said it's your house, I understand that, but it's the way you formulated the thing it's like, it's not going to You're not going to

control the two women. It's just an I didn't say he was going to control the women. I said control the situation first and foremost. How is he going to win? He can't tell his mom what and he can't tell his wife. It's not a matter of winning, though, But when we talk about transparency and communication that people should have within a relationship, whether it's a marriage or it's a parent child relationship, I think it is up to

him to be the one to create the dialogue. Because she said they have not known each other that long. He knows his mother longer than he's known anybody. Understand that baby knows ways to communicate with his mom that can be effective. But that transparency has to come from the two women. He can't always be in the middle saying listen, listen, they're two grown, adult women. I agree they have to be able to be adult enough. I agree with get involved, because I'm telling you right now

he cannot. And I'm telling you as a as a man like you, you always say to me, don't man splain right, don't woman splain? I cannot tell my wife how to feel about my mom. And I cannot tell my mom how to feel about my wife. I agree with that, y'all would have to get I would understand that I would have to step back and say, listen, I love y'all both. Y'all gonna have to learn you're gonna have to deal with this if this is the situation.

And that's part of the thing that bothers me because we don't even know why she's living in you see my eyes closed. I agree with what you're saying. I'm just saying, since she's concerned about the strain on her marriage with her husband, and she has not known her mother in law that long, I think the husband should be the one if he knows that it's a concern for his wife to say, hey, maybe we should sit down and have this conversation. So let me let me

tell you how this goes. Because you're not a husband your wife. Husband goes to mom and says, my wife feels the first thing the mom was probably gonna do is get defensive. I'm telling you, I'm telling you as a son to a mom. If I go, listen, mom, my wife feels like then it's automatically even have to be posed that way. It could just be like, hey, we the three of us have to coexist within this space. How about we sit down and get to know each other a little bit better and we can then open

up conversation. Just to make it comfortable for them, let me ask a question. It's not about running to mom and being like my wife said x y Z or want to and my mom said x y Z said that he should listen. This is all I'm saying. I feel like if my wife and I we chose to be together, I would feel like, you know what, my wife can approach my mom in a way that's respectful, and if they're going to build a relationship, I'm going

to allow them to build a relationship. I don't feel like I would need to mediate because I trust this woman who was my wife. I know my mom. I'm letting them is two grown adult women. I just know that from being a husband and speaking to other husbands that have issues with mother in laws and wives. When he whenever the fathers get involved with the husbands get involved, always gets worse. It always gets worse. I guess you're

speaking from some experience that I don't know. I was just saying, I mean, you know, some of the situations about mother in laws and wives and how it's always like whenever he get involved, it is he's taking her side and he's taking this. So yeah, and I don't think it has to be a side being taken thing either. I think people you should be able to just have a conversation and say, this is what it is, this is how I feel, and how do we plan to

move forward and co exist in this space. But again, we don't know why they're together in the space that they're in. We don't know why. You know, the mom is living there. So it's tough. It's tough. But being a woman and knowing what it's like to have a mother in law, you know, there's a way that the mother in law. Yes, like your mom is very detached from us because she doesn't she's fearful in the middle

metal and she's been the opposite of that. And then you live with my mom who is now in the house, you know, doing her thing when she comes over. But it's different for a daughter with her mother in the house. Yeah. So and you would normally address your mom with situations because I'm like, I'm not I'm not gonna address you. I'm not gonna dress your mom, you know, like that's that's normally what you'll do. But we do have conversations.

You have an open line of communication with my mom, and if I feel like you feel a way about something, I feel comfortable enough to talk to my mom about it as well too. So I think that comes with time. Though. Think about how long we've been together together, seventeen years, Like she said, you know, they literally don't know. Yeah, yeah, sorry, sis, sorry, we had more information. Maybe if we got more information, we could know how to to better give you our

take on it. Um, all right, they go to the next one. I've been married for almost a year and I love my husband. I'm sure who are married, and I'm confident we will make it through anything. The issue is sex. Although I find my husband attractive, he is not someone who likes working out, and he is about two inches shorter than me. He's also not into being super romantic or any of that stuff. How do I navigate the sexual space when there are a few things that act as block aides M Do I force myself

to have sex? Do I keep telling him to be healthy and romantic? Do I just let it go and we have sex every now and then help you can speak on that baby is you feel like you never get it enough for me, so go ahead and tells us what to do, all right? So this is I mean, hey, the facts are the facts. This is yeah, the facts are the facts because I know, I know how it feels want to have to force yourself to be in the mood to have sex, and that ship is wacked.

So yeah, and the ship is wat to have someone have to be forced to have sex with you and is wack. Right, So it's back on every level, back on every street. The funny thing is that she said that's very different is that she says she's not attractive attracted to her husband. He doesn't like to work. But she said, although I find my husband attractive, he's not

someone who likes working out. So I think she she that was oxy more ron right there, although because you felt like you had to say it, but clearly, if you're saying that he doesn't work out, then you're not attracted to him in this moment. And it's two inches shorter than you. So when you can wear heels, like, how does that work? Do you wear heels or do you wear flats? See, But that's why I think the

situation a little bit different than ours. But with the sex situation, I'm very open about codeem with what I need and what I want. So I would tell you if that's your husband, he's supposed to be responsible for handling all of your sexual needs as your husband. So you're gonna have to say to him, Bro, we're in this together for life, life. So if you want to be in this together for life, I'm gonna need you to pick up the slack on these things. I'm gonna

need you to work on this, you know. And that's just me. I I'm all about candor, I'm all about honesty and upfront. Ye are, so tell them you sure do? So get some lifts alright where Tim's more often, but she says she two inches on him, So he gets the double Soul team. Put a lift in there. Now that's a good three inches. Now he toiling in her and she could be in the bedroom exactly and flops.

You know what I'm saying. He worked out a little bit, because listen, if you told me as my as my wife, if you told me, like babe, I really want you to work out, I'd be in the gym every day because I've wants to have you maybe tried to you said, do I keep telling him he needs to be healthy, But are you helping to ensure that he's healthy? Are you working out with him? If y'all are in this together, let's see, are you helping him to make those healthy choices?

And you know, doing workouts together so that way you can work out in the bed together, like getting at it, getting at it um and then yeah, you know, romance and spark, that's something that I think every woman wants. You know he's lacking there, right, you gotta tell him be romantic. If if he wants to have sex more often, he should put the energy into being more romantic. If that's what. If he wants more sex, he should try

to be more romantic. And if you still don't want to have sex after him trying to be romantic, you have to be honest with him that you know, this is not really what I want to do, and then you're gonna you guys have to make some tough decisions. Becaudana and I have been there. You know, I work out all the time. I'm tolding her I try to be romantic, and sometimes she still don't want to have sex, and I'll be like, yo, what is wrong with you? Bro?

And she's just like, I don't, I don't know, but we we do have three kids and niggas be tired, you know. And there was a point where she talked about how she was she wasn't comfortable within her body. Hormones is like a roller coaster, so there's times how it is. But your last question said, do I just let it go and we have sex every now and get no, don't let it go. You can't give up if you're married. There's no letting anything go. I'm going to do not let it go. Insight right here, listen

to this inside. Your man knows when you're having sex and don't really want to have sex, and the ship is whack. We know, I know for a fact when Code is like, all right, let's just have sex, even when she tries to act like she's in the mood and I was like, you really wasn't in the mood, and she'd be like no, no, not necessary at this point, So you can get this screw face out of here. Man, be happy and happy. Sometimes you're gonna take that booty

just like that too. Sometimes you're just gonna be like, you know, don't make the best of it. Fine, but you better come back a little role play and be like, yeah sometimes you know, you know, she act mad or whatever, but just talk to each other. Yeah, you have to. You haven't do it for you, do it for your marriage. You know, we're suckers for love and people being happy though authentically, and I think you need to have the conversation and know those conversations an't easy. They're not easy

in our house, so it's not gonna be easy. I don't want you to think that we sit there and laugh about these conversations. No, these conversations be real in our house, and they often last about three or four days. Yeah. I mean we've gotten better, We've been able to like cap discussions and go forward, but working on it every day is a work in progress for us. All good luck, baby.

If you want to reach us and ask us for some advice so you can end up on our listening to, let us, make sure that you email us at dead Assi Advice at gmail dot com. That's d E A D A S S A d V I c E at gmail dot com. Even if you want to just drop more on some school and just let us know. Hey, we love you guys. We appreciate those emails as well. All right, So that wraps up our listener letters for this week. Those are two nice, little juicy topic to talk about. UM, so about tell me, this was a

very loaded, heavy episode. Um what was your moment of truth or your takeaway from this? My moment of truth is is very simple, is that it's difficult to be black in America. People have to stop acting like it's not. People have to stop acting as if it's gone, you know, like we hear all of these excuses of all get over it, already, get over this. No, people still go through a lot on the day to day being black in America, and it's okay to admit that sometimes you

don't feel comfortable being black. Here that's my moment of truth. Also, I want people to know that you don't have to live in that truth and just feel sad. Educate yourself on how to get through that and find a way to help it so that you can pay it forward. Because our children shouldn't have to exist the same way we exist today, and the only way we can change that is to educating ourselves and giving them the education

they need to be better. That kind of ties into that's joke, that ties into I guess my my moment of truth or my takeaway from this, UM. I think in talking to both of our guests today, UM, one thing that I love is that they both are using their platforms to be able to speak to the masses, to be able to educate people, to speak about their real life experiences, and how they are now using their platforms and their their arenas to reach people. You know

Kenneth who is with UM. You know his program that's reaching out to kids the Brooklyn Combine, who are showing UM, black and brown men different parts of life that's outside of their community, men and women, men and women. Great, I missed that part, So that's amazing. UM. Just showing them life outside of their the confines of their immediate

community is so important. UM. And you know, just making sure that we're we're researching and educating ourselves, even just about the women's rights segment that we spoke about, and how us as women need to take UM as much control as we can over our bodies and over our maternal rights for health care and and things of that nature.

So UM, thank you so much again to our two guests who really gave us a lot of insight about both topics and UM, I think as a community we can work together and we should be doing more of that to at least on a local levels, start to change things, um, you know, more immediately because everything starts locally. Yeah. Three episodes in, so we're just gonna want to find ways to make this better and better for you guys, because you're with us for the long haul, all right,

And be sure to follow us on social media. Cadean I am, that's k h A D E E N I am, and that's I am Devout I A M D E V A l E. And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to rape and subscribe and spread the word. Dead as dead Ass is a production of Stitcher's produced by T Square, Stephanie Karauke and Dinor Opinion. Our executive producer is Chris Banning, and we'd like to give a special thanks to our recording engineer Jared O'Connell,

our sound designer Brendan Burns, and studio manager Ashley Warren. Yeah, we're back. I'm Drew McGarry and I'm David Roth. We have a podcast going on right now as part of the stitchen Everywhere called Abstraction that's available everywhere. Get a podcast at Stitcher, Spotify, Apple, Go. Listen right now to the Distraction, right now. It's out. Do it, please,