Be My Escape Not My Obligation

but not really see them. I can honestly say I see how people get to a point where they feel like they need a sigh piece. What don't look at me like that. I didn't say that I agree with it, but I said I understand dead ass. Hey, I'm Cadine and we're the Ellis's. You may know us from posting funny videos with our boys and reading each other publicly as a form of therapy. Wait, I make you need therapy most days. And one more important thing to mention,

we're married, Yes, sir, we are. We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want to talk about through the lens of a millennial, married couple. Dead ass is a term that we say every day. When we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts. One hunted the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And we're about to take philow Talk to a whole new level. Dead ask starts now.

Two thousand and eleven, we just had Jackson, and I had made a conscious decision as a man that I was going to turn in my car, start taking the train, and focus on building the business. Codeine was working full time at MAC and I felt like I would doing all the right things in my life as a husband because this was going into a year of us being married. And for the next three years, Cadine and I spent all of our time focusing on our business. She was

building her business, We had a son, Jackson. I was building my business. And by two thousand and fourteen, I turned thirty, and at that point I had realized that it had been three years that I hadn't taken Cadine on a vacation. We hadn't left the country, we hadn't gone to another state. We just hadn't done anything for

ourselves to kind of pour into our relationships. And I had to take a step back and say, wow, how did how did I get to this point where I focused on everything in the relationship except the person who the relationship was supposed to be about. And at that point I had I realized like I was present, but I really wasn't present. That's when you say why, I'm surprised she didn't do X y Z me. Can you focus on me? I'm focused, baby on focus on, focus, baby?

Can you focus on me? Listen karaoke? Because y'all sense the pain in my voice? Y'all sense it, sense pain? You sense pain? Right? It was definitely pain in it. It was painful. Yeah, yeah, very painful, very painful. But I got the point. I gotta figure out whose idea this was for karaoke because I swear I can't hold it. No, if you hand it to me in the palm of my hands, it's sing into the list. But y'all get the point. We're back, Yes, welcome back. Thank you all

for joining us again for season two. And here we are fast forwarding because we've been so busy this past summer with moving. Our whole relocation develops been away filming in Atlanta. I've been with the kids in New York. It's just been insanity. So there were times when you came home for a weekend and I was just completely not in tune with you, and I was like, I don't want to hear about anything you need right now. What I need is for you to help me pack

some boxes. I need you to help me do this with the kids, to do that with the kids. And we had a kind of a rough spot this summer since you and I this summer was extremely rough, and if you follow us, you could tell because we didn't even post as much content, not only because we were busy, but also because we weren't feeling each other. I was not feeling condemed. We're talking about focus or lack thereof of focus. I mean her, she's talking about I don't

want to give up. I just want you to get up, get off your phone. I'm a little fed up. I just wish you were focus. And there's so many times in our relationship, Devol and I have said and we were able to admit that we have not been focusing with the intent to really dive into each other. Um. And we had an experience very recently that triggered this

entire episode. Actually, yeah, it was. It was great. It was actually a really really great episode, a great experience that we had NFLP A couples retreat, and um, there was a young lady I can't remember her name, is gonna try and pull it up. She's an acting coach and an act and an actor, and she put us through this process that they said that actors who played married couples on television, they go through this process to

build a connection. So she decided that she wanted to take that same exercise and apply it to marriages so that so that people can actually see their partner that they're living with. So in the exercise, we had to face each other, you know, knees close together, hold each other's hands. We had to just look at each other's eyes and not say anything for like the first nineties seconds,

and then within the first twenty seconds, Codeine started crying. Guys, let me tell you, she pretty much was like, look at your partner, face them, make eye contact and just look at them, see them. And in that moment it hit me like a ton of breaks. I have not looked at my husband in his eyes and really saw him and so long. At first I was like, damn, I make you cry, Damn, what am I doing? No,

it was a good cry. It was a good cry, and it was also kind of an alarming cry for me because it was like shit, like you have not looked at your husband in his eyes and just taking a moment, and aside from just looking at you, it was just the idea of us not being distracted by anything else. There was no other outside noise, there were no children, there was no phone, there was no social media,

there was nothing. It was really being present with him, and though there were other couples in the room with us, there was nobody. It felt like there was no one there. That's important. People don't understand when you first start dating someone and you're in college and you're on scholarship and your girlfriend's on scholarship, there are no real world problems that can interject themselves into your relationship. So when you

see that person, there your escape. You know, my my issues At that time where football professors, hers were residents because she was a resident director. It was school, it was internships. So when she got away from all of that, she came to me in order for me to get away from all of my football and stuff. I went to her, So we were each other's escape. And once you leave that aspect of life and then you have bills, you have start getting everything. That person that was once

your escape now becomes your obligation. And the funny part about it was that was the first time in a long time that you and I legitimately sat there and where each other's escape from everything. Absolutely absolutely, it was really really an amazing weekend. We were there with a bunch of other couples and it was a safe space for us to really just kind of dive into each other and yes, you know, reconnect. And the young woman's name was Nirvania like Lasagna. Her name is I am

Navonia on Instagram. I A am n e v A I n A. That was the young lady who put us through this process to kind of help us get back to connecting. And um, it's funny because there's a song out that we were talking about doing karaoke. Kadina and I were talking about possibly doing Weekend by Scissor, and she was like, um, why would we do Weekend by Scissor? That's talking about I was like, that's the

whole infidelity episode. That's what she said. And I said, I said, for real, because it's real, and she's like, what do you mean? I said, think about it. Most of the times, when you come from where we came from, being each other's escape in college, and then you get married and you become each other's obligation, you're often now looking for the escape, right, So you're looking for that rule, which has become so cliche, but you're looking for that escape.

So after we left this nfl p A event, we had a hotel room and we enjoyed each other that night in every aspect of enjoying as you can. And it's funny because um, the young lady that was our contact for the nfl p A, Leslie, was like, y'all are gonna want to stay for this session? Because our session was before hers. She's like, you're gonna want to stay for the session and that baby that people are asking y'all for, that little girl just might happen tonight.

And I was like, you know what, if that's the case, it was meant to be, let's just stay and um Nirvania like Lasagna, we don't have to name that baby after that's the case, And The funny part is was the next morning you had to get up and I had to leave and fly back home to be with the boys who had to film the next day. And you woke up and you said thing, I felt like, I felt like, you know, I was your side piece

because you know, we we slept together last night. I woke up in the morning and to leave before you woke up. I was like, let me pack my bags. I showered and stuff. I was leaving the hotel, like, oh my goodness, this feels like I feel like I'm leaving my little joint in the hotel and felt great. It allowed us like we missed each other, but we we escaped from everything that was bothering us and allowed

each other to be each other's side pieces. And the funny thing about it is I could I could definitely understand how people look for that little bit of heaven outside of their relationships or because as we got into life, we really did forget about each other. There were days and that goes back to the story that I told in storytime. Um, I really did forget about you because I was so focused on my job of being a husband.

So then my job of being a husband became so much more important than actually being connected to the person I'm supposed to be married to. And that leads me to a couple of questions that I came up with exercise. Yes, came up with a couple of questions. I know your mind was working after that whole exercise, you were like, it wants to be a good podcasts. And I'm going to tell you why I was working because as a

millennial married couple, historically men don't share their feelings. So it's always about, oh, the men work too much, they don't pay attention to their wives, They're not focused on their wives, and as if vice versa doesn't happen, and also as if it's supposed to just be acceptable when it happens to a husband. And you and I have had many conversations where I felt like I don't have my wife, and I wanted to ask these questions and we can both you know, we can both answer these questions.

So the first question is have I always been your escape? Always? No, okay, but you have been at certain points elaborate So, I mean we've been together for October will be seventeen years um. And yes, a lot of times I look to you for like refuge. Um, you know, if there's a ton of things going on at one time, I need to be able to prevent to you about certain things. Are you being my sounding board for things? If I meant the crossroads with a decision that has to be made

or just life. A lot of times that happens. But I do feel like sometimes I unfairly unload a lot onto you and don't reciprocate, and that when you do some unloading, I am not as active and trying to find a way to help you deal with that, and it maybe I would have to agree on that, And it may be because sometimes I'm just so self absorbed and selfish in that moment, which I can now admit that. But having had arguments with you and conversations upon conversations, Um,

but I've come to realize that sometimes like that. But that's more me telling why you weren't. I want to know when? At what point? Because I can lead me to my second question, at what point did I stop being your escaped? Like at what point in our relationship did it go from? Okay, I can leave Devout from class. I can leave class and go run to Devout and just be in heaven. So it's like, at what point

did that happen in our relationships? Okay, so I think you know what, I'll be honest, it probably happened after our first child, because I feel like at that point, now I had to divide my time with you, and I was becoming mom and wife and you were so focused on being husband and provider. Like you said in your story that things became very methodical with you, and it was just like, yeah, well that would be nice, but I have to go to the gym, and I have to do this, and I have to do that.

So I was caught between a cross sort of feelings. Super Like, I respected your hustle in your grind, so I felt like I couldn't complain because I was like, here, I am able to stay home with our son, you know, leave my job after Jackson was a year and a half. Um developed afforded me the opportunity to say, hey, I don't enjoy this workspace anymore. UM, I want to be

home with my son. And you made it pretty much single handedly possible for me to be able to leave that environment and then be at home with our son

and be a sole caretaker of you. Guys, And then in turn, you were working so much that at that point I felt like I couldn't even get the devout that I remembered in college or devop You said, I just have fun, So sorry, so allow me to kind of receive this, so you appreciate it what I offered, But it was my prioritizing and not my ability not to balance me being a provider and being there emotionally, absolutely, and I felt like I was gonna be a brat,

Like how could I, you know, living the lifestyle I was living at the time, not like there was anything super elaborate, but I had everything I needed and most of the things I wanted and you were providing that, So how can it then in turn be like, well,

do you don't spend no time with me? I want you to stay home with me, and you know, let's just sit here and do nothing together and enjoy each other and just be a lot of times, that's how it couldn't be, you know, And this is this leads us to a bigger conversation, because that's just to answer that that that question, you know, go back and forth. But that's how I felt as a man trying to be a provider, you know, like you here all the time. It's like, yo, be a man. Your wife is having

a baby. Being man, man, go up there, do the right thing. And when you're trying to do the right thing and you're spending time building a business or that, your wife can be a mom and have the autonomy over her life to make a choice of whether she wants to work or not. And then you hear, well, you don't spend no time with me. It's like, yo, so what am I do you want me? You want me to I can be home and spend time with you, but now you may have to go to work now,

you know what I'm saying. So for me as a man, it felt like, damn, I'm damned if I do. I'm damned if I don't. Absolutely, and you know, and that kind of that kind of put us at odds a lot. And we were going through that, you know, that time in our space. And that leads me to the next question. I mean, let me hear you. We can we can go back and forth on this, you know, like you interrogate me over here, because I got questions I got do you do know? I mean, have I always I

know I haven't always escaped. Ask that question with a straight face. I know I haven't always been your escape. At what point did it stop for you? This is gonna sound funny, right, because when you you stopped being my escape. When I put pressure on myself to be a provider. Okay, when we were in college, right, I felt no obligations. You are scholarship. I was on scholarship. You.

You know, there was nothing that needed to get done because our lives were taken care of once I started playing football, and I felt the need to have to take care of you because you had to live with me, We had to pay bills. At that point, you were no longer just an escape, because then you became sponsibility, responsibility. Like it was like, yo, I asked you to move to Detroit with me because you were still in school. This is what I have to do. And that was

of no fold of your own. But I was conditioned to feel like this is on me, and at that point it wasn't. It wasn't as much one anymore. No I'm not I'm not gonna sit here and throw it on you. No, I'm not going to drop the ball here. I'm not gonna throw it all on you. You know, I'm saying, there were times where I felt like you were being a brandon, times where you made you made

yourself an obligation to me. Um, But I felt like I put that on myself, and I felt like I let society tell me as the man, I have to do all of these things, and you have to take care of for almost like you were a child, almost, And at that point you wanted my escape no more because you were at home waiting for me to come home. And then I got home, and then all you had

with stuff for me to do. And then I remember one time in particular where you were up for the reporter search and Kadin, it's very spoiled guys, and she had kept winning and she kept going and started with four hundred people, and she was into the top of a hundred, then the top fifty, then the top twenty, and it got to a point where she had to go back every day and it was a competition. I no,

I was going for a W D I V in Detroit. Yes, at the time, they were doing a traffic reporter search, so they pretty much had a bunch of people come to them all and Um, from that, they were picking people who they thought had the possibility of gaining, you know, getting this job. So I made it from like I forget how many people auditioned like four something down to like top ten, and then I was in the last because this is the thing that's what you can tell

school for broadcast. And I was like, all right, this is And then at the time, I had left everything in New York to come to Detroit to be with you at this point, so I was just like, well, I feel like at this point, I'm obligated to find a job because what I'm not going to do is sit at home and just like not do anything. And I appreciated that. I appreciate that because it was a point in our relationship there where we were at a crossroads where we were like, are you gonna live with me?

Because you didn't want to be She told me she didn't want to be the girl to live in girlfriend while I was playing ball, Like she just felt like that was just not the role she wanted to take. So she wanted to work. She wanted to get back out in the workforce. So I appreciate that. Yeah, and I'm not spoiled. I was just finished the story, like I finished the story. Can I finish my certain? Can I finish my story? You you said you said I could jump in finish my story. Now you're not letting

me straight ahead ahead. So now she's in the top ten. Right, every couple of days she has to go back in and film. So she needed a new outfit. At the time, we lived in Philmar, Michigan. But what was the name of the mall? It was We lived in a housing complex across the street from Fair Lane. More So, every time she won, I said, let's go to Fair Lane and get you an outfit. That wasn't enough from my

accustomed wife. She had to go to the huge mall twenty miles away in a different part of Michigan because they had more stories. They did have they had the Gucci de Fend, the Louis stores. It didn't have to be expensive. I just needed more selection. Fair Lane was like the hood spot. It was like the King's Plaza. If you don't know New York, it was like the Kings Plaza versus like Roosevelt Field Mall. She says, she's not spoiled. Somebody can't find a whole outfit in a

whole mall. It's not spoiled, it were inappropriate. There was some people and this happen. And I said, this is what she was like, you talking like a child. She was like, good for that. I said that. I said, there's somebody you're competing against right now who does not live across sheet from the mall, who does not have the means to go to the mall every time they win. And that's what you're competing against. All right, Abraham, so

many sons and daughters. You can figure out. I said, you can figure out what you got in this closet, or we can go to the mall right, And I was like, nobody going to take it to the more. Every time she said to me, my mom would take me, she would because at that point, you felt like an obligation because I still had practice. I still had I was still playing professional Football's like, just give me the card and I'll go on my own. That was and

that was not he knew early on. He was like, oh damn, damn, So how do we deal with this reality of what it is not being each other's I mean, we, like you'll know, we speak very candidly to each other, and we've said time and time again, this is like our therapy session, so us being able to speak candidly about this. Um, it's not a problem. And now that we know that this is the reality, how do we deal with this? Well, the first thing is we have

to talk about how it affected our relationship. When you stop becoming someone's escape and you become their obligation, things start to go away. And the first thing that goes away is intimacy. We weren't hugging, we weren't kissing, we weren't smiling, we weren't watching movies together, so that connection was gone. So with that connection being gone, intimacy at all was gone. We weren't having sex like that, Like,

we weren't feeling each other in that way. I think over the course of our relationship, we have several points where we felt disconnected and we've been able to say it. And you may have felt disconnected to me in certain you know, points, and then vice versa, and then a lot of times too, I would look at you and be like, damn, I didn't even realize, like we haven't hugged or kissed in however many days, or I didn't realize that we were actually disconnected. Do you feel that way?

Because I'm one that gets very involved in like the day to day, like, oh my god, we have this to get done, not to get done, the house, the kids that you know, and there's so many things that go through my mind that I just kind of moved from day to day sometimes and not really soaking and stopped to smell the roses, you know, just saying quote unquote, because I feel like of the two of us, I am more aware of when we're not intimate, and I

think that's really the gauge. And when it's been to three days that we haven't had sex, that's what that is. That's not only that's well that that ultimately is the gauge of how we know. But it happens before that. I've said to you before, like how many days you're gonna come here and watch the movie with me and

just fall asleep? And that's even before sex becomes an issue, Right, I get an attitude where I'm like, when's the last time we've been to the movies, when's the last time we watched the show, when's the last time you've given me a hug. I'll say those things before that, and then when it's like, yeah, we have sex in three days. Then you're like, oh, it's always about sex. I'm like, no, it's not just about sex. But you hate when I

bring up sex. You get very divinsive when I bring up well, I mean too because sometimes for me, intimacy does not have to lead to that. But we've spoken about that on past episodes, where you know, sometimes the intimacy for me can just be like looking in your eyes so way I did that day, or just you know, holding each other's hand and laying next to you. It sounds nice, gentlemen, don't that sound nice to you? Yeah, but that's sometimes Sometimes I don't want all the extra stuff.

I just want to like, you know, but sometimes that getting though, like sometimes and you've admitted to it, sometimes us attain it's been two weeks and we haven't hugged, right, that's the problem. That's the problem. That's pretty that has nothing to do with sex. I asked you, like, when's the last time you've hugged me? Right? Or even even more important, because you know how I am about my food, but when's the last time you woke up in the morning and just made me breakfast? Weeks I get super

angry that don't got nothing to do with sex. But I'm like, yeah, when the last time you made me baking egg and cheese on cinnamon amazing like you used to, and maybe like this you'll make it. And I'm like, I don't want this version of this baking naked cheese. I want to the real one that's used to make in college. Right, but you were a couple of pounds. You're trying to gain weight now now you don't want no dad Bob, so I can't be making you bak bakon naked cheese like I used to. We're both on

a health kick. So so you know what's funny though, because we missed this question, what was your first response to this revelation? The first response to this for me is to shut down. The first response for me telling you that my first to the revelation that we're not connected and to the revelation that you are no longer my escape obligation, my first revelation is to shut down because I don't want to feel like a burden. So

I'm like, you know, I'm not gonna say nothing. I'm just going No one wants to feel like they're being obligated to, because then it loses this authenticity and then it's not organic anymore. And we've said that before, like you don't want to feel like now has to put on for us to then be connected. But then I noticed that nothing happens because if I don't make you aware that I feel a shortain way and I just shut down and you're used to us move been like

ships in the night. We just continue to move like ships in the night. Absolutely, you know what I'm saying. My first as to the revelation be like, oh, ship, how do I salvage this now? At this point? Because usually when it gets to that point, I know you're already in your feelings about it, You're upset to an extent um, And it's really like a kind of clean up for me, like damn, how am I gonna now salvage just and clean up what this mess that's pretty

much made? Um, So it's like waves for us. But but that's but that's what leads us to the fourth question. How do you deal with that reality when you realize that I'm no longer your escape? What do you what do you do? What do you say to me to make me realize that? I mean, usually at that point, um, I then have a desire to want to connect as soon as possible or as as fast as possible. And for me, I can start right in that moment, be like, you know what, let's just put everything aside and do it.

You don't necessarily operate that way. I feel like you're you, You're kind of you want to be upset. I want to be that likes to be upset, and he likes to just like you know, be dramatic. And he'll leave the room and I have to go follow him out of the room and then like text me from the other room and then I have to come and it's like a back and forth. Like he likes this whole dramatic.

Definite husband is definitely an actor. He'd be practicing his chaps with me all the time because I swear sometimes I'm just like bro, nobody wants to be dramatic. But I also just don't want to argue, So I gotta let you know that I'm upset without talking about it, because you you like to argue. You like to argue despite it's the most exhausting, most draining thing is having to argue with you. So if I can avoid an

argument with you, I am going to avoid it. That's why I'm like, you know what, let's let bygones be bygones. I'm at the point now, and let's just I'm going to put my husband voice. I'm going to say, you know what, baby, you right, don't patronize me because you argue right, don't patronize It is not an argument. It doesn't is a discussion. Everything develop wants to label as an argument, things will have to be an argument. It can require just simply discussing it. Okay, you got it.

Moving on anyway, So after the whole retreat that we were on, it really got us to thinking about what are the ways that we can now show those levels of intimacy or the levels of being seen again that we've either kind of you know, felt by the wayside over the years or are just non existent. Um so, what are some things in addition to the bacon, egg and cheese, but excluding sex, just little things excluding sex. Hey actually said excluding sex, because we beat that dead

horse so much. The dead horses never it's always beat for a woman. It's never beat for a man, and it's never beat for a woman when another woman is involved. The whole other podcast episode, but it's the truth though, women want to downplay the role of sex until we start talking about sex with someone else. You can say

excluding sex because it's convenient. But then if I say, all right, I'm gonna talk to this other women to do all the stuff, but we're not gonna talk about the sex we had, We're gonna talk about all the other intimate ways you wouldn't you. I'm talking about it in the context of this relationship at this segment that we're talking about. Now, we already touched on sex. We

touched on the bacon, egg and cheese. So what are other ways that intimacy can be involved where I can show you that I'm in tune with you other than bacon, egg and cheese and sex. That's what I said. Well, this is the big this is the biggest thing, all right. First of all, men want to feel wanted the same way women want to feel wanted. You know, women talk about it all the time. I want to feel pretty, I want to Men want to feel as if the person that they chose to spend the rest of their

life with wants them all the time. You know what I'm saying, You don't. You don't want to ever feel dismissed in your own home, and that really has not not everything to do with sex, but you want to feel good like you want to You want to feel like, damn, my woman wants me. So what would that entail for you? What are some things that I can do or things that may be done in the past that I don't

do anymore. That shows a level of intimacy, that shows you know what Kadin has tuned into me, Kadin sees me, or maybe there's some things that you desire for me that you don't get. Yeah, well, I mean that also comes with change, because I mean I've changed over time and you've changed over time. So the first thing is communicating those things. But it's just it's small things like you walk in the house. You've been at work all day, right,

A hug would be nice. A kiss, not the garbage, you know, not just the valley's boxes need to be taken out. There's certain things you just want to walk in your home and feel welcomed, like there's no If you do this all the time, I'll feel real more intimate. There has to be a presence there and and for me, I feel like it should be your job as my wife to work on figuring those things out for me. Like if I gotta put down a laundry list and give it to you, I'm dating myself, you know what

I'm saying. Like for me, I try to focus on the things that make you feel good as a woman, and I myself try to make sure that I know those things so you don't have to constantly tell me. As a man, it's annoying to constantly tell your wife all the things you need. Nobody want to do. That means, yeah, exactly, I wouldn't want to give you a list of things either too. I completely get that, I understand it. But socially it's been on the man's like, no your woman, no,

your woman, but it's never been vice versa. They don't normally tell women, you know, pay attention to your man's feelings and his needs, because that was seen as not masculine. You know what I'm saying, It seems not master you're a man. Man up. If your wife don't want to do this, man up and deal with it, it's like

that doesn't work. It really doesn't work. You want your wife to know, you don't really want to have to say it right, you know, So you'd be happy if you know, you come home from work and I just like, you know what, there's a ton of stuff and now it is to be done. But let's just let all that fall by the wayside, but just for tonight and we can just be that would that would feel good sometimes we can. No, I'm gonna be honest, that would

feel good sometimes, because that ship is never gonna end. Like, there's always stuff to do in the house. So the minute I walk in the house and you're telling me ship they gotta get done tomorrow, there's gonna be more ship they gotta get done. So just just saying like, there's always stuffy gotta be done so we don't have to worry about the intimate. See, that's that's not a good excuse, because that wasn't a good enough excuse for

me when I was doing it to you. It's not fair that because I'm trying to build this I can forget about all the things my wife needs. That's not fair because I can dial it back and think of that time when I felt like, yeah, literally coming in, coming out and not doing and I was definitely guilty of not only that, but throwing responsibilities on you and saying something, well, you're my wife, You're supposed to make

sure this is done. That's just not cool, Like husband shouldn't do that to their wives neither, you know, even even making sex and obligation not sex. Now you want to talk about sex that you see his guys. Now she want to talk about sex. But I just co sided off on what you said. I mean for me, little things that I would like to see. Now. It's funny because up until maybe like a couple of months ago, the thought of having anybody touched me unwanted or unnecessarily

was like, just please don't touch me. And I think that's because I went from having Cairo and then when he was six months old, I got pregnant again, so I had a baby in me and then on me breastfeeding, and then I was had a baby in me again while I was breastfeeding Cairo, and then I had another baby and he was breastfeeding so cast and it was literally somebody always touching me. And it was a while. There was four a minute I was like, could you

because somebody do not touch me. But now I feel like postpartum is a distant past and I want you to start touching me again, but not you see that sound bite. I just took that sound bite. I'm gonna have to put that on a loop. I'm gonna have them put that on a loop. And I'm just played. And when you just started touching me again, I wanted you. I can hear it now, I can hear it now repeat.

But no, and not touching necessarily with the intent to just always the one I would love for you to just like you know, I love when you just like grab my shoulders and my back or give me a massage because you know, I've been in the gym, so you know. Um. But no, like a little massage every now and again, or just pulling me close to you, or like when you used to hoist me up on

top of the countertop. You like that, Like things like that exactly, and those little things that reminders like okay, I still got it, and you know my husband still looking at me, and you know I'm giving you the green light to do that. Let me tell you something, right, what's up physiologically? When I hoist you up on the counter You're not the only thing that goes up. That's all I'm gonna say. Because you don't want to talk about sex. Doesn't want you to keep that in mind.

I get it. Just say little things like that would be cute. But I have a question for you. Right people want to know, is monogamy the answer? Now, for some people, monogamy is not the answer because you're never going to find that one person that's going to do everything that you want all the time. So the question was, was monogamy the answer for us to I'll answer this

because a lot of times it's for men. They want to know, because men seem to be the ones that want to go out there and explore, right, monogamy, And I'll answer for me. You can answer for you. But monogamy is the answer for me. But it's not for the reasons that people think. I want to be monogamous because I feel like I'm my best version of myself when my focus can be on one person. You know

what I'm saying. I'm big on legacy, I'm big on family, and I feel like the most healthiest way for me and the children is if I do it with just one person. You know what I'm saying. I have things that I want to do for myself and it's the most selfish thing. Because people say Oh, if you're not being a monogamous, you being selfish. I think I'm being monogamous. I'm being selfish by wanting to be monogamous because I

really am thinking about myself. I want to be great in every other aspect of my life, so I need that focus to be there. So I need to be focused on one person to build the legacy of family with. So for me, monogamy works for me because that's what I went out of my life, right. I don't think monogamy works for everybody. I honestly don't. I don't. I really don't agree. I agree. I mean, for me, monogamy

is there. I don't think. I think even if I was not married to you, I would probably still I'm like a serial monogamous, Like even yeah, that's what I want. I'm just I don't think I would be the one that's just kind of into like juggling and being out and being around. I'm a little bit more of a homebody, especially now, you know. So I just I don't think for me that, um, you know, being out there playing the field as a female was going to be my speed anyway. Um, I agree to monogamy is not the

answer for everyone. Um, the attention that you have to put because I've said to you time and time and time and time again. If I'm not trying to be with you and invest time, and you don't have time for nobody else either. So it's just like, you know, what, what do I look like not being monogamous with you but then finding finding time for other people? That's the case. I could just pour it back into you and really work on what matters. I agree with that, you know.

So I have a question, what's your thoughts on having a side piece? I don't go there with me again because you know this whole Sciopis conversations and came up before and they got us into some issues that I'm good on being a monogamous right, But I want to know your thoughts on just a side piece? Does does that work for some people? What do you think? Oh? Man, that's a case by case. Don't give a blanket answer. What are your thoughts on just having a side piece?

I just think a side piece is too messy. I think, um, there's too much risk involved with side pieces. I think that, Um, it's just too I just too messy. Like me, I just can't I can't I can't process the whole side piece thing. I mean, this is what I think. I can't. I feel like we are. It's two thousand nineteen. It's a completely different time than when marriage was first constructed. So we exist now in a time with the traditional values of marriage and what being a husband and a

wife realistically do not exist anymore. Marriage was constructed during the time when women were just considered property. I always say that women now make, if not as much more money in certain areas than men, especially black women. Black women are making a ton of money. Right, So think about it. If you're a black woman who's all about your career, you don't really want to be married, you don't really want to be a mom, and you just want to have your freedom sexually, right, that may work

for someone like that. So that may wait for for that woman that you just describe. It would work for her to be a side piece. No, it's just somebody that's married. No I'm not. I'm not saying she has to choose to be a side piece. But what if she what if she gets she's involved with someone, maybe they're not married, but she's like, I got my own time, I got my own things. I want to do. But if you want to go get his he can go get here. I mean, in that case, I would think

should be a side piece. It's just that guy would have to have a side piece. You see what I'm saying. If they're in a relationship and a guy but she's like, hey, I'm not going to be around for a couple of months, I'm working on this, blah blah blah blah, do what you gotta do, just be safe, that guy would need a side piece. I mean, if I mean that's whether she wants to be, if that's the understanding they had, it depends on who's the main person and who's not.

Who's that she could pretend be the side piece. If that's all she's in for is a good time every now and again, which she has total control over that and on tok of me over her life, that's great, But it depends on like, I don't know, if he's gonna have somebody stationary at home with him and then

she just sees her on the weekends, don't. That's why I say it goes from a case to case basis because there are different there are different social constructs and socio economic conditions that exist in two thousand nineteen that didn't exist back in the day. And some people don't want to exist in that mold of what it is to be a wife or a husband. And if someone is happy having sex freely with different people, or being polyamorous or dealing with polygamy, I don't feel like we

as a society should judge them. That may not work for me. But if you feel like being a side piece, and that's not just a woman thing, they are dudes who are professional side dudes. That's they go to work. They make their money that they don't want to deal with no woman's issues. But hey, she wants to give some little penis on the side, I'm gonna drop some dick off and I'm gonna leave her husband can deal

with whatever you're drops. I'm serious, because some people don't want to deal with all the issues that that go with the relationship. And I think some people in in their mind may think, Okay, it makes sense if X y Z is not happening at home, I can get a side piece and it will strictly be that. But then what happens when feelings get involved and things that you thought were going to be strictly platonic or strictly

sexual then become more than that. It just gets way too complicated relationships and don't have and you know how you avoid that with honesty and communication. The same way you have to be honest and communicate in a monogamous relationship, so honestly saying you're the side piece, this is what you're doing, this is your role. The bottom line is, when you're dealing with human beings, honesty and communications solves

all problems. The only time people get hurt is when they're deceitful, when you lie, when you have an ulterior motive, But when you're honest from the beginning, you give that person a choice. I think that works in some circumstances, and in some circumstances there are unforeseen things that may occur or happen that then can potentially causes that happens in a monogamous relationship as well. My thing is, there's no rule that says the monogamous relationships work out more

than polyamorous because the divorce rate is above. Definitely, it is no holier than that situation here when it comes to relationship, because we have our fair share of issues too, So My thing is if you can work through your issues in a monogamous relationship, you can work through your issues in the polyami situation. All those people just got

to be honest. I know. I guess it's just it just complicate things more when, Okay, for example, you and I have an issue where in a monogamous relationship is between you and I. But then when you have a side piece or a side side piece or side dude or whatever, then it just incorporates another human beings, feelings and and whatever they gotta say. Like, it just makes it that much more difficult because it's just that many more people communicating or not. But it works. It works

in business. If you're honest and you live a in your truth, there is no wrong in how you live your life because you give the people around you the opportunity to make choices. You see what I'm saying. If I decide at some point, hey, I don't want to live like this no more, and I'm honest with you and I say this is what I want to do, you then have a choice. If I'm going to deceive you, then that's room. So I have a choice to like shackle you to my bed and never let you go. Well,

then you're taking away of my choices. Damn it, you have no choices here, devout, They get it, Cadine, I belong to you. All right, Why don't you just put a bar colde with numbers on my form. That's a good idea. Now we're going to get into some listener letters right after these ads. This for the record, there it is. Tiger Woods is one of our most inspiring sports icons. In his story, it comes with many chapters. I am deeply sorry from my irresponsible and selfish behavior,

but here it is the return to glory. This is All American, a new series from Stitcher hosted by me Jordan Bell. You realized Tiger Us doesn't know who he is best in the history of golf, no question in my mind. And this season, with the help of journalist Albert Chen, we're asking what if the story of Tiger Woods that the media has been telling, what if it's been completely wrong? All American Tiger is out now listen and Stitcher, Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. All right,

now we're back. Let's get into those listener letters you guys have been writing in, and we picked two good ones for today. So let's talk about this first one. You both have been honest about the fact that you took breaks early in your relationship. Can you elaborate on what your brakes looked like and how long they lasted. My boyfriend and I are in our early twenties, and he recently told me he needed to take a break

so he can figure out what he wanted. I know it's necessary, but I'm very hurt and worried that we won't be able to come back after the break is over. Is there any advice that you can give? Man? This sounds it sounds like us like in college early twenties. Um. Absolutely, Codein and I were definitely at that point. We were living together and things were becoming a little bit stressful because we were changing and we both had a little bit more priorities at that point. But I'm gonna be honest.

I knew that I loved Codeine, but I also feared that I didn't experience what it was like to be a single man. We met at eighteen, so at this point now I was twenty one, and I was just like, I've I've never dated, I've never really dated any other women. How do I know Codein is the one. So we had a conversation and I was like, yo, I think we need to take a break. Like we're not talking right now, you know, we're not really feeling each other. I think this might be the point where we needed

to take a break. Yeah, I think the honesty and it is great that he was able to even a to you. Um, I think that's pretty mature to say, you know what, I need a break to be able to just see what's out there, explore. And I'm not sure what the terms of the break are meaning. Is that he just wants to date other people or is it that he needs time to himself. It really depends on what it is. But de Val and I very early on, I knew how much we cared about each

other and knew how much we loved each other. Um. But you have those moments where you're trying to grow within the confines of a relationship and it's not it's kind of unfair to yourself because you're growing trying to think about somebody else at the same time, and in turn that constunt your growth in certain areas. Um, it's healthy to be able to have those breaks. And I do understand the worry and the concern you have thinking, you know, you may not get back together or what

if things go astray? Um, but I think it's better you find out earlier if anybody you know what I mean, don't string it on to the point where then there's resentment that tends to build years and years into it. Because you know, we've dealt with that where we've had resentment and not necessarily towards each other, because we never really held each other to the you know, the confines of this relationship and you can't have a break and

you can't decide if you want to do other things. Um. But yeah, the resentment is still built kind of towards ourselves where you kind of get mad at yourself sometimes about and I get mad at myself, like, damn, I should have taken some time to really just be on my own. And the funny thing is our parents told us that. I know, your mom told you need to focus more, and you My mom definitely told me I was moving too fast in eighteen nineteen with a girlfriend

in college. My dad too was just like you know, like, like, bro, you know you're in college, why don't you just explore a little bit? And I didn't understand at that point what that looked like. But this is one thing I say, as far as creating a break, one thing we didn't do when we took a break was we didn't tell everybody that we were taking a break, because it wasn't

anybody else's business. And the reason why I say that is because once you you allow people to know what's happening, or you put them on alert everything that happens in your relationships, they start looking for things. So all we did was say to each other, listen, we need to take a break, take a time, take some time away from each other. I'm gonna start staying in my room. You stay in your room. If we want to talk to someone else, you let me know you're talking to someone.

I'll let you know I'm talking to someone, and we'll move accordingly, right exactly. And then some people feel the opposite. They feel like, if it's a break, it should be a clean break and I don't need to know that you know what's going on while I'm on my break, and vice versa. But again, that's that stipulation that you have to create within the confines of your relationship. No one can do that for you. Um So yeah. I mean, I think it's necessary sometimes for growth because you'll be

able to see what it is that you want. He can see what he wants. Um, and then you guys go accordingly from there. But being able to have the conversation in your early twenties about something like this, I think is amazing. You know, the honesty and it my my parents, his parents both kind of warned us about it, even we had anton uncles. I said that we shouldn't have gotten so serious so fast. But at the same time, too, you feel like you know everything in that moment, you know,

we're just like yeah, and you don't. We're just like damn YEA, I was right. And it's kind of like this vicious cycle that tends to happen because I tell the same thing to my siblings. I'm sure my you know, when the kids get my our kids get older, will tell them the same things, and you kind of have to learn for yourself. But um, but you're hanging there, guys, and you know and just know that everything you think

you know, you don't know. So I don't think you've run out of time because you're early twenties, like you you got time. But the break is healthy, just be honest with each other. Absolutely, And that's funny because that leads us to the next question. Pleads just to a wife. I am a wife and a mother of six, and sometimes oh whoa six? That's just that number. Just I was like, what happened? And I saw six? And sometimes I feel like my husband wants to pay more attention

to our kids than me. We barely ever get our one on one time. And his response is, we have all the time to do what we want when they get out the house. So my question to you is and my overreacting for nothing, Yeah, I long, I have no time. I got six kids. There is no time with six kids. Oh my goodness. Um, I understand where she's coming from. Ill that I do too. However, I think it's a bit extreme by him saying when the

kids get out the house. I think what a lot of people fall victim to exactly, and I know I fall victim to or two sometimes thinking that you always have time and then God forbid, something tragic happens, or you know, something happen is where you realize, dam, I don't have the time that I thought I had. And the relationship and the children started with you too, So you have to be able to make time to pour into that that is so extremely necessary. You're not overreacting this.

You guys need to find a sitter. I don't know. I have to give you up six kids you'll take too. I was thinking the same thing as I was, like giving them up. You know, see if Grandma take two on fuel take to giving them up, do what you gotta do, or see somebody comes to the house to watch them. But you guys need your time together, and you cannot wait until the kids are at the house. That's way too far and that's way too much time

for you to to disconnect and completely drift apart. So I would not be an advocate for waiting that long. Allow me to provide some perspective. You have six kids, one or maybe two of them kids bound to be fucked up, which means that means they're not gonna be out of the house of one of them going to be living into like dirties. So he tim telling you that they'll have plenty of time when the kids are gone. That ain't going to happen, y'all. I've seen it with

parents with two kids. One of them kids sucked up and they're got be living there, You got to be up. Maybe they just maybe they just like being at home and they just have a little bit of a delay. Did you listen America's family pre pre scandal was the Cosbie's right doctor lawyer. All kids went to college, right, They never got rid of them, damn kids. They were still living in the house with their own families. That is the reality. My parents, Well we're still in my

parents house. Sometimes if that's the case, they leave the kids there and y'all go away. So I told the already, I said, listen, I can't have anything nice in our house now because the kids just everything up like furniture. You don't get anything expensive, nothing cute, because it needs to just be functional and durable. But I told a vow that I would like for us. I aspire to have an all white penthouse rooftop situation somewhere in some city,

maybe Miami or something. But I want to have one of those where the kids never I'm accustomed to a certain way of life. I want to have one of those where the kids won't even know we have it. But that's gonna be our own little like space. That's gonna be all white and I can have everything nice and and white and fancy and yeah, and kids never go there. So yeah, okay, baby, whatever you want, you get your husband and then get your husband to your wife. Man,

y'all get together. But use contraceptive though, because if you're you're going seven eight, bro, it's a rat for you. So you really have you really gonna be in the house. She's seen fertile, she's seen fertile, and you've seen potland. So y'all loved each other enough during that time to

have six kids find each other to get that love back. People, that tax me to be honest, and that's that's you know what, that's my big takeaway moment of true If you're honest and you live in your truth, there is no wrong in how you live your life because you give the people around you the opportunity to make choices. You see what I'm saying. If I decide at some point that hey, I don't want to live like this no more, and I'm honest with you and I say this is what I want to do, you then have

a choice. If I'm going to deceive you, then that's wrong. So I have a choice to like shackle you to my bed and never let you go. Well, then you're taking away my choices. Damn it, you have no choices here, devow. Okay, it sounds good, but that's why I get what you're thinking. I get what you're saying. Absolutely, No, that's a great moment of truth. And I think I mean that rings true in any relationship, any relationship that's with your parents,

with your child, your coworker, UM, being really honest. Yeah, you're right. You can't fall people for the way they feel it's time to be open, Like it's time to be open about relationships. We we want to be open about everything else in the world. We want to be open about about gender, we want to be open about religion, will be open about politics. But then when it comes to relationships, people get very very defensive, you know, like this way or the highway to be open, be open

and be honest. But that's the most important thing, to be honest. Yep, absolutely, I guess my moment of truth, um, in this whole thing, I can it boils down to me. You like my moment of truth is that I Well, now if I haven't before, UM, work to see you more. And I think that's some super super necessary um in

a relationship, especially intimate relationship, so much more. I feel like can be smoother with life, um, with the daily day ins and day outs, if sometimes you just take moments to have that level of intimacy, whether it's just like looking at each other in the eyes, or embracing for a while, or just being completely tuned and like phones off, you know, no distraction, Like I would love

more of that for us. And I think that that little exercise awakened something in me to the point where I was like texting this dude over the weekend because he had to leave to head back to film, and I was like, yeah, I miss you so much, like I can't wait to see you again. It's almost like I fell in love with you again in that moment, if that makes sense. You did. And then you came home and fell asleep while we were watching TV. When last night, but not not to the night before, I

was bad. I was just like, but tonight, I got you tonight. But I was just so happy to see you. Though. When I saw you, it was just like I was happy to see my baby. I was happy to have you back. So my moment of truth is that I am going to be more present, and I encourage everybody present. Um and yeah, and hold me accountable because you know I'll be saying sometimes and it ship don't be happening last night. Woke up this morning over you. I'm sorry, I was jet lagged. I promise, I'm good now. But

listen things. I appreciate it though. You say, be more present and be honest. If we do that, then we can make this ship work. I think we could be more present and be honest moment. That's what we came away with it. Man, if you want to be if you want to be your person's weekend, you want to be their escape, be present and be honest, all right, and make sure that you follow us on social media.

That's I am devout and I am and And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, be short to rate and review because we love to hear feedback what you like and what we can improve on. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button. That way we can do a new episode and automatically downloads to your phone. Dead Ass Dead as dead Ass is a production of Stricture. It's produced by T Square and Dinora Penya. Our associate producers are Kristen Torres and Trouble. Our studio engineers are Brendon

Burns and Andy Christi Daughter. All right now, folks, if you missed our first live show at Essence Fst, have no fear. We've got two more coming up. You knew we were going to do more. We'll be in Philly at Underground Arts on Thursday, November twenty one, and in Brooklyn, New York at the Bellhouse on Friday November. That's right, Philly and Brooklyn stand up. So get your tickets now at dead as podcast dot com. Do not wait before these tickets sell out. Brooklyn, We're back. I'm Drew McCarry

and I'm David Roth. We have a podcast going on right now. It's part of the stitchen netwere called Abstraction that's available everywhere. Get a podcast at Stitcher, Spotify, Apple Go listen right now to the Distraction right now, it's out. Do it please,