Afrodeutsche

Caro C Hello and welcome to the Sound On Sound podcast about Electronic Music and all things synth. I'm Caro C and in this episode we're talking to Henrietta Smith Roller aka Afrodeutsche, a composer, producer, international dance floor DJ, and now broadcaster with her regular People's Party show on BBC Six Music. Afrodeutsche's debut album came out on the seminal electronica label, Skam, and her work as a composer for film has led to being BAFTA nominated. To get us started, here's a taste of Afrodeutsche's music. This is an extract from Haya, a track that we're going to talk about, which came out on her first album, Break Before Make, on Skam Records in 2019. And I'm going to say this is the album that kickstarted her solo music career. Henrietta, AKA Afrodeutsche. Hello and welcome to the Sound on Sound podcast. Hello. Thank you so much. It's really great to be here. This, this is interesting doing a podcast as opposed to radio. It's like, yeah, it's different. Yeah. And you're the one being interviewed as well for change because yes, one of your recent developments is being a presenter regularly for BBC six music. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. I mean, what a job. Um, I still, I don't pinch myself. I, you know, I just think back to when I was buying records like seven inches and now I'm playing them on this show, this, this radio station. And I just think, wow, I would never have dreamt that when I was buying that record that I would actually get to play it on air on a, you know, national radio station. So it, it still feels like a dream. And it feels like there's a real particular passion about music on Six Music, isn't there? Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. It's, I, I heard recently, it's really difficult to find a place at the station. Um, especially, um, as a presenter and I was really shocked because, you know, I, I didn't know that I had, you know, a music knowledge that I have. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've been into music from, you know, day one and sound has been, you know, my language and how I've been able to communicate. And I just have a brain that retains, um, all of this, you know, any genre, um, except for lyrics, terrible with lyrics. So it serves me really well because, you know, the music that I listened to as I, when I was growing up, um, Yeah, it's sort of embedded and I've just got this hunger for sound and dynamics and sound. So yeah, you hear all sorts on my show, David Axelrod this week. Wow. And are you more of a, um, is it more the melody that gets you? Is there any particular element of the music that gets you if it's because you say it's not the lyrics? Yeah, it's, I think it's seasonal for me, bass lines at the moment because That's what gets me dancing. But then, you know, right? That's what we teach in schools. We say, um, how, that's how you remember how to spell rhythm. Rhythm has your two hips moving. Is that true? Oh my goodness. Innate. It's innate in us. Yeah. It's the baseline at the moment. Um, but, uh, followed by the drums, but then followed by synth lines. It's a combination. Yeah, it depends on the track as well, of course. Um, brilliant. Well, let's give our listeners a bit of a potted history of how you got to where you are now. And obviously broadcasting is only a small part of what you do. So, um, I'm going to let you start and then I'll add any other prompts if necessary. I always find this really tricky because, um, actually I will start with this. Someone recently said I was a polymath and I didn't know what that was. So I Googled it. And turns out I am a polymath. Um, I just find that sound is where I begin. So I grew up in Devon, grew up in the West country. And, um, I always loved to record things that were around me. My, my mum gave me a cassette player that, um, I ended up just recording everything. And I had a scholarship to, uh, play violin at the university. So I played violin, um, until I was. It's 12 from the age of six and I didn't realize what was happening at the time. You know, I took this test, um, this aptitude test for music and sound, and suddenly I had a violin in my hand and I was having lessons and yeah, it all sort of began there and you know, I wasn't actually making any music. I was just listening and recording and collecting really. And. Uh, I left, uh, Devon, moved to London when I was 18, um, and went straight into the music industry. I was working at 19 Management for Spice Girls and S Club 7 and all that, and I still wasn't making any music, but I had just had this hunger for, for music, and it wasn't until I moved to Manchester Um, that I started to make music, um, and I had friends who made music here, um, Graham Massey particularly sort of took me, took me on really, and just gave me lots of opportunities to play instruments, you know. I didn't have a drum kit, I didn't have a bass, and I remember one time he said, um, we're doing this thing with Paddy Steer on the radio, and do you want to play bass on it? And I'm like, yes, why not? I needed to find a bass and learn how to play bass real quick. And I did, and that was kind of the beginning and he kind of, you know, gave me all these different opportunities to sing and play drums and the same with Paddy Steer. And that's sort of where the music making began for me. Yeah. Did I mumble? Not at all, that was wonderful and that's given me plenty to feed into. So, I remember the story you told me about how you got signed to Scam. Yeah, I mean that's crazy. Um, I was in a band called Silver Club. Hiya Duncan. Uh, and, uh, we had a rehearsal room in, um, Ancoats. And they had this, they had these parties going on in the basement and we'd gone to this party and I kind of got bored, went up to the rehearsal room and was just playing on the drums and just, you know, chilling out. And the nature of this studio was, you know, if your door was open, it was like, Anyone can come in and, you know, chill and make music or whatever. So the door was open and people just started coming in and Duncan was there and, and I'm playing drums and listening to music. It's all happening. And Duncan says, Hey, why don't you put one of yours on? And I was like, Nope. It's not happening. And he was like, just do it. So I, Ooh, I put it, I'm getting hot even thinking about it right now. I was, I was very nervous. Um, and I put this track on and I think it was called the beginning. Yeah. It was the beginning and, um, played it and finished playing. And I came away from the drums cause I was hiding behind the drum kit. And this guy comes up to me and says, um, was that yours? And I was like, yes, that's mine. It's mine. He was like, yeah, yeah, it's good. Um, yeah, maybe you want to send me some music, you know, and I'm like, yeah, don't know, maybe, sure, random human being. Anyway, he leaves. Duncan comes up to me and says, you do know who that was, don't you? And I was like, no, so it's Andy Maddox from scam. And my mind fell out of my head. It was just this, the most extraordinary moment. And I'm so glad I didn't know that it was him and that he was in the room, you know, and, um, yeah. I, I, I started to send him music and, um, I'm not even sure how long I was sending him music for, but the beauty of this label is that he curates every release. So artists will send him lots of music and he'll put the piece together. And, um, eventually, um, we ended up with. Um, and the beginning is on there. It's, it's one of the tracks on there and I'm eternally grateful to that guy because he was behind me completely from that moment, um, without question and still is. Um, and yeah, it's just a label that again, just never would have dreamt, you know, would be, you know, Yeah, in my world, um, to be able to release with them. Yeah. And so, Scam, are they related to Warp or, I know, I obviously know them mainly from releasing Boards of Canada, um, Seminole, Electronica Band, um, Scottish band. And, um, are they related to Warp or are they just, you know, Know each other or something. Am I guess Confuser, I don't think they're related in any way, but they do share, um, people, you know Yeah, people who are into the, into the same sort of things. There is a Sheffield connection, I guess. Yeah. But they are separate, separate labels. Um, but you know. It's all the same family. Yeah, and all the same kind of that sensual electronica, um, that yeah, really resonates. So what kit were you using at that point then when that, when you made that? I guess you would call it super lo fi because at the time I think, was I on Live 9? I think maybe, and I just had a Korg, um, controller, which I still, still use. Um, and I was using Ableton with just the built in, you know, 808 and 909 drum machines and, uh, the Arturia matrix 12 V, uh, synth, um, soft synth. And that was my world. That was my soundscape. Um, and for some reason, Everything was in there. I had a little bit of an accident. Um, I'm not sure what happened, but I think something needed to be updated. And I remember opening Ableton, opening the matrix synth, and this really weird sound was just coming out of this soft synth. And I was like, so I just wrote a whole track around it. And I was like, what happens if I switch this off? Have I lost it forever? That's what happened. I lost it forever. That sound was never to be found again. I did that and then made a track called serendipity rocks. Serendipity. Because you're never going to, you know you're never going to repeat it. There's something beautiful about that. Right. Yeah, I agree. I think it was The Middle Middle. Yeah. That one. That was, it was a tough album that. It was a, it was an album around a breakup. I suddenly found myself, um, without somewhere to live. Um, and was sleeping on my friend's floor, thanks Dan and Fee, um, and their dog, Giz, totally looked after me. Suddenly I was, you know, without somewhere to live and, and I just started making music and was finding myself and I'd found an apartment and this is where this album sort of really began. Um, and yeah. Particularly the track Hi Ya is one of my favourites, but the Middle Middle was a tough one. And when you listen to it now, if you know that it's a Heartbreak album, um, you'll kind of get it. But it's called Break Before Make because that's what happens in a switch. And it was very much like, it was an on off situation, um, and I was to start again. Kind of had to be broken to be made up again. Um, but High Ear is a particularly favorite one of mine because, um, there's a synth line that runs all the way through it where I'm actually crying. That's emulating me crying. And I was crying while I was making this track. And this track came together. you know, bit by bit by bit. It was like layer after layer after layer. And, um, it, the name sounds like it's, you know, ethereal and kind of deep. It isn't. Um, it stands for Habitat, IKEA, Argos, eBay, ASOS. Why? You might ask. Um, because You know, I, I was, I was trying to find my identity. So I suddenly found myself where I used to have a washing machine. Now I don't. I used to have something to sit on. Now I don't. I need to look different. ASOS, you know, going to Ikea, getting cutlery. I had cutlery. I don't have that anymore. Habitat. I'm going to get those cushions that are totally gonna, you know, define me again. And so this whole track. you know, is, is a, is a really important one for me. But yeah, it's a heavy one. And am I right in remembering it's all very textural as well? Yeah. That album. Yeah, I, I find that With synths, I can tell a story. I like to use synths to hold the listener in a place, um, wherever that place is. Um, if it's melancholic, you know, hold you there, but then it will move into some, a place of optimism, and it'll move into a place of hope. But I find that, pads really do that for me. Um, so with pads to, to make them interesting and to give them that, um, emotion it's padded chords. And so then you have these chords that you can either quickly change or slowly change. Um, and a lot of the stuff on that album, particularly I will, I won't sequence anything. I'll play it live. So the tracks where you hear things that sound automated in the sense I'm playing them like this, you know, my fingers are going super quick and because I love synthesis, but I also love the human element. And so I find that when I can't keep up with the drums, there's a little bit of, you know, latency in my playing. Um, and I just feel like that adds the human element to it and also sort of says, you know, I, I, I can't do these things perfectly. Um, and yeah, I think that's another thing I love about this album is it's, it's all played. Um, nothing's automated except for the drums, you know, um, you know, but it's all. There and played. Wonderful. So what about releases? Since your debut album? Really hard to remember what I've done. I do a lot of work in documentary and film and some TV stuff. So often I forget what I've released personally. Um, most recent thing that I've done is for the Black Artist Database itself. It's B dot A dot D. Um, it's a wonderful organization. I think they're based in London. The track is super jungle, but it's like, it's called A New Love. Um, and it is, it's like a discovery jungle track. It's a discovery of love, but through jungle. Um, and I think it's one of my favorite things that I've done recently just because it's a bit of a swerve. from what I think people are used to. Um, I don't release a lot of tracks. And have you programmed those drums? Or have you used sample packs for the actual percussion in there? Because it's so complex, isn't it? The production of drum and bass in Jungle is so complex. All the layers. Yeah, I mean, it's Actually, it's a conversation I had from one of the guys from Alternate. I was like, how did you make what you were making? And they were programming everything. And I use packs, you know. But what I like to do with the packs is turn them into my language. So often I'll use a hip hop pack, but I will just, you know, warp things and, you know, to speed things up because a lot of these, uh, jungle breaks were hip hop breaks and I just love to speed things up and pitch things down at the same time and you just have this lovely swing that you get to those kind of drums. So I, I, I don't like to use packs as they stand. I love to make them sound how I want them to sound. So it's just a bit of play, you know, bit of playtime. Wonderful, wonderful. And you've also produced sample packs yourself with Spitfire, haven't you? Yeah, I did. Um, I made a sample pack called Spectrum, um, which, uh, uses samples from a Kyma, uh, computer. And I built this as a tool for scoring. Really. Um, I found that when I was scoring, I was just making lots and lots of, um, again, moving back to the padded sounds again, they really work well in film. When you are hold, when you're trying to hold a narrative or you are trying to, um, hold a character. in that place or you're trying to remind the people that are watching and listening of that person or that story. So it's a series of, um, sounds and pads really that you can, you can manipulate, but they also create what I call beds. So they're like launch, they're launch pads for the rest of your work. And, um, what I love about this one is You know, you can use it on any controller and I like to use it on my P30, Technics P30. I have a Technics P30 stage piano. But what I love about it is as soon as you use a controller with a full size keyboard, that patch has range across the entire keyboard. It's not just, um, within that octave at different parts of the keyboard. So it's each patch is It's like you can explore it. You might think that you only have certain parameters, but You can explore with it and make your own as well. So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm really pleased with it. I use it. Yeah. Sounds. So, so Kima, tell us more about Kima. Yeah. How do I describe a Kima? Okay. So, um, it was a computer built, um, in America. I'm just going to get her name right. It was built in 1986 by, uh, Carla Scaletti. Um, and she designed all of this, uh, software. And how do I describe it? You can Load any found sound, any type of audio into this computer and you can create your own language around each patch of sound. So things like you've got, you've recorded your voice, but you want to hear your voice as if you are stood behind a wooden door in a bathroom with rain pouring. Yeah. But you create these patches. It is complex in its, in that it's infinite. Um, But it's something that I'm just super passionate about because it was before AI, you know, and it's It's just infinite. So it's it's like going back to uni really because it's just learning a whole Um new language and the interface is super 90s It's really really 90s which i'm enjoying also But it's it's used by lots and lots of composers Um, and. What's interesting about it is it's not a cult, but there are only so many computers made. And so when you register with it, you become part of this list, um, and licenses are transferred. And you actually see the list of other people who own one. Um, there's a convention in America where people go to share their patches, share their designs. And of course, it's had to keep up with, you know, Operating systems. And so, um, I believe now you can use them with iPad. Um, and, um, so you can actually use it to draw in sound. Um, so it's, it's, it's infinite in that, you know, if you start to think about Atmos and other ways of sharing the audio, it's just phenomenal. So, um, Yeah, if you can get your hands on one, do. They're rare, but yeah. So is it a standalone unit, or does it work in conjunction with Ableton, say? It's a standalone unit. Right. Yeah, it's a standalone unit, and so you can record within it, but I've found that recording both in it and with Ableton is the best way. To, to do that. Almost like to back up the work that you're doing because, because you're constantly learning how to use it. Often you dunno how you've arrived at a certain point or why something sounds like it does. Um, so there's a lot of screenshots, Yeah. Going on. Um, and I guess it's, it's a research tool. It's for, it's for the audio scientists out there, um, because you know, a, a lot like Ableton. You can create your own world. You can make it work for you and how your brain works. Um, and I think that's why I chose Ableton over other doors, was because I could create my world that works for my brain. And I think it's the same with Kima. Um, whatever is in your brain, you can, you know, make come alive. Uh, with that language, you just have to learn the language. Wonderful. And so are you kind of exporting what you've come out with or you will continue to compose the rest of a piece still using that equipment? Exporting. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Exporting. It's not a tool for writing. It's for creating sound. It's kind of synthesis, isn't it? Really? It's a different kind of synthesis. It is. Yeah. That's it. Exactly. It's its own kind of synthesis. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Wonderful, wonderful. So how did you get introduced to that then? So it was through, um, some friends actually, um, Michael England had talked about this computer years ago and I know that, um, Orteca used to have one and it was just one of those things that floated around for a long time just in conversation, almost mythical. Um, and then a friend of mine, um, Tom, actually. Um, and I was like, yes, please. I would love to buy this from you. And that's where it began. So it's probably been about almost 20 years of, you know, discussing this computer and then finally actually having one. It's a long time, that, isn't it? Fantastic, yeah, but talk about organic relationship, that's wonderful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So is Carlos Galetti still alive, do you know? I believe so, yeah. Um, I'm, I'm still to find out when this conference is and where this conference is because it's, it's such a global, um, machine. It's like, you know, every territory is different. is creating, you know, works with it and for it. I think some people have, um, also, you know, made their own, uh, plugins. um, based off of it. And so it's, it's worth, it's worth a deep dive because I think the most obvious place that you would have heard Akima is in Transformers. So the sounds that you hear, you know, when they move and turn into the different things, that's Akima. Um, and so it is, it's a wide broad world of synthesis. Or you can get absolutely nothing, which is what happened to me. It's like that. I believe I've done Nope, nothing. Why does it sound like that? Sounds like nothing. Okay, I'll go back again. I can feel a documentary subject there. If someone hasn't already done it, that sounds amazing. Yeah. It's, it's, it's coming into my new works for sure. My new projects. I wonder how your process differs or if it differs really when you're working on say, film scoring or documentary TV projects, or when it's more your kind of, whether it's your electronica or more dance floor oriented music. Yeah. There's, there's so many I've realized over the years, there's so many different approaches to making music. It's crazy. It's actually quite sad because very rarely do I have the opportunity to just make music that is just from me without question. Um, usually there is a narrative to it. So particularly with ad work, um, you have a very, very tight deadline. You have a very tight, um, brief, um, and you need to fulfill that brief. And that's why you've been asked to do that. Um, and so. It can be super tough, um, rewarding in that, you know, time is everything to me. And so by completing something in a very short time frame is something that I, you know, enjoy. Um, moving to film as a whole different world, because again, you have those parameters of you've been, you know, because you are capable, but also that you are to deliver what they need. Um, and there's only so much of yourself that you can pour into it. But I enjoy it because there's always, there's always a visual that you're working with, which you never know what's going to happen. I mean, the last thing I worked on was a martial art film. And, um, It was just crazy just being able to watch all of these, you know, this, these action scenes, but I came, I came up with a process to deliver that kind of work because when you are having to be creative and to a deadline and professional, I have to put it into a framework so it goes a little bit like this, especially if you're working with people in other countries with different time zones, which is usually the case. I get up at 5am, I have a read, I have a coffee, I get my head together and I set an alarm for one hour and I will focus work at 6am For an hour, hardcore. I'll set an alarm for 15 minutes, have a break, I'll go and watch Frasier, it's on TV, or cheers. Come back again, set an alarm for 40 minutes, work really intensely, for another 40 minutes. And I do that in increments that get smaller through, through and through. And by 10am, I've completed a full day's worth of work. And because you're hyper focused in those time sort of frameworks, and it also works really well with different time Zones, because, um, if they're in, you know, LA, then you've got time to send over the stems. They can listen, they can bring back the notes. And by the evening, you've got all of the information you need to start it again the following day. Um, so it's, that is best practice for short deadline, detailed, note taking work, um, for longer, for longer things, longer projects, it's, it's slightly more tricky because you have to kind of figure out how you're going to do this intense writing and delivery because you've got to render stems, you've got to name things, time codes, all that kind of stuff. You've got to figure that out, but also have your life as well. and do radio and, you know, prepare DJ gigs and all that kind of stuff. So it can be really tricky and it can take a lot out. And I've learned that I need a rest period after delivery of work like that. Otherwise I meltdown, physical meltdowns. Yeah, definitely. You have to learn to manage that. I think the one about thirsty in the morning is interesting because I always find that if you can get to things, you know, avoid, don't, don't go to emails, go straight to the station, the creation station. Um, I think you're, you're, you're, This is going to sound a bit hippie or whatever, but I think you're still kind of connected to the subconscious a bit or the unconscious because you're coming straight from sleep. You're still connected to that kind of liminal dream world and all the rest of it, which I find really helps for one clarity of decision making or choice making. So yes, I am going to go with that, but also that Jungian kind of tapping into that before the left brain gets too busy in the day. Yeah. I mean, you've just explained my life. That's brilliant. I love that word liminal as well. Um, that's a word I learned recently. And it's that in between time. And it's, it just, it's, it's a really interesting time when you're in a liminal season, when you're in between something brilliant and, you know, maybe something that wasn't so great. Um, it's definitely a, it's a, creative space, the liminal creative space. And there's a clarity to it. But how do you manage that? How do you counterpoint balance that with DJ gigs with the way you must have to, or maybe you start at 5am there too, do you? It's really hard. It's really, really hard because you have a passion for it, but you're human, you know, and so it's the human part that makes it hard. I'm not a computer, um, you know, It and so I love it, but it is really tricky. So, you know, I just, like I said before, I'm a time person. Um, Setting time parameters helps me function, um, as well as a list. So, to prepare for Korea, I just DJ'd in Korea, um, South Korea, and to prepare for that, I worked backwards. So, I knew when the gig was, I knew when I would be travelling, I knew when my brain wouldn't work. want to be doing anything related to anything else before then. And then I'll just put in my diary. Today's the day you're going to look for, um, Chicago bounce, ghetto tech and then I'll know where I am before I get to the point where I'm actually starting to cue tracks, trying to, you know, figure out which ones are going to sound right in that space to the point where I'm actually practicing that set. Um, so it's, it's, it's a much longer process than I think anyone who doesn't necessarily DJ that often might, might not know about. I would say it takes about a month to put a set together, um, because I never play the same set twice. And that's something that I've always done and found really important, um, for many reasons, but one of them is like, I want to have a good time. I want to have fun. And often I want to share something that I found that works with something that I love to play. So, um, yeah, it's, it's quite a long process. I think by the time I'm actually practicing it, um, it becomes a very, very different thing because. I used to play vinyl and my cues for vinyl were the sleeves and, um, the stickers and, you know, I'd written like notes on things. So, That those were my cues, but with digital, there are no cues. There are no visual cues. So it's very, very audio based. So you really have to, you have to know your music before you play it because otherwise you're just going to be lost. So to know your music takes time. So I enjoy that process, but it's, it's a long one. And there's me thinking that once people have really good DJs, they just throw it together. Which some do, some do, but I think yeah, it's lovely to know that it's that curated really and that much goes into it. Yeah, I've definitely enjoyed a few of your DJ sets over the years. I think it's wonderful. And obviously you can tell you're enjoying it and then, you know, obviously you, you're the DJ. The audience feeds off that as well. It's a collective thing, isn't it? Yeah, and a connective thing. Well, may your wonderful adventures in music and sound continue to flourish. Well, thank you so much for your time today. And yeah, all the best. Thank you. Thank you for listening and be sure to check out the show notes and further information as well as links and details of the other episodes. in the electronic music series. And just before you go, let me point you to soundonsound. com forward slash podcasts, where you can explore what's on our other channels. This has been a Karo C production for Sound On Sound.