Liz Allan [00:00:00]:
Okay. On today's podcast, I have got Anne Snelson. And she's the founder of Lead With Sustainability. So thank you ever so much, Anne, for joining me today on the podcast. It's brilliant. We've we've not met face to face, have we? But we've had quite a lot of Either telephone calls or we've spoken on WhatsApp quite a lot, haven't we?
Anne Snelson [00:00:19]:
That's right. Yeah. No. It's lovely to be here. Thanks very much for inviting me.
Liz Allan [00:00:23]:
No. It's it's brilliant. And, actually, I saw you so you were you made a comment on the pod sorry. On the EV Cafe Faye webinar, didn't you, that my husband was on a few months ago. And something that you said just really rang A bell to me, you know, it really rang true because she was saying we would talk they would talk about the pushback of, You know, kind of the manufacturer of of the CC manufacturing of petrol and diesel cars. And you were saying about public perception, and I was just like, This woman knows exact I'm I'm totally on the same wavelength as this woman. I've got to talk to her. And then I think you straight away, didn't I?
Anne Snelson [00:01:04]:
Yeah. That's right. And I think Nick had, suggested that I get in contact with with you. So it just it was really for juices. And Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, I don't know if you've seen the last few months, but electric vehicle sales have dropped since that pushback. Kinda go, it's all very well for the manufacturers to Still have the targets, but if consumers don't think there's the urgency anymore, it's not good news. Anyway, we'll see.
Liz Allan [00:01:30]:
Yeah. Well, think fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. By the way, your, at your end, it's slightly lagging for some reason. I'm not Quite sure we'll just have to see how it goes. But it's it's just let's just yeah. Because your voice and your for me, I can hear you, but you're slightly behind. But so I'll I'll listen to you.
Liz Allan [00:01:50]:
So just to let Tom Tom just to let you know that that might be what's happening during this. So we'll see how it goes.
Anne Snelson [00:01:56]:
Okay. Sorry.
Liz Allan [00:01:58]:
No. Oh god. Don't apologize. Don't apologize. No. That's fine. Don't be silly. No.
Liz Allan [00:02:03]:
It's fine. I just thought I'd let you know now. So tell me a little bit about your your background, because I know what you're doing now, but let's let's talk about what happened in the run up to into kind of Starting Lead With Sustainability.
Anne Snelson [00:02:18]:
Sure. I mean, I have been in the transport industry for most of my life. I was Actually, a policy researcher in the 19 nineties for the AA doing car sharing and trying to get motorists on bicycles, believe it or not. So as long ago as 1991, 92, I was doing that. And I then had a bit of time out, moved Vodafone, and and did some stuff there before having children. And when I came back from having children, I I went to work for Ringo, phone parking. So I got Quite into that. I was, yeah, I was employee number 15 there, so built it up from nothing, which was great fun.
Anne Snelson [00:02:56]:
But I was sort all the way through, I was very much into, climate change, climate awareness. At Ringo, we introduced a fabulous service called Mission base parking, which is actually the biggest thing I could ever do, which really just, people pay according to the emissions of their vehicle. And I mean, to be honest, in Westminster, they said that when they expanded from the trial that we originally did there to the full city, it was going to reduce journeys by 250 1000 journeys each year. So, I mean, you kind of imagine anything that I can do now would would compare with that. So, yes, so that was great. But, I kept telling my daughter and my son that they would have to deal with climate change. My daughter, who was 16 at the time, just said, well, what are you doing about it, mom? You're not exactly past And I thought, good point, really. Good point.
Anne Snelson [00:03:46]:
So, so at that point, I decided to jump ship. I've still really liked Bringover, it it wasn't doing what it needed it to really. And I went to work for Cocharger and start up neighborhood charging. So, that was good. I did that for about a year, and, unfortunately, it didn't expand it quite the rate we were hoping it would. It was early days Still in the electric vehicle industry then. So, I think that will become more important as as the industry moves on. And really about a year, year and a half ago, I decided that I would be better to set up on my own, do consulting, see if I could Help move things up along a little bit quicker.
Anne Snelson [00:04:28]:
And my background is sort of marketing communications, business product, you name it. So, I've been doing that Sort of. Yes. Just over a year now, and loving it. I have become a carbon efficiency project trainer, which I totally love. That seems to Be my thing. It it changes how people feel about climate change. It gets them acting.
Anne Snelson [00:04:49]:
Some of the pledges that people come up with there are just amazing. So I really love doing that and helping companies really just look at how they can be more sustainable, the sorts of things that they can do, and why it's important too.
Liz Allan [00:05:02]:
Fantastic. And I'm I'm gonna actually join you on in a few weeks' time, aren't I? So so I'm I'm looking I'm looking forward I'm looking forward to doing that. So so what was it about the carbon literacy course that that may that made you want to Try you know, kind of get it out there and and and talk to people about it. What what was it that kind of floated your boat as it were Or you can't?
Anne Snelson [00:05:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. It's funny. It was the only course that multiple people came and told me that I should do when I said I want to do more in sustainability. And they said she'd go and do a cover literacy. And different people, really different people from different walks of life say, but all said go and do it. And I did the online course, first of all, and just thought, wow.
Anne Snelson [00:05:48]:
Okay. They have a they have one that you do on your own, but you have to go and get Certification with a group of people is very practical course. And I joined auto trader for that course to get that certification. And by that time, it was a few months after I'd done the online course and really that whole time, it came muddling in the background. And I just I just find it amazing. I mean, Even people I mean, I I hope you really, really enjoy it, but even people that know a fair bit about climate change, come on the course and just It's the immediacy of it. It is those graphs that, you look at, you just kinda go, oh my goodness, we have to act now. And it really is that sort of wake up call.
Anne Snelson [00:06:31]:
No matter how much you may think that you know, when you see what we have to do, and we have to do it now. That to me was the real thing. And it did change my life. I put that in a blog on on my website. By the time I did the auto trader course, I was ready to give up my car. I'd been basically reducing my my, travel as much as possible. And, I thought, oh my goodness. Okay.
Anne Snelson [00:06:55]:
I'll bite the bullet. And I did that as part of my pledge then, for how I would reduce my emissions. And that's what I love about doing it for other people. Just seeing some of the amazing things that people say. They inspire me as well. I can go, oh my goodness, what I'm gonna do next? So it's fabulous from that Thank you. Really, really, really
Liz Allan [00:07:13]:
So go on because I'd I'd really like to understand a little bit about some of the pledges, You know? And and so so can you can you explain? So so we there's a bit of homework that we've got to do beforehand, isn't there? And then and then kind of as you go through the day, your your talk is it kind of open com open Conversations if we can't receive an open conversations about about kind of the the topics that you're talking about. How does it work?
Anne Snelson [00:07:44]:
Yeah. I mean, it's a really packed day. I do it online. So at the sort of towards the end of the day, maybe you get bit of Zoom fatigue, but it's a lovely mix of things where some of it's me talking, some of it's interacting with other people. So each each day is rent that I do because it really depends on who's there. On the last one, I had 3 people from stage coach, for instance, so it had quite a bus angle to it. I've had people from electric bicycles and the bicycle association. I obviously have people from parking, so everyone comes in with a slightly different angle.
Anne Snelson [00:08:19]:
So there's a mixture of the videos, which are quite hard hitting. Yes, interactions, case studies to look at, A fair bit about policy. So my carbon literacy project, of course, is about transport and automotive, but Mhmm. CLP, you can do it in in various different subjects. So not just about transport. There's other ones that are about, winter sports, for instance, which I always find is a quite curious one. So there's local authority ones, counsellor ones, government ones, education ones. So they all try and do it specific to the sector and have something about that.
Anne Snelson [00:08:56]:
But, of course, most people understand about transport. You know, if you go off the jump in a car, go on a train or whatever, then, you know about that. So I do find that It it's it's a a wide interest and a wide audience that I get coming along, so it's great from that point of view.
Liz Allan [00:09:11]:
So what what was your what was your pledge then originally?
Anne Snelson [00:09:15]:
Well, I mean so I didn't actually have to do the pledge until I did the auto trader one. And as I say, my personal one was, giving up the car. So that was practical. And really my business one was what I'm doing now to sorta I give up my full time job, which was a bit scary too, and to set up my own business, and Really help businesses to to do what they could for to reduce emissions. And I guess I found yes. It's inspiring what people do on an individual basis. I've had people say, I've got a holiday booked, for Croatia, Slovenia, next year, I'm going to go by train. We kinda go Yeah.
Anne Snelson [00:09:57]:
Okay. That's a that's a fair thing to do. I had, a CEO of company who she is basically not taking her 2 daughters and husband, on holiday for the next 2 years. She's saving the money to completely decarbonize, so she's going to swap her gas boiler for probably Either, solar and, electric or heat pumps. She hasn't quite decided yet. And you kinda go, Yay. Alright. That's just 1 individual, but that 1 individual would tell people as well.
Anne Snelson [00:10:30]:
So it has that sort of knock on effect. So that's what I love about it. It is just very, very practical and impactful as well.
Liz Allan [00:10:37]:
Oh, that sounds that sounds amazing. I mean, it It is something that, you know, you've like you say, as a as a small business, it's about the things that you can do to to move move us towards, you know, net zero and and and actually reducing reducing those emissions. And and I'm not I know I'm not perfect. My husband, kind of, you know, he thinks I should use Amazon less, which I know is I know it's true. I know it is. But I think we've done, overall, we've done fairly well. I mean, we were talking before we started recording about, you know, this podcast is now 12 months old. So, You know, I I think we've done quite I I personally feel I've done quite a lot to move things forward for for me, you know, and and the way that I think.
Liz Allan [00:11:23]:
And and, actually, I think that's why me and you got on because we were talking we we were on the phone that time. So we've talked on the phone, everybody, just to say. We were on the phone for the 1st time for, like, absolutely ages, weren't we? It was like we've known each other for for such a long time, because you thought you thought the same way As me and it's taken me not too long. I mean, obviously, I've been married to my husband for for, like, over 20 years now. But has it 20 years? No. It's not over 20 years. I've known him for over 20 years. He's gonna tell me off now.
Liz Allan [00:11:57]:
Sorry. I've known him for 23 years. I've been married to him for 18 years. Yeah. I've got I I've obviously lost my calculation because it's late today. So so, obvious, you know, climate change has been on our agenda for for a long time. And it's not that I didn't take it seriously. I don't know whether you felt felt like this, but it's all of a sudden, there's something that just kinda clicks.
Liz Allan [00:12:21]:
Mhmm. Isn't that? And I think it is about it's about spreading the word, isn't it?
Anne Snelson [00:12:26]:
I think it I mean, for me, it was certainly about data. I mean, I'm a bit of, My my original degree was in stats. I'm I, you know, I have master in the background, newer numeracy, etcetera. And and I remember Rick Rick Boullemyer saying, basically, we have to peak emissions in 2025. And I went, Oh, okay. You know, in my head, it has been about net zero by 2050. Mhmm. And just someone giving me that information.
Anne Snelson [00:12:55]:
I mean, I still thank him so much for that because it was quite a a click to me. I thought that I knew about climate change or, you know, I I had an interest in it. And it was just that immediately. And he said, of course, we have to, you know, then half emissions by 2030. I'm like, gosh. That you know, that's a lot. And if you don't know that figure, If you haven't seen the graphs of it, it's still going up and up and up and having to go, you know, like this, then people just don't understand it. And I you know, sometimes people kinda go to me, oh, they're, you know, they're just ignoring it.
Anne Snelson [00:13:26]:
I'm not sure that it is that. I think it is just that People don't understand the enormity of what we have to do because No. I agree. Not being clear about it. You know? Okay. No. Yeah. It's all fine.
Anne Snelson [00:13:36]:
It's no problem. We'll get to 2050. We're hitting our targets. You think, yeah, but those targets are getting really, really hard. You know? I'm going to get harder. So, we just need to do more.
Liz Allan [00:13:46]:
And the and the less people that actually understand it at at kind of the The the base level, the ground level, you know, that kind of, the understanding that means that, Actually, somebody's explained it to them in a way that it it it hits home, doesn't it? Because We we've got I was talking to somebody today, and we were talking about, you know, the whole nimby, you know, not in my backyard kind of thing. And and I always I always think that It that people only start looking at things like this when it's affecting their pocket. But, actually, you can't Not think about this now, you know, because there's no never mind all the climate deniers, and, Hopefully, there's less of them now because there's there's too much data and evidence to prove that that it's it's real. It's, it you know, it's it's a there's a massive thing we have to do, isn't there?
Anne Snelson [00:14:42]:
I mean, it is sad. I sometimes I mean, I don't know how your husband copes Truly. And I see sort of the climate scientists, the people that have been doing this for decades. I just think it must be soul destroying. You know? They have people going on that just Spouting rubbish really. And, you know, for what? For personal gain, for profit, for I don't know what. And that you do wonder how they, you know, how they feel living with themselves, you know, with that denial mentality. Then I've met other people that, you know, quite honestly, don't believe it for whatever weird reason that someone somewhere has told them or they're they believe
Liz Allan [00:15:22]:
that they're
Anne Snelson [00:15:22]:
buying something. Kinda go, well, I don't know why carbon dioxide in the atmosphere would do that. And you can go, well, These people are living with it day in, day out, you know, and the measurements and everything else. You know?
Liz Allan [00:15:33]:
I just
Anne Snelson [00:15:33]:
trust them. It's a bit strange because There's very little else in life which seems to have that denial around it. You know? Normally, people go, that's a science and I believe it. You know, if your scientist says something, yeah, they would believe it. Whereas with climate change, it just seems, I guess, because there's been so much, Oh, well, yes. There is a
Liz Allan [00:15:58]:
Like you said, if you've got Yeah. Rubbish. Yeah. But if you've got somebody with an ulterior motive Yeah. You know, I was I was talking to somebody today about, is it the Koch brothers out in the States? And and the heat pump kind of you know, that that we there was there was, information that came through about the, you know, kind of the misinformation About heat pumps was I don't know whether this how true wouldn't surprise me. I I can't imagine that it's not true, But, but the the PR company that was pushing that misinformation was paid ultimately by oil and gas. You know? And, actually, they're the ones that are gonna lose out because they're making 1,000,000,000 at the moment, aren't they? You know? And I'm I'm, You know? And I know people will kind of go, we shouldn't be saying that, but, actually, they are. They're the ones that are gonna be losing 1,000,000,000 when we move from fossil fuels to electrification.
Liz Allan [00:16:58]:
But it's now they need to start feathering the nest somewhere else, don't they? You know? Rather than keeping you know, don't don't keep doing what you're doing. You know that it's gonna it's it's harming the planet and the people on it. You know? So move over to to something that's more sustainable.
Anne Snelson [00:17:16]:
Yeah. I I know. I mean, don't they have children? Don't they think about it? Don't they? You know? I don't know. Or or maybe they are also, you know, in denial and and don't realize that quite, you know, what the situation is. And I think That is, you know, going back to CLP. Even for people who are in this industry who, you know, in the electric vehicle industry, for instance, I've had them come on. You know, people that I think, gosh, I I look at them and I think, you know, are you going to learn anything? And they do. They learn it, and they say, It's such a good reminder of just what's important, what we need to do, why we need to do it, and why we need to do it now.
Anne Snelson [00:17:54]:
So, yeah, I think that education piece is just so important for everyone. And I I haven't found a better way of doing it, if I'm honest. You know, if I just work for 1 company, then you kinda go, that's not having the impact that, you know, telling 10, 12 people, even with the regularity that I do it, it does does mushroom. So it's it's great from that point of view. I mean, I don't know. Maybe there are other things So you've you've spoken to so many people.
Liz Allan [00:18:23]:
No. No. I think what you're doing is is is absolutely it's fabulous. So what so you do some other consultancy as well, don't you?
Anne Snelson [00:18:31]:
Yeah. I mean, I so I do some marketing and communications as well, you know, the general sort of sustainability stuff, Looking at, different industries and and what they can do. Most of what I do has a a a marketing hat on of some sort or another. So, and I'll come up with ideas for things that they could do, you know, both internally and externally, just tweaking their products really to make them, then better. And that's the sort of thing that I really love. You know, Ringo, we were taking parking, and and, yeah, it made it really sustainable by, basically, varying tariffs and and prices so much, isn't it? I mean, as you say, money drives the world, unfortunately. So, make it work for us, really, and and look at ways that you can do that. And I I think, you know, going forward, emissions scope 1, 2, and 3 is going to be Fastly more important, and businesses need to get a handle on it because there are I mean, if not UK regulations, because we seem to be going backwards on that one.
Anne Snelson [00:19:29]:
I mean, there are European regulations of any company dealing with the EU will have to know what their scope 1, 2, and 3 emissions are and what they're doing about it and be able to Demonstrate that, you know, they are reducing. So, yes, it will become more important. Just hope it happens in time, really.
Liz Allan [00:19:48]:
So just in case people don't I mean, there'll be a lot of people that will know about scope 1, 2, and 3 emissions. And I don't think I've gone into this too much previously when when I've talked talked to anybody. Can you remind me what those what they they are?
Anne Snelson [00:20:05]:
Yeah. Well, certainly, scope 1 emissions are the internal emissions to a to a company. I mean, there is some Tricky situations. Electric vehicles are one of the hard ones because it depends on whether they're leased or purchased by the by the company. So scope 2 is generally things like electricity, oil and gas. So, I mean, both of those are just internal to company in scope 3 is absolutely everything else, and they're the difficult ones to measure because it is downstream and upstream emissions. So you have to think both about Supply chain and your customers. And, yeah, how do you measure what your customers' use of your services are? Particularly if you're, you know, if you're, Yeah.
Anne Snelson [00:20:47]:
A car manufacturer of some sort. So you have to think about that and be able to measure that. So and the other thing with scope 3 is that, of course, If you're a car manufacturer, then your scope 3 emissions might be somebody else's, somebody else's scope 3 emissions as well. So it's an interesting situation. And, but the largest companies now, the the FTSE old, 500 We'll have to report on an annual basis, so they had to do that. And as I say, there's, European red legislation coming in Where they're going to expand it out to all sizes of business. And certainly, the expectation was that in the UK, smaller businesses Would have to do it as well but yes this government seems to have rode back a little bit on many of their emissions targets unfortunately.
Liz Allan [00:21:36]:
Can I be a little bit provocative and ask you why you think that is?
Anne Snelson [00:21:40]:
Gosh. Can't think that there's something called the general election coming up. But anyway, Mhmm. I can't wait for this to happen, really. And I just hope that some of the other parties realise that, you know, vote buying with things like plans for motorists the best thing to do. And I don't know that it's actually paid played in their favour either because I think people see through it. But, yeah. But it might
Liz Allan [00:22:05]:
have done it might have done to people who, for example, read certain broadsheets. What used you know? Do you know what to mean? Because, I was talking to somebody earlier, about about the fact that a very A very intelligent friend of mine who is a barrister. She basically said to me, we we had lunch together yesterday, and And she we've known each other. We've we used to go to school together when we were at primary school school, and then we went to secondary school, and then she moved. And then, Bizarrely enough, she now lives in Dunstable, and I live in Redding. So we we meet up, and it's brilliant, and she's such an intelligent woman. But, actually, she kinda said to me, so so I you know, I don't what is this about? You know, the government had been saying that, about the affordability of electric vehicles and their, you know, and, the ban on you know, the move move it the reason behind the ban, Because they're saying that people couldn't afford it. And I went, you know that it's not banning all petrol and diesel cars, don't you? She went, no.
Liz Allan [00:23:10]:
Right. It's not that, is it? It's, you know, it's the fact that we can't, drive. I went, no. It's just the it's just the manufacture of of Petrol and diesel that's gonna be banned. You know, they're gonna stop the manufacture. Oh, you know? So so what I'm saying is if if A very intelligent woman like that, who's a barrister, actually thinks that. Then I hate you know, That is just 1 person out of what what we got in this country? Is it 60,000,000?
Anne Snelson [00:23:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean
Liz Allan [00:23:44]:
You know?
Anne Snelson [00:23:45]:
So I
Liz Allan [00:23:45]:
hate I hate to think so everybody must well, not everybody. Lots of people Must think that. You know? And and that's such I think, Gary Comerford would call it poltering. You know? Because it is really, isn't it? It's manipulating the truth.
Anne Snelson [00:24:06]:
Yeah. I mean, it's it's a tricky one because I think It's such a complex thing to explain, and I think people in the industry maybe haven't helped. I mean, I said on that on that that post, we call it the ice ban. You know? The sales ban on on on ice vehicle. And we talk about it, and everyone tends to shorten it, don't they? So maybe people see that as, you know, all sales Rather than just new sales. But I mean, either way, it has meant that putting that back, you know, consumers have thought, okay, it's not so important. And I actually quite I feel quite sorry for the manufacturers because they have stinking rotten targets to reach. You know? Yeah.
Anne Snelson [00:24:49]:
It's like 22% Of all new sales next year have to be electric vehicles. Otherwise, they have to pay £15,000 per vehicle. I mean, right, there's There's sort of things that they can do with their credits instead, but that's a significant amount of money. I and I've been doing I've been studying Nissan for I'm doing the, you know, Sustainability leadership course at the moment. And they would, you know, on a pure basis of Taking what they're at now and where they need to be next year, if they don't increase their electric vehicle sales, they were looking at a a fine of £300,000,000. You kinda go, That's quite a lot of money. You know? I mean, as I say, they can swap credits and things like that and maybe put that off for a bit, but the targets only get harder and harder. So, I mean, the government on the one hand kept them saying, well, you've got this zero emission mandate still to, to meet.
Anne Snelson [00:25:41]:
But they're on the other hand telling consumers that it's not so important, so I wouldn't be too happy if I was a manufacturer. Anyway.
Liz Allan [00:25:48]:
And and that is and and that is really it's not on, is it, really, just just doing it like that. And and that, you know, telling consumers I mean, that that's sorry. I I still get annoyed by the the speech where he was talking about, we're not gonna tax meat. I don't ever remember there being anything out there to say that we were gonna have meat taxed anyway. You know? And and do you know what? And, actually, I've gotta say to you over the last 12 12 months, probably since I've been doing this and talking to more people, I've become I've never ever thought I was a political person, but for for this stuff, it just drives it just makes my blood boil. It really does. And, you know, like, the the film Wonka, I want to put somebody RPM's face on it and put another word in front of it. But, anyway, there you go.
Anne Snelson [00:26:40]:
I'm the same. I mean, before I started doing this, I had never emailed my MP. Well, my MP happens to be Jeremy Hunt, which is quite useful, really. And, yeah, I mean, I've emailed him. I don't know how many times the last few months, so he must be sick fed up with me. But anyway, I mean,
Liz Allan [00:26:55]:
he's Does he respond?
Anne Snelson [00:26:59]:
Yeah. Eventually. Eventually. Not wonderfully, hopefully, but yeah. I mean, somebody there is doing something. So
Liz Allan [00:27:07]:
God. Yeah. Well, finally. Tell me about this. So you you're doing a Cambridge un it's a Cambridge University. Is it a master's? Or I can't
Anne Snelson [00:27:16]:
It's it fortunately, it's just a short course, and that's bad enough. So it's an 8 week course. And I am just about finished. Tomorrow is my last day to get my assignment in. Thank god.
Liz Allan [00:27:27]:
And what's it and what's it called? What is it a
Anne Snelson [00:27:30]:
so the Cambridge University have set What what is called the institution of sustainability leadership, and they have different courses. And as well as the CLP, carbon literacy project, which everybody told me to do, Some friends said, oh, we need to do if you want to do it properly, you have to do the Cambridge one. And, amusingly, my brother and my father both went to Cambridge, so and I didn't. So this is me sort of not really a chip on my shoulder, but finally catching up with them. But, so it's quite nice from That kind of thing.
Liz Allan [00:27:59]:
You can just get that chip and flick it off now, can't you? Come on. It's gone.
Anne Snelson [00:28:05]:
I have really enjoyed it. I mean, it is. So I did an MBA when I was 30, and it's similar sort of thinking of, you know, how do you put, all your thoughts into a 125 words? And you kinda go, How many works? There's really not very many. So most of the challenge is actually that in terms of how you structure your answers and things, but it has been really interesting. I mean, there's There are some I mean, in in terms of secularity, I always quite like the secularity principle of reducing, reusing, Cycling in that order. And they actually go further and say that we should be looking at completely, cradle to cradle Manufacturing. So you literally say, how can we, say, take a car and produce it completely naturally and recycle the whole thing a 100%. So, it's you know, it would be totally sustainable.
Anne Snelson [00:28:56]:
And how do you work with partners in order to do that? So things like recycling batteries, becomes much more important. What you actually put into the car in the 1st place becomes much more important. The size of the car becomes much more important. So it just it's another way of thinking. And I do I have really enjoyed it, but gosh. I mean, he said, this is probably the hardest 8 weeks of your life. And certainly, I remember at the end of my MBA going, I'm never ever going to do a course again. Now I remember why.
Anne Snelson [00:29:26]:
Anyway, so it's quite nice to be near the end of it. I have to
Liz Allan [00:29:30]:
Oh, wow. But you'll actually have you'll have a certification from Cambridge University at the
Anne Snelson [00:29:36]:
end of it, won't you? I will. Yes.
Liz Allan [00:29:39]:
And the chip's gone. Flect's gone.
Anne Snelson [00:29:42]:
Wow. It's quite nice from that point
Liz Allan [00:29:44]:
of view. Yeah. Absolutely. No. That's amazing. So you were just talking about about battery recycling then as well, weren't you? So was that electric vehicle battery or was that just General was it okay? Okay.
Anne Snelson [00:29:57]:
Yeah. I mean, so I chose to do a a project about transport. So, They they suggested that manufacturing company was a good company to do. So sorry. No. I said yes. So I chose Nissan. I liked Nissan because they did carbon literacy project training.
Anne Snelson [00:30:13]:
They've been quite good advocates of it. So I thought I would look at it that way, and obviously, they had belief. So from my point of view, I thought, oh gosh, they're they're, you know, they're they're leading, and then I saw that, actually, no. They're really not.
Liz Allan [00:30:26]:
Oh, they're not? Okay.
Anne Snelson [00:30:28]:
Yeah. They they've been, and, obviously, they've had the cash, which, they've been promoting A lot in this, you know, the highest the biggest seller of 2022 in terms of cars. So they've been focusing on hybrids rather than electric vehicles. But literally 5 days ago in the middle of my project, they announced that they were going to be doing 3 new electric vehicle models Yes. Inside of the saw that. But again, You know, it is it's SUV style. And, you know, so the whole thing, we should be going for smaller cars. We should be going for, you know, Less materials, buy 2 vehicles.
Anne Snelson [00:31:03]:
And there's all sorts of things here. There's actually one that, I find, which is using hemp. And, of course, when you grow hemp, hemp is one of the most you know, if you want to really improve sustainability, hemp's a great product for doing it because it Takes so much carbon out out of the atmosphere, and you can actually use hemp in vehicles to make them lighter. And it was Henry Ford who actually came up with this in the 19 fifties. So, Yeah. I sort of those are the things that you'd never know about. We're just going to find out about you.
Liz Allan [00:31:37]:
So so I'm really interested now, you said Henry Ford, because because my my background is is is lean Process Improvement. And I'm kind of, the the Toyota production system, the TPS, Is it was was actually derived from Henry Ford in the 1st place. So hen so hen Henry Ford sorry. I sound like I'm going a bit On a tangent, I'm really not. But hen Henry Ford came up with a a a kind of a a single production line. You know? He was the 1st person To go from 1st organization to go to a single production line, then they start to he he kind of then people were taking Henry Ford's kind of the way he was working, and then Toyota came up with a Toyota production system. And it's all about, again, incremental changes and, You know, sustainability and actually making people's jobs easier and just, you know yeah. Kaizen, which is this I always talk about Kaizen, which is the thing that's behind behind me, which is which is small incremental changes.
Liz Allan [00:32:39]:
So So you're another person seeing from my hymn sheet, which is great.
Anne Snelson [00:32:44]:
And let me see what Tesla did. I felt really Sorry for your long mask. You know, you came up with this amazing you know, you had to had to slot cards together a bit like a jigsaw. And the the industry I mean, the financial market's just kinda went, yeah. Don't like that. You can go, really? You know? I mean, you they're just bringing very amazing improvements in how they build, and you kind of and then, you know, financial markets get. And Social market's good. And yeah.
Anne Snelson [00:33:07]:
Yeah. Anyway, I mean, I yes. These because I say it's a English course. It's all for doing this. Yeah. Well, Well,
Liz Allan [00:33:14]:
I was gonna say going back to Musk. I think it's, don't you think it's because it was a tech company making a car rather than a car company making a car with tech. You know, that they may may have kind of gone, Actually, you know, we don't we don't believe you've done this, but everybody that I've spoken to with regards to Tesla have, You know, everybody that I I know owns a Tesla, has driven a Tesla, think that it's fantastic. My son doesn't particularly like the man. We won't even go there. That's for other reasons, probably to do with Twitter.
Anne Snelson [00:33:53]:
Oh, I think I think that's it. There there are disruptors in the market, and, you know, BYD, the same. They come in and, you know, they're they're bringing in the really cheap vehicle, Cheap electric vehicles. And you kinda go, I'm sorry, OEMs. You know, original manufacturers. Get your act together. You know? Otherwise, you are not going to have a market here. Here.
Anne Snelson [00:34:14]:
50% of worldwide electric vehicles are sold in China. So where do you think the threat's going to come from? And they're all smaller cars. So, I mean, Nissan has a really cool car called the Sakura, which is a kei car, which is one of these tiny little ones. Mhmm. And They're incredibly popular, yes, in Japan, but why not try that over here? You know, that might be more successful, especially when people are going, I'd like to have an electric vehicle, but I can't afford one. In Italy, they are £8,000, even if that's just part of your your purchase. You know, more people would do it. So
Liz Allan [00:34:48]:
Yeah. Exactly. And actually going back to what you said about SUVs, I get why I get why we've in some ways, people have wanted a bigger because they've had families that put you know, you've got a dog in the back. You've got bookies and all this kind of stuff. If you got big families and you got your shop Been in there and all that kind of stuff. But, actually, not everybody does have that. They don't you know? When we had a petrol car, we had a Golf. It was a nice size for us.
Liz Allan [00:35:18]:
It's just a, you know, reasonably small small car, But I didn't see anything that was within our price range that was that that sized, you know, to mean, at the price that we could we could afford it. And I need my husband doesn't need to drive. I'm the one who needs to drive because of the travel that I'm doing, and it's not it's a complicated journeys and stuff like that. So I can't just Train it there and bus it. It's you know, that would be just far too far too complex. But but, yeah, why why do you think we've actually been Other than the fact what I've just said about families, why are we producing so many SUV sizes when actually not everybody needs to have a have an SUV?
Anne Snelson [00:35:59]:
Yeah. I mean, again, it's manufacturers and profit motive, I'm afraid. And I mean, there were I've seen articles which are just, you know, we're following America. America got into the sort of trucks and SUVs because they could ban the legislation so they weren't counted as vehicles So they didn't have to meet the same emissions targets
Liz Allan [00:36:18]:
and
Anne Snelson [00:36:18]:
things like that. So, appallingly, what we've done is build Bigger and bigger cars and, actually make road safety and emissions worse, which is not the best thing to do. And, yes, and, you know, they're not going effect for How wide is the road? How wide are car parking spaces? How wide are garages in a, it's just ridiculous. All for what? Because, You know, car manufacturers basically want to make a bit more profit and want to hide it in the cheaper things, which is make a bigger car, then you can charge more. And obviously, you know, the The fiberglass or whatever is is is less expensive than, you know, the the batteries and the engine parts and everything else. So, unfortunately, that's what we're stuck And, yes, you know, good marketing, dare I say. Says me, who's a marketeer. I know who's saying, oh, I feel safer in it, and you kinda go, yeah, you might feel safer, but it's not safer for the the people that you hit on a bike or, you know, as a pedestrian sadly.
Anne Snelson [00:37:18]:
And if you do hit them, then, you know, it's far less safe for them. Are you sure that that's what you want to consider when you're you're cusseting your children? In the back of it. It's difficult. I mean, I don't think there's an easy answer. And some of the models that are being, you know, have been proposed for, you know, last 5, 10 years about, Now can we get to a situation where, you know, the vast majority of vehicles have 1 single driver the vast majority of the time? You know, is it possible to have, say, a safe car for those sorts of journeys? And then when you need the car to Get the dog or, you know, whatever on holiday. They rent it or or whatever. And I think there needs to be much more thought around that if we are going to tackle Because, yeah, you don't need big cars for the vast majority of the time.
Liz Allan [00:38:05]:
No. And you can use companies like Co Wheels for things as well, can't you? You know? So I know that that's the kind of the popularity of CoWheels has has increased quite a lot. And I suppose if you think about it, if you just you So I think that's that's the idea of future cities, isn't it? To actually, you know, have cars that you don't have a car all the time. You you actually, you know, kinda have a car when you as and when you need it. I mean, our car has been sat on well, I mean, I took my son to school today, But other than that, it was sat on the drive from Friday to today. You know? So it Could've been somebody else could've been using it, couldn't they, really, or or whatever. So so yeah. But we'll we shall see.
Liz Allan [00:38:49]:
And it and it did when you were saying about about kind of the size of American cars. It did remind me years years ago so when my son was little, we went to Florida, And we were we've got, a higher car. So this is probably I mean, yeah, it's he was probably about 4, so he's now 18 to 14 years ago. And and they gave us, inverted commas, a small car, a small family car. And I was like, you are? This is huge. How's this small? What what is a large car then? Is that like a bus? You know?
Anne Snelson [00:39:23]:
I know. I mean, you do, when we're when we're talking about UK government and everything else, you do sometimes look across the water and go, well, it could be worse, couldn't it? You can actually live over there without a car. It just doesn't seem to be feasible at all, to the.
Liz Allan [00:39:39]:
I know. I know. I do I do remember that so, yeah, we we went kind of, to the States for for a little while, and, and actually She have yeah. You you couldn't go anywhere without driving. You know? It was so it was so difficult to kinda get to anywhere because of the freeways.
Anne Snelson [00:39:57]:
Do nothing. You know? You can go, okay. I can't actually walk here because I'm on the road the minute I get out.
Liz Allan [00:40:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. You take your life in your own hands if you're doing anything like that. I go, oh my god. I better go back and get my car.
Anne Snelson [00:40:10]:
I know. So, It will be interesting to see whether or not they they do tackle anything that they need to over there. We'll see.
Liz Allan [00:40:18]:
Well, that actually that actually brings me to my fine final question, actually. So so what would you like to see happen? If if we if you if if you had your wish, you if I was your fairy godmother, What would your wish be for the next 5 to 10 years? What would you like to see happen over the next 5 to 10 years?
Anne Snelson [00:40:41]:
Oh, gosh. Where do I start? I mean, I would like all adults really to get some basic training in where we are. I would like governments to be honest, about where we are. I think I mean, the interesting thing that I've found from the Cambridge course is that they are trying to connect individuals, businesses, and government. And that does seem to be the best way of doing it because government says, well, businesses don't like it if we bring in stuff, you know, that that's, that they feel is anti competitive. We're going to cost them more. Businesses equally go, well, we need the incentive of governments actually doing something To make us change the way that we operate. Mhmm.
Anne Snelson [00:41:19]:
It is it's difficult. It is difficult because the world is based around profit. Yeah. We talk about GDP. We talk about profit. Everybody wants more. But we're we're wasting, wasting, Spending their resources at 1.7 times what the world can actually stand. So we need to make cuts.
Anne Snelson [00:41:39]:
I would love yes. I would love renewable energy to, actually be decoupled from gas. That would be my number one thing that was supposed to be, beginning of January this year, things like that. Just, you know, not necessarily saying you have to give up your car. Okay. I've done that. I mean, voluntarily, I'm in this lovely situation where I can do that. Mhmm.
Anne Snelson [00:42:03]:
And actually, you know, I've just come back from Scotland by train with my dog, And it was so much nicer than driving, so much nicer than driving. Because you could sit there and do other things, and I could talk, and it was so short and, you know, just The expectation I think always that when you've got 4 wheels outside your door, that you jump in it for whatever. So I would like those models of Car sharing or, you know, insurance companies supporting people who want to share their car. Yeah. Yeah, I would love I would far prefer to be borrowing a friend's To go and take my daughter to university than renting 1. You know? That just seems stupid. Mhmm. And it would make more use, yes, of the vehicles that are sitting 90% of the time plus not being used and and just sitting on the roadside.
Anne Snelson [00:42:50]:
So, yeah, from the point of view of transport, it is The sector that's going in the wrong direction, it is the largest emission sector in the UK. Energy's going down. Yeah. Well done them. A lot of the other yeah. Exactly. A lot of the
Liz Allan [00:43:04]:
other Slow clock time, isn't it?
Anne Snelson [00:43:06]:
With transport, it's heading upwards, and we need to do something. So as industry, I think, Clearly. That's where I think we should be focused. Yeah. Think that we can do that.
Liz Allan [00:43:17]:
I mean, there's there are lots of people like yourself, you know, that are really, really, really trying to get that mesh message out there, aren't they? You know? So So we can't kinda say that there aren't, but it's just like you say, if you've got government that won't, support What should really be happening, you know, won't go along with it and won't kinda promote it, then you're on to a bit of a you're on to a bit of a loss, aren't you, really?
Anne Snelson [00:43:46]:
Yeah. Yeah. I've never I gather where she spent longer in his jet getting to Dubai than he actually spent at the conference.
Liz Allan [00:43:54]:
Funny that.
Anne Snelson [00:43:54]:
It's more dating dating this vibe by the fact that we're in COP 28 at the moment, but you can go, you know, really? Really? Anyway. Yeah. I hope
Liz Allan [00:44:04]:
you're saying
Anne Snelson [00:44:05]:
your daughters have something to say to.
Liz Allan [00:44:07]:
I'm saying nothing. Oh my god. Oh, and, you know, I could I could talk to you for for ages. I really could. I'm gonna tell everybody your web address now. So it is lead with sustainability.co
Anne Snelson [00:44:21]:
UK. That's
Liz Allan [00:44:21]:
right. And you're on LinkedIn. That's where we kind of started chatting, wasn't it?
Anne Snelson [00:44:26]:
Yeah. Where
Liz Allan [00:44:26]:
is there anywhere else you'd like people to contact you if they're interested?
Anne Snelson [00:44:30]:
No. I mean, either of those website's fine. And, yeah, you know, on LinkedIn, direct message me or whatever. So if I can help, you know, people that do know stuff about climate change, feel free to still come on the carbon literacy project course because as I say, it's a bit more impetus again And a number of people I've had on there that just goes, thanks for reminding me, you know, and and just doing some more. So, it inspired me. Hopefully, It might just fire at this as well.
Liz Allan [00:44:58]:
It will. And I'm looking forward to it myself. I really, really am. And Michelle, who works with me, is coming on it as well, and we're both we're both really, really excited about coming on. So so, yeah, I'm making our pledges. So absolutely looking forward to it, And it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. I really, really appreciate your time.
Anne Snelson [00:45:17]:
It's been super. It's been really fun, and, thank you very much Indeed.
Liz Allan [00:45:21]:
Hey. No worries. No worries. And to everybody else, I'm gonna say thank you for listening and watching, and keep on doing it. Keep Getting the word out if you can. Let people know that this podcast exists. And, yeah, I I look forward to seeing you all next time. Bye bye.