Episode 6: Liz Allan and Ben Traviss - Myth busting Electric Vehicle range anxiety and battery size.

Liz Allan 0:12
Welcome to electric evolution. This podcast is about the journey to a more sustainable future, in order for us to be able to do our best to achieve Net Zero, I'll be discussing a variety of topics with experts in their field in order to educate and increase our knowledge of green energy, electric vehicles and the electric vehicle infrastructure. So whether you're an individual one's going to own a small business, or corporate, this podcast is just for you. Today I have with me, Ben Traviss, who's joining me on electric evolution. Now, Ben, nice to meet you. We've spoken a couple of times on LinkedIn. We had a chat on the phone the other week and and I just want you to kind of give a little background to who you are because in your LinkedIn, it says you're well so I know you're a customer loyalty specialist at Mercedes, aren't you? It also says you're you're an EV enthusiasts you're passionate about electric vehicles. So just give me a little bit of your background and how you became passionate. What do you actually do for a job and what is your passion? How did you get here?

Ben Traviss 1:20
So the moment I'm a customer loyalty specialist at Sydney Mercedes Benz, my role essentially is to speak to service customers who are coming into the retailer and first of all, just to kind of pre call them but I think also the main kind of communication I have with customers just to let them know that they could be in a great position to change. And aside from that, how I got to where I am right now is quite, it was, I think, my journey to where I am at the moment is something that I feel like a lot of people within the automotive industry, I've gotten to have like this big realisation moment and I had that when I first started working for what was Cooper BMW and Cooper Mini that were then under the Educate by that they've now been kind of moved across and bought out by virtue that the northern sights were and what happened was when I was working for Stratstone, Jaguar Land Rover, I used to have loads of questions about electric cars. This was back in 20. Let's say it was sort of like 2019/2020 there they're about

Liz Allan 2:31
before the whole lockdown kicking in. Yeah.

Ben Traviss 2:33
So sort of 2019/2020 I was working for Jaguar Land Rover, and I didn't find that there was a lot of information forthcoming about electric vehicles where I was and I remember asking lots of questions and really didn't understand a lot of the terminology I didn't understand charging times didn't understand battery sizes like everything. I just hadn't got a clue I didn't know where to start. So I am now well enacted what I was quite fortuitous. In this kind of position because I decided that I wanted a new challenge. So I moved to Cooper BMW at the time. And my I basically accepted a role within a week of accepting, we went into the first lockdown there was a lot of uncertainty surrounding my position. I've just signed some contracts and they're going to honour me wanting to start because, you know, no one knew at the time what was going on. So I decided in that lockdown, when I was just at home waiting to start I mean, I spent the best part of two and a half three months being on furlough, which I was absolutely bowled. Over by the fact that they would, you know, pay me and they didn't really know who I was, then, you know, I've got nothing to nothing to kind of say, you know, I deserve to have fun or anything like that. But they pulled the rug out of the hat I was so pleased. But in that time what I decided to do is to try and in order to kind of repay their faith in me starting with them and then you know, honouring the contract and all that kind of stuff. All right. This is a great opportunity now for me to really get my head into what electric vehicles are all about. I don't want to sit at home watching daytime TV. I don't want to be thinking about all the other you know, things that are going on in the news. The uncertainty that loads of things were going on at the time. Really decided just to delve into the world of electric vehicles and start from the very beginning and start to understand what it was all about charging times battery sizes, different sizes of vehicles and obviously at the time, it was very much focused on the the BMW Group if you like because that was the world that I was about to walk into. So I needed to be fully like up to speed with with their vehicles and what it all meant. So that by the time I did start, I will be fully confident in understanding and being able to hold a conversation about what actually I'm going to be doing these type of journeys, what kind of battery size do I need? Is this vehicle going to be right for me? And before I started working there, I would have had absolutely no clue as to how to answer any of those questions. So I kind of put together this huge like no part of information I watched so many videos online, how to guides, things that would help me understand what customers were going to be coming to me with because if I hadn't have done that research and hadn't have like had that lightbulb moment of actually thinking this is going to be something that people are going to talk to me about and if I'm going to be working there as a as what was a product genius. I can't have a big thing on my back saying product genius and having no clue about what customers are talking about. You're obviously going to start from scratch deliberately, that you're going to be picking up information all the time. So but I just wanted to hit the ground running with EV and I just felt like at that moment in time something big was going to happen some shit was going to happen. And I just wanted to I wanted to get ahead of the curve and I'm so thankful for that downtime because I now feel like I can I can help others make that journey from internal combustion engine to electric vehicle and in actual fact it's it's there's a lot of information out there which is which is sometimes very difficult to to take on board because what do you believe it's a good source is you know, all this kind of stuff, but the journey just needs to be broken down into small chunks. And once you start to understand what it's all about, it's actually pretty easy to live with anything so that's kind of how I always started to become so passionate about it. It just felt like at the time it was a it was something that's I said that was gonna really take off and I wanted to get ahead of the curve but I think that product genius kind of title, there was a lot of pressure on me as well. So I felt like right. I can't just I can't just kind of rest on my laurels. I've got to really get into this and really understand that

Liz Allan 6:38
you can't be a product genius and not be an actual genius. Can you really so for somebody like me so so my just to kind of fill you in on my my kind of need really is that I'm looking to understand about about electric vehicles and what what is I want to go on the journey that you've been on. You've been on it for kind of three two/three years now, haven't you? Yeah. So So for me, I own you know, I own a business. I you know, I'm a mum, I'm a wife. For us as a family. We would like our next car to be an electric vehicle. And I think there's a number of there's a number of areas. I mean, obviously one of them is the fact that the price of electric vehicles is quite high. So you know obviously, when we're talking about the rest of the UK wanting to buy electric cars, it's not always something that everybody can afford. Obviously, that's not something that probably could we could probably talk about, but with regards to what you know the journey that you went on, so what do what what do I need to know so, so tell me about how you got you know how you kind of decided on a mini What about how do I decide on battery size is what what is it? What are the differences in all the batteries? What is it about kind of like you know, the range anxiety that everybody gets scared and I know we spoke about this previously, but if you can kind of fill everybody in about about kind of all of these things that are being I'm sure there are people out there that are in the same situation as me and kind of go well I don't really know where to start.

Ben Traviss 8:22
Yeah. I think when you're looking to buy a new car, whether it's new or new to you, you're always going to do your homework on, on on the things that are really important to you. So if you're a family and if space is likely to be important if you're going to be doing lots of longer journeys, then you know if tech might be important to you so you can you know when you're on those road trips, and you've got access to Apple CarPlay, Android Auto all those kinds of things. When it comes to electric when it comes to electric vehicles. There are things to take into consideration which a lot of people, myself included, won't have necessarily thought about too much. Now, you mentioned the barriers to entry things like price is always at the worst especially at the moment. It's certainly going to be a talking point. But what I found and why I decided to go for the Mini was that when I worked at what then became virtually BMW virtually mini I worked with the mini team. I was kind of I was in and out of mini electrics quite a bit. And I remember I remember very vividly the first time I drove them in electric and it was whilst I was working at BMW and that was completely by accident that taken some vehicles to to an event that was taking place and they were sponsoring the event. They had lots of stickers down on the side of the cars and that type of thing. And I was sent with some sales executives to go pick up some cars. They all opted for the BMW and what they thought was they will give me the short straw and well we'll just keep putting them in you know, we're in the BMWs Of course we are we're sales executive product genius. Give him the keys to the mini and let him go you'll find this mini electric. I couldn't believe it. I was like I've never driven I hadn't driven a couple of electric vehicles before that. I BMW I3s mainly. But this was just completely like, I need to know more about this. I need to know more about this car. And so that was when I was working at BMW and then when I moved across the mini obviously I was kind of in and out of these cars and just kind of fell in love with the with the mini electric now. One thing that's really important is at the time I was driving an Audi A1 at the time. And my kind of thoughts were right. I'm looking like I'm completely sold on a mini experience. But what I had to do is I had to go internal combustion engine mini before Mini electric and that was because of financial restrictions, financial, those type of things. And at the time, I was a bit gutted because I wanted that I wanted that journey to start with a mini electric I was so like headstrong. I love this car. But I needed to I needed to use the internal combustion engine vehicle as a stepping stone and that got me used to you know what living with a mini would be like its quirks it's kind of you know, the size for instance it's it's not the biggest it's so min of course it's not but you get used to the the vehicle and stuff and I fell in love with that car. And then when the time was right, I thought right, I'm gonna opt for an electric car now. So in terms of jumping straight into an electric car, I didn't that wasn't my journey. It wasn't just like, okay, one day I'm woken up and now I'm gonna get an electric car. There has to be things that you will have to take into consideration and it's maybe not something that people can jump into straightaway.

Liz Allan 11:42
Yeah, yeah.

Ben Traviss 11:43
I've got kind of, to kind of be okay with. Actually, that's where I'm going. I'd much rather be speaking to customers and people who are, it might not be for me right now. But I see the benefits and I see the logic and I see why it's great to have an electric car but at the moment it's just not right for me my my my girlfriend's in exactly that position right now. She is all aboard the electric train. She's like, Yeah, let's do it like but at the moment, I can't do it because of the the vehicles that are out there and the cost and that type of thing. So I get it. I understand in terms of things that you know, you mentioned battery sizes and things like that previously, I've had this conversation with with a few people now. And I think that when it comes to range anxiety, what we find is that a lot of customers will first time around and opt for a vehicle with the biggest battery because there's always going to be that initial range anxiety. What I can say with some some conviction now is that the mini electric being one of the smallest electric vehicles out there with one of the smallest rating isn't that's been very well documented. What what we kind of find is that customers will often compare like five experiences with an internal combustion engine vehicle. So for instance, how much how much range your vehicle has because when you feel your car, you know you'll see 300/400 Miles plus maybe depending on what kind of vehicle you have, and and that will always be compared with the process of charging a car, how long it takes, but also what the range is likely to be. The best way really, that I can I can speak to people about owning an electric vehicle is it's not a light for life experience. It's not something that you can just say, well, I get this all the time. So I get a customer that says to me, yeah, but then okay, fine. I hear what you're saying about electric vehicles, but I can go into a fuel station and it takes me four or five minutes to fuel my car and go in and pay and away I go. I'm away. Whereas you're telling what I've heard. That's a great word. What I've heard is that there aren't any places to charge your vehicle. It's going to take me the best part of a day. To my car. Honestly, it doesn't matter things. It's unbelievable. But I think what the best thing from and the best advice that I can give is it's about breaking it down to a daily or a weekly requirement. Rather than thinking right I've got 400/500 miles to play with now I don't have to fuel for another two weeks, three weeks. Great, fantastic. Well, in actual fact, when you go and do that, you're going to be paying a lot of money at the fuel pumps to be able to have that luxury. But also, you know, oh no and an electric vehicle. If you can, if you can charge at home, then you're going to be making some massive savings and at the moment I'm reaping the rewards of that. I think that from a weekly and daily requirement rather than looking at the how much range do I have in my electric vehicle? It's how much range am I going to need today? If I can charge at home I'll charge later on. How much range do I need? So my vehicle at the moment the electric mini state the revised figures are between I think it's I think it's up to 143 miles on a on a full charge in the winter. But the thing is for me, I think that I'm getting 143 miles I feel like I can get to Cornwall and back on 143 Miles my whole kind of I've just completely changed the way that I look at this now so I can charge at home. I'm lucky it's a complete luxury and I get it and not everyone's going to be able to do this. But my commute to work is 11 miles to work and it's about 11 miles back depending on which which way I get home. If I need to charge every day at home I could what I don't need four or 500 miles of range because my daily requirements like you know, 20 something miles a day. And if I've got that, knowing that if I need to charge it maybe once or twice a week then great if it's going to cost me five, six pounds a week to be able to charge I much rather do that. Than you know paying 50/60/70 pounds when I was fueling my mini internal combustion engine vehicle. So yeah, I think it's all about it's all about you breaking things down into very small chunks and if you're if you're worried about range, I've done a couple of road trips and my mini electric now and it's surprisingly easy. People talk to me about what their public infrastructure is like if you know how to charge you know, the reliable kind of charging networks I guess then you're laughing honestly, it's absolutely fine. And the thing is when when you get to when you get to sort of moving into thinking about an electric vehicle I said earlier, you are going to sort of be tempted to opt for the bigger battery version because you aren't going to have that range anxiety but you know, bigger batteries. If you're not doing long distances regularly. It's a heavier car. It's not as efficient. You aren't necessarily going to get the rewards. And I think it's all about qualification at the sales stage. If someone that you're talking to knows about electric cars and knows that they're there, what they can offer with their brand. They should be telling you Look, let's break it down. What's going on. What do you what what's most important to you let me know what it is you're doing longer journeys every now and again. For smaller battery, battery electric vehicle is going to be absolutely fine for you. You just need to plan a little bit for the longer journeys. Just just embrace it.

Liz Allan 16:58
I was gonna say and I suppose over time, it's a bit like the mobile phone I remember. Back in the 1990s My boss I'm originally from up North from Halifax and my boss at the time, he had this massive big mobile phone that was like yay big, you know, it was just huge. And I suppose over time the technology is going to improve. I mean look at look at mobile phones now. You know the size the size of them have decreased so much. I mean, some of them are got bigger and now my eyesight is not as good as it used to be. I've got a bit of a bigger phone anyway, but But you know, I'm assuming in the next kind of 5/10/20 years, the battery you know, kind of technology is going to change so much more so that batteries are going to be smaller and therefore, theoretically, it's a bit like you know, I've got an iPhone, we can have different variants of iPhone, you know, so I know you can get different variants of, you know, battery electric vehicles, and get better range with those, you know, but again, like with the iPhone, you pay more for those higher specifications, don't you?

Ben Traviss 18:10
Yeah. And I think that you know, it's interesting that you mentioned the phone kind of analogy because I think a lot of customers that I speak to are very, very kind of headstrong and that they have to buy a car outright and they see no benefit of buying an electric car right now outright. And to be honest, I'm probably I'm I wouldn't try an electric car outright. Right now. I think because of the help fast analogies kind of moving forward. You mentioned that, you know, smaller batteries and as time goes on, they're going to be able to give us you know, hundreds of miles of range which is great, but how to most people out of most people kind of live with a mobile phone. They kind of it's on a contract you kind of rent a phone, and with an electric car because things are progressing so quickly. It makes no sense to buy that outright because in six months time in 12 months time, you know, the title of the technology would have moved on further again. So sort of leasing a vehicle makes a lot of sense, especially at the moment when things are progressing. So much. And as I said, when people talk to me about well, you know, in two or three years time, you know, electric vehicles are going to be able to do 300/400/500 Miles easy. Well, yeah, they are but you're in a position whereby you can park change your vehicle and get on board with the latest technology. It's just it's how people live their lives. Now. You know, there's a lot of things that people have on financing. A lot of people will have insurance and stuff like that, that will pay monthly service and that they'll pay on a monthly basis service and stuff. So it's just another one of those things, but I have to be conscious that it doesn't work for everybody. You know that the leasing side of things and a monthly payment doesn't work for everyone and I totally get that. But in order to kind of safeguard yourself and for the you know, for the finance companies to be taking all the risk when it comes to electric vehicles is I would definitely recommend that to be a consideration. But you know, for me, I think that you when when we're looking at electric vehicles and what it's all about, we talked about how important it is to look at it in smaller chunks. And as I said, I think right at the beginning of our conversation, or it's about having that kind of top 5/top 10 things that are really important to me. And if range is one of those things, then let it be part of your mind process and that it'd be part of the way that you're going to purchase a vehicle and if that's really important to you bigger batteries might be the option for your first time around I've kind of taken the difficult route and not opt in for a bigger battery version one because the mini don't offer that right now I know that the next generation has been electrics will offer a smaller battery and a bigger battery which is certainly going to open up their customer base. But if you feel like you need to do that then then great but me I think that there's a there's a really exciting app that's emerging at the moment called EV curious and EV curious are a platform where they have an a free app that you put in you're obviously just going to sign up and things like that. What it will do is it will actually track your journeys every single day if you leave it running in the background. What it will then do is it will then show you how much distance you're covering on a daily or weekly basis. And that's fine too. I'm starting to really get on board with that because for me that's such an exciting leap forward. And will help a lot of people who are thinking about owning an electric vehicle. What what is it that I actually fundamentally need? Do I really need 400 miles do I really do I really need a bigger batteries and are really going to want to pay a lot more money for a bigger battery version. What's natural fact this app, it says might only be doing maybe 100 to 150 miles a week and yes I can charge at home so why would I offer the bigger battery? It's just about it's just that these kinds of things are out there to reassure us that actually we don't need to spend more money than we need to. Yes, there's a vehicles are much more in terms of the equivalent of internal combustion engine vehicles right now for the EV like Absolutely. The periods are just something I think is a phenomenal leap forward in the future to actually be able to go well, I might be able to save myself a lot of money here that those type of things that I think more and more people need to know about.

Liz Allan 22:13
That's a That's a brilliant idea. I think that's that's a fantastic idea. I will share that in the in both on the platforms that we're actually be broadcasting this on. What I wanted to ask you was you know you've been talking about charging at home so how are you charging at home it's, I mean, I know that you can't just plug in an electric car like you would a toaster you know to mean or you can kind of do that but it probably take like two days to charge that kind of thing. So, so what what are like my electric toothbrush tends to take about a full day to bloomin' in charge. But um, so what did you end up doing with regards to charging at home? How did you What have you installed? And how's it how's it work? How long does it take and what amount of electricity are you actually using kind of thing

Ben Traviss 23:05
so when it comes to when it comes to my home charger, I was lucky enough to be right at the tail end of when the government were offering some grants. So there was a specific route that I had to go down in terms of filling out a specific form. I need to provide information about my usual still need to do this by the way. So you'll need to provide information about your kind of fuse box where you're looking for the you know, for for the home wall box to actually be situated. You know there needs to be considerations for in terms of how far away it is from your Wi Fi etc. So there's a few different things that you're going to need to kind of look at. I decided just like an electric vehicle that there is a world out there of charges if you can't charge at home, the whole conversation about where do you start? I mean, it's a very valid question. there for me, I just think that the research that I did led me to hypervolt which is the wallbox that I went for started I've seen some videos about it online. I did some research into it. I actually they've got an amazing customer service team, who were very reassuring like look you know, we do this is what we do. We don't do this as part of a bigger thing. Like we only make more boxes. They've had some videos where there was a video on fully charged, which I watched and then there was watched I was watched at the time and that's how I found them. And electricians YouTube page that company's called artisan electrics. They're really big on YouTube, and they actually went to they actually went to the hypervolt headquarters and sort of sat down with the team and talked about why you know what, what they're not just wanting, not just what's happening right now. The reason why I love hypervolt Is that the that sports from their research and development is all about the future as well. So there's going to be a lot of vehicle to grid VTG for instance that you can then take energy out of your vehicle and put it back into the grid. And there's like, there's loads of things that are looking at from

Liz Allan 25:19
Yeah amazing stuff going on isn't it.

Ben Traviss 25:20
Yeah, absolutely. And what then what they're looking to do is they're also looking to, for instance, share the load in your street so if another vehicle needs the electric then yours isn't going to get charged until you know theirs is ready. So there's, there's so many things out there. And the great thing about hypervolt for me is that you know, the actual physical box itself, doesn't it shouldn't need to be renewed. It's all software updates over the air. So as soon as things become live, they can send it to your box over the air and you won't have to worry about it. It'll just happen and you know, things like that. I think that they're really looking they're really looking ahead and to me I was completely sold at that point. But as I said, I think that there are lots of Chargers out there and I think that the a lot of manufacturers that provide and make electric vehicles will tend to have a preferred partner. So they might often sort of like edge you a bit more towards kind of well we work with these people. But why we're always say is that you're not obliged to take their recommendations, just like electric vehicles, I would certainly shop around and there's lots of different budgets out there. There's lots of different price points of charges as well. So that's certainly going to come into come into play. But yeah, for me, I just felt very comfortable with hypervolt people that I work with off the back of my recommendations hypervolt chargers, and they've had absolutely no problems with theirs. If there's been any questions or queries or things haven't worked. So for instance, like a few months ago I actually did an overnight charge and it didn't charge. And I was like write up some call back on the phone to them. They sort of did it straightaway, like they're brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. So for me, yeah, it's definitely welded itself with charges. But I think I would just encourage you to do to do research and not just take the first thing that's handed to you and go Well, we work with these people will go actually well, there might be other options out there for you.

Liz Allan 27:04
But that installation then So who in how do you get to install something like this? Have you is there like a network of install like you said, so you say well, we work with these people. Do you tend to get like a kind of, you know, the companies working together with installers or is it's I'm assuming it's not that you can do it yourself visit you've got to actually get somebody to somebody to actually install it to your house.

Ben Traviss 27:30
So, since I got my charger installed, there have been a slight difference in terms of how how this works. So what tends to happen and how what my understanding of it is, is when I contacted hypervolt and said, Look, I'm all in let's do it. What do I need to do? They have a network of approved installers in like in different parts of the country, and they said, Look, we'll now give you the details of someone that like a company that is relatively close to you, and they'll come out and they'll do a survey and they'll have a chat to you and all that kind of stuff and they kind of just went that's the information you contact them. We know that they're great people to the natural stage. So I think as far as I'm aware, if you if you wanted to contact a an automotive sort of electrician, if you like who install these on a regular basis, then there's no reason why you couldn't go to one of those people. But the other thing that if you've got a charger in mind, I would contact the manufacturer and just say look, I want to do this, what would you recommend that I do next and take their advice and go down that route and as I said, the people that installed my, my wall box were absolutely brilliant. They did it within sort of three to four hours. Wasn't very it was a minor inconvenience. And they showed me how it all works and pairs with an app and I can lock my charges. One of the big myths out there is that you know if I leave my house and I go to work and my charges there can someone just drive up into my driveway and plug it in and that is a thing and I heard that when I first started learning about electric vehicles, you can lock the charger from the app and stuff as well. There's loads of things that you can do within the app. So yeah, for me, I just it's just a really easy experience and I think that the the YouTube kind of research that I've done just just put my mind at rest and then obviously a conversation with hypervolt themselves which just made a lot of sense.

Liz Allan 29:24
It sounds it sounds like a good a good way to go. So what you were saying earlier about, so you have to be connected to Wi Fi for any updates and things like that. Is that right?

Ben Traviss 29:34
I think or depending on the charges depending on how it receives updates depending on the setup, I would say that having Wi Fi access is very important. I'm lucky in that where my actual sort of routers within my within my home where my charger is it's very, very close. So it's not an issue but if you for instance if you have questions about you know where to put the wall this is what the this is what the these kinds of electricians are all for they'll be able to recommend that they have. Because when out when I wanted to have my wall box on the side of my home, they actually did some tests just to sort of what's the signal strength like where you want it to do we need to kind of make some adjustments and things like that. So they tend to be really, really helpful anyway, so I would definitely recommend if you are looking to get a home charger installed just to make use of their experience and their expertise and if you are looking to go down that route, they'll be able to kind of come over and give you that kind of site survey just to reassure you or if it's not a plan A then they'll they'll be able to kind of recommend a Plan B and how much that's likely to cost.

Liz Allan 30:38
So Ben, if people want to find out a bit more because obviously, you know, we can draw so much information out of you from this. So if people want to find out a bit more and talk to you, where's the best place to contact you?

Ben Traviss 30:52
I would say if you're on LinkedIn it's probably a really good place to find me. So it's just Ben B and Traviss with two s's. It's a quite a bizarre styling but I am there and if you find my profile, you'll see me talking about my mini electric probably a fair bit so you'll definitely know that it's me. And but if you're on Instagram, if LinkedIn is not where you are and you're on Instagram, it's up to hashtag Mini. That's where you can find me and I respond to all messages through that so just do that as well. So yeah, just come find me. I just have a chat.

Liz Allan 31:18
Fantastic. Thank you, Ben. It's been a joy talking to you. I know I will get you back on here again.

Ben Traviss 31:26
It's been really good.

Liz Allan 31:27
It's been brilliant and I really appreciate it so thank you ever so much, and I shall see you later. Bye, everybody.

Liz Allan Outro
Thanks for listening to electric evolution with Liz Allan. If you want to find out more about full circle continuous improvement, please visit us at www.full.circleci.co.uk Don't forget to keep listening for more episodes really soon.