Liz Allan [00:00:01]:
Right. So on today's podcast, I have, who is the head of green finance That's gonna be really hard for me not to say finance. Green Finance at MacIntyre Hudson. Now thank you ever so much for joining me, Hiten. We've met a few times, haven't we?
Hiten Sonpal [00:00:19]:
Yep. Brilliant to be here as well, and thank you for the invite, Liz.
Liz Allan [00:00:22]:
Hey. No. It's great. And and it's it was so lovely because You hosted the EV Cafes Partner Day, didn't you in London a couple of months ago now? I was amazed at the building. I was just oh my god. Look at this. This is just beautiful, but but it was such a fantastic day, and it was great it was great to meet you there. And we've met a couple of times in some way. Absolutely. I I mean, you're not the only one that mentioned about the building. I mean, I I don't I see it every day, so I don't think it's a big thing. But Everyone's fascinated about the lifts, to be honest with you. Oh, that was it. Yeah. It was the intuitive lifts, and it was kinda like, you know. Right? Okay. You you get a little fob, don't you, and it tells you which floor you need to go to. There's none of this having to go to 1st floor, 2nd floor, 3rd floor lingerie. There was no None of that was that. It was brilliant.
Hiten Sonpal [00:01:11]:
Very, very simple and slick. But no. It was brilliant to see you there. at the sponsor day. And, yeah, it was just great to just have everybody in a room together as opposed to on a team's call or a Zoom call or whatever it is. as we had for a little while, didn't we?
Liz Allan [00:01:28]:
For sure. Sure did. So right. So you're head of Green Finance at MacIntyre Hudson. Previously, you were the director of Future Mobility Group at NatWest. And before that, you were head of specialist sectors at Lombard And that was a long time, wasn't it? That was 21 years. So give me a little bit of your background. So so what were you doing at Lombard? And how did you move what where did how did you move through to get to where you are now, YMHA as well?
Hiten Sonpal [00:01:57]:
Well, man and boy at the bank So Lombard is the asset finance arm for the NatWest Group. Right. Started as a rookie there, moved my way up, the the food chain, working with different types of clients. As you move up, you go to larger clients. Mhmm. I think my career changed back in 2010 when I got the opportunity to go and work in a niche market in sustainability, and it wasn't something that was kind of on my radar. but it sounded very interesting, and we had a brilliant team around us. And we were fortunate to provide funding at the time to one of the first aggregators. It's a business that goes out and puts free solar panels on domestic homes.
Liz Allan [00:02:42]:
Okay.
Hiten Sonpal [00:02:43]:
-- act against the government subsidies, which was called the Feeding tariff back in those days. Yes. Of course. We grew that business, and then we went out and started educating our own customers about renewables and energy efficiency. and it was just unbelievable. You know? Businesses really saw the value in us talking to them because we weren't selling any technologies. It was very much, you know, we're a finance company. We wanna lend you the money, but if we can educate you and give you something to think about, which could add value to your business, and then help you at the end of it with finance, then that's absolutely a win win for us. So continue doing that, and then I was given the opportunity to head of a team, which covered off renewables, aviation, and marine. I think we're just balancing the carbon emissions on that, really, with all the emissions from the aviation and marine sector, which I did that for 4 years with the team across the UK. And then when our new CEO, Alison Rose came into play, She made climate as one of her key pillars of the bank and focuses, which was fantastic because I was barking on about it since 2010. Yeah. Great. And that's when the future mobility group was introduced where the banks saw this as a huge market of growth and for us to really focus on getting ahead of the curve and making sure that we are ready for the market, and we can create opportunities and procedures to support this transition. And that's how I actually met the EUV cafe as well, Liz.
Liz Allan [00:04:28]:
You know? I do I do know there's a story, isn't there? There is there is a story.
Hiten Sonpal [00:04:32]:
It it's it's a very small community. Everybody gets to know everyone and that's kind of how the EV cafe came on the radar. And part of the Future Mobility group, we wanted to try and help that transition and I was the lead on creating the partnership between NatWest and Octopus Energy.
Liz Allan [00:04:51]:
Oh, right.
Hiten Sonpal [00:04:53]:
we provided a partnership where clients could come to the bank and get a charge point, solar panels on their roofs, battery storage and an energy tariff as well, all under one roof. So we created that proposition with Optus, which is the 1st in the market. for a bank and an energy provider to put something like that together.
Liz Allan [00:05:16]:
Fantastic. Oh my goodness. So
Hiten Sonpal [00:05:20]:
good it was it was great fun as well. You know? Octopus are a brilliant business and -- Yes. -- really good to kinda just see there. forward thinking, you know, not just it's if it doesn't fit in this box, we don't wanna do it. They're very relevant to being, you know, thinking outside the box, I would say. You know? Happy to work with us and create something that's gonna be value added for our clients and the market as well, and it was just yeah. It was good fun to create something like that.
Liz Allan [00:05:51]:
Fantastic. So what size what size clients were you kind of dealing with them? Were they were they all entry enterprise on, you know, kind of corporates.
Hiten Sonpal [00:06:00]:
No. No. So it was so we initially started the project to look at SMEs, mid corporates, and large corporates as well. Mhmm. But then we saw an opportunity to work with our consumer market as well, our retail bank. of how we can link up. So if you're a a personal customer of the NatWest Group, you could also get a charge point through this initiative. Okay. And, again, just supporting businesses and individuals to get that transition because like in there, there's so many charges out there. Where do you go? You know, it's very, very confusing. And, I mean, we are living and breathing this market. so we understand it. But coming in new, I mean -- Yeah. -- I would never have thought in my life to have bought an electric car. had I not been part of the future mobility group? I bet. And and this is right now.
Liz Allan [00:06:53]:
No. Exact And and I mean and I always I keep saying this, and probably people are sick of hearing me say this. We are really, really close to getting an EV. I I went on a another another test drive last week with the wonderful grid people from grid serve. And and I've I've totally narrowed it down to one now. So So we are really, really, really close, and and I can't wait, pardon?
Hiten Sonpal [00:07:16]:
I think it's grocery, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Liz Allan [00:07:20]:
So so yeah. So I can totally can totally understand it. And and, also, because of my husband, you know, working as a climate change professor, you know, a climate climate you know, professor of climate science, the environment's always been really high on our agenda as well, so we wanted to make sure that we were
Hiten Sonpal [00:07:39]:
giving giving something back as well and and doing what we said we're doing on the tins. You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah. You've gotta practice what you're preaching. Right? So -- Absolutely. -- we were out there educating clients on the benefits of going electric. And, yes, the range anxiety was there for me as well on the first day. But trust me, after a few days, you just get used to it, you understand the car, car understands how you drive, And then, you know, everything else is just history after that. It's the best thing. Yeah. I've said the fortune not going into petrol stations and buying chocolates and crisps and whatnot. So for me, it's a huge saving on top of the fuel, and even saving on the waistline as well. So Oh, no. I need that.
Liz Allan [00:08:23]:
I need that for sure. Honestly, it's really difficult for me to kinda go pass packet a whisper small -- Yeah. -- with the, you know, and not go, I'm not really I'm really fancy them. Shall I buy them for my son? No. I'll eat them myself. Yeah.
Hiten Sonpal [00:08:36]:
So, yeah, Future Mobility Group was a brilliant stint for 2 years. Learned a lot. Met some brilliant people in the market. And then I had the opportunity to go and work in a new team that was created within the bank focusing on carbon footprints So -- Mhmm. -- the whole ESG process of scope 1, 23. So how many how much emissions does a business actually create? and how do they calculate that, and what do they need need to do to reduce that. And I think that really did help, you know, from the technologies to future mobility, to then carbon footprints, ESG journeys, all of that, has really given me a rounded approach of what I'm doing. I'm working with the bank. I mean, I've you know, I mean, debt to the bank. They've given me a fantastic career some great opportunities and have helped me develop. But I just felt it was the right time to look at something new where the bank have got a certain credit profile. And if it fits in this box, we can help. But because I done a lot in the market and expose myself, should I say, to
Liz Allan [00:09:48]:
In the nice way. The nicest way to the industry.
Hiten Sonpal [00:09:52]:
I get a lot of people coming to me going, hey, look, this is what we're doing. What are your thoughts? Is this something you can help? And it's really painful when you can't help them because you believe in what they're doing. and it's something that I really do see the value of trying to come up with a solution. So that's why MHA came up on the radar as an opportunity because they're a firm of accountants -- Mhmm. -- where they have a variety of areas of expertise and Previously in the bank, I would just look at the actual senior debt funding. So the element that they wanna finance but there is a whole host of other things that businesses need to look at such as putting a business plan together. putting a financial model together. Some of them may need equity, so our corporate advisory team can provide advice on that and help them raise the equity with the, you know, the various institutes that we work with. Also, you've gotta think about the tax structure. So what is the plan? You know, have you got an exit strategy in 5 years? Do you wanna go public on your company, all of these kind of things have to be thought about. And then I think the cherry on the cake is MHA has a a banking and finance team which has access to over 200 lenders. So we have 200 different risk profiles where for which is suitable for all types of businesses. I won't sit here and say we can lend money to anyone and everyone, but there's a higher probability of providing finance in on this side of the fence than there was on the banking side, which is totally understandable, you know, that the bank is has a different risk profile. And there are a number of financial institutions out there who have the same scenario, you know, they will be a lot more risk averse in some cases, but others, they're happy to take more of a risk and it just depends on their own strategy. So that's the journey list of where I started. So, I mean, MHA is my my second job in my whole career.
Liz Allan [00:12:14]:
Oh my gosh. I've only ever worked for the bank. So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course.
Hiten Sonpal [00:12:19]:
wanting when I was asked to put a CV together. I was like, I'll have to dust the one off that I didn't stack in 19 night time.
Liz Allan [00:12:28]:
Oh, goodness me. Wow. So were you you were approached by MHA then?
Hiten Sonpal [00:12:34]:
Yeah. Well, I had a a number of opportunities to go and work, you know, because of my skill set. I mean, there's a lot of people who have done renewables and climate, for 2, maybe 3 years. But there's not many people who have seen the peaks and troughs of the last 12 years, and it's gonna add a lot of value and I mean, you've been on a journey, and you've created a brilliant business. I mean, the bank never did any funding in renewables. pre 20 10. So it's a huge culture shift in us doing what we needed to do to build that confidence and that trust and then going out to all the bank managers and the frontline staff to educate them to then help them raise it with their clients. Mhmm. I mean, it was a snowball effect. Once we got that little speck of snow growing and the ball started growing, it just grew and grew year on year and it was a great journey to be on.
Liz Allan [00:13:36]:
So for for MHA, do you feel feel kind of you're on a similar journey of education? Because Obviously, you've gone from banking to an accountancy firm who are kind of introducing this level of of green finance. do you do you kind of do you feel that you're that's what you're having to do. You're having to make sure that you've educated everybody within within the within the company.
Hiten Sonpal [00:13:59]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you know, an accountancy firm is a different beast to about. Yeah. Absolutely. an accountancy firm is a professionals business. So they're providing professional services of audit, tax, r and d, Yeah. Whatever it is. A bank is primary focus is to lend money. Yes. Of course. Yeah. So I'm going from a service environment to a lending environment. Sorry. I'm going from a lending environment to a service environment. and I'm having to change that culture of we can do service and lending. And my theory has always been if you've got a client that needs 10 services, and we're focusing on 2, the other 8 are going out to somebody else where they're generating a revenue from it when you already have a relationship, with this client, and we could service them and provide them with a brilliant service as and a solution. I call myself as a concierge of Finance. You know? Love it. Well, you don't need to do all the work. You just provide the information once to us, and then we will go out to the market and then present you with the various options for you to then make a decision. It doesn't matter to us who you go with. At the end of the day, what meet your criteria and what's best for you.
Liz Allan [00:15:24]:
So what okay. SKUs skew I mean, I'm sure other people don't understand this in the same way that I it's not right. Can you give me some clarity on the difference between regular finance? and green oh, finance and green finance. So so I from what I what I understand it, so you're you're talking about kind of investment in in renewables, aren't you, and things like that? So so is that is it be you know, Are we looking at the whole green finances is just simply investment in in kind of that on that side rather than anything that's to do with oil and gas or anything
Hiten Sonpal [00:16:02]:
like that. You tell me. Yeah. So there's there's a little bit I'll probably share some context first, and then I'll come back to that question, Liz. So the financial sector is evolving significantly -- Mhmm. -- with the UK government now having a a net 0 target by 2050. Yes. Banks are banks not just banks, but large organizations. I'm talking FTSE 250 Businesses are all getting pressured from the UK government to reduce their emissions and demonstrate, you know, disclosing their climate initiatives and what they're doing at the business. TCFD in effect. Yeah? Mhmm. And for me, that has changed the the mindset especially in the banking world. And I've seen it both from when I was in the NatWest Group and also from this side of the fence where I've now started see a lot more financial institutions to speak with them. Now if if you NatWest is a perfect example because That's where I worked. And they wanted they're gonna have their emissions on their balance sheet by 50% by 2030. Oh my god. Okay. Right? Now that is no small task. Now if you've got large businesses, may that be in the oil industry or the aviation, the marine, whatever it could be, you're not gonna sit there and go, Mister Customer, thank you, but you are a higher meter in in dirty emissions, so we don't want you to bank with us so you're gonna have to find alternative arrangement. It's just not gonna happen. No. Not right for business. So the only way that they can meet that requirement is to put the energy and the resources into raising the profile of renewables, climate initiatives, and green finance. So the more you lend, it will then counterbalance -- Yeah. -- the emissions. Yeah. And more and more banks are coming out with commitments and targets and initiative. In some cases, it's PR. But I really do hope, you know, that banks are very much keen on driving this agenda because not only does it help them, but it also helps their clients as well because education is so important And -- Yeah. -- you know, you'll meet lots of businesses in in this market who are working in their business, not on their business. and that plays a big issue because you don't see the bigger picture. So I didn't wanna go off on a tangent, but I wanted to just set the scene on the banks of there is a big drive on Green Finance. Now what is Green Finance versus what is Standard Finance? Standard Finance is just what you and I will know in the banking world. Mhmm. Green Finance is very much related to technologies reduce emissions or improve energy efficiency. Right. Now is there a difference in providing a loan for I don't know. A piece of plant versus a solar system on a roof. Mhmm. there really isn't, but it's driving. But if we were sitting in a room with a client talking about a piece of plant or machinery, and you've been doing that all your life, it's quite easy to support somebody on that and say, yeah, we do that every day. Don't really need to know the asset It's a piece of art. It has a serial number on it. We can provide the funding over a 5, 6, 7 year period, 10% deposit, and the full VAT. We call that off the shelf vanilla funding.
Liz Allan [00:19:55]:
Right. Okay.
Hiten Sonpal [00:19:57]:
Solar for example, is very different. It's seasonal. Yes. It's not based on the the sun shining. It's based on daylight hours. As long as it's daylight hours. So as you know, winter, we have shorter days because it goes darker by 3:34 o'clock. Mhmm. And the sun comes out late as well. Whereas in the spring and the summer period, it's longer days, which means power is being generated a lot lot more. Yeah. And the value that we add, and this is where it comes with experience of doing so many transactions, I can sit there with the client and go, I will structure your payment based on the power that you're generating. Okay. So autumn and winter, we will keep your payments lower. Spring and summer, we will accelerate your payments. But all in all, you would still pay the same. Yeah. If it was a £100 a month, over 12 months, that's £1200. But all I'm doing is I'm just accelerating the payments on the 6 months where the daylight hours are a lot higher -- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. -- as opposed to the other ones. Yeah. And again, that then adds value to the customer's cash flow. Yeah. It supports the lend and it gives the client the peace of mind that there aren't gonna be periods in the year where they may struggle to meet that rim requirement and that payment. But let's not forget, when you go to a lender, it's not just about you know, in the old days, there was a subsidy that came in. Mhmm. But the client is actually gonna save hypothetically, let's say £10,000 a month on their energy bills by putting solar in. So we should be taking that £10,000 into consideration to demonstrate affordability because they've been paying it for the last 2 years anyway. Yeah. So if it's gone down, it's no different. It's only improved their cash flow by 10000 miles. and that's really important. So it's about the value added element of understanding the sector and helping customers get to their destiny a lot sooner rather than going through all the hoops that they're not aware of. because you can lose credibility in the market if you haven't got all of your ducks in a line before you go to a lender. Yeah. Yeah. And we provide a safe environment where clients can come to us, talk to us about what they're trying to do we can then advise them on where what areas they need to still focus on and how we can support them on that. And then once it's ready to go as a perfected proposal, we then go to market to start getting appetite from lenders and talking them through it. And I think that's the the key thing, that understanding it and lenders having the initiative to think outside the box and going, you know what? I wanna know more about this. I'm seeing more and more opportunities like this. and I wanna support these businesses. But there's only one way I can do that is if I get off my high horse or stand at equipment and go I'm gonna come and listen to this and try and understand what the risks are and how we can mitigate it to continue this transition. And, you know, charging infrastructure is a key example is, you know, So many businesses who want to borrow money, and lenders are finding it very difficult because there isn't a fix revenue coming out of it because you can't guarantee ten people are gonna use that charge point every day? No. Exactly. So it's that thinking and that mentality that we need to change, and it is slowly happening, but just probably not at the pace I'd like it to be. was gonna say, how how do you do that? And what what is it? What kind of communication
Liz Allan [00:23:47]:
with potential lenders do you have to kind of you know, put forward in order for them to kind of start listening? Is it is it you specifically going to talk to those lenders? because she said you've got about 200 lenders, didn't you? to increase that numb you know, to increase the number of lenders. Do you just need to communicate more with people? Do you need to be out there more kind of talking to people? what is it that you have to do to make that kinda happen?
Hiten Sonpal [00:24:14]:
So I think it was great seeing a lot of the lenders when I joined MHA, and a lot of these are ex colleagues as well who used to work at the bank as well. So it's very humbling that when they go, hey, it's thank god you've left the bank because we could finally work with you, and you're not a com competitor anymore. Right. So, again, there's a credibility on that because I've been doing it for a lot of years. Yeah. And some lenders who haven't even thought about this stuff could see the value that we could bring. So I I I do sit with them educate them on certain things. People will go at different speeds of on this journey. Yeah. If you've got someone who can help you through that process, then it's really important. But you have a dozen lenders who understand this, market, wanna work with you, and are happy to look at, you know, the bigger picture, not just, oh, it they can't afford it today, but know they can't afford it today, but if we lend this to them and everything goes according to plan, this would be a huge business. And You know, I mean, we're looking at a charging infrastructure transaction at the moment for about 30,000,000. And, again, it's understanding the technology, the risks we're getting the manufacturers involved to work on buybacks as well, so they can, you know, have some skin in the game. If we're gonna be using their product and this is a new concept that we're trying to create here, then they've got to have some skin in the game as well. We've got warranties to back up the project. We've got great sites where there's lots of footfall. the due diligence has been done on how many electric vehicles are in that postcode, all of these kind of things. There's a lot of work that goes on in the background. before even the project starts -- Yeah. -- to to to get moving. So, yeah, it's it's exciting stuff, but it's it's rewarding when you see it delivered as well.
Liz Allan [00:26:15]:
I bet. I mean, it it sounds yeah. It it does sound real hard work, but I bet it I bet it just to say, the I always talk about people kinda leaving you know, you're leaving a legacy, aren't you? Yeah. This this is the stuff that you, you know, you'll actually you'll be able to see grow over over the years, which is which is which is fabulous. So so I'm I'm I know the answer to this. I'm I'm gonna ask you this question anyway. What makes you different? You personally.
Hiten Sonpal [00:26:45]:
There's nothing special about me, Liz. Okay?
Liz Allan [00:26:48]:
No. No. No. No. Monster is.
Hiten Sonpal [00:26:51]:
I I think the the reason why I have a lot of people from my network from LinkedIn and the market come to me is I've been in the sector for a very long time. Mhmm. And I've seen all the technologies. I mean, when I talk to my colleagues in in in MHA, and I go, oh, yeah. We've got a transaction for an anaerobic digestion plot. They just look at me blank and go, what the hell's an anaerobic magic is like. But and, also, you know, what works and what doesn't Where are the pitfalls that we've benefited from seeing in previous technologies and how do customers, you know, not make the same mistakes. And I think that value that knowledge, you can't buy it. No. And, you know, the the charging infrastructure customer, again, he goes, hey, and you gave me a list of things I needed to do and that has really helped us make this a very, very strong proposition. And and just helping clients just to get to that destination is just brilliant. there'll be slow burners -- Mhmm. -- because a lot of these projects are not cookie cutter. You know, it's not like buying a car. You know? Mhmm. So it's a great 30,000 pounds. We'll get that auto approved for you in 2 hours. Just get an invoice, and we get it paid out in 24 hours that's the the the bread and butter stuff -- Yes. -- come through the business, but it's the larger structure. I like doing the stuff that people don't like doing. Do you? Because if I can find a solution for something that's unusual in the market, then every single other business in that same market will knock on your door and say, can you do the same for us? Mhmm. and we did exactly the same thing in the EV subscription market. where we supported one business -- Mhmm. -- but it gave me a reputation of someone who supported that market. Yes. and then everybody else knocked on my door and said, hey. Can we come in? We don't need to find the business. The business usually finds us.
Liz Allan [00:29:07]:
And that and that kind of, you know, that word-of-mouth
Hiten Sonpal [00:29:11]:
makes a massive massive, massive, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is is what you get? Yes. So, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and say, yes, I'm the best thing in this market, and I'm the only one that could do it. There are some amazing people in this market who have taken the initiative to learn the sector, the technologies, and the way things go, and we need more of them as we can't do it all on our own. No. Like you say, it's a collective and collaborative sector that everybody needs to work together. to get to the goal of get 0 by 2020.
Liz Allan [00:29:47]:
Yeah. And then and that's the the biggest reason for collaboration anyway, isn't it? And it's it's a bit like, you know, when we all when we all met in London. You know, for for the partner's day for Udi Cafe, that it just showed the amount of collaboration there was out there, and it was nice to see because I've worked in some sectors where you wouldn't you wouldn't be seeing Dead kind of speaking to one of your competitors. Would you know, to me, in which is to me, it's really, really refreshing to see the amount of collaboration and and kind of the the will and want to do the right thing together as a group. It just seems it's it's great. It's great to to experience, honestly.
Hiten Sonpal [00:30:30]:
I I I think that you said that the the sponsor's day was, I think, the tipping point, which demonstrated that there's so many businesses in a room, and none of them knew to an element of what each one did and what the synergies were. I mean, we got 3 businesses who we're talking to within that sponsor's day. Right. where we have tried to work with them and support them as well. And I think it just it's the power of that. that collaboration, that teamwork, and knowing what people are doing where we can add value. I mean, you know, what more could you ask for? And I guess it's brilliant what they've done there. It is and actually, to be able to network with people
Liz Allan [00:31:16]:
like that, I mean, for me, I was kinda I was humbled being in a room with such amazing people. You know? Yeah. And and just have been have been able to actually sit and and talk or stand and talk to people like that. It was just it was fabulous. you know, it really was. It and I and I I wouldn't I'm not trying to blow the EV cafes trumpet too much, honestly. But I do think that they're doing some fun things to actually bring people like us together and other people that were in that room, you know, because because there is opportunities for everybody out there. I mean, look at Look at the targets we've got, 2030, 2050. There's a lot of targets to actually fulfill out there. So so, actually, the more the more the merrier, I say, You know? Absolutely. Absolutely. So we've seen we've seen each other a number of times, but we've not had the chance to talk like this, I suppose. But if I said to you, If we're looking at 2030-2050, what do you personally what what would you like to have seen happen by by those dates? I know we're talking a long time away for 2050. But say 2030, what would you like to see happen by then?
Hiten Sonpal [00:32:29]:
Where do I start? big question that is is well, I think firstly, I don't just think about you know, EVs and charging infrastructure. I look at the whole picture for -- Yeah. -- to the UK. I think every single new home that built in this UK in the UK should have solar panels and isles, heat pumps as standard. If you don't do that, you shouldn't be allowed to build homes. It's as simple as that. Also, all commercial buildings, both new and existing properties should have solar as a minimum with LED lighting. And, you know, just to go off on a tangent on this list, I still can't believe people don't put LED lighting it. it is the most simplest thing to do whether it's in your home or your business because it uses 85% less power Yeah. Standard night. And paybacks are usually between 12 18 months. Yeah. And the lights last between 7 10 years. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. They're not like the old ones, are they? They're just blue when you when they felt like it. That's me. I get annoyed changing light bulbs. Right? So LED was like heaven for me. Yes. And it's just great way of reducing emissions, but also consumption, which means you don't actually need to use as much power. So -- Mhmm. -- I think LED and solar should go hand in glove -- Yeah. -- as a must on commercial properties, The minimum energy efficiency standards regulation, so known as me's, currently sits at eepc rating. And I know there is talks about it going up, and I think all build commercial buildings should have a minimum EPC rating of c or better before 20:30. Mhmm. So that's something for me. I believe that the UK government should support more from an EV charging infrastructure. everyone I speak to, the two big things that come out is planning and grid capacity. Yes. what I'm seeing is grid upgrades are killing projects. Yeah. No. So the cost I mean, I've I've seen a project with it where the grid upgrade was more than the overall project cost Just doesn't make sense. No. It doesn't. And if you look at where EV vehicle registrations are like a hockey stick hike and charging infrastructures just slowly going up. there's a big gap between the registrations. So that's kind of the areas that I see. And I think the only final thing, I was at a EV charging infrastructure conference in Berlin in February. and the transport department for Norway was presenting. And the one thing that made me chuckle, which I was I was blown away that they actually do this, but they are probably the most advanced country in the world on EVs and charging infrastructure -- Okay. -- to a point where if you bought a diesel or a petrol vehicle, your picture was on the front page, naming and shaming you that you call gas guzzler.
Liz Allan [00:36:09]:
Oh my god.
Hiten Sonpal [00:36:10]:
And that they showed us a slide of this guy standing next to his diesel 4 by 4, and he was on the front page of the Norway News. Oh my god.
Liz Allan [00:36:19]:
Oh, how embarrassing.
Hiten Sonpal [00:36:22]:
really get to that point. Like,
Liz Allan [00:36:25]:
imagine.
Hiten Sonpal [00:36:26]:
So I I look, I appreciate OEMs have got to transition. Yeah. Some have moved leaps and bounds to when we started the future mobility group in the bank. Mhmm. The choice is unbelievable. I mean, fully charged a few weeks ago -- Awesome. -- showed the new models and the new manufacturers coming out. I mean, I've never heard of some of these, but No. I've known me neither. You know, it reminds me I'm showing my age now. The the movies are back to the few feature. I mean, you've got some very futuristic move vehicles coming out, and cost needs to come down. And I think that price clarity will happen eventually, but I remember we used to do the the car allowance, which the government backed, where you got rid of your old vehicles, and went into a new one, they gave you something like £3000 regardless of whether the car was worth that. I think there should be an initiative of if you wanna transition from petrol and diesel to electric -- Yes. -- then we will give you x 1000 of pounds towards that. and I think it will help accelerate it. But like anything, on the flip side of it, the EV registrations are going up anyway. they're like, well, we don't need to support it because it's going up anyway. Benefit in kind was reduced when it was 0 in 2020. It's at 2% at the moment. till 2025?
Liz Allan [00:37:57]:
I'm not sure. Possibly.
Hiten Sonpal [00:37:59]:
Yeah. So, again, that's a huge benefit salary sacrifice drivers and company vehicles. Mhmm. I mean, I benefited from that while I was at the bank as well. Yeah. would never have anticipated to go to electric if it wasn't for that. Mhmm.
Liz Allan [00:38:14]:
But the financial saving was huge for people. And that's what we need, isn't it? We really do need cost savings. You know, there was a program on the TV last week, and it was about the price of, you know, which electric car should I choose. And what they decided to put on was kinda like a £150,000, you know, kind of vehicles that no joke public Yeah. Or Joanne Public, you know, would would actually be able to afford. And there were 4 of us talking about this in my some friends with the little what what's that group? And they were all saying, you know, well, it's gonna be some time till we can afford it. You know? And that and I think that's that's what everybody's so this to me, there's a couple of things people are talking about. This is the price, and there is the network, and there's the you know, I was I saw a message this morning on a group where somebody was talking in the telegraph about the fact that bridges might break with the weight of all the electric vehicles. And it was there was just the negativity in a way, what you're saying about with the government supporting, there should be some kind of communication strategy that actually communicates the positive side from the government about electric vehicles, not just saying, oh, yeah. We're expecting everybody to do this by 23rd. or, you know, onwards or there'll be no manufactured ones. But, actually, you know, don't let all this negative press kind of be be the only thing that's out there because people are just people believe what they believe they don't actually check up on things. Do they? I I say to my teenager, we've got teenagers, similar ages, haven't we? But I say to my seventeen year old son, I say, you know, If you're reading something, please check it out on a reputable source rather than just believing that it's that it's real, that it's right. Because actually, it could just be a load of touch.
Hiten Sonpal [00:40:10]:
Yeah. Exactly. And and and, you know, I've been driving an e b now for 3 years. And like I said earlier, this yes, I had ranged anxiety for the 1st few years. Mhmm. But you then adapt to the car. You understand the mileage. What how much you can push it. I love the fact that I can charge from home. Yes. We have 2 EVs in the house, so there's small runaround, which is our local driver. and then we've got one which gives us three hundred miles for our longer journeys as well. And it's just phenomenally cheaper. to, you know, drive from the Midlands to Central London. You don't have to pay congestion charge or the U Less. most cases, there is parking for EV charging in London where you don't have to pay for parking because it's expensive to park in Central London. And, yeah, I think planning is a little bit. I mean, I drove my car from Leicestershire to Cumble. Did you? I I stopped once.
Liz Allan [00:41:17]:
Yeah. But you would do though, wouldn't you going to Cornwall? You'd have to stop for a comfort break or a cup of tea or something, wouldn't you? We
Hiten Sonpal [00:41:25]:
stopped at an ionity charger, so the 350 kilowatt charger. Yeah. And my wife and my daughter went into the service station for a comfort break and just to get some food from the service station Mhmm. And that was 11 minutes, and I went from 22% all the way up to 75% in 11 minutes. it's I mean, that is just unbelievable. That took us back to the to our destination in Cornwall. Mhmm. We already rang ahead, and we they had a charge point as well, so we stayed. So note to any hotels or BMBs out there. If you haven't got a charge point, EV drivers won't be coming to you. It's as simple as that. Yeah. So -- Yeah. -- I had a fully charged vehicle every day. So, yeah, didn't have any issues. I mean, when we went to Lands' End, there was 4 charge points at Lands' End. Excellent. I was really impressed with that. because you're at the end of the country. Yeah. Right? Yeah. There's nowhere more of I think nowhere else to go in the middle of nowhere. So the fact that there was charge points there, I was really, really impressed.
Liz Allan [00:42:32]:
Oh, that's fabulous. And and like I say, you know, it is and everybody I've been talking to, it's it's just a bit of a behavior change, isn't it? But I'm saying that, it's it's not necessarily a behavior change. It's change of way of, you know, change of mindset because everybody stops unless you're really, really in a rush. I mean, personally, health and safety wise, I would never advocate driving two hundred miles with at least without one stop. Do you know what I mean? Because actually, you'll be shattered. You probably If you're my age, your bones will be creaking and all sorts. You know? And it's and I don't think it's particularly good for you to do a journey of that length you know, unless you really, really have to in one go. And after you know? So so it is just a it's a mindset change. Normally, somebody would stop. If they've got kids, they'd stop on the way, wouldn't they? Or even if you go into a business meeting, surely, you're not just gonna go the whole two hundred miles without a stop. even if you've got to be there for a certain time. And, actually, if you've got to be there for a certain time, go the night before.
Hiten Sonpal [00:43:36]:
And you have a bit of a rest. there was one question we always used to raise with clients, and there was a survey I remember that was done in the market. But people always are worried about, oh, the battery's not long you know, the range is not long enough. Mhmm. And, you know, on average, they're about 200 to 250 miles, I think, on average at the moment -- Yes. -- for your medium sized vehicles. But then I asked the question to the individual. how many times do you do a two hundred mile journey in a day, not many. Okay? Exactly. So you know you can get to your destination and back and charge at home in the evening. And if you really needed to do that, extra journey, which was longer than two hundred miles in a day, most of the major networks is being covered by gridserve anyway now. Yeah. So when you think of it that way, yeah, I guess so. But I've got half an hour to spend and this and that. But then I always say, I I've got 2 electric vehicles where which I moved from 2 diesel vehicles, and I'm saving roughly about £5000 a year on fuel cost.
Liz Allan [00:44:46]:
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yep.
Hiten Sonpal [00:44:50]:
When your bank balance is improving, trust me, you will make the change.
Liz Allan [00:44:55]:
I yeah. I was talking to a a a friend of mine, and he's getting a an ionic 5, a Hyundai ionic 5, a Hyundai, should have say. ionic 5 kind of, I think, in the next 2 or 3 months. And he he's he's they're gonna they're gonna with his work, so it's on salary sacrifice. he's actually gonna be have it in he's gonna have a charge point installed at home. He's lucky enough to have, you know, off road parking, so off street parking. So that's great. He hasn't got solar panels or a battery like we've just had, but he worked it out and it was gonna cost him £380 for a year to charge it. And I and it and he was and I was kinda thinking, is he trying to say that's too much? And he went, I can't believe how cheap that is. You know? And he said, normally, I'm putting between £18100 in fuel in my car on a monthly basis. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and and and this and this is the and this is the thing that people need to recognize. Yeah. There are things that that need tweaking. We do need to increase the EV infrastructure. you know, and make sure that the the charge point operators have got, you know, the charge points are actually working when they, you know, rather than broken down. and the you know, that there's plenty of them. And there are plenty of them because Sat Mab will tell you this. Like I say, I just feel it's the communication that needs to kind of be improved to Joe Public to say, come on. Don't just listen to all this rubbish that's going out there. You know? And there might be an old journalist who kind of come up with a negative comment because, actually, maybe his Jaguar iPass or whatever it was that he was driving at the time, didn't quite perform how he wanted it. So he's gone back to a a regular ice vehicle. Okay. That's one in however many thousands and millions of people who've got them. So I'm on I'm on my orange box now. Aren't I? I'm just I think it's, you know, It's really important to get that that, you know, just reduce that negative Nelly.
Hiten Sonpal [00:47:02]:
You know? Very true. Yeah. I'm talking with you on that. You're preaching to the converter there, Liz. I know, darling. I know I know. I'm hoping that there's some unconverted
Liz Allan [00:47:10]:
that are at she listening at the moment or watching when this this actually goes out because, you know, it is it is really important The prices do need to come down. Definitely, I do get it. You know? And when it's it's a stretch for every, you know, stretch for a lot of people unless unless you kind of you've you've got it through your job. Right. But, yeah, if the the if they can push the prices down, I think they're talking is it 2027 maybe?
Hiten Sonpal [00:47:39]:
Well, Tesla have already started making reductions on their pricing anyway. So, you know, we'll see if that has a knock on impact.
Liz Allan [00:47:48]:
Apparently, it has. I've just I've just spoken to a company this morning, and they've said since since Tesla bringing the price down just before Christmas. It has had ramifications through especially the used car the used EV car market. Because -- Yeah. -- and for us, we don't we don't need a brand new EV. You know, we're just we're just happy to have something that's got a few thousand miles on the clock. If it brings the price and then we're happy. Definitely. Yeah. So that's kind of what we're looking at, and that's what they've been saying. So, hopefully, by this time but but when this goes out, we should have one. We can't add it for a little while. So but but listen. Right. I wanna ask you final question. How do people find you? So So if they're if they're looking for for green finance, or they're just wanting to to talk talk to you about a few, you know, kind of ideas that they want to punt around a bit, Where where is where's the best place to find you?
Hiten Sonpal [00:48:43]:
Linkedin's probably the best thing, but if you type my name in Google, I you know, you'll find me straight away. There's only one hit and sound bad. I could tell assuring you on that. But, yes, LinkedIn is probably the best place, that will give you a good foundation background of who I am and what I've done in the background. And you know, like anything, Liz, we're here to just support and add value and help you achieve your goals and your opportunities of what you're creating in this exciting market of climate. And if we can play a part in that to support you to get to that end goal, then please feel free to give us a call. Absolutely. And the website so it's just if they everybody searched for MHA McEntire Hudson you should find the the website okay. But I will also went through a brand refresh only, and it went live today, Liz, actually. So Oh, wow. even simple now. It's www.mha.com.
Liz Allan [00:49:46]:
Excellent. Oh, well, you see. You don't need all the extra bits then. joining me. I will make sure that we provide all your links and everything in the show notes when this goes out anyway. So everybody just click on the show notes be below the video or below the audio, whatever you're listening to or watching, and then you will be able to find hidden very easily. But listen, It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. I think there are so many people that will, you know, will need your help over the next the next few years and and good luck with everything. I think it's and and look forward to to seeing seeing you again really soon.
Hiten Sonpal [00:50:23]:
Thank you so much, Liz, for having me today. And, yeah, fingers crossed. We all we can do is just work together and achieve that goal together. Right? Absolutely.
Liz Allan [00:50:32]:
We're all there. We're all we all stand together as Paul McCartney said. Nice. Without the frog chorus. Right. So on that note, I'm gonna say thank you again. And to everybody else, I'm gonna see you next time. See you later. Bye.