Liz Allan [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Electric Evolution with Liz Allan. This podcast is about the journey to a more sustainable future in order for us to be able to do our bit to achieve net zero. I'll be discussing a variety of topics with experts in their field in order to educate and increase our knowledge of clean energy, electric vehicles, and the electric vehicle infrastructure. So whether you're an individual who wants to make a difference at home, to small business or a corporate, this podcast is just for you. So today on the podcast, to I've got the wonderful Sarah Slowman, who is, and I'm gonna read this, director of Future Fleet at PayThru and project director at the Ev Cafe.
Sara Sloman [00:00:42]:
Thank you for joining me. For having me. I'm so glad to be here. I've been waiting to come on, so I'm delighted.
Liz Allan [00:00:48]:
Yeah. And and you're not last, to,
Sara Sloman [00:00:50]:
from the EV Cafe anyway, aren't you? So that's good. No. That wasn't Jhoni Berry, I suspect.
Liz Allan [00:00:55]:
It will be. It will be. Oh my goodness. So it's just so lovely to
Sara Sloman [00:01:02]:
to see. And we met in person a few weeks ago at the EV show, didn't we? Yeah. The London EV show, the Excel, that was fantastic. I was so happy to to be there not only with Pay Through, but also Ev Cafe because we got to moderate, basically, the whole of day 2 looking at how future technologies are changing the landscape for us in the EV market.
Liz Allan [00:01:17]:
Yeah. And I sat I sat in on your on your kind of discussion, which was which was absolutely brilliant. So it was just great to see all all of you guys up there, able and the experience that you've got and just how you how you work together as a team. It was it was it was fabulous. But I'm gonna talk about you. This is this is about you today. So your career has been very much in future mobility, hasn't it? So zero emissions, sustainability within councils and cross across industry. So how did you get into this sector, and and what was it that attracted it, you know, attracted you to it?
Sara Sloman [00:01:50]:
Yeah. I'm one of those sickening people that has always had a little bit of a vision about what they wanted to do. I can remember being a child poring over my father's Diagrams. He was a engineer civil engineer mapping out road networks. He used to bring over these catalogs of street bollards to and furniture for for making walking and cycling more more safe in a city. And that really triggered something in me as did the Rio summit of 92, watching all those leaders to shouting at each other about what they're going to do or not do. And so I just devoted my whole education and career to finding out more how can we develop able Sustainably. So it's not about halting everything.
Sara Sloman [00:02:25]:
It's about how do we get to where we need to be or want to be for kind of diversity, inclusion, and happiness, to But at the same time, not ruining the planet that we we live on. I've always been really inspired by that. And then another key moment was Al Gore's inconvenient truth. If anybody hasn't read that, it's just about the fact that we need to accept changes coming, but there's lots of measures that we need to deploy from sort of top down, unfortunately, a bit a bit more stick than carrot. So, yeah, walking and cycling is where it started, and then that very naturally evolved into kind of public transport and buses and working with businesses to ask their employees able how to change their behaviors to make sure that the cities in which they're thriving in aren't being congested as a result. And then that brain actually led to EV after that. So, to see our government money putting infrastructure in about EV charging and now I've jumped the fence very proud to be director of future fleet at PayThru trying to tackle that Middleware piece. The fact that when you go to a charger and it works perfectly, except you can't get the app to work, you can't get the payments to work, connectivity is terrible, which means you can't get a charge.
Sara Sloman [00:03:25]:
Yeah. And And I identified that as an issue in the market, so I was delighted to join James O'Neil and the team. We're trying to solve that problem.
Liz Allan [00:03:32]:
So that's to that's what middleware is then. So it's kind of like it is what it says on the tin, really.
Sara Sloman [00:03:38]:
That's how I think of it as as a non you know, it's it's a it's a fintech company. We we specialize in to Developing that software and that payment process. So a payment service provider is what we technically are, but we're very skilled at so we can to Create an app which is better for the user. So we put that sort of user experience at the heart of it. If if you're using it, how would you like it to function? And then serving the businesses that need to to paid. So it's an incredibly simple process that can be so complicated, unnecessarily so. And I'm just inspired by the The fact that with these brilliant minds who are behind the scenes of the company, we can reach out to all of the charge point operators and try to make that customer experience better because EV drivers at the moment where we are on the adoption curve, we're we're we're we can be fussy. Right? If we don't get a good experience at one operator, we will just go somewhere else.
Sara Sloman [00:04:27]:
We're not loyal at all. And so, you know, if we're all gonna make profit out of this clean technology, We have to have technology underneath it, the software that supports that. And so, yeah, that's why I was inspired to go there.
Liz Allan [00:04:37]:
Oh, brilliant. And you you've had a few I've I've seen in your kind of in your posts and and things like that, that you've had a few experiences, haven't you, with your EV and get and and getting the charge? To because you're quite are you in a quite remote area, or is
Sara Sloman [00:04:52]:
it just that you've kinda traveled to different remote areas? Absolutely both. And I I really don't believe in sugarcoating. I don't to think there's any progress in sugarcoating, and we need to move faster. Right? If we're going to make this happen, we need to work collaboratively, but also faster. And I I like to use my experience. So an early adopter of EV is someone that might have a driveway or a sort of an affluence level that they can afford the the EV and happily adopt it. That's changed now as much as it's becoming more mainstream. But I live rurally.
Sara Sloman [00:05:19]:
I don't have a home charger. The nearest rapid charger was 12 miles away, I just discovered 1 is only 3 miles away the other day, so that's changed everything for me. But it and I do 30,000 miles a year in my to EV. I've also got an electric motorbike now. I cycle as much as I can. I use public transport as much as I can. Yeah. So for me, it's about which transport mode best suits.
Sara Sloman [00:05:42]:
But in order to work that out, we still use apps. We still have to use travel planning tools, and and every journey I make is a cost, and that cost has to be reconciled. To And I love the idea that if we get this right, we can take away that pain for people choosing the way that they travel and take away the pain of how they're gonna pay
Liz Allan [00:05:58]:
for it. Yeah. Yeah. So So how long how long have you been driving an EV then?
Sara Sloman [00:06:02]:
Yeah. I was asked this the other day. So when I was at North Somerset Council, which is definitely one of my favorite jobs I ever had, able we had the, EV Soul. I like the EV Soul. We got access to the LEAFS as well, but I didn't buy my first EV. I didn't need 1. Didn't need it for work until 2019, I think it was. And then I had a string of them.
Sara Sloman [00:06:22]:
So I had the MG ZS EV, and I didn't like it, so I gave it back after, like, 11 months, and then I got the Kia e Niro 4 plus, which I fell in love with, the 64 kilowatt hour battery, and then it had 300 mile range. All the kids in the back Yeah. Loved it, and now I'm in a Tesla, which has been a whole different world.
Liz Allan [00:06:40]:
Go on. Why? Why why is it being a different to world. Because, obviously, you know, you see you see kind of a Tesla as just this kind of creme creme de la creme vehicle, don't you? What what to what's what's the experience? Why is it so different? I was a massive Tesla snob before as well. I just
Sara Sloman [00:06:57]:
thought, oh, people with Tesla. They don't know. They've just got their fancy cars, and that's it. And now I'm one of them. Like, this is terrible. It's a terrible situation. But at the same time, the reason I elected for it is that The reason it works is you this will come to the normal market, but when you plug in your car, you don't do anything. This was like witchcraft to me the first time I saw this.
Sara Sloman [00:07:18]:
You drive up to the charger. You plug it in. It knows who you are. It knows that that's your vehicle. It knows how to bill you for the energy that you use, and it gives you a pricing tariff based on whether it's a popular time of day to be using the the charger. So it's just genius. I do nothing. It's a really it's a lovely experience because The app and the connectivity within the car goes through to my phone as well, so I know what that car's doing.
Sara Sloman [00:07:41]:
I know if it's accidentally stopped charging or if to The charger has failed. Right. Now all those years of driving electric on the general network, that's been the biggest pain point for me is that to The hardware might be working brilliantly well, but if the software that supports it goes down, if the communication is lost or the charger doesn't start properly or the contact Payment device terminal fails, you can't get that electricity even if you're a millionaire. And I just think that's got to be the biggest problem to solve next is to messaging, communication, support, billing, all that software stuff that I don't yet fully fully understand. I understand the use case, but I don't understand all the nitty gritty of how it works. It's nuts to be at this position in my career and having to learn all of that again. But it it's worth it. Right? Keeps your brain functioning.
Liz Allan [00:08:24]:
Oh, god. Yeah. I'm flipping it. I mean, I'm just thinking, you know, how do they do it so well compared to how what have they done? Is it I'm assuming they've just invested a lot in innovation and technology and research and all that kind of stuff.
Sara Sloman [00:08:40]:
Yeah. But I also think they know what their market wants. To thrive. This is an example of when a software company makes a car, not when a car company tries to dabble in software. So you can have the even the Kia e Niro to afford. Amazing machine. I love engineering. I love cars.
Sara Sloman [00:08:54]:
I love anything automotive. But when I use that touchscreen, part of my soul died. It was just The ultra haptics on the screen, it wasn't sensing my finger properly, and that's one of the best cars on the market at the time. Whereas I got in the Tesla and just went, This is a robot car. I call it the my daughter and I call it the robot car. Like, should I start the robot car? And I tap on my app, and then it's all warmed up, and it's got the music playing when we get in. It's it's just crazy, And, she loves it, and I I like the idea. I once saw the 1st time I saw Toddington Harper from GRIDSERVE speak was at the London EV Show some 3, 4 years ago now.
Sara Sloman [00:09:26]:
Yeah. And I sat in the front row, and he was saying that his children have never known anything other than an electric car. And I remember challenging him on this going, you say that. They've known anything other than a very expensive electric car. The rest of us are not gonna be able to show our kids that. But already, In, you know, the sort of the 5 year time span of my daughter now being 9, she also would probably not really understand anything other than electric cars and walks around the streets going, oh, to Stinky diesel and petrol on the ground. It's lovely.
Liz Allan [00:09:55]:
And it is and it is it's like that. I mean so I've got a really I can't remember the name the name of this thing that I have, but I've got a really, really extra sensitive sense of smell. So if it's really cold, you you know, kind of a winter day. You know how it's been so cold lately. But we're filming this in December, by the way. So so it's been it was the real kind of subzero temperatures. And if I if I'm walking and a diesel car goes past me, in I can just I'm just, that's just horrible. You know? So able So, yeah, I think actually having a different life where we're going out and actually not experiencing those horrible stinks, you know, from to petrol and and diesel cars and just make a a massive difference to people.
Liz Allan [00:10:40]:
You know, your your children's age, my to son's age who's who's 17. You know, he's learning to drive in a petrol vehicle, and and it's a manual because I've kinda to add to said to him, you know, look. You need to kinda do this because otherwise, you you can't if you drive in it and not drive an automatic, you can't drive a manual if you ever have to. Able So, you know, I think there's a lot of change happening, isn't it, that's gonna affect them moving forwards?
Sara Sloman [00:11:05]:
Yeah. And it doesn't matter where you center your argument around electric. For me, it's about clean air. I mean, there's still a long way to go to make it entirely sustainable, but then whenever did anybody to that single occupancy vehicle use was ever sustainable, whether that's delivery or or or for your own private use. So we just need to work out how to best utilize cities And that kind of micro mobility fed into the standard EV. But for me, the clean air argument never goes away. People say to me, oh, but the Global impacts of creating all of these EVs and all of these batteries that you need for your industry. So I get these trolls and, on a quite regular basis, and I just constantly revert back to the same thing, which is none of us are trying to take each other out.
Sara Sloman [00:11:47]:
This is about progressing through to where we can happily walk down the street and know that we're not having tiny, tiny particles entering our brain, our lungs, our liver, places that you don't see. You know, we know from health campaigns that behavior change takes a very long time. Can take up to 18 months for a message to even go in that somebody needs to think about changing. We know from the fag packets that had the rotten lungs and the teeth falling out and the mouth ulcers, It didn't stop anyone from smoking. It still doesn't. But it shows us that if you go around saying, oh, Green, clean, better for the environment. It it it kinda just falls on deaf ears if you're that way inclined. But when you say you will have little bits of stuff that's floating around your blood and will enter your brain and probably cause you problems in your later life.
Sara Sloman [00:12:30]:
Suddenly, people are like, not sure I like that. And it seems unfair to me as well that we're encouraging walking and cycling when there's still so many diesel and petrol cars on the road. I remember just biking through Bath, turning up at university, a great life changing moment, And almost being sick, I was choking because I felt so so congested. I couldn't catch my breath because of the pollution. This is this is crazy, and I I then did my entire sort of Devotion to trying to build a cycle path, and, it I didn't get anywhere with it. It exists now. So this just shows me that the change is to coming,
Liz Allan [00:13:00]:
and it's
Sara Sloman [00:13:01]:
it's coming in an organic way, which I just love. So the more we talk about it, the more great people like you put your neck out and do these podcasts and how Far we can reach just to say we're we're not in a mission to change everything you're doing. We're just trying to make what you're doing cleaner and better for you. We're not trying to make people's lives harder.
Liz Allan [00:13:19]:
Yeah. I mean, so my husband, he used to cycle to work a lot, and then, Obviously, COVID hit, and he's because he works for Reading University. And and, actually, he doesn't cycle as much, but he will either walk or he'll get public transport, you know. But it did bother me because we live we live in Reading, and Reading is a really busy, busy town. And and actually, if I've if I've walked past all the traffic at all, you can just it's just so polluting. It's to just so awful. And I'm kinda like, yeah, we've got cycle lanes, but actually, that is just foul, you know, and you are bringing that in. So what he tends to do is he'll walk, to He'll cycle to the towpaths on the Thames, and he'll kind of go that way.
Liz Allan [00:14:06]:
And we've got the Kennett Kennett River as well. So He'll try and get to work on as many different places he can, you know, go without, you know, suffering that pollute levels of pollution. You know, because it is awful.
Sara Sloman [00:14:18]:
He's done, he's had to change his behavior to avoid the pollution. Right? It's no different in the EV market. So The whole point is about transforming the experience. So that, I listen to my CEO James O'Neill talk about this all the time at Pay Through that We have to find solutions that make things easier for people, and we're only gonna do that if we use EV specialists, so people who have experienced what it's like to truly be an EV driver. To suss out those pain points and then use the clever technology to create these platforms where it's just easy. You just turn up to the charger. You know where it is. You know if it's working or not.
Sara Sloman [00:14:53]:
You use the data to make sure that that's fed into the app and talks to the vehicle or talks to the person. We've got so so so far to go because even some of the best apps out there at the moment don't have the level of sort of open data that we need. We were at the EV show the EV summit in Oxford last week, and that was one of the topics that came up time and time again is that open data. Without the data, we can't feed the apps. So I can see this being a big challenge, and we're about to expand into Europe. My whole next year is about getting pay through, able with Eden 7 up hoping to be our partners for this, they help companies work out how to do ESG, so environmental sustainable governance, In a very, progressive way. So it's actually beneficial to your business to do that, so I'm spending most of next year doing that. But we're we're not yeah.
Sara Sloman [00:15:40]:
We're not gonna get our business to where we need to be until we simplify this experience of charging your car. It sounds so simple and yet so complex behind the scenes, And I think that's where I wanna see us being hailed as kind of the technology company with the heart in the right place. You know, we're trying to be as as to commendable as possible and work with partners. I I'm quite strict on our partnering structure, so choosing partners that also have the same beliefs as us, and that's the only way we're gonna affect change.
Liz Allan [00:16:05]:
Yeah. It's ethics ethics and integrity, isn't it? I always I always say, you know, that that's that's where I I come from. I try to be transparent. I'm I'm a Yorkie I'm a Yorkshire girl. You know? You get you it's kind of you know? I do what it says on the tin. I'm a Yorkshire girl. We just kind of say as it is. You know? And and actually But I'm very, very I've got a lot of morals and lots of ethics.
Liz Allan [00:16:28]:
So, you know, and integrity. And I wanna make sure that that's how my business is what my business is seen as. I'm not coming in. I don't wanna fleece anybody. You know? I'm just not that kind of person, but it's it's the same with you. You're you're a lot bigger than my business. Do you to to me, we're quite small at the moment. So so but you want you want everybody to actually see you doing the right thing for the right reasons, don't you?
Sara Sloman [00:16:59]:
And pointing in the right direction. I don't wanna be part of it. So, yeah, I I do I do really feel integrity is key, and and and you attract able Businesses to work with you then. You get clients who believe in you just by showing that you have heart, and what you're trying to do is intended as a sort of a sustainable, profitable, progressive business. What's not to like?
Liz Allan [00:17:19]:
Yeah. Absolutely. It makes such a difference. Do you know when you were talking about kind of the particulates and things like that, I was kind of thinking about, you know, the amount of plastic that we're to I mean, I know we're sort of going off on on on off topic slightly, but the amount of plastic that we use and the particulates that actually were so So we're not just breathing in pollutants, are we? You know? We're actually we're digesting particulates from from the plastic that we're using. So, you know, to I feel that that's that's kind of the whole thing about sustainability. It's kind of the it's just it's reduction, isn't it? It's change of behavior and reduction in what we're in in the ways that we're doing things.
Sara Sloman [00:17:57]:
And that needs systematic change. That needs everything being stripped back, reprogrammed. We it's to It's fine to just stick a few plasters on things and shuffle a few departments around to make stuff better, or my personal bugbear, my least favorite thing of all, Offset. So when people go, okay. I've done what I need to do. I've calculated everything. This is how dirty I am. How much is it gonna cost to clean me up? I'm like, what have you invested in? And half the time, it's things like planting trees, but not working out where those trees are going to be planted.
Sara Sloman [00:18:27]:
To And so you're going to release all of your carbon in approximately 12 years again. Because you're going to plant the tree, it's either gonna fall over and die and rot and then release, Or you've planted a tree that's gonna be cut down and used for chipboard or fencing, which, of course, will then not survive and released. And you've probably planted it in a place where that soil doesn't really like Those types of trees. So you've kind of killed the substrate of the soil as well. So I would always encourage people if you are offsetting to find a partner. And so I think Eden 7 is a great shout because If you work with them, they'll strip everything back for you and show you a sort of mirror. This is where you are. And then they'll work with kind of Projects rather than just trees, plant trees, plant trees.
Sara Sloman [00:19:05]:
Yeah. I'd be very wary. I that's one of the biggest greenwashing things out there is we plant trees for everything we do Unless it's proven. So like I said before, integrity is key. If you found a tree planting scheme that's local and you trust them, Absolutely brilliant. What I found, when I was working near Newcastle was they're planting trees in sacred places and schools and hospitals to gauge. Be the, other eye. I was
Liz Allan [00:19:36]:
gonna say investigation and that and just put a bit of research put a bit of research into it
Sara Sloman [00:19:41]:
to make sure that. I got hoodwinked. To Hello?
Liz Allan [00:19:44]:
Yeah. Just don't don't feel that you're just you know, you if you have to do it, if you feel you have to do it, do it right.
Sara Sloman [00:19:53]:
Be really open about it. If you've partnered with someone and you believe in them, celebrate it jointly. Make sure that you're because that is how we will affect change. We will inspire other people by what we achieve on a daily basis.
Liz Allan [00:20:03]:
And, actually, I'm gonna change what I said. It's not about feeling you have to do it. To it's wanting to do it in the 1st place, isn't it? It's recognizing right. Okay. So I'm I'm I'm doing this thing here that's affecting these people or, you know, on the other side. It's got a balance balancing it out, isn't it? So so, actually, what I need to do and what I want to do is to offset offset that in the right way.
Sara Sloman [00:20:27]:
Yep. I think that's exactly the mission I'm on with the Evacafe and with Pay Through is to Trying to inspire that change and accelerate that transition away from pollution and away from the old way of thinking that doesn't matter what it costs. Let's just get it done. Well, it does matter what it costs actually because everybody everywhere is trying to build these sustainable businesses. So why don't we find a way that we can help the environment And thrive. That sustainable development piece is often overlooked. Development isn't always bad.
Liz Allan [00:20:52]:
No. Exactly. And like and like we said, this is about what we're leaving for our kids And their kids moving moving forwards. Do you know what I mean? It's it's actually you know, we we wanna leave a a good legacy rather than a a then a bad legacy, don't we? You know? Yeah.
Sara Sloman [00:21:08]:
I got asked about legacy in my role. I know it says director of future fleet on the on the LinkedIn because that's pretty much my job function is Helping fleets to transition. So work out what they've got, what they need, and how we can help. But more than that, it's, it's about strategy. So my actual job title is this to teach justice. And the same with the EV cafe. I support John with John and Paul and Johnny and Sam with the kind of strategic piece. How do we reach more people to help more people understand what's to Available in the EV community.
Sara Sloman [00:21:34]:
But for me, it's about if you just take a minute to measure, you can see ways of improvement that you probably didn't spot before. And I think it's those incremental changes that will get us to where we need to be.
Liz Allan [00:21:45]:
Oh, Sarah, I've gotta say, I love that phrase because that is But behind me, there is a there is a word called kaizen, and basically, kaizen means small changes. It's incremental changes. It's what I live by. I live by continuous improvement, much to my my husband gets so it's like so it gets a bit weary with it because I'm always banging on about it. Do you know what I mean? But It's it's so important. We can we can we can do so much by doing just little things.
Sara Sloman [00:22:22]:
Yep. General attrition. A big geology fan. I do love a good rock, and I bet you didn't think that would come up in a podcast. But would you if you think about it, a lot of our landscapes are shaped to tiny little other rocks. So a whole mountain can be worn away by a river that's got rocks in it. You know, this this this blows my mind every time, and I think that's what's happening here is we you the the dirty side of our industry is realising that it has to change, and I don't want them to feel bludgeoned. I want them to feel invited, to Like come along.
Sara Sloman [00:22:52]:
Come with us. We've already tested some things, but frankly we need your investment. You know, is it is it time that we stop shaming BP and Shell and actually encourage them to come closer and see what we're doing. At the moment, I'm still underwhelmed. I still need to see more from from them. I'm so impressed with the 1,000,000 that's been invested in the public network for from BP again at the EV Summit last week. I celebrated that. I clashed with them.
Sara Sloman [00:23:16]:
Able but when I asked them if it was possible for drivers to download a VAT receipt, not sure. Don't think we're quite there yet. Why? Why are you not there yet? Why have you made a beautiful set of infrastructure that works on contactless but doesn't work for the biggest population of EV out there which is going to be fleet? Why are we not putting Fleet at the heart of everything we're doing? Because they will be our biggest users.
Liz Allan [00:23:39]:
Absolutely. And did could were they not able I take it. They weren't able to answer that at all then.
Sara Sloman [00:23:45]:
You get it. Yeah. It was 1 person turned to the other, said, do you want it? And then they sort of looked back, and I still had the to Don't worry about it. It looks like we're not quite there yet.
Liz Allan [00:23:53]:
Yeah. It's that, to me, it's that level of joined up thinking, isn't it? You know? Like you say, they've they've they've they've done this massive wonderful thing on one side, but not actually kind of thought about, oh, what the knock on effects of it. If to we need to do these. Oh, do we? Do we need to do these things? Yes. We do. You know? But it's it's again, it's probably going into that research and and looking at the big the bigger picture. So but yeah. Yeah.
Liz Allan [00:24:20]:
Hope hopefully
Sara Sloman [00:24:21]:
We're coping at the moment. I think EV fleet is definitely Coping. We're doing alright. We're out there. We're we're going around with our increasing numbers of electric vehicles. It's still very little percentage, you know, 2 to 3% of the market share right now, but That's going to increase exponentially. We're already seeing queues at motorway services areas. We're you know, hats off to Gritsev who are doing a phenomenal job across the UK helping us with that support.
Sara Sloman [00:24:45]:
The other thing is internationally, we're going to be moving around a lot more in these vehicles. So having a mind a mind on the future about how you can use your UK based lifestyle style in another country seamlessly. It's a very simplistic way of kind of moving around but having the same user experience. And I think that's where we need to think about is Not just individual use cases. People don't just magically step out the door, jump in their vehicle, go and do their work, and then come home. To There's so many things that go wrong in that process. Where do you find the next charger? How do you pay for that charger? What if you're not a member of that charger? What if you don't have a company credit card and you have to use your own card? How are you gonna claim that energy back? Can't you take a picture of
Liz Allan [00:25:22]:
it? Yeah.
Sara Sloman [00:25:23]:
You know, it's it's it's a crazy world. And you you're now with the rising energy costs. It can cost 40, 50 quid to do a a a recharge, and you're not gonna wanna kiss goodbye to that money anytime soon.
Liz Allan [00:25:34]:
No. Is that how much it's is that how much it's costing you kind of what would you what would you say The cost compared to putting, you know, like, fuel in a in a car is have you noticed the difference, or is it that long ago since you actually to drive a a No.
Sara Sloman [00:25:49]:
No. Of course. Absolutely. So I worked it out. I've got I had a family car, so it's sort of a £15,000 Diesel at the time. Mhmm. And I worked out the costs for the EMG ZS EV, and it was, comparable in terms of total cost of ownership. So the amount to Paying for it per month, but then having cheaper electricity charging overnight at home at the time.
Sara Sloman [00:26:11]:
Yeah. That worked out completely breakeven, so win win for me. To and then the next car was the same. The Tesla's a little different just because I've paid a lot more to have, you know, a fancy car, so the total cost of ownership is is on the fence. But then I went for a lease, So I've got wrapped charging included. So every month, I don't feel that pain of refueling my car because I've already paid for it because it's on a monthly fee that to stay the same. Oh. So I really appreciate that when costs are fluctuating.
Sara Sloman [00:26:34]:
I know exactly what I'm getting. I know I can get the energy from the places on the map, and it's all included. And that makes my life a lot easier. So it's it's very, very compelling.
Liz Allan [00:26:43]:
That's interesting to know actually because I I didn't realize that. So is that So wrapped leasing, is that is that normal for EVs kind of through leasing companies? I think
Sara Sloman [00:26:53]:
you have to shop around. It's hard to find, and my mileage is so high that not everyone would have me. Able but if you if you if you're kind of that average 7 1000, 8 1000 miles a year, a a lease that includes charging is is just fantastic. To And even if it doesn't, it's still a really it's it's a good way to look at getting an electric car is looking at a lease
Liz Allan [00:27:11]:
rather than an ownership model. Interesting. To So I actually, test drove my first 2 EVs last weekend. I was like, what did you drive? So I the first one was an MG 4. Able I've kind of had my eye on that for some time. And then the second1 was a Kupa born. So I've I've got a number of others that I wanna test drive because able I want to I I didn't have a frame of reference for this. Do you know what to mean? Because I was kinda like, right.
Liz Allan [00:27:33]:
I've always driven petrol cars. Able You know, I I'm not a diesel driver, but I do I do drive petrol. And I don't want a big car because there's only 3 of us. And a lot of the a lot of the cars, to you know, the EVs are quite big, so I've kind of researched, you know, researched all this. But the first 2, because they're quite close to where I live. MG was an interesting experience, maybe not quite good as Cupra because of me. I think it was the sales to team at both places. Not I'm not kind of dissing the sales team overall, but I think it was just a different very different experience.
Liz Allan [00:28:09]:
Able and also because I've never experienced regenerative breaking. So, you know and and actually, Somebody else had spoken spoken to me about this on the pod previous podcast. And, and also, the lady who I was sat in with was explaining a little bit about it. The one that the one at the Cupra show, you know, whereas the sale salesperson at the Cupra, place was actually She was she found it a lot easier to explain things to me, and also I knew the roads better. So by the by the time I got into the Cupra, I had such a to better experience in it. And I just was like, I just love this car. I love it. So and and the power just to blew me away.
Sara Sloman [00:28:56]:
At the end of it all, it's it's a new experience for all of us. People think I'm crazy because I learned in this country, you still have to pass your full motorcycle exam on petrol.
Liz Allan [00:29:07]:
Oh, do you do?
Sara Sloman [00:29:08]:
Even if you're not gonna drive petrol, so I was always gonna drive electric because it's based on the power output. You have to do the equivalent power.
Liz Allan [00:29:23]:
Your
Sara Sloman [00:29:24]:
to go
Liz Allan [00:29:24]:
all the way.
Sara Sloman [00:29:25]:
So I get that. And then but that experience piece is so key. Like, we see all these shows every single year, and the most popular ones are when they do ride and drive. So either be in the vehicle or drive the vehicle, and then you just get that experience and just feel like, actually, this isn't too different after all. And mostly people that go to take apart from that recharging element. They love the vehicles. They hate the charging. So if you're lucky enough to have a home charger, by far the cheapest way to refuel your vehicle, fantastic.
Sara Sloman [00:29:52]:
Wouldn't hesitate. If you don't have a home charger, I also still wouldn't hesitate so you can use the public network. However, that is evolving all the time. So So I think it's that balance between what are you willing to do, what's your available options, and also just keeping an eye on where public charging is coming. They're popping up in Supermarkets and car parks everywhere now. So you can do what we call grace charging. So you go there for a couple of hours and put some energy back in, And then that pace is equivalent of the miles that you've used to get there.
Liz Allan [00:30:19]:
Right. Blimey. Okay. Well, sir, I wanted to just to ask you. So I've got a few still got a few questions for you. But, how do you feel? So obviously, you are For the with the EV Cafe, you are just such a group of amazing spokespeople. Is that the right phrase? Yeah. You're a spokesperson, And and you've got a really good voice.
Liz Allan [00:30:43]:
Where do you feel that you're making that difference? How are you how are you making a difference to to kind of the whole, an EV experience for people.
Sara Sloman [00:30:53]:
We're making a difference because we're being honest, and we're putting that sort of heart and integrity in our message. Able So we're not there to profiteer off a thriving industry. We're there to encourage people to come along and just see what the chat is about. Able Maybe we'll dispel some myths that you couldn't get answered when you're at the car showroom because they're
Liz Allan [00:31:13]:
trying to sell you a vehicle.
Sara Sloman [00:31:14]:
You know, if you take the conversation away from the sales to. We can talk about renewable energy, recharging infrastructure, the vehicles themselves, fleet, leasing. Each one of us has to Nearly 20 years experience in our own respective industry. So that's a lot of wealth of knowledge that we're willing to give away. And then with our brilliant sponsors as well, we've got everything covered.
Liz Allan [00:31:34]:
It's to just so it's so interesting to listen to you. And so I am going to talk to you about the article that that my my own news hound, Chris Hunter, actually shared with me, and then I forward it forwarded it on to to John Curtis about this article that was in the Daily Mail. Now now I'm sorry. If people are listening, you're a Daily Mail fan, then that's great. On it, you're watching, and you're a Daily Mail fan. But I was kinda thinking, this title. I'm read I'm gonna read it now. It says, weight of electric vehicles could cause catastrophic catastrophic damage and lead to car parks collapsing.
Liz Allan [00:32:10]:
To Engineers warn Britain's parking facilities were not designed for hulking battery cars. So that is like a clickbait to title to meet my son, my 17 year old. We've got, that's just cook boat mom. But, you know, what what what were your thoughts about that one? I have my own thoughts about that the kind of the article itself. But what did you think?
Sara Sloman [00:32:32]:
Well, I flipped and flops because it's true. A lot of those legacy car parks don't fit. I can't get my car in there anyway because the it's so narrow. Oh. I can't even get in. So I'm not gonna be collapsing that car park anytime soon because to more for me to fit in anyway. The second thing is, my car's really heavy. It's, like, 2.5 tons, able But as is an equivalent sized petrol or diesel, like a Land Rover or something.
Sara Sloman [00:32:58]:
So, again, what It doesn't make any sense from that perspective. If you had 10 Land Rovers or 10 Teslas, it's gonna weigh the same. So I don't get that argument. There is something in it though about the the efficiency of it. If we're gonna continue to make these electric vehicles with the longer ranges until we get to that battery development stage where the weight is different, I'm not even sure if that'll ever come. You know? Able We can just imagine these vehicle weights aren't gonna change, so it's much more of a kind of building design question than anything else. And almost after them to do the clickbait because it's got everyone talking about social.
Liz Allan [00:33:28]:
Isn't it? I suppose my thinking was from continuous improvement. This is my brain going off in those tangents. I was talking about to you earlier before we started recording. I was kinda thinking if car park the the owners of car to talk to whoever whether they're owned by councils or whether they're owned by private companies. If they've not carried out any health and check health and safety checks or all kind of, strength checks. We're looking at similar things that happened in, you know, in Italy where the bridges collapsed. So we, Before COVID, we went we drove over in a in our petrol vehicle. We drove all the way over to Italy.
Liz Allan [00:34:06]:
And it and it was, I don't know if you remember. In in 2019, it was when that bridge in Genoa, was it Genoa? Yeah. It was Genoa. That that it collapsed. Able you know, are we looking at that? So is it is it the fact that we've not put any effort into recognizing this? Or because Over the years, you can't really compare a 1972 Cortina with the cars that we've got on the road, whether they're to treat electric vehicles or whether they're regular, you know, ice vehicles, you know, combustion engine vehicles. Surely, they must have done these tests. To they can't just say they're all gonna oh, I thought they're all gonna collapse now. Do you know what I mean? Come on.
Liz Allan [00:34:45]:
Prove to us. Why have you not done the work in the in these years? And, you know, and recognize that that's I'm getting on my orange box now, aren't I? But
Sara Sloman [00:34:54]:
Well, orange box is very seasonal. I like it. But I think the thing to remember is to Here in the UK, our engineering practices are so much higher than many other countries in the world. You know, one of the reasons why we're so slow at building anything is a commendable reason. It's because we want to get it right. We want to build infrastructure that isn't going to fail. So everything that's being commissioned from scratch to is going to have strict, but you're right. Have all of those car parks been revisited for safety checks? I don't I don't know.
Sara Sloman [00:35:21]:
I actually just don't know the answer. But I do know that cars have got seat belts these days, So it does make me hope that we're not mimicking everything in the 70s. I know.
Liz Allan [00:35:29]:
I mean, you would really think that they've done some work in the meantime. You don't just surely you know, when you're looking at roads and the way that that kind of road some of the roads start getting a little bit of subsidence and things like that. There's gotta be monitoring in the same way of of of kind of car parks. To so. So I'd I'd probably I put a question mark in, you know, around around this clickbait title. I get where they're coming from because I think it was able to British Parking Association, wasn't it? This one. So I get it. I do get it.
Liz Allan [00:35:58]:
And, actually, in a previous life, I worked in I worked in, in companies that kind of provided the, the entry and exit barriers to to car parks. Able So so, you know, I've kind of I've I've sort of seen I've seen some of this before, so we'll just we'll just have to see. But I thought that was quite Quite an interesting that Chris brought up. He was kind of he shared it with me and Michelle that the kind of we we all work we all working full circle. And and literally, I was just thinking, oh my god. So I sent it straight onto to John Curtis, and I just thought, I'll let I'll let John to John kind of see what he thinks, and then he passed it on to you guys. So it was great to hear it being discussed this morning because I found it really, really interesting.
Sara Sloman [00:36:41]:
Well, thank you for sending in. We invite everyone to send in these stories because the EV Cafe isn't there to pretend like we know everything. Far from it. We're actually there to invite new news. That's why we started doing the news sessions on a Friday because I don't read the script that John reads out because I want to hear the news and react to it organically. And that's what we should all be doing because we're in our own little bubbles, in our own little jobs, in our own industries. And, actually, if we share a little more and just admit that we don't quite get it and we don't quite know. It's just refreshing.
Sara Sloman [00:37:09]:
It just brings us back to that integrity and heart. Anybody that says they know everything Oh god.
Liz Allan [00:37:13]:
Don't trust them. No. It's it's you know and like you say it is just everybody contributing to this isn't it because we can all we can all actually do something to we've all got bits of knowledge And it's about pulling pulling it all together to make to make one you know, it helps people make more in informed decisions about the way that they wanna move forwards towards net zero or, you know, whatever they wanna do in their lives. I just think Well, even if profit is what
Sara Sloman [00:37:40]:
they want Even if profit is what they want, I'm all for it. You go nuts, but do it adequately.
Liz Allan [00:37:45]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you know, I want to run my own business, so, of course, I wanna want it to, you know, do well, but I want to do it in the right way. Definitely. Yeah.
Sara Sloman [00:37:55]:
I wanna be proud. I I really like that point about legacy. I'm conscious we've probably run out of time, but just to kind of say about that legacy piece. I'd like in 10, 20 years to look back and go I built that. We made that. This is the impact but almost more than that. I'd almost like to say in 10 20 years look at that isn't it rubbish look how great things are now Which is already happening. It terrifies me that what I was most proud of 3, 4 years ago, I now go, oh, we probably should have done a few things differently, but we did the best to We could at the time and it was it was award winning, you know.
Sara Sloman [00:38:30]:
It's a beautiful thing that we built, but at the same time it moves so fast. And I think, if you have if you have a plan, that's great. But if you're willing to change the plan, that's best.
Liz Allan [00:38:39]:
It's about that flexibility and being being ready to ready to kind of embrace very much, you know, from my side, it's about embracing change and getting people to kind of recognize its importance.
Sara Sloman [00:38:50]:
But don't you see that's what you're doing that's what you are doing so well with Full Circle. You have this incredible ability to pull people together in a room and they listen to you. You captivate people. That's why I wanted to be on your podcast because it works both ways. You get all of us on. We wanna hear you too, and you are one of these facilitators that will make change happen faster. To for
Liz Allan [00:39:10]:
that, I'm him. Oh, I'm gonna give you a virtual hug now. Thank you very much. Oh, listen. So
Sara Sloman [00:39:16]:
Oh, thank you. My god. Well, we
Liz Allan [00:39:18]:
did we hug the other week? I don't know whether we did. We might not have hugged. Sweet. I have another one. So so Just to wrap up, where can people find you? So what's Paythru's website to start off with? So is
Sara Sloman [00:39:30]:
it is it pay through .com? Or yeah. Just Google that. You'll find us. It's p a y t h r u. So it's spelled slightly differently, but I would just say come to LinkedIn. Come find me on LinkedIn. It's spelled Sara, s a r a, and Sloman, and it's it's a very chatty forum. I just want people to be open with me, tell me their problems, to And hopefully, we can help find solutions get up.
Liz Allan [00:39:50]:
And do if if people are watching or listening and you don't you don't listen to the EV Cafe news on a Friday at 10 o'clock, it's definitely definitely worth watching. This morning, John Curtis had pom poms on, and poor Sarah could hardly watch the to scream because she was trying not to absolutely pee herself laughing. Didn't you? That was so funny. Well, I had
Sara Sloman [00:40:12]:
I had a disco in the background. I had a little Christmas to going on. It was great fun, but I think if if the something you absolutely must do is watch the news on a Friday. We do a monthly webinar as well. It's a different theme each time different sponsors come on and talk about their issues. But what everyone says, unresounding, is that we've got a community feel. So it's about, you know, being mates, talking to about something that's very important. If it wasn't important, we wouldn't do it, but it is.
Sara Sloman [00:40:37]:
And our numbers are swelling, which shows us we're onto something. It shows us that people don't trust the information that's out there And that they need somebody impartial to kinda pick it apart and, go through it in in a fun way, and that's what we do. We always have this silly thing at the end. It's just Funner. It's not even a word. It's just the noisy words
Liz Allan [00:40:52]:
we say about that. Yeah. It's it's definitely fun, especially when you've got John and everybody. And you like I say, you guys are fabulous. So so listen. I just wanna say thank you ever so much for your time. It's been An absolute joy talking to you. I really, really appreciated it.
Liz Allan [00:41:11]:
And and yeah. And I I I want to I definitely want to be kind of to keep it in touch with you guys because you're just doing it. You just you're an inspiration. You really are.
Sara Sloman [00:41:21]:
Well, to Thank you, Liz, and you'd be welcome in the fold anytime. Yeah. Yeah.
Liz Allan [00:41:25]:
I love that. I love it. Love it. Love it. So on that note, I'm gonna say goodbye to everybody. To thank you, Sarah, and I shall see everybody next time. See you later. Bye.
Liz Allan [00:41:39]:
To tune with Liz Allen. Don't forget to subscribe and click on the bell icon, and you'll receive all of our weekly videos. Thanks for watching. To see you soon.