Good morning, friends and friends, I am Julio Pérez and this is the train of life, a radio adventure along the routes of the heart. I want to invite you to travel with me and dream together in a better world, a different world where men and women of good will can live in peace and freedom. The train of life is a magaxin of good news and hope. This is a radio time specially designed for people like you and as so many seekers of truth, of the only truth that can make us authentic,
the free mind see you. I invite you to travel with us on the safest train of all, which will definitely take you to safe harbour. This is the train of life. Or very good morning, Spain, bon day, friends and friends, impenitent travelers, tireless of the train of life. Thirty- one year later we continue to travel through the children of the human soul and the most intimate paths of the heart many times and also the present
day accompanies us. Let' s go there today too. But very good morning, ladies and gentlemen and ladies and gentlemen, also to all the pilgrims of the waves. It' s a very affectionate greeting from the one you ' re talking about. Julio Perez, a good friend, a good friend, I don' t know if to say of the soul. For so long I don' t think it' s because being a friend of the soul is being in the good and bad moments of life and it' s always being very close. No, but here we are. Here, are
we with God' s favor? Never better said, with God' s favor. We' re with you on this train. This is a living parable of the things of life the train. The train suggests really impressive route routes. Sometimes there are trains of these mythical, but also in our geography, in Spain, the train is an important element. It is associated with our good way of life. Now at the same time not only has the Euromet and Albia been left behind and I no longer tell the oldest trains.
But the train is still a suggestive place. Let' s go reading now. Everybody' s got their tablets, their laptops. There is also WiFi on trains, because what else we want. If this is Hollywood in the European version, and there we are. And that' s where we' re traveling on one ho and the other. And today we will also pick up good friends from this traveling train We will be in first place, today we will pick up our friend Gina, Gina Campallance. Gina Campallance. She
was originally an artist, she was a singer there in her years. Well, it' s not that I' m too old, because she always jokes about her own person, but it' s not much less. She is a woman with a lot of nerve, with a lot of determination and, obviously, she is the president of the association to help mourn those who
are grieving. Saying goodbye already lost a son in the flower of youth, a boy David, a beautiful boy that I knew very well, the letta boy that things were going very well and in a way also unexpected, suffered an ovite in the sea and well, since I, for imagine for a mother and then, from there, she started, because her process was long to disconnect from bitterness and I do not know of so many feelings found because
of the loss of a son in the flower of life. And of course all this to her took her later by a person who always gleaned if a person very quiet for everything, communicator, worked on zero wave also as an
announcer. She has been a singer, the woman of faith too, but a very enterprising woman with her husband, Julio architect, a renowned architect there in the city, on the island of Ibiza, And well, this led her to think about helping others, the people who suffer this handicap of the loss of a loved one and organized meetings, conferences, radio programs, she was for a time, a year, she was in Barcelona for professional reasons
and the truth that she even worked with us here with a weekly program in wave peace and the program was, say, goodbye and all. And it ' s years and the concern for this and it' s still there and
it' s still there. In fact, they are going to have a forum, a conference to a workshop shortly that also communicates us of organized by the Spanish Evangelical Alliance also in this regard and we will be talking with how to process, how to manage the loss of a loved one and how to deal with it and until when how to what Well, there are several questions that we are going to ask you to help us to answer them from your experience and that of so many others that you have already seen and heard and
have gathered many things. Well, then, this will be the first stop of the train of life with Gina Campalans and we will arrive at the second, our friend, Dr Rocca. Again we' re going to take back the doctor of this traveling train, the train of life with the dotor. Rocca is everyone' s doctor in this house. But today, about spring, that blood alters and allergies shoot, the sacks begin to seem devouring, they begin there to attack all the most hypersensitive places, the allergic vulnerability of
human bodies. And there' s the other rock to go through. How to try to see those allergies and also what are the most relevant treatments against allergies. Well, then, we' ll be listening to you here today on the train of life, to our friend, Dr Roca, talking about allergy treatment. Let' s see what he tells us and then we'
ll finally get to an interesting station. There we are already going to get a little more sane and we are going to talk to Don Alfonso Ropero, Alfonso Ropero for us Alfons Ropero is a walking library and that is eh, apart from that he is a bibliophile man in the most benign sense of the word, because he has a huge library in his house in Ciudad Real, and he has been for many years Clie' s publishing director. Now he ' s retired, but he' s still working on some issues. He
is a national and domestic lecturer. He is a historian and also a writer of very good works, and we are going to talk to him today about something he has worked and published in CLI, among other things, and he is the apostolic fathers. We' re not going to see them. I
' m going to put in perspective. Those who understand more than they are readers know what I am talking about, but some of us are not so up- to- date about this is the successors of the apostles, already, for example, John Policarpo Tertullian, a little later, Ambrose Gregory and all the fathers of the first century, especially the second century III, especially those first three centuries, who were the men of faith who led the church
of Jesus Christ in the midst of those avatars until Constantine arrived and somehow made the Edict of Milan, with the conversion to Christianity of the Roman Empire, which was beautiful. Also at first it was impressive because it was super positive, but then everything became institutionalized and lost vigor, lost strength. Christianity with
that, too. But evidently it was also Constantine' s political strategy to unify the empire of the time in the 4th century And well then there were already characters like St Augustine of Hippo in the 4th century and a little later, and the truth that they were insignious characters and others and so many others and what they told us. These men also had to fight heresies, some
very important against the Christian faith. But well, Augustine Dipona was an enlightened, he was a teacher of philosophical rhetoric who experienced a dramatic conversion to Christ to Christianity. His mother Monica stole God for her life, because it was
once he lived a very dissolute and such life, but very interesting. But then he became a man, a champion of the faith, and he contributed much to Christianity and so many others, and it is interesting to see and all these men have created historical sequences and have led the Church by the best possible ways in the midst of many historical avatars, incidences of kingdoms, attacks
and counterattacks, persecutions, martyrs, favors and misfortunes. Well of all good, then we' ll talk to Don Alfonso wardrobe about this issue here, on the train this morning don' t miss it. Today here and on the train we will travel together. Here we go. You can send your message through our Facebook, through our Facebook entering between its double- point see the train of life, point is the train of life, point is. They remember that this way you collaborate with us. Tell us your impressions,
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meet you. Enter our website three month double points the train of life, dot is and follow us through Facebook, through fok even if the sun stops shining and the moons will turn out the night, even if they are denied coma and once as I go through if in fine I will not meet, I will rejoice and in front of the war I will smile, although the bird of which they sing to me and a dense fogmerde even though the fire no longer hot the same already it costs me breath, I will not give
up, I will not give up, I will rejoice who amate you already will smile, I will not give up, I will resist and in the resist. We will cross the valleys and the great finite cities, plains, midst of the test I will overcome, I will not laugh, I will endless mountains, low that not of stars, come out soldiers of flame, we will open the way to where we are sold, We are pilgrims, see these stations the arrows, my bimsic words, Masto does not rekindle me,
I rejoice and before the war or will not surrender me? Georsstigan and, in the middle of the test for your safety, wear the belt. We' ve replaced this announcement of nine hundred and seventy- three because not putting on the seatbelt looks like things from the pin. Let' s look at the effect of a collision at fifty kilometers per hour lin pin tulo, but it isn' t and one in four road deaths wasn' t wearing
a seat belt. Put on a belt Directorate General of Traffic, Ministry of the Interior, Government of Spain. I want next to me to control everything you do, you see and you feel. If there' s everything you get, I want fat time. Abuse doesn' t come suddenly. Ministerio de Sanidad, de Servicios Sociales a egalidad Gobierno de España. My project, that my grandson, my man, is super- grandmother, is a pillar and shell and one of them has depression, but their dreams, like any
other, have no limits. Let' s not put them on us. Integration is always the best response for the social inclusion of people with mental health problems, Ministry of Health, social services and equality Government of Spain. If
you want to visit our website, the wwwww. Point the train of life, the train of life or better, ladies and gentlemen, we already have our friend China Campallance in the bud, talking to us today about keys, because we need some keys to overcome the mourning for the loss of a loved one. The death of a loved one without a doubt is a traumatic episode for those who live it, for those who go through that experience, it is as if a piece of the world had been completely broken, like a
part of the map that had disappeared. For us he has or has to suffer it, he has to learn to live a life in which that loved person will no longer be and it is not easy. It must be through grief and with an emotional response to loss, which is long and the answer is sometimes ambiguous. Not many mixed and painful feelings, but it is necessary
to regain stability again. And let' s talk to someone who is precisely president of the mourning aid association, like Gina Camparals, say goodbye also as he told them in his own experience has lived and he has lived with many others who he has accompanied during their lifetime. And there we have it. Gina Campalance, good morning, Gina good morning, July, long time no
see. There yes, yes, live and live, virtually wanting to see you and see you, our dear friend Julio, my compadre hears talking about the subject, the theme of mourning is a thing that is always good since you lived the dramatic experience of losing a child. Right, that' s where it all starts. Not sure. Evidently, I never thought it would be for this that I would dedicate myself habitually and professionally. I don' t know what to call ministerial. Or, well, what I spend more
time apart from my family, is really this. But, as you have made clear, twenty years ago, our eldest son, we had six children and on September 12 of the year two thousand three, David, who was
our eldest son, died of a scuba accident. Then, evidently, our life was paralyzed, so to speak, our happy world up of the great family, for of course, there is a before and there is a after, because you can' t expect anything like that to happen in your life and for any family that suffers a loss of a child, for it is a tsunami, yes, and but thank God, it had to be enough years for me, to put it this way, to go through it in a healthy way. I mean, I' m not traumatized. Our family
' s fine. We can talk about David normally without everyone crying. But obviously David' s gone. Then we have had to relearn to live without him, to cling to other hopes, I as a believer to the confidence that one day I will see him again. But you have to relearn to live without the presence of absence, that is, with the absence of the presence of your loved one is not an easy way. As you said, there are no magic formulas, but it is true that there is an ingredient
that is what makes the difference and is the attitude. I always say we ' ve had hundreds of people we' ve been with all these years and right away, not right away, but soon you realize the person you want, you want to get back on your feet and the one you don' t. Then there are two groups of people. There are people who fall into the poor victimism of me because it has happened to me, because if
I am a good one, if I did things. Well, there are people who just don' t understand why it happened to them and then get stuck in this question. And then there are people, because it costs them, but they accept it and then they try to reconnect to life clear tools that they have around them and with what they have, of course, because that' s what we have to learn how we can help ourselves. But someone has, someone has. It is good that someone is next to these
people who live in the loss of a loved one, of course. Obviously, recovery will be better if there is a good family support, of friends, of grief support groups, although it is also important to highlight Julio that not all people, i e, need external help. That is to say, I believe that within the human being there are capacities to survive the most
tragic events that may occur to us. But, obviously, to have a support around and people who know how to understand that they can listen to you in a quiet, active way, without giving you advice, without making the famous phrases made. It has been God' s will or you will have another son or lived the time. In short, there are phrases that would be better not to pronounce them. But of course it' s good to
be with you in this process. What happens many times July is that this is a very long process and most people, both friends and people in your community, of faith or family, are there for a while, but then they get tired, among other things because they don' t know what to
do or what to say. Then the person is left alone with it, feeling the same intensity of pain, and it is usually when they ask help groups where they see that already in their environment they do not even dare to verbalize their pain, to express it with weeping, because they think that they are tiring those around them and then they seek a space in which they can be understood, where the common language of all people who meet is grief.
It is the language of mourning, of course, because there are the stages of mourning. The confusion, the anger, the anger, the pain, the guilt, the sadness, finally, the affectation and the restoration. These are the seven stages identified. As you identify them like that, I kind of do. In fact, what happens is that many times these stages can be overcome. I mean, I always say and besides, I just lived it a short time ago because the mother of a friend of mine died,
the husband of a friend of mine died. So I' d say the first part is like the show, I mean, the person doesn' t just believe that this is happening, even when it' s funny Julio, even when we could say that there was an announced death, not because of a cancer disease, a long illness, like the person should be preparing for
the end. And yet, my surprise is that, well, it' s no longer a surprise, but I was shocked, but I keep seeing that people don' t think this is going to happen they always think that there will be a pill or something, a new medication, and that will make the person finally not die. But, as I was saying in that first stage of the shok, the person does not assimilate it. But it
has some advantages. This first stage is that it allows you to do all those things that need to be done when a loved one dies, I call you I know how to get in touch with the funeral pomps, do the funeral, the preparations that I tell you. In these days I have been remembering how it may be that Julio and I, after David died, the next day, could be talking to a gentleman quietly, quietly in quotation marks, the coffin you are looking for, the people you are calling the newspaper
' s announcement the flowers. But this is because emotions have not yet blossomed, that is, they have not exploded. You' re still in a bubble where you just didn' t believe this. Then, as you well say, there is a whole process at this stage in which it already begins to emerge, since all the anger, sadness, misunderstanding, non- stalgia, well, a whole series of emotions. Then, little by little, one comes to what is called acceptance. And in this process it is when
we can begin to elaborate, healthily, because the process of mourning. And, lastly, it would not be emotionally relocating the deceased and continuing to live, that is, adapting yourself to the fact that he is not present. But you' re integrating all those memories that you have with that person and, of course, it' s not about you forgetting it and going through it, but you learn to live without that person, because you should learn. Not everyone gets it, of course. But there' s another one
among that you' re mentioned, which is very interesting. There is a danger and it is not to process the duel well, that is, to make a shortcut, a momentary run forward. But if there is not a well- run process, this can turn out to be a boomerang that can turn you back and give you a very strong one in your life. You can' t come down. We are clear, obviously, as I have
always said. I mean, grief is not a disease, it' s a natural process, absolutely natural, as it is a reaction, as if you drop boiling oil on it, because you have some burns, then you have to pass some balms, you have to make some cures sooner or later. This is gonna be all right. If you obviously don' t put on the right ointment or don' t put on, don' t do it, this can infect you then with grief at the emotional, psychic and
spiritual levels is exactly the same. I mean, mourning isn' t a disease, but if you don' t perform those tasks we call what we should do during mourning, mourning can be conquered. It can become a pathological flight. We can get to have what a deep depression. And that' s when you really need psychological, psychiatric help and there are people who have a hard time getting out because look. I' d like to read you what you' re looking at. This is the brochure that we have from
our association can not see no. Yeah. Everybody does, yeah. Look I' d like to just read this to you which is very important, because I think it' s what helps people. It says the benefits of attending groups, of helping grief or not, but what it says is the fact that putting words to pain helps a lot to start healing it. We know that the only way to heal grief is through it and the best way
to do so is to experience and express the emerging feelings. The pain, the sadness, the going to, the guilt, the shame, the longing, the disbelief, that is, the tasks of mourning partly have to do with that verbalization that express how I feel. So, in groups, what we do is we actively hold and listen to these people who need to repeat over and over again, because I was at home and the phone rang and they told me that my son had had an accident and we had to go
there. Then you' re putting order in the middle of the confusion and you' re slowly assimilated. This is real. Then go expressing how I feel. I feel like that day you might have been mad at your son, at your husband, and a few hours later they tell you he' s dead. Then it' s there. Often the feeling of guilt is left in many of the following. That too, the feeling is curious,
but it is very true. Hey people who have got something left behind with that, but or something that hasn' t done well and they think they ' re part of the problem causing death and everything, and this is very fustigating. Not sure, that' s very fustigating and then it' s one of the things to try to help the person first forgive himself in case
he might have some guilt. That is to say, imagine some parents that it is the birthday of their son, who turns eighteen, buy him a motorcycle, The boy goes out with the bike and has an accident and dies, that, of course, that is left to that family. If we hadn' t bought him the bike, then well, we have to work hard to free people from what good we' re going to see was an accident. Another brother had a motorcycle and it didn' t happen to him.
Then it also depends on how the child drove, not that of skipping a traffic signal or running too much or simply that it was an accident. I mean, getting people out of guilt isn' t an easy task, but we' re trying to work a lot on this. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, sure, it' s very important. It is very important, after that what remains is also I think that during
the meeting groups, where it is verbalized. That is very important, because when people sometimes talk on a recurring basis, they also free themselves from these things. And it is that a group therapy that you also perform, in the groups that you good organize to see. It' s funny, because we say that a meeting group is not a self- help group or a
therapy group. A meeting group is a group from which experiences are shared and experience is not considered therapy, but development, that is, groups are not necessarily therapeutic. That' s what I' m talking about. Yeah,
sure,' cause there' s that feedback. I tell you, I tell you how I am, what happened to me, and there' s another person who' s listening and maybe he' s at another point and listening to the other person as the tools he' s used to go through, through, help, so there' s a therapy generated among people who are through using the same situation. Yeah, at that level, at that
level I understand therapeutic. Yes, but it is true that, as you say, and then there is a question throughout that process longer or more not so long for some and longer for others so many and some lake to others pathological, because never get rid of him that mother or father that carries in the soul this and there is no way. The tragedy that happened with your son or wife or husband is always present. But good memories also when processing
those groups, it' s important. Either in family or between husbands, the good memories of the person who is already deceased, disappeared are very important, right. I think so, because they are fundamental, because when a family member is missing, what can' t is not going to disappear from
the map of that family. So, for example, since David died, from the zero minute since the first year, we commemorate that day, then we remember David with pictures, with videos, we remember anecdotes, so what we do is that what we should do is not take that member out of the family as if it had never existed. This happens on many occasions. I mean, it' s such a taboo that there' s around the person who' s passed away, that you don' t talk about it
anymore. It doesn' t matter, it takes out all the things that were there from that person and because it hurts them, because it' s very painful. At first, I realize that the encounters we have now, after twenty years, or even those we had ten years or fifteen years ago, are not the same as those we had at the beginning. In my case, I used to take a little pulse from the family. How were
the rest of the family, because this is very important. Julio. Many times when a mother loses a child she forgets that her other children have lost her brother, that the father has lost his son, that is, I have lost my son, that I carried him in my bowels, but my husband was her fishing companion. They had their brothers. He was a very important figure to them, their older brother, that is, the whole family hurts. Then you have to work with the whole family to help get through
it in a healthy way. And it' s true, as you said there are many women who, and above all I wouldn' t say that it doesn' t happen now, but everyone, everyone is. We have in mind the image of these women dressed in black in time in villages or in many places where as a child had died when, therefore, they have stayed there not and is the victim of the family and the family cannot evolve
because there is a member is always suffering. Not how interesting the whole subject, talking about how to overcome through grief, a process of mourning, the loss of a loved one. Hey I give a little strike to the interview with one thing that was going through my mind at first and it' s a little bit may seem a little strange, but not to me, it ' s not and I would like you to do a reflection on this. I was thinking about the war in Ukraine, the loss of so many children
who lose good. Here we have several orphanages, even in Spain, in various places of Ukrainian children, in Europe many and then the women who have lost their husbands countless of them and well, and entire families who have also died from the bombings of this sinister character who indiscriminately attacks Ukraine to invade it. But beyond political issues, that is, the loss of a country like this, the trauma has to be enormous. Huge, right, it'
s a country in mourning. It' s a country in mourning and it ' s obviously going to leave some impressive sequels. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we don' t know how long it' s gonna last, but of course, as you say, separate families first. We' ve usually seen most women, grandmothers, mothers with children, fathers stay in front of us on buses. That separation already leads to trauma in families. Then, then, if they find out that the father has passed away, for imagine,
this will require many years of help. Let us trust that there are organizations that put in place psychological aid plans, because it is a traumatized country. Yeah, and I' m gonna tell you an example that has nothing to do with it, but just so you see it' s like the tip of the Iceberg last year, not the other one. He died in Ibiza in a French boy from French school. He died tragically, very young, at the age of twelve, making Snorkell also died gado. As David
I had an only child and I was called from French school. I was called by the director of the French school to see how we could make an intervention in crisis because the whole school was in mourning. The parents were in mourning, I was in the teachers, the parents of the children going to class with their children were in pain, with this child and all these children
who had lost their classmate were in mourning. So, imagine, this child dies because a week before the start of French school, which you already know begins French school usually starts a week before national schools. Then I remember, because having to give talks and help the whole collective. It was a collective duel and I did see the most that impressed me clearly. The parents did not know if they still had to see the parents of this child who had
died. The children did not know how to manage the loss of their classmate they had been with since they were five or four years old. No, then we use it. I went with a partner, with a girl from my team who has also written several books about the help of the grief that is called" Thanks life for how to teach children" And then what we did was in class. We took off all the tables and we all sat on the floor, we all sat in a circle and then with a cushion
we were passing this cushion as a child. Every time a child had the cushion in his arms, that is, he had it, he had to comment on how clear he felt. The children began to verbalize for the first time what had meant to them the death of nells of this child and then, well, it was tremendous July, when one began to cry and the other began to express that he dreamed of him and the other that he would not see him again and that where he was was tremendous, that is,
it was therapeutic and helped them to a barbarity. So I think all these people, especially these kids that you were asking me, what they' re going to need is to verbalize how they feel, that is if they leave it inside. These children may end up very traumatized, but they find a channel through institutions, groups that worry about helping them express themselves. I assure
you, they can be fine. You do not understand why they are clear, because in addition to the horror of war, besides the loss, which is the worst of everything and the disappearance of families and sometimes entire cities, the horror of everything, of the noise, of the noise of war,
of the situation of chaos. And that must also be borne in mind that I have spoken to many of the Ukrainians, of those who have arrived and of those who have already been here, and the Ukrainian people are a strong people, they are a brave, wary people, it is probably in Europe of those who are most eh and that is good. But yet it is insufficient, because the tragedy is there. But, well, anyway, we do good in help, but good was a note or it' s not
okay. I believe that specifically yes. Yes, I do not know whether Ukraine has already entered the European Union, or is about to, not yet, but it is, it will, it will, despite the whole of it. I believe that this would be an outstanding subject for the countries that are neighbouring and that we have not gone through that war to take over.
I want to say if, thank God, this war is over and they are starting to return all to their countries and all first of all the state in which they are going to find their homes, their country, their city, that is, this is a collective drama, but I believe that one of the tasks that the rest of the countries have will be to help, to send psychological help, that is, to help alleviate all this situation that all these families have left. No doubt. Surely that is certainly envisaged in
the reconstruction of Ukraine. When the war ends one way or another, it will have to end because and then the reconstruction will most require a very, very large, very massive psychological attention. Yes, it' s true, and as far as this aspect is concerned, we were talking about therapies, accompanying water therapists. In fact, you do that, you do it so much with so much affection and with that burden that came up in your heart
to help people in this emotional crisis situation. But also, in addition to all the tools that are the most interesting for the day to day, there is also faith and spirituality, truth, also that is an important ingredient many times in this whole process of pain, truth, well, many times I think it is fundamental, because, obviously, I always say that faith makes a big difference. Having faith in God. Having faith in God in the
midst of a tragedy like this for me marks two great differences. First, we believe that God is good, this is not a punishment, that there is a purpose behind what may have happened and then we hope that we will meet our loved ones again. So I' ve seen for all these years, as you know, our groups are neither evangelical nor anything, i e, they' re grief aid groups where people come with faith, without agnostic
faith. I' ve had even a Muslim woman, we' ve had people with all the philosophies in place, and then it' s clear that lack of faith makes such a thing meaningless. I' ve also seen, unfortunately, Julio. But it is also part of the process of people who have staggered in their faith because it has been raised, as I told you at the beginning, because God has been able to do something to me, as if it were a thing that God, a direct intervention of God to
harm you. Then I have seen believing people that their ugly staggered in the midst of this, and yet I have seen other people, for they have grasped more, whether or not they believed. Now we have the case of a man who was not a believer and yet his wife has recently died. On Christmas Eve, his wife dies, on Christmas Day, his mother dies. A few days later he dies of his brother. Then a man truly troubled, a name which he has found in the priest, in the priest
who is in the people, for a balm of peace. That' s good, I' m amazed. I' m looking forward to meeting this priest. I' m going to go see him one day because I realize that the person who came in this man, who came in at first a few months ago, who was very angry at everything and I see how he ' s calming down. Then he tells us in the groups that I have spoken to this priest and that this priest has given him a series of advices
of words that relieve his soul. Then this man is clinging to the faith he did not have before the death of his wife, mother and brother. However, I have other people who were very believers who participated and I am referring to a general Christian belief. Most who connect are Catholic people, because they had their own fellowship that they went to their Masses and stopped going and
attending because they were angry with God. Not then, well, what I do in these groups is talk to them about what helped me and I grabbed God like an anchor. You understand I said this. If I' m not holding onto him, I don' t know how I' m gonna get through this. But I can also tell you July that faith does not free us from suffering. Of course not. That is, there are some words of Jesus that say in the world you will have affliction, but trust
I have overcome the world. Then I interpret this as suffering. No one ' s going to take it from me, that is, I didn' t suffer less because I was a believer. Come on. I spent a long time, but a long time it was a pain in my chest. I remember it was like a daily moaning. Sir, please help me because I can' t stand this pain. What is true is that I never fell into despair. I never let myself be dragged away by the pain,
I mean, I didn' t let the pain take over. I was aware that it was a stretch of storm in my life, that I had to pass it. I didn' t know why or why, but it had to be passed. And that' s what I did then. Me. For me faith is my anchor, my anchor, my support, which has allowed me to get here and over the years discover that who could help other people who were going through the mourning, but someone who has gone through it, who is fine, who has regained hope, who has projects that
I am happy with. I mean, I' ve forgotten David. David is never the engine of this, for I would not have created this if David had not died. But I' m fine, but I have illusions and I' m able to have a good time and enjoy life. And this I admit breaks the taboo or the idea that it circulates around that if a mother has lost a child, she can never be happy again, because I do not agree. I' m happy. I feel full, I ' m excited about a lot of things. I' m still excited about
a lot of things in life. I think there are still many adventures to live, but I have had to relearn to live without David, whom one day I will see again hear how beautiful all these reflections, besides this testimonial experience and what we have spoken is magnificent. I think it is doing a lot of good to many people who have lived it, who are living it or who have friends or family in the area of influence. And this is
balsamic. And it also guides and helps. And for that very reason the Evangelical Alliance has organized a workshop on Saturday, April 29, which can be by zoo, not for the people who want to follow it. How to create a grieving aid group, right, tell us a little bit. This yes, well, for a while now, well, I don' t know if our listeners know him, but you do, Marcos Zapata, who is the president of the Evangelical Alliance, proposed to me the idea of creating
groups to prevent suicide and accompany and help the mourning? Why with the idea of forming, informing, teaching, bringing light to the churches, Spanish speaking with the aim of forming, because there is a lot of ignorance right within the churches in relation to mourning, in relation to suicide. Many leaders may
not know how to deal with all these things. So, well, we have created this group in which they are part of different people, among them, so, to see that I' m going to tie up here, is Charo López Pareja, who is a cop, a police girl, and who also created the association Vence that is an association for prevention and help victims, relatives, victims of which have died by suicide. Then there is Hans claus Ewen, who is a German shepherd, as he says a German shepherd
who does not bite. In addition, he has written several books about grief, Yes, very good. And then there' s conchi González, who ' s in Galicia and she' s a psychologist, she' s frames and there' s me. So, what we' re doing periodically every good x months. We meet regularly every month. And the idea is to teach, teach, teach about different things. We did some workshops recently on the accompaniment in the mourning and charo God on the prevention of suicide. And
now this is what he' s trying to teach. The aim is to teach people to create mourning support groups within churches, who may be trained to do so. So, we' re going to teach you how to create a grief aid group, which is a grief help group? How should it work, how should it work or how should it work? Give some brushstrokes so that they begin to see people, specialized groups within churches that can be dedicated, I do not tell you in exclusivity, but that it is another
tool for ecclesiastical or ecclesiastical within churches. So, April 29th, as you
00 p m through a link that I guess you ' ll spend later. No yes, yes, I' m already climbing it to the wall, to the walls of Facebook and Instagram, to both, then nothing. People just have to sign up. It' s not free, because Marcos has come to the conclusion that free things a lot of people sign up and then they don' t go. No. So you already know that creating these events is not the same platform for a hundred as
for five hundred, as for a thousand people. Then it is put as a donation five euros for the person who pays it, because it says hears, because this interests me. I want to do it. Then the organizer, Carlos Fumero, already knows. Well, we' re going to create a platform, they' ve signed up, they' ve written a hundred or two hundred, so let' s see how we do it. Not magnificent, magnificent, done, this is priceless. I' d tell you
yes, that' s right here. I think it' s interesting to keep on training and learning and being in order or knowing what' s happening in the world and that we' re people who have some training for different things. I think it' s important that there are people within the churches
who specialize in something. I always say ah forgive, no, no, no, go ahead, I believe you I always say that when a person I have a vision of the Church as a hospital, as a place where people arrive with a series of ailments apart from their desire to follow Jesus.
But we all come with backpacks. So, if you notice, I don ' t know if you' ve had to go to the E R, I hope not, but I, with six children, imagine the times I ' ve gone to the E R. So we all know that when we get to the E R, the first thing they do is a triage.
No, then, first they take you to a little room where there' s a nurse, where she asks you a series of things and finds out what your discomfort is, what your pain is, and then they already refer you to a heart specialist or a trauma, everything or whatever, not then I think that in the churches it would be good if there was something like
a kind of triage. When a newly converted person arrives, let' s see what backpack this person brings, where it comes from, because if not, if you notice, I know we' re drifting, but there are people who have been in the Church for years and years and carry the same backpack. Yes, ma' am, because maybe it hasn' t been
figured out, not what it is you' re carrying. And I' m telling you this because I have psychologist friends who have told me that many times it comes to someone with a series of problems and they start throwing and it' s a poorly crafted duel. When they were little, Grandma died, they pulled her out of the way. She never saw Granny again, no one said anything to her, she took away in silence and was traumatized. Or what used to be said was that the children were not taken to
the cemetery or taken away because the children had to be taken out. In the midst of all this, I believe that children have to live naturally. What' s happening. Death is part of life and as soon as you see it more naturally, you will be able to live it. And tomorrow, if you have to go through a duel, you' ll be more prepared. No doubt. It' s certainly not very interesting what you' re saying. It' s true that you don' t. And the
workshop comes to the hair for it' s a formidable tool. We are seeing, for example, suicide assistance also to accompany this is another chapter we want to help people. We' ve got it in our DNA. It is our vocation to accompany people in their pain and to know how to give them some tools or answers in addition to the intelligent company. I said no and I was thinking. Finally, already on the subject of everything we' ve talked about during the pandemic, people who couldn' t process the mourning
because they lost their loved ones and couldn' t even see them. But a lot, there were hundreds and thousands of people who could not say goodbye to their spouse, their son, their grandfather, their mother, their father. Well, a tragedy that was a national tragedy, really, totally. In fact, I don' t know if you know Julio that I believe in grief relief groups. I until then my grief relief groups were face- to- face. In my ibiza a beautiful living room with my candles aromatized
that if the music is in the soft. That is, because it was very important to me, because I continue to give it to the embrace of the Presence. But all of a sudden, this is over. Then we had to look for an alternative and I began to receive requests for help to the duel from places that you can least imagine, from the Argentine pampa,
from Bolivia, from Lima, from different places in the world. People were asking me, but you guys have groups online and I said no. I ' d say no. Me. I don' t know how it' s done until I learned when I started seeing so much demand. And that ' s what I found. A lot of people who maybe, because they haven' t seen the family in months. Suddenly they tell him the father,
they take him to the hospital, they die in the hospital. They don' t even know if the boxes that gave them mortuary were their relative inside or the covid thing It was terrible, terrible, terrible, because, as you well said, performing the grieving tasks is fundamental and one of them is the ceremonies. The ceremonies help to put a point and end, the encounter with relatives, with friends, to bury the person who has died, to fire them to receive the hugs of one and the other. Sure,
when does this go away? When this disappears, of course people stay? It was very painful. But then they started creating groups. He came out of the tzoom so people could see each other, even if it was through the screen, they could create some sort of farewell ceremony. But, thank God, that' s already happened. But we keep the zum that'
s wonderful. Yes, yes, yes and good And by the way, on the 29th of April we go in addition to our listeners, on the page of the Evangelical Alliance entered the ueblant and there are all the details. Also, on my radio wave page, on the page of the Spanish Evangelical Alliance, you see all the details of the day. That how to access and everything accurate and understand is very simple. You' ll have to fill
out a form and it' s already there. Then on the 29th, which is a Saturday, we will connect at five o' clock in the afternoon and then we will tell a little bit how to create this group. Then there will be a round table. It' s very interesting. The truth is that the other one we did the previous one had a lot, very good acceptance. There were a lot of people connected. And good for what they tell us, because then they hang in the Evangelical Alliance, they
hang articles. And I think it' s a way, like you said, of learning about the things we' re needing. Not without a doubt. No doubt listen, Gina, it' s been a great pleasure to be with you again. I also remember being good at many experiences we have experienced. Radio you are a radio woman of the medium too, but the year that you were in Barcelona, already with the program and well, with
two programs also very singular, very relaxed. Uh, yeah, I missed you so much when you left that well, I had a good time. Thanks for giving me this window, this opportunity, because I had a great time. You remember what Julio was called. Yeah, well, one is saying goodbye and the other is good. The show you were doing was this one I can' t believe. I can' t believe it. That ' s true, but besides, it was very original things that were being
dealt with. It was the idea, not to rescue things that happen in the world you say. I can' t believe people put their faith maybe in bottles of bottled water that I know is going to do, I don ' t remember anymore, but the truth is I had a good time, all right, all right. You have an extraordinary station and there we go well, as I send you a very affectionate hug and a greeting towards July and at any moment we can see ourselves until soon gins, but until soon
chao chao. Thank God, I can, too. The greatest pain occurs when the most we want the pain or the greatest comes to us as a blow to the heart without warning today that we are no longer there, today that I have this pain and feel a great void and I can not fill today that is no longer this only remains in the moments that gives the lived to travel. He never dies when he leaves, he just dies You just want to forget. Now you' re everywhere you' re part of my
life. From where you are and to heal my wounds, never die who goes only die you want to forget? Today I feel you everywhere, in a gasta, in a burning flame you are my angel you wink at me. Never dies who leaves love never ends. Grievous pain can sustain us and you are not reminding anyone of the greatest pain. Only time takes it away, although a moment today that is no longer having this pain and being great emptiness, I cannot fill today that it is no longer only left in the
moments that give the lived rough age. Who ever dies, who just dies,
who forgets? Now you are everywhere pathetic beings of my life, from where you are dry, my wounds, never dies, that you leave only dies what you forget today saying everywhere in a mestá in a burning flame you are my angel you guide me. Never die who goes love, never, nothing, Never finish my project study in the United States and teach them how to play football They are really Emilio and Raúl and one of them has schizophrenia, but their dreams, like those of anyone else, have no limits.
Let' s not put them on us. Integration is always the best response for the social inclusion of people with mental health problems, Ministry of Health, Social Services of Equality, Government of Spain. I' m up to it. I' ve got two sorroco left They won' t sneeze at the bartender I don' t panic between the containers. We can have a new life or the cereal house you' re right. We can be useful and do not recycle with forty plastic bottles. If you make a lining for the
or libri say yes and this stem we will do. What a quaqui bike and give a new life to the containers. Put them in their container and take care of the environment. How much to give a new life packaging recycles San Marcos and COHENMBS communities. Never leave me alone in the bathtub or places with water. Don' t let them emit luis fingers on a plug. Don' t leave me at the age of an open window. I told to my tosic substances, to micamientos, you already let me swallow the small
pieces of toys. If you neglect your eyes, you can be dangerous to your children. Don' t neglect to avoid accidents. For what you want most Ministry of Health and I consume a government of Spain or you travel on the train of life and we have arrived as well as the one that does intentionally want the thing to Dr Rock' s medical consultation. There are the different allergies and their possible treatments for them. The other rock is going to
help us a little bit figure out the primary reasons for allergies. Come on, Dr Rocca, you wanted a friend Hi, Julio. Allergies are expected. There is a certain expectation that they may be somewhat of a source of anger. Right. The truth is, we' re already seeing and treating patients. They are consulted for this reason, because, for example, an
allergy to our listeners is a reaction of our immune system. Those who suffer from it toward something that does not bother most other people, but those who have allergies are often sensitive to more than one thing. For example, the substances that usually cause reactions are pollen, dust removals, mold spores, animal dandruff, certain foods, insect bites, medicines that can also cause serious allergies. The truth is our immune system, of course this cannot be predicted to
have a true allergy at any time. The truth is that it is not a question that, as doctors ask ourselves very often, it is not why in recent decades we have seen so dramatically increase the number of allergic to see shame, there always were, but not in the volume in which we have
been living and searched and searched and there are some answers. We know that, apart from the existence of all these allergens, dandruff, animals, mites that are in our rooms, our beds, our sofas, in addition to the pollens, there must be something else that is the real cause for some people to develop an energy that others do not develop. And some answers have
been shown. One of them is that it seems that there are molecules in the air in suspension coming from the combustion of the engines tene and those substances, because they are going to terarmamunitarian, in such a way that we have greater ease to develop an allergy, a legia always has to be there a protein, a protein that is strange in our organism. And when I come into contact with this protein, then there' s a reaction. But it
is not a moderate reaction, but a tremendously exaggerated relationship. It can even become dependent on intensity. It can be such. In fact, unfortunately, I do not know if you will remember from a few years ago here in the Port of Barcelona, that a ship loaded with soy arrived. Yes, and it did not happen was tremendous, because there was, indeed, a tremendous problem the leaves, not of the elements also frequent. As for his polvito, it is that looses that it can cause, because great poems of
allergy. But here, let' s say, in our area, in our territory, we have two large groups that is that of the sacks and that is not springtime, it is not related to seasonality, but we are seeing all year round and that of the pollens, which is so, it is seasonal and that is now at its peak and surely we have it for a long time or just, so you used to comment on the great amount of rain and also the tons and tons that are in suspension of pollens in
the atmosphere. For example, what you have said about diesel bro uncle for engines ten is already being warned and, in fact, there are already big brands, not only that they are decreasing, but that they are stopping making engines ten l That is, it is expected that in order to remember which year no longer exists, tenel cars are no longer manufactured, everything is gasoline, pure. It' s not like we' re turning our planet into
some kind of latrine. The polluted seas. Plastics are everywhere, even in the pantas of marines, in the atmosphere molecules, well, some are natural and have to be there because it is their place, and there is a purpose. We are the pollens, but then the men add there a lofadal
of strange molecules because of fossil fuels and other substances. Some of them are perhaps less concentrated and, therefore, perhaps less motivated, but others are not, and one of them sees the products that eliminate the combustion of gazo engines. S So, this is no longer a problem that is known now.
We have been in the past for years, and we know whether to get into chemistry, the chemical route, because to say that this is a problem that has been known for years and that we had to give a solution and finally goodbye. Thank you, because it seems that the top ten, ten
have their days numbered and that this we suppose could improve. It should also improve the volume of allergic people and other respiratory problems that we find all year round, because not only will combustion generate a harmful contamination that will cause gers, but it will generate a contamination that will cause multitude and multitude of respiratory pathologies. Because of this contamination, respiratory allergies hope, especially allergies that have
to do with asthma. This is delicate, because there are cases that can become highly sensitive and seriously endanger people' s health. With the asthma issue. There are people who suffer to a superlative degree. Yes, and also that is to say that there are cases in which they are more serious, because there are people who good at coming into contact with an allergen, will segregate greater volume of mucus, block, there will be basis of sneezing respiratory
ditty. But there' s a kind of percentage of patients that are for me, the believers and the most at risk. But what they do is a bronchial spasm, the bronque, when it comes into contact with the geno, contracts that part of hypertrophy muscles contract preventing the passage of air and clear that of tremendous consequences. Well, even as you said quite rightly they can
carry and, by deracially we' ve lived it. They can lead the patient to death in case the doctor is not there at that time, it takes time to consult, sometimes the family' s little success has to be moved. How to react, especially if it occurs in rural areas now early in the morning, that is, complications. There' s no emergency service 24 hours, there' s no hospital nearby. Well, unfortunately we have experienced this situation and the patient has become critical. Or it' s for
terminal. It' s very serious. Very serious. Sure, sure, sure, treatments and therapies. In addition to nasal sprays, antistamines and anti - allergic injections, there is also the issue of vaccines to assess the possibilities of detecting the causative agent. Not true. The issue of vaccines. The vaccine you already know that means that the treatment is punctured, an intermuscular sucultary whatever, but punctured and this can sometimes reinforce new problems. You have to
be very careful. Some of us prefer, I unquestionably prefer oral v has the great advantage that the organism will take what it needs and what the latrine will not discard and we will have far fewer problems, much less complications. These laboratories care about and make study, research and market vaccines. And this kind of pathway we call vaccines, we call it isotherapy. It would be
the same thing that causes the disease. We use it as a medicine, because there are very prestigious laboratories and that their products really work wonderfully well. Even some very frequent allergies already have classified small bottles, type vejiguita of plastic, because, with the monodoses of this vaccine from sotherapy to decensitize the patient. The problem we also live in is that, as we are immersed in this valley of pollution, because sometimes the patient heals an allergy and develops a
new one. This I can see with relative frequency. When a patient has given in a treatment, it has been positive, beneficial, the patient has improved dramatically, it has even healed and after x years it reappears with alertness, because already one suspects and many times when we repeat the tests of allergy, we discover, therefore, a new cause. And the truth is that this is quite, quite common with pollens, with food, it' s quite complex. It' s a very exciting subject, but it' s
quite complex. Yes, it has a very particular complexity. The other rock before we say goodbye. There' s an allergy. There' s an allergy, an answer to this big question. There' s an allergy. In recent times, it wasn' t that much. I' m saying not to remember them in the past either. In the past there were things, for that is good, that we have improved a lot and that are and better that they have disappeared. But there are other things that weren'
t and there was something in the environment in the past. I' m not talking about repression of religion, which there was also a lot of it, but there was a sense of respect. Let us call the figure of that God who somehow did not know where he was at all right, but who had created us. We' ve become allergic. Our society has become allergic, authentically allergic, to contact with God, to the search for that God that we so much need truth, the truth that you are bringing all
reason to chastity, to which society has a good part. He seems to have an alert. One of them is the word God. Another allergy is the word Church, to which one speaks of Church, God, Gospel, Evangelical, Christianity, etcetera. Well, we see that there is in some of our neighbors, in the people with whom we relate some kind of tartullidos.
There is an allergy red because, well, what happens is that when we analyze and when we speak in depth and there are people who are very that, not and good, because they have an attitude to life, to the universe. On the other hand, you have others that not others, because you will really reason some of them because being at an intermediate point diagnosticism of difficulty in accepting, but there are some that do. So, when we go to the cause, no, I' ve wondered good, why.
Why people, traditionally human beings. Since prehistory we know that the human being has sought God through religion. Religion, for it has that purpose.
So when the human being has sought God, especially in Christialism, we know that God comes to pass, but in all cultures, all over the world, from history, we see that there is this search for the spiritual and suddenly it is like that, because you general said it very acesarously, a kind of allergy And of course, then one has to realize the ones of the one who lives. The sequence is the one we live with. It
is a society that has in Jewish Christian principles, especially Christians. Now the Jewish, it' s there at the root, but we don' t see it so much anymore, we don' t perceive it so much anymore, but the Christian. And then people often have no problems with God, but with Christians. There' s one that brings her in, and there
' s the secret. Then I always tell people we share. The faith is that the Christian must live, live in the city, he must try to be of an extraordinarily formal conduct, because that pleases God and, besides that, it is light to the world. Look at yesterday, at the Bible study, at the Church, with the brothers of Martorel we were commenting on the well- known texts of you are the salt of the world. And the Lord Jesus does not say you have the salt of the world,
but you are. And then he says he also speaks of the light and also says that he is the light of the world and that we are the light of the world. There is there a reflection of its holiness and its characteristics. But sometimes we' ve wanted Jew we do it so poorly? We do it so poorly that then people do not see in many Christians or in many pseudo- Christians what they should see. Then we blame God for
everything. God is like this since Adam and Eve sinned. You know, Adam blamed the woman, the woman of the foot, and the serpent had to shut up. He was guilty, but the jeds were guilty. And that' s where we all go. Many times we blame God for our misfortunes, for our insanity, for the misfortunes for which we are responsible and mothered the name of God. People curse God' s name when it goes wrong, but they don' t remember God when it' s right.
It' s a society full of contractions, so I think we can heal from that ally. Goodbye is the allergy to Christianity and it is knowing him personally. God can be known personally. Moreover, although he is the highest character in history, neither kings nor anyone is taller than God, but God is in the position of humility, in the stubbornness of Christ and is ready to receive us all right now, each of us, and he has the answer. He is the answer, because small saves of the equation of this
world to the person of Christ, the one who remains nothing. This is
devastation, moral devastation, devastation in every way. And well, he is the Creator God, he knows our nature and he has so much compassion for us that we still often feel his caress, in the midst of our ignorance, in the midst of our evil to do, in the midst of our failures, that we all dare already myself, but he and, being there to leave like the eternal rock of the centuries that we can trust, because he has overcome, we will overcome so it is, dear friend, I
believe it is a masterful conclusion to take into account that counterpoint of something that seems also vital to the health of the soul and to the destiny of the human being here and now, because purgatory does not exist. This, yes, which is a true invention, is an invention of the Middle Ages, nonexistent in the Bible. Don' t say hello to that or out of amazement. Well Dr Roca, dear friend, we are satisfied with what you have told us to take into account some things yes and, above all to
go to consult if necessary, welcome. Thank you well, thank you, a hug that gramidista so goodbye the train of life you when you find the meshes with his sword for you borders, you contiguously beat flagbantar to tusca, you conduct faint with his spread for your grari france psychotista you will conquer flag
bantara. Not without pain, no cattle. Everything costs a value for which you have to fight, even though you stumble that it would matter to win, if it was so easy, to fight the goal and at the end that you will know more if I don' t know, sometimes you have to be bumping in order to be able. Thank you and reach a little maturity, because there would be no way to know how to twirl what will come. The pain in your times can be so cruel but God won'
t let you stay ah any longer. You don' t want to go through difficulty, but sometimes it boils to awaken the gift inside it goes and get out of the comfort that you will read the place and to the goal confirm it to advance. If you are Sometimes you have to be shaken up to move, grow and reach a little more fearlessness, because glory would be a way to handle what will happen The pain can be so hard and so cruel, but God won' t let us stay there any longer in power
that we can bear. If you can create, anything is possible. If you can create, confess that it is, even if you can' t see. If you can believe, no matter what miracle it is it has to do according to its will it is to make clear victory, not fear. If you can believe this is what Luis, Juanjo' s friend, said to prevent him from abusing his partner. When there' s abuse in a couple, it' s not just couple stuff. Don' t allow gender- based violence. Call zero sixteen There' s an exit from the
Ministry of Health, Social Services and Equality. Government of Spain prohibited tweeting while with your I have forbidden chatting with your scepter and villa you do in eulogy of the dangers are so obvious that it is not a matter of prohibition. It' s a matter of common sense, because the smarter our phones are, the stupider the deaths they cause behind the wheel. Ninety- nine percent of your attention isn' t enough. Directorate- General for Traffic, Ministry
of the Interior, Government of Spain. If you have drinking problems and you see that you just can' t solve them, maybe we can help you. Groups of anonymous alcoholics are the solution for millions of people around the world. Call us on the phone nine, three, three, seventeen, seventy - seven, seventy- seven, the train of life, an exciting journey along the paths of the heart, an unforgettable trip at the rhythm of trems.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, now, in a few moments we are already in zoom communication, but also audio for all our listeners of the modulated frequency in the different Spanish cities. Think that every week more than a hundred
major cities in Spain tune in to the train of life. Then I am sometimes in a city when I go from here, I imitate it since Thursdays leaves our hangar the train of life in march and on Friday Saturday I sometimes travel to different Spanish cities and go around, I go with some friend or some pastor who is taking me here and listen to the program. I tell you well, I' m glad that you can hear it and I hope
that the interviews are helpful and that they help, that they are. The purpose is for them to be a social help service as well as the one we have talked about. Well then, ladies and gentlemen, we already have our friend Alfonso closet there that we are going to go in with him to talk about the topic of the apostolic fathers, the first leaders of the church beyond the apostles who died. The last living apostle was John, who died
about ninety- eight, apparently for dating. He died in Ephesus after having also had a captivity on the island of Patmos. And, well, there are more things that are very interesting. We' re going to make some breaks because, obviously, the subject is immense and I' m going to welcome my good friend, the doctor, also historian and writer, Alfonso Ropero
good morning, Alfonso Hello, Good morning, Well, Alfonso. We could talk about a thousand themes, but the theme of parental patristics, what is patristic from the most popular point of view to situate our listeners a little bit? What is the patristic one that has to do with the origins? After the years of Jesus and the apostles in the world, when they all disappear, they are the ones who continue the work, the Christian work and how
this would be defined. Yes, patristic is a name given to an academic discipline that has at last the study of the more of the Church. Istristics within certain seminaries, for it studies or if it was important, the study of the church, understanding as the Father of the Church, the successors of the apostles. Once they are dead, the cane, the so- called
new testament, closes. But Christianity continued. After the new will. Works continued to be written, including some very famous ones that almost entered the canon, such as the Letters of Clement Romano or the Shepherd of Hermas. That ' s already part of that part or falls into the category of patristics. That and then were the names as well known as Jerome Agustín Gpona, for that is the subject given in certain academies at that period, to the study
not only of the life of his men, but of his works. Yes, because of course the ge was, for example, one of the writings, Pastor Armas, one of the most popular of the first after the apostolic era. True, exactly if it was the immediate writings. Let us say that patristics introduces us to what happened in the church after the death of the
apostles. He certainly didn' t disappear. The church has already been on earth for two thousand years and, moreover, interesting I know that in the evangelical world, although a fact that is true, the reform was the first that already in the sixteenth century, they put patristics as a subject in their studies, because sometimes it is thought that patristics is also spoken of as patrology. It belongs to a rightful defect which he believes is in the proper right
of the Catholic Church. But it' s not like that. Protestants, Luther as well as Calvin and other authors, including the Spanish evangelicals, such as Salamuel Villa, in their books, as well as returning to the sources, sought the Bible on the one hand, but also wanted this biblical teaching to be confirmed by the ancient authors, the so- called Fathers of the
Church. So, the Protestants of the sixteenth century, in order to say give a certain character of seriousness to what they bring of continuity of rupture. They have They were the first to create the professorship of patrology, that is, of study of the parents to show that they were rebels who were breaking the Church. They simply continued what they believed to be the best of the Church in the Bible and in the parents, the parents of the churches.
The characteristics, as you are saying, of the patristics of the initial Fathers of the post- Apostolic Church who pre- empt and defend Christian beliefs before the pagan dogs of the time, regard the faith as the only truth and knowledge, above all other knowledge and many more things that also have to do with the philosophy of the time. True, yes, it has to do
with philosophy and a fact for us to understand about the Christian faith. We have been Christians for many years and we have a great legacy of a great heritage. But there is a curious fact that can guide us, and that is that the Christian faith began as a translation movement that I mean by this and to the same, Lord Jesus Christ, does not follow the Old Testament to the letter. He clearly tells the men and women of his day and,
above all, the doctors and the scribes and the Pharisees. Have you heard that it was told to our fathers or elders, but I tell you then he says have you heard of the eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth? I say amaze the enemy who has your cheek to right and puts you on the left or the other way around. Then a rereading is
done. He after rhinestones the Old Testament in the light of what he considers to be the essence of God, who is God love, since they had derived that newer doctrine in Jesus Christ, God is love from the beginning. But the Pharisees had concentrated on the legislator God and had made a sort of
system of laws. I think there' s one. They codified six hundred, and I do not know how many laws they needed to be fulfilled to please God and Jesus Christ, for he understands that this is not the basis of the law, and that is why the law is summed up in only two laws. In six hundred and sixty- six thousand we go and say
that we love God and love the next for him. Then to the translation that he does And the Church will do the same when he reads the Old Testament and St Paul himself already begins with that spiritual way of understanding it. Sarah, Abraham' s wife, is the symbol of the free Church and to give that she was the slave concubine. It was, for those who live under the law mean that they make a spiritual translation of the Old Testament.
They don' t take it to the letter. They take it in the light of the spirit of that letter, in the light of Jesus' teaching. And that' s why the apostles. This translation is produced and the parents of the church continue the same translation. In fact, we' re always translating. We say, we read the Bible and the Bible says well, the Bible says according to our preconceptions. We' re always doing a translation job. When we read an ancient and modern text, then the
Father of the Church what they do is complement or complete that process. And they make comments to the Old Testament, such as that stila still make Bible comments and apply those principles to the Old Testament. Christo told them that Moseser bears witness to me and that all scripture is a witness to Christ. Then
they read the entire Old Testament in the light of Christ. Do not read it in the light of the law, do not read it in the light of Israel, do not read it in the light of the kingdom, but of the kingdom which is manifested in the person of Christ. And they do the same with philosophy, as we have commented because George, certainly, the Church begins very soon in the Gentile or pagan world, because first, because the Jews persecute the early Christians, like all to that fact of the apostles
were dispersed. Stephen goes to Samaria and becomes Simon the Wizard, then to the Antioch and St Paul makes trips all over the world carrying the Gospel. But it also happens historically geographically, that the Jews rebel against Rome in the sixties and are totally destroyed by General Titus the Roman. And then they reveal themselves again in the year one hundred and thirty, and then, already when the Jewish state is totally destroyed and the Roman state even forbids the stay of
the Jews physically in Israel. And it means that the Jewish world was no longer the one who questioned the missionaries. Now it' s the pagan world they' re missioning to. But of course, the pagan world was followed by another book, Not followed by the Old Testament. They were followed by
their philosophers, by their myth, by their gods. Then they also make a translation of that philosophy and speak of the ci just as Paul says that the Jew is made to the Jew and Greek to the Greek the parents of the church, that period in which Christianity becomes Greek to the Greek and shows that true philosophy, which at that time, philosophy was the way of life that we still use today in colloquial language. We do not understand philosophy as
an academic discipline. I have these my philosophies directly my way of being, this is my way of life. This was how philosophy was understood in ancient times and why the philosophy of the Christian era was the most important and had the most to do with the Spanish. Seneca, who was Spanish Cordobés, was stoic philosophy, which was a way to behave in life, in the face of happiness, but also in the face of misfortune. The death of
a loved one a return from destiny that leads to ruin. How to deal with those situations that can destroy a person psychologically and physically That was called the end, I said tor and today we still say this we have to take it with philosophies, take it patiently, see it prologue against. So Christianity says this is Christianity, because Christianity, in this we all agree. It is neither a religion nor a philosophy. It' s a way to be a way, it' s a way to follow, as he says Jesucrista
seizes from me. We are simply apprentices of Jesus Christ in his way of life. He didn' t even bring theology. That we have done afterwards and is correct, but good is what Saint John showed us above all fourteen
six. I am the way, the truth and the life. Then Christianity translates these simple concepts of Jesus Christ, because he spoke with clarity for even the uneducated child, because they translate it into philosophical language and speak of our philosophy, because of course this anibujo has a philosophy of trust, that of hope, that of faith, that of love, charity, and mutual help, for all that I develop. That' s the patristic period that comes
to our day. Of course, when you talk about a kind of allergy to philosophy, which is also not good grecolatine or to which the mixture of those terms is pure ignorance. People, perhaps the one who reads and the day is there, know what they are talking about and those who do not hear it, because they misunderstand it. No. But, well, that note is very important, very timely. One of the first parents or followers.
Polycarp of Smyrna, according to the historical records of Irenaeus and Tertullian, Polycarp of Smyrna, was apparently one of the disciples of John the Apostle. And, well, there is also mercifully previously Irenaeus of León, Gregory of Nisa, John Chrysostom and Well, those are the first, basically between the
first century I II. Fundamentally we move on to the 3rd century And it is still clear here, we already enter into other Eusebius of Caesaria, Tertullian, Well, already the Great Augustine of Hippo, who is a man who marked school frame too and the conversion of many of these men we know is also very dramatic and very much like St Augustine' s call but as holy
as you and as I, no more and no less. But the truth is interesting because these men who exercised a social influence from the Christianization of the Empire, an imposing social influence, true, yes, yes, that aside, because yes, Augustine is already the one who really good of Augustine is born already in a period where the Church is legally recognized. Before St Augustine, the Church was considered an illegal religion because it did not worship the Emperor,
it did not burn incense in honour of Rome. They believed that if one lacked respect to the Emperor, he also annoyed the gods and could come. The misfortune, which more than one of the most influential was Origen who even the mother of one of the emperors at the time that the Church was
persecuted, sought counsel from him, sought the teaching. Origins, lived in Alexandria, which was like the Athens of the time that was in Egypt and was there there there were a large number of Christians and also Jews, that there is there born the so- called sectoakhinta, the Greek version of the old Testament made by Jews, and that the Church then used Christianity precisely because
of its way of being and living. He was very attracted to the attention of the pagans, although they also despised him, because he was a thriving movement that grew, aroused envy and suspicion, especially when someone wanted to speak
ill of someone, because they did not know to investigate reality. And there was talk that Christians participated in the Holy Supper by eating the body of Christ and drinking its blood and literally taking it and saying that Christians were anthropophages, that is, cannibals almost and that a series of stories and legends were created and that the clear people despised Christians, except when the people saw if these
people helped us, because in the church they not only testified. It is known that the Church of Rome, where Paul was also the apostle Peter and so many great Christians, she alone kept three thousand poor of the city than in which no one took care. The Church of Rome. It is known that there was a square of the foundlings, that is, the unwanted children, the way they had, apart from abortion, the unwanted ones, were
taken from Java in that square. There was like a kind of tumulus, a high place and then the one who wanted to go for those children either adopted them or employed them as slaves when they grew up or as gladiators Christians, knowing the sad fate of those children exposed there to what might happen to them. They were picked up to treat them as what they were or what they had to be worthy people, slaves or wrestlers in the circus. All
that. People saw it as humanity, but it cost time for all time. But they had that certain prestige of men who loved the world, but at the same time believed it to have been doctrine. It was dangerous and tertullian that you mentioned that he is the first Latin theologian, he created what Hispanic. He was from North Africa, he was and they spoke Latin as
being the language from which Spanish comes, Spanish. Then he was a great defender of the Christian faith in front of the judges, saying to value things as they were and disassemble slanders. Bullies didn' t pay much attention to him, though he didn' t die a martyr. He tried, but he didn' t. He was a lawyer, but he defended the faith. That is why it is a book of apologetics or apology quicir defense, defense Christianity. Yes, it was interesting all that Christian struggle to gain a
worthy place. The one he deserved was not a privilege, just as other religions were tolerated. They were to be tolerated and left at once the bull that they were cannibals or that they were going against the State, because it was believed that, since they did not burn incense in the altars, they
went against the State and I specifically said tertullian. We prayed for the Emperor, our best way of showing the fidelity of emperors we pray to God for the good of empire, we pray to God for the peace of the Empire, and that hurt them that they were unjustly criticized, because Christianity always St Paul says so in the Letter of the Romans, that we honor the authorities and those bi- Christianism has always done so. And that' s what
' s beautiful about this period, the period of the church fathers. It is how they try to manifest Christianity, which is peace and love in a hostile society. It took time, but they got it. It is also interesting to observe and because some magnify ignorance as if this were the vow of necessary humility, and it is with Tertullian eusebius of Caesarean section of his ecclesiastical
history. Well, there' s such an agustín of origin. Well, and there the list that adds up and continues even among them there are others that are authentic apologists intellectuals, but with a colossal intellectual formation. True, they are. In one of the earliest Christian intellectuals, it is Justino,
Justino, Justino Martís. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, he was a man who had been moving in the philosophical schools of the time, the stoic, the ticury and they all read and knew well the aristotelian platoon. But he came into contact with an old man, a Christian elder, and did not know at that time that he was a Christian. But they speak of the soul, they speak of destiny in the afterlife, and what
that man said to him he saw. He agreed that he became interested in the faith, became a Christian, and not only became a Christian, but
paid with his ruin for his life. From there I could find a way to save myself and give orchards to sufer by saying no, but I believe, but to that of respect I could have looked for the tricks to save the peronol life when they told him to deny the Christian name, which was the way the judges had to prove that they were Christians, because a true Christian did not deny his lord went to the Church, but they were not
Christians, because they refused because they were going to attend or because they received help. The true Christian when faced with that option of release, deaths for they said if the renegade freedom of my Christ prefers death. And that' s what Justino did, and then right away he saw a pantheon that in the faraway would be the tainting of the holster stain, because Justino had already
done it. In Rome he founded a school of philosophy, but Christian philosophy, what he said before and that at that time philosophy and theology were almost united, because it had to do with life, the way of life. Well, I' ll pantenum and then it comes in graciously and then seeing
origins. They were three scholars and at the same time attracted many people who in the anguish of the world and who did not see an answer in pagan gods, in polytheism, in those gods that sometimes he who has seen in that it is seen in film odyssey, for gods who are jealous commit adultery
among themselves, because the truth was that they were not exemplary. And the Christian god, of course, had nothing to do with it and they were amazed by that Christian God that they preached but at the same time it is known that the same gracious one that still persists his very thick books had a tremendous culture of philosophy, of Aristotle' s platoon. Now, why Christians in the evangelical world have suspicions or sometimes feel a sort of repulsion or rejection
of philosophy. Because, of course, as in politics there are good politicians, bad politicians and in theology there are fabulous c and there are other Christians who are not ashamed to call themselves Christian philosophy. There was what Paul calls false lanosis philosophy. Paul calls it falsenoses, and Paul says it was these
people, the Greeks themselves criticized them. They were people who made philosophies to make money, which was to win lawsuits were because philosophy was linked to oratory and in trials, because the one who had the best oratory at the best gold peak could win or lose the case of his client. And there were many philosophers who lived not looking for the truth, but the way to make the black or white, said to use words or language to transmute or transform
the sense of things. And that' s what Christian critiques and it' s called philosophy or whatever it is. But the Bible does not condemn true philosophy, but that false philosophy that they were traveling people who, let us say, lived selling their knowledge, but the true philosopher did not go around selling his knowledge. To disguise the lie. They had their schools and people
chose them because they saw in them serious, honest, responsible people. And so Christians also opened schools and received many students because they saw in them that seriousness and honesty that Paul says. We can do nothing against the truth, but with the truth. The Christian has always gone with the truth of the part and philosophy in his popular senses, love of truth, love of wisdom. The opposite. That' s right, either I cheat or whatever we
call it, it' s interesting, it' s really recommendable. That is why you have collegiate and directed a series of patristics in clie and you have also written some of those works to us. Well, we wanted to initiate the evangelical reader in this inheritance, because it is an inheritance the books of the church fathers, and we started with the first ones, who are
called apostolic fathers. The Apostolic Fathers described them this way because they had known some apostle, for example, you mentioned him to Polycarp, they had known John. Then they belong to the Apostolic, Apostolic, Apostolic period. Friday after they are already disciples of these apostles, like this Tullian and as it
is the Itineus himself, he did not know the apostles. Then we have published to the Apostolic Fathers in a volume also the works of mentioned Irenaeus, Clement, Alexandria, Origen, Augustine, Tertullian, not all the complete works are we could draw out hundred and so many volumes. We got what we first called him the best thing we' ve put in because it' s the second edition. Thank God it was exhausted, that is, it had
a good reception and we call essential writings. Their essential writings are many more. It doesn' t mean they' re the best. They are the most basic or what best introduces us into your thinking. And, well, I think there is a species today that observes an interest in knowing these men, because of course it is that if not the Church is seen in a problem. It seems that the Church begins with us from which, from the
New Testament to the present Church, there has been a vacuum. And that is not possible, of course, because Jesus Christ, in his resurrection said I am with you every day until the end of the world and every day is century II. And so and so, when he says that the Church is founded on the rock, which is Christ, which is to them the rock of salvation, says the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
If we think, as there are many evangelicals who believe, that after the death of the last of the apostles, the Church gave as a sort of
decay and apostasy, then Jesus Christ fails his word. If we believe that there has been an apostasy until Luther' s time or even us those thousand years, Christ was not present or was where he was, where is his word that the gates of hell would not prevail against the rock, for he was there in that, he was in Clemente, he was in origin, he was in Tertullian and so many foot believers have written nothing, but they
did something very beautiful. When Rome falls, that is, when the Church is already affected by the empire, we have all heard of the barbarians of cara, of the Huns, of the eggs, of the same ones in Spain that came the Visigoth odolus. Then those people were people used to fighting and their ideal was the combat and Christianity that made against them for Christianity amazingly
domestic. Yes, great lords, they came the first thing they were to steal in the churches, because there is the chalice that was used to take it, the wine of representing the blood of Christ was usually of clear gold
that we were valuable and they killed or plundered. And yet, those men or women who no longer remember his name, who also died at the hands of the invasions in the long run conquered that empire and one of the most violent peoples that Europe suffered were the Vikings or what were called the men of the North, who were razing came to Spain, well, they arrived to Seville, when the Guadalquivir Guadalquivir is navigable and in small boat and there was
the Church managed to convert these men, whose gods of Odin, the tor that make films of this today the round with his hammer that kills a thousand
characters of a blow the Church or those people of that time. I' m talking about the year eight hundred nine hundred managed to tame these peoples, which was not easy to us in the twentieth century And until we leave our habits, even if we become Christians, we still maintain that St Paul calls the old man, for they fought a very strong old man, because he was a very accustomed man to war. And Christianity is peace. Christianity is
concord, because all this was achieved by the Church. Not we have been getting him churches century after century. I have said those examples, which are the most dramatic, but it happened throughout history. The human being has always been violent to the idea is today we have a war here on our pigs and threaten us even with atomic bombs. At that time they were also always warring and zero before reminds us of the books of cavalry. The cavalry books
were novels, but they were Christian novels. Sometimes we didn' t think of that, because it was dealing with those soldiers who did what we saw on television there in Ukraine and other countries, looting, torturing and raping. And the ideal knight for Don Quixote, that the defense of women, the defense of the Maiden and the keeping of her word, the not stealing the contentment of his good deeds, was a way of civilizing those who lived as
mercenaries. And that was also a church product. Then, it is very nice to think if we follow the word of God we are Christian, but we have a past and a few brothers, as the Letter to the Hebrews says, for a cloud of witnesses we can feel very proud of, because
they performed great miracles throughout history, a miracle of conversions. Yes, magnificent explanation Alfonso to put us in perspective, because I remember, perhaps in a personal anecdote, when I became, I could read bad at little, because it was very sick and I went very little to school from eight to twelve years old, and I began to read the new will and I remember them
and read it, I slowly read it the back had black. And then I loved myself already when I joined the military at the age of sixteen, at the age of twenty. I wanted to join the culture late. Okay. I made a whole process possible until I was twenty- five years old at the University, which was already a sprint. But I began to read from everything I read, everything to the Ley, Mars, Lenina, Trowskia, mause Toon, the authors, Saltrea, all those of the time Kamus,
all of Kiski, obviously, Nix, etcetera, etcetera. But I began to read the history of Christianity and my faith strengthened the first history of Christianity. Then I read others. When I read that, I was already a fervent believer. I thank God, but I was greatly strengthened by knowing
the history of Christianity. He reaffirmed to me to see continuity, as you have said, from the first century, second, third, fourth, until the first millennium, then until the Protestant reformation and everything and to see the variables that have existed in history. I was strengthened and reaffirmed and I said this church the gates of hell have not prevailed against the church in 2, 000 years. And then you have to know how to interpret the story.
So it' s true. I highly recommend reading to the church parents. Plus a lot of your thinking. It illustrates us, enriches us time practices that are some were of faith principles so primary, but so genuine that you say. Sometimes it is necessary to return some of these things to be more genuine, more direct, not mediated by so many liturgies and that we Protestants have also acquired them. Anyway, but the truth is, it' s very interesting. That' s why the reference to Clie' s books is
very interesting. And we come to the subject of heresies. Well, from scripturalism, docentism, agnosticism, Montanism and both adoptionism and archaeism. Well, there are all Nicolaism, Martianism, Modalism, Manichaeism or Donatism, etcetera. Arianism, especially Arianism, very interesting, because Spain was arian for a time with the Visigoths in power, who succumbed to Christian culture, because they became.
That' s what you were saying, apolinarism, nestorianism, pelagianism, the subject that is also very interesting in monophysicism, etcetera, monothelism, etcetera, etcetera. So there is to give and give, but above all arianism. Yes, that was a controversy that was very much in battle for a long time. True, it was a hard battle in many years, because Christianity proclaims itself as a monotheistic faith, a single God, but at the same time that this God is a father, a son and a holy spirit,
how that is clarified. The Arians denied the trinity, the Orthodox for calling it that or the great Church. Most believed without knowing is the explanation that there is only one God who is the father, but that Jesus Christ was not only a superior man chosen by the Father, distinguished with a second God. He was God himself and then the Holy Spirit also admitted. They recognized him as a personality. It was not an influence, it was a
living being that made the Church gain strength, etcetera. And in those years that they lacked terminology to get to explain in a way, let' s say logically the possibility of there being a god and at the same time three people and not for that being a tritheism three gods that still continues to to
tory. Even in the evangelical world there are churches called Jesus alone, that is, they do not believe that in the Trinity or sects such as Jehovah ’ s Witnesses or other groups that deny trinity because they do not fit in
their heads. Well, the Church had to deal with these heresies, not only the Rianas, but many similar ones, because the subject was difficult and coming to a description I think simple, but very beautiful, and but they had to resort to a language that does not appear clear in the Bible.
The Bible mentions the father, son, and holy spirit, but without giving it terms, Christianity had to resort to Greek terms as substance, essence, hypostasis, and a person who is one God, but three different persons. Substance or hypostasis is the same in all three, but there is a distinction, what is called a dynamic monotheism, that God is communion relations, the father in general, son, from eternity beginning the son to be has always
been the son and the holy spirit is also sent by both. Then you have to develop these ideas of hypostasis, of what you call the same essence homosis. And it wasn' t easy. It wasn' t easy. Many councils were needed. Today we assume trinity almost by faith rarely a foot
believer in our church. Even pastors can give very correct definitions, because it is complicated, as I did not study it myself in my pastor, in whom I was baptized precisely at the age that you became equal to seventeen, I became converted and at eighteen I was baptized because I had doubts whether to be baptized into an adult or not. But whatever it was, that man explained to me. Today I understand it in its trinity ways in a heretical
way, they were as in what is called fashionism. God, father. It is the God who creates the world, but the God who goes well to redeem us then becomes a son, becomes flesh and redeems us, that is, takes the form of the son And as the now risen son lives within us, the same God lives as a spirit in three ways, in three ways. That' s wrong. For him he convinced him because he could not otherwise understand how to respect the oneness of one God. But that
' s not the real way. We' re not going to clear it up today. But the idea is this so basic essence, one God in three different people and that people are not manifestations, they are ways of being, that shows us in front of that Judaism in an isolated God it costs us that it does not show that God is community, that that involvement is very important for human life, that we are God relationship. It is also a relationship or in front of the Muslim, where it is also what is
called a strict monotheism, Christianity is a dynamic monotheism. Strict monotheism is one that knows only one will and there is no dynamism in it. In the Christian case, we believe that our God is a god where there is inner communion, and that makes many things clear to us. God did not need man to know what love is, because he loved one another in that personal variety, which is in him that are mysteries that do not surpass his way
of understanding. This God creates us by pure grace, because he wants to love us, because he wants to love him, not because he needs our love, not because he needs our praise, because he, like Jesus on earth, says he is pleased with the father and in the glory of the father he always had. God has always lived in a glory, communion, communication, eternal love among himself. It is the way that theology has to explain that Christian God, which has nothing to do with these extreme or strict
monotheisms, Judaism or Islamism. Although Judaism was already opening up and speaking in the book of proverbs of Wisdom, through which God created the world. And so the Gospel of John says that Christ is wisdom, that is, the wolf, is the verb by which everything has been created. He was with God and he was God. In other words, there has been a process of Christian doctrine. It did not fall from heaven, it was a reflection or, as I mentioned earlier, it is a process of translation of the
experience of Christ. They experienced Christ not only with a healer, not just as a messiah. He was the one who did it. Prophecies, not just as a kind of privileged. God experienced it as something that exceeded them. And so they gave him the title of the lord, the title given to Jave in the LORD, in the old Testament, because they believed that he was in Christ, as he will then say in the Pauline letters and in him dwells the fullness of deity. They couldn' t explain it any
other way. He wasn' t a man, he was God himself. And that, of course. It must be translated into a language that sheds light on the apparent contradictions in which language can resort to explain, to explain the mystery of God. What an interesting explanation, ladies and gentlemen, and in such a didactic way for all our listeners in the voice of Alfonso Ropero
and I tell you, obviously, look at the Bible. The new testament implicitly manifests the deity of Christ and also explicitly, but very implicitly, conclusively, as John' s theological preamble in his first verses. In the beginning it was the verb he was and he was condid. The verb was God. And then also, as Jo' s witnesses have sometimes said, it was a God no, because the indeterminate article does not exist, that is,
it was a forgery of but many more interesting things. And then he, that fashionism, has also wanted to fight the otri the ternity and so many others. But it is true, and there I do see a point, it is God' s revelation to the believer the believer and we dare to say it is an authentic revelation, to understand the incomprehensible by the grace of God, that God is community, father, son and espe three distinct persons and one true God, as he says, the apostolic creed is a
definition more or less, as approximate as possible. Right. That' s right and here we have and I want to recommend you look at this and I have here before me all the books that Alfonso wardrobe has collegiate are published in clie and directly his own hand, the whole collection of apostolic fathers, which is sensational. I recommend it entirely from both Justin Martyr and so many
others who appear and the general the first. And then, obviously, there are also not only books as an introduction to philosophy, philosophy and Christianity. Speaking of this the apostolic fathers, also stories of monothematics, of origins Augustine
Lipona, Tertullian, John Chrysostom and so many others. Justin Martyr, who we have talked about, but also martyrs and persecutors is another fantastic book and one of the last is history of philosophy and theology connivance that has historically existed. Don' t miss it. You can take one or two of them as much as you can and have them in your private library. I don ' t know if you want to make any notes. Alfonso about it.
It' s not right. Good. Yes, well, Alfonso, he always likes to talk a lot about himself, but I do because the truth that has illustrated us and blessed us a lot with his writings, because listen we left him here because we would follow him. But radio time also has a limit and so does yours. I thank you very much, Alfonso, for your appearance on the train of life again and we will speak again any
time you have a good time. Thank you, but before you ended up half lost, not talking about it, but about this booklet, which is a little booklet that ormes what were born in the fifties, as I count, and six It has to remember was the catechism that, necessarily in school from the age of six we had to know by heart. I was little, but it' s literally I have it because I' m a collector. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but we were small and clear it cost
us a lot and besides, it' s nice. There I see it and at that time I didn' t realize it, but there is Jesus Christ and underneath children of all colors, there are all blacks here in this part are two black whites, a cobrizo. It will be beautiful the Christ who had something to teach to all children. And I mention it more than anything, because it has been since the sixties, as already of children we were taught the apostolic creed. We' ve been talking about the church parents
and under it today I understand. At that time I recited it because if not the Master punished me, because I did not explain, it had to be memorized. Yes, yes, I create an almighty father uncle, creator of the earth' s heaven. We believe Jesus Christ, that only son, our lord and then follow the scripture, I believe in the Holy Spirit
and so on. But of course, this creed is very simple. It was for the children, but we all remember and have ever been to the Catholic Church that they also recite after this so simple so that we realize the evolution, the idea, the trinity, the so- called constantinopolitan Nicene creed, that is, the creed of Nicaea. If you notice one important thing, if you see here more or less, in this column, it is the apostolic creed, let us say the primitive creed and in this column,
which is much broader, it is the creed of Nicaea. And there you can see that they have already passed between one and another almost three hundred years. The first says I believe in God the Father the second to clear, I believe in one God, because there and some accused Christianity that believed among the gods they are clear, they believe one God father, almighty, creator of heaven and earth of all things visible and invisible is worth that we have
no doubt. The first creed said because these were cretes, which were recited to those who were to be baptized. This you baptize in this faith and they had to recite from memory. That' s why atheism taught him by heart. It is secret, as if he was a Christian who admitted that, but they could only explain it to God the Father, for that is it. Then they make it clear that this God is a God only says so I believe in Jesus Christ nothing more. But then he adds the creed.
Here is a long sentence, but the way to read, because Julius also knows it from memory, I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, only son of God, born of the Father before all the centuries, God, of God light of light, true God, true begotten, not created of the same nature of the Father by whom all was made that by us, men, and by our salvation under heaven that left here are already all theology and the same in the Holy Spirit, says, I believe in the Holy
Spirit And there they ended already here, does not say. I believe in the Holy Spirit, Lord and giver of life that comes from the father and son, that with the father and son receives the same worship and glory and that spoke by the prophets here And it is very nice to keep in mind how the logs is a development, it is a process and that sometimes I myself as young. This I recited because until I was seventeen years old I became, for until I was fourteen years old, but until I was fourteen
I went to church because I liked the Catholic Church. And this we had to recite every Sunday and they' re still in the subconscious. But it ’ s nice to see that process that you can’ t think about, as already reading the Bible they have plenty for your spiritual life. But to understand faith in depth we have to study a little bit, not advance on the subject of theology with people who are able, so that we take advantage of all the wealth and do not fall into heresies or that flutists who are
saying look. I have here a truth that you don' t know because your Church has deceived you and I don' t know in groups and estates what there are. No, then good that we see how the Church has always had, in every age, has been specifying the terms to the principles worth with the cred that of children. But now, as Paul says, there are moments to drink milk, but there is another time, as a
Christian, that we must already eat solid life. He came to all who I am not gain as Christians, who are already solid people, who are well fed so that he will do better in life, in everything, in all his relationships, not only in the mind, but in his way of treating those around him. That' s how it is, my friend.
Thank you for this point. In addition, a review an example very very very very graphic, because, for example, in the Creed Niceno is thinking I good that Athanasius in the fourth century, just already does that he had tried several times, but unsuccessfully. But finally Tarasius' s thesis is imposed on claiming the divinity of Jesus Christ. And well, because widespread Christianity had adopted this heresy, it was not that it minimized the person of Jesus Christ.
So the thing is, it' s interesting, it' s very interesting. And then see about the creeds, me or the catechism. Yes, the truth is that there were things that were interesting and now contrasting them strikes us very much. But well, thank God we have all those writings that help us, because nothing once again, Alfonso, dear friend, infinite graces and until the next I send you a hug. Thank you, goodbye Alfonso Wow. Well, ladies and gentlemen, we' re in a hurry.
But how good to fight Alfonso wardrobe historian and writer, prolific, besides, very good writer and then doctor also in theology and history. And the truth is that it places us, gives us those glimpses of history, because nothing more and nothing less. We have reached the final conclusion. I remind you that e- mail from the train of life. If you want to write to me to suggest that I talk about anything, it' s Julio
Pérez Arroba the train of life. Period. It' s Julio Pérez Arroba, the train of life, point that' s where you can write me directly and I' ll go forward. We are already practically the week of the beginning of April, April, May June and the 10th of June the National Call for Prayer of all the evangelical churches of the country, of the State in its seventeen autonomies, is called. We are called to pray for our country, for Spain. We pray for this country. We pray that
God will bless this country. There are some specific proposals and for God to bless our cities, bless local governments by helping them with wisdom, grace, there are still open doors and freedom to proclaim Jesus' message and also that our rulers be practical equity, in democratic equity and also in justice and remember
Saturday, June 10, in different cities. The calls are for marches, points, and prayer meetings, for there we will be God through the direction also of his national coordinator, Samuel Vázquez, and we will all be aware. For today, nothing more and nothing less has spoken to them a good friend, Julio Pérez. Until the next Chao. Evangelical churches are a place of peace and friendship. You can freely attend the nearest evangelical church in your
neighborhood or your population. You' ll be very welcome.