¶ Intro / Opening
Hello, and welcome to episode 242 of Effect, a moment of reflection. I'm Dave.
¶ Introductions
And I'm Matthew. And, yeah, I think that title works a lot better than anticlimax, don't you, Lee?
Yeah. Anticlimax might encourage people not even to bother listening. And you're okay. Yeah. You know, like yes. So, yeah, good thinking at the last minute, Matthew. Well done.
It's it's, a weird pause if you're here waiting for Kickstarter news. We've got some Kickstarter news, obviously, but the Kickstarter is finished. And we've got this, like, 2 weeks while Kickstarter go out and, you know, actually get the money off people, before they give it to us.
Well, Kickstarter sit on the money and keep the interest before they give it to us. They do that.
Kickstarter are earning well plenty from their commission. I don't think they're that worried about the interest, but they do want you know? I mean, I happen to know somebody somebody communicated with us because, their card failed, and they were very worried that they weren't gonna get in on that and the thing. And I can't remember quite how they solved it, but they did solve it in the end. And that's what this 2 weeks is about is Yeah.
For dealing with all those issues. Anyway, Yeah. I'm Matthew. That's what I I did say that, didn't I?
Yeah. You did. Yeah. Well done.
And and this episode is a moment of reflection, not least because, it's only gonna be a moment because Dave has to dash off to Lester to watch an incredibly important national sporting event, apparently. So we have
got the darts. I me me and my old mate, Dave, from university used to play darts when we were, you know, at uni.
At university?
He was the captain of the darts team, you know. I was in the team. I was good enough just to be in the team, but we always wanted to go to one of the big, darts events. They used to hold it down at, Alexander Palace, which would have been ideal because that's just down the rail rail line from here, but they've allude it. It's down in Leicester. And he and he he said, look. Well, let's just bloody go. Come on. Let's just do it. And so this is our this is us going and doing it. So we shall
This is.
And eat and shout at people throwing small little arrows at a small board that
And say A 100 Tiny, tiny board. I'm sure there's I'm sure it's
going up in the screens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm expecting it's gonna be a lot of fun, actually. It's
gonna be quite random. And when somebody scores 180, what does the audience do?
I think they clap and cheer and maybe go
Oh, they don't all shout in unison. 180. Mate.
You know, I'll I'll tell you next time. I'll find out later.
Okay.
Yeah.
Cool. So, Darts, Dave is getting into that incredibly athletic sport. That's good.
That does remind me of the weekend of the news sketch, which is about Darts, but it was all about drinks on the table. And he had,
oh, he's
he's he's gone for the pint. He's gone for the pint early. Oh, that's a risk. That's a risk. Double scotch. Yeah.
I do remember that sketch. That I don't I don't remember the, with whom I live sketch, but
I do remember. Who I live with. Yeah. With whom I live. Yeah. Anyway, sorry.
So, so we've got a a reasonably concise world of gaming. There is a lot of world of gaming news, so we'll talk through that. And we thought in this sort of we've also got you know, we're gonna keep you updated now every fortnight, with with what's going on in, in our development of Tales of the Old West, so we've got some more Old West news. But we thought, given that this is a moment of reflection, we would just look back on where we started. And David's done a little essay, reflecting upon Coriolis.
And so and I think, you know, I it's inspired some thoughts in me, so I I will argue with him at the end of it as well.
As as is traditional, of course.
As is traditional. Yes. So, oh, the one thing I didn't check Dave, carry on talking for a bit. I don't think we've got any new patrons.
¶ World of Gaming
Jake. Just check. Yes. So, okay. This is a a unscheduled little thing.
So anyway, well, with gaming, I'd like to start talking about we've got a lot of stuff here. So, one one interesting thing that, that came up was the, Pendragon game which came out. Yeah. And Chaosium have now announced they are launching what's called the companions of Arthur, which I haven't looked into deeply, but I saw it. But it's, it's a community content platform, is that the right way of putting it, for, for fans to create their own stuff for the new pen dragon which is cool.
I haven't got my new pen dragon book yet. I don't know when that's due to arrive.
No. Have you not?
I've got a starter set, but I I ordered the book, I think. Or did I maybe I didn't yet.
Well, yeah, I would have thought you should have had it by now. It was on sale at Essen.
Yeah. So maybe I maybe I maybe I was going to order, but I haven't got around to doing it. But, yeah, so I need to get that. So that'll be, that'll be good. Although I'm I'm I don't know.
I'm I'm a bit conflicted because I've I've, you know, I've loved our campaign of Pendragon over the decades. I'm not sure I'm ever gonna start my own. So it's, it's it's an interesting one, because I'm not sure I'm not sure how that how that would work out really. And I, you know, I don't frankly have time for for new campaigns at the minute. And as we'll discuss later, I am at the start of a new Coriolis campaign, which, you know, I haven't had time to do justice to yet, but I certainly will and looking forward to getting into.
Yeah. I don't feel the need to run a new Pendragon campaign having played in Andy's. This is Andy Gibbs, old school friend, for almost 40 years. Some I mean, he's been our friend for all of that time. But Yeah. But we've been playing that single Pendragon campaign for almost 40 years. I feel, you know, that that's Penn Dragon done. It might be difficult. That game anymore, David.
It might be difficult to top that experience, wouldn't it? So, Absolutely. Yeah.
Yes. And that and the the thing about you can't step in the same river twice. And, Yeah. I I think we might be disappointed. I mean, I'm sure new Pendragon is lovely. It's probably, you know, I mean, Andy's been playing with effectively first edition rules, plus a little bit mixed in from other stuff, plus some, you know, households and stuff
like that.
Yeah.
Yeah. So I, I expect the new, version is much tighter and has all the best bits of what we loved about Peb Dragon and none of the crappy bits. So, you know, I urge people to get it, and I urge people to write for it as well. I don't think, you know, I don't think, actually, I'd urge, Andy to write for it because I I don't think our campaign was quite in the spirit of what Pendragon was meant to be. I think your man, Greg Stafford, definitely didn't imagine it as the dark ages post Roman sort of setting that we did.
I think he did see it as the 15th century knights in shining armor, but also set in the dark ages, weirdly, this thing. So I'm not sure that any of our adventures would necessarily work being written up and and, Yeah.
That's that's interesting because, I mean, if you, you know, if you watch sort of, you know, Excalibur, classic movie, which I think quite a lot of people might take inspiration from for, you know, for for a Pendragon game. That is very much, you know, 15th century knights in very, very shiny armor, but dumped back into, you know, the dark ages.
One of my favorite films, Sat.
It is a classic film. I mean, I always the the scene
Berlin?
Sorry. The scene the scene where Arthur and, you know, where he finally night nights him, that's just making the making, my my spine shiver just thinking about it. That's absolutely superb superb scene. And Merlin is saying, what? I didn't see this. And it's just it's it's brilliant to say.
Love it.
But but that I think that's very much, a lot of people's inspiration or or, you know, expectation maybe of what a Pendragon game would be like. And I think you're right. I think that's probably what, Greg Stafford was was aiming, driving towards more than a sort of I I used the word maybe, you know, maybe it's not the best word, sort of more of a gritty kind of dark ages, as you say, post Roman world Mhmm. That that we did. Yeah.
I'm I'm not really sure what Andy would have done differently if he was trying to set it more in that Excalibur style than, you know, a dark ages history style because I
think I don't think he would have wanted to. I don't think he'd have played it at all if he'd been forced to do
it in that. But I'm not sure what he'd have done differently because the game certainly had that knights in shining armor kind of vibe, but set in that, you know, post Vortigern, you know, world of, you know, Vortigern being a, you know, historical figure at the end of the Roman occupation of Britain. Yeah. I don't know what it would have done differently, but it definitely had that kind of feel. It had that messier, dirtier, muddier feel, you know, than the cleaner feel maybe of of sort of the Excalibur style.
Yeah. So, one of my I ought to say, we ought to add on maybe to the end of this section, a bit of an SN report because I've just realized
Absolutely.
I haven't mentioned that at all. And, one of my colleagues on the stand went over and talked to somebody we know at, Chaosium. It's the first time Chaosium have had a proper stand there, so they were they were all there. There was lots of exchange of of of chats and stuff like that. Nice to see them.
Of course, with a show as big as that, you don't get to spend as much time as you want with with anybody. No. Oh, oh, god. I his name's on the tip of my tongue, the person he spoke to. Did did, some work for Modiphius on Conan. Dowell? Dowell? Oh, shit. Anyway, This is great podcast. Somebody went to buy somebody went to buy something else and came away with Pendragon because, the your man said it's it's the best thing we've got for sale at the stand today.
So, yeah, I urge people to get Pan Dragon. Yamane, Thomas, one of our patrons is running a campaign now, and, I think everybody's thoroughly enjoying it. And that yeah. And I do believe, in fact, that in Australia, Thomas was, invited to write for the, for the companions of Arthur. Yeah.
Yeah. He said
it to me.
That's cool. That's really good.
So, yeah, we should see something from him there. If he does anything as half as good as his,
Japanese person. Base and something like that.
Yeah. We're we're going well. But, yeah. And I I I think it's just like all the other community content programs on drive thru. So it's got a 5050 split. Right. Cool. And I urge people who do write for it that they they should. I just wonder whether some of my my old friend, Chris, who is actually writing for Chaosium, their novels, and their Arthurian novels, might might first some stuff in there as well. Okay.
The other thing that we were selling at, and we're selling quite well at Essen was Electric State, which should be hitting people's doormats now. Yeah. And I quite like it. I didn't back it, but I've got a review copy Yeah. Same. It has.
I didn't exactly
get it. Notified about it while I was selling it in Essen. Mhmm. So it didn't tempt me obviously to sell me sell sell myself a copy. I'm I I'm liking you know, I didn't even look at, the PDF, but I'm liking the lovely clean layout. It looks like it's an even simpler version of the, the year zero engine than we've seen anywhere before. So I'm gonna read through the rules and have a look at it. And the other thing I'm gonna be reading through the rules is it does have a lone traveler chapter Mhmm.
Chapter 8 Yeah. Which is a set of solo rules.
So, yeah. So I so I I You and I
have a newfound interest in solo rules,
don't we? Well, we we we do need 1. So Yeah. Seeing we've committed to doing them. No. I I I I got that as well. I got a review copy. I hadn't I hadn't backed it. It wasn't something that I I was expecting I would play. As you say, you know, the usual pre league standard, it looks lovely.
There's a great map in it of of the West Coast, you know, California, which looks absolutely great. It it kind of felt a bit between, you know, a a mixture of Tales of Tales of the Loop Tales of the Loop and Walking Dead almost in it kind of look and feel. I haven't read it through in great detail yet, But, again, it looks lovely. And as I said, if I've if I've had a copy come through, then those who've backed it should be getting it very, very soon if they haven't got it already.
Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing that we, I think, we both got a review copy of is Path of Glory from Dragonbane.
Yes. That is that is true. Again, it's
Which according to our patrons have actually backed it. I think we might have beaten them to that one. So I think that's coming to your test quite soon.
Yeah. I mean, again, it's, you know, I I I bought the Dragonbane box set, and then I I bought the bestiary largely because they were lovely lovely books, and lovely products and not really thinking I'm ever going to run a or play in a Dragonbane campaign. I enjoyed I enjoyed playing it at, where was it? It was Comic Con last year where we ran lots of demos, and I I enjoyed that. It was a lot of fun.
The the single d twenty is still a bit of an issue for me these days, frankly. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, if if I wasn't running if I wasn't playing or going, you know let's start again. With a fantasy setting or a fantasy game, if Forbidden Lands wasn't there, I would very much go to Dragon Vein, I think.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that might be fair. I too much prefer Forbidden Lands just because of the year zero engine because, you know, obviously, we're a year zero podcast. We can't talk about any other engine. But but, Dragon Bathing is definitely fun. I so we were running demos again at, Essen. Essen. And it was great fun, running those. One of the things that I hadn't used before, but we we didn't it was a simple encounter with bandits in and in. Right.
Well, it was an encounter with the inn. Whether or not it was with bandits or not, it was kind of up to the players. But they it was great to get out of the pack of cards, the improvised weapons, brackets in cards, and and have a little stick it stick stick of those. So when somebody says, oh, I grab a bottle. I said, well, you don't grab a bottle. Actually, pick one of these random cards and see what's to hand.
Okay.
And, they, and and at one point, somebody picked up a squealing pig.
Okay. You had you had
those hilarious moment. How did you notice that?
That before. But, again, it's, you know, it's the mirth and mayhem approach, isn't it? So and it's and, yeah, I I like that very much indeed. I mean, the
We definitely sold a few copies, Essen. But I'll tell you what, we also sold out of, Forbidden Lands. So it
was nice to see. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it is I
mean, we didn't have as much Forbidden Lands as we had Dragon Vein. But Yeah.
I mean, I've I've said it before. I mean, Dragonbane is such a beautifully produced product, and the artwork is just great. And it really has a lovely feel to it. Again, it's another one of those books. You know, I've said before, you know, I don't play Versen very much these days. And, you know, until you get around to running the next one with with my butler character Ferguson, I probably won't. But every now and then, I just like to take the book off the shelf and and be
Look at it.
It's like it's like, you know, this should be a, you know, a way of gaining a point of faith in Tales of the Old West, taking down your favorite book and flicking through it. Because it feels it feels like it. It feels like it because it's such a lovely book, and I think Dragonbane has a similar sort of feel to it as well. It just just feels good to flick through it. And, yeah, it's just, you know, the the quality of it is is remarkable, actually.
It's it's, yeah. It's one of those games games where they've kind of sprinkled it with that free league pixie dust, which just adds something which is a little bit intangible.
Yes. Yeah. It it is it is marvelous, actually. Now, I noted so interestingly, somebody who shall remain nameless said something to me at the Essen at Essen, which was, yeah. I think we learned our lesson about, announcing second editions. And sure enough, I noticed we don't have a second edition of alien coming anymore. Instead, we've got an evolved edition.
Yes. The evolved edition, which is an interesting workbook, is it? Because it's still, you know, alien e 2. Yeah. But it's e 2 as in its two e's. It's the evolved edition e 2
Yeah.
Rather than edition 2. Yeah. It's it's interesting, isn't it? I think they yeah. The backlash, is that the right way of putting it or at least the the response from the, from the community
From the community.
About it being a second edition as in do we need 1? You know, this is too early, has obviously landed with them, and they've realized that actually that was, you know, a slight misstep. And, yeah, I mean, calling it an evolved edition is great because, I mean, at least it makes a bit more sense. Yeah. And it's clearer that, you know, they've they've been very clear about the fact that all the previous first edition or unevolved, alien, is all gonna be backward back compatible with the new stuff, which is good.
So yeah. Oh, yeah. I saw that. I had a little sort of wry smile. Interesting that, you know, even though even though you've not you're not saying who said it, we could probably work it out by who was who was so who who was Essendon?
There was a wide team.
Who who was Essendon for free league?
I'm not gonna tell you now. You're gonna use detective work.
I am I am actually genuinely interested at who was there from Free League, not just as a as a as a sneaky way of working it. Who who who told you that? But it's, yeah. I think that's a good it's a good move. I think that makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. And, also, they the announcement that the evolved edition was coming also said that, would be including stuff or they would be including stuff from Romulus.
Yes. Yes. I saw that. Yeah. That's interesting.
Which makes me ask. You're you're you're now working on this to some degree. Did they ask you to do anything from Romulus? Or, they're gonna still keep mum about what you're doing?
No. My the the stuff that I'm working on is, yeah, it's a fairly discreet sort of campaign related bit of work. So Oh,
I'm serious. I'm curious.
So, yeah, so interesting. It's good stuff. It's it's it's quite a small bit of work, which is fine. But it's, yeah. Hopefully, it's, you know, they are they are keen to expand or what's the or cement maybe the the the campaign game in Alien.
And I think that's that's, you know, that's a good idea that, you know, many people have spoken about Alien being, you know, great for a cinematic, but struggling perhaps a little bit to to land the the campaign. I I don't entirely agree, having played in a couple of alien campaigns either that I've run or as a player. But I do I do accept the the comment where you say that, well, actually, quite a lot of that came campaign could be run-in in in another system, and it doesn't have to be alien. But, I mean, you could say that about pretty much any sci fi game, really, I guess. You could run it in another in another system if you wanted to.
Yeah. I think, so I had somebody coming to me and say, when are they gonna make any campaign material for Alien? To which I directed him to your book, sir.
Thank you. To the the the award winning, the multiple award winning, Building Better World's campaign book for Alien.
And I said, look. These box sets, these are cinematic. These books, these are campaign books. And I think it had totally passed him by. But, again,
actually Did he buy it?
I I believe he did. Yes. Excellent. And but but, actually, if we look at those 2 campaign books, if we count Building Better Worlds and the
Colonial Marines.
Colonial Marines Operations Manual, as as 2 campaign books. The colonial I know. I playtested some of Colonial Marines Operations Manual with you. Yeah. And it still doesn't work as a campaign, does it? Because it's it that fit that one feels to be like a series of cinematics. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. No. I agree I agree with that. Yeah.
The only body that, that gets through all 7 adventures is the body of the marine corps, not any of the
major marine. Yeah. So I think I was very keen with Building Better Worlds to to create it as a not just a campaign that you you play, you know, there is a campaign in there, but as a set of rules and tools that will help you run your own campaign completely. So that's
Which is obviously what I pointed out especially to this person Yeah. Saying that this was the better campaign. And, also, I pointed him to our YouTube campaign as well
as a Yeah.
Cool. How it could go. Yeah. Exactly. So so yeah. So, anyway, so evolving into better supporting campaigns, I think that's an evolution that we can we can all agree would be a good thing for Aydian. Yeah. Rushing on, because we're 23 minutes into this, Dave. You gotta be gone in another 50 or so another, whatever.
40 or so?
Another 20. A a Ozmagika. Now Ozmagika is not a game that either you or I have played, but it's always been on the edge of my peripheral peripheral vision. And they've got one better than Chaosium, in that, they have just given an open license that. So Cool.
It's not a 5050 split. You can pretty much create any Ars Magica stuff you want. And actually, there's a few similarities with Pendragon. It's set in a kind of medieval Europe, but it's a mythical medieval Europe where you got all these great houses of magicians. So I feel there's an enormous opportunity for localization there for people to be talking about bits of their country, you know, their bit of Europe expanding that, you know, away from the one paragraph that appeared in the core book about what, I don't know, Lithuania was like at the time.
Yeah. And building it into something, interesting and novel and based and seeped in local legend.
So do you own Ars Magica? Do you own a copy?
I do not own Ars Magica. No.
Because I've I've never played it. I haven't I haven't seen it. I haven't read it or anything.
It's crowdfunding a 5th edition or, a complete edition, I think, which is almost like meant to be a final edition. It pulls together everything that's been really good, edits out some of the crappy bits. Cool. And that's going through crowdfunding now. It's by Atlas Games, so I know the post is gonna be horrendously expensive. So I'm not gonna back back it.
Yeah. Yeah.
But, maybe when it comes into retail, I'll pick it up then.
Pick up a copy of it.
Yeah. And have a look at it then.
Cool.
And talking of crowdfunding, The Expanse is doing a second edition.
I I never saw the first edition, really.
Oh, you didn't see the first? I did play the first edition. I'm not a huge fan of Green Ronin's age system, which underlies it.
It feels like that was quite recent as well, the Kickstarter for that before.
Probably only 5 years ago. I can't remember when it was. How come they're not gonna stick? Now the interesting thing about that is the first edition was set firmly in the period of the TV show. This edition, is set actually in the interregnum between effectively where the TV show ended and where TV show ended and where the subsequent novels begin.
There's Right. There's quite a big gap of space there. Yeah. So this feels to be slightly more sandbox y in that you can do interesting stuff if you're into that
experience world. You don't don't feel like you've gotta follow the canon too closely. Yeah. Yeah. And that's
So I think that's a good idea, and it's coming a little like Alien. It's coming with miniatures and stuff like that. So I think miniature figures and miniature ships. That
Yeah. It it seems interesting, isn't it? Is there is there you know, have have all these companies suddenly tweaked that actually doing a bunch of miniatures is is a is a easy moneymaker, you know, or because because I certainly remember talking with with, Nils when they did, what's it called? I've got it up here somewhere. Yeah. Crusader Kings board game.
Oh, yes.
And he was decrying the the fact that it came with loads and loads of miniatures, and it was a right bloody faff and didn't want to do things with miniatures ever again. Now they obviously have even here with things like Tales From the Luke board game and other things. But, you know, I wonder if now maybe, you know, the production costs for miniatures, you know, of a high quality have come right down. So it makes it worth the faff doing miniatures to, to get out there. And I guess people particularly for Alien, I mean and I don't know, you know, what what the miniatures for Expanse would be like particularly, how how kind of bespoke or how, you know, unique they would be, you know, if you know the Expanse setting.
Yeah. You know, fig figures for xenomorphs are gonna do well, aren't they? But, figures figures for just some bloke in a spacesuit might not be quite so exciting.
Yeah. I mean, I I think the ships will sail well. I don't know. I think there is possibly a thing about when you're doing a Kickstarter, miniatures as stretch goals and add ons seem to do extraordinarily well.
Or attractive. Yeah.
At, for example, Sanderson, Peter Peterson? What am I saying? Sandy Peterson's God's War or whatever it's called, the the sort of Cthulhu Wars, I think it's called. Yeah. Which is, I'm gonna say a massive, massive board game, and so it is, but it's only a massive, massive board game because the Kickstarter campaign was designed that way. And, you know, I've got a friend who's got, like, a cupboard full of just Cthulhu Wars, boxes and expansions all with massive plastic miniatures in.
Yeah.
And, you know, when you got a big table and you put them on that big table, those figures look pretty impressive. So is there a thing about the psychology of a Kickstarter or a crowdfunding campaign Yeah. That just encourages people to go, oh, oh, I'm gonna get the set. Couldn't get the full set. I'll put back more and more and more as more figures become available. Yeah. And it and it Interesting.
And it does work. Whereas I do think, you know, it's a faff. Immediately now we're beholden to probably Chinese manufacturers getting the miniatures out on time, and then shipping, getting them to best capture on time. Yeah. Bit of a nightmare.
Bit of a nightmare. Right. But talking we're we're we're we're well into, we're well into crowdfunding things. I'm gonna skip over, the fact that Pirate Borg, I will mention briefly, Pirate Borg is kick starting a new a couple of new campaigns, and, of course, more Pirate Borg if you if you didn't get in the first book. It's one of my favorite borgs, so so do look into that if you're at all interested in jumping across the borg train.
Across the borg train? Anyway, but you've got some news you've got some news, Dave, about a crowdfunding campaign for the new Conan.
Yes. So that's coming out starting on 15th October, which, is Wednesday, I believe. Tuesday?
This coming Wednesday. Yeah. Tuesday. Coming Tuesday. Because Tuesday. Yeah.
Said Wednesday because we're normally recording on a Sunday, but this is Saturday for us to say. 15th October. Yeah. So Conan the Hyborian age, the new Conan role playing game by Monolith, which I have had the pleasure of working a little bit on. I've written a few scenarios for that. So that's coming out on Kickstarter in 3 days time. It's
And that usually that's got figures in the campaign as well, hasn't it, if I remember rightly?
Well, I'm not sure. I was just having a quick look at their their, their their pre launch page, and I can't see on there whether it is or it isn't. But it no. Actually, of course, it it is gonna be it it it is gonna have miniatures, I'm sure, of it because Yeah. Mon monoliths are basing this on the board games that they've done, and they want to use Which
has got miniatures.
Yeah. And they want to use or be able to, you know, the the the the stuff that comes with the board games, they want that to be compatible with the role playing game. So there are battle maps in in the board game that they want to be able to use for the for the role playing game as well. So, yes, there'll definitely be figures involved. But, yeah, they've got 4 and a half 1000 followers at the moment. It's it's, you know
No. It's more than we have.
That's it's 10 times more than we had, nearly. Okay. We can aspire. We can aspire, and I'm not complaining about the numbers that we had.
No. No. We we did very well. And this
is a superbly well.
A well known AP building on the success of the board Big company. Board game.
Company. Yep.
Yeah. And and where is it? Is it kick starting, or is it packet kicking, or is it game jamming,
or No. Kick Kickstarter.
Oh, Kickstarter. Interesting.
Yeah. So so yeah. So if you're interested in that, going back that, there are there are 4 there are at least 4 superb scenarios, coming out with it.
Mhmm.
Right. Because because I wrote 4.
Because you wrote those 4.
And they seem to be quite pleased with them. I've seen some of the artwork to go with them, and it's really good. I mean, they've got some fabulous art with this game. So, it's it's very nice seeing the things that I imagined, you know, coming out in a piece of art that somebody else has added their own creativity to, and they look they look brilliant. There's there's one in particular where, no spoilers, but there's 2 kind of demon things.
And, they yeah. It's it's a fabulous, fabulous picture. So, yeah, Conan, the hyborean age, 15th October. You can click on the the, like, the, the pre launch page so you get notified if that's what you want. And, yeah, go and back in. I think it might be quite good.
Cool. Cool. And that's really brought our world of gaming news to an end, except I just wanna briefly say I had a fabulous time with Essen. Worked very, very hard. I think I've only just recovered now a week later.
It's a long con, isn't it, that one? I mean, it's it's an it's a Ford, any convention, isn't it? I mean
It's 4 days. So
Plus traveling and everything.
All day Wednesday, getting straight into setting up after a hellish journey on the trains. But then everybody comes in, and it was sold out every day. Mhmm. So we're looking at 100 of thousands of punters, coming through. It's a big old hall.
I have to say, I find it really hard to walk around the halls without just sort of despairing at capitalism and thinking, do we even need so much stuff? I mean, it's really hard to think, oh, I wanna buy this game, because, you know, to begin with, there's more than you wanna buy, and then and then there's just too much, and you don't wanna buy anything. It's my problem with it. And, you know, it's you know, I've been, what, my 3rd my 3rd lesson, I think, now. And and, yeah, I think that feeling gets cemented every time I go.
So
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's I mean, I haven't been to Essen, and I think, you know, it's of a scale bigger than anything I've been to before. So, you know, the biggest thing I've been to is GK Games Expo.
And I
think the scale of Essen is significantly greater than that. And that's Yeah. You know, that's, you know, that's that's, yeah, you can kinda get lost in the, you know, like you say, the the opportunity to spend money and, like you say, the the just the the massive you know, the tsunami of stuff that is there to, to spend your money on if you wanted to.
We did see some fans, though. So, Liolin came and we we had lunch. He came for one of my lunch breaks and we had lunch and we talked about, we talked about tales of the old west, of course. That was a Saturday, so the campaign had finished by then. And, he he pointed out and this is an interesting thing that I I now want to find some of these books and read.
In the late 19th century, there were, a number of western novels published by a German writer, which obviously have a very German slant on the west. And he he said he imagined that's how he'd be playing his campaign when he started. I thought, oh, I might wanna read those contemporaneous novels based on that German experience. I don't know how realistic or pulpy they are, but, I'd be interested to see if we can find out
Or whether you can find find them in English. Yeah.
Yeah. Or whether you can even find them in English. Good point. Yeah. And then also, I want a special shout out to Alex Bueno, who I mentioned on that little video we recorded when we were, out there for the ending the campaign.
But the Alex is from Brazil, and he's not only a backer, but had come to Essen and then come to the stand to say hi. Nice. So, Alex, you've worked very hard coming to say hello, and we haven't got any patrons. Actually, just touching back on an earlier topic, we haven't got any new patrons to to thank. But, Alex, thanks thanks for coming halfway around the world to say hi to Virdesen.
I'm sure that's not the only thing the only reason you came around the world, but that's lovely to meet Yeah. A Brazilian backer.
And and if it was, he'd have been sorely disappointed as well. But, you know
Yeah. They, we didn't get a chance. He did he didn't come when it was a break time for me. You you know, you work pretty hard from 9 till, You did. 9 till 7 at that.
It is all all consuming, these things, Ali. Yeah. Even when you get a little bit of time off, it's like you're still kind of yeah. It's it's difficult to stop.
And we were round the back of, or rather round the back of our stand because our stand was massive, Dave, and our stand at UK Games Expo is likely to be equally massive. But around the back of our stand was, 2 little mice. And so I recorded a lovely, lovely interview with them. But, sadly, even though I've taken my expensive mics and I spent time setting them all up, I didn't actually record through those mics. So the only sound that that that I've got is what my phone recorded.
Don't ask me where I screwed up. I, to be honest, don't quite know, but I definitely screwed up on that one. So that is now a Kickstarter not a Kickstarter exclusive. Sorry. That is now a Patreon exclusive, that interview, but I'm we must get them back online to interview them before their, their new, back a kick campaign starts.
We've got a month to do it, Dave, but they were lovely people to talk to. Really interesting. Very insightful. If you if you like white noise, come and listen to our interview. I've made it just about audible. If you're a patron, come and listen to the interview. It's free to all patrons. But I will we will get a better recording done, in in time for On
the show in due course. Yeah.
The show in the next month. Yep. Cool. Cool. Which I think probably brings us to our moment of reflection.
¶ Old West News
Oh, no. It doesn't. Old West News.
Old West News. Which is well, it just it is a bit of a moment of reflection because it's now, how long since the kick started to finish? Just over a week. Yeah. 9 9 or 10 days.
And it's it's with, you know well, part of our thinking about possibly calling this episode anticlimax is that, you know, that 6 weeks of the the run-in to the kickstarter and then the kickstarter itself was, all consuming, you know, situation of being online all the time and keeping to keep keep keeping checking how it was doing. And then as soon as it finished, didn't need to do that anymore. And so suddenly, it's like, you know, we've gotta wait a couple of weeks until the Kickstarter processes go through their motions and and get the money to us. So, yeah, it was suddenly it was all on, and then suddenly there was nothing. So it was, it was a bit it's a bit weird, a bit unusual.
But as you say, a good moment for reflection. You know, we've said it before, but, you know, we're blown away by how well we did and how much support we had. So, again, another huge thank you to anybody and everybody who's who's, who supported us, either backed us or or or had a look and, you know, might might buy in future. So thank you all so much for that. But there's, yeah, there's still plenty to do.
So we haven't been sitting on our laurels. I've been working through the text with one one last time to to get it in the right place to go off to the editors. I've got one chapter left to do, which, needs a little bit of, a little bit of modification now to include our magnificent 5. Yeah. But that's that's easy enough.
That'll be done over the next few days. The magnificent 5, we speak to them, so we might have to roll their details in a bit later on, but I think, you know, we can persuade Neil that adding a few little bits will be fine. The campaign tales are coming together. The some All Our Fabulous authors, 1 or 2 of them have begged for a a a slight extension on the deadline, which I've which I've said yes, which is just another week.
Right. So come May, when we haven't delivered, we'll look back at this moment and say, see, extension on your deadline. You screwed through us all out of whack.
No. I think as long as long as they come through on that I've only given them an extra week. That's all they asked for. So that's fine because they've got convention they're preparing for right now. Yeah. But we've got 10 of them back, I think, now. So there's a couple more came in yesterday. We've approved all the ones that we'd we've read so far. They're looking really good. It's great to have all these different voices and different ideas. So that's going really well.
So, yeah, just you mentioned, a a couple of things there that I thought I might chip in on. So we have got, obviously, the magnificent 5. I think I'm gonna communicate with them this day, actually. I'll send them a message via Kickstarter. So if you're one of the magnificent 5, you'll you'll see our opening questions basically about the sort of character you, thinking of.
Well, not necessarily you. You or your loved one, with their permission, of course, we're thinking of portraying. So, we'll send out those questions. We're not looking for portraits yet, or not looking for photos from you yet for for the portraits to be made from. Just just the idea of which characters so we can match you up possibly with some of the characters, Dave, that you've already got an idea of of who they are with the campaign.
Or Yeah. You know, we might have to make some new ones to to fit into the campaign. So Absolutely. Where the work is there. The other thing oh, yes.
Our sensitivity reader is hard at work on Yeah. The quite a few chapters that we were waiting until the end of the kick or waiting till the end of the kickstarter before sending them off. So, you know, again, they may come back with feedback and, you know, that might require a bit of change, to one or more of the chapters. But we can definitely be sending our editor, some of the chapters straight away, the mechanics chapters after all. Yeah. We should quite we should
I mean, we should be getting the report back from them within the next week or so, shouldn't we? So, as long
as it Yeah. This week, in fact.
Yeah. So as long as there's nothing too, you know, too too too big that we need to to do a massive rewrite on. And I'm I'm sincerely hoping Yeah.
If that report was liked for the last lot
I fully expect we'll get some tweaks, and there might be a few bits of bugs we wanna change. But, hopefully, because of all the effort and the and the time we put into this, you know, this content, I would I would very much hope that those those changes will be minor. So, that would be quite easy to to amend, I'm hoping. But, obviously, we'll wait to see what they have to say. Be interesting to see their report when it comes.
Cool. Cool. Cool. Also, I, well, actually, I'm waiting for a finalized design document from the dice manufacturer. Okay. Okay. Sadly, the end of our Kickstarter has joined in with the with the beginning of their Kickstarter. So they're they're otherwise distracted with with their own dice designs at the moment. But, hopefully, we'll get back to that one. Now one thing I have previously, said before that I think I need to apologize, and, I've misled people on their dice.
I I went with this particular company because I thought they were manufacturing in the UK. They're not actually they come from China. I mean, the dice is too hot people. So, that's a little extra wrinkle.
In the marketplace. They're they're a UK based company, but they then source their products from from overseas?
Yeah. A little bit like, our patron Neil does at Pludding Gaming.
Right. Yeah.
So I'm feeling a bit bad actually about not purchasing him. I mean, I was looking for a locally sourced, but, now I'm ending up, you know, I I think they're kind of a very similar business model to what Paladin does. But, Anyway, so so, yeah, there's that, happening. We're we're steaming ahead with the art. Our fay no.
I'm not I was gonna say our favorite artist, but, that's not fair to say. We've got we've tried out a couple of artists who approached us during the Kickstarter campaign, and they've produced some lovely bits of work. Yeah. But our original artist, Thomas, is also back from his video game contract. You will be seeing his art adorning the, the front of a video game shortly.
Not Mhmm. That we he can tell us which game it is yet, but it's a AAA game, so it's a big one. It's nice that we've got a cover from the same artist now. I'm feeling.
Yeah. That is excellent. And, you know, our our our cover is really good. There was one thing I wanted to say. So I I I spoke to, Andrew from oh, I don't remember the name now. At Tabletop Scotland about he he runs he runs a little, like like, newspaper magazine that comes out monthly. And, he he did a lovely interview. We had a great chat. And we we gave him some artwork to go with his publication. And he put the cover up on the front cover of
Oh, yes. On Never Mind the Dice Rolls.
Never Mind the Dice Rolls. Tightness Yeah.
In the show notes.
And it looked now I have to say, our our cover artwork on on his magazine looks lovely. It looks really, really cool. So I think we've we've done very well, and Thomas has done a great job with us for that that cover artwork, which I think is yeah. I'm very, very pleased with that.
Yeah. Of course. He's only got a front cover. Yes.
Our our
our hardback cover will be wrapped around, so you're not getting the whole artwork there. You can't buy Nevermind the does those rolls and think, well, I've got the best artwork now. You've only got half of it.
Yeah. Well, not even that because there's obviously all the artwork that comes in the book as well.
So Oh, and, of course, there's loads and loads of artwork that comes in the book. We've still got a what to do. I I've I've still gotta, rejig the art now based on based on our stretch goals and stuff like that, but we've got at least 5, archetype pictures to do. We've got still 5 chapter spreads to do, and, and 5 magnificent 7 portraits to do. A lot of fights in here. Yeah. Plus maybe some incidental artwork. But, those are those are my biggest priorities of getting done. Yeah. Yeah.
But we are getting more back. We got some lovely prospectus back, didn't we, from a
Yeah. They looked really good. Yeah. And and it's really helpful having, you know, the of the extra couple of artists because we can obviously spread them. You Now we've got more pride in our in our artwork department now. So, hopefully, this will this will allow us to get it all done by the the deadline we set ourselves. Is that it?
So, yeah, that's it. Have we anything else we meant to be mentioning about that? I don't think so necessarily. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Watch this space. Also, we want to say join our Facebook group.
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
And some people were asked about a Discord. I'm not sure whether we should set up a new Discord, especially for fans of the group, or whether we should join, Yeah. 0 Worlds and maybe talk to them about having a channel. But, you know, so if if if you if you want a Discord, contact us on our socials and demand 1, and we'll we'll think about it. Otherwise, though, join our Facebook group.
Yeah.
Right. Cool. And now, time to reflect once more. Time to reflect this time on Coriolis, Dave.
Yeah. And we've talked we've talked so much about things like Tales of the Old West and, and and other things in recent months. And, you know, I was I was thinking back to where, you know, to where we all started and actually how much Coriolis content we we, you know, we used to do. And I think, you know, it will it's it's quite nice in due course perhaps to try and and and find another vein of of Coriolis stuff we could possibly do and talk about. But, in the meantime, it it just got me thinking a little bit about what what Coriolis has meant, to me and to us.
And so I just thought I'd splurge out some thoughts and, yeah, let you have a listen to them. Anyone who's been listening to us with even half an ear over the years will know how much Coriolis The Third Horizon has meant to both me and Matthew, And the enormous influence that game has had on our lives. We have a lot to thank it for. So with it being a few years on and with Coriolis the great dark arriving on people's doorstep soon, I thought I'd take a self indulgent look at Coriolis and what it has meant to me. And make an assessment of how it stands up to games that have come out more recently.
¶ Reflections on Coriolis
Coriolis came out in 2016. Kick starting with 481 backers and making £32,240 against a target of 3,678. It presents a unique science fiction setting that I certainly hadn't seen before and was different from the standard traveler, 23100, Star Wars, and Star Trek games I played. Even different to the Firefly and Serenity RPGs, although the feel and theme was in many ways the same. It was also Free League's first venture into horror gaming, And I wonder if their experience with Coriolis helped them in their pitch for and their development of Alien.
The use of darkness points can definitely help the GM create a powerful horror vibe. The episode I played when we were awoken in portal space and my use of darkness points to drive the actions of the cursed ship in the spectral corsair campaign are two examples that leap to mind. The ability of darkness points to deliver that kind of game. Now I'm not saying they work as well as stress in Alien does, not for a minute. But as an early attempt for a horror vibe, it was a good try.
And, of course, darkness points were not just about horror, but about karma and the impact of inconvenience in the gods once too often. But I wonder if without Coriolis, we might not have got alien and stress either. But Coriolis is definitely unique In its setting, in its use of black ink, in what it was trying to achieve. The setting created opportunities for role playing that are usually missed by other games. Making religious observance an important, but more important fun aspect of the game.
Bringing a firefly vibe that really worked and worked better than the games specifically designed to bring out that vibe. Bringing out the horror of the darkness between the stars without going over the top in it. And offering a cultural setting that was fresh and engaging. One of Coriolis's strength is the depth of the setting and the actors within it. Nils from Free League said that Coriolis was too big, had too much content.
I think he said this not just from a creative perspective, but from a production point of view too. I get the production concerns, but from a creative viewpoint I disagree. The depth and breadth of the game is what makes Coriolis so great. Making everything a little uncertain. Making enemies on the surface actually be potential allies and vice versa.
Giving the GM such a breadth of opportunity to make the game what they want. I know some people cite this as a weakness. There's too much stuff to choose from. They don't know where to start and so on. Valid comments, but only to a point.
If you don't know where to start, just start at the beginning. If the breadth seems too much, focus on something you like and go from there. If you're worried you'll get something wrong, don't be. It's your campaign, your game. You can't get anything wrong in your game.
What you say goes. It's a tough ask to compare it to other games as there's a risk of comparing apples and pears. What's good and right for one game might not apply in the same way as another. But I think some recent offerings have suffered from being a little too concise. The Walking Dead, as much as I love it and have really enjoyed playing it, could have benefited from a little more depth in my opinion.
Others have struggled for being pigeonholed into one mode of play. This assumption applies to alien in some circles, I think. Although, I obviously disagree. Others struggle under the weight of expectation of being deep and complex story lines with many twists and turns. For example, Dune RPG.
Coriolis can do all these things in one game, and I think this is its crowning achievement and what makes it an enduring game that I hope will be out in the shops and opened up on people's tables for many years to come. There are a couple of things that have disappointed me a little bit. I had hoped that your spaceship in Coriolis would effectively be like the arc in Mutant Year 0 and be a really intrinsic part of your character's life and experience. It didn't really work out that way. And while I still love the way the ships work and how you can design the ship you want, it was still just an inert background rather than a living evolving thing that would drive your stories, rather than just being the backdrop to them.
It seems Free League has taken this on board with the great dark and created vessels and locations in that game that will do what the ships in Coriolis didn't. I wonder if I might be able to simply port those new rules into a Coriolis campaign. The other thing was the campaign. While there are many great aspects to it and I've had a lot of fun playing it, there were 3 things I didn't like. It is very railroady.
Now this could be an occupational hazard for a big campaign, but I'm sure there's more that could have been done to give the players greater agency or at least the illusion of greater agency. The strategic choices over the design effort for the Coriolis line. A big campaign sucks up a lot of time and resources and needs to be really, really good to make it worthwhile. So I just wonder what wonderful opportunities we missed by that choice. And 3rd, and spoilers, the core of the story being war with the first and second horizons seems so obvious and frankly a bit boring when there is so much you can do with the third horizon alone.
For me, Coriolis is still one of the best games I've ever had my hands on for the breadth of what it offers a playing group and the skill in which it achieves what it set out to do. I've just started another campaign. And even though I've been too busy, with what, I'll never know, to really dive into it, I can't wait to explore more of the 3rd horizon. And, obviously, without Coriolis, I wouldn't be here now talking to you. I wouldn't have been offered the chance to work on Alien and been given the opportunities that came after that that have culminated in our Kickstarter for Tales of the Old West doing better than Coriolis did back in the day.
I can truly say that the icons have blessed my adventures. So
you've, you've touched a you've touched a rather sore nerve there, mate, because when you know, if you remember, back in the days of the very beginning of the pandemic and lockdown, I said, oh, maybe we should play that new Coriolis campaign we've got and, ditch the old campaign I was running and new characters and do it all online. And we did that, and that that first bit of the campaign was very very kind of noirish, I always thought. And Yes. So Yeah. You know, I said, I think we could just have you and Tony because Andy didn't wanna join in, on an online campaign.
Yeah. You and Tony could be like a a couple of detectives, and we would play it that way. And sure enough, that's how we played it until the end, when I realized that a couple of detectives are gonna get slaughtered in the, in the climactic scene. Yeah. So then we recruited a bunch of our patrons who'd been listening and said, you know, do you wanna join in as kinda guest stars and come in for the final climactic thing?
And that was great. And then we did the second book much the same way. In fact, I thought, you know, interestingly, that second book can feel a bit railroady. I think, in fact, you said it was a bit railroady at one point. But, where am I going with this?
The the second book also, I think, feels a bit more railroading that you're going back and forth across the horizon following clues. And one of the things I did kind of, you know, for convenience of everybody, is I actually sent different characters to different parts of the adventure. So you weren't all hopefully, you didn't feel quite as railroaded as you would have done when, you know, if I'd said, oh, now you've gotta go to Daburran and do this this adventure. And that finished in a, shall we say, cataclysmic way. No spoilers.
Mhmm. And but then we were stuck waiting for the 3rd book, and so there was a bit of a pause. Plus, I was no longer unemployed, so, I had a busy job to do. I still do have that busy job. And by God, it's busy. Mhmm.
I'm wearing I've been wearing 3 hats this last week in my in my job, but still, you know, it's paying me quite well, so I can't complain. And but, you know, one thing that hasn't happened is that 3rd book has come out, and I said, right, we'll start doing that at some point. And 2 years later on, probably, almost 2 years at least, we haven't started. And part of me, I think, has slightly lost enthusiasm because of what you talk about with with with with your spoiler there, which you shouldn't know because because you're you're you're a player, mate.
Yeah. Shouldn't have worked that out by yet. But my my character doesn't know that necessarily.
Yeah. So I
mean, you know, you know, I I I mean, I've expressed my my disappointment in in the campaign, but I do say I did say, and I I stand by the fact that I have had a great time playing it. It's been a lot of fun. It's it's been great having the guest players coming in, and some of the best moments have been with our guest players. It's been absolutely great. And I you know, as a as a as a kind of principle for going forward for stuff that we might do online, you know, ourselves and having Yeah.
A rotating cast, I think that's a great really great way of doing it. And
Of course, the beauty of guest players is they're expendable. Or Nicholas is very expendable, and that we can kill him as often as we like. And Yeah. He keeps coming back for more. No. That's what Nicolas said. That was just the dice talking, not me.
So so yeah. So, you know, I I, you know, I wanted to to to express kind of, you know, warts and all because otherwise, you know, I could just gush about Coriolis for 10 minutes and,
you know,
everyone would say, oh, yeah. We get it, Dave. You like Coriolis. You know? Shut up. So I think there were yeah. As I said, there were things in the in the campaign which which which I felt, you know, were slightly disappointing for me personally, but that hadn't stopped me having great fun playing it.
Yeah. No. That's true. And yeah.
Yeah. So, yes, it it comes back to the comes back to the question then of of do we you know, is it something that you want to finish as a GM at some point in the future where we come back to it and and go through the 3rd book? I mean, I kind of feel that I would like to. Yeah. You know, even with my comments there, I've I've enjoyed the campaign so much, and I've enjoyed playing with everybody that that it would be nice to see it through to the end.
But again, obviously, you're the GM and, you know, that's, you know, it's it's it's a commitment, particularly when you've got a busy day job.
It is. It is. And my busy day job was meant to go down to 4 days a week, but that didn't happen. Yeah. Because of the state we're in. But maybe it will at some point in the new year, and then we can we can do that again.
Yeah. You
know, because we're not really busy with our second job of putting out our Kickstarter.
Well, yeah. There is that. Yeah. Yeah. I would think so, yeah, I mean, I'm I'm kind of wearing about 3 or 4 hats at the moment with all the different bits of work I've got, but my work doesn't pay me very well. Yeah. But but it's fine. It's fine.
It's the work you want you to do, Dave.
It is. It is. It is.
It's your ambition. I'm just just reminding you of that, and then
I can be
a writer, you said. I
just need to make his pay a bit better, frankly.
But, you know,
so do you.
So Said every writer in the world.
Well, yes. Exactly. Yeah.
3 or 4 superstars.
Yeah. That's very true. That's very true. Yeah. So, Coronas. Yeah. I mean, I still love it, and I'm I'm so looking forward to getting into into my new campaign when, when I've got a bit more time.
And, of course, one of the things actually we could consider doing is, you know, Coriolis now has a free license to it. And Yes. Even if we don't wanna play in the great dark, even if we think there's more of the horizon to explore, we can make that happen. Because, Dave, you and I have got a publishing company now with a successful Kickstarter under our belts.
So We do. It would be
interesting to
to test the water Yeah. To see how much how much how much, you know, how much demand is out there.
Yeah.
Yeah. Might be worth having a look at.
Right. Let's get this Cool. Western game out of the way first, shall we?
Yeah. Yeah. Well, first, one's yeah. One thing at a time. Yeah.
¶ Goodbye
But yeah.
Okay. I think we might be done here for this episode.
Yes. I think so. Perfectly timed, unlike us.
So you've got to get off to your darts tournament. I've got to do a bunch of chores and stuff, and it's goodbye from me.
And it's goodbye from him, and may the icons bless your adventures. You have been listening to the effect podcast. Presented by Fiction Suit and the RPG Gods. Music stars on a black sea. Used with permission of freely publishing.