Improving Student Outcomes Through Text Messaging with Josh Owens from Boost

smartphones. Josh was formerly the CEO of supply kick, a growth stage online marketplace retailer. He has also been a gubernatorial candidate for the state of Indiana and was an economics professor at Butler and Indiana University's boost connects directly to a student's Canvas account, and is easy and effective with no new work for administrators, instructors or students. Research has found that students who use boost are 3% more likely to pass their classes, and they earn 4% higher

grades. They're also 6% more likely to turn in any given assignment. Josh Owens, welcome to Ed Tech insiders. Hey, Alex, it's great to meet with you. Yeah, it's great to meet you, too. So Josh, you have a really interesting background, you've been an economics professor, you've been a gubernatorial candidate, you've done business experience in online retail and been a CEO in the past, give us a little overview of what drew you into the EdTech space and how you got the idea for boost?

And that really kind of started me into the technology space. What was really, I think fascinating about is I've just been interested in a lot of different things throughout life. So I did about five years in the technology space, and then decided, Hey, I was gonna go off to grad school. If I didn't do it, then it wasn't

going to happen. And I was lucky enough to be accepted in London School of Economics for a Midwest boy who'd spent all of his time in that space, it, you know, it was exciting, it was gonna be fun to get away. And it was going to be a really great opportunity to kind of challenge myself. And you know, I think I was thinking that maybe down the road, I would teach but it wasn't something that I was thinking top of mind was going

to happen immediately. But when I was getting out of my work at LSE, I did all my work in macroeconomic theory, economic history. But your university was looking for someone who had a very experiential learning system there. And they were looking for someone who had Tech experience, and could also teach the concepts classes and just kind of fit the mold into something interesting. And so I went back to Indiana joined the faculty at Butler University and

the lacy School of Business. And I was teaching their econ stats classes, like the horrible times of 8am, and 9am. And it's funny because I think teaching right now is actually very entrepreneur. And we don't always talk about it that way. But if you're a teacher in the classroom, and I think this is true, not just in higher education, but in K through 12

space as well. I mean, you basically have to be good at your specialty, you have to be good at teaching, you have to be really great at communication. And hey, you have to be really good at putting a bunch of different technology pieces together to make the classroom work and make that learning experience work. And that was really my first experience of

that. So this is 2013. Through 2018 that I was on the faculty there, I ended up getting pulled away from teaching a power because I was also at the same time running a small company called supply kick that as you mentioned, took off, we were selling on the Amazon marketplace working with brands as their logistics and marketing department store effectively. And we just exploded we were growing well from 2 million to almost 40 million in sales in

about three or four years. And so that took me away from teaching but I continue to have this little nugget in my head of one we can do a whole lot more to make the teaching experience and the learning experience more streamlined with all of these technology pieces that are going on and to just kind of, I think my long held belief that education really is kind of a

gateway. It is the thing that lets people who don't have all of the tools are all of the lucky breaks in life to be able to get to where they need to be get to where they deserve to be able to be and so that's kind of what pulled me back to it and so kind of long story short, and Pandemic happened. I had stepped away from supply kick got connected with Ben mots my co

founder of boost. He had been doing research on nudges and looking at trying to understand hey, how can we move the needle on student performance? Obviously the pandemic was starting to happen, and it was just kind of the perfect time for us to invest To boost and take a look at how we could move that technology and move that research forward.

the necessary steps. They don't perform the pieces, especially the logistic pieces to succeed and continue in their educational journey. You mentioned going from Indiana to London School of Economics, and having that kind of really exciting educational journey. So many students drop out, there's a huge attrition at the college level, especially community and junior colleges. Sometimes it's based on not being able to afford one textbook or missing

one assignment or one test. And this has been a problem for decades. So talk to us about how you hope that boost is going to reduce this type of student attrition.

on the number one problem. And it's exactly as you envisioned for students, it's not turning in their assignments, it's the number one predictor of if a student is going to do well in a class, and there's a whole number of risk flags that are also associated with turning in your assignments. And so we were focused on, can we get more students to turn in more assignments in the underlying

theory? And this kind of goes back to my teaching days at Butler as well as is, I think sometimes we just under appreciate how much we ask students not just in their classes and what's going on, but in life, what's going on, in the college environment, they're dealing with finances, they might have multiple jobs. And then, oh, as we've all been here, for the last two years, we've been dumped into a pandemic where health challenges already existed before this, but I mean, it's just been

heightened. So the journey is not what everyone expects it to be. And there's just a lot to try to keep track of, effectively what boost was going in, it was basically having, you know, we were looking at the students who were saying, hey, the theory isn't that they don't want to do the work, that they're frustrated or anything like that. It's that they probably do want to do the work,

but just life got in the way. So what if we could intervene and remind them of the things that they have upcoming and see what happens. And that's exactly what we did. And what's amazing about boost is if we send those notifications, boost sends those notifications via a standalone app that's available in both Google Play and the Apple app stores. Students download the app, they plug it into their

Canvas credentials. And then from there, it basically works in the background, if they are turning in their assignments, they're not going to get a bunch of notifications, because they're already doing the work. But if they haven't turned in their assignments, they're going to get those notifications, telling them, hey, you've got an upcoming assignment that you haven't yet submitted. And then also on the back end, after they've submitted assignments, we're giving them some positive

feedback. I think the amazing thing about what we saw in the research was, overall, we saw about a 6% increase in the number of students who would turn in any given assignments by getting these boost notifications. So that's a pretty big impact statistical impact when you multiply that across all your classes across a four year college experience and, and boost works in the K through 12. environment as well.

So in high school, middle school, but what was actually interesting to us in the research and why we were so excited if you took out the students who were already earning an A in a class, and there are students who will, if you give them 100 tools to use, they're going to use all one of your tools to try to do it,

that's great. But if you looked at only the students who were earning a B through an F in a class, and then they downloaded and started using post, that's where we really saw in that cohort, a really huge change a 15% increase in the number of students who were turning in their assignments, and then a 10%, resulting in a 10% increase in grades. That's a full letter

grade for those students. And that was incredibly exciting for us because I think it was confirming the underlying theory that we had on both of us as teachers in the classroom that, hey, these students really want to do the work. But there's just a lot of life that gets in the way. And that was really kind of the start of boost.

sense. You mentioned that boost integrates with a Canvas learning management system and that students log in using their Canvas credentials. Tell us about how Have you decided that and why that Canvas integration is important for boost?

kind of play in this space. And effectively, what we were trying to do is build a solution that was the lowest profile and the highest impact. And the theory around that was already asking students to do a lot. And so we know that there's going to be a barrier to entry with students downloading the app, we want to make it as simple, as intuitive, as straightforward as possible. And so kind of the easiest answer to that would be, well, what if we could use the data

that already exists? And what if we could plug in use that Canvas data to get not all but most of the information that a student needs in that given day. And so that was kind of the route that we went around it. And because of that, you know, I think we were able to get really fast success quickly. So as you mentioned, boost is available for any school right now. That is using Canvas LMS, as we continue to expand will expand to other LMS is we're in our

first year of operation. So we're going quickly after those schools that are already adopted Canvas, but the theory and the technology should work pretty seamlessly across any other LMS. As we go. I think the second thing that's interesting about what we were doing with boost in the way we were thinking about the problem was we really look at this data that exists within these LMSs. And as we all know, I mean, it's the backbone of a

class. It's the backbone of what that student journey looks like. And they are great, but they are cumbersome. And they're hard to manage and pay as a faculty member, sometimes you're trying your best, but you still set it up in the wrong way or press the wrong buttons or publish the wrong things. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's not the easiest process. And so we also built into boost a system for students to be able to upload and input

their own assignments. So if a faculty member didn't include it, and put it into Canvas, something like that. And that's where we're really excited because that is the start of I think, where we can start using student generated content within the class things that a faculty member might have missed or didn't input that is still do, and make sure that not just some of the students who were paying attention in class or who have their planner out, and we're writing that information down.

But if they're putting that information into boost as well, we can start using that to suggested out to other students in the class. And that's where we're going with boost and why we're really excited, we kind of look at it as well, if we can do a well, hopefully like an LMS on steroids, we're taking all of the really great parts of the LMS. And taking that student data, but also really adding in student generated content from that class to make that journey.

Really equitable for any student who's trying to do well in that class.

difficult systems to use. In some cases, you're adding value to the instructors as well, because you're allowing them to make to ensure that even if they are not canvas, Masters booths can fill the gaps and make sure that students are aware of all the assignments that are due and when throughout their semester. Is that right or your exec

infrastructure. So I think we're well aware of the limitations that exist for your typical faculty member trying to use an LMS. And for us, I think, as we were looking at boost, what we wanted to be able to do was build a solution that didn't need any additional faculty input, we're pulling the data out of the LMS as best as represented by what the faculty member or teachers put in there.

But what we want to do as we, you know, appended and make that information even better is not go to the faculty or the teacher and say, Okay, now you need to put in all this extra information that might be missing or that instead, we want to go straight to the students who already have a interest and

a need for that information. And I think, in doing so, hopefully, reducing the burden that exists on teachers and faculty, because right now, I mean, we're just asking, we're asking a lot of our students obviously, but we're asking a lot of our teachers day in, day out, and so we're hopeful that boost is a really smart solution that is helping students but also is doing so in a way adds literally no additional work for teachers and faculty members.

I can imagine it makes it very easy to start using boost, you can sort of just plug and play. And, you know, I wanted to ask a boost is offered free to K 12 and higher ed students and institutions. So I'd love to hear a little bit. You know, that's another way that it's easy to pick up. But talk to us a little bit about the business model. We have a lot of entrepreneur listeners, and we'd love to hear about how type of high growth No, no money upfront business models working.

itself has a lot of value. But as we all know, the selling cycle for procurement cycle for universities, for schools, it's tough. And you know, I think we were looking at the environments right now. And I think we certainly saw the value in boost, and what are we serving

right now. But given what was going on with COVID, and how these schools are trying to manage so many different things that are popping up, left and right during, during the semester during the school year, not just in the learning environment, and with teacher shortages and loss of learning and those types of things. But you know, just politically, things that are coming up that decision makers have to deal with, we wanted to make boost as easy of a decision as possible.

Because one, we knew the success of it. So we're very hopeful that once a school starts using it, they're obviously not going to want to take it away from the tool set that their students have available to them. And then to you know, I think we've looked at this with a long range view, which is we've got a tool that works with boost. And if we can create those relationships with universities, and with school systems, I think there's a lot of ways for us to monetize

that on the back end. And so what we've really looked at is two things in particular, one is reporting back to schools, on what's happening for a lot of teachers, they'll know exactly what's going on with a student in their class, but they don't necessarily know what's going on with their students across multiple classes. That boost is actually answering that question

already. Because we know if a student is missing assignment, not just in one class, but in multiple classes, over a given time period, we're really hopeful that we can create services and reporting back to schools to help make sure that they're able to intervene at the right time for students not down the road after midterms and grades, and that kind of thing, but in real time. So we're really excited about that, which we're hoping to test and rollout to schools that are working with

boost here soon. And then secondarily, as I'd mentioned, we acknowledge that there's a lot of things that students have to deal with. And we are trying to solve a very specific problem that is very important, their grades, and how they're doing in their classes. But there's a lot of other things that are

impacting that. So you know, in the college environment, for example, there's finances, how they're paying for school, there's tutoring, how they're learning outside of the classroom, there's Career Services, what they're going to do next, there's all these different, there's mental health, there's all these layers of things that matter, and at least our early data, what I think is interesting is we're starting to see signals of how we can not just use boost to intervene on a assignment that's

upcoming that they haven't yet submitted. But we can use boost to intervene on a number of other things that are happening in that school environment. And if we can connect them to the right tool, or the right outlet, or the right service, whether that's within the university, or the school, or an outside edtech SMART program that is really helping with tutoring, or really helping with career services or something like that. I think we can be the right conduit to

students that way as well. So we're taking a long view here, we've been really lucky, we've been expanding really quickly. Again, we're in our first year of operations, we've gone from one school to now being available in anyone from sixth grade up. We have sixth graders using boost we have doctoral students using boost, we have K through 12. Districts using it in many states across the United States. We've got universities, and we've got community colleges

using them. So we've been really excited by the pace of growth.

sense. It's really

to turn on assignments. And these are really impressive results that I imagine are very compelling for potential customers, you know, our listeners are always interested in this kind of efficacy or outcomes research that tells the real story of what's happening inside in a tech product, but also is very beneficial to the

growth of the product. So tell us a little bit more about the efficacy research behind boost, you know, how, how it was conducted, where it came from, and sort of how you got it to be able to be viable and shareable within your first year of operation? Yeah, well, it's

and a half. From there, we've had two peer reviewed and published papers on the efficacy of boost, we've done both small scale five classroom, look at boost, specifically against announcements, for example,

within class. So what does a faculty member saying to students versus what is boosting to students, and then we were also able to expand it not just from what boost was doing in itself, but also some of the other things that we do within the app, which is, I think I briefly mentioned what we call positive feedback. But effectively, it's sending a notification to a student after they've turned in assignments

saying, well done nice work. And even there, we've been able to do some research on what's the best path forward there? Are those messages better if their value messages, you're on track for graduation, you know, long range, or should they be praised messages. And we've statistically found this praise messages are much more successful students actually perform better when they get a little message afterwards that

just says, nice work. You know, what's funny about that is if you just kind of take a step back, even out of the research, and you just kind of think about that in your own life. The truth is, we all want that, we all want to know that the effort that we put into something is

valued. And I think one of the very tough things about the educational environments, I think has been always kind of a part of what education looks like in America is there can be really long delays between when a student is being asked to do the work. And then the feedback that they're getting. That

obviously makes sense. I mean, I've been I've taught, it takes a long time to grade, even when you're really organized and you say, Hey, I'm gonna turn things around in two days, life happens for you as a teacher, it's, it's a lot to manage. And the truth is, there's a lot that we can be doing, from a technology side, to use what we know works in E commerce and use what we know works in the online environment.

And hey, in a social environment, what the students are constantly getting on Tiktok, and Instagram and expectations of how things should work there, if we can start to implement some of those type of things in the educational environment in a smart, controlled, researched way to make sure that they're actually effective. I think that we're making life better for both students and for faculty members. And I think obviously, that's what we've been able to share with our research at

boost. One of the things I'll just mention is we have those reports up and available for anyone who wants to read them, you can see them on our website, it's www dot Koozai dot education. And if you'd like to read through those reports, we've made them available there. So you can take a look

background. So the idea that boost is based on existing research that it builds on existing research, and then you have the infrastructure in place to do immediate research on its efficacy and even nuances of its efficacy, like what types of messages, you know, make a difference value versus praise. I think that's one of the big advantages that comes from starting an edtech company from within a university. It's very

interesting. We've talked to a few founders on this show, who were professors who spun out products that they had made are tested within their campuses into wider products. And I think this is one of the really very clear benefits of product development coming through the academic route.

lucky in the timing. I mean, listen, it is not easy to take a technology based on research that's happening within a university system and to Do a tech transfer out a half so that as a standalone business, and we were lucky that we had good partners at Indiana University, they were interested in doing that they saw the value, you know, obviously, within in his research, I mean, just all starred in what he was able to

accomplish there. And you're exactly right, that we were smart enough to kind of build that research into the platform, in fact, you know, continues to be an important part of what we're doing. As I mentioned, we've expanded to the K through 12 environments. So students in middle school and high school, sixth, sixth grade and up, can also use boost if a school activates boost on their campus. And kind of keeping in the tradition of boost, we want to

do that research there. And so we've been partnering with WG you labs to do a replicate some of the research that we've done in the higher education space into the K through 12. space as well, which has been really exciting for us. Because boost has, I kind of always joke, as a business leader, I kind of came kicking and screaming into the K

through 12. Market, not because I didn't think boost could work there I did in from my political background and those type of things, I want to see as many tools that can help students in that space be implemented there. But just the reality of when you're running a small business, and you're trying to expand into both the University market and the K through 12. Market, I mean, it's really easy to get

stretched thin. But you know, we have some really smart advisors who were kind of telling us, I think that this is really going to be a homerun in the K through 12. environment, I think that they understand the use case of boost intimately. And that was true. And it has been true for us as well. And so we've been really excited by how quickly, you know, we've been able to expand into that space as well. And again, that wouldn't have happened if if we didn't have that fast tech transfer process

with IU. So you're exactly right, that I think it is certainly been advantageous for us to have had this research from the start and to have had a playground at one school where we were able to see what are the parts of booths that work? And, frankly, what are the parts that didn't add in them before we went to market? Right?

campuses. So I'm sure that that also smooths the transition, when schools find out that it integrates smoothly with Canvas that I'm sure makes it much easier to implement. And your business model being sort of Freemium or you know, no money upfront, obviously works with the school procurement cycles. And to get a you can sort of sidestep some of the complexities of having to have contracts in place as it starts. So all of those factors seem to come together to to feed into boost growth.

think of their tech stack. And so, you know, I think what we were thinking about boost was, hey, we don't want to try to replace that we don't want to stand completely on our own, I think you do have to be in this environment today tethered to at least one, if not more of those in a meaningful, useful way.

And, you know, the relationships that we had with some of the executives that instructorship certainly helped us both test and expand, you know, more quickly than we would have otherwise, which I think has been great. And, you know, this is an environment now where I think these LMSs they are kind of the behemoths in the space. And so I think, from a business perspective, you have to either kind of address from the start, well, how do you work with them? Or how do you replace them?

Right, but there's kind of no, I don't think that there's much ground in the middle to be able to operate. And certainly boost has taken the, you know, the tact of, you know, how do we work with them? And how do we do that in a really useful, I think thoughtful way that isn't trying to replicate tools or things that they're already doing on our platform. What I think is great about boost is these are unique things that you can't get

within the Canvas ecosystem. And that's why we are a really great add on for any school that is using

boost. It leverages some of the concepts both of psychology you mentioned sort of your long track thinking, value thinking versus praise, and some behavioral economics which is it has found over the years that you know, people don't always act rationally, but relatively small reminders can sort of get them back on track or small interventions can impact

behavior in big ways. And you know, some of this research was popularized a few years ago with Cass Sunstein and Richard Taylor's book nudge, you mentioned the word nudge earlier in the in this interview. And there's been work by your colleague, Ben moths, as well as UVA Professor Ben Castleman and others about how you can use text messaging, or Instagram style phone communications, to get people to actually pursue the things that I really want to

accomplish. So, you know, because you have both of education background and an economics background, I have thought about this a lot, I'd love to hear a little bit about your thoughts just sort of on the broader concept of using text to drive behavior, both in assignments, and as you said, within finance, or mental health or any of those topics,

and steal it at all times. And that's what education is competing with, you know, in today's environment for the students. And so, you know, I think it's a tough thing, because, you know, a video of, I don't know, your friends, doing something funny is always going to be more entertaining and more interesting than the biology or the economics, you know, the math work that you need to do.

But it doesn't mean that we can't take some of those things that make social media sticky, and work and interesting, and apply them over to the educational environment in a more robust and thoughtful way. And I think, frankly, the education space has been really, really behind on this. And that's partly because of the way that it's built. It's very

decentralized. And we do give a lot of freedom to teachers, faculty members to kind of control what it looks like in their class, what tools they use, what that experience looks like. But I think that really, for us to be successful in education in the long run, we have to be using all the tools at our disposal. And, you know, I think what our hope is, is that boost is, is one of those, you know, is, is helping do that in a really smart, thoughtful

and interesting way. You know, I mean, I think the thing that I would just say that's connected to that, that's always kind of a limiting factor is, hey, when you're talking about students, and we're talking about student data, like there are very real privacy concerns, there are very real ways in which you use that

data that really do matter. And, you know, I think, again, we were very lucky that starting boost within the educational environment at Indiana University, we were building it from the start of saying, is this something that you would purchase? And that means not just is it built in a way that students want? It can work, but also it means? Is it secure? And are we within obviously, FERPA guidelines, all those types of

things? But also, are we using student data in right appropriate ways that would pass muster with security checks. And, you know, we built all of that into boost from the start. And I think that that's kind of the hard thing, obviously, for edtech companies right now is it's not that there's not a great number of ideas for how we can take things that happened within the social environment and bring it into education.

It's how do you do that in a way that is both gets the job done, but is also thoughtful and respectful of student privacy data concerns in what's needed there. But I think boost is honestly we've been very lucky to be, hopefully a really good model. And that's both because of how we were started. But I think how we think about the problem. Yeah, it strikes

But by thinking from the start about how data can be secure and can be shared only with the people that should see it, it feels like you are setting the groundwork to be able to move towards different types of data and be able to truly have a system that benefits both students and instructors in a number of different ways and get life out of the way for for students all over the country.

And, you know, personally, I am always really obsessed with the the community college system because it's this enormous system that is lower cost really trying to affect social mobility. But the students in it are the ones who have the most life in the way as you know, they they're much more likely to have jobs they're much more likely to be to have have family obligations or to have children. And that's exactly the type of people who really need this type

of technology. So I, on a personal note, I hope that boost and products that have this type of efficacy are really put in front of that student group you met. started that? Yeah, please talk more about it.

here in just our first year. And it is definitely a market instead of schools and students that I think boost can really make a difference in and you know, it's funny, because one of the things that I think, just kind of connecting the these last two topics, what we built into booths from the start is basically an opt in system. So kind of the first question we get from schools is like, Well, why don't you integrate directly

into Canvas? And the answer is because, well, not every student wants notifications sent to their phone. And we know that our notifications are effective, which is why it's a standalone app, we, we do want as many students to download as possible. But frankly, we don't want every single student, we don't want students who aren't going to use it to download it. It's that's not terribly useful

to us. And frankly, I'm getting, you know, a bunch of notifications that you don't actually want isn't useful to students as well. And so you know, those are things that we've actually built in and thought about in the building of boost. And it's also the reason that within the app, even after you download it, we give students 100% control of all of their notification preferences. And so effectively, you can go into boost, and you can get

notifications. Just because you download, it doesn't mean that you get notifications for every single class, you can turn on and off classes. And then within those classes, you can turn on and off different types of notifications. And in that way, we've tried to make it very intuitive, I think we have made it very easy and very intuitive. But it goes back to that theory of how can we give students more control of what they need to be

successful in. And obviously, we have defaults based on student usage to get the maximum out of boost. But we're still really easily giving students I think that control to be able to turn things on and off. And you know, as we've often seen, from a lot of students is they have three or four classes, one of those classes is difficult. The other two classes, they know the faculty member, maybe they don't have as much assignments in the first place, they kind of know

what's going on. So they'll turn off boosts notifications for those classes. But then for the one class, that's the one that has 2530 assignments, there's a lot going on, they don't always know exactly what's happening there. That's where they're really getting the maximum usage

boost. And I think that type of flexibility built into the system is really attractive, especially when you were talking about community colleges, where you're talking about students who have not just a singular view of what an educational environment looks like, but is I think, looking at education and saying, hey, yeah, we want to acknowledge that the students have a lot on their plate. And a lot of it isn't even school, a lot of it is life and family and work and kids. That's a lot to

manage. And so I think the tools that are really successful right now are the ones that I think acknowledge that are thinking about that and are trying to build their design in a way that delivers the maximum impact with as little tension and friction as possible. And hopefully, that's, you know, I think one of the things we've been able

out. Or, you know, it's a type of product where even though it's sort of installed by the institution at heart, I think students feel a lot of ownership, they feel like they found it, they're using it. And it's sort of something that that is their personal sort of vitamin to make sure that they can actually get their assignments in on time. It doesn't feel like a tool that sort of coming directly out of the out of the institutional ecosystem.

range. And that is because we very early on made a few decisions that said, hey, boost is going to be something that stands outside of any individual school, it's going to be the same type of experience if you're using it as a middle schooler, or as a college students, but what's going to be unique about it is that it is very highly tailored to you and wherever you are, and that's certainly on the technology

side. There's a tension in how you still have to manage that but I think that's been really fun for us because As you know, as you mentioned, we, we have seen that students, you know, just recently, we had a school that did a, a university in Georgia, and they did a survey of their students who were using boost. And, you know, over 70% of the students found that it was useful, and they wouldn't encourage a friend to use it. I mean, those are just, those are fun things for us to see that

boost. Because, you know, I think that means that we're doing something that's obviously helping students. And as I kind of always joke, you know, listen, boost is on our best days, we're going to be helping students do their work, you know, it's not going to be the number one app that they're going to like, say, Oh, this is the most exciting thing, or I'm so happy to get to use this, but they are going to appreciate it because it's making their life a

little bit better. And that's a pretty cool space for us to be in right now. It really

data? And how do we give it back to students in a way that is really actionable and give students control of that data? And I think that that's, that's like a really cool, and high impact space, where people are really, I think, trying to think a little bit more honestly about how, you know, how can you create change there, that's been fun for me to engage in and see,

here today? So we've covered a lot of topics today. So what would be one book that you would recommend for our listeners? Well, honestly,

just really fun to see. And I would say for anyone who's in the space of looking at how do you not just do you implement boosted your school or something like that. But how do you think about real tangible ways that you can make a small change in the daily habit of a student and seeing big results that last over time? I mean, some of the reports that we have on our websites are just really good food for thought on that as

well. So again, I think I'd kind of send you to read some of those reports that Ben has had published, because it's really exciting. And not not only did it give birth to boost, but I think it is smart in the space of how do we change student performance for the better and do so in the most direct ways that we can.

as well. And sounds like boost is really making a difference for students of all ages.