Figma for Education: Making Design Accessible for All with Lauren McCann

We also conduct in depth interviews with a wide variety of Edtech thought leaders and bring you insights and conversations from ed tech conferences all around the world. Remember to subscribe, follow and tell your ed tech friends about the podcast and to check out the Edtech Insiders substack newsletter. Thanks for being part of the Ed Tech insiders community enjoy the show. Lauren McCann is the head

of Figma for Education. She started her career in the classroom as a middle school English teacher in Hyderabad, India. Before joining figma Lauren also led product marketing for Google's core education products, including Google Classroom, Google meet Google workspace for education, which includes Docs, Slides, Sheets, forms drive and jam board, as well as Google assignments read along and more at figma. Lauren and her education team are working to bring figma into more classrooms

globally. Lauren McCann, Welcome to EdTech insiders.

school arts classes. And so after college, I actually had the amazing opportunity to get to teach abroad for a year in India, like you mentioned, through the Fulbright Program. It was honestly like the best year of my life, I had like 250 students across four classes, so a lot of students in each class. But it was so remarkable to get to see these students grow and learn over time. And really, that was kind of the first time I had seen the role that technology could play in the

classroom. And so that got me really interested to know a little bit more about that, which is ultimately how I wound up after that experience going to Google where I worked on the Google for Education Team for many years. When I was at Google, I oversaw products like Google Classroom, Google workspace, Google, meet Google Drive, Docs, Slides, really everything that kind of sits on the software side of the house

for edu. And that was a super interesting time I was there from 2017 to 2021, which, as you guessed, fell right in there with the kind of onset of remote learning and so got to see some absolutely tremendous growth happened at Google. Also quite a few, you know, mishaps here and there, because obviously, the products were not designed for remote learning. I don't think anyone any school, any teacher was prepared for that, let alone our technology was prepared for that. But yeah, that was really

interesting time. And happy to talk more about that. But ultimately, through that time, Google for Education became, you know, a really large business or

really mature business. And so there were a lot of people on my team who had been there from the very early days, you know, they talk about, oh, when we had our first school, or when we went to our first SD, and I was always sitting there being like, oh, man, I am kind of curious what that would be like to have that experience of starting something

from scratch. So around that time, about two and a half years ago, figma reached out to me and wanted to start an education team somewhat similar to what Google had started. And so yeah, now I get to lead that team and really help focus on supporting the next generation of great makers here at figma. So yeah, that's a bit about my background. Do you want me to talk a little bit about how teaching informs my perspective?

right? I mean, Google Classroom became during your time there, one of the biggest tools being used in classrooms everywhere in the country and the world. And figma is such a powerhouse in the UX and design world. Tell us a little bit about how you're starting with teaching and moving into tech. And then not just tech but scale Tech. enormous Tech with these big tech companies. Yeah,

So, you know, for me, when I was teaching in India, my classroom as you could expect, was very different, maybe than the environment of the classes I grew up in, go to public school here in the US, you know, I had the 750 students that I think we had 10 computers in the computer lab, and they were all from,

like, the 90s. And, you know, it was interesting, even with those very limited devices, and very limited moments of interaction with tech, it was so incredible, to see how quickly my students were able to adapt, and see how powerful the technology could be

for them. You know, a lot of my students had never even seen a tablet, but I remember we got this grant to create the first like, tab lab, and my student is going into that room for an hour week, you know, they would jump at the opportunity, they'd rapidly find new ways to use them on their own to take their

learning to new heights. And so it kind of really primed me for this question, when I was evaluating what's next of like, how can we create accessible equitable tools, regardless of what a school has, or doesn't have, and try to minimize barriers to entry. And so that's why, you know, Google, I feel like has done such an amazing job of that over the last two decades, you know, widening the tentpole on how students can participate in technology, how

they can engage with it. And, yeah, it's so amazing to work at a place like Google, because every little thing you're working on, you're like, Oh, God, like this is good. In fact, like hundreds of millions of students literally, which is just like, with great power comes great responsibility. And that was really, really interesting. But it almost felt to me, like the biggest contrast between my experience at these like scaled ad tech companies versus at teaching with teaching, it felt like going

really deep. With few verses at Google, it was going very shallow, with many, and kind of oscillating between those two levels of impact was really interesting. And now thigma, I feel like I'm kind of somewhere in the middle, you know, where I'm like, going really deep with a small subset of teachers as we're just getting started. And it's really, really cool to kind of be at that deeper intersection of impact at this point.

it's very relevant to work. Tell us about, you know, as you're starting up this whole figma for education set of initiatives, you know, what are you doing to break down these barriers to empower students to give people this sense of, you know, empowerment around design, regardless of their background? Or you know, how they're coming into this situation?

great question. And, you know, fundamentally gets to our mission, you know, we want to make sure that every child, you know, no matter where they're born, where they go to school, what they have access to, that they are able to contribute to the future of technology, and they're able to help shape the future of what this increasingly digital world looks like, you know, whether it's my students back at my class in India, or the students at the really nice prep school down the street from

me in Brooklyn, we want to make sure that every student has access to the best tools in the world, because honestly, intelligence is equally distributed, but opportunity is not. And so we want to make sure that we never are something that's that's creating those barriers, and in fact, work really actively to try and tear them down. You know, speaking more to design specifically, as an industry, it's kind of been hard to break into for a long

time. You know, number one, software was really expensive. It cost you hundreds of 1000s of dollars a year. Even our CEO when he was first designing figma was like pirating software, because he was just, you know, a college student, it didn't have money to pay for it. You know, second of all, you needed access to really expensive computers and devices

to run that software. And then maybe even further down the line, you needed access to robust classes, and maybe some really fancy extracurriculars to learn how to use it, like even for me growing up, I attended a really nice public high school in Rhode Island. It was like the best public high school in the state. But our computer class like the only computer class we had was type A, you know what I mean? So I never even knew what design was or would have thought

to see myself in that space. And so to really try to get at each of those three things. There's there's a few things figma does like number one, we make everything completely for free. Like you mentioned, no hidden fees, no upgrades. We kind I see this as one of the best ways that our company can fulfill our mission and making design accessible to everyone. And by everyone, we really mean everyone. The second way that we really fulfill on this is by

making figma available. It's browser based technology, you know, it's based in the web. And so my students not to keep talking about them. But I do love that which swag you talking about that, you know, they have a computer from the 90s. And they're running figma on it, which is amazing. And so no matter what device you have access to whether that's a fancy MacBook at your school, or a low end Chromebook, you can get

started. And you know, we've also heard from a lot of schools that previously, the kids could only do stuff in the computer labs, they were locked into doing stuff only when they were at school, and they couldn't continue to let their creativity run wild at home. And so making it available on the browser is super important. And we think a really good way to break down

those barriers. And then the last thing, kind of forget, at that point about courses, and how you learn to use it is we're doing a lot to try to make our free trainings and workshops available for students, schools and educators, we've created loads and loads of templates to try to give folks an accessible

starting point. And yeah, I mean, really, this all boils down to the fact that we just believe learning design matters, you know, I think a lot of people think about design is like, ah, you know, making a rectangle or making something look really pretty, and it's not about that it can be about so much more, you know, we think it's essential for every student to learn the basics of design, because it's, it's about visual communication, it's about helping them be better problem

solvers, more empathetic people, and help them really just build up those skills that will translate no matter what type of job or whatever the future looks like, as it's increasingly shifting, you know, under our feet, it seems like every single day, yeah,

And that's really important. We talked to all sorts of different folks on this podcast, including a lot of edtech companies. And I think one thing that jumps out to me and is really, really exciting, is figma is a very cutting edge company was started by a very young person who has sort of a little bit of history, but you know, also a little bit of an educational rebel in certain ways. Yes, I'll pass it to you to tell that story just a

second. But just in terms of like, it's a very modern, I would say almost, you know, futuristic company in so many different ways. It's online, it's collaborative, it has this fig jam product, which I'd love you to sort of explain that to the listeners who may not know about that. And the idea of having this incredibly modern cutting edge useful, relevant tool that people can use, either for their own projects or for portfolio projects, being accessible to schools, is really

big news. And instead, let's go all the way back to first principles a little bit for people who may not have used figma. Tell us a little bit about you know, what a little bit of the origin of the famous story, what figma is, how it's grown so big and what fig jam is, in particular? Because I think that's a big core to some of your educational strategy.

different ideas. And they kind of landed on this, this idea of, you know, like, what if we made it easier to take the ideas that live into your head, and to make them real online, and kind of from that point on figma was born, the story goes, actually, that figma comes from figment of your imagination. And so how do you take what lives in your

head? And how do you make that real and share that with the world and kind of leave your mark and make your little dent in the universe, as they like to say, and so yeah, that's kind of how figma started. Initially, our main bread and butter product was figma design, which is where the name comes from. And you know, over time, we've grown up really to become sort of like the industry standard for UX and UI for product design for for things like designing

apps and websites. And so, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, you know, I've never I've never heard of figma. But the reality is, is you've probably interacted every single day with different apps and online experiences that were created on figma. So I always tell people, you know, did you listen to Spotify this morning? You know, that was designed on figma. Did you open Google Classroom this morning that was designed on figma? Did you look at Airbnb for the holidays that was

assigned on figma? I mean, so it's been really, really cool to see how much figma design has really unlocked the ability for people to create things online together and create amazing new experiences and products. And then about a year and a half ago, Mike, my team might correct me but we started working on this product called Big jam and released it to GA a little over a year and a half ago. And fig jam is really just this amazing collaborative surface for creating things with your team.

It's like kind of in the whiteboard category, I would say and this is the product that a lot of schools have been really excited about working with class on really just to create that more open collaborative Canvas for students to do things like brainstorming, icebreakers, ideating. And really just making

learning more visual. So a lot of schools that, especially, I've been bummed about the Google jam board news, which ironically, is a product that used to cover have been moving over to fig jam to kind of replace that need for a collaborative whiteboard canvas. think Jim

week in my actual work. So are you seeing that transition starting to happen with high school and college students?

there. But, you know, at the same time, I think a lot of schools are looking at, okay, what type of tools can I teach my students that are going to have a lifelong impact on them, you know, nothing against some edtech tools, but a lot of them are actually not really something you're going to

continue to use as an adult. And so I think a lot of schools are starting to question why not invest in something that has a really long shelf life that my students that will carry my students from their time in the classroom into the workforce, and in fact, even give them a leg up that will allow them to stand out from other candidates.

And so teaching to students, these like industry standard tools that fit really nicely in the classroom, while at the same time teaching them skills that will carry them for the rest of their life, or at least, you know, early in their career. So

important. See, I definitely agree with that first point, I think, to your question about what people are using whiteboarding for, you know, there's the very obvious use cases of like, you know, very sorry, ideating, things like that, I'd say the things that have surprised us a little bit more about fate, Jim, is first and foremost about how it's kind of created this inclusive space for students to collaborate to

contribute to be heard. You know, we've heard from a lot of teachers, especially that with this kind of like generation of kids that maybe missed out on some core, like social emotional learning and social development, that a lot of them are more shy in class than they've ever had before that they're maybe not as willing to contribute as they

wouldn't raise their hand. And so a lot of them have been surprised that by starting and fig jam, the students see this as a safe space where they can start to build that confidence. So for example, with big jam, we have this thing called like stamps, where people can put like a little heart or a little star, and a lot of teachers tell us like, yeah, I have some really shy kids, I can't get them to participate. I can't get them to engage. But then we

started fig jam. And you know, they added a couple of sticky notes here. And then maybe a kid threw them a heart and they were like, oh, oh, wow, suddenly, I think this Alex person threw me a heart, maybe, maybe on Alex's I should leave a comment. And then they start having a little comment thread. And before you know it, these kinds of like seedlings of like a digital connection, blossom into these

real life friendships. And it's been really cool to hear about teachers how they've used it to, to create, like classroom culture, and to build confidence with their students. So I think that's kind of like an unexpected use case we've seen with fig jam. Another use case that we've we've heard from teachers that maybe is a bit more expected is around how it can create more engaging and visual spaces, especially for

differentiated learners. You know, there's some kids that they're going to be great at the essays, they're going to be great at the math problems. Sounds like I was that kid, honestly, like I was such a nerd, like, I just wanted to write my essay of like, not how to do creative. But as a teacher, myself, I know there are so many different types of intelligences, so many different ways that students can show you

what they know. And by just showing them one typical form of assessment, you're not always going to see that and they're not always going to feel that they can showcase that to you. And so with fig jam, it's an amazing to see how students who have, you know, maybe they want to show you a timeline, maybe they want to create an infographic, maybe they want to do a drawing, there's just so many other ways that it allows

them to kind of be flexible. And then the other use case a lot of teachers are using it for kind of going back to the point about there being over so many edtech tools is that a lot of teachers tell us that they are sending their kids on these like 20 tab tangos every day, you know, they'll send them to like five videos and three articles and 10 links. And by the time they get to seventh period, they're poor. Fifth graders have like 42 tabs open. And so teachers are looking for a way to like

consolidate that. And so a lot of them are using fake gem to be this cohesive, single tab, one tab learning cohesive place of truth where they can put in an article for a student to read and then they'll put stickies for them to react to it. And then maybe they'll do a vote in the class then maybe they'll do some drawing. And it's really just that you can even incorporate things like Google Docs or flip videos and things

like that. And so we've heard from a lot of teachers that you know, wallow is intended as a whiteboard for those more classical use cases. They're actually using it as their cohesive learning space for their class.

crazy pandemic era. And there just have not been that many spaces for kids to connect, a lot of students have been in and out of school for various reasons, schools have been shutting down or opening up or changing in all sorts of ways. So this idea of a collaborative space, where people can sort of dip their toe in the water, if they're not being called on in front of a classroom in the same, you know, classic way, they're in a space with many

other students. And they can drop you know, a word or like you say, a stamp of a heart or a smiley, and it just do the tiniest little bit of interaction. And it's a way to sort of bring people out of their shells, have them feel like they're collaborating and start that communication that is such an interesting and surprising, I find it surprising, you know, use of collaborative tooling, but it

makes sense, it makes sense. I mean, as somebody who's run a lot of design thinking sessions on these type of tools, you do get people really sort of jumping in and writing posts and doing things, even if they don't want to speak in an actual call, they're often very, very active, you know, you see their mouse going everywhere, and you see them typing, doing lots of things. So that's really

exciting. And I'm sure the educators listening to this are nodding their heads and saying, you know, that makes a lot of sense, what a great way to bring

people out. So there's a sort of mental health wellness side of this than this is learning preferences side, there are students who want to do things in text, they want to write essays, they're, you know, nerdy, quote, unquote, or they want to, you know, be presenting with a poster boards, but there's also students who think very visually, they prefer to learn and to communicate in a visual way, especially in this, you know, era of Instagram and

Tiktok. And so the idea that people that students can choose, you know, a visual medium to communicate with each other, and a visual medium with lots of, you know, infinite space and all these different layers, that's really exciting. And then third, this idea of sort of information overload, I used to work with an engineer who did one tab Tuesday thing or one day, only, themselves to have one tab open, because you know, those 42 tabs

is not just for students. But that idea of fig jam being the single central place where all of the different materials that a teacher is sharing, or that students are sharing with each other, whether they're videos, or docs, or notes, or, you know, links to, you know, out to other things that you need to save. So here are three very different but all very powerful use cases for this fifth Gen product, would you want to build more on I'm sure I'm leaving lots of stuff out here

contribute and share. And so we were really surprised by that, you know, just because the way that we see it being used in professional settings, is actually quite different than it is in the classroom. And, you know, we had won that sense of how it's being used in the workplace. And teachers and students are just so infinitely creative with what they come back with is just so different than what we would have

expected. So I'd say that, you know, that piece of creating class community of helping students feel seen, helping students feel heard, that was something that not only surprised us, but also like, really, really warmed our hearts. I can

the same page together. One thing I'd love to ask more about, you know, this transition to work thing is fascinating to me, you mentioned how teachers get excited about tools that have a relatively natural transition to authentic use cases. So it's not that you're, you know, spending time in a tool that's pure ed tech, where it's like, it can be very powerful for Ed Tech. But as soon as you graduate from you know, eighth grade or high school, you're never probably

going to use it again. And certainly never in a professional setting. That is not an alternative. I mean, it is the industry standard. So I'm curious how you're seeing teachers sort of embrace that, like, are they asking students to do you know, hands on projects or portfolio pieces? Or, you know, how are educators reacting to the fact that they're able to use a professional quality industry standard tool in the classroom?

for my classroom. So I would say like with figma design, that's where more some of our teachers have seen like, Okay, this is really the industry standard for product design for web design for things like that. And yeah, they're having their students build amazing things like apps and websites, and all of those

types of things. And yeah, so we've heard from teachers who, you know, they've partnered up with their local government to redesign like the parking app for their town, we've heard of teachers designing apps with their students about AI safety and, and how students can safely use that emerging technology. So a lot of different things like that. But with big jam, I think sometimes it's, it's really just to mimic what they're doing in the class and just make it more

engaging more visual. In that way.

fields. But it's interesting to me to hear that some teachers know that and are like, you're getting access to this amazing tool, build an app, you know, if you're a 10th grader, build an app build something, you can design a website that looks professional, because you're using the tools that are out there, and others may say, Well, this is like you said, this is our new whiteboarding tool, I

can still do amazing things. But I'm not necessarily thinking about the sort of industry connection, it's it's really interesting to hear, I'd love to actually dig into that a little bit, just because we've been thinking a lot on this show. And I've been thinking a lot in general about this sort of transition from school to work, and how to really help people understand what the future of their day to day life might look like, and how it relates to what

they do in school. Because traditionally, there was a huge gap. I mean, schooling and work, were really not considered the same world. But more and more, you know, as people do have access to really amazing tools. And as they're communicating in ways that are not that different. People use Slack in classrooms, and they use Slack. And where there's a lot of interesting overlap happening. I'd love to hear just more about your sort of philosophy going

forward. It's like, what might figma for education want to do over time to sort of help the educator world understand that? Yes, it's an infinite canvas. It's a whiteboard. That's amazing. But you're also getting access to like, a tool that is literally being like the go to tool for UX designers, for app designers, for web designers all over the world. Like that's kind of a big deal. And I wonder if there's a way for educators to sort of understand that better, because they're not in that

world? They're not professional designers. But how might figma support that understanding of the fact that this is a tool that is not just an edtech? tool? It's a professional tool?

of it. I think, honestly, that the problem, Alex is that like, the teacher world is so separate, in some ways than the tech world. You know, it's funny, we like thigma is so well known in the tech world that most startups and things like that, I'll tell people and we're gonna make money, and they'll know what that is. But then you go into a classroom setting, and you say, oh, fit gym, and they're like, oh, doesn't that

go on, and she's bored. And so we're really new to the space and kind of entering it for the

very first time. And so I think, you know, it's just gonna be a matter of connecting with teacher communities, and kind of just helping them better understand this idea of why not choose a leading tool that's going to be used by professionals and help your students get that leg up, you know, if it's going to be an effective tool to help your students for teaching and learning if it's gonna be helpful for you, as a teacher, why not go that route? When you have the option? Yeah, it also

that you can imagine. Salesforce training is one of the best things you could possibly give a graduate because it gives them access to 1000s and 1000s of different jobs. jobs. And yet very, very few, you know, colleges or high schools, whatever consider you know, Salesforce training is something

that is on their radar. And it's exciting to me that, you know, you're now at your second huge tech company that is making major major inroads into classrooms so that people can make that transition very smoothly, the same way that students who are using Google Classroom and knowing how to do commenting, you know how to do, you know, insert all the different pieces of a Google Doc or a Google slide or Google Sheet, it's like, well, they are going to be doing that for years

of their career as well, that is a figment as well, it's very exciting. Yeah,

inherently visual. And I think by leaning into this, you know, students, they can work on their complex problem solving their collaboration skills, their creative expression, skills that every student, you know, whether they do become a designer, or they become an engineer, or they become a financial analyst, or anything that will help serve them into the future. So I think working on tools that can help students build those future ready skills, that's something we care a lot about. Yeah,

AI and figma. And fig jam already have aI features built in. But tell us a little bit about your philosophy about AI, how you seen it, in terms of it being used in figma? And the educational potential of AI generally? Yeah,

education. I think one of the things that I find so excited about it, and I'm really positive and bullish on AI is, you know, one of the things that's most exciting is that historically, the education system at large is really focused on this idea of like the final product, you know, the essay, the test, and I think AI has really forced all of us to reevaluate, how are we actually assessing learning, understanding and mastery, you know, when a bard or a chat UBT can produce the same essay that

you've been using for 15 years with your students, I think it's time to look back at what it is that we're assessing, and how students can show us what it is that they know. And so I think teachers are having this moment of trying to figure out okay, not only do I maybe need to change my assessments, but how can I go back and start to value the process, not just the end

product. And so a lot of teachers have been using fig jam for that, you know, these, you can really show every step of that process, you can do it in collaboration with others, you can show how you've iterated over time, you know, so maybe as a teacher, you would have assigned your students and Sal like, the Eiffel Tower or something like that. And then maybe instead of just looking for that five paragraph essay, at the end, you ask them to do

some exercises in fig jam. You know, they brainstorm on stickies about which topics they want to dive into. Then they map out and collect their research. They start putting their learnings in there, they draw connections with diagrams with timelines, maybe their final product is like, you know, an infographic or something more visual, I think, just with AI, it's going to force us to look at like, yes, the final products is important, but it's not the

only thing. There's so much learning that happens in between. And then in terms of like, how we're thinking about it, we just announced about two or three weeks ago, our kind of first foray into the AI world. Yeah, we can, you know, generate templates for you. We can summarize stickies, we can categorize stickies. You know, we're still trying to figure out exactly the right way to bring that to market for education in a way that is like safe and compliant with student data

privacy. So we're still trying to figure that out for education, but I think you could have with AI, you know, the best gym partner in the world, you know, they never get tired of you. They can clean up your work, how to communicate your ideas, more specifically, you know, help frame your material in a way that's going to feel more personalized to you. So yeah, overall, super promising.

I think on our side, we're still exactly trying to figure out the right way to safely and appropriately introduce it to classrooms. But overall, I think the gym can be a way to step in as an intermediary step as teachers are trying to figure out what it is that they're going to continue to assess in the classroom.

schools. But actually, there are a lot of tricky underlying pieces. And you know, the security has to come first. I know you're being very careful. And that's exactly the right approach for sure. That said, I really I admire and I'm fascinated by this idea of

process over product. And the new version of you know, quote, unquote, showing your work, you know, used to be that you have to cite your sources, or show your notes or show the, you know, the steps you did in an equation in the margin of your math test. But in a world of fig gym, showing your work could literally be let me show you all the different things that I brought together my whole thought process, all the brainstorming all the

collaboration. Here's the Google Doc, here's everything, all four drafts, and right next to my final product. So that's exciting. It's an exciting way to get past that academic integrity question in AI that people still get a little bit caught up on. We've talked to a few different academic integrity, folks on the podcast, we've talked to honor lockup, and I got to interview the CPO

have turned it in. What's so funny is that even within that academic integrity world, they don't want to be the barriers to people using AI, they still think that there's a lot of potential there. And they want to be part of the revolution, not not, you know, holding it

back. So I like what I'm hearing about how you're thinking about it, and figma collaborative tools and other visual tools might be a really great direction for the future of what homework might look like, or what AI generated collaboration might look like. What's interesting is that, you know, one version of academic integrity is that you can actually show all the work, you could show the data, you can show all the thinking in a way that can actually get past some

of this, this worry. Mm hmm. I think that's really what the future of education and worker almost definitely going to look like. Yeah,

And as a student, your learning experience was very static, you'd zero input, you kind of just take things in. And then I think, with the early 2000s, with the introduction of Google Apps for Education, and G Suite, you know, students went from being siloed on these physical pieces of paper to like breaking into this digital world where they, you know, could actually

collaborate together. And I think this introduction of collaborative tools, they're really starting, they had the chance to kind of like dip their toe in the water, and inform their own learning and be a bit more of an active participant. You know, I even remember myself in high school, the first time we used Google Docs together, just like seeing everyone fly around the page, like that was such a magical moment and felt so different than everything I had done before that, but I feel

like now with fig jam. And these more open ended collaborative visual tools, we're on the cusp of you know, yet another transition here where students can fully jump in to build to construct their own learning environment. And you know, with figma, and fig jam, we can move to this next era where students are not only consuming things, they're not only collaborating and contributing, but they can really build, they can literally design things, I mean, even take

a form factor. fig jam, you know, we have this infinite, you know, within quotes, not actually infinite, but this very large canvas, that means, you know, your ideas are not limited by the space of a digital piece of paper. And you know, it's not only text, but now you have drawing tools and shapes, images, polls, interactive widgets, you can totally reimagine how assignments look.

And then students can submit, you know, these more visual artifacts, and things that really just might resonate with them more. And so we're super excited about kind of how that transition is happening and feel grateful that a lot of teachers are seeing fit jam as a way to make that happen.

other's things. I think, you know, it goes even beyond what we've seen with with Google Docs and other collaborative tools. It's very inspiring. It feels like what the future of education really should look like. I'm curious about the professional development side of this, because this is something you and I can get out of on this. And you work with teachers all the time, who are thinking about how to use fig jam in incredibly innovative ways. But with all new tools, you have an

adoption curve. And I'm sure you have cutting edge teachers and educators early adopters who are doing amazing things and then you probably have teachers who for one reason or another may not yet be embracing it and are may not be excited and may need a little bit of inspiration or ideas from others to help them realize the potential for figma for education How do you think about helping educators down that road of seeing the exciting vision of what this collaborative era might look like?

light up. And you see how it motivates students, you know, one of the most interesting things we found is I think some teachers are hesitant with these collaborative environments of like, cheating, or kids like stealing each other's ideas. And we've actually found quite the opposite, actually, that when students are all in a file together, teachers often tell them like, hey, group one, check out what group three is doing.

And then all of a sudden group ones like, Oh, my God, I didn't even know that was possible, or Oh, my gosh, that pushes me to want to take my idea even further. And so rather than this, like competitive, or almost like plagiarism type thing, students are motivated by each other, they want to build on each other. And we find that teachers are very much the same.

And so I think the strategy that we're taking is just trying to connect with the community, listen to teachers, and what it is that they're seeing the use case, because again, we're taking this business product and trying to make it work for the classroom. And the use cases are different than needs are different. And so I think we're just really trying to start with the community and our users and build from there. And then once teachers have it, you know, they start sharing with their friends

and their ideas. And yeah, so I would just say, for anyone who wants to learn more, you know, come to one of our workshops, and we'll show you how it works and try and build it with other teachers. Because this is a product that's not best suited to do it alone. The magic really happens when you're in there with other people as the best ideas come from a group. Great

really, really interesting. So I imagine that both educators and students, when they do get into these webinars, when they do get their first training, or you mentioned your own experience, as well, you know, your first time in a collaborative docs sort of seeing everybody's mouse and being like, Oh, that's my friend. And that's this person. And that's this group doing something different over here, it can be a really transformative moment where you really see things very

differently. I'm curious so far, I know you're it's relatively early in the figma for education journey. But I'm wondering if you've sort of seen that those moments for educators where I wonder if this is something you see, you know, every day or if there's a couple of things that stand out to you have that sort of conversion moment of going from something feeling very

abstract. And like, you know, fig jam is something on a cheese board to Oh, wow, I can really see what I can do with this and sort of seeing the wheels start spinning, I'd love to hear what that looks like close up.

them up. But I think teachers like they're the most creative people in the world, we're giving them like these very basic pieces of the tool. And the things that they're doing with them are just absolutely

amazing. Like one teacher who was creating like a visual lab experience where her students were like practicing the egg drop in the file and taking pictures of it, documenting it before they do it in class, or teachers that are taking math, which often feels like a solo sport and solving equations together in the platform, or even teachers who are creating like, a calming room, one of them where they just put in like a bunch of calming images and videos for students to play with

and react to. And so yeah, it's just every day is such a cool part of my job to see where teachers go with the tool. And I think it's just up to us to show them the basics. And they really take it from there. Because, you know, they're the experts.

ways. Like, I mean, you can argue the mind boggles, there's so many different ways to use this stuff. really different experience and I think there's a real opportunity for like a community of practice for people doing this type of really innovative education with tools like this. I'm thrilled Yeah, I can't wait to see it in action. Yeah.

type of engaging activity. And yeah, that's really where the cool stuff happens. It's not the tools on their own. Yeah,

world are using. And they're using the collaborative tools there to they're dropping comments on each other's things, and Smiley's and, and hearts all the same ways as the students are, it's really exciting. So people should definitely be checking out figma for education and the fifth Gen product if they are not already familiar with it. I wish we had more time. I know you are about to get on a flight to part two. Yeah, exactly. There are two questions we always end our

podcasts on. And I'm really, really love to hear your take on this from your very, very unique perspective and figma for education. First is what is the most exciting trend that you see in the Ed Tech landscape right now, something that is sort of, we'd like to say, you know, around the next curve, like something coming and growing, that you have an eye on, that you think our listeners should pay attention to? Well,

tech stacks. And so we're starting to hear some really interesting buzz at the district level, trying to be more aligned to industry, how to bridge that gap between the classroom and the career. And that's where I'm really excited to see the investment in energy happening. You know, it's so cool to see my Twitter feed, you see these like, well, third graders in Japan, for example, like using the same tool that the professional designers I used to work with, like Google are using

to make digital products. And I just can't wait to see what this is going to unlock for students all over the world. And yeah, what they come up with, because I think design, you know, so few people went into so few people even knew that that was a thing. And when we live in a world where anyone can take access to the ideas that they have take access to these tools to make them real and share them with the world, I think it's going to be a really beautiful thing.

Very interesting. We didn't measure so many reasons.

students alike. And then last last question is what is a resource that you would recommend? You know, you've had a really interesting journey, and then tech, what is something you would recommend that you've come across? It could be a book, blog, a Twitter feed newsletter, anything that you would recommend for somebody who wants to dive deeper into anything we've discussed today, whether it's collaboration, whether it's fig jam itself, or visual communication skills, where should people go next?

more broadly. A book I'm in the middle of reading right now called hidden potential by Adam Grant talks a lot about kind of like, the power behind teamwork, the power behind collaboration, and how that actually helps a lot of ideas that normally might get silenced to come to the surface, and about how we can kind of work together in groups to elevate those ideas. And so it's been really interesting for me to read that book, kind of in the spirit of my work here at

figma. So yeah, hidden potential by Adam Grant talks a lot about different education systems around the world and how they've been able to harness the hidden potential in their students and make Every child really feel like they belong. Fantastic.

especially in 2023 2024. This has been a blast and yes, we need to set up a part two for it. Learn we can thigma for education. Thank you so much for being here with us on Edtech Insiders.