86. Quantum Resonance: The Hidden Patterns Connecting All Systems

Hello and welcome again to the Ecosystemic Futures podcast presented by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Social Works. a global firm helping organizations and nations navigate ecosystemic transformation. As our world is increasingly digital and interconnected, Ecosystemic models are reshaping society, industry, economy and policy and reframing how we build for resilient futures.

Today, we're continuing our investigation into the convergence of interesting deep technologies, what we understand about the world and the observable phenomenon that perhaps we don't yet understand. today we're going to be exploring the convergence of fact fiction and faith embracing the dance between what we know observe believe and we and what we don't yet understand Challenging our understanding of physics, science, and faith. The observed.

but the unexplainable with some of the leading minds in this arena. So I'm thrilled to welcome once again, Anna Brady Estevez. For those of you that haven't joined former episodes, Anna is... An esteemed colleague, we're grateful to have her partnership in this series. Anna is an investor in early stage technologies and deep technologies. with over $17 billion in valuation. Anna, thank you. Welcome. And please introduce yourself for our listeners today.

Thank you, Diane. Well, it's great to be back together with you all. And my work is mainly to support entrepreneurs who are building things in deep technology. Much of that has been in space and energy, but it also... extends across biotech and many other of deep technology and AI. So grateful to be here today. And we've been convening groups of, in some cases, hundreds of entrepreneurs who have been eagerly engaging in these fields of advance.

science and also in the fields of UAP science. And we're grateful here today to have Hal Putoff with us, John von Blauch, and... Diana Pasolka, three people that we hold an extremely high regard and who I feel that I'm privileged to know quite well and have deep appreciation for their work. So this, I do want to share that this is a very special conversation. conversation and

it's an unusual conversation. So for those that want to decide whether to turn up the volume or whether this is or isn't the conversation for them, one of the things that we've been trying to do over the past year is really provide people access for robust discussions that

had previously been less commonly taking place in some of these innovation communities. So that's one of the things that brought us to the field of UAP technology for the advances that it can bring for the betterment of humanity, abundance, solutions. security. But what we've also seen is, and those were conversations that those conversations are increasing in the private sector. Those conversations are increasing in the government.

We've got to timestamp this because I think I'm thinking that a year from now, there's going to be so much more conversation that there might even be the question of why was this a big deal at the time, right? Because we've seen congressional hearings on you. UAPs.

Hal's spoken well to how there were so many mentions of NHI in, I think it was the National Defense Authorization Act, some of the prior versions. So it's a different period of time. We're also seeing... see startups highly active but what and we now have a congressional committee for the declassification of secrets which includes among kind of those four main priorities and this is led by Congresswoman Luna, that that includes declassification of UAP.

So this is a time where a lot more is being shared. Hal and I have heard directly from one of the leading members of Senate that the American people are ready for this and this is real. This is certainly something that there's leadership. We've heard some statements that are very interesting that President Trump and his family have made in terms of what could be potentially leading roles in this space.

openness and sharing that said having been at a conference last summer we were talking about that which could not be discussed so people at a conference were invited what can you not discuss And the thing that is even less spoken about professionally and in government, although we are one nation under God, and we can say God bless America, is...

We have trended away from speaking about faith. We've trended away from speaking about God. So this is potentially the third real conversation, much more so than UAPs. that people have come to question, to what extent can you speak about faith? And there's, of course, separation of church and state, so we want to be respectful of that.

But at the same time, it's the equivalent of there are these tremendous veins of knowledge, and in some cases, scientific knowledge, that rather than having people burn the books.

It's as if there's a huge portion of the library of human knowledge where people have just been told, don't go over there why would you want to go over there and there's a tremendous part of the discussion that isn't happening so because we are aware that there are exceptional levels of knowledge across many societies, many groups.

many faiths around the world in today's discussion because we have experts stemming from where the Christian faith we're going to be hearing about some of those sources, but that's why it has historically in recent history been what is a more unusual and even censored conversation.

in some environments. And that is a departure from human history, where all these things were traditionally very much on the table. You could discuss faith, you could discuss science. So we're trying to reopen that conversation. for those who would like to. And for those that aren't into it, perhaps this particular conversation is less of interest because we will be going into those streams of information. I want to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself and you've done so much.

to advance really so many areas of energy, quantum, advanced communications. You've also been a multi-decade leader on UAPs and also remote viewing, but you've also spoken to how... And one of the reasons that we are having this conversation today is that the importance of faith and how many of these societal elements...

can either limit or accelerate the discovery of these sciences, something that you've spoken to. So could you share on your background and perhaps a bit more on that in terms of the faith part of this conversation?

and why it matters for UAPs. Okay, well, my background has been sort of all over the map in many different areas of interest from a scientific standpoint. Most recently, I've been quite deeply involved in the government's partly highly classified UAP program where we've been gathering data on observed. craft, exhibiting features that are hard to integrate into our scientific perspective, although we're making progress.

And so I had the opportunity to, in fact, commission some 38 papers from scientists around the world to address their areas of expertise as to how it might. help explain some of the observations we have of UAP. And so that's partially what I've been concentrating on. One of my fields of expertise is general relativity. And it turns out that even though pilots say, oh, my gosh, these right-angle turns at Mach 10, I mean, there's just no way that that can fit into our physics.

Well, actually, I would differ with that expression. It's agreed. It's certainly dramatic. But I would say, yes. It doesn't fit into our engineering. We can't do it yet. But the physics we can understand because there are principles in general relativity that would... easily explain exactly the features that we observe. So I would say it's not beyond our physics, but it is beyond our engineering.

But that also means that as we broaden our discussion, as we're going to do today, to consider even things such as levitating saints. to a scientist, to a physicist, into general relativity, there's got to be a connection between seeing levitating. people under various conditions as compared with levitating craft under various conditions so this opens up the entire field that spreads across not only just hard science in the labs

but also observations that we see among human beings under certain faith kinds of conditions. And we'll be discussing some of those today. And how just you've shared previously a bit about how sometimes the question about how this interacts with.

with our faith. Sometimes that's been something that's held people back from wanting to engage in these fields. I've also seen it be an accelerant. Is there anything that you could share on that in terms of why this is an additional driver that we're having this conversation today?

Well, in fact, as a practicing Catholic, I've looked into what does the Catholic Church have to say about such things as, for example, What's the possibility that there are extraterrestrial civilizations to interact with? And I have a number of quotes here that I could bring up. Even Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century argued for the existence of other worlds being populated.

Giordano Bruno, 1588, said, I can imagine an infinite number of worlds like the earth with the Garden of Eden on each one. And Padre Pio, when asked about... whether he thought there might be creatures of other planets he said well what else do you think they don't exist and that god's omnipotence is limited to this small planet earth And recently, more recently, Reverend Funis, past director of the Vatican Observatory, says believing in aliens does not contradict faith in God.

Vastness of the universe means it is possible there could be other forms outside Earth, even intelligence ones. So, in fact, the issue of ETs existing... actually is covered by the Catholic faith, among others. So these fields are not so disparate as one might think. Thank you for sharing, Hal. But there had at some points been in the past questions.

where people were hesitant because they were concerned that perhaps there could be more negative elements with this. And I've seen what you have, that many of the faiths are actually quite open to this.

Yes, many of them are. But even in the scientific and governmental aspects of dealing with the subject area on faith issues, we had a large program that was canceled. on UAP and ET technologies based on the fact that some of the higher level people felt that it was demonic. And they literally said the American taxpayer money should not be spent on investigating demonic technology. So those kinds of ideas actually reach into even some of our scientific enterprise.

And so I think that's another really important note is that we need to address this head on to be able to advance the science, because if programs aren't being pursued because there's concern, we really need to be able to have these discussions. Of course, and from my personal standpoint, I said, okay, well, if it's demonic, all the more reason we better really get around to understanding the details here.

People are very concerned about adversaries. Usually if there's concern about an adversary as opposed to the adversary, the United States moves forward to figure out what we need to know and develop.

For sure. Thank you. That's why I follow Diana Pasolko's work. I know she's here with us because she really does a deep dive on these kinds of issues. I'm really looking forward to her commentary as well. Thank you so much. And Diana, we're really grateful to have you back. And I do just want to acknowledge that we've been having a series of these conversations and some of them were before we kind of got up and recording everything, but we did.

have the pleasure of bringing you in to speak to probably about 100 entrepreneurs online. And people were so fascinated what you had to share with regards to the intersection of UAP and some of that which is in the historical and religious. I very much enjoyed your book, American Cosmic. What an excellent book to read. Also, just appreciate your leadership as a scholar. As a scholar of the Catholic tradition and professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina, could you...

I know you've done 25 years or more in technology and historically related events and those ties. Could you share more about your background, please?

Yeah, sure. And thanks for having me here to talk with John and Hal and Diane and you. What a pleasure and an honor. So honestly, I never thought I'd be here talking to physicists and people who have looking at UAP but it started in I mean I've been doing this for a very long time I grew up in the Bay Area area basically while and going to school during the dot-com boom so i was actually attending the jesuit school of theology which was at that time in berkeley

And which some of the people like Brother Guy Consolano, he also attended that school. And instead of getting an MDiv, I got an academic degree and went on to get a PhD at Syracuse University. And I focused on, I saw that technology was impacting everything. It was disrupting everything and progressing everything. And obviously, this is going to... So I.

I really focused on that. And my field is Catholic history. So I've been looking at apparitions of the Virgin Mary. I've been looking at saints like Joseph of Cupertino and their lives and the ways in which media. of their time impacted belief as well, because we've always had technology just in different forms. Writing is a technology.

So this is what I've been studying, but I was still very surprised in 2012 when aerospace engineers and people who were interested in technological entrepreneurship in space basically reached out. to me about my research. I hadn't thought about what at the time we call UFOs. I hadn't thought about UFOs, actually. I'd never seen close encounters of the third kind. You could say I was a disbeliever.

And so this intrigued me. And after about a year of getting these correspondences and emails, finally, I reached back out to one or two of these engineers. And started a conversation with them. Eventually met some of them.

And I looked into UFOs and I saw that the patterns were similar to what you see when you look at someone like Teresa of Avila, Joseph of Cupertino. You begin to see things like the ascent that we call levitation. in UAP encounters and things that appear to be craft, right? So things like spinning discs and lights and small people, all right? And so this was shocking to me. And that shock lasted a good year, by the way. So this was how I was introduced to this field. I'd heard of HAL.

He's like a legend, right? I never thought I'd be here talking with him. And I met Jacques Vallée. And I met a lot of people who have been studying this for a long time and were experts. And I was brought into this community. from my perspective, utilizing what they knew about these. things called UAP and looking at the patterns in the historical research that I have done. So this resulted in the book American Cosmic, which I guess explained the way that I...

I had to come to terms with the reality that these things were real because in my field, religious studies, we look at this purely from a historical perspective. We actually don't.

go into it asking, is this real or not? That's not the question we ask. But I was confronted with the fact that it looks like it's real. How do I write about it now? And that's what I do with American Cosmic. And that actually did impact my... field it impacted anthropology and things are different now like you said anna thank you diana i really appreciate that and the expertise you share john von blauch

I've known you for many years and we appreciate that you have many areas of information that are shareable now and that you've been focused on the ontology. and the phenomenology of various traditions of the West for decades, and that you also currently serve as the grand prior of the United States, one of the diasporic branches. of the Knights Templar and the Order of the Temple. So the Knights Templar, there's a lot of interest in their engagement.

I know that you're also active and a part of many other communities and orders. And so grateful that you're able to share some of that in your experiences with us today.

John, can you share more on your background? Like I said in an email, I'm so grateful to be surrounded by such a cloud of witnesses. You're all remarkable people. Thank you very much. Yeah. As a small child, I had a father who cultivated curiosity. in me. My father is from a Swiss German Anabaptist family, and they speak to the idea of a personal relationship with God. He would challenge me as a small child to read the Bible. And one of the verses he pointed out to me was Genesis 6.

Verse 8, I believe it speaks about when the sons of God saw the daughters of man or something to this effect, that they had children with them, and these were called the titans of old, something, the Nephilim, the Nephilim. And this idea of these Nephilim, this puzzled me. I wanted to know more about it. And so as a friend of mine says, that which you seek is causing you to seek. So I began this journey of just being curious in...

In the biblical sense, what mysteries there were laid out for us in the Bible. And throughout my life... I not only studied philosophy and the occult, quite literally, but... I studied international relations and diplomacy and international marketing in Madrid, Spain, at Schiller International University. And there I had an economics professor. And that economics professor said, Johnny boy.

what do you know about the Knights Templars? And I said, well, I heard about them growing up, not very, very much. And he said to me that the Knights Templars continued to exist and that he had... been and was a part of this group. And this conversation started because we were talking about the Nephilim and the idea of... these beings, these hybrids, and these things that we might describe as angels. And he explained to me that it was very important in life to have something, one is information.

And the other one is access. And he said, in order to get information, you need access. And that's something all of you are very familiar with. And he said, one of the great points of access to information in this realm. is Freemasonry. Freemasonry. It's the quality of equality. If you're a Freemason, you can access archives of the Freemasons. You can access conversations.

within the confines of the Masonic meetings where some of these subjects are entertained. So, at the first opportunity, I did join the Freemasons, and I did find that it introduced me to many, many, many different people. And it's been a wealth of networking and information for me throughout my life since I was 21 years old. But in the course of this relationship with George...

I was contacted by a man, and he represented a rather discreet group, which was the order of the temple, something similar to what George was involved with, a different branch. We discussed openly many, many mysteries. And he said to me, what is it about the Templars that captivates you? You've told me you've read the book, the Holy Blood, Holy Grail, all of these things.

And I said, well, what fascinates me is the fact that I went to a church outside of Segovia called Veracruz, and I had this remarkable experience inside this one chamber. It was an altered state of consciousness. It was an awareness. I felt connected to everything. I've never done any illegal drugs, but I felt like I was on a trip. I was having a trip. And do you think that was because of the structure that these Templars built? And I said, absolutely.

But where would they have gotten the information to do that? Why would they build something like that? They were medieval warriors, right? And I said, well, yeah, but there's a fellow in my Masonic Lodge who told me that many years ago... One of the government agencies, along with AEG International, I think it was, or GE, had done a research project about an electromagnetic field that was generated at this particular place called Veracruz. And I said that...

That's fascinating because they described that this building was built in a nodule where different energetic lines on the planet come together and that this building itself harnesses that. I was like, wow. And so my teacher, Don Fernando, said to me, well, why don't you explain to me in sort of an essay where you think the Templars got this technology and these things? So I wrote.

Three things down, basically. One, that they were either in contact with crater human intelligences. They had uncovered some kind of information and technology from... lost or previous civilization that possessed very different technology than they had at that time, so-called advanced, or they were time travelers. And he said, when I presented this, he said, you're correct. I said, in which one? He said, in all three.

And this boggled my mind. I mean, this sounds like bat crap, crazy stuff. But pursuant to that, I was brought into this society. And through this society, I encountered a lot of phenomena. not only within myself, but with other people, an interconnectedness, a sense of unity. And it all comes down to a, what if you want to call it a human or spiritual technology that allows people... to connect and feel the oneness. They say the all is in one and the one is in all. But anyway.

I've nattered on enough about that. You spoke about... John, we will also have a more in-depth conversation on some of these areas once we go through some of the scientific content. So we'll focus on...

And just to key into some of what you're saying, because there are many listeners who have experienced these types of things. There are also many listeners for whom this might just be so... different from what they've experienced and one of the things as i've seen more science more technology more information gotten like you said access to different types of information is that it reminded me of, so I'm also practicing Catholic.

And there was a time that I was not as active in the church, but I went to church growing up and there's so much going on and there's such a richness of information and ritual that there's a lot. really to parse through and so many cases even when we've gone for years every sunday we don't always see everything that is being presented to us but it's been very interesting to me for instance that scientists are talking about quantum

entanglement. Quantum entanglement is one of the primary areas that we're focused on as a nation right now. Quantum science, quantum energy, quantum communications, and I know Hal is an expert in quantum. Scientists or leading visionaries are asking questions such as, you know, are things more interdimensional? Is there interdimensional this and interdimensional that? And these things feel, can feel very next-gen or, wow, this is edgy. But then, for instance, as Catholics,

We are told, so, you know, billions globally, that yes, the nature of reality is interdimensional. That is a part of what our faith discloses to us. We are encouraged as Catholics, and this is something that, you know, even as a practicing Catholic growing up, I didn't really do because it's one element of the faith, but that you have interdimensional beings who are there to help you.

guardian angels so this is something that many people believe or have been told you are welcome to engage with non-human intelligence and it's there for you and please do engage with it and oh by the way have discernment Because not all communications are angelic, are saintly. There are also negative entities. So the importance of a wide range of communications. the interdimensional mass, the communion of all saints across space and across time. I know Hal works on space.

space-time metric engineering and that many people around the globe are engaging in what is an interdimensional mass and space-time I don't want to call it engineering, but the essence of what is space and time is disclosed as very different in the Catholic Mass and in a number of other faiths, I presume, as well. as opposed to the acknowledged physics in some of our scientific institutions. So we'll get in depth into more.

in the accounts of some anomalous phenomena so hal and diana i know that you both had quite a bit to share on the levitation phenomena in the saints would either of you like to open up that discussion and how it ties to our advanced physics Why don't you give the background, Diana, and I can talk about some physics. I think that's great. Yeah, I've been wanting to talk to Hal about this for a long time.

What I found was I went to primary source material and collated a lot of the actual levitation accounts. And I knew that if I did that, I could... tell how what the patterns were and that he might be able to speak to that so i do have some The source material I have is I have source material from a Spanish nun who is Teresa of Avila. She's actually a doctor of the church and she was she was in the 1500s.

And then I have Joseph of Cupertino. He is a saint of the church and he's in the 1600s. And then I have a recent case that hasn't been approved as a... a legitimate marian apparition but it hasn't been disproved either and a lot of people are have devotions to the the Virgin Mary of Garabandal, a Spanish town, and there were four girls. And the, so what you see here is you see.

levitation but you also see a lot of and by the way we do have video also if anybody's interested in looking at that of the garabindal people young ladies doing being in trance and and having these looks like levitation. So I'm going to go ahead and read some of that if that's okay, Anna. Please do. Yeah, please do.

All right. So the first one is actually from Teresa. This is from her actual diary. She wrote it herself. So this is what I found in the literature of the Catholic tradition is a lot of times people may have the ability to write. their own experience, but then it gets redacted by later editors who say the experience isn't correct theologically. Then it gets redacted. So the redaction has been around for a long time.

So even in the 1600s, and her stuff was redacted, but we do have her original diary, which she wrote herself. And she talks about this rapture that she feels right before she gets levitated. And she can't help but levitate. so she says rapture as a rule is irresistible before you can be warned by a thought or help yourself in any way it comes as a quick and violent shock

You see and feel this cloud or this powerful eagle rising and burying you up on its wings. You realize, I repeat, and indeed see that you are being carried away, not where. For although this is a delight, the weakness of our nature makes us afraid, and we need a much more determined and courageous spirit than for the previous stages of prayer.

Come what may, we must risk everything and leave ourselves in God's hands. We have to go willingly wherever we are carried, for in fact, we are being born off whether we like it or not. In this emergency, very often I should like to resist, and I exert all my strength to do so.

especially at such times that I am in a public place and very often when I'm in private too because I am afraid. So she goes on to talk about the great struggle she has to stop doing this it happens when she's in prayer at one point she was in a mass And important people were there. And she felt herself rising up off the ground. And because she was there with some sisters, she asked them to hold her down. Often when people touch her, they go up with her.

So there seems to be like a field associated with it. And that's one of the things that I noticed. I also noticed this. She's really afraid of this, by the way. I also noticed this with Joseph of Cupertino. He never wrote anything, but. Prior to his sainthood, there was a huge analysis by the Catholic Church of all of the witnesses. So literally hundreds of people who witnessed him.

raised and again just like with Teresa it was generally when he was in a trance state and in prayer and this person says at one time I saw him rise up from the floor and fly all the way to the pulpit specifically in the place of the cross joining them the father started this is another account started to sing with them and after having sung for a while he flew away from them and went through the air to stop kneeling above the father

far to this point of the great altar where the most holy sacrament was enclosed. And after having stayed there for a little while, Because the shepherds hadn't stopped singing, the father turned to fly back to the middle of the group. And then often in the case of Joseph of Cupertino, the head priest has to actually, the parish priest has to actually tell him to stop, like stop doing this.

because it's very distracting. And in fact, they used to put him in separate quarters and they used to move him around from parish to parish because his levitations distracted everybody so much. thing that i've noticed which is a pattern is that a lot of the people joseph theresa

And even the girls of Garabandal, they would have knowledge of things that they shouldn't have knowledge of. So in a sense, they had, what would you call it, like telepathic knowledge of things. And again, of the 90 pages that I have of... that's translated from his...

account. It's called the canonization record, which is basically the case for sainthood for him. People talk about him knowing things about them or their situation that they could not have known. You also see this in the 1960s, early 1960s. a bin doll situation where people say, I don't know how those girls knew, but this was true. So you have not only a trance situation, you also have the flight. You also have people trying to keep these people.

down but once they touch them they seem to be in that sphere of influence and they either go up with them or they're they're not subject to gravity that we know of so there's like a different There are different laws of gravity here that we're seeing around these levitating saints. By the way, levitation is just not something you see in the Catholic Church. It happens in other religions as well. Hinduism, there are accounts of levitation.

And of course, modern day UAP experiencers also talk about levitation. What you do have here in the religious cases is you have the actual people levitating in front of other people. And it's not... them like their soul flying out of their bodies their actual body so i thought that might be okay to start with yeah that's it's absolutely fascinating and

And I've read over some of that literature as well, and it's really clear that we're getting actual facts. And so from a scientific standpoint, I asked myself, okay, well... These saints don't have a nuclear power pack on their back to drive some anti-gravity propulsion system. So how could this possibly be? Well, when we dig into it from a scientific standpoint...

It turns out that what we usually call empty space is not really empty at all. Down below everything are what we call quantum fluctuations. And so our entire... life is immersed in a ground of quantum fluctuations. Now, these quantum fluctuations are random, generally speaking, and so any effects they might have are sort of canceled out. And so under most conditions, we don't observe their effect. But it turns out that, for example, Andrei Sakharov, a famous Russian physicist,

said, okay, well, when it comes to gravity, we always think of gravity as its own force or whatever. But actually, he thought that it was not its own force, but rather it was an effect. that arose from aspects of the underlying sea of quantum fluctuations. When I look at it from that standpoint, and we've done some actual papers on inertia and gravity as it might be connected to the underlying quantum fluctuations as opposed to being its own thing.

And so you realize that if for some reason these quantum fluctuations that ordinarily cancel each other out somehow got pulled together into a coherent state, well, there's enough energy there. to levitate somebody. And so, in fact, even to the degree that we have gravity around a planet, from the Sakharov model, that really has to do with

sort of forming a pattern, a sphere of influence in the underlying vacuum fluctuation. So I think that there's likely a connection between these underlying vacuum fluctuation somehow get... pulled together into some kind of coherent pattern and that that's what's behind the ability for for a person to levitate and so those models were also applying to try to understand The activity of UAP and the idea that, well, you've got non-human intelligences, presumably power running these craft.

and seemingly violating our ordinary physics but it wouldn't violate this idea if you knew how to sort of coherent bring together so one of the mysteries in fact this is just kind of a speculation one of the mysteries of some of the craft that have been recovered is it doesn't appear that there's any particular technology inside so i mean there is there the possibility that maybe some non-human intelligences are so advanced

that basically the shell is just something they put around themselves, but they're actually running it via the same principles that these levitating saints seemingly apply based on having an ecstatic experience. I think those are the kind of connections that we need to look into more. And so from a physics standpoint, we're examining these possibilities of...

Cohering vacuum fluctuations and generating what we ordinarily would call gravity effects. And so we have our own term for it, space-time metric engineering, we say. And so I... I see connections between these, and so that's why I've been particularly interested in looking into the descriptions.

and so there there are certain elements of some of these descriptions that sometimes when these saints levitate they also seem to shine and have some kind of intense aura well it turns out that That's one of the predictions of this sort of underlying model of space-time engineering is that when you get into an aspect that would give you levitation, anti-gravity.

It also has the effect of also generating intense light that you would see as well. So a number of things like that. There are other elements. So that's why I'm interested in looking into those examples. or little clues as to what additional side effects might occur. So this idea that if someone reaches up to a levitating saint and they find themselves brought up.

into moving with them well that that's exactly what you'd expect on the basis of a space-time metric engineering model where really the space is being sort of reconstructed out of underlying back and fluctuations to be a certain special levitational kind of thing and so yes anybody else getting in reaching into that space would experience the same thing so Those kinds of things make sense from a scientific standpoint. I see John's got his hand up and I want to give you a chance, Diana, as well.

So I just want to share something with you. So some of the Templar technologies or the human technologies, you're speaking about coherence, Hal. We say that when you're in an emotional state, in harmony, happiness, contentment, joy. You become aligned and resonate with a physical and holistic well-being, not anything that's been produced by some chemicals, alcohol or drugs. And both of these are aligned.

These things align you in speech and expression and action. You're harmonious. And then something that we look into is aperture. When there's a hemispheric bridge is open. and functioning, enabling the conscious to access what is normally considered subconscious or precognitive. This is reflected in such things as what you're familiar with, remote viewing.

Perhaps automatic writing and then getting into this other stuff that you're speaking about. And then it's about the state, the trance state approaching. And this is. This isn't my wheelhouse, this is yours, but I think it's described as a low theta, almost sleeps-like state, while still maintaining yourself in a state of apprehension and awareness. And this then results in something called the theta-gamma coupling.

or the potential delta gamma coupling. I mean, that's some of the more modern terms that we've put to this. I don't know if that resonates with you. with regards to what you're talking about when they're in these states? Are those three things something that you observed in terms of where it was observed, the coherence, the aperture? How do you get to that aperture point?

Well, there are there are meditational techniques and brainwave measurements are made on people who are able to generate theta, even delta and so on. So, yeah, I see a connection there. Okay. All right. Fantastic. And we can go deeper into the consciousness side of this. But before we do that, Diana, I wonder if you had something that you wanted to share with regards to the levitation.

Yeah, so this is where we get to the point where I think that there's no demarcation between the consciousness side and the physics side because it seems like there's a direct... connection between the consciousness and the levitation. So one thing that I noticed that it seemed to me that a lot of people didn't notice when I was looking at this material from my perspective.

And people who were technopreneurs and aerospace engineers were looking at it from their perspective, which was completely materialist science based. And they're trying to figure out how does how do these things happen? I noticed that the people who were able to do these were a certain type of people. They're saints. In the modern time period, perhaps there are no saints left. So the people that are chosen are children.

Right. So the children of Garabandal. So perhaps there is something that has to do with their. What I noticed was that there was something that had to do with their characters. So they were not just meditating every day. They were in constant state of prayers. So the thing about the Spanish town where the girls... lived in the early 1960s this town prayed together the people it was a mountain town in spain garabandal these people prayed together they work in a every day they'd go to pray

the ave maria at the the church the only church in town they did this together i mean i believe that there's something there only because it's data and i'm not suggesting hey let's everybody do this i'm just saying that This is data that has been ignored by a lot of people that were hoping to reverse engineer or do some of this. But my point to them was, well, you're ignoring this data that suggests that.

the lifestyle you lead won't let won't allow you to be doing this that it appears to be something that has to do with their there is it their character is it some type of mental state that they've been able to achieve, I actually don't know. So I'm just putting it out there as a data point that I've observed. Well, I can well imagine that in those kind of prayerful states with numbers of people involved, they're generating a certain level of quantum entanglement coherence.

And so I'd love to show up there with some instrumentation to see if we could measure that quantum effects are being invoked. And of course, there has been work at, for example, the... Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Laboratory, where they had quantum-driven random number generators, and people would get into meditative states and concentrate on making the... usual random effects become non-random. And that's actually, there's been published papers in the proceedings of the

electrical engineering journals about success in some of those things. So I think that connection between what people are doing mentally, whether prayerful or in groups or whatever, and then...

physiological and physical side effects go hand in hand. So in my sense of it, from a quantum theorist standpoint, it's all a big integration thing and that's why i've even written a paper called physics and metaphysics as co-emergent phenomena because i think that there is just one reality and it includes all of these elements

And John, I see you maybe had something to add here. The Kozyrev mirror. Are you familiar with that? How? Kozyrev's mirror? Yeah. Where people look at a mirror and attempt to contact. Those who have died? Is that the one you mean? No, I'll send you something about it later. It's a device. Oh, a device. Okay. It's a device. It's a room. But anyway, it also helps.

create these same effects that you're describing and that's i was curious if you were familiar with that okay i'm not i'm not i'd like to see that sure absolutely absolutely so i guess we've spoken about We've spoken about this phenomena or a range of the phenomena and some of the ties to the historical record. into observation, and Diana, as you've said, even to prayer, meditation, and certain energetic states, perhaps.

And we're also seeing now that in the private sector, I won't speak to what may or may not be happening outside of the private sector, but in the private sector, for instance, it's public now that there are a number of researchers and companies. that are utilizing psionics to call in certain phenomena. And this isn't one entity, there are multiple entities that are doing this, and there are a range of phenomena that are purportedly coming in, potentially types of crap.

and also energetic type phenomena such as orbs. I don't know if that's a mischaracterization of the phenomena. I've seen orbs myself, so don't claim to be an expert on it, but I've seen those in the past. So is there anything that you would like to share with regards to the consciousness connection? And I don't want to constrain it to calling in these entities or technologies, but what might you share? consciousness side.

which many, many of the entrepreneurs are people that are active in this space. We start out talking about the nuts and bolts of, well, this material or this propulsion, but then when we say, well, what else are we missing? And oftentimes people... People will say, the consciousness side of this is so important, whether that's... communication, whether that's a resonance, a quantum entanglement, a unity. John, I think you've spoken a little bit on this and you're on mute.

Yes, I am on unity, on unity consciousness. You've certainly spoken about that and downloads of information as something that entrepreneurs have shared. Sometimes that's more ambiguous in terms of levels of information. other times it's a tremendous download of very highly specific information that they wouldn't anticipate having access to because they haven't studied it they haven't been in the places where they would have expected to have had that information

Correct, correct. Yes, yes. Diana and Hal. Are you guys familiar with the concept of the baptism of the Holy Spirit? They spoke about it at Pentecost, yes? Yes. Okay. Is this, could it be in some way, shape or form that people are connecting with a cloud for lack of a better word and they're accessing or. Information is downloaded from there. I think they call it the Akashic Record, but the quantum field, perhaps? I mean, I could say a bit about that. That's fantastic.

Okay, so first off, I want to say something about... What Anna said at the very beginning of this conversation, and Hal spoke too as well, which was that people in the government shut down a program of... uap calling it demonic okay so i want to talk a little bit about that because i think that it's actually interesting but it's interesting for reasons that we never talk about okay and i think that what they're identifying is that there's a historical lineage of

When I see the data, I can see, okay, yes, what we're looking at at UAP right now looks very similar to what has been going on historically. Historically, though, we weren't secular societies, right? So there were religious societies that... identified good things to hook into good things to download and things that aren't so helpful okay and so i think that the people who were

doing this in the government they actually had a historical knowledge of this so it's not we tend to say oh bad they're they're shutting down science but what if they actually know something about this

And they do, actually, if they're looking at it as both good and bad. There's also references, if they happen to be Christian, there were references in the Bible that suggest... in like in acts acts 18 says we're utilizing the holy spirit here to heal people and then somebody said wow can you give this to me because i want to sell it and make a lot of money okay and they say okay that's that's not right

Okay, they say that's a wrong use of this technology. Okay, so there's that. So we have to understand the framework of people who know the historical... religions and know that this has been known about and have put into place

strategies to deal with it okay so when you're utilizing it for weapons when you're utilizing it for money and things like that that you know often works okay but is that something that should be done okay that's another question altogether and perhaps that's why that group i don't know

But perhaps that's why that group was shut down. But I just wanted to say that because I've talked to a lot of people at this point doing this now for as many years as I've been doing it since 2012. And I can say that a lot of the people aren't doing it out.

of ignorance they're doing it because they're concerned uh well i i think they're i i think what you bring up is is valid and there may be actual reasons why at the level that our culture is maybe maybe there are good reasons to keep this kind of locked up behind the scenes for potential as you say say weapons applications and so on so

My standpoint is that I think from a scientific standpoint, I'd like to expand out and understand as much about this as possible, whether it's plus or minus or a combination. that the more knowledge we have as we move forward, hopefully the good will outweigh the bad in terms of what we do with our increasing knowledge. But of course, it's a crapshoot at this point. I was going to say, it does seem like there's an increasing level of information and an opportunity that is coming forth.

from a variety of angles, whether that's the government, whether this is the faith, some of these groups, and individuals for whom this is resonating with. So again, we spend a lot of time with entrepreneurs and scientists. people really responding to this in a way that we wouldn't have expected, and then people just all around the world.

having these experiences, which it's not that some institution is deciding whether or not to give them access to information, they're having that. So I guess, Diana, I appreciate your point on where are the saints today? I'm an optimist, so I feel like... There's that path that everybody's trying to, and the saints weren't perfect. A lot of them had very complex lives. Some of them were closer to perfection, but that path to try to drive.

betterment for humanity and for other for other beings i think that's a call that many people are moving towards in spite of like you said there's the the challenges so anything on the Anything further on the consciousness side? And Diane, I know you wanted to share something or ask a question of us. Oh, no, I was basically following up with the idea that

the separation of consciousness from the the tech i found in the research because in 2012 when i started this research i began to look at our space program in its history and i found that people who were at even in the russian space program the people at the very heart of the technologies were actually involved in this type of consciousness

work, believing that they were in conversation with non-human intelligences. And this was something that was basically written out of the history of at least our space program, although the Russian space program. is okay with that. They still talk about Tchaikovsky. He's the father of Russian rocket technology. But Tchaikovsky thought he was in conversation with angelic beings.

And our Jack Parsons thought he was in touch with non-human intelligence. So this shocked me because I didn't know it. Again, I was in shock again at how science looks fairly unorthodox in terms of its materialism. You go and you look at people like Srinivasan Ramanujan, the Indian mathematician. He believed that he was getting his formulas, mathematical formulas from the goddess Lakshmi.

His formulas are still there's a journal devoted to his work, still unbelievably brilliant and untouchable, really. So I guess my point is that that. Materialist framework breaks down and I'm I agree completely with how that we're at a point where

We need to know the information. But my point is that we need to know it, but with the intention for what maybe the saints and the historical... religious traditions can teach us we can't leave that behind maybe we'll leave it behind at our peril right so we're we're not yeah that's what i'm saying so there's something there that we that we need to know and if we're doing this blindly because you have to understand that once i started doing this work not just

People from Space Force came to talk to me, but people who were wanting to create the next billion dollar technology, right? The next game changing technology and not necessarily for altruistic reasons. So to ignore that is something. We shouldn't because we've learned, we have to learn something from the past. And so the historical traditions of religion have taught us how to engage, I guess, the rules of engagement. And grateful for you.

very pleased that this conversation is taking place to to look at these interspersing elements of not just technology and not just religion But the fact that there are, in fact, connections between them based on the fact that it's all being carried out by human beings who have both aspects as part of their actual reality.

Yeah, I'd like to just maybe pull that thread. And this also touches back on an earlier point that John made, but really, even more so now than ever, information is both a infrastructure.

but also currency in our path forward and restricting access. Whereas in some cases, some elements of the information necessarily for the benefit of society, humanity for. for all the right purposes, must be compartmentalized and protected. I think we all agree that the compartmentalization and restriction of access to some information has limited.

our understanding of what is possible what is happening what is being observed and and how we create better pathways for humanity going forward we we have the benefit of incredible advancements in science, physics, technology that makes our ability to capitalize on really what we're seeing. much easier. We're able to apply greater sensor application of sensing capabilities, observation capabilities, computing capabilities to make more sense.

of what we're seeing what we're what we're experiencing and and use that information to to advance creativity and and creation but but we're compartmentalizing We're applying more constraints than are perhaps beneficial or helpful on our own ability to understand these phenomenons. How can we advance, I guess, our work on the emergence of hidden information into science?

a scientific discourse and in what new research directions could potentially emerge from this convergence of hidden knowledge and modern science how can we collectively work to unlock these pockets of critical information, critical understanding, and in order to create more beneficial pathways for science, physics, and humanity at large.

Of course, in the UAP area, there's this whole concept of increased transparency and disclosure. And so many of us have been involved in governmental programs. are behind this, recognizing that there probably are some things that should be kept compartmentalized because you don't want a potential adversary to... suddenly take off and weaponize something and use it against us. But in general, I think the compartmentalization is too strict. And so I'm very glad to see Congresswoman Luna.

come forward with backing by Comer that there should be more information revealed about the UAP area. And so I and many others have participated in various documents. documentaries that are doing our best to bring the reality of this phenomena forward, while at the same time not making the mistake of revealing something that shouldn't be revealed because it could potentially lead to.

Instant negative consequences, which we don't want. So at least in this field of UAP stuff, that's a big thing going forward these days. So the stigma. about the field has been reduced considerably, in part because in the old days, someone described flashing light across the sky and you could say, well, maybe had too many drinks or whatever.

But now our sensor systems have gotten so sophisticated that you can no longer deny that there's really something there. And then similarly, along the lines of what Diana is doing, recognizing that In addition to ordinary religious practice and prayer and so on, you actually have events occurring that show that there's something in a more expansive.

aspect taking place, I mean, leading to levitations and getting knowledge about the future and so on, which also says that therefore the human being... has more inherent potential than we usually give it credit for because we try to compartmentalize things even in a religious sense. That's why I admire so much Diana's work on bringing all elements of these issues together and broadening the horizon to examine them. So that's good.

I agree with how I think that education, mass education, basically, I think is what's needed. So when people learn about. our space program and the people who founded the technologies and the russian space program and the same and how scientists today I think part of the reason why American Cosmic was so intriguing to people was that I featured scientists who were engaged in these consciousness...

these strategies of consciousness in order to create the technologies they were creating. One of whom is Gary Nolan at Stanford, who has come out and talked about his role. He was, I used a pseudonym to talk about him during the writing of that book.

and other scientists in the book as well who are still pseudonymous. But I think that this is a very... important and it was important for me too to come out as from an atheist standpoint with respect to the topic to actually seeing the evidence and being convinced and having my mind expanded and opened as well so i think that these are important ways that you know because

Young kids who want to be scientists read these books. I have a lot of students who email me and say, I love your book and I want to do this when I grow up. I think it's really important.

I'm just listening to all of you and wondering if this convergence of this conversation, these topics helps us to, because there's been a... I think, a very strong trend towards secularization, right? It's been, I think, easy to compartmentalize the principles of faith and the observations of faith and kind of park those in.

smaller and smaller kind of groups and belief systems. But if we are able to open up this conversation and explore this broadly as we are here today, does this help us to bridge more of a...

kind of a pathway back to greater harmony in faith and fact and what has been, I guess, relegated to science fiction. We're seeing so much more of the science fiction genre moved into the kind of... documentary genre as we advance our understanding of these principles of physics and science and technology, are we able to maybe perhaps

return more to a conversation of faith because we understand these phenomena perhaps a little bit more with these types of explorations and with greater access to the information. Diane, that's a great call to action and opening. So I think we're literally talking about, and across faith traditions, many millennia. of human knowledge of observation of what has been shared in some cases generously with people and so we're we're talking about reopening parts of that human knowledge that

We've willingly cordoned off in some of our scientific or governmental or other conversations. So inviting people, this is a lot. There could be so many conversations on this. We're only having one today, but I do think it's a great opportunity. to take that pause in gratitude for this portion of the conversation and to now drill in in depth on some of what John here has the insights.

from a number of these societies and the Templars that I know, it's human knowledge that some of it's been recorded. Some of it, I understand from you, John, has really been mouth to ear over the years. And then there's that. willingness to share more in the spirit of aiding that human abundance. So John, let's get into, and I would invite all of us, Diane, Diane and Hal, to jump in where you see synergies from what you've seen or have questions. But John, there's a lot to share. So what

What is the first thing that comes up to you when you think about some of this Templar knowledge or these other societies with regards to UAP and the phenomena? You said something about telepathy earlier on, right? Wasn't the discussion of telepathy? And telepathy is not the reading of minds, but it's the reading of feelings, correct? You've shared that. Like empathy, the feeling. So one of the things that I was told is that the injunction against sharing some of these human technologies.

with people were there or these injunctions were there to prevent them from being used in a nefarious way. And I think what Hal's speaking to, the idea of compartmentalization or siloing things. out of fear that they might be used by bad actors against us. I think there's a real problem that we have. Our technology has evolved. It's moving so quickly. But humanity is essentially the same. We're still warring over scarcity and the manipulation of resources and these things. And if I understand...

We're all speaking from a faith-based place here. We have faith, hope, and love. And love is the greatest of these. And love in its purest essence is action. And we just don't see a lot of loving action. in our world today and i wonder i wonder if one of the the leaps or one of the evolutions that we need to make is not so much with but with ourselves. And this is something that the monastic orders and religious have always strived to do, to improve themselves, to be instruments of love.

I wonder if one of the reasons that these events are occurring, these phenomena... Is it to help us in our evolution as a species to realize that we are in a scale of being part of something greater? And that sounds very Star Trek-ish, but that we are... We are one human family in a plurality of worlds. Giordino Bruno, right? I mean, he ended up pretty badly, got burned for some of that stuff. But is it important that we begin to... retool the way we interact with each other.

And maybe in doing so, it will expand our consciousness, maybe by being more people of feeling as opposed to competition. I mean, I don't know. I'm throwing that out there. This is some of the things. And John, this is really interesting. And some of the people actually develop.

the technology, as we said, they keep coming back to. It's about the consciousness. We also have other leaders who are actually sharing in innovation communities, including around the DOD community as well. Somebody like Julia Mossbridge, really, with the focus. on unconditional love. So we are seeing really, and I know Julia has done a podcast with Diane in the past as well.

But I think this also to go back and Diana Pasolka, I know had made some, some similar points about that kind of purity as a talk previously of intent and getting to those next technologies. But I do. also like as i'm hearing you speak about caring for humans we had talked about that as a first as one of the first steps and one of the important steps

on the path to engaging with NHIs productively or other beings that might be on this planet. So I do think that we have demurred in some of these environments from discussing um other species in some cases we've demurred from talking about ultra terrestrials i know hal has a paper on that but how do we respect

and protect for instance ultra terrestrials if we don't discuss them and certainly going many people say first why do i want to think about uaps there's war going on on earth why do i even want to engage with these technologies or think about UAPs or extraterrestrial life, look at all the conflict and all the challenges we have here on Earth. But I do think that this ultra-terrestrial peace, there's credibility there. And that's something that...

It was one of Hal's seven or so hypotheses in one of his papers. But to put forth the, if there are those that walk among us. that are not from here. I think part of the reasons that this conversation has been curbed, quite frankly, is to protect if there are such beings. One point I'd like to respond to. What you just brought up was the fact that back during the remote viewing program at SRI, we had the so-called remote viewing program, which was to gather data about.

What was going on in Russia and so on using what in the vernacular would be called ESP means and so on. And so one of the things that gave me kind of a positive feeling was that. In talking to English Swan, who is one of our excellent remote viewers who could apparently extend his consciousness to a remote location and gather information and so on.

And so when people talk to him, what about using that ability to affect negatively someone that's on the other side of the globe or whatever? And his answer, which I found to be profound, was, but look. To make that connection, I become part of that remote location and a remote person. And so to harm. Something on the end of that link would be harming myself because now I've extended myself to be part of that link. And so he said there was, for that reason, kind of a natural built in.

positive aspect against nefarious use. And I found that very inspiring. Thank you for sharing that. That is inspiring. But the question is, Do you have to be someone like that to understand that when you do something bad, you're... connected to the recipient of that and it's affecting you. I mean, isn't one of the great injunctions that Jesus gave us was love your neighbor as yourself.

And what does that mean? It means that your neighbor is yourself. It is you. Treat your fellow human being as you would want to be treated because your fellow human being is actually you. We are the all is in one and the one is in the all. We are all interconnected. And when we talk about praetor human intelligence and ultra terrestrials, one of the things that has been. brought up. And in this time of revelation, again, what I was told is...

People need to evolve. Humanity needs to evolve. And we have tools that would help them evolve, but they need to understand that the... the direction they've been on thus far has been very, very bad. And as long as when some human life is valued... more so than others. And people profit from the extermination or destruction of the very most precious thing that we have.

which is life. Life comes from the source, our creator. And if we continue on this path, we're going to destroy ourselves. And then all of this... Other stuff really doesn't matter. And are we really ready to go into space and carry this baggage with us and cause destruction there?

And John, that actually ties to, and I don't know if Diana would have something to add to this as well, and I think Hal's colleague Ingo Swan did, but for many people, and there's personal revelation, and then there's public revelation. revelation, right? And so Ingo had a book that I think was, I don't remember the name of it, that was on Ingo Swann.

On the Marian apparitions, many of the faithful always say, oh, we would love to see the Virgin Mary. But oftentimes these apparitions was bringing kind of a harsh message of here's what you need to know type. situation so i don't know if diana or hal had anything that they wanted to add there but you know what listening to you is kind of sparking that for me

I I'd like to follow up on what Hal said about Ingo's answer, which I think is exactly what I've been trying to say, but much better is that there's something structural that we're talking about in the people who. can have a positive experience with the NHI. And it has to do with their character. I don't know how, but it does. And so when Ingo's talking about

The Marian Apparition book is a really good book because Ingo is not coming from the dogmatic Catholic perspective. He's coming from the perspective of a person who's had this experience as a remote viewer and understands that there is this.

this apparition of this actual being that these people are in contact with. Those people... have based on the ways in which they live they've developed just like athletes develop a certain body type in order to be a thrower of the javelin or a marathon runner These people have developed something that allows them to connect with this positive, we're calling it technology, this positive.

divine being okay or this nhi or whatever you want to call it and in a good way in a positive way that helps so there's something structural that is at play I noticed that in American Cosmic, Tyler D, one of the scientists who's pseudonymous, works as almost like a piece of equipment that they utilize when they launch.

certain types of missions in because he has that character in order to connect with that NHI so when people came to me and they're like we really want to do this we want to connect with this I'm thinking They don't actually have that character. You can tell. So I think that there is something structural. Apparently, Ingo had that character.

Yes, like for those of us who have hope, maybe people can develop that character. So I guess that it's open for those who aren't there yet. Presumably it's open for us to try to evolve to that better. I was going to say, interestingly enough, that's what that being the Virgin Mary, when she comes and she speaks to the people, she's basically telling them to take care of their bodies. She's saying fast once a week, do a lot of prayer, basically just.

Just be a good person. Develop yourself physiologically and mentally. And that's that. I mean, it's not. And she says, do that and you'll avoid some bad things. So it's not really anything out of the ordinary that she's saying. It's things that you see in Hinduism and Buddhism. Monastic orders. Yeah, monastic orders, basically. Right, John. And it's true.

In the remote viewing, if someone just hears about remote viewing from afar, they think, okay, well, they get an image of something that's at a remote site and whatever, and that it's a mental thing. But in fact, the remote viewers that are successful... find it to be a visceral experience that they have the sensations and feelings associated with.

a remote site. And so, in fact, in teaching remote viewing, we teach them to don't try to make an image of something far away, because probably just your imagination, but tune into your visceral. feelings, responses, and the whole body gets involved. And so it's a very integrative experience.

Is empathy something? I mean, Diana and Hal, is empathy that you found people with high levels of empathy? People like... the remote viewers to some of these saints i mean does it begin with being able to feel other people be able to to feel is that what empathy you understand what i mean by empathy i do i think so i mean i do

I did see that in the research that I did, not just historically, but also the people that I engaged with, the ones who were really, really successful at this, were so empathetic that it was really difficult for them to be in groups of people, right? I would maybe, oh, go ahead. No, no, I think we're getting to it here. And that's that that's about feeling and the expansion of consciousness that we need to have to be able to go into this next phase of our development is based.

upon an ability to to empathize and feel each other and this is it's a it's it's a new way of being that's going to help move us in the next into this into this golden age and there are technologies which you obviously are familiar with spiritual technologies you spoke about fasting you talk about meditation all of these things but One of the things that I wonder is when NHI makes contact with these people and what's apparently occurring today, what we know about it, is it trying to help?

change the architecture of our consciousness and make us more aware of ourselves and what's out there to bring us to a better understanding or a better feeling that we are Not, in fact, individuals, but we are part of a collective, a great universe, a great community, a great communion of the saints.

I would, this is perhaps a little bit of a parallel, but this is something that we've been exploring for quite some time as well. And really the inspiration for our series, Ecosystemic Futures, right? The notion that the world is more interconnected than perhaps our current paradigms have led us to believe or behave, right?

our world is necessarily more interconnected and becoming even more so. This notion of compartmentalization, secularization, I think has held us back from the true potential of of what lies in front of us here i the i would i would maybe also challenge us to think about economic orders right so is there is there an economic system an economic model that could

perhaps be a more a system of abundance and flourishing if we were to apply some of these same principles john you mentioned empathy right and perhaps establishing more beneficial and harmonious connections transactions collaborations exchanges right so the the systems in which we live and and operate are in large part zero-sum game types of systems they're very extractive very exploitative and specialized and compartmentalized but if we

If we change our paradigm, to your point, and I think we are being challenged to change and elevate our paradigms of thinking and behaving, can we achieve that? that greater state of harmony and abundance. And I think this is all connected. And this also gets back to Diana, your point earlier. There's something about the character, right, that is keeping us from that resonance within a broader system, right? Those connections. If we are...

courageous enough to evaluate our character and meditate on our connections? Does that help us to perhaps achieve that greater state of resonance and abundance? I don't know. I think it's a good start because we have to start somewhere. But my thinking is that we've lost the communities that support us in doing that. that community, that's probably why one of the last visions of the entity called the Virgin Mary was seen in Garabandau.

was because that was such a faithful community and it was easy to access those girls because it was set up. Do we have communities of people? There are. faithful communities that believe in NHI all over the world. We are secular. We compartmentalize science from religion. But ironically, 85% of the world's population are members, affiliates. of some religion so so belief in in god belief in nhi is actually quite high yes we're compartmentalizing ourselves to your point diana yes

Yeah, in fact, even in the scientific arena, we're being dragged kicking and screaming into being forced to face up to this. So, for example, among quantum theorists, we talk about quantum entanglement. that there are connections that expand out from people and from objects and so on and so one of the big things

theories was, well, if that's the case, but human beings aren't quantum. I mean, they have brains and it's all running on the basis of electrical signaling and chemical kinds of things and so on. But in fact, there's work. being done by Roger Penrose, Nobel Prize winner, and his colleague, the anesthesiologist, Stu Hameroff, where they have found that, in fact, despite thinking that

Nothing could be quantum in a human. They found microtubules that are parts of the human biological structure that appear to, in fact, be sensitive to quantum signaling. So the idea that you don't need to freeze everything down to absolute zero to get some quantum effects, but that in fact there are these microtubules that are in human physiology, which in fact can pick up quantum signaling.

And so that's forcing the community to take a broader view of the fact that there may actually be, quote, physical reasons why people are. more connected to each other and to their environment than we usually give them credit for. The science of initiation as I understand it is about intention. Entanglement and resonance. And you're talking about resonance, Diane. And that's what it's about. Yes, being able to resonate. Resonate with what? With an intention.

And that might be the universal love concept and the entanglement, the being able to connect as well with that. Fascinating, fascinating.

So with that entanglement, I think it's important to acknowledge that obviously that's with other beings, right? So it's with humans. but it's also with other beings. I think we also wanted to take the opportunity, since you're here, John, to talk about... the respect and the protection also of those other beings. And you and I, we had a place that we won't go into specifics on the place.

a place in europe and i just wanted to see what you wanted to share about some of the anomalous phenomena and and some of the important beings yes so could we just be before we go there yes in the south of france yeah Absolutely. I just wanted to ask Diana something, but we can discuss that. With respect, Diana. What did you want to ask Diana?

You mentioned something about the rocket program and Jack Parsons and so forth. And I think Jack Parsons, if I'm not mistaken, was working with someone like L. Ron Hubbard as well. And they were doing Enochian magic based on... correct and alistair crowley's babylon working is that is that yeah yeah i mean by the way if you read the letters of jack parsons to alistair crowley you'll see that he's not thinking. A lot of people think that he's doing demonism or that he's actually not.

He's not, he doesn't perceive what he's doing as that. He perceives what he's doing as real and that this is working for him. So I just wanted to say that, yeah, he was absolutely doing that. He was doing that. and it was related to the technologies that he was creating as well So this is very interesting because I polled a Mormon friend of mine recently about the idea of UAPs and NHI, and they said, well, our doctrine speaks very openly.

about the plurality of worlds and that we can go on to live in other worlds, etc., etc. And I was exposed to some information many years ago, and I have the data here, that Joseph Smith... was involved in using certain ritual elements. Again, going back to Enochian magic, the idea of being able to contract a relationship with something at a higher scale of being.

And I think that that being that he spoke about was Moroni, and then, of course, there was John the Evangelist who appeared to him. But where I'm trying to go with this is... In terms of something called, I believe it's called Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard, if I'm not mistaken, he was very much involved with Jack Parsons and he was very much involved in this ritual work. Yes, he was.

And Diana and Hal and Diane and Anna, bear with me here. But is it possible that just like Crowley... entangled himself with some sort of being that then dictated information for him to write some of that was that some of that potentially was demonic right i mean so i'm not i'm not gonna say yes

No, because I'm just going to ask the question, is it possible that... just like Jack Parsons was getting information, that someone like L. Ron Hubbard could have entangled himself with a source of information, which may have given him some of the technologies, some of the ideas for this. what's called religion of Scientology. Is that possible? Or is that happening a lot more often? And is it with people? But in this context, it's done through what we would call ritual magic. Is that correct?

what you'd refer to it as is diana i mean the thing is is that he was right so l ron hubbard and jack parsons had a pretty terrible falling out and part of the reason why our space program doesn't want to go into that history is because it looked pretty seedy right it wasn't something that i wouldn't have wanted him as a neighbor let's put it that way

And then Anna has noted the demonic. So yeah, a lot of them were utilizing this for hurting other people. And I think that that's a bad use of that. those kinds of practices so whereas they had a self-perception that it was an okay use i think that the general population would say this doesn't look good in terms of In terms of Scientology, L. Ron Hubbard began, he was writing science fiction. So he wrote a lot of science fiction and he started, and then he...

He then started a church that he then called Scientology, which is recognized as a church in some countries, and in some countries it is not recognized as a church. Okay, so, but I don't know very much about Scientology, but do they not use certain technology, mental, do they not have exercises and things that they go through to help to end the bias loops? and things like that in individuals to help them develop beyond the limitations of their programming? Absolutely, they do.

And so Crowley had this entity, I understand, called Lamb, I think he referred to it as. And if you see the drawing that he made of Lamb, it looks like what we consider a classical bulbous-shaped head alien. And, yeah, I do not doubt that there are, quote unquote, demonic influences here. And this is why it's so very important to address this, because are we dealing? with angels and demons here, angels with technology, angels that have biological residue, that leave technological devices.

In their wake of visitations at times, I don't know, but is it possible that one of the things that we need to be very careful of at this point is... people who are engaging entities that are not so much concerned with the preservation of the gift of life that comes from God, but are in fact interested in... destroying that life or in manipulating it and managing it and controlling it for its own purposes? Is that something that with phenomenology, is that something that we should look at?

That there needs to be a certain holy person or there needs to be people within a certain state of grace to be able to embark on these relationships. And is someone like Chris Bledsoe one of those people? Because. Well, and he speaks quite a bit of faith. And I think the Diane, I know we've discussed previously the.

When you talk about these energetic phenomena, or John, when we talk about portals, any of this space-time metric engineering, some would say the diversity of what can pass through, some of that being very positive, some of that being negative. And certainly there's a framing of angels and demons, but there can also be just the framing of positive, highly negative, somewhere in the middle. And so the discernment elements of this.

Diana, I don't know if you have something to share with us on the discernment. I only have the historical record which has put into place ways of... dealing with NHI, which had been framed as angels and demons. In almost all the major religious traditions, you have this, which I think we need to take a look at. That's all I'm suggesting. I'm not suggesting any specific person or even a structure. I don't even advocate for that. I'm just suggesting...

that we utilize a scientific method and what we have at our disposal is academics and scholars to look at this with open eyes and look at the data and what does the data say. That's all I'm advocating for. Well, that's 100% what I advocate for as well. And now in the Templars tradition, do they speak to these deeper issues? Absolutely. Absolutely. In fact, we prepared something to share with you all today. And if you'll bear with me, I'd like to share it with you. OK, so it says.

Everything is possible, sounds beautiful, but is it truly achievable? The greatest obstacles to infinite possibilities are paradoxically the current structure of human society, science, culture, and fundamental concepts. Why is that? Because of the limitations imposed upon us through these very concepts. The perception of both individual and the human race is restricted by the laws of science, culture, social structures, and everything that constitutes modern reality.

Is genuine human progress possible? Progress that entails a true evolution of mankind, an evolutionary leap, both biological and spiritual, a fundamental... and complete evolution, not just the advancement of tools that humanity uses to compensate for its deficiency, but an actual transformation that surpasses. the constraints of perception. Yes, a real and unique evolutionary leap for humanity is possible, but it requires a comprehensive

comprehensive and irrevocable transformation of both the individual and the entire human race. It demands the dismantling of all limitations that shape our perception and the narratives that have governed us for millennia. This transformation, which could be called the rebirth of the world, presupposes the use of specific tools and procedures that enable the transition of each individual and all of existence into an entirely new environment, a new perception.

one that embodies infinite possibilities without restrictions or limits in any form, scientific, cultural, societal. If you have ever questioned the nature of reality and the world around you, you have likely encountered the ultimate boundary set by scientific, cultural, religious, and other limitations, an endpoint that appears to be the only possible solution, beyond which no further explanation or potential exists.

However, the very concept of infinity negates these limitations, opening the door to something that from our current evolutionary standpoint can only be defined as nothingness. Beyond these ultimate limitations, there exists nothing, and it is within this nothing that the answer to our question lies. Everything is nothing, and precisely because everything is nothing, everything is possible.

This one simple sentence completely eradicates all restrictions, particularly those hindering social and scientific progress. The result will be a new society, a new humanity that through this transformation will be both individually and collectively ready for a true and complete biological. or spiritual evolutionary leap forward.

This leap, which has already begun for certain individuals, brings about a transformation in perception and understanding of the invisible world that exists around and within us. This world operates under different laws and principles, unrestricted by any other constant.

The phrase, I have seen the world around me, will be replaced with, I have felt the world around me and within me. What machines will enable this process? Well, there are no machines for it. There is only a group of individuals known as humanity.

Humanity is the only machine capable of executing and completing this process, but this is only possible under the condition that humanity undergoes a complete transformation within itself, becoming a generator of the energy necessary to create from nothing. Or emptiness, the essential material, the keystone, that fifth element which allows and facilitates both material and spiritual evolution. Each individual builds themselves in their own progress, embedding it into the collective vessel of...

the keystone's accumulation. This would be the only meaningful advancement of humanity since its inception. How is this process guided? This process is guided by individuals who have already initiated their own internal transformation, individuals who have begun transforming their environment, society.

science and culture through precisely defined principles applied both to themselves and to others. The key factors and formulas are not mathematical. They pertain to humanity itself and to the community. They manifest as internal transformers such as For the purposes of this project, the meanings of these virtues may not fully align with the conventional interpretations, but we're going to say faith, hope, love, justice, wisdom, courage, moderation.

balance and control. Together, when applied and blended correctly, these elements form what could be called the Holy Grail, the essential catalyst that enables the transformation necessary for synchronizing humanity to the point where the transition into a new dimension of human existence begins. Thank you so much, John.

There's so much there. And I know there's so much of these conversations. That is beautiful. Al and Diana, is there anything that you would like to add as we close out? I'd actually thank you all. Thank you, Anna, for making this possible. And it was wonderful to have this conversation with Diane and John in hell. Well, thank you very much. That was so beautiful, John. Thank you. Thank you all. And not only for this conversation, but.

for challenging and advancing the paradigms i just i think that we are we are standing in a another renaissance moment for humanity the the potential for beneficial experiences and outcomes is really unlimited and and it is in no small part informed by what you all are doing and leading so thank you so much

for this. And I do hope that this conversation continues. I know our listeners will deeply appreciate it. Again, Just for our listeners, just to recap again, again, this conversation, we were hoping to embrace the dance between what we know, what we observe, what we believe, and what we don't yet understand, but will. in good faith seek to understand and explain and explore so fascinating conversation appreciate you appreciate our listeners and for our listeners if you

appreciated this. Please subscribe and please follow us in our channels at Shoshamworks.com or your favorite podcast sources. And we hope you've enjoyed this conversation as much as we have.