¶ Intro
Welcome to the ECKANKAR Soul Adventure Podcast, where we look into the question - Is There More to Life than What We See? I'm your host, Doug Kunin. You're invited to listen, raise your spiritual IQ as we explore life-changing experiences with dreams, past lives, out-of-body journeys, as well as everyday miracles and amazing awakenings of wisdom, love, and Spiritual Freedom. So prepare for discovery as we embark on
today's adventure. When it comes to our pets, whether cat, dog, furry, feathered, or finned, we all recognize there's way more going on than what we see. Some people might ask, Do animals have an eternal Soul? What happens when a pet dies? And then people might also ask, Well, what's different about Eckankar's perspective on these questions? I'm quoting now from one of the Eckankar books. "If you have a pet, you are aware of the bond of love between
yourself and your pet. This bond of love exists because you are Soul, a particle of God sent here to gain spiritual experience, ultimately, to learn how to give and to receive divine love. What most people don't realize is their pet is also Soul. Animals are Soul too." That's from a book called Animals Are Soul Too by the spiritual leader of Eckankar, Harold Klemp. Is it possible that our pets reincarnate? Our guests today are going to answer that question with a story that's nothing short of
miraculous. And stay tuned, because part of their story is backed up by video evidence. Now, not necessarily proof, each person has to come to their own understanding, but evidence that these love-bonds continue from lifetime to lifetime. We have with us today Jamie and Akpovi Obakponovwe. They're a married couple living here in Minnesota, and they grew up in Eckankar on opposite sides of the world, Jamie in the United States and Akpovi, born in Nigeria and grew up in the
United Kingdom. Akpovi works as an engineer, and Jamie works here in Chanhassen, Minnesota, at the Eckankar Spiritual Center. And as you might have guessed, they love their pets. Welcome, Akpovi and Jamie.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thanks, Doug.
So you both grew up with the ECKANKAR teachings. Did you ever think you might have an experience like the one you're about to share?
No, not in my wildest dreams. No. Not at all.
So yeah, I actually did experience getting my pets back a second time, but this experience in particular did take me by surprise.
Great. Well surprise us. Let's hear more.
¶ Prophetic Dream
Okay. So when we first moved to Minnesota, Jamie and I adopted these two beautiful kittens, and we named them Wilma and Louisa, and in fact, these Souls were so unique and special, it was amazing to see how two sisters could be so different. Wilma was the very playful one, but Louisa was very reserved. In all my favorite memories of Louisa was . . . she loved the sun, right? She loved the light. So every time there's a source of light, she
goes on in this light. So she's a dead-gorgeous, beautiful, unique Soul that filled our heart and our house with so much love.
So when they were four years old, it was really surprising, but Louisa got very sick, kind of out of the blue. We thought this would sort of be a trip to the vet and back home and getting on with our lives, but we found out that she had a birth defect and that we may have her for six months, we might have her for a couple of more years. So this all happened the week before we were moving into a new home, and we came home with her and tried to make her as comfortable as we could
and prepare for this move. But within a few days, we could see that she wasn't doing very well. And one night that week, I had a dream with her. She was sitting on a table that was surrounded by glass like she was in a glass room. And around her there was a little semicircle of ECK Masters, spiritual teachers. So I'm watching Louisa with this semicircle of ECK Masters around her and I'm realizing in the dream that she is getting some sort of healing. And this made
me feel so happy. But as the dream was going on, toward the end I had the realization that this healing for her might mean leaving the body that she was in and going into a new experience. And in many ways, this dream prepared me for the possibility that she would translate, or pass away, and move on.
So shortly after Jamie had that dream experience, the next day I think, Louisa actually did translate and passed on.
So the next few months were really tough on all of us, and Wilma didn't seem like herself. And we were also experiencing this very happy time of being in a new home, but it was apparent that Louisa wasn't there. And I was just, I don't know if I've ever experienced such sudden sadness in my life in that way, where she was there one day, and she was sort of gone the next. So I just felt this sadness. So one of the things that I did is I started asking the Mahanta for
help. You know, the Mahanta is the highest state of consciousness, and a way that I think of that is it's the highest expression of divine love. It's an invitation to receive the highest love into our lives in whatever we're going through. So sometimes that comes in the dream, or just a feeling of love can come into your heart. You may get a healing or an insight. But in this case, I was asking to have some kind of connection with Louisa because I wanted to just
be with her again. I wanted to share more with her about how much I loved her.
So one day while we're in this new house, I decided to
¶ Can Pets Reincarnate?
go for a run. So Jamie happened to be working on a project where she needed to come up with an inspirational story. I got dressed and I stepped out the front door to the street, and I noticed from the side of my eye a little bird at the base of the tree. I thought, That's odd. As I looked closer at this bird, it wasn't flying away, and it looked like it was in a little bit of distress. So I'd seen this bird and I'm thinking, What would love do now? And in that instant, I got this nudge: Get
Jamie. She would know what to do. So I open the front door and I said, Hey, Jamie, there's a little bird outside that's in distress. I think you'll probably want to come outside and take a look.
So I went outside and sure enough, there's this very small bird - he has all of his feathers - sitting under the tree, very still, very tall, just kind of looking at the two of us. And I got a little bit closer to the bird and closer and closer, and pretty soon I was about an inch away from the bird, just inspecting him from different angles to see . . . Is he injured? Is there something
that seems wrong with him? And he seemed fine, and he actually seemed really comfortable with me being close to him.
So I told Jamie to go in to get a box or towel. So as soon as she was back, I just left and went for the run so she could have her space to have her experience with this bird. So off I went on my run.
So I got back with the box and the towel and I went over to the little bird and very carefully just sort of scooped it up. Again it just remained really still and I wasn't quite sure what I was going to do yet, so I brought it very carefully up to my shoulder. And after it was next to my shoulder, it sort of leaned its head back a little bit. So I walked around the side of the house. And I wasn't really sure what I was going to do next and thought I would sit down and just do a Spiritual
Exercise. And so I just began singing HU very quietly to see what kind of insights would come about how to help this bird.
Maybe we can set the scene here. So you mentioned doing a Spiritual Exercise which is a session to make the connection with the Holy Spirit, the ECK, the Life Force.
Yeah. So I actually went and sat down on the patio, still holding the bird next to my shoulder. And I sang . . . I decided to sing the HU just quietly to see what insights may come on how to help this bird. So HU is a way of just opening our hearts up to love and the blessings from God and when we need help or inspiration or a next step to take. So in this case I wanted to know what my next step was. So I was just trying to tune in to inner guidance and see how to help him.
What does HU sound like when you're using it? Any voice is okay, because it's such a unique thing, but does someone want to . . .
The HU sounds like this. Huuuuuu . . .
Nice, nice. Yeah. Okay, so you were doing a Spiritual Exercise with the HU.
Yeah. So I was just sitting there for a few minutes, and I did get some inspiration and a next step, which was to go online and look this up, how to help this bird.
Talk about inner guidance to "inter" guidance.
So very carefully, I took the little bird and just put him inside the box with the towel and went inside and I grabbed my phone and looked up what to do for a baby bird that you find on the ground. So I learned really quickly that I needed to get the bird back in the tree, and that the mom would eventually come and help the bird. So I walked back outside and looked in the box, and there was nothing there. And then I started walking out in the yard to see if he hopped away and couldn't
find him anywhere. And I turned around and started walking back toward the house. And I look up because something caught my eye and he was sitting on a branch just looking at me. And the closer I got to him, he . . . as I stepped toward the tree, he started hopping down the branch, and so we were kind of moving toward each other. And when I finally got right up to him, about I guess a few inches from him, we were face to face. So he had just hopped all the way down
the branch. And he turned his head to the side and we were eye to eye. Then all of the sudden my heart started opening. I started to feel this love coming in, and I'm now looking at the bird and he's no longer a bird, you know? Sort of time just kind of stopped and we're just there Soul to Soul. And the next moment I said, "Louisa, is that you?" and he stretched his neck.
I did not know birds could stretch their necks this tall, but he stretched his neck so tall and kind of bopped his head around and then put his head back down as if to say "Yes, it is me." But I didn't believe it. I said, "Louisa, is this really you?" So sure enough, she does the same thing again, and so this love that came in, it just flowed back and forth between us, and I started to realize more and more that this
beautiful Soul was back. She found her way back into my life for us to have this moment. And then I started thinking, "Gosh, you know, when she was a cat, she really liked having her belly rubbed, and so I thought I would just try this out and see did she remember. It would just be more proof that
she was here. And so very carefully I just petted the front of her chest and her stomach, and she sort of like leaned into my hand and it was this very, just precious, tender moment that seemed perfectly normal as it was happening. And so after a while, I thought Well, I wonder if she wants to see her sister again. So I went inside to get Wilma, because, you know, mixing cats with birds seems perfectly normal. But I scooped Wilma up and brought her outside and we were probably
a foot away from the bird. And normally birds would let everyone in the neighborhood know there was a cat around or fly away and be ruffled, but the bird just sat there and looked at her. And Wilma had no tension in her body. She just let me hold her as if there wasn't a bird there. And she looked at the bird. And so we had this moment for a while. And then eventually, I brought Wilma back inside and came back, and right as I walked back to the tree, the mom had flown down and was
feeding the little bird. And then they sort of followed each other from limb to limb till they got to the top of the tree, and they flew away.
Now, I understand that you actually got some video of that moment when you were stroking the bird's chest. The one hand you've got the cell phone with video and the other hand you're stroking her.
Yes. Yes.
Yes, we have this on tape. And when you're done listening to this episode, you can go to the show notes. And there's a link to an article that Jamie wrote for Eckankar's Animal's are Soul Blog, and imbedded in the blog article, it's about a seventeen-second video that you can click on and watch this happening, this amazing moment. So you're gonna want to check that out. So the story continues.
So meanwhile, I was on my run, and that had come to a stop. I thought, I wonder how Jamie's getting on with this bird. So I pick up my phone and I call Jamie and she answered the phone and the first thing she says, "Honey, you're not going to believe this. It's Louisa." And you know, as an engineer . . . and another thing I love about ECK teachings, you don't have to take everything at face value. You can ask questions and find out
for yourself. I'm like, Okay, I believe in reincarnation, I believe in all this, but you're gonna have to prove to me that this is actually Louisa. And then I saw the video. And there was no doubt that this Soul was a Soul that I knew very, very well.
Wow, this is just an amazing journey and an amazing adventure you had that day. So Jamie and Akpovi, when you look back on this experience, what are your key spiritual takeaways and lessons?
I think for me, the Soul to Soul connection was just all love, you know, all love and being grateful that experience and that moment to connect the Soul, which is in fact a lifetime.
The sorrow that I had been feeling was lifted into almost a place of gratitude because I could see for myself this beautiful, eternal journey that Soul is on, that she was getting to stretch her wings and have a new experience
Literally!
Yes.
Such a gift to know that Soul is eternal, and even when Soul leaves our current life, there will be a reunion somewhere along the way.
Yeah.
¶ Words of Wisdom from Sri Harold Klemp
And that does fit in with an audio clip we're going to play of Sri Harold Klemp, the Spiritual Leader of Eckankar, talking about these bonds of love that span eternity.
I mentioned I believe last time I gave a talk here about one of the radio talk show hosts, very big into politics. But then when people even suggest that animals have feelings, he just completely slams down the concrete door and you just cannot listen to it anymore, you know. Animals are animals, you know? What do you expect from animals, you know? Well, those of you who have pets know that there is this bond of love that exchanges back and forth between yourself and your pet. And that's all
that, that's to it. And the reason there is this bond of love is because you are Soul, and what most people don't realize is that your pet is also Soul. And Soul exists because God loves it. Very simple. Soul exists because God loves it. And when two Souls set up a bond of love, it is stronger and more enduring than eternity. And it doesn't matter if two Souls are human beings or if one of them happens to be a bird or a dog or a cat and the other is human.
Now I know this would be shocking to most people who go to church on a Sunday morning to hear this and say, What? Animals and birds are Souls? And you notice, I don't say have Souls but are Souls. Because Soul comes into the lower worlds and takes on a form, according to its state of consciousness.
That to me just shows that God's love for Soul doesn't differentiate between what body they are in, you know.
I think what really lit up for me with that clip is when he says that these love bonds are stronger than eternity. There was that part of me when Louisa passed, like, How will I recognize her? Will I really know it's her even if she does come back? Just that little question there. And we all recognize Divine Love.
¶ The Secret of All Relationships: Opening the Heart to God's Love
One thing that I noticed you did in your experience when you had the bird on your shoulder and were wondering what to do next was you did a Spiritual Exercise. And there's just so many ways to do the Spiritual Exercises of ECK. Sri Harold Klemp has given many, including two that I think are particularly appropriate here because we are talking about relationships. And there's a book called ECK Wisdom on Relationships. And so in this next segment of the podcasts, this is our Try Your Wings
segment. Of course, you may catch the metaphor with the wings part. So I want to share this. And it's interesting, because this comes from a chapter in the book called, get ready, "The Secret of All Relationships." So we're going big here. And what he says here is, "If you love something, you have to nurture it. Like anything else, you have to put your full attention on it." Then he gives the example of two people who are in love in the courting stage and they're glommed on to each
other. They're always gazing deeply into each other's eyes. And he says, "During courtship when two people are looking at each other very directly, there's the power of love in the gaze of one human being upon [the] beloved. They can actually feel the power in it." He says their attention on each other, "this is the nourishing power of love, or the ECK." And so he talks about just simply, at least once a day, "give the object of your attention or the person of your heart your full
love. Even if just for a little while, listen to what they are saying. During this time, you're putting the little self aside. It's directly looking at the person you love, even after you are married. This is when the nurturing occurs and when the relationship is strengthened." That's an easy way to build those love connections. We're going to do a little Spiritual Exercise here, and feel free to visualize along or just listen to this exercise adapted from the relationships
book. Here we go. You can be a "magnet for love. Look at others as if they are carriers of God's love to you. In fact, they are. The next point is important. You must consciously open your heart to God's love, which [always and forever is] flowing out to you like a quiet mountain stream. It's easy to do." In this Spiritual Exercise, "sing HU. in your mind and heart, watch this quiet stream of God's love flow gently into your heart and being. It will change you."
Huuuu . . .
This has been quite a journey. We really enjoyed this. Thank you, Akpovi and Jamie for being here with us today. It's been great.
Thank you, Doug. It was so much fun.
Thank you so much, Doug.
And again you can check out Jamie's article on the Animals Are Soul Blog at animalsaresoul.blog. It's in the show notes. You can link to that article directly and it's called "The Cat Teaches that Love is Eternal," and that very cool video is there. All right, and all of you out there, we'll see you next time on The ECKANKAR Soul Adventure Podcast.