Hey, welcome everybody. I want to thank all of you guys for jumping in tonight. Here we are nine pm. We're running a couple of minutes behind. It's nothing new with us anyway. So again I want to welcome everybody here. I want to bring the crew in here and our guest.
Uh.
I think we're gonna have another great podcast tonight, very interesting discussion.
I'm looking looking forward to seeing where this is going to go tonight.
So for you guys, there's no strangers here Melissa and David Lester, and tonight we have mister TeV the stars.
Uh.
I'm gonna ask him if I butchered his last name?
Nailed it?
Oh good good.
I have a habit of destroying and butchering people's name, so.
As well as yours. Las name.
Yeah, a lot of them are familiar with it because they you know, they follow wrestling and everything. You know, a lot of them. Ben wah is kind of a It's seems to be common with some people.
Then again, like what what you know?
I've heard a pronounce it with letters that don't even exist in it, Like, oh, butnog, where.
Do you get that from? You know?
I don't get it but it's whatever. Well, Keviv, I want to thank you for coming on tonight. Uh, this is great that you're gonna be with us tonight, and uh, you know, I'm excited to see where this is gonna go.
Uh yeah me, oh for sure, for sure.
We do have a live chat.
I'm sure you know you're you're no strangers of these podcasts. I'm sure you understand how they go. Uh yeah, we do try our best to pay attentions to the live chat, which I'm gonna try to bring it up right now.
Yeah, that's great. I'll do this a lot for work, so I will be happy to chime in on an answer any questions that I get real time if I.
Can, oh a good deal. Well, I think we should go ahead jump right into this.
We got people already with us watching we get the live chat, you know, go there right now. So could you take back, you know, kind of what got you involved with the whole research?
I mean, yeah, what brought you into all this?
Yeah, well again before I get started things again, Daniel and David and Melissa, nice to meet you. Thanks for having me the show. So this all kind of started back in about it was about nineteen ninety five, that is when the Internet was starting to come online. And I always kind of joke that I had my mean millennium, which is like a type of you know, Microsoft computer, and the first the first thing I, you know, would search for was Bigfoot, and I happened upon a bfur
a website. But even before then, you know, I think it takes it. I take it back to I would always get in trouble a lot because I would always want to watch scary movies as a kid, and the monster movies, and I would get in trouble because I would always keep me up late. But then I think it was right about they came out in eighty seven. But then Harry and the Henderson's obviously very much affected my life. I'm drinking the mug here, so it's definitely stayed with me obviously.
But that was just watch yeah real quick.
I just watched that last night for the first time with my grands I've seen it numerous signs. Yeah, grandson, I got to watch it for the first time yesterday.
Yeah, he's five, So.
What do you think of it?
I've I liked it.
I mean he was slapping at it, you know, So I was going to enjoyed it.
Well, I mean what you might not know, Daniels, you might have planted the Bigfoot bug in him, so now forever more he might want to be chasing it. But because that's what happened to me, I saw that movie and I and I Bigfoot was always kind of in like, you know, the peripheral. I kind of heard about it, you know, going up on Wisconsin. I mean we've had our own stories of things like that here. That was that was probably the genesis, if you will, of what
what is this? I need to explore more? So I would I would say that movie was it?
Yeah? Absolutely did get Did that get involved in any groups that you've joined up to go and exploring with or you do it on your own? Yeah?
You know what, David, So, I actually by researching the b f O Bigfoot Field Research or Organization, you know, that was the first tipping point of Oh, and then obviously the finding Bigfoot show and then realizing that you can go out there and you pay to have you Yeah, and he kind of brought into these high activity spots, so to speak. And so that's actually where I picked up with the bf RO O. I never I guess never became an actual member or had gotten ever tapped
on the shoulder to do any investigation. I mean I was still in college, going to school, trying to finish things up, starting work, Like I just didn't have the time to become an investigator. But that was the I mean I went. I went on several expeditions, but in fact it was the first one in Los Alamos, New Mexico, which was the one where we had basically a Class B experience. We I'm happy to get into that right away if you'd like, But that's that's where things got kicked off there.
Well, yeah, what is it. I'm not familiar with classes as far as that Class B. See what they have if Daniel knows, we haven't gotten that part with Daniel and that we will be within five years. But I know they're different category took.
Janna, Do you want to go ahead and explain that?
Uh?
Well, I could try my best.
I know Class AS, like the top up there is actually a visual fighting, uh I know the other ones I'm not familiar with. Class A is only more of the ones I'm more clean on because I know that's like a clear, straight visual I don't want to butcher up the other ones. I mean, one's more like sometimes they can be related to vocals and close activity, but.
That's and that's that's basically a class B is anything vocal that you hear. So and and in fact we I'm happy to get into more of the detail the story.
But oh yeah, feel free, all right.
So setting this up, so Los almost this was our first expedition. This was where I actually have brought in a family member with me just to just kind of see what this whole experience with the b f R O was like. You know, for those who are familiar with or maybe not familiar with finding Bigfoot, this was met Moneymaker's kind of organization of groups of people throughout the entire US who are kind of in each state more or less besides Hawaii, who are finding Bigfoot. Right.
So at this point in time, I was kind of living in Texas and so it wasn't the farthest drive to get to New Mexico. So that's where we decided to go. And this is where everything kind of kicked off. Like I had said, and you know, the first night and I wasn't super familiar with camping. I would just put that out there. I wasn't.
No, I didn't.
I didn't know what I was seeing or hearing or you know, my eyes were still kind of getting used to the forest and how dark it can actually get, and what shapes and things look like in shadow against the you know, the backdrop of a fire. You know, So those were when you have those kind of dancing shadows and things like that, you're you're kind of just in for the ride. But what it really was. So the first night we kind of you know, sat around, talked about things of what the three day was going
to entail. And the first night when we did finally kind of go out, I mean already immediately we already kind of had heard some what was you know, this is kind of a buzzword for some of those, but this very lumbrous walking where you heard this crunch, crunch, crunch, and it had a rhythm to it, which just was
it seemed like this was a tall being. This was maybe about one hundred yards perhaps you know, again being new to the woods, that that's just what I can surmise that that's how far it was away, and so this was maybe about one hundred yards, but you kind of hear this walking and then nothing really happened, but it was kind of exciting because you know, we're radioing in like are you hearing this? Is anyone else there?
Like who could be there? And you know, the leaders of this group was saying everyone's accounted for and unless it's someone just walking in the woods, it's but it's bipedal. That's That's the big takeaway there for that was night one. Night two is where really changed my life because we we were there was this actually this trail that went down kind of where our tent was, and it just kind of meandered. We didn't know quite where it went, you know, it's just this kind a hiking trail, if
you will. So then it was me again family, remember, and this other fella and then another guy and then one of the other kind of leaders if you will, of the bf row and this guy. Just to put this out there, this guy was like six seven six eight, I mean he was a tall fella. What I recollect
and so I'll get back to why that's important. But we decided to kind of go down this path, all five of us, but then it kind of split off and so this the tall fella and another person they kind of took one direction, myself, family member, and this other guy we went the other and we kind of huddled and said, you know, let's let's just what do we what's our game plan? And I kind of said,
you know, let's just try this. Let's let's see if we can kind of walk every thirty feet or so and stop in the shadows of these you know, these trees that are kind of really well lit because it was a very full moonlight. And I think that's important because a lot of bigfooters will kind of tell you that maybe no moon is best, or half moon or
full moon. But I have to say that the best experiences that I've ever had is with the full moon, and up in this Los Alamos area that you know, up in the mountains, it was so deadly quiet that you you could actually kind of hear your pulse beating in your ear. There was no flies, no mosquitos, no nothing, no wind. So as we're kind of continuing this little test of starting and stopping in the shadow line of these trees, we came to a stop and we kind
of were paused. Well, sure enough, there was this little trickle pebble just kind of came down this mountainside or hill, and we kind of looked and you know, you're supposed to kind of give coordinator or you know, kind of give a clock reference as did you hear your six? Yeah, I didn't. I didn't catch it. Yeah I caught it something like that. But everyone kind of heard this pebble that me and these two other guys, and so we didn't have then this is on us. We were novice,
but we didn't have any recording equipment. We didn't have any night vision that came later and expeditions. It was just us, just us there experiencing. So we acknowledge that there was this kind of this pebble that trickled down and I didn't see anything. I mean, you can again you can kind of see into the forest because of this this moon was so bright, but didn't see anything.
Maybe we took another ten or twenty steps to get further down into this trail, and then we heard this deep and then again buzzword kind of guttural growl that was so deep in the base. Literally it kind of I can still remember, like your shirt just kind of trembles a little bit on your chest and if I can reenact at the best they can, but it came across as kind of this and it just kind of we all looked at each other and this was it was an immediate reaction of stop, go back, do not
come any further. That was the sentiment that, like we we had gotten in a million things are kind of rushing through again a new person's head thinking well, that wasn't a wolf, it wasn't a cat, maybe a bear like these things would have maybe let themselves know or not know that they're there because they're going to try to you know, eat you or whatever it might be. But this thing let us let us know that it was there and not to I mean again, the sentiment I got was don't come any further.
Wow, what you imitated there reminds me of David before his coffee after.
No. Could you back us up on? I'm curious what state is this taking place?
This is in New Mexico, Yeah, yeah, and New Menestaco is an interesting, you know state because there are there are you know, mountain ranges like Monkey you know Monkey Mountain and things like that which are borrowed from you know, the Indians are Native Americans in that area, and that's directly because of I believe their experiences and so they're they're naming those areas like that. So this was Los Alamos and so when that happened, we all kind of said,
all right, we're we're out of our element. We need to go back. We need to radio this, you know, b FRO leader, the big guy, So finally radioed him once we kind of got into signal. He said, yeah, you know, come, we're at the pass or we'll meet you at that where we kind of split up, but you can kind of start walking our direction. So we we finally got to the splitting up point, we kind
of started heading in their direction towards their path. And and this is a part of the story where I don't know quite what to make of it, but I'll share it because I believe some others have had experiences like this. But I saw this grapefruit with a larger kind of glow around it orb the light that was in the forest. And at first I said, oh, you know,
I think I see you. You're right there, and he responded back and it's like, there's no way, like you got to walk a good ten minutes before you're even like around anywhere where we are, Like that's not us, and I didn't make it again, didn't make anything of it, okay, like the mission is to get grouped together. Didn't think anything of it to kind of fast forward the next day when I did go back to where we were and to think about what it was that I saw.
That light was actually in the middle of a tree line twenty thirty feet above the ground because they kind of dipped, actually the path dipped and this tree line, so like that wasn't a person.
About how far away? Average? What would you get.
Thirty yards thirty forty yards? I mean fifty fifty Yeah, I mean it was enough to be like, oh, there they are. Because I said it out loud. The guys I was with heeard it like oh where, But so I see this thing and like I said, it was this kind of ambush glow which I thought was actually the red glow of a headlamp, nightlight, the headlamp right, No, it wasn't them. We met up. Told this person his name is Bill, told Bill what happened. We walked back.
This is where we got ground that we kept walking and actually got we reached a meadow, gorgeous meadow. The moon again was just lighting everything you could see down it up.
It.
It was just kind of this a little bit of like an incline or decline if you will. But then on the other side there's another forest line. Well let's keep walking. As we're kind of walking through this meadow, Bill says to me and the rest of us, now, I'm going to stop you because I just need to make sure that if anything happens, and if we get bluff charged, to put your head down and just sit
down and don't look at it in the eyes. Like as if this was an African safari and someone was telling us, hey, if a silver back guerilla looks at you in charges, just sit down and don't look at it in the eyes. It was the same thing. And at that moment I had to really reflect quickly of what it is that we're doing here and acknowledge that if something does happen, Number one, I have to acknowledge that this thing exist and to not lose my you know, dinner.
And then number two, I have to just sit down calmly. Right, you just give a verbal yep, sure works for us, and you keep moving. So that's what we did. We all kind of gave this verbal you know, acceptance. We kept going. As we kind of reached again this was the meadow was maybe only about you know, eighty yards if that, you know, across, and we were already kind of there. So this was a very quick acknowledge and continue.
And so then once we finally got to just about twenty feet from the edge of the next forest line, Bill kind of whipped out this, you know, wood blocker. Let me try something, and so he hits this wood blocker. Nothing, I think you did it again. Nothing. Okay, well, let's continue, let's see what happens. As soon as we got maybe about ten or again another twenty feet into this forest line, this is when we actually had a tree get you know, cracked, crunched.
It starts coming down. You hear the leaves hitting other leaves and twigs and things are popping, and it's just coming down. And this was maybe I would say fifty yards from where we were, if that even. What is very what was very alarming at this point is that all of a sudden, there was this massive rumble that
started happening. And sure enough, there was mountain cattle that was in this forest line, about thirty of them that all had gotten up and just it was a stampede out of that forest line into the meadow and you could see it and it was just like it was.
It was.
I didn't know what was happening, and I was kind of say this part of the story where I'll be vulnerable and share that I reached back for that family member because I thought this might be it. I wasn't quite sure what was going to happen. And what was interesting about that is we were, you know, five guys with boots and gear and crap and just kind of
walking that none of that spooked this cattle. What spooked his cattle was the fact that there was this massive you know, not massive, but like there was a good and we checked it later on five to six inch in diameter. I mean, that's not nothing intrigue. It kind of cracked and popped and pushed down. That spooked them.
So once they all kind of ran out down and they kind of settled down again, one of the guys did have I think a flour or some type of a night vision camera, and so he goes, I'm trying to get my camera and he didn't quite know how to work it, which kills me every time I tell this story. But it's like give it to somebody, you know, like what are you doing? And we were just trying to try to get our bearings and trying to understand what's happening in the cattle and like where is this thing?
What's going to happen next? And then you just hear this lumbrous crunch, crunch, crunch as it just kind of walks further on down and it just kind of disappeared or dissipated, this this walking noise. And at that point we were informed that you know, when typically you get a tree knocked down, game over and you're never a you're never going to like catch up to this thing
and be the next thing that it could do. Might it might be it might start to get aggressive, right, And so it was at that point where we decided maybe we need to head back, regroup, get all the data written down and told and said like that, and maybe we were up for hours after that. I don't even know if we went to bed, not at least not until the morning. But like that was the that was the big I mean talk about a grand finale at your your second night out ever going big footing.
So that was that was that story.
Oh for sure. Then and that's the first time really been in the woods. Is that what you said?
Pretty much? David Yees, I mean that in that capacity, in that capacity, yeah, so I mean I'm not a hunter at that point. I was not a big camping person.
That's fine. I was just curious because you got a lot of it, basically your first let's back up to the light of a second when you've seen that light. Yeah, I'm I'm trying to make a comparison here what we experienced.
Yeah, because it sounds differently. He mentioned amber colors, so I got the amber part. I don't know colors really matter. But as far as the light itself, did it look pure, did it look.
Like a radiated any like energy. Did it illuminate the area around it, or project a beam like a flashlight, or it was just there.
It It was almost as if someone had a turn there red headlamp on, but they were in like a tree stand so where you could see a focal point of it.
It illuminated at one specific spot. It kind of got any kind of the illumination kind of dissipated after maybe about this big This was about the size of it, and then I think about a basketball size was the glow of it, and that was kind of it.
So it didn't behave like a normal type light. That's what I'm trying to get at.
Yeah, yeah, it didn't. It didn't flutter or flicker or oscillate any of that.
Made like a flashlight other than what you presumed it might have been. And it didn't come across like a floodlight a flashlight. No, somebody with the light they could move full moon that night.
Yeah, so therefore.
You still have some ambient light in there, but that did not interfere with the ambient light at all to where it had its own lights towards besides it.
Yeah, I mean this is I would the way I would say it is. Yes, it had its own light source. This was not like a stream of lights. It wasn't something that projected. And at that point we were under enough uh you know, forest cover. The moon was really kind of it was hard to get through that, and so this is where it just was very clear. It's where again I was saying, oh, I see you guys, you're right there and like.
And that's natural. Yeah, because you knew there were other people out there. I'm only asking this this because last may real quick that get a lot of detail for my first time and Daniels with me and two other people, we've seen a white peer light in the woods about maybe eight inches stameter, about forty yards away, about three or four foot off the ground nighttime, around ten o'clock at night, and they ended to protecting the light radiing
anty light. It didn't look like it was electrified or anything like that, just a white round pier of light. I've seen him about two seconds. I got Daniel's attention when he's seen it. He looked at about two seconds, so we've seen it roughly four to five seconds before it take up no extra heat, no nothing, nothing, animals or anything was in that area. It didn't leave back any kind of a heat source. We don't know what that was.
I mean, yeah, and at that point alone, I don't know. Yeah, and I appreciate that. You know, I don't know what it was either. You know, this is where as you get into the Bigfoot conversations and different viewpoints, it kind of does perhaps bring some of the you know, getting another buzzword like the woo, you know.
The rais questions, but we can't pinpoint it racious questions. Yeah, just like we We had other things happened too, But we're out looking for Bigfoot, cryptotype, whatever. But the other things happen when you're looking for that one specific thing. Now that leads into more questions on what the heck is going on out here. Yeah, I mean, we had a lot of things happened besides that, not Bigfoot related, paranormal related. And it's all primitive. Where we will go camping,
it's all primitive. Take in with you, take out what you know, take it out when you leave.
What are there some of those experiences that you both have had if I could ask.
Well, all of us, uh, this past year, for the first time we've been going there for the last three years. September two thousand and twenty four, a couple come down for Pennsylvania real quick, Paul and Cheryl, and I showed them where they could park at the gate to walk to the lake just right out of mile walk to the lake. We were all packing up, getting ready to leave, but they're gonna finish up the weekend because they got down there a little lake. So while we were packing up,
they went for the walk. They came back from the walk a couple hours later, were packed up. We wait for them to get back so we can watch the trailer. You know, it's primitive, but you still gotta be wary of people come around stealing stuff. Just happen out there. They'll sit up on the ridge line with pinoclars and look at some of the campsites around, wait for people to leave, and then they'll go down and hijack the stuff. It's rare that happens, but just the thing. We always
look after each other stuff. But when they got back, we stopped to say goodbye to them, and Cheril says, yeah, I've seen a bear and crazy, Yeah, we're getting out of the trucks. You've seen a bear up on the bankman running down the embankment, across the road, down into the ravine, going down towards the stream Vedess back there. I mean, we've all know what that area is, just about maybe thirty to forty yards from the gate. And I looked at Craig and I says, uh, you know,
I looked at his wife again. I says, when it ran across the road, was on one legs or two? She said, two legs, and as fast as it ran, And the script she gave to me I told her that does not sound like a bear, because bears don't run on two legs like that.
They may get up.
On two legs and hobble fort a little bit kind of fast, but they don't have the bodytructure of the hip structure to be able to run like a primate, run like a person, you know what I mean. But that was that time, then last that was September twenty twenty four, the last May. We seen that ball of light in the woods one night, twenty minutes before that, and another guy with us from Richmond drew before we seen that light to get his head and back to camp.
He's seen eye shine in the off in the field where we left him at two, a couple of sets of eye shine. He couldn't identify what it was. And the grasses out there anywhere from two to four foot high. It spread. It's like an open field forre get into the woodline again because this.
Is a national forest.
Yeah's approaching him, Yeah, that's yeah.
Yeah. That spooked him pretty good, and so much so he started walking away and it was pacing him a little bit. He got out of his whistle and started blowing the whistle, which we didn't know we had we didn't hear no whistle, and that didn't spook it at all. Well, he got spooked. He headed back to camp pretty good pace. Melistened to the back of base camp seeing it's light,
beig bopping about coming back again. Watching. Yeah. Well, Melissa calls on the radio and gave us a brief thing that Drew just seeing some eyes shine in the out of the woods and spook him kind a bit, but a bit. So we turned around, started heading back to camp and about two hundred yards where Drew had his encounters where we see the light and we're still heading back to camp. Uh, that was the order for you. About four thirty five or four yards way. Yeah, And it wasn't in the sky,
it wasn'tup in the trees. It was down towards the ground, almost side level.
Man.
You could tell by your eyes where you're looking at. Okay, And we did have a full moon. Now there was a little bit of ambul light in the woodline. Tega, see shadows here and there and whatnot. But it's pretty dark. But it didn't it didn't throw a beam of light. It didn't light us up like a flashlight. It didn't radiate any ambulight around it.
Yeah, was pretty thick bush.
Yeah yeah, and uh and and and the thing of it is, Daniels seen it, so I know whether fixed on my imagination.
Uh, I think Pete.
My wetted briefly.
Yeah, yeah, sort of briefly he was a little further back behind and looking over in that same area of I don't know what gout's attention, Uless, you heard me and Daniel talking. Uh, But anyway, that's when it seemed like. So we headed back to camp to get Drew's account of what he experienced and stuff like that. Bear in mind, this area here is all in the same general area where Cheryl had her encounter with something running across the road.
We see the light, Drew has his experience in the woodline and mean then a filled towards the woodline and all that was in May. And now this past September, we were out there camping. We didn't see a light. We started having electrical issues, radio's going dead, batteries going dead. Coming back to the law had one with his flashlight because after the weekend by himself my DJAI Action four, I was letting the listenly use it. I was trying to replicate,
replicate a sound. We don't. This is at all primitive. We don't have power lines, power sources, is nothing out there. I mean, this is and out in the woods. And one night I've been recording with this for several years, and this one night, me, Daniel, Craig and Drew went to a campsite that wasn't being occupied, about maybe a quarter a mile a half a mile from where we were camping at it. While we were walking down into where the fire pit was, I picked up this static
on my Action four. You faintly hear it gets a little louder and louder and louder, then just shuts off the lasts for about maybe five or six seconds. My first thought was was it could have been a bug, But then again I didn't hear anything that night, and I didn't discover this until the next day when I was going back and listening to the recordings from the night before, got them involved in it down the recording
part of it. But then that next night, Melissa is one to go out on the hike with it, so I stayed back in base camp, so I was letting there used by Action four when I got it on the chest read to go uh. A little while later, before the guilt was going on the hikes, she came says, by action, can't action? Can turned on by itself. Now, it's not an easy button to push in. You just can't tap and it comes on and it's it's weather proof,
it's got the real hard rubber for what. You got to press in for about a half a second, I mean pressing in for it to make contact. I shut it off. A little while later, I was in the tent getting ready to I was making some coffee and Melissa came back in, so it turned on by itself again. We turned it off, and then she leaves, and then a few seconds later my MP three player on the table inside the tent. I see the light come on. It turned on by itself. I've never had that happen before.
It just don't make any sense now, keeping them up all this is the.
Same area, and it's what I My take on it, though, is that I mean personally, I would I don't know if I.
How much into the correlation and causation side of things with bigfoot. With we don't know there's lights and we don't number one, we don't know.
We don't know, and we can't. We can only tell what we experience, what was happening. People can make their own conclusions. We're not going to jump down the rabbit hole and be saying it's Bigfoot related. We don't know, you know, it could be strictly paranormal for something else. Now we've grew up with paranormal stuff. We've actually gone on video and everything ourselves. But we don't know. But I mean, it's just things are really happening now when
we're camping out. We don't have an explanation for it. That's how I was wanting the correlation between the light you've seen, so I can make a comparison it was. I mean, they're different. You hear stories of lights all over the place, So that's the first time I want to emulated something like what we would see.
No projection of light. It was just there forever how long.
I don't know how long was there before we've seen it, but we only seen it maybe four maybe five seconds at the max. It could have been there a while longer, but then again all that.
Yeah, so the one and I'm going to say that there was and to kind of answer the question here. I mean to me, a good audio recorder is anything that's got an X Y capability. Yeah, that's a microphone direction.
Yeah.
Me and David, we both have.
The omni direction.
Yeah, we both have Zoom and the great devices I have recorded.
Yeah, my chief.
My, yeah, my chief one I've compared to my zoom, my zoom. I have a two hundred dollars nearly a two hundred dollars doo, and it's excellent, don't get me wrong, But I've learned that the charge on it, it don't last long if you keep recording.
Maybe it's just I need to get better batteries. I don't know. But my cheap one, which I paid there just underfer dollars for.
We looked up to a battery pack. That's what I do with my something like cameras. Yeah, but our chap recorders last and I don't battery power. Yeah, but the zooms don't. I guess it's just the way they made, you know, they.
Use a lot more energy or a lot more juice.
I got to find up to a battery pack when I set it out for overnight recording. We'll leave our recorders out early evening till next morning and then go back and do it all night long.
Yeah.
There. So the one or I mean it or right a light source. So the one in New Mexico was more was round. I mean that was like a you know, I couldn't get him around in a basketball. The the next one was more and nothing really happened here from like a bigfoot standpoint of the other. This light that we had seen, this was in actually the Sam Houston
National Forest in Texas. And this is where this light source was more oval, I mean almost to the point like it came from you know, an early nineties Cadillac tail light, that's how big and bright. And this was more red. This came on again as soon as you acknowledged it that it came on, and it was there
and it came off. But this was maybe two or three hundred or so year like two yards I would say, like one hundred or sow one hundred and twenty yards away, but again more of a flat plain area into a forest line. You see this kind of light that had definitely a little bit more of a reddish pinkish hue to it. And we were there and this wasn't supposed to be the exact the spot that we were supposed
to go to in sam Houston. And I tried looking this up and I'm gonna mention it just in case anyone else can, you know, do their investigation into it. But there was a torn up camp that happened in sam Houston that was actually investigated by the FBI, which we couldn't actually go to our to the camp site that we wanted to. We had to get pushed off to like Grand Central Station with the toilets there and the showers and all that stuff. So we actually couldn't
go camping to this one spot. And so I always thought that that it was a very interesting piece of information to have been told, just because when there's this torn up camp. It turned out to be like, well then then what's the why is this camp torn up? And we started getting into like the big Foot behavior? Why would something want to tear up a camp that's
typically not what they do? Was it maybe more of a drug related, you know, destroyed camp and something happened, and you know that's why the FBI was there, or was the FBI there because now there was an actual big Foot related I mean, this again kind of gets in more of those kind of conspiracy theory side of stories. But it was an interesting side story to the fact that the only thing that happened on that trip was this more oval elongated reddish light.
So you've seen another light, so you had you you've had that experience twice. Then pretty neat, pretty I believe so.
And this is actually where multiple people saw it again, even even the one of the Bigfoot leaders there b fro leaders. But that we everyone just kind of shrugs and it's like, well, yep, that's awkward, that's not why quite what we're looking for.
But like let's get pinpoint what it is where I come from, what's involved with But there's people that will be firm and say, no, that's big Poot related. I mean, that's you don't know that. I mean as far as that, you know, you got to stand back, rationalize. You can't explain what you're seeing. You just try to find answers, answers as to what is it, why did you see it? And if you can make any kind of discoveries along the way, just you know, continue researching about you know,
what's happening out there. I mean I find it fascinating.
Yeah, well, there's always that possibility there there could be a connection. But you know that's why, you know, there's always apsibility.
All we could just tell people what we see and what we experience. They can make their own conclusions if they if they don't believe us, they don't believe us, they can say what they want. I ain't got no feelings to hurt, you know, I got nowhere you go to bruise. I mean, we we all experience, but we just don't have any answers as to what we experience.
And to that point, David, I think the experiential side of life is going to be more important as AI gets more and more robust. You know, I saw something the other day that was saying that you know pretty soon and if not now, we can't believe our eyes and right exactly. So what I would say there is like, at least in the real world you can go out and potentially have these experiences and not say it's AI.
You You can't trust your phone anymore on your media world to say, oh yeah, this is definitive proof, like I think in one in some ways it's kind of hurting the ability to capture anything on video anymore because everyone's just going to think it's AI.
Exactly.
But at the same time it's actually also forcing people, I think, to get out there in nature, to get out go camping, talk to people who have had experiences, if you're interested in experiencing something like that as yourself. But it's a big kind of if you're an a sayer, and if you say this is a bogus topic, it's like, well, and either you just don't want to believe or you're not interested in it, which is totally fine. But if
you are, you got to get out there. You gotta, you know, there's you can be that kind of armchair you know, experts or armchair explorer if you will, And like, that's totally fine. I do it myself now with a growing family and things like that. You know, you read books or whatever. But getting out there is, I think, is where it's going to push people to have their
own thoughts and experiences. And I think we're regardless of audio footage unless you just are simply trying to do it for yourself and never let go of that growl that you might be able to catch.
People don't get out of the backyard.
Yeah, however, is a good there is a good opportunity depending upon where you live. If you look at your backyard, you could see one diving in, you know, dumpster diving for food.
That is true. Most people here, you're gonna have your name stairs, and it's to say, the vast majority of your they don't whether it's Bigfoot, any kind of crypt or even just parent normal in general. They don't want to be taken that. They don't want to be taken out out of their normal right then what their lives the way it is. They don't want to have to think about something else that's going to be.
And that's you know, I have to say that. You know, there's there are times and I'll get to another story later on, but of a baby that I have on audio recording, which I believe is a baby Bigfoot in a tree blowing raspberries or bubbles. But as far as like the the psyche and things like that and the experience, it's like they're there are times where I do question myself, you know, if you do capture something or see something, how is that going to mess with you long term?
Because you know you definitely there are definitely those stories and experiences that people have had very very very very very close encounters with these creatures and it messes them up and to the point where like some of them need therapy never they don't ever want to go in the woods again. You know, I hope that that's if I do ever get to see one, I hope that that's not the reaction that I have. But then again,
it's just knowing that they're there. And if as long as you kind of know that they're there and that it might happen, I think perhaps that could help you.
I think from me personally, I've seen stories of people tell the stories where they get PSD and stuff from it.
Yeah, my train of thought is.
I think a lot of them it was early on in what they were doing at the beginning, and it happened so quickly, or they was called off guard, not expecting to even come across that, not even researching it, and said it in that PSD like hundreds of you know, they never thought about it all their life, and one day they see it, they don't go back in the woods hunting again. But I think the more time you spending the woods and doing your research psychologically, you're going to be more.
Prepared for that.
So differently and her being in the military, you trained for that it's like training and then when you encounter something that's could be deadly dangerous or whatever the case may be, you're psychologically prepared for that to accept it and rationalize you know what you're going to be doing. That's my viewpoint.
Yeah, well, in all the points when we were novice going out there in our first expedition, and you know that we were not prepared mentally because we didn't know what this really was. We didn't think anything of I would have bet money on the fact that I would have not had an experience. Right here we are getting a treat push down. The other one out in Mount Hood, Oregon,
where we were out with another different investigating group. I was actually with Cliff Barrickman at that time and he was kind of doing some expeditions there and so got to work with him a bit as well and got pretty close. But there was there was a I want to say that was the time where we were also with Tom Powell. I think he was with us. And for those who don't know, Tom Powell a great, great bigfoot researcher. He has a few books out there.
Friend, yeah, my friend Nikki Cologne from Texas. Actually, if I'm not misaken. I think he was part of her group that met up out there in Oregon and Washington. They did uh oh wa Washington. Uh they did an exhibition camp out up there.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's out that way, you know.
And it was.
That That first night was also interesting because this is where we were again maybe fifteen twenty people. We saw this ball in the sky making its rounds, I mean, and it was it was low, it wasn't a satellite. It was too high to be a plane, too low to be a satellite, just kind of making its rounds, and like we're all just kind of admiring it and looking at it. There's you know, we had a whitish color to it, but we again, not what we were
looking for. But that was the first night. But then the second night we actually went down this path and this was when we were we were ready, at least I was ready as far as audio night vision. And so what they don't tell you about the downfalls of night vision is that it's all good and it's all great when you can see through it. As soon as you take that down from your eye, you are blind. You could have that on the lowest setting, on the lowest brightness and you take that down from your eye,
you are done. So yeah, it takes a couple of minutes. It's kind of a double edged sword there. So I was holding on again. Brought a family member and you know, I literally was holding onto them to like guide me down this path because I was just hell bent on keeping this up on my eye. I didn't want to miss a thing. We go all the way down and kind of once we circled back and said, okay, you know this is we've been walking for about an hour and a half. Now we're gonna go back this way.
What was again very interesting is there was very little wind to no wind, but there was a bit of moon right, and I felt lucky. And as we're kind of walking back to meet up with a larger group and at this point it was just myself, Cliff, family member, a woman her name, her name is Barbara, and another fella one of my friends I think, and so we were all together and noticed the similarities though we were five group in New Mexico split off three and two
and then this group again we're a five. And so once we kind of walked back, we hear this one, uh, well, one of my buddy. He actually did a tree knock,
just like Bill did a wood knock and nothing happened. Well, he did a tree knock and nothing happened, and then we might have walked another twenty and then you hear this tree ay ey, and it just kind of starts swaying, and we all looked up and we kind of backed up, and family members trying to kind of look up there and see if he could get a see heat signature,
of which he kind of did. But for those who might not know, trees carry heat, so it's all kind of blobby, but yet something is standing out more than
the blobbiness. And of course I've got my recording going and sure enough, and I actually if you go to my Instagram Pine Shadow Design, you can kind of flip through some of my posts and I actually have it on there, and you hear this very kind of this what I would consider and what I'm calling this baby stand squatch blowing raspberries or bubbles up in this tree. And I even said, do you hear that? And I think you might even hear a cliff on recording and go,
you know, what is it? I was like, it's blowing bubbles and it does it again, and it did this twice, so it wasn't a whole lot, and you really have to listen to kind of hear it, and of course I didn't. I don't have all the high end audio cleaning equipment, so you really got to listen. But it's there. I think it's there, and actually showing a diagram how it was there, and so you kind of hear initially the wave form, if you will. So that was kind
of an up and down and then a down. And so this to me, we all kind of huddled somewhat around this tree. But one part of the story that I had forgotten in my apologies, so I'm going to take this out of sequence. But as we were walking down initial trail, there was this loudest what Cliff was saying was a bard owl and he knows more than I in the forest, but this was the loudest R two D two whistley sounding alarm missile type of thing happening, like just this weird thing, and I was like, and
it was also like a hoot. I can't do it because I'm not whatever this thing was. But I almost sent me David to kind of your point on like PTSD It almost sent me like a shock and like a bit of like a anxiety attack, because I was like, oh my gosh. And the initial feeling that I got was we're in the baby's den, like we are, we are, that's the alarm to like mom and dad come back or baby run up the tree, like, but we we've
hit this alarm. So I forgot to say that. And so as we were coming back and then to have this kind of baby thing happening, I was like, Oh, this is all making sense, you know, like this this was the nursery, is what I was also calling it, like that's the nursery, like we're in it. And so as everyone else is kind of looking up the tree, I'm trying to scope around to make sure that we're not about we're not about to get clobbered by mom or dad or big brother or sister or something. And
we kind of walked away. We left Barbara sitting with the tree, this infant as what I'll call it. You know, she sure enough she had like baby toys with her, So that just was so serendipitous that she actually had like a little rattle, like little jingly things and she was saying things very sweetly in a very like motherly loving tone. Are you okay? How are you? What's your name?
Like?
Are you there? Do you want to say hi? And I was just kind of I won't bury the lead here. Nothing really happened after that, but it was one of those things where there was definitely something in a tree making it sway there was no wind, and I even had to go back and see, like what are things that could make a bubble blowing sound? It's really only primates, my chimps, humans or maybe a horse, and like, it ain't a horse up in the tree, so unless it's
a primate or it's a big foot. So that's kind of where I feel as if I've got that recording of that big baby big foot blowing bubbles in the tree.
Okay, it's just for clarification for those watching. And what you say sounds like it's blowing bubbles. You said like it was like.
A language like babies kind of make their blow raspberries, and yeah, yeah, because some people visualized blowing bubbles, you know.
That's why I just want.
To clear and that's and that's what I like blowing sugar lips, yea, the.
Way it could be like a language too, I guess. I mean, you never know, communic a parent maybe somewhere nearby.
I mean, I don't know, but that those are the after that, I did some expeditions in in Iowa in Wisconsin with Doug Hijack, and it's just nothing ever really amounted to those two experiences. But I've got a long big footing life career ahead of me, and so but other and then from that, this is where I got really into, you know, the book side of things. I wrote a children's book, started doing more book collecting because that's at this point again trying to raise a family.
It's that's about all I got time for is reading a book at night. Oh yeah, thank you, sir. So this is Billy Finds Bigfoot. This is really an homage and a very if I can dive into this, if you don't mind, I know, but yeah, absolutely, this all again kind of started with Harry and the Henderson So you're gonna have that heartfelt kind of it's a romance, if you will, with a Bigfoot story in the sense that there's this boy, Billy, he he loves nature and there's a lot of life lessons that I try to
share here. And some of which are even perhaps a little bit challenging for even adults to learn, like never, you know, as an example, taking taking for granted what you have in front of you, you know, in the relationships that adults have. I think that's a very hard
lesson for us to kind of have. And so I'm trying to kind of teach that through here because Billy's on a mission to find this white fox until he realizes that there's this Bigfoot, and he's trying to tell Bigfoot that he's trying to trying to find this white fox.
And I'm sorry if I'm giving spoiler alerts, you know, but ultimately when he comes home, his mom and dad talk him into bed and say, well, you know, we know that you're trying to find this very rare white fox, but in fact, there's this even more rare creature out there named Bigfoot. And then Billy realizes that, oh my gosh, I just like I didn't know. I didn't know that there was this Bigfoot, that I was talking to Bigfoot, that it was helping me see all the things in
the forest, and it's it's a great read. So if anyone has little's or children in their life. It's a great quick read, great, great for bedtime stories.
Cool And I'll throw this out there for those who will watch it and listening right now right through YouTube if you're interested in this book, if you go into the description of this live feed or later or anytime you're watching this, there's a link to the book in
the description right now, So check that out. Absolutely absolutely so you know later on if you continue on with the research and continue going on some of these you know, campouts or expeditions, you might have to write a new book eventually, where keV.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
I do.
I do have this kind of I am on the start of a second book. So if there's any agent or publishers out there, that's called is it Real or not? About two boys who are in the Pacific Northwest who do happen to come across this and they see it there, but then they're they're given a figure which like a stick figure, which I think is very interesting in the big Foot culture. If anyone hears any stories about that and the gift giving that also has a bunch of mystery,
and so if anyone's interested, please reach out. But yeah, that's it. Definitely a lot more.
Now that book there is that the one that's published with Hangar Publishing.
With Publishing, uh so that's my children's book. They are moving from what I'm told or is, away from more of the fiction side of things, which is great. I think we need a lot more non fiction material out there and people's experiences and the stories. So that's where I was like, well, I still gotta write my fiction.
SOFS interesting, Okay, yeah, because I I know you've been connected and you've been on You've been on Doug Hicheck's podcast as well, which is pretty cool. So yeah, I never got to speak to him mat. I mean, he seems like a pretty pretty cool guy. I mean he produces Moths Request, you know, and New Season, so you know, he's pretty cool.
I was able to go out with him in Wisconsin here a buddy of my Levi Makovich, which I always
kind of have to give him a quick plug. So he actually has a book called The Sasquatch Paradox, and this actually really delves into the complexities surrounding the existence of sasquatch, exploring both like the scientific and the philosophical implications of the belief in in this creature and it's it's written kind of like a college thesis, So he really puts it out there that like, it's not a suit and here's why, it's got to be a creature, and here's why it's got to be his bigfoot and
here's why. So he's just plugging him. But yeah, met Dog did a kind of had you know, a night big footing with him in Wisconsin. And you know, Levi has stories and I'll just kind of share some of his where you know, he would have acorns thrown at him here in Wisconsin as far as his big foot experiences have kind of gone, and I was hoping to have that and this was maybe about two three or so years ago, but nothing like that happened to me yet.
I know that Java Chochin also finding Jay's in this kind of our area as well a couple of months back, and you know, very interesting stories that he says about how you know nature is alive and if you talk to us, to talk to nature talk for us, it'll kind of open itself up type of sentiment. And it's
all true. I mean, I kind of get back to this getting out in the woods, having your own experiences, meeting people like yourselves, you know, go with a group, go through your best friend, whomever you feel safe with, and you know it's it's it's important to get back to roots and get back to nature as much as we're on a podcast, but like it's it's also good to put the cell phones down and put all the social networks away to just to hear what the what
the forest has to say. I think it's so important for us as humans.
Daytime and nighttime it's two different worlds, and and then that transition from day to night and that darkness slowly comes over.
I love it.
I love it, yeah, because for at a point, you know, the forest is alive during the day, but then during the transition it gets quiet, and then it gets loud again because then the nighttime.
Animals are coming out. That's right, and it's really neat.
But for those who do go out there, if think you start off like he says, go people that you know you're gonna be safe around, but research where you're going, be safe, take baby steps. You don't want to get out there and get lost, get hurt. And then especially if you go in primitive areas where you don't have silk service, let people know where you're going when you're gonna come back with if you don't show up, they know to start come looking.
As far as I add, we have fun, enjoy it.
Just think safety about it, because you don't be more somebody's missing people. I don't know if you're familiar with four one.
I was going to bring that up, David, Yeah, that's I was like, that's exactly.
Remember one when yeah, you don't want one Netflix scenario.
Yeah, you know, and they really portray that movie to make it seem like something is taking someone, you know, and it's kind of alien. It's kind of Bigfoot again. I for my peace of mind and for my sanity, I suppose I would just hope that bigfoots more of that flesh and blood creature, this bipedal you know ape if you will, North American bipedal ape. I hope it's not this alien shape shifter you know, tunnel or uh you never know, the old jumper like it just that's
it would blow my mind, right, and it's scary. It's a scary thought and like it. And this is where when you're kind of raising this, you know, raising a family like I am, like they rely on me. I got to come home. I got to come back hole like in mind and in body like all others.
Right, But again, we don't know what's going on out there. I mean people spend their entire lives in the woods certain areas hunt to come up with miss you know, or they find differently to not find the weapon, the body, the clothing are going I mean there.
We as a we as a society don't know what's going on, or individually we might not know what's going on. Or would you say that maybe the government or or a higher entity of not.
Honestly based on reports, what you see, what you read, what you hear, I don't think society as a whole knows what's going on. Uh, it could be maybe the government knows more than what they're telling.
I mean you were both in the military.
Know we don't know. But it's it happens. People come up missing, it's never seen from again, and or they come up missing, the show up days or weeks later.
Yeah, and to them and when I was going to ask about that, and to them it's like they wasn't gone. Well. Yes, And then there's some cases where like their clothes are miles away and then they're found naked, just wandering in the woods. I mean, and if.
Yeah, we don't know how, there could be many different avenues that could take I just I don't want to be part of it. Let's not stop from going in the woods. I mean, if it don't come back, then by.
Yon, then Melissa, Well, if we're out in the woods and I come across David with no clothes on, I'm getting on the radio, but let's come dress your husband.
That would now happen that one.
Not on purpose?
Yeah, well there are there are.
When I was asking about the military background is because there are plenty of stories with military personnel having experiences and even with the I mean stories with the Mount Hood eruption or excuse me, Mount Saint Helen's eruption, and you know, military being in there and actually removing big foot bodies from that area. From being a military background, and this is actually the first time we get to ask a military background person like do you do believe partake what's your.
I was a part of that aspect of it. Those that are are usually uh, the special ops type, we get involved with stuff like that.
I do know that uh uh, there's been.
Reports written by certain special ops groups whether it be uh, special forces or rangers going down on recons and stuff like that, some having their own experiences and some actually being sent out to investigate to see when things come across. Now, I don't know how comes of those. Yeah, I mean if you look, if you look at Roswell with the UFO, they come out saying crass the space ship. Next day, No,
it's a weather balloon. Come on, now, you know the military just don't come out and say it's one thing and the change the story of the next They got caught the pants down that she just says, the weather.
Balloons begin in the woods.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Uh, but I.
Mean, there's just so much going on out there that. But then again, look at what they're a congress now having people look into the UAP aspect. I don't know why they changed the name from UFO to UAP. It's one and the same. You're trying to dump it down a little bit. They're going to the extent to talk to these people that's supposed to be doing the research. I'll watched a couple of herrings on TV. You got these high officials looking into the UFO stuff and reportings
and whatnot. And then one of the senators asked, these guys research, did you go back and look at the Roswell incident and gone back ten fifteen years looking at reports. Well, no, we're just looking at present day stuff because it's based on what the military has been putting out, you know, TV and stuff right now for the last fifteen to twenty years. Let's catching their stuff.
You're gonna have a lot more of those UFO UAP I think experiences and things on video because people can look the nighttime sky is not secluded to those who are, you know, just in the forest, whereas the bigfoot experiences you have to go on a forest, correct, you know, and to kind of there's this kind of this, you know, the theory of bigfoots being able to that they're in this you know, they can travel through these portals and
they kind of come in and out. And one question is simply raised that you know, is a very valid logical point, is like, well, why do we never seem in a city then? And it's like, well, yeah, that's a good that's a good question, you know.
Control if it happens, control.
Yeah, perhaps, Yeah, that's a great.
About them or somebody else Yeah.
Well, also to avoid if that entertaining the thought, if that is factial information, if that's what they do, then it would only make sense that they are trying to avoid population.
Let's stay away from the city.
Yeah. Well, and it just kind of goes back to, you know, again my thought of never you can't dismiss someone's story. You know, there are theres and I was kind of sure this one where there's a story where someone had said that they saw Bigfoot coming out of a UFO that was handcuffed to a briefcase and watered off in the woods, And it's like, if that's if that's your recollection of what happened, Like I can't dismiss that.
I don't know if I can partake in it, but like I can't dismiss it, And you just kind of have to put that over here in the paranormal unexplained side of things. But then again, it's like I I kind of come back to the fact that I just I'm hoping that this is a more flesh and blood creature that just happens to have that much more intelligence than what we do because we can't observe it, we can't study it like a Jane Goodall type of thing.
That's my hope because anything outside of that, again is going to blow my lizard brain.
So well, we're not jumping off of a cliff, but my mind's open to anything. And until you get concrete answers, it's get out in research and see what.
You come up with. Whether they're whether.
Some people say they're inter dimensional, they're flesh and blood, nobody knows. Supposedly nobody knows. Uh, get out research, have fun, see what you come up with. Uh, put two and two together. You can't discount all the stories over the last couple of thousand years from Native America's go back. I mean they they have stories encountering beings like.
Every consonant, every.
Yeah, I can't believe that everybody that talks about this or lootings. I mean to me, that's it's impractical. Now you're gonna have those who's gonna fabricate stories. They want that lime white. They're going to embellish on things. That's why you got different filing cabinets. You you look, you listen to the story. Based on what you perceive they're telling. You can put it in this drawer and you can put it over.
Here in that drawer, in that drawer.
But I'm not gonna really anybody. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna put anybody down for the story because we don't know, you know.
Right See, I'm the same way. I agree with David.
I'm the same way because I've been doing a lot of filming, uh, in interviews with people sharing your accounts.
I'm not I've gotten to the point.
I'm not going to call them a liar, you know, even I mean, most of the eyewitnesses that I have been meeting up with, usually I feel like something don't make sense, but I haven't been feeling that way with these people. I feel like they've really seen a witness something, so.
You know.
And plus, I want people to feel comfortable. I want people to come forward with me if they have something legit. I mean, I want to hear it, you know. I want to put the word out there for them, you know, I want to document it, you know, for you know, not just to put the word out there. But we we gather reports. I'm sure you're the same way. You know, you pick up on other people's reports like we do, especially here in Virginia, because Virginia is highly underestimated. You know,
there's a lot that happens. It takes place here in Virginia. Yeah, everyone looks at the northwest.
Well yeah, they're everywhere.
Yeah, they are here.
I can promise you that guarantee you that you've got to be willing to put in the time to research it and.
Look for it. You know, But.
Do you think one will have to be put down in order for people? I mean this, I get asked this question all the time. Do you think what's gonna get put down for people to believe? And even then if big brother or you know, some government entity doesn't come and take that course, because that means a lot to the forests, you know, I think that would happen first the lumber side. But yeah, I mean I know.
The government getting the move that's right.
Well, Man Daniels had to discussed him before with the group. If we would actually have a really outer and if we came up with physical evidence one way or the other, would we report it?
I mean I would love to document everything we see, but.
I don't know if I could report it officially because.
It wouldn't make no sense to really because you.
Involved one If the look people you're gonna have your lootings out there like mountain monsters. Oh boy, where we camp at there was a bunch they actually found one of them coming total guns and everything else, running through the woods, he han and driving the a TVs.
They're right.
I don't want that. I don't want the government areas. I don't want governments coming in shutting the areas down because of that. I mean, look look what California did when they had those fires by not letting water come down because a little bitty fish that they were trying to preserve. There's no other ways to preserve wildlife, especially when you're talking fish. I don't want I think it's
a Keyies hill if if you come forward. But we're saying that now, maybe there's a way to bring it forward, to keep eighty percent of it unknown, but bring the facts forward and let everything go on as normal. If that would be possible, I mean, I don't know.
I think the I think, yeah, the the naturists, and I think that the logging company, the logging companies would be in trouble to find out that there is a bipedal North American humanoid ape species out there. I think that's in I think it would almost get political at that.
Point, economically, it could like it's just.
It's I think it's such a slippery slope. And you know, and even if so, yeah, if you do. And I'm not going to say his name, but there is there are there is someone out there who is saying that they have had a big foot in their freezer for you know, years and years, and it's just.
That I see I've seen that documentary. I think they had a documentary on that.
Okay, all right.
I got to say the name you're not talking.
About the the the dog trainer, the veterinarian dark trainer guy.
I don't remember the name, but I remember the documentary I've seen that claimed that two scientists actually came in and was drilling into the ice to see if they can get any kind of DNA from it and and tissue samples and all that other stuff.
And when they.
Got the drilling in the eye, so this is according to the documentary, air got exposed to it. They can smell dead flesh. Then again, that can still be planted in there and and I fakes took you know what I mean, just by putting beef meat in there. Uh, But shortly thereafter and when the scientists done, then the thing came up missing again. If it's the same one you're talking about, But that's that's a documentary and I had they haven't seen him since, so I.
Mean, well, there's one individual. A lot of people don't look to bring up his name because he has been well involved with hoaxing for years. But and he supposedly put his body is said bigfoot.
Body on tour, made tons of money on it.
But I'll throw his name out there because I bet he's been on bockhand of the guy Rick Dyer.
You're not talking about Ricky.
Let me let me confirm, uh.
Rick Dyer from he's originally based out of Texas.
No no, no, no, no, no no, this isn't this isn't him. Uh Okay, there's another fella who again I don't want to say his name.
That's okay, that's okay, it's you know.
It's it's dangerous. I think if you you if there's not a scientific backing to this, and this is where I have gone on a few expeditions with the late doctor Jeffrey Meldrum and he was it's I think that's going to set back the big footing community a couple of years, if not decades, just because of the amount of research and the scientific community ear that he did have, you know, and for those hopefully everyone on you know with us as it knows who doctor Jeffrey Meldrim is.
I mean, he's been on every bigfoot documentary since the early nineties.
Yeah, that's bad.
And I got to meet him a few times a couple of local events not far from here out in West Virginia.
Yeah, and David, I almost had another orb story for you. But again, my family member, myself and Jeffrey were sitting on a law and we were just watching this red light go back and forth and didn't know what the hell was going on, and it was so bizarre and weird, and Jeffrey starts laughing. He's like, what in the heck is this? But it turns out it was the next group ahead of us, passing their red headlamp back and forth.
Wow.
And so it's just like we were just seeing this red dot bounce back and forth and we couldn't explain.
It to do it on purpose. So they were just passing the back and passing.
Back and forth for whatever reason. So we had to chime in and asked, is anybody red light? And oh, yeah, that's us. We're looking for something.
I'm like, oh my god, it happened was a Hubert too, because the last camp out I was stalking my own trill camp I had set out. I had no gold set out and have one head or red light that would sit up at camp. And it was when they were out hiking that evening and Mary looked over seeing the red glow come on, yeah, and I you, that was a red eye shine way over in the field away from us. And I didn't looked over. I didn't
see nothing. I forgot I have a trail cam on this tree up there where where my tent was, Yeah, right next to you. I set back down. When I was sitting there, she says, there it is. Again. I looked over. I didn't see nothing, and then I said, well the heck for this? So I stood up, and I stood up. Then it came on. What I found weird about it is it had about sixty foot range. I had probably about ninety to ninety five feet away from where we were at the fire pit with the campfire.
And I think what happened was when I was getting up and down talking to them on the radio. With the campfire here. I was sitting here and every time I got up, I guess the light caused it to react with my trail camp that I have set up. And that's the only thing I can think of it to be, because when I stood up again, that looked over and I've seen it, and then way what she was describing, I was thinking, well, there is something over there.
Get them on the radio. They're over the other campsite where nobody's that where I was getting caught that static stuff, and uh, I said, I got hold of Daniel them. I says, anybody over there got through bred head lamp on because we got some of that would go white red stuff. And yeah, hers, so I have Melissa way over the way we need There ain't no way we was seeing it, but yeah, was over there to see if I could see that walking around, but we we couldn't do that.
Yeah, it didn't make sense to me when you asked to do that. There's no way he's seeing it again.
You got you got to rule things out. And here it wasn't hurt. So I started walking towards it. John's behind me walking behind me, looking over my shoulder in case we run into something. And I get about ten fifteen feet toward from my tent, I've seen that red light right there on the tree, and I said, Jesus.
Christ, you yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I did right there a video we're walking up through there, except I had to set for like one every fifteen seconds. No, it was video every fifteen seconds, ten second videos every fifteen seconds. And you can see be bopping up and down through there. It's you gotta have a sense of huge. I mean, you know you're gonna things are going to happen, and you gotta.
Have fun with it well.
And they can turn quick. It could be funny in one minute and.
Then all of a sudden exactly exactly.
You know.
Yeah. But if science every would getting stuff like that, I mean, I wouldn't know what I mean if they just if they knew how to use common sense and logic, they wouldn't have to change anything.
Because in my mind, with it.
We've been here now going three hundreds of plus years, logging and everything else. We've never disrupted them before. If they're here, we've never had any problems with them. I mean, things that go on as normal as they are now, without the government having to get involved, to start shutting things down, putting rules and regulations into place, and for how long by what means, which we don't know if that would come about. It's just huge logic behind stuff
like this. People can still get out there. They've been doing it. I mean, I can't see them getting involved if if that discovery was made, all of a suddenly.
Everybody's fine, And I hate, I hate for that to happen.
Even if the four one ones are Bigfoot related, Sasquash related, they're not doing anything to stop that.
No, Uh, they don't have any concrete absence what's happening. And I think they're just writing office people getting lost.
Yeah, real quick about the Big four, you know, the missing the missing for one one, I mean what little information? Uh you know I know about that now, David Variety, see you know when he first came about the four one one, you know, the program and everything and what he's been putting out of his books. And now if I'm if I'm understanding correctly, and you know, maybe you may know more about this Ken, but you know, correct me if I'm wrong, But back it up, it wasn't
always about Bigfoot, Big Foot. You know, Bigfoot ended up coming coming along later on as a possibility with.
A ca it was Ah. I think the way it was made was to let the viewer believe what they want to believe, whether it was alien, whether it was you know, Bigfoot, whether it was something else, whether it was shape shifters, you know, then the idea of like people missing, and then I didn't know that this was a thing, but then talking to a really good friend out in your mounhood again Washington area, in the Gifford Pinchot area in Washington, where it's like there's I want
to say something like volcano pits or something to that effect, where there you know, tens ten tens of feet deep and it's like you could just fall in one and that's it and you're never going to get out of it. And it's like, I mean, if that doesn't terrify you enough to never go out in the woods, I don't know what does. But it definitely led you to think.
I mean, and the Bigfoot theme was there, and especially one of the one stories where there's a child involved and they literally let the child like go play just around the camp area and you turn your head for a second, and now this child's gone. And like, as heartbreaking as it is, especially not having kids, it's like you you can't take the forest for granted, and you got to know your surroundings, the animals that are there.
And this is all this kind of goes without saying as an adult, right, but it's like the big Foot side of things, I don't there's only been really one, you know story, maybe maybe a handful of stories like Albert Osman being you know, picked up in his sleeping bag thrown over the shoulder of a sasquatch and then like you know, now, yeah, and it's and this was within the last century that this was captured, you know that this happened to this person. You know, I don't
know what to quite make of those types of stories. Again, I can't doubt it. I can't nay say it because I don't do that to people. But I think what's interesting is like the idea of what did they do?
And to your point, Daniel, you know, when it's the it's the it's the facts, or it's the little detailed that people might say in their stories that say, oh, you know, that's that's actually credible because it's it's been proven or it's been said by many different people across the country of like yeah, this happens and then that happens, or or you know, their their teeth are kind of in this type of way, or there this color or whatever it might be a skin pattern or skin texture,
all of those things. It's just it it becomes kind of harder and harder to disprove a story. And I was at recently a work event and it was you know, it was brought over to a table and the someone introduced me. It was like, this is cav the bigfoot guy. And I almost felt as if I was there to kind of like start to do a tap dance form. But it was the idea of you know, okay, make me a believer type of conversation. And I'm learning that you can't make people a believer. You have to allow
them to ask their questions. And as I kind of said to David and Melissa, where it's like you got to go out and you've got to tell people to have their own experiences. You can't. It's one thing if they're kind of already bought in if you will, but if they're not, anything that you say about the sixty seven Patterson gamelan footage. They're not going to maybe understand anything that you say about even Jeffrey Melgrium, they're not going to understand or you know, locomotion in a foot
or the mid torsal break. And then I had an individual at the table say, well, what about the third and fifth in you know, mid torsal break. I'm like, that's not a thing. Why are you trying to throw me off my right? Yeah, you know, it's It's one of those things where I think, what's so important about this topic is that it's still exploring our earth, you know, whether you're more into oceanography or the forest. Like the ocean terrifies me. I'm not going there. There's deeps and
depths of stuff. Nope, thinks some good that are bigger than Bigfoot, Like I'm good, but like Bigfoot, I can
handle right. And so this is it's just one of those things where it's so important to at least be open to what David had said and things like that, what is the uh, oh, make sure you didn't miss a question beginning beginning into the idea of it's so important for this to be a possibility, because I think it's going to help us learn about ourselves, and the fact that this thing, it has to have such a higher intelligence than us because it eludes us. It can be right in front of our eyes and yet we
don't see it. There has to be something going on that people are seeing in the forest and these creatures of why they perhaps allow us to see them one minute, but then they don't allow us to see them the next. What's that all about? I mean, there's so many questions.
Well, I did some research here a couple of weeks back, just out of curiosity, of all the forests in the US and Alaska, and at any given time, there's only about maybe ten percent of the forest that people actually spend time in because the majority of us remote yep, and people cannot sit back and say that people's out there all the time. Well, what do you mean people's out there all the time. It's a big area. Yeah, here, just here on the east coast alone, the George Warshington
I haven't notes. There's a lot of numbers here. The George Warshington National Forest and the Jefferson National Forest combined is one point eight million acres. That's two thousand, just over twenty eight hundred square miles. That's these two forests. There's one hundred and twenty eight forests in the US, significant number located on the East coast. That's not counting
national parks in which is sixty three national parks. Yeah, there's that's a lot of areas that people do not get to get into, and that on a regular basis to explore so much of us it's really it's it's not visited, you know, on the regular base.
No, you can't rocks and thickets and thorns and the wildlife that lives there.
There's no way in the distance involved.
Yeah, I mean in this that's the acres there is actually to kind of tie into this person's question about skin Skinwalker Ranch, where that's five hundred and twelve acres out in Utah. I mean that is a substantial amount of land, at least where I'm from, five hundred and twelve acres, and the idea of to just kind of get into the Skinwalker Ranch side, and I will relate this to the different species of perhaps bigfoot that are not species, but different kinds of bigfoot that are out there.
So Skinwalker Ranch is one of those really challenging stories and spots for me to get my head wrapped around. Because this is a shape shifting type of creature. I mean, dare I say it can kind of go more demonic to alien side of things like that. What you don't get out of that from a bigfoot perspective is everyone whoever sees a bigfoot says it's either not a bear or it's like it's a bigfoot. It's not this horned or antler type figure or skeletal type figure. It's it's
always going to be. It had shoulders, it had eyes, it had a nose ahead of mouth, like, there's more human quality to that, right, Yeah, and so, And the reason why that's kind of important as a geographical creature is because there are different shapes and sizes of this creature.
There's different colors, there's different weight to this creature. Somewhere bigger and look like they could just snap a you know, a diameter tree of twenty inches and a half with their fingers, versus the ones that are very tall and
lanky and look like they have mange. I think that there's there's always but there's always a there's always that standard relatable figure of was like a person versus the skin mark branch, which is it's a shape shifter, which is a terrifying uh thought to me, I don't want to come across that ever in the wood, So I'll just say that here. But then even to the demeanor, and perhaps you know you all have had your experiences
with the different demeanors. I think in the South. When I did hear about that FBI, you know, investigated report where this you know, campsite got destroyed, that to me was kind of made sense because I hear these stories and have read these stories where in the South they are a little bit more aggressive and don't necessarily want anyone around, and if they do, they're going to get They're gonna get mad, and they might destroy your campsite,
whereas the Pacific Northwest, I think that they're perhaps a little bit more docile. I would love to hear more of your Virginia stories of what you think that remainers, Daniel, but they're perhaps another they're another way in Virginia.
Well, before he gets into that part, ma'am, Melissa, we have not really had, for say, anything related to bigfoots happened yet other than strange sounds maybe her getting hit with uh infra sound at one time. But aside from that, I count the paranormal side strange things. As far as the big foot side, we're still I have not had our experience and say, yeah, we've had that yet a couple of possibilities, but not like what Daniels had, which
he could tell you. But well, I'm gonna get a couple of call fro while he gets his insight on that good question though. I mean, yeah, I think there's different types throughout, just like the different types of people throughout Skunk Skunk Skunk ape from Florida, smaller than the one on the West coast. Daniel knows more about that tonight.
I mean I personally based off you know, not just my encounter. My encounter, you know, would five others shared it with me? Uh, just to brigally run you through that there, that situation without getting into too many details. I mean, I mean, we believe we encountered a possible family, you know, we're free different sizes, of course, the largest.
One being pretty broad you know, around YouTube tall. And then jumping ahead as far as comparing.
Them to other eyewitness accounts, I mean here in Virginia, based.
Off of what I've just you know, learned.
And heard and gathered from other eyewitnesses. I mean they range anywhere from you know, you know, seven to eight feet on average here. You know, most of the stories I hear from others, Yeah, they're around seven feet, you know, seven to eight feet, but I believe seven feet is a good safety number to go by.
I mean they all vary inside of this.
I mean, you know, just like you're talking about, you know, based off regions. I mean, what Dave was saying for the goofer was you know you mentioned with Florida skuncake. You know, it's just like you know, people are all across the world or you know, you got Asians, you know, Russian, you know, whatever you may have it. You know, we're all different shapes and sizes. We have different orientations.
You know.
Uh, it's it's hard to get When you were saying the sizes, It's like, yeah, but what's really hard for me to chew are the ones where they're twelve feet plus. Yeah, you're talking about you're almost talking about like a baby giraffe size, like Mighty Joe Young type of baby King Kong, like hopping through the forest.
It's like, I I agree with you yes, and dismissed.
It, but like, how how would that even be the amount of food? But then just recently there was a fellow that I became pretty interested in, Kevin Laying. Yeah, he shared his story where he was able to he was out hunting and he actually, you know, there was this baby bigfoot. But yet the story I was driving and what it sounded like was that this baby bigfoot, because it was kind of whimpering for food, was like twelve feet tall, eight feet tall, but like it was
kind of a baby. It didn't quite track, but it was the idea that like, if you're hugging something twelve feet tall, you got you're hugging like it's thigh if that like right. But it's a very interesting story in the way in which he actually be friends and feeds this bigfoot and brings him in closer to share this deer that he you know, shot and cooked. And so for all those who are Kevin Laying is it's a
very interesting story. I'm not gonna, you know, spoil it for anyone, but like it's it's just a very interesting story. And there's the connection there, and I think that that's it could be possible, and we talk about kind of
like the gift giving that's happened. You know, when I went on an expedition in Colorado with Dennis full he kind of shared his experiences with the gift giving in the BFROO and kind of the the the experiment of like trying to get this Bigfoot family closer by serving them pancakes, and it actually brought them into the camp.
And there's perhaps some footage that they captured, but it's I think it's still one of those things where eight eight max and demeanor and how how it relates to you and and I don't know if it's it's like habititizing is a possible thing. There's those out there who say it's possible by kind of gift giving or feeding, you know, putting an apple on the same location, you know, on a Wednesday. Every Wednesday, put an apple on a rock and it'll stay in the middle of the forest.
And if it goes away and you put it again there on a Wednesday and it goes away, chances are that that could be a big Foot that you're starting to habititize into thinking that there's always gonna be this apple on this rock on a Wednesday.
Yeah, well you can alway an animal to do that too. Yeah, that's that the death alds under principles of conditions.
Yeah, it totally does. It's it's different perhaps if if it's if it's consistent, that's where I would start to say, well, then what's going on? And then there are there are stories to David where there's there's gift giving, but then there's gift giving back in stick figures or you know, any type of rock even just a rock like that's where then it's then it's that Shi Yeah, yeah, right right right.
One of one of our group members, but the Corn Lake a few years back had something like that to happen. If Dani will tell him about that.
Yeah, you're referring to Dale, right, Yeah, you had one particular spot we camped that and the other research area is you know, we used to experiment and play around with things.
Uh.
We decided like we had some rock stacks up behind the creek bed that was partially dried out in areas behind us. Well Dale one of our guys that camp with us, which I believe he believes he plans on coming back with us in May. Well he was he went he came back into the area isn't a location. And he walked behind the camp and found something behind where we had left one of the rock stacks.
Now keep on.
There was a couple of down trees that was going over the creek bed and again, uh, that part of the creek bed on the most part was dry. But he came across and he showed his pictures of it or did he actually show us?
Was it just I remember? Was it just a picture or did he actually I think he only had pictures of it.
Yeah, he did not keep it.
He regrets that he didn't keep it, but no, he did was photograph it, and then he kind of put it right back in the same spot.
Again.
It was in the area where the where we had stacked all those.
Rocks, right, Yeah, because what was interest about that? Well, first of all, let me say what he found, Uh, was it looked like a woven grief, like a reef.
That was like handmaid.
That was good. Yeah.
Now it's funny that he.
Saw that because I came across something just like that maybe you know a few years or so, or maybe longer in another area way out of this area down like Melissa David, if you're familiar with the wind Hurst area, going down.
Where the forest connects to cars of the Blue Ridge Mountains there.
Well, anyway, I was in an area where I found a couple of interest and structures and formations. But I just so happened to be walking in the woods and looked down and here's our what we were described as what looked like a reef. It was looked like it was made from like vine type material that was woven together in a complete.
Cir laying there on the middle of the ground.
You know.
I but what he saw that, that's what it reminded me of. It was like, wow, Okay, he's like, I mean.
Is somebody doing that? I mean, that's the possibility.
We can't we can't say that it's not somebody doing.
In Sam Houston and Sam Houston, Dana, we had another interesting moment was that we actually it had come across like a nest, almost like a tree structure, and we called it a cathedral because there was one arch built on top of another arch, and it just was woven in such a way where it's it just kind of made it seem impossible for humans to do. But yet we're there. Who knows. I'll never forget this though, and I will say that this goes back to the respect
of nature and these creatures. There was a member there who then decided to relieve themselves on this cathedral structure and just to kind of make this bigfoot mad or whatever, if that's what that was going to do, Like have just respect what you find in the woods for those who are listening, and like, so when you didn't take it, Daniel, was that because of I was that out of respect or was that more so of like, Oh that's weird, I'm going to leave it there, take a picture of it, document it.
No.
I mean I I just didn't know what to think of it. I just thought it was something that somebody made and they either dropped it or left there. I mean the one I found, not the other gentleman who found from our campsite.
But I don't know.
I just I don't know. I like whatever, I'm just going to leave there. I just didn't say much of it.
Really.
Yeah, So could you tell if there was any I mean, was it shiny to where it could be like did it look like it had glue on it? That there was there any?
Oh?
No, this was definitely what was hard.
I found you know, well some of the national binds in the area where the one I found, Like I said, I recognized the material where it came from. It was from the woods. I mean, uh, it was definitely something that somebody took the time. Somebody or something had taken the time to woven and you know, branch together this round, complete circle of vinewood, you know I called vinewood. And it was some vine wood. It gets up to an inch or two thicks.
This was not even probably.
A quarter inch thick to a half inch thick, you know, as far as the vine that was made from. But so yeah, I was just I don't know, I mean, thinking back on it, I don't recall me thinking I actually got a picture of it.
I mean I did take a picture of it, and I thought it was interestingly.
Yeah, you know, Daniel, I just sent you through messenger. I just sent you the two pictures that Dale had taken, one dog and the other one of.
The reaf part the braided.
So I don't know if you will be able to open them or not, but I just sent them to you a messenger.
Okay, give me a seventeen twenty twenty three.
That's when they want to yeah, all right.
Yeah, when I click on the picture, I mean I see him, but when I go to click on them, they.
They're not appearing. Okay, yeah, I mean I'm looking at him right now, I'm messenger.
But like I said, if I click on him and try to stand and save him, they won't show up.
Now.
Based off the picture of the round reef that Dale found, it looks like it's the same material. It's almost looks like identical to the same material to the one I found.
Of course, the one I found.
Was probably a little thicker and you know, using the same type of material. This vine, yeah, the one he is, the one that's found here, was definitely used with somebody vine.
That was in an area too, Like, that's the same vine found in that area.
Well, the one found that the one found by Dale, this is many miles away. This is an our main research area. But what I found probably about over twenty something miles away. Just see the twenty miles away.
So uh.
And also again it's.
Not the.
One I found was in the National Force. The one that I found was part of the Bluish Parkway Blue the Blueish Mountains on the pace of the mountain. So yeah, uh yeah, like I said, be a good twenty miles away easily a whole different time period too.
But the one I was trying to po the one that Melissa.
Sent me, is the one that Dale found. It was a lot thinner. It was pretty thin. See and when I click on it, you show them to see it.
I'm trying to show.
It, you see.
Yeah, it comes up super white.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'd saved him on my computer and my laptop and the screen.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, if I knew we were going to be talking about that, I can say that it up on the screen like I did his books. You never know, Yeah, okay, Yeah, it's interesting that you come across out there though, you know, I mean, if are you talking about structures and everything? You know, I have come across a lot of interesting structures, you know, and again we you know, we a lot of people want to contribute it to big Foot. I want to do it too, but I can't because I feel my conscience.
Because I didn't want this bitfoot doing it.
You know, that kind of goes along with everybody else that said, oh that's a big pot structure. You don't know that you didn't with this pick Foot Bills net because if you did, you'd be shipping your.
Pants, you know.
I mean, I don't know.
That's just me, but I mean we want to contribute what we find the big quot but because I mean the structures that fascinate me are like two F structures and anything that looks woven together way off the deep path, which I've come across a lot of that, and I find it that weather can't do that.
Weather can't do naturally. You have to have the fun to be able to put things together.
Because I have come across woven things that were twisted and combined. You know, I got pictures of stuff like that, and it makes you really wonder what the heck.
Yeah, and the one you know, and the one that we came across the cathedral again that we're calling it in Texas, then that was I mean, it had a door opening, you can walk in it, you can kind of almost stand up in it. And I'm six to one. So it's like it just was enough of a structure to say that one of those things where it well it was either bigfoot or it was a human. I mean, it's just airb like you can't you can't chalk it
up to anything else besides that. I mean that, I don't know what else it folds twigs like that, unless there's like a giant beaver cryptid that we've yet to discover, but that would be about it.
Now you mentioned, I'm I had never heard of that one before, but that's right now. You mentioned it's gonna be popping up now, probably be perencrypted, but again you never know it could be. But until you can nail it down, you can't say yay or nay to what's going on. That's why we like getting on the beaten path,
you know, where people normally don't go. If I find, if we find something off of a trail that we're walking on that people used to walk to the lake and stuff like that, within ten fifteen yards or whatever, I can't so people people going about there trying to hope people.
And you know that well, I mean, and I don't. I always am on the side of, you know, bring protection because you just don't know whatever happens in the woods, so you have to be protected. And for all those who are wanting to play that, you know, play little jokes on perhaps the big footers that you know are
in your area. Why mess with that, I mean, don't don't put people in the situations where they're gonna get stooped and use use a weapon and then you can get hurt and then you know it's just it's not worth it.
And that's why you got to know what people go out with too.
I mean, I mean, if you with somebody that that that's kind of timid or whatnot, I don't want to think have.
Them, have them start, to have them start, and you can always be behind them.
They don't they needn't think connectic on them. Put it that way, well said we all we all take protection out there, but it's not for the bigfoot. It's for the two legged predators out there, which we know that people go out and stalk people for whatever reason. And the four leg because bears. We got black bear hair and coyotes and bear at tax black bear. It's it's
very rare here. But you never know when you may come across a mother and the goves with thy n Nine times out of tenth they know you're there, they're going to head for a different direction or the rare predatory bearer that you got. Because people don't realize if you start shooting at a bear especially.
And it runs off. Now you got another.
Problem because other people are going to come out there. Now they may encounter or wounded bear. Yep, So you got people. People have to use common sense when you go out there. Start slow baby steps, get comfortable in the area you're in, like Daniel, and everybody says, learn your wildlife, what's there, what to do if you encounter them, what not to do if you encounter certain things. Make
your presence known. Even if even if you make your presence no, I don't think that will detern anyway you have in your experience with the bigfoot.
You know you're there.
There's no way that you can go walking through the woods and the bigfoots, I mean.
Exactly, they're gonna They're gonna know you're there. If they get curious, you might get like enough having the counter, or you couldn't catch one off guard at one time now that he's walking off or whatever.
Well, you know, there's this the whole idea of going out at night and doing the thing that you know, the Finding Bigfoot crew kind of had kicked off was going out at night, and it's I much prefer the daytime. I know what I'm walking on I know what I'm walking around, I know what I'm about to walk hopefully on. If it's a sleeping bear or something or whatever. Like yeah, like you know, it's there's there's a thrill going out at night. You know, your your heart and blood will
get pumping. But as far as a safety, it's like, you know, the the best footage that we currently have of a Sasquatch, I think is still kind of goes back, you know, to the nineteen sixty seven Patterson given footage, but it's and there are others right there, other since then that have are good before AI And it's one of those things where it's it's just it's it allows you to kind of get more familiar with the area and when you're out at your camp at night, just
kind of cooking food, singing or you know, playing music or playing a guitar or whatever it is that's going to draw them in. And I'll never forget what Owel was we were. You know, this is when the whole group was out in Mounhood kind of doing our thing. We're doing Investigator, We're trying to get quiet and things like that, and you hear this off in the distance.
You just hear this one guy singing this like, oh brother, we're arthaou type of yodeling, and it's Tom Powell in the middle of the woods and just singing some you know, Mountain Hill song and it was just like, you know, it was eerie. But what he was doing was trying to attract them to him, and he was trying to make himself known, and he was trying to be vulnerable.
And I think that that's a very if we if you want to have that experience, you can make yourself very vulnerable in the woods by going alone and you know, singing songs or you know. And what he would do is he would just bring out a cot and put a sleeping bag on it and that's it. That was his tent. He didn't have a tent.
You know.
It's like I wouldn't recommend it myself personally, but.
Like it's whatever your comfort zone.
It's whatever.
Yeah, it's whenever, God.
At research starting the daytime. Yeah, you're not used to the woods. What's out there? Don't go out there and just jump at nighttime if you don't know the area where you're going and stuff like that. What you could or may what you may encounter when you're out there after dark, because what even though you go out in the daytime, you go out there in the nighttime. What you do in the daytime, half of them is going to change anyway with darkness falls.
You're yeah, you can't walk what it was that?
Yeah, if you start in the daytime, at nightfalls, while you're out there and you're trying to come back, if you're not familiar with the area, and they're gonna look less unless you're on a specific path you can follow. Yeah, those those shadows start coming in and hitting in the darkness, and that could be disorienting, disorienting even in the daytime for a lot of people until they get into a comfort zone.
That's going out there. That's what you gotta take baby steps.
But it's like the location, the location where me and David Melissa in our group, where we camp at, I mean, where we go out at nighttime. You know, it's totally cool. I feel comfortable, I feel you know whatever I mean, I think. I don't think I can't recall one ounce of fear or any kind of nervous feeling I've ever had while we've gone out together as a crew. But you know, the few times I've camped out there by myself, you know, the venture alone.
I don't care how many lights.
I have on me or whatever, even if even with a side arm on me. I've gone out there, you know, you know, not far away from camp, you know, by where we've had this strange light and stuff like that, just walking up there. It's a different feeling when you're by yourself, knowing that there's nobody else around you, you know, I mean, all you got is.
Your side arm or a phone or a camp or whatever camp order or whatever.
You got and a head lamp or a light that goes dead on you like crap, you know, and all of a sudden, all kinds of crap happens. The feeling kind of rushes over you, like you can't help that. It's a different feeling, Like you know, I've been out it's a lot by myself, but you know, especially in it, like like David wasn't, I could go on elk On Lake or walk the road for by myself at night. You know, I've been out there enough by myself because I know the area so well, you know, I just
feel more protected out there for some reason. I don't know why, but you know this other area here, to me is it's a different ballgame, you know, knowing that there's not woods on top of woods on top of woods, you know, work mine and everything else out there. It's yeah, it's some of the things I've heard at nighttime makes you really wonder, like, Okay, sure, I better stay close to camp, you know, so you.
Don't have to you don't have to go far right, you just don't. And you can get yourself an airbnb on the East coast or West coast or Ohio and in the middle of the woods and like, oh yeah, experience.
Absolutely. I've done that with you know in the past. You know, we've you know, me and.
Old Grover and we've actually done that, you know, in areas like this is so freaking cool. You know, we're I mean, this was here in Virginia, but we were like surrounded by woods and you've got a few of them mountain up behind the cabin, you know, you.
Know, you just don't know. I mean, I'm not saying I've had.
Experiences that way, but just the fact that you're there and surrounded by woods and you're in an area where like this is the perfect environment, perfect cabinitat you know, but it is whatever you know.
But so it's all part of it, you know.
Yeah, I mean, so, Kevin, I want to ask you a question. I mean, I mean, you plan on continuing when your research as far as getting out there doing other expeditions and group.
Or anything like that.
Yeah, Like I said, growing family, I got to be here for them. I gotta be a whole mind and body, right, But yes, and in fact, I'd like to get out to the East Coast. You know, I've been kind of doing more of the West Coast side of things. The I've also, I mean, shame on me for not getting out to Bluff Creek or California and you know, getting back to Mecca. But like maybe maybe over in California. So yeah, I would say California or the East Coast
is kind of where I'm headed next. I've got a a good friend who's kind of out in that New Hampshire area who says that there's things kind of going on in that in those forests.
It's his name, Mike. It's not no, I'm asking Mike Timsley was one of our recent guests.
Yeah it's uh no, but yeah, absolutely, I mean that's that's on the horizon for me. And also.
I'm working on when it comes to Virginia.
You never know, but I you know, I got your contact info and so like if if it's open invitation, Daniel, like I will, I will for sure reach out.
I can tell you I could. I can guarantee you we are cheaper than the BFRO. We don't charge. Yeah, I know how much the BFRO cass. I know people that used to associate with the BFRO well, and and.
It goes, Yeah, it's kind of over talking about you don't need to pay if you want to go to some there and have a group of twenty to thirty people in the woods chomping around like.
You know what the I can't not even that big?
What do we have eight to ten people at maybe twelve people at the most if that.
Yeah, and then most of the time we split up in the groups small to you know, smaller groups. Anyway, if we have enough, we're going through a night time max that one times been four.
I mean we usually have a couple of people left back at base camp, you know, because a lot of them depends on who stays back at base camp. Their mobility is slightly limited off. Oh yeah, yeah, and that or whatever we had.
We had someone to operate the radio because if there is an emergency for those that's out there in the woods, they need to be able to contact us. That way, if something does happen God forbid, you know, we can get in a vehicle and head down in their direction.
Yeah, I mean eventually on our filming expeditions. I mean as years go by, you'll start seeing us, You'll start seeing our group members with walker and going down the forest road.
I'm let me start.
I have to get more four wheelers out there.
Yeah, I make too much noise.
No, I mean we Yeah, we do two group camp ups a year. May is September. But right now I haven't said a day for September because I got other things I'm working on and I want to be able to say what extra time I'll have after May meet up with other people lover investigations.
That's something I'm working towards this year.
But yeah, I mean the invitations out at GIA May seventeen through the twenty six year in Virginia.
If that's right, that might work out for you.
So yeah, I'll keep you post on that. I appreciate the open opportunity there and invitation, I mean any chance I can, and just you know, from a safety standpoint, you know, things like that, you got to go with people that you trust to your point, David, you know, other than that, you know, I'm working on a script, like kind of a movie script about Bigfoot. There are a plethora, you come to find out on streaming services, all of these different Bigfoot movies, and they're all kind
of like these schlock be horror films. Yeah, it's it's it's fun and like as much as I don't believe that these creatures are that way, of course it's fun to write a script that way. So like, of course that's what I'm doing. But it's also one of those things where there's a lot of we need you don't need to get into this dietria, but there's a there's some bad Bigfoot movies out there, and like the whole Sasquatch Sunset Sunrise.
That, Yeah, I didn't even watch it.
I don't want I did, and it's.
Like for those watch it, so I don't quite know what they were trying to, like, what their message was, but it made the Sasquatch look like drunk or like drugged ape men like or even men, and like it just all the more reason where it makes like us researchers look even more the fool and so it's just not I did not appreciate.
It, and we're not We're not gonna get away from that.
Yeah, yeah, well he almost did with with Meldrum. And you know, I think that there are those again, the more scientific side of this, by tracks by DNA, those are hard proofs. And I know that even like Les Stroud is trying to kind of bring in a DNA side of things, but like the DNA folks that he was working with, like they're building burned down or something and now they moved. It's just like it's a it's always this hard road with this topic.
You mentioned less Shroud.
I didn't know you were involved in trying to produce DNA because I know he's very he's very skeptical, but I feel like he's a believer to a point, but at the same time he's keeping skeptical.
My viewpoint on the subject on what he's out there. He says, Yeah, I mean I agree with.
His He did a series, you know, he did Survivorman that he did though like he did a full series of like Survivorman Bigfoot edition. Yeah, so good, And I mean and so he was actually going to go in depth more than in a documentary with doctor Jeffrey Meldrum. But his passing, I think that's causing a lot of delays.
And so.
That's just I think the direction in which the documentary was supposed to go is now kind of maybe taking a turn or a back seat. But there is a DNA portion of that, right, interesting.
Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, I think some of the even vocalizations that they've caught, they can't match him up to any known other wildlife type vocalizations.
That go on record too.
Yeah, that's what I've seen on TV with some of those things where people get the vocalizations they call them audio the cinnamon and have mammalized. It doesn't match up to anything.
No, Yeah, the the biggest, like yeah, so for the vocalizations, I mean, the Sierra sounds was the biggest best, you know, kind of what's out there. On one of his episodes of the you know, Survivor Man Bigfoot, they do kind of replay back what's the samurai chatter that someone had caught and Samurai chatter is just basically is is what
it sounds like? Literally real type of thing. And so the language there I think is is I think it's something to be studied, that it has been studied, and so it But I don't know if he's digging into that side of things. I mean, I think he's going straight for the DNA proof in this documentary.
As long as nobody, as long as nobody interferes with him, because at the back of my mind is when somebody starts to get close, if they haven't already, they get that phone call or that knock on the door to tap it down.
Mm hm, you know what I mean.
I've always found it fascinating with you know ron yuh RAN's uh you know video capture of the sounds and sounds I've always found them fascinating. You know, that came back from the seventies. If I'm not mistaken, you.
Know that was only a that was on a reel deel.
That's all right, right, And you know, I'm waiting for somebody to come up with something like you know, like I mean, I'm not saying everybody speaks the same language.
It's like, you know, some people speak eighty and some people speak Russian.
I mean, that might be a completely different language out there than what we might have here on the East Coast.
So but it makes you wonder.
You know, I've heard people say, oh, I've heard it sound like Samur Charader in the wood.
I don't know.
I mean, I don't know what they heard, but you know, it's like, yeah, is it the same language that this year sounds picked up, you know, versus I don't know. It makes you really wonder. You know that the North American continents produced, you know, as far as the Sasquaxts that live here. It makes you wonder are they speaking the same language out there that they do here versus what they might speak out China or Australia down to South America. I mean, I mean they all have their
own type of language. Yeah, but you know, I heard some people.
Say, oh, they speak English. I don't know. I mean, makes you really wonder.
Well, And.
If you look up Scott Nelson, he actually did have a bunch of the yeah, like he broke this down into he he did the research of the hair of Sounds and like the alleged recordings of Sasquatch, and obviously he can't translate that. But he he came to say that there's like irrefutable syllables and language and words being spoken, and like it's it's at actually a higher rate in which we speak. I guess we speak pretty slow. But these things when they say that's like that's a whole
paragraph that they have now spoken. But Scott, Scott Nelson was a he look into that. I mean, for those listening, that's that's an interesting, interesting analysis of the language.
Yeah, it's interesting how Scott came about that. It was it was I want to I don't want to say. It was an actor and it was based off of his sons. Something was doing a project or something involved with something something to do with school.
His son happened to be playing that, uh you know, and then he overheard it. What the heck is that? From my understanding, I mean, I could be wrong on that. That's the story I heard.
Yeah, that's probably true. I mean, yeah, there's he's given lectures and they're they're all over YouTube.
Yeah, absolutely, Well tell you what, guys, we're getting to a point where it's we've been on.
Here for a good two hours, which I mean, I don't.
Mind going a long, long longer long already.
Well, yeah, it's been over two hours. It's pretty cool.
I love that in depth conversations that goes by fast.
Yeah, or real quick, Kevin, what time is there?
Are you East coach time? Or what time is it over there?
I'm Central, so it's it's ten fifteen, ten sixteen.
Okay for your hour behind? Okay?
Cool?
Are you here Milwaukee.
Stones throwaway? I have a sister that lives up there. Okay, very cool?
Yeah, four years now.
Very cool? Yeah.
We uh the big footing kind of happens towards the Dells area, if you're familiar with that.
Interesting. Yeah, I got certain to find scuba diving back at seventy seven of a Kenosha, Wisconsin. That's where the shop works. Yeah, like certain to find scuba diving up there to shop there in Kenosha.
Oh Okay.
We went to the Great Lakes, the Lake Michigan for the actual dive pork when I was in the military. That was back at seventy seven. That was way way, way way back in the past.
We're not going to say how old, right.
I'm the only logical one of.
The you you's.
Got to have out there. That's why we're out there with him.
We got off of that clip, right right.
I don't know how old you can. You might be younger than me.
I don't know.
Oh, I don't know. I think I think it might be a scooch younger. Yeah, I'm thirteen, uh like forty. Don't let the hair style fool you.
So you Yeah, he's younger than me. I'm forty five. Yeah, all of.
The Ultimate Quad. Now let's move on to the next.
Colbic combined, we could meet match David's age, right.
Well, if you want to match David's age, you know the story about Adam and Eve, right means.
I wrote the first Hiero glyphic.
Okay, we cut up on each other. That's how we are.
That's great. That was awesome.
I'll tell you what.
Before we get out of here, keV, I want to give you the last words. I mean, anything you want to throw out there, share with the audience, anything you want them to know, anything like anything you might have coming up that you want them to know about.
It will.
So I'm going to turn it over to you before we jump off here.
Sure, well, before I do that, you know, thank you Daniel and David and Milissa, great to meet you. Thank you for having me on the show. Definitely would love to come back, and I'll definitely hit you up if I'm in Virginia, Daniel. I think that would be phenomenal. I would, you know, mark something off from the East Coast, which I'm trying to get to. As far as things that I have kind of on the radar again, kind of this you know, middle young teen book that I'm
working on was it real or not? And there was also the movie script been working out. But then you can follow me on pine Shadow design It's on Instagram. I also have a Etsy shop called pine Shadow Designs to try to correlate those two. By all means, if you again, if you have middles in your life or children in your life, while please grab a book Billy Finds Bigfoot. It's a very very nice read. Did all the illustrations, did the you know was the author of it? So please check that out.
Sorry, thank you, Robert, I appreciate that. Letting David a secretly a survivor from ATLANDA. Oh there's no replacement from experience.
Okay, real quick, everybody, I want to remind everybody a lot of you guys, there's a lot of a good group of people that's been on the Life Chat.
It came on a little later.
I highly recommend you guys go back and watch this and listen from the very beginning. Also, be sure to click the description of this podcast, uh, because you know, Kevin's got a book called Billy Finds Bigfoot, and uh the description for that is in there. So if you've got children, even adults, I mean, I think I would find that, you know, fascinating. I would buy it for myself, you know, of course I'll share reading with my grandson, you know.
So you know, so check this description.
The link is in the description for his book called Billy Finds Bigfoot, So so check that out and hopefully, you know, hopefully Kevin will come back and join us again in the future, you know.
So if you if you're listening to this on the rerun, excellent.
We're also on eastboor Bigfoot Radio found on any of your favorite podcast platform so uh.
So, next time, guys, we really appreciate you tuning in. Make sure you still fribe.
Keep it squatchy, m Thank you all right, thanks so yeah, Brol you gotta have a good night and keeping squatchy. Everyone, all right,