Hi eBay friends, this is Suzanne a Wells, your hostess, and you are listening to eBay the right way. This is episode number 70. And today's date is July 20 2022. Today's guest is Anna Newman, who has some enlightening information about eBay search, as she draws on her experience from working in the software industry. This episode is a bit longer than others. So we're gonna jump right in to the chat with Anna.
Hi, listeners today we have Anna with us and she is going to talk about her eBay business a little bit. And then we're going to get into some juicy information about eBay search, which is on everybody's mind, especially after the changes a couple of months ago. So you want to listen all the way to the end because there's gonna be a lot of good information. So first off, welcome, Anna. How are you this morning?
Thank you. I'm great. I'm so happy to be on this. I listen to all your podcasts. And I feel really honored to be part of that. Oh, well, thank you
so much. And if you don't mind sharing, where are you located?
I'm in Reno, Nevada.
Now you said something about there's some back and forth with passion.
Right we My husband has a full time job here. And I I do photography, filmmaking, an art. And so some of my clients are in the bay area where we used to live near San Francisco. And then I also do stuff in the Reno Tahoe area. But I'm really excited because in the fall, I'm actually starting a visual art MFA at the University of Nevada, Reno. So even though I'm like 6 million years old, I'm going back to school.
Oh, so what is MFA? A Master
of Fine Arts.
Oh, gotcha. Okay, a degree. Gotcha. Yeah. Okay, well, and this is the day and age where filmmaking can be not as difficult as it used to be with all the technology and all this you can do at home. So that'll be that'll be interesting. See how you bridge those two worlds?
Yeah, thank you.
Okay. So we usually start off with a question of how you got started with eBay.
So I have kind of a I'm like one of those prodigal eBay children. I started in the very beginning in the 90s. And I was doing I'm one of those like, you know, jack of all trades, master of none kind of people, right. And after college, I was doing well, my, I was trained to be a computer scientist. So that sort of was my main profession. And on the side, I had a friend and
we would make costumes. So we wouldn't make Halloween costumes, dance costumes, costumes for people who like to, you know, go to the Renaissance Fair, whatever.
Like cosplay. That's the big Yeah,
except I didn't even know that word that I mean, this is like in the 80s.
Right, right. I don't think that word existed, it was going to like the Star Trek conferences, as they call them conferences.
Right, right. So anyway, we made we made a lot of stuff for belly dancers, and then we would go to belly dance conventions, and we'd sell these, you know, big skirts, and it's belts and you know, whatever. And then we found out about eBay. We're like, oh, we can expand our business and sell our stuff on eBay. So then we started going to thrift stores and we would get those soap ruffled 80s blouses, and we make like little courses vest to go over them and big puffy skirts and
you're talking about the pirate shirt that Jerry Seinfeld had. The puffy pirate shirt. A pirate
pirate shirts. We sold a lot of puffy pirate shirts, but like I had, I mean, I had a camera that Was it was a pink plastic Barbie digital camera, I think it had like, you know, 12 bytes of photos for like a postage stamp, and I had a dial up modem and the whole thing. So I did that for a long time. And I also sell vintage clothing.
And I started selling vintage clothing around then to both in antique malls and also at specialty, vintage clothing shows and at like big outdoor markets, in particular, the Alameda market that it's, it's this enormous monthly market. So I used to do that every month too. And after a while, I mean selling on eBay, I just, it got bigger and bigger and bigger and changes and changes and changes.
When I first started, you could literally look at every item that was in the category you were selling, because there were like, you know, 200 of them. And then when it got to there were like 2000 of them or whatever. And it was so competitive. And I got interested in other things. And I kind of just stopped. And then I started selling on Etsy, selling sewing patterns. And I still do that. I started that I
think in 2008 ish. But then after I left software, I had a little bit more time and I thought, you know, it's kind of crazy. I'm going to estate sales and stuff. And I'm looking for vintage clothing, or I'm looking for vintage patterns. And I see these other things. But they don't I couldn't put them in my space at the Antique Mall. So why am I just leaving them behind when I could be selling them on eBay. And I had started
to listen to your podcasts. And I had joined the premium library because I was really interested in ephemera, and needlework kits because I thought those might be a good complement to sewing patterns. And then I just got really inspired and I thought this is nuts, I'm just leaving money on the table, I'm going to sell anything. So that's what I've been doing. And it's worked out really great because I have highs and lows and all these
different revenue streams. Like, I might have a fantastic month at the Antique Mall. And people come in and they buy some, you know, for giant, expensive coats, and you know, all this other stuff, or I might have a crummy month, and certainly during the pandemic, like the store wasn't even open. Those were not good months. But my online business would make up
for that. Or maybe there'll be for some reason people slow down buying something on Etsy, but then maybe I have a really good month on eBay, because I find some, you know, weird thing that turns out to be a really great seller. So it's just, I'm not comfortable having just one income stream, it is a lot more paperwork, it is a lot more hassle. But they kind of, you know, work complement each
other. Right? Exactly. And, and also, I just I just love going to antique stores and thrift stores and state sales and stuff like that, if I see something that's really, you know, interesting or weird or whatever, I love that I have a place that I can, you know, find a buyer for it.
Well, a couple of points about what you just said, as far as the ephemera courses. I don't have as many as I would like, in the premium library. I have a lot on my to do list. But what happens is, current things pop up and I'm like, oh, I need to make a video about this. They need to know about that. And so and ephemera is kind of, I don't want to say an all or nothing, but people are very specialized. Like maybe they only do
postcards. And I think I have one in my queue about postcards, you know what to look for and
all of that. But you know, it's it's all kinds of things like you know, a sticker from an old car, a friend of mine sold a like 1967 sticker from a Volkswagen it was the first car parents bought and I think that sold for like $50 It's so much to talk about the like, the ground rule is if it's all paid for look at because, you know, you just never know you see these you know, recipe boxes with all the handwritten recipe cards and diaries and journals and love letters and it's just,
it's just everything that's old. So if you want Didn't they're looking for that? I think there's like eight videos about oh, but
But it's, it's been spectacular because one of the things that you do talk about is playing cards. And living in Reno, there are lots of playing cards.
All right, you're in a good location.
So I have been able to find I found some of those gold nugget ones, and I sold those. And I've also just sold lots where I, you know, put them put together a lot of like, I don't know, transportation or whatever. And then the other thing I do with them is, if I find really cute ones, like with little dogs or something, I'm not willing to sell them for single swap, or you're selling them for like $2 A card, because I just can't bear to deal with. Like, that's too fussy. For me,
the minutiae of it is, like, stuck.
Yeah, exactly. I already kind of have that with my pattern business. I don't need a second one of those. But what I do do with them is, you know, they're really cute, and I put them in my packages is kind of like a premium. Oh, okay. So my, my pattern packages have, like, I put them in comic book bags and boards. So it's an archival little package. And then I put, I'll put something decorative in there, like an old piece of wrapping paper, or a
page out of an atlas. You know, sometimes I try to like if the person bought it is from Utah, if I have a Utah map, I'll put that on hold. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, and then little playing cards. And then my little thank you note, and it's, it makes this really, you know, cute package, I try to do don't know how you feel. But in my mind, there's sort of a difference between selling even in the vintage world, things that are sort of one off and more
commodity. And I think when you're selling commodity things, and you have a store, you need to do something to differentiate yourself, because I don't want to be in a race to the bottom. I want to sell things at a little a little bit more premium, even if I'm not the only one that has it. And so I try to achieve that by you know, I ship really quickly. I'm really responsive to my customers. And then then I try to have this nice packaging. So my eBay, I don't even have a
store on Ebay. I just list items as I find them. And they're not I'm trying to not sell commodity because that I envision my eBay business as more of a like, you know, oh my gosh, I found this Bakelite thing you know, or Oh, I found I've been looking since I listened to your some of your later things. I've been looking for the Tarot and oracle cards. And like, I just sold a box of tarot cards yesterday for more than $100 so and they weren't they weren't even in great
shape. You know, I mean, the cards were but the box is really beat up. But where do you find a
garage sale?
No through store or store?
I never seen him. Yeah, I never see him but I'm, I'm always looking. Yeah, me too. Mixed in those baskets with all those dumb party favors that
what it can be anywhere, right? They could be with like the DVDs, they can be with the books, they could be in that row that has office supplies and things that people don't seem to know where else to put.
It's the office supply and diaper aisle I call it. It's just anything in between.
Exactly. I love that aisle like one time I found there. A box of Dennison stickers there. There were just little paper office supplies, these tiny stickers. They were like, half an inch by half an inch or something. And it was a an old new old stock box of like, I don't know, 10 or 12 Little boxes, they like match boxes like you slide them open and you take these little stickers out. So that for like $100 I have no idea why. I don't know why. I don't know why it was so collectible or desirable.
But
yeah, somebody wanted it and my best find in that junkie aisle was this tiny, tiny, maybe fourth inch tall perfume just like a gravel or sample. I mean I had I just got it because it was 50 cents. And I had to literally get out of magnifying glass. And when I got home, it was so small like I would enlarge it on my phone and I still couldn't read. Anyway, it was some discontinued thing that sold for $100 is just this little tiny, tiny thing hiding
there. So I mean, it is it's a fun treasure hunt on that I'll. But I wanted to ask you about sewing patterns because a lot of people are interested in that. And that's something I have not explored as far as teaching it. What are some guidelines? What do you look for? Does it have to be complete, are older better than newer who's buying them? All that it's, it's
it's not straightforward. It's sort of I would liken it to books. You know, there are books that are incredibly valuable. And especially if they're sort of older and rarer. But then there's an awful lot of books that even though they're old, they're not worth anything. Mm hmm. And then there's books that are newer that you might think wouldn't be worth anything, but for some reason, they are like, maybe they weren't a lot of them printed or something. So I do
sell both old and new. When I started out, I only sold old. And then that was kind of another thing where I decided by being sort of rigid, I was missing an opportunity. But I don't sell just anything of what my overarching philosophy is, is it a good design? So I think about I think about it like a, you know, like a costumer or a clothing designer, although I don't have training as a clothing designer, but I think, you know, is this the flattering garment that would look great on
a lot of people. So in that sense, it's sort of like buying clothing to, you know, is it is it a size zero, but it's fabulous, is it a great size, but it's, you know, made out of a material that I don't like the feel of so there's there are many, there are many things to kind of consider. But by and large, you can't really go wrong with patterns that are pre 1950s, because they're not very
many of them. Although, you know, like, if it's a maternity smock, it's going to have a lot less appeal than a ballgown. Right. So, you know, kind of some common sense there. Loosely speaking, bigger sizes do seem to do better than small sizes, but it's not a hard and fast rule. And there are people who will modify the pattern to fit them, they'll take if they really want that garment that design, and it's too small or too big, they'll change the
pattern to make it work. Or they might take it to a tailor or something to. So if it's a really special fabulous garment, it might not matter what size it is. And there's now a lot of blogs and resources, find out how to work with older patterns that don't fit you exactly or a modern pattern. But maybe you're like not a perfect sample size, and you want to change it. So there's a lot of information for people who are serious about sewing and they know how to do all those things. So I don't
worry about that. That's their problem. I just find a pattern.
Well, I did dabble with sewing, that was something I wanted to learn when I was in my 20s I never took home ec at school for foreign languages because I wanted that knowledge for my SATs. And I just, I just wasn't I don't know, I a lot of my friends took home IQ and they learned it or their moms already knew how to sew and I was very intimidated
by I've never done that. So I taught myself in my 20s my sister and I kind of went through that together and made Halloween costumes for our kids and easy things like window treatments, you know, stuff that doesn't have to be perfect. I made a few outfits for my daughter when she was little. But you know, I, I did not really enjoy it. And like the whole, you know, cutting out of the pattern and all that kind of stuff was just intimidating to
me. I mastered it enough to say okay, I've learned enough to know that. I don't want to keep doing this. But anyway, so when you find patterns, use patterns, do you open them up and see if they've been cut? Or do you need to sell the uncut ones or how does that work?
I I'm very meticulous, I do make mistakes, because you know, I'm human. And if I do make a mistake, you know, I just work with the customer to make it good. But no I do. I do something really elaborate and my friends got to make fun of me but the ones that are uncut. I don't don't need to do anything other than just make sure that
the instructions are there. The ones that are cut, I actually open them all up, and I like unfold the things, pattern pieces and make sure they're all there and that they're not messed up and iron them. So. So if you buy a cut pattern from me, I think in some ways, it's an advantage, because it's already cut out, you know, you don't know,
the ironing that doesn't bother me. I mean, you want a presentable product, that's not all. Some people will follow them up very well and just kind of shove them back in there. And it's, it's a disaster, and I wouldn't want my customer opening that, but I'm here even now just sitting here talking with you, this is a, an item that fits perfectly with my small doesn't take up much room easy to ship, they're usually very cheap. I mean, you could probably buy a bigger amount at
home. Just you know, if you have waste, you have waste, but I can't, I can't see anybody opening all these patterns in the thrift store to make sure everything's there.
No, no, I just. And I do take that into consideration when I'm choosing what to buy. If it's, if it's cut, I know I'm gonna have to put in that extra time. And if it's only going to sell for $6 or something, it might not be worth it. So I kind of, you know, even if it is completed, it's gonna take me a while to do it. But I'm also I'm a member of the vintage fashion Guild, and you know, we have pretty, we try to have very knowledgeable listings, and we try to be very
careful
with our merchandise and present it properly and be knowledgeable about it and haven't just kind of have a high standard. So that's also another reason that I, you know, I do that I would anyway, but it's it goes along well with being part of the Vfg. And I'm also able to put Vfg as a keyword in my, my listings. And so if there are people who are interested in selling vintage clothing, they might want to look into joining, because there are some advantages, you know, people
trust that name. And so if your listing is Vfg listing, they know that you've done everything possible to represent your item correctly. And, and that you haven't, you know, taken a label off of something else and hot glued it in.
Yes, like that's why people buy to St. John and the Ralph Lauren buttons and labels is so they can take a crappy target navy blue blazer and convert it to a fake a higher end thing with the buttons and the label and nobody is going to know the difference which I bet a lot of listeners didn't even know that goes on like Chanel, buttons and St. John and all that higher end stuff. I mean, that's what's happening to some of it. It's Hello, that lasers fake news. It's not real. Yeah,
there's there's a lot of fraud. And it's not just like you say it's it's people passing something off as something else. It's not necessarily just the knock off problem. So I always try if I find something that's high end, I try to look very carefully at the way the label is attached. I guarantee that there is nothing that comes out of a high end manufacturing process that involves hot glue.
Right, right. And I love the vintage label guild,
that was the resource, the vintage.
I've used that for as long as I can remember as far as dating when a label was made, so you can verify that it's 5067 days because these clothing manufacturers they change their labels all the time. Absolutely you you can't be sure it's even authentic, or you want it to be right in your listing, because you don't want people finding it and it doesn't apply to them that frustrates them and then they don't come
back to eBay at all. Or it doesn't come up in search because it's not it's not the right decade.
That's right. And I think it's harder now when you're shopping to it used to be that I you know, I was really familiar with color palettes and prints from former eras and now a lot of that is being reproduced, but it's in
different materials. So now just looking you know, you gotta like touch it and say oh, no, that's, that's it looks like a 60s print but it's it's modern and and it really helps to look at the label and you can tell It's just a modern label, it has different kinds of care instructions, different fonts different, you know,
what I think is Lilly Pulitzer all the time, and it's that darn crown and IV, their prints are just so close. So that could be what? No, that's not it. No,
and it used to be, you could kind of be like, oh, a metal zipper. And now it's like, everybody has these metal.
By the way, it's sewn in there. Yeah. Well, also, it
wouldn't be showing like it is now. But you know, you're just flipping along and you get all excited. And then it's like, oh, darn it.
That's not what I thought. But although I will say I do have some crown and IV items for sale, like their linen tops, you'd wear at the beach pattern, like if it's a unique thing, like a seahorse, or sharks or something very specific. I find those kinds of things beach themed clothing sells really well, if it's high quality, you know, something like that. But yeah, that I think that's all intentional. It's like, oh, they want to look like Lilly Pulitzer. But, yeah,
it's not. So I didn't know we'd get off into this sewing patterns tangent, but I'm glad we did, because that is something that kind of intimidates me because I, I'm not a seamstress. I haven't been doing it for decades. And I mean, I know enough to know what's inside what the pattern is. But who do you think your ideal customer is? Is it people that just like to sew? Are they making it for a specific event? Or what do you think about your customer profile that buys these patterns?
Well, I have a wide variety of customers, some of them are buying because they want a, you know, a retro look. And they can't find it in their size, or they can't find it with the details they want. There are people that are my customers who are doing cosplay, or theatrical, or film. And I do sell a lot of costume patterns that are modern, the costume patterns have really evolved in the last few decades and people.
There's some really amazing designers who licensed their work or create work specifically for the big pattern manufacturers like simplicity, Patrick McCall, whatever. And they're making, you know, historic gowns that people might wear
to
a period event, when people that go to cosplay costume, like costume con, Comic Con, you know, more like superhero II kind of things. There's some beautiful designs that are available for those. So, you know, when I was growing up, you'd go and you'd be flipping through those big counter books, and there'd be like, the Witch, the clown. The rabbits, you know, like four
options. Yeah, yeah. It's not like, yeah, yes, the princess, and then there would be the set for your church nativity, and then there would be a set for you know, you can make your Santa Claus costume. And always like a jester. But now, I mean, it's really specialized and spectacular. And they're very expensive. So that's another reason to sell modern ones. If you're going to the pattern store, this patterns are like, I don't know, 1929. You know,
they're, they're not cheap. So people will come to Etsy and eBay looking for a new pattern. But when that's not as pricey, as if they went down to Joanne's, or whatever, and bought
that I did not know, because I exited the sewing world when my daughter was born. Like, I don't have time for this anyway. So that was 1994 95. And I don't think I've shopped for a pattern since then. Yeah,
like I have one here. This is a this is from 2016. And it's just a pattern to make little accessories for your costume. Like little purses and things. And the retail on this was 7095.
Okay, okay, and
it's not like it's some giant wedding gown or something. It's just
do you normally lock these up or sell? No,
no, I sell them individually. Okay, so something like that is probably going to sell for more around $10 plus shipping.
But that's the bread and butter Item. Yes, exactly. And now, I mean, you've inspired me to get some and try it. Because the way I see them at my thrift stores, there's usually several bundled together in a plastic bag, like you can't see every one of them in there anyway. And it's made, when they do that more dollars for like 20 of them. So it's going to be pretty cheap. And that would be a pretty quick research. And if they don't work out, you just recycle them or
right can you can, you can just look them up by number. So they're very fast to look up, even if you just put it straight into Google. But you can also put them into eBay sold, or you can put them into Etsy. And you just put the manufacturer and the number. So like that one I just showed you, we'd look at Butterick you know, 5580 and then you would see what the comps are. There's a lot of competition. So it's, it's, you know, it's kinda like, I don't
know, selling gap. clothing or something, you know, okay, yeah. Yeah, there's money to be made, but it's not it's going to be in volume, not in, by and large. I mean, there's exceptions, but and the things that people also make are their range far beyond just costumes and stuff like that, like people buy, I sell patterns for, you know, little dog coats, and, and
oh, the pet industry is just unbelievable. I did a little, one of my Halloween lessons, was just mentioning the, how many costumes are purchased for pets. And that's not even just for Halloween. That's all the time they have, you know, pet costume contests and parades and all this stuff. And you know, that is that is a huge industry, it was something like $7 billion dollars was spent last year on pet costumes, just the costumes.
And I mean, I know people, double income, no kids, and they, their pets are people and they have a costume for everything. That would be a great subcategory to specialize in these pet costumes.
I just I would say though, that if you're you are shopping for patterns, and you have Wi Fi in this store or the state sale or whatever, I would definitely try to look some of them up and make sure it's worth your time. Because it's it's, it's not always you know, and if you look at the the illustration, and you go, Oh, it's an old pattern, and you go
I would never wear that. Don't get it if it looks like something you know that you're from be at war, and you remember it, you know, and she's the one that had the hairnet don't buy that one.
For the ones you had made for your bridesmaids, and if any of my bridesmaids are listening, I apologize every year for making me wear those dresses with the giant puffy sleeves the leg of mutton soup and
let's see, no, I would get that one because that one's back in again.
I was back in I had a Valentine's wedding. So I had to pay for my own wedding. Because we were poor. We I didn't have a big ol elaborate wedding. It was just in the church and the reception was in the church basement with fried chicken and a cake. You know, that was about it. So but I had those big old puffy sleeves. And you know, the bridesmaids was kind of made to look like bride's dress you know so that comes up on my memories my anniversary what would have would have been? And I just
didn't like girls. I am sorry.
Yeah, I remember wearing those and then big you know, those big cabbage roses, right? Everything was like upholstery material. Yeah, I've had so many of those because it's like you'll be in everybody to get married at the same time. So you'll be a bridesmaid like, you know, three times in a year and then you've got these things in your closet and one of them. Well, I won't go into details. Remember what it was like, Oh my
God. But um, yeah, that's been something that's been a little bit of a stretch for me is to say, okay, 80s is vintage. Now.
I know.
People are interested in this and just because it was something that I had a preference about at the time, don't let my preference effect, you know, that just because I didn't like it then doesn't mean somebody doesn't want it now, or maybe they're doing, you know, a theatrical thing or something that it's appropriate for so. But I used to have a hard cut off at the end of the 70s. And
now, anything goes. If I think it's, if I think it's a flattering design that someone would like, you know, so I saw a lot of princess seams wrapped dresses, fit and flare. And then, you know, stuff that's more iconic for the era, it comes from a lot of lot of flips. A lot of lingerie people seem to be interested in making their own lingerie, which I would never attempt that would
be satin fabric. So well, yeah, I have a horror story about that. And until real quick. When my kids were little, I did make Halloween costumes. And so my daughter wanted to be a princess, she was like four. And so nothing in the store would ever fit her because she was just a short squatty little kids. And it was a challenge. And my son was the opposite. He was so skinny, everything fell off of them. So, you know, I got the princess pattern and the pink satin material and the lace
and all this stuff. And I mean, I worked on that costume for weeks. And I don't know how many times I took it apart, because that fabric is so slippery to work with. So there was a lot of errors that I just were on the inside like nobody could tell. So we go take them trick or treating and we went to a friend's house and the kids get back and Halloween in Georgia can be warm. So you know, they rip off their costumes, and
throw them on a table. And little did we know there was a tiny votive candle on that table. Oh no, I never kept candles around where my kids could reach them. But you know, it was Halloween, there was candles and so all of a sudden, just Ruth's Oh no, you is flaming costume in the middle of their living. And so my ex husband grabbed it and ran out the back door and threatened guard and assaulted and if the fire went out and so my poor little daughter is just like my
friends that Scott's. After all that hard work up until this day, and probably until the day I'm no longer here and maybe even after she's gonna have that story ready? Anytime there needs to be a bad mom story. Let me bring up my Halloween costume. I know, well, she probably could have worn it the next year anyway, because you know, when four to five, she's gonna grow. So it was just like my masterpiece was just up in
flames. And of that fabric burning stayed in their house for a couple of weeks.
So that was your first that was your first experience of the burn test.
Yeah, that was the burn test. Mommy burned out my Halloween costume. Oh my god. She said that every time we met a new person for the next two years. So that's my bad? No, no, it doesn't smell like an animal fiber.
And let's see it is
how does it burn into ashes or parts? Yeah, I have a burn test video in my premium library. So if you don't know what something is, you can take a little thread of it and or cut an inconspicuous little piece of it and just burn it to see what it does. And if it's if it's natural, like animal like wool, it will burn a certain way. And you can like compare a piece of your own hair to it.
Like do they burn the same? And because sometimes when you're selling those crocheted Afghans, yeah, you can't like you can usually tell acrylic because it's not itchy. It feels good. But wool is kind of itchy, it's heavier. Sometimes you just don't know and be honest. A lot of times I just say we don't know what it's made of, and let them figure it out. If it matters, it may not even matter, but Okay, we're gonna move on to the teaser of the SEO information
now this how happened was,
Anna sent me an email that said, I've been listening to all your recent updates about eBay, slow sales changes to the views reporting, and wanted to throw in my thoughts. So she explained that she worked in software quality assurance for decades, including some pretty, pretty big companies. And you know, this was kind of a long email. So I don't know, if you want to go buy this as an outline, or if you just want to start talking about
it. Yeah, I can just kind of talk about it. So I've worked in software for a long time. And I worked on a lot of old software. And it would be software that, you know, when people start a software company, they have an idea, and the computer tools and languages that are available to them at that time, influence how they
make the program. And so do you know what you think it's going to be what you think your business is going to be at the beginning, but then if you're successful, the business continues to grow and expand. And the software has to keep up with the new ideas, the new languages, you know, new functionality, whatever the marketing guy went out and promised the customer and then you've got to, you know, make it do that. And eBay is a, it's
been around a long time. And it's not like, I think sometimes when we think about software, we have a tendency to think of it like, oh, it's like a program. But it's not, it's a lot of programs that do different things, maybe a good way to think about it is your house, your house is just a house, but it has like an electrical system, it has a plumbing system, it has an air conditioning system, it has, you know, a roof and windows and all of these things can kind of interact in ways that are not
always really great. Right? If you've ever done like a remodeling project, you're like, Oh, I'm just gonna do this little thing. And then you open the wall. And it turns out, there's something wrong with the wiring, and you got to get that fixed and it like kind of snowballs. Or the guy is, you know, planting a tree in your backyard, and he accidentally breaks the waterline or something. The software's got a
lot of interactions. And sometimes the person that wrote the original thing, maybe he went on to another company, you know, a million years ago, or the person who wrote it, she didn't write down what she did very well. And no one really knows how it works, then when you start changing it to add new capabilities, it doesn't always go as well. Okay, there's always these unintended consequences. And you know, we hear people
talk about bugs and stuff. And I think, maybe if you're outside the industry, there are people whose whole job it is, and like this was my job at one time is to test the software. And there's kind of two ways you can test it, you can test it, to make sure that it works, right? Does it do what it's supposed to do? You can also test it to make sure you can't make it do
something wrong. So if it's supposed to, you know, you're I think a good example of this is that shipping labels, like there's a limit to how much information can be in the field. And if your customers address exceeds that it doesn't really work very well, right, you have to move some of it down or something. Well, that's a limitation somewhere in the software, it says there can only be this many characters in this
first thing. So somebody, at some point, tested that and made sure that if you put in those characters, it would work, right. And if you put in too many you get an error. But you know, did they test? What if you put in a bunch of garbage stuff, like, you know, exclamation points and things, what happens, then maybe they tested that maybe they didn't mean, you can test
that's where the that's where those error 103 or whatever, like, we know it's an error, because we tested it, and it didn't work. So when you have that and they're like, What does it say? What's the error, then they automatically know what your problem is, because that exceeds the limitations or wasn't prior to that way or it cannot do that.
Right? So you can imagine. Think of all the things that eBay does. And think of how many listings there are. I mean, like if eBay listings were a phonebook, it'd be like, you know, six feet thick or so. Yeah, and we're all busily typing away and uploading photos and modifying things and people are making offers and it's it's all happening in time, too. So sometimes things that work okay when they happen In a sequence
might not work, okay? If they collide, like someone makes an offer, what happens if someone makes an offer? Right? While we're changing the price? What does it do? Right? Because you can't change the price if there's an offer out. But you know, I mean, there's a lot of timing scenarios. And then, on top of that, think about all of you've talked about this before all of the are you on a phone? Are you on an Android phone? Are you on an iPhone? Are you on? You know, are you on your 2011
iPad that you still use? Because you're too cheap to upgrade? Are you?
Are you on the most current operating system? Are you using Firefox? I hate it does not mesh? Well, with a lot of things. That's one of my first questions. Are you using Firefox on a desktop? Oh, yes, well, then don't switch to something else. Because it just doesn't. MeSH is the best word. It's just there's a lot can go wrong there. So it's not just eBay is down. It's not working. No lot. Guys, that might be you. If there was update on iPhone, and you didn't do it, then I
work right. So all that said,
Whenever there's sort of a fundamental change to something in one of these selling platforms, I think it's inevitable that they're going to be consequences that weren't expected. So I remember one of your listeners was like, I just listed this thing. And it has watchers, but no views that isn't possible. So I mean, that's, that's, that's something that wasn't accounted for
somewhere. It could have been, I could have been, it could be it could be represented correctly in the database, but not showing up correctly when you go to look at it. So what did you learn?
I learned that since that q&a, that even though the listings are turning over every 30 days, and the views are resetting, the watchers are being carried, because there you go, I re on my educational products that have lots of watchers, you know, somebody's going to buy it later, or they just want to see how many other people are buying it. And that those my 2021 bolo book listing has been up over a year, and the watch has just continued to
increase. And then the calendars not as long but the same thing. So and then other listings that had watchers they're carrying over. That's my experience. So I don't know, I'm seeing that. But that does make sense.
I mean, imagine you're trying to design this feature, you're like, Okay, we're gonna filter out the robots flow. I don't even I can't even guess what that might involve. I don't know how they know, you know, that's a real person in a real browser, versus a person who's in an anonymizing browser versus a program that's crawling through things versus Google versus, you know, being versus I don't know, that sounds like a very complicated problem to me. But obviously, they're trying to
solve it. And then, you know, how do you know you didn't accidentally filter out more than you wanted? Or, you know, I'm sure this is, it sounds like a really big change to me. And what I've noticed, on other platforms, when there's a really big change,
something that
fundamentally affects all of the listings on the platform, it seems like it takes a while for the outside search engines to catch up again, I don't know if they have to reindex I don't know. If there's, you know, something new that gets published out. But it always seems to me after a really big change, just it's as if my items have become invisible to the world, sometimes within the platform, sometimes not within the platform, but outside the
platform. And a lot of people, I think find our steps through Google, they don't find it on eBay, per se, eBay and Google have a really close partnership. So I think that also is part of why there are now so many fields to fill in for, you know, those recommended item specifics. I think that has to do I'm guessing, I don't know, but I think it has to do with
partnerships. They have like there's this eBay refurbished now, where people are selling, you know, large companies are selling their refurbished merchandise to get their catalog into eBay and get all those items. And there's not somebody sitting there typing like we are. They're doing it programmatically and and those eBay and those companies had to work together to figure out how that automatic listing is going
to happen. And I I feel like maybe sometimes we individuals are impacted by changes that are made to accommodate large companies, partners that eBay has that, you know, I mean, think about the revenue involved in that they have a deal with whoever these partners are this beneficial to them and to eBay. And you know, here we are with our, like, I'm listing my book.
Well, and that, that brings up a great point where people are out there freaking out, for lack of a better word on you know, eBay doesn't like the small seller anymore, we're all gonna get pushed out, you know, that whole mentality? And I don't really believe that. No, I don't know what you sell. Because if you're trying to sell refurbished electronics, and eBay now has a partnership with some gigantic Corporation, and is giving them preferential treatment and search, then yeah, that's
totally happening. But if you're selling vintage, mid century, modern home decor, and stuff that isn't being made anymore, or is very hard to find, is not like one of these current trends, like, you know, iPhone cases, and Nikes, and all these products that have so much competition, you have to go find a specialty that is not overrun with gigantic corporate sellers.
And so that's why, you know, I shifted everything sort of away from clothing, to vintage items, things that are hard to find, because, you know, there's going to be less competition and that's just common business sense. Why do not sell a coach purses, people, if you look up coach handbag, you're gonna see 150,000 or more listings, like this idea of, I'm gonna go to the outlet store and buy some coach handbags for this price, and then sell them on eBay for more. You are just, it's just
like jumping in the ocean. Good luck with that. But you know, if you specialize in mid century modern brass stuff that truly is vintage, and has, you know, some kind of identification on it. You're not gonna have as much competition because Stein being made anymore? How do you feel about that?
I think that these, the addition of new markets to eBay is good for us, because it brings more people to eBay and makes more people aware of it. And it also in some ways, maybe makes it feel less, like a garage sale and more like a professional. You know, more, I hate to say this, but sort of more like Amazon more trusted. And so maybe in the short term, it's, you can consider it
competition for us. But in the long term, the more people are on eBay, the more people potentially could find our items and buy from us. But I do think that, you know, we have to think of ourselves as a class of revenue for eBay. And remember that we're not the only class, there are they, they have many partners in many programs, they even sell some of their software, to other industries to
do other things. I mean, they've they've developed a lot of expertise around things like detecting fraud, detecting money laundering, you know, and they can take the programs that are built for that purpose. And they can even, you know, sell those as a separate business to other businesses that need to do that for some reason. And it's got nothing to do with, you know, buying and selling coffee mugs.
It's a whole separate revenue stream for them, but the more successful they are, I think, the more customers we potentially have. So I don't I don't begrudge them doing, you know, we don't want them to go out of business.
And I agree with you 100% on these partnerships with corporations and other companies is a source of traffic for the site, and we want what's best for the site, because as you said, it becomes more well known and you know, 2020 I paid attention to the customers that were buying when everything shut down. And a lot of them it was their first transaction. They
just came to eBay. And I noticed because I welcomed that, you know, here they are stuck at home and they're, they're giving eBay a try and I I want as their first transaction, you know, I wanted to make sure everything went right. So I'm back. It's for the community, it's for everybody. So it's all about how you look at it when you're on YouTube listening to people rant about how eBay doesn't care about the small seller. You know, it's it's their business, they can do whatever they want.
And, but I think we have the responsibility to think about our business, think about what you're selling, when you're looking things up, look at the active listings to how many are active. That's your competition. So if you find some vintage Muppets plush, and you've looked at complete IDs, and you know what, how to price it, and then you look at actives, and there's
only five of them? Yes, do that, you know, get away from things that have, you know, 1000s and 1000s of active listings, because odds are, you're not going to sell it, or it's going to take a really long time.
Yeah, commodity commodity selling is tough. You know, it's like when you go to the grocery store, you know, are they making $2? A box on cereal? No, they're making two cents. So are you going to try and be Walmart? Or are you going to try and be a boutique, my preference is to try and be a boutique, because I don't have enough energy before.
I've been there and done that on Amazon. And it's just, it's exhausting. It's demoralizing, because you think you've found this great thing, and then all of a sudden, five more sellers have it and it's $1 less than yours. And you know what? With Amazon, you paid for that up front, you've got 100 of
them and too bad. So sad. You know, and then that Amazon almost bankrupted me, I had to get out of that just for that whole retail arbitrage thing it was, it kept me awake at night worried about, you know, okay, what's gonna happen to me next, and then you shift over to eBay and, and do more of it takes a lot more looking on the front end, to find the right and you may not come out of the thrift store with 50 items, you may
come out with two or zero. But it's about looking for things that aren't covered up with competition. Because you're doing yourself a favor. You're saving yourself a lot of work and disappointment if you focus on items that don't have a lot of competition. So one more question is, since you have a lot of experience with SEO, are there any things you do every day every week to improve SEO on your own listings? Yeah, I
look at comps and I see what what other people are calling their items. And I also try looking for the broader thing and seeing what comes up
in that. So for example, to go back to sewing patterns, the pattern number sure that's great, but that implies that the person knows that that pattern even exists, but maybe they're just looking for they want to make a cottage decor dress, you know, so I don't know if people like to use Etsy but you might consider Etsy a good place to look for comps because it'll do the prefilling like Google does.
Like if you type cottage core then it'll give you like 10 things after that product core dress, cottage core, you know, I don't know whatever coughs drink so since those are the first things that presents you with, you know, those are things that are people are looking for. So those are terms you might consider using as your key words in in your title or whatever.
And then I also think the order of things is important for while I was subscribing to something called marmalade, which will grade your Etsy listings and tell you how many people they think we'll see it in a variety
of different ways. And I was when I first tried that I was kind of shocked and I ultimately I ended up I ended up redoing like my entire stores worth of stuff with kind of because you know something that worked great five years ago, it's not working anymore and if if it was working for you, you just kind of keep doing it out of you know both
habit and success. So I try to I try to stay aware of what items in the areas I like to sell how they're being described, how they're being, what order the things are in the title words and then also Then the listing, you know what's at the top, because I've kind of learned the hard way that people don't read the whole thing. Ya know, Google doesn't read the whole thing, Google only reads the first bits
of it, right? So I would, I would not say I was an expert, but I try really hard to make the most of, you know what I have, and the time I have, because nobody's going to buy it, if they can't find it, you can have the best thing in the world. And if you screwed up the listing,
yeah, and everybody makes mistakes. So how many items you have listed
under 100. And I don't necessarily list every day as really what I have found in the progress or the course of, you know, my other business sourcing. But it's a terrific supplement. I'm so happy about it. And I love having the flexibility to sell anything, I mean, anything. There's no limits. In the antique mall, I have limits on what I can sell on Etsy, I have limits on what I can sell on eBay, there's no limit at all, if it if I think I
can. If I get excited about it, I can sell it and somebody else can get excited, too.
Yeah, and there's no barriers to entry, you can just start, I did Etsy for about a year when it first came out doing vintage items. And I felt like either you have to have a specialty item, a personalized item that you can do a quantity of, or it's very unique, or I just couldn't get any traction on it super,
super competitive, and it requires a lot more.
Like, you really need
to have all of the pictures filled in. And you really need to have a very long, I mean, people don't people do find doing different things, but it wants this more sort of rich experience. So I can, I can leverage things that I've done in the past. But if you're doing like one off, it's extremely time consuming, and it's extremely competitive. So and you know, you pay for that listing whether the item sells or not. And when three months, or whatever it is now it keeps
getting shorter. Right. When it renews you pay again, so every month, I have overhead of all of the items that you know are up for renewal that didn't sell and I live on eBay, there's none of that, you know, I just I do pay a little bit higher final value fees than the Etsy commission, but I only pay that stuff when my thing sells. And I love that.
Yes, that's a good point. And now Etsy started as had to be vintage or handmade. And now I believe that changed the definition of handmade to where it could be made in China. It can be made in Vietnam by an eight year old and as long as the mill and touched it. That would
explain, I see these listings, and I'm like,
this is right, that's what's happened.
Is it a list is a production partner like, you know, I mean, I'm making this up, but like, you know, Mattel, I'm like, Yeah, right.
Yeah, back to eBay, SEO. This is my opinion. I'm not trained in the SEO world to work professionally. It's just my research. And my experience is. I mean, there's some things we know people talk about the algorithm. I mean, we're never going to know all of it, because eBay doesn't want us to know all of it. And they may not even know all of it. You know, it's I'm
sure it's constantly changing, because the people, like say they make a partnership with Google Shopping. Well, that's going to require eBay to make changes internally. We don't know what they are, but they're going to happen.
And I feel like people want this list of things they can do every day, every week to improve the algorithm to improve their placement in search. And I personally think, since I've been on eBay since 2003. And it's you got to experiment with what works for you. It's, it's about what you're selling. We talked about selling items that don't have a lot of competition. Well, of course, you're gonna be on the first page if there's only 10 of
them available. And that's the best way to get to the top is self things that don't have a lot of competition, but, you know, is it ending so many listings a day and restarting them? Is it raising the price on items that have watchers, is it listing a certain number of new items every day and there's just no there's no right or wrong
answer. I mean, some days I go three days Isn't that listing something because I'm deep, and making videos and podcasts and other things, and I don't have any bandwidth left at the end of the day to think about it, but I just, I feel like, you guys have to take it on yourselves to experiment, you know, give things 30 days, okay, for the next 30 days, I'm going to end five listings a day and restart them and list three new items.
And every day, I'm going to send you know, raise the price on three items with watcher, you know, make up your own recipe for how you want to do it. And, you know, you have to be innovative, you have to think of what you can do what is in your power, instead of just I'm not getting any sales, what are you doing every day to improve that? And it takes time, it takes dedication, and patience. It's not going to happen in a week, you have to do these things over time.
Yeah, if you I mean, just try to put yourself in the shoes of eBay or whatever platform like what would you want? Who would you want to give preference to you want to give preference to sellers that have integrity, that have good feedback that have that make you look good as a platform? Right? Yeah. So I felt that by being a good citizen of wherever I'm selling, I'm, you know, I'm making myself a good candidate to be given higher search,
placement. And by being an active participant, I'm making myself a candidate for better placement. And then beyond that, you know?
Well, one thing I've noticed is that new sellers do get a Oh, bump in search. Because I look at that, like this one sold, my did mine didn't, what's different, you know, I have all this great feedback. I've been here for a long time. They're new. And I think it's partly to encourage them to keep listing and selling. And, you know, eBay is great. I just started last week, and I've already sold 10 things. And I think that is programmed.
And I know people that close an account, well, they don't close, they just go open a new account and start selling on that one, because they know they're gonna get that bump and search, which I don't think that's a great business decision, because then you're not getting that trail of feedback that shows that you're reputable. And I think that's one of the factors in the algorithm is your feedback
score, obviously. So if you're an established seller, or a seasoned seller, and you notice that you're not imagining it, I think that's,
and I think we forget to that it's like people are not necessarily finding us inside eBay. They're just out in the world typing in their search engine, like Google or something. And then, you know, our items may show up there on Etsy, I can see a report that says the traffic comes from Etsy itself, it comes from outside Etsy, it comes from the equivalent of promoted listings, or I drove it, which I think means I send a coupon or I send it, you know, whatever, and they
give you a pie chart. I don't know how to do that on eBay. We know they give us that. But we know it's the same. So just because like maybe you're in the top few items in an eBay search. And also, we're not presented the same things when you use search, what you get is not the same as what I get when I search, right. So
in that by design, I mean, that's marketing, because Oh, Suzanne buys all these, you know, health products and, you know, aromatherapy or whatever and then Anna buys, you know, workout stuff and, you know, DVDs and things for her dog. So right get what's the best match, which that's why it's called that for you personally. Exactly. You have a friend, you can side by side search for things, both on Google and on eBay. And you're gonna get
different results. And so people were like, Well, I went and then search for my listings and it didn't come up. Well, that's just for you. You don't know what, what is it? 185 million users on eBay. We're all getting stuff. So anyway, we have gone on and on. And we probably could go another two hours. But we're gonna wrap this up and say Thank you for not only your email, but for agreeing to come on and talk
about this. It. I think what you explained with how intricate search is on eBay, it makes us all feel a little bit better. Like, maybe you're not doing anything wrong, this is just Oh, no, I don't hire me
we have to live in. Right? It's a very, it's a very complex system, it's having to make changes what it's not like, they can just turn it off, make changes, test it and turn it back on, they have to change things while we're all using it, then that adds complexity and risk also. But, you know, it's, I think it's really important when you decide to sell on eBay or anywhere, for that matter that you accept that you don't have full control of the
process. You know, we all kind of expect like, well, maybe, for some reason, the site would go down for a couple hours or something. But that's just the beginning of what, you know, might or might not be impacting us, and they might take things in a totally new direction tomorrow. And then we'd have to choose, where are we going to stay? Or are we going to go? Are we going to adapt? You know, I like to think of it is like, you know, get on the bus or get under it? Right? So, right?
It's, it's tough, but I'm never on my own. With the largest email list, I could create the best website, I could hire a build, I will never achieve the level of exposure that I get on eBay. So I accept the limitations.
Yeah, and I say this all the time. But this really is a case of you don't know what you don't know. And then you don't want to know all of it. Because it's so complicated. It's like, just focus on what you're doing. Stay in your lane, don't look at your neighbor's paper, don't worry about them, and do more of what's working for you. Because there's no right or wrong. It's just you got to pay attention to
your results. And you know, if that thing you've been selling for five years, doesn't sell anymore, then it's time to give that up and figure out a new thing like sewing patterns.
That like low price point. High High, high profit margin low price point.
But thanks again for coming on here in the Facebook.
I'm not that big on Facebook. So I'm I pop in and out occasionally. But I try to I get I just waste too much time there. I love myself. Yeah, it's like
the diving board to the time suck world. It's just get in there. And oh, look at that dog costume. And so well, if let's stay in touch. And if anything new comes up, you know, we'll have you on again to talk more. I really enjoyed your show I
had, I wish I had really like actual deep insight. But all I can really say is just you know, the complexity is mind boggling. And it's some like we think well what happened in my listing. But you know, maybe think it's a miracle that all my listings are there and working.
Exactly some days you just have to be grateful for what is working. So let's let's not let our heads explode over all these details and just just keep going as I always say so. Thanks again. I'll let you get back to your day and appreciate you coming on.
Oh, thank you. It's been a real pleasure. Okay, bye.
It was so fun to finally meet Anna face to face on Zoom. After knowing her through email for a while now. Several times she has sent me interesting links about trends or her insights to different parts of reselling. So she is very helpful. Thanks again for spending some time with us today. And I will be back next week as usual with another eBay seller chat as Casey Qassem used to say, keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars. Bye everybody.