MIXED CHICKS - Curls and Clams

Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke. I'm your host, Colleen Witt, and today we have two very special guests. We have owners, founders creators of Mixed Chicks, Wendy and Kim are in the building. Hi, Hi are having us. Thank you for coming. I was like emailing your team. I think we had emailed them. We're going back and forth for a while, and they were just like, if you reach out at this date and this time, you could maybe get them. And so we are so

You are going to have linguini with clam sauce today. Yes, it sounds like something that will cost a lot of money, but when you see how simple the ingredients are, you will see that anybody can do this on a budget. We're using canned clams, and that is really what kind of makes the price cut.

So yeah, I'm gonna start.

Oh, you know what, can you tell us all the ingredients for your dish?

Yes, we have some fresh garlic here that we're gonna chop. Fine, we have fresh parsley that's been chopped. We have some fresh lemon. We also have just a little bit of butter. You don't have to do the butter, but you know, butter makes everything taste good. Yeah, yeah, butter, uh huh so, and a little olive oil and lemon.

Juice and like we said, the can clamps.

So yeah, we just start out by saute and the garlic in some olive oil about two tablespoons, and I'm gonna finish chopping these off.

And then just for the listeners hearing like this dish, I always say the cheaper the dish, the better the story. This dish was probably at most ten dollars, and I'm only saying ten dollars because you know, you have to if you want to add the parsley and fresh lemon because we have lemon juice on the side, Like this dish could probably honestly be all in like six dollars. So this is really creative. It's the first time we've

So, well, you're nearly on the West coast, you might have a lemon tree in your backyard, especially in La Yeah, so that shuts down, okay, right, Yeah, so that's a good thing.

So take me back to what was going on during the clam Linguini era.

Ooh, so I was living in my hometown in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and I was teaching in the same school system that I am from, and Atlantic City is it's pretty rough right now.

Especially the public school system.

And it was whenever that was that must have been I was probably Yeah, let me not date myself completely, but I'm gonna say it was about twenty five years ago. And so living on a teacher's salary isn't easy, especially when your income is also going to help.

I was a math and science teacher.

So if you wanted to do the experiment in the book, you had to come up with those supplies. You had to purchase, You had to puse. You really wanted your students involved, you didn't have to. You could have just read the assadne you could have read it with them. Do you think they really would have been engaged?

No?

So yeah, you were. You didn't really have a lot of money for yourself.

So this this was a teacher making a difference, right, wow, by offering something to her students.

And what about you? What was your broke dish?

Now you know we joke about that because you could be broke, but we were always going to eat right, So it was like we could make any concoction in the house.

But I was thinking, I always loved to make these.

I would call them egg rolls, right, so you know the big Asian style, you know egg girls you find in the store, the long eight rolls, and I would use chicken, So just get some.

You would make them from scratch? Oh yeah, and what would you use to make it?

So all you need is the paper, the squares, right, any type of chicken, chicken brass, you know, whatever's on sale chicken at that time, and you could substitute it for another kind of meat, right, I used black beans, I'd use parsley, and I'd.

Use no, actually not parsley.

I'd use cilantro, cilantro, and i used cheese.

Wow.

And it's really simple. I just saw te you know, my chicken cheese.

So it would be like a burrito.

But it's like a burrito in an eggrol and you just so you cook everything on the stove, take your wan ton, roll it up, deep, fry it. Boom, You're done. And those would last for like two days. That's actually pretty it's really good.

I hope everyone's like notes on that. I'm gonna try that.

We're going to do two meals.

We'll do I'll come back and do that, Yes, come back.

Yeah. So that's okay.

So you were a teacher and what did you go to school for? Are you Kanye? Are you? Are you Kanye West dropping out of college?

Or did you absolutely entrepreneurs the power? Actually my career started in television. I was in TV production. Okay, what is the TV production everything? I started from being a PA that's the first step, production assistant of course, to coordinating producer assistant to line producer, assistant to production coordinator.

So I worked my way up.

Then I became a mommy and the stress of appeasing everybody else just became too much.

It was like, you know what, I have a kid.

Yeah, I don't really want to play this game anymore, and I bowed out.

But I do miss TV.

It's crazy because when I think of people in entertainment, you're always put in these like I hate to say it, it's terrible, compromising positions, but you always have like these limited budgets, short timelines, fast deadlines.

You know what.

Actually, I got to tell you it's television really helped me with my career.

Now.

I worked a live TV so the reality was that, you know, when that clock hit that time to go on, everything had to be perfect. So it was chaos before that, but at the end of the day, it always went on without a hitch.

And so you think that also played a role in your success as entrepreneur.

Oh absolutely.

I mean I worked with some of the biggest producers at that time, and you know, you couldn't make excuses if they wanted something. It wasn't oh well, how well how do I do that? It was figure it out? So I always tell people all the time, you know, the biggest mistake you can say that when someone asked you a.

Question is I don't know or I'm not sure, or give one of these, it's like figure it out, figure it out, or the best thing you can say is I'll get right back to you. Yeah.

Now, I learned that lesson. I was working with Nick Cannon, and one of the first hard lessons I learned was him having a conversation with like, you never come to me talking about you don't know, right, definitely don't come to me with no solutional options. And I remember just being really like like mortified, almost like I will never make this mistake.

Again because I don't know, we'll get you fired.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's never a good answer that striver in any industry, in any industry, Yeah, an industry. I just went in television, Yeah, yeah, anything entertainment. I feel like.

It's listen you hot to get it done. Yeah. So that that's where my training came from.

So it's kind of like, you just figure it out, and that's exactly what we did.

So how does a teacher from Atlantic City? And where are you from?

I was born in New York Long Island, But I was raised here in California, So I'm an l A girl.

I'm both How do you guys?

Ass?

Were you guys? Uh?

Yeah?

So so Wendy worked in I was in TV.

I'm sorry, Whendy you started to work in music?

Yeah?

I actually, yeah, I was. I had gone through a breakup.

Uh, and the best way to make sure it's over is to move three thousand miles away.

Hilarious. Was it one of those on and off relationships? Is that why you had tomor on.

And off since like to tenth grade? What I'm saying, so you've had to bounce? Yeah? It was no good.

Yeah, so that's hilarious. So we're still friends today, you know, just some people.

It's better that way, right.

But anyway, So I had an opportunity from just a guy I had known before that was looking for a He was looking for an assistant a little bit and and and so, and I just figured, you know what, let me get out of here, because you know, now all of my bills are all on me, and teaching alone just you just can't really do it. So I figured let me just give this a try. He said,

It was actually a Cheeva.

Sound and he managed de'angelo and Mark Bronson and a lot of really cool bands.

So it switched my life. I ended up going on tour a few times just as his assistant.

But his sister was at the desk next to me, and I didn't really know many people out here. She just kind of took me under her wing, took me to her big sister's house. She used to have barbecues all the time, and then we just kind of met and started talking about hair and things like that.

Wow, and you guys, are you're both mixed?

Yes? What are you mixed with? So my mother's black and my father's white.

Oh, you're like me. It's so rare to see that mix, that mix, right, it is.

But I swear because of my mom's ability to uh, you know, deal with the challenge of textured hair, she really taught me so many tricks and gifts and gave me a real knack for curls. My hair was easy compared to what she was used to, you know, working with her whole life. So she really made me appreciate the uh, you know, which products to use to make your hair easier to maintain. So because I had a mother with textured hair, I feel like it really really

Oh yeah, definitely had a white mom.

I had the white mom.

I'm so sorry.

I was like life was.

It was great because I learned how to do hair. Okay, I mean, at the end of the day, you have.

To learn how to do it, so I mean, come on.

My mom definitely didn't have the same hair texture, so she embraced all that I had and was happy to have, you know, a child that had different hair. So we were wild, right, we were running around like, you know, hair here and there. But I had black ants, so you know, it was like, come on, get down on this lap. You fall asleep because they're hitting you with the comba. They're braiding the hair, remember those. Yeah, but

Now did you guys that's so funny? Do you guys decide barnet? But do you guys notice any.

How?

Am I gonna word this safely? Say it safely? So I suld I grew up with a black a black mom and the white father. You grew up with the white mom and the black father, and both parents stayed together on both sets.

No, not mine. My my divorce when I was like twelve. Oh, okay, okay, and her parents are still married.

Yeah, we just celebrated their sixtieth wedding anniversary. They got married when they were in high school, Atlantic City High School, the same high school I was in.

Okay, Now, this is the question that's gonna be don't get So, when you grow up with the white mom, do you still feel I don't know how I'm gonna work black? Yes, it sounds crazy, but like you know, sometimes you meet some people with the with the say the mom's white, maybe they feel it's.

Settle more connected to her yeah, rather than the father. No, I don't think that's the case with anyone. I think the case comes from parenting. So it's about how your parents. You know, what they teach you, right, So growing up, my parents said, you're Kim.

End of story. You have a problem, come to me, that's it.

So I didn't have like I needed to connect. I connected better with her or with him. I grew up in Culver City, California, very very mixed environment. So I grew up in this condominium complex shout out to Tara Hill, That's where I'm from. And there were so many mixed kids, whether they had a black mom, white dad, black dad, Asian mom. I mean, there were a blend of many people. So we kind of just were all connected. I don't think we really had an identity issue growing up because

It was like, so who were you? What you're going to choose?

You know, you think this and you know that kind of stuff, and it was like, WHOA, what's going on here? Or you started to see some of the kids that you grew up with acting a little different, or you know, I think about in elementary school.

You have the crush on Brian or you know Ryan. Then you get to.

Junior high and it was Marcus and you know Jamal. Know, it started to change. But that's no, I didn't have that issue. My father's very strong presence in my life. He was, you know, the parent that would kind of dictated our life. I knew where my father came from. I knew the struggles that he had, the challenges that he had and still would face. Right, So I understood my history. I understood how the world saw him and

Yeah, definitely, Well I'm glad, I'm Loki Glad I asked that question, I would have thought that the response. I was expecting something different because.

I love too lemony, but that's all would be good. Put a little bit of the pepper Chile.

I'm not spicy enough, and I think that's gonna be fine. I love how you guys are.

You guys have been partners for such a long time, and you could it's it's really.

Everybody were sisters.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I don't I don't want from the mixed uff. I'm a mixed babe from the eighties. And going back to what you said I experienced, I saw racism for the first time around like nine after we moved to upstate New York. We went from Brooklyn. Never really questioned our race. Definitely the whiteside question like how would we identify? And that was like kind of scary for me, Like what do you mean?

How would I identify?

So I'm thinking that since you guys are a little older, that maybe you guys had it even harder because we didn't know that many mixed people.

Seventies I had found like yes, but.

To hear that, like even the home environment, I was thinking, maybe it's the just the overall environment, because even when I got to high school, it was like I couldn't like my homeboy, white boy Tom because his parents were absolutely gonna end that relationship because they didn't want us mixing with them. So it's different to hear. But I also like hearing, like in Long Island that your parents had a struggle, but then in Culver City it was different.

But I think it's about toleration too, right, And it's about what you're going to deal with. And I think when you have had such struggle and you move on, you say I'm not going to deal with that, and you have to make that change. It doesn't mean you're not going to experience anything, right, But that's where the foundation comes from, the foundation at home, of understanding who you are, understanding that, hey, everyone's not going to like you, so get off of that high horse, right. Don't think

And for me, like my parents, actually my father got disowned from marrying my black mother. That's why they rushed it and got married in high school so he could take off the Vietnam So you know, Atlantic City, that area is extremely segregated. So when I was young, we lived in the projects, and you know, it was like hard.

We had to fight a lot, just over just nonsense.

And then we ended up to get away from the violence, we moved to this all white neighborhood, the ones that the racist grandparents lived in, you know, and lived with all white kids for a long time.

And you know that I was called all kinds of names. But my dad taught us how to fight.

So there was a lot of you know, a lot of not going up had to happen, you know, and I didn't really want to. I feel like I would have been more of a love child. I know, I feel I naturally am, but you know, I always had to have my guard up. And then fortunately when a brown the sixth grade, my dad got he was in the military and he got stationed in Fort Carson, Colorado, and I lived on an army base for the first time with so many other mixed children.

It was like odd to not be mixed, kind of like what she experienced at Tara Hill.

And that to me was like the Christmas Special when the like when they make it to the Land of Misfits, and I really felt like that, like I really identified. But I love that Christmas Special. I watch it every year because that felt like me. So then when we went back to Atlantic City, instead of wanting to be like everybody else, I pitied them for their limited view because that's all they knew and I was believe in it too. But you have to you have to have

And you know, when you know better, you do better. A lot of them just don't know better.

Yeah, my mom definitely taught us to give grace. A lot of grace been dealing with racism, but I think it forced us to feel like if we're gonna have to choose a side, I guess we're gonna choose the side where what we've been called obviously the N word or you know, we're black, oh what have you. But it wasn't until like I was like thirty around thirty under thirty five and I realized Trevornoah had released a book Born a Crime. After I read that book, I

Some of those comedic drafts are really funny when they pick, when they pick which race they want the mixed person to be.

You know, that's who.

You've never snow. I've never seen people like no, no, no, you can have him. Yeah right, it's like a whole raft.

Yeah, like you are, like I think having a.

Like Spacey Dash. Yeah, they don't want her, they don't want her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I heard politics.

But but yeah, no, it was funny, but it's interesting.

It's ready to of you guys.

It looks delicious. I hope now I see why the parsley. Yeah, so whenever you're ready. So the so you guys are both mixed chicks. Are you starting to struggle with your hair? Because curly hair is one of those hairs. Well, I'm just speaking from experience where it's like you fall in love with a product and then all of so one day your hair is like, you know what, I love you, but uh, I'm used to this product. Switch teams or if you guys probably battle that. Sometimes we use the

So for us, you know what we are, our product and luckily for us, I don't switch products.

I've been using the same products forever.

There's been times that, like you go on vacation or maybe you didn't mean to, like you just thought you were like going for a day trip to the beach, but instead like you're like, oh, let's get a hotel here, and you stay overnight, and then you don't have your products. You trying to use something that the hotel has. You realize like, oh my gosh, like what would I do without it? Or you find something in the grocery store and that's not mixed chicks, and then you I'm really grateful that I have.

A hotel, a warehouse full. Yeah the hotel, that's a hotel.

So but but prior to that, when I talked about, you know, just my mother being able to teach me how to deal with textured hair, that wasn't the only well just mixing and matching products, you know, growing up we had to you know, the one aisle like it the only ethnic aisle was like dusty in the back corner and it had pink oil bo five and you know some some something that was like dark shoeshine for men to.

Slick their hair down. Like, no, they didn't have a lot of good stuff back there. Oh there you go, Murray's I remember.

Yeah, Oh I'm sorry because back then at one point, yes, yes, there was girl activating. Okay, So over the years I had mixed and matched so many things from both aisles that, you know, you had to master your own concoction because it just wasn't out there. You know, we were none of us were there creating products.

We were just.

Taking what they fed us instead of making something for us. So Kim and I were really surprised when we met and started sharing, you know, different secrets over the years of our concoctions.

And oh, you guys were already individually making your own concoction complete.

Anybody that met me would be like, oh my gosh, what are you using your hair? I say, do you have a pen and we'd write it down.

And then I started mixing and actually like give like, let me just pre mix it for you here.

Oh yeah no, and I just try a product and then like break up with the product until I found the product, which I never did. So mixed chicks, but you know I would. I never even thought of the genius idea of trying to blend because that style, right, you.

Want that look. My mom was a hairdresser too growing up, so it's not just that.

So you guys were swapping recipes at some point.

Yeah, I feel like I shared my kind of concoction. She shared some extra stuff about it. We went to a lab, we worked with a chemist, and we mastered our own concoction.

But before you went to the lab and started saying like we have something here, like can you talk more about like that pre experience right before Mixed.

Chicks, Like I said, I was what we were using, well not what you were using.

Like you guys were starting to hang out. So you're starting to hang out, You've become friends, and then are you guys like starting to complain about out the hair products?

Like hair.

We get on the boat together and it's like, look at this ship, right like look at my hair. You know, you're like look try this one, no, this one on this time, and you know, after a while, your hair and the what kind of day it's going to have?

Yeah? Is it? Well?

It consumes your day sometimes. Yeah, here's the thing. It was never consistent.

So every day, no matter what you used, what you blend, you know, all the different things. Some days you had a great day. Some days you just did it and you're like, what went wrong? And that was what the conversation was about. The conversation was like, God, your hair looks so good today. What did you use?

You know what I mean?

But you know, it wasn't every day thing for us, but it was a problem forever for us. But we were so accustomed to dealing with it it was normal.

And I was also an athlete in high school, so I the option of like wearing your hair straight was I mean, all the time you put into it and then you sweat it out. So I had to figure out out how to get washed and go curls. You had to because it was just a way of life.

So then tell me about like that first conversation where you go, let's kind of so I want to enjoy all of this. So that first conversation where you're like maybe we have something here or or what do you think about actually making this legit? Like who had that idea first? Or how did that happen?

I believe I had kind of the concoction that I would premix that was kind of like.

Something that I like just had.

I didn't just And it was for years this thing developed depending on what got discontinued and what didn't. This mix of ten different things in Kim and I's conversations. She was like, listen, let's go to the mall and watch, or let's go out. Watch how many people ask what we use in our hair?

Watch? Watch? Watch.

We couldn't get from three stores without somebody asking what do you use in her hair?

And she's like, listen, I got I know this girl. I know a lab. We can go there.

We're going to start our own thing at this point. At this point, I was I had like left the music industry and I was a gym teacher at North Hollywood High School. Okay, And she's like, girl, we're going to start our own thing. We're about to be rich. And I looked at her like she was crazy, because I'm thinking it had to have already been done. It had to have already been done, and as we did the research, it had not been done.

And no, was any part of you like looking at him like this girl's crazy? Where too, or where you like if anybody's gonna have this idea as Kim? And she you know, she didn't know me that well. I was friends with her sister. No, she didn't know me that well.

I think Wendy comes from a background of stability, right, like she to have a job, like you have health, everything right, and you know, I just come from more of you know, there's nothing you can't do right. So that's just the attitude. It was exciting. Our issue we realized was just not our issue. So maybe that's the problem. I mean, that's a bit of a problem with me, right, I trying to solve the problem. But it was like, okay, wait a minute, we've had consistent hair for these amount

We are.

So what did you think of her when she was just like, Okay, we're going to solve this problem.

I just thought it was.

I thought it was a hobby, not hot well for me, I mean for me, it was as a hobby just for me.

For me, it was like this. I thought it was kind of a California thing. I didn't think she was just crazy. I just thought, Wow, California really were just dreamers.

Not just dreamers.

Wow, they take chances because this is crazy, like to just to me, there's no way I could like probably sleep at night if I didn't have health insurance.

Isn't that crazy money?

So no, I think like more. But even like because you're you're in your twenties early or maybe early when.

We started we started how I was thirty.

One, okay, early thirties Okay, I'll be honest. Early until I had a kid, I didn't care about health insurance. Then I was like, well, I guess I need to stay healthy. You know, we need to stay healthy. But before kid, I didn't never thought about it. I'm definitely more entrepreneur set. But you could see the difference. You're saying, like I'm thinking about health insurance, You're like, do.

We really need it?

Right?

I'm guessing that's you're like, no, you know why? Maybe because I worked in television my whole life. We didn't have healthy shirts. I kind of said, we didn't have health inshurt. No, that's not I mean, it just simply was like it was exciting to be challenged to have something exciting. Imagine in life, like right now, we're all in our regular schedules, right every day.

What about having a do over? How exciting would that be? Right?

Yeah, yeah, because it's kind of our schedules are just repetitive, right, our life is monotonous. It was like, oh, this is something new, It's exciting and challenging, and I rise to a challenge.

So you were a gym teacher when Mixed Chicks is starting to formulate.

What were you in a basketball ref? I was rough from basketball on the side to.

Make money, okay, And what were you doing?

I was doing pr oh some athletes Okay.

Yeah.

I come out of TELL, I came out of TV and I was doing some PR.

So you were doing it. You were already kind of on the entrepreneur path. I was working for myself, okay. Okay, so now.

I was always kind of working for myself if you think about it. And then when you work in TV, yeah, you're part of the studio you're working for yourself.

So that's kind of been my life.

So we're gonna try this linguini right now before we get into the depths of mixed chicks.

Yeah, go ahead, Cam, Well, what's all the seasoning? You didn't use? No seasoning?

Him? Now that the cameras rolling talk your talk, miss.

I mean the lemon is good, you know what I mean. You thought it was too lemonade, but the lemon is good. I think it's good.

You know what I'm saying.

I mean, you know, I like there's a little kick from the little pepper. Yeah, okay, I just you know, spiced mine up a little bit. What would you have se do with you It was just a little listen, the fresh garlic is always the best. I probably would have just used just me a little bit of garlic powder, just a little extra, a little bit of lemon pepper.

But that's just me.

It's like I used the same seasonings and everything, even though you know, things taste different.

That's all so. But it's good.

It tastes great, and it's very flavorful, just like flavor, which is fine.

I think you used too much lemon.

No, I think the lemon is perfect and I added parmesan cheese to mic.

Yeah, I think it's good. So it's really good.

The little clams makes me feel like this ain't a broken dish.

I feel like when you chop up fresh ingredients, it never tastes broke to me.

Mm hmm because of the cooking process. Right. Yeah, it's almost like it's your chef.

It's almost the clam broth and all those things just saw tan for a little while, almost create a little root in a sense.

Yeah. And for the listeners at home, definitely ten out of ten. This dish is high rated and bang for buck. Definitely bang for buck, and I do I will say that I would have never thought to saute the garlic, the butter and the clams prior to, like, in a separate pan. So if you guys are making it at home, use the separate use a separate pan.

So brilliant.

Yeah, every dish I usually cook, I'm sure Whendy probably does too.

I always saute my.

Onions, my garlic, you know, whether it's olive oil or butter in the beginning, just to get that, you know, base, and then add whatever you're cooking.

So you did olive oil and butter together.

I did, but you don't have to. I think she did. I probably put you know, a table.

This is delicious because I guarantee you all of us are going to finish this plate.

It's delicious, delicious, delicious delicious.

So when you guys first came out, I have a basket full of products. When you first came out, well, when I I'm a fan of your guys, it was conditioner and shampoo. At some point, you guys are like, let's go to a lab. Tell me about those first steps. Did you were you just making it up as you went along or were you trying to find mentors in the space? How did it go?

You know, we didn't even We just went for it.

We started out by like like I said, Kim secured the lab. We went there with an ingredient deck, right, so we had to look at the combination of products that we did. You mix and match like those ten A lot of them had common ingredients. But you have to come up with you make your potion, and then you have to have an ingredient deck when you go to a chemist so that they can begin the process of creating what you want.

And then they is the proper raw material.

Raw materials and then you make notes and then you go like round two, round three, until you get exactly the formula that you want.

So you would like you would after they mix it, you would come home and test it.

Yes, so based on our notes, so then we fortunately, I mean, it's interesting because if it was just a couple of years prior, we would have had to go to the library to look up the ingredients. But it was like the very beginning kind of internet, Internet and searches, so we could search all of these key ingredients and actually learn their functions, learn about what was good for you, what was bad for you, what might be the hardening product.

So you guys had to know that, not the chemistry.

Well, we had to learn it to give proper notes. We're not somebody who private labels. A lot of some brands would like get a formula it's already done and put.

Their name on it.

Right where we really really wanted to create it to our scific needs.

Well, if you look at the back of.

Products, well not today, because people don't put their real ingredients. That's a big problem on labelsities.

You look at the products. First of all, the first four or five six are the same.

Ingredients on most products, whether it's your shampoo, your conditioner. Okay, now people are just putting essential oils in the beginning. Impossible that the products full of us central oils.

You have to have water, you know, you.

Have to have you know, all kinds of stabilizers right in your product.

You have to have a preservative in your product if you're going to sit on the shelf.

But when we started, we started to recognize that most of the products, whether we had ten products, the first.

Five may be the same, right.

And then you start to see the added ingredients, right, the suffactants or the conditioning agents or you know what you know takes away the static in the product. Right, So you start seeing all of those different things. When you start, we were able to Google, thank god, because Google had come into play. You could say, okay, well this is what this is saying. Maybe that's not great for me. You know what happens if we take that out. Is it necessary to have that? That's what a chemist does, right,

Yeah, so a lot of the.

Things that you know, products started out as they're not the same now because you know people started or you know the products ATRETT getting regulated, right, I was going to say the FDA Prop sixty five, moke RA, all of these different regulatory agencies.

So when you're dealing with so after you get the product, you get the potion that you want, then you have to still get it cleared through the FDA and all those other guys or how does that process?

Like? Well, regulation is pretty serious now, right, Like depending on where you're selling. If you're selling in Europe, you have to be EU compliant. They have different rules and throughout Europe, so it's a whole different testing there here in California where we are. Prop sixty five is a real thing. I don't know if you've ever heard of that.

You know, these are all like Prop sixty five warnings.

If anything has anything that can potentially cause cancer, you have to like warrant it.

Yeah, even if it doesn't prove it, put it on the.

Have the food they sell the you know, you know, and that's different. Food is different.

It's food different because I feel like a lot of the food food is different.

Maybe in and food is different. Food labeling is different. I think there's ways can get around it. And a lot of in food everywhere, but not not as much now because you have these ambulance chasing attorneys that are just pulling every single product and uh, you know, reading their labels or testing their products.

And they like to go after the small.

Guys because you know, the big guys like the Procter and Gambles, the Loreals, they all have a legal team that can fight.

And there are things like sometimes like you know, we're like, our lab is ordering you know, our raw materials, right, So if they get the fragrance, if they source it somewhere and they get the safety data sheet, we believe that safety data sheet right, whatever's in that fragrance, and

So we've been pretty safe.

But a lot of brands I feel for when I see them getting taken down because of the big brands, they have that same thing in it, but they won't sue them because that's what they got.

Do you think.

The big brands feel a little threatened by some of the smaller brands and then they just I hate to say it, but like take them out because I mean you'd be like, hey.

Of course it's such and such, Yes, well, because this all our brands are the entrepreneurs. They're the women, right, They're like the brands that began for a reason. They weren't just trying to capitalize on the consumer and make money. Everything was from the heart. So I think maybe there's just that.

They're not the what's the word I'm looking for.

I don't want to say authentic, But they're not the creator, do you know what I mean? So they're not the creative force behind it. And I mean there's the difference between entrepreneurs and the big boys.

Yeah, and the big boys like I hate to use their actual names, but like I would imagine like a Procter and Gamble type are the big boys, right or whoever owns like the Murray's and the TCBs back in the day, they were a lot of us now too, the big guys, And they.

Call it now like we are a black owned company and certified Black female owned and certified.

That used to really mean something.

The big boys have interchanged it with black founded, so they use a black face there and they just say it's black founded, and we end up believing that it's black owned and it's not. And that's a lot of major brands that are out there that we all support.

I believe that because I, uh, I tried. My daughter's hair is a little bit curlier than mine, so I always dibble and dabble, and her hair is like fine, but curlier, So you know, I'll test different things. But I remember one time I got a product I probably was black founded, but definitely I could just tell immediately, well, I just told I was like to say, this is probably like a white brand or some big company day, Yeah,

Well, you know, it used to be a big issue when we began. I mean there were probably eight brands. We were all different, we all serviced, you know, something. If something didn't work for you, someone else's product did. And that was the beauty of the brands at that time. Right, everything's not for everybody, but there was a choice. Yeah,

About the consumer. Who is our consumer?

So when we all began at that time, it was a hot thing, right. We were all online. We were selling online. We weren't in retail stores. And actually Richelieu Dennis, who owned Shaye Moisture at the time, he was the first to go into mass retail.

So is he black or wise?

He's black?

Just want to make sure. Yeah, okay, because people think who's a baby sweet baby rais they'd be.

Like, that's black ome and barbecue sauce.

Yeah, oh yeah, we can get your black owned barbecue sauce.

Buying Bobby Brown foods okay, just giving that.

Little Bobby Brown shout out, yes, thank you.

So.

But you know, so.

When rich you know started, I mean, and we always laughed, but this is the way we used to sell products, Like we were selling records out of the trunk of our car.

I mean, that's just how we were pushing it. We were pushing so you guys would show up to like games and be like here we.

Had these little jill packs, right, there were our samples. We they're called pillow packs. But what was our nickname? Hot Somali's so like creamy crack, creamy crack, liquid gold everything, let's name it.

But but we were pushing them. I mean we were pushing them like here, try this, try this.

You know everywhere there's always had a box in a car. I love it, like wait, wait wait sometimes and.

Then at this point you were just selling online, yes, and you were pushing these out of your pushing and like samples or were you actually trying to sell.

We were the real dealers, baby, I love it. Okay, we were. We were the pusha okay for like for real.

But but when we started and I was just saying, when he came into retail, well, there were only like five people that went on the first wave, right, and these were all brands founded run by owned by black individuals, women and men.

So it was great because we were all online.

So our price points were you know, wherever we saw fit.

I mean it wasn't like we knew the rules.

We made up the rules, right, and it was really based on like the cost of our goods. Or you know, just what we thought our products were worth. It was fine, we made good money, it was great. Everyone was for it. But once we went into mass retail, there were things that we didn't know we should have considered, like what like you can get on the shelf, but they're going to charge you a slotting fee, or you know, your returns can take you out of being on that shelf.

Another common practice in mass retail is like like she said about they're charging you for the door, right, So say there's a new line review and we want to add.

A product to the products that are up on the shelves.

Now, when we were younger, and they said, oh great, we're going to put you in all of the doors right away. Right, you get excited and you let them put you in five thousand doors.

Yeah, if you don't have the.

Promotions and the people to support that, in six months, they're going to go, we're shrinking you down to two thousand doors. You owe them, and then they put your product for twenty five percent off, then half off, and then clearance, and you owe them every dime. They didn't make the heck every time, So when you get shrunken on a shelf, you're fucked through.

Oh yes, say it loud. Yeah. But wait, so, like you get this phone call and you're like, oh my god, we phone call.

An email?

You get an email? But are you now at this point are you reaching out to them or they reaching out to You're having a meeting like with the distributor, okay, and then you get really excited a I got five thousand retails.

Of course it's exciting.

Now at that point if you don't have the bank world to help promote well. And I have the two questions when you start out. Are they because I learned, especially since having a kid, that product placement in stores they are very genius by putting the candy in the checkout section that right, But like as I got older, I started realizing like where you shelf place and where

And it depends on who you are and when you begin.

Now, I'll be honest, when we started, when we went into retail with the rest of the group, like we went a year after we all had prime real estate, we were all right there for everyone to see because there was a demand. We were original, we were genuine, we were authentic, and the consumer wanted our product.

You start to lose that space.

When the big boys realize, wow, there's money to be made here.

And they're able to pay for that space.

They either pay for the space.

That was how they first came in, but more recently, now that this world is so trendy due to social media and people's like just love of famous people, the big boy now will get a famous space or that social media the person with all the followers just can say I'm actually going to launch a brand now, and because of that following, a mass retailer might give them prime space with no experience because they understand how much promotion that is for their store.

Jesus, social media is running thing. Ell gets king, it's everything. And listen, we're a twenty one year old brand, right, so you know we need to pivot and of course still running a band you have to pivot.

But we're some old broads. We're not doing all of that.

Meaning I'm not going on social media, you know, acting like I'm living the.

Goods you guys are.

You guys are like a more legendary brand at this point, Like you guys call a legacy brand. Yeah, a legacy I would say, a legacy brand, so you don't have to do as much.

We have to do a lot.

You still do, like it's day one, Are you serious?

Still is not the same?

Really?

Social media? It's just it's not. It doesn't. It doesn't.

The quality of the product is not where the sale comes from.

It comes from the trend.

Yeah, yeah, I can see that.

So it's just yeah, times are different for everybody, right. I think a lot of consumers shop based on their pocketbook, you know, so sometimes okay, it's just okay, you know, instead of it has to be perfect or the best.

I one hundred percent agree with you, though, because I don't I don't know how to do that. Delicately Mixed Chicks is a legacy brand, I do see. Like when say, uh, I'm gonna say this delicately, like a Tracy Ellis Ross becomes a face of a brand, right, everyone's talking about it, but they're only talking about it because it's a face of brand. I'm not gonna totally slamm her. I did test the product, didn't like the product, you know.

Not hating on a product, you.

Know, Yeah, but like, but you get what I'm saying. Like, I bought it because of course everyone jumped on the brand because it was you know, you see this girl this she looks like us, right, she's famous, so we went in, we bought the product.

Funny, she's cool, she's cool.

Definitely, don't hate her. But I'll try. My whole thing is I'll try everything at least once. Of course i'll try. If you guys gave me some absolutely ridiculous, I'll be like, but I'll try it. So I do see how a lot of my peers were like, oh, she has this line, let's go try it. And it is trendy to be like the person that's trying the new Kylie. You have

Our loyal customers or like and you know in our wheel, which is beautiful and we're so grateful for them. I just there was one other part that I left out of mass retail, just to shift also to the convenience of shopping online and Amazon. The stores are suffering on the shelf level, right, so their ask from us is more than it used to be. They want us to give them more promos, which we have to pay all promos. They take it out of the invoice that they're about

We get we're getting asked now.

Like the shrinkage of the stores is overwhelming, just missing product and they'd like to take that out of our invoice too. So the negotiations have gotten pretty like.

Steep, that's all.

It's just are you guys are now if you're a brand, are you able to like call them up and haggle it out.

It depends on who the buyer is. No, some buyers are more accessible.

Now we're still paying, you still pay, still pay, you still pay.

No, it's just a different world.

Are you guys more thankful now that the shift is going back online? Now? Because then or is like retailers like Amazon charging like crazy amounts. Now.

We started as an online yeah business, right, so we began to pivot about six years ago back online. So online's been great for us. But again, you have an Amazon. Luckily we have presents there, we're selling there. I mean, I think the consumer is about convenience and if they can go to Amazon and they can find all of our products that they can't find at a store, that's what they're going to do. And we're grateful for that, you know. But it is a different time. Nothing lasts forever. Okay,

It's been a good run. At the end of the day, it's a good feet.

You can look at tons of brands and listen, God bless everyone who got in and got out. Right, they got in, they got out. We're still in it. But we went to twenty one years. We're at twenty one years. People didn't go past ten years. Yeah, so you know, hard work, determination, perseverance. You know, we're still standing. But it's a different day.

And then how when you twenty one years in the game, you have to be the best pivoter because a lot has happened in twenty one years. You know, print faded, digital came in stores. Were now we're just running in circles. But are you guys? Are you guys now like almost like foreseeing the storm before it comes. Are you guys in that phase of life? Are the story is hit?

The storm is hit. We're in the hurricane baby, So no, no, because fema.

But you're hilarious at the same time, you know, like in our fifties, so you know you're once your priorities they shift. We have teenage girls, we have twenty kids in their twenties, so it's like you know, and then health changes, menopause hits, and just priorities kind of shift and what you're grateful for it shifts. So even though there's a storm, and you know, at the same time, I'm learning to be more grateful about things outside of that.

Just whether you wake up without a.

Pain that day, or to have healthy parents, you know, or to just see your kids smiling and just laughing for a bit. I'm trying to find more joy in that so that you can have like authentic power and move through any storm.

It's work, but that's where my head has been. Yeah.

Well, I mean for me, I'm a single mom, so the work doesn't stop me.

I just became a single mom. Yeah, it doesn't tell start for me.

Yeah, So even though there's a shift, I dig in deeper because I'm the sole provider.

So you know what I mean. Time have changed.

Life is lifing, but I mean, thank god I'm still here and I'm still going to press on into the Fat Lady sings.

Yeah, and that's really what it's about about.

I'm curious what is a day in the life of you guys, and what responsibilities? How do you guys? Who handles what? In the company? You could start with We used to kind of do it all you like swap.

It was like we.

Wore eight hats each and everything kind of interchange. I finished her sentence, she started that job, finished my job, whatever it was. But as we've kind of moved on, we've kind of kind of fell into.

The spots that we're best at.

But at this point, we like we have discussions where, you know, sometimes the balance isn't fair over the years.

And it takes it.

You know, it's you have to really be a partner and they're going to figure out how to get through that. Currently, Kim does a lot of sales and would like me to do more sales.

I do a lot of I love that you're really really saying this right now.

Yeah, I like that. Let's keep it real.

Okay, so that's really real, kah.

But I really enjoy math and I manage all of the inventory, like that's man going and trying to make sure that we don't went out of things, and that's like a constant thing. And also there's a whole lot of things there. That's a full time job. But you know, we all wear our hats and we got to sit down and hash it.

Out to keep it or make it fair. But you know, we've been.

Doing it for twenty one years and I don't have any doubt that we won't figure it out.

You guys will continue to grow, definitely. It doesn't surprise me that Kim would be responsible for sales because usually is the entrepreneurial one. You're like constantly hustling receivables too.

Yeah, I need to see where our money's going everything, every bill that comes in.

Yeah, I'm thinking of It makes sense though, even like looking at how you guys lined up originally to see that that's how the workload is kind of like you're more into this section. It actually lines up all the way down to your guys beginning roots, like even with you, like where's the money going? Like you're more the stability kind of one, and.

Well, god forbid the ground shakes. She's freaking out.

I love you.

Yeah, She's like I'm running, I got a hold on you know whatever, and I and then she's all.

Casual, like we'll get this. We got there last week, right, Yeah, we'll be fine.

It's week to week. It's week to week at the end of the day. I love it.

Twenty one years later and you're still saying this now. When you guys branch into these different products, can you just talk just a little bit about like what that process looks like and whether or not it's an extreme headache and risky when you do that, because you have your your main staples and then you have well.

I mean, our leavens are staple.

It's still our number one selling product, right and obviously we moved on to shampoo condition from customer demand. But as Wendy we were talking about retail earlier. You know, they always want something new, right, Like, we didn't come from that, Like we came on a stable ground that Hey it works, we.

Solved the problem.

Yeah, this problem yet, right, we thought.

That's what it was. We forgot.

Oh my god, we're never satisfied, right, women were never satisfied.

We always want something new.

Or when you buy those great shoes, oh yeah, those shoes are the bomb. Right, but guess what we do want another pair of shoes. But where are we going to get the shoes from? Well, I love that brand. So if they have a different type of shoe, because I know they're dependable, I know that, you know, I can rock them for this amount of time and they're great or they're comfortable, I'm going to go back to them. So we had to start thinking that way. It wasn't

And that's something we never have been like.

So when you're running a race, right, you don't look back, you don't look to the side. You have to keep looking forward. So we had to start blocking that out. And I don't really think we ever copied. We just listened to we need something else from you, We want a collection from you. But the problem is when you start making things because they're asking. If they don't take it, then you're stuck with the product.

Right, So we.

Had to we had to go to aciety.

We had to go back to.

Making what we know our consumer would look for. We knew we had our online outlet. We knew there were online outlets for our consumer to find the product. So we just have to keep running it that way. We didn't keep up with the stores, so I think people would say, oh, well, you know they didn't turn over a new product every year, But why would we were not going to like, we can't how many people have you know?

Well, when we started.

No one how to leave in conditioner only we had to leave in condition We all know it's makes case.

We need any conditions right.

Now there's fifty five leave in conditioners. You know, we had a deep conditioner. Everyone had a conditioner. We had a deep conditioner. Now everyone has a deep conditioner. So what happens is they start saying, oh, there's too many leaving conditioners, there's too many deep conditioners.

So we just try to make products that we know.

We need that our consumer says, oh, I love this, you know, you know, would you guys think about making something like that? And most times these are people have been loyal to us for so long. It's nice to listen to their wants and their desires, especially when they want to stay within the brand. And that's what we try to do. Again, how many shampoos and conditioners can you make? I mean, it just becomes that you're not

And then is there this is the question that's probably gonna have you guys thinking for a second, but was there it in the whole twenty one year span, was there ever a real pivot moment where you guys were like, that's it, I'm done. What was that moment and what was the thing that got you over the hump?

I'm done, I'm done.

I don't think you guy's never had the I'm done moment.

I have it.

Oh it's high we want because my cash flows tighter over But you guys never had that moment of.

Like, oh, I just like, I mean, there's frustration constantly and anxiety like you said, but it's not I'm done.

Well obviously twenty one years, but I'm saying, was there ever a point of that, like I can't do you know?

I think I think there are times when we could say we were overlooked several times in different areas, right, Like we weren't the choice intentionally, right, that's frustrating.

When you mean from from hulo name it.

I mean whether it's a distributor, whether it's a retailer. I'm just saying there's a time sometimes their favorites, right, and we could say, wow, we've been selling that product for about four years and now they're taking that from these people, like, what's the deal, right, I mean, we went through all of that, but you can't be a cry baby, you can't whine over it. You just have to move on and do something else.

And sometimes in the ethnic aisle mix the name mixed chicks isn't black enough, right, and we get a little heat on that. We did more so years ago. But now that everybody's understands they're a mixed chick and this whole world in section is multicultural, it's different. But in the beginning, when we really needed, you know, to be somebody's favorite, to have to challenge all the time.

Yeah, something like that.

But it's crazy because it's also kind of what set you apart for that lane of people, because I remember going through the products and you know, you either had your black you had a certain koili here, you know. Even like I'm not gonna mention name brands because I want to focus on mixed chicks. But yeah, at that time when mixed Chicks came out, I love that you guys carved out that lane. Was like this is what we handled, this is you know, And we grew.

Up in a time where when we were checking a box, we had to check one, yeah, right, and not.

And they don't don't click it because back in the day, if you check both, they would.

Unple You know, you can they put you to the side at school, excuse me, So you can only be one?

And then you know what one that had to be? Of course I said, you know what one that had to be.

When you have a mouthy child, you're saying why you know, But that's what it was.

But I think.

We have to be very proud that when we did come out, regardless of the static, regardless of our bottle saying whether you're black, White, Asian, Latin, Mediterranean, or any glorious combination, we told the consumer who we were. I let it from the beginning. There's no guessing, right, Well, what does that mean?

Mix?

What are you talking about? Read the bottle? That's what we all did leave out Native. We did leave out Native America or Pacific ISLANDERFIC Island.

Okay, listen to our customer. Yes, yes we left all of that out.

But it's for everyone, right, And I think we truly have always from day one been multicultural. We paid that lane that is now multicultural.

And now it's kind of Now do you feel like the market's oversaturated because sometimes I feel like that when I walk into a store, I'm like, now, like I said, now I'm buying products that I'm like, eah, you ain't. This is just a label just to get me to buy.

But you know what, there's there's the pros and the cons of that, right, because let's really think about for all of the decades that we didn't have a choice. Think about it, for all of the decades that no one was focusing on products for us. So that is a beautiful thing, right, Yeah, it is a beautiful thing. It's just not beautiful when you're not telling a real story.

That's great. We can all respect that, but don't don't tell our story.

You don't tell the story about how you were mixing it in your kitchen and selling it out of your garage.

Now, but you can always tell the difference right away from you and story and that you know. Yeah, but thank you guys so much for feeding me, broke this and taking time out. Oh matchack, you guys, isn't it tell me a day in the life? Love you guys right now, Like what's a day in the life. I desperately want to know, Like when you like, what's the average day in the life of you guys?

Oh wow, it depends like okay, so oh our lives are COVID has changed them and given us a little more time prior to that, like a day in the life was I mean literally like every at least once a month, or if at least once a month, we were packing up to go somewhere in the country to do a trade show, which meant we are packing pallettes, taping them up, ourselves, getting there, unloading one thousand pounds

Ah, it was like that. It was fun.

It was like you guys started without having any children. My daughter, Yeah, I have a twenty five year old.

So you had.

Okay, so you had, but you had a young kid.

I did. Oh you were yeah child.

Dang, that's crazy because you guys became well, you became a mom. You were absolutely my mom the whole time.

And the baby okay, yeah, we had we had late babies.

Hers was forty. What what did you have your last one? We don't have.

We don't have to say the world.

Okay, but.

You guys were entrepreneurs. I'm here traveling.

Yeah, yes, baby, yes, yeah, it was. It was a lot. Today now at least we can do those zooms.

Trade shows are picking back up again, you know though they have so you know we.

So you have to like form like a little village to like kind of manage. So you're like managing mom and managing Yeah, we have a village.

I do have a husband that you know, does a lot of the driving, right because my daughter is an athlete too, so there's a whole lot of driving to practices in school and all that. I mean, it's practice or games or tournaments like crazy. So today I'm doing more of that driving. I'm helping more with her. I'm intentionally she's about to turn sixteen. I'm intentionally making my mind open and present for all that's coming.

Uh, you know, in addition to running, in.

Addition to running the brand.

But at the same time, you have to stay healthy and you have to prioritize your health right, mental too, And sometimes it changes your time your work timing or where you work from. We work home from a lot more we work from home. We all have like a little home computer. I can log in and do things so that we can be present in our homes where before we were at the office from morning until after everybody left, and it was every day. So you know,

Kim is the same for you, you know, No, it's for me. It's mixed chicks all the time. Okay, just for me. I mean, of course, I'm a mother. My kids are a priority. So yes, more of my time. My twelve year olds in gymnastics, so you know she has more activities, right, She's a little more of a social a butterfly than my older daughter.

But you know, they're at different stages of their life.

I I've always been present for them, spending more time, of course.

But you know, I'm up in the morning.

I'm on the computer at home, so I can you know, dive into my I can connect to my computer in my office if I need anything. So I'm kind of up in the morning. I'm still going. It's it's still like, you know, like day one for me. Even though you know, life is different, right, It's not as much travel, you know, the accounts are not the same. You know, life's different, but the brain doesn't shut off. It's constant. It's this is my livelihood until I move on to something else.

Yes, And so my life, at what point did you guys give up the day jobs? How early into mix ships did you get? Were you guys able to give up any type of day job just to go one hundred percent?

It was at least two years before. I think I gave up my day job first. But also it was you know, for what two hundred and fifty dollars a week.

Because we're not making any money.

Yeah, but I, like I said, I have my husband, right, so I didn't have to worry as much about rent where she was a single mom.

And then how long did it take you?

Two thousand and seven, so it was like three years? Okay, yep, freaking gangsters. Yeah you have to We always say that, don't quit your day job.

I mean until yeah, until it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, awesome. There was one question I had that was, oh no, I forgot it. Damn I'm gonna remember when I'm driving later.

You're gonna be like, oh.

I know, Oh, I have a girlfriend that I do work with. And we had to come up with it very early on that, like when we get on the phone with each other, we have to say is it friendship or is it work? How do you guys handle that dynamic? Do you have that similar thing where it's like I'm calling the complain about the hubby're the kids? I don't know. You guys have been friends for so long, I mean partners for so long that I would imagine

And we're more work partners than really friends.

I mean we we like the same we have some of the same friends, so we end up at a lot of the same stuff. And her family really is like my family here, so it's more like sister work.

Okay, we don't. We don't. May work in a while, mess with each other on the weekends.

Yeah, we have two different lives and it's not disrespectful. Make sure it's not that you know, we're at work and I am work all the time, and it's just kind of like the weekends are our time.

But our daughters love each other.

Yeah, so you know, we try to, you know, because they traveled with us so much together, so they feel like cousins. So we make sure that they get time together.

You know.

I was just genuinely curious because it's very rare. You see, like a great partnership lasts as long as you guys have.

And if we're traveling, right, we're traveling for business, but we have a good time because we're traveling and we enjoy but like during the week it's strictly business. If there's a break and someone has something to talk about, we talked about it.

But I mean as soon as that's over, it's like bye bye. We don't it's okay, we don't even hug each other. Yeah, we hug other people, but we don't talk to you guys are like yeah, yeah, okay.

So you guys have been in a relationship for a very long time, and this.

Is just the longest relationship of my life. So it's hard for me. No, it's hard for me honestly because I get frustrated or there's things I don't want I'm not going to deal with, and I'm in a relationship, so it's hard, you know what I mean. Otherwise I'm like I'm out, Okay, Yeah, I don't stay committed.

What advice what advice would you give to an entrepreneur, any entrepreneur doesn't mean this line of work, But what advice would you give to entrepreneurs trying to get into a legacy business position? And what advice would you give in regards to maintaining a healthy partnership. You don't even say that legacy thing is really a thing anymore.

I'll be honest. Today, social media, just life itself. Everything is momentary. It's a moment. No one's really in for the long run. They're in to get in and get out.

You're talking about like the businesses that start business trying to you know, cash out in five years. I'm talking about talking to the entrepreneurs that do want to build a like myself. I want eating while broke to have this legacy of like inspiring people. I would like the brand to maintain longevity. Definitely don't want to be in and out. No, that's good advice.

I would say, I don't run across that anymore.

I don't.

It just seems that's not where everyone is now. I mean, I just think life's changing, everyone's kind of doing something different. I mean, could you imagine influencers people. I'm just saying, people that can talk about something, whether it's a product, a restaurant, a car, that they could make more money than a doctor. They could make more money than a lawyer. And they don't have a degree in that area. They're not a professional, and no disrespect it is a business.

The professional. People don't even consult.

A professionally more, which is sad to me because the professional, you know, they're responsible for your hair. And I think again, as brand owners, we sell a product, right, so what's on that label? We're selling a product. It's the consumer's job to find out and research their hair. Doesn't mean that product's going to work for them, but it would be great if they consulted a professional to learn about their hair. That way, they can make a wise decision when they're buying a product.

You know what I mean.

Yeah, but consumer has responsibility, but unfortunately it doesn't seem that way. So I was just saying, you know, everyone's kind of I don't know, everything's up for grabs. That's just how I see things nowadays. People are just kind of in and out legacy. For you, that's because what you're doing is from the heart. It's about nurturing, it's about guiding, about giving right, and.

We just don't have a lot of people like that anymore.

So for you, I would say, stay authentic, do not say very, compromise yourself right, you speak from the heart. Give what you know is to be real. Whether someone likes it or not, it is what it is. That way, you can lay your head on your pillow knowing that you told the truth and you had.

No malicious intent.

If someone was hurt, but you saw something that they couldn't see, and later in life they'll appreciate that from you. And that's your that's what you're providing, that's your community service.

That's really good advice.

Yeah, I can't tell that yeah, that's mine too, and keep your family close like yeah, absolutely, yeah, thank you guys, And.

Did we missed the same? What was the second question I asked?

I know, we asked a day in the life. I told you what it was. It's busy, it's busy. It's a lot like advice. Yes, I didn't want emails the best advice to keep this partnership strong. Do you think there is a secret ingredient that makes your guys partnership strong.

We always used to say you have to like the person, you know what I mean? I mean, I think that's like in any relationship. I rather like someone than love them, right, because you can love someone and hate them to death. Right, Yes, you have to like them, you know. But you know everyone, you know, everyone thinks, Oh you have to think the same. You have to be the same, you know. Now, everyone

I don't know how do you make it work.

I think what you just said too really hones into you, guys, Like just sitting with you both you guys definitely like own who you are individually and then own who you got who you guys are to each other individually.

Very well, oh thank you. Yeah, well we're not We're never going to destroy each other.

Yeah, but I'm saying, like, you know, it's almost like you know exactly what who and how Kim works. You know exactly how Wendy works like.

And maybe that's the partnership when knowing when to give that person the ropes and when to back up when you move forward, because sometimes you know there are times and maybe you do want to be as strong and you realize this isn't the moment, right, So I think maybe just a little U what is.

It a grace push and pull or and like over love.

I think that's true. I one hundred percent think it's true because I do feel like too, if you don't like the person as much, you may push that boundary because it's like I love them.

But you know, well, I mean, even if you know there's you know, maybe for not in full agreement, there's a difference of being with someone who is malicious, right, or someone intentionally trying to push someone over Like you said, I mean, we don't have any of that evil in our heart.

Whether we're frush for each other.

Yeah, yeah, you know it.

I mean I'm just saying, yeah, I mean doesn't I mean we could be to the you know, tenth power of frustrated. But I mean, no one would want something bad to happen to the other or set them up for something bad.

Do you know what I mean? Because you hear about that with people. I mean, I mean, I was just.

Talking to my dad about this. I said, you know, you got to be able to choose. Like I've learned in time, you have friends that are rooting for your happy when you're up, and then you have friends that are rooting for you when you're down. And then you have the friend that can do both, that's happy when you're up and there for you when you're down. I have gotten to the point where I put everyone in their in their space. Okay, you're down for me, but

But you have to call it out.

Well, I don't. I don't know if I'm necessarily to people.

I have tried to tell people, but.

You know, then you're living with that. But no, what I do is I put them in a circle, so I'll be like, okay, the up, the up and downers are in the close circle, whether you're family or not. You know, I know that circle. That's that's a that's one hundred percent yes, positive and negative. That's my first circle. Then the people that are like, I'm down for you when you're down, that's the second. The people that are down for me only when I'm up, that's the third.

So that's not that's smart that is smart.

I yeah, because it hurts when you're when you expect something and get let down, you know, so to.

To that's kind of hard.

Expectations is a huge part of succeeding in life.

Yeah, well, thank you guys for coming out into the main camera. How can we keep up with you? Can you tell us how many cities countries you're in, what retailers are in, the different products you're in. Just please tell us everything amazing about Mixed Chicks into that camera and how to.

Keep up with y'all. Of course, oh well, of course.

You can find every single product of Mixed Chicks at mixed chicks dot net or mix chicks dot com. You can follow us on social on Instagram at mixed Chicks Hair, on Twitter at Mixed Chicks Hair.

Facebook of Mixed Chicks.

You can also find our products obviously on most online platforms like Amazon. You can find us in Target Alta Coals. You can find us at Walgreen, CBS, write A, you can find us at some specialty stores you know that don't promote, but you'll find us if you have a little treasure hunt. You'll find us in probably in about thirty different countries. But if you need to find anything from us, just go along to mix chicks dot net.

Mix chicks dot net you heard it here first. Thank you so much for your time in feeding me a delicious meal, which I will finish because it was that good. Thanks y'all for listening.

Peace out,