LEMUEL PLUMMER - PB&J!

simple right now. He has laid out for us some peanut butter and jelly, which we are all familiar with, so I figured since it's peanut butter and jelly, we both can probably make our own sandwiches while you dish the goods on your come up story where should I say your journey? And I'm I'm guessing had a lot of pivots and oh yeah, you know I've gone through a lot. But yes, this is this was my go to food, right, peanut butter and jelly, uh Ramen noodles.

But I'm more of a sweet guy, so I like the jelly and the peanut butter mixed, you know, and not the white bread. And you're a creamy I'm chunky for everybody that us to know what we're eating. And then uh, let me all decided he was gonna go with grape, and I don't discriminate on as long as it's sweet. I can do syrup to syrup. Is that's really like a real goal too. I should have had

peanut butter in syrup. Have you bread? I've never had that, and I would have been thoroughly impressed with peanut butter and syrup. He would have really really Yeah, that's well. We could go in the bag and get some syrup. No, no, we could stick with the jelly, the jam, whatever we get. Okay, so you grab your slices, I'll grab mine. Uh so bad. It's kind of hard. Is it the best bread there is? Oh it is? It's okay, Yes, here we got the

production bread. So peanut butter first, peanut. Let's let's go on your way to creating the Zeus network. Obviously it wasn't an overnight journey. Can you tell us where it started? You know? Uh, yeah, I'm moved out. I'm moved to l a probably man back in I think I was out here, but I can like oh seven, you know, and uh, I was very fortunate to Land a job as a p A working for a show called Extreme Makeover Home Edition, and uh, it was it was interesting experience.

So you know, I enjoyed myself. I learned a lot on the production um and so you know, but prior to that, my parents owned like TV networks, so I kind of you know, I grew up in the business. That was very fortunate and blessed to like learn a lot of things that happened behind the scenes and so, um, when I moved out here, you know, being a p A was was different. It was just completely different for me. But you did start as a you didn't start as a p A on their networks, No, no, No. I

was fourteen, like twelve. I was like, you know, I was shooting, I was editing, I was doing pretty much, you know, whatever I wanted to do. You know. It gave me that opportunity to to to just learn about every aspect of production. So it was it was great. But the thing about my parents network, even though it was it was successful, you know, it was it was

a situation thinking. It was a situation where I wanted to move out to l A to you know, do a little bit more commercial you know work and do more mainstream type of productions because their productions were primarily religious. It was religious, but it was also local networks, which is great. But you know, moving to Hollywood, I felt

like would be a completely different experience. And so, you know, growing up in Michigan, just the the the whole culture there was just obviously different than l A, you know. And um, I went to college in Florida full sell and then I ended up moving from there to l A. And so it was just important for me to to to start from scraps, so to speak. So how did you land your first p A job on that type of network? I mean, that's that's kind of a big jump. It was, you know, it was crazy. I was I

was in college and I saw an ad online. At the time, it was like Craigslist. Craigslist was like to go to uh to go to website for jobs, and so it said they were looking for volunteers and pas and all sorts of positions, and so I just, you know, I go out there and volunteers, see how it works out. One of my sister in law, you know actually at the time, brought the opportunity to me and I was like, sure, why not. It said, it wasn't paid. So I went out there and I kind of there was just like

like it was so much going on. It was like a massive production. You know, you had on one side folks for building at home. You had all these production vehicles and star wagons and all sorts of things, and it was it was, it was massive, and so I just wanted to be in the mix. So I just started volunteering and I met some of the production folks and I was like a volunteer p A for production. So you weren't even getting paid. It wasn't getting paid,

wasn't getting paid. And I'm not gonna lie, you know, And at moments I felt like a slave. And I say that was thankfully because it was like I was working twelve hour days for free, and in that environment, it was it was a lot of labor. And as I said, it's like it was like your you know, it's a lot of dirt. You know builders, you know, construction workers. You're passing out water bottles in the heat, and you know, carrying and pop up tents and coolers

and all sorts of things. But how are you supporting yourself if you're working twelve hours While I was, I was, I was off those days. I worked during the weekends and so when you know, it was a couple of days, and then they asked me to stay so at night because it was twenty four hours you know what I mean. So Extreme Makeover had twenty four hours shifts because they

would build a house in like ten days. And so I worked the night shift after the weekend, so I would go to school, then I work on the show. And when did you work work for money? No? But so that's what I'm saying. So this is I didn't. I had my own you know, situation with my my my grandparents and parents took care of the college stuff for so I was, I was, I was solid there, but um yeah, I just went and volunteered, and my dad encouraged me, as I look, stay there, stick it out.

You haven't done this before, and I did. And at the end of production, I never forget this. They said I did such a great job as a p A that the director and the production manager and the producer all came up to me and was like, hey, we want to pay you for all the days that you were. I started crying. I was like like, as you know, because I didn't care. I didn't. I didn't expect that.

And then they gave me a bunch of equipment, UM, that they had left behind and they were like, look, you guys, can you can keep this do what you want with it. And it was it was it was an amazing moment. And uh and then from there ended up they offered me a job. They said, look, when you finished college, you know this is one of our this is one of the biggest shows in ABC. We

love to travel. You know, you out with us, and you know we we only have a few pas that we traveled with us, and we think you'd be great. And a year later, UM, we stayed in touch and I moved to l A. A couple of days moving from l A, I had the season. I forgot what season it was, it was like five or six or something, and uh, I flew out to Hawaii. That was the

first That was the first production. And then you know, at that point, did you know what you wanted to do or were you still like in the I'm trying to figure it out. Yeah, I wanted to produce. I I was always interested in producing, directing, or editing, any of those types of things. I was I wanted to do more above the line work. Um, but I knew I had to start somewhere, and so I would always like shadow and look at what the producers were doing.

I want to do that guy shot. And so ultimately I worked on this show for a couple of years, and um, you know, eventually, just you know, after I think season two, we ended up just kind of trans transitioning out and then I that I'm gonna im gonna take a risk and just try to do my own thing, and uh and it was difficult, but I landed some pretty cool jobs and um, ultimately got to deal with BT exactly. And that's where I was. Album. I'm excited

to get to this part of your story. So I told you I'm not really a comedian, so I'm trying, like, no, I'm really excited about your story because Harry, you know, today I think you're what thirty five you You are the I want to say, the only in the first full service production company that's uh African American owned and

you own majority of your company. And I know there's like social media influencers like Dave Storm King Batch and Amanda that are co owners or yeah, well that Zeus is a network the production company that was prior to ever working with them. So so I had, you know, I had a job at I was an executive producer and had an overall deal with BT for about two and a half years after Extreme. So I went from PA, do you have an amazing opportunity with BT? How did

you land that deal? Though? Um? You know at the time, I'm one of my one of my good friends. His name is Brandon T. Jackson. He was an actor. Um, he was in a movie called Tropic Thunder. So you know, so Brandon, you know, we grew up together in Detroit, and so he connects did me. We did some projects together, we did some deals, um, and then he connected me

with his manager, and his manager became my manager. And then you know, he saw the talent and introduced me and my brother and another partner of mine at the time to the president of BT, Jason Tibersol's me, LJ and Jason, and we met with the president. And this is without having a sizzle or anything. He just said him, no, no, no, no. We had a bunch of sizzle riels. We had a bunch of decks that we just put together with like we had about probably ten different show ideas that we

just independently put together ourselves. And then when we went to the meeting, it was a general meeting on a Friday, like at at night. So we were like, this is gonna be a weird meeting, is gonna probably gonna be a waste of her time. So we went in the meeting just we didn't even we had no expectations. It was just like, sure of a general meeting with the

president's great but it was Brandon at the meeting. No Brandon, He just connected me with his his manager at the time, his manager with sim Bad's brother, and so he managed sim Bad's career, Brandon and a few others. And so when he represented us, uh, he just say, look, let me let me get you guys some general meetings. Um. And then we met with the president. In that meeting, we showed her a ton of sizzles and she just she just kept saying, let me see that one, let

me see that. And she watched all of our sizzles and she sat there and was like, this is interesting. And then she asked her, so, you guys produced direct edit, you pretty much do everything. We said, yeah, And then at that moment, she said, okay, me, let me, let me process this. Hour later, we got a call from Mark. We were driving and he said the president called him and said she's going to offer us a deal, a first look deal and to provide production services in house

for the network as executive producers. And so so you're providing services or she picked up the show and you know, no, no, she didn't even pick up a show. She just offered us a deal based upon the fact that we could do several things and she was trying to save money and bring productions in house instead of working with a lot of third party companies. And so she felt like with us in the reality content that we were doing at the time, it would be a great fit. And

so we ended up, yeah, signing the deal. You know, we didn't even negotiate. It was just like, let's take this opportunity, in this chance, and we didn't. It was it was life changing. And then after BT, I I felt like there were you know, I wanted to kind of do some other things. I wanted to branch off on my own and it was a great experience, life changing.

At BT, didn't worked on several projects from the Monique Show, the Family crews and and you guys are full on editing this without any outside third party or Yeah, we kind of managed a lot of that stuff. So we we would we would be hands on and we needed to be with the editing or whatever. But we were executive producers that could wear a lot of hats and so, um, you know, if we needed to edit, we would edit. Um, we needed to direct, we would direct. If we needed

to um do anything. We were we were able to do that and that saved the network some money. Now, who who was making up your team at the time, And I know your brother was involved and was your sister in law involved? No, No No, it was my brother and LJ. And then it was Jason Toilbert and we were we were production company called Three Sons Productions. Wow, and you guys were just over the place. It was. Yeah,

we had a lot of projects. So after that, yeah, we you know, I went out it was about two and a half years there, and the kind of transitioned out and I just said, you know, I recognized that there are so many of the networks you know that wanted you know, you know, primarily African American content, and so I just said, there's there's another like world out there beyond BT and you know, much greater opportunities to grow.

And so for me, it was starting a full service production company and that that was something that I was was very passionate about. And I said, look, these production there aren't any black owned production companies. Most of the production companies are predominantly white owned, and they're telling our stories and I just that's interesting, don't you think that? Yeah, because I mean the thing is the net works trust

them to facilitate. They feel like a lot of a lot of the reason why there aren't a lot of black production companies is because we don't have the infrastructure and you know, in place to really facilitate a massive production. And so, uh, there aren't a lot of producers out there that can you know, generate millions of dollars from a network and say hey, go deliver this you know,

high quality premium show. And and you know, that was something that I was passionate about, and they were like, I helped out a few companies that that you know in the in the introm before I started and launched my own. It was an entertainment one. I helped get their reality department and division going, um in the early stages. And then there were a few other company called The Bows. I've worked with them, and um, just a few others, and then I just said, you know what, I want

to start my own. So I was very blessed to have met a guy named Harold Lewis and who owned a bunch of McDonald ranchises in Vegas. And then I met with he introduced me to Jonathan Rodgers, who was the president of who was CEO on president of TV one. He was the president of Discovery Networks and CBS for a while. And they I told him what I wanted to do, and they made an investment and then I

was able to launch my production company with that. And so with that investment, and um, they gave me freedom. They gave me majority control in the company. And and you are still very young at this point. I was like four when they now when they made that first initial investment. I know, my very first company. I think my first investment gave me like sixteen grand, which was like a million dollars. What's twenty one year old? That's

like what I made in a year. Um, were you like nervous, because I know for me, I was very nervous like, oh my god, did I just cant someone? Am I gonna lose all their money? You know, you know, in front of them, obviously you're not saying this, but in your mind, you're like, I just played I just played someone by accident. You know. So what were you thinking when you got that first investment in yourself? Yeah? I was. I mean it was scary. Like when I saw the money hit the account, I was like, oh,

this is real. Like I was like, and it was the first payment was you know, six figures, and then another payment was coming and it was another like you know, it was it was another six figure pay. So they broke it up and I was just like, wow, like this I didn't expect that to happen so quickly. And and so when it did, it everything just became real

and you know, it just changed everything. And I hired a team, um you know, a small development team, and then the first show I ended up selling UM and and based only and we got it was straight to series as a crazy bidding war. I had a great sizzle, real in the deck and we went out pitched I had I had recently gotten signed with CIA just because of the sizzle, and so we were just from We went in there with a it was a senior agent at the time, and he was like, I want to

take this out. Let me represent you. And then we went out and it was probably seven networks that wanted it straight to series, which which show is this? It's called I watched that show. I remember watching that. So it was the sizzle was just it was a I don't know, five minute sizzle. It had every component in that. The cast was amazing. It was they just now, how did you how are you able for those people that are trying to get into your line work? How are

you able to shoot a sizzle? Like did you find the cast and say, hey, I'm gonna shoot this idea around you guys, just take one for the team, or did you do like promises or how did you know? I just I went about it. I said, look, at first, the person who came to be represented some of the pastors. So we talked and we started saying, look, let's find the cast of people that we can you know, uh, work with, that we think is going to be you know, loud and provocative and real and you know, and so

we we ended up finding that cast. First we told them, look, we believe we can get you guys on mainstream television, but there is a step that needs to happen first, and we would have to kind of give them a visual of your life and kind of give them a glimpse. And so at that point we felt like we could do that, and so they said, okay, sounds good. Like they trusted us. We didn't pay them for it. We shot with them for a couple of hours in the day,

maybe maybe a couple hours. For two days each cast member, we shot them and at church doing that thing, and then we shot kind of some of some moments of them at home and uh and yeah, when we did that, it just you know, we we cut it together, and we we put a unique edit together, and then when we took it out to the agency, they wanted to take it out and we took it out and it

just it just it was crazy. We had Oxygen who put in an offer, Lifetime put in an offer, VH one put in an offer, Owned put in an offer. Uh BT, all of these places. What do you think in the entire time, Like, I can't believe it. I couldn't believe I mean, we went and met with all I mean, I didn't even really have to say anything in the room, and the sizzle spoke for itself. It was the sizzle that they were just they just could.

They were all like, this is crazy. You know, we gave them a true inside look into you know, mega pastors personalized that they were struggling with showing that they're human, showing the flash like they had nice cars like it was. So it had controversy to it, but it also had a human element to it that made it compelling. And

these were also, you know, very compelling people. I think it's interesting that your family came from a more religious background and then your first coming out big show was this. What were your parents thinking when you first came out with that? I got I mean it was for me, it was, it was, it was, it was everybody. It was a lot of folks concerned because you know, the religious world is it's it's it's you got to be very careful, right, and so the church community was they

were they were, they were concerned. You know, they felt like this could potentially jeopardize what they've built, showing too much of their personal lives which people haven't seen before. Because these pastors you know, uh, you know, we're you're human,

they're people. People don't. People don't want to imagine a pastor being a human, especially the religious community, because they're trying to send this message of you know, pureness and you know, we're we're technically above sin, but they were They're still human and I love that you did that. People put them up on a pedestal that they can't live on, and so we wanted to humanize them and that was the goal, and we did it, and we did it very well. And what did your parents think? Though,

I'm sorry not about listen. No, my parents they were concerned. They were like, you know, look, they were happy for me, but they were concerned. And because you know, again we had so many offers, I couldn't turn it down. And that was the that was the question. What network did I want to go to? I was gonna go with own because Oprah and her team were aggresively trying to pick it up, and uh, Oxygen was really aggressive, and

then BT was aggressive. Everybody out. Everybody else we kind of ruled out, and it would just kind of we narrowed it down to those three, and Oxygen came in with an amazing offer. They said they would let me run it my production company, and they weren't gonna attach any other third party companies too, you know, manage me and my company. It was just like, we're gonna let you produce it. We're gonna give you the budget. And they offered me a deal that you know, I just

couldn't really turned down. And so, uh, my partner at the time, Holly Carter, and I we discussed it, we prayed about it. We said, let's go with Oxygen. We ended up going with Oxygen. Became the highest rated show in network history, and we got a second season. We franchised it to Atlanta and Detroit, and um, yeah, it was. It was a huge success, and that really I think

helped catapult my career UM in a significant way. And so at that point, you know, I had sold several shows, um with with my production company, Alpham Media, The Music Moguls with Man Jermaine Depris, Stoop Dogg and Jermaine dupris, Um, the Westbrooks, you know, Living Funny Two Sides with by Olla Davis. Um. I mean, we just we just sold a plethora shows and so, um it was a great run. So on the personal side, professionally, you're doing absolutely amazing.

But I'm curious to hear about your personal hurdles being young and being black. Did you face any of those hurdles at all or did you just kind of prieste through them? For sure? You know, I look very young, so they were like, you know, people would would would look at me a certain way and they couldn't believe it. You know. I had girl friends and people that I dated.

It was it was hard to balance the two worlds, you know, um with with you know, trying to have a personal life friends, you know, date, you know, uh, and then run a company where you hired over a hundred plus people to work for you, and you're trying to deliver these shows and uh, you know, millions of dollars are at stake, you know. So it was it was hard and it was very demanding, and um for me, I just I got through it. So fast forward to and we need to put some jelly on the let's go,

let's put I told you it's serious. It's so serious. I was expecting a lot more comedy and some some craziness. But um, so how fast forward past all these deals? You decide, you know what I want to go out? I want to go out on my own and create my own network or did you just see a space after Netflix? What Blockbusters asked, like, is that what happened? Because I remember when that air came in and that was the first you know, video on demand takeover. I

was very sad to see Blockbuster go back there, right. No, that was crazy. That was a crazy time. Um. You know, my production company we was, it was up and running for several years, you know, good four or five years before I kind of made the pivot to launching my own network. And to your point, yes, I was very much uh impressed in you know, studying the Netflix model and I saw I was like, oh, this is the future. They mean, their model was genius, you know, they were.

They mean, they've been around for twenty plus years, you know, and they've stuck to their their motto, which is convenience choice and control. And so convenience choice and control that was what they were about. How do we how do we make it convenient for customers at their choice and

at their control. And so they started doing it with to your point, you know, they eliminated people getting out of their cars, driving to a location, browsing certain movie or television titles, paying for it, and driving all the way back home. They said, why are people Let's just mail in the DVD. Let's set up a digital system, a website where they can enter their card, browls online

and we'll send out some DVDs. And that was convenient at the time for a lot of people, and that ultimately disrupted Blockbuster and then they I think when when as they started to grow and evolve and they became available on multiple devices. I don't think people saw them coming at all, and that's the key. Don't let them see you coming. You can't ever let people see you coming.

And so I think they they were able to really master that, and because they kind of came out on the scene, it was like whoa, yeah, no, I'll never forget. I think when Hollywood first was like, okay, Netflix, we were seeing what they're doing. I think when they publicly announced Homedy subscribers they add and then then they released um, Orange is the New Black and House of Cards as original original series with a list talent, and then they kind of like change the game because they it was

all at once. It was the announced the subscribers, the shows, and then they just released all the episodes at once people can binge right, and so Hollywood didn't understand it. And then that just generated even more And at the time when they made that announcement, they had about thirty five million subscribers and they were I don't I think they were charging like eight doll I don't remember exactly what they were charging, but it was like eight dollars.

Now it's like almost, but there's so at on the early stages of Netflix, they had about thirty five million subscribers when they kind of really were talking about it, and that was like they were bringing like two and eighty million dollars a month and revenue, so they were able to invest in original, high quality, premium content and really compete with networks and they didn't see him comming.

So not only did they disrupt Blockbuster and put them out of business, but they completely disrupted you know, our entire industry and allowed people to watch content you know, um that they're like I said, can being choice in control? And would you make that that slogan up? Because it sounds so good It should be choice And I love that. I didn't make it up, and I wish I did, you know, uh, but uh yeah, that just really inspired me. That was like, that was inspiring. And for me, I said,

I gotta do that. I don't know I'm gonna do it, but I gotta do that, and I gotta start moving on it. You do you you wear all hats and you're the network. So how do you enter that space? Is it? I don't even know where you would begin to enter. I'm going to create my own network. Yeah, no, it was. It was a lot of research. It was a lot of decks. There was a lot of I put a lot into the presentation. So like my my sizzle and like it went. It was on steroids, right,

So long story short. Um, I just I just felt like it was avoid you know, uh with with streaming, with the streaming space, and so for me, um, I just said, look, I gotta I gotta launch my own network. I felt like at the time, uh, it was a lot of undervalued talent, and I said that, you know, for me, I want to work with these people, give them the opportunity, and I wanted my network to be

about that. I wanted it to really allow them monetize, have some creative control, and really give them a platform to do some incredible things. And so that's when I said, I gotta launch Zeus, and I aggregated a bunch of influencers to be on the platform, and then I aggregated, you know, a couple of influencers to be equity partners to get this thing moving. And I started researching different tech companies and tech folks to work with, and then you know, we just we just came together and we

made it happen. And so yeah, that's kind of like how I launched Zeus and I invested my own money into it, saved spent a lot of money, and uh and and and got the network going. When I see you as an entrepreneur, I see some of them doesn't play checkers. You definitely played chess. You're you're at a different level. I'm guessing that behind the scenes, your business planning game is elite. Like you're doing a lot more research.

It's not more as much flash as it is You're you're hitting the books and you're trying to see the behind the scenes. Correct. How much time do you think you spend on that part of your life where it's I guess what I would say, behind the desk, from behind the computer doing your research. Yeah, I spent I mean I'm always researching. I'm always you know, studying different types of you know, things that are happening. I mean, I'm with my company with Zeus, I'm very hands on

a Boots Underground CEO. Uh and uh it is working

very well. And um, you know for me, uh yeah, I just you know, I'm I have so many ideas and I feel like for me, part of why I'm doing what I'm doing is because I feel like economical freedom is important for African Americans, being able to go direct to consumer, not having to have certain corporations and people you know, you know give you money or invest in you like, if we could understand how how powerful it is to go direct to the consumer, you know,

in this space, it's a powerful it's a powerful thing. And so we've been able to do that. And so I don't have anybody you know, looking over me and telling me what I need to do and how I need to do it. And so that that that to me, that freedom, that creative freedom, that business freedom is important and so um it's uh it's great. And so you know again we're we're we've been growing and scaling the company since we've launched. We've been been experimenting in different ways.

You know, we have a plethora of shows from Black China to Jocelyn with Ray J and Princess Chance, the Bad Girls of Natalie None, all sorts of great programming, and so, uh, you know, we're just going to continue to do that. And you know, we're definitely on this road to being valued at over a billion dollars based upon the revenue that we're bringing in and based upon the brand and the profit that we we we uh, you know that we're we're generating and and just gross revenue.

So for me, what we're doing is working. And you know, we we are looking to diversify our programming up quite a bit with scripted more unscripted programming. And so I always ask my customers and folks that are out there who are subscribing to watching just be patient. We're we're doing the best we can or what we have, and and we are competing. We have disrupted a lot of other networks, like the v h ones. I mean, they've sent me cease into sistem and now I feel like

that's that's a sign of success. I love I don't love him having haters, but I always think it's a compliment when you have a hater, and so I'm sure when you first got sued it was like shocking, but it south or what. I'm sorry I didn't get sued. They just so it's okay. They just said they just sit, cease letters, threatening to suffer things that didn't make sense. And so for me, it was just like, yeah, they

approached me. You know, when you have the highest level at Viacom reach out to you, you know, and you have multiple calls that yeah, it's it was, and we have very respectful calls. I have nothing but respect for Viacom and their team and their executive staff. But yeah, they were very concerned about certain things, and you know, and I didn't know we were that much on their radar, are but I guess we were, and I guess we are.

And so to the point where there networks like v H one and others were concerned about how we're operating and what we're doing. And so we're not doing anything wrong, we're not doing anything illegal, and so we're just doing our thing, and so I didn't think that. I don't think they saw us coming. But it's not really about competing, like I don't have. My vision is not to disrupt. I'm always looking to be an extender, not a disruptor. So whatever I can do to help extend other networks

of the companies, I'm all about that. Do you feel like there's a negative? I love disruptors. I love disruptors. To me, they're like the badasses. Uh there's you know. I think Starry Internet is a new new Internet company. There disruptor Steve Jobs was a distruct I love disruptors. Please disrupt every flashion. But when you say you're not a disruptor, you're an extender, what do you mean by that? Exactly? I'm not going in intentionally trying to disrupt anybody's business.

I'm not like, hey, let's let's focus on how we can disrupt and bring this company down. Like I'm not. I'm not doing that. I'm not even thinking about these people. So I'm thinking about doing a great job, giving people jobs and opportunities, giving content creators the ability to monetize. I mean, that's my bottom line is is providing jobs, is putting out great programming, being black owned, being an inspiration.

So for me, I'm never looking to intentionally disrupt extender Like, look, you guys are powerful machine, Like, how can we collaborate. That's where my mind goes. Let's be extenders, you know, Let's figure out strategic partnerships. Let's figure out ways to work together. Let's figure out ways to diversify things like on urine, like we're black owned, like a lot of your networks are white owned companies, you know. You know,

let's let's give some of our folks opportunity. Let's really do so you guys are bringing in billions of dollars. You guys have hundreds of billions of dollars a year and budgets to invest in certain programming, to invest in people in staff. Let's like really give folks to fair share. And so that's that's where I'm like, I want to look if we're going to talk, let's really talk. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So I'm looking to always extend and take myself out of it. And you're playing chess.

You always playing chess. I have a final question. I know we're running close on time, and I would love to have you back and just chop it up with you. Uh, when you look at money, I feel like we as African Americans, when we look at money, you know, we haven't had it, so the first thing we want to do is buy flashy stuff. And a lot of the guests on Eating all broke, I know. It's the way they look at money, in the way consumers look at money as a whole is. You know, they're like, well,

let's see how we can leverage this dollar. Now, I know you play chess, not checkers. I'm curious to see what you did when you first got those first checks. I bought some chains. Um no, you know when Honestly, for me, I'm I'm a pretty concerned guy. I mean, look, I do I like nice things, sure, Like even my

car is a very nice cars my car person. Yeah, Like I like, for instance, I got and I'm not saying this to Bolster, like I got a couple of Aston Martin's, the new ones, you know, and the DBX and the Advantage, But could I have gone gotten a Ferrari And I'm like, I think those are louder vehicles. I mean, the brands are great. I'm not saying that Aston Martin isn't loud, but it's like it's a little bit more subtle, and you know, it's it's not as flashy. So for me, like if I'm doing that, I'm gonna

roll a little bit more so. But I think, you know, I have a beautiful home. Yes, I'm very comfortable. I have a great you know, uh situation. But I'm also a guy that is is very you know much you know, thinking about others. I'm thinking about how do I provide more jobs, you know, how do I invest in more people, invest in shows. Predominantly most of my money goes into that, you know, and then just my pockets. So it's just important for me again, I'm carrying the flag of economical freedom.

That to me is important. Like we as black people, you know, we were we haven't been in a place where we've had economical freedom like that, and so it's important that we boss up. It's important that you know, we understand how to save money, how to generate money, how to play the money game. It is a game, it is a business, and and and it's important to understand how that works, how companies are valued. You know, uh, you know what to do when you are you know,

generating X amount of dollars. So for me, I think that you know, it is economical freedom is probably one of the most important things for me, And and and the fact that we are we have put so many content creators in a position like, for instance, I'll just give you Johnson Hernandez. You know, she told me she's made more money from Zeus in less than a year than she's made her entire time working for v H one on the show multi like three plus years working

on this. And so for me, that is important. That makes me feel good, like, look, we're sharing, we are, we are real content partners. We are like you're understanding your value, you know what I'm saying, Like, and that

to me is the most important thing. You know, people are are overlooked from so many different things, from perceived thoughts and and age or appearance, and so you know, it's like, I just hate that the Hollywood system undervalues so many people, folks behind the scenes who you know, should be generating in more money or talented you know, editors, camera operators, producer, directors. I mean, there's so much money out there and so talent produce all of it. And

so for me, I'm just saying, look, you're valuable. Let's try to get you to a place where you're generating as much revenue as you can so you can do some incredible. Nay, So you can make your own investments, because that's how people are gonna be able to invest in themselves. They can't invest in themselves if they're not making any real money. And so the more money we make, we're putting out there to our parters, to our staff, et cetera. So that's my goal. I love it. I

love it. I love everything you're about, your very your inspiration you, um, and I love that you're young. You know. I think when we're young, and we got to take a bite of these PB and j's Um, when you're young, you know, a lot of us say, well there's this hurdle, in this hurdle, in this hurdle. And I feel like you looked at all hurdles and just said move out the way, you know, and you didn't give them an

excuse to live. You know. Um, what advice would you give closing out to anyone trying to be in your position or even get it on the ZEUS network. Yeah no, I mean, look, I'm all I for me, there were there were two things that really shifted and changed my mind, you know, um, from a spiritual standpoint, I listened to every day, especially when I was at p A listened to Joel Osten. He was amazing. I don't know why

he impacted my life so much. I mean he was he just felt so genuine and also he his whole brand and everything he was about was about hope and and just change your perspective on life. And so that was that was that I needed that at a certain time. And then I think for me, the other thing was reading a book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad, And that was that changed my whole mind and you know about you know, uh, you know how rich people think and poor people think. You know. It was you know, you know,

poor people work for money. Rich people allow money to work for them. And I don't know why that just stuck with me, but that was like that was like something that impacted me. And I think that, you know, I say that to say, like, you know, be a risk taker, you know, take risk on yourself, you know, um, you know, really do some research, find out exactly what it is that you want to do. You know, people try to do so many different things. Be great at

one thing. Let that thing open up doors for you, you know, uh, and and for me, you know, get as much knowledge as you can from you know, certain certain certain folks books, um, research online. I mean, the information is there. It's like a veil litle to us like that. So I think people just have to change their mind and their perspective. And I think that, you know, once they do that, those seeds will start to plant, you know, um in their minds and then ultimately in

real life. And I think that I think people will actually live a life that they you know, dreamed of and that they really want to you know, really want to live. And so for me, I just encourage everybody to do whatever it is that they can to generate as much knowledge and information to find that thing that you want to do and do it and take that risk. Awesome. Awesome, Well I will definitely be taking your advice. Um. Now let's take up. There's the sub peanut butter and jelly.

There we go, m hmm, no, like this every week. So I'm not even gonna pretend like I'm still not eating peanut butter and jelly samwiches. This was when was the last time you ate this meal? Uh? Now it's been a couple of years, Um, I hope not a couple of years. Come on, probably a couple of months ago, probably I'm manage something now. In the middle of night, you were like, all right, right, exactly, all right. Well, thank you to another great episode of Eating Wall Broke.

We're extremely happy to have you here and hopefully you can get to all those miscalls you MS good. Thank you guys. For more Eating Wall Broke from I Heart Radio and The Black Effect, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.