JOHNNY RAY GILL - Head to Tail, Art to Survival

Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke. I'm your host, Coleen Waitt, and today we have very special guests.

Act all.

Johnny ray gill is in the building.

Up, SUPs up, everybody, How you doing?

Thanks, good, good good. I am very excited about today's dish. I was telling my neighbor like, yo, she was like, who are you interviewing?

I said, we're gonna do true. Well, I don't want to say.

I don't want to say what we're doing. Go ahead, you tell us what you're gonna have me eating today.

Okay, we're going to be doing whole fish. I know that's not the most creative name, but that's what I always call it, so whole fish baked. I learned how to do this in Ghana. Ghana, Yeah, and Ghana in twenty sixteen, so you know, connecting, connecting back to the diasporas. So that's why this dish is important to me. You feel me? So, So yeah, we're gonna get.

Outside eating my problem.

Yes, And just for you guys listeners, I got the email was whole trout or.

Whole whole whole seabring. You can do a whole anything whatever you like. The reason I like this dish is because it's it's easy. It's really about how you season it and what you used to season it, and the herbs that you used to season it, and then you put it in the oven and wash your hands with it and then eat it after south.

Yes, and it's extremely affordable. So I did go to Costco guys and it was one, two, three four how many fishes out?

One two, three, four, five six, So a.

Whole family of six k eight for fifteen dollars. Yes, and I will say, not only is this dish unique in the sense of you know, price and quantity, and you know obviously nutrients is approaches. Yeah, but I will say, Johnny, you are awarded the most seasonings in one episode. Oh shoot, go ahead and name all the seasonings that you have for these fish.

Okay, we got cumin, salt, and pepper. Of course I use mince garlic, the watery cond you know, not the dry con. You don't want your fish dried, so the watery car so you can use the juice. On the inside. You have ground cinnamon. That's just something I like to use to give it a different kind of flavor on the top at the end, you have chili powder, cayenne pepper. Depending on how spicy you like your thing, you got deal garlic powder. I advise using like avocado oil because

And you you they said fresh.

Yeah, fresh rosemary is good. I actually, you know, brought some green onion from my garden that we're gonna use as a garnish at the end. Yeah, yeah, you know about that. Yeah, I do have a garden absolutely in the middle of.

I would like if it was someone I had to be trapped on earth with right now, I would be fine being trapped with you because your food looks like it's gonna taste great.

Hey, we're gonna be all side, you know what I mean. We got lemon out here. But as far as the erb, you can really do what you want. The thing about this whole fish situation is really about tailoring it to your specific tastes. That's not one. You can season it however you like. If you want your joint, you want to crayle fish ball, mean, put some crayo season in all those things. If you want it to feel like

What's someone behind this is kyne pepper. And then you have a hot sauce and lowries or even do you use lories.

I don't use the Lowries on here because I want the I want these specific, the specific seasons that you can use individually, where Lowars is more like something that yeah combined already. I use the hot sauce at the end. You can use that if you want. You know, there's a lot of different kinds of hot sauces.

Yes there was, by the way, there was a million back that we didn't know which one.

Yes, I mean, I just I get whatever it's on sale to be completely framing. And you know this is eating while broke, and so for me, I feel like while you're broke. You should, especially in America, where the healthcare system is the way it is, you should be

Yeah, we out saying, okay, let's do this.

Let's do this, all right. So first thing we're gonna do is I'm gonna cut this this woman. Okay, So do you cook a lot? It depends on my schedule, To be completely frank, I mean I have the thought to cook a lot, and then I'll be like, I'm gonna order this Chipotle because it's you know right there. But I think meal prepping is important, so you can try to make sure. Yeah, yeah, but we need a lot of limits.

I have meal prep on Sundays I like to do. I have this new thing where I try to do all my cooking for the week on one day. And it helps for multitude of reasons. One I'm not cleaning dishes, but two, when you're constantly on the go, to be able to just reach in your fridge and have your meals already prepped and know they're nutritious and taste great,

Yeah. Then you got to make sure you eat it so it don't go bad.

Yeah, for the most part. Now I've learned because of economic circumstances, I don't cook more or buy more than I can eat in a week.

You know that's art.

Yes, Before I used to buy everything and just watch it all go bad.

Get this sticker off your here.

So where does cross tape?

Cross tapes in Toronto the most in Toronto. But then we do our exteriors and stuff in DC. And I know this year they went to some other countries to film some special stuff for season two. So we outside.

Okay, where do you live?

I live in Koreatown in Los Angeles.

Oh okay, Okay.

How do you like Toronto?

I love Toronto. It felt like living in a more mature America. Yeah, you know, when you go to other parts of the world, like it definitely feels like another planet, Like when I was in Hong Kong. That's a completely different culture, lifestyle, same thing in Ghana or South Africa or whatever. But Toronto is still a Western civilization. It's just they have infrastructure that we don't have here.

And you're like, like, what.

Like being able to take the bus in the train and have public transit, healthcare, you know. Yeah, these these things that they say will destroy our country are making their country thrive very well.

So health cares for you there?

Yeah? Yeah, me, I'm packing.

So would you move there?

Absolutely?

Really?

Absolutely?

So why are you still here? Because of because of the acting?

I think for a lot of reasons. You know, I built something, my family's here. You know, there's a lot of who you have to go through and trying to move to another country. So yeah, but that's a work. Visa I think that I think that joint expires after a certain amount of time. So you know, okay, we got this.

Okay, guys, I'm gonna I'm gonna let y'all know what he did.

He just cuts some lemons.

Yeah, the lemons. Yeah, we slice them to we slice them, slice them up. So now we're about to get into scoring these fish. Okay, so you want to put some that's basically putting slits in the fish so that the oil and stuff can get inside the cavity.

All right, cavity, guys. Yeah, so that the cavity I'm guessing is the body of the fish.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the inside body cavity.

You know what I mean, Oh, body cavity.

That makes sense. So he's cutting little slits.

And normally it's like little rib marks.

Yeah, our knife may not be that sharp. He's discovering what eating while broke knives are made of right now.

Yeah, but you know we are got Yeah, so you get it on both sides.

When was the last time you made this.

Maybe a few months ago. I got it into I kind of got it in my blood and bones. Now.

So when we go to your house, you have that many seasonings.

Yeah, I don't know why I'm so excited about how many takes less. Okay, that looks great.

Number one, All right, not right, bring other little homie over here.

So today he's gonna cook us three fish. That's for me, one for him, and one for the afterpis.

Yeah we outside. Also, y'all when y'all cutting this, don't be doing this while you're watching TV or something and slice your hand off. Why because it's because it's slippery. Yeah, it's slippery. So and I'm not you know, you know, none of us are the people on the food network.

So and are you supposed to cut down to like the little spinal bone?

If you don't want to cut too deep, you want to cut too deep, you just want to make it, make it an opening, so the oil has somewhere to go inside, got it?

That knife is pretty bad?

Huh, it's all right.

Okay, are you excited about eating this?

Very much? So? I didn't eat today?

Okay, before you came, I had sardines in rice paper.

Okay, Okay, that was prior.

So today's a fishy.

Fishy day, fish day.

Okay, guys watching watching him cook?

So take me back to what were you doing in Ghana.

Me I was there my ex girlfriend at the time. It was her mother's fiftieth birthday, so we were going there to celebrate that. Also, we were adult mentors for a youth program. I was leaving DC, so we were a chaperone and working with the kids as well while we were down there. So it was super dope.

How long were you there for?

I think like two weeks. We were in Acras, were Acros the capital of Ghana, We were in Kumasi City, and then we were in Cape Coast to see the slave castles. How was that? It's a history lesson and it's it's very informative, I think, especially to the Western eye. I think we have a very academic idea of what slavery was like, what the Middle Passes was like, what

So yeah, how did that change your views?

I don't think it changed my views. At Allah, it open drives even more because, like I said, it's one thing to talk about talk about bigotry and those kind of things in an academic sense, like I got this answer right in school. It's a completely different thing to see it firsthand, you know what I mean, and to see what that's structure, and to be able to touch the wall, and to be able to go inside one

So wow, So have you been back?

Yeah? I was just not to Gona specifically, but I was just in South Africa, which was a beautiful place speaking of really great, great food that you'd never had. I had warthog for the first time, ostridge, all kind of stuff. Okay, do we score both sides of these? Yeah? Make sure? Okay, Boom, I'm sorry. So now Now that these joints are scored, now it's time to oil the heck out of these bad boys. Okay, you don't want no dry fish, So that's when you get this avocado

Now, do you have to do both sides when you do that?

Yes, this is just like lotioning your knees, you know what I mean. You gotta make sure you don't want no ashy parts.

Okay, okay, are you gonna massage it?

Yeah, I'm gonna do a little messinge and.

It's not gonna come out oily even though you put in that much oil. Nah, I would feel like a real chef if I you Right now it looks legit.

Well, hopefully you know we're gonna see. I've never I've never done it with this kind of pressure, but you know I like.

It, and I judge the dish, and I'm very honest.

Please please judge it. If it's whack, be like, look, man, this is whack. He came here and did all this foolishness.

I'm be like, he used all thirty seven thousand seasonings and it still tasted.

Bland still sucks.

Okay, that is really oily. Yeah, it's supposed to be that oily.

Yeah.

Do you ever eat the head and the eyeballs?

Yeah?

Are you gonna do it today?

Yeah? This experience that The thing that I like about it is it's very community oriented. Normally, again here a lot of indigenous peoples in the diaspora, they ate together. Whereas eating the filet makes this is my plate where when I ate this in Ghana, Now, all of a sudden, it reminds me of like a crab boil because you have to go slow because of the bones and stuff. And so now you're in conversation, you're in community. I'm taking some of your fish, You're taking this part of

Oh you guys ate the fish together?

Yeah, I mean you can eat it by yourself. But then also, like I said, if you and your partner are cooking whole fish, now you're gonna be eating this part, eating this part, this that, and the third.

So yeah, yeah, out sided.

All right, So now it's time to you season this thing. Where do I want to start. I think I'm gonna start with, Oh, here's the salt right here. How much it's coming out here? Okay?

Yeah, when I pour salt, I do this. I pour it like kind of into my palm and let it bounce off. Just in case I pour too much, I can save it.

Yeah.

I'm usually very I'm usually very light with salt. I like to taste the flavor, the actual flavors instead of just you.

Know, I heard salt like helps bring out the flavor, right, Yeah, I.

Can, Yeah, I think you. But you have to remember that a lot of stuff that we have has salt already in it. So like, for example, if you go get a can of beans, beans has a lot of salt and sodium already in it, so you have to get it without out the salt so that then you can put your desired amount of salt in there. So, you know, I think I'm just one site. No, that's last. That's last.

Okay, Mmma, were you end up learning how to make it? Were you in someone's house watching to make it every day?

No, I was on the beach, if I remember correctly, I was on a beach and they were pulling this right out the ocean and going straight to town and so, you know, I had heard of whole fish before, but it felt like it's very far away. Yeah, I'm at a like elegant restaurant situation. So then when they were doing it, it was just regular folks eating, you know what I mean, off the thing.

So do you go fishing?

No? No, my dad was supposed to take me when we were young, but he never did. So if you're seeing this where my fishing tripped out, are you close with your dad? Pretty much? So? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think we had a we had a tough relationship growing up. But you know, I think people grow, you meet them where they are.

And what made it tough.

I think sometimes it's hard for generations to combine, especially if you don't have the same ideas about you know, masculinity and stuff that you that your parents have. So so yeah, he was a He was a hard man, you know, for for for in many respects. So yeah, it just made some of the things, you know, the grown up experience a little tough. But I'm one of those kinds of casts to where that is what that is. But you gotta move on and you gotta put your

Did you go through therapy?

Oh? Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. I think that's I think that's necessary to a to a degree. And I only say that because sometimes capitalism wants therapy to take the place of actually making people's lives better. It's hard to therapize somebody that's having issues because they're poor, or because they can't you know, because their their friend was shot by

So, yeah, when did you start going to therapy?

I went to therapy after shoot. I went to therapy after the pandemic, that like, right after the pandemic. Yeah, like yeah, like I believe. Yeah, And I was in it for two years straight.

Basically, What made you want to get into.

It My relationship with my career and then also I was coming out of a breakup at the time, so I thought, you know, I would be talking about the breakup and what's going on with that, and then come to find out, you have more things you need to unpack. But the thing I will always remember that my therapist said, is that you're kind of like a baby bird, right Like, you're in this place so that you can learn how

I never I never hear guys say like, I don't want to stereotype, but you never hear guys say like they win to therapy, like after a breakup, because you always just assume guys handle them.

That's what we're taught.

Yeah, they look like they handle them pretty well at least I would never think like a boyfriend would be like, after breakup, I'm going.

To go to therapy. Yeah, no, I mean I think.

Actually I don't think I know anyone that's ever done it.

It's a male.

Yeah yeah, yeah. Like I said, I'm all about elevation, and so you know, and also sometimes you're heart is hurting and you have to you have to acknowledge that, and you have to figure out how you're going to, like I said, move forward. And so there were things about that relationship that needed to end. But because I recognize that there are ways that you can then improve yourself moving forward, and not just in a relationship standpoint,

Okay, now you're only seasoning the one side.

No, I'm about I'm just doing it all at once so that then I don't have to keep flipping.

And yeah, I'm learning, I'm learning.

I'm see she was testing me. She was like, oh, so you're gonna have a neked inside. Huh, she's gonna have one side neked.

I'm learning it looks really good.

Guys.

It almost looks like he has a breading kind of formed. I don't know if that's how it's supposed to, but he has a lot of seasoning on this fish.

Yeah, that's one of the things I learned with this. It seems it can seem like you're gonna overseason it, but every recipe I've ever tried, they're like, you need to season the out of this thing so that you can make sure you get the flavors and fused inside.

So so take me to acting. Was were you acting before you went to Ghana?

Oh? Absolutely, Yeah. I've always been an artist. I started my I started my Courage, a spoken word poet. Oh so yeah, my first I was on stages when I was fourteen fifteen years old. I remember seeing Saul Williams in the movie Slam and I think it was ninety eight at the time. It was at Sundance and they

And in college, I got, what do you mean it took you to college like you were winning competition?

Oh yeah, I was winning competitions and stuff. But the artis is what took me to school. I knew I wanted to be a storyteller. I knew I wanted to be a writer and those things, but I didn't start acting until I got to Temple. So when I got there, I was performing and a teacher saw Temple Temple University in Philadelphia. That's why I went. That's where I got my graduate degree or my undergrad degree after I went to USC for a year and they stole all my scholarship money.

But anyway, who us did?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, these schools they be running. Sometimes they'll recruit students and say, hey, we can get you this amount of scholarship money. Boom move if you get down here, and then when you get down there, they're no longer of assistance. So a lot of my independent scholarship money that I had when I was going to s see. I used it that first semester and couldn't find any more funding for the rest of my state, so I had to transfer.

My Gosh, yeah, do you think that was a good decision.

It was a good decision because I didn't spend thousands of thousands of dollars. But yeah, so I think it's just it sucks.

Many people are Were you heartbroken over that or like you felt like did it hurt?

I thought it sucked.

Yeah, but you get but it's like not an education because you get hustled.

Like and I think a lot of times we talk about hustle, like, you know, there's TV shows about hustlers, like from From Power to all these kind of stuff, but there's no hustlers. There's no TV shows or documentaries and things like this about the hustlers that are uber wealthy. The schemes that these universities can be running to get people's money to raise tuition wats and things like that,

Saying about it.

I don't think enough people talk about it. I don't even think people value college degrees the way they once were valued.

Yeah, and I think that's a gift and the curse. You know, well, you don't. University isn't the only way you should be educated. But I also think that that is a form of it's a form of trying to make trying to devalue intellectualism, this idea that you can you can that there's no expertise on things. If I need help about astrophysicists, I'm gonna talk to Neil Degrassey Tyson, you feel me. If I need help with basketball, i'm'na ask Lebron James. I'm not gonna ask the dude doing

Say oh oh season other side?

Yeah, oh yeah, we outside, this is my my my hasn't got me saying that a pandemic.

Yeah, yeah, you've been saying that a lot.

Yeah, yeah, it's okay. We all have our tics.

So what happened at Temple where you ended up wanting to get into acting?

Professor saw me performing some poetry and asked me to She said it she thought I should audition Furst August Wilson play called Jitney, and that's how it started. It was a hobby at first. Then you realize you're pretty good at it. You know. I was in film school also at the time, and so When it came to grad school, I decided to apply to grad programs and drama programs, and I was like, whoever gives me the

Nice. All right, I'm gonna let you say the seasonings back to back on what you're doing. You started with tumoric. Now you're moving over to pepper.

Yeah, now I'm moving to pepper up some tomb tumbe on here, trying to pepper this thing already put the salt on this side. But like I said, for me, it's just tough having to flip it each time with the season. So you do it back to back, and this, as you can see, this dish is mostly about the preparation of it.

Yeah, because once once you're done, you're gonna just because.

Once you're done it's gonna stick it in there.

And what's the next season? You got it?

This is chili powder.

Yep, you're gonna take over the cooking. You're gonna do your cooking thing announcing then.

Okay, yeah, boom, this is chili powder. Now I'm going to this garlic powder.

And guys, just so you know, he's like putting a lot of seasoning. It's not like he's just doing a dash or two.

Yeah, you really got a season this thing. I'm going to the cuman now, folks, I really do love cumin.

Can I try like a dash of it? I just want to see what it tastes like?

Plan Okay, it's like a humans actually one of my favorite situations. How are you feeling about that? Now? I'm going with something.

Maybe maybe on the on the food. Have you tried it?

Plain?

No, I don't think I've ever just put seasons in my mouth. No, I don't try it. No, No, I don't think I've ever just took pepperon.

I'm just saying, like, how I just tried it.

Trust me, if you tried it that way, you were not. Okay, what was the next one?

By the way, I love deal, guys. I used del on anytime I'm cooking any type of fish.

Okay, now we got the cayenne. I'll do a little bit of that for some some KICKI kick.

I'm so excited about this meal.

Boom boom boom, And I think that's everything. And so now I'm gonna ask some cinnamon.

Cinnamon is what through me?

Yeah? I like to experiment.

Put a lot of cinnamon.

And the best part is you do one side of the centiment so that if you want to flop between the tastes, you have it on both sides. You don't have it on both sides. All right. Now that we've done that, Now this is the part people forget. See how inside is all naked. You gotta season the inside.

As well, with all the seasonings.

As many as you like. So I'm gonna put some turmeric up in here, and then you put your fresh herb and stuff inside of here.

I just want to I don't want to get ahead, but I'm curious.

What are the lemons come in you're about to see?

Okay, okay, so you're doing turmeric on the inside. You don't want them to looking plain and dry. Well, nothing's dry on this fish. You can see the fish actually.

Absorb some of the oil though already.

Yeah, yeah, so I guess now it makes sense why you.

Bathed it in oil. All I know is.

If this tastes great, you're anyone that's coming to my house for the next week.

I want the.

Whole brinzino, only buy the falaise. But I feel like if you teach me this.

It's a rapt whole fish.

Oh cuman. Wait what was the other one? You put turmeric? And oh that's the one cuman is the one I tried?

Right? Oh?

Man, is that oven still preheating?

Oh no, look like it turned off. Can we can we get that joint back home?

See if Katie a love what she said? She said, don't get up.

Salts.

Okay, okay, I'm sure my my my father's here today.

I'm pretty sure he's waiting for this fish.

Ain't even the studio, I'll say that, which maybe he's not. Is he here?

I don't know he was.

Hit the preheat button. I don't hear a cough, so maybe he left.

Usually, Yeah, okay, you got what I want to put up in there. I'm gonna go without the pepper because I can't you know. Oh yeah, this is this I love deal. I'm glad we got you don't like the queuing, but you like the deal.

I think it just adds so much extra to it. That deals actually.

From my house, by the way.

Okay, well it's got some special love on it, you know. Okay, So now that we've done this, we've seasoned it on the inside. Now I come with the garlic, with the with the with the garlic, the mince garlic, and I take this and I put it on the inside.

Oh, you put a lot.

He ain't playing.

Inside the cavit. Boom boom boom.

I feel like you could cook.

I mean, you know, you can do anything you put your mind too.

I think you put it inside the fish.

Yeah, because you might because it's meat up in there also too. You know that you know a lot of garlic. Yeah, I'm a garlic, big garlic fan.

And I noticed on this dish you don't have no onions.

Yeah, I mean you can put onions. You can do tomatoes, you can do like I think. The cool thing about this dishes you can customize it any way you want. It's like, how do you want your fish to taste? You know what I mean?

And so what if I wanted to put like butter on the inside, put some butter up in their I feel like butter makes everything taste.

Put some butter up in the air. Buttery mug. You know.

Do you ever go on YouTube and just pull up absolutely?

I think that's one of the best things you can do. So if you're talking about eating while broke, I go into the store and whatever's on sale. For example, if beats are on sale and you can get five beats, all you gotta do is pull up a recipe and how do you cook beats? And you can have Beat steaks that night, and also you're having something incredibly healthy that's good for you. You can eat the beat tops, you can eat carrot tops.

You can you actually shop like that, though, do you really.

Actually when you realize that they I don't mean to keep taking things to this to this place. Yeah, when you realize that the grocery stores have a monopoly and they can arbitrarily raise the price on things, you have to do things to protect yourself. And I feel like, especially if we're talking about being broke and no diss but the vast majority of we've been having these conversations

So I like the way you think about shopping, though it's different. I never thought of just like saying, hey, oh this is on sale, let me see what dishes I can make with this. You love that garlic, He's gonna go through the whole thing of garlic for sure.

And then yeah, you got this whole small little garlic up in here.

So does garlic not like I don't know if I eat a lot of gar if some people want they eat a lot of garlic, just they just smell like garlic.

Nah, it's not gonna smell like garlic. It's gonna be it.

You know what I'm saying.

You like if you if you eat a lot, it'll like pour through your skin. You know you can smell it.

I don't have that, you know. I mean you're talking like it's a sparagus or something. You know when you get a spiritush or peace think, but you know it is what it is. But yeah, all right, so here we go. So now with these with the lemons, the lemons go inside.

Okay, Okay, I mean this looks like something you take a picture of on Instagram.

I mean I'm not gonna mind. Have I half you know, a little food trap.

You know, you got you know, do girls ever slide into your d ms over your dishes?

Yeah? Really, yeah, you know, but you know, I think women are can be a little bit more how do you say slick? Slick? Yeah, with my god delious, I would love to taste that sometimes, you know, And you're like, well, you know, we could be onside.

If I walk away from this interview saying we could be outside, I'm.

Gonna be so hey, you can thank my cousin for that.

Okay, So take me back. So you pass the showcases. I take it you murder them.

I murdered I did. I did to sketch this Alec Baldwins sketch from the CD about Alec. This character he's a he's a boss. It's a boss at a at a at a company and he goes down into the mail room and he takes a test and he realizes that he's legally retarded, like legally So it was super funny, uh, And so I did that. The contrast a scene from the Last Days of Judas is Carriot where Judas is on trial for it's a Stephen Atley Georgis play and it's a Judas is on trial for the murder of Jesus.

So then what happened after that?

After that you start auditioning.

And start auditioning for for roles TV shows.

But I don't understand why does it happen after that?

Well, because you need a you need an agent, a manager, those kinds of things. And so the show okay, also too, I put I put limon underneath. Okay, so the the under so the bottom gets the lemon flavor as well, y'all.

Honestly, we could upload this whole video to YouTube.

Be funny if I uploaded.

It and it started like getting kazilion views and then I'm just making money off your.

Well, I wouldn't say it's mine, it's you know, it's the peoples.

You feel me, the peoples, It's the people. It looks so good though.

I'm glad we're outside. Did I cut enough of this lemon? I hope? So?

Well you have more?

Yeah I do. It's just where stuff like that where I'm like, oh, I'm not a profession because I don't know how they be cutting with with with you know, not dry hands in the whole nine. So okay, we got that, and then now we get this rose marry off your here.

I forgot about the rosemary.

Yeah, you thought it was just over here chilling. Now you take this put it inside as well. This is this.

This is gonna be amazing.

I just know it.

It.

You ever to see a dish on TV and then you're like you kind of not start salvating, but you kind.

Of like see fellas you see sometimes you gotta be out here and cook a little something. But she's gonna be on the couch, Like, wait a minute, let me tell you something.

A quick way to my heart is cooking easy.

Hey, y'all, cooking easy.

Look y'all, I didn't be here twenty minutes already getting to the heart.

We all said, I'm telling you right now, he been here at least forty minutes cooking this dish. By the way he taking I think it's taking him, Johnny, I think it's taking you at least twenty minutes, twenty five minutes just to do the prep on this.

Yeah. But like I said, for me, it's it's the fun part. You you know what I'm saying. You got your TV show on, You're having good conversation.

You know what I'm telling you right now? You do this with a chick, she's slam dunk. This is a slam dunk.

You do the prep in front of her with out of doubt. I think there you got it.

You get somewhere now were about to eat?

How long we're gonna have this in there?

For? About twenty minutes?

That's it?

Yeah, especially if you have it on four to fifty cooks. You quick?

Okay? Do you have to flip it?

Nah?

Okay, go ahead.

Oh I know what you're about to do. What's that You're gonna cut in half and squeeze it all over the fish?

No? Oh but that was nice though. That was that was nice.

You're gonna do more slices, yeah, just on top?

Okay?

All right?

So you get an agent and manager off of the showcases.

Yeah, I got it agent and my third audition audition for a show called Harry's Law with Kathy Bates. I booked it and I had to move to LA I was about to go on tour from where I was No the showcases? Was it? You have two showcases, one in LA, one in New York, And so I was in I was in San Diego at the Lohoe Playoffs. That's where I got my master's in theater. And so yeah, I had to get up to LA and then that's when the nomadic journey of being an artist, you know, or at least being an actors started.

What was your family, Dina? Looking like you seem like very like your foundation is so solid?

Oh, thank you? I mean you mean like you mean like what I hope to accomplish, or you mean like my family growing.

Up, your family growing up?

You know, that's where I give a big shout to my mom. My mom did everything she could to make sure that we were in programs and things like that that elevated our minds and you know, put us on the right path. You feel me. She went through a lot, you know, growing up in the Bay, and I think she wanted us to have, you know, the most opportunity possible. So I put that, you know, on her, and some of those programs that I was in were very impactful, you know, for my life and my development.

So you know, we all say it parent household.

Or no, no, no. My dad was there, but you know my dad, I think it was more so focused on being the authoritarian and all that, and so you know, my mom was focused on the more nuanced you know, like education and and and making sure you're there to

So I like that, do you have kids?

Nah? No kids from me? I got plants though.

He didn't even say a pet, He said a plant. I guess with your work schedule, so you get the agent and the manager. How are you supporting yourself financially?

Shoot, just I've been very lucky to have an apartment that don't cost a lot. I keep my cost of living low. I got the toilet Prius two thousand and one outside and never had a new car so that I can gathery van do what I want to do. So you're very structured with Yeah, so you want to make sure like I'd rather go to France, or go to Ghana or go to South Africa. Then I don't know, keep up with the Joneses. And so again that's thankful

All rights of passage.

It was a process that I went through an African base to rights a passage program. It was the largest rights of pastor program west of the Mississippi when I was growing up. And it's a process of going from boyhood to manhood. There were seven barameters of manhood. The best way I can get you know, civilians to understand is like when people cross and become omegas and alphas

What do you have to do in there?

One second?

So this is this is this is it?

This? Is it all right? So now can I put it in this oven?

Yes?

Okay, good?

After you get your manager and agent. Yeah, what is your first role?

My first role is I play a character named Damian Winslow on Harry's Law show. Yeah, Harry's Law with Kathy Bates. It was on NBC. It was a fun show. Amana is in it, Brittany Snow So, yeah, that's the first time, you know, people saw me on TV.

And how are you supporting yourself leading up to that?

Money from leftover scholarship loans and and yeah, I mean we got paid from the show. I think it was what five six thousand episodes something like that, So just being judicious with.

Yeah, we didn't get any day jobs or anything during this.

No, no, no, no, I've never had I've never really had a day job. I never had where I was a waiter or anything like that. When I was in school, it was about school. I didn't want to It's funny. You can even ask my mom this too. She would be trying to get me to get a job or something like that, and I would say, if I gave you fifty five dollars to stand on the corner for eight hours, would you do it? No, exactly, So why

At a grocery store.

Once the check came back.

I was like, what, Yeah, no way. And that's not to say that those jobs that those jobs aren't valuable. Yeah, they're incredibly valuable, as we saw during the pandemic. It's just about what is your specific path, what is it that you want to do. And I want to be a writer and filmmaker and an actor. So when I was in school, I only had one study study, like what is it called work study program that I did and I was just at a hospital and I like that because I got to sort chemicals in medicine and

You spend majority of your time focused on your purpose.

That's what I was trying to do.

Yeah, and your mom has she moved to from saying hey, try a different stream of income.

Oh no, she don't say that. Yeah. Yeah. And also too, to her credit, she was the one that was coming to my place. You know, I'm from Portland, so you know, a lot of time, all of us are spending our time trying to get to LA or New York. So when I meet people from around the world, I'll be like, look, man, we was all trying to get to the same place. So most people don't got the money to be traveling from Portland to New York or Portland you know, to LA,

So yeah, I see you know how they have a curse star.

Oh really, you're.

Going to have a to have a we outside, You're going.

To bede for you?

Okay, okay, So your mom played a critical, well pivotal role in your where you are today.

Absolutely.

What was some of the hiccups on the way to before Cross because Cross ended up being huge?

Yeah, I mean the strikes. I mean I remember I actually was taking screenshots of my bank account and during the strikes. Post the pandemic, I mean, the pandemic is a hiccup. I mean I had like eight hundred dollars in my big account.

The pandemic was rough.

Yeah, it was rough for a lot of people. And it's funny people try to start editing that out of their experience. You know, I don't hear a lot of people talking about the pandemic anymore. I know it was very traumatic for a lot of people, but it just shows how close all of us are to being the unhoused person that we walked past on the street. Here in Los Angeles. I think there's like seventy five that

Yeah.

And also to your you're battling that perception because you know, most people are showing the red carpets and stuff they're not going to show when they lose their health insurance, which happened to me, you know, several years ago. Because with SAG after, for example, you have to make a certain amount of money just to keep it, to keep your health insurance. And so the way some things you know, work,

But would you qualify for medical?

Yeah? Medical and those kind of things. But like I'm just scar Yeah, but then that gets hairy because then it might take into account your total finances. So it's really it's really an interesting conundrum. I forget the brother's name, but I just I just saw his brother on Instagram. It's done a bunch of movies. Was just talking about that he lost he got dropped from his agency and lost his health care with two kids and things like that, and so a lot of times people aren't thinking about

Well, I wonder if that actors, actresses or artists talk about it behind the scenes, Like is there like a community where you guys are like.

Man this month, Man I haven't booked something in a while.

Or yeah, we talk about it. But like I said, I don't think. I think amongst all of us, you know, just as society in general are, we do not talk about finances.

Now.

It's about have a goal chain on, be swagging, be doing this, be doing that, and heck, the vast majority of people are barely hanging on, you know. So for me, navigating those hardships is about keeping it real with yourself, making sure that you have you know, a solid foundation financially, making sure you ain't buying shit you don't need to

The way you if you get a check, do you I know you travel? Is there like a minimum you have to meet within yourself to say, okay, you know what this year I'm going on a travel trip or is there a minimum spend or budget? How do you do that? How do you incorporate that which is great into a continual thing that's a part of your.

Yeah, yeah, I think it depends on what's happening from year to year. Some years you'd be like, I can't go nowhere. I can't go nowhere I go, I gotta sit inside. I did that just semessit you. But then when you do travel, it's about how do you travel? Like sometimes you can travel with a friend and a ten thousand dollars trip is now four thousand dollars because you guys are splitting things, you know what I mean? Or five thousand dollars I should say, are you you don't have to fly first class?

Yeah?

For sure you can. You can get there just as fast and just as nice in an economy plus you know. So I'm not saying don't enjoy yourself, but you just have to be cognizant of what's going on. I mean, in La going out to dinner, you can spend two hundred fifty dollar two hundred fifty dollars easy. If you eat out, it's tough.

But it was talking about that. I don't know if you read an artist.

I didn't.

I didn't lay The CEO was saying, like, sales are down, but sales are down across because people are just not eating out anymore.

Yeah, and I think that I think that's smart. Yeah, yeah, I think you should. You have to. I think at least for me, operating on a twenty year plan or a twenty five year plan, I think it is foolishness. There is no I have no idea what's going to be happening twenty years from now. And so that's why I have an apartment, not a house.

But that's I was going to say, But a house is smart.

Because sure, and again that depends. I think you have to have those kind of conversations because again, ask those people that couldn't pay their markets during the pandemic, and when you're in a financial meeting about what the twenty year cost of something is going to be, you don't factor in those real life situations where you could be laid off from your job. Ups Well laid off twenty thousand people after they got their got their deal done.

But I will say though, I think spending sometimes gets tricky and there has to come a point where you say why, Like if you're buying a house, I think the traditional thing is that you're buying a house that you can afford. You know, like a lot of people the go to a bank the bangal say oh, you're employed. When you're employed, typically you qualify for more home versus entrepreneurship.

It's a nuanced conversation until they come in and want to build a freeway through your neighborhood, you know what I mean. So like I just I just always feel like for me, it's smart for me. It's smart to plan for all the things that can happen to a black and brown person in this country. And a lot of times we speak as if they won't take something of yours through imminent domain or like I said, the pandemic.

I am taking back though a little bit, because on one hand, you're you embody like a lot of faith, right, But then there's this other side that seems like it's semi embodies, like almost embracement of fear of the unknown.

It's not fear the unknown, it's what it is.

It is what controlled a little bit.

That's what's known. It's just knowing history, you feel me. So. So people were surprised by the pandemic because they didn't know about the other pandemics that happened in history. People are surprised about yeah, I mean there was we could talk about ebolin in West Africa, et cetera. People are surprised about strikes because they don't know about the strike history of the United States. People are surprised about police violence because they don't know the history of police violence

So that your structure comes from knowing your history, knowing the history, so it's not fair base. It's more like, based on history, I can predict that.

This might happen to me. So maybe maybe this money that I'm getting right now, I need to make sure it can last me ten years as opposed to just three or four, and just me and the would have the financial freedom to do whatever I want. And that's not for me to say that you shouldn't get a house or something, since we're talking about homes. It's just that for me, I don't want to be tied to

A definite firm believer in like keeping your overhead as low as possible. When I say I keep that overhead low, and I think that that is the true. If you work for yourself, you have to yea otherwise you will end up filling out some resumes.

Somewhere yes, yes, yes, yes.

Okay, How how we got five more minutes.

That's five more minutes. I'm hoping that this this fish is this oven is high enough. But I mean, we're gonna see. I had the same thing happen when I cooked this for Thanksgiving with my with my mom. Like my oven because it's a gas oven gets much hotter than her ovens would get. And so I had to be like, okay, now we need to do this. Okay, now we need to do this. Okay they did. They did.

Do they ask you to bring the fish every year?

I mean that that's a that's a tall task. I did. I think that's a one year situation. They asked, Oh yeah, they've asked about it. But you know, again that was just you know, shout out to the women cooking, because then I gotta do.

It, Okay, cool, just making sure.

She still gets yeah, I got yeah, I gotta do it.

So she comes to town. She lives in Portland. Yeah, so if she comes to town, she's like, yo, I want the.

Fish, but I gotta get the fish. Mama gets what she wants.

Now, Okay, it's got four minutes. Why are you scared it's not gonna be cooked.

I just want to make sure it's cooked the way I wanted to be cooked. And I don't know this oven. This oven, this is billy I've never met.

Let me tell you something, Billy, I don't I don't have a lot of faith in Billy. But I will say that one time me and Mario cook cakes, okay, and I thought it was gonna take longer, and because of me, we burnt the cakes.

So I don't mind a little char now, I don't mind a little chart because if the if, the if, the if, the tail gets crispy and all that kind of stuff. Those are you. Yeah, I actually really liked the finn parts, especially when they.

Get crispy and he's swallow and everything, well.

It crunches up in your mouth like.

Look, I'm gonna do it all I'm gonna do it all I eat. So when you could do Cross the show, what was that experience?

Like? It was fantastic. One of my favorites of my career. Big shout out to Ben Watkins and Altatage and everybody, Craig Sebells, everybody who was working on that forgiving me the autonomy to create the character that I created. It was a great experience with the cast. We're a well oiled machine up there, and so hopefully you know everybody likes season two as much as they like season one.

Yeah, and your series regular? How was that knowing that?

Well, I mean it's nice, you know.

Get a consistent, consistent now in a situation like this, you're still like weary though, right uh.

Yeah, cause like like like, look at what's happening with the president. They're there, they're they're kidnapping little girls off off elementary school stages. So I guess for me, the only thing that I'm trying that I would try to get across the people is that what's happening in your little in your value. You don't live in a vacuum, so imagine all the things that are happening to folks

Yeah, I agree, Are you still doing spoken word.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wish there were more places to perform out here in LA. But I'm working on ALB you do fo. Nah, I haven't been there. When I was thinking about going, and I reached out to some folks, and I could be wrong totally. There was a lot of slam rules and I'm not a big like poetry slam where the poem's got to be three minutes. You're in competition with other poets and things like that.

I want to eat, Eat, Eat, I never wanted to eat so bad on the show. Okay, all right, let's talk about this album, Yes, ma'am, come all the way back over here.

Yeah. So it's a concept piece called Screenplays that you can see for it is my filmmaker goes to a studio to pitch movie ideas, and all those movie ideas are a song. So think of modern day slick Rick. They're all storyline records. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, blended hip hop, jazz, spoken word. Each song kind of has its own flavoring theme. That's why I say modern day slick Rick because for me, yes, yeh, slick Rick meets nos. So you know, I'm very excited about that. Yeah,

Wow, that's creative, that's very art artistic.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

Are you doing this independently?

Yeah yeah, everything independent. I think that's the beautiful thing I will say about, you know, having a functioning career is that you can take some of that money and go, you know, do other things and not have to be worried about this needs to be on the radio, This has to fit some kind of metric. Whatever happens with the record is whatever happens with the record, And I think that's the way that art has to That's how you should make art. You never really know what's going

Do you have any ideas what you'd like to see come from it?

I just want to touch people. Like at the end of the day, I'm forgetting the philosopher's name, but I just really feel like we're all water dropless in the ocean. We all we all grains of sand on the beach, and so it's just about playing your part, and so I'm hoping that, you know, after my life expires, you on this planet. I've played my part so that the future can be more equitable and be more elevated for other people. So I don't get into the hero worship.

Wow, you're deep. You're very deep.

What advice would you give to someone trying to pursue acting or the entertainment industry? Besides living on a.

Budget, you live on a budget. Gosh, dang it. I would say, determine very ong what kind of artists you want to be. And what I mean by that is, do you want to do Recei's commercials or do you want to do indie projects? Like what do you want to say? What's your voice? And then I think by defining what that is, it'll help shape which way you want to go. And you know you'll be doing top Dog Unnerdog on stage versus this other project that is

I mean, the money versus the purpose.

I guess that's a simple I guess that's a more simplistic way to put in. I'm just you know, one does I put like this? I might not think you're gonna be doing certain kinds of art if you're doing other kinds of art. If that makes sense, it's how do I say this? Because like it's so easy in this culture where people think you're dissing everything, you know

So in your current state, if says times are rough and someone proposed something that you weren't you couldn't see yourself doing, but the money was good, you would turn it down.

Yeah, depends on what that is like. Obviously, obviously you have to, you know, be realistic. So, you know, if you got to do the kool Aid ad because you ain't, you know, you you you're struggling a little bit, then cool. But if I'm struggling and somebody asked me to do a voiceover for the Republican Party, because that's a no, that's a negative. I can't do that, Okay, So yeah, I like that your firm. It's an absolute negative.

And then at what point did you discover who you were and what your standards were?

Shoot, I think it's just ever evolving, constantly evolving, and I think you're it changed. It's going to change over time. So I think I've always known that, I, you know, believe in equality and equity and and and making beautiful work. And I think I just get that from the ancestors, from Nina Simone too, you know, down to Richard Pryor, down to I seen rehearsal Ali the other day. You know when you see these you know titans in these star wars, Like I said, they have a standard and

Well I never thought of it like that. It never never even occurred to me.

Yeah, I mean, if you think about a poem, think about all the poe that come to mind, and well, I think it was what's good brother's name he was in training day. I'm forgetting bro, not Denzel, the other brother. I'm forgetting his name right now. But when he said, people rarely think about poetry until their mother passes away, until they have a broken heart, until they're trying to figure out how to you know, examine this emotion. And that is why poetry has always been here since the

So yeah, I agree, all right, Well, I.

Think we did not hear some sizzlings. We got too many. Don't let us eat, Let us eat.

I have never waited so.

Long, so I'm my bad. You know, we.

Usually have a limit on the show, like if you can't cook the dishes under twenty minutes.

Oh man, I didn't get that. My bad.

Well, we didn't know.

We never had a whole fish on the show, so respectfully, we've never done this before, but we do know this is a gourmet meal. This ain't this ain't no. Well, I guess it's a broke dish, but it doesn't feel like a broke this.

You know, I think, Yeah, I think that's what you gotta do. You know what I'm saying. It's like you can you can be you can be fly on a budget. It don't even have to be a budget. It's just so you can continuously keep being fly. You don't want to be fly. And then now I see you you know, you know unfly? You know what I mean?

Like, you know, left, it's ready?

It is ready?

You sure? All right? Cool? Let me take this out.

I hope it's ready.

Man, she got you got?

You don't eat this with broccolinia nothing.

Actually, I wouldn't. I normally, you know, make a salad, or you can make a rice dish, some Beeranni, you could do whatever you like.

This would be good with some broccolini.

Yeah. First of all, high five broccolini. That I actually love. That's one of my favorite dishes.

It's my daughter's.

It gets really sweet when you when you chart it. I love I love it. Yeah, I love it.

My broccolini. Guys, he wouldn't like it.

I know why he wouldn't like why I already know.

Why would just judge you?

Why?

Because I use butter.

I use I use a lot of bumb broccoli. I do butter, a little bit of garlic, like the mince garlic you have with a lemon zest and the lemon zest and the two Okay, and then I and then I saw in that with deal on top a little bit of minutes.

All right, I think we good beat us.

I think the whole crew even behind the scenes. Look, my dad is standing I can see you. He's standing up like yo.

Let me get over all right, all right?

This is Look, it is the most anticipated dish of the season.

So can I put the pan there? Do I got it? Where should I? I should put it?

Probably put it there? Yeah, move all those extra filates. I told him he would have to cook all these pilats. I think I didn't because we've been here for thirty years.

Yeah, we'd have been here all day, but we would have ate all week.

Though we would have ate, we would have woof. Look I see him standing up there watching everyone's gonna fight for this last fish. Because I'll tell you this, I'm not sharing my fish.

Oh look, we got a special.

We gotta eat. We gotta eat.

Okay, right here, the pressure is.

On, yo.

That looks so legit. We're gonna need a picture that. I guess we'll get pictures after that looks that's great.

And see now the oil and the water become like a juice that you can do.

You have your phone on you.

We should totally take a picture.

Yeah, here we go.

That looks legit.

I don't have the best phone, but hopefully this. I haven't bought a new phone a long while, so hopefully.

I love that you practice what you preach.

Yeah, man, you don't need all these phones.

This was done, guys.

That's actually a nice little photo.

Oh my gosh, yes, feed us.

Okay, now, if you really want to get you know, schmancy fancy. You know, I've seen other recipes where you bake it and then you flash, you flash fright at the end, so it gives it a real crispy skin and stuff. So there's a lot of different ways to prepare this. All right, fingers crossed, fingers cross apple sauce. All right, Oh, yes, looking looking look were outside?

Stop saying we outside?

I'm sorry, I'm nervous.

You don't look nervous at all. You look like a chef.

Oh my goodness, even the fly, even we got we got everybody in here trying to get something.

The fly is in here, like yo, Katie in the back, she don't even eat fish, and she says she gonna try this. And when she first saw those, she said, just so you know, I'm not trying that. When oh my goodness, oh sorry, I grabbed.

I should have done it, like if you want to.

I don't think we're gonna need seasoning. Okay, Now I don't know about the cinnamon. Guys, I can smell the cinnamon.

I use my hands when I eat this. You feel me, But you might want to start with your fork. You can take the rosemary out. Man. I feel like all of Portland is on the line right now, all of Portland. They're gonna be like, bro, don't be embarrassing.

Us on here, no man, Okay, here we eat.

Yeah that's cool.

I never wanted someone to sit sit down. Okay, take the lemons off, yeah, okay, take the lemons off.

Lemons off.

Okay.

And if you see how you get tossed, you hit him, you get some juice that comes out of there.

Yeah, is it. It's very seasoned.

It's like hot. Wow, there we go, here's Jay.

Should it be harsh? And imagine he did so well in that kitchen for hours, and I just say, there's a lot of human human on him.

All right, Gee, all right, it's good.

All right, Gee, it's good. But I feel like, is it the cuman or the cinnamon?

Also, be very careful the bones.

Look, I'm hungry.

You made me wait ten years for this food. All right, guys, we're wrapping this episode, but we do have to rape a dish.

Make sure you get some of that inside.

Why is it? Is it different in there? Oh, it's got the garlic and all that. Right, hold on, hold on.

He's trying to make sure his rating goes up. He's like, I don't know, I don't know. Hold on, I think this.

Is mm hmm.

Inside better.

I think it's a cinnamon.

I don't like the cinnamon. I'm a big fan of cinnamon.

Is a cinnamon or the human that you drown?

The fishing also too, you got to see you got this little thing on.

Okay, but we gotta see you your head before we close out. Okay, eat the head.

I'm gonna rate this dish based on the human and the cinnamon.

Seven.

You'll take a seven.

I'll take a seven and the kitchen I never took before.

All right, look at him and try to take a swing back holding I still eat it. I still think it's great. Oh you like did you eat the.

Head and take a little deep buttle meat off the top? Oh?

I thought you just stick it all in your mouth.

All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning into such a delicious episode. This came out perfect me personally. I would go a little lighter on the cuman and the cinnamon.

But other than that, the inside of the fish is phenomenal.

Still would eat this dish. It's still gonna go home.

And make the rest of these filets.

Thanks for tuning in. And where can they keep up with everything?

Johnny at Johnny ray gill on Instagram, Twitter if it still exists at Johnny ray Gill and Cross Season two, February eleventh, and the album Yeah twenty twenty six.

Twenty twenty six, Stay tuned, Peace out, y'all.

Whosh