DETAVIO SAMUELS - Imitate that Omlette

passed away in February. Um. I didn't grow up in the same house with my father, but every time I would go there for the summer, he would have a special meal for me. He knew I loved omelets, and he knew I love seafood, and so he used to make seafood omelets. And so you know, we weren't balling. So it's imitation crab and uh, I've always been everybody got quirks. I have a quirk that's about hot sauce. I really put hot sauce on everything. So we have

a seafood um lit with imitation crab. And of course you gotta have you're not from l a, but you value hot sauce. Oh yeah, yeah. My father is jare making Jamaican. My father is you're making. My best friend is jaremaking when I was telling your brother to Kanye West painting. Um, so, anyways, I've been eating hot stuff my whole life. Okay, okay, so you like ox tails and I do like oxtail, but I'm definitely more of like a jerk chicken jerk Sandman Brown's curry chicken. Okay, okay,

you're speaking my leg right. Maybe we should have made that. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm pretty sure anything Jamaican doesn't fall into the broke Mama's making it. You know, I'm stretching it. Have you? Um? We would literally go have you? Have you spent a lot of time in Jamaica. I haven't been yet. I'm winning from my you know, bank accounts to grow up a little bit. One day we'll go we will go um to dun Riverfall and go crawfish hunting. We let

it going still again, you could do it, broke. We go with the little gun that was made of sticks, and we capture them with our hands or shoot them with crawfish guns, and then come home and cook them. So, yeah, you can do Jamaican fruit broke to what's pretty awesome. So do you want to go ahead and cook off this thish? Yeah, so I'm gonna do it, but really full transparency. We're gonna see how me talking and cooking goes.

But you know, I think you got My family came to the States as on that side, on first generation American born, and Um, they used to work for white people right in their houses, cooking and cleaning. I said all that to say that they were expert cooks. So I had great teachers. I probably haven't cooked this dish probably twenty years. Do you cook at home? I do not. Oh so you're one of those orders. Um, one of those orders. I ran out of time. I can tell you.

I used to cook at home all of the time, and in two thousand and seven I took over the Walmart account. I was running a creative agency, took over the Walmight account. I have not cooked every day since then. Life. It's just been too busy and too crazy as an executive. As an executive, I definitely don't feel like I have time to cook. So what are the ingredients for the dish today? Okay, so butter just because you gotta make sure that the eggs don't stick to the bottom of

the pan. We got a couple of eggs, and then we're just gonna throw imitation crab on it. You know, people could do salt and pepper and cheese however you want to do it. But that's what we got today. And then we got Louisiana, which you'll be able to use. I'm not putting it in there. You're gonna be able to use it. Oh yeah, because I just I just recently did an episode with a Haitian person and they had this stuff called Pickley's and I almost died on

while we were doing it. I couldn't breathe. It's gonna be deal With's choice, alright, So this one is this one? Right, It's totally electric. Put your hand on it. Thank you for that. I feel like we're missing some stuff, like some salt and pepper for you. Yes, you know when I what I was really excited about getting you on the show. I've been asking about you for about three months, I want to say three or four months, and uh, I was really happy to see that you accepted the

opportunity to come. But I was a little nervous because I was like, oh, he's an executive, he went from Stanford, you know, he's you know. And then you had your request about your question about Starbucks and MACHOs, and I was like, oh, no, no, no, he's gonna come into the studio and you know he's gonna be in for brute awakening because you know he may he may have arrived and changed or switched up. But you've been nothing but cool since you came in. So I gotta ask you,

when was the last time you actually ate this dish? Yeah, it's been a long time. I had. The answer is I haven't eaten it since my father cooked it for me. And I'd be shocked if he's cooked it for me within the last ten years. So it's definitely been some time. Definitely.

So take me all the way back, because I don't know how you get to a c suite position of the old TV coming from brokenness and I'm imagining, like I'm gonna be extreme levels of inspired and I'm gonna talk about you all week, So I want to go back to the origination. We could start anywhere around the point of this dish copy. Um, okay, so let me think about it all right. I grew up in Denver, Colorado, in the town called mom Bello. Mam Bello isn't all

black mostly black. I remember my classes where probably they felt like they were ninety eight percent black and brown. There was two white people in my class, and I still remember their names, Sarah Cannolson Paula, and I have a terrible memory, so the fact that I remember them just goes to show. It was like two um long story short. My brother gets ready to graduate from high school. He's on his way to college, and I went to go visit a friend of mine and on the way home,

I'm riding my bike. My bike tires pop and I end up having to walk my bike home. I get jumped by a couple of crips on the way home. I literally think that they are going to take my life. I remember like a four by four and they're like, go get that four by four out out the grass and I ran and my brother's, uh, my brother's best friend was like two blocks down and I run with all my might get to the door. I'm knocking and

knocking waiting for someone to come. No one comes. I turned around like, oh, it's about to be a no one is there, and uh, I thank god. I run home. I'm in tears. My mom sends me to my father's house for the summer, and when I come back, I'm in the suburbs. Um. Now that I'm in the suburbs, my life is completely different. Um. The environment is different, the quality of education is different. And that's when I learned the power of your environment and the power of education.

And so with that, you know, I'm playing sports. My grades, I wasn't getting in talented, but my grades were going from aids two these two sees two these. Now that I'm in the suburbs, I'm back to being in a student You don't think it was the fact that you were under your dad's rain. You think it was just the environment. I'm not trying to take away from mom or da with my dad for three months. Man. She sent me there for three months for the summer, and then when I came back, I was in a whole

different school and a whole different environment. For that, I've always given my mom all the credit and all the love, because with other sacrifices she made to make that happen were the ones that fundamentally changed my life. Um, and so grateful for her and all that she's ever done, and so in that. Now I'm in school in the suburbs. Uh, let's see. I end up doing very well on my P S A T s UM. With that, I get into probably twenty schools. Because we were broke, I didn't

apply to any of them. The only schools I didn't get into are the ones that made me pay. Who made me pay? So I can call him out right now. Georgetown tried to make me pay. Yep, Nope, that was a problem. You want to put this in this bowl? Uh? Do you see schools? My dream school was, you see San Diego. I was actually rapping at the time. I can ramble f y, I said, you just don't have to tell me what you're talking O. Um. I was rapping at the time. We were recording in Lahoya, California,

and I fell in love with San Diego. To San Diego became the school I wanted to go to anyway, did you see? Schools wouldn't let me in without paying, and we didn't have the money to pay, so I didn't do it. How do the schools I get into? I decided my top four where Seaton Hall More House, Emory and Duke. Never went to Seaton Hall, crossed that off the list. UM went to see Emery, went to see more House, and then when I stepped on Duke, it was like, Yeah, the skies opened up. The sunshine

guy said this is where you're supposed to be. UM. So I ended up going to Duke University. Best decision I could have ever made in my life. Do you think that is what made your trajectory to where you're at now? Without question? I didn't know at the time the Duke was as good of a school as it was. UM. Neither one of my parents stressed me about college school. They knew I was gonna go. I was a good student,

and so they just kind of let me be. When I get in the Duke, the first month US news and reports come out with the number three school in the nation, I'm blown away. I'm like, how on earth the number three school in the nations? UM, with that probably make the next second best decision I've ever made, The next best decision ever made, which is I decide

the pleasure of fraternity cap out aside and one. I'm a huge believer in Kappa as an organization, but there's something that is so special about the chapter of men that I became fraternal with, and they become they became my brothers, my coaches, my mentors, my advisors, and so through them, you know, none of my parents had done business, none of my parents had done anything that I'm doing. But through Kappa, I now have people who maybe five years ahead of me, but they can guide me and

coach me. Um. So anyways, have a phenomenal run a duke mostly party and step shows. Uh uh, enjoying life and let's see what's the next big moment that happens. The next big moment for me a second semester senior year, two big things happened in my life. Um. One, I take a marketing course, and throughout all of my time, I was always relatively good at school. Um Honestly, even if dude like I never bought books, I could show

up at class. I only went to school on like Tuesdays and Thursdays and get a B plus right left with the three three, but did very little work. Again, party, step shows, all those things. So you're like a fast learner. Yeah, you can say. I used to say I'm not smart, but I'm bright, Like I could pick things up relatively quickly, sit in the classroom and listen to the teacher. Pick it up and be good. When I took this marketing course, it was the first time, like my soul had ever

been lit on fire for a subject. I wanted to know everything about marketing. The mental acrobatics it takes to get someone to want something by something that they didn't know they wanted was so intriguing to me. I discovered this career called advert rising. Um. So, anyways, at that point in time, I decide I want to be a CMO. Most cmos. CMO is a chief marketing officer, thank you.

Chief marketing officer most cmos UM went to business school and had NBA's and so I started saying, oh, I gotta go get my m b A. So let me pause there really quickly before Let's see January of that same year. So this is while I'm in that class, we get in this massive fight Mr. Kappa's versus Alpha's. Me and my boy kind of get into it with some guys in the party. It turns out to be this massive fight all across Dukes what's what's called West Campus their main campus. UM, I don't know what it

was thirty on thirty it was crazy. Cops come from everywhere, maze it was horrible again. Um on the way home, I'm so frustrated with the way the police had handled the situation. I was the president of n PHC, which is the National Paneltic Group, meaning all the lot of Greek organizations. I was frustrated that they had led a group that the issue wasn't the ouphice on my campus, if the alpice came from another campus. I was frustrated that they had let this happen with these people and

that they were taking it out on us. So I go and I have one of my line brothers take me to the police station. I go into the police station and say, look, it's my senior year. I don't want any beef. I just want to put something on record so that me and the police get into it again. We have a record that there's been previous interactions. They never take my report. They end up delivering a bunch of paperwork which ends up being felonies and missing was

inciting a riot, resisting arrest, refusing to disperse. Right, So, my senior year, the two things that are happening is I have both found something that has set my soul on fire and I want to do And I'm at the same time fighting for my life in my career while at Duke because of the citations they gave me. I'm not only finding it at Duke, but I'm fighting it in Durham. So I end up fighting to stay at Duke so I can graduate. Um. The reason I graduated and was able to do that is because again

my chapter Kareem Cook Um big Bros. Came in, talked to the police, work with Duke, and ended up saving my career. So I ended up graduating from Duke and at the same time I couldn't do the same thing on the Duham side. Did you want to put that up before you put it? I don't really know what you're thinking. I think you should. I'm trying. I'm trying to cook and talk. You know, I ain't never had to cook, talk and beyond camera. And it's a long story. I can cut this story short. I tell you I

can ramble long story short. Um. They saved me. UM. I end up pleading no contest at that and Dunham, and so I end up getting like a hundred hours of community service UM and get out of it. The key piece there's I'm applying to jobs with the record um in two thousand and two, which was like a recession, which made it incredibly difficult to get work, incredibly difficult to get a job. Um My whole time I was

at Duke, I worked at Fuqual School of Business. That's an incredible black woman, Liz Riley, who was the head of admissions there, Sharon Thompson her number two. They give me a job and a career management center. So my first job by the college is working at the career management center. Just go ahead, sorry, but I'm just curious. When all this was going on with with the with them putting felonies and all this stuff, was there a part of you that felt like quitting or were you emotional?

Like I would love to know what your state of being was. Yeah, it was incredibly difficult. But and I'm not gonna tell somebody else's story, but it just so happened that one of my other fraternity brothers, who was one of my best friends, was also in trouble with the police, and so we were going through it at the same time, and we were roommates, and so the benefit that I had was that I was not doing

it on my own. It was he and I were both fighting for our lives at the same time, which is one of the reasons why we are as close

as we are today. Do you feel like, and I don't want to get too far off, but do you feel like it makes you look at the police a certain way or do you have an emotional side to that, because that could have that could have you know, transitioned your life into a completely different direction, like they didn't even realize the damage that they were about to cause for something that's going to Duke, you know, sure, Um, yes, but I don't know if there's any different than what

I think any other you know, black male, black female kind of deals with you know what I mean. I think we all so many of us have our own stories, you know what I mean? Um, but yeah, of course, Um it was impactful and impactful for the rest of my life. Um. How's that looking now that you don't have to cut it up? And that looks good? I'm trying to help you. You know what, though, So you you graduate from Duke, graduate from Duke, you you continue

on at Stanford. Well, I end up working at the Career Management Center Duke for two years, apply to business school, end up getting in the Stanford, which is a blessing. Did you have to pay for it? Yeah? Yeah, Stanford was two years, a hundred and twenty five dollars. You still all the money? Yeah? When I graduated from Duke and Stanford collectively over a hundred and fifty thousand dollars and student loan debt. Do you think it was worth that? I have to ask do you think it was worth

the every penning? Okay? And why do you say it was worth every pang? When I was working in a career management center Duke, I was making twenty nine thousand dollars a year. When I come out of Stanford working at Johnson and Johnson, I'm making nine and that's your start. I tripled my salary in two years, okay, um, And then it's just the symbols, right. So as I'm applying for jobs to get out of Stanford, people are saying

to me, it's just different. You know, if you don't know what it's like until you're on the other side. But people are saying, from the top banks and from the top consulting companies, clearly you can do the job. We just need to make sure your cultural fit. I couldn't do the job I've been working in a career management. What are they basing it on the name symbols? Symbols opened up so many doors for me and continue to open up doors for me. So because of that, without question,

is worth it. Yeah, I always feel like when when at least, I mean, I'm a college dropout, but I used to always I'm not I'm not saying it's a good thing, but but I used to always say that if I went to school, I would only want to go to an Ivy League school because I knew that my peers that went to that school came from one economic different economic background, and I knew that their roller decks alone in that relationship alone would help me get

to where I want to be. Unfortunately, you know, I didn't have like the academia to support it, but you know it was, you know, in my next lifetime, like that would be a dream of mine, but I I didn't get to get the opportunity. So it's cool to see here you say that that played a huge role, didn't help you in any way get to some of your more I would say, you're like when you were at I one, then you were the president. You were the president? Correct? Did any of those relationships help you

get there? Or was it just the Stanford? So what I say is, so I'm at I'm gonna go the job before I won. So I'm at Johnson and Johnson doing global marketing, I decide I want to do advertising. It just so happens that one of my fraternity brothers from Duke works at the number one black owned multicultural agency in the nation, and they were looking for someone who had an MBA in my skill set. And so the whole reason I get my next job at Global

HU is because I went to undergrad. Literally the guy pledged me um and so that's how I end up getting the job. While I'm there, I get promoted every year for probably six seven years in a row um. And so that's how kind of my ascent really happens kind of quickly. So by the time I meet Cathy Hughes and Alfred liggn Is an interactive one, I was already a president, and so they hired me on as a president. You're young at that point, why don't you

like it? Became my first president at thirty, I probably became president of thirty and then I went to work for Cathy Hughes, I think when I was thirty three, And if you don't mind me asking, like what would a salary of a president be at that age? Like your thirty year you done me to tell people that I was making Okay, I mean I'm trying to We're trying to get the skinny you know, inspirers, inspir Okay. So um, I came out of Stanford making ninety five By the time I left Global Hue, I was making

four and twenty five thousand dollars in salary. You hit that I need to were policy to broken up college degree right now. It's hard to get into Stanford after Like if I wanted to go right now, I couldn't, right because there's like too much real world experience, right, Yeah, you have to do more of like an executive program. Yeah yeah, yeah, I heard about that because I remember one time I tried to get into Harvard. Like don't ask me why I tried, but hey, I wasn't gonna

shume my shot. But they had said, like if you were an entrepreneur for a certain amount of years, you could only get into the executive program. Yeah, like the daytime program is usually for people who have been out of school four years, like four years of the average, so call it to the six So as long as you've been working more than six and you probably, but it doesn't give you the same credibility as someone like you, right,

I think it gives you the credibility. I think what you miss is that point that you were talking earlier about, like the importance of the network. And so when you're in school every day with these folks for two years, I think I think it's different than when you see each other only on the weekends. Right, And at Stanford, like there was just this belief that we were all

gonna win. And um literally I would walk into finals and my classmates would be handing out notes saying, oh, I made notes that they're gonna help us all crush the test and they pass it out to you. When you walked into there was no like, there was no competition. Was the Blacks or was this a monst all? The way Stanford moved? It was the way Stanford Business School moved. And now I don't know how the real the other schools do it, but I can't imagine. Wow, what an

experience you maybe want to go to school. So you're thirty, you're you're clearing that much money, Which that's all Don Coleman. So again Don Coleman for Don Coleman, Alan Pugh, Rob Chavis, Civil Chavis promoted me every year for six or seven years. And I remember, and I give Don Coleman so much credit. I don't know. I might have been making to fifty a year and I was running the Detroit office and

I want in Detroit. Yeah, you were living like a real I can only imagine what you were doing in Detroit. You were walking, were you flossy or were you just regularly? Yeah? I've always been the same this this Detroit is crazy. To make that much money in Detroit, yeah, I wouldn't be like a real boss. Yeah it was great. Did you want to buy a whole couple of blocks? Like you know, I'll take this block. Don't worry about these buildings just because anywhere you can buy a bunch of

blocks is not somewhere where you want to live. You can do it. We are you in Detroit for seven years? Wow? So do you still go back and visit? I do I still have property there? You still have friends there? Why am I not surprised. How much property do you have? Just one? There's a In two thousand and seven they opened up a Western Book Cadillac. It had been used to be one of the tallest buildings I think in Detroit are definitely in the us UM and had been

dilapidated for twenty thirty years. They brought it back and they had a Western hotel in the bottom and condos at the top. So you have a you have a place in downtown Detroit down Do you know how much of the value is in downtown Detroit right now on the market right now, if anybody wants to buy, anybody wants to buy, Downtown Detroit is very, very pricing now it's it's it can give Kelly a run for its

money right now. That property has at least I mean at one point in time, and they doubled in price. It's kind of come down a little bit since COVID, but now it's still it's still like I want to check that out. And I'll tell you, um walk into the New York office one time and Don Coleman hands me an envelope, like, what's this hands man envelope? I

opened it up. Your new salary. Fo. I don't think I ever made a salary with a three in it like this black man just knew and believed in me so much that he almost doubled my salary um without me even asking. All right, so that's why you gotta work for black folks. No, I mean, look, did you purposely choose to work for black folks or did you? Oh you did? It was a choice, it was. It wasn't conscious before. But look, here's the difference. I'm at

Johnson and Johnson, and um, they won't promote me. And when I asked my boss why they won't promote me, he tells me, I can't even tell you because if you the reasons they don't want to promote you are the same reasons you're great, and I don't want to dem your life. And so that told me who I am doesn't work in this space. Right. Um? So then as as global he was recruiting me, I'm now walking into an advertising agency in Detroit that feel like Boomerang.

It ain't nothing but twenty five year old, twenty six year old black, brown yellow like you on the black side. They pop in jay Z and Notorious b I G. You move over to the Latin next side, they saw some like it was just such an energy and um, when you compare that to the corporate world, it was like, oh, this is where I'm supposed to be. And then from that day on, I worked at black owned company since two thousand and seven. So where does revolt in yep? Um?

So my father dies February uh, COVID hits March of um uh. And at that point in time, I was in final rounds with Revolts. So I don't know if you want to go backwards, but um, I end up getting the offer in April of um decide to make the jump and start working there jume, which is right

after George Florid passed. Wow, and where were you living at the time, in New York York And then to work for a revolt you had to move to l A. I did, but didn't meaning it was right now, No, but it was COVID, so nobody cared where you lived, right, But it was COVID in New York, and New York was terrible, like it was the hot spot ambulances going on. Like whenever I meet people who like, don't believe COVID was was a real thing. I'm like, where were you living?

Because where I was living in wasdies everywhere right there had bodies stacked up by her, exact bodies. They had eighteen wheelers, like it was crazy. And so for me, it was just like, why am I here revolts in l A. At some point in time, I'm going to have to be in l A. L A is probably gonna be a much healthier place for me, and so I chose to make the move, and definitely one of the best decisions I made. Yeah, much healthier than I would have been staying in New York. Really, I missed

the Chinese food of Org okay, and the pizza. To be honest, I do like when my brother, my brother flies in, I'm like, brings some eggirls, girls and like just bring up and I'm like, throw me a bag of egg rolls, and I'm like, yeah, I haven't been being on Chinese food. And I love New York pizza. Yeah there's nothing like it. Even the ones in l A that called themselves New York Pizza ain't quite right.

So I know we're sortm time, So we're gonna have to split this omelets and then um uh, look, first of all, can I get halfway credit for making a decent looking I'm like, while talking, I know I went on a long story, but it's because I was multitask. It looks very good. I'm very proud of you. Thank you, qu Um. I haven't had imitation. The last time I had imitation crab meat was so long ago. I remember

when I was young. I loved the taste of it, and I begged my dad to buy me a bag of imitation crabby that calls the scene and he was like, Okay, if I buy it, you gotta eat the whole thing. Tonight was like, sure, no problem dead And let's just say I never liked imitation crappy, Okay, Like to this day, I fear it because, well, we're about to see how We're about to see if we can change that anxious

amount of hot sauce. Yeah. I hope you can make it through because I've seen people on the show do what you just did and drown it in hot sauce and then they end up choking. You don't even you don't even know this that I did it, okay, because for the for everyone that's listening, he he bathed it in hot sauce. So it looks I can't believe that looks red. It looks like it's a bloody omelet. I can't believe You've got me to tell people my salary. Yeah,

that's good. You know what I feel like, you know, I'm I'm thirty, I'm thirty eight. Um, I can honestly say I've never seen that type of money, you know, manifest Manifest. Who knows, maybe one day, but I think it's an incredible feat When you come from humble beginnings. And we've talked before taping about like, you know, when you come from humble beginnings, do you ever feel like an imposture? Do you ever feel like when is the gig up? And for me, I faced that every day.

Maybe that's why don't move in the same circles. Plus it's very hard for me to have the network that you know, I didn't go to school, so I have a couple of entrepreneur friends that do very well. Um, but every time I do something, I still have that little person that's like, you know, when is it? When is the when am I going to be exposed for this? You know, fraudulent somehow miracle opportunity that happens, you know,

what's crazy is um. Imposter syndrome is something that minorities, women typically marginalized people face, right, and we'll tell each other we gotta fake it till you make it. Um

the crazy pieces. M Oftentimes our counterparts are white counterparts who may be less quality, fied, have less hustle, never have that feeling, you know what I mean, And so um, it's only in our culture, and it's only in our world where we feel like, um, hey, we believe that the world is a meritocracy and if we didn't earn that specific thing, then we're not ready. So many people are handed opportunities because of privilege, and they never feel

like we do, you know what I mean. So for me, it's up to us to fake it till we make it, find our way to get past that hurdle so that we can actually be who the heck we're supposed to be. Yeah, when I look at people like Kanye or Kye or anyone that's making it or painting the world that they feel that they should be living in, I have so much admiration because it takes a certain level of confidence. I know some people say that Kanye has mental health

issues or what have you. I personally don't feel like he has mental health. I just think he's borderline genius. And I say that because I remember years and years ago I went to an album released party of his and he was like interning to learn fashion, and everyone in the crowd couldn't make sense of anything he's talking about. And I was like, you know what, I just think he's a little too smart for everybody right now, you know.

And but I think there's a certain level of confidence, Like when you look at Ditty and you look at all these people, it's like they had a level of I tell people like, I'm a little crazy. I'm crazy because I believe that I can take some crazy idea of mine and bring it to life. You know, that's exactly. But um, but when I see them, they don't seem to show that level of fear like that. I internally had the imposters, which is the first time I've ever

heard that term. Um, but you you've never experienced every promotion, every new job. Um, it's gonna come again. You just gotta fake it till you make it. You gotta push past. That's my belief. I also just believe, as a man of God who's very much into my faith that life is so much about the faith walk. And so while I may feel this way, if I believe I was called to do something else, then I just have to have the faith to keep walking. And so for me,

it's okay to have them. Here's what I want to say. Emotions are data, not directions. And so you might feel like you aren't capable, you might feel like you're not qualified, but that's not necessary. Those just emotions. Emotions are data, not directions, not directions. I like that. I like that. So do you have a fun um sy uh? Oh? My ditty stories are fun um. But here's what I'll tell you. Here's what I'll tell you about. What's really amazing about working UM with Shaun comes Um our chairman

one Um. Like everything that you're just talking about imposter syndrome, Like you can't work for him and have that He makes you feel like you can run through every single wall, no matter if it's made of concrete, titanium, no matter what it is. When you deal with a man like Shaan Komb, he only operates in magnitude right. He wants to be the first. The biggest about everything that you see about him is true, and so he pushes you to dream the impossible, but then he puts the battery

in your back to go get it. And um, that is such a special and an amazing feeling. And then the other thing that I think, um, that Sean Combs has done for me is like permission to not only be fearless, but to be like my authentic self, Permission

to be bold, permission to be courageous. Um. So much of what I do right now is um standing in our marketplace, championing black culture, championing black people, and it's and the reason I'm able to do that is because there is a earthly king on top who is pushing me to do it every single day and to do it in a way that is authentic to myself and in a way that is authentic to the culture. And that is such a special, special thing. So I'm grateful.

This is, you know, again, one of the best decisions I would have ever made in my life. Um, working for Shaan Combs, and um, yeah, he's a unique He's a unique leader, creative, visionary, icon, all those things. Um, what he does for me personally is really really special. And as CEO of a media empire and I've asked you off golf camera, off recording. UM, I feel like there's there's an obvious pressure when you're doing any type of media's eyeballs, how many people are watching? How many views?

You know, you're you're you're betting against eyeballs. And we know as a culture, eyeballs goes to primarily, and I hate to say it, but negative content, you know, sexual content, violent content, That's what gets the eyeballs, That's what gets trending, that's what gets views. How do you deliver feel good culture for our culture because the majority of our culture

isn't what is portrayed. You know, there's Uh, I'm not saying abundance of black executives or people of power, but I'm saying that there's a lot of positive conversation that's happening outside of drug, sex and violence. How do you find the balance of doing the I guess the I don't want to say bad imagery, but how do you find the balance of do you how to understand? I don't know how to form the question. I got you,

I got you? Um, First of all, hip hop is hip hop, so it's gonna be what it's gonna be. And so if you are a company with hip hop at its core, you're gonna have the core elements of hip hop as a part of your storytelling. I think for us, it's just really important to also have that balance. UM, And what we know about hip hop is that when hip hop talks, the world moves. The problem is people only hand hip hop the microphone and they want to

talk about sex, money, drugs, and music. We hand hip hop the microphone and let them talk about mental health and financial literacy and uplifting black women, do you know what I mean? So we can take the same um, the same core, the same anchor, and redeploy it in different ways. And so so much of what we're doing, the work that I'm excited about is about feeding black people and for nation and education, but wrapping it up

in a hip hop culturally relevant, cultural lifestyle packaging. And so we kind of talked about this, but like one of my favorite ideas is the show we have with these young men from Earn Your Leisure who are amazing

Try and rashad Um. They have the dopest financial wealth empowerment platform for the culture that exists, and we have a show what them called Assets over Liabilities and assets over liabilities is essentially almost like a yeo MTV Cribs reboot, um, But yes, Like while you see the chains and the cars and the house, like the whole conversation is anchored and how did you build wealth? What is your next investment?

What is your first investment? And so you can take that same hip hop You can take Rick Ross and have him teach people about financial wealth. You can take g Herbo and have him teach people about mental wellness, right um. And so for me, I think it's just about leveraging the same way. We have the most powerful

weapon on the planet, which is hip hop. Hip Hop is the number one most listen to music around the globe, right, it drives the culture, and so we're also going to use that that weapon to drive the culture for good. I think that's a key piece of it. Yeah. I feel like people of color, black people, people that are in underserved communities are so hungry for that knowledge like once credit. You know, like when I was growing up,

my parents didn't have the conversation of credit. I didn't learn about credit or taxes until I got like leans on all my stuff, you know. Yeah, I'm like trying to apply for apartment with credit like what you know? Um, And now we're in a world where you have, like you said, earn your leisure and you have social media and you have these little clips that are like you know, real estate over cars and who needs When was the

last time jay z war chain? You know? And I feel like we're in an incredible place now because you no longer have to rely on your parents. Unfortunately that were maybe they weren't fortunate enough to come across this information, you know when they had us you know. Yeah, the problem is no one is talking to us in our language, right, Like, Um, all of content just typically green lipped by people who don't look like us, and so then they don't have

our perspective or our lens and our gaze. And so is the information out there, sure, but is it presented in a way um that some of our people who couldn't catch it in those ways, UM, can catch it in the way that is relevant to them. And that's what we spend our time doing. Yeah, so I'm going to ask you something. I hope you can share this with us from a black media company perspective. You're dealing You're dealing with a lot of I don't know if

it's white media or you know, big corporations. What would you say is the biggest challenge in that industry that you're going up against as a black owned like specifically as black owned, what would you say is the biggest challenge. Yeah, So, look, there's a bunch of different valuations about how big the total advertising market is. But for the purpose of this conversation, let's say it's two hundred and fifty billion dollars is right.

Out of that two hundred and fifty billion dollars, black owned media gets one percent, So that's two point five billion dollars. Right. So then when you go work with big brands, they don't change their expectations about the quality of work or what you can deliver based on the fact that you're making one percent of the money. Right,

They have those same expectations. And so our biggest challenge has been UM getting advertisers and brands to see us, getting them to unlock the dollars so that we can produce the content that we know that our culture needs and revote has been UM a force to be reckoned with, I would say over the last two years in terms of helping brands understand that not only do they have UM a social responsibility to UM spend more with black

owned media, but that the world has changed. Like back in the days, you used to be able to just make good products and people would pick you UM. Now you have to have good products and purpose, or good products and values, and those values have to be flushed all the way through your business model. And so the way I start to learn that lesson as I'm at a conference and I'm looking at five tables of bottled water,

and the woman walks up to me. As I'm trying to choose which bottle of woman get, she says, don't get that bottled water. That's Betsy Devoces water. Right, all water isn't created equal because the person on top of that does not have your values. And so so much of what we're doing is trying to get brands to understand you might have a great product, but people also care about your values. Your investors care about your values, your employees care about your values, and your consumers care

about your values. And then one of the number, you know, top things that they care about is how brands are dealing with racial equity and racial injustice. And so we just keep ringing that alarm, helping brands understand that their job has changed. No longer do you just get to hit your numbers, but now you've got to hit your numbers and help create the world that your consumers and investors want to live in. UM. And through that, we've

been very successful at unlocking dollars. The key last pieces that I want to say about that, but because I've been doing this for ten fifteen years and it's never worked, when George Floyd was murdered, it shifted the algorithm. And so once you have that and everybody is on pause, and now we can all see that maybe this thing called systemic racism really does exist. UM, that opens the

door for these new conversations. And so look, we've got great brand partners, you know, Target, State Farm, Pepsi, UM, McDonald's, Cadillac, UM, brands who are truly invested in us because they're invested in our culture and our community. And we just keep looking for partners like that because they enabled us to do the great work that we volt is trying to do. Now, I'm so glad you mentioned that. Guys, We're gonna go over time. I'm just gonna say it, so and you

didn't need that. I'm lit first before, just to make sure. Let me make sure she's not gonna that. Okay, Okay, let me try and you sink a big bite too, are we? Okay? Is not doing so? And I don't eat a lot of imitation crab thirty years ago, thirty year old resciping. Okay, you don't have to, but you know what it is, your wealth of knowledge. Um, the omelet is really good. I'm not gonna lie. I will

finish the omelet everybody. Um, But while I have you here, Um, I've had different influencers come on the show and they all said that after the George Floyd situation happened, all of the advertisers, you know, they make their money from advertising, we're seeking them out and they made the most money

they had ever made during that error. Is there a part of you that's like a love hate relationship with that where it's like, Wow, we waited all this time and it took this huge, you know, event to happen for us to actually get a bump. And do you see a bump in advertising now? Is it more than one percent? Yeah? So essentially what happened is last year in March, and I'll give Byron Allen um credit. Byron

Allen starts suing companies for being racist. That creates this wave um where brands become more afraid of the PR crisis UM than they do of making commitments to black media. So what they all start doing is making commitments to sound like black media is only one percent of our spend, We're gonna take it to two percent of our spend next year and then three, four or five percent. And so what's happening in my market right now is I'm in a market that is growing for the five x

over the course of the next four years. Black owned media is now growing like a tech stock, which is why you see us being able to do all of the things that we do Revolt had you know. Look, I've set these numbers publicly so I can say them here. Um. Last year advertising business grew three x, my digital advertising business grew five x. Are you publicly public profits as a CEO or or no. I know that I'm asking

very invasive question. The real answer to that is always what you choose to negotiate and where you put value right. So the core three things that I think that as a CEO you're negotiating a salary, bonus and equity, and everybody's gonna choose which one is more. I have a feeling I know which way you do. I really genuinely enjoyed having you here because you expose like so many different facets that I'm not even used to having on

this show, from education and the values there. Um. There was one other questions I had that was gonna I'm gonna try to smack me. Yeah, you know what, it's It's good because it's like we're learning so much. Oh, that's what I wanted to say. You came from advertising and then you're the CEO revolt. You know, from a perspective like after hearing your story, makes perfect sense how they chose me and why they chose you because you're like the triple threat. You're like the girl like ca

seing dance model. You know, like you couldn't do it all because you understand the language of the advertising perspective and you understand the language you know, the media side. So you're you, Hey, I appreciate um the way you said that, and thank you, honored um. But you literally, like any interview that I'm in, that's exactly what I would say that what has made me unique is that I started on the client side, that Johnson and Johnson, and so I have an inkling of what brands and

advertisers want. Then I went to the creative agency side and learned the power of ideas and creative content. And then I want to work for Cathy Hughes where she gave me her and Alfred Ligganns gave me a digital media business to run. I never ran digital, didn't know how to run. They gave me digital business to run. I never had no clue what I was doing. But then I learned digital and I learned media, and so yes, now I get to see the client perspective, the advertising

agency perspective, and the media perspective. And I believe that that lens is what makes my lens unique from others. Yeah. Now, you being young, you you have a wealth of experience, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't really matter. But do you ever feel that you're being young has had its hindrances, Like for sure, like what share? Yeah, the whole time? Um, so you have to imagine, um, you know, and these titles will mean nothing. Um. But I probably became a

group account director at the agency at twenty six. Again, I became the president of an agency at thirty UM. And you have to imagine that a lot of the people who worked for me were older, with a lot or lived experience in the space, and so figuring out how to be a leader who um could rally people who were younger but most importantly older to respect you enough to follow. For me, leadership is about followership, right, So earning followship as a young kid was really difficult.

And then UM, walking into clients and convincing them that they should give you tens of millions of dollars to make commercials and that you were the leader to help

drive that business also a very UM difficult thing. And then the other piece that I'll say is internally, UM, there's always this question of like what your motivation is, because when people see you move up the chain as quickly as I was fortunate enough to do, UM, there's always this idea that you're not really here for the business. You're just here for yourself. Oh yeah, yeah, like you're not a life person, your temporary yeah exactly. And so again,

earning followership in that reality was really difficult. In fact, even be doing things like this and being on this one, the full podcast that you have is a newer thing for me because in order to lead, in order to prove to people that I wasn't there just to build my brand, I stood in the background and pushed everybody ahead. Right. It's not until you know, last year where I started doing more to kind of step into the light. And honestly don't love it, but I think it's part of

the assignment. And when you're the CEO of a brand, you have to be the face of a brand. But I spent my entire career hiding in the back so that my teams knew that they were the most important thing, and that the work was the most important thing, and that it wasn't about building my personal brand. Wow wow, So I'm um. So when it comes to leading a team, um, and coming from advertising, I always tell people, I mean, I've worked for myself for abundance of years, and I

always say people underestimate sales, financial literacy and sales. You know, when you're running a business, everyone, no matter how big the businesses, there's no cash flow problem. So I can tell you I've seen all types of businesses, big and small. Cash flow plays a critical role in whether they stay alive month of money. But one thing people always look down their nose on and sales. How much of your role would you say the ability to sell played a huge,

like a role in it. I don't really know, but I think that if you're an entrepreneur, the number one thing you're doing is selling. I spend all of my time selling to investors, trying to unlock hundreds of millions of dollars so that we can tell black stories that

have not been told. I spent all of my time sitting with brands and advertisers trying to unlock millions of dollars so that we can keep the company open, feed families and give UM people of color in this wonderfully diverse group of company that we have UM, so that they can feed their families and eat and we can grow the business. I spend all of my time selling to the media, telling our stories so that people are paying attention to the work. That it's all sales in

my opinion, yeah, yeah, I agree. Agree. I'm so glad you said that, because I feel like people under they don't talk about it, and it's all sales. It's all sales. You could have the best business on the planet. But if you can't tell that story, if you can't get people excited about the work that you're doing, um a little flounder, right, you won't be able to unlock the dollars that you need for the mission that you're trying

to accomplish. Now, you sell the investors, correct. So when you you run a team, I try I'm trying to imagine what a day in the life of you is. I stopped your Instagram. Okay, so I know you swim in the morning like I did the cybers talking like how girls do it. I've been I've been talking for about three months okay, okay, so um, so when you're running a team, um, and I'm just trying to envision your life because I've been trying to do it for

a couple of months now. So besides the swimming in the mornings, which you seem to be very passionate about, um, do you have to like does your advertising team have to come to you in this is how much you sold? And you're like, you better sell it better? You know, we're having a problem with I don't want say Target because Target has definitely been stepping up their game, but like some advertiser that's like hard to close. Do you like stepping in like micromanage a little bit? I don't

want to say micromanagement, not a micromanager. Or do you like say something like is there like a text or something I want to know? In general? The way that I would say it is, um, I try to build empowered teams. I'm super and have empowered leaders, and I'm super passionate about that for all people of all colors and all walks of life. But I'm specifically passionate about it for people of color and women because oftentimes where when they're in these other companies, they don't get to

take their shot. You don't know if your ideas are good if no one ever lets you get your idea off the ground. And so I try to create a space that gives people for the ground to kind of understand what they're capable of. And so I'm blessed. We have an incredible sales leader at Revolting name Mike Roach. He and his team are doing a phenomenal job. And so I stay out of Mike's business. Mike lets me know when he needs me, if he needs me, if it's a CEO, the CEO conversation that has to be had.

If it's a CMO this, you know, CEO conversation that needs to be had, he'll call me big pitches, He'll call me. He also knows that I have lots of relationships on that side, so they are potentially doors I can help him get into. But that team is doing what they're doing, and I will take zero of their credit. They're phenomenal. So my last question and then we'll I'm gonna ask you many questions once we're done. Um, you

have a hundred I would say hundred staff. I'm assuming, right, Okay, Um, out of all little staff, how many would you say have a college degree? I don't know because I've never looked at it. But here's what I'll say. I said all the time that revolt is streets and sweets. We have people who sweets, meaning like the boardroom, some people

who may become from more of my background. Right, So you've got Um, when I look at my executive team, you've got people from Harvard and Stanford and Duke and U. C. L a UM. But you also have people who never graduated from college. You also have people who sold drugs before this. You also have people who came from the nightlife, and I think, or I believe and I know that what makes for VOTES special is that we are figuring

out that balance every day. There's a lot of companies who are trying to do work for the culture and they're just sweets. There's a lot of people are trying to do work for the culture and they're just streets. It is this combination of streets and sweets UM that makes us unique and special. And so I don't know about what it is throughout the entire organization. Basically, I'm glad to know that there's opportunities for us regular folks

guys out there. Look our chief brand Officer, Dion um Graham, who is UM one of my closest business partners on this brand. Dion dropped out of college. UM. You know, he'll tell his story. Doon dropped out of college to sell drugs, went into the nightlife, started working for Shanky's our cheap brand officer. Right. And so for us, it is not about UM. It does not have to be about education. It's about your taste, profile, who you are,

the work you're trying to do. Are you committed to this mission where we're trying to shift in there that for black people globally, Um, do you have a lived experience that can help us move this business in a phenomenal way. And some of those people are gonna go to Harvard or have gone to Harvard, and some of them would have never seen a college campus in their life. Right, Yeah, Yeah, I love it. I love it. I'm so glad that you came out because I was I was like, I

don't know if he's gonna do it. Then I was self conscious of our studio. I'm so so relieved to have met you again. From the stalking of the profiles to the titles, it was it was a bit of a roller coaster for me. And I'm so happy to hear that did he sounds exactly like what I've imagined him to be. I'm sure. I'm sure there's a Bravado that I've also imagined. You know, when I was young, I remember always saying, I want to be a mobile, I want to be like Diddy. I want to be

like Russell Simmons. You know, they would wear these white suits, and you know, I just I always thought they were just so impressive. And I've bumped into Diddy in l A when I was younger, and I was like, oh, I'm not big enough to meet him yet, so you know when I thought, well, you know, work with him or what have you. Um, but it's great to hear that.

You know, Revolt has done what it's done, and Diddy has done what he's done, and you have done what you've done, and it's amazing and impressive that you came from humble beginnings and here you are one of the top young executives. Thank you for that, young credit, young young Well, thank you for joining me on another episode of Eating wall Bro. Please feel free to come by and eat real Jamaican food with me and not invitation crab homelets. I want to say thank you for having me.

I think, Um, for me, this conversation is refreshing. It's like you get tons of interviews and you never know what the conversation is going to be. But I definitely think we had a fresh conversation. I think, um, even for me. Right, I'm here to serve, but I think that this platform also gives me an opportunity to say things that I don't get to say in other places. Literally, you got my salary on my mouth breast beyond that, you just gave me the opportunity to say things that

I don't always get to say. And so um sharing you on celebrating you, love the studio, love with your building. Keep going, Queen, We're here to help. Thank you. I appreciate you saw. Maybe we'll be on Revolt one day. Okay, you know, maybe you never know. All Right, Piece out y'all for more eating while broke from I Heart Radio and The Black Effect, Visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.