Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke. I'm your host, Colleen Witt, and today we have very special guests Charlemagne the God in the building.
Y'all, Queen Wit, what's happening?
What's going on? How do you feel?
Charlemagne the God also known as hip Hop's Howard Starn really, best selling author of books Black Privilege, Shook One, and most recently, Get Honest or Die Lion Why small Talk Sucks. In addition to all these accolades, you have invested close to thirty years in the radio broadcasting industry. You're the founder of the Black Effect podcast network.
Where you can listen to Eating whild Broke, where.
You can which you yourself is literally the only reason why we're able to do this interview. In addition to all that, you are the creative of Black Privileged Publishing. I read this quote. I was hanging out at my dad's apartment. He had this quote on the wall and I took it. And the whole irony in this quote is that he actually took it from me. But I read this quote and I thought of you. Excellence is
never an accident. It is always a result of high intention sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution, and the vision to see obstacles as opportunities. Now I thought of you because just reading all your books, I was like, personally and professionally, it seems like that has been your journey. Absolutely, absolutely, So I gotta ask, what is the broke dish that you would have had us eating in my studio?
If I really don't know.
I was racking my brain when they kept telling me, and I watched the show and I'm like, they kept you know, you got to have a broke dish, and I'm like, I didn't really have a broke dish coming up. And the reason I say that is because even though we were poor, I didn't realize we were poor until I got older, because you know, I grew up in Monks Corner, South Carolina, and you know, when you grow up in a ruined area like that, everybody is pretty
much doing the same. Like, you know, you might have a couple of individuals who got a house that's better than yours, but for the most part, people were growing up in double wide trailers and we're growing up in you know, like small subvern homes like my grandma used to have. But the one thing that we always had was food in funny food, funny and family, literally you know. So it's like the things that people would call broke meals or the things that I still love now. Like
I love grits and eggs. You give me some scrambled eggs with some grits and butter, I'm good. Like my grandma used to make this. She used to make cheese toast. So she would just take the toast. My mouth started water and thinking about it. She would just take the toast and like you know, put the butter on the center and then put a slice of cheese and literally warm that up. And I would drink that with a
cup of tea. And now that I think about it, I'm like, oh, that was like the meals that they were giving us because that's what they could afford to give us, like even you know, but it was amazing that it still tasted good. Like it don't make me feel like something. It's something that I still enjoy now. Yeah, you know, so to me, that's not It might be a broke dish, but I still love it.
I love hearing guests say that they were broke but they didn't realize they were broke. But in those types of cities, what I did notice is that, yeah, everyone looked the same. But what differentiated kids from knowing whether they were broke was at least I don't know, we're close in age, but it was the like kicks, like were you going to school with the cool kicks or something? So or nah?
I had none of those. My dad.
I remember, I wanted they used to be these boots called high tech boots, and my dad they saw the bootleg version that pay less, and I wanted them so bad that I'm like, y'all get the bootleg version that pay.
Less, and they didn't. The kids didn't noticing me.
Well, no, I woke up one morning and my dad had the high tech sitting by my bed.
So I was like, oh, shoot, you know what I mean.
So I actually had the real you know, all black high texts, you know, So I didn't have like the Jordans and all of that stuff like that.
I don't. I don't even what kind of sneakers did I have back then.
I'm saying in that environment, that wasn't the thing that differentiated a poor kid from it because in those environments, everyone's technically in the same economic structure. But I remember growing up in upstate New York where even though we were all kind of in the same category, there were some kids that would go to school wearing Jordan's or Nikes, and then they would look at the kids and say, we're payless and be like, okay, you're poor. And that's how as a child you knew you were poor.
But the people who had the Jordans and stuff when I was growing up with the drug dealers for the most part, you know, I mean, either the drug dealers are like the football players because you know, people in their minds like all these people are going places, so you know, let me throw them some shoes or something like that. But for the most part, the drug dealers had to fly kicks that I remember, you know, growing up,
I don't even remember what I didn't. I'm trying to sit in and try, like what did I wear back then? Sneak awise, I had some converse because you know, Snoop Dogg came out in like ninety two ninety three, so we had the converse all stars.
You know, That's all I can really think of.
So take me back to the cheese toast, which, by the way, I did have On the show, someone had did it with sugared.
Mine was strat cheese toast to butter with a slice of cheese, cup of tea. That's what my grandmother would give us.
And I can even still right now think about that, that feeling of having that, like it was just an amazing meal. I can't remember that. That wasn't even breakfast. That might have just been like, yo, you just got home from school. You might get some cheese toast with a cup of tea, you know, definitely, like I said, gritch and eggs for breakfast.
And you keep referencing your grandma's house. Is there a reason because did you stay with her?
No?
Well, when I was young, my mother, my mother was a school teacher, you know, and my grandmother was a lunch lady. Right, so you know, I grew up in the air when you was in fifth grade, you know, you get get I could get dropped off a my grandma house and wait there till the adults come. And you know, I would never dare do that with my kids now, but you know, just back then, life was different. So I would literally wait till my mom came home from school. So I spent so much time you know,
at my grandmother's house. Like, so, yeah, I spent a lot of time over there.
Okay, and then take me through to at least fast forward to like your first walk of I want to get into entertainment or in that direction.
My grandmother's house, sitting outside while they were waiting waiting for my mom and my grandma to get home, and like, when I was young, it used to seem like it was this huge field between my grandmother's house and my cousin Gloria's house. But the field really isn't that big now, But when I was younger, I used to feel like it was really big, and I.
Would just be out there acting like I was performing.
Like I literally would be facing the field, acting like that field was full of full of people, and I would be either be acting like I was, you know at a certain doing rock and roll. At certain points, I was just giving like speeches, and then like you know, as I started to getting hip hop, I started to act like I was rapping to a crowd. So that was my first Uh, I guess that's when the bug kind of hit me. Like, y'all want to entertain in some way, shape or form.
Did you see or hear it somewhere and then it like touched you. Was it like maybe per Like I remember when I was a kid, I would see Michael Jackson performing. People pass out and I'd be like, oh my god, like that's incredible. Was there something like that that touched you to get you out into that field?
Nah, I just think that.
You know, my dad used to play music a lot, and you know, there was always albums lying around, so you would just see those people and they used to look they used to look cool, you know. I used to I'm a big cartoon guy to this day. So I used to like watch a lot of ThunderCats and.
Oh my god, the ThunderCats.
Thundercast and it was there was a spin off with the ThunderCats. I think it was the silver Fish or something like that. Maybe I'm bugging, but I remember, or maybe it was or maybe it was something with birds, you know, the cats. The ThunderCats were cat, but then it was it was a spin off show that was either Birds of Fish. I don't remember which one it was, but I remember like I would have this imagination that
I was. You know, it's gonna sound crazy, but I was an animal like figure and I had a band behind me that was all those animal humanoids and we were like this group, And I don't know why I would go out in the yard and perform as this group all the time.
So imagination at its best, that's what.
That's all it was. So it's like, yeah, so then what was.
That big, next big milestone? After you know you're performing, you kind of have this like love affair with performing. What was that next big milestone or pivotal moment where you said maybe I should actually push a button and take it a step further.
Well, for radio, it started with me getting an internship. That's why I think internships are so important. And I got an internship when I was eighteen years old in Charleston, South Carolina. And the reason I was able to get that internship is because I always tell people, man, stop acting like.
You know, and just ask questions.
So I've always been a question ask her right, Like, if there's something that I'm interested in, something I don't know nothing about, I just asked questions about it, a lot of questions because you know, when you ask a lot of questions, you know you'll get you'll get answers. So I just simply asked my man. His name was Willy Will because he used to work as Z ninety three Jams in Charleston, South Carolina, and we used to rap together. Well, let me, I need to take a step.
Back, right. Rap is what we all thought.
Was gonna get us out of the hood right when you was young, because when you looked on television or you looked in magazines, the people who looked like you, who were successful Black people were usually in rap are some form of entertainment, are in athletics. So I always thought rap was gonna take me out of the hood. I love to write, always been a writer, so I just started turning those stories I was writing into into raps. But I was never good in the booth, so I
would like, go in the booth. I couldn't like catch the bead stuff like that, you know what I mean? Like that, I just could never do it. But I was always good at writing, good at helping people pick songs, stuff like that. And Willie Will was a guy who could rap. He could actually he sounded really good.
You know, in the booth.
And I just asked him how did he get in the radio, and he was like, yeah, I got an internship. And I was like, Yo, it's dadd easy. I could just go down there and get an internship. And he was like, yeah, like I gotta be in school or nothing, because in my mind, you got to be seeing. He was like, no, this is nineteen ninety eight, Charles the
South Carolina. So that's what I did. I drove down there and I got an internship, and literally they gave me then internship and that's how I got into the radio game.
So rap is what.
Made me feel like, Okay, this is gonna get me out the hood. And then that ultimately led me to radio, which was what changed my life. And you know, I had a great mentor named doctor Robert Evans. You know, I talk about him all the time. You know, in my first book, I got a chapter called fuck your dreams, you know, if they're not your dream right, because a lot of times we see things working for other people and we say, oh, we want to do that too, but that's not what God has meant for you.
So doctor Evans told me, he was like, Yo, you suck.
As a rapper, but you are an amazing radio personality and if you focus on radio, you could be one of the best that ever did it.
And he literally said that to me, and I took his advice.
So I don't like to jump around, but it's the irony and you saying that that was the advice you got. But then in Get Honest or Die Lying, you actually talk about doing the opposite in regards to.
Your daughters astronaut kids.
You still though, cherish that that moment of honesty.
Well, astronaut kids.
You know, in the new book is a chapter I did with my man, Elliott Connie, who's a psychotherapist, and you know, it's about the astronaut kid theory, like if your child comes to you and your child says, hey, I want to be an astronaut. You know, you don't say, all that's impossible, you'll never be an astronaut, blah blah blah. You tell them, okay, so how we're going to get it done? You know, you pour into them, you encourage them.
And I also talk about, you know, in Black Privilege, about how I had a family member when I was just sitting around talking about all my dreams, talking about everything I want to accomplish, they told me not to set my goal. So because if I don't accomplish him, I'm gonna be hurt, and I literally said to that person, that is the stupidest shit I ever heard in my life, because.
I really felt that way.
And with astronaut kids, when a child comes to you and they say they want to be something, you should pour into them. I still do believe in the fucking dreams mentality, but I believe that more so with adults who I know are chasing things that they see working for other people as opposed to tapping into what it is that they truly should be doing, you know, themselves.
I agree. So what you're saying is like over eighteen, you definitely be honest. I remember I had an interview with DC young flying he wanted to be like a basketball player, and he said, you know, he transferred schools. He was like the best basketball player in this like little school. He was going to move to a different school.
He was like the worst basketball player. And the coach, like catapultar to his dreams, was like, you'll never be a basketball player, and he was like, well, thank god for him saying that because it forced him to like check out other lanes. And I do agree with that, but I also heard the astronaut thing. I'm a new mom, like I'm daughters too, so I'm like soaking up any
advice any parent will give me, you know. And I was like, well, you know all these some people say let your kid fall or whatever, but I did like the beauty in the astronaut theory. Going back to your internship, sorry to Derail. I like to see I like to see the growth in you, and you see it. You see it very You're very transparent about the growth of who you were, who were trying to be, and then
who you've become and who you're actively becoming. But go ahead, take back to so you get into radio yep, and what's what's the environment, like, what what do you find that you love the most about it? And what was your internship duties at the time?
Oh, internship duties. I did everything. I had to drive the station vehicle. I had to put the posters up, you know, I had to set up you know, the DJ equipment if need be, set up the tables for people to you know, put their stuff on, like literally whatever I needed to do. Like you know, people would like to call that do boys stuff, but it's like, I mean, I guess, you know.
So I used to actually take the station vehicle home.
So even when it was other intern shifts, they would come and be like.
Well, where's the truck?
Why are you taking it?
Because when they would come and be like, where's the truck, then they would have you know what, I think Charlamagne had it last.
They would call like, char I mean you got the truck? Yeah, actually I do. What's up?
Well we got somebody got a remote an hour, I'm on the way, and I would take the truck and I would just go to the remote with the intern.
So I was there. I was crashing everybody's set.
And then not just coming to the you know, all the remotes, I would be sitting in the studio being a fly on the wall.
You know.
Willie will used to let me sit in with him a lot, and I would just sit there and just like you know, soak it all up, you know, taking uh,
taking what was going on. And this is another reason the astronaut kid theory is so powerful because I always talk about my homegirl Testing Spencer, you know who's from Charleston, South cam and her and Baby Jay had a show on Z ninety three called The Breakfast Club when I was growing up, and that was the huge morning show in Charleston ninety three still is the big heritage station down there, and Tesla calls the She called one day when I was on a Sunday morning doing what we
call voice tracking. So voice tracking is basically you would record your your breaks upload them, but you still had to sit in the studio while the show was on because I was new, you know, And she called and she goes, yo, you know what. She was telling me about a traffic accident that was somewhere on but she was like, yo, you sound really good.
And I said thank you.
She's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not just saying that, like, you sound really good, like a natural. And the confidence that gave me, like the boost, the energy that gave me, like, oh shit, Tessa Spencer from the Breakfast Club just told me I sound good like So it solidified to me that I was doing what I was supposed to be
doing because it already felt good. It felt amazing, like I'm talking, but it felt like on that microphone, it felt like the first time you had orgasm, Like literally, like that first time you got.
High, you know, and you're like, oh man, this is amazing. It just felt incredible.
And so when she told me that it just like set something off of me, that it lit a spark that hasn't hasn't gone.
Out like this is definitely my purpose.
I knew that because you got this tattoo I got on my armor here is.
Oh my gosh, is that a Thundercat?
No, it's Wolverine. It's horrible though. My man, it's a guy named t Willis. This when tattoos were illegal in South Carolina.
My man, t Willis did this.
But it's Wolverine from the X Men, holding a microphone in his hand.
You need to get this. Oh yeah, I see, you see it.
And the reason I got Wolverine because Wolverine is still my favorite X Men character. But the thing I loved about Wolverine was his healing powers. Literally, he had the ability to heal from any situation. And so I always knew in my mind even back then. I think I got this when I was seventeen, I knew that.
Yo.
Maybe I think I might have a little older, like eighteen nineteen, but I knew in my mind that I wanted to have that ability. I wanted to have the ability to heal from anything. This is before I didn't I didn't know nothing but no therapy. I wasn't on no healing journey back then. I was out of my mind back then, but I just knew in my mind I wanted to be able to heal from any situation. And I knew physically, and I used to say this
to myself. I knew that wasn't possible physically, so I used to always say emotionally mentally, you know, I wanted to be able to heal from anything. And he's holding a mic because I thought rap was gonna be what changed my life, but actually it was these type of microphones that changed my life. And then now you see, I'm I'm a huge mental advocate, huge mental health advocate, helping people on their healing journey. So it's just like, man, God don't waste nothing.
He don't. But now, back at eighteen to ninety, you also had the name Charlotte Mane or you had the nickname then.
Yes, because I was.
I graduated from night school and let me see, I graduate from night school in nineteen ninety eight, so I was either I was either about to be twenty or still nineteen. But yeah, because I used to sell crack and I used to always say my name was Charles, like, because you know, I come from a small town, so if I said my real name, people be like, oh, that's Larry's son, that's Julie son.
So I used to always say my name was Charles or Charlie.
And then we used to all smoke a lot of weeds, so we all had a like like weed nickname. So I was like Charlie Chronic. Somebody else was like Mikey Marijuana. Somebody else was Nikabodism, somebody else was Bobby Buddha.
I think it's interesting because throughout your whole story it seems like you're you had the Charlemagne, which was almost I hate to say it for lack of better terms, but you had this like bad boy persona type oh yeah, thing that you were you were leading with. But then in the back of your mind, even with the god or with the next it was like in the back of your mind but like healing or moving in this like purposeful direct but even lingering in the background.
Right yeah, but even with charlamagnecause Charlamagne is French for Charles the Great, and Charlemagne was a Roman emperor who went about spreading religion and education.
And then you know in Haiti.
There's a general Charlemagne, and he was just a revolutionary, right, So I picked that name for those reasons because they meant something. So I'm sitting in night school looking at the history of book and I see Charles the Great, and I'm like, Charles the Great, I'm like Charlemagne. I'm like, I'm like, Charlemagne is French for Charles the Great. So I'm like, oh, I just call myself Charlemagne Charlomagne the God. So it really didn't make no sense. It's like it'd
be like Charles the Great, the God. But I was seventeen in high all the time.
I eighteen. I don't remember how.
I can't remember how I was, Like, I know it was nineteen ninety eight, so I was like nineteen probably, but I was in night.
School, Okay. And then, now, when do you officially after the internships start getting into Paige, Like, how long?
I I was an intern for a while because they actually had canceled the internship programs, and then they brought me back. And then when they brought me back, they hired me in the promotions department, so basically to get paid only I think it might have been six hours an hour if that at the time.
And so I was.
Getting paid a little bit of money, you know, to being promotions. And then my man, Ron White, my guy, Ron White still my guy this day. He was the music director at the time, and he was like, yo, you need to You said, you ever thought about being on the radio, And I was like nah.
He was like no, nah, because I hadn't you know what I mean.
I mean, yeah, I was just I was just happy to be there and like you know, every now and then I would jump on with Willie will you know, but I never thought to myself, I can get my own show or anything like that.
He was like, yo, you should, you should, you should be on air.
And so Ron White is the president that started, you know, allowed me to voice track and put me on there, you know. So that's why I got mad love for you know, Ron to this day. Like you know, certain people change the trajectory trajectory of your life, and you know, you you should always honor those people, you know, for for for even if you're not on the great terms of them, even if you don't like the person no more,
you should always honor them in your story. Yeah, by telling them that, you know, but tell telling that story about them, because you can't erase that.
The only reason why I wanted to know the how long it is? Because we are definitely in the air and you talk about it in the book where everyone is, especially with the younger people, and I try to think back if I was like that, even though I catch myself still being like that is like the overnight success, Like how long did it take? That's why I wanted
to stress, like thirty years in radio broadcasting? How long did it take of you struggling before you got your first big Like well, I don't want to say the six dollar check, but that you know, Oh.
I didn't get a huge check in radio. Tell Breakfast Club wow, because.
Breakfast Club was just easily ten years, right, yet longer.
Cause it was that was Breakfast Club was the seventh radio station I worked at. So I started in nineteen ninety eight and then I got with Breakfast Club in two thousand and ten.
Year, So what's that?
What's that terms twelve years?
Yeah, So I worked at four radio stations in Charleston and then I was with Wendy Winn. But I worked with Wendy for like a year and a half for free. You know, and then when I got put on salary, I was making seventy thousand dollars a year. And then I got my own morning show in Philadelphia, and I still was making like seventy grand a year, seventy seventy five grand a year, something like that. And then I went back home. I had to go back home to South Carolina. Like I fired four times.
Yeah, and that was my next one. Why were you getting fired so much?
That was just a game, Like it wasn't even about anything that I was necessarily doing. It's just like, that's just the business of a radio. Like when I started as the ninety three Jams. That's why I was an intern. That's when I was in promotions. That's when I worked in programming. I quit, you know, there to go work at a station called Hotney eight nine. My man George Cook, who is the operations manager at K one oh four in Dallas. He's the first person to give me a
full time job on radio. Still a great mental mind to this day. And even then I was making nineteen grand a year. And then I, you know, went to Columbia. After I got fired from hot ninety nine. They fired George George who hired me, they fired him, bought in a new guy, Corey Hill, who was the program director, and then Corey fired me because he Corey wanted to bring in his own people.
Of course, that's just the way the game goes in radio.
Now, during this whole journey, what's your mental health looking like? Are you starting to second guess whether this is your journey? I really want to dig into that mental health state when you're going through that roller coaster wave, because you even ended up back at home with your parents at some point.
I did the first time.
The first time I got fired from radio, which was Hot ninety eight nine in Charleston, I was a little I was a little fucked up mentally because I didn't know that I could go do radio other places.
So in my mind like that was my one shot.
Yeah, because I mean I didn't I'm from Monks Corner, South Carolina. I know that area. I know I can have success in Charleston. I never even thought about, you know, doing radio other places. And it wasn't until I did this demo tape. But it was actually because I used to do my man, doctor Robert Evans and his son,
my guy DJ Bluss loved him to death. They had a record label called Never So Deep, and so I was doing an r for them, and they put out a compilation album and it was like all of their artists because they had a subsidiary deal with an MCA back then.
That's MCA was a big label back in the day.
And so they had a compilation album and I narrated the compilation album, but I put it together like a radio show. And so we were just sending that out, you know, around the country, and one of the program directors in South Carolina named Mike Love, he was like yo.
He'd sent me an email.
He was like, yo, yo, do you do radio for real? And I'm like yeah, and he was like, man, come see me. And so I drove an hour and a half the Columbia, South Carolina from Monk's Corner, met my guy, Mike Glove. Salute to Mike Glove, and Mike started putting me on in Columbia Thursday. I think I was on Friday, Saturday and Sunday in Columbia. Maybe Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
I dont remember it.
And that was your second after getting fired from the first.
That was yeah, that was it. But that was the third station I worked at third.
Yeah, and I loved working in Columbia because my wife was going to the University of South Carolina, so that's in Columbia. So now I had a reason to be up there every weekend, you know what I mean.
So once again, that's God.
You can't you cannot script that, like that is all God. That's God putting all of those pieces together. Like I want y'all to be with each other, you know here, right, even if y'all go through ups and y'all go through downs, I still want you all around each other. Because we did break up for a year at one point during that time. We've been together twenty six years. But long story short, I ended up in Columbia that station.
Big DM flipped formats, so I.
Ended up going to work for the station that they bought, which was Hot one o three nine, which was the big hip hop station in that market. And from Hot one o three point nine, that's when when Williams got syndicated on Hot one of three point nine. So when they would come to the market, her and her husband, I would just show him love, you know what I mean, like make sure they was good or whatever they needed you know, take them to the clubs, stuff like that,
and that's how we forged a relationship, you know. And and it wasn't just they forged relationship with other people around the station at that time too, like you know, my homegirl Venom, she had a good relationship with them as well. So we all just had a had a relationship, you know. And that's how all of those doctor ended up connecting.
Okay, how was it working with Wendy Williams.
Best best and worst time in my life? You know, best and worst, best and worst time.
In my life?
Just because like Wendy come from it, she comes from a different era, you know, Like there's been time I remember, I remember sitting in the studio offering some input and shut the fuck up and do it my way or get the fuck out, you know what I mean, shut the I don't want to hit shit from you, motherfucker.
Like so it was like this was like before H.
Well nowadays HR terrified.
I think about that shit all the time, likes their HR departments. Back then, it couldn't have been.
Not the ship were really know, I think also when you're young, I don't think anyone really knows how to use HR. I mean, I could be wrong with today's culture of cancel culture, like people are like more, but I remember being like sexually her, like all types of things because I did not know how HR worked. I just knew I needed my job and I wasn't willing to do anything to jeopardize.
And that's you know, back then, it was like, you know, I had I was. I had personal relationships with them, man, professional relationship with them, and you saw how everything turned out with you know, her and her husband. So it was like all of that was a very tumultuous, tumultuous, I don't know if I'm saying the word right, tumultualist, tumultuous, tumultuous, A fucked up situation.
It was. It was all fun. It was a very fuck up situation.
Men, you like that too? Also, is like because the lines were blurred, right, So that's why she was talking. So what was the highlight of it?
Just working with Wendy, Working with one of the greatest media personalities of all time. You know, regardless of what her you know, personal showcomings may have been, professionally, she's one of the fucking best to ever do it, you know, from TV to radio, like I mean the things that I used to watch her do as far as like you know, show prep, Like you know, Wendy was a person who really lived. She lived, you know, the culture
that she spoke about. She wasn't one of those people who got in front of the microphone and gossiped, because you know, she was performing.
That's really who she was.
And so for me, it was just that's not I mean, I don't want to do the gossip thing, but it was just like be authentic, be who you are. Like I would see I would be with her all day and then come sit with her in that studio and do the show and watch her detail our day. You understand what I'm saying. So it's just like everything was content for her.
I was in the store and this happened, we were driving and this, like it was all content.
And so it's like for me, that's like that's how that's always been my approach, you know, like your life, your life is your best content. That's why I'm able to write three books because I'm not performing. I'm literally just showcasing and sharing all of these different things that you know, I've experienced, all these different things that I've learned and I'm not afraid to be transparent, Like I
gotta be afraid to be transparent. When I've heard Wendy Williams talk about being on crack smoking, smoking sniff and coke cooking, the coke smoking, the crack, throwing up on the radiator because she was so high, and then the fucking radiator cooking, the cooking, the throw up. Like, but that's that's a surreal It's an amazing story. So if I come from being next to that, why wouldn't I
be just as authentic? Plus we hip hop. Yeah, so think about all the stories we've heard, the jay Z's tell and the Big East Tell and the scarfaces and the killing Mike, all of these people that we love. So it's just like, I want to be that same type of storyteller.
So was it in that moment that you realize that authenticity was the key to success in radio?
Oh? Yeah, I knew that.
But I knew that before Wendy because I was already admiring people like Wendy.
I was already admiring pe D Green. Pe D Green is.
That's my all time favorite radio personality, right, So I already knew authenticity was what separated you period, Like, it's ironic that the name of this book is called Get Honest or Die Lying, because that could have been the name of my first book. Because literally, I've always my daddy used to always tell me when you lying to people, or he was used to say, specifically him.
You lying.
You think you're lining to me, but you're only lying to yourself. And so I never ever wanted to be that person that is, you know, lying to themselves, because what happens is you end up volunteering those lives to other people. And I think that's what's happening in this era that we're in now in social media, like you know, just everybody feel like they got to perform, So who's really truly being themselves? Everybody's showing up with a mask.
On yeah, social but you know what it's you talk You mentioned Larussell, but I thought l Russell did a really good job at kind of putting the case. And I talked him about this. I'm like, yo, I can't be that transparent. He's like, you got to, you know, I don't know. He'd be showing like, okay, this was the sales or this is me pressing up the shot. He would show everything, just document everything, and I thought
that was like a crazy amount of transparency. I was like, I could never ever do that.
I love that dude.
Man.
L Russell was introduced to me by my late great friend Hovain, and I never forget it because Hovain he sent me a video of L. Russell rapping and L Russell it was like the first one. It was the one that went crazy viral. Well, he was rapping about so many things and socially redeeming value. He was rapping about being a young brother, trying to heal like it was everything I was on and so Hovain sent it to me and I didn't get a chance to listen
to it. I remember a couple of days later, Hovain text me like, there's no way you listened to that, because you know me. He was like, there's no way you listened to that, and I was like, you know what, let me let me listen to it. When he Hope Set text me that I listened and I'm like, why are you just telling me about him?
He's like, I sent you this three.
Days ago, crazy right, And so it was like immediately I had to repost it because I wanted the world to hear that and then you know, when you meet l Russell, his energy is just just everything man. So he's just one of them young brothers. He always got my support just because he's a He's a solid, solid human being who I think is delivering a message not just of independence when it comes to business, but a message of healing that I think a lot of brothers need to heal.
Yeah, Integrity is like definitely like a word I use a lot, and when I'm looking for entrepreneurs, celebrities or influencers, I'm always looking for that level of integrity. And I remember just being like, okay, like talented, definitely talented and all that, but I was like, I want to know, like if we're a fly on your wall, like what am I seeing?
For real? But that's what integrity is.
And that's that's another part of the book, right get Honest to Die line. That's why I said, like, you know, we tell we lie to ourselves and then we volunteer these lies the other people. Integrity to me is doing what's right when nobody's around. Who are you when the camera's not on? Who are you when the microphone isn't on? Like, because I really care more about God than anybody. That's
why you don't care about perception. You should focus on your character, because perception is what everybody thinks about you, and that varies from person to person.
Character is who you actually are. So I care about my character.
I don't care if the world has a perception of me because they don't know me, you know. And that's why people will say things like, what's the biggest misconception about you? Charlm There is no misconception because I don't know what version of me you saw. I've been doing this shit for twenty six years, you know what I mean. I don't know what version of me you saw. So whatever version of me you saw, whatever perception you have of me based off what you saw, I can't trip off that, you know.
No, Now, after the Wendy Williams, you leave Wendy Williams. How long was the gap between Wendy Williams and the Breakfast Club?
I left Wendy November two, two thousand and eight.
You remember this well.
I remember it for a particular reason. I remember it because President Barack Obama became He became president elect on November third, two thousand and eight, So and I got fired November second two thousand and eight from Wendy, but like twenty five people got fired, like it was a massive layoff. People forget how fucked up the economy was in two thousand and eight. So it wasn't just me
that got fired. You had great legendary radio personality like Bond Harper got fired and Champagne like these are legendary urban adult contemporary personality.
Him when you got fired, did you actually look at it as everyone's getting the rap? Because I know me, I'll be like, I know everyone's going through it, but what about Well.
You know it was good for me because when I got fired, it was news like it was in like the New York Times and like I think it was PIXE eleven or one of these local New York radio stations came to interview me and Wendy about my firing. I remember them saying fan favorite, and I was like, oh shit, fan favorite. Because you got to think when I first thoughted with Wendy, they hated me, like literally, New York City did not fuck with me. Like they even put up a survey that said they said, shar
Charlamage be sent back home. It was like eighty five percent of people was like sending his ass back home.
How did that make you feel when you saw those surveys?
It didn't make me feel any way.
Like I promise you, man, I've never been that kind of person. Like I just I understand things happen, and I have such a belief in myself, and I have such a belief in God, and I have such a belief in what, you know, what God has me here to do that I just feel like all of that I knew even back then, even though it might have stung, I just knew it was part of the process. Like I knew I was not going to lose. I constantly hear jay z voice in my head. I will not lose,
you know. I just I knew that I was not going to lose. And so it's like, all right, I'll get y'all. You might you may not like me now, but I'll get y'all. And fast forward two and a half years later, the news is reporting I'm a fan favorite, and guess what me working at Wendy. I did what I was supposed to do at Wendy so much that I ended up getting my own radio show in Philadelphia. And I loved it, right because I got fired November second,
two thousand and eight. My oldest daughter, who actually turned sixteen today or the day we're taping this.
She had been born June of that year.
So from November two thousand and eight to like May of two thousand and nine, I was home every day with my daughter because my wife was the one going to work every day. My wife was keeping the lights on. I was too proud to go collect unemployment.
I had no money.
You didn't even collect collect.
I didn't collectunemploym until I got fired from Philadelphia.
From my fourth time.
I love that's your wife, and you definitely had that team environment like ones down. Well it's okay, we're going to run it man.
She held it down, you know.
I mean we ultimately had we were facing the evictions and all types of stuff like that, but she held it down. And so it's like when I started off, I started doing radio and Philly. I got the morning radio show in Philly because of what I had done on Wendy Show, and then from morning radio that morning radio in Philly, even though I was only there for eight nine months and got fired right for the same reason.
They bought in a new program director, guy named Boogie d you know who fired me from one hundred point three to beat in Philly. They need to be aware of their fuck ups. These people need to be aware of the mistakes they made in life. So he fired me, and I was We went home for a year, me and my wife and my oldest daughter and went home. He went home to South Carolina for a year. That's
when I started collecting unemployment. I had never collected unemployment from any of those four radio stations I got fired. So I was getting like eleven hundred dollars a week for like fifty two weeks the whole year. And the last unemployment check I got was like November, like second week in November, and that was the same week I think I started breakfast club.
Wow, yep wow.
And then you come to breakfast club and this is it sounds like you could correct me? Is this this is the highest salary of your career because now you're what you said in your book and now look at you. I also, you know, I had to like just out of share curiosity, and he made one hundred and twenty five k. Then like and then to see I googled it is probably wrong, but I was like Okay, so then how much does he make now from the breakfast club?
I think I said like three million or something like that. Wow, is a lie? Is it Google? A lie?
I don't know.
I won't from and I have no idea. I'm not I'm not one of those guys.
I don't know why googled it. I was just random. I get curious all the most random stuff. Okay, so you're at the breakfast club. Where does publishing take place, like the book writing? Where does that like happen? Because I know the first time I read Black Privilege had to been Was it seven year? No?
Yeah, it came out, it came out, it came out twenty sixteen. No, it came out twenty seventeen. Came out twenty seventeen, came out April of twenty seventeen.
I read that book. It's so funny. Of the only other books I've ever read by entertainers is mainly Jay Z Russell Simmons, and I read your book and it inspired me to read I think Kevin Hart's book, and then I realized, no, not everyone's the same. I really like your writing, Thank you. I really like it.
I mean, I actually write, you know, my guy Chris Morrow, who I always give credit to because you know, he told me two things that absolutely changed my life. He told me twelve years ago, you need to write a book, and you need to start a podcast. And I always wanted to write a book because I'm a writer, right, I knew that was gonna come. But I was like a podcast. I was like, why would I start a podcast? Podcaster for people who can't get on radio?
Oh?
I remember saying that twelve yeah, twelve years ago even, and he was like, he was like, now I'm telling you man, it's gonna be the next wave.
YadA, YadA, YadA.
And I started listening to Combat Jack around that time, God Bless the Dead, Reggie Osha, and so I listened.
I was like, you know what, why not?
Because in my mind, I'm like, already been fired, you know, four times from radio. And the thing that kept me afloating in people's minds after I got fired from Philadelphia was I got to salute to Angelie Be going up to her satellite radio show, doing guest spots on there, and me and Little Duball used to do a YouTube
show called hood State of the Union. Me and Little Duball was doing YouTube shows back in two thousands, and it was first brand new exactly, and like people would watch them on YouTube, but then the blogs would pick them up like world Star and everybody else. And so that's how I ended up even getting my first looks in TV, like my first real looks in TV, because Nick Cannon had a show called a Hayton that he was the executive producer on, and my girl Tiffany Williams,
she put me in du ball on that show. So I've always understood the power of the internet, right and how to utilize the Internet to build a national.
Audience.
So that's why I started the podcast because I knew, all right, let's just say I do get fired from Breakfast Club, at least I have something else, you know, going on. So me and my guy Andrew Schultz, who now is the biggest comedian in the world, which I would have.
No idea, how impressed any I.
Used to go back and listen to old brid Idiots episodes. I used to say that I'm like yo, Andrew shot to get that because there was a comedian named Russell uh Russell Peters and he was like the biggest touring comedian in the world. But people didn't even really realize it. And I used to always say, Andrew, you're gonna be that, You're gonna be the biggest touring comedian in the world, like,
and that's what he's doing now. But back then I just thought he was smart, funny because we used to do guy code together and we used to talk on the phone. And I remember one time we all ended up on a plane the LA for the MTV Awards or something like that. We all rolled in the car together, me and him and Melanie Iglesias and we like me and Andrew has been cool since then.
You know, when did you actually say Okay, yes, I'm gonna do book publishing and then with that you ended up doing your own you published it yourself.
Well, no, I put out A Black Privilege with Simon and Schustu. Black Privilege had tremendous success, you know, instant bestseller, New York Times national bestseller. It was on New York Times Bestsellers. This's for like twenty plus weeks. And so they came to me and they wanted me to do
another book immediately. I had started therapy in twenty and sixteen, so man in the middle of twenty seventeen late twenty eighteen, I was in a total different mind state because I was unlearning so many things that I had learned throughout my life, and I was dealing with a lot of the traumas that I had never ever, you know, dealt with before.
So I was really in a confused state.
And so when twenty eighteen came around and they was kept pressing me for this book, pressing me for this book, I was like, look, man, I've been going to therapy. I can share some of the journy of that. I can share to some of the things that you know, I go there and talk about. And that's what I did. And then my book agent, Jan Miller, had the idea to add my man, doctor ish major, who gave the
clinical correlations to the things that I was saying. Like, if you go back and you listen to Shook one or read Shook one, you'll you'll hear how raw that was, you'll hear you know, the mind state that I was in,
you know, at that time. And then when it came time to do my third book, because you know, Shiok one was a success as well, another bestseller, I was like, yo, I don't even want like a big advance, Like I'm not looking for like a huge amount of money, because you know, every time you put out a book, you know, you have success, advances get bigger.
I was like, Yo, just give me, you know, give me what y'all gave.
Me for the last one. But I really want to imprint. I really want to be able to publish other people's.
Oh that's how the Black Privileged Publishing.
It literally was like that because you know, for me, man, like I always say, if whatever your if whatever, your build old thing only benefits you, it's not big enough. So I was just like, yo, let me get an imprint. And by the way, all I can say is no, right, And it was like, hell, yeah, let's do what.
It did with the Black Effect podcast network. Yeah did you do the same thing?
Yeah?
Black Effect was essentially the same thing, because a little bit different, only because you know, with radio you have contracts and so you know, five years five years is like the max deal and I had did a couple of.
Five year deals already. Yeah, I did a couple five years. I was uh yeah. So when twenty twenty came, my five years was up.
So you know, we were in negotiations and you know the beauty, and I give, I give a little jewel because it'll never happen again, but I'll give a little jewel. I come from the era of radio where all of these new things that we were doing weren't in our contracts, meaning like I had a radio contract, so the only you know, entities, I couldn't have conversations with his other radio stations.
With the world changed, so.
Now we're doing We've been doing Brand Idiots podcasts for eight nine years at that time, right, and there's all of these different platforms, the apples and the Spotify's and all of these different people are looking for content, and it's like, oh, Charlamagne's contract is up right, are coming up? So you know, you had different people, you know, reaching
out to my agents whoever else. And I always had this idea because I was looking at just the landscape of podcasting and I'm like, man, you know, you got Barstool over here, and you got Gimblet over here, and you know, I was already a part owner of the Loud Speaking Network with my man Chris Morrow and Combat Jack.
But I felt like there was no house for black podcasts like you had all of these black podcasts that were scattered all over the place, and they had audiences, but they might not have been connecting that audience with the ad revenue dollars. I was just like, yo, let's I want to launch a podcast network. I want to start my own you know, podcast network called The Black Effect.
And it didn't make any sense, you know, to go anywhere else. You know, even though I.
Even though I had conversations, even though even though there was other conversations had iHeart is the biggest audio publishing you know, company in the world. So when I presented my vision the iHeart of what I wanted to do.
They were all in.
And so I'm a fifty one percent majority owner of The Black Effect.
This isn't a this isn't a vanity label.
This isn't something you know, Hey, let's just give him something and put his name on it, which, by the way, and I want to say this, a lot of those other companies, that's what they were trying to do. So a lot of those other companies, I never told him, like what I wanted to name it and stuff like that. I just, you know, my agent told them what the idea was. And a lot of those other companies wanted to do things like that, but they didn't want to give me no real ownership.
They didn't want to give me no real equity. So I could have went other places and got like a big ass check and had a vanity podcast network, but I would have to run everything by them, and they would have to have first rider refusal on what I could bring in. Like I couldn't be like, yo, let's bring in eating while broke.
They'd be like, well, who is by the way, shout out to you for that? I will. I want to say such on a couple of things before we wrap. Secretly, No, I'm secretly scared of the time because your team is like assured me that I make over. One thing I wanted to shout out to you is I did I you know, I previously did come from the Nick can I work with Nick Cannon for like ten plus years
as a partner and another company. And one of the things that I'm not hopefully discratches, but one of the things I noticed with being in the industry is male dominated. One of the things I love about working with the Black Effect Network is that not only is it women of color that pretty much run it. I don't even know if there's men over there.
There probably is, but male producers like a king.
You're right, my producer is a male. But I'm saying like the the women are like really running it and holding it down. And it's like you could pick up the phone. I mean, if I say anything crazy, Dolly will call me in three seconds, dn't even end, and I immediately know I'm in trouble. But I love how it is. But I also love like I always ask people like the transparency, So how's he? How is he really? You know? And you take good care of them, and
you don't see that a lot in the industry. I've seen more of the opposite, where the men get the checks and the women do the work and then the women don't get paid and then it's just like eventually they die off.
Man, I don't Black Effect is successful because of Dolly Bishop, And you know I knew that.
It's like, man, God tells me things.
It's like I always do because Dolly's, you know, a family friend like Dolly's that's my homie before it's anything else, and so I always do. Like rock Nation is like a lot of my blueprint, And if you go to rock Nation, it's the same thing, like, you know, Daz is in charge, right, There's is the president a woman, and there's a lot of other women in position of power as well. And you know, I just always think I always thought that was so dope because.
Like, women get things done, I really do.
I just did, especially black women, women of color, they get things done. And so it's like I always knew I'm gonna start this entity and I want Dolly to run it, like I always knew that.
Side note, so Dolly during the pandemic, I was doing a lot of crazy stuff because my company had shut down, and anyways, Dolly had called me and she said, hey, I'm thinking about getting taken this job or whatever. I'm not too sure. I didn't ask her what it was. It was like, yo, girl, if you don't have to punch a clock, get a check, they don't like watch you every day. What are we even discussing, Like we're in the middle of the end times, like take a check,
you know. And for whatever reason, did not think to ask what the job was. You know, whil'n out niked pissed off the world with the jew comments, nobody knew what the heck was going on. I did not think to ask, So then I don't ask. I'm just like take the job. Like, what do we discuss Dolly? You I've seen Dolly play every hat and she's she's very skilled at you don't have to worry about her integrity. She can get the job done whatever whatever reason she
questioned it. So anyways, I'm trying to do eating while broke. On the side, I like pitch my friends, like you know, all celebrity friends, like yo, I need you to take one for the team. And on one of the texts, I had said something about like Dolly and then one of them was like Dolly, and I guess in Variety they had just announced that she was like the president of Black I had no idea, right, so I get the text and I'm like, yo, Dolly, Yo, I need to use her name more, and she's like, what are
you talking about? She I was like yo, and I sent her like the Variety thing like is this the job?
And like what?
I was like okay, and she was like and don't use my name everywhere and I was like, I'm definitely using your name everywhere. And then true story. People always ask how I ended up on the Black Effect. I had been telling Dolly about eating while broke. So then I get a call one day She's like, you're gonna kill me. Why would I want to kill you? She's like, oh,
you be so mad at me. Oh in my head, I'm like no. And I had told her like when I do eating while broke, like you gotta like we gotta put all our hats, all our names, and everyone's contacts have to come together, which, by the way, Dolly does not like to do. I didn't know that until now. But anyway, she calls me, she's like, so I was on the phone with iHeart, I s all you guys, and I pitched eating while broke and I was like, okay, well, what's the bad thing. She was like they loved it,
and like Charlottage wants to show. And I was like, okay, what's the bad news. She's like, what's the podcast? I don't care. We need distribution, girl, I take it, like what do they need from me? And my in my garage was like the eating while broke table Like, I mean, my neighbors were driving past me like what is this girl up to?
You know?
And I'd always tell people like God like somehow aligned it because my plan for it was so like minute and then you know, accidentally by the share like accident, you guys end up in this call and everything happened. I think it was beautiful. And every time I see you, I always try to make sure you know, like you know that I appreciate you took a chance on And I remember Dolly coming out to La like, we've never seen you in front of the camera, so we're gonna
we're gonna watch you do it. And then she saw me and she was like, this is you. This is I was like what. But uh, I hate talking about politics because I have my own insecurities. But recently in LA, I did interview a congressman and I just kind of just was like very transparent about, uh, how much I don't know about politics. It's not something I like to argue about because I don't know enough facts. I don't
like to vote because I don't know enough facts. But one of the things that I learned in that interview is I was talking to my dad and he had said something about like how he got all this money for like against like you know, the imprison the jail system or whatever. My dad had said something like, yeah, but how did he spend how is he spending the money?
And I just didn't think to ask that question. And I think, you know, after that interview, after like getting that close in person with a congress person and seeing like who they are and how they got to where they're at, what I'm learning in politics and is that government and politics they're they're not necessarily together.
Well, it depends, I mean, you know, you have I think people forget that there's local politics and there's national politics. And I think most of the time, most of the time, what's happening you know, locally may not be happening nationally. There's a lot of things that I see happening, you know, locally, places that I wish were.
You know, happening nationally.
Like you know, right now, you look at Maryland and you look at you know what Wes Moore just did, you know, by pardoning I think one hundred and seventy five thousand people from mister meaning marijuana convictions. Now, I think that's a great start. I think that, you know, they could go further. I think that they should pardon. If you know, if you're in prison right now in a state where marijuana is legal and you're in there,
for a non violent drug offense. I think you should be pardoned, and I think your record should be exponged. But I think what what's is doing a great start.
But I wish that that was the model for nationally because President Biden could do that, and for a person like President Biden, you know, who was hands on with the eighty six mandatory minimum centizen, who was hands on with the eighty eight crack laws, who was hands on with the ninety four crime bill, that would be a good way to atone, you know, for some of those for some of that legislation that you created that put so many black and brown people away.
You could with a wave, with a stroke of a pen.
You don't need nobody else but you to say, if you're a non violent drug offender in prison, you should be pardoned, and I think your record should be expunged, especially you know, marijuana.
Yeah, I agree, And then I remember when marijuana became illegal, it was like anyone that had those those that record couldn't even get into the weed business. My dad was like very upset, like could you imagine, like you perfected this career, You've spent ten years, and now you can't even get the LIFs.
That's right, that's right, I got a license.
Yeah, we got a dispensary opening in a New Jersey called Hashtoria.
It'll we open this ship. You know.
It's myself, Ray Con the chef, Bakari Sellers and a Jed and Josh Are are two partners who run Hashtoria. So we got a dispensary open and know we got a dispensary and consumption lone.
For people that sorry to cut you off on that, For people that don't know that much about politics and are starting to think about voting, what are the questions that you feel they should be asking, like politicians are looking for in politicians.
I tell everybody vote their interests. Like you know, it's not hard what people are looking for. I don't care if you're black, I don't care if you're white. I don't care what your gender is. I don't care what your sexuality is. Everybody wants money in safety. Life is about, you know, doing something that's going to put you in a financial position to create some up with mobility, and
we just all want to feel safe. So I think that you should look, you know, to the elected officials who are creating policies who are creating legislation that's putting money in people pocket and that's making people safe.
Like it's really not that hard. It's not that difficult.
And when you find that person that is doing those things, both of.
Them, Okay, yeah, I think I like that advice. But I also I think in the past year, I don't trust as many people. I don't blame you, and I'm more like, even if I were to date now, I'm like, what's your resume looking like? But give me the X numbers? Like I don't give it anymore. If you can't give me an X number and they say this is then I don't want to do it anymore.
References.
Yeah, I haven't started dating again yet, but yeah, my husband got fired or he's getting fired anyways. But yeah, I think like even with Kamala Harris, I heard like she was a district attorney that like put a lot of people away in her previous Like I'm looking at all references, but do you think that matters or no?
I mean that one was interesting because she was a DA doing her job, you know, And I mean that's what the laws were, you know at that time.
You know.
I mean, I've definitely seen her pivot, you know, on her stance in regards to marijuana. But that's why I think people like her, just like people like President Biden, should be advocating heavily and not just advocating. They should be doing pardon everybody in America on a federal level who has a non violent drug offense, especially for marijuana.
They have the power to do that.
They have the power to do it. And why do you think they're not doing it? Then?
I don't.
I mean, nobody's pushing them politically, but that would be an amazing thing for both of them to do because both of them have those reputations. Both of them have you know, those type of records. So it's like, yo, do that say that, Hey, y'all, you're changing with the times. You know, just you noticed legislation that y'all that that was created hurt a lot of people back then. So it's just like that is the way you atone, you know,
for things like that. So I've been saying, I think that would be one of the most fantastic political strategies that they could do right now, you know, like during the especially during an election. Yet like all of this, all of this right now is dream selling season. Everybody's pandering. Everybody's saying, you know, and that's what's so crazy. Right, You're in the White House, so you have power that your you know, opponent, Donald Trump does not have, So
you can actually do things. He can only talk about the things he wants to do. So, yes, it is dream selling season. Yes, they are pandering to us for our vote. And I mean those are the things that I think that we should push for them to do,
because I can you imagine that headline. Imagine you opened up your phone and you looked on you know, shade Room or whatever whatever it is, you know, and or just anything, and it said it said President Biden pardons all non violent drug offenders effective immediately or whatever it is.
Like whoa you know.
That would that would get even and vote?
Okay? It rile everybody up.
All right, Well, what what more can you share with us in regards to get honest or die line? We haven't already covered.
It's just a book that I want everybody to read because I want to challenge everybody to be the most honest version of themselves possible. We have to stop lying on ourselves and we have to stop volunteering those lives to other people.
You know.
The subtitle is why small talk sucks because I hate micro conversations. I think we got to, you know, find a way to start having big conversations. I think that we have too much, you know, unnecessary small talk, and I think that we put small talk and the big talk on the same scale, so it feels like everything weighs the same when they don't, right, they don't. And we don't know how to even have, you know, big conversations. We genuinely do not have. We don't even know how
to discuss big conversations. And that's why America can't ever truly solve no problems. You ask me why, you know, President Biden doesn't, you know, due to non violent pardon the non violent drug offenders. Because nobody's really really having that conversation on a big, big level like they should. You know, they rather talk about transgenders and sports like that ain't affecting nobody's life, like God blessed them, you know what I mean.
But it's definitely like that whome it's a media. In your book, you even talked about like how they trade the like this Trump did it like to distract.
The people that's right, that's right.
And so it's just like your people like we just don't know how to discuss what we should be talking about.
We make minors majors.
Now, random question, do you think the algorithms play a role in dumbing us down?
One hundred percent? That's why I hate algorithms. That's why you have to disconnect. Like I tell people all the time, don't be a don't be a surfer, be a wave, because surfers have to ride waves the algorithm depending. We all ride the wave of whatever algorithm is presented to us instead of actually being our own waves. And you know, figuring out, man, what is what is it I should actually be thinking about in regards to this situation, or should I even be thinking about this situation at all?
Think about things that come across your timeline every day that you wasn't even thinking about, but now you can't get it off your motherbucker mind just because it came across your timeline. And guess what, it really don't even matter. It's something so small and so trivial, but.
You I saw it. I saw them.
They were arguing a couple of weeks ago about are you safer around a man or a bear, and I mean and people having in depth conversations about this shit on park and I'm like, where the fuck did this even come from? Why is this a thing? It's like, are you safeer around a man or a bear? How about we have conversations about how.
These conversations blow up Because everyone's so obsessed with viral moments and getting the hashtag to get these these numbers up, it's become the it's like a chicken in the egg situation.
Yeah, I don't I don't be honest with you. I don't know what it is. I don't know what makes these things go viral.
I just know that we have to at the end of the chapter every chapter, I say lesson discussion because we got to start focusing on macros instead of micros, Like why are we having conversations about women?
What are you safe for around a man or a bear?
How about we just have conversations about how to make women safe period? What the fuck bear has got to do with it? It's it's just it's just silly to me. So it's just like, yeah, I want to just get us focused.
On just the macs, real discussion.
That's it.
Get to the real facts and keeping it honest.
That's it.
So please go get it, get honest, and die line while small talk sucks, available everywhere.
Uh, check out some of your other books if you really want to in depth conversation on Who's Charlemagne is? This hour definitely isn't gonna cut it the way I would like it. I love that. And one last thing, I was thinking about this, and I told Jordan back then, I was thinking about doing this. I'm actually thinking about hugging a tree. I'm that desperate right now.
Read I gotta I gotta chapter in my book. Read it.
I read it. I already read it, and it was like, I was like, what five or six minutes? You know the tree? He said, the New York trees are different from the other trees. I'm still trying to find a tree. You know what I'm saying.
Chapter is called tree hugged the block, get connected with nature, and we don't have to do another show for you. It might have to be called like, I don't wanna call it dating while desperate, because you're not desperate yet.
No, you said you're desperate. Just now you said you were desperate.
Desperate, desperate for peace. Peace.
Oh damnault.
Just be clear I'm single because well I'm still married, and integrity wise, this sounds really silly.
What about dating while marriage?
Integrity wise? I should do that integrity wise, I just can't do it while I'm legally like in my head, I'm like married, and then even if you go on a date, it's like, yeah, I'm married, but I'm separated and I'm gonna go No.
A lot of people go to this. I was.
I just did Pastor Kean's conference last weekend. He has a conference called The Crowd Conference, and him and Shannie were on stage having this conversation. He felt the same way. He felt the same exact way because he was separated. But you know, he knew perception wise, dating somebody like Shannie O'Neil, he didn't want people to look at her away and.
Say, oh, she's dating this married man.
But he was going through a separation, and so I don't if if I'm fucking this up, I'm sorry passed the keon, But I thought I heard him.
Say he couldn't live like that.
He still had to just he had to go connect with he had to go connect with Shani.
You know what I mean.
Oh wait, he couldn't live like what he he connected with her? Why No, No, I don't think they he obviously didn't.
Yeah, I just think that he didn't let the fact of everybody's perception.
It's not even about the person. Maybe I'm getting that wrong.
No, it's not about the perception. I don't care because my husband fully admits he's a he's a superhore. But I'm it's not the perception at this point. Trust me, he's done enough to blow up any type of secrecy. But I'm saying that integrity wise. I know in my mind I made a commitment, right, So I'm like, yo, let me just.
But you're going through a separation. If I'm not mistaking, patter Keyon said he did want He wanted to wait because he didn't want people to think that he was that that that he was cheating on his wife and Shaanie was messing up a happy home. If I'm getting that wrong, I'm sorry, pater Keyon, but it sounds very similar to me.
So I think we should.
Do dating while I'm married with Colleen and have her in here interviewing potential candidates.
Oh that's hilarious, right to this person, they said, because.
There's no better reference check than putting somebody out there publicly, because not even like, oh no I know him, go I dated him. Now that people will be hitting you up. They can't hide hilarious dating while married. Dolly, let's do it.
No, no, let's but I will say the reason why I want to hug the tree and stuff is because I do feel. And I was telling Jordan, it's the older I get, the more I am driven towards happiness or I mean peace over happiness. I could care less about a high when I know the low can come around the corner. I just give me a flat line. And I used to never be like that. So when I saw the tree hugging, Dolly made me do grounded
because I ran away to her house. At one point I short it and she was like, take off your shoes, go in the yard and walk in the grass. And I was like, okay, Dolly, I'm saying I did it, but I'm like, maybe we could try a tree huggain. I'm starting to get into like meditating. Well I haven't started. I've been reading books about meditation. I'm that desperate to do those things. Not day, I think I deserve a nice break of being single. But we can play the dating show.
If you want.
I like it.
You're hilarious. Thank you so much for your time. I bagged, borrowed, stealed, harassed your entire team to the point that Dolly called me and said, if you want shar just call me and asked me when you're ready. And I did it and she delivered it, and I was literally like, oh, she did it.
I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
Thank you for I get to keep it. You get to keep it, all right.
Peace out, guys.
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