Our Dreams and Ambitions

Hi, welcome back to Eat Your Crust Podcast. I'm Jisoo. And I'm Crystal. I think we need to talk about our dreams and ambitions. I don't know about you, but I feel like as we get older, our dreams... goals and stuff are starting to change and i think at this current age it's starting to really show in in my mind at least we thought it would be fun to chat about our dreams and ambitions at this current life stage. Do you have any particular dreams, ambitions, goals that come to mind? Yes and no.

I feel like in the last five years, my dreams and ambitions, like you said, have really changed. And one of the most distinctive changes that I can see is i think when i used to think about dreams and ambitions when i was a younger kid it used to be more career focused like i wanted to have this kind of job and i wanted to be making this much money and

I think like half of my dreams and ambitions as a child was about what kind of office I would have. Oh my god. Like a office in a high-rise, private room, like that kind of thing. But I don't know if it's like my hormones or something or just being like... in my late 20s post marriage now, but I feel like my biggest dream is to just have like a very happy, tiny little like nuclear family.

which sometimes I think about it. I'm like, my dream is setting back feminism by like three decades. Also at the same time, like that's just what I want. Like that's like what I want the most for myself and my life. I mean, I feel like that's very normal. Like some guys also have that dream to have a kid and to have a happy family. And I think it's a very natural want. What do you think is the most exciting about having a family? Yeah, that's a good question.

The way I see it, the family is the fundamental life experience for me. That's like my base unit. I almost see myself as someone who's a part of a family. That's why the family experience is so important to me. It kind of translates to the greatest... long-term project in my life is like my family honestly that makes sense i can see what you mean Yeah, so I guess my biggest dream is being a PM for my family. Oh my God, it's just your career dream moved over into family.

And I don't know, sometimes I feel self-conscious that this is like my biggest dream and my biggest ambition because a lot of people have very career-oriented dreams and ambitions. I feel like if I had to... define a career related dream right now. I eventually want to be in a very managerial position.

But I don't know. I used to say like, oh, I want to be in the C-suite in the next X number of years or at least like a VP. And I felt like I could see myself doing things like that and wanted to grow my skill set into that direction. But now that I am where I am right now, I'm like, is it just better to have a chill job with like a chill work-life balance so that I could be there at pickup and drop off for all my kids? Not that you can't do both, but you know, my priorities are just like shit.

Maybe I could sacrifice a little bit more here so that I could be there more often for my family. I don't know. Yeah, this is a very traditional way of thinking. You joked how you're like, this is bringing feminism back by like 20 years. I don't think it's that dramatic. Because realistically, yeah, I think if anyone were to start a family, those are thoughts that they would have.

How do I be there for the family? Is there any area that I need to adjust? How do I like rebalance my life with this new upcoming, we'll call it a project. So I feel like those are very normal thoughts to have. But yeah, I think it's definitely like a big change, especially because you'll probably have to like, take a bit of a break from work for a little.

I guess like reassess your career in a sense. How much are you willing to put into that? Or like, do you really need to be C-suite or something like that? Yeah. recently I've been putting like my observation cap on at work and low-key observing and sometimes even like asking women around me female co-workers who have kids seeing how they balance their schedule like seeing

what they can slot into their day, asking them questions about like, do you feel like it's hard to do this? You know, what tips have you like? gained over the last few years after you have your kid and things like that so I've been trying to gain and like amass as much knowledge as possible yeah to prepare myself and it's been cool I mentioned earlier that

I would rather have a chill work-life balance instead of gunning for like an executive role. But honestly, when you look at people around you, like so many people ride that balance very well. But many women are so more than capable of handling both workloads at the same time. So hopefully... I'll get there. I think that's like my long-term goal of being like a career woman, climbing up the corporate ladder, things like that, while also having a family and really being there for my kids.

Sometimes I just think a lot of womanhood is about like sharing this knowledge, passing things down generation and generation. Ooh, yeah. Actually, that reminds me of this TikTok I once saw where someone was like,

Women have menopause. One way you can think about the reason for that is that women at a certain point don't need to procreate anymore and they can just... spend the rest of their lives passing down knowledge I guess the argument was like versus men they always are able to procreate so that's just their main duty I guess

I've also seen people say women have to learn tips and tricks in their life to protect themselves from outside external dangers and whatnot. So then they want to pass that knowledge on to other people.

who may not know the ropes yet. And I remember even growing up, like I would always get all these tips from like my aunts and stuff. And I'm so used to like asking other women for advice. So I feel like this is just the natural progression. How do I... live life in my 30s you know so true so true and also on another note i have seen lots of women be like directors and also have children and i feel like that's a pretty good in between you like no need to be necessarily uh

president or like a c-suite but they're in a pretty powerful and successful position dude and i feel like one of the big pros of being a director at least in big corporations Is that you usually end up getting like an assistant. And then that like helps a lot. It is interesting though. Like.

I mean, I'm not like really actively counting, but I feel like I have some sort of mental tally of when female coworkers will be like, oh, I have to go pick up my kids versus male coworkers. And I feel like it's... More commonly the female ones that worry about like the daycare pickup and whatnot. So I don't know. I'm sure it's different family to family. Yeah. But in a way, I wonder if it's something that the woman ends up taking on a little bit more often.

It's time to turn James into a trophy husband. True, as long as the household makes it out okay, right? But how about you, Crystal? What do you think is your current...

big dream or ambition dude i honestly don't know so if you listen to the podcast last year you could probably tell that i was having a lot of existential crises And I can't lie, this year is just the same. And I feel like a lot of these crises are my thoughts on like, oh my God, what am I trying to achieve in life right now? Are these... goals or ambitions or dreams applicable to me are they what i want if they are like what is the next step or like what do i need to do

I guess like one of the big questions is, and we did talk about this before too, do I want to have kids? What does marriage even mean? Like all that kind of stuff. So I had to like come to terms with what was maybe holding me back or causing fear in my thoughts about these things. I don't think I shared it because it was more of a recent revelation.

I actually fear falling into really traditional roles in marriage. So kind of like what you were talking about too. I don't want to be the person who has to like give up their career. just to like you know be in a family and I don't want to be the one who

ends up always doing the household chores because somehow my career has become way less important in the household. Or, you know, I'm like always serving my... potential husband or whatever it just feels very like wrong to me and it is not aligned with my values so I think because I grew up seeing a lot of that it instilled some sort of subconscious fear

of marriage then so now I'm like grappling with that honestly that's a good point because I feel like a lot of how we see the world and how we see these things structures like marriage and whatnot is so impacted by what we know like in our childhood i think you're either okay with it Or you want to like change or like fight it in a way. Like I think I also grew up seeing similar things as you and I'm like kind of okay with it.

Obviously, I would tweak it, but I think at the end of the day, I'm okay with a structure like that in a sense. But I can also see how if that's not... what you want it would make me question is marriage then what i want like as a family than what i want i think to an extent our age right now this is where we really start fighting things like that you know what i mean so much of what

I've wanted at a younger age was kind of like handed to me on a silver platter like oh you want to be this job or like you want to be this position and I'm like okay yeah you're right and then now I'm like do I? and I think it's like it's crazy too because part of me is like not even sure what my career ambitions are so it's like oh god how can I have ambitions in like any part of my life I don't think I have it figured out at all

Do you think in a way it's also like things feel easier when you're younger? So like having a dream or an ambition feels lighter? And then now that we're older, maybe it feels more real. And we're just like, oh, do we want to label this as our dream? Oh, my God. Absolutely. I had the same kind of dreams as you did. And as a kid, I was like, oh, my God, can't wait to become an adult, have a job. have an office, just like what you're thinking.

And then now it's like, okay, well, we're just in an open layout, open floor plan. You're like, there's no cubicles here. And like, there's no high rises that at least in the suburbs. But then like that was like kind of. all the dreams substance, you know, there wasn't anything else to it. Like, what am I doing in this office? You know, what is my role? And now it's like, okay, I actually know the structure of corporate ladder or whatever.

And so, yeah, like you said, it just feels way more real. And it's like, oh, well, if I'm going to make a goal or have an ambition, I have to have specifics for it now. And it's like, what does that mean?

once you like put more into it yeah i feel like this is why sometimes i find myself being envious of people who have very detailed things that they want for themselves in life whether that's career or not I think you just have to really want it to be able to even draw up something detailed about it. And I think the only thing that I've really wanted was, again, this dream of having a family and being a mom and stuff like that.

In that world, I have a lot of visions. I have a lot of things mapped out in terms of what I want. But yeah, in the career and like office and, you know, that kind of stuff, it's like very fleeting visions. If you were to ask me, like, what's the title that you want to be 15 years from now? Like, I have no idea. I just be living my day to day in that sense. So that's why I feel like it's.

harder to have like a career specific dream or ambition and honestly I feel like it's really good that you do know in one aspect of your life what you really want Because then you can, as you said, like you're able to have more ideas and like visions and like know what you want within this realm of like having a family. So then it's easier to like. build the vision around that core value right i'm envious of that a little bit i only know like one very vague ambition or dream of mine

which is I want to eventually be my own boss, I guess. Hopefully I can manage to find a way to work for myself and not have to be confined to like... you know all the corporate stuff and like that but it's like such a vague dream i have no solution for it how do i get there what is that you know like what does the role entail

that's a good dream actually and it's so funny because i've actually never wanted that for myself because growing up my dad used to run his own business for a little bit so i'm just like damn that's like A lot of work. But knowing you, knowing how quickly you achieve your own dreams, I'm like, I could totally see that happening for you. Wow. Thanks.

i feel like i don't even need people working under me as long as it's like just me and sustainable that's pretty good already i would claim that as reaching the goal well you know what's so funny too is like the more we talk about this stuff

I'm so curious. If we were to do this recording like four years ago, what would we have said? I feel like you might have said... living by yourself dude yes i have no idea what i would have said maybe you would still say family yeah probably or something related to that yeah i feel like that's a very core value for you i guess the question that comes to mind is does what

we qualify as a dream and ambition change as we age or is it more just like we're checking things off like you already completed the living by yourself thing so it's no longer a dream or ambition it's just your reality right oh wait i do have a dream news alert crystal has a dream oh my god thank god you brought this up because it's actually a it's a very big dream of mine

And it's kind of related to living alone, but it's like the next level. So the dream is to be a homeowner. I want to be the sole homeowner of a property. Hell yeah. Because then I'll be able to... do whatever i want to it you know put as many holes in the wall as i want like paint the walls whatever color i want yeah like all of that kind of stuff and i know this is like a dream that you're actively working towards too so it's maybe like your current big dream

you know okay actually i have thought about this before and i think i just haven't thought about dreams and ambitions in a while so it wasn't top of mind when we started this episode but i do kind of have or had a view about the state of my personal dreams and ambitions in the grand scheme of life, which is... Probably four years ago, I was also thinking like, yeah, marriage and like kids and that kind of stuff is all part of our natural life progression. Lately, I've been questioning it more.

But back then, my thought was always, well, if that's going to come, you know, like sharing my life with someone and potentially having a kid and therefore your life really becomes about the kid. My thought was like, then I have to achieve as many slash all of my dreams and ambitions before getting into that. Oh, my God. You're like blowing my mind a little bit. That's wild. Wow.

Because then like once those things come along, it's not about you anymore. That's a good point. You can still work towards things, of course, and still... fight for your dreams and ambitions, but you'll just have other things in the household to also keep afloat. So when it comes down to prioritizing, your thing may not be the first on the list. Yeah, exactly.

I think it started to feel like a time pressure. And so in more recent years, I've been like trying to release that pressure, not think about the time. restraint as much so maybe that's why my dreams and ambitions have scattered a little or like softened a little i don't know damn do you think guys think about this time pressure thing no

This is just the female experience. I mean, to an extent too, I think this also just applies to slowly as we age, we just become more... realistic and practical and think about the logistics behind everything so i think it's also just how our dreams evolve and how we like choose to shape them as well but what is that age cut off is the question right like when do dreams morph from visions of me in a high-rise glass office into like

What do I have to do in the next eight years to achieve this five-step plan type of thing? Okay, so I have a younger cousin. I think they were either 22 or 23. So they're like pretty young. pretty like fresh out of school and all of that. And my brother and I, we noticed that our little cousin is very ambitious right now. He's like, yeah, I'm all about the grind. You know, I'm really into my work right now and I want to achieve these things. And my brother and I...

To be fair, my brother and I are pretty similar that we're more like laid back for most things. And so we were kind of like, dude. We're just like. Yeah, I guess, you know, keep at it. But like in our minds, we're kind of like, dude, my brother was like ready to quit at that time. He's like, I want to take a sabbatical. And I'm like, yeah, I'm just thankful I have so much flexibility at work right now. Thank you.

And so I think at one point I said something like, that's how you feel now, but just wait a couple of years, you're going to get jaded like us. And then my brother was like, oh, Crystal, don't say that. Just let him have his moment. Let him go all in and whatever. And I was like, damn, my brother's right. I should just zip my mouth and let this dude go through everything. And maybe because he has such powerful ambitions now, it could carry over.

I feel like there's definitely a point in the late 20s where you become a little more jaded for some of these things. And you're like, okay, some of these ambitions were a little ambitious. Let's like... take a step back, look at reality, what is achievable and reasonable so we don't have to like stress ourselves out so much to try to reach some really intense goal.

That's a good point. And I feel like at many points of my life, I was your cousin. Like, I never stopped, climbed the corporate ladder, like that kind of thing. I wonder if it's like you just have to reach... some level of failure and i don't mean failure in a completely negative sense of like i crashed and burned but more of just like you hit that point where you're like actually what i wanted for myself was

bigger than what i could provide for myself or like what i could reach right now or if it's just observing other people around you you know I can't have been the only person who went into my career thinking that I could do this in X number of years. and other capable people around me have not been able to reach that so maybe it's not as realistic i don't know what it is but i feel like i

It must have been around like age 26-ish that I started to feel really jaded. Now I've crossed the bridge and become this like shake my cane at, you know, kids on the lawn type of person.

in a way i wonder if we all carried that energy of your cousin like into our 30s and 40s like if we could just achieve more like is it a self-fulfilling prophecy of like oh i feel like i can't achieve this i'm gonna lower my dreams or i'm gonna lower my expectations and then we just hit lower dreams and ambitions honestly maybe

I think you're right. Like if we were still really excited and like super ambitious about certain things, we would probably dig up the energy somehow. Right. I think also on my end. I maybe stopped looking at bigger long-term goals that were like vague and undefined. Started to look more at like, okay, what is the next step? And like how reasonable or how should I approach this goal?

If I can't achieve it, because sometimes, especially in the corporate ladder, sometimes you actually just can't achieve something because of certain blockers, whether it's like, you know, a team that doesn't support you properly or this role wasn't actually.

that fitted for you you know that kind of stuff so it's like how reasonable is this next goal and if it's not reasonable or not possible then like how do I pivot and that's like kind of how I think of things now but I guess it's like the biggest thing is like putting less time restraint on it yeah and I think the other thing too is sometimes like finding out you don't even want what you were working for or what you thought was such a big dream

i think there was a point where i wanted to climb the ladder and shoot up to like a higher position after years of working towards that i was like Is that even what I want for myself? Is this end goal just me chasing a title? Or do I actually want the lifestyle that comes with this role? It's not to say that...

I had that realization and then I turned down the job offer that was that role. Like obviously I was also like not getting there, but I think it's natural for dreams and ambitions to morph and shape into different things. So a lot I think just happens like in these progressions. That's true. Like sometimes I'll see someone in a certain position and I'm like, wait, that person's like hella busy. Yeah.

Like that's a lot of post 6 p.m. Slack messages. And then it's like, do I actually want that or? Right. You're so right because I think there was a moment. Multiple moments, actually, where I was like, is it worth it to become more than an IC, like individual contributor? Am I capable of taking care of other people? And like, is that something?

That level of work and care, something that I want for myself even. Honestly, still thinking about that. But the image is clearer and you have more to consider. So true. I don't know, maybe also part of it, maybe we're just like whittling down the dreams into, like you said, like achievable, like bite-sized steps, but also just why do I even want this? You know? Yeah.

I think something that you mentioned was like at the core of this like vision that I have for myself. What's like the real value in it all? Dude, actually, that is like a good point that you brought up because. We were kind of discussing this when we were planning this episode that some dreams have a basic core, but they can manifest in a lot of different ways.

So then maybe the idea is you figure out what that core dream is and how to pivot so that you can still get it. So one of the interesting examples that we had thought of was that there's this potential core... basic dream of wanting recognition, but then that can manifest in a lot of different ways because I have this secret dream that I want.

I want some level of like fame, I guess. But for you, maybe you also want recognition, but it just doesn't manifest in the like, I want fame necessarily. Right. I'm like, I want to be PTA president. You're like, I'm trying to be C-suite. CEO of my family. Yeah. But yeah, honestly, when we were talking about this before.

As we planned, that kind of blew my mind a little bit because it's very true. And I'm sure listeners who listen to our past episodes know that sometimes I can be like a big hater.

And one of the things that I semi enjoy hating on... is linkedin warriors who post a lot about their achievements and accolades and their dreams on linkedin it's all in jest like i don't obviously really truly hate these people but sometimes I find myself being like damn these people are really on this grind for something that why do they even want this but then

at the core of it don't we all just want like the same five core values you know what i mean yeah like maybe what i want for myself looks different from what they want but what we're chasing is still the same thing like at the root of it all So true. And it's like, oh, well, I think I can get this whatever this way. And someone else was like, well, I think I can get it through this avenue. Right.

I think it's just very interesting and it's an interesting time where we start to fork away from peers that we grew up with or other people in our age because...

When we're 17 years old, we're all just trying to get into whatever college, right? Yeah. And then post-college, everyone's paths and journeys look so vastly different. And I feel like at this age now, like I really... feel how different everyone's career paths are so it's always really cool one of the really cool experiences is catching up with a classmate you haven't seen in a really long time or you know stumbling upon people's announcements on like instagram or whatever and just being like

damn we were all just once in those little seats in school our dreams might have seemed so much more similar because We only had that vague idea of the future. Right. But now it's like starting to sharpen. Yeah. Like the image is clear.

sometimes i'm very like fascinated or i guess i don't know just captured by the individuality of it all i just cannot believe that we're all different people dude yeah it's like we're actually coming into our own selves yeah this totally makes me think about all those coming of age movies and books and stuff

Where there's like some point in the story where someone's like, oh, you're like different. You're this is not what we wanted for each other. You know, like we were best buddies and we had a plan together and all that. But it's like. Yeah, like you did want the same thing probably, but it's manifesting in different ways of achievableness. Now you're starting to separate a bit.

Yeah. And that's a lot for little kids coming of age. Yeah. And I think it's always actually very healthy to have a good mix of people around you, like in your social circle, like people who. want similar things and people who want completely different things and just living in that balance is always so enriching and rewarding.

In a sense, I think even building out these social circles is also just what I want to pass down to my kid as well. Like it's also in my mind, like working towards my personal goal of. creating like an enriching life for my kid so that they could see all these cool adults around them. Yeah, like making sure they're able to see a variety. yeah being able to almost pick and choose maybe like oh my god i love that this auntie you know is doing this in her job or like that uncle is like doing that

Look at all these different career paths you can embark on. You're like, I curated this for you. My unborn, unconceived child.

Okay, well, I have a final question for us. I know we talked a lot about how our dreams and ambitions have evolved a lot as we age. What do you think is the energy that really like helps to propel? keeping that alive in our late 20s. How do we keep the DNA alive? To shorten it. And I guess the... Flipside to that too is what do you think you're willing to sacrifice or like give up to prioritize and achieve your biggest DNA? Dude, this is tough. I guess like keeping the...

Dreams and ambition, the DNA alive. I think there is a maybe like necessity to it. It doesn't have to be like the biggest dream ever or like super ambitious. But I think it's always good to have something to work towards, even if you aren't super sure about everything else. at least having like one thing that you know you can work towards is helpful and like maybe feeling purposeful for a bit. And then also I think it just helps you force you to do stuff so that...

as you do stuff, maybe more things become clearer. Like as we've said throughout the episode, we've noticed for ourselves that as we go through life, certain things become more clear and we start to like understand ourselves a bit better.

I think that's important because if you run out of something to keep you going, then that's probably when you're hitting like burnout or depression, right? Right. Things start to unravel and then it's like a lot of... difficult times and like hard times to pull yourself back together I don't know it's like hard to say because also everyone handles depression and like burnout differently but I do think

it's helpful to have your mind focused on something achievable. Yeah, I think I totally agree with that. And something I've been thinking about lately is like, You know how people, when they have traumatic relationships, they like... have a lot of things that weigh on their mind from that relationship. Maybe a lot of fears and jadedness and like trauma and stuff like that.

I feel like the same thing can happen in your career if you had a job that was very toxic that baggage can really weigh on you and you can sometimes even carry that into your next job i feel like that's also something that maybe should be talked about more or i don't know just like we need to also process that like the same way that someone would be encouraged to process like a traumatic romantic relationship yeah

I think not letting your jadedness and trauma from a different job or from like a specific period in your career maybe carry on with you into other jobs I think is very important. Part of that too is not getting swept up in the day-to-day all the time. Taking... purposeful breaks away from the day-to-day because sometimes your monday through friday feels so busy and crazy you don't always have time to step back and look at the big picture so i feel like

Part of keeping the dreams and ambitions alive is like allowing yourself to dream and not just doing the nine to five grind. Yeah, because I'm also thinking like your dreams and ambitions can totally be outside of work. Right. I'm just thinking of like, you know, tiny like goals that I might have in the day to day life. Oh, I want to finish this book or like I want to watch this TV show or like, I mean.

These are very silly goals, but they're still kind of goals, right? Like micro dreams. I hope I can play this game with friends or improve in this game, reach a certain level. And so it doesn't have to be so like... intense every like dream and ambition has to be like a life-altering thing yeah and i feel like that can hopefully bring little pieces of happiness and then

If you are finding comfort in these things, then maybe it helps you find that energy to get away from the more toxic parts of your life, if that's what you're going through. Yeah, maybe it's like not putting so much weight on the idea of a dream and ambition. Like you don't have to have the dream. You could have lots of dreams. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I guess like in terms of...

Giving up something to achieve a dream or ambition, I think that's totally reasonable. Like you said, you want to have a family, and sometimes that might mean a dream or an ambition has to be scaled back. possibly even like given up, you can't have everything. Yeah. So it's like very reasonable, I think. And sometimes that is maybe the hardest part. It's like, oh shoot. I'm at a crossroads. Like either I achieve this or I achieve that. Which one am I willing to like deprioritize?

I feel like at our current stage of life, I don't feel like I've personally had to give up a lot yet. But I wonder if that's... a new chapter we unlock in our like 30s or something of really learning to prioritize learning to weigh out how much you want something so I'm just waiting for it you know I'm like anticipating it a little bit yeah

I think I'm similar to you. I haven't had any crazy crossroads like that either yet, but I'm sure there's going to be a lot that come up the more complicated or more mature our lives get. Right. Well, thank you so much, Jisoo, for chatting about such a complicated yet vulnerable topic. There's kind of a lot to these like dreams and ambitions. And thank you for sharing so much.

Hopefully for our listeners out there, you can relate somewhat to some of our confusion, some of our commitment, a bit of everything that we shared. If you have any thoughts, feel free to leave us a comment on Spotify or reach out to us on social media at eatyourcrustpod. Or you can always reach us via email, eatyourcrustpod at gmail.com.

And if you'd like to catch our other episodes, then don't forget to follow us on Spotify, Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. We upload new episodes every other Wednesday morning. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to eat your crust. you