Give the People What They Want | 1

You want to know the easiest way to make a million dollars? I'll give you a hint. It isn't ransom or armed robbery. I'm talking a simpler way, a cleaner way. No guns, no brute force. And not even that much hard work. At least not for folks like me. All it takes is a trustworthy smile and an understanding of one simple truth. There's nothing people crave more than easy.

Money. You dangle that chance in front of them, and they won't just open their purses and wallets. They'll throw them at you. Now that you got your hook in, the trick is not to oversell. Effort arouses suspicion, and suspicion loves details. You want to give them just enough to get excited. Then, once their imagination takes over, it only picks up speed. draws in others, builds momentum. It's like a snowball. You give it a little nudge downhill, and it will turn into an avalanche on its own.

Because human nature is as predictable as it is powerful, which is why it works every single time.

More than 100 victims are tied up in this $39 million Ponzi scheme. Two top officials now facing charges in a Ponzi scheme. The judge called it one of the largest Ponzi schemes in Utah history. $7 billion Ponzi scheme run by Texas billionaire. told senior employees yesterday that his business was a giant Ponzi scheme.

See, anybody could steal a wallet in the dark. But getting people to hand over their money willingly again and again, to believe it was their own idea, and then to bring their friends along? That's how you get the big scores. And at a certain point, we're not even talking about business anymore or crime. We're talking about making history.

This is Easy Money, the Charles Ponzi story, an Apple original podcast produced by Atwill Media. This show incorporates real interviews and historical research alongside dramatic reenactments and actors' voices.

Come on in guys. Thank you. When you're covering a story that's 100 years old, like the one I'm about to tell you, one of the biggest problems is being able to feel close to it. Even when there's lots of pictures and reporting from the time to fill out all the little details, it can still be hard to feel a real human connection to it. Which is why I flew to Massachusetts to speak with Scott Ginecco about his great-aunt Rose.

She was born in 1895 and lived to be 98 years old. I knew Rose for quite a long time as a young man. She was very, very soft-spoken. And I don't know if that is true going back further. Yes, it is. I was pretty close to her, actually, for a while. Scott's mother, Betty, is there too, reminiscing about Rose. She was pretty shot. How was she shorter than she was? Oh, she couldn't have been five feet tall. I doubt if she was even five feet. Probably four, ten, four, nine, I don't know. Yeah.

Would you agree that she was a pretty snappy dresser and she had some nice jewelry? She wasn't flamboyant though with it.

And while I did certainly want to know about Rose, since she will be a key player in this story I'm telling, the thing that really helped bring these people from the past to life for me was the pile of letters sent to Rose. which Scott dug up ahead of my visit. Can we look at some of these letters together? Yeah, sure. This, I believe, from April 1935 is the oldest one. There's a lot there.

Here, my dear Rose, don't forget that the days I shall be waiting for your reply seem like centuries to me. So this is a typed letter addressed to my dear little girl. There's always dear little girl, dear sweetheart. With a love which neither distance, time, nor grievance can suppress. Charlie. Charlie.

a.k.a. Charles Ponzi, the man who, in just nine short months in 1920, stole the equivalent of a quarter billion dollars from tens of thousands of people, etching his name into history and our language in the process. Yet for all his infamy, for all the thousands of people who shook his hand back in 1920, it's extremely difficult to find anyone alive with any insight into Ponzi's personal life.

let alone people like Scott and Betty, who have an actual connection to him. Ponzi or one of his clerks will put money in a box or a bag. And my grandfather, when the bag was full, was taking it somewhere. Does that sound about right? He was putting it somewhere for months. Yeah. So he, my God, so my grandfather was, he might have been 15 years old around that time. Oh, wow. So he was helping him out.

Teenagers running bags of money to the bank, secret love letters, and especially that sign-off, Charlie. Such an unassuming name. All such humanizing details for a man whose name would come to define one of the simplest, most destructive frauds in history, whose legacy is a cautionary tale we still haven't fully learned today.

I'm Maya Lau, a journalist and financial investigator. I've long been obsessed with how people think about money, how we can be anxious about it, attracted to it. suspicious of it, and sometimes addicted to it. Even if we know better, money just has a pull on us. Which is why this story, the story about the birth of the Ponzi scheme as we know it, is of particular interest to me.

Because being conned isn't a matter of intelligence. It's a matter of desire. It's about being given what we already want, which is why Ponzi schemes remain so prevalent, because we're all potential victims. The Metro Atlanta man is accused of running a $300 million Ponzi scheme to fund his lavish lifestyle. The Sarasota man who financed mansions, private jets, and luxury cars by luring 700 victims into a complex multi-million dollar...

Ponzi schemes have swallowed up tens of billions of dollars in the U.S. over the past decade alone. You've probably heard of Bernie Madoff, easily the most famous Ponzi schemer, whose investors lost $65 billion. Yes, that's billion with a B. His idea involved investing in financial markets. But pretty much anything can be turned into a Ponzi scheme. Commercial real estate, liquor licenses, even emu farms and Hollywood blockbusters.

That's because all it really boils down to is a simple, straightforward lie told over and over and over, stealing from one investor to keep another one happy, and then stealing from another investor to make that last one you stole from happy. Over and over. Until eventually, it collapses. I mean, it's a pretty simple concept. I think as long as people have had the gift of gab and have been inclined to commit crimes, that kind of fraud has been ongoing and it will continue to be ongoing.

That's Jordan Maglich, an attorney specializing in recovering money stolen in Ponzi schemes. He also runs the website PonziTracker.com, which calls itself the Ponzi Scheme Authority. And there are a lot of schemes to track. It's almost a game of whack-a-mole when one of these things gets discovered or uncovered, then another one quickly takes its place. And so do you think that your site...

captures the magnitude of the Ponzi schemes that are out there. These are schemes that have come to regulators' attention for several reasons, but I have no doubt that there are plenty of new schemes out there that are currently ongoing.

that just haven't imploded yet. If you still don't understand exactly what a Ponzi scheme is, don't worry. It's going to be a big part of this story. For now, the big question is, who was Charles Ponzi? It's not just some fluke of history that his name is etched into our language a century later. In the early 1920s, Charles Ponzi was a really big deal. For someone who was only 5'2", he was larger than life.

A poor immigrant who became one of the richest and most famous people in the country, who at one point was making more than a million dollars a day in cash. That's about $15 million today. He was called the Wizard of Finance. The headlines of the nation's biggest newspapers charted his swift rise and even swifter fall.

which resulted in what was then the biggest theft in American history. Oh, there's a perfectly good explanation for all that. It just takes some time to get through is all. So you'll have to bear with me. And we will... But before we get into that, this is a good time to note that obviously all of the original characters in this 1920s story are sadly dead. So our Ponzi, who you just heard and who you'll hear throughout the series...

is in fact the voice of the award-winning comedian and actor Sebastian Maniscalco, who also happens to be the spitting image of Charles Ponzi. Go on, Google it for yourself. Anyway, throughout this show, we'll be dramatizing key moments with Ponzi and other characters to help bring this wild story to life. Everything in our show, from the factual narration to our expert interviews to these dramatic scenes.

are all based on our deep research into this story. I'm talking hundreds and hundreds of newspaper articles, memoirs, court records, biographies and histories, and of course, love letters. like the ones I was looking at with Rose's family. There's no telling how many letters this guy wrote, actually. I can't believe you got all them letters. Perhaps I made a mess of your life, but if...

But it was not for lack of the necessary sentiment. It is more probable that loving you to excess was what made me... I can't really read that. There's a couple things to note about these letters. The first is we only have Ponzi's side of the correspondence, since he discarded all of his personal papers near the end of his life, including anything Rose had sent him in response.

But we can tell from his letters that Rose was writing back to him, and it's very clear the affections weren't just one-sided. The second thing to note is almost no one has read these letters. Both Scott and Betty seemed like they were looking at them properly for the first time. And I'm one of the only people outside the Geneco family to ever lay eyes on them. There's a reason for that.

You said that your family's understanding was that even though she kept these, that once she died, her wish was that they be destroyed. That's how I know it. She never wanted them. anybody to read these I think it me personally I mean There's nothing here that puts her in a bad light by any means, and it's part of history. Yeah. So what do you think it says that she kept...

All these letters. She must have loved them still, right? To keep them in the periodic correspondence. You know, I think she was kind of probably conflicted. And I think that happens, right, regardless of the things he had done. They really, really, truly loved each other, hence his writing to her until basically until the day he died.

I think if he didn't let his ego get in the way and he just did things the right way, my guess is they would have been happily married. It's hard to feel bad for a guy like this, but in a way I do. I guess I do too, up to a point. Because although Charles Ponzi was a real person with hopes and dreams, who faced hardship and unfairness in his life, he's also someone who did real damage to other people.

And while I don't think he necessarily did so intentionally, not at first anyway, we can't look past that. In fact, we need to stare straight at it because it helps us understand how a regular person from such a humble beginning could start a scam that got so out of control.

Before this all happened, he also ran, there was Gineco Brothers. Fruit stand. Gineco Brothers, yeah, produce. He was probably able to take it over again because of his salesmanship and thinking he could make something of it. I'd be curious of what happened. happened there. And that's actually where we're going to start things off, at a key moment for Charles Ponzi and Rose, a proverbial fork in the road.

It was January 1919. Ponzi and Rose had been married for about a year, and Ponzi soon quit his job to take over his father-in-law's struggling produce stand. Despite Ponzi's natural ability as a salesman, the Geneco family fruit stand soon went bankrupt, leaving him at a low point. Rose, your boy Wander has returned. How did it go?

Well, your father's officially bankrupt and your husband is officially unemployed. But luckily, just as handsome as ever. At least you tried. You know, my uncle said he'd give us a loan. Just to help us get through. Oh, you asked your uncle for money? He offered. I don't need his money. Then we'll figure something else out. I'm sure you can always get your old job back. No, I can't go back to clerking. Rose, I can't do that.

What's all this about? I'm 37. Yes, that's not new information. Soon I'll be 40. Impressive math. See, you could still be a clerk. I'm being serious. And if we have a family... If? When. I meant when. What I'm saying is there's no more rolls of the dice after that. I'm done filling everyone else's pockets while mine stay empty. Look where that's gotten my father.

Because fruit isn't a big idea. So what's your big idea then? I don't have one yet. I mean, I've had plenty of ideas before, but none right now. Because I just haven't had the time, and now I do. That's my point. This is the moment. And if I just run back to some clerking job, I'll be trapped there forever. Charlie, we have everything we need. We...

Don't. Not a place big enough for my mother to come visit. What do you mean? She can stay here. No, trust me. She can't. Not here. Not my mother. You know what she's like. Is that what this is about? Charlie, it's touching how much you care about her, how much you want to impress her. I know she's sophisticated and exacting and has some romantic ideas about your life, but she's on the other side of the world.

And it is your life. What do you want? Because I also know this is something you do. You get excited about big ideas and let your imagination run wild. And I love that about you. I do. Go with me on this, Rose. Just imagine. In fact, come here. The fire escape? It's snowing out. Oh, just a moment. Come on, take my hand.

What if we saw something else? Something beyond this, the factories, the unpaved roads. What if we weren't living downstairs from our landlord? I like Mrs. Lombardi. And paved roads? That's what's on your mind? Of course the water heater is loud and the floorboards creak. Of course things could be better, but aren't you happy? I thought we were happy. It's okay to want more, Rose.

you deserve more besides if i was my own boss i could set my own hours i don't know maybe take an extra day around the holidays soon i might not even have to work at all oh really What will you do instead? I don't know. Maybe travel around the world with my beautiful wife. Take her to Italy. See the motherland. Maybe even Paris. Everybody wants to see Paris. And our children? They'll come with us. And there'll be so many little Ponzi's. We'll look more like a Navy fleet than a family.

Look out, Boston. I've got you in my sights. Not anymore, sir. Charles Ponzi won't be kept down anymore. You always do this. Get me dreaming when I'm perfectly fine with what we have. Do you always pretend not to like it? Can we go inside now? I'm freezing, absolutely. It's worth noting that about this decision to chase after dreams instead of finding a steady job, even Ponzi himself later said that, quote, sound judgment did not prevail.

By which I imagine he's acknowledging that this was a crossroads, a time he should have taken a different path, should have listened to Rose and gone back to clerking. He seems to know that choosing to strike out on his own is what sparked this story and all the subsequent drama.

But could this man, who was clearly desperate to provide riches for his family, and who was smart and charming and ambitious and full of self-confidence, could he really have made any other decision at this point? I'm not so sure. And I suspect Ponzi isn't either, which is probably why he doesn't have a lot else to say on the matter. Sound judgment did not prevail. I mean, that's quite an understatement given where everything landed in just over a year's time.

Who would ever imagine you could wind up in so much trouble just for giving people what they want?

The phrase white-collar crime wasn't coined until the 1930s, a decade after Ponzi's story took place. The same is true of the phrase American Dream. But that doesn't make either of those things any less central to what went on in Boston in 1920. In fact, the promise of the American Dream, though it lacked a name, was perhaps never stronger than it was in the early 1900s.

Waves of immigrants, booming economic growth, the rise of self-made industrial tycoons, and a stark contrast with rigid old world class systems. The United States felt like a land of limitless opportunity. where anyone could achieve success through hard work and ambition. And this idea that America was a haven for dreamers and strivers also created unrealistic expectations. For some, it was a rude awakening. As an immigrant, Ponzi faced pressures and hurdles that others didn't.

And he'd concluded that the system was rigged against him. In fact, we pick things up at the moment when this belief hardened into a dangerous resolve. What's your name again?

A Ponzi, sir. Right. And you've been a depositor here for... I see. No, a long time. 18 months, according to your application. It's as long as I've been in Boston, so in that sense, you know, it's a long time. No? The more I think about it, it's actually closer to 20 months, which is almost two years, which is almost as long as the great siege of Malta. My, an entrepreneur and a historian. May I take a closer look?

Oh, no, yeah, of course. Don't let me hoard the joy of my sublime penmanship. I was saying on the left is the projected revenue. You could see that the net profits are $15,000. And that's just for the first six months. It was the summer of 1919, and Ponzi had been trying for six months to strike it rich on his own.

He'd rented a nice office, decked it out with furniture, all bought on credit from a shady character you'll meet soon, and had tried his hand at importing and exporting various items from Europe. None of it stuck. He was forced to move on. Time and, more importantly, money was running out, just as he finally came up with a winning idea. An advertising journal. That's your idea? The world's leading advertising journal.

All Ponzi needed was a couple thousand dollars to help print the first edition, to make his idea a reality. He tried to raise funds elsewhere to no avail, which is how he found himself seated across from Henry Schmielinski. president of a local bank, the Hanover Trust. It will be more effective than any other because this one will have different editions tailored for different markets. How innovative. So...

It will be printed in different languages. Exactly, and with different products in each. For example, an Eskimo, after all, has about as much interest in refrigerators or electric fans as a Congolese has in fur coats and heating appliances. You have certainly thought of everything. And here is correspondence from prospective advertisers all excited to be in business with me. Clearly the idea is a winner. Not to suggest that you can't see that for yourself.

Well, I have to say, this is all very impressive. Have you gone to anyone else with this proposal of yours? No, no. You're the first. Good, good. Then may I suggest that we keep it that way. You mean keep it exclusive to you? To do a deal? No, I meant more like to save you any further embarrassment. Oh, I'm sorry? Your idea is dull. Your business plan is wildly optimistic, and to top it off, your account balance is almost zero.

Now you've put effectively no money into this institution and now you expect us to hand out thousands of dollars? Well, it's a loan. Until the business fails and you don't repay it. And then it becomes a handout. It's just $1,000. No, I can't give you $1,000. I can't approve any law. You can. You're the bank president. I won't approve it, then. Is that clearer?

Your account is, to be frank, more of a bother than a benefit to us. Now I have to attend to other matters. Just wait, hold on. Just let me run for the proposal again. Maybe take it from the top. A little wisdom. A man's true worth is in how he handles the door being slammed in his face. But Mr. Schmielinski... Good day, Mr. whatever it was. It's Ponzi. Charles Ponzi.

And Mr. Charles Ponzi would never forget this moment. He was determined more than ever to make his mark on the world. To show everyone who'd underestimated him, which is to say, almost everyone, just what he was capable of. And also now, to exact revenge. Ah, a man's true worth is how he handles himself when the door is slammed in his face. Pompous bastard. I made a promise to myself. Someday, I'll make a meat out of my hand. Someday soon. And boy, did I.

When they next met, Schmielinski would have no idea that the millionaire sitting across from him was the same man he'd humiliated less than a year earlier. But wait.

How do we know Ponzi swore to take revenge on Shmuelinski that day? How do we know it was going through his head? Well, because luckily for us, Ponzi left behind a memoir. And despite how famous Ponzi was at his peak...

He couldn't even get it published during his lifetime. We have access to it now only because one of the stray copies he'd sent out eventually made its way into print decades after it was written. It's a book that relatively few people have read, considering how well-known his name is.

And it gives us a window into his mindset, providing us with his version of events. Although he was a fraudster, it's actually shocking how much of his account is true. Even the parts that are exaggerated or fabricated are helpful to understanding what happened. In fact, they might be the most helpful. The best fraudsters are people that truly believe the story themselves. That's Eugene Soltis, a professor at Harvard Business School who studies white-collar crime.

He's something of an expert on Ponzi schemers. And I think when we look at Charles Ponzi, when he writes that book, on one hand, we can look at it as being, oh my gosh, he's just exaggerating everything. He's larger than life. On the other hand, there's a part of me that thinks maybe he believes every line. That's actually how he sees himself. And if that's how he truly, genuinely sees himself, that's what makes him so effective.

is that he is not telling a lie to other people. And so maybe in the end, how he saw the world and what he was able to describe to people is really all that matters. Take that scene we just heard. Ponzi claims the banker Schmielinski really did make that comment about being more of a bother than a benefit. We can't verify that it happened exactly like that. But what matters is that it represents how Ponzi feels.

that he was being overlooked, underestimated, and condescended to, that bankers and the upper class were working only for themselves and keeping everyone else down. And it helps us understand how Ponzi rationalized what he was about to do.

Ponzi may have sworn revenge on Chmielinski, but it would have to wait for now. Ponzi needed to come up with some other way to keep hanging on. He and Rose had no money. In fact, there were thousands in debt. And as the summer of 1919 gave way to fall, Ponzi was surely wondering how long Rose would remain patient with his ambitions. Especially as the sacrifices started to mount on her, too. 500. For what? The baguette ones? The lot.

Rings as well. Nah, that's... Listen, think you might want to double-check the math on that? I'm a pawnbroker, not an appraiser. It's about what these are worth to me. These rings are my mother's. They're very old. I'm sure they are. But they're cheap diamonds, and age doesn't make them any more valuable. Jesus, fine. Fine. 800. Hey, Bobby! Hey, Bobby! For the love of God! Hey!

Hey, good afternoon, Mr. Daniels. I haven't seen you in a while. You trying to hide from me? Hardly. Here I am, in the flesh, as you can see. Well, you're lucky I don't conduct this sort of business with ladies present. But you're gonna come by my store this week and pay for all that furniture in full. Or I'll be paying you a visit. So...

You'll be taking the 500 then? Charles, help me understand why the furniture maker is threatening you. I don't think he'll be dropping by your office for tea and biscotti. 500 there. Well, perhaps it's easier if I just give this straight to that other gentleman. So thoughtful. 500 is a lot of money. How much is your office rent anyway? It's not just the current expenses, Rose. There's also, you know, previous expenses. You mean debt? Potato.

One of those will hurt a lot more if it's hurled at your head. The offer will go down to 400 soon to account for wasting my time. I could always go back to being a stenographer. We could save up, and then we could avoid all of this. You are a married woman. This situation is embarrassing enough as it is. I could hold on to her wedding ring, too. If that helps with appearances. Very considerate.

I know what you're thinking. Listen, you don't need to do this. Not for me. 500 going once. There's no shame in asking for your old job back. Rose, I... I just, I need a bit more time. And if it doesn't work out soon, then I'll figure something out. I'll go back to the clerking if I have to. Going twice? Tell me you believe in me. It's not about you, Charlie.

It's about everything else. I mean, the odds of people like us making it to them. Going three times. Give me a little bit more time, Rose. Please. All right. Do it. I believe in you. All right, all right, 500. But notice it's practically criminal. Come on, Charlie. It's done now. A pleasure. Cufflinks always sell well. For next time. Ponzi would later write, I looked everywhere for money, found it nowhere, gone into debt, pawned the family jewels, sold everything except my soul to the devil.

Even he knew he could get it for free if he held out a little longer. The devil may have been circling Ponzi, rubbing his hands together, but Ponzi was very close to the exact thing that would turn things around. He didn't know it yet, but he'd find it.

soon enough, lying patiently in his office. It's not just that Ponzi was running out of money, he was also running out of time. This was going to be his last shot at making a name for himself, which is why he started to sublet his office space to other businesses, to stretch out those last dollars as long as he could in hopes of finding last-minute success. Good night, Charles. Yeah, sure. The door of the office began to look like a directory, with my own name buried in the middle somewhere.

Overshadowed and indistinct. But what I lost in dignity, I gained in peace of mind. I had enough time for one last shot. And sometimes all you need is one last shot. Sitting alone in his office one night, Ponzi found himself sorting through his correspondence. Each letter was an expression of interest in his now non-existent trade journal, proof that he'd been onto a good thing all along, even if no one else could see it.

But that didn't matter now, because necessity, as they say, is the mother of invention. And just then, almost absentmindedly, Ponzi picked up a letter from Spain, and with it, he pulled out... a small piece of paper about the size of a stamp. It was an international reply coupon. These weren't exactly exciting or unusual, except in that precise moment, his mind was especially alert.

Hungry. Desperate. He bent down to pick it up and... That's it! In a flash of inspiration, he saw in this coupon a path to riches. This coupon was going to change everything. This coupon, heck, all of these coupons were basically free money. Like loose pennies on the ground. Easy to overlook, but with enough of them?

Just as good as gold. All you had to do was stoop down and pick it up. And I was going to prove that. This was it. Ponzi's big idea. The one that led to his name being remembered a century later. He spent the following weeks doing all sorts of calculations and tests, sending money off to Europe to develop the plan that was brewing in his head. His plan certainly seemed incredibly promising, but it was still in an embryonic state.

When... He was alone in his office when the furniture maker, Joseph Daniels, showed up to collect his overdue payment. Money that Ponzi obviously didn't have. You can't hide from me, Ponzi. I'm coming, coming. No need to shout. Good evening, Mr. Daniels. Apologize, I'm a busy man. Yeah, busy dodging creditors. Please excuse the mess. I wish you'd call the head so I could... Two hundred dollars. Weeks overdue.

And you'll be paying it tonight, one way or another. Right, yes, well, why don't you sit down? That chair is, I suppose, technically still yours. You might as well use it while we discuss the matter. Please. There's nothing more to discuss. No need for that, although your chair is clearly very sturdy. Good crap.

Craftmanship? You think this is funny? You think you can just talk your way out of this? No! That's not what I'm doing! I have been patient, Ponzi. Believe me, I'd much rather you have handed me over the money. But I've got a business to run. Okay? And if I start letting creditors skip out on payments without consequences, then I'm out of business. Consequences? Look, I completely understand your frustration. I do, but if you just let me get into my desk, then I can... Your desk?

Stay put. I'm not seeing any money in these drawers, Ponzi. Mr. Daniels, that's not what I... Give me your wallet. I would, but... I'm afraid your search there will be equally fruitless. But really, if you would just hear me out. Hear you out. Why? Why would I? Because I have your money. I mean, sort of. Just give me a chance to explain.

While I don't have your money per se... And pretty soon, you won't have your kneecaps per se. I do have something else that I promise is worth your time. Not to mention worth a lot more than $200, believe me. You got two minutes. And then we explore other repayment options. Coming up on this season of Easy Money.

No one sets out to create a billion dollar Ponzi scheme. I was such a sucker. He really never had to convince me in any way at all to invest with him. It says here that you're under investigation. Don't tell me you're losing faith in what we're doing here. The challenge of proving the negative in a Ponzi scheme is almost overwhelming. You don't call this guy a fraud, let alone a Ponzi, unless you have proof. Feels like fate, doesn't it?

Easy Money, the Charles Ponzi story is an Apple original podcast produced by Atwill Media, recorded and hosted by me, Maya Lau. Our producers are Matt Hickey and Brigham Snow. Production support from Anne-Margaret Orner, Leeming Jistu, and Taylor Hosking. The show is written by Matt Hickey and Kevin Hines, with additional writing from Maya Lau and Brigham Snow.

Our audio editor is Andrew Holzberger, with support from Greg Devins II and Zach Crapone. Field recordings by George Hicks. Original music is by John Natchez. Sound design and mix engineering by Sound & Vision. Scripted scenes directed by Katie Finneran. Casting for scripted scenes by Daryl Eisenberg, CSA. Fact-checking by Sona Avakian.

Ashley Taylor is our senior supervising producer. Executive producers are Will Malnati and Sebastian Maniscalco. Our co-executive producer is Kevin Hines. The part of Charles Ponzi is played by Sebastian Maniscalco. And Pawn Broker by Martin Cohen. Additional parts played by Andrew Holtzberger and Joe Hubbard. Legal services provided by Sean Gordon with Weintraub Tobin and Carolyn Levin at MKSR. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts.