Episode 2 | Don't Know Diddly

Last time on ear Witness, I.

Have my mind spirit for Cross told you I have a pit.

What appears to be a.

Jumped the comedy police officer shot in the back of our building.

He hit that movie.

He has been shot.

Looks it looks too bad.

And then I just heard one say that's it. It's old. We can't do anymore.

It's old. We can't save it.

He's gone. Tavarra Johnson. I remember he was pushing Adrika's forward in a wheelchair. They came together.

I had saw too far.

I was pushing a Drinka's in the club. I just sat two signs up and I left.

And and he was still there.

Yeah, he was when I left.

A defuity shareer working another deputy shares murder. Do you think that was emotional? Yes, it was very and had it been my decision the day we caught the people that did it, let's put them on death throat.

The murder of Deputy Bill Hardy behind the Crown Sterling Sweets Hotel was the top news story in Birmingham on July nineteenth, nineteen ninety five.

And plays are looking for a cop killer. Someone shot forty nine year old William Hardy several times in the year. Slow start, but investigators are throwing everything they have behind the caves.

The TV news footage shows deputies wearing the traditional black band over their badges, a gesture that expresses for a fellow officer.

We'll somber, we'll say it, but we know we have a job to do, and we're determined to.

Do that job.

This is a very difficult night for William Hardy's family.

The Hardy home is full of sorrow and pain as they search for asss to a senseless crime.

A week after the murder, hundreds of people turn out for Deputy Hardy's funeral.

Thank you, my brothers, Thank you, my brothers.

Video footage of the funeral shows women in dresses fanning themselves. It's summer in Alabama, a swampy ninety seven degrees. Someone actually faints in the heat.

We are still by that.

We all have to do what Bill has already done.

The church is packed, but at least one longtime colleague of Hardy's isn't at the service.

I didn't make the funeral. We worked this case so hard, and we were so determined to get a resolution. I was working. I didn't make his.

Feel Tony Richardson is the lead detective on the case. A prosecutor who used to work with Richardson tells me he's a thorough investigator, a man who gets the job done. But this case is different from any other he's worked before. He's investigating the murder of someone he knows, someone he likes, someone he worked with for almost two decades.

When you got a deafor shriff killed over here, it's high profile and people are expecting things out here, not only you. You know, you emotional. You want to find the people who did this. You want somebody in custom.

In the immediate hours after Deputy Hardy's murder, Detective Tony Richardson and his investigators interviewed Marshal Kelly Cummings, the Keebler cookie guy who heard the shots and saw someone drive away. They also interview the front desk clerk at the hotel, Barry Rushikov, and other people staying at the Crown Sterling Suites who heard voices in the parking lot followed by gunshots. No one they talked to says they actually saw the murder. Just a few witnesses heard the gunshots and then saw

Not only do you want somebody in custody. The lieutenant is telling me, we need to get this done. The captain is telling the lieutenant, we need to get this done. The sheriff, you're telling the captain, we need to.

Get this done.

Nine hours after Hardy is killed, the Sheriff's department announces a reward for information. The reward amount would eventually grow to twenty thousand dollars adjusted for inflation, that's about forty grand today. And once a tip line is announced, the phone start ringing. One caller says a guy known as Big Man told him his cousin was involved. Another says a member of the Disciples gang carried out the murder.

And she told me, she says, my daughter knows who killed Bill.

I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness chapter two.

Don't know Diddley, anybody that was not there when I was there, anybody that was not there when Harry was shot.

Don't know deadily about this case.

When I first got the enormous trove of records in the investigative file, I spent hours and hours just staring at my computer, overwhelmed by thousands of pages of documents. Right away I knew I wanted to talk to Tony Richardson, the lead investigator in Hardy's murder. His name is on most of the police reports, and it's his voice we hear on a lot of the interrogation tapes.

Sorry of Tony vision, Jeff, we got a Shuran service.

Today's data is when I first call him. For an interview. He says it would be best not to talk with me, but Richardson keeps talking for twenty five minutes. It seems like he's got a lot on his mind. Two weeks later, he agrees to go on the record.

Listen.

I've decided I'm going to speak with you concerning your podcast.

Great, I'm really glad to hear that. My producer Mara, and I meet him in a conference room of a local library.

Okay, how are you.

I'm Beth Tony.

This is Maura.

Nice to be too.

He's dressed casually, jeans, a black sweatshirt, a US Marines ball cap, and a toothpick he keeps in his mouth the entire interview.

Somebody when they hear this, they're going to be questioning.

My integrity. You know, is this guy telling the truth for? Is he just telling the story? So I'll talk to you to the NSKY.

When Detective Tony Richardson first gets that tip from Rosa Hardy, he goes over to the Ford dealership where she works as a receptionist.

I was always pretty thorough.

I wrote everything down, He writes in a report that Rosa Hardy told an officer that her daughter had information concerning the crime. The police report reads, Miss Hardy told us that after she arrived for work at twelve noon of seven nineteen, she heard a police officer had been killed. She bought a newspaper and learned the victim was someone she and her family knew personally. Rosa knew Deputy Hardy and his wife. They have the same last name, but

She says, my daughter knows who killed Bill. Well great will. She talked to me, I don't know. She kind of reluctant. She don't want to do it.

I'm trying to get her to do it, and I was just begging her, you know, let's figure out a way to get her in.

We need her.

But Rosa isn't sure where Yolanda is.

I think at the time, Yolanda was a semi runaway or whatever, but she wasn't there, okay, So we worked very hard with Mom to get Yolanda in.

Later that evening, Rosa calls the Sheriff's office and says, Yolanda is at her apartment, and that's where Richardson picks her up. He brings Yolanda to Sheriff's headquarters for questioning.

Charlton, Tony rich and Jeffson Kuint of Shriff's Office. Today's date is July twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five. The time it's eleven twenty pm. I'm at the Sheriff's Office headquarters along with Officer James Branton at the Birmingham Police Department and Yolanda Michelle Chambers. Yolanda is a black female. She's fifteen years of age. Again, what I want to talk to you.

About is Yolanda is by herself in a room with detectives and a tape recorder.

So I guess the best way for us to proceed is for you to tell me. First of all, when you learn that w Hardy had been killed?

All right, if I'm not mistaken, it was a Friday, Me and one of my girlfriends, say he named Latanya. Me and her and two guys are supposed to hook cup that night. Yeah, you know they're older than us. One is twenty one.

They call him Dre. He's in a wheelchair.

Dre is Ur Dregas Ford's nickname, and for some reason in this interview, Yolanda refers to to Forest as Carlos and he.

Has a brother named Carlos. So we you know, we were supposed to hook up, you know, after they left Teeves.

To Forest and Ardregas are not related, and to Forest's nickname has never been Carlos. It's unclear why Yolanda refers to him this way, but she tells police that ar Dregas called her around two am. He and to Forrest had left Tea's place and were on their way to pick her up.

You know they'd be on time.

They call it around about two or three, you know, be like come on.

Ardregas asks Yolanda to bring along a friend for to Forest. So after they pick up Yolanda, they all drive to pick up her friend, Latanya Henderson, who lives a few minutes away. I want to take a moment to address the age gap between to Forest, Ardregas and the girls they're picking up to Forest is twenty two, Ardregas is twenty one, Latania is sixteen, and Yolanda is fifteen. To Forest and Ardregas met Yolanda and Latania at a night club two nights prior to picking them up after teas.

Him and Carlos came down and we went all hand to was in dear park Pelataia.

Yolanda says that once they get to Latanya's house, it takes a while for Latanya to get ready.

Oh yeah, going out and tell you about it. For forty minutes to get ready, take our bathroostuf because she didn't have on no clothes.

Latanya finally sneaks out of her bedroom window to meet them. Once the girls are in the car, Yolanda says that something is off and our Dregas seems nervous.

You know and all like what's wronging wrong? Why we didn't got to get fill the wrong? We don't either, you know, it goes o injur chill out. So you know, we were riding around, you know, we're telling hill a man and it is smoked a cop.

According to Yolanda or Dragas says, the other guy in the car with them, to Forrest had smoked a cop.

You know who got their life playing y'all got us in the cortown y'all and did from did a crime.

Somehow. This revelation that to Forrest and Ardregis were supposedly just involved in the murder of a police officer doesn't deter their plans.

She says.

The four of them drive off to look for a hotel room.

We rode around in Hollywood usbid went to the Fat fear hand, but.

She says, the Fairfield end was booked solid and so they head across the street to the Super eight motel.

So when we went light cross to the suba eighth ahole, lot of cops came from knowing sheriffs and everything that came and I'll you know, and hated everybody to get at the car.

It's there and the Super eight parking lot. That officers tell the group they're investigating the murder of a deputy who was shot and killed earlier that night a few miles away at the Crown Sterling Suitets Hotel. Remember, officers were on the lookout for cars in the vicinity of the crime scene, and this is why they pull in behind the Monte Carlo in the Super eight parking lot.

Next morning, she say, guess at being as big.

That click, it's the sound of an officer turning the tape recorder off. We don't know what's being said between Yolanda and investigators when the tape is stopped, but Yolanda's first interview isn't over. The tape starts rolling again.

Okay, go ahead, Yeah, I'll tell my mom a bide and she can see Landa, you know her the police house that got killed last night.

I'm right here.

Okay, let me stop you again, okay, because I want to make sure that we get it on the record.

Now.

You have already mentioned in your statement that this was a Friday.

It was a Tuesday, because that's when they had a happy hour. It was going on with her Wednesday morning, round back food.

Yolanda says that Carlos, remember, that's what she's calling to. Forrest told her the time that he shot Deputy Hardy.

But if they had worn bout twelve right now, twelve thirty, Carlos.

And then Yolanda suggests a potential motive. She says, Deputy Hardy had arrested to forrest before, and that's why he supposedly shot him.

No, because I think we are arrested him a found before, Carlos.

You go where you're arrested him at?

I think it has only the way he went to parison.

An officer turns the tape recorder off for a second time. When the tape resumes, Yolanda offers a different motive for Hardy's murder now. She says they killed him after an attempted robbery, and since Hardy had seen their faces, it just made sense to kill him.

Got a mo things former do with kill him.

In the last minutes of the interview, detectives ask Yolanda why Ardregis and Carlos had gone to the Crown Sterling Suites, and she says they wanted to get a room because they sell drugs. They ask her if she knows anybody else these guys run with. Yolanda points to the photos of two other men and a stack that police show her. You hear Richardson say she has identified Omar Berry and Quintez Wilson.

Quinte is Wilson. This guy you look at, you know him?

As what okay, that's the photograph of Omar Berry.

These two other young black men are added to their list of suspects. This first recorded interview lasts about thirty five minutes, and right at the end, an officer asks Yolanda if anyone has made promises to her.

They promises to you by the statements you just made.

No.

Vin.

She answers no. Then we hear her say the only thing y'all gonna and then there's seven long seconds of silence.

It's Charlie Richardson. This is going to conclude this interview at this time eleven PM.

I listened to this interview over and over again, and what stands out is that each time officers stop and then restart the tape, there's a shift in Yolanda's story. At first, first she says it was a Friday that she heard about Hardy's murder. Then, after the tape stops and restarts, Richardson prompts her for the date, and she corrects herself and says it was a Tuesday night going

Yolanda was reluctant. She didn't want to talk, she didn't want We had to keep.

Better and we had to pull like polenty, you know, Yolanda, we need this and sometimes we'd have to be stern, you know, infirm, trying to shake her. You know, sometime we'd have to be soft, whatever will work to get this information out of her.

There are a lot of stops and starts, and I wonder what is going on? Then like the tape stops and then it restarts. I could do you when you go off the record with people, I mean, what what is best practices?

For best practice?

If not is not to go off the record, that's the best practice.

I mean, once you cut the tape on, unless the tape runs out and you changing the tape, you don't cut it off until you're done. There's no way I can tell you why the tape stopped, but I will tell you this. It didn't stop so something sinister could happen.

I can tell you that.

What would do you do off the record though? I mean somebody could have wanted to go to the bathroom, or could have just motioned for a break, or or.

Could have even motioned to say, cut that thing off.

You know, there's no way I can tell you why it was cut off. I can tell you there's nothing sinister here. I mean, there's no smoking gun here as far as doing anything that was not above board. Never never occurred, never happened, never happened.

It was early in the morning and I was just lounging around in my apartment, you know, and I had my front door was open, and where I was sitting, I could see out the door and here I see just cars one Marco.

In July of nineteen ninety five, to Forrest and his cousin Antonio Green were living together. But on the morning of the twenty fifth, Antonio is alone in their apartment when police cars pull out.

Oh there, So I see him pulling up in the front, lock in the bag, and I'm like, oh, what's going on over here? You know, next thing I know, they're in my daughter and their acts was to far As Johnson there I said, no, it's no, he's been staying here. But while he asking me this, they've already came in bought both doors, so they're already in my house. They're going down the hallway. So I'm thinking, nah, this must be something serious, you know, whatever it is.

So this guy's telling me what officers say they're looking for to Forest because they think he might know something about a.

Murder something or when they said murder, that really just threw me all the way to the left, because violent. He wasn't never violent, you know, rambunks his teenager, young kid doing what all of us were doing, and far As a partying and having a good time and all this, but violence never.

He was never a violent person.

As officers walk through Antonio's house, his phone rings. It's his grandfather and he says police are at his house too. Antonio hangs up and the phone rings again, ring again.

I answered it, and it's him.

It's the Freest.

I said, hey, man, where you head?

He said, I'm headed up there now.

I said, yeah, it's folks looking for you airways.

Yeah, that's what I heard. I don't know what they want, but I'm finna go and see now. I'm going up dead house now and see what they want.

So he did.

To Forest tells his cousin he has no idea why police want to talk to him, but he goes to meet with them at his grandfather's house.

Father's house and I heard him over the radio say we got him in custody.

And only then would they lead house.

Police take to Forest to Sheriff's office headquarters for questioning. On the morning of July twenty fifth, the day after they first talked to Yolanda Chambers, Detective Tony Richardson and his partner Tom Salter asked to Forrest to walk them through the evening of July eighteenth, the hours leading up to Deputy Harty's murder.

I suppose you're doing it five o'clock and even proud little again well who who?

To Forrest says that around five pm he was getting his haircut at a neighborhood spot called gas World Park gas Station Park, barbershop and nail salon part convenience store. Afterwards, he met up with his little brother at his mom's apartment complex.

He was hanging out outside.

I think, yeah, we'd be outside of there on the little park or around.

Walking is something to do. Any they to do is try to.

Fire, something to do, trying to find something to do when there's nothing to do. As to Forrest tells this to police, he has no way of knowing that he's describing one of his last few days of freedom.

So you guys might take you home because you're hungry. What'd you fix a blown sand?

Yes, he fries himself a Bolognian cheese sand which, play Sega and listens to the radio.

See, I think I stayed at home the Draga's game. I think I stayed there. Came feed me in.

He stays there and tell his friend ar dregas Ford picks him up in his nineteen seventy one black Monte Carlo to go to Tea's place. While police asked to Forrest about the night Hearty was killed. Others are out looking for ar Dregas Ford. They knock on the door of his mom's house. Here's Joyce Ford.

Three o'clock that morning, I'll stayed at Central Park. Somebody knocked on the door and I said, who is it? And they said Jefferson, count of sheriff Man. So I looked out the window. They were everywhere. I opened the door and I was kind of nervous, and they said, is Draga's Ford home?

I said no.

Then they said what can we come in? I said, I don't have anything to have. You welcome to come in, but do you have a search one? And they said no. I said, well you can't come in. They said, well, we have some questions to asks and can you bring him in when he get home?

And I told him.

When he got home, I told him what happened and he said, yeah, Ma, I'd be glad to go.

So Joyce drives our Dregas to the Sheriff's office headquarters on the morning of July twenty sixth detectives Richardson and Salter ask him what he was up to on the night of the murder. Richardson asks him what time he picked up to Forrest.

First time you saw him tubes.

It was about ten o'clock at night.

But team about team once they get to tease or Dragas says, his beeper is going off all night. It's Yolanda Chambers.

Should have been paid, but I want to call her.

But he had just met her the previous Sunday at another nightclub called the Jaguar. In separate interviews, both to Forrest and Ardregas tell detectives they hung out at teas until past one am, catching up with old friends like Mama Cat and Queasy.

Right there, we were fucking with that girl, Mama Kid were out telling you about Mamma.

Caedd and Queasy.

But after they strike out at the club, Ardregas says he finally calls Yolanda around two thirty am, so I call her told I will come get Ardregas says, he and too Forrest pick up Yolanda and then head to her friend Latanya's house, and just like Yolanda told police, He also says that Latanya doesn't come out to meet them right away. He remembers this clearly because it was kind of annoying to go wow, to come out.

At daytime or night. You know, ain't got time to be waiting a more bad.

Detectives also bring Latanya Henderson in for questioning. She talks to a female officer without a parent or lawyer present, and she says the same thing, so, Yolanda, and then picked.

You up around three o'clock my time again, caland three and third o'clock am.

In a moment it.

All four of them say. They leave Latanya's house and try to get a room.

I see when we pulled up at the fair viaa.

We went to Fairfield first to put them in a fair Field.

Just like Yolanda says. They tell police that the Fairfield Inn is booked, so they head to the Super eight Motel. This is where officers stopped them as part of their sweep of cars across Homewood. At this point, ardregis to forrest. Latania, and Yolanda have all independently described similar versions of the night to detectives, with one huge exception. No one in the car says they know anything about Deputy Hardy murder except Yolanda.

Today David July twenty sixth, nineteen ninety five. At the time is twelve thirty seven, two.

Days after her first recorded interview with police, Yolanda Chambers is back in for questioning. At first, Yolanda tells a similar story to her first interview that she heard Ardregis say that to Forrest killed a cop.

Did you say anything?

Is now?

The tape recorder is turned off. Forty minutes later, they start recording again, bes.

Sharton Richard and I'm uh restarting to uh to take the time is uh twenty minutes to two, and we took a short break. Uh we gonna get started again.

You're learn to uh.

During our break time, Uh, we talked something about the the incident of.

The for the case.

Now, I was gonna ask you, now what you have already told me during the times that I have interviewed you, is that the truth? No, it's not the truth. No, did any that you told me?

Did any of that occur?

Can occur, but it was not nothing that I had occurred. Mkay.

So are you telling me that you didn't get this second hand that when this deputy was shot and killed that you were there.

M No, I didn't get it taking hand how Then.

She says she was actually there when Hardy was shot, and she's about to tell detectives a completely different version of what happened that night.

Okay, tell me about that.

Well, when I told you that they were supposed to come get me around back, he be given me by eleventh thirty, They did come and give me. As the act for five.

Yolanda now says that to Forrest and Rodregaz came to pick her up around eleven thirty pm instead of two am.

You know, pafter they came and got new women gat her crying you were you were ready? Yuh huh women? You mean brought right out right on now?

Okay.

Yolanda says that Latanya hops right into the car instead of taking a long time to get ready.

Did you know at the time y'all we're going?

Yeah, where were you doing?

Okay? So did y'all go to the crass there?

Yeah? We went, we went.

She now says they left Latanya's house and went straight to the Crown Sterling Suite's hotel.

And what time do you think you got there?

A little astafoya because Draga's drive pad.

So.

Yolanda names an arrival time that fits neatly with Hardy's murder, which was around twelve to fifty am, and then she says that our Dregas and de Forrest we're meeting up with some guys at the hotel to do a drug deal, okay.

And where did y'all call.

On the SAD Now on the SAD for the south right cross from where the bank.

Is, she says they pull up on the side of the hotel, across from another car that flashes its lights at them. Inside that car, Yolanda says she sees three people and two of them are the guys she previously identified in photos that police showed her, Omar Barry and Quintez Wilson. Yolanda says that Omar and Quintez walk over

Jumping for the man who on this gold is gold.

It's cold going to start, you do now.

Up until this point, Yolanda has not mentioned Hardy's murder.

Okay, Now, you mentioned to me that you heard what you thought was three shots.

But when we heard it, we were like, we know what it was. We didn't know what was going on.

This is the first time there's any mention on tape that Yolanda heard gunshots. She confirms it after Tony Richardson brings it up.

So you heard those shots before he ever ran back to the show when they will call in their long period of time.

Okay.

This version of events does not line up with what Richardson knows about the crime. Hardy was murdered at the back entrance of the hotel, not the side near the bank where Yolanda says they were parked, and definitely not the front of the hotel. Where she claims this group of men disappeared with Hardy.

This is what you're telling me, now, this is the honest for guy truth.

Okay, why did you tell me from the all that you were But I was scared.

I didn't know what it was.

Clams who I just think I went to Okay, I just want to I sause I knew of about it. You know, I didn't wanted to let you know that I have some information about it, but I don't want you out to know how they're the age of pass.

The recorder is turned off yet again for almost an hour. When the tape starts up again, Sergeant Salter asks the questions, Ms.

Chambers, we need to clarify something about where y'all were parked at at the Crown Sterling Suites, and it's my understanding that y'all drove in to the parking lot to the back door.

Is that correct?

Correct?

Yolanda now agrees that they were parked at the back of the hotel where Hardy was shot. There's no discussion on tape about why this detailed chained changed, and then her story changes again. She says she didn't just hear the shots. She says she sees Deputy Hardy falling to the ground right after he shot.

I heard the first shot, and then I looked over. He had already fail. You were falling.

He was falling when you saw him. Who was standing in front of him? When you saw him falling?

It was a little Carlo.

Did you see a gun.

At the bad time?

You didn't? Did you hear another shot?

I heard? I heard three shots.

You heard three shots?

Okay?

Then what happened?

And then.

A running who started running all over him? Okay.

Sergeant Salter then prompts her to talk about what she sees when to Forrest gets back into Ardregus's money.

Carlo, did he have anything on his hand that you told me?

Did you think he was hurt?

Yeah?

Did you see how he got the blood on his hands?

No, I've just seen the blood. I don't put it on me.

Yolanda chambers statement to police has gone from hearing Ardrega say his buddy smoked a cop to actually being at the Crown Sterling Suites wind shots were fired and seeing blood dripping off to Forrest's hands.

Did I believe everything Lena told me?

No?

Hell no, hell no. But Yolanda told a lot of truth. Why she was trying to hide it by telling lovels?

Why do you think she told a lot of truth? Like what convinced you that some of what she was telling you was truth and some wasn't?

You know? Police officers through their gnahge investigative skills, history.

You know, they know how to put things together.

So I started talking to you, but I already know in my mind before you ever started talking, what happened, how it happened.

After two days of on the record interviews with police, Yolanda now says that she to Forrest and Ardregis, her friend Latanya, along with OMR Berry and quint Tess Wilson. We're all there at the Crown Sterling Suites when Deputy Hardy was killed. But all five people she places at the hotel deny being there. The officer who interviews Latanya Henderson, confronts her with Yolanda's latest story.

So what she's saying she was there and I was there. That's a lie.

Okay, that's a lie.

That's a shame.

Okay.

So Yolanda's line she surely lives, Okay. So y'all never went to Crown Sterling. Y'all w I went to super eight. That's it.

I don't know Crown stir lives.

Okay, if Crown stirring myself eight, No, well then I didn't go, and I'm telling truth.

Police also confront to Forrest with Yolanda's story.

You know what I'm saying. Everything that I did, I explained it to you exactly. Everything you sup to the Crown. We take a trip down. Yeah, she took a trip to the Crown up so he did.

Yes, you did.

Don't so I didn't go to the ground.

I hope you into the.

Crown ipe crown still sweet, No, sir, I ain't been to the Crown stairs, and I've been over.

As un as he got you.

They interrogate him for over two and a half hours. No matter what to Forrest says, or how many times he states plainly that he was not there and does not know anything about the murder, investigators don't believe him.

How about given me some of the information that you just have a hard time giving me.

I'll say, I give you everything that I know about two the night. I don't know anything else. I can't make myself chieving it, and I don't know. I told you all that I that's all I know.

That's see.

Now.

All i'mna do is I'm just getting fucked.

Is I'm gonna getting I'm money getting fucked.

I don't know who getting that name.

I ain't get that man.

I give you all that I know, Zoe, I can't give you nothing. I don't think you give us all that you know.

I'm trying to give you all the information that I know.

Oh, Murch, I'll give you. I don't do anything.

I'm just a way.

You know what I'm saying. But you do, You're gonna make me said I.

Did I did not do it.

I was not deaf.

From this point on, detectives rely on Yolanda to build their narrative about the murder. They'll go on to interview her over and over again, at least twenty five times, and every time they talk to her, her story will change. So why did continue to lean on this fifteen year old girl even though they caught her in so many lives? And who is Yolanda Chambers? That's next time? Ear Witness is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association