Stephan Schwartz: Psychic Archaeology

This week, we continue with our theme of remote viewing, or in other words, psychic archaeology with doctor Stephen Schwartz, a parapsychology who has actually used psychics in an academic setting to find important ancient sites. This is a look at a protocol that includes university scientists, scanning technology, and psychics in the search for lost ruins, tombs, and individuals. All this and gendeo today on Earth Ancients for Saturday, August twenty six, twenty twenty three. This

is is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff Dunning. I've got an interesting program today and the theme is psychic archaeology. And I was and obviously the interviews done and you're listening to the recorded version of it. But I was taken aback by the amount of accuracy but also the number of places that have been viewed through what can only be considered remote viewing. And I had to get Jen Deo on and Jen's with me here to ask her what her

feelings were. And I wouldn't ask this of most archaeologists simply because a lot of them are, you know, feeling like, hey, I did my time, I did my four years, I did my six years, I have my PhD. I know what's going on, but that's not true necessarily. And I look at this remote viewing otherwise known as psychic archeology, as another tool to help find individuals, ruined cities, so forth, and so on that have been a question down through the ages and so so, Jen,

what do you think of psychic archeology. I mean, this wasn't a course that would be offered to your college. Yeah, probably not. You know, I'm gonna own that I didn't know a ton about this before we talked, excluding you know, some of maybe like the little offshoots of it, like say dowsing, which is like seeking electromagnetic fields, which is really really common, and people do it to find, you know, water, So it would make sense that you know, you would be able to find

it if you know there was something else going on there. Then there's channeling Edgar Casey and the Akashic Records, which we all kind of know about that or have heard about that his work with channeling Atlantis. And then there's the remote viewing, and that's kind of what your guests talked about today. And

then there's psychometry, which kind of blew my mind. You know, when someone holds an object and they can tell you about the object somebody who's sensitive and they can kind of give a date, time and maybe a period or

something. Yep, yeah, exactly, So good about that. Yeah, And so I think that it has a number of components that are kind of really interesting, you know, in and of themselves, but then when you put them all under the umbrella of psychic archeology, it's definitely something that's been discounted and kind of left the wayside and considered fringe, even though it's had some really successful results. I e. Your guests who did the Alexandria Project.

Yeah, I want to mention to our listeners that you had a chance to see a presentation that I suggested that you look at called the Alexandria Project, which was gone in the late nineteen seventies. It's been so long. Everybody looks so young in that in that serious but yeah, talk about that. What your feelings were. So, the Alexandria Project was written by Stephen Schwartz, who is a parapsychologist. That's interesting in and of itself that he's

a parapsychologist. Yeah. He took eleven psychics and gave them a map of Alexandria, and the outcome was what he wanted to see if they was any commonality and what they chose and kind of some of the things that he had in his mind that he was interested in finding were the tomb of Alexander the Great, the Library of Alexandria, and the palace of Cleopatra and Mark Antony

kind of their their last ground where they were. So what he does is so he has those eleven psychics go in and look at the map and see if they find some similar things. And then he identifies two psychics female and a male, and basically he uses them to get their impressions. And what he ends up finding is they think that they identify a location where Alexander's tomb

may well have been. And what they end up finding is, you know, there's this mosque and underneath the mosque is something that had been named after Alexander prior to that moss being built. So there was definitely there was some sort of something going on there. They didn't really they weren't really able to put a finger on it other that there was a connection there, which I think is, you know, that's interesting that these two people came up with

it up with something very similar. They came up with something where they both saw very similar images and what they identified was corroborated by an actual archaeologist. So they tried to meet somewhere in between where they were using this psychic archaeology

but also incorporating an archaeologists to corroborate their fines. So the big thing that they found, which I did think was really interesting, they went out into the Egyptian desert and both of these psychics identified some very very similar imaging and they ended up finding a Byzantine city it wasn't Roman, and they identified shapes where exactly it would be, and again they brought in an archaeologist and the

archaeologists started digging, and they ended up digging there for I think like two months and uncovered an entire city in this small Egyptian town. Yeah. I mean, I was a kid in the late seventies and so I have no

idea what the technology was. But obviously light ar wasn't around. Some of the early ground penetrating radar was around, and I don't know what other technologies, but I was surprised, and we'll hear it today in our interview that this information, and this technique, the protocol that Schwartz developed where you use established archaeologist and you use these psychics to pinpoint, hasn't come forward, hasn't been brought and used in any other place. And I was just curious what

your feelings were. Why not? I mean, because these people were able to actually show the building in the desert. I can't think of the name of it. I think it was Maria or something, yeah, yeah, And they actually found the walls, the rooms. I think the woman psychic Hella, found an oven of some kind. And it's like, this is

extremely accurate, but we don't hear about it anymore. Well, I mean you could say the same thing about you know, police detectives who bring in psychics to work with the police to find missing children or you know, murder victims. I think that it probably just kind of went the wayside because you know, they couldn't I guess they couldn't legitimize it essentially, you know,

because you can't measure it. It's not quantifiable, it's not qualifiable. So I think, even though we even know today that human beings do have psychic elements to our existence and how we work within our consciousness, I mean that has been proven. That's why I think that, like, for instance, you know dousing falling under the psychic archaeology, Well, we know that energy exists in various different capacities. So to be able to use copper rods to

identify electromagnetic fields doesn't feel out of the realm of reality to me. That feels actually like, yeah, that feels like that's something real. I feel like I could take a physicist out with me and they could explain why it did that or something to that effect. But I think archaeologists are less likely to bring in a psychic because it would somehow demean them or make it seem like, you know, they weren't paying attention to the geology or you know,

the lay forms and the topography to identify their sites. You made a very good point when you started defining what archaeologists use today. Psychic archaeology doesn't use the scientific method, and there's no way to quantify or tests. It's like if you find a man or a woman who's highly sensitive, highly psychic, and and we'll learn more about it today, it's just too much woo

woo. I think for the established university archaeological community to consider and even though it could be dead on or even in the high nineties, it's just too much. I guess, yeah, well, I mean it also, let's agree about this too, how do you find a psychic to do this work? Like, it's not like you can ask for, you know, a CV or a resume. And how many you know sites have you found remotely

up into you know what point in time? So I think that that might have a little bit to do with it, because you know, psychics don't have a lot of credibility. They're seen as Charlatans and people who you know want to take your money. And still, you know, that's a good point. It isn't necessarily that credible, and you don't go to a university

to become a psychic. It's something you're born with. Although and in this interview today we do learn that there is a select type of psychic that he Stephen Schwartz uses in finding Alexander's tomb and Cleopatrick's rooms and so forth, and

so we'll learn about it. I guess I would think whatever tools you can get that help you find a location and narrow down the dig site is not only money and time saving, you know, it's just gets to the point much quicker, and you know, to not have it as a learning tool. Now, maybe what you're saying is true. Maybe it was vogue in the late seventies to work with these people. Because he doesn't excuse me.

In our interview last week with Russ Targ one of the founders of the SRI Remote Viewing Group, they did work with the Patricia Hurst kid nap and they actually found where she was located. So that was unique psychic that that did that. So there's a lot of elements in this whole question, and because

yeah, the psychics don't necessarily see the same things either. Even in this video that Alexandria project, how the impressions that the woman experienced versus what the man experienced were so mean, they weren't, you know, so far apart. But something that I found interesting the woman Hella, she was saying, you know, she felt when she was identifying areas or regions, she felt

like they were heavy, the heavy areas. Whereas the other psychic, the gentleman, he would he was very descriptive and had shapes and you know, like at one point he describes half a floor and then when they find the floor. They say, you know, there was debris on it, it had deteriorated, but you could still see part of the mosaic that existed,

so it really was a floor on top of a floor. So yeah, I mean, it's just such this wide swath of information and how you interpret it is such a you know, it's almost like you could take a crash course on how you interpret psychic information and what you you know, what it could mean to whomever the archaeologist is excavate, because that was the other takeaway.

The archaeologists that they were working with was like, oh, hell no, there's nothing here, and then all of a sudden, you know, they find these walls and rooms and mosaic tile floors, which he was like, there's nothing here, and then all of a sudden, there's really something

there. Yeah, I know. And this comes up on our interview today with him with Stephen Schwartz, is the fact that the archaeologists who were on the team who are looking for these various objects were like poop pooling the whole thing going. You don't know what you're talking about because in some cases they'd actually been looking for specific sights and didn't find them. I just think when we have, as an example, we have these sixty thousand Mayan ruins in

the Guatemala jungle. We've had doctor Richard Hanson on, We've had Ed Barnhart, and we've had others talk about them, people who are Mayanists. Wouldn't it be interesting? Because you know, the funny thing is Jen is that Hansen he's actually admitted that they're looking for the tomb of a king. Yeah, they're looking for I mean, I'm going dude, this thing is huge.

And I'm not going to get into how I feel about his definition of pyramids, because he believes that they are big, big monuments to the gods. But if he had other tools, like a psychic archaeologist or psyche working with him, psychic archaeologists, I'm putting it into a division. You've created a whole new job. Oh my god, if you're listening, let's do it. No. I think it would help him if he was able to bring somebody in to target a location that Hansen goold dig to find something,

because he's not going to be around much longer. He's in his you know, seventies now, and El Minador is a monstrosity. I mean, he's done some great work. But wouldn't you think that if he was able to use somebody to pinpoint a site that supports lighter, that that would be the next step. Can't hurt, right, it can't hurt I look at it. I mean, I'm always of the philosophy do no harm, but I don't see the harm that it would do. You know, bring in a

local brujar or something like that and see what they have to say. I mean, why not. I'm a proponent of magic and you know, whatever abilities that other people have, and you know it's it's it's not it's not something that you know, demeans the group or the you know, the project that they're working on. Really it's a collection of information, and the more information you collect, the better off you are. Yeah, I mean,

you've been out on excavation size and you've excavated all over the place. Wouldn't it be nice to know specific a specific area that got a hit by a local sensitive. Wouldn't that help other than just going through a whole mountain side and trying to find pot sharts. I'll be honest with you. They might not call them, you know, psychics, but archaeologists do bring in you know folks who are local. They do bring in people who, you know,

the local shaman, the healer, whomever it might be. I've worked on a couple of excavations where that's the case. So in the United States, I mean, I worked on an excavation in Nevada where we had some tribal elders come in and one of them did a blessing and then walked over to a cave and said, you need to dig in here, and so we did, and guess what we found? Some we found a beautiful site with cordage and matting. Really. Yeah, So I do think that we

use it. How we label it might be very different than how you perceive it. But for the language, yeah, language has to change. Here's one for you. And be honest. Now, if you were required to take will not require, but if you were had an elective course on developing psychic awareness of archaeological sites, would you be interested in something like that? I mean I would personally, I should. I should ask you because you're

like you're you're transparent, very open minded person. That's why you're my friend. I mean, I don't. I think I think all education matter in that way, and so I think that this is part of the history of archaeology, and I think that an archaeologist could determine if they wanted to go in a direction. You know, it's not unheard of. You know, I'm going to go back to dousing because that really resonates with me. I'm

very interested in that. I think that that is a perfectly reasonable thing to use, whether you're trying to identify water on your site that you want to avoid, or if you want to, you know, identify the electro magnetic

current of wherever it is that you're working. So yeah, you know, I don't It's so funny because people make things so black and white and when it comes to these things, just like I said to you on the front end of this, I don't really know about this cliff, but it is fascinating because there are little fingers and tendrils that work into the status quo and how we do things and whether or not we want to call it by you know, these psychic archaeology, or say that we brought in an elder and

they told us this, and then we did what they said and they were right. It's kind of the same thing. It's just called something different. Thank you for that story about bringing in the local elders and perhaps shaman, because in many ways native or indigenous people are tuned in to the local awareness and the land and so forth, and so in many ways that kind of like psychic archeology. So fantastic, Jen Dale as always a pleasure having you

with us, and we'll see you again. It's always fun to have gen on the program. She gives us a orthodox view of archaeology, but of course she has tinted glasses and sees things a little differently than the books,

which the academic books would lead us to believe. No, it's fun to have that perspective because I don't know why they're not using these people more regularly, especially when there is an area or an individual, tomb or an artifact that is of great interest like a codis, like a Mayan book that they can target and then bring some of these sensitives in to find the location,

the gray site, the tomb where this item lies. So I just don't know why we're not using more of this type of technology, human technology. So all right, So today's program is psychic Archeology, and my guest is doctor Stephen Schwartz. And by the way, This is an extended interview going for about ninety minutes, so enjoy. H We're continuing our theme of remote

viewing with a new guest today. Last week we had rust Tar speaking on him his work, his involvement in remote viewing with the CIA and with SRI and detailing some interesting projects. But this week we really get to the core of it, and I'm really really happy and feeling fantastic that we have a new guest. His name is Stefan Schwartz. This is what Earth Ancients is all about, using psychic archeology, using the latest technology, penpointing information,

and actually going after it. My guest today I mentioned Stefan Schwartz. He is a scientist, a futurist, award winning author of both fiction and nonfiction, Distinguished Associated Scholar of the California Institute of Human Science. He has written and continues to write a great deal. His books include Opening to the Infinite Awakening, The Eight Laws of Change, The Sacred Valid Excuse Me, The Sacred Vaults of Time, which I urge everyone to get. It's actually three

books in one. And then he wrote another book that we'll talk about today called The Alexandria Project. This is what we're all about. And I'm really really quite pleased and happy to have Stephen on the program. Welcome to Earth, Ancient Stephen. Great to see you, a pleasure to be here. Cliff, all right, I mentioned a few people that you know well. One is Russ targ and the work he did at SRI. How did you get I mean, you're you're a parapsychologist. Remote viewing somewhat makes sense,

but how did you get involved on a personal level? What would inspire you to dedicate so much of your life to this fascinating topic. Well, I woke up when I was up twenty three years old. I was I was in New York. I was working. I had and i've been working for National Geographic. I got drafted. This is during the Vietnam Era. I

went into the Army, I came out. I wrote a movie for Colonial Williamsburg in Virginia, and I sent a copy of the script up to a guy I had met in the Army who was in New York and he was working for screen Gems and they asked me to come up to New York and offered me a job. And I've started writing an adaptation of a Bud Schulberg

play anyway, And so I was in New York. I was twenty three, I was being successful and all that sort of thing, and I met all kinds of people, and I went to a party that Truman Capote gave and I went down the hall to go to the bathroom. And when I came back, I looked there was this gold antique mirror on the wall. And I looked at this mirror and I just said, spontaneously, without really even thinking about it, I said, you are becoming an unattractive person.

Your values are all screwed up. And I sort of, oh, what, you know, why did I say that? Anyway, I looked down the hall and there were all these famous people that were in the room, and and I left the party. I went back to Manhattan, got in my car, drove back down to my family's property in Virginia in Gloucester, and I was depressed. It's the only time in my life I have really been depressed, because I knew something was wrong, but I couldn't figure out

what it was. And one day I was sitting on the porch looking out over the bay, and I mean, this was a property land grant to my mother's family and built in the sixteen fifty three, so it had been around a long time. I had beautiful grounds, and I looked over and on part of the garden there was this couple walking, middle aged couple, and and I didn't know who they were. And they were dressed like people

in Manhattan, not in Virginia, you know. He had on a gray suit and she had on this very smart dress, and and I thought, who are these people? I looked over where the cars would park. We were at the end of a ten mile unpaved school brush road and our lane was a mile long. So I thought, there's no car. I mean, I looked down at the dock, the boat house, and there was no boat. I thought, you know, who are these people? How

did they get here? And they saw me looking at them, and they came over and I opened the screen door and they came in, and this woman looked at me and instead of introducing herself, she said to me, do you believe in reincarnation? Oh my god? And I said, I said, I don't know anything about it, but yeah, I guess if I think about it, I probably do. It seems very symmetrical. And then I said, but We'll wait. You know, who are you?

Why are you here? And they introduced themselves as Edin Paula Fitzgerald. And I looked at this guy. I mean, I just thought they were nuts. But I looked at this guy and he seemed vaguely familiar. And I said to him, are you the Ed Fitzgerald who was the production designer for Magnificent Seven, which was a very popular movie at the time. And he said yes, And I realized I had met him just to shake hands at a film conference in New York, so they just see that made him seem

a little less crazy. And I said to her again, you know, why are you here? She said, well, I had a dream that told me that I was supposed to drive up here with with my husband and to invite you down to the Edgar Cacy material to show you the edgre Cacy material. Do you know who Edgar Casey is? Oh? Wow, okay? And I said no, I don't have any ideas. She said, well, do you know what a psyche is? And I said, well, you know, I mean I yeah, it was sort of And I

how you know, why were you doing this? How did you know to get here? I mean, you know, We're at the end of a ten mile school bus road that's not paved, in a mile long lane that goes to our fields. And how we did you possibly ever even get here? She said, well, in the dream I saw where to turn, and when I woke up, I just wrote it down. I thought, okay, it's pretty strange. She said, would you like to meet Thomas Jefferson? And I said I'd gone to the University of Virginia, where I

had been an ECHL scholar. And I said, well, yeah, is he backed? And she said yes he is. I said, well, how do you know that? And she said, well, Edgar Casey said it. And I said how does Edgar Casey know it? And she said, well, you need to come down and look at this material. And just then a car came down the lane and this young couple was driving it, and she said, give me your telephone number, and I handed her my card and they said thank you very much and got left and got in

the car and drove away. And I thought, what the hell just happened? Exactly That's what I'd be thinking, Yeah, I said, so. About a week later, I got a telephone call from a guy who said, this is t J. Davis Thomas Jefferson Davis, and I'd like to invite you down to Virginia Beach for the weekend. And as I told you, I was at this point as depressed as I have ever been in my life. And I said okay, because I just didn't know what to do, I said, okay, give me an address. I'll come down.

So at the appointed to day and everything, I drove down to Virginia Beach, about two hours south of where my family's property was. And I got to this address and there was a young man up on a ladder putting up a sign for a leather shop and and a sort of hippie store. And I said, I'm looking for T. J. Davis and he said he's not here, but Joan is. And around the corner came this quite lovely woman, had beautiful lavender eyes, and she said, I'm supposed to take

you up to the AAR. I said, what's the AAR and she said, well, that's where they studied the edgre Cacy material. And so we got in my car and drove up to up Atlantic Avenue and we got to where she told me to go, and she took me into this building and We're going to go in the library, she said. And we went into this library and along one of the walls where these green loose leaf notebooks, and she said, these are the readings. And she told me her idea

of what a reading was. And I walked down the wall and just at random, I pulled one of these green loose leaf notebooks, you know, the kind of ovens school, the three ring binders. I pulled one of these notebooks down and I opened it up, just at random, and I

started to read this what was on the page. And I'm telling you, Cliff, it is possible that your hair can stand on end, because I had, at random pulled down a reading given in nineteen thirty six for a woman and it was and in the reading he said you were a member of the Essecene community at he described the area which I recognized as Kurbet Cumron, and you were a teacher of astrology. And in nineteen thirty six, there was not a single human being on earth who knew that. In fact,

nobody knew that Kurbet Cumran was in a scene community. They thought it was outpost to the Emperor of Aspasian's troops. What part of the world is that located. It's in the Middle East. That's why I thought, okay. And anyway, eleven years after he gave that reading, a young Bedouin tribes boy was chucking rocks into a cave just as he was taking his sheep along, and he heard something go clunk, and he went down and he found

these urns which contained the Dead Sea scrolls. And then archaeologists came in and they did excavations, and they found that there were female skeletons, and not a single person knew at that time that there were women who were part of the Essene community. Josephus says it was a schismatic order of Jewish monks, so nobody knew that there were women involved. Nobody knew that they there was Jewish a scene community at courbet Comeran, and no one knew that they were

interested in astrology. He said, this woman had been a teacher of astrology. But all of that was true. And I knew all this because the last thing I had done for the National Geographic before I had been drafted, was research on the Dead Sea scrolls for to do an article in the National Geographic magazine. And I knew that in nineteen thirty six. When he gave this reading, none of the things that he was saying were known to be were known period. And I said to this young woman, let me take

you to dinner. I have a bunch of questions. And so we went off to dinner, and and I've talked to her and mean to her understanding of what was going on with Casey. And and I thought, wait, whoa, whoa. Though this is a whole other world, what's going on here? And so I called back to the farm and said it's gonna take a little longer than a weekend. And it ended up taking five years.

And I went up to the AAR the next day and I met Hughlyn Casey, and I met Gladys Davis Turner, who was Casey's lifelong secretary and archivist. And I said to her, I don't understand this, and I want to understand it. I'm going to I would like to read the readings, and I would like to start at the first one and read all the way through sequentially. Now, and I want to stop right there, because there are something like fourteen thousand of his readings. Yeah, you are about the

only person. And I'm sure there's others, but there are very few of you who have read one through fourteen thousand. Now there's nobody else, only Gladys. According to Gladys, she and I are the only two people to read all the readings, and they granted you permission to go through those obviously. Yeah, okay, I mean that's all I started reading. I started, you know, as I said, I said, it take a little longer than a weekend. So I moved on to Virginia Beach and I started

reading. And after I'd been at it for two or three years, I had read by that time unknown thousands of them. I thought, well, I better start reading what does science think about this? And so I decided I would start reading all the parapsychological literature. So I started with the very first journal in parapsychology. I was going to William and Mary College and Commonwealth University and Wesleyan University, and in their libraries were all these things about these

these journals, these parapsychology journals. And then I started reading books. So I read all the journals, and then I started reading books Blavotsky, Uspenski, Gerjief, all the sort of metaphysical people from the late nineteenth early twentieth century. That's what I did. And then in nineteen sixty eight, I had enough money saved up from working as a screenwriter in New York. I didn't have to take a job, so I was just living on that and

doing this research. And then sixty eight I decided that I wanted to be an experimentalist to test these ideas, and and Casey kept saying other people could do this, So I created what I called distant viewing, which we later renamed remote viewing. That's an Ingo Swan word that he gave it. It's terrible term in both cases because it has nothing to do with remote, has

nothing to do with viewing, has nothing to do with distance anyway. So I built a grid in my back yard, the back garden of this house that I had, and I started out with twelve foot square grid. I went down to a ship Chaanzor and got a lot of yellow line and I staked out and I made this grid of twelve squares, and eventually it made it one hundred and forty four squares because I had a friend who was a statistician, and he said, it'll be much more impressive if it's one hundred

and forty four squares. Actually it didn't really make any difference. And I would bury things in mason jars or in thirty five millimeter film canisters because I wanted to see how refined people's perception could get. So a little bit thirty five millimeter film canister or a mason jar, and I would bury things in them in a grid, and I made a mimiograph. That's how long ago

this is. I made a mimiograph of the grid, and I would send it out to people all over the world that I knew, and I would ask them if they could locate which of the grid I had buried something, and if they the first to locate it and make a mark on the grid the piece of paper I sent them, and then to tell me what it was. And to give you an example, there are many of these.

I got. My wife had a perfume bottle that had one of those little rubber squeezy balls that atomized the perfume, and I buried that in a mason jar and in the grid. And the person said, well, there's a very strong smell of flowers, and there's a bottle and there's something around and it's you can squeeze it and that was exactly correct. I mean, that's just a example. Anyway, I did dozens of these things, and it turned out people could do it, and not always, not every time,

but statistically significantly. And how many people would you say were involved in this early test that you were developed. Oh, I don't know, maybe fifty okay, okay, number of people? Yeah, And then I and then

I got interested. I got interested in why religion is so focused on water and wine, and I began doing a series of experiments where I had would have meditators focus on bottles of wine, and then I would compare that wine to exactly the same wine I would I would buy a bottle of wine and split it into a seven hundred and fifty MILLI leader, and I would split it into three seventy five MILLI leader bottles, and I would randomly assign one of them to be control, one of them to be treated, and I'd

take the treated bottle, I'd put it on a chair in the middle of a study group that was meditating, and I would ask them to focus their meditation on this bottle, and then I would take the two bottles, the control and the treated to a friend of mine, and I would tell them I'm about to make a big wine buy, and I'm down to two kinds of wine, and it's a lot of money. And so could you have

people, could you have a little wine tasting. Invite seven people to come in and taste these two wines and tell me which one they think is the better wine. And I did it twelve times, and in eleven times they picked the bottle that was treated. And I later did another experiment on how

focused intension changes the materials the molecular structure of water anyway. But so from sixty four sixty five, sixty five, I guess to sixty nine sixty almost seventy, all I did was study the Edgre Casey readings and start to do these experiments, and study also the parapsychological literature. And by the time I got into this, I realized most people start doing these kinds of experiments because

they want to prove doesn't exist. Okay, But by the time I got there, having looked at the Casey material, which has got just it's the largest body of remote viewing data that exists. And I mean he did all kinds of things that just you you couldn't do if if consciousness was only physiologically based, so I didn't have any doubt that it was real. What I wanted to know, and what I've always wanted to know, is how does it work? What can you do to make it work better? What can

you do with practical utility with it? What is it telling us about who we are as human beings? And what is it telling us about our place and the matrix of life? Yeah, I'd like to know. I'd like to get your definition a step in what remote viewing is, and also if you could give us a little flavor of psychic archaeology and touch on maybe one of the noted cases that Edgar Casey presents. But up to you go ahead. Well, I mean, first of all, as I said, remote

viewing is a very bad term. What we're really dealing with here is non local awareness and the fact that there is an aspect of consciousness that exists before you were born, and we'll continue after you are physically dead, and that what's going on is that what I would call the eternal self, what religion

would call the soul, episodically manifests a personality and incarnates it. You choose your parents, you choose your socio economic background, you choose your race, you choose your abilities, and this all comes in and what comes across is information. And if you look at the reincarnational research of Ian Stevenson or Jim Tucker at the University of Virginia, or Erlander Harrelson, there's an enormous amount of data that has been accumulated, very vigorously researched by those three people,

particularly Ian and Jim Tucker. It makes it very clear that there is a continuity of consciousness and that what comes across between incarnations is information which literally affects you at the genetic level people. For instance, I'll just give you one example. Years later, I was making a television program about reincarnation and we studied a case in which a young boy said that he previously had been a

money lender. This is an India, that he'd been a money lender, and that he had been killed by a woodcutter who had killed him with his acts. And this kid was born and had on his back a long scar just exactly like you'd expect if you were hit with an axe anyway, So we arranged to take this kid, not with the village where he was but to another village where nobody from his village had ever been or even knew existed.

And they we took him up to the village, and as soon as he got to the edge of the village, he immediately went up to a particular house. Is too big a word, cottage, I don't know.

Anyway, he went up to this little building and he knocked on the door, and a woman, an elderly woman, answered the door, and he called her by a pet name, and she immediately responded because she then said that that the only person had ever called her by that name was a lover that she had had, but that she was married to a woodcutter, and he had come back one day and caught them, and as he was trying to climb out the window to get away, the woodcutter, who was holding

his axe, had killed him with this axe. So everything this kid said turned out to be true anyway, So, and if you look at the work of Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker, you'll see there's there's literally several thousand of these kinds of stories. Anyway, I began this research, and I decided that what I was going to do was to spend my life studying consciousness.

Right, And that's basically what I have done ever since. I mean I have done other things, you know, As you know, I was the Special Assistant to the Chief of Naval Operations, to the MIT Secretary of Defense, Discussion Group on Innovation Technology in the Future, consultant to the Oceanographer of the Navy. Right, I wrote the speech that John Mourner gave at

bi Centennial when he was by Centennial Commissioner. Yeah, I'm curious because around that time, i'd say, the late seventies, you launched the Morbius Society, And I'm curious what were the goals when you when you launched that. And then we're gonna talk We're gonna get into the Alexandria project here in a second, but talk about the goals and the wonderful protocol that you developed using

academia and intuition and psychic awareness. Well, when I was special assistant, there was a project that began that the Navy was interested in, how do you communicate with a deep ocean ballistic missile submarine without bringing it to the surface because if it got close to the surface, Soviet satellites could pick up the heat bloom from the reactor, so they didn't want them to come up to the surface. They wanted them stay submerged. So they started a project to

see how deeply electromagnetic radiation could penetrate into the ocean. It was called Project SENDWIN and then Project ELF, or maybe it's the other way around, ELF and then SENDWIN. But in any case, the Navy spent about one hundred and twenty five million dollars figuring out very precisely two things, how deep radio radiation could penetrate into seawater and what the bit rate of transmission was. That is, how much information you could get across. If you saw, for

instance, to the movie to Search for Red October. You know there's a scene in there where they get a message and they have to go to a book and open it up. And because the bit rate of transmission for ELF extreme low frequency three to three hundred hurts is extremely limited, and so all you get across is a few numbers, and so the submarines have a board. The submarines are books which say, you know, one to three means

target this city, and then four means to fire or whatever. So it's very little little bits of information, far less than remote viewing can provide anyway. So they had done all of this, and at that time the big question in parapsychology was is what we call psychic electromagnetic in nature? And so I was reading all of this stuff and and then John Warner of Sectarian Navy at that point asked me to go up to Groton, Connecticut with him to

launch a nuclear submarine. And on the plane was him and Rick Over, the father of the nuclear Navy, created all the nuclear navy in and I had this experiment in mind, and I had in preparing for a speech that I had written for Admiral Zumwalt Elmo Zumwalt, I had come across research a book which said Admiral Lord Nelson in the Battle of Abu Kirbey the Battle of the Nile, in which he fought the French Admiral Bruyer, he because of

the nature of the cannons aboard the ships at that time in the seventeen hundreds, the black powder caused so much smoke that it was hard for the ships to see what was going on or to get to get commands from their commander. So Nelson created this system which I'm brilliant in which he had the frigates smaller ships sort of like destroyers today. They would sail up and down.

And he had created a code book and there was a picture. When I was doing this research for this speech, there was I was looking for some historic reference. There was a picture in the book of this manual that Nelson had created. So if there was a red flag with a white stripe that meant to do something TAC left, and if it was a blue flag with white dot that meant TAC light. I mean, I just made that up, but it was. He created what he called an associated command, and

I thought, well, that would be very interesting to do. It would be an associated what we now call what I created the protocol associated remote viewing. And so I also was reading all of this literature and this big argument that was going on in parapsychology about is all of this electromagnetic nature? I mean, the idea of telepathy, a word that was coined back in the nineteenth century. The concept of it was that you were sending a signal to

another person, that your brain was sending a signal to their brain. That's the way people conceived of telepathy. And I did not think that was correct, But the only way to test it would be to put a person in a condition where he was completely shielded or they were completely shielded from electromagnetic radiation,

because then if that was true, then it couldn't be electromagnetic. So also at this same time we're talking here in the early seventies, a friend of mine was the head of the CIA, and he began to send me because everybody knew of my interest in a parapsychology consciousness research. I don't like the word parapsychology either, because it means standing next to psychology, which is not the right conceptual word anyway. So I began getting these translations of what

had been classified documents. A man named Leonid Vassiliev who was a scientist working in then Leningrad now St. Petersburg, and he was putting people down into caves and into mine shafts, into Faraday cages. We would shield from electromagnetic radiation down in the caves or down in the mines, and he would ask them to do non local perception, which is the correct term, by the

way. He would ask them to do tasks in which they would acquire information from the non local domain that they couldn't know intellectually and they were able to do it, and so he was. He was I was getting these papers from from this friend of mine, from Vassiliev, and Vassiliev finally said, well, the only way that this could be working is if it was ELF

extreme low frequency electromagnetic three to three hundred herds. And at about that same time a researcher in Canada, Michael Persinger, who was advocating that this was in fact the explanatory, the explanation for non local perception. He also argued in his paper that it must be ELF. So I thought, oh, okay, well I will see if I could get somebody to put me aboard a submarine that was at depth, because I knew exactly how deep it had

to be because of this sixth project that the Navy had done. And as I said, I was on this flight up to Groton, Connecticut that Warner had asked me to go along with him, and Rickover, the father of the nuclear Navy, was a board, and I asked him if he would let me do this experiment. I explained what it was, and he said,

well, let me think about it. And about a week later, I've got a call, and he called me up and he said, I've been thinking about that experiment you asked me about, and no, I'm not going to do it, because even though we make it secret, it will inevitably somebody will leak the data. Too many people will find out about it, and the media will get hold of it, and they'll start talking about the deep ocean nuclear submarines with ballistic missiles, and we'd prefer that not happen.

We really, I mean, most Americans have no idea that there are nuclear submarines going around with ballistic missiles. It's part of what's called the the Triad defense strategy. Anyway, So I'm sorry. It's an interesting experiment, but we're not going to do it. So I thought, well, it will never happen. We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today,

Stephen Schwartz. Be right back. My guest today is Stephen Schwartz, the author of the Secret Vaults of Time, who has done extensive work using remote viewing in archaeological digs. Anyway, I left government because of Watergate. I just I couldn't tell the good guys from the bad guys, and I thought, I can't work like this. So I literally walked away from a career and I decided to go out and explore using what again I called at that

point distant viewing in archaeology. And the reason I did that was I wanted to create an experiment, a protocol that was so rigorous that it would be impervious to criticism, because I don't like to be embarrassed, and so I at that At the same time in archaeology, the big discussion that was going on was where to look, because at that point, most archaeological finds were

made because we're serendipitous. You know, a farmer would be plowing in his field and find a tomb, or a road crew would be building a road and find a temple, or you know, something like that, and so the big discussion amongst archaeologists is where to look? And I thought, well, here's a perfect example. This is perfect triple blind conditions. That is, nobody will know the answer at the time that I get the information,

so it's pure triple blind. There is no way you could get this answer any other way because in parapsychology, at that point, criticism of the remote doing to exist yet in parapsychology. But I mean was the only person doing it. The big argument and criticism was, oh, you know you, it was the way your facial expression and you cued them as to what to

say, or yeah, I mean, all kinds of nonsense. So there was one one denier who claimed that they had the people doing the response, had someone up on the up above them and the floor above them who drilled a hole through the floor. This is where they would say, I'm holding a card, you know, can you tell me what card was? Zenner cards, that kind of thing. Yeah, anyway, so I thought, well, this is perfect. I'll combine the electric issue with location issue,

and I went to I left government. I went to to Tucson to write a book called The Secret Vaults of Time, because I wanted to write a book about all of the use of remote viewing in archaeology. Prior to my getting involved, remote viewing, you know, I mean, did not begin with me, or with Russell targor how put off. People have been doing remote viewing for thousands of years. The oldest remote viewing that we have that he can call remote viewing. Obviously, the oldest remote viewing that we have

is in the forty sixth chapter of Herodotus. Herodotus is considered the father of history, and he's describing an experiment that took place in the fifth century BC. And this was an experiment. Today we would call this an outbound protocol. But basically King Cresus, king of the Olidians, which is now part of Turkey, learned that he was going to be attacked by the Persians and

he was obviously very concerned. They were much larger than his army, his kingdom, and so he was very concerned about this and thought, we know what can I do? And he finally decided, well, he would go and consult the oracles. In Greece at that time, there were seven oracles. These were temples where they would train young people, young women in the

or young men, mostly women. They would train them in a meditation technique that would allow them to open to non local consciousness to give non local perception information to people who came to the oracles. So he assembled seven teams of people, sort of seven diplomatic units, and he told them all, I want you to go out to the oracles. I want you to wait for the hundredth day. And on the hundredth day, I want you to go into the oracle, and I want you to ask the oracle what is Creesus,

son of ali Etes, King Olydian's doing today. And so these seven teams of people went out to the seven oracles, and the only one we know because Herodotus wrote it down in the forty sixth chapter when they all came back after the hundredth day. And it took a long time because they had to travel. These were long sea voyages to get to the where the oracles were located. So the only one we know about is the oracle from Delphi.

And on the hundredth day they went in to where the oracle was, and this was a young woman who was sitting in a kind of tripod, hanging in the seat over a cleft in the earth from which hydrocarbons, which produced psychedelic effects, bubbled up. And before they even asked their questions, she said, I can count the sands of time, the hundred days, and the great ocean, the trip that they had just taken, and I see a great urn, a bronze urn hanging from a tripod with a bronze

lid, and a sheep and a tortoise being cut up and thrown into the boiling water of the thing. And of course it didn't make any sense to him at all. They didn't have any idea what she was talking about. But they wrote it all down as they had been instructed to do, and they went back and when they got back to Creasus in Lydia. And by the way, the reason we know Creasus is as rich as Cresus because he

was the first person in the Greek world to coin money. Anyway, when they got back and each of the teams reported, when the Delphi team reported what they had heard been told, he bowed down and gave obesience because Cresus on that day had decided, what can I do that nobody could possibly guess I would do, because if they'd said, well, he's sitting on his

throne issuing edicts, well that's what kings do. So he had a great bronze urn brought into his courtyard of his palace and hung from a tripod and with a big bronze lid, and he filled up with water, and he personally cut up a lamb and a tortoise and threw it into the water just exactly as she had described, and so he decided that he would listen to the Delphic Oracle. But in any case, that is the first remote viewing

we had have. There are many others. What we created in the seventies are in the late sixties I started in sixty eight was very rigorous protocols in which you could not claim that you had gotten the information in any way other than non local perception. And this is the more bious societies. This the company that you and so I left government. I went out to let me

go on. Then I went out to Tucson to write this book and to do an remote viewing archaeological project up in the Little Elden Mountains up above Flagstaff, Arizona, and I wrote this book. I along with a guy named Joe Long at the American Anthropological Association, I started what became the Association for the Anthropology of Consciousness, and I, out of the blue, I got a invitation. Peter Tompkins and I had been talking about writing a biography of

a man named Manly Hall. Peter Tompkins wrote Secret Life of Plants and co wrote it with Chris Bird and Secrets of the Great Pyramid Secrets of the Mexican Pyramid, and so he had contacted them, and Henry Drake, who was

the vice president there, had called me in and invited me out. So I went out to Los Angeles, and while I was there, I stayed with a friend of mine, Don Keach, who had been the deputy director of Navy Labs, and he and his best friend, guy named Don Walsh, who had made the deepest dive in history, had taken over the Institute of Marine and Coastal Studies at the University of California excuse me, Southern California.

University of Southern California. And while I was there Don Keach we were having lunch and he said to me, you know that crazy submarine experiment you wanted to do, And I said, yeah, but we were never able to do it. Where you're going to get a submarine? And he said, well, as it happens, we have a research submarine that's coming down to do its sea trials at our facility on Catalina Island. And Don and I have talked it over and we're prepared to fund three days to let you

do that experiment. I'd like to see how it comes out and I said, Okay, let's do it. So I came out to Los Angeles and I moved out there, and this is the summer of seventy seven, and I designed this experiment which came to be called Deep Quest. And the point of the experiment was one to determine by getting, first of all, asking people to locate on a map the location of a previously unknown wreck on the sea floor between Catalina Island and the mainland of the United States. One that

was the first thing. Second thing, because that would test whether you could go through the water, whether ELF could explain it. And then the second part was to put remote viewers aboard the submarine, one at a time and submerge them to depth and asked them to describe, just like the Creases experiment, where in this case Russ Targe and how put Off, who I had

just met, where they were hiding. And so I was originally going to use George McMullen and Alan Vaughan as the viewers, but Alan got the flu and George McMullen had a co worker at the Dealer car dealership where he worked whose wife had a child early a premature child, and he couldn't leave because

the other guy was home with his wife and their new baby. So I had literally just met Ingo Swan and Hellahammed, and I asked them to be the remote viewers to come with me as to go into the submarine, and I had previously sent out a seat copy of the sea chart. What you do is take all the colors off and the names off, and you make it into a blueprint. So and it's all one color or the blue and

the grayish blue and the white. Because I knew from research I had done in psychology that people are attracted to specific colors, and so the way to avoid that is eliminate the colors and get the names off. And so I sent them just as I had back in the day when I had had the grid in my yard. I sent them out sea charts had been made into blueprints and said, please locate a previously unknown wreck on the sea floor and

described for me in detail what I will find when I go there. And they did, and then I turned it over to the Institute and they're one of their officers created what for me a master map, because what you're looking for is that we're consensus where people multiple people described the same location and I so we this submarine came down called the Taurus from a company called Hiko which was up in Canada, and we went out in the submarine and I had

a surface ship that's that was the support vessel for the submarine. Go to the exact location that the consensus zone that they picked and to drop a location device called the PingER that goes ping, ping, ping, and you just home in on it. And so they did that, and then we sank down to the bottom of the ocean and we listened for the ping Ingo Swan was aboard of any fine tuning. The night before, Hella had come to me and described I looked in and we looked for consensus on what are called

Lowa priority things you'd never expect to hear. And the night before we did the dives, Hella had come to me and said, you're going to find a big stone block about five by six by seven and it's a big granite block. And I thought, what in the world would that be about. Let me stop be real quick, stephen is this was this off the California

coast. That these wrecks were a wreck, a single wreck, okay, yes, And I had the Bureau of Land Management Marine Sites Board, who know they keep track of every wreck on the West coast of the United States. I said, do you know of such a wreck? And the head of the Marine Sits Board said, there is no wreck there that we know about. So again triple blind. So we went there and they had just

scribed in detail. They said this was a wooden ship, that it had sunk about nineteen oh six, that it did that because it had a it had a kind of steam engine on the deck that had blown up and set fire to the ship, and it had sunk in place, and uh, and that we would find the remains of the of this steam engine that was on the ship that ran some kind of uh, some kind of crane I think, and uh, that we would find that we would find the stern wheel of the ship and a and the shaft on it, that we would

see that. And then as they say, hell, I came in and described this granite block we would find and I filmed all of this. You can go to my personal website www. Stephane Schwartz dot com and you can see the movie. I got Leonard Nimoy, doctor Spock, to do the narration for the movie and anyway, So we homed in on the PingER and there exactly as you'll see in the film. There was the wreck exactly where they had placed it, and it was exactly as they described it. We

found part of the steam engine for the winch. We found the wheel with the shaft, and we found Hella's big block. And you were using your your protocol of the psychics Hella and I don't know if it was pad or not. No, that wasn't an ingo. Were the ones on site? Right? So you had them? And what else did you use as your protocol? Did you have? The like created a protocol called the Mobius consensus protocol where you get multiple people to do the remote viewing. You break you

break down, you transcribe the tapes. Because they did them. They were I got I've forgotten now eight eight people to do this. They were scattered all over the place. Send me the tapes, send me back the maps that I sent them, and then I take You transcribe the tapes and then you break them down concept by concept. So if I said, for instance, the man who's interviewing me in the blue shirt, that would be man

interviewing sitting blue shirt. That's five concepts, So each concept gets evaluated correct, partially correct, can't be evaluated incorrect. And I know from now sixty years of doing this that we expect to see about thirty five to forty percent of the material you can't evaluate. That doesn't mean it's wrong, you just can't evaluate it. If you know, if somebody told you what somebody was thinking, unless they left a message or a note or something, there was

no way that you would know. So thirty five to forty percent of material you can't evaluate because there's no way to do it. Of the remaining percent, you expect to see somewhere between seventy five and ninety percent of the information be evaluated is correct or partially correct, but operational. Partially correct would be if I said the man interviewing me in the black shirt, then I would be wrong because it's a dark blue shirt, but it would still be operational.

So I went through that process, and so we when we went to dive in the in the Taurus, I knew we were looking for a ship. We were looking for a ship that had caught fire and sunk. That it had a winch aboard, a steam engine winch which had blown up, and that we would find this shaft with the with the wheel on it, we would find the remains of the of the winch Uh steam engine, and we would find this block and it would have happened approximately in nineteen six.

Wow, that's amazing. So it's very specific. Yeah, I mean, I really want to emphasize. This gets very very specific. Yeah. Well, so we dived on it and we found the ship. So that was the foundation for the Morbius Society. Yes, can we go forward a little bit. I'd like you to talk about the Alexandria project and how you came about with the different targets. Well, okay, that's nineteen seventy seven.

So I presented this paper about this project project deep quest and oh and also by the way, Hella and Ingo each successfully accurately described where hal and Russ were hiding. And the importance there is that in both this and the archaeological part, the amount of data transmitted was far in excess of what you could do with ELF and they were it was at great depth, and so that ended the discussion. There was no way that you could explain remote viewing or

telepathy as electromagnetic in nature. That's not what's happening despite all the people that had claimed that was what it was. So anyway, so that one individual who thought that it was a frequency generated detectable energy was wrong when he talked about remote viewing. Yes, okay, well he didn't call it remote viewing, but he got people to do what I would call non local perception to a local perception, right, okay, which is the proper way to think

of it. Anyway, So I did. I presented these papers and they got a lot of you know, there was a lot of media coverage, and I made this I cut this film and I put it in a show called In Search of and I got Leonard Nemoi to do the narration. Anyway, So in UH seventy eight, I was approached by two women historians who came to me. I was in Los Angeles and they came to me and they asked me, could you locate the tomb of Alexander the Great and the

palace of Cleopatra and the Timonium of Mark Anthony. And I said, well, I don't know. Yeah, you know, I'm willing to try if you can get the funding. And they said, oh, we've got the funding, but we just we need somebody to do this. Nobody knows where these things are located. So you know that from my point of view, Oh nobody knows. Well, then it's triple blind. So I said, well, okay, if you've got the funding and well, let's give it a run. So that became the Alexandria Project. Wow, and I had

eleven people who were remote viewers. Once again, I got charts that maps of Alexandria, Egypt and the Eastern Harbor, and I sent them out to these people and I said, please locate the tomb of Alexander, and locate Cleopatra and Mark Anthony. And oh, while you're at it, why don't you locate the Lighthouse of Pharaohs one of the seven Wonders of the ancient world? Why did you pick the lighthouse of the Pharaoh of Pharaohs? Was that because it was in the general vicinity of Yeah, okay, it was.

It was in the general of a sended and it was one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. That was a lot of looking for it. Yeah, okay, I'm really curious to hear this because, uh, these things were buried in they thought it was underwater, right, No, nobody knew where they were. No one knew where they were. Okay, all

right, so okay, so people did the locations for me. They located the tomb of Alexander, which was under a mosque, the mosque of Nevy Daniel, and the lighthouse, and Cleopatra's palace, and Mark Anthony's palace, the Timonium and the Pompei pillar. Those were all located out in the harbor, which nobody knew at the time. Okay, now again, because I want things to be extremely meticulous, I run a parallel to the remote viewing part of it. I asked people to do electronic remote survey surveys of the

same area. What was it? What was the technology back? And it wasn't satellite taking scar? Side scan soonar very good. Yeah, So I didn't know him at all. I looked up side scan SONAR. I didn't really know a lot about it, and I discovered it had been invented by a man named Harold Edgerton who was the chairman of radio physics at M I T. And I sent him a telegram and said, I'm over here,

I'm doing this. I'm using this non local perception technique and would you come over and do the side scan sonar of the same area to see if side scan sonar can locate what the remote viewers are locating. And he, with being a real scientist, said well, if you can do it between a certain date in May when I'm available, I'm your man. You fly me first class and put me up in a good hotel. I said, I

can do that. So I had Harold Edgerton come over and do I mean, you just couldn't get any better than that, wow, and do the side scan sonar of the Eastern Harbor, and he reported. We published a

paper together. He reported he couldn't find anything. But the remote viewers had not only located all of the things that we're talking about, but they had also said the city once extended much further out into what is now the bay, and that there was a shift and the so Edgerton, who was a lovely man, came out with his side scan sonar gear and he did a survey and he reported, I don't see anything. And I had I put

together teams of people who are experts in various things. I had Mikailowski Rajeyevich, who was a Polish archeologist who was at that time the leading Alexandrian archaeologist in the world. He's a Russian. Now he's Polish. I thought he was okay, bullish, all right. And and I had Peter Fraser, acknowledged by everybody to be the leading historian of Alexandria egypt history, who was

at All Souls College at Oxford as my consultants. And I had Harold Edgerton, chief of radio physics lab at m I t as my side scan sonar. So I go to the top. Yeah, anyway, So we then went diving. I got the the egypt I go into the head of the Egyptian Navy, the Admiral, and I got him to give me his diving. He had a commando team of divers and they would help me dive, and as well as myself and one of the women who was an experienced diver,

and we went. The thing about this is this is not about searching. Using non local perception in archaeology is not about searching. It's about finding. You just go to the exact place that they tell you it's either there or it's not there. Well, let me ask you about that real quickly. When you're not using the site scan sonar data is people are people like Hella giving you longitude longitude latitude? Are they giving you land points to reference?

How are they picking these locations? They locate them on a map, little circle. So they had you had a map of the of the bay, had a map of Alexandria. It was a British military map, Okay, And I made it into I made it again. I made it into a blueprint, took all the names off all that. I mean, I can show you pictures of all this. And in fact, you can watch this movie too, because I made a movie of this as well. I

actually saw this one Alexandria project. You have a couple of movies. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, Well in any case, so we went diving and we found first of all, and from Rajeevitch's point of view, the most important was we found that the ancient sea wall was about thirty feet further out than the present day seawall, and and that Cleopatra's palace was underwater, Mark Anthony's palace was underwater, Pompey's pillar was underwater, and the lighthouse of

Pharos was underwater. Wow, And we we photographed all of that. We you know, as you saw the film and the remote viewers it was exactly

as they described it, and that was all confirmed by Brjeevic. I got Mustafa Ellabetti, who was the head of of of Anthropology at the University of Alexandria, and Dao Abu Daoud, who was the president of the Archaeological Society, who was also a professor at the university, and another professor called Fausi Fakarani, and all of these guys were part of the consulting team that I used to evaluate the accuracy of the dad and to compare what the remote viewers

found versus what you could find electronically. Now, let me stop. You're just right there, Stephen. This is fabulous, fantastic, mind blowing data. You actually found each of the places that you were sent out to look for. This is prime material for the Smithsonian or for the National Geographic Obviously it's a little too much for them at that time of our history. How was this reported and did you have any reaction from the orthodoxy? Well,

it was picked up by media all over the world. It was okay, and I presented I wrote it up as I said. Harold Edgerton and I wrote a paper together and in which he reported what he found with the side scan, and I reported what I found with non local perception. I presented it at several archaeology conferences. Years later. One of the archaeologists was at that conference came to me and asked me to locate Christopher Columbus's caravel from his

fourth voyage, which we did. Yeah. I want to go into that in a minute, but I'm just really curious. I think you were too far ahead of yourself in seventy seven for people to react in the manner that they might today with all the technology we're using with LDAR and things, Sisko Star. I'm just curious. Did you feel that your reception was enough? Because to my mind, it's almost like this should be taught in colleges,

you know, I mean it got a lot of media attention. I wasn't seeking media attention, you know, I did one doing anything that I never have sought it. You know, just like our interview here, you came up, you called me, I don't solicit I don't solicit media attention, right, I mean, yeah, I got a lot of media attention. I went on the MERV Griffin show, The Door. They I can't think of her name. Now, oh o Oprah, I went I did Oprah? Yeah, no, I would Dinah Shore. Oh boy, we're talking

a long time ago, my friend. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, I did you know I did lots of interviews with lots of people Oprah at that point, at at a radio show in Chicago. Yeah, nobody attacked it. No, that's not true. One guy attacked it, but he was so it was so shoddily argued that he made a fool of himself. I mean, one of the reasons that I do this kind of extremely meticulous

There isn't anybody else that I know who does this kind of thing. Yeah, this very meticulous work is I don't want to have somebody standing up saying, oh, if only you've done whatever. Yeah you you wouldn't have been able to. That's how you found it. You read it up on some secret book. Yeah. Let me just stop you real quickly. This this is what I want to I want you to ask this answer this question. It's extremely expensive for a university to fund a dig in Egypt. It can

be in the millions of dollars. We've had a number of people on this program, uh talking about that. We've had doctor Richard Hanson, who's in Guatemala excavating the Big Mind sight El Miodor. Wouldn't it make sense if they had somebody using your protocol to help them pimp point because they're looking for a king or a queen, that's their primary goal. Wouldn't it make sense to pull somebody with your protocol in to help them? You'd think, so,

oh boy, But they don't. I don't know anybody else. I thought at one point that other archaeologists would pick this up, and I've published in meticulous detail exactly how I did it. You can get the papers. You go up to Academia dot du and download the papers, and you you know, it's all spelled out. I wrote a book called Opening to the Infinite, which tells you exactly how to do it. No, I don't know. I think it. I don't actually know why nobody has picked it up.

Yeah, I think it's it's it's it's too much for typical academia. They're they're too linear. They're they're thinking, is uh, isn't creative enough. I'm just shocked because I, like I'm saying, saying, I have I have archaeologists, Egyptologists on this program who are funded and they come back with bags of sand with a few nibbles here and there, and that's it. Yeah, of course, you know, and and and these guys. This seems like something that would be very useful. Yes, I've been doing

it, you know. I mean, you make a list of it. We did the did Question experiment. We located the unknown wreck on the sea floor. We did the Alexandria Project, which located all kinds of things we haven't even gotten into yet. I did the Caravel project to locate Christopher Columbus's thing. We did the project to find Queen Elizabeth's force that would stole him. We solved several murders. Yeah, that couldn't be solved otherwise. I mean I just did it over and over and over again, and I published

all these papers and spelled it out exactly how to do it. And yes, I think it's really the problem is people find it very hard to conceive that you actually could do this. I think that's the problem. I think there's two things. And I want you to highlight a few more things about Alexandria. Before we moved to Columbus. We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with

my guest today, Devin Schwartz, talking about remote viewing. We'll be right back. My guest today is Stephan Schwartz. He is a research investigator, a parapsychologist who has actively pursued psychics in the discovery of archaeological ruins, sites, and individuals from the ancient past. You in your bio you you're considered you consider yourself a futurist, and I think the issue is that you're you're using technique, technology and protocols that are too far ahead for current minds.

That's number one. Yeah. The other thing is that I think it's a challenge for teachers, professors of archaeology or anthropology to consider using your protocol, even though it could save them millions of dollars, could eliminate time and effort to find these questions. And I'm laughing because it's it's it's fascinating, and you have shown time after time that you can get excellent results for probably a hell of a lot less money than pointing a satellite at a certain location and

hoping you get results. So I want to move on real quickly, what was the most significant I mean, other than finding Alexander's tomb, the Palace

of Cleopatra, remains of the lighthouse, and so on. Was there something within that grouping that you thought was outstanding beyond the obvious archaeological Fine, that's a big one, because you did dig up quite a bit well, you know, in order to get permission to dive in the Eastern Harbor, which at that time seventy nine, you know, Russia had been in control of Egypt, and you weren't allowed to dive in the Eastern Harbor. So to get I wanted to get I had to get permission. I mean you literally

just couldn't do it. You had to get permission, right, and the archaeologists at the University of Alexandria were opposed to my doing that. So we finally ended up in a in a meeting in the office of the Governor of Alexandria at that time, the second most powerful man in the country, Mohammed Hilm and I had harold Edgerton with me. We went to the meeting together and they told me all the reasons they didn't want to do it, and

they then said the governor Hilmey who has got interested in it. He said, well, okay, let's do a test, and you know, can you design a test for him me? And they said, oh yes, yes, we could do that. We are beginning an excavation about forty kilometers further into the desert of a buried city called Maria that was once a kind of pleasure city, and we if he could locate a particular building then then okay, that would convince us. Well we don't think it's going to happen,

so he said. Governor Hillmey said to me, would you be willing to do that? I said, oh, yeah, sure, and that kind of surprised him. So that then we we've set it up and on the appointed time and day, I had George McMullen and Hella Hammed who had flown over into flown to Egypt and to do the on site because we start with the maps and then we do the onset. Only in this case they didn't have a map, so I couldn't do the map part. So I only had Hella and George. And again you can see this in the movie.

So Filszi Facarani was the professor was assigned to this who was doing the excavation. He knelt down in the sand and he said, look, I want you to locate a buried building in the city of Maria, and I want you to locate a building that's got mosaics, multiple room building with mosaics, something important. And so George McMullen, who was down in the knelt

kneeling in the sand with him, said okay. So we started out there was we were searching an area of about gosh, I don't remember, about seventeen hundred square kilometers and it's in the desert right you can see in the film. So we walk around for a couple hours. George is getting his bearings, and then he says, okay, I know where I want to go. And we go back and we say to Facarani, we know where

we want to go. And we get in our cars. He's got about, oh, I don't know, maybe ten graduate students that are with him in a couple of cars, and and I'm with Helen and George and Hell's in one car, George in another, and and we drive out where George tells us go turn left, turn right, and we get to this place.

He says, okay, stop the car and we get out of the car and George gets out and he starts walking up the hill and were everybody comes behind and we got the cameras are running and George says, I said, you know, you know where are we George? And he said, well, I'm walking over a wall. I said, you're walking over a wall. He said, yeah, wall. It's about three four feet down.

There are going to be three rooms and it's a Christian building, which very interesting, and it'll be just here, you know, just here, and he lays it out and I said to him, okay, George, thank you. And he goes away. And Hella, who's been sitting out in the sun now for it's about one hundred and fourteen degrees. Oh, Hella has been sitting out in the sun now for about three and a half

hours, and she's really getting sun strokes, she's getting sick. I bring her in and I don't ask her to walk around because I'm worried she's really going to get seriously ill. So I just take her to where George the general area where George had described, and I said, Hella, why don't you sit down? And so just find a place you want to sit down and so she walks around the top of this hill and she finally walks to this same place that Georgia had picked, sits down and she says, well,

okay, I'm sitting over a building. There are three rooms. In the middle of the second room, there is a strange clay column, and I associate heat with it. I don't know why. And it's a Christian building. And I can hear the archaeologists who are sort of in it, not you know, maybe twenty feet away. I can hear them snickering and laughing as they listen to all this fakarani, you know, making jokes about it. And she says, it's you know, it's here. There's three

rooms, there's this clay call Christian. Okay. Then she goes away and actually goes back to the hotel because by then she's really getting quite sick. I'm worried she's going to get sunstroke. And we bring George back and I say to George, I don't he doesn't know anything about Hella. Didn't He was not there, you know, he was off, he was driven away while she was doing her part. I say, George, I want you to go to the place that you've described and I have these wooden stakes,

which you put the stakes in the ground to lay out the building. Now you think about that, the corners, He said, okay, I'll do that. So he puts the stakes down exactly where he wants. He says, the corners are to be found, and he describes this, Uh, these little tiles red, black and white, about five six cinks of an inch clay on white clay on one side and marble on the other. Yeah, he says, but most of them were taken away, but there's still

a few of them there. And so it's all staked out. And he goes away, and Facarani and his team come up and they're just and they thought the whole thing was crap. It's just that simple. Why because and I didn't know this until afterwards. The University of Guelf had sent a team over to work with the Egyptians and they had done proton procession magnetometer survey, ground penetrating radar and proton procession magnetometer. They had done a survey of the

same area that George had picked and there was nothing there. Oh, and they had published a paper saying there's nothing there. So they showed me the paper. Ha ha, there's nothing there. You know you're not gonna pass the test. I said, well, let's dig down and see. So we dig down at three feet and a few inches. The first walls up here turns out their three rooms. Well, let me stop you, Stephan, let me stop you. The ground penetrating radar would have picked something if

it's good for like ten feet. Yeah, I didn't do it. So they missed it. They missed the walls, what you're seeing, they missed the whole building. Wow, amazing. I mean, I can you know if you look at the paper again, go to Academia dot EEDU look at it. It's called the Maria paper, and you can. You can watch that. You can see the whole thing. You can want it happen in the movie. Anyway, we get down it's exactly. George is twenty eight

inches off out of fourteen hundred square miles. Wow. And we dig down in their three rooms, and then we dig a little deeper and there's Ella's column. It turns out it was a Bedouin oven that must have been used by the Bedouins after the city had been abandoned, but before it was buried. We dig down a little further and there are the little tiles that George has described. We dig down a little further and we find the Christian concentration

consecration marks on the foundations of the building. Fakarani has told me, not only is there nothing there, but if there were anything there, it would be Roman, it wouldn't be Byzantine, it wouldn't wouldn't be Christian Byzantine. It couldn't possibly be laid out the way you described. And there's nothing there any way. I mean, they just thought the whole thing was I was

just going to be a huge embarrassment. I think in the in the movie, there's even a piece or two of the tile that they find, yeah, that they submit to an authority who verifies it. Yep, yep, of course. Yeah. Which, well, everything, everything gets verified, everything gets checked. Everything turns out to be exactly the way the remote viewers describe it. So we go back to Governor Helmy's office and with the archaeologists, and Governor Helmy says to him what happened, and they say, well,

i'm I'm I'm him him haha. They were correct, And and then Governor Helmy says, well, then we're going to get him permission to dive in the Eastern Harbor. So that was your test that you passed with flying colors, Yes, and that granted you access to the harbor. Yes,

that kind of a big deal, boy. Yeah. So we dive and we find the lighthouse, we find Cleopatra, and it's all authenticated by the archaeologists, and we find the ancient sea wall, which from the jo at this point of view, is the really big deal because it means that their whole understanding of how the city was laid out in the Ptolemaic period was wrong. It was all because they thought they didn't realize how much of the city had sunk under the sea. Wow. Anyway, so that's Alexandria. Then

the other thing is they located the tomb of Alexander. And we start digging, and this is nineteen seventy nine, and just at that time, the students in Iran in Tehran take over the America An embassy, if you remember that, and freak everybody out right, and the head of Antiquities comes down from Cairo and says to me, you're going to have to stop digging under this mosque. This mosque is a Shiite mosque and we're concerned that it may

stimulate people to do something that we just don't want to have happen. We're watching what's going on in Iraq and are in Iran, and we don't want that here. It will cause a lot of geopolitical issues. So you're gonna have to quit. So Okay, everything has proven so far to be correct, but we can't continue. So I'm very depressed about that cast down and we're driving away. George is in the car with me, and he says, oh, well, don't worry. The bones aren't there anyway. And

I said, what he said, The bones aren't there anyway. So what do you mean there aren't there? He said, well, when the Muslims took over Alexandria. That'd be six forty one C. When the Muslims took over Caliph Omar took over Alexandria. A group of monks came down from the monastery. There's a monastery that's up towards Cairo, that's out in the desert, and they masqueraded as merchants and they brought down some donkeys and some leather bags, and they went into what was at that time was a church.

But before that had been the soma, the tomb of Alexander, and they gathered up all the bones in the ossiuary and took them away and brought them up to the monastery, and that's where the bones are. And I said, well, gosh, George, that's fascinating, but this is before DNA. That's fascinating. But I mean, you know, a bunch of bones, how would I tell which were Alexander's? He said, oh, it'll

be simple. I said, really, how will it be simple? He said, well, when Mark Anthony was with Cleopatra and Alexandria, in order to establish a connection with Alexander, to give him status, he went into the tomb of Alexander, which had a crystal coffin. Ptolemy Philadelphia said, put it Alexander's mummified body in the crystal coffin. He had him opened it up, and he took off his red Russia as read Roman war cape, and he had him put the war cape around the body of Alexander and put

it back in the tomb, so that he was associated with Alexander. And after the Christians took over, they didn't really care about the tomb, and they had built a church. They weren't really maintaining it, and water seeped into the coffin and it leached the red dye from Mark Anthony's war Cape into the bones of Alexander. So you just look for the red bones. Oh boy, I thought, and I said, oh, well, that's very

interesting, George. Okay. So about two weeks later, a week later, I get a call from NBC and they say there's a monastery up near Cairo, out in the desert and they think they have found the bones of John the Baptist, and you have the only archaeologically trained film crew in the country. Would you go up and film for us this place where they found found these bones. I said sure. So we made a deal. And I says, as long you know, we're doing what we're doing, but

on a weekend we could go up and do that. And so we made a deal and I went up to what turned out to be the Monastery of San Macarius at Watti Natroon, which is basically an oasis out in the middle of the desert, and there's this huge structure it looks like a looks like a fort of some kind, only has one door. And I go up and have no phone. I go up and knock on the door, and this uh monk opens the door and I tell him why I'm here and about the John the Baptist, and he said, well, come in, and

I said, we don't tell me what's going on. I don't quite get it. And he said, well, we have a chapel that we associate with John the Baptist, and we don't know why, but we have always associated with John the Baptist. And we had a crack in the wall of the chapel, and when we were repairing the crack, we discovered this tomb. I said, really, and he said yeah, And I said what was in the tomb? He said, the bones are about fourteen people. Really, I said, I still haven't made the connection. I said,

that's very interesting. Do you know where the bones came from? He said,

oh, yes, we know exactly where they came from. And we go into the library and he opens up this ancient book and he says, you see what happened was when the Muslims took over Alexandria, a group of the brothers, the Christian monks, took their donkeys and some leather bags and they went down to Alexandria and they went to what is now the Mosque of Neby Daniel, and they went to the Ossiuary and they gathered up the bones, put them in the rubber and the leather bags, and brought them back

up here and buried them somewhere. We didn't know where. And now we understand that this is what we discovered. And I said, oh, I'll zee by. Now I'm really on target. I said, do you is there anything about any of the bones that is unusual? And he said, m no, not really. Well, a few of them are stained red, and I said, oh, really, could I see them? And he goes he said, oh yes. Then we go in and he there's

a big chest which looks I think is the altar of this chapel. And he turns out it's a chest and he takes everything off and he opens it up and they're in the chest is this bag, big red bag And he says, here their bones are here, and he opens it up and I can see and and but he won't let the film people fulfillm it because they believe that these are the some of the at least they know that's more than one person, but that some of them are the bones of John the Baptist,

and so they're holy relics and they don't want them photographed, so they only let me photograph the bag in the chest. Oh boy, but but okay, So but they got these red bones, and I said thank you very much. And so years go by and DNA begins to develop and is used in archaeology, and and I contacted the monks and said, would you let me come back to Egypt and get a little fragment from the bones because Alexander's father, Philip of Macedonia, his tomb had been found in that during

that period, and they've done a DNA analysis. So if I can get a little fragment of those red stained bones, we can do a DNA of it and see if it if it's linked to Phillips, because then we can prove that those are the bones of Alexander. And they and the abbot of the monastery, who was the monk that opened the door for me, originally says no, I'm not going to let you do that. I don't want

to do that. But the younger monks come to me and say, after the abbot's gone, we got a new abbot, we'll let you do it. So in the Monastery of San Makarios in watt Watting, I believe are the bones of Alexander the Great and they are just waiting for someone to do a DNA analysis. Fantastic. That is a fantastic and a way to conclude our time together, Stephan. I want to thank you, UH for forgiving us such great insight into this UH story, into into your personal journey into

what we can only consider psychic archaeology. For those of those who are listening who want more information, I want to mention that Stephen has a wonderful newsletter he publishes every day. It is the Schwartz Report dot com I believe dot net dot net you can see god year's worth of writing and published information. Give us the other contact points for you, Stevens, so people can learn more. Go to my personal website www. Stephen A. Schwartz dot com, ste p h A n A s h W A r t z dot

com. You can see the movies of all the things I've just described. UH. You can go to academia dot edu or go through my web by personal website. You can get all my papers. You should also make you will go to YouTube and just type in Stephen Schwartz and volumes of video and movies material that you've published. So so you've got lots of You can get all the books. You go to Amazon, or go to my website, my personal website. Again, you can get all my books, you can

get all my papers. I make everything openly available. I do not. There are no secrets, there are no classified material. I would not do classified research. I turned down a million six a year because I would not do classified research. I think anything we know about consciousness ought to be made immediately available to everybody who's interested. So all of my stuff for all of these years, the papers, the books, the films, the interviews,

it's all freely available, and which is wonderful. Now. One of the things I want to mention, and for those of you listening, this is something very important. Stephen has been working on future psychic review remote viewing and has created two research movements or protocols. He calls them the twenty fifty and

the twenty sixty Research Investigation. We're going to have Stephen back to talk about those because they present some very interesting aspects of Homo sapiens on Earth, and as I'm happy to report, we don't kill ourselves, but we are radically different in twenty fifty and twenty sixty, and Steve has done some great work, so we're gonna have to have him back to discuss both those research projects. So Stephen, thank you very very much for your time. We'll have

you back again. That was much longer than I had anticipated, but there's a lot of great data in that interview. And I want to remind you that I'm going to have Stephen back on the program because he's done extensive work

on remote viewing the future, and he's got two projects. One is called twenty fifty and then he's got a new one he started to think, he said about five six years ago, called twenty sixty Future Look, and he's already come across with some pretty astounding material, including a new hominin, a

genetically created human using technology called gene splicing. And we've had people on Destiny talking about a technology called Crisper, and Crisper has been out now for a few years, but they are able to modify people with certain disease processes, certain conditions, and it has what looks like the capability to make a very very impressive homo sapien sapien or a whole different type of hominin, a whole different type of human being, a genius, physically resistant to various diseases,

very attractive, you know, a whole breed of superhumans. So that's kind of fantastic. But I've spoken to him enough to know that we got to get him back to talk about that. So he's probably going to be back at the end of the year to talk about remote viewing or psychic viewing of the future using his very stringent protocol. So I was very impressive with what he had to say about archaeology, and I could speak on in about the

possibilities of finding important data on partially unveiled data. In other words, I'm fascinated by the Mayan pyramids, and they're not just standing stone effigies to the guys, they're actually functioning. I'd like to know more about that, and

I think remote viewing would be a one way to look at it. The other way, of course, is if you remember, we had the man who says to day was talking about the two Italian scientists who used a new type of scanning tech in a satellite is an acoustic wave technology and scan the chips Pyramid Giza in Egypt and found new rooms and passages and corridors and shafts that go deep, deep, deep under the pyramid, perhaps one hundred feet

or more, connecting with most likely other shafts, canals, whatever you want to call them. And I'd love to have that happen, or I'd love to have a scan of a number of the Maya pyramids that are noted to be very old. But I've just finished, you know, writing articles in a chapter in my book on this Quitzo quad or the serpent plump feathered Serpent pyramid at Tiotikon, and I think it's a machine. And I've talked about this a great deal and people go, well, no, what do you

believe that? Well, I'm not an engineer, but I sure wished the hell that Gonzalez, the guy who excavated that tunnel and was a very gracious host, had brought more technology to bear to find out what's going on there, because I don't believe the Tiuanakins had anything to do with the building of that pyramid. They came along, probably thousands and thousands of years after the thing was around, and resettled it. And this is the real problem with

naming a civilization or a culture as the initial founders of a site. And Tiunako Tiuanakin is a great example of that, simply because it was around before this other culture came. Same thing can be said with the Aztecs, same thing we can be said with the dynastic Egyptians. We see it in these temples. You come over with us and take a look at some of these temples. They are true megalithic temples. Their floors are massive blocks of sandstone,

megalithic walls, ceilings, roofs, columns just out of sight. And you know, these egotistical pharaohs put their cartouche on these places and said they're mine. I built them, I am laying claim to them, and they have no right to do that. In fact, I would love to see and Egyptologists begin to really look at some of these temples closer and perhaps do

a little more digging. Kind of a problem in Egyptology when they don't want to use new technology, and we hear people from the Antiquities Department, most notably Zahi Hawass, saying that they don't want to use outside resources. They want to stay local, stay Egyptian, and just used their people well, basically closing the door on anything that's going to happen fairly reason so. Anyhow, wonderful they have Stephen Schwartz. I hope you enjoyed that. And again

we're gonna have him follow up for to look at the future. His research is amazing. Please get his free newsletter. It's the Schwartz Report dot org. Every single day he posted something and replies to his thousands of Subscribers's free. It's completely free. He does ask for a donation after a while, but some of the research is just fascinating, and some of the things he's pointed his team to look at and reveal are pretty fascinating as well. So

check that out. Hey, we have a few spots left in our Maya tour November tenth through the seventeenth. Remember we're gonna start at Leventa. We fly into Mexico. The city is called Villa Hamosa and that's just a few miles from Leventa, which is kind of the heart of the Olmec. We're gonna see world class Olmec museums. We're gonna see levent in the city.

We're gonna get a sense of what the Olmes we're all about, and the next day we jump on a bus and we head to the crown Jewel of Mayan aristocrats, and that is Plank And I've been wanting to go to Polanky for as long as I can remember. That's We're gonna be there for two

days. Our host is doctor Edwin Barnhardt. He will be showing us the first day just the general layout, which takes a good day, and then the second day he is going to take us to the offbeat pyramids, temples and other buildings that are not visible to the general public, and he is going to show us some of the most fascinating sites that you could imagine.

The reason that he knows all this is that as a young graduate student, he surveyed the complete city civic area and also excavated quite a bit of it, and he knows what's going on there. So you can't get better guide than somebody who surveyed for the Mexican government for Ena, the archaeological component of Mexico's government. He did that for them, and he knows what's going on,

So that's going to be a blast. The following day or two will go to bottom Pack and some other Mayan cities he has selected just for our group. Now, this is a one week tour, so he's going to pack a ton of material into that, add a few lectures and it will go really quickly. For more information in the full itinerary, go to Earth Ancients dot com, forward slash tours t O U R S. Check it out. I think we got two or three spots left. I think the

max we were gonna take was twenty five. I think we're a couple of people fell or dropped out. So don't wait if you want to join us November tenth through the seventeenth, check that out. Now. We have made two announcements since that. Our Grand Egyptian Tour five is happening. That's April twenty eighth, May nine, twenty twenty four. That's filling up quickly. We just posted our new itinerary. Check out the ninerary for this tour.

If you've been wanting to go to Egypt, if you've been listening to Earth Ancients for years and go, hey, I couldn't do it. I can't do it. I just do it. I just can't. Now's your chance. Now is your chance. And I gotta tell you people are charging ten fifteen grand for this, We charge barely five thousand. It covers everything, all your food, all your beverages, all your air flights, all your bust tour, private tours the temples. We have more private visits than any

other tour I've ever seen. That means we get to see the Red, the Bent, the Grand Pyramids, all by ourselves without the general public. Check out the itinerary Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours that just got launched a few weeks ago. But you don't want to stick around. You don't want to wait on that because it's filling quickly. People have been delayed because of the pandemic and now are jumping on board, and I'll tell you it's

filling up fast. The last thing I want to mention is that we're doing Turkey in likely August twenty twenty four. I don't have the itinerary, we're still playing with it, but I mentioned this and Muhammad mentioned it on our last Egypt tour. We're already full, we got like thirty people, but we're gonna expand it. We're gonna expand it, So if you want to

join us for the first Turkey tour, Earth Ancient Turkey tour. Our host is Muhammad Imbrium, plus a couple of other academics will give us private visits of the Gobeckley Teppi, Carahan Teppi, this news site, the Darren Kuru, the Underground City, and many many other amazing sites that you will never see on your own. Send me an email to Earth Ancients for you at gmail dot com. I'll get you on the list. I'm hoping to make

an official announcement soon. We're still fine tuning the itinerary because there's a lot of really cool things that I wanted to see, and I think I stretched the time limit a little bit. Twelve days goes by really really fast when you are seeing these amazing, world class sites. So if you want to join us, like I said, we're probably going to extend it to forty people, maybe more, send me an email Earth Ancients for you at gmail dot com and get that on that list. So it's gonna be fun.

That's gonna be a fun tour. Oh my god, so much going on. Hey. As a final note, if you're enjoying Earth Ancients, please consider becoming a subscriber for as little as five bucks. What loose change in your pocket five bucks a month, you can support the work we do here on the program to become a subscriber to Patreon that's PA t R e O N dot com, Forward Slash Earth Ancients and subscribe for as little as five, ten, fifteen, even twenty bucks a month. If you can afford

it, you keep the lights on it. And I gotta tell you we have a team that requires payment. Yes, you pay people for the work they do, and I got a good one. I got a good team again. For more information, go to patreon dot com, Forward Slash Earth Ancients. And by the way, I place an ebook on the list every almost thirty days. We've got a great library for you. It's our gift

for being a subscriber. Oh my god, all kinds of great books by many of the people here on Earth agents some of them are from Destiny. And that's our thank you for being a subscriber. So I want to thank the following people for subscribing in the month of August. I want to thank Christy, John Montgomery, Music, Anthony North, Jason Yashida, Evan Kirkwood, Tina Smith and Sammy. You guys, rock, I really appreciate your help and your your subscriptions, Patreon, dot com, Forward slash Earth Agents.

All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest today, Stephen Schwartz remember Schwartz Report dot org. As always, the team of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster, and Chris Hazel. You guys rock all right, take care of we will and we will talk to you next time.