Special Edition: Jonathon Miller Weisberger, Rainforest Medicine

the rainforest of the Amazon. In the book we're focusing on is Rainforest Medicine, which was written by Jonathan Miller Weisberger almost eleven years ago, and it's very appropriate today because we're talking about plant medicines from an ethnobotanist who can give us not only the insight on the medicines that are psychedelic based ayahuasca, DMT and other plant derivatives that cause us to leave our conscious minds and move into other dimensions, but it's a chance to also celebrate Earth,

celebrate the changing seasons, and also consider how we move forward, what the next phase of our evolution is. You might say, how does that fit in with the Earth Ancients theme. Well, as you will hear we're talking about lost realms. You've

heard of move which is also known as limoria. Of course we talk about Atlantis, but in part of our interview today there are regions of the Amazon that are recognized as being populated by people who migrated from Limoria and move and there's a there's a region that also was home to giants, people that were over seven feet tall and left their wisdom with the people known as

the Sequoia Indians of the Amazon. And we're gonna learn about not only the giants, but some of the plant medicine wisdom that was handed down thousands and thousands of years ago. We don't hear enough about plant medicine used from ancient, an ancestral point of view, how our ancestors

incorporated it. Another thing that I didn't realize is this book that we're talking about today gets into the proper preparations for ayahuasca and how to collect the leaves and who to work with, because there's a lot of different people who are claiming to be ayahuasca experts and this is becoming some kind of an industry, especially in Peru. We know that people like our friend Graham Hancock travels

to Peru occasionally and partakes in ceremony vision quest. But you have to be very very careful who you get involved with. So there's steps in this book reinforest medicine, on how to look for the good shaman, how to partake, how to prepare a tea or a broth, and most importantly, how to prepare and what intentions to use for the ayahuasca ceremony. But again that's only part of our discussion.

This is actually gets into some important anthropology, some archaeological parks that we will talk about archaeology as a whole, all in celebration of the autumn equinox. So today's program

is Rainforest Medicine, and my guest is Jonathan Miller Weisberger. Hey, we're going to be in the jungle this December first through the twelfth on the Guatemala Sacred Temple Tour, and this is an opportunity not only to climb pyramids, but to interact with the local shaman in understanding what the Maya were up to, their state of mind and ceremony, to connect with the sacred temples and pyramids that we'll

interact with. This is a chance to not only climb pyramids connect with them, but also to take in the spirit and the consciousness that is the genius of the Maya. If you'd like to join us, go to Earthancients dot com, forward slash Tours and you'll see all the details. To get details on the Guatemalo tour, send an email to me at Earth Ancients the number four the letter you at gmail dot com and join me for a private zoom conference with our hosts Lydia and Arturo Di Leong. Again.

The Guatemalo tour is December first to the twelfth, twenty twenty five. For more information, go to earth Agents dot com, forward slash Tours or send me an email earth Agents the number four the letter YOUU at gmail dot com for a discussion on just what we'll be doing. This tour is perfect for you.

watch a journey. It's just a really well written book. But there's so much more we want to talk about today. So Jonathan, welcome to Earth Ancients. Great to have you on the program.

him and I helped him press plants. But what most impressed me is the seeing nettle bush. You know, I brushed up against the steeing nettle and now they're they're pretty potent. The nettles, all nettles, some especially where then other's been in the Amazon. They got some metals that you really feel it when they get you. I was just amazed that a plant can sting you. That really she brought me in. That was my first like. And then I learned that the use of the nettles, and

later I'm living amongst the wallwood. I the what Arnie called the nettle the mother of all medicines. And it's because they use the nettle to transmit their energy to the younger generation. Like if a parent's come back from or a father comes back from a successful hunting trip, he'll grab the nettles and the kids will run off. He'll chase them down and he'll spank his the nettle on their on his child, and that asses that that success of the triumph of a good day onto their child.

So the mother of the medicine, because the waite Arnies use very few medicinal plants because they're a remote wilderness tribe and they don't have many illnesses, is really how to transmit ones like chi they call your invite energy to onto their children. So it's interesting. But yeah, and so ethnobotany, you know, at in essence is the study

of the relationship between people and plants. Ethnos, people and botany plants, and like you said, mentioned there's it's you know, ethnobotany is all the relate ways that we relate to plants. So later when I went on to study at the Humble State University.

in Equador. My parents had a Vegetarian Cultural Center in Ecuador when I was growing up, and there's a there's a book that spoke about them, called The Making of an un American, and there's a chapter in there where my mom she put a complaint to this supermarket where we used to go shopping, because they had the indigenous people would go to buy the dog meat, which was that they sold for dogs, which was actually quality beef, but just like you know, sides and pieces and or

the bones. But they wouldn't let them buy there. And so my mom put a complaint and they got the the store owners to realize that there was no reason why they couldn't buy there, so then they were allowed to buy the natives there. So she was written up in the book. So I come from a family of you know, like activists, I guess you could say, working to improve the quality of life for other people, for

the planet. And yeah, so that's about me. Is a fascinating way to you know, it's just led me on a lot of journeys ten years in the Amazon.

the indigenous people were working with this psychedelic So, I mean, it seems because I mean, the book has so much more depth to it than what I'm mentioning, but it seems like it's your helpful guide to psychedelics and the importance of having good intention to talk about that because so much of the book is really not only focused on ayahuasca. But I guess you call it yeah yahee as well yeah hey yeah he yeah yeah right.

It took a year leave of absence that turned into ten years, and because it was just too exciting, my parents supported me too on it, and I worked with an organization who, well, at first a prior student a Humboldt State who I'm still very close friends with, founded an organization in Equator that started a biological reserve called hatun Sascha the Big Forest. And so I went to volunteer on the creation of minicial plank Guard and I got in touch with them and they said they're starting,

they need some volunteers. So simultaneously there was another organization called the Reinforced Information Center that was organizing this project to begin the demarcation of the waward Any People's ancestr homelands. The what any people received one thing, it's about one third of their ancestral lands, which is a huge area. It was probably like a few million acres. And it was an oil company road that went down south to this colonization frontier town called Coca, and so it was

a canyon of colonization. So it was one hundred and thirty kilometers that we had to create the boundary lines of so that the colonists in this canyon of colonization wouldn't go into the wa Ani territory to make their adjudication. I'm irrelevant at ground level that was there's a chapter in the book that I talked someone about that the deep forest perspective of the Wildernie. And anyway, I worked a bunch of years in the Amazon before we could

say Ayahuasca became or yahi became popular. And then after nineteen ninety five the project with the wat Onnie came

to a conclusion. But some close friends of mine had been working with the Sieko Pie or the Sequoia, a province to the north of where the ones lived in the Equador in Amazon, and so I went to go collaborate there because I was always fascinated by the Sequoia because when I was a kid growing up in Ecuador, there was a postcard that you would see at a lot of the gift shops, and it was a face and he's a photo of like two elders, very happy, smiling,

just ribbing, a smile familiar to ear, with a feathered crown and flowers in their ears. I was like, these guys are amazing. The imagery stuck with me and said those are the so my I finally had the opportunity to go down there with some friends, and I went and then I became friends off the first trip with who became my maestro, Don Cesardio Piaguay. May his name be a blessing to all that here. He passed a year and a half ago at one hundred and twenty

amazing years of age. He had great age, one hundred and twenty, one hundred and twenty. He passed on Eastern Friday, and he was laid to rest on the Resurrection Sunday.

spiritual healer who he could help woman. He learned from the celestial Doan immortals that he would commune with a magic cure where he would enchant invocation over a cotton flower just recently opening up cotton flower, and then and then with that she would help women who weren't able to conceive to have children. That's one of his famous attributes, And there was a French woman who came who her husband had an eco lodge up river. They couldn't have children,

and she has like three children now thanks to hint too. Yeah, so he's a very effective filer on that level and then the other levels. Yeah, don't Socidia. So I we became friends, and he invited me back, and he was amazed that I had worked amongst the wilde any Indians. And he said, if I learned how to make the arrow poisons, And sure enough I had actually studied the making of the arrow poison among the waite Anie from a from a waite Antie by the name of Webbe.

Grandfather Wepe and Houstle lived a great age. Webbe in the last month of his life, he never laid down. He just sat up until and without eating for a whole month. He was also great age, well over one hundred and when he laid down, he was on the other side. And I visited Webbe and worked with him. Finally we met on the boundary line demarcation. But finally I went. I took a four day journey across the territory to his home and spent a month there. And

it was amazing. And when I was living with him, he would never lay down. I got to see that firsthand, like what they talk about in Chuangsu, the wise men of old, like thousands of years back, still in existence. He would never lay down. And I had read I was moved by the French anthropologist uh Levy Strauss's book Tropeque. I read that. So he said that to studying the natives, he wanted to be the first one up and the last one to sleep. So I tried that, and Web

immediately knew what I was up there. She would when I'd fall asleep, and he'd come and light my fire and wake up, and he's giggled and like retreating to his to his hammock, like Katia, you never to be the first one up or the last one to sleep here, buddy. Let that settle in for a while, you know. And he would literally never lay down. He never laid down the whole month that was there. So but I learned the water on the arrow poisoning technique from whip it,

and so I taught society. We went out to the forest in the sequor tert where we found the plants, and his wife made the clay pot so we made it, and then we went out hunting with the blowpipe he had, and sure enough we stuck a wild boar and the thing ran off like a little bit and dropped, and he was just like amazed. He couldn't believe it. They we're smoking meat. He's like that. Then that's like huge to the Sequoia is to be smoking a wild boar.

And then you start talking real story, you know. And then so he's like, what, we got to drink your head? And I was like sure, I'd love to, and so we started drinking yeah hey, And then I was blown to a million pieces and managed to pull myself back together.

I'm following Fred because I was thirteen. He was my mentor, like my father there and so I and I was like, so I snuck behind him, and then he got to the ceremony lodge and then I walked in and once the tradition is that you get to the ceremony lodge right before a ceremony, you can't leave. You have to stay there to the night. So they ended up giving me the drink because they asked me directly, you want I was like sure.

it was so hot. He said, then you can't because you're you have to fast all day when cooking the yeah and something, and then you have to like down there it was rough. You have to haul water from the slip creek up the slippery muddy bank.

up at three in the morning till sunrise. It was the only time I had to work without interruptions. And I wrote the book more, as I say, not the social responsibility to share the some of the information and the oral traditions. Because plants, they travel, but the oral tradition gets left behind, and that's the pinka. The pinta is like the spiritual cloud. That's why, like when the eye has harvested, you have to harvest it slowly and put it down. You can't throw it down so that

the pinta doesn't get disturbed. The energetic essence that like engulfs the vine and that's easy to disperse. And so that's the one thing is alkaloid soup. Another thing is like an ecstatically charged sacred beverage. That's that is owned by the celestial divine immortals and we're just just for a little bit we can experience what the reality is like.

And so that's the that's the purpose of the And so yeah, the hopefully of the book is to sort of kind of guide this ayahuasca or yahi bards that's floating the world over and guide it steered an auspicious directions so that the original intentions of this can be what prevails, which is as a medicine to heal all kinds of things. This can heal from physical elements like cancer to like CycL you know, to like you know,

emotional things to help people find their life path. When it's so the proper intentions of the yahey in yahuasca are are positive to help make the world a better place and community on the personal, community and planetary level. But of course, up one of the International Irbal Symposiums two years ago, I was invited to give a talk precisely this topic, and so I thought about it quite a bit, and I came up with the with the

title for the talk. It was called And there's a blog on my that we'll mention at the end of my website too, about this the delicate nature, right, the delicate nature of ayahuasca, and yeah, hey and so and so. I asked the question to a group of maybe fifty or sixty participants. I said, who here has seen has participated in yaousca ceremony? And almost everyone rose her hands. And I asked, how many people have seen the nyausca ceremony, go haywire, and like eighty percent of the you know

the people rose your hand. And I've heard one too many stories of people having you know, like getting knocked off course, kind of like Humpty dumpty fell off the wall, right, But who's there to put the peace?

So the proper intention when this is upheld properly, people leave the ceremony completely integrated, charge the room with positive energy, with a clear understanding what their life purposes and understanding of maybe what's been going on with them how to

improve their life. Some people radically change their life. They have the courage to maybe just drop what they were doing because they know it's not the correct thing for them to follow their highest path like to you know, like get out of the karmen into the dharma, so to say, you know, so they become spiritual too, like people when so the positive effects of it are are

is what your original intentions are. And so back to your question is the indigenous people For them, this is a sacred medicine that's used to for many reasons, but you know, basically to up you know, to merge with what they call like a celestial wind or an energy alignment that gives them the energy to live, you know, more joyously in the wilderness, because to live in the wilderness is not an easy thing, so you need energy

for that. So it gives them energy. And then it's also the school of life or their own basically Native indigenous university, because they learn the cosmology bursthand by experiencing the cosmology. So the yahe is used for on oral transmission of the oral traditions. And then it's completely taken out of context now of course in the modern times.

But since this is the Earth Ancients podcast, let me share before we go into modern day uses one of the oldest stories I know because I asked Don Delphine pay why may his memory be a blessing for all who knew him as well? One of the great traditional ethors who passed some years ago. Now she was the master of silence, because of course we relate ayahuasca ceremonies to you know, chanting and singing, and the sequoia have incredible songs. There's some they call them the he hen yeah.

And then another kind of song is the weenia kaye, which is a call and response between the participants in the ceremony. And the divine immortals, the weenia pay. So the fundamental purpose of yahe Sequoia drinking is to basically understand the truth of the weenia pie the divine immortals.

And Weenya is a beautiful word because weenia means like burgoning or crispy, ultra fluffy clean, or like it can be compared to like young young young flower just opening, or the butterfly that just comes out, or the down of the baby bird, the most ultra ultra clean, ultra fluffy clean like phenomena.

is more divine, so we become healed. That's why people who drink I understand their life purpose because the windia pine anything that is in touch with that celestial type of energy basically becomes a whole.

Miller Weisberger. Do they talk about the ancestors, the ancestral history of the plant usage and sacred plants and how far back it goes?

So before humanity existed on the planet, it's like long before there were any ancestors of the human us humans here Yan Yeah, or also known as Pina, the Creator, which was created the Earth, not the universe, but created the Earth and formed many animals and also created humanity, was experimenting with different types of beings and he brought to the earth the ni pie, and so Nigh is the dawn or the dusk. So these are the dawn or dusk immortals. And he brought them to the earth.

And Creator had two bundles. The story goes that one was a day bundle and the other was a night bundle. And so he would open the day bundle and out would come to day, and then you would close it and it would put the day away, and then you'd open the night bundle, and that would come to night and all the stars. So the Creator went on a walk and he he he he had in formed the night pie no one to mess with his bundles, you know,

not no one touched my bundles, he would say. And so he went on the walk, and then the night fell. So he knew one of the knight Pie was mischievous and went against his word and opened the night bundle. And so he started to break sticks along the trails that when the day came he would find his way back. But he came across the ceremony of yah hey that was occurring, because the Sequois say that yeahe. Many different legions of divine immortals have the yah For example, the Nypie.

These immortals have yeah he as well as like the Usseppo Pie, the sndianmmortals have yeah hey. The high Quinti Pai that are inside the Earth in the holographic Universe universal vision of the Earth is inside is like a heaven. So inside the Earth there's alternate dimensions where these high Quintipai exists, and those are the they have yeahey as well. So in this case, the Nightpie were in the ceremony,

Yeah hey, Concho Pie. The Psykata psychicata in worlds have yeahey as well, and so one other there was a master sitting on the bench blowing on the yah and one of the drinkers went up and said, Master, I wanted in the future, when the people exist on the planet, they're going to damage, They're going to ruin this beautiful paradise. I want to have the powers to stop that from happening. And so he gave them. He blew on the yahey so that that person, that Knightpie, would have those powers.

And then the Knight Pie went and said Master, in the future, I want to just live simply the want, and so I'm blowing the powers for me to live simple, and so the Master blew on the powers from to live simply. Another one went and said, Master, I want to have the powers to heal with the singing nettle. Give me. And so so he blew on the powers so that he could heal with singing metal. When the day came and the Creator came back and he brought

all the knight Pie together, he scolded them. He said, you all, someone amongst you touched the day and night bundles, which I had said not to touch. And so he took a bundle in each hand and he clapped his hands, Creator ah, and the cloud clap came out in all directions. In that moment, the day and the night became the same amount of time. He unified the day of the night on the ear, so it's twelve hours and twelve hours, and the Knypie he sent them back to their realm.

But many of them transformed into different animals right when that clap happened, mostly when flying back to the other to their immortal abode, and some turned into wild boarers, others turned into into pirates. And the Master that that was blowing the ahe he transformed into the Mikaka, which is the Amazonian cupra it's a giant venomous snake.

I have quite a bit of experience with them. When you live in the jungle, you come across them, and the venomous snakes are not aggressive unless they're molested, and so when you're poison it's easier for them to hunt. So that the one who wanted to live simply was transformed into the non venomous snake, and then the one who wanted to learn how to heal with the thing that was transformed to the giant caterpillar.

nomadic swid and agriculturalists. There were loin cloths, and they encountered this group of divine immortals that were striped multicolored tunics, and they had these bushes cane bushes were the hum and out of them would come flying from the tips

beautifully redesceded bluebirds. And they taught to Sekoyas how to prepare the yaha for the sunrise renewal to vomit at three in the morning, and then how to prepare yahi water we drink a bunch of that, and then how to do the graduation yeah what they call yah the yah or oh yeah, that has the consistency of honey, very thick. They taught them everything how to prepare. But sure enough, some of the Sekois this obeyed some of the hierarch some of the basically guidelines they laid out,

and so they disappeared when they vanished. But the Sequoias in that encounter completely transformed their culture. Now they start to wear tunics and cross necklaces and feathered crowns, and they learn many many wisdoms from them, how to recuperate or nature, and so indigenous mythology and cosmology has to be interpreted. And that's part of my task is to find the modern day interpretation of ancient truths without diluting

the essence of this right. And so the fact that to the multicolored people, God's multicolored people, this shows it's I guess we could say it's similar to the eging the eaching. It's like it could have been right, it could have been all in Chinese calligraphy that only you know, people that understand that could understand. Well, it's no, it was in a very simple, broken and whole line terminology.

So it's definitely the eaching is a universal tool. So you know, many Daoist you know, scholars have gone through great efforts seeing the value and seeing the oneness of humanity to you know, make lucid modern day renderings like the New Masternee. Watching these versions of each thing that I've studied extensively has helped me a lot for all my projects. But so the Yaha tradition as well. It's it's indeed one of the great world heritage traditions that's

here to help humanity. And what's important is that it's used correctly. It's like the sword, a double edged sword, you know, of the master's sort in the novice's hand. You know, like you know, there's so good can come from it as well as harm. So the important thing is the guidelines. That's what the book is intended to share, that guide this in the auspicious direction.

we cultivate ourselves. If one person saves themselves, you know, then that that's going to be you know, step in the right directory for all all life, all humanity. So these tools help us to align with spiritual reality. What's phenomenal too, is that no matter what religious you know, belief someone might have the yah hey or ayahuasca, it doesn't go against that. It's not a religion or a

culture to spiritual reality. It helps any person wherever they are, with whatever ideology or whatever belief their purpose, find that clarify, oxygenate their their place in the mosaic of life. And it just has to be used correctly. For example, there's

a lot of medications now that are contradicative. People on certain medications, if they were to take this, they could be greatly harmed different kinds of like and you know, there's more and more medications different like antidepressants basically because the you know, it's a certain.

And the Sequoias they go back all the time. This is, you know, because they want to stay aligned and keep the energy because it's easy to drift and go out of balance. So, but so there's everything from in between from you know, going back regularly to drinking once and letting that one time and you know, like basically affect

the rest of your life. There's a I wanted to hear something about the you know, how vast the ways this is used and as an example of how I was because it always used to improve the person's life. In the Colombian coastal region of the Choko, amongst the Afro Colombians, there black Colombians on the coast of very remote wilderness areas where they live on the Pacific coast

of Columbias and natives. They're natives, they're blacks. But even in Equador, indigenous Afro Equadors have been declared they're very different than they're more like Africans because these people up into the nineteen thirties, it was only there was African tongues still being spoken in coastal Ecuador from escaped slaves from these slave boats, and so these wilderness, tropical wildness areas were very much like Equatorial Africa, and so it's

really amazing. So and then they merged with the indigenous peoples, right, a lot of beautiful culture have come out of that marimba. And but they learned the use of ayahuasca. But I learned a very strange use. So these these Afro Colombians and would drink what they call the pinde, they drink

the syauasca beverage. And then they'd sit down, squatting down with their head between their knees, and the master would with a vine of the ayahuasca vine would walk around, you know, swinging this violin there slowly like this in the air. And then at some point in the night, like at randomly, he just like swipe it down onto the back of one of the participants, random like just she's in the transit of the medicine too. And in that moment they'd get up and scream, and they're screaming.

They'd see in their vision where on the river was the gold deposits, and they'd use it to find gold. Wow, and it actually worked, well that's how they use it. Yeah, they would work, they'd find the gold amazed. So that's a strange, very strange use. But basically the ihusca offers a soccer right in that case is like getting whip by the master mastroom and then so like in other cases, you know, it always so that the minimal cases, that's why the people fast. The sequoia is fast all day.

I'm kind of amazed how in Lahuasca traditions, I've seen people that don't fast, but the Sequoias they fast all day because they you know, they they're gonna put something so holy in their body that they wanted to be the only thing about the experiences if you're had breakfast, sunch, and dinner, that's the body is absorbing all the nutritients from all those foods. Right.

had to only access was by boat. After an hour boat drive, we had the land up on the beach and now we had we built up with the Ocean Forest Eco Lodge and it's our family business. We have a beautiful visitor center right on the beach run by Rainforest and at the potential garden. The Sequoia elders have visited many times back in the day and we hold our annual Rainforest Medicine Council gathering retreats there and then

so I had also mentioned the Living Bridges Foundation. So the founder of the Living Bridges is a woman named Donna Ronald's a very dear friend of mine who worked many years in Peru with the Ketto natives with water projects, and so she was very inspired by the work of Doune an Equador with High Indian natives to as well with different water projects that we've done there to help

imput the life of Purua. Indigenous families were in a combative with the people had to go elect basically forty an hour by donkey to get water from the creeks, and now they have, you know, water in their communities. We did this whole engineering, really amazing projects. So that joined me onto the Living Bridges Foundations many years ago, and then I'm a board member of the foundation and

the Donna. So some in two thousand and seven, it was she contacted me and said that she's been organizing these talks for these Taoist masters in the in the Bay Area and they had asked her about Costadika, a site called the Kanye Island because they heard there's these petro spheres there and if they if she knew anybody, and and because they wanted to visit. So of course she contacted me because I have the lodge. So she's like, do you know what what what lodge? Can we say?

That's the closest we can get to the Kanye Island. I was like, Donald, not just because they're great friends and I want to hear, but actually our lodge is the closest you can get to the Kanye Islands.

And he years ago came out to visit us. We became friends and stayed at our lodge like eight years, just lived with us out there, and so he was living with us, and so I was really excited, so I told him because they wanted so I said, I have an indigenous elders. This will be awesome because I think it'd be really important for the meeting of the minds, you know, because they wanted to visit these spears, and they said, No Memo knows the stories of all these fears.

So they were really excited. I have a blog on an article about this is called c d the ninth dimensional goddess that protects the Eosa Peninsula. And so we met No Memo. We met with the Taoist masters. They came. We went to different sites near Palmarrto where the ancient petro spheres are found. And I'm going to get to Limoria in a bit, because the sphears have to do with Moo and Limoriah and they don't have Before we get into this topic specifically, I haven't heard any connection

with ayahuascar Yeahe and Limoria or MoU. But I think the consciousness that these energetic realities, that the that the Yahey opens up was they were you know, the Limurians were for sure tapped into that same and I don't think they even needed it because they were so pure.

I think their holy plant was the loaded Well there's information about that, yeah, and so anyway, so the article that I wrote, which is fascinating and it goes the Taoist masters in their meditations, we're seeing the Burunka cosmology because after they came out of these sacred sites we'd meditated, they shared these encounters with this goddess that told them all the stuff, and the memo was like that's that's our stories, and like you're seeing our stories. So I

wrote about that in this article. When you went off to the Kanyu Island, the Kanyu Island is a very special place. It's an island that's off the coast right in front of our lodge, and there's still a few spheres there. It was an indigenous burial site of pre Columbian times and it's considered to be a magnetic vortex compasses go around in circle. Is one of the spots that's most hit by lightning, and then the other location in Central America.

Kanye Island. The uh, the gravity, the magnetic feels very high, is what.

And the Gold Section of meso America, like triple gold eagles, like pound one pound of gold and like three gold eagles embracing each other. Jaguar head made a solid gold and jade Moeller's. They were very, very advanced, and these were navigators, these ancient pre Columbia Corso people's were jade

Carver's and they were navigators and they visited. That's when you are Zapp talk talks about these spheares of and they used as navigational sight lines, you know for these natives who at the right time, they were so skilled that the patterns and they knew when they could just drift across as happy, you know, like ego tourists. You know, it's completely sustainably being blown over.

burned the whole earth. There was a time of apocalypse like before the Great flood, and then from the ashes, and there are more tear drops of the gods grew with the first cowtry that gave birth out of the pod of the CACW pod to the first woman who

gave birth to the first man. But INDI just myths have to be interpreted, right, so I have some ideas of what that means, what that could be indicating basically what kind of interpret well, what can we do interpret from that, because you know, it seems pretty highly unlikely that a person would you know, be born out of a woman, you know, would be born out of a

cow pod. I look at it as more that Cacao had a very profound impact on transforming culture, you know, and and these fears basically the alignment was like splattered by heaven like of course it have to be that way, like you know, it's like God, you know, throwing down some speckles onto the planet and the align and so

they will served for so many multiple purposes. One as you were as that pretty much prob and Ericsson, you know, they they lay out all the arguments of how they were used to go to all the Verst sacred sites, and I can just imagine these old times, you know, these boss arrassed very deep keels going to popping into ceremonial life, you know, just going wow, look like like we go to festivals today and just bugging out and then just you know, vanishing back across the ocean to

their stomping grounds. But what if these fears were used for navigation, which is transportation, you know, from one place to the next. And maybe it's it's here's another idea. This is even less blow our minds a bit more ready. So the Taoist masters when they were there, Master Tiang Ying, who has the Berlin Institute of Chiang Chiang, he is called it. It's a Chigung institute. I think it's called She's a Chigung teacher in Berlin, Master Chiang Yin and

her grandmaster Leed Tyeung. They Tiangong is the name of their group, and they they're very in in connected with the Limorian realities. And they saw that this CD, this ninth dimensional goddess explained to them that a thousand years ago that the people along those coasts, these navigator cultures that were jade karbers, they could they spent a whole year carving with their like no tools at all other than jay dust and a bosaw or a jade carving to hang on her neck. That thousands of years later

is like the first day was made listening immaculate. And so these people were so pure that she won basically appeared to them and said that I'm going to transform you into the fourth dimension of the water realm, because there's going to come a time when if you don't do it now, you won't be able to do it later. So she transformed all these people into the fourth dimension

of the water reality. And so the memo was shocked because he said, there's an indigenous legend that a thousand years ago all the natives along that land committed collective suicide. Because he's part of the Brunka. He's Brunka. They migrated from Columbia up into Costainica. They found the series where they were, and but there was the land was uninhabited.

There was rumors of these people that once live there, but they all and so and so he we discussed this like and he even thought about like she thought, and the memo was is a very intellectual and most of the Native elders that are versed in the oral tradition are highly intellectual analytical because these their mythologies and legends have are so long, and they have so many aspects of them, and there's so much meaning to it all.

That's their science. They're indigenous science. And he said five hundred years ago, would makes sense that you know, you hear about the first arrival of the conquistad Ortis and killing everyone in their weight. They're like they were so pure and they they were not afraid of death, and

so you could think how they'd take the leap. A whole culture would commit collective suicide rather than like Saul in the Bible, who like fucked ell On is his spear, you know, instead of getting caught, they'd collect commit undertake

such a crazy act. But a thousand years ago, when this is like the Christine Paradise five hundred years ago, before this quote unquote discovery of the Americas, and so it made us perfect sense that like and you know, don't know, was like that, I like, that's it, that's it. He was like a moment of enlightening. The CD, this

ninth dimensional goddess. She transformed the cultures into the water reality where they still exist today as divide immortals in the alternate dimension inside the water and get this the masters, the Daoist master said that CD did this accomplish this through the use of the spheres, the granite spheres, so like the spheres had uses that regular people or not regular, but like advanced navigators with you know, very skilled knowledge of the earth climatic patterns could use to you know,

travel across the ocean. And then CDA goddess she was able to use these fears to like save a whole culture into an alternate dimension inside the water?

stone work, but that they were gone. So but so the dow Masters they basically you know, received this informasion from this ninth dimensional goddess that it wasn't that they collective committed suicide, they were transformed into an alternate dimension and then dow Masters that they went in there in the in the article I speak about that that they

that was masters to their cultivation. They achieved as well as Shawnman masters extra your ability to be able to send part of their soul into immortal realms and see what it's like in there. That's not a few regular mortals can do. Masters can.

next level. There was like a lock of like archaic arcastic records, you know, kind of information, right, was coming off.

you know, like a pigment of my imagination. I could never find this, but it was they were doing, settling up cameras and doing something like you're mentioning, is if I recall infra red or or imagery of like, you know, resident imageries of these spheres from like I think it was infrared photographs he was, and then he played with the photos a bit, you know, to like kind of make the bring out contrasts and and so. But yeah, there was much more than this fears coming off of them.

on the Kanye Island for a long time. After this seeking of Limoria.

transoceanic transportation. Who knows what else on Earth could come of these if their studies born over time. But the Sequoia they don't know about the spheres. There there is an indigenous legend and the Amazon with Amasanga Supai, which is the spirit of nature where nature and gold deposits are found, and these are seen in Costainika. And there's the orbs. So orbs just mentioned of orbs being seen,

I can talk. I can check quite a bit about that because in our area in Cosaka, we have seen orbs. But when the Sequoias were at the lodge and they drank the medicine, they corroborated that these divine and mortals were there because this was before the Doois came and the Sequoyas, who are you know, bless your hearts, they're on the other side. Now, these elders they had they can see visions that regular people we can't see because they're advanced masters from the whole life of drinking yea

and living in the wildernes. So they called them the nyan ye sie. Yeah, hoopo pai so Nyanya is the creator ci Ya Hoopo is this high. Cia is the salty high on c Cia is the salty ocean, the salty lake, and the Hoopo is from the center. So anything that has the word hoopo, it comes from the

center of creation. So there's the divine immortals that come from the center of the creation of the Great Salty Lake, and they had visions to them and they said that the coast all all off the beach where our Eco lodges is these fourth dimensional water temples in there, and they were encountering them. And then when the Dowers came, they went in there and their visions and they have these energy swings. They don't need to eat any food. They look like they're about forty years old, but they're

a thousand years old. The Organs don't perish, and so the Sequoias were really happy because in the Amazon they have to deal with a lot of heavy stuff, and so drinking the medicine in their territory oftentimes their sorcery.

They have to set up ar khanas, which takes a lot of effort to set up, like protection seals around and so it's a whole Here on Theiosa, they felt like it was like an open reality and they were able to Like one of the Sequoi elders came and when he drank and he said he saw the entire spiritual cosmology. He saw this boat come across the water and mermaids came out, and all the divine beings came down.

It was just he had the most one of the most glorious visions that he's never seen in his own country. They were amazed by the fears. I brought the Sekoy elders to see the sphears and and they they remembered the legend of Pina. So the creator who I mentioned earlier in yan Ya Pina who brought and dismissed the Knypie when he merged the two bundles and made the same amount of time for day and night, he was born. And there's a Taoist legend too, they called pang Kaw

that was born from a stone drum. The Sequoya also say Pina was born from a stone drum. So that immediately was the first thing that came to mind in the Sequoya saw these fears Pina, that the drum were out came the creator from.

in the morning and it inspires conversation. So we we did drink the Guayusa with them quite a bit. And yeah, so the lodge is amazing in them. But we have our our plant, we have we have our ceremonies there the Rainforest Medicine Council gatherings that we hold once twice a year. The next one is at the lodge in January and twenty twenty six and then in Ecuador in this November to Galta's Wilderness. Yeah, to a really nice camp. About the pet about the orbs? Have you heard about that?

What's your take on those orbs?

feeling on them? Are they Are they in abundance where you live?

gain energy and wisdom to heal. And but in Costadica they're quite common and I heard about him and I finally I heard about him first from the memo or bunka elder, and he's heard some amazing stories.

go on a bicycle ride down the highway. So he was telling me he went out of the bike ride down the highway and this orb came up the river and it came out over and it came out like about three hundred meters in front of him and was overy so obviously he stopped his bike and he was just standing on the middle of the road, just in the middle, like three in the morning, and then it

dropped down. He's told me with explicit detail. It dropped straight down like it had weight, and when it hit the road, it sparked up and he sparks went up like four meters. In the sparks was a giant black person that ran right there into the rock. And it turned out that right when the orb dropped it was a large almost like a door shaped face like thirty you know, that went up quite like one hundred feet or thirty meters high a rock, and the being went just into the rock like if it was you know,

a doorway. It just disappeared into the rock.

the whales singing. It's like an amphithea or the whales. They be hundreds of one hundred miles. The way you can hear them singing, the way their sound travels through the water is just incredible.

the prestige. That's what's so wonderful. The Daoist master said, the Osa Peninsula has to be protect it. It's like a celestial island.

like trend it's like sacred geometry. But these tiagunas are like portals, so they're the way the divine supertle, you know, higher dimensional energies enter into this three D reality where we are temporarily. They come through the orbs or through the tuna, the portals passageways.

the sacred plant medicines that are cultivated there. Amazing. Hey, I want to get into Cacau here regarding an article you wrote, but before I jump into that, on these giants, these Limorian giants, you're saying that they were transformed into a different dimension and they're still on the island. But what do we know about the giants? Is there anything? Is there any local mythology or lore regarding their existence?

not as noble. So it's it's a field of study that I haven't had the opportunity yet to go down that far.

So they they had. CD saved these giants that were living after Lemoria sank on the Kanye Island by transforming them into a protected as she did with the coastal people's fourth dimensional water temples, like inside the water, scuba divers can't see them because there was you know, scuba divers is going to go down there and see you know, white tip ree sharks and you know, like parrotfish. But on the fourth dimentioned they're inside the water, these giants.

So it's interesting that that cave into being as you know, related with the spears.

So that's that makes some of course, if it's the food of the gods, and you know is some and uh, like you mentioned, you know the legend of questal Quatto bringing questal Cuado was the god of culture who transformed culture and about the early people so many skills, literally taught them civilization right and brought cacao. But uh, according to the genetics by the name of Omar Cornell, he

studied the old cacao varieties. He says that their co cow strains come from the Amazon originally and the oldest known are archeological remnants of cacau use utensils come from Ecuador on on the eastern slopes of the Andes, and the mon archaeological cycle left Florida and a culture known as the Mayo chin Chipe and five five hundred year old beautiful red jasper arakati which is the small two

con bowls and then clay bowls too. All the clay vessels that we used for pouring cacao are holding you know, jug with two spouts merging into one spout. So it's again like the using cacao is the phenomenon to bring two sides together spirit matter, you know, oppose your opposite, the merging of opposites. So cacao, like all cigaret places kind of we could say, used to help us approach

a non dual the non dual reality. And that's always that the has been the stry for, you know, for you know, first nation peoples is to stay close always to the non dual reality while we're living in the you know, dual reality, and to hold the truth of non duality in the realms bounded by duality, you know, the indigenous culture and traditions. You can say all our you know, technologies to help us sustain that one act

there our entire life. They can view it as like, for example, like when you're born, it's like diving into a river and you're swimming underwater, holding your breath until you pop out to the other side. Is when in this world we die boom. They were back in the spirit room. And like they say, like the physical awakened reality is like a shadow of the spirit world. Master and he says the proportion of the physical realms to the spiritual realms could be looked at as less than

one to four quadrillion. So we live on this planet for purpose to you know, to like you know, maybe work something out so that we can learn experience the wake in reality before you go back to a higher reality. So these cacao bowls that have two spots going into one, which I find fascinating, I interpret that as definitely cacao because all of them are like that was used for.

powder that and there's many recipes. But what's amazing is that the cacaw is brought to Mexico most likely by intercultural exchange, because there was you know, I haven't intercultural exchange in pre Columbian times. That's shown because you know, like for example, pasta rica you find oh mec jade,

and many foods were brought up, such as cacao. And so what amazes me is how profound and the impact the cow has been on Central American cultures, Like it's even in the Popol Vu and the you know, the creation of the hero twins when they find the outsmart every possible trap of the gods of death. Everyone day out smart, but they know that they count outsmart the last one. So they saw sacrifice themselves, throw themselves into the fire, and then are the gods and death are furious.

They also defang the gods of death seriously that hold bout and made them less harmful. They're thrown into the river. They swim off as fish. That's why the Mayan asked the Omec and then is and then Maya. The Maya stand out at the old Mac and their language and

culture of the word cacao comes from Omek. First the glyph is of of like a man looking up or like the hero at the hero twins with fishkills and cacao means two fish, and it's like so they say that cow gives the energy like fish to swim through the rapids of life, the rapids of the water. But and then out comes the cacao tree is born from this, but it's originally underneath and like the the underworlds like

a garden that nobody can look at. It's like a cow tree that spat on the the daughter of the god of Death's hand when she disobeyed his advice that don't go anyone to my garden. Of course, the daughter of the god of death goes and sees it. Her hand gets spot on because the first her parents, the first hero two were sacrifice immediately because they were too noble, they were too simple. They didn't And then so their heads are hung on this tree, which is like a

cow tree. It'd split the blue light onto her head. And there's a whole song in the popol vu with the copal, you know, that blinds the guy so she can escape. And then those are born, and then they become ballplayers that make so much noise, and again this time they're more savvy. But so Cacao is such a mystic tree. And then you know and and like you know, as mentioning the Brunca legend of Cacao being born from the tudor ups of God to be, you know, the

outcoming of fish humanity. That to me, that says it totally transformed culture. There's may I pottery showing Chuck, the god of agriculture, exchanging Cacao, and the thunder God exchanging Cacau with east Shell, the godess of fertility and medicine. Right, so you know it could be the cacao or the

phenomena of cacau. Like what cacao does to you know, how delates us is the phenomena that pertains the spiritual realms because alkaloids, you know, can be found on many other plants, but co cow's unique mixture, you know, theo bruma and what that does in the bodies like opening. That's why like modern day like they say cacao ceremony, what theobromine is like affects the center like the hard chakra.

one handed. You know, it does both good and also harm.

there's cocw blights. So there's a lot of So it's hard to find organic basically cacao because a lot of it is if you beginning, I think cow is brought to Africa. There's a lot of deforestations, there's childhood slavery.

You know, Adam and eve Ache from the Tree of Knowledge that were given were booted out of the garden of Eden, but the Tree of Life was protected by divine hours. I think we're the cultural beams were to protect this tree, so that the knowledge of the Tree

of life. But what does that mean? So if the sages that are able to perceive the wisdom, the knowledge of the Tree of life have aligned themselves with celestial virtues so that the divine the guardians, the celestial gardens that are protecting the Tree of life allowed them to receive this wisdom. And so I think cacao is one of those trees because if people see her as the representative of the precious element water. Without water, we'd all

be dead. It's the most precious element, way more valuable than gold or any or anything else that's considered highly valuable in this time. And so Cacao she comes from the most the wettest part of the planet. So consequently she's a representative, the ambassador for water. We're just not seeing her that way yet. And for diversity, there's I study permaculture. There's a there's like an interconnecting cycle in permaculture that speaks of diversity, engenders fertility and fertility and

genders stability and stability in gender's diversity. It's like a triangle, like a circle that's like in perpetual unison. So basically, without diversity, we can't have fertility nor stability, diversity and genders stability stability, and gender's fertility and fertility and gender's diversity. So it's so Picao is the representative of the most

of the peak pinnacle of planetary botanical diversity. So I think if we can see her as that and aligned with heavily virtues, Cacao can become part of helping improve the quality of life of people, both where she it's grown and all the world over, both in health her health. The cacao is not just a superfood, is also a health tonic. People who consume rock cocau daily will be much healthier and it can heal a lot of ailments if it's taken like you know, like rock cow in

the morning, like a remedy every day. The Natives have three types of cacao. According to Bruca, there's a bitter cacaw that's used as medicine for healing all ailments. The sickle to drink bitter cacao every morning on an empty stomach and they'll heal whatever they got going on, and it could be from high level antioxidants and the other amazing things that hasn't it's as well, there was this sweet, a neutral cacao that wasn't too sweet nor too bitter

for daily use as food. And then the sweet cocow was for ceremonies, for weddings and for festivals.

to open their hearts more. With continual use, people are stuck holding on to grudges, so the cacciumony gives us that extra nudge. I think it's a modern day thing. It might have been, you know. Cacao has always been used ceramon instantation times as a form of community with divine energy with the gods, basically the name theobroma's food of the gods, but when used in the modern day setting.

I've participated in ca causumeries that are very enriching and healing, where you know, people sit together and drink cocao and usually you know, talk about something that perturbs you, something that's holding you back in your heart, you know, so you talk about it, you get it off your chest. People cry together, they laugh together, people feel more relieved. So that can be very healing. So it's it's centered

around like heartwarming. Opportunity to unpack rudge is maybe you know, like they're say in Hawaii, forgive and pardon, to forgiveness and pardoning ourselves and others, we can come to like, you know, peace on things.

We have, you know, quite a few projects going. Just maintained the lodge, like we got the ocean rows and we had a very strong RADI season last year to wash out our bridge. We were working on a thin budget, so we're raising funds to build a new bridge out to the lodge. We have a Perma Culture teaching center that's still a fledged league and we're trying to you eventually get out. We have half the materials ready to build attle volunteer teaching center. We support projects in Equador.

So we can't receive donations through the Living Bridges Foundation for our work. I'd love to we have that, you know, it's basically that I don't know how we could share that with people, but.

is the Oceanforest Ecolodge. That's Oceanforest dot org. And we have a blog there too, and we have a visitor center and that's in that's in Coasta Eca on the Osa Peninsula. It's surrounded by wildlife. It's a nature sanctuary. We have moved from to twenty three visiting guests. This January twenty twenty six, we have our classic all Time Rainforest Medicine Council gatherings. Those are posted on my book's website under the link that's his gatherings. It's Rainforest Medicine

dot net and you can read about the book. There's videos about the treatises. Yeah hey, and you'll see the retreats are posted there. Both Ecuador, we go out to the Knapoca let Us Wilderness this November twenty first and twenty ninth. I would love for some of your listeners to join us and be wonderful. And also there are Rainforce Medicine Council gathering in Costaika which would be the seventeenth of January to the twenty ninth of January in

twenty twenty six. Fantastic, Yes, So, Oceanforest dot org is the lodge, Rainforestmedicine dot net is the book and the retreats, the medicine retreats and then the Living Bridges Foundation dot org to donate to our work if you'd like to tax exempt status for your donation, yep.

So it's more for people who like to experience the elements really close up. Because you think, we have our beautiful cabins right on the beach, and we have a beautiful ceremony lodge up on the hill of beautiful facility. That's just really really wonderful.

Fun to have him on the program, and a lot that I didn't expect in that interview that was made it memorable. It was fun to have him on the program. Hey, I want to mention I am really excited about our new Megalithic Egypt tour coming up April twenty eighth through May tenth. We're all gonna meet in Cairo. The itinerary is such that most of the sites we go to we'll have private visits, and this is where you need to have a expert tour guide with us who can

open doors. And what makes us fun is that we get out, we get to touch, we get this walk among these amazing sites, and the concluding event is a walk inside the Great Kufu Pyramid. I've been talking about this forever and this tour is special because it's everywhere we go to is unique special. We get to climb in pyramids, we get to climb on temples and sacred sites.

It's fun to be a part of that tour. I'm excited about it because we're all will almost half full right now and I want to get as many people on this tour as possible. For the full itinerary and details go to Earth Ancients dot com. Four Slash Tours. You'll see the full itinerary. If you have any questions whatsoever, send me an email. Send it to the ancients the number four of the letter you at gmail dot com

and I'll get right back to you. All of our tours are reasonably priced and we even have payment plans if you're a little tight. So come out join us for twenty twenty six, the seventh annual Grant Egyptian Tour April twenty eighth through May tenth. Come on and see us. All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest today, Jonathan Miller Weisberger, coming to us from Costa Rica. As always, the team of Guil Tour,

Mark Foster and Faeiya in Pakistan. You guys rock all right, take care if you will, and we will talk to you next time.