I love Christmas. I love the decorations, quiet times, getting you know later and I have time to reminisce a little bit. I hope you're doing well, Hide Cliff, your host of birthday, and it is Christmas time, and my best to you and your family. And this is the end of twenty twenty four a whole. It really went quick.
If something is special, it's sacred. Christmas is a sacred time, and it's time to reminisce about the year that's ending, considered the year that's coming up, and all the good things always the family gathering, friends and family, and some of us become I mean, I'm included in this introspective thinking about what happened in the year and all the good, all the challenging, the traumatic, the sad. Life moves on, friends and family move on, or you discover new friends
and family. So whatever it is, I hope you are thinking about the holidays, and it is a time for you to celebrate. So I wish you a happy holiday, be it Christmas, Hanukkah, or whatever you celebrate in your home. Today's a special edition of Earth Ancients. We are delving into the question of these drones that have been found primarily on the east coast New Jersey, Maryland, parts of Vermont, North and South Carolina, all the way down to as far as Florida. And we really have not been getting
a sufficient explanation. And this is surprising. You know, when you have a flying vehicle flying over military installations over populated areas, usually the FAA or the Pentagon or someone in the local government speaks up and says, hey, this is what's going on. Don't be worried, don't you know,
don't get upset about it. But in the case of these drones, we haven't heard a great deal of anything, and that leads to all kinds of speculation and rumors everything from there are ships off the coasts sending these drones up to These are UAPs, otherwise known as UFOs, and they are here to make you aware of their presence. Well, we're not hearing much from even the muffon groups, the
UFO organizations that track UFO activity around the world. And so today i'mresenting a panel discussion with a few experts to give us their points of view and their reference as to what the hell is going on? What are these drones all about? And as I've been reading and
kind of preparing for this group, this panel discussion. I have run across some of the most strange and anomalous and wild explanations for these drones that you know, are scan the possibilities everything from the typical prop driven drones that we can purchase it, you know, at any Best Buy or on Amazon for a few hundred dollars, all the way up to these military grade drones that are as big as a bus and have been reported in
the skies above New Jersey. Now, just a few days ago, I saw an article where apparently a drone had crashed into a freeway and they showed the body of this drone which was cylindrical. The base body was cylindrical, surrounded by propellers. This thing was huge. It must have weighed several hundred pounds. And we don't know if it was battery driven or if it was it had propane or
gasoline or whatever. It was the damnedest looking thing, and it came out of the sky and according to witnesses, just smashed into the divider, the cement divider on a highway. And these reports are becoming stranger and stranger. There are airline pilots one in Oregon who reported seeing a drone which it turned out to be a UAP because it flew up around twenty thousand feet and tailed him and then blinked out. In other words, the lights went out and he lost it. He didn't even see it on
his radar anymore. So that has all the trimmings of a UAP and identified aerial phenomenon. Now, remember is the rebranding of the classic u fo's Unidentified Flying objects, and so the new terminology is Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon u A P. And when they speak of UAPs, we're talking about exotic, highly advanced, and in many cases extraterrestrial propulsion systems. And it gets dimensional too. We have vehicles that are run
by gravitational fields. We have translucent drones, which in other words, are orbs you can see through them, which which which is also curious because are they manned drones? Are they remote drones driven by somebody in another planet, another location? We don't know. So I got tired of this and I was like, well, let's let's pull some of our experts together, some old, some new, and get their perspective on just what is going on. And I don't want
to frighten anybody. But there are a group of people who believe these are off world and that means that they are alien craft, alien design, alien physics. And whenever we talk about alien physics, we're talking about vehicles that can defy our gravity. They can link in, blink out, they can pass through portals in the sky, they can shadow planes, helicopters, even people have been shadowed by some of these drones. So we want to get a sense of what's going on, and we'll do that today with
a panel discussion of experts. So today's special edition of Earth Ancients is Drones, u APS and First Contact. And my guests are Greg Gons, doctor Michael Clawson, and doctor Mark Carlato. This is gonna be a good one today. This is a special edition of Earth Ancients that we are producing, and it is one that I have a personal interest in a numbers of different levels anomalies, u A, P, s UFOs, alien interactions, government discretion, disclosure and so forth.
And mid November of this year and right up to now, there have been waves of drones hovering over New Jersey at night. There's been a number of other sightings up and down the East coast. Some of these are very recognizable drones. Others are displaying unusual pulsion systems, movements, lights, levels of design that are much more advanced that we are used to, and we can't get any information from the government. These are in many cases what we think
of typical drones with flashing lights, hovering propeller sounds. But when they are reported to the authorities that be that Pentagon, the government of whatever state, there are no reactions, no definitions of any of this, and it has become a huge problem. The FAA is giving light responses, the Pentagon is disavowing most of these as unknown to them. And today we're going to discuss this in detail with my panelic group here. My first guest is Greg Goins. Greg is from New Jersey.
He's a New Jersey resident who has been outspoken for the lack of government transparency in the face of this mass drone sighting. He has actually traveled to Washington, DC and spoken to various congressional groups and individuals to discuss this issue and to promote a UAP Disclosure Act that's been around for a few months, and we'll learn more
about that. Greg's also appeared on Fox News to discuss this UAP situation, and he recently wrote a op ed article for the Philadelphia inquir which I read, which was excellent, and we'll also ask him a little bit about that. My next guest is doctor Michael Glaussan. He is the co host of the podcast The Anonymalous Review. He's a professor of biomedical ethics at the College of Charleston in
South Carolina. He's also a member of the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies and he's written on UAPs and UFO, The UFO Question, and a number of publications. My final guest is returning doctor Mark Carlotto Marcus an aerospace engineer with over forty years of satellite imaging, remote sensing, and image processing field work. He has written over one hundred technical papers and is the author of the Martian Enigmas, The Sidonia Controversy and Beyond and Atlantis. We've had Mark
on a couple of different times. Gentlemen, Welcome to Earth ANXIO. Is great to have you on the program.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, thanks, Greg.
I want to start with you, describe, if you will, what has happened and what is the settings in numbers that we see in New Jersey. Talk a little bit about your neighbors and perhaps what's going on there.
Sure, I mean, at this point, everybody's seeing something, you know, whether or not they're actual drones or airplanes. But but yeah, a lot of people are seeing some very unusual craft in the sky. Almost every day I get a friend or a neighbor texting me videos. Many of them are aeroplanes, but some of them really you can't tell what they are, you know. One friend just texted me today a picture of fourteen to sixteen objects that were just lights and
groupings above his house, and it was very odd. So there's a lot of different things people are seeing. People have seen suv sized drones over their homes, and it's really the talk of the town. You know, everywhere you go. People are talking about it. Right now, is at the bank today, and they're really talking about it. We were getting into it. So there's a lot of confusion among everybody wanting answers, and there's a lot of a little
bit of fear too. I had a buddy that saw something recently and he said, I'm going to Dominican Republic, booked a ticket and got out of the here. So it's kind of the atmosphere that we're dealing with in New Jersey.
Is it a problem that the local authorities can't define what they what you guys are seeing, or is it more of the fact that nobody can answer any questions.
I mean, they definitely can't define, you know, what they're seeing. Again, some of it, the majority of it you're going to get, are minist identifications right now. You know, airplanes that people see, or typical drones or something else. But the objects that fall outside of that, they can't really define it. You know, a police helicopter got above one of these six foot drones and as soon as they got above it, the drone turned off their lights and completely were undetectable by
the police State Police chopter. So you know, they're having a difficult time identifying what these items actually are. All they see are lights sometimes that go away, And yeah, it's a big confusion. The federal government's not providing any answers either.
And when you went to visit your congressmen in Washington and confronted him or his staff, what was the reaction.
Sure, So this was a couple of months ago that I did this to support the UAP Disclosure Act which was making its way through the House and Senate, and mostly the staff did not know about the UAP Disclosure Act or UAP in general. There was a lot of lack of information, lack of knowledge on their end. So there were some that did and the few that didn't know about it, you know, took it very seriously and we're appreciative of it. But yeah, it wasn't taken seriously before.
I have a feeling now it's being taken more seriously in Congress.
And one last thought on that is when you hear that the Pentagon is not talking at all about this and rather just kind of giving some weak excuse for not reporting that, what does that make you feel?
Yeah, the Pentagon. I have a problem with the Pentagon right now, you know, that's who my My big issue is the Pentagon knows what these are. The Department of Defense knows what's happening. They have the satellites, they have the technology, they have the eight hundred and fifty billion dollar budget next year. They know, and they're not taking responsibility for informing not just the public, but even converse.
You know, the different legislators are asking to be informed, asking for these briefings and they're not getting any information in them, So the Pentagon's holding whatever information they have, and it's very frustrating because you know, there was a secure skiff briefing recent and a congress person came out and said they still don't know what they were from
Langley a year ago. You know, they're not getting answers on that, and so any information is just being held within the Department of Defense, and you know, it's time that it comes out.
That's weird. Mark, I'm curious, you've been studying this phenomenon. Do we have a sense of the technology in place? Are these typical prop drones or are we seeing all types of propulsion systems driving these things?
You know, I think the drones are sort of the latest manifestation of the phenomenon. I mean, my interest is in the anatomy of the phenomenon, which I you know, I think has been occurring for not just tens of years, but hundreds of perhaps thousands of years. So I mean, I think drones is sort of like the technology to Jore. But you know, in the seventies it was these enormous triangular craft.
People were saying.
In the fifties it was it was saucerss and it's been really a continuous evolution of the phenomenon and why they're drones now.
Uh, it's it's sort of.
Made their investigation even more challenging because it's very similar to technology that we have, and like you know, Greg, you were saying, it's kind of hard to sort out, you know, the more mundane explanations the hobbyists, the the standard government uh, you know, devices and vehicles from those that are more extraordinary and the ones that are more extraordinary sound like UAP. And as far as the propulsion, it's a big question mark.
No one knows.
Uh, they're they're able to execute maneuvers and you know pull g forces that would crush any kind of physical instrumentality, let alone.
A human oct.
You know, people have used the terms, you know, I have characterized them as as defying the laws of physics, and uh, you know, a lot of the strange phenomenon your uh you know, I've heard reports of drones switching off or these these crash switching off drones and you know, vehicles in pursuit similar to h you know, in the sixties, reports of when there were sightings there would be power.
Failures, you know.
So I think my my perspective on this is not so much because I'm gonna I'm learning a lot from you guys, but it's sort of like the broad brush, how does this fit into a more evolving perhaps historical.
Context with you know, in the age, with in humanity.
In the eighteen hundreds and these mystery airships too. You know, it's kind of to go with the times throughout history, you know, these sightings, so like whatever time you're in, you kind of have a sighting similar to what you're knowledgeable about now. So right now it's drones because that's what we all will. But I agree, I think that you know, UAP have evolved to kind of.
When it goes back, you know, it goes back to the Bible, the wheels of Ezekiel.
Uh.
There are all sorts of unusual descriptions in the Bible which were you know, attempts to describe what was being observed with the technology of the time. And uh, you know, I think I think some you know, like you know, some like von Danigan uh attributed a lot of the stuff to extraterrestrials and that's you know, that's one hypothesis.
But Uh, you know, I think that's that's problematic given kind of where we are now with SETI, and you know, we haven't really detected any signs of light outside of the Earth, at least not in terms of physical you know, signatures that we emit. So there are extraterrestrials out there, why can't we find them?
Why can't we detect them?
And and so it's yeah, it's it's puzzling. I'm just kind of curious. Greg, you you think that the government knows?
Why do you say that? I'm just kind of curious.
Sure, No, that's a good question. And let me clarify. I don't necessarily think they know everything. Like they might not know where these uap originate from, but they have satellite imagery. I'm sure they see them going into the ocean, you know, and then where do they go after that? I don't know if the government knows that, but I know they have a lot more information than their sharing,
you know, they just have the technology for it. Again, when it was Langley, they had a NASA reconnaissance shuttle hovering over it trying to take images. But even if they didn't get information, like say, the NASA reconnaissance Shuttle couldn't identify these objects. That's information, you know, that's information I want to know. So they definitely have a lot more information, even if it's the lack of information that tells us something about the technology, tells us something about
the origin. So, uh, there's that's That's what I meant by that. There's definitely information that they're not sharing.
Yeah, Mark on that note, why don't we why are we not hearing from NASA? We have heard nothing from NASA on any of these things.
Well, you know, I think it was a year or so ago they had a big NASA meeting, a conference on on U A P and you know, they give the number of presentations by f A A and and and D O D and and NASA and uh. NASA's approach to the problems seems to be they want to study it, you know, as they want to study it as a scientific problem. They want calibrated data sets, they want they want all sorts of information that is just not you know, practical. It's sort of like beggars can be choosing as you.
Got to you gotta take what you get.
And I don't know if you got If you remember this conference, it was being streamed live and a lot of people the reactions were really kind of interesting. People are like they couldn't believe what NASA was saying. It's certainly not an agile approach to the problem. I think the agile approach is you've got to be able to use all this information and use you know, smart techniques, maybe use AI to do some information fusion and try to find where.
The gaps are.
But yeah, I don't think NASA doesn't know. People are looking to the government, to NASA to try to explain this, and I don't think they know the answer. That's that's the reason for the silence.
Strange, Michael, Can we speculate on why this is happening now?
Yeah?
Absolutely. One thing that I think is helpful when we start speculating is to make a distinction between a few different kinds of phenomena. So one thing that's going on now are these drones settings over in your Jersey And we might ask why has that gotten in the news when lots of other sightings of strange phenomenon. This guy don't get attraction, And I think there's a pretty simple
explanation for it. A New Jersey congressman went on Fox and said that it was an Iranian mothership that was launching drones from off the coast of America, which is just not true. That just can't be true. I mean, Iran is to busy getting it's you know, ass destroyed in Syria right now, it's and their technological capabilities just aren't there. It's just not the case. That's why it
got picked up. So probably there's lots and lots of cities in the world where there are pretty frequent drone sightings, and we might speculate why is that the case. Maybe it's aliens that I guess is possible, but maybe a more prosaic explanation that might fit the data is that there are a lot of startups that are testing drone software and drone designs for things like deliver uber eats,
and they're really paltry regulations about drone operations. I mean, it's not clear how you apply for a certificate to test experimental drone designs and urban environments, for instance, And if you were running a startup, you might think, well, let's just not apply for such a certificate and just test our drones over the city and see what happens.
And then you have a lot of people who are confused, and it doesn't really go anywhere until the Congressman says something really stupid and then it gets on the news. That's one I think that could explain most of the drones sightings that people see. And I mean, drone is kind of a fuzzy term in the first place, but that doesn't explain everything. I haven't heard anything so far about the New Jersey flat that tells me that these
objects have really extraordinary technological capabilities. Maybe they do. I mean, there's lots of people calling in, and I haven't heard all the calls, but we might distinguish those from lots of other sightings of strange objects callum drones or call them whatever, that do exhibit really bizarre flight characteristics. So they don't have, you know, surfaces that give them lyft,
they don't have any sort of identifiable propulsion system. They can do things like Mark said, They can accelerate in a way that should just like annihilate whatever's inside of it. They can go between air and water. We know that there are versions of drones that can do this trans medium thing from low earth orbit to air to water and back out again without stopping or changing their propulsion method.
Those are truly bizarre, and calling them drones all just kind of muddies the water because we don't even have a consistent definition that FAA doesn't have a consistent definition of what a drone is. They don't even really use it in their language. They just say in the cases where we do to talk about drones, we're relying on Dictionary common definitions of it they use like remote aerial vehicles or something. So well, if we want to speculate on why this is happening now, we need to be
clear about what is the thing that we're asking. Why are there lots of drones? There's lots of drones and lots of companies and people operating them, and not a lot of good rules about who can and when, and those rules are going to eventually catch up to our technology. But we're way better at making technology than we are at regulating it, so the new technology is always like
several steps ahead of our regulations. But that doesn't mean I mean, so I'm sort of probably sounding like Mick West right now, like it's all just you know, people mistaking planes and people getting weirded out about actual consumer drones. But that's not the only set of phenomenon that are going on. There really are objects that exhibit utterly bizarre and incomprehensible behavior that we don't even know how to begin speculating on the engineering that's behind them. And it's
probably not helpful to call them drones. But it's probably actually less than helpful because if you use the term drone, then it's easy to kind of dismiss it and say, well, you're just seeing something that somebody brought off of him on for two hundred bucks and your iPhone camera didn't do a good job of taking a picture of it or whatever. Now you're freaked out aliens, which I actually don't think that any of these things are aliens, but I think they're really, really weird.
Greg, I've read somewhere that over five thousand people have reported sightings. Is this I mean, I've seen pictures of drone groups, like hundreds of drones and grouping creating patterns and things like that. Is it the spectrum of sightings where you see one, you see a few, and then you see a whole bunch or what is the typical sighting?
Yeah, I mean the typical sighting is an airplane. But there are sightings of groups of drones. You know, they range from a few to eight to ten. Say, there's not too many above ten. Like I said, my buddy sent me a picture earlier today that I had like fourteen or sixteen in there. That is very odd. But that's typically where it is, between the four and eight range,
i'd say. And to Michael's point, you know, New Jersey is also the most populous state, so you have a lot more people in a very dense area, So there's a lot more people looking up at the sky and seeing things. So there's gonna be more people, you know, reporting in this small area, so it might seem amplified. There's definitely some mass hysteria going on, there's no question about that. But I also agree that there are objects
up there that defy explanation, you know. And John Kozlowski from ARROW, the older Main Anomaly Resolution Office, just brought that up in hearing last month at the same time this drone incursion was going on, when he said that, you know, ARROW is not just investigating birds or balloons or drones. They're investigating truly anomalous objects that defy any explanation.
HM, We're got to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my panel discussion on drones, UAPs and first contact. We'll be right back.
Drive alone in de sembery.
That plame a favorite song see us no fake, not.
For call hovning for the holiday, calling days until your day.
I'll be wading in this aldia.
Dear Christmas, Christmas, Christmas Lime know you may supper, but to get.
The today's program is drones, UAPs and first contact. And I have a special group of experts from around the United States and we're learning exactly what they believe is happening with these sightings on the East coast of America. Mark, why would the Pentagon be so quiet on something like this.
Wouldn't it be to their advantage to at least speculate in a more grounded, educated view as to this not being a threat to citizens, but also perhaps being a contractor military contractor testing drones or I mean, we've heard nothing of any substance from the Pentagon.
You know, people are concerned about credibility of sources, and if sources start speculating, then there's no credibility. You know, everything becomes that it's perial and there's no news is no, there's no fact base, and I think it's to the would be to the government's detriment to to to speculate. I think honestly it would be better than to say they don't know, rather than to make up x you know,
you know, crazy explanations or or just be silent. I think I think they should simply say they don't know. But you know, take the historical perspective again, that this has been this is this is an ongoing phenomenon. It's not it's not new. You know, back back in the sixties, uh, and in the fifties and uh, you know it really started in the early forties.
Has always been a fraction of craft.
That could not be identified, you know, fact that it was swamp gas the planet venus. Uh, you know, this, that and the other thing. Now you have more uh, you know, more rational kinds of you know, explanations or false alarms, hobby drones and so forth. I mean, those are totally believable, but there's always been that traction that
have been unexplainable. And I think the government should say, hey, look, this has been ongoing and it probably is not a threat to us because it's been happening for such a long period of time, and so this is sort of like the latest manifestation, the latest version of it, and we should we should really try to study it and be open minded and not not be fearful, but be And I think they need to be honest, because otherwise I don't think at least any any good outcomes.
What does this tell us, though? Would you say that it tells us that they, as you say, are they don't know what's going on. They don't know, so that that, I mean, that says pretty amazing to me when you think this governmental agency that it's tens of billions of dollars every year, has nothing to say of any concrete nature.
Well, they might be able to say things that are of a concrete nature. Not to jump in and cut Mark off, but they might be able to say things about what they've observed that make them conclude that they don't know. And I agree with Mark. I think the government probably doesn't know what these really anomalous ones are that are doing things that we can't attribute to prosaic means.
But saying what they know that baffling to them runs the risk of giving away their sources and methods sort of intelligence, like what sort of sensors they use to make these observations. And I think it runs another strategic risk, like we might want the government to be transparent with us and say we just don't know what these things are.
But one of the incentives that's bearing upon them is that the second the CIA or the Department of Intelligence says we don't know what these things are, Russia or North Korea is going to say, well, yeah, we've got some stuff that America doesn't know about, which probably is not really true, but they're gonna love that opportunity to create a sense of imminent sort of superiority over US. And that's a huge risk for just national security, the perception national security at least.
Yeah, I mean, I'd hate to be a politician, you're exactly, You're right, Michael. And and I think maybe the situation now is maybe as maybe maybe it's just managed. Maybe it's being managed the best it can.
You know, the.
Government's doing the best they can, and which isn't good enough really for some of us, but it could be a lot worse. And you know, like they say, and this too, you know this too, shall pass.
It'll come and go.
And we'll be again wondering what it was, but it'll be forgotten until until it happens maybe in another decade, you know, it was again. These things are happen in ways, and I really think we need to take a historical perspective on it.
I'm curious to think what you guys put your opinion of like whistleblowers like David Rush and lou of Alizondo and people like Carl Nell who have come out and said that the government has all of this information about non human intelligence presence on Earth. You know, do you guys take that with a grain of salt? Do you
give any credence to it? Because according to those people, you know, the government knows exactly, you know, what we're dealing with, or at least they can surmise that we're dealing with the non human intelligence based on the technology. So I'm just curious if you guys you know what your position is on that.
Well, I don't know, No, I mean, they're they're they're they're they're they're they're they're really smart. They're they're well educated, they're totally plugged in.
They know what's going on, and I don't.
I would not doubt anything they say. I think this is also kind of a heterogeneous phenomenon. You know, we're talking about just the distribution of of what's seen.
There's all kinds of stuff and.
There could be all there could be all sorts of things going on. Uh, reality is is is probably much more complicated and more nuanced and uh, you know then than we.
Could possibly imagine.
And so who knows, But I really think there is a class of of of of phenomenon that is I want to I want to say I'm most timeless. It's almost always been with us and you know, my my slands. Maybe a little bit towards towards more.
I don't know.
Uh, you know, I'm not I'm not limiting our our understanding. I don't think we should view this as purely a physical phenomenon.
You know.
It's sort of like if you're, if you're, if you're you know, if your world is is a is a desktop and there's some sort of three D phenomenon that's interacting with that. You can't possibly know that reality it's beyond you, and I I feel that this is an ext you know. Jacques Ballet, Ballet talked about, you know, uh, extra dimensional sort of phenomenon. It goes beyond our physics
and our understanding. But you know, I think we have to leave the door open for for for that we have to realize that our science and our physics is limited. And so you know, I think we just have to be a little bit open minded and maybe and maybe patient about it. And and you know, again, I don't know, So I'm the short answers.
I don't.
Yeah, Michael, I want to look at this from a philosophical point of view.
Can I answer? Can I answer Grege's questions ahead? Because I do have an answer, and it's a it's a totally legitimate question, like what to say about these whistleblowers or whatever. So I just spent a weekend at Yale with Danny Sheen and a few other people. Danny is the is the lawyer for louel is Ondo and for David Grush, And yeah, we got to talk a lot
about this. But my my perspective, the way I think about it, is that in the way I think others should think about it, obviously, is that it seems inconceivable that nothing that they're the whistleblowers are saying it's true, and it seems equally conceivable that there's no misinformation or mistake in it. And I don't know where to draw the lines in those but I know this that if the government has found a bunch of crashed craft that have beings in them or tech in them, the obvious
conclusion is that, well, we've just found like aliens or something. Right, But it seems to me that anything that's powerful enough and technologically advanced enough to create those things that we've found could create them just as decoys or just as misleading objects too. And we might not know what's on the other side of the phenomena either way. So all we can really know is whatever the truth is, where we don't know how to draw that line about what's
true or not in the whistleblower testimony. Whatever the truth actually is, that's all we have. We don't know what to infer on the basis of it. It might just be created simply for the sake of misleadings.
Yeah, But on that note, Michael, is somebody trying to tell us something, Oh, you mean in the government, I don't know. I just if this is off world And as Mark speculates, this is a historic kind of a regular occurrence every decade. It's a perhaps a symptom of what Earth is going through politically, mentally, whatever social media maybe has opened us. I've always said that the military shouldn't be asking the priests about the reaction of the Americans.
They should be asking the people who are ahead of social media. For all the ins and outs and all the functions of the world, be it macro or macros, levels is always revealed. So what is what is happening here? What can you what do you speculate on that thought?
Yeah, I'll speculate. I think that well, first of all, when you ask the question, is somebody trying to tell us something that seems to be like gesturing at the question of whether the things we observe, the really strange things we observe, are things that we're just like kind of passively observing, as if like there's an expedition that somebody else is running and we just happened to see them flying around in the sky while they were doing it,
or is it an intentional sort of signal. If we take the whole history of phenomena and like try to sort out the best evidence that we can the most reliable accounts. It does seem like at least some aspect of this phenomena has the ability to choose how it appears right. And if that's the case, then it suggests to me that at least a lot, if not all, of the sightings that we do have, they could have just cloaked themselves or whatever. Why did we Why do
we see it at this point? Or if they can fly as fast as they seem, they could fly so fast that you would never catch them with your eye, you know. So I think it is reasonable to say that whenever we make these observations of truly strange phenomena, it was in some way intended as a kind of message we're kind of signed, or at least they didn't
care whatever's behind it, that we saw it. And then you have to speculate why, I don't know that there seem to be patterns of UAP above nuclear sites that seems to be really really consistent since we started being
able to harness nuclear energy. If that's the case, and if it's intended, why, I mean pretty easy to draw the conclusion that they're saying, you know, we see you in when we're advanced than you or something might be that the world's in such turmoil now that after an election, they start rising out of the ocean, trying to remind us that the country that just divides itself so much isn't really the one that's you know, on top of
the world or something. I mean that that is pure speculation, but I think that's the realm that these phenomena push us into. It's really hard to just stay in the like nuts and bolts technology realm, where all you ask is, well, how do they how do they stay aloft for so long? Like what kind of batteries do they have on them?
Which are good questions, but there I think this phenomenon it always pushes you outside the realms of what you consider like normal, respectable discourse and into this realm of kind of like religious, spiritual political speculation. That's just where we always land.
But yeah, it's funny that you say that, because I've always felt that the first contact is either being cloaked by the military or they're they're feeling our off world. Brother, whoever they may be, may not feel we're ready for this kind of content, you know, as the Brookies Institute document, which was written in nineteen sixty has to say, is that what we'd kill ourselves, we jump out of buildings, religion would fail, institutions would fall apart, and maybe that's
We're beyond that now. Maybe it's time to get these little sightings, be it large or small. And I'm wondering, Greg, is that something that you ever consider when your writing, is the possibilities that maybe we are seeing the real thing, the real first contact.
I mean, I think we've been seeing first contact for thousands of years, possibly, you know, these things have been going on to both third points for millennia likely, But are they recognized, you know, are they being recognized by the mass population? And they haven't been recognized yet, and they are very vague and they're there, but you can't really get a good idea of what they are. So that does seem to be an intentional thing, you know, an intentional form of communitytion.
You know.
I kind of look at as we're in this ecosphere where we, you know, are on a very very thin piece of reality, and there's a lot going on around us that we don't perceive, you know. I mean, if you're think about even the light spectrum we see in such a short you know, fandwidth of the light spectrum. But then you have dark matter and dark energy, which is ninety five percent of the universe supposedly. You know,
we have no idea what's going on there. So are these you know, UAP from dark energy, dark mass sources, something in between, something below. I'm not sure. I just know that our perception is very limited, and there's definitely the possibility that these objects, these crafts come from outside of our ability to perceive them. They're just like touching our reality a little bit.
Man.
I'll tell you, whenever I go on a podcast, I'm always like really nervous that I'm gonna find myself with a group of just crazy people and I'm gonna have to like train wreck the whole discussion just to prevent it from going on. But I, like every one of you, like everything.
We've already been through the acid test of insanity on the whole topic.
Well, we're not We're not done yet, because because Cliff usually pushes me at the end and I start saying things.
Yeah, we're not done by judgment, maybe we're all the same kind of crazy.
I'm okay with that, but but Michael, let me let me pick I just want to respond to something you said, you know, is what is it bad.
To push it towards the spiritual and the psychology and all that. I feel that in some sense, and you make a really good point about how they're allowing us in a sense.
To observe them.
They could be totally they could be there and totally hidden all the time. Could it be that, you know, we think that we're in control, we own all this, and maybe the reality is they're the landlord and they're here and they're checking up on things they don't you know. You know, they appear around military bases where they're exercises.
There's also a long term interest in in the health of our planet in terms of you know, how we're utilizing it and you know, pollution and so forth.
It could be that they're just they just want, you know, to keep the property in you know, in good repair.
They're the sort of the you know.
The the uh the Vedix would sort of uh sort of a liken them to uh sort of like the Avatar's addition new you know, vis News the preserver, right, Brahma creates Shiva destroys, but Vish News.
Preserves and uh, you know, maybe someone needs to be around and take care of this because maybe we're not capable.
Mm hmm.
I like it.
I don't think that it's a bad thing to push into the realm of sort of spiritual manners or whatever. I think, in fact, that one of the problems humanity, at least Western humanity, has dug itself into, is that we've drawn these really artificial boundaries between disciplines like science is one thing, in religion is another, in histories and other and philosophies another, and tried to chop up reality
into the disciplinary borders. But that doesn't work, and it makes it impossible to ask certain questions that humanity has taken really seriously for like thousands and thousands of years and now are just like nowhere in the landscape of serious discourse, like spiritual questions and religious questions. And I think that's a problem.
Amen, Amen, no question about it. We've lost that, you know, what's natural to us. You know that once we got out of the cave and looked up at the sky and like the spiritual connection to our universe. We definitely don't have that no Western culture right now, and it's kind of sad, you know, Shamanism, you know, and the plant medicine and just the real world of natural around us, and it's just kind of go on from our society's
I think we'll get back to it. I kind of feel like we are getting back to a little bit, and maybe that's part of this phenomenon as well. You know, maybe there's some connection there, but I know there's pushing to kind of recapture that. It's sad because there's so much of a loss of you know, the religious institutions. I'm not a big fan of. I was born, I was raising a Catholic family, I went to Catholic school, and I you know, that kind of got me to
realize that things aren't what people tell you. You have to question everything, you know, but there is this spirituality that you know, religions bring out, and that Christianity even has, you know, in a connection with each other that we're losing because we're ignoring the other aspects of it, you know. So I think getting rid of the institutionalized religions and dogmatic practices and kind of looking at the bigger picture and connecting it to other sciences would be useful.
I agree, and I think that that one of the consequences of this view that we're all kind of espousing is something that you Greg hinted at, which is that it may be that first contact is behind us, or maybe that there was never a moment that we weren't in contact with this thing. We've just sort of developed in the last few hundred years into this collective mindset where we think that most of reality, it just doesn't exist at all. It's just you know, the whole spiritual
world or whatever. It's just nonsense.
Yeah, but I think beyond and I hear what you're saying, Michael, But for me, it's like land your ships, get out and say something. This clandescent hiding in the dark behind trees, out in the in clouds, turning your invisibility cloak on, turning it off. That's gotten out of control. It's time for the next phase of a first contact. We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my
team of panelists discussing drones, UAPs and first contact. We'll be right back with you. Today's panel of experts is discussing drones, UAPs and the possibility of first contact with an alien race. We're getting a sense of their expertise in how they define the current wave of drones that are found in a number of states on the East coast of America. That's how I feel. I've been studying the phenomenon for thirty years, and it seems like they're
very advanced. And I'm just generalizing. It could be many, many, many different groups, but we are not getting enough interaction for my taste. I think we're getting just one point zero versions of hey, here we are, goodbye, take a look.
I feel the frustration. I think though, that that frustration arises out of a belief, a sort of half conscious belief that we really, ultimately do know what it is, and they're just like not coming out and saying the thing, like we think they have bodies, they're from a surface of another planet somewhere else. They got technology faster than we did or sooner than we did, and then they came over here and another just like zooming around our skies and being coy about it, right, and why don't
they just come out and say it it? Maybe though that the truth is something that just cannot be said, or that like defeats the purpose like that could say it to your face, but you wouldn't hear it. There's this line from Wittgenstein where he says, if a lion
could speak, we couldn't understand him. It may be like that that the most that they can say is hanging out in the clouds and annoying you and destabilizing your sense of reality until we get hit some gooestalt shift and we realize, oh, maybe the point is that I don't know, and then it's some unsayable.
Thing or maybe or maybe we can understand the lion, and what the lion says we can't possibly accept. And and that might be something like we're not in control of the situation. This is not our game. Like you want you want, you want them to just sort of come out from behind the bushes. Well it's it's it's their game, if you will. We're not in control. And
that may be the lesson We don't. We think we're the latest, and we think the greatest on this planet, but we just may be the most recent, and there may have been countless generations and ages and civilizations and who knows, you know, Like like Greg mentioned, where this very thin a slice of the universe that we understand, we can perceive, we can understand, we can deal with. There's so much more and and maybe the messages we're not in control.
Thing it's simple. I don't think there's like a simple I don't think we can compare ourselves to them and look at it as apples and apples, like we will come out of a craft and we'll like introduce ourselves. But I just don't think the answer is that simple. To Mike's point, you know, we don't know what they're capable of. We don't really know where they reside, you know, in the universe and our reality, in our oceans, and
they might not be compatible with us. We might only be able to see like a shadow of their what we're viewing may even be a shadow, even if it's a technical logical shadow, you know that has mass and material, it might not be the actual reality that they experience. So I just think that whatever the answer is is not that simple, and I wish it was. I would love for it to happen, but I don't expect it to occur right now.
Ultimately, I think you're right. Yeah, Hey, Greg, talk a little bit about these drones that have been cited over military installations in New Jersey. What is a what are we what are we seeing there?
Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, there's not many details released on what those are other than their anomalist to drones. You know, I haven't seen anything to say if they're the large ones or the small ones. I just know that Piccadilly and Earl Stations both experienced swarms of them over their bases in the last few weeks. I think Piccadilly had like eleven. So you know, when that happens, there's a lot of questions about what are
these drones? Where they come from? You know, with them flying over the bases, you kind of makes you think, first off, they're probably not military. If our own military is trying to figure out what they are, you know, like I said about Langley, if they're sending out shuttles, reconnaissance shuttles and moving F twenty two fighter jets, I doubt there are military as you know, I mean, they're they're pretty bad with communication, but I doubt that it's them.
And there's geo fencing up, so we can't be a hobbyist drone you know, that would get returned to the sender. They're not allowed to go over these sensitive sites. So it really does make you question, well, what is it flying over these sensitive facilities? I mean, could it be an advisarial drones could be, but it's been happening forever and if we haven't solved that problem yet, that's an issue. So yeah, again, like everything in this topic, it leaves you with more questions than answers.
The thing that's odd about that though, is I FAA has specific guidelines for flying your drone, and if a drone is found in a military installation, that's breaking so many rules, if not laws.
What the hell?
I mean, this needs to be brought up and you know, discussed more. I don't understand the quiet nature of these official agencies. Have you followed up on FAA, Greg Gun?
Yeah, again, most drones you can't even fly over like in order. My understanding, I'm not a drone expert, but from my understanding is you can't fly over these restricted airspaces. The drone has a you know, there's a geo fencing and there's the GPS chip and it'll prevent the drone from crossing that boundary. So you know, it's not hobbyist drones and it's not. You know, people people are obviously trying to get around the FAA regulations. You know, they're
not following them on purpose. If if that's what's occurring, very strange.
I can say a little bit about that from some of the people at SCU that I've talked to who do military history or who in the intelligence world. This is like a whole separate category of drone phenomena. These military base some military airspace incursions. They're totally different from what people are seeing over cities and just civic space. There's lots of them, sometimes like uncountably many of them. They can stay in flight for a really long time.
They seem to have they seem to be immune to some of the not exactly weapons, but anti drone technology use lasers and other sorts of energy to confuse them or just get them to shut down. They don't seem to be affected by that. They seem to have software or some sort of control mechanism that allows them to
behave and swarm behavior that we don't quite understand. And then we don't know where they come from, because when we try to send a plane to follow them back to wherever they go, they can either stay in the air longer than air planes can fuel themselves, or they accelerate so fast that we can't follow them out that's not obvious drones, and it really in those cases, I think there's been several hundred of these incursions that have
been well documented. In those cases, every option is really bad.
Either it's some adversary that we have that has some really intense gary technology they've developed that we don't have, and not just one, but like three or four different technological advancements that we haven't made, and that's that's no good, especially since they seem to be using it to like intentionally spoof our airspace over military bases, or it's one branch of the government like going rogue and terrorizing another branch,
which would be really disastrous for America because the civilian control of the military is like one of the founding principles that keeps America from turning into a military, you know, just a military state dictatorship. So if our military is going rogue against other branches are just acting without oversight, then that it's pretty disastrous. Or tailing in sports something something we don't have a category for, which is kind of ry highly.
One of the things that I've found is really fascinating is the various sizes and shapes of these so called drones of the And this is the problem because of artificial intelligence, people can manipulate photographs on different levels. I mean, if you go do a search right now for drones, you'll get a million different variations. But the other day I saw a picture of a drone apparently that had crashed in a freeway. And this thing looked like a small bus. The body was long elongated. I didn't see
the propellers. I didn't know what the propulsion system was, but it was a monster. And I don't know who's putting out drones of that size with propellers, but I would think our military. And this comes to my next question.
A number of UFO groups are speculating that this is a black ops program that's gone a right ye, and I'm wondering, Mark, I guess if that was the case, the Pentagon wouldn't want to say a thing, because that's they're people who have got gone rogue and are flying these without permission, or they're testing them in highly populated areas, which would probably not be wise. You would typically want to test a new aircraft in a desert area that is not populated.
Yeah, you know so, so I think this also appears.
I think the answer to that also really, you know, sort of touches down on the whole, you know, the tic TAC phenomenon from which was sort of like the previous version of this, right, but you're you know, they're being cited over sensitive areas, the military exercises, they're exhibiting
all these word behaviors. I just I, you know, I wanted to ask a question or because I think the answer sort of there relates to you know, it's to your point about you know, the government the overlap between I just wonder what the overlap between the tic TACs and the drones are.
Did the is it is?
I haven't followed the you know, the sightings of the logs of you know, what's been observed aware at what period of time, but you know, the tic TACs were the it was that way for a while and then now we have this is there overlap between the two? Do you sense that there one transition into another that is sort of another again a more recent manifestation of that phenomenon, because that was also you know, very problematic and raised a lot of these same questions that that
Flip's asking. I just wonder, you know, from you see the theme.
Yeah, I think you see the same thing over time. You see the tic TACs now, even you see them twenty years ago, you see him hundreds of years ago. You know, I think you see the rag in the green or red and blue flashing lights. We call them drones now, but they had those, you know also decades, if not centuries ago, there are reports of these flashing lights red in the and blue. So I think I
think it's always been there. But you know, now you your mind, because you are familiar with drone technology, it goes to drones. But I think that, uh, that there's been an overlap and uh, I think it's it's been going on like that for for a long time. I mean, look at them. Look at the Nuremberg Celestial Battle. Are you familiar with that from the fifteenth Yeah, you know, they have a depiction of things that people talk about today.
You know, in World War two, the Foo fighters, you know, the orbs, and there were sightings of these rods, these giant rods that had four or five orbs in them. You know, that's exactly what the Nuremberg, you know, photo depicts. So I think there's a consistency with all these sightings throughout time, and maybe now people are a little bit more geared towards drones and what things look like drones because it's a technology of today.
Yeah, so you know, just just to circle back and ask your question clip, you know, the you know, the black ops sort of that that's that's kind of like a modern thing now that we talk about, But you know, one hundred years ago, what was what would the equivalent of you know, that have been, you know, would there.
Have been such a thing?
Certainly the technology to support that didn't exist. So it's sort of like this is why I'm saying that.
I think when you look.
At it historically, certain things just fall out as being just implausible.
Anymore of that.
I mean, you're left with more questions than answers, unfortunately, but I think it can rule out like you know, row governments and foreign adversaries and you know, black ops programs because they've been going on for so long.
Yeah, I just wonder if we're at a state in our evolution, especially a young country like the United States, where we are changing to the point now where we're not reporting things as regularly as we would perhaps in the last ten years. And I don't know if it's a lacks of protocol, but there seems to be a
huge void in trying to define these things. And this makes me think more and more that this is off world tech that is not able to be easily explained, or they are moving more towards wanting to explain off world types of tech, but letting people kind of come up with their own conclusions, which is a problem because people go off the deep end and if you don't have some form of foundation, either a scientist, a military person, or a governmental representative saying hey, take care, you're okay,
this is nothing to worry about. We're kind of getting that, but not really what you say to that, Michael.
Yeah, I don't think they know what to follow that up with. I mean, the narrative for a really long time from the US government at least, was these things either aren't real, or they're like, we've got some military craft that we're testing, so don't worry about that, or their balloons or whatever. When they knew that wasn't the case. I mean, genuinely, this is just a manner of like documented fact that since the forties, the US government has known there are things that.
Are moving around in our.
Airspace in ways that we can't explain, but they don't seem to be a threat. And that's really the only question that the US military is like officially tasked with in this case is like determining. It's just doing threat assessment and if we don't think it's a threat, it's a potential threat. We don't think it's an actual threat because it seems like it could have done as harm if it wanted to, and it hasn't. So that's their only question. And you do want, like you do want
a government office that just does that. That's like our job isn't to speculate about anything other than that. We just see if we're safe. And once they've done that analysis, they're good. But they just don't know what else to say. I think if they did have applausible even if it was a plausible lie and they knew it was a lie, that that's what we'd be hearing. Silence in this case
is pretty conspicuous. It's sort of deafening, and I think that we can interpret that silence as them not being able to come up with any kind of plausible, comforting narrative to give us.
I mean, Greg, doesn't this feel like off the wall, Twilight Zone kind of reaction? It's like, what the hell? Yeah, you would You would think somebody would step up and go, this is what we think, don't worry about it. You know, we haven't had any crashes into any towers in New York or anything like that. You know, these aren't foreign adversaries. It's just seems so unusual to me.
Yeah, it seems like they know that it's not foreign adversary, like they've said, and they also know that it's something a novelists, you know, and not specifically about the drones in New Jersey, but in general, you know, the UAPs that we're dealing with. And honestly, I kind of see it as they created this construct of withholding information and denying you know, UAPs that now when you deal with possibly an actual drone situation, they don't know what to do.
It's like, we're talking about UAPs here, but are we handling the same way we handle the drones?
You know.
I feel like they've created this own bed for themselves, and you know, I kind of hope that certain Congress, people like Senator jillibrandt is using that to their advantage to force some type of a more transparency from them, you know, kind of playing to this concern with not knowing what these drones are and hopefully from trying to get the information and create laws like they're trying to pass now about taking out drones and about getting more information,
hopefully that leads over into the UAP issue and we'll get more information there.
The point of what Greg just said is that the problem that he said, you know, we've made our own bed of sort of history of being silent, the government's history of being silent. Part of that is baked into the structure of the government, Like there is no official office, no person whose job it is to tell the American we do not know what this is, so it's never going to get done. We'd have to like create an office for the community public communication of what we're ignorant about,
and then nobody want that job. But that's like it really would take something like that to get the government to be like, Okay, here's the stuff we don't know and that we're concerned about, but you have a right to know about.
Office of anomalist studies.
Yeah, yeah, or but in the Office of Public Communicators, the Department.
Of Members.
Man incoming, the incoming administration would be really super qualified to create such a department. I think that that's something that's going there.
I'll tell you though, if you look at if you look at it right now, nobody even knows how to handle this situation. The FBI saying, oh, it's not us. The Department of Homeland Security is saying, you know, they're all looking at the Department of Defense, They're looking at the FAA. Nobody is catching this hot potato and saying, this is our responsibility. That's just how bad and discombobulated
that our government operates. And this is really shining a poor, poor light on how how the government communicates with one another.
And I totally agree with you. This is a growth uh spurt that we're having as a nation. And you would think that somebody in the know would say, we do need a department to discuss this. We do need individuals who have certain types of edgy ocasion too, uh, explain this to the press, to explain this to the country in so many words, And it seems like this is an opportunity but who's going to take the mantle
and consider it an office. That's the key. So we're going to take a short commercial break and allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my penel discussing drones, UAPs and first contact. We'll be right back.
Oh holy, nice to start brightly shining.
Each the night, Oh the dear, say you spur.
Loan lay the world an error pine and.
To the and so fathy thou weary world rejoice. Our program today features panelists discussing drones, u aps, and first contact. I have a small gallery I'll placed on the Earth Ancients Facebook page and you can see some of the sizes of these drones and also evidence of alien propulsion systems. I want to move. I want to move on a
little bit. Uh Earlier, Greg made a reference to orbs, and I've spoken to Mark, doctor Mark a couple of times on this, and Mark, we brought brought this up when we began speaking on orbs, talking about dimensional beings, and orbs have been seen around drones, and it's been reported that when these drones come close to these orbs, they lose power and they actually fall out of the sky. What do you say to that, Michael, And what do you think that's an important consideration.
There's a great I don't know if it's a paper on its own, but Kevin Kanouth, who's at Sunny Albany, he's a physicist astrophysicist, has done a really good calculation on the using the idea that some UAP are powered using a really powerful electromagnetic field. And if that's the case, what he's shown that is that these UAP would disable not only electronics, but like regular internal combustion engines too because they would ionize the air in a way that
would prevent combustion from taking place. Than once they left, the sort of ionization with the air would clear and the engines would be able to work. So that that sort of evidence might give us a little clue as to what's powering these things and how they work, and also like what kind of phenomenon they are, whether they're like just pure luminosity in some way, whether they are ionization themselves, or whether they're an object that's emitting an
electromagnetic field or something. I think that's a really cool and empirical piece of evidence that we could do good science.
I only have I guess my problem with that is that we don't have a physics to understand these orbs. And I've seen some photographs in different publications that somewhat show close ups of these orbs, and they're very complex looking, almost cellular in some capacity. Are these ships? Are these are these intelligent? These we don't know? Mark, talk a little bit about your feeling on this topic.
Yeah, I mean some some I believe that.
I think they're called plasmoids or something, right, I mean, they're called by a number of names. And again it's interesting because they're we're kind of ubiquitous.
You find them, you can go.
I I did a study on crop circles, and there's some really interesting sightings. Uh in fact of video that shows the formation of a crop circle, and there's a couple of words moving through a field and these things just sort of take shape. Now again, you know a lot of people would say, oh, crop circles, that's that's a lot of nonsense. But you know a lot of them have been disproven, as you know, or proven to
be hoaxes. But again there are some anomalies there. So again I think this is this is again a widespread phenomenon that can also have been mistaken. It can be mistaken for like sprites or elves above thunderstorms, you know, space. I don't have seen similar things in lower Earth orbit, so you know, against it's another kind of phenomenon that needs to.
Be sorted out.
Some some you know, instantems may be prosaic, but others may be you know, maybe extraordinary, maybe something that we don't understand.
So yeah, I don't know, Greg, Do you have any feeling on on the orbs. Have there been sightings in New Jersey of of ORB like craft?
There have been recently, but again I don't you know, I haven't seen any. I haven't gotten any videos from
family or friends, so you just don't know. But I know there was one by UH that's kind of making its winning around social media right now from UH from Matthew Nelson, the retired Air Force vet near Atlantic City, and it shows an ORB like object and there, I know, I've seen a couple other ones where it's not New Jersey but it's out Midwest where there you see the drone go up to it, get closer and then fall out of the sky. Seeing those videos, But yeah, I
did I tell you guys about my sighting of an ORB. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. So let me tell you about how I got interested in this topic. Okay, so two thousand and thirteen, Before that, I was a big skeptic. I was in college and there's a buddy of mine that I served with, and he was a huge UFO guy talking about roswell and conspiracy theories and government cover ops and we used to get in the lively debates about it. So I didn't
believe him anyway. Twenty thirteen, me and my wife are driving down a rural road in New Jersey by our house and were going through like a wooded area and we come up to a straight line street for a back road and as we get up there, one hundred and fifty feet away from us to our left is an ORB size of a small school bus floating, hovering over the trees and the trees. This is interesting to
me out because I'd like studied it. The trees underneath were whipping around feverishly, and so we're driving in the same direction as this thing for like fifteen twenty seconds and it just it's literally driving parallel to us, and uh, we're cursing. We're like, what the is that? You know, and uh, it was it was mind blowing. So that's
that's what got me into it. And when I saw that it definitely had some type of intelligence to it, you know, it seemed it I mean, it almost seemed like a celestial event, like a micro black hole or something. But it seemed to move with purpose. So that that that's why I got into the UFO and started like researching it, and uh, it's you know, I see the plasmoid conversation about sentient plasmoids sometimes there's papers on that.
I don't know if you guys haven't oi on that, you know, I lean to that though from my experience not being some like alien craft, you know, I think of it as something else. I think it's it's a it's a different type of universal phenomena.
Like a fourth kind of life. That's that's that's character.
Yeah, a fourth life, you know, or maybe even just like like a connection to another universe or another parallel dimensions something like that, like a way to observe our universe. I'm not sure, but there seemed to be some intelligence behind it, and it definitely, uh, it was mind blowing.
Yeah, that's that's an eye one On that note, I'm gonna bring up another anomalist feature, and this is strange. Some people who have had some close encounters with these drones are reporting radiation like sickness. There's a woman who apparently was ill and I can't remember what state it was, but she was in the proximity and I don't know how close she was to this drone, but she had and others apparently in her group had what appeared to
be radiation sickness of some kind. And I'm wondering if any of you had any anything to say about that.
I haven't really heard that myself.
Hmm, yeah, I don't know.
I haven't.
I haven't heard radiation sickness from drone encounters. I mean that would be where what would that mean? That would mean that there's some radioactive like really radioactive opponents.
Yeah. Well, there have been people who have had close encounters, who have touched the ships that have had what looked like radiation burns. And we don't know if it's because the outer haul has a energy filled around it that is tough on biology, but it could be something like that. So that's interesting. As we conclude, I want you all to kind of comment on some of the comments that
are coming up on the various news wires. One is that this is a psyops possibility where they are testing the public's reaction to UAPs, and this is a considered effort to kind of do a test so that when we have the real event, they'll know more about it. Go ahead, Greg, we'll hear from you, sure.
I mean, I don't rule anything out until I have a reason to roll it out. I'll leave it on the table, you know. But I like to give likelihood to certain scenarios, So I would, you know, say that that's somewhat a possible scenario. I don't think it's the most possible, but I haven't ruled it out yet, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, but I don't think it's one of.
The more likely scenarios personally, Okay, Michael, Yeah, that's a that's a really bad scenario because it would be really legal, seriously illegal, to terrorize the US public just to get some data.
It would also not be like very useful because we already have, you know, about seventy years of data about
what the public does in response to UFOs. We've had a lot of UFO sightings, and it would also be a national security threat because what if the what if the answer is you terrorize the US and then like a you know, a chaos ensues and we start burning things down, people die, Right, So if that's the case, it's another one of these versions of like a part of the US government that's gone rogue and is defying its charter and is operating without congressional or civilian oversight.
And that would be like kind of the the way that America goes down. So I really hope it's not that we shouldn't just blithely throw that possibility out there without realizing that it has serious US awful consequences for America.
Yeah, you're right about them going rogue without any oversight. That's a serious issue because that means they can do anything they feel they can do. Sky's a limit, uh, Mark any any comments on that?
Yeah, you know, orson Wells Radio broadcasts in theyde you know, invaders from Mars. You know that was you know, a cheap way of maybe testing public reaction. This is kind of an expensive way and think about it. The technology that's the case. The technology they're using is probably indistinguishable from the kind of technology they're they're trying to warn us against. I mean, it's it's it's inexplicable, it's extraordinary technology.
Where did that come from?
So it's I mean, it's just sort of that whole question is sort of problematic. If they were using you know, like just cheap drones or things that you know, drones and they put a saucer around it's something really you know, like really cheesy and you know, like really flaky like that, well, okay, you know maybe, but you know, just a poorly executed syop campaign. But I mean, this is if this is the case, is being executed with you know, extraordinary technology,
where did that come from? So sort of it doesn't really it doesn't really answer the question in my mind, because it's the technology that we're it's the phenomenon itself that is, like, you know, what are they?
I don't know.
I'm just kind of losing it in terms of what would the point be.
I thought he was asking about the specifically about the New Jersey drones, and in that case, I haven't seen anything that makes me think that they are extraordinary technologies.
I'll throw that out to the whole country or actually earthwise, if it's psyops operations, you're.
Just UAP all uf here or are kind of siops the idea.
Well, I mean, I did start off with the United States because this is what we're focusing on for this program, but there's other countries that are reporting similar types of sightings and they're also dealing with unusual craft. So but well, I mean, one of my thoughts on this whole thing is if the days of scrambling at fifteens at fourteens to intercept the UFO are over and these drones are
now the new response. Is it possible that they are responding to a UFO UAP in a certain area and immediately flooding these areas with drones to analyze them, and we're getting confused as to which is the alien craft and which is the UAP. It seems to me, especially where you are greg, there's so many of these drones that are seen in these waves. Are they going are they being ordered to go to a site to inspect a UAP UFO and this is the problem.
Yeah, So you know, I that scenario is more likely than the last one we discussed. For me, you know, I'm still not sure if that's the case, But that's definitely a more likely scenario. But to Michael and Mark's point, there does seem to be some confusion about whether these are truly anomalous, you know, because most of the reporting
doesn't have them being truly anomalous. But at the same time, there's such a similarity between this case and other ones that have happened in recent years where it seemed like there was truly anomalous behaviors, like from Langley and Colorado. So it's a very confusing situation for me because, yeah, most of the technology doesn't seem very far out there. I mean, there are some verbs, who knows if those are real or not, but most of the technology doesn't
seem like it's a UAP next level technology. So I just wanted to throw that distinction out there because I do think that's part of the confusion that everybody's dealing with, and why I would like to see the government kind of more be more open and transparent about UAP and this issue, so that we can kind of say, no, no, this isn't the technology that you know, reps were saying our fifty two one hundred years ahead of us, or John Ratcliffe was saying, you know, we don't have the
capability to defend it against It's not that it's a different type of UAP. But yeah, So to answer your actual question, though, I do think that that situation where there might be a UAP and then the place gets flooded with drones as a response to it, I do see that being as a possibility in this situation and in the future going forward.
All right, here's one last one for each of you. We've been talking about what we think is military or commercial craft if it is off world. Are we ready for this? Are we ready for accepting that we are part of a brotherhood of planets and we were being welcomed in by whatever means we're seen to begin acknowledging that we're not alone.
Michael, No, we're not ready, But it's exactly what we need, is my answer. I think that it would disturb a lot of the basic conceptions that make up our worldview, at least in the West and probably in all all sorts of parts of the world that are really technologically advanced, you know, by human history standards. No, it would, it would totally upset that. I don't think that our economic
system would know how to adjust. I don't think our scientific theories about the world, are theories of political power and governance, would be ready for it. But all of those systems are broken. They're all they're all sort of
irretrievably sick. And maybe this is the poison that would cure us, or at least would shake us out of the dream of this worldview that we've fallen into where we think that we're you know, that science is going to fix everything, that we've dominated the universe, that we understand everything, we're on the cusp of just like cracking all the codes and figuring it out, and then we'll be able to exploit all of reality for purposes of you know, economic production or whatever. That is what needs
to be fixed. So I really, I really hope that no, we're not ready, but that it is the truth. But I don't think it is the truth. I don't think that these are I like.
Your scenario though, Michael, because you're like, everything's kind of broken right now, in disarray. Here in the United States, We've got a lot of systems that are beginning to fail. We're a young country and other countries are also having their issues. Is this a time when are the powers it be the off world types are saying, maybe we need to help, or maybe we this is what we had planned all along. Earth falls into this phase and we come and we re educate, or we we help
with an evolutionary cycle. So interesting thoughts, Greg, What do you say?
I like to think of a Plato's cave allegory, you know, where the prisoners weren't ready to be free from the cave. You know, when they went out, it was a different reality to them. You know, they weren't prepared, they didn't want to go out. And I think that's where we are right now, like we are not ready. You can't be ready for it. You don't know what to expect. But in the end, if anything like that did occur, I think it would be for the benefit long term for humanity.
Mm okay, Mark, Yeah.
I mean, you know, we're we're very heterogeneous, and I think some would welcome it, some would be extremely fearful, and I think the vast majority nowadays probably would be like, you know, who cares? I mean, I hate to be cynical, but a lot of people are so immersed in technology and their devices in just what's going on in their lives that you know, how does how do the people just aren't interested in the big questions anymore?
You know, where do we come from? Nature of life?
Are we alone in the universe? So would it be totally disruptive? I kind of agree with Mike. I think it probably would wreck hapick to the financial institutions, but maybe, you know, maybe it gets rid of the banks, but big points in the cryptocurrencies they survive. Who knows, So it could be it could be a good thing, uh penning it where you sit on that, But I think it'd.
Be kind of a mixed bag clip.
Yeah, I personally think this is a wake up call, even though it does turn out to be military or private contractors flying their drones without permission and kind of
harrowing situations, uh whatever. But if this is some form of communication from off world, I welcome it, and I think that it's time that we take it to the next level where we have necessarily government sponsored disclosure, but maybe it has to go beyond the government to individuals in the private sector, be it whole states of people or various groups getting an understanding that we're not alone. Because I think we need to move beyond where we
are right now. On an evolutionary pattern and this could be some form of evolution where we and I've always said this, when we know we're not alone, we immediately evolve because we know we are not the only beings around. There's higher intelligences obviously they're in these crafts, so forth and so on. We are forced to evolve. And if that is at the demise of religion, unfortunately, I think that's just part of our evolution. And so that's my feeling. Uh, Greg, Michael,
and Mark, thank you for joining me. I want to give everyone, because this is a podcast, we want everyone to have access to you individually. Give us your contact information. Greg, won't you give us your contact details?
Sure?
Sure?
You go to Greg Goins GEO I N S unidentified dot com or email me at Gregorytgoins at gmail dot com. Thank you so much for having me, Cliff, I really appreciate it.
All right, Thanks Michael, Yeah, thank you for being for letting me be here. This is a fantastic conversation. You can reach out to me if you want to talk to me, if you want me to talk to you. And Michael Glasson at me dot com. That's Michael G.
L A W.
S O.
N at m E dot com And when is the Anomalous Review air? Michael, we want to hear about that too.
Yeah, we put out an episode every other Tuesday if if possible. I mean holidays are in the way right now, but every every platform and on YouTube, so it's just the Anomalous Review. It's the official podcast of the Scientific Coalition for you AP studies, and you can email me about that too if you're if you're interested in finding out more.
Fantastic, Mark Carlotto.
I'm gonna do shameless self promotion.
This is my non in this world and it's my analysis of UFO phenomenon over the last thirty forty years, going back the sixties, and you can contact me at Markcarlatto dot com.
Fantastic guys. I really appreciate your time. I get a little I feel a little warmer now that we've talked, and I kind of have a sense of these these drone phenomenon Personally. I hope there are UFOs u aps myself, but it remains it be decided. So Hey, happy holidays to each of you, and thanks for joining me.
Thanks thanks talking to you guys. Take care.
I hope you got some clarity on the on the issue. I as I'm re listening to this, the interviews of the panel participants, we get some we get some daylight, but I think we also because we don't know the truth behind the these waves. I think we're still left with lots of questions. And again, we are at a strange type time period governmentally, because we are not getting
any satisfaction from government agencies. And that is for me, that's the first I fully expected FAA, FBI, Pentagon, military, even the White House to say something more substantial than don't worry. I mean, really, just to say don't worry seems dis genuine. It seems very unlike our government to respond, and it makes me think things are changing. Things are changing, not necessarily for the better. So what's going to happen when we do have the identification of an alien craft?
How are we going to react to that?
Now?
We've had many discussions in the past on the Brookies Institute Document of First Contact. We've had this last couple of years, the NASA going to various theologians around the world to ask them kind of ask backwards way of reviewing how people react. But they ask these guys, these priests and pastors and rabbis, how are you going to
react to the first contact? And most of them said, or are very uncomfortable, because most advanced cultures are advanced civilizations are going to look at religion probably and go, what are you doing? You know it's man made? You know, perhaps they'll show us that there is a creator in some form of tapping the a kashak record, And I fully expect a kashk record which will probably be probably be defined as some other level of reality, a reality
that they are alien brethren can access more readily. I fully expect them to go, hey, well, we don't call it the akashik, we call it the whatever. You know, this is a source of information, it's a source of a source of confirmation. And there may be much much deeper levels to this thing we call the Acajuk records. Then we under stand so lost to look forward to. I hope in my lifetime we do have some form of contact, some form of clarification that we're not all
alone in our cosmos. I mean, I know for a fact that the Maya knew and regularly had contact with off world beings. It's thought that the early Dynastic Egyptians had the same kind of communication. And we don't know about the Chinese, we don't know about the other ancient cultures. But it's a fascinating thought. I hope you enjoyed that. Hey, we got a spot left on our Rappahannui tour. It's March fifty to the twenty third. We all meet in Santiago, Chile, and then we all get on a plane and fly
to Easter Island. Our host is doctor Edwin Barnhardt, who's been there a number of times and has surveyed the island, and we will follow his survey path and really see some unusual sites when we're there with him. If you like to learn more about it, go to Earthancients dot com forward slash tour, look for the banner, click on it. You'll see the full itinerary as well as information. If
you have any information. If you have any questions whatsoever, so me an email, send it to Earth Ancients the number four the letter you at gmail dot com and I'll get right back to you. I mean, we probably can squeeze another person into make twenty one, but Ed was telling me the other day he prefers twenty. That's one person. So if you have the adventure Bug going to join us twenty people and a very intimate tour with doctor Edwin Bonhardt. Join us. Go to Earth Ancients
dot com, forward Slash Tours. Check it out and if you're interested register otherwise let me know in an email if you have any questions. It's gonna be a last all right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my panel is today, Greg going coming to us from New Jersey, Michael Glassan coming to us from South Carolina, and doctor Mark Carlato coming to us from the East Coast. As always, thank you to Gail Tour, Mark Foster and
everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock Merry Christmas and we will see you and we'll see you after Christmas next week.
Cheers, back back, back and dick dock bock and b and dock and bock bock and buck bangle b a back of dick and back and back and back and back and back and back and bock a bock and pock a peck and back a back and back and back and back a back and back and back and b