Robert Temple: The Sirius Mystery, Revisited

This week we go to Africa and the Dogon people of Mali, who describe interactions with alien beings known as the Nomo. This is over five thousand years ago. My guest today is Robert Tipple, who wrote a groundbreaking internationally bestseller known as The Serious Mystery, The Contact of an Alien Race with Earth Lanes thousands of years ago, the information they left on civilization and what may be

contact today with alien beings. This book caused such a stir when it came out in nineteen seventy six that the CIA in England's MI six intelligence agencies came after Robert, came after his associates and really wanted them to cease and desist from this narrative of ancient aliens. All this and more today on Earth Ancients for Saturday, July fifteenth, twenty twenty three. This is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, Hey, how are you?

You know? When I started Earth Ancients in twenty fourteen, the goal was to bring forth the latest thought leaders on ancient civilizations, the evidence, the megalists, we don't know how they are cut, you know, also potentially off world types. It all kind of sprinkles together in many ways. And you know, we've had people, We've had the best of the best. I mean, Earth Ancients is an award winning podcast internationally, award winning simply

because I demand the best from my guests. As a former program director, I have the ins and outs with the publishing houses, Hollywood news agencies. We have a lot of access. And because we have access, this is what is the guiding light of Earth Ancients programming. Now we've had Graham every year. We're gonna have him again at the end of this year to talk

about what's going on in his personal life. If you guys didn't get a chance to see Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix, I strongly urge you to get it because it's just it's fun, it's fun to look at and we're hoping that he gets to do a season two so he can kind of continue on where he left off. He upset a lot of archaeologists, a lot of anthropologists who are unable to bend to the orthodox view of life, a view of history, and we question history every single week here on Earth Ancients, as

well as Destiny and an Earth Ancient Special Edition, The Archives. But what I really love about Earth Ancients is the fact that we are asking scientists who have gone off the orthodox trail and are looking at our past through different lenses. And these lenses are and we don't see this in a with traditional archaeologists. These are engineering, chemical analysis, physics. True science is looking at our past and changing the narrative. Now, my guest today is Robert Temple,

Professor Robert Temple. I have wanted to have him on the program for a number of years to talk about a groundbreaking book he wrote in nineteen seventy six called The Serious Mystery. And what makes this book not only profound for those who are into the ancient alien hypothesis, it's the fact that when it came out, the scientific community, other than a few oddballs, embraced it.

In fact, we're going to hear exactly what happened in this release this amazing book that was started out as an article and was blossomed into a book simply because Robert was getting poor reaction and he needed to continue on his research, and he actually released the entire book or a couple of years after he wrote an article. And we'll hear more details about this shortly, but it's an important book that a lot of people can't talk about the orthodox he cannot

talk about the potential that we were seated. It's a form of pants burmia

by other cultures, other planetary systems. And we've had Shandra Rook Ramsey on the program a number of times talking about his belief that panspermia is in play right now, if you remember, and by the way, we had this on Earth Ancient special edition the Archives, we had doctor Milton Wainwright who actually photographed what he believes are cells and seeds that are in our stratosphere that open at a certain time, perhaps during a special time of the year, and

release their their interior. It looks like bits and pieces of DNA. What makes this so amazing, and it's just too much for most scientists, is the fact that when they look at these pods, these seeds under the power of a microscope, their artificial seeds. They're made with some kind of metal or plastic or or combination of polymers that we don't understand, and at some

point they are releasing their contents in our atmosphere. Now, this has likely been going on for thousands of not ten thousands of years, and it's important that we talk about this now. The program today is specific to this amazing discovery of this Dogon tribe in Africa and what their history is after being contacted and educated by these beings called nomos. We don't know. I mean, there's a lot of history that has been left on the way side the anthropologists.

The initial research that was done in the nineteen thirties and later was released in articles, were released in white papers in scientific journals. Most of the public never heard of the Dogon people until Robert Temple wrote this book, The Serious Mystery. So these kinds of books are the foundation for Earth ancients. It is what makes me excited. It drives my interest in our history. And if you've been with us long enough, you know that I am constantly

questioning the current narrative of our ancient past. Historians would like to us to believe that prior to the Egyptians, Sumerians, maya ancient Chinese and so on, there were hunters and gatherers. Well, the evidence is changing radically in the technology within the pyramids that are likely not dynastic. Not the Great Pyramid has nothing to do with Egyptians at all. This is the sense other buildings

around the world. We've had two scientists, doctor Mark Carlotto, Mark build Reps, who's a mathematician, show us and begin to reveal evidence that there are earlier people that came to Earth either evolved through thousands of years of evolution prior to our history. This is an earlier epic, and according to Bill Reps, the earliest temples go back four hundred thousand years. You can't mention that or even give that hint to an academics, anthropologist or archaeologists. They

just can't perceive a it. So my hope, and we'll do this every single week, is to get the science, get the evidence, get the validation of what the hell is going on where we were in the previous epics. My big question always is who we were our ancestors? Are they Homo sapiens sapiens that likely were, but likely a different brain chemistry, different physiology, and so farth and so on, And the other questions are what was

Earth like? Now? It's possible that Earth's gravity was different, planet was a different size, the continents were different compared to where they are today. There were continents that are not invisible now Atlantis could be one of them. We're gonna hear ear in a couple of weeks about dogger Land, which connected Great Britain to Europe and what was going on there. There were a lot of land mass on the planet in the previous epic and where did these people

go? Why don't we have evidence? Well, as we develop more ability to go under the underwater and do surveys and do excavations and do archaeology, we're going to discover a whole new world that opens the door to where we've been, who we were, and who our ancestors were. So today's program, The Serious Mittery with Robert Temple, is one of these foundational books that

is very important for you to grasp. And it's really a benefit that we have a wonderful guest in Robert Timble, because he's a brilliant speaker, and not only that he is in tune with what's going on currently with our government, the cover ups that are going on in terms of UAPs Ailien interactions with earth lanes and you know, and the question is gonna you'll hear it today, why does our government have such great problems with off world types? Why

are the revelations so hidden and kept top secret from from everyday people. It doesn't make any sense. It really doesn't. So I'm really excited about this. This is, like I said, this is the kind of material that is critical to understand, critical to take in and balance with your critical thinking skills. Is it right for me? Does it make sense? Does it

flow with my consciousness? Or do I deny it completely because of my fundamental religious background, my beliefs in Earth's history, what my education is or does it we go to the next step. My PhD has blinded me. I cannot get beyond this. That's not what I was trained to understand. And it's because of that training I disavow the history as it's told to us by the Dugan people. So there you go. Those are your choices. My great suggestion for you would be to stay as open as you can open your

brain, let it in. Listen to my guests each week, and I think you'll realize that there is something happening that is a revolutionary revolution in our history that are current historical perspective is closed off. We are looking at our history from colored glasses, a single perspective, and this has to change. Now. I have a short recording done of a Dugon priest and you'll hear

the question. This is a short three minute interview. This is a priest in Africa, Dugan priest who is being asked questions about their connection to the cosmos. So I have a quick listen to this. Now, the Dogon people, they were able to chart and map out the Serious Star. So as far as technology to do that, is there any other is there any hidden technology that they have or what technology did they use to to be able to map out the Serious Star? Yes, the Serious Star. I'll tell

you. I see. I'm certain I did tell you before. Because I'm a dog and I come from the the one country I amn't born here, I can answer an easy execution. So we don't have a special technology to know about the Serious Star. But we Dougan people, we think our history is related and linked with the Serious Star, because in our mythology we still

think that we come from the sky through the through the Serious Start. We have been guided on the earth by Also, like the first question that that people had and I had myself was now the Doguan were the first to map out the stars. As far as seeking to rule which we call the Serious Star, Yes, I know. Space travel is a big initiative as far as life being able to go to Mars and live our Mars, do the dogun think is possible for human beings to live on other planets? What?

Okay? I'm about it? Said? They they don't understand how it's it's possible, okay, And they don't think that would be possible one day okay, we're leaving outside this or this planet. They don't think if it's possible. Okay, yeah, this is this is what they think. Okay. Now, the dog Guard came from the Serious Star, correct, yea core do they plan on ever returning back to the Serious Star? Okay? Logic

and you correct? Wh iverybody joining, I said that we come from the Series Star from this is the mythology of the Dogan country, of the Dogan people, and this is the history of our being here in the Earth. But they they don't have any instruction right now. They don't have any think of going back to live again on a series Star right now, he said. They don't have any instruction from their ancestor, and they don't know any They don't know how that would be possible at the moment at the moment,

but maybe yes, he said it. At the end, he said it's a life. So he don't know. They don't have any instruction. Yeah, now I know we talked about global warming. Yes, you know was in here back when there were lions and hyenas and antelope and all of that here in Dogan country. I'm Nana, I'm i to minute guard your sugar. Why why why did you do you go? Why did she can do?

Nick going in you? Now, I'm gonna go n hen we're looking gott ii minute can be then shet you Everybody like yeah there, okay, I'm gonna He said he didn't found the walloo himself because he but his father shows the wallo as his father passed away. His father shows antelope. They found koodoo here, they found gazelle here, they found ana here, they

found other big animals here. But the walloo in Donau means antelope. They didn't found the antelope here himself, I mean his generation, but his father father generation. Yes, and he said, yes, I'm coming. And he said that there is a place which is named guru Wauru means like the value of antelope. There is a place where where you have you had a lot of antelope. And they named this place name Walla guru means the value,

the value of the antelope. Okay, yeah, so but then now he said, all these things are gone except you have some Hyaena, not many of them, but you can you have you can still have some hydas you now. The Doga live in a place called Molly, Africa, and

they live in these mud huts. I have a gallery that you can see where they live and live right up against a huge cliff, very very unique buildings and there's a great deal to see in their sand paintings which describe the serious constellation and the planets that these aliens who came to Earth came from.

So that gallery is really critical to check out. And by the way, you must you must go to Earth Ancients Facebook page every week because there are galleries of some phenomenal imagery, illustrations and graphs that are put up not only by me, but by our science team, by our team in Europe and in America, and some of the images are amazing. Our average readership is between five hundred thousand and a million people every two weeks, and that's how

popular these images are. If you're not into the images, go to earth ancients dot com Facebook. You're only going to get the images that I post and those those are what I call show notes podcast show notes, so you can see those there. But there's a lot to like on Earth Ancients group page or the international page on Facebook. So if you go to if you go to Facebook and you go to Earth Ancients, you go to group,

that's one group. If you go to the other one, that's the I call the international group the hardcore listeners, and that's about one hundred thousand people who are either scientists, students, anthropologists, archaeologists, egyptologists who pipe in and give you their opinion. And it's really a good place to go. Not only does it sometimes validate the guests that we have on the program, but it helps you understand that it isn't a done deal just because scientists say

it is. There's a lot of conjecture, there's a lot of hypothesis, there's a lot of theories, and a lot of science is guesswork or the best theories that can come up with, so which makes it really a challenge when when you go up against current thought with your own theories, be it from a university or individual, it can be a real problem. So so my guest today is Professor Robert People. And the book we're talking about is

the international bestseller, The Serious Mystery. Oh my god, summer is here. What does that mean? It means I want to get out. I don't want to cook. I don't have time to cook. I want to get food quickly. Factor America's number one ready to eat milk. It can help you fuel up with your favorite foods, nutritious ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door. I've been eating from their menu for the last couple of weeks, and I gotta tell you their food is amazing. You'll save

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that fifty percent discount. It's really an amazing meal. I love their food. Robert Temples in the house. For those of you who don't know who he is, we just had him on a few months ago discussing a book called a New Science of Heaven. It's based on his research on plasma. Fascinating topic. But I gotta tell you I have been a fan of Robert Temple's for many, many years, and that's because he wrote a fascinating book

called The Serious Mystery. Would you believe it was written in nineteen seventy six, And what an influential book this was. People like Graham Hancock, Robert bavalje On, Anthony West, my friend Robert Anton Wilson, and many many other authors have been influenced by this book. And it came out so many years ago. It's a great pleasure to have Robert on the program. I didn't mention this before. I wanted to read a little bit about his background.

He is a member of the Royal Astronomical Society, the Society for the Promotion of Hellenistic Studies, the egypt Exploration Society, the Royal Historical Society, the British School of Archeology at Athens, the Institute of Classical Studies, so forth and so on. He's written books and I mentioned the book recently, A New Science of Heaven. But Robert, it's great to see you again.

We have a lot to talk about. This book is fascinating, and I want to start by mentioning that this was originally an article that you wrote based on a selection I think you you you talk about connecting with a noted individual and he is looking at various tribes and he says, this is the Dogana, the most unusual, and you said, okay, I'm interested in

there. Talk a little bit about how the Scott launched and what the focus was back there, because that's that's fascinating that this was an article that turned into a book. Well, it's um. I'll try to give you the short version of the story. Yeah, I was an undergraduate. First of all, I went to university at the age of sixteen rather than eighteen. And um, and so I tended. My classmates found it maybe a little

bit embarrassing to be with somebody who they regarded as a kid. Maybe so, so it was kind of natural for me to make friends with the older boys who weren't embarrassed any longer because they were a bit more grown up and the idea of conversing with a sixteen year old wasn't considered embarrassing. And and so I I befriended a wonderful boy called John Cogeshall, who was at least

four years older than me, I think. And he was sitting having a coke, and we had a coke together in what passed for very basic not really a student union. It was just the University of Pennsylvania. This is in Philadelphia, and they didn't really have a student union then, and everything was a bit primitive. But I don't think I would like it today.

I liked it primitive. So um. He and I got talking and he said that when he came to pend that his father had told him to look up his friend who was called Arthur Young because John's father, Calvert carg Shaun, had worked with this chap Arthur Young, who was an inventor who had invented the Bell helicopter one with the glass bubble, and John's father had actually

worked on the bubble of the helicopter. And so John went dutifully went off and met Arthur Young, who was an absolutely fascinating man and was much more interesting interesting than merely just a helicopter inventor, because he was a very profound philosopher and student of every branch of science. He had studied mathematics at Princeton under Veblen, and it was he was He was frankly a genius, and he liked younger people and used to have have him come to see him and

for scientific discussions and that kind of thing. And this is how I met Arthur Young when I was sixteen, and um, so I started seeing Arthur more than John did. Um And because John was often busy with ROTC, he ended up as an officer in the army for a while after he left university. And but I didn't do ROTC, and so um I had more time available, and I would walk to Center City where Arth had lived.

He had a big house there, and and I get I got into the habit of dropping in because Arthur was always there reading and studying and had the most charming wife called Ruth. And I'd be asked to stay for dinner, which was, I must confess, quite an attraction, a good idea, because I wasn't eating very much. And and so I dropped into Arthur one day and I was called Bob then, because everybody in Americans called Bob where I was here in England, I'm Robert. That they won't let me be

called Bob, and that's not formal enough, you see. And so he said, oh, Bob, I'm reading a very interesting book. It's called African Worlds, edited by somebody called Daryl Ford. Yeah, I don't know who Daryl Ford is. I just got this book because it's got a chapter about Each chapter is about a different African tribe, so it's a whole collection

of chapters about a whole collection of tribes. And he said, it's very interesting and they're all very different from one another, and most people don't realize how different the African tribes are from one another, which in itself is an interesting subject. And he said, But the most amazing African tribe are called the Dogons. The Dogones he mispronounced what we now know is should be Dogon, he called them. He thought that was quite funny, the Dogons that

dug On tribe, you know. And he said that their religion and culture entirely based on the star Serious. He said, I found that very strange. But they say that there's a star that goes around Serious, and they talk all about that. It's really the star that goes around Serious that interests them than Serious itself. He said, I wonder if there is a star that goes around Serious. I said, oh, yes, yes, because I knew a bit of at on me and I said, well, yes,

Arthur, there is actually a star going around Serious. That's why it's called a binary star system. And it goes around I forget how many years, and it's a small star what they call a white dwarf, which I suppose these today days would be called racist or colonialist for a dwarf to be white, wouldn't it. Um? So um, sorry about that, Yeah, very un PC joke. So m I said, I'm going to go back and check in my one of my astronomy books just to make sure this

because you have to bear in mind there was no internet then. You couldn't just go to your computer and look something up. You hadn't had a book or go to the library. I was practically living in the university library anyway. And I looked it up, and I want to see him again. I said, Arthur, you know there is a star going around Seriously every fifty years, Serious B they call it. The astronomers call it B in the main stars A and UM. And so he said, well, let

me get this book out again and look at it. And he said, well, you know they the dogone, Well no, he said, the dog one tried say that there's this little star that goes around serious every fifty years. But that's what you've just told me you looked up in an astronomy book. I said, well, how how could they know that because nobody

could can see the little starr it was. It's you know, it's very difficult to see because it's so small and it's sort of blotted out by the enormous light coming from Serious A. And I said, well, there's no way a tribe in Africa without modern scientific telescopes could could know about this star much less know the orbital period. This is ridiculously strange. And we agreed

that it was ridiculously a strange. But then, you know, I was involved in things, and he was involved in things, and I didn't pursue it, and neither did he. I then moved to England, and I got interested because I had by that time met Arthur C. Clark, the science fiction writer. And in fact, I spent two years watching Kubrick make the film two thousand and one, a Space Artyssey, and and so I was reading Arthur's books, I mean the other author, Arthur C. Clark's

books and all about extraterrestrial life and this kind of thing. And he not only wrote the science fiction novels, he wrote essays and what have you. And we talked a lot because he's a completely open guy, and on his visits to England from from Ceylon where he lived, which Ceylon is now called Sri Lanka, then he would be very open to to seeing people in pubs. And you know, he was never a stuffy person and who had a big idea about himself. He was a completely normal, normal human being.

And it was never ego centric, the very opposite of the horrible Carl Sagan, who was so stuck on himself. He was he was the kind of male Megan Marco, who was not my favorite woman, and so um, you know, I don't like these kind of narcissistic, egotistic people. So the opposite, he was totally open, and so he got me really thinking about space and life in space. And I met several of the people doing all that. I got to know Asimov and various people of that sort.

And so I wrote to Arthur. Because there were no emails, remember this as long ago you had to do snail mail. I wrote to Arthur and I said, can you remind me of the name of that book where the dog Gone tried were discussed and who had their culture based on the little star going around? Serious? And he looked it up and sent me a photocopy of the chapter. He's very good that way. But I was doing a bit of research for him always. I helped him write his two main books

because his writing style was very bad at first. He later became excellent at it, but he did he was not a natural writer to start with, and so I used to help him with the style and so on, and do research for him and I discovered some of his fundamental things that he put in his books. We worked well together despite the huge age gap, which

we ignored. And so then I got that and I went to the Royal Anthropological Society in London, which still existed then it shut down a few years later, and they had a big library, and I said, what have you got about the Dogon tribe and the library? And said, oh, you mean the Dogon tribe, which is when I first learned how to pronounce

their name, And he said, oh, lots of things. And I went to something that younger people would never have heard of, called card index, because the libraries had all their books listed on These are board cards and you pull them out of a drawer of drawers, you know, the index cards. Yeah, index cards. I'm sure nobody under forty has ever seen

one, but that's how it was. And so I saw all these things, and everything was in French, because the anthropologists who had studied them were French, because this was in a country called Molly, which used to be French Equatorial Africa they called it, or even the East call it the the Egyptian, the French Sudan, which is kind of strange thing to call it. And so this is long before Molly became an independent republic. And I

found one article that had serious in the title. But oh, that's the one I need, because I want to find out more about this crazy serious idea. You know, what what does this tribe think of talking about talking about the star serious? And how do they make the overttle period of its companion? And so I got this. Now I couldn't read French, and so I got somebody to do a very poor translation of it, which wasn't very good, but it gave me enough information to go on with and and

so I thought, I've got to look into this a lot more. And then I came to a conclusion that it was such a strange tale that I should write an article about it, because I had by that time started doing a bit of journalism. Well, in fact, I had actually started journalism when I was still in America, but it was slower getting started in London, where I didn't know anybody. So I wrote an article about this, saying as much as I knew at that time, which wasn't necessarily very much.

But I just just wanted to call attention to this because my idea was or somebody more qualified than myself. We'll go off and investigate this which needs investigating. I was convinced of it. I couldn't get any any editor of any magazine to take it seriously, and they would say things like, well, we'd have to know much more. This is too weird, you know, I mean, where did you get this problem? And then so I then expanded the article by doing more research to become more convincing to them that

it was important enough to publish the article. And this come completely flopped and I couldn't get anybody to take any notice of it at all. Yeah, this is um. They just they wouldn't take it seriously. It was too weird. Their idea was, this can't be true, therefore we're not going to publish it. So then I thought, well, I'm going to go on looking answer this even if I can't publish an article. And I kept researching more and more and more, and it turned into a book. Well

then I thought, well what do I do with a book? Because I didn't have an agent or I never posed a book, and and I was the young guy that nobody ever heard of. I didn't were you Were you a university student when you were writing this book or had you graduated already?

Oh? I graduated from Penn. Okay, we're going to England. Okay, So so this is written an then pretty much well completely oh okay, I didn't read any of it, okay, And so um, then um, just because I happened to have a friendly neighbor in London who's he was a gay guy whose boyfriend or partner as one would say now, was a literary agent. Um, he said, well, look, um, I'll introduce you to him. I didn't find him very friendly, but he said

he'll he'll take you on and be your agent for your book. They offered it to a publisher called Sidgwick and Jackson, which was an independent publisher. There aren't any left now, but there were plenty then, which was a very strange place. But I can't get into the story of of Sigewikon Jackson Jackson. That's the subject of another conversation. And so they accepted the book away, to the great surprise of the agent and because he didn't think anybody

would take this nonsense. And so I got the vast sum of two hundred and fifty pounds for this book. That was your advance or what yeah, okay, I had a royalty deal. But but and that was nineteen seventy three. So I delivered the book in nineteen seventy three. The publisher they took three years to get around to publishing it because they they had no interest in it, and they thought, this is a ridiculous book. Nobody's going to buy it. But you know, after three years of my nagging them,

and meanwhile, I only had the two hundred and fifty pounds. See, I wasn't earning any money from this great venture. And they finally decided, oh well, we'll bring it out, and they published it in nineteen seventy six. And during the interval I wrote the appendices that are at the back of that book, which was a very interesting one about the Greek philosopher Proclus who knew about the invisible moons and planets and things. And I wrote

that one up. And so it came out and to everybody's total astonishment, most of all the astonishment of my publishers, who did not think the book was worth a penny. It got lead favorable rave reviews in The Times and the Telegraph, which are the two major newspapers in London. They simply couldn't

believe it. Times in the Telegraph both thought that I was the best thing since sliced bread, and the book was wonderful, which made the people at the publishers feel rather small and stupid, which were And anyway, it went on from there and it started agetting, and then it was a big television coverage on the BBC about it, and various things happened like that, and so then it's sold all over the world. It became a huge bestseller in

Germany. It was I think on the best seller list in Germany for two years. Now. Wasn't there some serious scientific paper journals like Nature that picked it up? And yes, we're very favorably. It was very favorably reviewed by a professor of astronomy in Nature as a lead review in one of the Nature issues. Yeah, you hit it. You hit a home run out

of the park with this book. You were like the scictific community pretty much embraced it, right, they did, absolutely, And that lasted for about a year, and then by nineteen seventy seven I became the target of a coordinated character assassination campaign by a group of people who basically run by a certain intelligence agency that might be in the same country where you are at the moment. Well, I want to before we get into that, and this is

very strange what happened. We're talking the late seventies, and first we get a positive reaction from the scientific community universal. I mean, we have the every newspaper, every magazine, I mean Nature, Nature by itself is a huge, very very prestigious magazine for them to say, you've got something here, we'd like it, so forth and so on, accolades from them, and then all of a sudden, a year later, the intelligence community CIA, M I six start turning on you. Why why does this happen?

Well, that's what I wanted to know. I now realize that they don't like anybody to get really close to the series that's no pun intended issues concerning active terrestrial intelligence. In other words, they want totally control the narrative on that subject. And if it's crazy people writing about flying sauces, they don't care. But if it's somebody who's starting to get praised in Nature magazine,

then I was considered a threat. So, I mean, that doesn't make sense to me, especially during the time when you're writing this, because we got people well, maybe what you're saying, is is the case You're you're getting alcolades from scientific community and they would rather have you be ancient alien perhaps so Eric Van Downigan kind of they don't worry about that kind of thing. Yeah, that's that's too frivolous for them to worry about. Yew. How

bad did this uh, this oversight affect you? Oh? It was terrible, really terrible, And it included Carl Sagan as one of the main people because he wasn't he was a CII guy. Yeah. Now, I had spoken to Isaac Asimov prior to this, and he had read my book and thought it was wonderful, and he said he was look, he kept looking for mistakes and errors and he said he actually said to me, I couldn't find a single mistake or error in your book anywhere as if he was gazed

and he was really in favor of it. And then with only weeks later he turned against me and started savagely attacking me, which totally was in contradiction to what he had privately said to me because he'd been given his instructions. You see, because there's this group of the psychop scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal Si cop was the name of their group, and the members of

that took their instructions from on high. And if there was an enemy like me who surfaced, an enemy to the total control of the UM it's a serious discussion of anything extraterrestrial, then they would they would target that person and systematically relentlessly published terrible articles accusing me of being an idiot, everything was wrong, and and Um Sagan published an article attacking me an omnimagazine which the people might remember it was a very very glossy magazine. And UM I wrote to

the editor. I complained to Arthur. He said, oh, right, to the editor, I know him, and um and so UM I said that everything that Karl Sagan said about the book in his article is wrong. I mean to the most ludicrous extent. He's got everything wrong and and the charges he levels against me are totally false. And UM, may I please have the right of reply and write an article myself correcting all of that. And and so I got to apply from them saying we don't want to upset

Carl. I said, well, look yeah, I said, well I don't. I don't want to attack Carl. I want to set the record straight and correct all these errors, and they refused to let me publish even one word, even as a letter. But you see, that was in terms of defending myself. But it got much worse because the CIA then targeted me for many, many, many years, and they would approach people whom I knew and tell them terrible things about me which weren't true. Princess I

am. I made an arrangement to write a fourteen training videos with a with a guy who had a video company, and we did one, a very good one that was and um, we were going to do thirty nine more just to first orders. This was going to become a really major busines, these respect training videos. And m he he. He phoned me and he said, Robert, UM, I'm not supposed to tell you this. I've

been warned not to tell you. He said, but you're such a good friend and I like you so much, and I feel so bad about this that I feel honor bound to tell you what's happened. He said, I can't work with you. I said, what do you mean, We've already got an agreement, We've already made our first film. No, no, no, it's not that I don't want to work with you, Robert. He said, I can't work with you, which I said, what do you mean you can't work with me? He said, well, Robert,

the CIA have come to see me. Now we're talking about he lives in England. Yeah, but the CIA came to see him in England and they said, we understand you're doing a series of films with Robert Temple. You must you can't do that. You must stop. If you don't stop, we will destroy your business. He said, what do you mean, It's ridiculous. And he tried to not go along with that for a few weeks, and he said they were pestering him every day, phoning him, coming

to see him, threatening him. And he said that he hated to tell me this because he felt like a jerk, but he said he couldn't afford to have his whole life and his whole business ruined. Yeah, because we wanted to work together, he said, it was it was more then it was worth to him to go on working with me because the CIA would take revenge against him. Yeah, Robert, you write something fascinating in this.

I don't want to spend a lot of time on this, but I do want to talk about it because you considered they were considering you what you call a security thread. Yes, and this is because any about a friendly in

the public things. Yeah, this has to this has this is actually moves into the present time when we're talking about unidentified aerial phenomenon or the new term UAPs, anything to do with off world aliens UFOs, any kind of clarity that isn't comic book like ancient Aliens and books like that that relate to that, and someone like you who's a serious researcher in the scientific realm, this is a problem for the for this security agency, for the CIA m I

six and you are a threat, I guess, to the point where they didn't want anybody to have anything to do with you, so they wanted to destroy me completely. Yeah. Now I was already a member of something called the Royal United Services Institute for Defense Studies in and UM. But this because I was interested in defense, and I used to go along to the the talks and then UM you get people like the head of NATO and and so on, and the Defense Minister coming along and sometimes you didn't even get to

chat with them. I was fascinated, just pure amateur is interesting wasn't involved in any of this kind of thing. Defense and Um and so UM one day at tea after a lecture, because we used to all go up to the director's office and have tea in those days, and Um Chat I was very friendly with called um Brigadier Bidwell, Um, who was always there. Um came up to me at tea and he said, Robert Um, I've read your book The Serious Mystery. Why would you read my book The Serious

Mystery Unit in that sort of thing. You're a military historian. Oh, I know, I know. I would never normally have read it. I was told I had to. I said, what do you mean, You're told you had to read my book, The Serious Mystery. I mean it's just so UNU because he was a very straight guy, you know, old guy retired of course, And he said, well, you know, I was told I was approached. And they said, you know this Robert Temple,

you're very friendly with him. We want you have to read his book and write a report on it and tell us what you think, and give us a report on what you think of him and him in connection with this book. This was for the British security people because the trouble originated in America, didn't originate in Britain. It was the Americans pressing the Brits and so

he said, So I read it. I found it very interesting. I mean I didn't think I would the last thing I would normally read, but he said, but when I got into it, I thought it was very interesting. So I just wanted to congratulate you, Robert, on writing that strange book, and which is not very cool. This is what not what he's meant to have done. Of course, he's meant to have attacked me.

And um, he said, I wrote a report about it. I said how interesting it was, and just to not go down well with the CIA, and several people behaved like that and talk about many people approached me and said, you won't believe Arthur C. Clark. He phoned me from Sri Lanka one day. And this is when making those kind of long distance calls was quite a hassle. Couldn't do a direct dial. I had to

go through operators. And he said, he called me Bob. He said, Bob, Um, I don't want to alarm you unduly, but I just want to warn knew about something he said, I've discovered because he was very friendly with all the guys at NASA, and I was friendly with a couple of guys from NASA. He said, I want to warn you because Isaac, which was Asimov and his group are going for you. They're going to try and destroy you. They are very, very dangerous enemies of yours.

And he said, I don't know what you can do to stop them or to protect yourself, but I wanted to warn you that these are very dangerous people and they're going for you. That was Arthur Clark, who was the mildest of men, and he never criticized anyone to call attention to me because I was his friend. That I was in danger because of these weird people, some of whom were supposedly his friends like Asimov, were determined to knock me out of the picture. This is what it is like in the

many, many more examples. Yeah, I wrote replies to most of the printed attacks, and I published them as a pamphlet which is downloadable from the website www dot research gate. When word dot net, if I think it's um, the data is nineteen seventy seven. You couldn't you type in my name, yeah, Temple, and you go down the list they're chronocologically listed all my technical papers and things. Go down to nineteen seventy seven, and

you will find um this um it's called. It's a pamphlet called The Serious Mystery, Answering the Critics, in which I totally demolish Carl Sagan and all the other guys. Yeah, and already twelve thousand downloaded that havent twelve thousand people downloaded that without my tell it must be filled the fact descinating replies to

these these attacking letters. We're gonna take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we'll be right back with my guest today, Robert Temple, and his view of the book he wrote in nineteen seventy six called The Serious Mystery. We'll be right back. I guess today is Professor

Robert Temple. He is coming to us from England today. He wrote a groundbreaking international bestseller in nineteen seventy six called The Serious Mystery, and it highlights the dogon people of Mali, Africa and their connections to an alien race known as the Gnomos, who come from the Serious Constellation. I want to get into the fundamentals of this book, Robert No, No, it wasn't nineteen seventy seven. Hold on, I've got it wrong. It was nineteen ninety

seven, oh ninety seven, quite a few years later. Yes, that's because in nineteen ninety eight I brought a new edition of The Serious Mystery. Yeah, it expanded with fifty more material. Yeah, you've seen it, and that's the one that's currently in print, and that you It has a

lot more information in it. And the reason I brought it out was that some aster physicists verified one of the statements of the Dogon tribe about the Serious Star System, and it was verified by some aster physicists and I so it was like a verifying a prediction, you see. And so I brought the book out again in expanded form, highlighting the fact that the information in it, which was considered to be impossible, had just been verified, which is

equally embarrassing to people that then became popular. You're basically verifying that aliens came to Earth left Their impressions with this African tribe were not with the African tribe, no, No, the story they maintained that they got all this information their ancestors go all the information visiting aliens, but it never happened in Africa, the dog The dogon never claimed that anybody visited them in Africa, and they've only been in Africa for one thousand years. Where there where did their

ancestors actually reside. Well, this has all been traced by anthropologists quite on my work, and and so I discovered all that and put it into the serious mystery to explain who are these dogon and where did they come from? Well, they all came down from the oasis of the Phasan f ziz And which is in the Sahara desert um about a thousand years ago. And they they were they looked a bit like it sort of our skin color um.

And then they intermarried with local people so that they're now very black in appearance. But you know that the reason why people are black is to protect their their bodies from the ultra violet radiation. So they why skins are darker for people living in the tropics, because the UV would kill them otherwise. So the melanin fills up the skin and you get darker and darker and darker. The further south you go, the nearer the equator you are, so that

you survive. That's that's why there are people whose skins are black, doesn't mean that they're necessarily African. You get that with the Ethiopians, you get it with some of the people in Sri Lanka, you get it with all the people around the world, the Dravidians in India. Um, this is

this is all to do with ultra violet radiation affecting the skin. And so the reason why people are so weird about being and taking any notice at all of skin color, which I won't um, it's because they don't understand what skin color means. And this is where all this weird racism comes in, which is so pointless and stupid. Um. You know, it's literally superficial and that is pun intended because what could be more superficial about a person than

how much melanin they've got in their skin? And exactly you get all the white people, what do they do. They lye in the sound to get a tan. They end up darker than the people that they feel racist against. And yet they think that's beautiful. But it's not beautiful if it's on somebody else, only only them lying in the sun. This is total insanity, the whole skin color nonsense. Right, So when when when was the first contact of these aliens? Uh? Well, they they maintained that it

was in the very distant past. So then I traced the ancestors back much further than the oasis of For then they they were a tribe that lived in North Africa for millennia. They were living in Libya and Algeria and that area for a very long time. They were very well known, and they were even mentioned by the ancient Greek historian Herodotus. And I constructed a map of

the north of the North African tribes as described by Herodotus. It depending up his descriptions upon the sequence in which you encountered them as you went in whatever direction. And I was able to produce the first map of the North African tribes in the fourth century DC. But these people were already there. And so the chief god of the Dogon tribe is called um. Well, let's put it like this. The people who came into North Africa came from Egypt

from the oasis of Seawell. And their god's name is the same as the as the god's name in the Dogon tribe. And I purchased in Paris a number of years ago an object made by one of the native tribes, that is the related tribes with the four tribes in Mali who have this tradition, one of whom is the Bambara. And I bought a Bambara artifact which is a perfect depiction of the ancient Egyptian dog god Anubis. But it was a

couple of hundred years old. You can buy these things very easily in Paris, these ancient artifacts of the African tribes, and so I have this ancient Bombara depiction of a nervous but they all have the ancient Egyptian traditions, you see, and the whole book was written about this. The last the southernmost of those migrating tribes are the people of Ghana known as the Akan ak n who are very numerous and they maintain in their traditions all kinds of ancient Egyptian

details. So what happened was these these people were religious, religious minority who were expelled from Egypt and they didn't like the changes taking place perhaps at the time of Akatan, who knows, and they they left Egypt. They first went to the oasis of Siwa and U, and then they just became a big tribe all over the north of Africa, and they ended up in Western

Africa. And they constitute the five tribe as follows, the Dogon, the Bambara, the Minianka, and the Bozo, the Bozo being the ones who lived by the river and fish, and then the Akhon of Ghana. Those are the five tribes descended from the ancient Egyptians in western Africa. That's fascinating. And so they claim that the beings from another world from the system of the Star series where they claim there's a planet and they know the difference between

planets and stars talk to the ancestors in the original homeland. So in other words, they would have visited Egypt, not oh my god, really present day Egypt. Well, this is what they claim, you see. Yeah, I didn't make any of this up. I'm repeating the traditions and what's known by anthropologists. You know, this is not a fantasy that I've invented. The messenger, don't shoot the messenger. No, I think it's fascinating. On the front of the most recent addition, it says new scientific evidence

of alien contact five thousand years ago. Well, in the annuals of Egyptian history. That's not that I mean, that's old, that's old kingdom, old dynasty. Does this go before that? Well, those things that go on jackets of books are not necessarily written by the author. I agree, I've had that happened to me go ahead. So we don't know when this occurred, but it seems that it did, and so we're faced with this. But the book is called The Serious Mystery because I admit that it's a

mystery. Yeah, there's no answer yet, but my hypothesis is that it is probably true that there was this visitation. So who are these people? Then have a whole chunk of the book about who these beings were, and and so on, lots of details and depictions. This is the normal. Yes, the Dogon tribe called them the normal, and um that they had fish tails, that they um that they were amphibious, that they preferred to live in the sea, but they could come out of it for a while,

but then they go back to the sea. And I discovered the same tradition existed among the Babylonians and the Assyrians, and uh, and then I

ancient Athens was meant to be founded by such a person. Even ancient China was founded by the Fushi, and his wife, who were fish tailed beings, and all over the world we have this legend that civilization as as we would consider it as being civilization, that is, you know, people growing crops and having cities and writing books and all that are commenced um with the teachers being the sort of fish people. And now were they like sort of

dolphin types, you know, they couldn't walk. They had to go about in sort of cart type things because they didn't have legs, you see. And fascinating there's even a very obscure tradition among the very ancient Greek mythological lore that Zeus himself didn't have legs, that they were joined together. And so

this permeates everywhere. And so because I like doing research into ancient cultures, and I did study a lot of that at university and I've never stopped studying it, I was able to trace that these traditions of the fish people founding earth. Civilization was all over the place and many countries, and now it have reached China from the Babylonians because we do know when my friend Joseph Needham worked out because I did a book with him, a History of Chinese Science.

Then the Chinese astronomy was based upon Babylonian astronomy. The tradition of the fish hero could have come from the Babylonians to China. I want to ask you, though, Robert, when we talk about ancient contact with alien beings, you have to look at zachary As sitchens book and the Annachi. He gives dates of four hundred thousand years ago quite regularly based on what he believes are clay tablet the interpretations. You don't actually say that in your no.

I don't go along with Sitchens dates. Also have a very strong dislike for Sitchen. He's a very unpleasant man. I don't know if he's still alive. He passed away several years ago. Well, good riddens, but you know he was very unpleasant man, really really really unpleasant man. Um and um. He sort of went way way out beyond the pale. He did seem to be able to read the table's because he was a bit scholar.

And I guess my question to you, though, is if if you're not giving, you're saying the five thousand was the publisher's subtitle for your cover, what what would you say? And we're talking about very ancient cultures. You're talking about Babylonians and Sumerians and ancient dynastic Egyptians that can go back, you know, five to seven eight thousand years. If you were to give a date for this contact, can you suggest a period of time? Is this

an earlier epic prior to written history. It's very difficult to be precise about this um because it's so little certainty about some of the standard chronologies. Anyway, I was part of an archaeometric team that did work in Egypt with the permission of the Ministry of Antiquities, and we redated various monuments, and that we discovered, for instance, that the Pyramids were older than it's conventional, but maybe like a thousand years older, that kind of time. I don't

go along with the dates the people like Shock insist on. And I've never met Shock. He's he's published some bad stuff about me, which I didn't take to be very friendly, considering we didn't even know each other. In some attacks on me all to do with this kind of subject of dating.

And I knew both All and Graham Hancock very well, and I didn't like West, but I was the first person actually ever to publish West strangely enough, because when I was editing that magazine that I mentioned when we were talking privately earlier about Fred Hoyle, back in nineteen seventy nine, I published an article by this guy called West about the Sphinx, which I myself didn't believe

in. I didn't support it, but you know, I'm not the sort of person who, as a magazine editor, only would publish things that I think are right. So I thought, let everybody say their thing, and so I actually got West going, and then he, on the basis of that, he got his book together. But of course he was quite bitter about that, because he didn't like the fact he would never admit to anybody that I had given him his first saying print about the Sphinx, especially because

I disagreed with him about the Sphinx. And I think I know more about the Sphinx than he ever did. I've written an entire book that on the Sphinx, and I've been inside the Sphinx which has a tone inside, believe it or not, and I've been in it, and I photographed it, and I found because I'm good at historical research and textual research, I was able to find I went in all the accounts of travelers visiting Egypt over the

centuries. I was able to discover continual reports of a chamber underneath the sphinx that had actually been seen and visited by people over the course of three hundred and fifty years. I published all these and they were in several languages, English, French, and German. I translated. I translated the German,

my wife translated the French. And so, in fact, as an appendix to the book we actually did together, we have everything that was ever published about the Sphinx from plenty in ancient Roman times up till eighteen thirty seven, where we had to stop because it became too voluminous, and all of that is there, all translated into English, and it saves one hundred trips to any library like the British Library or the Library of Congress, because it's all

there. And so I was able to report that there wasn't data chamber under the sphinx directly under its stomach, as it were under its midriff, which was a late chamber intruded because it was described as having hieroglyphs on the walls. And you know, in the before the Fifth Dynasty there were no hieroglyphs on the walls of structures, so it was intruded. And I'm sure it was intruded during the site period or twenty six as a tomb, but it

was sealed up and filled with concrete in nineteen twenty six. But a Frenchman hired by the Egyptian government to tidy up the sphinx for tourism, and that was the end of that, and he blocked the tunnel because there was a tunnel that went from the back all the way to the front where the priest could crawl through and speak through the mouth of the sphinx as an article.

The people would think it was the sphinx speaking and fascinating. Yeah, but I couldn't crawl very far up that tunnel because it's in danger of collapse. And the whole thing's a bit of a mess in terms of the interior,

all the spins. I'm curious, though, Robert, when we talk about the first contact and you're saying, basically, you can't there isn't a date because it's so universally reference and you're saying, these different ancient cultures talk about beings with fish tails, and there are sculptures of fishmen, and there's illustrations, and there's murals and so forth and so on. The Dogan are just one people who had had, according to you, interactions with these with these

beans. Is that your suggestion over history? Well, the only reason we know this is because the French anthropologists who published these accounts in the nineteen fifties, and I met the one, the surviving one, Madame jem and Dietro then Um, who was very much a ground dam. They got the confidence of the dug On priests who told them all this the initiatory secrets about Sirious. There's plenty of other stuff to do with the mythology that was more widely

known. But you see, nobody like that got the confidence of the Bambar. Although we know that the Bambara and the Bozone and the Minnianka all had the same tradition. But the tribe that opened up about it in great detail and drew all the pictures in the sand, because that's how they depict things, which is the ancient Greek technique. Actually, that's what Plato used to

do with his stick. He drove his geometrical diagrams in the sand. That's what everybody used to do in the old days because they didn't have paper, you see, And they're the only ones who opened up. So that's the reason why we only know about the details from the Dogon, but the other tribes have that. But then they ain't talking, and most of the priests have died out, and it's a tremendous pressure for them all to convert to

Islam now in Mali. Yeah, that's interesting that you mentioned that for the most part, there are no written records of this. It's an oral tradition. And in the book you actually show these sand drawings that represent serious and the constellations associated with the serious A and B, and this is this was handed down. Are there mathematical fairways? There's a lot of physical evidence,

m oh of all of this that goes back hundreds of years. For instance, they they are very big on being blacksmiths and they make things out of iron statues and things, and there are iron statues depicting the Normo that are three hundred and fifty four hundred years old. And there's a lot of evidence in the cave paintings. And because they live at the foot of a bas cliff and full of caves and it's all full of sacred paintings and objects and

ancient statues and things depicting all of this. So the physical evidence for these traditions, it's hundreds of years old. Okay. That leads to my next question. And I think if I remember correctly and I didn't see all of the new addition, are there images of their craft, of the normal craft that actually landed on earth. Yeah, the the Dogon do pictures, none of the craft itself, but of what it seemed like to them when they landed. It was a swirly motion that stirred up all the dust and fire

and flames coming out of the bottom. There is one picture that they did which is basically like a modern rocket that you've seal Cape Canavel today. Yeah. Yeah, it looked just like a rocket with a nose cone and everything. Um, And they say that that is one. But they are very impressed by the noise and the dust and the flames of when when the Namo would land. And then to pick this with many pictures, the crude pictures in the sand, but you get the idea, and then they elaborate on

it by talking about the picture and that's it. So the normal represent themselves obviously as the beans from another planetary system light years away from Earth. Do they actually say we are the creator gods? Oh no, no, no, no, okay, Well they call themselves the the well I'm trying to think of the French word that there is used. Um, the like the representatives. Oh they're not, they don't. They don't call the claim to be gods at all. No, no, no, no, they're absolutely

not. No. They they say they're just the messengers, and um, they work for the god, you know. So they're uh, God is called amah am m a right, and the god of um ancient Egypt at the oasis. So see what was amon am U n Amon? It's the same god and there is this one god. Okay, so the almost never

claim to the gods. No, okay. But but in this depiction that is so lively and factual, does this give us more validity for the other stories that the Babylonians, the Chinese, the Greeks and others present to us of fish men and women. Is this is the Dolgan version in your eyes, the real solid evidence of alien interactions with Earth leans Well, you know, I've given a lot more thought to all this since the last edition was

published years ago, in back in nineteen ninety eight. Um, it's very difficult to know because some of the depictions show sort of snaky type tails and some show thin tails, and they're very ambiguous, because these are beings that have some sort of strange wigly appantages. But it's very ambiguous as to precisely what's really going on. And so I've come to think more recently that it might be a kepler pod being that is, the octopus family, but a

much more highly evolved octopus. Arthur Clark once said to me that he thought that on planets throughout the universe that the predominant life forms would turn out to be octopoid, and that two legged land dwelling creatures like ourselves would be very much in the minority. And that was his opinion and stuck in my mind. And um, it may be that the the nomos were really sort of

octopoids and that this was but people couldn't quite grasp that. You know, if you've got eight legs, it's a little bit and you didn't see it yourself, but your great great great great grandfather was trying to before you see that they got a bit mixed up about exactly what was going on below the waist um. And it could have been that they were like dolphins with fish tails. But dolphins, says, you know, our mammals, they're not fish. And in the same history of whales, and they could be um

amphibious, which dolphins and whales are. They breathe air, They don't have gills and um. So there's there's no suggestion from anybody that we're literally talking about fish. When I call them fish people, I'm speaking in slang, you know. But you're describing their physicality. Well, they weren't like fish from the head up or from the waist up. You know, they've got ahead and and so on. They're not fish like, except they're lower extremities.

Everybody has trouble in ancient times and in the tribes descriptions describing what the lower extremities precisely were like. Um, except to say that they're maritime, in other words, that these were sea dwelling creatures who were not land based creatures. They might have breathed air or they might not. This is thousands of years ago. Yeah, we have these multiple attempts to describe them, which are all very similar to one another, but vary in the details of

what the lower extremities actually looked like. Bearing in mind, none of the versions that have survived are the original accounts, and everything got garbled over the millennia. We're gonna take another short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will quickly return with my guests today, Robert Temple discussing his international bestseller, The Serious Mystery. We'll be right back. My guest

today is Robert Temple. He's coming to us from England and he is discussing is international bestseller from nineteen seventy six, The Serious Mystery, the story of a story of a African tribe and their connection to off world beings known as the Nomo from the star constellation. Serious. So you're you're saying that the original texts or whatever have been transcribed over the decade, over the century.

It would have originally been oral traditions on oral traditions. Okay, this is this is all happening before there were written records, and so the written when the written records came along, they wrote down all the stuff that like on the clay tablets that the Sumerians and Babylonians had, and later they were succeeded by the Assyrians, and then the Philistines took off this tradition. And because their chief God was called Dagon dag O n and Um that was the he

was sometimes equated with the god l of the Canaanites. Most people don't realize that the famous Temple of Jerusalem, the foundations apparently at the base of the East Wall, are still the original Canaanite blocks. When David, who was the king of the Jews, who conquered Jerusalem about eight hundred BC or whenever it was um, they they took over the Temple of l which which by the way, El and Elohim which is the plural of l r in the Bible, as the name of God, one of the names of God.

This is before Yawa became popular. Um that was the the Canaanite name. And the Canaanites didn't all die the minute the Jews came. The Canaanites and the Jews need to married. This is before the Jews were so exclusive, and so the Jews who were actually from Jerusalem were all descended from the Canaanites as well, and there they had this um amphibious god Dagon, and that

was the temple of Dagon. I say Dagon, that's an English pronunciation, it would be Dogon and Um. The temple was then converted to the Jewish religion, and then of course that was destroyed by the Romans, as we know, which did not go down very well with the Jews, who were then exiled, and the terrible story of the persecution of the Jews commenced and continued. It is still going on today as we know, because anti Semitism

is everywhere. And but their temple, which is the source of such dispute between Judaism and Islam at the moment, and indeed Christianity was wants to look into. It's really on the site of and it has the foundation blocks of a Canaanite temple, which was before the Jews arrived. The Jews then became mixed, so that the Canaanites and the Jews became the same people. But then some of the Jews went above Judea up north, and they called themselves

the Samaritans. And they have slightly very variant versions of the Torah and the story of ancient Judaism before it became made into an official religion in the second century a d and codified in what they call a mishnah. It was full of all different kinds of sects who disagreed with one another. And ancient ancient Egypt at the time of Jesus two thousand years ago, contained a million Jews.

It was one third of the population of Egypt were Jews. And they had a temple, a Jewish temple in Egypt, which was larger than the Jerusalem Temple. And they looked upon the Jerusalem Jews as country cousins who were a bit simple, because the Egyptian Jews thought of themselves as very superior to those country cousins back in Jerusalem, whom they looked down upon. But I

don't want to go into all that. Yeah, let's get into the details of the Serious constellation, which I think is completely fascinating, especially in the light of nothing being written down this complex. Uh, I mean serious A and B is light years from Earth eight point six light years. Yeah. Um, how was this information transferred to them? Obviously at some point it was written down, whether any like the Ten Commandments scratched on on the walls,

details of where they were. This was what this this data that you collected in the Anthropologist ultimately where the front runners on. This is very very interesting talk about the conveyance of this data to the Dogon people. Well, of course all the Babylonian stuff would not have reached the Dogon people because that was in the Near East, and um, no Dogon went to Babylon, so that there are survivals of the same original information which popped up in different

places. So the Babylonian well originally Presumerian, then Babylonian, and then the Assyrian. Texts were written on clay tablets in a script which is called cuneiform, which comes from the Latin word cuneus, which means wedge, because they had wedges they pressed into the clay and it was wedge shape letters and that's

what it's called Kuneiform. Um. That and they have not just descriptions, but they have lots of pictures on the walls of the Babylonian temples of these beings and of priests wearing costumes with fishheads right um as part of their ceremonies. And um it's thought that the bishop's miter of Christianity comes from the us Babylonian fish god's head fish head that was worn by the Babylonian priests because it looks exactly like a minor worn by a Christian or a Catholic bishop. I

mean, I mentioned that as a rather sort of surprising detail. But this is all separate from the Dogon because it's merely the information willing up in that part of the world. The Dogon tradition would have been of Egyptian origin before the Egyptian religion became what it is that we now know. So I don't believe that any visitation could possibly have occurred later than three thousand BC, and that would be impossible. But how much before that it occurred, I don't

know. It may be that this is where the five thousand years comes from. Okay, that's like a sort of upper limit. It couldn't be any later than five thousand years ago. It could be much earlier. And this becomes very murky, and a lot of the evidence then becomes physical evidence rather than textual, because you have to study things like the pyramids, how did

those gigantic things get built? And uh, And then even with very early cultures from four thousand BC along the Nile, there's a culture that did fantastic ceramics um paper thin um never equaled until a similar ceramics were developed by the Chinese during the Sung dynasty, with hence the Sung vases and Sung bowls all the most prized of all because you can see through them. There's all kinds of evidence scattered here and there in fragments, and you try to piece this

together and come up with a picture. But it's not easy, and it's really challenged because you're trying to put things together to to cohere into some kind of Now, what you're saying is all these unusual anomalous ceramics, buildings, pyramids, and so forth may have their origins from off world beings. Well, it's not impossible, because they pop up and then they disappear, and

then there's no explanation for them, and how did they do this? There are many many technological anomalies and puzzles from antiquity, And to give you one example, I decided to focus on ancient optics and wrote a book about that called The Crystal Sun. So m ask any archaeologists before I did that? Did they have lenses in antiquity? Oh no, no, oh no,

no such thing as lens certainly not. So I started my research in my troublesome way that I do, always upsetting apple carts, and I went round the museums in different countries and I found that they had lots of ancient lenses, most of them in the basements, and I photographed them and I measured them and studied them. And I was an associate of the College of Optometrists, and I knew what I was doing, I knew how to do this.

It was all professionally done, and I did my reports with all the measurements and the focal power and all that, and I found over four hundred ancient lenses. Now, the early ones were all carved out of rock crystal, but by Roman times they mass produced them out of glass because they had the factories to that, and so you get a lot of old glass ones,

but the crystal ones are the more interesting. And I was to trace them back in different cultures and astonishing feats could be achieved with these lenses. For instance, the notorious Layard lens, which was found as an Assyrian one. I think that was about eight hundred BC a thousand BC, fairly recent,

and it was carved of crystal. And I was able to prove that It was a card for a very specific case of a stigmatism that an individual person, obviously a king, had a stigmatism, and this this lens corrected his site as astigmatic correction. Lenses are a rather complicated torotally ground. They're

not simple to make, and you got to know what you're doing. One assumes that they did this by trial and error, because we One assumes that they didn't have a modern science of how to correct the stigmatism, and they did it over and over until they got it right. I mean, that's my assumption. But this lens exists in the British Museum and I did a whole chapter just on that lens because it was so famous. And indeed it was also publicized by Eric fandanic And as coming from space and so on.

Of course, everything with Eric fandanic and everything comes from space alien. So well, he's promoting his books and he believes all this stuff. I'm sure, but he's far too extreme, and you know, everything's uh, you know, UFOs are are coming from God and all this stuff. He made life very difficult for serious discussion about all this stuff because everybody just says,

oh, Eric fand Anakin, it's all nonsense. You see, and anybody who tries to discuss these things in a more rational fashion, um is um um. It's classed with Eric Fandanigan And yeah, I've met Fandangan. He sought me out. So I want to I want to complete this discussion on this Normo. Do they say to the the dogon people were coming back at some point We're gonna be oh, yes, yes, yes, that's right, Yes, that's right. Um, you're absolutely right to mention that the

Dogon claim that the nomo will return. First of all, the Normo admit that they can't see the star. They admit they've never met a noamo. But the tradition says that the nomo will return and when that happens, it will be will be called the day of the fish, the day of the fish. Yeah, well this is the French translation of the dogone. Yeah, you could call it the day of the sea creature. And is this is this protel a certain geological change or really they will arrive from this guy,

They will arrive from the sky. Let's let's not say fish because we shouldn't be saying fish because they're not fish. The thing is that we could call it the day of the sea creature when they will return and things are going to shape up according to the way they see things. Apparently, you know, they're going to do what they're going to do, whatever that is. But they're not going to blow us all up or anything. Yeah, they're going to come back and it will be the day of the fish.

Oh yes, they go on to say, and they will rule from the waters, in other words, from the sea, where they will continue to reside. They will impose regulations upon the earth. M They're not going to kill it everybody. They're going to um, shake up the political systems. Wow, that's a that's a fascinating thought. Uh. I wonder if the say, you know, and who knows a lot of people expect something like this. So I'm I'm the messenger again, of course, a people's traditions.

I'm trying to inform the public. I'm not preaching. I'm not insisting that anybody has to believe anything I say. Um, I don't care if they If they if they just just believe everything I say, it doesn't it infect me because, um, you know, I'm not an egotist, and I don't get upset if people say you're talking a little nonsense. Well, you know, okay, they think I'm talking a little nonsense. That's their

opinion. I'm actually very tolerant of everybody's a unions. I may completely disagree with them, but I'm I tolerate and respect their views, and I understand why they think that. Yeah, people have different types of personalities and different backgrounds, and they have their views and all the plurality. No, I think you know, the book obviously landed on the world stage, and it was an international bestseller. People are still referring to it. Obviously, the

intelligence agencies were alerted just because of your background. What does this say to you about Earth Earth's ability to accept off world contact if our agencies like the CIA, the Department of Defense here in the United States, NASA, a European space agency, just can't seem to get over the themselves when it comes

to disclosure. Well, I know, I agree that there's a big disclosure problem, and I think that they have dissension amongst themselves because I've met people from NASA who are very, very sensible and and but you know that just they don't run NASA. This is the problem. And I've known a lot of really, really good people in that kind of area. But the thing is that it's who's in charge that's the problem, and there's a lot of

dissension from below or from middle levels. The trouble is that the people who actually run things are political appointees and they have political agendas. Well, I suppose that they should, because Americas a democracy, after all, and these agencies should ideally be controlled by people elected by the public. You know that principle is good, but it is I'm afraid abused a great deal and you

get bad apples, awful lot of them. You could say, Now, I wouldn't say that it was good that I was persecuted for fifty years because I wrote a book about an African tried saying they were but being from space. I mean, why should they try and destroy my life when I was a really perfectly harmless person who who just was writing a book. Well that's my question. What have you thought about it? Why would they persecute you for your research? Well, I think they do that with it's a sort

of standard default it is. They do that with anybody. I've had other friends who've been persecuted. It's not just me. I'm not a paranoid who feels I'm a victim. I know, I understand. I don't actually consider myself a victim because I expect this kind of thing. You see, I know enough about the real world to realize that these are real things that happen in the real world. I'm not. But don't you think there are regressive

policies? Wouldn't you think? And I've talked to other scientists on this program about this. When we learn that we're not the only ones in our cosmos, we automatically evolve as a specie, and to repress that is it doesn't help us at all. I hope you're right. We don't know that for

sure. But you have to realize that all the security agencies of the major countries look upon the question of extraterrestrial life as the number one security issue of the world, which it is. It is in theory it could be harmful to humanity, and they don't know. Therefore they take the ultra conservative position, which is presumably responsible, or they think it's responsible. I don't think that their behavior has has been justifiable. They obviously think that they can do

what they like because they've convinced themselves that they are the virtuous ones. Yeah, they are. They are the guardians. They're saving humanity. But of course it's all tied up with their power lust and their egos and a lot of some of them are psychopathic. Oh god, that's all we need to hear about. Yeah, there are lots of psychopaths in positions of power because they seek out power and people with no empathy or compassion, so they don't

really rate the public. They have no interest in the public. These kinds of psychopathic people. They look upon other people as things, and they don't have any empathy with the public. And they are not Democrats. Democrats, I mean they might be members of the Democratic Party, but they are they are not Democrats with a small D if you see what I mean that. I'm sure they've belonged to all the different parties. But the thing is that

when I say they're not Democrats, I mean they don't favor democracy. They are authoritarian mentalities and they think they know what's best and we should shut up, pay our taxes and get lost. Yeah. The book's called The Serious Mystery. My guest has been Professor Robert Temple. Robert Today, it's uh, twenty twenty three. What would you like the current reader the new reader of your book to get up from your what impression would you like them to

have of this work? Well, what everybody should do is combine in what I wrote in The Serious Mystery with my latest book, which is called The New Signs of Heaven, which gives a huge amount of further information, and

it's a it's about the universe being mostly plasma. As we've discussed in a previous conversation podcast, the universe is made of ninety nine point nine percent plasma out of atoms, and I go into that, and what this means is a revolution in physics, so that our physics that we have at the moment is earth based physics based on atoms. The real physics that we need as a plasma physics, and it exists partially, but it doesn't get much funding.

And the thing is that on the basis of the plasma physics, I've been able to explain how that can be a kind of cell in space which contains both our Sun and the Serious System in the same cell, and that it could become conceived of as a dusty complex plasma cell which then has long range order which would make communication between the Serious System and the solar system easier

than it would do if you're outside the cell. I mentioned this in the introductory chapter of the nineteen ninety eight series Mystery, but without knowing about Plasma at that stage. And I can now explain it according to Plasma as if you read both books, then you get a whole picture. And then anyone who really wants to go into it should look at my technical papers on research gate dot net type end Robert Temple and they're all chronologically there, okay.

And there's an article there that I did with my friend Chanter vic Gamma Singer in the journal Advances and Actor Physics about the two big clouds between us and the Moon which may be connecting with terrestrial intelligence. And I suggest that maybe what we're looking for with our study programs is misdirected and should and we should be concentrating on something else. Okay, excellent. Well, how can people read more about you? What's your website? What's your web list? E?

R. L. Well. I have a personal website, Robert dash Temple dot com. A lot of stuff, isn't there. It has about my books, and there's a lot of personal stuff of family and friends in nostalgiaal all kinds of things of that sort of people I've known who've died and whatever, and attributes to them, and and it does have my books listed, but it isn't a website that's that necessarily explaining in full about what's in

each book. But a lot of the things I published are available as downloads, masses of articles and papers, and I mean, if you really want to know all that stuff that's there, Okay, excellent. I want to remind our listeners that Robert will be at the upcoming Origins conference uh in uh November. It's in November fourth, and where's it gonna be held. It's gonna be held at Wichshire, Wiltshire. It's in in Wiltshire in England. Let me just check it. Yeah, I'm looking at it right here.

Um, yes, yes, it's on November the fourth, which is a Saturday, and it's at a place called puzy pe w se Y, Okay in Wiltshire. Um apparently near the White Horse. I've never been there. And for more information you can go to Origins Conference dot co dot uk and you can order tickets and I guess they also have your presentation title and when, what time of the day you'll be speaking, so I don't know any of that myself yet. Great, I'll speak about but I'll think of something.

Great. Hey, Robert, real pleasure speaking with you, and I want to thank you again for writing this fascinating book. We need more books like this, and I hope that what you had to say about your interactions with the intelligence community doesn't frighten off any fledgeling or new authors who are wanting

to write about similar subjects. So well, let's hope not, and we'll have to see what happens, because I think that they've been very slowly drip drip drip, trying to soften off the public for what they know perfectly well, namely that there is extrust your life, and that they've been much too slow about it. And the recent developments with what's called disclosure, very partial and fragmentary disclosure is still better than none, is a step in that direction.

But I think they're fighting among themselves. There's some people who want to get on with it and other people who don't, and they can't agree, and it's all political and it's a bit of a mess. Yeah, And there's a lot of whistleblowers that seemed to be coming out of different military, say departments, which makes it interesting when they come out and actually speak.

And there also was a famous physicist, his name is Bob Lazar, who was part of this area fifty one in Nevada that according to him, he actually witnessed various UFOs and saucer shaped vehicles that were not from Earth. So unfortunately he's had to go into Hidi. His life's probably in dangers, but well when one thing I will say is that the descriptions of these creatures called the grays, which one reads about with it's so many UFO reports, strike

me as fabricants, organic robots. Yeah, there's some people that believe that's true. I have heard that. If it exists, I think that's what they must be. Amazing, fascinating. Robert, always a pleasure. We're gonna have to have you back, and I'll look forward to speaking with you in the future. Thanks for joining me, Cliff. It's been great fun as usual, and I wish you well and I a great They admire you

and what you're doing. So much to glean from that interview. I could spend another hour or two speaking to him with that on that specific subject. You know, it's funny. He mentioned The Crystal Sun, which is a book on ancient optics, and I had an opportunity to look at it just off during the break. It is a fascinating book. I'm gonna have to talk to him about that. We had to have him come on and talk

about that book specifically. It's a huge This is an issue I'm dealing with right now, which is the belief that the Maya did not have any kind of optics whatsoever, telescopes, lenses, or anything to observe the sky. And the problem with that is that if you go to some of the observatories, there are housings, whole features within the walls that look like they could have held the telescope, and also lenses, and in number and a number

of museums i've seen raw lenses. So I think that is a huge problem that we are faced with. And so I got to get that book, The Crystal Sun. Fascinating. That book was written twenty years ago, So great fun to have, Robert. I hope that you got something out of that. Of all the ancient alien hypothesis theories and little evidence, I think that the serious mystery really is the most solid of all of them. In fact, before we started, Robert mentioned to me that Eric van Donigan had

actually contacted him and applauded him in this book when it came out. Eric's book Charity of the Gods had come out about ten years earlier. And you know, you know how I feel about ancient alien hypothesis. Anything they can't explain is an alien artifact, So that doesn't work. So this is something that's solid material for those of you who are ancient alien theorists, and I believe it's a function and I kind of do too. This book should be

in your library, The Serious Mystery. You should get it. Get the most recent version of the nineteen eighty eight version, which is, as he said, fifty percent more data that out from his research. So check it out. Good to have Robert on the program. I want to mention Earth Ancients does tours. We have a big one coming up in November. It is our ancient Maya of Tabasco and Chiapas. It is November through the seventeenth, one week. It's a short tour, but we have packed in a

ton of material. The first day is in Leventa. We all meet in Villa Hermosa, Mexico, Central Mexico, and then we bust over to Leventa, which is very close by and the world famous Leventa Museum. It's an outdoor museum. It has to be outdoors because it is filled with monstrosities. These are some of the largest volcanic heads, the omeg heads that we see,

the best collection of those. And what I'm going for are these altars, these monstrosities, these megalithic altars that we've fifty to eighty tons carved to perfection, carved with very strange beams in there holding devices and so forth and so on. Check it out if you want more information. Oh and by the way, the second day and throughout the rest of the time, we head to Chiapis for tours of Plenk bomb Pack and two or three other sites that are fantastic. Our guest is, i should say, our host is

doctor Edwin Barnhard. He will direct us. He will show us the sites that most people don't get to see. For details and more information, go to Earth Ancients dot com, forward slash tours t o u r S. We're just at the top of it. I want to take another five or six people to round it off so that we have between twenty five and thirty. Come on down, come out and join us. This is going to be great again November tenth through the seventeenth, and it is not one to

be missed. I have not been to that part of Mexico. It's in the heart of Omec Land and very close to some of the world's most fabulous currently found Mayan cities. Earthancients dot com, Forward slash Tours. If you're joint Earth Ancients, please consider becoming a subscriber. For as little as five bucks a month, you can support that we the work that we do here on this podcast, and I gotta tell you we got bills. Yeah, we got bills to pay. Whatever you can donate and makes a huge help.

Five, ten, fifteen, even twenty bucks a month are big helps to us. To become a subscriber, go to Patreon, PA t r EOM dot com, Forward slash Earth Ancients and subscribe. We got tons of e books that are presented from our guests, from our authors. Can download those. I try to put one up every thirty days, so we got a bunch. We got some unpublished galleries, some interviews, and up to date information on what's going on with Earth Ancients. We really appreciate your help.

Again. To become a subscriber, go to Patreon dot com Forward slash Earth Ancients. So I want to thank the following guests for becoming subscribers. I want to thank Lisa Wolf JJ twenty three, Robert Pugsley, Kathleen Dickinson, Karen Unger, Fernard Erlich Junior, Little Oozy, Burt, and Vic. I may have repeated a few people from the previous announcement, but hey, you guys, Rock, I really appreciate your support and please enjoy all the gifts and the things that we give away on that site. Again.

To become a subscriber, go to Patreon dot com Forward slash Earth Ancients. All right, that's it for this week. I want to thank my guest today, Professor Robert Temple, coming to us from England. As always, the team of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster and Chris Hazel and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys, Rock, I appreciate your help. All right, take care of be well and we will talk to you next time.