Here I am sitting on the beginning of the Memorial Day weekend. If you're in the United States, we get a three day weekend, kind of nice Saturday, Sunday, Monday. You know, people do barbecues and have people visit and relatives come over and you meet with friends. It's a holiday. It's a holiday in the States, and you know, we all need a holiday. We work too much. We don't take enough time off. So and I was thinking, you know, hopefully you had a chance to listen
to our thirtieth of Ury podcast with Jen Dale. Jen opened the show. Always good to talk to her. But one of the things I discovered is I, you know, I only kind of picked and chose a few people a few podcasts over the years, but one of the real regulars and a friend of mine, is Renald Carlson. And you know, I didn't put him on there. I don't know why. I just for some reason I left him out. And he is just so dynamic and such a well of
information. And I got to say this that we were talking the other day before we did the interview for today, and I was thinking, you know, how far back do we go? When did I first meet you? When we first start start to start talking twenty eighteen, so he goes way back and he's definitely one of the best of the best, consistently excellent material. Anything i'd ask him, he's got, like just again, He's just a reservoir of data and research that he has consumed and then presents it in
a very palatable manner that most people really enjoy. And so I want to just send out a praise to him. And if you're listening, Randall, this is uh praise for you and your work, and we're featuring you this week, so it all makes sense, it all works well, and I just want to remind you listeners that if you haven't heard from or about Randall Carlson, he's somebody you should get to know. I think he really is
a classic anomalist, or he really is. He looks and he can probe and extract data on a given subject that isn't typically known, isn't typically discussed, And I've been twisting his arm for a couple of years now to get a book completed. I don't know. I mean a book from him would be something like Forbidden Archaeology. If you have not seen Michael Krimo's book Forbidden Archaeology. You got to get a copy. The issue with that book is
it's over five hundred pages. It's huge. It's like a bible. It's like a dictionary of anomalies from around the world that he and Thompson put together. It's been over ten twenty years now. So Randall would be the same type of author I believe, where he would just let it go, let it loose, and just in bellish and bellish and bellish, you know so. But that being said, if you haven't heard of Randall Cross and go to Renaldcarlson dot com check out his website, and today we're going to talk
about the Younger Driest. And by the way, he is a featured presenter at the Cosmic Summit conference June fifteenth and sixteenth, Saturday and Sunday, and of course we're a media sponsor of that. But if you can't get to that conference in North Carolina, Greensboro, North Carolina, check out the streaming media. His slides presentations are so good and they're so diverse that his talks are really cutting edge because he's constantly providing slide or visual presentations to support his
material. So for more information, on that go to Cosmicsummit dot com, Forward Slash Earth Ancients and sign up for the streaming presentation. You can watch it on your laptop, your desktop, if you have a digital TV, or you have one of those systems where you can plug in your laptop or directly to the internet watch it on your TV. It's really a great way to enjoy a presentation. And I say this all the time. If and when there is a conference in your area, in your state or close by
to where you live, try to get to it physically. Graham Hancock, Robert Shock, Randall Carlson, Michael Kremo. Many of the people we have on our program are on lecture tours or they'll do seasonal lectures, and if they're not in your area, sign up for the streaming presentation. The technology now is so good, it's like you're right there. It is so good. Well, I have to say this, if the camera operator is good,
the present is gonna be good. I've seen some that are that are a little off, but for the most part, when they say live streaming, it's like you're right there, it's like you're right there. And the Cosmic Summit streaming package is fifty bucks a day. It's two, it's two days for one hundred bucks. That is cheap. It's unheard of. And if you want to see more details, go to Cosmicsummit dot com, forward
slash Earth Ancients and do the streaming. So Randall Carlson is a great, great presenter, and again his slides are excellent, and you can't see him unless you're there, so check it out, all right. So our per program today is the Younger, Driest Impact, and my guest is Randall Carlson. Marthasius is a sponsor of the upcoming Cosmic Summit that's going to be June
fifteenth and sixteenth in Greensboro, North Carolina. And one of the keynotes is returning favorite of mine Randall Carlson, who will be speaking at this conference one of those days. Render which day are you speaking? You know? Gosh darn, I think I'm you're You're there both days, right, I'm there both days and then even Monday. I think I'm doing a I think we're calling it a classroom where I'm going to be hosting a special room for people
who want to dive deeper into the subject matter. Excellent, excellent, as you know, Graham Hancock calls Rendell the rogue geologist, and his points of view are fabulous and actually open a lot of potential information that isn't typically covered at the academic level. And we want to talk a little bit about asteroid impacts. And I wanted to follow up on doctor Stephen collins book Discovering the
City of Sodom. He doesn't really describe a great deal other than the impact of this De Stroit hit, what the devastation is, but he does talk about this black matt that is in that area of Jordan, And I'm just curious, Ryannald, what do we know about the extensive damage and the range of the impact. Do you have any idea? Yeah, you know, I read doctor Collins paper last year. In fact, I think I met him at the Summit Cosmic Summit last year. I think i'd already read his
paper. It had come out around that time, and my memory of it was that it was a Tenguska like event, but perhaps even on a larger scale. And for your listeners, you know, Tenguska was the the event that happened in nineteen oh eight over Siberia on June third, and it was regionally very devastating. It was about the equivalent of a fifteen megaton hydrogen bomb
and power released. Oh wow, yeah, that's that's that would be a fifteen megaton bomb would be enough to wipe out any major urban area on Earth. It wouldn't be globally catastrophic. But it did actually have global consequences that were registered. It affected the ode zone layer, It caused repercussions, seismic repercussions over a pretty broad area. It caused air pressure pulses to move around the planet several times. But people in Europe, for example, noticed that
there were like that that evening after the event. They noticed that there was just weird lights in the sky, like over Europe, over Scandinavia, over northern Europe. They actually was so bright they could newspapers at midnight. And of course this is nineteen oh eight. There's not you know, the artificial light that you have now in urban areas, so they would have been pretty
dark. So and that was probably because Tunguska was a piece of a comet and it came in and you know, from the direction of the sun. And one of the things that you may not realize is that when a comet is moving in orbit. There is a trail which is actually material, but
then there's the tail, which is gaseous. The tail is actually its direction is determined by the solar wind, so the tail of the comet is always pointed away from the Sun. Now, in the morning of June thirtieth, nineteen oh eight, this the if you want to call it, use the generic all encompassing term buwll eyde. The bull eye came from the direction of
the sun. It was right after sunrise, matter of fact. And the object came was probably part of the Torred meteor stream which the Earth was crossing at that time of year, which the Earth crosses the Torred media stream twice each year. So if you can picture this, the object is coming from the sun. The Sun is behind it right, so the tail is streaming out in front of the object. So that means the gaseous tail came into
the atmosphere first. And I think the dominant interpretation of the light nights over Europe was because of the gaseous tail coming in before the object. And then when and the other important point about the tengoose object. And I believe this is the case for the bowlight over teal almam as well. Is it did not make ground impact. It exploded in the atmosphere. Now, I wanted to ask you about that. What's more devastating an air impact or a ground
impact? Well, in terms of radius of destruction and air impact is going to be an air impact. Yeah. In fact, it's for that exact reason that when the atomic bombs were dropped on Japan, they were set to explode in the air, not upon ground impact, because the damage is worse. The damage is worse, and the fatalities would be worse because what happens is if it hits the ground, the ground is absorbing a lot of that
energy. So seismically, you probably have more immediate effects from a ground impact. But you have to understand that the objects that Earth can encounter, there's a whole diverse variety of objects that if you can think of this cliff on the low end of the scale of density, objects are probably in the range of the same density as an ice cube right about water, which is about one grand per cubic centimeter. You go to the other end of the spectrum
and you've got more like the density of cast iron. So imagine you're holding a block, say the size of a softball that's ice in one hand, and the same sized volume of cast iron in the other hand, obviously an enormous, very discernible difference in density. Now in between there you have a whole range. About halfway through you've got the stony asteroid. So now imagine a snowball or a piece of ice, a piece of cast iron, and just a standard rock like you might pick up alongside of a creek or a
river or something. And so now you've got you've got a piece of a comet, which is going to be on the low end, low density end. You've got an iron asteroid, which is on the high density end. And then in the middle of the range you've got something that's more like you know, a standard rock, maybe three to three and a half grams per
cubic centimeter. Now, the low density objects, unless they get pretty darn big, and I think the range is right around five hundred to one thousand feet, they won't reach the ground because that low density they've fragment much sooner in the atmosphere. Now they're moving it generally at hypervelocity speeds, so as it's coming in you could almost think of it as like piling the atmosphere up in front of it, and it really almost you ever done a belly flop?
You know they've've done a belly flop. Yeah. I was going to actually suggest, if I'd known the subject matter, I would have asked you if you could go out maybe record a belly flop. But right, so you basically hit the water. It's almost like hitting a solid right but it all depends on your velocity. So on the low end you could have a
piece of ice coming in. That's really almost like a fragment of a comet, because comets tend to be mostly ice right and then once and like Tunguska, they're going to not strike the ground, They're going to blow up in the atmosphere. The Goods got most of the estimates I've seen for teen Goose Card that it blew up at about five miles up in the up in the atmosphere. Remember Charlie Abinsk, which was February, was the twenty thirteen that
that that damaged the city in Russia. You remember that, I vaguely remember thirteen or I think it was twenty thirteen it was, and that was an aerial burst and it could have been a lot more damaging. But it came in at a at a at a very oblique angle to the surface, and you can picture that. If you've got an object coming into the Earth's atmosphere at a low angle, it's got a lot more atmosphere it has to pass through than if it's coming in let's say, perpendicular to the surface. You
can picture that right. The angle is going to mean it has to traverse through a lot more atmosphere, which means then that it's going to be less inclined to hit the ground. If it's coming perpendicular, boom, it could hit the ground. But so when you get into the stony asteroids, they can hit the ground. If you you know, have you ever visited the Media Crater near Winslow, Arizona. I have. I've driven by it,
and that's one of the Media crater in Arizona. Is one of my questions for you is when those hit was what was the reaction on the Earth, because they're huge, well regionally, it was very destructive over several thousand square miles of the debris falling down, probably causing secondary fires and so on. Now this is nearly fifty thousand years ago when that happened, and that was an iron asteroid, right Tunguska was was probably a piece of a low density
comet did not strike the earth. The blast wave blew down over eight hundred square miles of old growth Taiega forest. You may have seen the pictures. I can pull some up here. You know, there's a couple of really famous ones that you see a lot of in a lot of places where you see all the trees splayed out and yeah, and the blast wave came down and basically directly below the blast everything was incinerated, but the blast came down.
In fact, there's a ring of trees around that zone of incineration where all the branches have been stripped off, and it's just almost like a ring of telephone poles. Then outside of that, the blast wave moved out horizontally,
and that's where all the trees splayed outwards. So you can actually from the aerial reconstructions of the blast zone, you can determine pretty much right where the epicenter of the aerial blast was now eight hundred square miles like here were I lived near Atlanta, Georgia, and a lot of the major urban areas have perimeter highways around them, interstates that circle around them, Atlanta, Washington, d C. Do we have it here in the San Francisco Bay area
too, Yeah, right, Okay, so in Atlanta and in Washington. I've looked at three or four of the cities. The area within the Perimeter Highway is roughly the same size as the area of destruction of the Tenguska detonation that occurred in nineteen oh eight. Now, there were people living within say, forty to fifty miles of the blast, who witnessed, witnessed the fiery
object coming in, witnessed the blast, who were not killed. But there were people within twenty miles thirty miles of the epicenter who were like blown off their feet or just blown off their feet. Pardon me, Were they killed or don't? No, No, there's no evidence of anybody being directly killed by the blast, although Agusta, Okay, there were reindeer herders that perhaps got killed, but there was there's no record of it. There's no definitive
evidence of anybody being directly killed. But apparently several people died in the aftermath from injuries, like one elderly fellow who was when the blast wave hit him. He was pretty far removed, so I mean he wasn't immediately killed, but he was blown like twenty or twenty five feet into a tree and suffered injuries that maybe he died from. There was a whole reindeer herd that was
incinerated without a trace. But my understanding of the tele al Hamam event was that it was larger than Tangusta, but it still would have been a regional catastrophe. So, in other words, to our knowledge, no one was directly killed by the Tenguska event of nineteen oh eighth, and it was not really even explored and discovered by the scientific world until the late nineteen twenties when Leon and Kulik, very intrepid scientist and made a brutal journey to find the
find the site. And there is an interesting story. It would make a very interesting Maybe a documentary has already done, but you can do a movie of that because the journey that he made to find that place was quite extraordinary.
Is is there an understanding now that perhaps Earth and it's cosmos these other planets are cyclically or psychlically moving into asteroid belts at some period of time, like every three or four thousand years or something, because in a minute, I gonna ask you to explain this black matt that is very prevalent in the US, but it's also in other parts of the world that can be dated
when there are asteroids asteroid hits that are that are terminating. So what do we know about passing through I guess you could call them asteroid belts or or well, okay, actually we aren't. We don't pass through the asteroid belt. That's a zone between Mars and Jupiter which is filled with asteroidal debris. However, there are Apollo asteroids that do. That's a special class of asteroid and they do cross the Earth. Now we mentioned earlier, I mentioned that
the Tenguska object was probably a member of the tored media stream. Now I can and I can pull up some graphs here in a minute. So what's the Torren meteor stream? What's that? What is that something that we actually passed through every thousand years or something. No, we passed through it twice every year, twice a year. Yes, so this must be why there's these groups that are being developed that are somehow preparing us for How the hell
do you prepare for an asteroid I don't know. Oh, I'm not sure what they're not. Well, I mean, I mean you would prepare you probably as you would for any environmental catastrophe. But yeah, I mean there's so many variables. You know, depends on the size, it depends on
the composition, it depends on where in the world. I mean, a Tenguska type of vent would be regionally devastating, okay, and it would kill I mean, if you had a Teguska sized event over a major urban area where in the planet, let's say the East coast of the United States, over La over San Francisco, you would have probably several million fatalities. Yeah, but it wouldn't be a global catastrophe. Now, at what point do
you get to the where you've got global consequences. You're probably looking at now a picture of this. The Tunguska object was estimated to be one hundred and twenty two one hundred and fifty feet in diameter. The object that struck Arizona and created the famous media crater outside of Winslow was about the same size. Right now, the difference between the two again, and this is important emphasize, Arizona Bowl Eyde was iron it struck the ground. Kingusca was low density,
probably more like cometary ice blew up in the atmosphere. So with the Arizona object, it leaves this big crater in the earth that's now They're still there fifty thousand years later, another couple of centuries. You wouldn't know that the Tenguska object, that the Tenguska event even happened. If a Tenguska event happened five hundred years ago, one thousand, two thousand, and three thousand years ago, the evidence would probably be primarily oral traditions survivors of it taw
and that's and it would find its way. Just One of the interesting things about the Tenguska event is it spawned a new religion amongst the Tungusi tribes. People up there, they believe, they believed now that they were being punished by the god of fire called Ogdy and the area was cursed that no one was even allowed to go there. And when Kulik I think made his first trip there in I believe it was nineteen twenty seven, he found one of
the Tenguzi tribesmen to eyed him to the place. To the great consternation of his fellow tribesmen, and when he came back, my understanding was that they killed him for bringing an outsider into this person place. But so in terms of the damage, I mean, at what point do we get to say global scale events. Now Kunguska Barringer Crater in Arizona regionally devastating, but not
globally. So if you're not you know, think of this. When that objects struck Arizona, which was not, of course Arizona the state, the consequences, the radius of that destruction was probably twenty to thirty miles out from the point of impact. Anything within that range probably would have died. So it's like an atomic bomb. Yeah, it would be like a well more like a hydrogen bomb walking up in the megaton range of devastation rather than the
kilo ton range. So yeah, I mean, if you blow off a fifteen megaton hydrogen bomb over La, you'd have millions of casualties, but not counting the effects of the radiation cloud, you wouldn't have you wouldn't have casualties anywhere else. Now, at what point does an object get large enough to become globally devastating. Well you could argue about that, but certainly by the time it would get to a thousand to two thousand feet in diameter. Now
you're talking about global consequences. Now an object is I say a thousand feet in diameter fifteen hundred feet in diameter. And I've worked out a lot of this with some of the various near misses we've had in recent times, you would have, say devastation on the size of a state like Oregon or Nevada. You could have that where everything is totally wiped out right, Everything within that range of you know, one hundred miles is going to be pretty much
destroyed. People are not going to be instantly killed any outside that range of destruction. However, there will be global environmental consequences for example, like as a parallel, you know, you have you have debris thrown into the atmosphere very much like what happens during a great volcanic eruption and back. We can use this as as a parallel. In eighteen sixteen, it was called the
Year without a Summer. Now, what happened there, It was a series of volcanic four volcanic eruptions between eighteen nine and eighteen fifteen, and before it would the volcanic debris would clear out from the atmosphere. From one volcanic eruption, there would be another one. It also happened at a time during a solar minimum, so it was already a cool time because of a relatively inactive sun. But you had these closely spaced. Three of them have been identified,
they know where they were. The last one, which was probably the biggest one, was Tambora, which is down in Indonesia, and it was a devastating volcanic eruption and the result was that the atmosphere became overloaded with volcanic dust and sulfur dioxide things that's going to reflect the sunlight back out to space, creating it more difficult for the solar heat to reach the Earth. So the following summer eighteen sixteen was called a year without a summer, and it
was extremely cold all summer. There was frosts in the northern hemisphere every month of that year, and in fact there were three attempts to grow crops. They all failed because of the cold weather, cold and damp, which was a direct result. Nowh historian referred to this as the last Great subsistence crisis of Western civilization. The summer of eighteen sixteen, and you had famine that
was caused by the crop failures. So now these were secondary consequences of the volcanic eruptions that even though there were people, like when Tambora exploded, it completely wiped out the culture on the island down there in Indonesia, but it didn't immediately affect the rest of the planet. However, within the next year to two years, then that's when you begin to see the secondary effects of that volcanic eruption. And yes, you had many, many people starved to
death because of the failure of crops. Now this can be referred to and has been referred to as a volcanic winter, very similar to a cosmic winter. A large enough cosmic event, or if you have a multiple impact event, will do basically the same thing. It'll charge the atmosphere with reflective dust. It'll create a shroud that will eventually circulate around the entire planet, causing
a cooling, and then that will have a series of secondary consequences. So the total mortality would be many times greater than the immediate mortality in the the zone of the impact. So that's the thing that we have to be looking at now in older models that I think are basically obsolete, you're looking at determining what is the rate of which Earth is impacted or bombarded by these things.
And so initially that rate was determined by crater counting. Okay, So in other words, you look at that crater in Arizona, the big deep pole in the ground, it's obvious it's a crater right now, somewhere getting in the vicinity of about two hundred craters have been counted. The term is also astroblem, which means star wound, So an astorbleam is not necessarily evident from the surface, like the Medior craters. You look at it, there's
clearly a gigantic hole in the ground. There's other craters as big as Medior Crater in Arizona. No Media crater is in Arizona. Yeah, but I mean, are there craters as big as that in around the world? Oh yeah, yeah, oh really? Oh yeah right, Oh no, they're craters around the world that are much bigger than that. Wow, they're not they're not as obvious, but they're huge. I mean, I can pull up and show you some. I mean, you've got a lot of them.
You know, the older ones they get buried under sediment. Yeah, there's one body you and Virginia's Chesapeake Bay, Yeah now that yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a there was an impact in Chesapeake Bay around thirty five million years ago. Was that terminating or just uh locally devastation? Well, no, that was that could have been that would have had global effects because it was the crater as I recall, the Chesapeake Bay crater is Virginia.
Yeah, fifty miles in diameter. Maybe. Oh that would have been a mess. Oh yeah, that would have been a mass. That would have been a huge mess. And you know there is like over here, there's the fern Bank Science Museum not far from where I live, and they
have a displayer. They used to have a display of tech tights there that were all picture when that when a bow eyed an asteroid strikes the Earth, there's so much energy released in the mediate area it vaporizes, then a little bit further out it liquefies, and that stuff is thrown up into the atmosphere and when it rains back out it assumes these aerodynamic shapes and it falls to the Earth and forms everything from microsphirals to microtech tights to macro tech tights that
you can actually hold in your hand. And a tight is a an object that has been heated to an extreme level. Yes, and when it comes like in Jordan where Collins was, pottery has this glaze on it, which is the melted sand onto this clay. I guess because they didn't have they
didn't have glazes back then, they didn't have high heat kilns. What they show is these pottery bits with glazes on them because because the heat was so intense that the whatever it was painted on him turned into hardened stone, which is yeah. So so the I guess where I was going with this is that when we crater count you're only counting the drest impacts into the earth. So let's just use the round number of two hundred craters that have been identified.
Most of those are going to be in the relatively populated areas of the world. You know, there are things, you know, there's now discoveries of impact craters under the Antarctic ice cap. We're discovering more craters, you know, on the bottom of the ocean, but we don't have that. The two hundred craters that have been counted probably comprise fifteen maybe twenty percent of the Earth's surface. So if we had an accurate inventory of impacts over the
whole Earth's surface. Now, remember ocean. If you've got two miles of ocean, you know what are you going to have. Well, if you've got an object that's half a mile in diameter moving at hypervelocity speeds it strikes the ocean, it's going to create huge tsunamis that spread out. If it's big enough and fast enough, it can penetrate the water column and actually excavate a crater type hole on the bottom of the ocean. However, the ocean
water it's called the resurge wave. The ocean water rushes back in right because you can picture you comes in, it strikes the ocean though it opens up almost like a would be called a transient crater. Then the water rushes back in. When it rushes back in, it's charge supercharged with sediment. So the water rushing in like typically normally on a larger impact, you have a raised rim, and when that water rushes in, it's going to obscure the
rim and it's going to flush huge amounts of sediment into the crater. So that's gonna make it much more difficult to identify the crater. Okay, here's
what I'm getting at. If you've got two hundred craters now that have been identified around the planet that are impacts into the Earth, impacts into the Earth, right, and that's twenty of the surface of the Earth, then you can you can infer from that that that within that same time range, there's probably been a thousand impacts now of similar uh similar Now you're remember crater counting impacts into the Earth leaves a big scar that you can see. There are
tens of thousands, even millions of years later. Conguska event, no crater right read you know, locally devastating. But here's the thing. If if if you had a Tenguska event from three hundred or four hundred or five hundred years ago, the devastated the forests, and there is some evidence that this may be has happened, come a few centuries later, you're not going to have the obvious evidence of that impact. Forests are going to regrow, the
flattened trees are gonna are gonna decay away. And how are you going to know unless it enters into oral history or local myth and legend right here. Here's the thing that needs to be appreciated. The iron type objects that strike the ground and leave craters that you can count later. They're in the They're at the low end of the proportion of objects. The lower density objects are
much more frequent. So you could almost say that for every impact that leaves a scar leaves a crater in the surface of the Earth, there's perhaps a half a dozen events more like Tenguska that do not are just as devastating, but don't leave the obvious impact scar in the earth that can be counted. We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, Randall Carlson, discussing
the younger Driest impact. Will be right back Jackson got Jackson on nine poson Oh maybe I don't do lanted you you must do the same or you're not it no moderate of delic get not bon catof bon my genil star and Renald Carlson is my guest today. He is talking about the younger drives impact, the death of the what they call megafauna, the large animals weighing over one hundred pounds and more that were destroyed that were wiped out in North America and
around the world. He is a featured presenter a keynote presenter in the upcoming Cosmic Summit conference June fifteenth and sixteenth. You can get more information by going to Cosmicsummit dot com. Forward slash Earth Ancients. So what do we know? I mean because I was when I was reading Colin's book on this Jordan
area. There's scars, the city's melted, the walls are melted. Yeah, yeah, But do we have any other ancient civilizations that are having these kinds of impacts that are being devastated to the point where everyone in a radius is dead as well as the Mega fon Quite certain, and there is other evidence. I mean, here's the thing. This is not something that people have been, you know, looking for until in the last couple of decades.
You don't look for it, You're not going to find it. But we know that numerous civilizations have met you know, the whole Bronze Age collapse. What was that about? What happened there? Well, certainly we know
there was drought. But see, here's the thing, just like with volcanoes, impacts can have these secondary consequences on the environment, on the weather, on the climate, and you might be looking at, oh, yeah, there was a there was some kind of an extreme climatic event without necessarily connecting it with a volcanic eruption or a cosmic impact. See, so we're kind of this is kind of a new paradigm here. I mean, it's been
obviously accelerating ever since the nineteen eighties. I think the turning point was nineteen eighty when you had three independent publications all postulating that the KT boundary the dinosaurs were killed off sixty five million years ago, was caused by an impact, and that ignited a firestorm of controversy. But it's not nearly as controversial now because you know, the evidence has been pretty much overwhelming that yes, there
was a great asteroid impact at least one. Personally, I think that there was probably a clustered period of bombardment, and some of the early critics weren't thinking in terms We're still thinking in the old terms that impacts are just single, isolated random events. Right. Well, there's a whole school of thought, and I think it's supported by considerable evidence that there are epoch there are
bombardment epochs where the Earth is in a period of susceptibility. It's traveling through a region of space that's more densely populated with cosmic debris, and you might have these secondary I mean, you might have initial impacts. You might have. For example, we talked about the Tord media stream. The Earth crosses the Toward media stream late June early July in the summer, and it crosses at the peak in the fall, right around Halloween. Okay, so it's
the Tord media stream, is sometimes referred to as the Halloween meteors. Right. Well, there's a stream. You got a picture Sun Jupiter, right, and there's this stream, this elliptical orbital stream of this cometary debris circling the Sun, and it lays pretty much in the plane of the ecliptic, which is the Earth's orble plane. So the Earth crosses that stream twice each year. Now, remember all meteor streams are the debris of disintegrating comets.
Right, So, once upon a time there was a large comet. It came from the outer zone, maybe the Kuyper Disc, and it probably was the Kuyper disc because the Kuyper Disc of comets lays in close to the orbital plane of the planets. So if something sends one of those Kuyper disc comets sunward, it begins to activate and in that process it begins to fragment and it litters. It's almost like you're driving down the road, right, and then down the road ahead of you is a dump truck with a bunch of
debris blowing off of it. Right now, your car plows into that debris and boom, you have a catastrophe. Right, But it's kind of like that, except think of now, of a racetrack. The comet comes in, it begins to disintegrate. Well over time, the byproducts of that breakup, which could be millions of pieces, will spread out and eventually kind of become uniform around the whole track, the whole orbital track of the comet. Right, But in the early stages of breakup, that material is going to
be generally in a clump. And so here's another analogy I like to use. Imagine that you've got a big race track and there's cars going around it, and you've got another country road that crosses that track, and you're in a car cliff. You're driving along and you got some tunes on and there's no other traffic, and you know, yeah, I mean something could happen. You could fall asleep at the wheel and go off the road, and that would be a catastrophe. Right Now, you come up to an intersection
and you've got to cross the intersection. There's no stop signs, no lights or anything there, right, so you just sail through that intersection now for it. You're out near La So obviously you know if you're if I'm driving around here and it's four am rather than four pm, that I'm crossing this highway, blindly crossing this highway, well my probabilities of having a crash are going to be much greater at four pm then at four am, right,
Okay, So that's part of it. The timing is critical in looking at impact phenomenon. So if you've got a breakup of a comet, it's littering its orbital path. Earth crosses that orbital path, like in the case of the Torrents twice each year. Okay. So the question then is are you how dense is the material at that intersection when the Earth is crossing. Now, if the materials another part of the orbit, we might safely get through. Nothing happens except maybe you know a nice media. You go out and
you see shooting stars, you see shoots, you see shooting stars. You're not The Earth's not getting bombarded by something hundreds of feet or even a kilometer or more in diameter. Right, However, it's likely that there are mile wide objects within the Torrent stream. We're just lucky across it twice every year and we're not crossing the stream. We're not going through that intersection. At the same time, a half mile asteroid or piece of a chunk of a
comet is there. Well, that was my question to you, is have we imaged this torred meteor stream to see if there's some terminating size asteroids or you know, can we shoot a rocket at one if they get to be too big so that it gets blown to bits. I mean, I don't know what our strategies in the United States right now if we're facing an asteroid that impacts well, we could say this with one confidence, there are asteroids and things out there that will strike the Earths. Again, we don't know
when. I mean, the one coming up in later this decade is going to make a very close by. It's not going to strike. Hear is going to be very close. Yeah, it'll come to me in a second. But then becoming that close to the Earth, its orbit might be deflected to where when it comes around again in the two thousand and thirties, it could be an impact. Now that would be a global catastrophe. So we've actually we've actually identified specific asteroids that will be coming into our orbit at some
point. Yeah, yeah, really, yes, it's amazing. So does NASA have a group that's kind of like the Asteroid Watch Team or something? Well, yes, and you know that recent what was it the recent rendezvous with an asteroid to test whether or not we could nudget into a new orbit. Oh right, yeah, yeah, yeah you remember that. Yeah, well that was that was last year, I think, yeah, yeah,
it was recently, Yeah, that is Yeah. I mean we're but to me, we need to accelerate our response capabilities to an impending catastrophe like that, because you know, one of the things I do is I pretty much try to keep track of near misses, and there have been so many cliffs in the last few decades that it's getting hard to count them. Define define a near miss Randall is that when you're saying near miss. Are you tracking terminating hits or are you just tracking all the hits all of none of them
are hitting, They're all zooming by out there. No. But what I'm asking is is you're well, you're saying near miss. What's that refer to? A thousand miles off the Earth more than I mean, we're talking astronomical dimensions, so we're lastically, we're generally talking, you know, within several lunar distances of Earth, and that would constitute a near miss. But there's there's a lot of them, a lot of them that have happened in the
in the recent years. Sooner or later, one of them is gonna strike the Earth. We just don't know. We haven't identified those. The one I'm thinking of, I don't know why it's escaping my mind. The one that's gonna threaten the Earth in twenty twenty eight. Really, Yeah, we've identified one asteroid that is in deep space that is headed in our way, our way. Yeah, I don't want to but it's not it's gonna it's not gonna strike the Earth. It's just gonna come close to the Earth.
Okay, let's see it. A steroid. Jesus Christ I think it's twenty twenty eight. Let's see that would be Let's see one day ago we have next five asteroid approaches from the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Apopus. That's the one, right, Okay, So asteroid Apophus will swing past Earth in twenty twenty nine. Could a space rock collision make it hit us? Even now that we know it's on course to miss us by a safe margin, astronomers remain
vigilant. It's the asteroid. We can't stop watching. So twenty twenty nine. So does it have a tail that might interact with us? Or no? Well, no, it's an asteroid. Oh, it's an asteroid. It could be debris from it, if it's if it's fragmenting, let's see it says it's most likely. Isn't something to worry about. However, what happens is it swings by the Earth. Its orbit could be be affected to where a subsequent orbit around it could be on a collision with the Earth.
So yeah, On April thirteenth, twenty twenty nine, the space rock is scheduled to approach Earth, coming within twenty thousand miles. Now that's well within the Earth. That's only one tenth of distance to the moon. And that is Yeah, how big is this How big is this stone? It is is not like a small earth, Jesus Christ. It's a thousand feet wide.
That's pretty big. That's big enough to have global consequences. Really, that would wipe out an area of an you know, instead of like a couple of counties like Tenguska was eight hundred square miles, this would be on the size the scale of an entire like a state the size of Pennsylvania or Oregon or Washington being completely obliterated. And then there would be a whole host
of the secondary consequences that would result from that. There would be fires, there would be dust launched into the atmosphere, so it's like a bomb. And the impact the remember reverbed, I can't even reberate. Yeah, it reverberates to the point where it just shuts everything down and destruction has great destruction. Well, it would have great destruction. There would be global consequences, There would be economic consequences. You know, an event like that, if
obstruck the Earth would probably take literally several decades to recover from. Wow, can you talk a little bit about the uh, this black mat that shows burning of the earth I guess thousands of years ago, and the importance of the black mat a little bit well, Okay, so there are multiple examples
of a black man and it's the result of a number of processes. There's particularly a black matt associated with the lower Younger Driest boundary that's just under twelve nine hundred years ago, and it apparently has a lot of soot in it. That's one reason that's black. But there are multiple examples of these black mats that can form under certain environmental conditions. But this particular one has been studied and it goes back to the early two thousands when paleontologists noticed that a
lot of the MegaFon of that went extinct. Their remains were being found below, oh, the black mat, but not above the black mat. Right now. The other thing that happened was climb paleo climatologists, people who study ancient climate, noticed that right at the black mat there was a major climate shift and the ice age had been ameliorating for about three thousand years. We were in the depths of a deep cold ice age between fifteen and twenty thousand
years ago. Around fifteen thousand years ago or a little after, the planet began to warm, and over the next roughly three thousand years two five hundred years the warm the warming caused the ice sheets to start shrinking back as the ice seat sheets sunk shrunk back. That melting of the ice sheets caused ocean level to begin to rise. During the depth the colder steps of the ice age, called the late Glacial maximum, sea levels were at least four hundred
feet lower than they are now. So one of the things that was noticed was that there was a major shift in the climate, Like after the climate was gently warming for a couple of thousand years, it suddenly reversed turned cold, really cold. Within a couple of years, a couple of thousand years of gradual warming was completely erased, and now the planet went into what's called the younger dryas, which is named after a polar wildflower that likes cold weather.
Right, so when the weather turns warm, if you're in like it was first discovered in northern Europe and it was associated with it liked to grow near ice sheets, right, so cold weather, So you have the dryas Octa patella, which is the name of a polar wildflower. Right, so when you see this particular flower growing in an environment, it tells you something
about the temperature of that environment, tells you it's cold. Then suddenly the uh, this particular flower disappears and it's replaced by plants that are more love the warm weather rather than the cold. Okay, so what happened was is you had now biota or flora that liked the warm weather because of the warming. It was two periods called the Bowling and the all Rode. And during this warming period, the the the dryest octopetala flower disappeared right at the date
of the black mat. It suddenly came back again. I mean suddenly, like like the climate flipped within a matter of a few years from this warming into full glacial cold. So now you have two things, Cliff, that are that are seen here associated with that black man. The extinction of megafaunal species and a major climate shift. Well, what this did was led some researchers to want to say, Okay, what is this black mat. It's
some kind of a boundary layer. Let's take a closer look. So they did, and what they found was at the bottom of this black mat they found impact proxies in abundance such as microspherals. Now, one of the things associated going back to Tenguska, you have this air burst, right, so you had this vaporization. Now, when you get into the more macroscale and you have melt by products raining back to the earth, this forms the tech
types, right. But when you have the vaporization cooling and falling back to the earth, it forms microspherals, little microspherrals they fall to the earth, and in fact, in tree rings in Siberia, in the region of Tunguska, they found embedded microspheral that resulted from the Tenguska aerial detonation, they found very similar microspherals at the base of the black mat. Now, the black
MAT's been identified in numerous places around the US. Now, the third thing that makes that particularly interesting is for the three to four hundred years leading up to the deposition of the black mat, which has now been labeled has been dated at like I said, just under twelve nine hundred years ago. The third thing that happened was in that three to four centuries leading up to it, you had a pretty active culture in unglaciated North America. That's called the
Clovis culture. We find their encampments, their settlements, their quarries, their refuse pits, like fifty sites that were occupied occupied by the Clovis culture. They disappeared right there at that same boundary. We don't know what happened to them. But so you've got the sudden disappearance of the Clovis culture. You've got the mass extinction of megafauna, like the last gasp of megafauna. Now you've got this major shift, this turning of the climate from the encroaching warmth
back to the full glacial cold that lasted for almost thirteen hundred years. That was the span of the Younger drives. So this black mat is very interesting. Now there are other black mats and they're not associated with impacts, but this particular one seems to have an abundance of soot charcoal, and there's evidence that there were major fires raging in the immediate aftermath. And then you have this deposition of these impact proxies, Like an impact proxy is something you know
that's a secondary consequence. It's kind of like if you go to a crime scene and there's two types of evidence. There's fingerprints. See the fingerprints, you know, you don't look and see fingerprints. There's footprints of the perpetrator making a hasty escape, right, and you see the footprints. So that's kind of like a macroscale. You can see the footprints and you know, okay, here's evidence. You don't see the fingerprints without technological enhancement, right.
Well, impact proxies are generally the same way. You have things like nanodiamonds, magnetic grains, microspherals. You're not going to see those in the eye. But if you take a sample and you look under a scanning electron microscope, boom, you see this stuff. It shows up right, and there it is and you can see it clearly and associated with the bottom of
that black mat is our abundant nanodiamonds, microspherals and so on. So something blew up and charge a portion of the earth, is what you're suggesting. What I think happened. I think you had a multiple impact event. I think that you know in the most likely candidate would have been debris. At this point, the most likely candidate that has been proposed would be remnants of
the great comet that broke up and spawned the tourred media stream. And this is at the end of the Younger driat this is a beginning of the Younger dry at the beginning and you're set, you're suggesting the date at what was the date of the period, just under twelve nine hundred years ago? Okay? And is that a partial event or is it a terminating event? Well, I mean it terminated the globus culture. It terminated you know, we
see again we see a megafonal extinction. There was there was in the period leading up to it. There was a major species loss around the whole planet. Now, was all of it directly attributable to this one particular event.
No, I don't think so. However, it seems like there was already several mass mortality episodes prior to the actual Younger Dryest event, And the Younger Dryest event was kind of like the Coup de gras, and because there was many many species that did not make it across that boundary that died off. And in fact, there have been remnants remains of megafonnel species where the black matte material is draped right over carcasses. So it's like they died directly as
a result of that event. Wow, right, Yeah, So for you know, wooly mammoths, for saber toothed cats, giant ground slaws, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, it was a terminating event for sure. Now, the density of mortality was not uniform around the planet, but North America seemed to be ground zero and South America was very very close. Western Hemisphere seemed to have suffered the greatest damage, So North America. If you go back to the Late Pleistocene and to get a relative chronology here, the
Pleistocene lasted about two and a half million years. It ended at the beginning of the Holocene, and that is dated eleven six hundred years ago. That's the end of the Younger Dryas, right, The Younger Dryas lasted between twelve hundred and thirteen hundred years. It began the bottom of it, the beginning of the Younger Dryis. Remember in round numbers, let's just say twelve nine hundred years. The end of the Younger Dryas was about eleven thousand, six
hundred years ago, so about thirteen hundred years. And now we know at the end of the Younger Dryis there was a major melting event of the glaciers, because it's been documented that there was a rapid sudden run of sea level
rise at eleven thousand, six hundred. Eleven thousand, six hundred has now been designated as this boundary between the Pleistocene, which lasted two and a half million years, and the Holocene, which is the last eleven thousand, six hundred years, during which modern civilization as we know it emerged and we came out of you know, barbarism where they you know, and prior to that,
the assumption is it was foragers and hunter gatherers. Is there evidence of subsistence farming, maybe some scattered here and there, but it was mostly going to be small bands of hunter gatherers. Clovis would have fit this definition. Clovis disappeared. If we look at the number of species that inhabited North America at the end of the Last Ice Age compared to the let me define a megafaun of species. It's any animal over about one hundred pounds in body weight,
which is about forty four kilograms. So you, Cliff Dunning, would qualify as a megafaunal spech, a megafaun of creature. Yes, so you could that can yeah, so yeah, you could consider yourself from this point forward, going forward that you cliff, are a megafaunal species. But here's the thing. North America lost three quarters of its megafaunal species. There were more elephants in North America than are in Africa. Now, oh, really, like the African elephant was in North America or no? No, not?
The African African elephant is a species of probocidian, the Indian elephant. But there are two different species of elephants. Wow, But there were four species of Probocidian meaning long, that meaning they have a trunk trunk. At Columbian mammoths, you had your your wooly mammoths. You had mastodons, You had the aial mammothis imparac They were each individual species of mammoth. They're all gone, all of You had ground slaws that were the size of elephants.
They're gone. You had beavers that were the size of black bears. They're gone. You had the giant short faced bear that could stand ten or twelve feet when it was on its hind hind legs, its shoulders were six feet off the ground. This was the apex predator of the Late ice Age. It's gone. You had Ursus spalius, the cave bear, big huge, They're gone. You could go down the list. North America lost about seventy
five percent of its megafonnal species, so did South America. Your Rasia lost about thirty five percent, and Africa only lost about ten to twelve percent. What would this tell you if you start thinking about it? What would that tell you? Cliff that the devastation was in North America? Yeah? Yeah, and higher elevation. Yeah. Well, and what would be what would area of the planet would have the lowest devastation? Was Africa? Yeah?
Because number one, the loss of species is going to be directly related to destruction of habitat. Even if animals were not directly killed by impacts, if you had a drastic climate change, like, what would happen? Imagine this now, what would happen if all of a sudden the planet went back into ice age conditions and the temperature, the average temperature where you're at right now,
dropped by ten to fifteen degrees. What would happen? Well, first of all, all of the plant life that is adjusted to the climate, adapted to the climate there now would die off. Right. So again you've
got to consider that there are these secondary consequences. Now in the immediate aftermath of an impact, Yeah, you're going to have devastation, but there's going to be a whole slew of secondary consequences, feedbacks that happened that is going to cause continued die off, continued mortality, maybe years in the aftermath. So that's kind of what we're looking at. There was a major climate shift and the climate went ten to fifteen degrees fare andhight colder within possibly one year.
So a lot of species, if they weren't killed directly by impacts, they died as the secondary consequences of the climate change that occurred in the immediate aftermath. You know, it's funny, Ran we haven't even talked about Graham's contention that there's probably great evidence below four hundred feet on the coastal parts of different continents of civilizations, you know. And then we get into the whole Atlantis question. What happened to Atlantis? Did it exist or was it destroyed
in a cataclysm? As Plato writes, it's just a fantastic topic that we can't spend any more time on today. I want to remind our listeners. Randall Carlson will be at Cosmic Summit June fifteenth and sixteenth. I tried to find your topic of discussion. George Howard, the producer, said, well, Rennold will be talking about catastrophic events, but can you give us any
details or is it still formulated in your mind? To be quite truthful, it's still formulating, I mean, because there are so many late listen, Cliff, there are so many interesting things happening right now in later discoveries. But yes, I'm pretty much I've got a general idea. I'm going to be presenting, you know, the ideas of some of the latest ideas on global catastrophes, cycles of change and where we might be in those cycles,
if they're real, Are they real? Are they not real? What effects of these what are the implicationations for the recognition of global catastrophes as far as ancient civilizations? And one of the things I'm researching right now is called the uh the Emian period. It's also associated with a certain phase of oceanic change called marine isotope stage five E, which I'm sure you've you've read many articles on that, right Cliff. Well, okay, so I'm talking to you
about that stuff, my friend. No, Okay, So if you look at the last roughly quarter million years, let's say two hundred and fifty thousand years, the Holocene that we're in now is relatively unusual in terms of I mean, we're really enjoying a rather benign climate right now. We're we're in a period of interglacial warmth. And it's totally within the framework of this interglacial warmth that I think we have been able to we have been able to create
civilization. Now, the foundation of any civilization is food. You've got to be able to eat, are you? And you're probably not gonna be able to build a civilization if your primary mode of nutrient intake, of caloric intake is hunting gathering. Once you get an agricultural base, though, now and you can begin to feed a lot of people. The two things you need
to have to build a civilization is leisure time and division of labor. Okay, So you get into building a civilization, and we can see if we look at the hallmarks of what we consider civilization, let's say agriculture, Well, most agricultures dated to have begun and in the shift from migrational lifestyles foraging and so forth, to sedentary lifestyles occurs around ten thousand years ago. Well, think about this is like within a millennia or two in the aftermath of
the younger Driyas. Right, So what we see is we see the beginnings of agriculture between seven and ten thousand years ago. We see the dispersion of languages. If you look at like linguists who are looking at the evolution of languages will carry it back to around ten thousand years ago. We see the first urban complexes showing up around eight thousand, nine thousand years ago. So what we see is we see the first efforts to establish civilization and they're aborted.
Really, I mean, you look at the number of destructions of previous civil We started our conversation talking about tal Alhamam. There's a good example of a cultural center of the Middle East that was utterly wiped out in a catastrophe of some kind. Now, the earlier versions was it was wiped out because of warfare, right, which of course you would consider a catastrophe, But the evidence now points that it could possibly have been an aerial burst along the
lines of Tunguska. Right. So, now we've had a series of during the early Holicy let's say between six and nine thousand years ago was a period called the climatic optimum, where temperatures were warmer than now, sea levels were higher than now, You had the growing season which was longer, and you had the agricultural elevation moving up by hundreds of feet. What this meant was that agriculture became a really viable way, a lifestyle LifeWay. You had a
long growing season, there was lots of rainfall, it was warmer. This is important that people need to take away. It's warmer than now. And it used to be called the climatic optimum because it was considered that this was optimum climatic environment. Right, that was actually warmer than now. But this came in the immediate aftermath of the ice age. So if we have a terminal event at the younger dryest boundary, that could have been devastating to earlier
cultures, the Clovis culture, perhaps the Solutrean culture in Europe. There's evidence that there was a major popular emerging now and this is rudimentary, it needs confirmation, but it's pointing in the direction that there was a major population crash associated human population crafts associated with the younger dryest and the megafonal extinctions, right,
that is going to require several millennia to recover from. It'd be just like if we had a major, multiple impact type event now that wiped out civilization. How long is it going to take us to start over again? Yeah, you know, if it's going to take centuries at least. Well, I think that we could consider the possibility that in the aftermath of the traumatic end of the ice Age, the traumatic transition from Pleistocene to Holocene, not only did we lose a lot of species, but we lost culture.
We lost civilization as well. Now, this is a very controversial idea that I think is way more controversial than it should be. We should be looking at that very possibility. We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly to my guest today, Randald Carlson, will be right back, thinking back on when I used to hold your hand, feeling lost and found at the same time the distant
memory how are you and me so bitter, sweet and true? With Renald Carlson is a keynote speaker at the upcoming Cosmic Summit conference June fifteenth, and sixteenth in Greensboro, North Carolina. For more information, go to cosmicsummit dot com forward slash Earth Ancients. What are you going to be able to find though that as evidence of human death because the heat's going to evaporate the bones of any Yeah, this is yeah, you're getting Yeah, You're you're honing
in on one of the primary problems is that. Yeah, I mean, we find the bones of megafonel remains and so on, but we're not finding the bones of you know, in the same level of proliferation that we're finding megafonnel remains we were. I mean, for example, there's a one or two examples of an actual skeleton from somebody who was part of that close culture. That's a whole other topic, Cliff, But swinging back to what I was getting at, if you look back at the whole policy and the rise,
where we're at now with civilization, it's here's it. It's like up down, up, down, up down. We keep getting knocked back, but then we push ahead. The climatic optimum came to an end about between five and six thousand years ago, and that caused a major disrupt because it began to get cold again. And the climate of the planet has steadily cooled off until it culminated in what we call the Little Ice Age. And the Little Ice Age really began on about the early thirteen hundreds and only ended like
in the mid eighteen hundreds. It was about a five or six hundred year period. There was some interruptions within it, but it really had pretty severe consequences because the Little Ice Age came on right in the aftermath of the Medieval warm period, which lasted from about nine hundred to the late twelve hundreds. During this period, this followed right on the heels of the Dark Age. You've heard of the Dark Age, right, the Dark Ages, right.
The Dark Ages lasted from about the early five hundreds up until about the nine hundreds, and it was a period of cold, right. It was a period of stagnation for European civilization that came to an end between nine hundred. The climate warmed, sea levels rose somewhat, ice receded northward towards the Pole, and it opened up the sea lands between northern Europe, Iceland, Iceland, and Greenland. That's when you had the Commonists going out and settling on
the west coast of Greenland. During the beginning of what's called the Medieval Warm period because of the increased the increased warmth, the increased growing season, the longer growing season, the fact that you had more agricultural land now available because of the warm weather. For example, the tree line shifted north. Trees were now growing two three hundred miles further north than they had been during the Dark Ages. This was a time when human lifespans increased, human population grew,
infant mortality decreased, even human stature increased. During this Medieval Warm period because of abundant food. It created leisure time, division of labor, which then made it possible to undertake this great enterprise of cathedral building. The cathedral building in Europe in those High Middle Ages coincides exactly with the Medieval Warm period
and the wealth that was a byproduct of that benign climate. Here's what I'm getting at early thirteen hundreds, the Medieval Warm period, within a decade or two came to an end. In the first phase of the Little Ice Age came on, and you had between like thirteen twenty and thirteen forty you had multiple cold years where there was agricultural failure that led to food shortages. Led to malnutrition that then led to famine. Famine causes people's immune systems to become
weak, and now they're susceptible to opportunistic diseases. And then in the thirteen forties you had the Black Death, the bubonic plague that came in and wiped out at least a third depopulation of Europe. That was an extraordinary catastrophe, and it resulted from the return of the cold. Right now, come back. Meanwhile, because of the cold, glaciers worldwide began to expand, and they got bigger around the world than they had been since the end of the
Great Ice Age thirteen thousand years ago. People don't understand this. When we start talking about glacier recession, we have to look at, well, what's the baseline. Well, the baseline is the mid eighteen hundreds, when these swollen glaciers of the Little Ice Age began to shrink back. But what we're now knowing, and we've got overwhelming evidence to prove that the ice sheets were bigger than they had been in ten or twelve thousand years, and there were
times in the pass when they are smaller than now. Okay, now, all of this is a content here's what I'm getting at. If we look at the last quarter million year's cliff and we go, okay, the Holocene has given us this period of say, ten thousand years of interglacial warmth. We've been able to create what is now becoming a global civilization. If we don't blow it by getting into World War three Okay, which I'm praying we
don't, but considering the intelligence of some of our leaders now. But if we don't do that, I mean, we have the potential to become a truly unified global civilization that could literally become cosmic. If we start cooperating with the other major nations around the world rather than trying to go to war with them over this maulenthusian view of diminishing resources, we could become a cosmic civilization.
Once we become a cosmic civilization, we are the more we move in that direction, the more we're immunizing ourselves against the kind of cosmic catastrophes that wiped out tal Alhamam, that caused the Younger dryas. Now. In conclusion, I'm going to say this, the Holocene is unique. Within the quarter million years two hundred fifty thousand years, there's one other analog to the Holocene
and the ten thy twelve thousand years of Holocene warmth. That is this period that I mentioned a few minutes ago, called the Emian marine isis isotope Stage five E. It lasted from about one hundred and fifteen thousand years ago to
one hundred and thirty thousand years ago. Okay, that was a period that is now considered to be the analogue the only other time in the whole two hundred and fifty to three hundred thousand years or longer that we can now reconstruct the climate where we had a period of interglacial warmth relatively similar to our own the Holocene. It means that during that sea levels were actually about twenty feet higher than them, so it means glaciers were much smaller. Right, it
was warm, there was abundant rainfall. It would have been if ever there was a time in prehistory when people might have discovered agriculture, it would have been during the Emian. Now, if you discover agriculture and you start growing abundant food, and you have more food, and you can stockpile food, and people are not going hungry, they're not families because of a drought or the onset of cold or whatever. You now have the ability to grow population.
You grow the population, you can now have the division of labor. Well, it's only in that circumstance, like Plato says in his Two Dialogues, it's only when you get to that level, that you can now have philosophy. You can now have science. You can have people making you know, minute observations of celestial motion, and of studying plants, studying biology, and mathematics, geometry, all of these things that would emerge clearly if you've
got some spare time on your hands. Well, anybody could discover geometry. Put a pole in the ground with a rope around it, and you can draw a circle. And that's the beginning of geometry. That leads you into the whole magical realm of geometry. And geometry then opens the door to the whole edifice of mathematics. All mathematics traces back to geometry. Now here's what
I'm getting at. Here's my point. The challenge to me would be knowing now what we know about the Emian The challenge might be to explain why a civilization did not emerge and evolve out of the Emian one hundred and twenty thousand years ago. That's the way. And I'm probably going to take that up in more detail at the Cosmic Summit, and I'm going to be talking about you know, I've got a new podcast now called King of Geometry. It's
called Squaring the Circle. Oh dude, you should talk about that. When did when did you launch that? Oh recently within the last what six weeks? I think I've got six up, So that's three. Now you have a right. I have Cosmographia, both Cosmographia, and then you have Ranald Carlson. Well, Randalcarlson dot com will get you to my stuff. Just Randall Carlson dot com. I must say that Carlson is spelled with an O. Randall is spelled with two l's. Randall Carlson c A R L S
O N. Yeah. But you know the boys I was working with, Brad Young and Russ and Kyle Allen. Yeah you know those guys. Yeah, all of them, super good guys. Well, when we launched Cosmography about four years ago, we were all we all had different schedules and we regularly met every week to put out a put out an episode. Well within the last year year and a half, we've gotten all so busy and traveling a lot. Yeah, and it became we were like only getting an episode
out about once a month. Oh that's not good. Yeah, that's not good at all. No, So Cosmographia is still a viable entity and we will be putting out special episodes of Cosmographia today. You have a great website for Cosmographia. I just checked it out before we started. Yeah. Cool. And then so the new podcast is really it doesn't depend it can be just me. I've built this studio over the past year, year and a half. Yeah, a bundle. I've got a whole new podcast studio built.
I'm sitting in. It's a big space. You're in there, it's great. Yeah, And I've put part of my library back there, and I've got you can see like all my research see if I can. Wow. Yeah, you got Shelby units and wow. Okay, yeah a mixing board, big mixing board. Yeah, I got a mixing board. So yeah, I'm I'm We're So who's producing this new podcast? Is it just you? Or do you have anybody working? I got I'm working with my
Robertson CEO and founder of Howtube. Okay. In fact, next week we're gonna we're going down to Sarasota, Florida, and I'm going to be meeting We're going to be meeting with the executives of Rumble or you've heard of them, Rumbled, Yeah, excellent, So we're going to probably form a partnership with them. Excellent. They will be hosting the podcast, the new podcast
super So. Yeah, I'm excited about that. Congratulations, And we're going to mention that you're going to be at the Cosmic Summit fifteenth and sixteth You'll be there both days. It actually officially launches on Friday the fourteenth with the big dinner. Yeah, everyone showing up. If you want more information on Randall or the other excellent speakers, go to Cosmicsummit, dot com, Forward slash Earth Ancients. I'm telling people who can't make it out to North Carolina
to do the streaming product because it's excellent. And George told me the other day that you get to keep all the files. If you can't make everybody, you can't make a talk, you get the files for I think it's just one hundred bucks for two days, which is really, really it be something extraordinarily affordable and for the quality of the content you're going to get is
unprecedented. I've done so many conferences over the years, and they range all the way from kind of dry, kind of boring, scientific all the way to very much very woo on the other hand, where people are saying this to how in the world do you confirm or verify that actually this is different? This is a mix. You've got a little you've got some stuff that
would be considered fringe, but every presenter has done their homework. Yeah, the references has the foundation and it's a very interesting mix of cutting edge science of speculative ideas about where we're going in ancient history. It's very open minded, but the WU factor is very minimal. And that's why we're a sponsor, because it's I I like your definition. It's got good foundation, and it's got good research, and it's not too WU. There's some there's some
there's some fringe, but not dominating this show. Over the last few years. Yeah, I've seen some stuff. I'm like, oh, come on, come on, we got to be open minded, you know you've got to. You got the WU wo on one end and then you've got these gatekeepers of of acceptable narrative. On the other they're the guys that are attacking Graham and calling them a white supremacist, and it's just it's nuts. Did you see Graham debate? Uh? Did you see him on Rogan debate?
I haven't seen that yet. But he didn't need to do that, but he decided he wanted to debate this. I don't know what Graham's thinking, but anyhow, he feels that he needs to debate orthodoxy. It's two points of view. Been on him to debate, to debate these guys. I haven't seen it yet. Joe Rogan texted me shortly thereafter wanted my opinion on it. I sent him back a text said, well, Joe, I haven't seen it, but I will watch it, you know, sometime in
the near future, and I'll let you know what I think. But you know, I read the stuff that Lint Dibble wrote and it was just nauseating, and it was just, you know, the narrative is ridiculous. It's like what I did was I collected and I'm going to do a podcast about my research into the reaction to ancient apocalypse, right, so looking into it what I saw was I collected maybe eight or ten different mainstream media treatments of it, and they were here's what struck me. These guys are all reading
from the same script. Yeah, you know, where in the hell are they coming up with this white soup pharmacy, you know, racism? You know, look, Graham Hancock has a has a dark skinned wife, beautiful woman from Africa. No, she's from Malaysia. Oh I thought she's from Africa. No, she's from Malaysia. But okay, it doesn't matter. She's a woman of color, mixed race. Kids, Where are you coming from with this crap? Well, you know what I saw when I read
it. You know, here you have some you know, archaeologist calling him a pseudo archaeologist, because apparently you're not allowed to so some questions you're not allowed to ask, like, oh, let's see, is it perhaps a more deeper, more complex story of human history on planet Earth than mainstream science is recognizing? And I think the answer is obviously yes, But you're not allowed to ask that. You're not allowed to ask it or even question what
the current narrative is. Yeah, you can't question that. And as I went through these attacks on him, here's what's struck me. Yeah, they're all even some of the same phraseology they're using throughout these different like they're all reading from the same script. So I did a lecture not long after that where there was a couple hundred people in the audience, and I said, would you I'm just curious among you group of people, how many of you
saw in trim Apocalypse? And I would say at least two thirds of the hands went up? Okay, I said, okay, now answer me this. Of all of you people, and there's probably one hundred to one hundred and fifty of you in here who've seen it, how many of you Your takeaway from that is that Graham Hancock is a conspiracy mongering white supremacist racist. God guess how many hands went up? Zero? Yeah, But how is it that amongst mainstream media, these reporters and journalists and these who I called
the true pseudo archaeologists are all putting that narrative on it. No, they're not all coming up in depending that Graham Hancock is proposing racism. They're all reading from the same script. So my question then becomes is, Okay, where was the origin of this script? Who is coming up with this, sending this out, here's the memo. This is what you're supposed to say about ancient apocalypse. It irritates the hell out of me. But you know
what, I think I see it as a sign of desperation. I think they're on their last legs, and I see more revolutionary discoveries and thinking because there's a new class of anthropologists and archaeologists that are accepting that they need to review old narrative. I mean, these guys are are taught from books that are one hundred to two hundred years old, and that old school needs to
pass. We need to go beyond the old school. So yeah, and I think there are there is a new generation of like like you said, archaeologists, geologists that are that are you know, looking at history and prehistory with a much more open mind and saying, well, yeah, there is evidence that that there are things that is not are not being explained by the mainstream narrative, the established paradigm of our ancient past. They don't see it.
They don't see it because I mean, I have this big problem, Randall, when you have an educated individual who is taught by his professors not to look beyond the boundaries of what he's been told. You're screwed. Yeah, you have to have you have to have an education system that says look beyond with a with a grain of salt. There's a there's a mayanist. Her name is Linda Sheeley, who passed away, who trained a bunch of archaeologists to look beyond and to One of our regulars on my show is a
guy named doctor Edwin Barnhardt's. He's great because he will allow consideration of a different narrative. That's how we have to have it. That's how we have to have it. So hey, really a pleasure having you on the program. Before we go, let me just mention one thing I have to do this go ahead because it's it's something that that people need to know. You know you mentioned three websites. Well, you know one of those websites that
I used to be affiliated with I had to completely part company with. We talked about that and we have Yeah, what was the name. It's been ramped up. I think what he's doing now is using optimization techniques to drive people to that website. Oh it's still up. It's still up. In fight of being served two season desist letters it's still up. He's still selling my work using my name and my likeness. You can go to the website.
He sends out a newsletter where he'll open the newsletter by attacking me and anybody that I'm working with, and then right there on the next page, he's selling my work. He's been living off of my work for nearly a decade. It's been going on five years now that he has confiscated every cent that's come in from the sale of my work. And these are just simple facts. Anybody can be He's he's been going online saying that I'm lying about it, but it's easily verified. Can you give us the RL what's the
web address? So well, it's Sacred Geometry International. That's the one. Okay, one, that's one. It's still up. It's as poisonous as as it became. Why I had to disassociate from it, and he's yeah, you know, after four years of promoting QAnon, I'm like, dude, this is not I'm not associated with. Why are you using a website that's promoting my work, that's hosting my work, and now you're using it
to promote QAnon and other stuff that I have nothing to do. With you out right, and that was sort of the beginning of the end, and then it just degenerated from there. And then there was a sort of a manufactured drama about four years ago involving Russ's and Kyle and Brad the great great guys like family to me, attacking those guys and then using this manufactured drama to justify seizing appropriating my work. And he's been living on it for years
now. I am so amazed that cease and desist doesn't stop him. But he doesn't realize. I mean, you know, like they're all saying, you know, when you find yourself trapped in a hole, stop digging. But he's continued to dig and everything that he puts out is just you know, well, I just wanted to let pe no, that is not me. Okay, go to that website. You're supporting fraud. I'll be clear, it's totally fraudulent. You'll see my picture, you'll see my work for
sports sale, but it's fraudulent. I received not one penny from any of that. He's got over ninety of video clips of podcasts I've done with people like we're doing right here. Yeah, he's got there, and you go there and he's generating advertising revenue from it. I see none of it. In the last year or two, I've been approached by number of people that said, oh man, I made donations to that site thinking I was donating to you and I and so yeah, it's I just I gotta let go
public with this. Yeah. No, that's fine, and I'm happy you are, because my audience will come back to me and say, hey, I went to Sacred Geomeory International and doesn't look like what Randall's all about. Yeah, it's definitely not what Randall is all about. And I think that you know it's going to come to an end. Very give us a reminder of the of the actual functioning sites that you are Randall, carlist dot com that's it, right, andhowtube dot com. You can find everything with those
two pretty much. Okay, Now, I was on Randallcarlson dot com talk real briefly about your upcoming events, because you got one in June at the beginning of June, you got the you got what you got one at the beginning of June, and then you got the actual summit, and then you're doing something in September. Yeah, okay, So we just did we just did a tour of the Great Floodlands of Eastern Washington. That's done. Okay,
that's done. I got back a week ago. I'm still finally kind of recovered because you get a whole week you're out on a tour, you got thirty five or forty people. Yeah, you're you gotta be on constant I understandt bad that I was sleeping in the resort. The lodge we stayed in was great, but the bad I had to shift over and sleep on the couch. I don't like soft beds anyways, So a week long sleep deprivation. Took me about three days to recover from that. But it was
a great tour and we saw some I've gotten really good feedback. And as always, we do these tours and the people that come together around these tours are just some of the best people. People you want to know, you know, when you know this, Cliff, I think there's a whole community, a family of people growing around these ideas. Yes, like, your your role has been You've been doing this for how long. Now we're celebrating our tenth year this month. That's awesome, man. Yeah, high five
to you, dude. But yeah, so I think what we've been doing. You know, you and me and many others, dozens of others. You know, we don't necessarily all have the same perspective or necessarily agree on every single issue. But what we are doing is we're asking questions and we're
bringing together a family or community of people. We're looking outside the dogmas and outside the established narratives and realizing that, you know what, there's a new story about our own past and that is going to open the doors to incredible
possibilities into our new future. And one of the things that as you know, well you've been talking to George Howard, you know that there's going to be presentations about the emerging plasma technology, and we didn't talk about that, but this is going to be a critical part of what's going in the next year, two or three. This emerging technology could be a major game changer
in terms of the industrial landscape of planet Earth in many different ways. And it could also open the door to a deeper understanding going back to that question of if there was previous civilizations, here's one of the problems and I know we got to go but one of the problems that I see it with the mainstream archaeologists. Is they're looking into the past Number one, with no appreciation of the extreme extent to which this planet has been remodeled from time to time.
Secondly, they're basically holding a mirror up in front of them and they're looking for you know, civilization necessarily has to look like what we've created, right, and it doesn't. It doesn't have to be anything like that. And once you begin to understand the potential of the plasma energy could be the foundation of a completely different kind of civilization. And what we're now seeing is that this technology. The last I heard is we're going to be demonstrating it
at the Cosmic Summit. So people do need to get on board and learn about this, because have you read Robert Temple's book on plasma Robert Temple's book, You don't mean this one. I had him on the show when that book came out, and that's an amazing topic. Yes, I read the book. I've been done a me and George and Robert Temple did a long zoom meeting a couple of months ago. Yes, I read this book and it certainly does. Yeah, so you're kind of up to speed on this,
Yeah, I totally. I totally get it. But what you're talking about is the next level, which is which is a civilization creation and things like that. Yes, I gotta go. It's been wonderful speaking with you. I think it's been a more than twelve months since we have you. Let's get back to regular communications and great having you on the program and continue success my friend. Thanks and I look forward to actually meeting you in person someday. All right, we haven't met in person yet, but I was
hoping you'd be at the Cosmic Summit and we can shake hands. We'll do it next time. We'll have a bro hug. But hey, we'll have a chance. Guy, I know a vessel of knowledge Randall is. He's just ongoing a lot of fun having him on the program. I hope you enjoyed that interview. I will definitely be having him back. We always have Randall at the end of the year. Kind of the best of the best, Hancock, Carlson, Cremo. I don't know who else will be the
best of the best. It's the month of December each year we do this and it's always fun speaking with him again. I really urge you to consider the Cosmic Summit conference June fifteenth and sixteenth in Greensboro, North Carolina. If
you can get out there, it's very reasonably priced. If you can't get out and a lot of people can't fly because of the time and the expense and whatever, consider the streaming media and to get that information, go to Cosmicsummit dot com, forward Slasher of Ancients, look for the virtual Pass or the streaming Media Pass and click it. It's one hundred bucks for two days,
which is very very reasonable. Most conferences are in the one fifty a day price range, some as high as two and we're talking about over twenty speakers. Previn Mohan, Randall, Carlson, Robert Schock, Scott Walter, on and on and on. Check out their lineup. It's very reasonable. You get to keep the folders too, the content folders, so those presentations, if you miss one or two or the whole show, you can still have those files to watch your leisure. So they really make it worth a
worthwhile checking out. And I strongly urge you to consider the streaming media component of the conference. And you know, there's a lot of conferences out there, but this is one of the better ones. And this is why Earth Ancients as a sponsor simply because of the mix of academic and research investigators. Independent research investigators makes it a real fun and informative conference. So check it
out Cosmic Summit dot com for Slash Earth Ancients. Hey, I want to mention that we do tours every year and we do fun, very inexpensive tours around the world. We have a really good tour coming up. We actually have two more tours this year. Turkey is going to be August fourteenth through the twenty fourth. It is a brand new tour with Mohammed Embrahem and an archaeologist from Turkey. This is a first for me as well. I've never
been there and it looks like a blast. We're almost full. We got a couple of spots left for the Full Light itinerary, which includes Gobeckley Teppi and the fabulous new Discovery Carahan Teppee in the mix. Go to Earth Ancients dot com forward Slash Tours and look at the Full itinerary. Now we got another tour that is at the end of the year. It's the Sacred Temples of Mexico November eighth through the seventeenth, so one weeker and it's packed with
fun. It's packed with visits to temples, to Mayan cities, and we're focusing on pyramid climbs and we climb Ushmol's main pyramid. The Yeah, it's the main pyramid. And then we go we go to Ekbaalam, we go to chichen Itza, we go to Mayapan and everywhere that we go to except for Chichienitsa, unfortunately, we climb pyramids. This is really a good tour for people who live in the United States because the flights are very inexpensive.
To eat Kankon or Mereda and it's fun. Mexico is very reasonably priced, very inexpensive, and this tour is based in Mereda and we're gonna see some new excavations, We're gonna do some meditations, We're gonna do some manifestation meditations. These are power centers and I've been going to Mexico for thirty years and it's a blast. So if you have time, if you want to join us. We got Turkey, we got Mexico. Check them out. Let
me know if you have any questions whatsoever. For details, go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tours. If you have any questions, send me an email at Earth Ancients the number four the letter you at gmail dot com. I'll get right back to you. I want to also mention and these are coming up in twenty twenty five. We're gonna be in Easter Island. This is a once in a lifetime tour with doctor Edwin Barnhardt. It's gonna be in the spring, and then we'll probably do Turkey again. We're not
gonna be in Egypt. We're skipping a year, but we're doing Day of the Dead in Guatemala. And this is a one week tour with doctor ed And the great thing about that is he has permission for the for the tour group to climb the World Pyramid and to call and this is the pyramid that John Burke tested that has a tolluric energy signature at it's the highest and early in the morning, and this is what we'll do is we go, we get up around five and we climb this pyramid and we sit on it until
the sun rises. This is the highest point of the energy field, the highest point, so you're gonna feel it. It's like you're gonna be plugged into a battery and you know, it's funny. I was talking to Jim Dale about it. She did it with her husband Scott a number of years ago. She says it was very very interesting, very sensational, and very eclectic. In other words, that she's really felt the energy. You could hear the birds, the monkeys. It's like one big operatic journey. So
if you're interested in any of these tours, send me an email. Send it to Earth Ancients for you at gmail dot com for the two tours in twenty twenty four, Earthancients dot com Forward slash tours let me know, come out and join us. Our tours are a blast. They're extremely reasonable. For the most part, they're about half off what you'll typically pay for a tour in these areas, So Earth Ancients dot com Forward slash Tours. All right, that's it for this show. I want to thank my guest today,
the masterful Randall Carlson, coming to us from Georgia. As always, the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster, and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock, all right, take care, be well. We will talk to you next time. Doct