This week we had to South America and the work of Virto Riefo, who was an archaeologist who made some profound discoveries. His belief was that man evolved in Antarctica, migrated north to South America, eventually into present day Mexico and North America. The people from Antarctica were known as the Vericochia, this fair skinned race of beings who had the knowledge of agriculture, mathematics, medicine,
and building Tiwanaku Cusco of sophisticated building technology and large populations. This week we look at South America as a source of Homo sapien sapient and the great migration to the world. All this and more today on Earth Ancients for Saturday, September sixteenth, twenty twenty three. This is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, how you doing. We're traveling to South America
today. I don't get enough data about the regions down there, and that's a very very old, perhaps really old part of the world that doesn't get enough. We don't we don't receive enough data from that area. And this is why I like to have Rafael Eisman, who's an historian, a scholar and a prolific writer on the program to tell us some of the newest discoveries that are coming out of places like Peru, Bolivia, Chile. And we don't think of this part of the world as a bastion for ancient cultures,
but it really really is. And our program today is aptly titled Polar Antarctic Origins of Mankind. And as we'll hear in this interview today, there are numerous cultures, ancient civilizations, ancient landscapes and ruins of people that we are very we know very little of. At the end of the interview, by the way, Rafael discusses a series of children mummies that were found in the very high mountains of Peru. Why they were buried there is anyone's guests.
But I will be posting not only a number of galleries of these people, these children, but also of the Vera Cucha, which are the white gods. Are the fair skinned gods that populated much of South America, but thousands of years ago also left their impressions on Central and Mexico. Central America and
Mexico. Now most of us know about the Parakas people of South America, and I have been fascinated by this culture for decades, not only because of their anatomical differences, being taller, thicker boned, and having exceedingly longer skull cranial sizes than we Homo sapien sapience. But there comes into question lost races of the ancient world, and I believe the Paracus are one of these people.
I got involved and interested in these longheaded people, like I said, decades ago, when I was beginning to travel to Mexico and in northern Yucatan, there are grave sites that are filled with remains of long headed what can only be considered Maya people and some of the early pathology and these are Studies that were done on these skeletal remains reveal that the bodies of the heads, the cranial craniums of these people are much longer naturally, which means that they
were not bound. And the belief from a lot of alternative archaeology alternative researches that the head binding comes centuries later after these these longheads had passed on for whatever reason, environmental causes, whatever, We don't know why the race would perish, but they were sanctified by the people in headbinding practices so they could
they could create artificially the look of these people through headbinding. Now, when we talk about South America, the practice are one of many people who settled that area. And today we'll hear from Raphael the belief that a number of scientists at the turn of the century had that there was a great migration from Antarctica into the known South American regions by an unknown race of super beans, the Verracoccia and other civilizations that settled in Chile, Peru, Bolivia and other
areas. If we study the best known of these cities, Tewanaco of Bolivia, and we look at the remains, this is a civilization that is extremely sophisticated. They're building components. The blocks that built their foundations. The walls, the columns, and so forth, are cut from anisite of very resilient
and tuft to cut stone that's only found in the quarries of Bolivia. I have not had a chance to go to Tewanaku, but a number of people have, and Graham Hancock, Chris dun number of people have had a chance to go there and analyze the stone works of that area. Nobody knows how the stones were cut there's a great deal of speculation that the stones were poured, or they're geopolymers of some kind mixes of cement and local regional rock that
was crushed to make the stonework. But I believe it was Chris Dunn who analyzed the stone to the degree where he felt that it was not poured or a geopolymer, that it was actual stone that was cut with some form of technology that we're not aware of. There have been a few skeletal remains that have been recovered from that area, and they all have elongated skulls. In fact, there are a couple of museums in the area that are filled with
these long headed cultures that occupied those portions of South America. Now, Tiwunaku is a very anomalous place, and it's also extremely old. In fact, it's so old that Lake Titi Kaka, which is very close to that area, is known to have been shifted during some geological change, and it now sits about nine thousand feet above sea level, which is very inhospitable for human beings to be in for very long periods of time. It's just the areas
is so thin. There are a number of researchers that I've studied and we'll hear about them today that believe that Timunaku is probably in the twelve to eighteen thousand year inception date range. I believe it's probably much older than that. It's probably twenties plus. But we can't even consider that because the dates we're
getting back are within the low teens in terms of carbon dating. But to give you an example of an incredible physicality and skeletal remains, here's a short audio of one of the Paracas skulls that were found in a graveyard and just the strangeness and the anomalous nature of their bodies. Have a quick listen. Perracus skull number forty four, discovered in two twelve. It has a weight of two point eight pounds, twenty five percent heavier than the average adult male
skull. It has a cranial capacity of fifteen hundred cubic centimeters twenty percent greater than normal, and it is missing a saginal suture, the connective tissue joint found between the parietal bones in all human skulls. This is just one of hundreds of strange, misshapen skulls that have been found on the southern coast of
Peru dating back to nineteen twenty seven. It was at this time that archaeologist Julioteo first excavated a massive burial complex thought to have been built by the Paracus people who lived in the region from eight hundred BC to one hundred BC. Julio Steo was the father of Peruvian archaeology, and in the nineteen twenties he discovered mummy bundles, and in each mummy bundle was a person with an elongated skull. They were buried in family mausoleums, in some cases as deep as
thirty feet into the bedrock. Mainstream archaeologists say the elongation is most likely the result of head binding, which involves wrapping the heads of infants while their skulls are still soft, in order to change the shape. It is a practice found in numerous cultures throughout the world that dates back thousands of years. But
why would people desire to elongate the heads of their children. Ancient astronaut theorists suggests that headbinding originated with primitive humans who were attempting to imitate the appearance of extra terrestrial visitors. But according to researcher Brian Forster, the assistant director of the Paracas History Museum. Headbinding would not account for the other anomalies that the
Paracus skulls exhibit. About five percent of the elongated skulls that we find in Paracas are so complex in shape and size that it's hard to believe that they're the result of any form of cranial deformation or headbinding. Not only are they elongated vertically, but also the eye sockets are much larger than normal. There are two holes in the back of the skull called foramen through which blood and nerve flow occurred. And also their jaws were very robust and among the largest
of them. We find skulls sixty percent heavier than normal human skulls and a brain capacity that is two point five times larger than the normal human brain. But if these elongated skulls were not the result of the ancient practice of head binding, then just who or what were these mysterious beings. In twenty fourteen, DNA testing was performed on Perrochus skull number forty four, which rendered surprising results. Some initial DNA testing has been done and the results, according to
the geneticists, are quite startling. There were certain segments of the DNA that didn't match anything known to be human. What it suggests to me is that Practus could very well have been an ancient bloodline related to Homo sapiens, but not specifically Homo sapiens itself. Now, we don't hear a great deal of information coming from South America because the scientists down there don't really follow the Western
theory of population of the migration. Most Western scientists believe that Homo sapiens sapiens came down through the Bearing Straight Ice Bridge in Alaska, populated North America, and eventually populated present day Mexico and South America. The out of Africa theory is only kind of a Western culture point of view. There's a lot of
other world who believe that modern humans came out of Australia. The Chinese believe that there's evidence, and they have hominins that are modern that came out of China. South Americans believed that the emergence of modern humans came out of their
their country, and they have good evidence for that. So what does this tell us It's it's a great deal of confusion that we have modern humans, almost Sapiens sapience, coming out of these different parts of the world, you know, and it's so convenient just to say they came out of Africa. You know. That's how I was That's the education that I received in college, and I think it even when is back early is high school, that Africa is the source for modern humans or the evolution of humans, and then
we get into Europe. So South American emergence is very interesting, it's very unique. And as we begin to see this evidence of modern humans arriving and populating South America, moving into Central America and then Mexico and eventually into North America, this is another source of evidence that we need to pay attention to. So the program today is Polar Antarctica Origins of Mankind. My guest is
Raphael Eisman. Be sure to see the gallery on Facebook, and also at the end of this interview you'll be hearing some discussion on these children mummies. Look for the video that I'll be posting on Earth Ancients of the most recent
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even pork. Each of the meals I had was excellent. So go to factor meals dot com slash Earth Ancients fifty and use the code Earth Ancients fifty to get fifty percent off m M. So we cover a great deal of the world annually, Mexico, United States, Europe, but we don't get down to South America enough. And we have a historian, a field researcher
who's a prolific writer, and that's our friend Rafael Eisman. He is coming to us from Chili today and in the last interview we did, he was discussing Pissaro, who was a conquistador who came with educated priests and I guess historians for the time and spoke of very very early people actually chronicled. And we're gonna ask and talked to Rafael about these early chronicles pre Inca and even
before that. So there's a lot to talk about today and we want to catch up on some of the latest research that he has unfolded for us from South America, specifically Chili. So hey, Rafael, how are you? I welcome back to Earth Ancients. High Cliff I'm fine, thank you. How are you. I'm doing great, Thank you for joining me. Let's talk real quickly. You know, you you speak of Pissarrow and his his group who when he came over he actually was smart enough to bring with him
scribes and educated people. Correct, yes, yes, and and what what did the I mean did he did they write a history of the ancient Americas or what specifically did they chronicle with the with the shaman of of the Inca. Well, you see, they're they're several interesting and may I say fundamental fields. Some of them were you know, under the inquisition eyes. Others where especially those that traveled farther, you know than the main centers, for
instance, as Lim l Cousco in the case of Chile. You know, it was still a very unknown land. So they were I would say more open when they were recording their experiences a game. So talking about Conquistador Petro Pizarro, he wrote Chronica back in fifteen seventy one with the title of Relationship of the Discovery and Conquest of the Kingdoms of Peru. So it's very very
interesting. One of the descriptions he gave because he saw these indios, these indigenous people who were actually white and blonde, and they were different than than to the other ones, the one that we can think of usually when we think about Bispanic world, and actually one of these other indigenous individuals. When Pedro Pizarro inquired who are they, they say they were the children of the idols. And the idols it's a fundamental concept because it's the idea of theosis
of the gods. And the reason why Pedro Pizaro wrote idols instead of gods, it's because of the Christian faith. You know, you could not sound at any point, as you know, having any idea of several gods. There is just one god, which is the Christian God. So that's something you have to you know, really like focus when you're reading these chronicles of the fifteenth sixteenth century. Yeah, you actually write about these white Inca,
these white Indians. But Pissaro was quite fascinated with them, wasn't he was? He was? I mean, like you're it's like you know, going to any in the past, of course, any let's say, unknown region, unknowned country, and you have an stereotype of people and suddenly you find another type. Of course you must be wondering, who are these people? Where are they from? How come they are different? Again? And this is uh, what we're talking about right now about Pedro Pisarro. It's not
the only one. Actually, when I was first reading all these chronicas, it cautes very very very strong my attention. When I, for instance, was reading the letters of Pedro de Valdivia, the conquistadore of Chile. You know, he actually founded Santiago, our capital city. When he was writing to the Emperor of Spain that he so the white people, white indigenous people in the valley of the Mapocho, which is the main river that crosses our city. So I was wondering, what, you know, is he implying
with the description. And it turns out that as as soon as I started to read all the Grannistas of Chili, other Grannistas of Peru, of Ecuador, I was so surprised to realize that it's not just one. There are many many European, let's say, witnesses of this Presepanic white Indian population in the Americas. And actually I have written several articles, of course a couple of books about this, I would say, forgotten people of our past.
Hm. I find it fairly unique that Bizarro would chronicle. Now he forced to bring educated people with him or did they pay their way to join him to sail to South America. Well, you see, I must say that there's this. I'm not saying all of them were great and pull some of them, you know, like like wealth, but not all of them were like that, and some of them were like world. Therefore, not only they were prepared, they know how to write and read, and the models,
no quote, scientific people with them. Some of them were priests, of course, some of them were missionaires, and they were recording. We have we have in the you know, in these fascinating sources of the sixteenth seventeenth century, amazing amazing fields of knowledge of you know, from the botanic point of view, from logical point of view, and in many cases these are examples of you know, I would say the search of knowledge you know,
that predates the scientific modern world. So it's very interesting how they weare, you know, inquiring how they were learning, and then of course recording all what they were seeing, all what they were you know, witnessing. As I say, they have very important records about you know, plants, about the soils, about the mountains, about the rivers, and lakes, and of course about the people and they were you know, and encountering.
So you have descriptions of what we say, like the you know, stereotype of Indigenous people. But also also you find that they were you know, talking about these Indians blancos or white Indians, which is something that as I say before, all my attention because it breaks you know that you we have
about the Praise Panic world. And I must say that when I started to you know, really focusing into this field, it was not only that they were describing these people because they were seeing them, you know, but also you find descriptions of this population in the Praise Panic sources, for instance, in the pople who you know, and some of the fumes American texts that
were not destroyed by the incusition. It's a feel that's absolutely fascinating. And sculptures, spanic textile figures, you know, and and and you know, representations of another group of people, of indigenous people. And that's something that I would says, it has in to a point ignored for instance, a famous American historian, Paul trivete By. When I say American, I do
not mean from the States. I mean scholar that focused on the roots of America's of course, Paul Revet he has in the his book The Origins of American Minds, he has a whole chapter about these white population that several other people have also witnessed. So it's not something that we are making up now
that we are you know, creating at all. Now I'm curious, you know, you're laying out that Pizarro, Francisco Pizarro was you know, much different than say Cortez, who his seems like his only goal was just to to fight against the mata Zuma and the Aztecs and then reap as much gold and valuables as possible. Pissarro was the same way, wasn't he In many ways he was you know he was he may have been educated, but he
was not by any means a teacher or a philosopher at all. Well, they have these very very i would say strange combination or mix of of you know, a very powerful idealism of their you know, Western Spinach spirit and also these very strong let's say materialism. So you have a mix, uh
in some of these cases. But then you have also these very grave people that crossed in like these ships, you know, all that you wouldn't even know they weren't going to be able to cross you know, the Atlantic Ocean at that time, and then reaching all Central America, and then you know, like traveling through a known part of South America, I mean all the way down until they would reach you know, Cousco or or or the central
regions of Chelles. So it's a it's a very interest in combination. Yeah, belief of what what what they speak, all in their beings in there in there in what they called the side spirit of the time. It's it's it's a mix of different factors. Okay, Yeah, talk a little bit about what they discovered the origins of this white race of inca in indigenous people. Did Did they get a chance to figure out where they originate from? I haven't found. I have read hundreds of chronicas, hundreds of chronicas.
I have the records of since I would say I'm Americo Vespucci until pH Flawcet. We're talking about over five hundred years, you know, of or around five hundred years of different people that didn't know the sources of the others that
they are describing. You know, this phrase funny white population so far I haven't read any you know, like conclusion that they would give about what was the origins, just some you know, references as the one given by Bedro Pizzaro when he asked one of these indigenous people, who are these these white indians he was witnessing, and and and his informants said, they are the
children of the idols, the children of the gods loos. So that that it's a it's a very very like short you know clue, you know, but that's something we can we can understand. Why I'm saying this is because once the nissioners, the conquistadors, and of course later on ethnologists started to write down, you know, started to record the oral traditions of the indigenous
people of the Americas. They were asking them who are the gods? And then for instance, we're talking about the Vida coaches of the Andean world, and the Vida coaches are in some cases represented, you know, for instance, in the tradition of Tiahuanaco, and these missionaires these technologies were asking can you describe them? And they say, well, they were told they were
white. In many cases they were blonde, even with reddish hair, which once again it's not the ethnical features are not the ethical features you know that you find in the stereotype of indigenous people. You know, snap you real quickly, is there today in either Chile or anywhere that you're familiar with in South America? Are there descendants of these white rays that you can see in the in the built in the cities. Well, I wasn't say in the
city's cliff, but I can give you a personal example. I would say around twenty even, I would say more twenty five than six years ago. I was invited by a shaman of of the Aragano culture. Her name was into y r Puan, and she invited me to her home all the way south of of of Chile, and at one point she said, like she has to, you know, visit her spiritual shaman. They are known in
Chile as macchi, a game. And it turns out that this was in a forest and I was, you know, like kind of like the first to arrive to this hut, and suddenly this like kind of show tiny woman appeared. She's indigenous, of course, and she appeared with her husband and both were kind of very you know, like out of out of another time, and they the men had like greenish eyes, and she had blue eyes. They didn't speak a single word of Spanish, they didn't have Spanish or
European features at all. They look really indigenous people, as I say, they were not you know, from from Spanish or Europeans sendents. And I was kind of shocked, you know, in the in a good sense to find these, you know, people that you you read and chronic us of course, and King to Lye says to me, they are reached. They are like pure indigenous people, you know. And I asked her later on and then she said, or religion, and indeed what you find today.
They were like, you know, white and very very tall, and in in you know, also in Perule in Bolivia. When I have been traveling around, I have also met indigenous people with these features. So it's something that it is a very important field. And at one point I realized that they are the forgotten people, you know, of our Praispanic world. They have a sentence today, you know, it happens to that as as we can see certain fields of history of course, of archeology and and and ethnology.
They say, well, they must be you know, the descendants of some you know people from holand that game that you know, their their ships sunk and they kind of like escaped and they were received by any indigenous people. Then they have children and so on. But the interesting thing, you know, against that argument, because it's something that I have heard, you know, many occasions, is that white Respanic people, you know, they
have the same like European or Western skulls. Okay, meaning by that that once you study the archeology levels, okay, you have two main you know, character characteristics being the long skull you know, the lists of the lists aphalic, the older, the one that you know, it's it's the oldest in archeological terms in in South America, which is the same that you find
today in Europe, you know. And then you have at least three four thousand years a gap and you find this raksphalic which is what you have today in the indigenous population all over the Americas. Which is is it a longer cranium right, wider? Yes? Wider? You know, it's yes. So it's interesting that these fields which I'm talking about are not related to any political ideological field whatsoever. They are not covered, you know, And I
insist on this point. The population have been forgotten and presented kind of as you know, like like a fantasy. Whenever you have witnesses h during at least five hundred years, don't you say, when you say fantasy, it's because they look so out of place, right they have, that's what they have. Blonde hair, white, very very white skin and light eyes,
blue green and so forth. Yes, yes, and when I meant my fantasies that for instance, some some historians have said that when they talk about for instance the Vira coachas or the kids at Guados as being white, they were talking that they represent the light of the sun because they were like solar gods. They are civilization giver beings. Therefore they have to be represented as
white. For instance, gets at Quadle, you know, one of the main gods of miss American Puntion, you know as having mustache impart and you know, with physical descriptions that are part of you know, for instance, population in Europe was a tall, fair skin red headed, blue eyed god.
Right, yes, yes, yes, yes, and I know I know also what other historians, for instance Juxtamau, which was a French scholar, he can claimed that all these you know, Pan American and gods as Ketsa guadal or google Kan or Google Mats, and even the virago and of the Indian world were of European heritage, you know, they were actually Vikings, which is something that in my point of view, after all these years I have been researching, I cannot agree with you know, because I'm not
saying that the Vikings were not in South America. This is why we have you on the program. And that takes us to the Roberto Ringifo theories of a polar Antarctic origin of mankind. And you've written a great deal about Ringifo over the years and his belief that mankind actually started from ancient Antarctica and also the belief that this is where the origins of this white race were right. So talk a little bit first of who was robertofo and what do we know
about him? Well, Cliff, Roberto and Hivo. It's it's still a mystery. We haven't been able to trace when he was born or when he died. We have his records in i would say nineteen o four, nineteen o five at University the Chile and in nineteen o six becoming part of the
Scientific Society of Chile, but where he was school Raphael. If we don't know his birth or death, do we know that he was given a degree in anthropology, Yes, because he was he was a professor of university at the Chile Okay, So he could not be part of University Chile without having a degree, Okay. And of course the scientific Society, which was a very very prestigious intuition. Yes, but then actually it was very difficult to
enter, even more difficult to give lectures. So we have that since nineteen o six nineteen nineteen thirty four, if I'm not wrong, he was giving lectures. Actually I have a list of absolutely all the lectures that he gave what I had been able to research. He publy composed this El secreto the la America about secret of Aboriginal America since nineteen nineteen to nineteen nineteen one.
And then he who leased two other books about Prispanic world. One of them is called Graphic and Poetic Art of the Primitives and of the Chiles nineteen twenteen. And then this is something interesting too, the very last known book he wrote. It's called the Role of the Territory of Chile in the able Tion
of Prehistoric Humanity that appeared in Santiago, nineteen thirty five. Okay, And it's interesting because eighteen nineteen nineteen when he claimed that mankind was originating in the whole Antarctic regions, specifically of the white and clear skin, it mankind.
Okay. Then a second important field of all his research is that Kiva claimed that the development of civilization started in the southern hemisphere and spread to the north in the Americas, and from the Americas to the rest of the world. Let me stop you real quickly. So Renewful came up with these theories. He wrote a great deal of articles and books and what we would consider today white papers, which are analyticical studies of of different aspects of of a hominin
or a race of beings. What's what makes him so mysterious to you? The fact that we don't have his birth or death dates or known about his body. What are you suggesting that makes him so odd? Is it like he shows up like a mystery man? Or do you think he's an off world type of being that shows up to give mankind a history that we don't understand. Well, I would, I would say all that. And Markey,
first of all, he's with with with his archeological research. You know, he is presenting in a prestigious institution such as the Scientfic Society of Jiva Okay, a concept, you know, a possibility that of course breaks down Darwinism, breaks down mainstream history, you know, and he keeps he holds into that he is one way or the other, you know, like presenting a parallel view of our origins, of you know, our development, and I would say also of our destiny, you know. And I have thought
so many times why would he present that? He must have had so strong not only believe but facts, you know, and I wonder how he must also have failed when he was in no this field research, prestigious historians of Chile that were how and why would you present something that you know it's going to just put you I think there was this, this, this very very
strong idea. He obtained it first through his field research. And then there's another important fact, which is he also wrote in one of his books that he had contact within indigenous informant and also this indigenous person shared with him ancient knowledge about you know, the cycles of time that they were here before in
chilean end of this development of the civilization from South to north. So I would say, these are just some of the main fields or factors if you please, that where you know, going through his mind, so he could just present this this concept that I think are very very very close to also the mythical magical tradition of the selknam of all this to drive known in the
in Patagonia, and also about their own Avocano Mapuche tradition. Let me go really fast to one one example once also with right right man in the south of the country. We have some visitors of precisely of the United States, and I have no idea how we came up with this field about the origins of mankind. Thinking to right, what's what's kind of like very very she mega gesture, you know, within her right hand, pointing to to the soil, pointing to the ground, saying that we the Alcanos, have emerged
from this land. We have never come from any other continent or other countries. This is where we have lived always and that I know it's not a scientific fact, right, but it is part of the oral tradition that you know, she received from her mother, from her grandmother and so on since the beginning of their presence. So I want to say, I want to move, I want to move into his theories of the Antarctic Antarctic origins.
But I want you to give us your feeling about this guy, because obviously, if he is around the nineteen hundreds and so for the Oven earlier, that's right in the thick of it when it comes to Darwinism. And if he's an anti Darwinist theorist and he believes that Darwin's wrong, then he was
probably going up against everybody. But do we have any sense of relatives, sisters, brothers, uncles, anybody related to ring info that gives us a sense of who this person is. Well, many years ago I had a chance to talk to one nephew of Professor Frankiva, and she said that she was very very young, and she had this image of like an explorer, always full of dust, coming to Santiago for a couple of days and just
going back to the north, to the south, to the north. And I don't have more another testimony about him, besides all what I have said already about his lectures in the Scientific Society. I have some I have I have got some books that you know, have some handwritings of Frankie for so it's a very very mysterious person. And I have been researching his his uh work for I would say, thirty years, Cliff, and you just get to a point where you find your face a wall and can and you cannot
go on farther than that. Now understanding understanding what we have been discussing here, for instance, on what reasons may have he had for presenting another view that you know, it's opposite to the darwin in theory or to mainstream history. I think he have, you know, like knowledge of things that he
was presenting, but I think they're missing works here. You know, it's my guess, it's my my I have a very strong intuition on that, on that, on that sense, and I have complimented I have complimented the work of Frankivo by studying, for instance, the Circonam culture stream South groups of Chilean and they're parallels. You know, for instance that the same Secnam you know from tia Ra del Fuego claimed that they've arrived from a land just
quite southerre. You have to kind of like start to feel a history that it's uh, it has many many missing pieces, but with time, with time you you start to find also other chatters. For instance, a famous historian from Peru, Maria Rostowski. She wrote many books about the Inca civilization and of course about one thing, Shu Young. And among all her field work and you know, all the traditions, she was able to, you know, record of the of the indigenous people. She also claimed that the
Vida Gochas came from the south of the world. Then you have she's psycheologists. Adolph Bandelier, he was in Chilean, he was later in Peru and in Bolivian. Later on he west also in the States. He also mentioned that they Virachas the founders of Tiahuanago, you know, the city of the White Gods, came from Chilo, came from the south of Chile. So what I'm saying with all this is that roy are very interesting, are very fascinating. But can they can be you know, complimented, They can be
you know, developed in a parallel lines with the brace Banic traditions. Okay, okay, We're gonna pause here for a bit and take a commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we'll return shortly with my guest today, Raphael Eisman coming to us from Chile, South America. We'll be right back. My guest today is Raphael Eisman, who has written extensively on the archaeologist Roberto ringing Foe from Chile and his belief that mankind evolved and migrated
from Antarctica. Let's talk about the Rufo theory of early humans coming from Antarctica. Now you're suggesting that the gods, the white gods, came from Antarctica, right, It's this, it's this kind of a theme that regularly Flow presents to us. Yes, yes, Actually he goes even farther when he said that these first people that arrived from Antarctica through the extreme south of South America to the land of Chile. You know, they were called originally Chili's
okay got its name and via coaches. It's the name that they obtained in in the Indian world, as you know, like sort of nickname because they were like the masters of fire. And through his books, he you know, he refers to all this a fire of language, you know, and he develops like kind of like a chronology you know, from the very coaches
originate from Antarctica. But they're not, Yes, they're they're considered gods by the local people because they're intelligent and they have skill a skill set that they
don't and and this is why they're claimed gods. Is that what you're saying, Yes, yes, but but but that that's something that indigenous people or what today we know as indigenous people, and you know, they received later on because according according to these to the very first traditions, there was some sort of like time of the gods, like some sort of like golden age
in Americas. You know, you study the myths for instance of Tiaguanaco, the myths of the Selknam of the Chachapoyas, or the miss American world, and you find in all the different cultures and civilizations that there was some sort of golden age when the gods walk on earth. You know, they created
mankind. Later on, something happened and they vanished, they disappeared, you know, and these people and later much later on the rest of the other people that came from different parts of the world, they start to you know, like venerate the memory of the gods. So I'm curious, let's get into some time factors. Because we've been talking here with a number of different scientists and researchers like yourself, who places the earth in five epochs, and
the earliest epoch goes back four hundred thousand years. And so what is Renefou speculating these early Vera coaches are coming to Chile? What year, what time frame? He's not giving Cliff, He's not giving an exact date. He only refers that these first people are kind of came from Antarctica at the time
of the great flots you know. But then you have another fascinating like field, because according to the glacial cosmogony of Hans Horbiger and Philip Fouds, you have at least four great floods, you know, which are theogic geological mirrors. In the coltroon or sacred Trump of the a Kano Mapuchem, you know, you have this sort of mandala design in the in the in the in
this sacred trump. It's divided also in four parts. I asked once two king to Rive, what is the meaning of this, you know, Coultron and the Simus, and she said, like, these are the four great years or suns. So you have this common roots, common fields in in
I must say, traditional world field. So answering your question, Proverto and Hippol does not give like a chronology of the origin of mankind itself, but he gives an antiquity of at least at least thirty three thousand years old in Tierra del Fuevo, thirty three thousand years for the arrival of our veracocha or thirty three thousand years for the for the creation of fire. Okay, but I have I have of course thought about this and say like this is part
of you know, like the site geist. Again, he would not break that chronology, you know, I would say it's way way much older than that. Okay, but those are the dates he he he gave. Okay, let me let me ask you. In this paper that you wrote on Roberto ringing Fo, this archaeologist he you write about a number of Earth catastrophes, and the earliest you write is five hundred and eighty thousand years ago. Yes, and then there's one that's more recent, which is more of like
the Biblical catastrophe, which was about thirteen thousand years ago. Is the early Earth chronicle of the fifty eight thousand years? Is that? Is that written down in some ancient history or is that from geological records that we find that day. Do you do you mean cliff the time chronology of the Glasher cosmogony.
Yes, well, that's that's a very very like controversial you know concept Holy Year and Philip Fout they took them about, i would say, almost twenty years to to you know, write down the Glasha cosmogony at the first first you know, like like the first reaction of scholars, of of people in general, of the academic world, US strong reaction against against what they
were claiming. Basically, they say that the solar system is older, you know, of what it has been considered, therefore the age of Earth it's older, and of course of the apparition of almost sapiens. And they were
just like rank for you know, they became like outsiders. And it's interesting because many like fields that Horby Gear claim for instance, for instance, like that the under the surface of the moon you will find eyes, something that today we know it is like that, you know then of the antiquity of this branch where we called almost sappien sapience throughout the world. It's also something that hanscore Biggar, Philip Fauson and their disciples, you know, we're able
to sustain. We're talking almost one hundred years ago. So what happens here is that these four great Eras or suns in the mythical language, according to Horby, here they represent them four remain four geological eras, because in each of these eras you have had these you know, like great catastrophes that have destroyed or surface, just remaining some you know, living creatures through luck in the case of mankind, because they were like you know, they were able
to build a shelter or you know, build an arc You know that where was you know, the refuge And of course this is something that you find in the Bible, but everyone knows today that that's the last version of a very very old tradition that you find in India, you find in Germany, you find in the Scandinavian countries, in North America, and of course here
in South America. So trying to put all this together, trying also to answer your question, I would say that when Hippo did not go into this chronology because I I don't I can tell you, but I think there's there are missing parts and hips work, and there's a missing chapter on my on my view and of all what he has uh written there there's no like perfect chronology. Asked these dates that I was mentioning you, and he describes though
that I'm remembering also like a very you know, great antiquity though. But he said that all this this well development of mankind took place in the south of South American Antarctica. And that also brings us to and populary researcher Francisco or Pascayo Moreno, which is an naturalist explorer, claimed that the origin of mankind was in Patagonia. He came up with this idea, I would say eighteen sixty sixty one, nineteen sixty two. And he also was part of
the scientific idea of Argentina, you know. So Moreno, that's give you know, chrono chronology, you know. But I must insist on this point. Leave and I think they're missing missing chapters on Kivos uh work, you know. So yeah, So, so I want to move on real quickly to this article that you wrote and the amazing Antarctic maps, the Larrentis Finale, and talk a little bit about that it actually shows Antarctica without any snow on it and also shows it with great detail. Talk a little bit about
the origins of that map. Well, just like you know, a glaims uh As we have been talking. Kip back in nineteen nineteen claims that the that humankind comes from Antarctica. The only source, you know, history source that he mentions, it's a chronica written by soldier and poet Alonso DECII Suniga called the Alokana fifteen seventy four, and Siauniga wrote on the first part of
his book about Chile the fertile province in the famous Antarctic region. You know, it's interesting this, even though it might sound like a detail, but the Cia and Suniga was one of the last, you know, like very illustrated Gronistas, you know, and his contemporary with all these people you know of Europe, that one way the other presented Antarctica in a time where no one should know that there was at all Antarctica. So I have called these
the impossible maps. For instance, the one of Francesco Rosselli, of course, the famous period raised map Loco Home and or Onto, Sinaos Girardi, Mattia Squad and Philip Watch from France, all of them, all of them. Of course, there was an English cartographer by the name of Mercurio Britannico. They give a geographical description of the large mass in the polar Antarctic region. So we have to wonder what is really the sense of history and how
come you know they knew? That's my question. My question is that when we look at say Charles Hapgood's early maps in his book Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings, it looks like some of those early maps were taken from a very sophisticated civilization, and in some cases it's questionable if they had flying apparatus, planes, satellites or whatever, because the view is so accurate and it's so ancient, tens of thousands of years because the North Paul has no ice.
And so when I look at this map that you have, this Antarctica map, it looks like it's could be thousands and thousands of years old. How do you explain that does bring us back to the glacial cosmogony, that brings us back to what today we refer as the Golden Age, when the gods walked, you know, on Earth. I'm thinking right now, for instance, like how come no one knew about vector when he from Chile? Of course, in another countries would be like not even a topic. You
know, how can we even know about the white gods? I'm going to you know, send pictures of respanic iconography with gods of blue eyes, with blue eyes? You know, how come we don't know about How can we even know about the impossible maps? You know? So once again we have this this like manipulation, We have this this like very very how can we put it, Cliff like this, I don't know even how to explain how
history has so wrong? How he This is what I'm boroused about. This is why we have you on the program, Raphael, is that here in the United States we get one version of history, a very myopic, one sided West Stern culture, non adiatic, non African centric, non anywhere else in the world point of view. We have a very very central focused,
I believe, out of touch. Uh look at history, and when we talk to you, we you bring in a whole new body of research and evidence that says the world was formed and it was populated by very sophisticated people that are not in our history books. Yeah. Well for instance too like trying to to to make sense like we have this trout Kifel, wonderful explorer, researcher. He presented his ideas, you know, in a prestigious institution as in the Amazon Jangle. He came up with a similar idea part of
the Amazona. You have famous years and years of studying the ruins of Tiajuanaco, of Pumapunko and of the Indian world in general. He claim up also that mankind came from the Andies. He actually wrote a book which was published after his death, and interestingly enough, the title was changed. The original title of Ponzlaski book was Tiajuanaco The Cradle of Mankind, and after his death the title changed into Fiaguanaco, the Cradle of South American Mankind, which is
something else. Let me go even farther than that. You have another interesting researcher, Juan Morris. I don't know if you have heard about him. He's the discoverer of the Taios Cave. Mhm no, the Taio's Cave are this? It's this like underground city in Ecuador where Nil Armstrong was also like part of. At one stage back in nineteen seventies or something like that, he was just returning from the moon and he was presented that there was another
horizon here on earth. He actually went all the way to Ecuador. Uh well, but the point is that one mode is also claimed that the European culture originated in South America before before the cultural horizon of the indigenous people. You know, then you have back Also in the nineteen thirties, German archeologist and explorer Edmund Kiss He also claimed about this very indigenous several civilizations that you
know have has been partially destroyed with these great flaws and work catastrophe. So what we have live here is that it's not just one researcher, it's not just one line of investigation or research that has claimed that there is another history. And you know you mentioned the existence of high tech civilizations. Well we
have we have just vestiges very in front of us. Last year we were in Tiaguena punk the blocks that blocks that we find that we can see that we can study in Puma Punko. Until today we have no idea who made them and how they were made, you know, and we have i would say many other sites throughout the world that have the same unanswered question. Wow.
So as we conclude, Raphael, I want you to talk a little bit about some of the ancient cities that you've actually seen that are thousands and thousands of years older than uh say two two Khan or Tikal or some of the big Maya cities. Talk a little bit about the El Plomo uh city that you discovered, and maybe one or two others that you've personally uh gone and visited. Well, Diplomo, it's it's where where is your Plomo? L Plomo? First, it's it's uh, it's in front of Santiago,
Chile. Okay, it's in the Andy's Mountain range. And you have to help me out because I it's like around five thousand, four hundred meters about sea level up there. Yeah, it's really it's really high. Actually, it took us around three days all the way to get up. I have been there twice. The very first time was very very cold, even though it was summertime for us. That was February of the Southern Hemisphere, and it was it was just three of us the ones that were able to reach
all the way. There's out that here, specially in South America and to scifically into the Andean world. You have this, I would say since the time of the Contista or is the idea of lost cities, of gold cities and you know, very impressive treasures. And it turns out that of what a half research, around nineteen twenty nine, some people phoned, you know, near Aploma golden idols you know that they sold to the Museum of Natural
History of Sage. So these people kept digging, you know, kept for searching, and in nineteen fifty four they discovered a mummy with a very rich group of figures, you know, in this tomb. And it was not at the summit of a Ploma, but nearby, so it was a very important archeological discovery. Actually some archeologists from the States game and of course of
Peru. Because the first idea these people had was that the Inca, that the mummy was from Inca origin, you know, because they are like common patterns you find, for instance in the textiles of the Afghan or Mapuches, almost the same symbols that you are going to find among the hobbies. Okay, So what they claim at the beginning was this is an income, I mean, and it's funny because they were covered by eyes around three to four
constructions, saying over five thousand meters above the sea level. So I have been myself. There are your hands, your feet, your face is freezing, even though you have all the appropriate clothing. Okay, I have no idea how this great, amazing people were able not only to go all the way yup two three four hundred, five hundred years ago, even more with clothes that didn't have any known technology, at least for us, you know.
So it turns out that ever since they're having you know, like archaeological studies also you know, scanner to they scanned the mummy, which turns out to be a boy who has until today, it's not part of any of the four regions of the Taiwan tim Suyo. So he's that mummy is not from that area, is what you're saying. It is not genetically. Genetically it could be either from the Titicaca Lake or from this Attakama desert. But he's not from from Cusco, He's not from the from an Inca inca royal
family. Of course, he belonged to a royal family to be sacrificed. Okay. Now what happens here is that these peercasts or way cast that is, sacred constructions that you find there, they have like alignment with the appearance of the Sun. Now I said, they have because you go today even though it's all the way, uh, it's very high. You you have just fragments of these constructions. I have no idea what happened. You know, you don't find these standing constructions there, you know, you just find
the basement of the of these uh, these sacred spaces. Okay. Now the most most of the figures, of these symbolic figures are part of the archaeological collection of them the historian Natural Santiago. Okay, now i've they're all what I have research. After all, what I have studied about this, this mummy. It's interesting to think, why would this whoever have this idea of bringing up and sacrifice these inti Wahwas or children of the sun because their
soul too high peak and this you know spaces. Why would they you know, carry this children of the Sun all the way there for sacrifice? Of course, of course there was goca leaves offerings. They were like to the ancestors, to the spirits of the monted and they're there are interesting facts that I would like to share, for instance, especially especially about this Inti Wahwa.
The observations of those witnesses are simply striking. All of them claim that the mummy seemed to have been sleeping without any sign of being a corpse. Let me stop you real quickly. When you're talking about these mummies, are you also talking about these these little girls they found frozen and they're perfectly preserved, that are thousands of years old? Yes, yes, okay, they're not. They're not mummies in the typical Egyptological sense where they're wrapped up.
No, no, no, But but I don't think that that was what they wanted. Whoever took these inti wah wah, I don't think they were. I don't think they were planning to have them wrapped us we have in Egypt, you know, because they kind of knew about these what I say, what I called palio cryogenization. They so to preserve these genetic memory of the descendants of the gods. They knew how to perceive DNA. In Chile, in Argentina, in Peru we have I would say, over one hundred
sides with children of the Sun up there. So I don't think it was just a random ritual per se ceremony to have brought the royal families, you know, of these descendants of the gods m I would say that these temple refuges in the high peaks, in the sacred spaces of the Andean worldview,
you know, where the perfect space for crionization. You know, they knew, they knew with another technology, that their blood, that the teeth that they heard they put in these sacred bags was going to be in one time, at one point analyzed, and that's what we have today. So you're you're saying that you believe the ancient people froze these younger mummies, so at some point in the future they would be brought back to life. Yes,
yes, and if not them, they genetical information they have. It's it's when when I came up with this, it was so striking for me because they have these little bags a gay made out of lama wool, and you have the archaeological description it contained teeth, hair, and nails. And once you start to study what are today fundamental preservers of DNA are hair, teeth, and nails. Wow, So I wonder how would they know what source
did they have? Of course probably the quote paleotechnology was enhancer or part of the knowledge of some And then with the pass of time, this scientific knowledge became part of a mythical, magical knowledge. But in both cases this DNA
was preserved. Why Cliff and all to all those friends that are listening to us, why would they clean up such such high peaks, such unreachable mountains that you don't even know if you're going to be able to return in a ploma Even today, some people die today, the glaciers are shrinking, are not as they were five hundred years ago or one thousand years years ago.
Okay, but even though it's when you when you are cleaning up, I don't know, like over five thousand, four thousand and five thousand meters, you you have another experience of life. You start to say, like, well, any times you can you know, fall down, and that's it. So let's think about why would these people do that, not only as
some people do today for sports, you know, for adrenaline. They were doing it for a sacred reason, you know, to preserve these bodies for what That's when I think that our ideas have to go beyond even what Baluceti means, and and and being myself a palocity research, I think this Inti war was the children of the Sun where sacrifice in the high speaks of the andies waiting for the return of the gods of the powerful Vida coaches. Question
is when and how would they wake up? And what message thus the genetic code of this mummy of diploma Curry. Yeah, amazing, Raphael Eisman. As always, it's a pleasure speaking with you, and we get an education on the research and the views of early man from South America. And there's so much to know and so much to take in. As we conclude, do you feel that the great waves of of UAPs that are in Chile and Peru and South America as a whole have any connection with these mummies whatsoever or
any of the current races of hominins. Yes, yes, I think they are like ancestral connections throughout throughout the world. And you mentioned something that actually like also happened to me, like why we're just learning history. I'm connected here in Chile, for instance, we were like told the history these are the for instance, the Prespanic groups, and thus are today our boundaries. That doesn't mean that there were those boundaries in the past. Oceans have never
been boundaries. On the opposite, they have been the connection fields. You know, from South America and North America Asia, also in the Atlantic side. So I think at one point the evidence where we're finding, when we're you know, like researching, it's going to bring us necessary to understand there was another history in the past, and of course there's another history in the present, right, excellent. How can people get more information from you?
Give us your Facebook page, your Twitter, your Instagram, all right, so that people can people can get more information. It's up over usman dot blogspot dot com. And I'm going to send you some minutes from now link to our website where we have you know, so perfect, Yeah, send me some photographs. Will create a gallery on Facebook of these mummies. Oh I will, and of the symbology from the early the early races that migrated from Antarctica. Yes, I will. Okay, fantastic, My friend.
Has been a pleasure as always, and we'll have to talk to you again. Thank you for your time. Thank you Cliff for inviting me. It's always a pleasure and a lot to beat. Part once again of another interview. Thanks as always. It's an interesting interview to have Raphael on his reference to books by rningfo Are A bit of a challenge because when I find them. They're all in Spanish, and I do know that there are a few articles. And by the way, I am going to post the article.
It's called Robertal ringingfo and the Polar Antarctic Origins of Mankind. I'm going to post it in its entirety. Plus look for the galleries. Now, there's some examples of this light skin race that are indigenous people, and there are in Chile, but they're also in Peru. There's a couple of examples, and there are a number of examples of these white gods, the Verracocha that he has sent me. So look for that gallery on Facebook Earth Ancients Facebook.
It's going to be on the fan page and the group page, so there's two places to find it. The other thing is this interesting child mummy that was found the high Peruvian Mountains. What mean weigh the heck up in the mountains? Like over? I think I think it's like twenty thousand feet, just some incredible height. You can see that video on Facebook. There's no other way for me to get it to you. Oh excuse me. You can actually also see it on Earth Ancients dot com under Facebook feed.
If you're not a fan of the social media side. It's the only way you can see this video, these galleries and these evidence of the vera cuchia. So much more to know, so much we don't know. Again, in the beginning of this program, I mentioned that we are very limited because of Western culture's inability or lack of interest in using other sources of information on
Homo sapien sapien on the evolution and kind and the migration. You know, the story that we get is bearing straight to the Americas, and that's just not true. It's turning out it's it's completely false. Whatever humans did trickle down there, there was a few of them. It's looking more and more like maritime people traveled to the Americas by boat, either through the Atlantic or
the Pacific. And now with Regufos information, here's another aspect of mankind developing in an art and Antarctica than migrating north through South America into North America. We just don't know enough about it, you know, until somebody finds a codex, some some historical notions about where man evolved, it really looks like there were like we're a petri dish, and what that means is that there were spawnings of Homo sapiens in China, in Australia, in Africa, in
America or Antarctica. And that's just shows that is the great possibility. How do these early hominins arrive at these locations, evolve, become Homo sapiens, and then migrate through those locations I just mentioned. It's really fascinating, but it's also confusing because it's like, well, who's right and who's wrong?
To say that what we read in our history books is the only way and is the right way is becoming not only a problem, but most likely the wrong perspective to take, and our own arrogance, and I should say our historians arrogance, and you get this in National Geographic, the Smithsonian, just our general associated press news that Africa is the spawning ground for Homo sapiens is wrong, And why this is not being corrected is anyone's guest, But most
likely it's the fact that we just are refusing, or I should say Western historians refused to rewrite history, and so, like I said, they tend to take documents more seriously than any other oral traditions. And it won't in our lifetime. It will probably stay that way and then the next the next generations will start using oral traditions, and maybe by that time new documents will will come out that reveal that there are a number of locations where Homo sapiens
were spawned and developed. Fascinating consideration and something to think about. Hey, I want to mention thank you, thank you, thank you for all the happy birthday wishes on my Facebook page. I I, you know, birthdays come and go, and I had a little gathering, but you know, your your thank you're well wishing and birthday wishes were really heartfelt and just made
me feel great, you know, and I appreciate them. So those of you who reached out through Facebook and wished me a happy birthday, thank you. I was very happy to hear from so many people. It's always nice to be appreciated. So thanks. All right, Hey, I want to promote a couple of tours that are coming up. We still have a few spots left for our annual Mexico tour. It is November tenth to the seventeenth.
We're gonna be in southern Mexico. We meet in Villa Homosa, which is the heart of the OMEC world, where we venture over to Leventa for a day. We're gonna see the museums. One of the world's most formidable outdoor museums is in Leventa. Will be there. We're gonna see the ruins, and then weep bus to Polanki, one of the crown jewels of the Maya dynasty. Our guest host is doctor Edwin Barnhard. He will show us the basics on day one of plank and then on day two we're gonna have
an archaeological view that no one really sees. This is the areas that have not been excavated. This is temple's pyramid buildings, ruins that are in C two. They haven't been touched. He is going to show us these locations, which is very very special and unique. I have been one to go and have somebody show me some of the C two ruins in Yucatan. I think I might ask ed to see if we can do that. But he has special permission because he excavated and surveyed, created one of the only maps
of Planki in existence, so that is fantastic. The next day after that we go to bottom Pack and a few other sites. This is a short seven day tour, but you don't want to miss it. We have a few spaces left, and when I say a few, I think we're at twenty two. I think we'll go to twenty five. So if you want to join us, it's November tenth through the seventeenth, twenty twenty three. For more information, go to earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tours. You'll
see the banner, click on it. Get your reservation in as soon as possible, get your deposit in and join us. That is tour number one. Now the world class tour is coming up. We announced it. That is our Grand Egyptian Tour number five. That's April twenty eight through May ninth, twenty twenty four. This is a classic tour and we're about half full. This is a chance to see the great Ruins the Pyramids as a private
tour. In other words, we go there without the general public. We're in a private, comfortable, air conditioned bus and it is a great, great tour. For more information go to Earth Ancients dot com, forward slash tours t o u r S. Get your deposit in like now. Because we're growing, I don't take more than a bus of people and that's maxine out at about forty people. So we're at twenty five or twenty six,
I can't remember, but we're growing. That's a wonderful tour. If you've ever wanted to come with us, consider it and I'll tell you why. It's half the price that you pay for a general tour of this kind. Twelve days of complete, all your accommodations are covered. It is wonderful, it is a pleasure. It's a vip or as Muhammad and I like to say, it is a diplomat tour because you're being taken care of like a diplomat from your city, state, country, world that you come from.
So come out and join us, all right now, The final tour for twenty twenty four is Turkey. We are now taking reservations for a first time ever Turkey tour. That means School Backley, Teppi, Carahan, Teppi, Darren Curu and many many, many other sights to see in this world class tour. If you would like to join us, and we're already over halfway full, I don't have the temporary out yet, it's about to be the release, but send me an email, Cliff, I want to join you,
Send me more information. Send it to Earth Ancients, the number four, the letter you at GM Earth Agents for you at gmail dot com. I'll get you on the list. I'll send you the itinerary and more information. This is a world class, fascinating tour led by Mohammad Embrium and a number of different scientists and archaeologists throughout the tour, and it's gonna be a fascinating I've not been to these parts before and so come out and join us
and check it out. We love doing tours and I'll have to mention this also, we do them at fifty percent or more of the general costs that most tour companies charge, so that should be enough for you to consider a vacation with us. And we have a great time, So come out and join us. All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest today, Raphael Eisman, coming to us from Chile, South America. As always, the team of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster and everyone
who makes makes this thing happen. Thank you so much, and you guys rock all right, take care of me well and we will talk to you next time.