You know, I've always questioned the biblical angels that come to help or threatened us. Who can think of Gabriel or Michael or Lucifer the fallen Angel. But in today's program, we're going to look at an historical group of angels who came and assisted not only the figures in the Bible, but have been documented in their interactions with different kings and other important people down through the ages.
Are these beings on a realm close to the human physical experience, some realm that we are born into, and these beings are here to help. Today's program is the Ancient tradition of Angels with my returning guest Normandy Ellis. All this and more today on Earth Ancients for Saturday, May six, twenty twenty three. This is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, Hi, how are you. I hope you're doing well on this
Saturday. Welcome to Earth Ancients. When we talk about angels, we can immediately go to the Bible and other religious traditions and think of these beings as these winged creatures who are summoned by the Lord God Yaoi and other religious traditions have names for their gods but today we're going to talk about the possibility that these beings come from a dimension that is aligned with our own, and not only do they come to assist us, they come to present lessons, they
come to in many ways help us live this human existence. Now, it's funny because when you think of angels, you don't really think of anything other than the winged creatures. But there is evidence and there are reports of beings that are considered angels who are able to pass through into our dimension and then back into wherever they're located. There hasn't really been a study that I have found where research was conducted to discover where the beings known as angels come from.
If it is a trick of light. No one's really substantiated angels until my program today, and we're talking with somebody who has done some significant research and written a book on ancient traditions of angels right up to the present time. And I'm fascinated in this topic simply because as somebody who is a regular meditator who follows some of the Hindu traditions like yoga. I'm just mentioned meditation. These other realms are places that are you're able to contact and move into
if you're interested in that. I haven't been really interested in angels, although I've had as a program director over the years people who have written extensively about angels, and I would say up to, oh, I don't know, five or six years ago, the angel phenomenon was pretty strong. People were
communing with their angels. There were people who changed their names from their birth name to given angel names, and I think it gets kind of crazy at that point, but there is something about this that is significant, and there are reports of people calling to their angels in times of distress. Again, if you're a religious person, you may have been taught that that angels come in all shapes and sizes and experiences. But we don't have and this is
what's interesting about today's program. We don't really have an understanding of the different levels of angels. We know that there's major angels like Michael and Gabriel and of course Luther, the fallen angels, and we've got to be careful not to fall into the Nephelim, the fallen angels, who are featured in a number of different authors works, and then we can also cross into the Zecharia Sitchen Nephelim, which is a whole different animal, so we got to be
careful on that one. But today we are going to discuss the historical interactions between angelic beings and in question, if these beings are part of our physical reality, how did they get there, What is the basis of their interaction. Is there a hierarchy of these beings, and how do they fall within
the human condition? Do we? I mean, because some people report that there are angels around us all the time, that there are angels that are assigned to us, and they are there for you to call when you need comfort, when you need guidance. We've had some people on this program who confess that they have called into the angelic realm for support, for help when they are not well, for help and decision making. So that's kind of
interesting when you think of it like that. They're not just there to call when you're having a problem. Perhaps they're there to attend to questions of important questions, decision making, lifestyle, so forth, and so on. So there's a great deal to consider when we start talking about angels. So today's program is with my guest author Norman d Ellis, and we've had Norman d
on the number of times. She has chronicled a number of ancient historical events, and we had her previously talking about ancient Egyptian traditions, oral traditions, and the new book that she's written is called The Ancient Traditions of Angels, The Power and Influence of Sacred Messengers. This is our program today. Each year Earth the Ancients heads to Mexico for a private tour of some of the
most intriguing ruins from the Maya and other Mesoamerican cultures. This year, November tenth to the seventeenth, will be heading to Vera Hamosa in southern Mexico to see the site of the omec Ruins at Laventa. This includes a visit to the world famous outdoor museum where there are megalists of all sizes and shapes. We then head to Plank in Chiapis and visit this jewel of the Maya Empire,
with doctor Edwin Barnhart as our host. We'll be there for two days, and then we head out to Bottompeck, site of one of the largest murals left to us from the Maya Classic period. For more information and details on this tour, go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours and we'll see the entire itinerary and more details. This is a one of a kind
tour with doctor ed Barnhart and Yours Truly. For more information, Earth Ancients dot Com, forward slash Tours. I would say I have had a fascination with angels for a while, and I've always wondered what are angels? Where did they come from? There's always a religious connotation when you speak of angels, and I guess that's a little bit of a problem for me. I'm
not a religious person. I was raised a Protestant, and angels are discussed in the Bible, and the pastor and friends would talk about angels, but I guess I don't really know a great deal about them until now. My guest today has written a book on angels called The Ancient Tradition of Angels, The Power and Influence of Sacred Messengers, and we have with us today Norman d Ellis. She is a prolific writer. I think we had her on a couple of years ago, maybe sooner, speaking on traditions in Egypt.
But this is a very important book on a number of levels, simply because it doesn't simply get into the spiritual side of it and quote the Bible and give us a pathway into understanding them through biblical texts. It actually is much much more serious than that, and it gets into historical references in different parts of the world on just how they perceive angels. And what makes this book also quite interesting is Normandy presents her own encounters with angels. So this is
gonna be a fun show. So hey, Normandy, welcome back to Earth Ancients. Great to see you. Great to see you too, Thanks for having me back. All right, you opened the book, and I have to say, you present a story of your belief that an angel was there
when your daughter was conceived. Oh yeah, And I was thinking really uh, And then I have to I have to say that I had a similar situation, but it wasn't at the conception of my son, but at the time my wife and I were thinking of having a child, and it was very mystical and very strange, and it felt like there was a presence around us for a period of time. And then it's funny that because I was reading this, reviewing your book again and thinking and going wow, that kind
of reminds me of my situation. Why did you think it was an angel that made me think it was an angel. Yeah, I guess I thought in retrospect it was an angel. At the time, I just thought there was some vibration, some music that was following us the retail, and you know, at first I thought it was coming from one of the houses where we had passed on our walk, and it just kept following us. It followed us through the whole town. Wow, and that was beautiful, and
I thought, where where's that coming from? You know, And and anyway, so that was the night that she was conceived, and it was later, oh gosh, some sometime later, you know, Um, I had a dream about angelic beings standing over this huge caltron of the world and creating uh, I guess you would say astrological constellations like planets and square and planets
conjunct and you know, planets in this in particular sign. And so I was helping them make this plate, you know, putting them all together, and the angels I said, who, that looks like a really interesting chart. That person's going to like got some really big work to do, and the angels go, yeah, so jump in. Yes. So it was like I kind of put that dream of my own conception. I'll say, into what was happening with Elena, and I was hearing the music of the
spheres. I think I was just hearing these things moving around me, vibrations, tones, And that's what angels are to me. They are constructions of vibrations and tones and energies that move around us and take form. I wanted to I wanted to ask you, and you work with in traditions of various
ancient people. You write about the initiation and traditions of Egyptians and so forth and so on, would you say that the incarnation of a physical being like yourself, like us here on Earth, is in one realm, and then
the angelic realm is connected in some way. In other words, if we're on this physical realm, but we also have if we understand our ancient spiritual roots, that there is a physical and then there's these uric fields that are around us, and then perhaps there's other levels of consciousness that are written about. Did the angels fall into that area somewhere? Yeah? I think they do. I think that. Uh. I think it was meister Eckhart who said, that's all an angel is an idea of God, you know.
So it's it's a it's a level of consciousness UM that expands down to us because we are also levels of consciousness. Although we have free will, all light is a level of consciousness. So we and the angels are of the same, are kindred spirits in a way. Yeah yeah, so so on some level we incarnate from a soul or spared into a physical body. Where does the angel fall? How? How do we understand? Is their writing about the incarnation of an angel or are they always present? I believe they're
always present. That each human soul has its own, what they would say in the East ishtadvata, their own personal angel, their own personal divinity that guards them and protects them. It cannot keep us from exerting our own free will. But we don't always do what our angels want us to do, you know, And a lot of times we want to do stuff that's not good for us. So the angels will kind of try to manipulate things around so that that doesn't happen, you know, or give us the message that
idea, you know. But I think it's um. I think that there there are a level of consciousness that is permeating the entire universe, all of them, and that they are like a little uh if we could think of it on a molecular scale, they're you know, they're like molecules and atoms that are part of a larger body. Interesting. You know, it's funny because I was thinking you in many ways, you've written a science of angels, the scientific approach to them, who they are, in many ways,
how they function in this book, the ancient tradition of angels. It's fascinating that the Bible is so filled with angelic contact. You know, What's was it that people at the time that the Bible is written, and of course it's gone through just various iterations and version. Was it was it that people were more sensitive to the asiatic presence in the u during the time of the
figures of the Bible or what? Well, that's a good question. I mean, I'm sure it's it's because of a prevalence of a belief in angels that come to us through um, you know, like the Zoroastrians and and folks like that, through the Egyptians. I wouldn't exactly say they called them angels, but they had spirit beings, winged spirit beings, UM. And I believe the UH the Jewish tradition was likewise with many many angels. You find so many more angels in the Old Testament than you do in the New
Testament. And the reason for that, so I was told, was that Jesus was to become the fulfillment of the prophecies of the angels, and so there are fewer angels that are doing things, but he seems also to be surrounded by them at various times in various stories. Yeah, yeah, let's get into it. What is an angel? What in your definition? Uh? Where do they fall? What? What I mean? We'll talk about what their function is, but what is a What is an angel? Well,
I'll go back to what meister Eckhart said. It's an idea of God. You know, it's God's idea. Uh, it's his messenger. It's a messenger that comes from the Creator. So the great cosmic essence being whatever you want to call it, you know, He she him it. They. Um, you know, maybe they because in the Bible it says God says we have made them like us when he used to talking about people. So maybe it's a they. But I believe that angels are the way that
the universe communicates with itself. It's it's like they're messengers. But when you're sleeping, you have messengers in your sleep that come to you. We don't always call them angels, but there are beings from the spirit world that come and tell us things and scare us away from certain paths. And yeah, so I think that's more or less what they are. That there's their thought
forms that the Body of God has created for us. We have to consider stretch our minds a bit to consider that we are also the body of God. You know that we are as much as the angels are. We are the body of God. We're particularly different species because so they say we have free will and the angels do not read that in your book, I was like, why would why would the creator manifest a being or beings and not allow them to have free will? Well, hey, some good question.
There's something about the servitude. It's like, okay, you are an angel, and we're got in a second here ask you about the function of an angel. But it's almost like you are in servitude to these physical beings on the planet of Earth, and so because you're in servitude, you're not allowed to have free will. Right, It's almost like that's almost like what it's all about. But that's just curious. We're God's science experiment. Well that's
really interesting. That's a fascinating fact that we would be an experiment. Um. What what are the functions of an angel? What they are a creation of h Yeah, they're made to so they say, they're made to worship God, to announce God's presence in the world. They're made as messengers, um, so to give us a clue as to what God's will might be in a particular area. And they are also if God says this is what I need to have happened, you know, like uh, sorry Adam and
Eve, but you got to leave the garden. The angels are gonna you know, take care of that as well. So they do three things to my understanding. Interesting, and you know we hear about the angel protectors, the angel messengers. Um, there's even um stories of warrior angels. I'm not sure you probably know the specific names of these angels, but they all have names and personalities. It sounds like right, there are like the ninety nine names of God, although there are many many more than nine. They
are and ask each angle in aspect of God. You know, it's like, Um, God's fire, God's h warmth, God's beginning, God's ending. You know. He's like, yeah, So the angels have names that are healers. Uh, you know that are all the capacities that we need for angelic beings on, you know, to help us keep earth going. Okay, So, as a as a servitude being, would you say that
they are assigned to individuals when you call on them? Or are they assigned to groups like a family or how does how do they function in terms of the servitude? Well, I think I think it's hard for us who are physical entities to think of them as non entities, but they are. They are a conglomerate of energies. An angel is a conglomerate of energies, a conglomerate of consciousness. It's like the molecules that make up gold. There's more
than one molecule. So you can have a molecule of gold, and I can have a molecule gold and it can still be the same gold and doing the same thing that gold does. Um. So that's how the angels work. They're they're part of a sort of like their quantum. It's the best way to explain them their quantum. Okay, that's deascinating. You mentioned a hierarchy of angels, and there's a number of famous biblical angels that like Michael and a whole series of names. Um, if there's these major angels,
what are they like overlords or demi goddess or are they like generals? How do we how do we characterize these these these noted angels. I think they've always been described as as part of God's army, whatever that means, you know, because we're used to thinking of it, and in that term, the hierarchical ways that they're looked at. I mean, I don't know that a hierarchy of top to bottom is the way that we should look at them, because in that case, the arcane just would be closer to the bottom
than they would be to the top. But there are Cherubim and Seraphim and oh my gosh, there's like nine levels of angels. Some are are just whirling wheels of light. Some of them are eyes, you know, some of them have multitudinous wings, so they say, you know, eight to twelve to ten, some are burning, some are you know, there's the
thrones, the virtues, the you know. I mean, I'm not all steeped up on my Catholic unless I'm reading it from But there's a whole bunch of them, you know, Seraphim, Cherubim, the thrones, the virtues, and then down at the bottom there's the archangels and then the angels just the regular day to day personal feeling angels. M fascinating. So the yeah, so the archangels are are They're the closest thing that we can identify as
angelic with wings and human form and you know that kind of thing. Um, And whether that's what they look like or not, I have no idea. You do mention that you've had a sense of them being in your presence, like flashes of light and perhaps a feeling or a pressure on your like they're touching your shoulder or something like that. Um. The classic sense of
an angel as a being in long swathing clothes and and wings. Is that a good approximation or have there been over the centuries different views of them in terms of their appearance? Well, there are different views and in terms of their appearance, like the Islamic angels have more of a fiery aspect to them.
Okay, they're more flame oriented. The the Devatas of the Eastern tradition don't really have wings, but they have these long flowing robes that just seem to float in the air, you know, and that's what carries them up. So again, it's a perception, you know, of how we see the angels. Okay, let's talk a little bit about their abilities. They seem to be, you know, somewhat demigoddish in a way of being able to make things happened. Uh, they going to be in a protective mode.
What do we know about their the their abilities? Um? They you know, the stories that we have of angels that Okay, I want to I want to tell a story about Eliezer ben Judah of worms. He was the Jewish rabbi that was kind of responsible for figuring out who all these angels were and was like a precursor to John Dee. Okay, So he had he had this angelic code of light that he would use to speak with angels.
He would write them letters. He saw them all as part of gamatria, you know, or numbers and geometry, and that's the way that he perceived them. Um. And I'm going to just say the were his angels, but he um, he began to work with them to sort of influence events in a way, which is not necessarily what we should be doing with angels. You know, we shouldn't be trying to send them out to do our laundry or something. But he worked with these angels to take messages to
God to do these certain things, and he was granted. He was living in precarious times. His wife and his daughter were killed by the Christian crusaders who came into his home and and they, you know, they thought she had a lot of money, and they burnt things down. And so anyway, he had these students, and the students who studied with him wanted to go to one side of town to meet this profit. And they had to go through a difficult part of town. And Eliezer been Judas said don't,
don't do it, you know, it's too dangerous. And they said, no, we're gonna go. We've got the angels with us, and he said, that's not what they're for. So anyway, they went, and they used all the protections and the spells that they knew to keep the angels on their side, and they went and they were unharmed, and um when they got back and they told the rabbi what they had done. He said, no, no, you cannot treat them that way. You cannot treat
them as if they're your personal you know, slaves. Your soul is too meant to build and develop on its own. It's not for you to go and do the things that are harmful and then try to wiggle your way out of it. He said, so, if you don't want to be in trouble with the angels, you have to go back there and go back there without the angels. Right. So they said, okay, So they went back there without the angels and they died. No boy. Yeah, it was like, oh so, I don't know if that was kind of a
harsh lesson. Yeah, you know, but that's a story that they tell about how and why not to ask angels to do your bidding, you know, only not my will. But fine, that's how we approach the angels, and that's how the angels approach their role from God. You know. It's like, well, maybe I don't think it's such a good idea that you give these humans free will, but if that's what you want to do, will do whatever you want us to do. God. I think there's
sort of some correlation to those two stories. That's a brutal lesson those those people learned in accessing the angel realm. How would you say, we're supposed to work with angels? Are we supposed to only have them come and give us inspiration as needed? Or is it more of they you call in and it because we've had people on the program who apparently work with the angelic realm and they are called to help during times of distress, as you just your
example shows. But in other cases it could be people wanting to know what their angel name is. I think that could be a little too far. But you know, in this day and age, a lot of things go that the so called New Age movement talk about abuse, you know, getting the angel to give you your angel name. I don't know if that's all about. But what do you say is a purpose in terms of what they can be? How do we interact with them? Well, Um, char
Casey used to summon angels. He summoned Michael. Michael was the one who came to him and gave him messages of healing and prophecy. And you know, I think that was a good use of the angel. Yeah, you know, there was a wonderful use of the angel, and he had this large group of people who loved being with him and talking to Michael and talking about what Michael had to say about the future of the world. And then
one time this angel came in named Halliel. It was an angel that was not invited but was on the sidelines, and you know, Vetted apparently came in and Edger Casey started talking about visions of the end of the world, and the people said, no, we don't want to talk to that angel anymore. And he said, well, he's coming to tell you some information that you need to know, so well, we don't want to talk to him anymore. And so Casey had to say, sorry, but they don't
want to talk to you anymore. Um, yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, you actually I remember reading that. That interesting the bringer of bad news in a way angel. Um yeah, that's amazing. Did did Was there any other communication with any angels in Casey's a fascination of mine, So when you brought that out, Wow, yeah, amazing. H Did he have any other angels that communicated through him as a as a channel. I believe that he did, but those were the two public ones. Yeah.
If that makes sense. Yeah, of course, Rudolph Steiner, he had Michael, you know, come and work with Rudolph Steiner head and he came and worked with his teachers. He Michael came and taught through Rudolph Steiner to his Waldorf School teachers. Wow and us. And the first lesson that all the kids got when they came to school was to a picture of Michael on the board, because he's always there to protect you. Yeah, so
Michael Muss became a celebrated day. Michael must September twenty five amazing. In your book, you you explained that we have souls, We incarnate many many times, but angels don't have souls. I find that amazing. And it's almost like they are ever present, ageless beings that you know, are here on an unseen level, but they're still kind of around us. Talk a little bit about that, would you, Okay, I, you know, And a lot of it's only going to be from my own poor understanding of
what I think is going on there. I believe that we have souls because we are here to experience life, that formless being created for us. So that he could understand I'm saying, he could be a she e, so that that being could understand what life was. He's I mentioned before, it was like an experiment. Let's see what they do, Let's see what they know, Let's see how they respond to all of this. And so in a way, we live our lives and we have karmic responsibility for our thoughts.
That's basically our thoughts before our deeds. We have karmic responsibility for that. And so that is a way that God will call, you know, the large being comes to know itself it's possibilities. It's through the choices that the creations have made for it. Now the angels are just created as you know, the servants of but where the oh, what do we say? Like the foot soldiers in the in the life pattern. But we're a part
of God. We're a piece of God, and we have these godlike abilities to keep generating new lifetimes because we want to learn about this experience known as Gaya or Earth. And it's always been told to me that, you know, it's kind of like a college university and we can go back and forth and experience lifetimes on Earth to you know, and have people around us to
interact with. And that's just kind of a lesson, and what you're saying is that these angels are part of that in some way, which is interesting. They're there to kind of either be like umpires, I don't know if that's a good term, or or more overseers to make sure that the life, perhaps the lifetime script is fulfilled. Would that be a good assessment, Yeah, that the lifetime script is fulfilled? Yeah, I think so. Of course we have free will not to fulfill it. Yeah, but yeah,
what would be the point in that? We've got to get a short commercial break and we will return quickly with our guest, Normandy ls in her book The Ancient Tradition of Angels. We'll be right back. Hey, guys. After three years of restrictions COVID based problems, Contact in the Desert is back. It's back in Indian Wales, California. It's a suburb of Palm Springs and it is an amazing world class conference. From June second through the
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sure to stop by and see me. We'll be there recording interviewing and I'd love to hear from you yet. Contact in the Desert June second to the fourth for more information Contact in the Desert dot com. I guess today is Norman d Ellis, who has written a new book called The Ancient Tradition of Angels, The Power and Influence of Sacred Messengers. And we're getting a sense of just what these biblical angels were all about and their function here on earth.
You know, it's funny because I'm just trying to you know, we're talking on religious connotation, but you actually in a minute here, I want to talk about these Yazzi yaz Ed angels. Those are a fascinating type of angels. Talk for a little bit about the different kinds of angels. Are the specific types that have appear to have quite a a lot of ability. So who what are they? The yaz Z and the Yazis are well Yazad means God, okay, so in their language, the Yazdis are a group
of people who are fairly isolated. They live in Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq area. Now now what we know is now rares around there, and they're fairly isolated. They are not Sufi's, but they are a little bit like Sufi's. They have religion that is not written down, it's it's delivered mouth to ear. So they are not the people of the book, you know, they are different. They're divinely inspired and received messages from the angels.
And the big angel is named Tsmellic, who's a peacock angel, and he would be kind of like what we would think of as as a Michael. He was in heaven and he came to Earth and m yeah. He They basically created all of the Yazedi people. They believed that they are descended from angels. That's fascinating and that's in their history, I guess, huh. And the word that they have for angel is Mellick Emmy llie k And you know, I think that's why Hollywood gave Raymie Mellick, who was Freddie Mercury
in the movie. He's Yazdi who grew up in London. But I think they gave him the cold shoulder because he was a little odd. But I think that's fascinating. I think it's very fascinating. And do these people regularly commune with the angel realm? Oh? Yeah, they are. They have these sheikhs who are called Shamsies and they are embodiments, believe that they are
embodiments or at least partially embodying angels. And they stand up on the edge of the cliffs in the morning before the sun rises, and they sing the sun up. That's their job, is to sing the sun into rising every morning. And I think that that's connected to what we think of as Rumi's friend Shams was a sun singer. You know, we don't know much about Shams, but from what I can tell when I start reading about him and things that apparently he wrote, he probably was a Yazedi. That's fascinating.
Do you have a sense that this uh Yazdi group is perhaps a last end and of perhaps earlier people, pre flood, people that had regular communication with the angelic Realm? And I asked this question because you mentioned the ancient Hindus and that the fact, the fact that the rig Veda mentions angels, and that's one of the oldest books in the world that we still had right right. Um, the Yazidis are akin to because they live so close to Mount
Arrarat, they're akin to Noah. Excuse me. And they are also descendants of Noah. And we know his story is that he was told that there was going to be a big flood and to build the arc, and so he did and that's where his arc landed and that's where he got off. But he um, he built it according to a book that has disappeared, a sacred book. Uh, that was called the Book of Rosael, which
is a book of angels and a book of magic. It's the Book of Rosael has all kinds of things about numerology and astrology and gamatria and angelic names and alchemy and you know, and and also plant medicine and what kind of stuff would do what and it was it was The story goes that the books
were given to Adam. It was the originally the Book of Adam that that God gave to Adam as a consolation prize because he had been thrown out of the kingdom and Adam was so upset us, and so God said, okay, I'll teach you some of the secrets of heaven, but don't show the angels. Okay. So Adam has this book and the angels come to him and say, oh, Adam, what's in the book? You know?
Until he starts reading to him, and anyway, he gets in trouble and they take the book is taken away from him, and he's thrown into the river up to his neck in water for I don't know thousands of years until he's all old and wrinkly, and finally God feels sorry for him and gives him the book back, and it's handed down from to his sons, to their sons, to so and so until it manages to get into the hands of Noah. And after the flood, the story goes that the book disappears.
So who knows about the book the magic book? You know? Yeah? Yeah, but Noah and the people have descended from Noah. We're supposed to be in touch with the angels that could understand and read the book. Fascinating. Um, And you mentioned Genesis. There's an angel in Genesis that you write about it, and I'm gonna try to speak his name. Is is it tas Melick. Yeah, that's the peacock Angel. Well that's the
one you mentioned. Yeah, that's the peacock Angel. And it must have been a fairly high level angel just because of the function of his ability, Right, he created all this the sub angels beneath him, like archangels beneath him who embodied then embodied themselves into physically into sheikhs later. So he's kind of like a archangel Michael. But some people think that the archangel Michael, the Angel of Light, is also Samael, who is Lucifer. So there's
like this connection between those two that some cultures make. What the truth is, I have no idea. It's fascinating. Let's talk about fallen angels. What are fallen angels? Are those truly angels who have not followed the guidance of the Lord and have fallen off the tree? Or is there some other
indiscretion that they performed that got them in trouble? I like I like your phrase, have fallen off the tree, because supposedly every angel's name is written on the leaves of the Tree of Life, and the ones that fell off were the falling leaves. That was good. That was a good one.
Uh, let's see what are fallen angels. Um. I can never wrap my mind around the fact that there's some supposed to have no free will and yet they will fully disobey God. Yeah, they say, they say, I'm not going to help you make that that human person, because you know they're going to be your downfall. They're going to be your trouble. And God says, no, I want you to go get me to clay and so I can make them. And even the Earth Angel, the Guya angel, says nope, I'm not going to give you my clay. No,
they're going to be your downfall. They'll ruin the world. And God says, you know, this is my great experiment. You know you'll do what I say. And it's the Angel. I think Gabriel is the one that gets everything that is needed together to make mankind, which some say is the reason that he's so invested in being the primary messenger to humankind. Gabriel is the primary messenger angel because he's he agreed to put it all together, so
he has to keep us all on the straight and arrow. So and when you say messenger, he's spoken about in of course the Bible and other scriptures but does he come up and you, I would think as somebody who could see the signs of him, Gabriel, Is he appearing in the works of certain individuals like political leaders. Is his influence on artisans of the day? Talk a little bit about what his influence might be. I don't know. That's such a really good question. I'm sure he's still making his influence.
Felt um, he seems I would I would not be able to answer that question, Okay. I was curious because you know, the way you write and the details that you have in your book make me think that there are the influences of the angels, those voices in the back of our mind, the inspiration, the muse as we call it for the artisan people, even the adventure the inventors, the scientists have muses that they that come to them
when they sleep or when they're daydreaming. And you know, there's a story of Einstein, uh, kind of falling into a light sleep and then he invented M square you know, am equals square or whatever. Yeah, Um, I think that those are angels. I think, in my opinion, Gabriel is the one who's doing most of the teleporting of information to humankind. He's the one who announces the births of Jesus and so on. But he's all the one who laid the green scarf into the lap of Muhammad and said
recite, you know, and that was the Koran. And it just you know, sometimes when you're working as a writer. I know, when I'm working, sometimes it doesn't feel like it's me. It's coming through me. But yeah, and I don't know that I would say I'm channeling Gabriel, but there's some definite energy there that's helping me. Yeah, And you have to wonder, does our unconscious I work with the angelic realm to bring through information, inspiration, life saving data, so forth and so on. Are
we intrically involved with this angelic realm as part of humanity? I mean, that's what I'm curious about. Well, I think so. You know, the whole thing about Linda's Farn in Scotland was because Dorothy McLean and her husband Peter, they got in meditative states, they got information, They were talking to the angels and they told them, you know, dig here, plant these things. I mean, they were able to grow cabbages that were this big, you know, they were able to grow in places that you know,
it was sand and seawater, and how could they do that? But the angel said, we'll take care of it, we'll figure it out. So they built this whole community at Linda's Farn that was based on that, and I think that's really fascinating. Now they listened to their angels Peter or Peter what was his name, Peter? Oh my goodness, I wish I could remember his last name. Anyway, interesting. Yeah, I'm just I'm just I'm curious because you know, we're always wondering this, uh, these
other vibrational levels that are part of the human condition. And you know, for those of us who are not religious, who who don't read the Bible or the Quran or or the cabal and these other books of religious living, you know, that's where we're getting the information about the angels. But for those regular joes, I guess for me, I'm thinking this r talk with angels? Or me you're wondering, can I talk with angels? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Okay? Is it? Is it a gift? Or
I mean, are you say, are you considered as sensitive? Or is this something that anyone can access. Mary Oliver had this phrase that she said she has in one of her poems that says, only if there are angels in your head will you ever see or experience one? So they're already there.
They're part of your consciousness. There they questions. They have access to us because they're part of our consciousness because in a very quantum way, we're made of light as the angels are, and quantum mechanics tells us that no two things that have ever been to get there at any one time can be lost from each other. Even across the expanses of the universe, we still have a connection. And yeah, so I think that that's that's part of
it. The book's called The Ancient Tradition of Angels, The Power and Influence of Sacred Messengers, And I'm speaking with Norman d Ellis talk a little bit about this, Uh, the main fallen angel, Lucifer, and where he fits as a fallen angel because he's supposed to be the one who suggests evil things and perverts us and turns people into zombies and stuff like that. I mean, I don't know how far it gets, but what is it about arts out is samael. Did you ever see the show Lucifer on TV?
Oh? I love that show. I love it too, and I started looking at it through the lens of like, okay, is this correct? Is this correct? And a lot of it seems like it fit to what my understanding was. And I'll just quote the Lucifer on that show. He said, I didn't make you do anything. I only punished you for doing it. Oh, and so I think that it's like, yeah, that's
pretty interesting. Yeah. So is he one of the ones that that decided to go against the God and not follow directions and then he was banished from the higher levels of their dimensions. Yeah, he was the one who said, I do not want to participate in making of humans because they're just going to come to no good end, you know, And I'm not going to do it, and I don't you can't make me do it, and so
God casts him out, you know. And when God said okay, you got to go to the farthest ends of the universe, he and his other angels at the farthest ends of the universe. So the story goes look down and they see humanity and they say, okay, we're going to come down there and see what they're up to. So that's where we have the whole stories of the fallen angels and the new Feelum and you know, like yeah, right, so, and I don't know whether I believe the Feelam or
the children of angels or ancient aliens. You know, it gets confusing if you follow the Bible too quickly and then you read Zecharia Sitchen's work because the nifflin or ets according to him. So yeah, yeah, talk about angels who can become embodied physically embodied. Is this something that happened rarely or is this something that happens only with great effort. Well maybe we would have to
ask an angel to really tell us how frequently that happens. But there are stories that you know, the story in the Bible of Tobias and Tabbitt where there was Gabriel appears as a man who walks with this young boy who's being taken to marry this woman. She's been married seven times and every time she marries someone, the person dies and his father doesn't want him to go, but the angel says, no, he's got to go. You know,
God wants him to go. Yeah, So he's walking with this boy and they think she's a spider woman, but the truth was that she she the men got sick. The land that they were living on was was poisoned at some point. So the angel tells her go ahead and marry him, and we'll take you to some different place, and they live happily ever after, you know. But the angel came not just as a person to walk him along the road, but as a healer. And it was they say,
Gabriel. And he healed the sorrow in the young woman's heart by bringing her someone to love. He healed the loss in the young man's heart so that he could find someone to love. And he healed the doubt and disappointment. And the grandfather, the old man who said, no, no, it'll never come to any good. So anyway, he was a healer, but he just appeared as a person walking along the road, assisting him along the
path. And Adam Abraham eats with these three angels, you know, before Sodom and Gomorrah, and they eat and drink and you know, talk just like men. They don't have wings or anything, but they're bringing a messages from God, you know. And so you need to get the heck out of here, you know. Do you think that happens in our current age where an angel will manifest into some physical form to be among us and maybe provide information or communicate when needed. I do. I think I've met one
about that. Yeah, I was in Egypt, and I was still I wasn't used to binding my way around all these different places. And I found this image of isis that I wanted at this statue of some kind of statue. Yes, And I went back for it and everything was closing, and bought the statue. And then after I had done that, all the shops were being shuttered and I couldn't and the lights were gone out, and I couldn't figure out where I was. I didn't know where my hotel was.
I was by myself, and I feel someone behind me, walking along behind like they were gonna take my wallet and probably me. And so I kept crossing the street and they would cross, and I would take a different alley and they would take that same alley, and I kept trying to get my way back, and I was totally completely lost and frightened of beyond anything I
had ever felt before. And this little carriage comes around, you know, horse and buggy comes around the corner, and there's a young boy in it, and he appears in the street light and he's just all right in the street light and he says, lady, your hotel is that way, and I was like, thank you, and I run towards the hotel and sure enough there it was. Then I stop after I'm in the lobby and go,
how does he know where my hotel was? I don't know that guy from Adam, I know, you know, so I do believe he was an angel. I love that story. Yeah, you have that in your book. Um, what what angel would you say is the most influential for you? I mean, do you read back into the Bible, do you read about specific events that were that included angels that were impressed impressed you? Or what? What? What angel would you say is the most important too?
Um? The angel that helps me with my studies, roseel Okay as a metaphysician, I calling Rosael to help me understand numerology, astrology, metaphysics, physics, you know. And how do they help you? Um? Is it comprehension and absorption of data? Yeah, it's just Um, when you're reading something and you say I don't get this. Oh yeah, and so then you fall into a dream and you wake up and you go, oh, I get it. You know like that. Okay, so,
M yeah, I think that's an important angelic being for me. But the other one that I'm getting very fond of lately is Pennel. Who's the angel that wrestled with Jacob. So they say it's the angel that wrestled with Jacob on the cliff and you know, he threatened him like let me go, let me go, tell me your name, that kind of thing. And Pennel is an angel who saves us from our own human stupidity. Boy, can I use that? You know? He saves us from our own stupidity?
And who was more egoic and selfish and manipulative than Jacob taking his brother's wives and his cattle and his land and you know, taking him to another place where you'd never find him. And then finally the day that he had to confront his brother, he's standing on that cliff before the sun came up, wrestling with this angel. He couldn't tell if it was a man or you know, a giant or an angel, And it turns out it was an angel, Penny On, so that angel incarnated and so he was wrestling.
Wow. Yeah, yeah, the story real fun speaking with you. This book just came out The Ancient Tradition of Angels. I just saw it came out March seventh, and so those of you listening, it's available on Amazon, I'm sure local bookstore. It's produced by Bearing Company, which is distributed by Simon and Schuster. M Normandy can people? Do you have a website people can go and check out? I do. I am so easy to find Normandy Ellis dot com. Oh my godness with an eye? Yeah.
And do you have updates on where you'll be speaking? And I do? All my books are there, all fourteen of them, all the places I'll be doing talks. I try to keep it updated. It seems like things change all the time. Yeah, but wherever they can catch me. Yeah, great there. Yeah. Isn't it nice that the conferences they're starting up again because they were all pretty much closed for three years, you know,
the pandemic. Yeah, it is good. Yeah. So last question, how how do you think people should approach an angel if they would like to communicate? Do you have any suggestions for that? Yeah? My way, I'll tell you my way. I like to get into a quiet place, usually in the evening, light a candle and say I invoke light into this place I invoke the highest beings of intelligence to come and speak with me and to put their arms around me and show me what I need to see.
Usually works, okay. And if you're not necessarily a sensitive person and can get a sense that there is a presence, what would you say is another acknowledgement of an angelic being in your presence? Would it be a flesher of the flack of light, a flicker of light, or a knowledge of it? Or what would you say would be a helpful guide? A flicker of light is good. But also don't ignore the fact that the angels will give you synchronicities. You know, things will come to you in threes.
You'll be thinking about something and then the answer appears. And the more often you say it's not a coincidence, thank you spirit, the more often it happens. So interesting, that's so interesting. Synchronicities of three, that's like a divine number, I guess. Yeah. Wonderful Normandy, real pleasure as always, and much luck on this new book. I love the cover. They did a great job on this cover, didn't they do bomb cover?
I love that? Yeah, thank you. I didn't have anything to do with that, but I was just going to say, hopefully you didn't have to pound the pavement too hard to get them to do this, because it's a beauty. Its beauty. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Always a pleasure. It's really interesting to note that we forget so much when we incarnate, and we talk about lifetimes here on the program, and the Hindu traditions of understanding and working with reincarnation, karma and you know, working with our ancestors day of the dead, and you know, meditating. Now, a lot of people don't meditate. They think it's a waste of time, and we're not indoctrinated into these sacreditions that are worldwide. You know,
in the ancient parts of the world. We're too busy, we don't want to sit still. But I gotta tell you, when you begin to meditate, a whole bunch of changes take place, not only physically, but through your brain and through spiritual connections. You can meditate and there's actual techniques where you can connect with etheric beings, working with different dimensions, so forth
and so on. As crazy as that sounds. As crazy as that sounds, they're beginning to validate this type of connection and it just makes sense that it's some period in our history, perhaps Prediluvium, pre flood and sprinkling, after that period that we were trained to work with the higher realms. And within the higher realms there's the angelic realm, and you know, who are
these beings? I keep you know, I was, I was a little unsatisfied with some of the some of the content of this program because I wanted to know where are these people people, where these beans come from? You know, is it a is it on the you know, what is the etheric? How many levels of dimensions are there is? Is it infinity? You know? You know, or if you're religious, where's heaven? Where's heaven located? And within that realm of heaven? Where are the angels?
Fault? I know some of you biblical scholars listening, you're gonna go, well, if you go here and then you go there, and then you have to say hi to Michael, and Michael, here's your story, and then he signs an angel to you. You know, I think it's amazing that they don't have free will. We have free will, they don't. That's very that's servitude, and that's been perhaps why Lucifer got sick of it. And said I'm doing my own thing, and then he was banished.
Oh man, all right, anyhow, that was kind of fun, interesting to know. And that book just came out, The Ancient Tradition of Angels, and you can get it on Amazon. So something to consider if you are a fan of Earth Ancients. You know that we do tours every year, and we got a fun one coming up in November. It's our Maya of Tabasco and Chiappest Tour. It's November tenth to the seventeenth, and this is a new tour for us because we are hosted by doctor Edwin Barnhard.
He is going to be showing us what's going on. We'll have some lectures from him. And I'm excited about this one because I've not had a chance to go to Leventa, which is the one of the oldest cities of the Olmec. And not only are we going to see the ruins of the Olmec, but we're gonna go to this outdoor museum that's noted for its megalis.
And when I say megalis, these are granite blocks weighing between five and fifty tons, intricately carved in the figures and other characters thousands of years old, you know, at least three thousand years or older, and they're just amazing. I just can't wait. Plus, this is the one of the locations that has the largest collection of these heads. They think they're ruler hits, but they have helmets on. There's even some suggestion that they have a some
technology here and there. All that is the first day that we're in Vera Homosa, which is real close to Leventa. Next day we get on a bus and we head south to Chiapas and the Grand City of Polanque. I've never been there, really looking forward to that. And Ed was a major figure in mapping Polanquet about twenty years ago, so we're gonna hear about that. And then the second day we're there, we're going to get a private tour of the off limits stuff, the pyramids, the buildings, the temples
that have not been excavated. We're gonna hear all about that from him, and then we're gonna go to a couple of other places. Is I think we're all in all, it's like six seven different locations, including these world class museums that very few people go to, and those are the real diamonds in the rough Because there are figurings holding technology. There are all kinds of wonderful items to check out November tenth through the seventeen. For more information,
go to earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours. Look for the Mexico banner. Click it you'll see the entire itinerary. We're half full. We're only taking thirty people, and all you gotta do is get five hundred dollars in to hold your space and then you can pay the rest in a couple of payments. Earth ancients dot com forward slash tours Come and join us. Hey, I'm really excited. We just confirmed doctor John brandon Burg. John has
been ill and has been moved around. He went dark on us Jesus last year and I found out that he was working on a hush hush project for a contractor to NASA. But he has agreed to spill the beans. He's a friend. This is a program. It's called Confessions of a NASA Scientist. This is all about death on Mars, the civilization that once existed there tens of thousands of years ago, and new evidence from not only the satellite array that's there, but some rover footage that has not been exposed to the
general public. This is a tragedy befallen the United States citizens. We pay billions of dollars to NASA to give us the true story of these planets that are in our cosmos, and we're told there's no form of current or past life on the planet Mars. Mars is bustling, not only with ancient ruined cities, but we think there could be life forms that are still there. We don't know if there are a form of Homo sapien sapien or other creatures,
but there are life forms there. But what's really maddening for me is the continual exposure of ruins through satellite imagery, the evidence of a horrific event. Doctor Brandon Brook will give us details on this event. He believes it was a nuclear event. And what is happening now with SpaceX and other NASA Space Command projects. It's looking like and by the way, there's some new writings by people who are having contact with ET's, most notably Whitley Streaber.
He just published a book called Them ThM and in that book he describes what's going on with NASA, and it's just a continual lie to cover themselves because it's gonna it's looking more and more like they're going to be humiliated with other countries ending probes and orbiting satellites around Mars and the information coming back, and so at some point they're going to have to come clean. But who knows. Anyhow, this is a special program, Confessions of a NASA Scientist.
It's going to be in May for recording it ahead of time. I'll be in Egypt when it airs. But it is going to be a beauty and he is a lot of fun because he's just flat out an open book. He has told me that there are a few things he cannot discuss, most notably the current lineup of Mars missions are that are coming up, so we won't go there, but he's agreed to kind of give us the load down of what he knows and what's being covered up, and it's just inexcusable.
I'm just really tired of it. So I can't wait for that. All right, John, doctor John Brandenburg is coming your way. All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest today, Norman d Ellis. In her new book The Ancient Tradition of Angels as always the team of Ruth, Thomas, Mark Foster, and everyone who makes this podcast happen. Thank you, I appreciate it. All right, take care of be well, and we will talk to you next time.