Michael Cremo: Lost Civilizations from Earth's Prehistoric Past

Underground City. We're gonna see go Beckley Teppee. But even more important, we're gonna get on the bus and drive another twenty miles and gonna we're gonna go see uh Carahan tippy That's the place everyone's got their eye on right now because the excavations are revealing not a few human like sculptures, but a whole bunch of new sculptures. There's a figure of a man. He's about eight feet tall with these ribs hanging out and he has this

very unusual face. And when we were in the museum that's close by Karahan Tippye, there's a couple of female types and of this one eight foot tall man, and then these morphed anthropologically morphed creatures that are half man half animal that we're there too, so I don't know it's just they doing psychedelics.

minus zero temperatures because that's really grueling. And I can't imagine going out and hiking in like fifteen minus fifteen minus thirty degree whether I think at some point, and this is years ago, I think at some point, it's dangerous to go out when it's sub zero. Now does that mean sub zero minus ten, minus twenty minus thirty, I don't know if it's If it's smart, you know to do that. And that's why people were face where they wear protective masks and things like that, because you

can't expose your skin to that extreme weather. But anyhow, if you guys are dealing with that, man, I feel for you, and.

should check it out. Graham's presentations are world class. They are enthralling, the slides are excellent, and he is just a fantastic presenter. He is giving a talk called the Fight for the Past Again. It will be a Sedona Arizona, April nineteenth to the twentieth. To see the details, go to worldsviews media dot com. That's world Views with a z media dot com. You can see the itinerary get a sense of what's going on. He will be signing books,

He'll be meeting people personally. He's really quite a congenial guy and really enjoys meeting his fans. Not to be missed again April nineteenth to twentieth. I do have one last ticket we've given away pair. I have one ticket. If you're interested in being in the final raffle, that's for one ticket. So if you have somebody that you'd like to bring, you're gonna have to come up with the price for the other one. But I have one ticket. I think it's it's a value of about four hundred bucks.

Simean email. Send the email to Earth Ancients the number four of the letter you at gmail dot com and say on the subject go Graham Hancock and then just say sign me up. We have Michael Kremo on the program today, and it's always a pleasure having him on simply because he is constantly looking into man's antiquity on Earth. He has a new book coming out in the fall, and we will present be presenting that as it is available, and we're gonna talk a little bit about that. But

today's program is about the Yuga Cycles. But not only that, he validates these cycles.

Michael can because in his book Forbidden Archaeology he describes some of the intricate artifacts that have been found that are related to that. Now, if you have read Forbidden Archaeology, you know that he chronicles artifacts that are extremely old. He has some pieces that are over one hundred million years old. Artifacts that are like hammers and bells and coins that represent earlier civilizations, complete civilizations that came and went on Earth, I mean one hundred millions years ago.

That would be during the dinosaurs. And so it's fascinating to listen to him, and he's not just casually talking about he's showing the evidence. A lot of these discoveries were made during the turn of the century, in the late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, and they're found in the coal mines or found in drill shafts coming up from half a mile in earth and beyond. So it's gonna be fun and I and also one of the things we will talk about is the end of cali Yuga.

We're currently in cali Yuga, which ends this year apparently two thousand and twenty five, and kind of extends itself between now and twenty thirty, so we got five years. Now, what does that mean. One of the things that has been an issue is that a lot of prophecy is that at the end of a cycle there is a catastrophe or there's some form of destruction. And we'll learn today I don't have to worry about that. But it's more of a consciousness raising or a cognition growing and

preparing and evolving to this next level. So today's program is Earth Realms from Antiquity, and my guest is Michael Kremo. You know, it's hard to get started when it's cold outside and you don't want to get out of bed, and then when you do get out of bed at you're groggy and you're thinking, I gotta have some coffee. I gotta have something to get me going. There's a better alternative that I have been using now for a

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more natural brain enhancing products Magic Mind. For more information, go to magicmind dot com, Forward slash Earth Ancients jan j a n you'll love it. So it's great to have Michael Krimo in the house. And of course if you're not familiar with his work, it's Forbidden Archaeology. So much has been written about this book, so many people reference it that it is it just it's a foundation for a lot of questions we have about our ancient past.

And it's fun to have him on the program because he's constantly writing about the past and he has an Indian or Hindu influence that is profound. So Michael, welcome to Earth Ancient is great to see you again.

a yoga is considered the golden age of mankind. And in your book Forbidden in Archaeology, you actually show evidence of human remains, modern human remains that are I think a million years.

of that. There's a subtle mental body, you might say, with very unusual powers like remote viewing and psychokinesis and telepathy and things of that sort. And then beyond that there's a conscious self and during these time cycles there are different types of human like beings. One piece of information that's given in the Piranhas the they did histories is that in Satya Yuga, the people were living for

about one hundred thousand years. In the next yuga they were living for about ten thousand years, and the third yuga, the Dwopera Yuga, they were living about a thousand years. And in the color Yuga. The age we're in now, we live about one hundred years maximum. So you see signs of that from other religious texts. Also, the Bible talks about people in ancient times who had lifetimes of up to one thousand years, eight hundred and nine hundred years,

and things like that. But if you go back even before those times, they would have been living even longer periods of time. Also, well, do you want to make this one point that you know, how do we get knowledge about these things? One source is the record of the rocks, but that is a very limited aspect of things. You can have an archaeology of stones and bones, but you can also have an archaeology of consciousness where you get dig deep into the mystical, spiritual sources of information.

So that's you know, you could say, the information that's left by these ancient civilizations is another source of information beyond the stones and bones of the fossil record. So they revealed that in the such a yoga. People were mostly very spiritually conscious, very aware of these things. They lived in a very simple, natural way. They hadn't divided

themselves into different social classes. Everything was very highly refined in terms of their intellectual abilities, the mystic powers that they had, their ability to get along with each other and live with each other peacefully, and put most of

their energy into developing that resource of consciousness. In the next age to tray to Yuga, they began to divide themselves up into groups, and the lifetime was shorter ten thousand years, and they began to divide themselves into social classes intellectuals, military and government people, business people and an agriculturist, tradesmen and craftsmen, and things got a little bit tense,

you could say. By the time you get to the next Uga, it's kind of broken out into open warfare, and the lifetime gets shorter a thousand years, and things get more materialistic, and finally you come to our age, which is described as an age of ever increasing social and environmental disturbance. You get a very short lifetime, very violent society, and the lifetime will get even shorter as

the colored Yoga goes on. But then there'll be another subject yoga, so the system will rebuilt, you could say, so we as individual spirit souls, we may have been going through these cycles for millions and millions and millions of years.

And the next age where they had divided themselves up at the classes, they kind of got into what's called ritual or sacrifice, you know, elaborate arrangements that required a great deal of wealth, you know, So you had the ruling class and society organizing these big arrangements, and you know, so people could feel pious and contributing to them and attending these jung yas or sacrifices as they were called.

And then in the next age it elaborate temple worship, you know, making a structure, you know, like you have the Vatican in the role, you have the cathedrals throughout Europe, you know, Buddhist temples in Asia and things like that. That became the main thing. But in this age of college, there's according to the tradition that I follow anyways, the the main way of keeping oneself spiritually situated is mantra meditation,

the sound of sacred sounds. We all like to hear things, but if we can focus our hearing on these mantras. Mantra is a Sanskrit word. It means lawn is the mind and trump means to deliver. So you can kind of focus your mind on these higher things by mautra meditation.

and apparently sat ability that we all have. Actually, I think our modern technologies like smartphones and things like that are our effort to reduplicate what abilities people naturally had and exercised in previous ages. But it's just being presented to us in a commercialized way that can monetize it for people. But yeah, I mean, I've participated in remote you any experiments, and you know, I tend to believe

in these things. But once I was with Rupert Sheldrake and we were in Montreal and a conference that Steven Schwartz was also speaking at, and he was one of the original investigators with the Stanford Research Institute that was contracted by the United States government intelligence agencies in the nineteen seventies to do remote viewing experiments as part of

gathering intelligence about the Soviet Union. And he kind of led a little workshop that I attended with the Rupert Sheldrake and he sent some people away from the workshop, told him to go anywhere they want in Montreal and when they get there, just try to mentally send an image of the place back to us. In the hotel, and he gave them a video camera and told him to take pictures and shoot some video of the place. So they went and then we did the remote viewing exercise.

He just said, write down whatever imagery comes into your mind, don't think about it, don't edit it, just put it down. So the first image that came to my mind was candle flames and red glass folders. So later the people come back, they show the tape and the first image that cups on the screen is candle flames and red glass holders. You know, they kind of gone to the cathedral in Montreal, and you know, so I kind of

was able to detect that. And actually, uh, of course you we were asked to, uh, write down what do we see when we look up when we look down to the lab. Yeah, and a lot of people have got it basically correct, so you know, it's it's it's interesting. It's a bit of paranormal research that one can experience oneself.

It's not something that was invented at some particular point in time. But the very word yoga means to connect, so it means connecting the individual self with the supreme self. And understanding and understanding that is the ultimate purpose of yoga, and there are different systems of yoga. In modern times, it's become pretty much identified with making the physical body grows,

physical body healthier and stronger, which is okay. But ultimately, if you look at the yoga system, part of it is yama, and the yama you know, things to do and things not to do. Then there's awesome a sitting and then there's pronaia controlling the breathing. You know. So a lot of people kind of stopped there with the sitting postures and the different uh yoga postures and the

proniam the controlling the breathing. But beyond that there's uh gianna meditation, uh Gianna concentrated meditation, then samadi uh total absorption of consciousness, and the supreme so uh you've got to follow it through all of its processes. And so

that's one type of yoga. The specific type of yoga that I follow is called Bakki yoga and the yoga of demotion, which means each soul has an eternal relationship with the Supreme soul, the source of all conscious beings, and uncomforting that relationship, which is one of such at Ananda. Eternal existence, full knowledge, and ever increasing transcendental pleasure is

the ultimate good of that practice of yoga. And I regard what I do what I'm doing here when I'm speaking, when I'm writing about these topics, I consider that part of my practice of the yoga.

these satya or advanced techniques. Our modern medicine isn't really up to energy, and the Chinese identify this meridian, this super highway of energy that runs throughout the body, and using very fine needles, they can change and correct disharmonies.

decades ago in science scientific circles. But I heard a presentation from an anesthesiologist, a Western train an esthetic expert, you know that kind of puts you out during operations. He said he went to China and he saw a open heart surgery operation on a woman just using acupuncture for anesthesia. Wow. And in that in an operation like that, they take a saw, they cut open the breastbone and

pulled the ribs apart and operate on the heart. And he said, this woman was just sitting there conscious fully awake. Oh my god, you know, he said, this is amazing. Yeah, he saw it himself, and he really He went on to explain that science really doesn't understand how anestesthasia works. Yeah, because I think they don't have the proper conception of the body and the different energies and it. And yeah, so, like you said, it's a subtle science that has an origin that goes way back in time.

made of matter. There's this soublty mental body I call it, that's associated with our organism. And I think a lot of these medical techniques from ancient wisdom traditions are based on the understanding of the connection of the mental body with the gross physical body, whereas Western science just thinks in terms of fixing the machinery of the gross physical body. These higher systems of knowledge were able to take it to another level.

and eighty million years from now. I remember during twenty twelve there was a lot of thought that there was going to be a catastrophe from the Mayan calendars. Some people had gotten the idea that the end of a cycle was coming in twenty twelve and that there was

going to be a huge devastation. And there was actually a movie, Hollywood movie that came out in twenty twelve about it kind of showed some monks up in the Mlaan mount sent a huge tidal wave taller than Mount Everest was coming up the think them out to wash them away. And just so happened that in twenty twelve, I was giving lectures at colleges and universities in India, and that was the question I kept getting from the students.

Is there going to be a devastation at the end of twenty twelve December twenty twelve, and I said, as far as I know, there is going to be a devastation, but it's going to be about one hundred and eighty million years from now, so you can go ahead and register for next semesters. That's hilarious and it kind of worked out that way. We're still here. Hey.

Cretaceous period. The age of the dinosaurs, so it got to be about one hundred million years old.

beings and a script and an unknown language. And this was reported and you know, scientific publication by researcher from the Smithsonian Institution. And I thought, well, that's interesting. Let me get in touch with the State Geological Survey of Illinois and asked them how old is the formation that this came from. Of course, I didn't tell them about the coin. I just told them, you know, I'm interested in a well boring that was done in this certain

place in Illinois. I didn't mention the artifact because then they might have ignored the letter. And I asked them what is the Formation at that level, and how old is it and they said, well, that's they gave the name of the formation and they said that's between two hundred and four hundred thousand years old. So to you have to keep a eye that. The standard view is that the first coins were made in a place called Lydia,

which is now in Turkey, about fifteen hundred BC. And you know, as far as human beings being present in North America, they don't think any human beings were in North America any earlier than about twenty or twenty five thousand years ago. So that kind of had the copper coin that sort of indicates there was some kind of civilization there, some kind of developed economy, some kind of government administration, some trade going on. So that was kind of an interesting discuss.

in West Virginia. And uh, when he was breaking open one piece of cold to break it into smaller pieces to put into the furnace, he found a metal bell and on the handle of this bell, on the top of the tip of the handle, there was a winged figure standing there and they were able to determine what mine the coal came from, and from that information we learned that the coal in that mine is about three

hundred million years old. So what was really interesting to me was that the bell looked just like metal bells in India that are used in Tempa worship that have on their handle a winged figure who is known as Garuda, a bird carrier of the god Vishnu. So that was kind of interesting that there may have been contact between North America and Asia going about hundreds of millions of years.

who walked into it. And I mean, who knows what the stories are, but you know, vamana would really let the cat out of the bag, wouldn't it.

thousands of years ago. You know, the parallels between those ancient descriptions in the modern descriptions are really sort of a proof in themselves that we're actually talking about some real phenomena. You know, unless you just want to say that people living in very distant times and places from ours just have a similar tendency to Hallu senate and fantasize in certain ways, that doesn't seem like a very good explanation to me. It seems the explanation is both

both parties are looking at the same thing. So that's the kind of proof. But the piranhas, the Vedic histories are full of very elaborate descriptions of flying machines, spaceships that come under the heading of vivanos that's the Sanskrit word for them. So and as far as high tech remains, it's something we have to keep in mind that our high tech stuff really doesn't survive for a long time

in terms of geological time. Studies have been done. You know, a lot of scientists are concerned with the environment, global warming. You know, they're concerned that the byproducts of technological civilization are polluting the earth. So sometimes they speculate, what if humans disappeared from the earth today, what would happen to the remains of our technological civilization? How long would it take the Earth to get back to a purely natural state,

and it doesn't take very long. They've shown how after a few hundred or thousand years, our big skyscrapers will collapse, you know, the iron and then that supports the iron columns will uh outionize, the plastic of the glass will fall off, the little corrode. Yeah, you know, our high tech stuff actually won't last very long. You know. So

you go back a few hundred thousand years. Unless you're specifically looking for some very specific signs, like evidence for compounds that don't naturally occur in nature, you're not going to find very much of it. So so I mean, there's.

What is there is valuable that it contradicts much of what we're being told today. But for the actual story, our best source of information may be the records that have been left by these ancient civilizations and have been transmitted perhaps orally, for generation after generation. So they contain descriptions of cities with airplanes and spaceships, and as you were saying, militaries equipped with weapons that resemble modern atomic weapons,

for example. So yes, there are descriptions of things like that that come from this other source, and we may be able to detect signs of advanced technology, as I said, maybe not in terms of having the exact artifacts, but through chemical testing and things like that, detecting perhaps past nuclear events nuclear wars, from radioactive elements discovered in certain types of layers of rock, or the residues of different compounds that don't occur in nature, like a lot of

our modern technology is based on material science that takes different elements and combines them in different ways that wouldn't occur naturally. So it may require a different kind of approach to archaeology to get that type of evidence, because it's not the normal type of evidence that archaeologists are usually looking for. They're looking for some physical bone or object that can that can help them understand what was going on in the past, but it may have to be taken to a different level.

that have been found on Earth. I had a geologist on the program who wrote a book called The Expanding Earth, and his theory was that at different times in Earth's history, it was closer to the Earth, and then through various actions of other planets, it was pulled away from it, causing the gravitation of the Earth to be different. He believes that's the reason that the dinosaurs were so huge, is that the Earth was at a different location. And

I'm curious. We have all these strange skeletal remains of these different hominids, and in Maya lore there were beings that were different from us. They may have been of the Homo sapien class, but they weren't necessarily they didn't necessarily look like this. And we have this also appearing in Peru with the practice people who seem to have a denser bone, who had much longer craniums. In fact, their brain capacity is like thirty percent more than ours.

So what's your theory on this? Do you have any evidence in the Veda that talks about Earth changing its position with the Sun and the cosmos.

that's being fed into it. So we have that. But now, as far as the different types of humanoid types of creatures, the Vedas tell us that there are four hundred thousand human like species scattered throughout the universe, not necessarily present on this planet, but when we consider the whole universe, there are four hundred thousand human like species. As you mentioned,

one with a large cranial capacity. That kind of reminds me of very recent discovery made in China where Chinese scientists have identified a new species they call Homo julu ensiss So Julu is a word that means big head. They discovered fragments of the skulls of these creatures that they're giving this new species name too, and they show they had a cranial capacity of up to eighteen hundred cubic centimeters, which is bigger than the biggest human brains.

So yeah, you do have quite quite a variety of prominent type preachers. Now they think that around that time they had Neanderthals, Denisovans, Homo floresiensis sometimes called the hobbit from Floris Island in Indonesia and Luzon and the island of Luzon in the Philippines. They've identified another new species they call Homo Luza luzon ensis, and you know, I would throw it to the mixed human beings like ourselves

as well, So it's kind of interesting. First published Forbidden Archaeology, the main view in science was that human evolution went on in a very linear way, with one hominint existing at a time and transforming into the next, from Homo habilis to Homo erectus, to the Neanderthals to early Homo

sapiens to Homo sapiens. Very linear. But we predicted and Forbidden Archaeology that the actual pattern is one of coexistence of many hominin types, and modern science has come around to that point of view.

been fighting with him or whatever. But is it because the environments were such that these other beings could live with Homo sapien sapien or as I as this geologist was mentioning the Earth was closer to the Sun and the gravity was different, and it was able to produce giants or people of different bone density or whatever, and we just have lived the most recently because we are the survivors of the of the current environment.

the previous yoga they were bigger. So there's an account in the Piranhas of a being, a human being existing in a previous yoga when things were bigger than they are today, going to sleep in a cave, and waking up when the next yoga came and he could tell them was the color yoga because everyone was smaller than him, and when he walked out, he was considered to be

a giant. So that idea is the concept that because of changing environments, living beings can be of different sizes, is something that I agree with.

But there there are many accounts in the Vedic text of interdimensional contacts, say where a person will have a celestial father and a terrestrial mother, and this is found in many of the world's traditions that you know, there are celestial beings that visit this realm and sometimes they have children with a partner from the terrestrial realm. And another element that I've thrown into This is the idea that each of us, as a being of pure consciousness

is not from this planet. We're from some higher realm from which we've devolved or come down. And you know, basically you can divide the types of humanoids and other living creatures in the universe into those who want to dominate, control and exploit everything and everyone, and those who want to learn to harmonize and come to a higher level of consciousness, you know, solve our material needs and the most efficient natural way possible while putting most of our

human energy into developing that resource of consciousness. So there are forces, you to say, of light and darkness and the cosmos that look at our world here as a place to try to influence towards one way or the other.

by performing rituals or sacrifices. They were establishing connections with extraterrestrial beings who would sometimes visit with them, speak with them, everything as you were describing it. Really, but with the beginning of color Yuga people entered into a lower state

of consciousness, i could say, and they stopped coming. Now, those people on this planet who were more pious, you could say, more on the side of light, their activities would attract higher beings of you might say, the good type, to interact with them, whereas people who were on the other side, they would attract to them beings of a

darker sort a more impious sort. So it's these days there are still reports from contactees and abductees that describe their contacts either in terms of this beings of light or beings of darkness sort of mood. So I think we're not so much in direct contact with these extraterrestrial beings in the current age because most people and most governments are not at least openly communicating with them, and

they more or less stayed off the stage. I think, however, there's still enough coming from them that makes me think they want to remind people that they're still around.

in our culture, that whole aspect of reality. I mean, it was even present in Christianity, early Christianity that they had angels in charge of the different natural forces and things like that. Those are kind of intermediate beings between humans and the ultimate God. But we've kind of wiped all that out and just say now we're going to explain everything without those personalities. We're just doing by our science.

So we've kind of made ourselves into God's You could say that we don't think there's anyone better than us at the cosmos.

put them together in this book. And to spend a lot of time putting a book together. I wish I were a more prolific author, you know, putting out four or five books a year, But it takes me usually a number of years to be satisfied with the research that I've done and put it out there for people. So basically, that's what that book's about, all the further investigations into forbidden archaeology that I've done, and especially I'm

interested in evidence for extreme human antiquity. Alternative archaeology is a big field and different researchers deal with different ends on the time spectrum. I deal with deep time, you know. Some of them are focused on the world or recent aspects of things having to do with the origin of civilization. But I'm continuing to do my part.

are questionable that question our dates in question. Our understanding of our history. And this is the big problem I'm writing about this right now. We have problems in our

academic circles. They do not want to even consider dates that go beyond the parameters of of their university dictums, the history books, the comfort zone, and what Michael presents is great evidence and at some point Western archaeology has to collectively reach out beyond their own purviews and look at the Chinese, look at the Middle Eastern research, and actually even South American research. We've had South American researchers on this program who have a completely different narrative of

how human beings evolved. And you know, it's it's really one of the foundations of why I started Earth Ancients is that I have questioned history as a teenager. It's there's just too many problems with how we have this linear history. One civilization leads another leads another. I was thinking about this when Michael was talking. If you remember about four it's see back last year, I think it

was May. We had doctor Stephen Collins on the program who had unearthed what he believes was Jordan, biblical Jordan in the Middle East, and one of the things that was fascinating is that he chronicles the destruction of Jordan through a horrific asteroid burst that was so powerful. I think it was a thousand times stronger than Hiroshima. Just complete devastation, so hot. I think it was a thousand degrees with fourteen hundred degrees fahrenheit, so hot it melted walls,

it melted a lot of stuff. And I'm thinking if that and I think that was five or six thousand years ago. I think if we look at the prior bursts, the prior terminating events of nine thousand, five hundred years ago, to begin looking at the Egyptians and the Maya and other ancient cultures to see if there was one of

these terminating events. And this is my hypothesis in my book Mayan Controversy, is that if it is and can be reported that there was one of these asteroid bursts that destroyed the civilization, what we see is the reuse of temples, pyramids, and buildings following the repopulation of these ancient sites. And this is my big problem with the Maya. We are given these pre Middle and post cycles or chronicled times, and it's an easy way to kind of

get a sense of who the Maya are. But there's a huge problem in the fact that archaeologists have found sixty thousand unknown ruins in the Guatemala biosphere. This is in twenty eighteen, and we had and by the way, we're gonna have Richard Hanson, who's the head of the research and excavation at Elmodor, which is at the tip of the Peton biosphere in Guatemala, and was part of this survey, and what he's saying is is going to take two hundred years.

the beginning to the end. And the other thing is the dates for the Maya are roughly one thousand BCE and this is totally wrong and I'm really beginning to see it.

first two weeks. It's really important and that'll be in about let's see, about sixty days or less. I'll be announcing how to get the streaming media service at the discount rate, and that means you can watch it live from the minute the door is open to the minute the door's shut, and you have a repository, you have the files from the presentations that you can't go and see.

So if you're in Europe, if you're in Mexico, South America, Australia, wherever you are in the world, your time zone does not need to necessarily affect you because all these presentations will be recorded and stored for your viewing and listening pleasure. So Cosmic sum twenty twenty five will be coming up. We're going to have George Howard on the program, the producer, to talk about this year's program and the great lineup that he has, and to talk a little bit about

the theme of the program, So stay tuned for that. Hey. I also want to mention that we are, and I mentioned this in the beginning of the show, we're going to be going in the Turkey June twenty second to July second. This is filling up fast, and I want to remind you that we're not just going to a few sites. We're going to go Beckley Teppe, Carahan Teppee and there's an extended museum at both of those locations

that we need to see. We didn't get to see go Beckley Teppy for more than half an hour because we had to get back on the bus and go. But there are numerous places to visit, including Darren Kuru, Cappadocia, and a lot of very very ancient sites to check out. So if you're thinking about a vacation, this is the time to go. Our prices are literally one half of what a typical eleven twelve day tour is and if you book early enough, your flight flights can be fairly reasonable.

So for the entire itinerary, go to earthacients dot com, forward slash tour check it out. Mohammed Imbrahim is our host along with the team at Saba Tours, and there are a number of extracurricular activities that will add to the tour, including there's an amazing spice market that we go to. You can see spice out and sample them before you buy dried fruit. All kinds of places to visit and have fun. So we don't just do the heavy lifting and go to the sites in the middle of nowhere.

I brought a couple of bobs for family, but it was like, wow, Yeah, it's really, really, really.

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