Matt LaCroix: The Epic of Humanity

Oh boy, here we go again, another one for the books. Hey, how are you? You know it's funny. I have talked about this for years that our history is educated guests for the most part, and especially when you start getting into civilizations that are a thousand years or older, we don't know how many of these early people formed. We're talking Sumerians, we're talking pre dynastic Egyptians. We we're talking the Maya, the China, Chinese, and so forth and so on. A lot of these guys just appeared

on the scene completely formed. That's a huge problem for a lot of archaeologists, Egyptologists, minus whatever you want to focus on. And it's a challenge because there's no writing, you know, and we're just beginning to get a sense of these cuneiforms, these clay tablets that go back thousands of years, most notably the Sumerians, and they're descriptions of earlier civilizations that because our current crop of archaeologists and scientists are not allowed or educated to go further than noted

and well documented kings and individuals, including civilizations, they don't accept it. They don't accept the kings lists that go back ten twenty there's even evidence in some of the Egyptian lists that are close to fifty thousand years in the past, and that's just too much. And this is what's so frustrating about academia and our current history. They need to see hard evidence well on Earth ancients.

We do our best to provide as much hard evidence as possible and research and we got it today with my returning guest Matt Lacroix, who is going to drill down into what he has discovered and continues to uncover in Turkey. And I have only been to Istanbul a couple of times, which isn't really getting out in the backcountry like go Beckley Tepe, places like darren Kuru,

Cappadocia. These are hundreds and a couple of places are close to eight hundred one thousand miles excuse me, not a thousand, close to eight hundred miles from Istanbul, and this is where the real research and excavations are going on. Now. We all know about go Beckley Tepee, which was dated to what nine five hundred BC, roughly twelve thousand plus years ago. It was established and then oddly it was covered up, it was buried for some reason.

It was protected. Now there's another site that's a few miles from go Beckley Teppey called Carahan Teppi. And when we had Hugh Newman and JJ Ainsworth on the program, who have been there a few times, we're getting in

a sense that there's still a great deal of guesswork. And when Schmidt, the archaeologist who discovered and excavated go Beckley teppe first revealed the carbon daty, he basically tipped the worldline and see here, because it was so far it was so far back, so ancient, that it was hard for the academic world to adapt. Now. I still think there's a lot of people that

are questioning these dates and are very uncomfortable with going that far back. But in our program today, Matt is introducing a new book that he co wrote with Billy Carson called The Epic of Humanity. And in that book, he goes back. According to the cuteiforms, these clay tablets that are written on he goes back two hundred thousand years. And that's where we begin to, strangely enough, correlate with people like Mario Bill Reps. Remember he's a mathematician

that goes back. I think he goes back actually more than two hundred thousand years. And then we got our own doctor Mark Carlotto, who, through the use of alignments of temples, pyramids, and ancient buildings, he goes back I think pretty close to a couple hundred thousand years. Now, these are insane dates. I am college educated, many of you are college educated. I studied some anthropology classes. But you know, whenever we get Jin

day On here, That's why I love Jin. She's an archaeologist. She becomes quiet and subdude when she starts hearing dates that are one hundred thousand to two hundred thousand years in the past, four sophisticated buildings. How do you get over this, Well, you have to get over it through hard evidence.

And I haven't announced to make just the last couple of days. Jindo, our own archaeologist here at Earth Agients, has agreed to join Matt Lacroix and his team to go to Turkey to study these artifacts and through testing and data analysis, work to get some dates for these new ruins that are coming to light. So when I hear that our own Gendeo going to Turkey and

working with Matt, and I really admire Matt and appreciate him. He's got the energy that I had at his age to head out and start uncovering more evidence of this early civilization that he's all excited about. So our program today is the Epic of Humanity, and my guest is Matt Lacroix, and we're gonna go for a couple of hours today because we're gonna talk about not only where we left off when he was on the panel with Doctor, with Reverend

Jim Willis and Jendo and myself. We're gonna drill down deep to that, and then we're gonna talk about this book that just came out. I mean it just came out, what is it, a couple of weeks ago, So the Epic of Humanity And by the way, you can now get it on Amazon, so check it out and see what you think. So this is what we're doing today. We're gonna do a deep dive on Turkey. So hold on to your hats, savateurs. Is well organized, Everything flow

easily. It was a fantastic tour from beginning to end. To be honest, I was shocked by the private visits. I could not believe that we were lucky enough to experience those. That's from one of the many people who do the Earth Ancients Grand Egyptian Tour every year. We're in our fifth year

and we're looking forward to our next program. That's this April twenty eight through May fifth, and it is a tour of ancient sites and it's a private tour with our host, Mohammed Imbry Him, who is a wonderful world class post and tour guide. We have a few spots left and this is an invitation to you to come out and join us in what can only be described as a VIP tour of Egypt. These are private sites we go to for

the most part. This is a view of some of the most intriguing sites, including the Great Pyramid, Hathor Temple, the Bent Pyramid, the Red Pyramid, so much more, and then we cruise on the Nile. This is a way to really take in the ancient past and from start to finish, the food, the beverages and the environment is first class. For more information, please go to Earthancients dot com forward slash tours all the informations there.

The Earth Ancients Grand Egyptian Tour April twenty eighth through May ninth. All right, we've got a great show today. As always, we have interesting topics, and I've invited Matt Lacrue back to the program. Not only does Matt have a new book out called The Epic of Humanity. It's co written by Billy Carson, but I wanted Matt to come back to give us the kind of a deep dive on what's going on in Turkey. I have not been to Turkey. We're doing our first Tour Earth Ancient Tour in August of

this year, and I'm looking. I mean, I've been to Istanbul, but Istanbul is very modern and I didn't get a chance to go to go back to the Tapy and so forth and so on. But I have invited Matt back for a number of reasons. He's an exciting guy. He's passionate like I am, about the ancient past, and he is taking Orthodoxy and moving it beyond what we understand about ancient our ancient history, and giving us a possible scenario for really exciting discoveries. So, Hey, Matt, welcome

back to Earth the Ancient. It's great to see you. Hey, Cliff, it's great to see you again. I feel like this is like part two, because we just had that other one we did, but truly, it's an amazing way to come out of that show and then discuss even what came out of that and these new discoveries that you brought up. So thanks for having back on. Yeah, the panel was fun. I had a lot of good positive comments. It's fun to have more than one person on

a panel. But as we discussed before we started, the time issues are much tighter, So you know, before we start, Matt, I want to get a little information about you. I mean I haven't had you on by yourself for lee four years now, if not longer. Yeah, why are you passionate about the past? What? What is it? I mean, it's it like, oh, it's cool to look at new discoveries and you're in Turkey, and Turkey's in ancient place and there's not enough feet on

the ground that are looking at stuff. But what is it for you? Yeah? Who cares? Man? I mean, why why should we care? Well, the funny thing about you asking that is that a lot of my life I was interested in the in the idea of lost civilizations, and I was fascinated by that concept. But I wasn't like a history nerd.

You know, you didn't walk up to me in the playground when I was like twelve and be like Matt was the date on like when you know, like Cortes conquered the astec Like I wasn't bad, Like that wasn't me. I was like looking for crystals and rocks and I was, you know, wonder. I was in awe and wonder of the stars above me and all the kids. Everyone's like walking around doing their thing, and I was just out out there staring around like and people. It felt very odd to me

that I felt very different than everyone else. I knew it very much. Felt more like in my friend that I grew up with, Ryan would attest to this, It's like it's like you don't know anything about being here. It's kind of weird. It was an odd thing. It felt like more like I was some kind of a tourist and I'm like I'm wide eyed and I'm looking at everything, and I'm like out nature and I'm like blown away, and everybody else is sort of like okay, And that's was my life

though. That was my life from a very young age. It's just being completely unorthodox to everyone else. I was like a complete nerd. I didn't have a lot of friends. I was usually spending most of the time out in nature looking for rocks and crystals and gold and all kinds of things, and I still do that now. I'm never like. In fact, there's not that much difference between my passions from when I was young, except one, not big one is that I've literally the embodiment of who I am and

my mission here. Literally, I feel like it is connecting the ancient narrative of our lost civilizations and the origins of who we are in our consciousness, these mysteries, these greater mysteries that encompass the totality of our existence here in this reality. And that became far more than just an interest in something that I was passionate about, but became something that I realized was more of a

voice inside me. It was more of like a fire that was burning, that was something that I had to do, and there was nothing else that I really could do. It was like that voice and that calling just became stronger and stronger as I got a little older and into a different phases of my life. And now it's to the point where I have to try to go out of my way. And my wife will admit this to try to do other normal things in life because I am so focused and obsessed with uncovering

these ancient mysteries. Yeah, we should also let our listeners know that congratulations, you've just got married. I got married back in but but I mean within the last twelve months. But come on, it's been it's been great. She's an amazing woman. She's so beautiful. I feel very lucky to have such a supportive, smart, just an incredible woman that is already driven to want to explore the greater questions of things. Anyway, and that's really

part of what you want to share that path with. Yeah, that's that's a perfect partner. You said something just now that I can relate to, which is that I came back, I incarnated. I wanted to show people, tell people, reveal the people that we are part of a much older culture. Yeah. Do you have a sense of lifetimes in an earlier period, perhaps not acknowledging them in dreams or whatever, but just because for me, at a very very young age, I was like being kicked out of

Sunday School because I'm like questioning the Bible. Say, who's Jesus Christ? Did he get out of here? Right? Get out? Of that exact same thing happened to me too. It's crazy, you know, Kenny. You say that because I was in Sunday School and I also got kicked out, So it's funny that we walked a similar path in that way, Cliff,

But you're right. The way to describe it is this, as I've been uncovering and connecting this narrative of from the Canaean form tablets and the Sumerians, Acadians, Babylonians, Assyrians up through ancient stories around the world, whether it's Vedic texts or ancient Aztec texts, it came it came more in line

with this understanding that there was something that need to be brought together. There was an understanding there was a there was a story, a thread that had gone around the world that had been lost, that had been fragmented into pieces over time from catastrophes and conquerors and various other means that have come along and just time itself. And for me, something spoke to me as being like an ancient like an ancient librarian or sage or something like that. Because and

I say that not in a way to sound cool at all. I don't. It's more of this fire within me of to literally dedicate every single thing I have to these mysteries and protecting these ancient texts and the knowledge that's within them, and where that comes from. It's the only thing that makes sense to me is it has to come from some previous life that that was literally what I did. And thus I guess, like you said, maybe we come back for different reasons. We have many different lifetimes. We all have

a great tapestry we play in this grand scheme of reality. But what if some of those lifetimes we had a very pivotal role at one point, and then we come back to almost replay that role again in another life. And I very much feel like that may be why I'm doing this and why maybe some of these secrets are are connecting and becoming known in a way where it

almost seems more familiar than anything else. It's like remembering rather than learning for the first time, yeah, or bringing it back as quickly as possible.

One of the interesting things that has been an issue for people is well known as Graham Hancock and the hundreds of people that we have on the program each week or every year, I should say, is the fact that we are dealing with an orthodoxy that doesn't recognize earlier sophisticated cultures Atlantis, Limoria, you can name it, the people who who perhaps had technology that is more earth

centered. And I'm dealing with this right now in my writings with the Maya, the earlier Maya who did have an earth based, geomagnetic, tuloric filled society built around a science that we're just discovering right now. This is a huge problem. And what you're doing is great because you're revealing through your writing, through your research, through your travel, uh, that there are earlier civilizations. Why do we need to look at these people with a fine tooth

comb? Why? Why? Why should we care? I mean because I'm curious. I just it's kind of a secondary question to you, but it's important because why Well, the first thing to the way to answer that question is the state is to first point out that this view we've have our of our past in a linear way of slowly progressing from like stone tools and you know, beating each other over the head with like the whole flintstone idea, that concept that is like kind of silly, but the idea that that started

there, and then we've slowly gotten smarter and figured things out over time. Is this model that is portrayed to us and nearly everything that we see. And then so when people look back and they're like, what do I care about history with some primitive people that or doing something in the jungle or somewhere like, I don't care, Like what does that matter? Like there's nothing I can learn from them. It could not be more of the opposite the

truth. It literally could not be more of the opposite of that statement in literally every single way. And let me tell you why. The first thing is that when we look at the ancient past, this linear progression from starting in a primitive place to getting to where we are now and thinking where the pinnacle of knowledge and different aspects like that, first of all, I think

is very very wrong. I think it's very very wrong. And secondly, when we look at the history of how far back our story goes and the levels of civilizations that have risen and fallen over time, looking at something like the Yuga cycles out of the Hindu Yuga cycles, which point out that that's

literally the nature of the cyclical nature of our existence. Here you find that our story is far more complex than we've been told and instead of being something where those primitive hunter gatherers were very stupid back twenty thirty thousand years ago, we're now looking at evidence that is emerging from Turkey in other parts of the world, but especially like Vaughan that we're going to talk about, that is showing us that there's an entire chapter of our story that is enormous and mysterious

and mythical and seems to have this origin point that we couldn't figure out, but that the output was that all these giant civilizations were building temples and pyramids and connecting to that, like you said, that great word, the energy of the Earth. Love it that energy that flows through the earth that Nikola Tesla figured out through magnetism, that energy. They already had figured that out,

so they embodied in everything they did. And so we look now where we are with cars driving by everywhere in trains and planes flying over our head, and were like, look at the pinnacle of all of our achievements. And yet we can't even usually usually say a couple sentences without having some kind of a slang word or using some grammar that's inaccurate. We're like, we don't, We're not that well educated comparison comparatively to these poets of our past.

Go if you read something like John Taylor's book that I just a good an example of this, Like, give me an example I spent. I just did a podcast on this book two days ago. This is from the eighteen hundreds, from man named John Taylor. In reading his words, you realize that we've lost so much even from the eighteen hundreds, the way they speak, the way they see the world, the way they value interaction and

respect, and the way they value all those things. That degradation has continued to the point now where we no longer value our elders, we no longer value our past, We no longer value the things that really matter, like the Earth, are role in the universe, are the totality of reaching balance and what all all these things can unlock. But that's why I think it's so profound to go back to some of these earlier writers and some of these

earlier thinkers to remember what we've lost. And of course if you want to go back for them, that you'll truly see it. Go back to read read the ancient Sumerian tablets like read like the Auma Elish or octra Hasis or Epic of Gilgamesh, the earlier versions, because though they were rewritten in other

in our later cultures. But what you find is the most beautiful form in which they were describing our connection to everything, our connection to nature and the source of of like what we think of as God, and the totality and the fabric, this invisible fabric that exists all around us, that we're almost invisible. It's almost invisible to us. Now we no longer look at it, we no longer care about it, we no longer respect it the way

that we used to. And the ancients are trying when we're trying to tell us all along. If you want to go back to the very almost ancient text of all, they say that if we lose the balance and harmony we have within ourselves the microcosm of the macrocosm, within the earth and nature and within the universe, we literally become disconnected from the true sides of who we

are. And that is what the true biblical idea of hell is. An angelic like divine being that starts at a place where it's connected to source. It finds this way so lost eventually that it literally has no connection back to it our current civilization. Right it's almost like a whisper in the wind of what used to be long ago that we've forgotten, that we're almost trying to listen to, like it's an echo, but we don't really know what it

is, and we're trying to rediscover it. And that voice from the past that's kind of flowing on the wind that we hear is getting louder and louder as the ancient past and these discoveries are merging. The old world is merging with the new world coming together. Right now, we're finding that synergy of energy. Finally, we're finding that awakening of consciousness and that flowering that's emerging. And I truly believe that these discoveries at Lake Vaughn is that origin point

we've been searching for for thousands of years. Yeah, it's funny because you know, when we had you on this panel, you were you definitely have an affinity for Turkey, but it's gone beyond just an affinity. It appears to be that you have found, through others research, a link to the very very ancient past. Let's talk about your interest now. I want to talk about this underwater temple at Lake Vaughan. What was the dates they came

up with on that, wasn't it something extreme? Well, first of all, it was discovered those those temple temple walls in the in the temple foundations that were left over was discovered underwater in Lake Vaughn had more than one hundred feet deep. Okay, but only in twenty seventeen. You know, think about how right now, if you go on forms or you're on anything ancient, go Beckley Teppee and Karrahan Karahan Tepe are sort of everyone's talking about them

because they're shaking things up and they're changing our timelines. But those were found during World War Two. These discoveries in Lake Vaughan, if people are wondering why they haven't heard of them or why a lot of this seems brand news because they are brand new. They're brand new discoveries in the scheme of history. Like if you find a site like for instance, when they discovered Ayanis in nineteen eighty nine, they didn't discover the temple. They discover the lower

megalithic walls way down below. Took them thirty years to find the temple, thirty years to get all the way to the point where they could find that

Haldy temple with all those ancient symbols that we're gonna talk about. So even if you make a discovery in some location, it doesn't mean that you find the heart of what you're looking for right away, right And what you were getting to your point about the discoveries is that I was confirming with conferring with the megalithic expert of the world, Brian Forster, who's one of the experts on this film, and he was I was asking him on like, Brian,

is this the only underwater megalithic temple wall that has megalithic precise blocks anywhere in the world, because I can't find any other ones. He thought about it for a minute and he's like, I believe that's the only one in the world as well, which is already phenomenally fascinating because then you have something that's in a place that doesn't exist anywhere else. But then then beds a question, Well, okay, so it's not a primitive wall. I'm not

saying there's no other underwater stuff. We have plenty of stuff off Alexandria in Egypt and other areas of Greece and so on. But how could you have cliff a highly sophisticated megalithic temple wall that was clearly built over one hundred feet underwater in Lake Vaughan. If our history that we're told with civilizations emerging out of Mesopotamia is only six thousand years old, it doesn't make any sense if

you have over one hundred feet underwater. It would have had to predate the lake levels of that lake, right, And that's exactly what they found. It was fascinating to read. If anyone's curious to go read some very interesting papers, go read about the underwater discoveries in Lake Vaughan and where they discuss geologically and climatologically when the lake would have been low enough to be able to

build at that level. And some of the scientists were like throwing out dates like fifteen thousand years ago because that's what the glacial minimum for when that lake was as low as it was, which literally ties in exactly with the timeframe of everything we're talking about now with this new timeline of history and these lost civilizations. So who are the people who build I mean, because the photographs that you present on your website of this ruin in Lake Vaughan is beautifully designed.

It's like really, you know, high tech or we don't want to say machine because we can't tell if the stones were cut with a machine or not. But nice tools though, like high end, yeah, really high end. Beautiful bronze age not bronze age. Yeah, So what is this suspicion in terms of an age for that, because we were talking about the glacial melts into the river, that could be pre ice age or maybe at the end of the younger dress you just suggested twelve fifteen thousand in the teens.

Sure older than that. Yeah, I actually think and I'm going to make a definitive statement here as someone who studied every megalithic temple and every megalithic site in the world that I can find, and every temple site too, because we have to remember the early Sumerians with Arado and Shirupak, they didn't build with megalithic stones. They specifically built with brick for a purpose that they

wanted that time. And it's actually describes in the tablets, and I'll paraphrase it says they laid bricks in pure places and so they had a reason for that for that. But that also makes us so any kind of brick structures can't really survive unless they're buried under a massive amount of inundation layer of mud,

which is why ad Srupeks survive. However, in saying that, when you excavate and go look at those sites, you don't see the remains of there's no beautiful temple still like it's just all eroded with pottery and fragments of cuneiform tablets. Right, it's so ancient, there's nothing really left in terms of it. It's megali, it's nature of it, of its temples and its structures, they're not really much left. So having said that, I

believe that ionis temple with the absolutely stunning recreation they put into it. The University of Anchora is standbul out there, Vaughan University Professor pasaically phenomenal job. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You guys seeing that sight when they first discovered it, Cliff, when they first uncovered the Holdy Temple at Ayanis, it was like it looks like an apocalypse destroyed it. There's vitrification

marks strewn all over the walls, extreame melting and burning. Things are thrown all over the place. It looks like a tsunami and then some kind of corollass ejection heat event just destroyed that whole area, which is why they found

it such a enormous amount of sediment. But getting back to what you were saying at the beginning, the discoveries under Lake Vaughan with this megalithic temple shows us that there's a timeline here that is sterious because if Quebecley Teppe has been radiocarbon dated further to the west as being eleven six hundred years old, it begs the question on how old these temples could be though, because when we look at the ancient Sumerian stories, this Christian Noah figure that is from the

original Sumeri, last Sumerian king of Sharrupak known as Untapishtam or Zaya Sudra, you find that that's where the heart of that entire story came from. And it's this epic of the last line of Sumerian kings and priests that were going to be destroyed from this event, and they want one of them with his family was warned and that's where the story comes from. But that's how that family got from the Sumerian region over to Vaughan was from literally a catastrophe on

the earth, and it's very true. It's very well documented in at least four different sets of tablets, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Haitian Autrejasus, the Legend of Itsubar, and there is even a couple others too that are kind of obscure that described that that flood story in almost the exact same way, with this seed of mankind being seed of mankind being preserved from an ancient bloodline of the Sumerian king and his families, three sons and his and they

they are then the ones that we're finding these bizarre kings lists coming out of Lake Vaughan from cliff Okay, That's what I mean is like this mythical kind of Christian story that is like, of course, I think there's a lot of it that's not accurate in the dating and all those things, but there's this origin point back to the original Sumerian versions and all these Babylonian versions.

And then what you find is that makes this so like mind blowing is that there's a site at around Lake Vaughan, at the southern end of the lake called Cavistepe, and at that site there's a megalithic wall that's surrounded by the

more primitive Urartian work. And in that wall it has a translation cliff okay, And in that translation it says, and I'm gonna paraphrase because I don't have it right in front of me, but it says something like I King Hike and Haldy built this great temple and this civilization and all these things. And you see that, and you look up King Hike in Wikipedia. You don't even need to go in deep d deep, it's anywhere. It's very

obvious. You find that. It says right in there that he literally was a direct descendant of Japeth, who is a directed was one of the three sons of Noah. The last Sumerian version of this Untapischtam. It's like the whole story came full circle. The whole thing became a reality, from like the myth and legend side to the archaeological evidence driven side the whole the two things merged and we found these mysteries that just got deeper and deeper. That

was just the beginning. That was like the tip of the iceberg. For how deep that mystery truly went. So to answer your question, though, how old is it? I don't even think that those disasters that caused that event that led to them going there and then building that. I don't even think that was the last ice Age Younger Dryas twelve thousand years ago, which

is what I think destroyed Atlantis and all these others. I think it was an entire event before that, which is how they were able to then pass that Golden Age around the world, which was then destroyed by the Younger Dryis. But that means that Ianis, I truly believe is the oldest and most important temple in the world. And I think it's it's more than twenty thousand years old. Yeah, I was. I was waiting for you to throw that at me. Uh. It's interesting how the Sumerians chronicle these guys uh

in their in their writing, in their their tablets. But you are I want to continue with this a little bit. Then we're gonna jump into this book because it transitions very nice. And don't forget the new addition to the team too. Yeah, we should mention that that Jindeo, who's been on earth the ancients for years, has now joined Matt's team. Uh and uh, so Jin Jin's a real deal archaeologists. She's done research and done studies too. Yeah, she's an anthropolitic. Obviously, you have to be with

origins and you get archaeology. It's yeah, she's gonna be fun to It's gonna be fun to hear what she has to say. But you're assembling this group with the goal of what the goal is to have expertise from every single possible area we can so that we're in when we're in a place that has megalithic stuff and archaeology, we need to have people that are experts in megalithic

stuff and archaeology. When we're in the same place that has religious iconography and ancient symbols that tie back to the origins of spirituality religion, we need someone that has deep, deep knowledge in within from the church but has not from within but has come out that has the biblical background, but also that spiritual shamanic understanding, right, and then we also have to have people that understand ancient texts, like me from the degree of where these names and where all

these stories come from, and where we can follow this thread. And so that ended up emerging into five experts from around the world, myself, Billy Carson, Brian Forrester, Jennifer do and now Paul Wallace as well, to make five total to create this like a dream team. And I just want to I want to go back though on what you had mentioned a minute a second ago about Jennifer Dio. If anybody wants to watch that wonderful panel that we did just recently that is on Cliff's channel and is on mine. It

was amazing because I had never met Jennifer. Cliff introduced me to her just Ada Blue in that panel, and you'll see right in it like during the process, I'm kind of like smiling, and I'm like, hmmm, because you can. I've already figured it out very clear that Jennifer was the one. She was the only archaeologist I ever met who's open minded in that way

to look at evidence that is from an academic and evidence driven place. She's got a lot of experience, she's very smart, but she comes to the place where she's not going to be rigid, just like every other archaeologist. And so I feel very honored that Jennifer has joined the team and is willing

to help investigate this mystery to truly see if we can change history. So that's what it's all about, bringing these together for a film that's gonna go not only in Turkey, but we're we're working right now to see if we can make it happen on another mysterious country in the Middle East that I can't mention yet. But then we're gonna We're gonna include Peru and Bolivia as this expedition around the world to to follow this mystery and try to see if we

can lead it back to the very origins of everything. Mm hmm. So the goal is to have real solid uh content for this film. But the secondary result of this research would be that you would be publishing in papers your your work. Right, Yeah, let me get Let me explain that for a minute, because it's important that people understand the scope of this is that I parted ways. I was working at Gaya back in November up until November, and I parted the part of Ways in Gaya with these new Discoveries and

started started my own company, oh my honest legacy Okay. That became the entire foundation behind the film, the Discoveries everything. It was the engine behind this and all this work, and so I'm doing that full time now with bringing on a couple people soon, which is incredibly exciting, and we're gonna be launching this as a media and discovery company to then go multiple times, not even once in so far this year, we're scheduled to go to Lake

Vaughan and those sites two times. We're gonna be there for like a month total. We're gonna be capturing, we're gonna be doing full surveys, no digging, because we're not gonna break any laws or rules, but we're gonna be doing measuring surveys. We're gonna take measurements of the stones. We're gonna be doing everything we can that we're allowed to do to then go forward and write a whole book on this going forward, and Jennifer might actually join me

in that book. We're still talking about it. But at least we're going to be coming at this in the most academic way possible to present these this findings with every single avenue of academic and I guess sort of like studying background, sort of self studied background as well, the academic side sort of coming together to try to see if we can prove that this is truly is accurate, and so far the consensus is that, yes, this is not at

all what we've been told. This is not the Urartian civilization that we're showing with these sites. It is from another completely different epic in history, and now it's just about going and proving it. We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will be right back with my guest today, Matt Lacroix, discussing his newest book, The Epic of Humanity. We'll be right back. You don't want to practition.

My guest today is Matt Lacroix. He is the author of the latest book, The Epic of Humanity, co written with Billy Carson, and he is doing some exciting research in Turkey, which is the topic of our discussion today. I want to ask you about this because when go backly Teppie was first revealed to be was it nine five BC? And then Carahan Teppee is I don't know if it's older or not, few thousand years old, the same thing they're built around. They're pretty close. Yeah, that was hard for

the community to swallow. It's just there's still I mean I remember, and this is not that long ago. The Egyptologist was asked about Go Beckley Teppe and he was like, what who, what, what is that about? Which is scary because he knew he knew, I mean he knew. Yeah,

but this is what we're you're dealing with. You're dealing with a community that just will not budge on a timeline with sophisticated cultures, and I mean you're hoping to show them in the same kind of a context like here's Go Beckley Teppe, but now we have an even earlier people from Turkey that were much much more sophisticated. Because one of my big problems with Go Beckley Teppe

is, although it's great dating, it's very rudimentary. The sculptures are just the t shape pillars are the only thing that is of an in trust to me. I mean, I'm an artist, I'm a trained artist and sculptor, and when I see the sculptures, I'm like, this is very crude. These guys are like, you know, what do you think about that compared to like some of the beautiful stuff at Lake Von though, well that's what I was saying. The stone work and on this under water temple.

It looks like Humapuku or it looks like very sophisticated egypt temple work. So it's like and that's the big problem with with a lot of alternative work, is that you go way way back and you see extremely sophisticated machine cut stones, sculptures. We can go spend a day on that, and then there's a period where it recedes and then it picks up again. So and this is where I think archaeology has a problem is that they are confused as to

where these timelines. And this is my big problem is the timelines are screwed up exactly that and that, and that can not be more apparent with a site called kef okay Kef Temple. It's called Kef Klesi, but I don't use the word klesi because it means fortress. It's kind of like calling the Great Pyramid of Za Kufu's pyramid because he had nothing to do with it. So it's silly. But anyway, when you go to Kef, I've shown on that and you've seen that giant box relief that has the winged gods and

all that, just like it's made of a basalt. It's like some of the most beautiful work you've every ever seen the world. It's amazing, and the symbols and iconography in that is so fine tuned in the layers of how they did it, it's beyond comprehension. I'm of the opinion that I'm I am skeptical that it was even done by hand. I don't understand how it

was done. I don't know megalithic stone expert has ever been able to explain to me, especially something like that three by three by four foot giant basalt box relief that is coursed a big part of all of this, But how they could have carved that in literally like you've seen, it has layers, that has three different layers that are have been carved into it with cost within

it. It's like mind blowing. How could they could do that? But the point I'm trying to make is the reason I said all that about how amazing it is is because that's how the archaeologists found felt when they found it. When they discovered it, and that site was not found during ey honest, it was like a whole other time period and it became sort of lost

and no one ever heard of it again. But it was found in nineteen fifty eight nineteen fifty nine ish that time period they were in excavating and they

found that giant box relief with fragments and other things. And what's really sad, and I talked to Jennifer about this too, and it's something that we're reading and talking about for the film to discuss, is that there was archaeologists that came in that established the narrative of Turkey before that, okay, and then when these archaeologists came in to excavate, like kef above Adel Savez and they found that they were amazed by it. They were they wrote pages about

this and about the icons and everything. But what was sad about it was that they kept talking about the symbols and how the symbols that have been identified earlier by the other archaeologists. It was like they were trying to mold to it and it was difficult for them. They would say things like, well, we've been told that this looks like a lance or a spear, but it really looks a lot like the tree of life symbol on here as well.

It's like they're arguing with each other, but in a respectful way where they're not overstepping there they're like discussing how well it doesn't really match, but and they're trying to like make it bend so they'll be like, well, the lance or the tree of life image, it's like one's a war symbol and one's a symbol of like balance and harmony in nature and essention. Like

they literally couldn't be the more opposite symbols. But what that did is it created this entire mentality to try to to try to take the entire teachings that within that and try to weave it into the Urartian war empire that made primitive Bronze age tools and all this stuff that had none of the artistic work. The last point I want to make, Cliff, they mentioned how the interesting thing is that they found nothing culturally is advanced with artwork or pottery or stonemasonry

anywhere else in the Urartian civilization. And instead of being like, well that's strange, their answer was, well, I guess they figured it out. It's like that was their answer. And I'm not putting down those archaeologists that said that they're just doing the best they can. They're just trying to do the best they can. It gives us the avenue to come in now and to try to really lay this in the way that's evidence and objective driven.

And Jennifer has already looked at that and agrees with me that we're gonna we're obviously not gonna go with the Urartian background here because it doesn't make any sense any longer. And just like around the world, Cliff, whether it's the Inca or of you know, Machu Picchu or Oea Tombo or Saskylaman there or Tiwanaku and Pumapunku, it's the same thing. There's an older story in the

bottom and then a younger story on top. But you see that in Egypt, you see that in Mexico, you literally see it everwhere in the world. And that's the timeline that we need to get established so that we can create this understanding of when things occurred and not lump it all together and get

it all confused like we are right now. Yeah, I'm gonna look forward to hearing from you and of course Jenna, and on what you guys put together and the outcome obviously the movie, the documentary and whatever books or white papers that you release. One of the things. As a final note, one of the things that I have come to realize is that the orthodoxy the academic community is hindered in so many ways. And I got a wake up call when I was introduced to doctor Edwin Barney Hard, who's a Mianist who

we we just did a tour with him in Chiapus, Mexico. He made a statement that was profound to me, very very clear, very to the point, which is that we only know and have only excavated about one percent of the Maya world. We only have thirty known cities, and we know there are literally hundreds of thousands of communities from Honduras to Yucatan the jungle like lost right. And he said that, and he said, how in the

hell can we know so? And this is what I try to get across to the listener is that science science, and these archaeologists are doing guess work. This is our history. It's guessing. And to say that we know conclusively about a culture that is over three thousand, five thousand years old is not fair to the reader. And it's also unfair to alternative researchers like yourself,

like myself, like hundreds of other people that you know. How do you feel about that going forward, and how do you work with the orthodoxy that is rigid, unyielding in their understanding of previous early civilization. You know how, if you've ever been in your life in many different situations, maybe you've just been in a situation with people you know around you where maybe you have an idea that is rejected by everyone else and you feel very isolated,

and it's like, am I sure I'm right about this? Or like how? And then let's say instead, you like, maybe you meet a new friend you're part of that group, and their friends like, guys, listen, I've been studying this. Like everything he's saying is I think it's right.

You really should listen to what he's saying. And then a third friend of that, maybe a group of six, right, is like, I think he's right too, and then they like they walk over next to you, and then before long everyone is like, yeah, I think maybe we should look at this in a different way. And but you're like, wait a minute, you guys just told me I was like ridiculous and silly six months ago or whatever it is. I'm just there. This is a hypothetical

analogy, but that concept is basically archaeology that's archaeology. That's that's the whole and mentality of archaeology. Are these academic moguls of their time, these these heroes that have laid this foundation, and they're well studied, and they're up, you know, sitting in a stiff room with a they're all like, no, like, let that go. That's not that that's not the future anymore. Archaeology is being done by young people around the world that are open

minded and you just want to undercover the truth now. And so you have all these students that are part of academic universities that are like amazed by this stuff. But they're waiting. Everyone's waiting for that tipping point to have all those friends walk over to the other side of the group. And that's what's happening, I believe right now, and I mean right now. Look at something like it's a stepping stone thing. Look at something like we Beckley tepping

Krahan pushing that narrative back, finally being accepted a little bit. Then you get things like Braham Hancock's Ancient Apocalypse getting the mainstream, start getting more understood and accepted. All the stuff that's going on with the podcasts around the world, and it's blowing all this stuff up. People like, all right,

let's look at this in a different light now. And then, now, for the first time ever ever, you have in the light of having the interest of being knowledge and getting at the truth, and people that have their hearts in it and they're in put everything they have in this. You have actual academics for the first time, archaeologists coming forth. They're like, we need to look at this again. I don't know if we've been right about this, sorry, but it's time we need to look at all of this

again. And then I think it's like that domino effect. You get a couple academics, they start agreeing, and then all of it just flows the other way. And I think we are right at that tipping point right now. That was my next question is how do you hope to have the orthodoxy buy into your your world. Let me tell you how we're gonna do it.

We have a whole plan the film. The film is gonna just be this this obviously like kind of like the great It's like the dinner of the day, the big big event, right, the big dinner, and where the film is gonna be taking people in expeditions around the world and showing all these things with expert it's gonna be incredible. But on the all the on the other sides of that, there's still there's a breakfast, there's a lunch, there's dessert. What I mean by that is we're gonna be going to

all these sites and we're gonna be doing surveys. We're gonna be doing all this professional work that's not even part of the movie where it's like measuring everything, looking at it from like the super nerdy scientific angle to your following protocol.

Right, We're gonna we're gonna hit this from every angle, films like back behind the scenes, measurements and analysis and papers and books, and so we're going to be tackling this from every side we can to try to bring the world's attention to what looks like this great mystery that really whenever someone looks at this, I've gotten very little pushback, and I think that's a good thing. I would love if people would like to come back and challenge this.

But maybe it's one of those things, Cliff, where we've been searching for some something. Collectively, a lot of us have been searching for something, and it's coming together now to this point where it was. It was an origin of knowledge that has been far more important and preserved in secret places than we ever realize. Cliff, because the cross that is that Ionis and and a site one of the hardest stones on earth, the first cross that

was lowered there by Haldy. This anuna God that's literally identical to end Lil and Zeus and Greece. You see this, He's passing the cross and these doorways of knowledge on how to reach ascension and all these things. But that cross, that specific cross, the exact one, for my honest, just so happens to Cliff become the exact cross that the Knights Templar were protecting, and also the cross that then became the Vatican. That the number they'll cross

on the Vatican. The Pope what his cloak that he wears that cross, and the British Royals have the same exact cross, from my honest, not the Christian crucifix cross, but the Ionis cross. What it's telling us is that there's an ancient, ancient story that's been protected here, that's been preserved but has been not known about, and if anything, maybe it was lost at one point and then over time, we're finding it, finding our way

back to it again. But I believe that the secrets that come out of Ionis and the civilization I'm calling the Lost ra As civilization around that whole region with Temple and Caavis and others, and the underwater stuff. The secrets that come out of those incredible artifacts, reliefs, and these these symbols and the ancient megalists and all the teachings that it embodies that then travel around the world everywhere that becomes the core of nearly every law civilization. I truly believe that

when we unders when we finally uncover the mysteries of that. And I have very interesting, very powerful people around the world that are interested in this and are joining forces with me. But when we uncover the mysteries of this, we will finally uncover the mysteries that has led us so far away from who we truly are in our origins of the divinity of what mankind actually is. Very cool. I was waiting for you to say, now, Elon Musk just gave us half a billion, and we'll be Elon. But hey,

we're getting there. Let's let's put it that way. No, I'm serious he's totally into this kind of stuff. He'd be a great sponsor. Yeah, you know, before we before we transition into this new book. Uh, do you have a place where people can send donations and reading. We're bringing that up. I really appreciate that for anyone who wants to support the film, because we're not trying to raise as much money as far the research

alone. It's right now, it's four countries. Now. I have not mentioned one of those countries yet because I want to make sure we get that secure at one hundred percent before I mention it. But one of them is amazing. Like when I mentioned that people will go wild, so try to think big. There somewhere that the outside world hasn't really seen. But when, when When if people want to support this film, because honestly, we're

trying to do this with whatever we can. We're trying to come from this from every angle we can, including crowds funding, right, and so if people want to be a part of this, there's incentives that you can go to the stage of Time dot com and go to the documentary page and once you'll see if you scroll down with all the team members and the information and the images of locations, you'll see a silver and a gold tier for people that want to be part of this movement. It's not even the movie,

it's the movement. The film is part of a movement. And so if you give one hundred dollars, you get to have your name on the website. But if you give five hundred or more, you get to have your name the credits of the film at the end. And that's and that's on there right now. If you want to be a part of history. And a lot of people are coming out of the woodwork people I never imagined. It's almost turning into like a like like an Indiana Jones movie. It's very

cool. But I will say I really appreciate everyone that believes and supports in this and if you want to be a part of that film, it just keeps getting bigger and better, and it gives us more to do more that we can have to make this into the most grand and incredible experience possible. Excellent. So the stage of time dot com and then there's what you scroll down, there's a donation, Yeah, there's a there's links you can contribute

and plenty of places for that like check it out. It's really I really feel an honor. You'll see all the names on there, so if anyone hasn't actually gone to look, I'm very diligent about putting those in. And you'll see a lot of people I believe in the and put and it put their some of their money and time into this. Excellent, excellent, all right. I want to transition into this new book, The Epic of Humanity. You co wrote it with Billy Carson. Yeah, and a great cover,

by the way, Thank you, thank you, Billy Carson. And I I got to tell a little story, is that Billy came out to visit me three and a half years ago, getting out four now out in Maine where I nobody really knew me and I was starting out. I was unknown and I didn't even have the I think I had just published The Stage of Time or something like that before that, relatively recently, and Billy came out and we were sitting on this beautiful ledge that sits over the ocean at

Portland Head Lighthouse. At anyone listening who's from Maine or in Hampshire, loveonill that spot, beautiful spot. We're sitting there on the cliffs and I'm sitting there with Billy, and we're we were there to do something for his network. It wasn't even related to what I'm about to tell you at all. We had no plan for that. Sitting there, We're having lunch, and

I'm like, Billy, we should write a book together. And I said, we should write a book that's based on the epic of our entire story, but lay it out with timelines, and would try to give evidence to lay the whole thing, to create a complex timeline that helps the whole thing unfold in a way where we can say, well, we're gonna place like Shrupak. Here, what's the evidence that Shrupak actually existed at that time.

So the book is about our story and our struggles of almost being destroyed from catastrophes and having the ancient stages then travel around the world and then create those civilizations with that lost knowledge, which of course I feel like now derives back to Lake Vond. But the book is a lot more than that, Cliff. The idea was not just about telling our timeline and not just about telling

our story. It was something a lot greater in the purpose. And I told Billy, I said, I said, you know, I put a lot of ancient texts in my book The Stage of Time, my previous book, and as I'm talking, you'll have a segment that's got a a segment of excerpt from that text, and it's very powerful, and I have it so you can, like, if you want to look up, if you want to look up the outrahasis, you can go find where that is and

all that right, And I realized that perhaps that's the most important thing that we've lost, is that if you want to go read the greatest teachings and the greatest writings that have been left behind by mankind, how are you going to know where to look? How are you gonna know on this internet full of all this stuff and all these misdirections, like how are you gonna know

what to read? How you going to know what's important? And not that we are the ones that are supposed to determine that, but so many other people have already determined that long before me, on these amazing pieces of work that are either the oldest things we have or are come from this time period, that all can join together with these teachings and all these things, and there's there's an enormous amount of them, whether it's Sumerian, Akkadian, Babylonian

tablets or or Egyptian texts like the Book the Dead, and others like Pyramid texts to Gnostics texts and even Greek texts like the Timaeis and Critias and so on. We have many, many others. We have Vadic texts and all those others. But you realize that perhaps that's the most important thing all along, is preserving the most important ancient teachings of all mankind and put them in one place. And that is what we did with the Ethic of Humanity.

And we're prideful to say, and it did exceed the stage of time a little bit, but I we're prideful to say that this has the most amount of the ancient texts excerpts of any book in the world. And it'll give people the opportunity to that wide variety of different things to then come back and be like, have this totality of knowledge and understanding that then doesn't just come from our words and trusting our words, but reading the actual words of the

ancients themselves. Yeah, it's got a lot of a great material. You know, it's funny you just brought up Timeline and you feature a timeline of your own creation that begins approximately two hundred thousand years ago. Yes, and you get into the Anonachi and the fact that your belief is that we are a hybrid civilization, we were actually planted here by a much earlier civilization, and there's a lot of people that are beginning to talk about that but non

aliens. Though. I'm not a UFO alien guy, and I'm glad you said that, because that's not I have a huge problem with the ancient alien. I think they've destroyed the whole concept by basically anything that's not explainable was

ancient alien. I have a very different perspective around that, and I think that's one of the reasons actually that a lot of powerful people and people interested in this in a tangible academic way have come around me in this because we're looking at this in more of a way of I think we haven't understood our

reality in the right way. The ancients have told us, all along with it's ay gnostics, that this is really an illusion and that there's so much more around us, and that perhaps what we are missing is understanding the multi dimensional side that exists with us and any beings that are related to us in a way that perhaps we haven't been looking closely enough about what are considered angels and demons nearly enough right in the way of which that's been the influence all

along, and not this influence of a UFO with some green men coming down to the landing and then creating us. Even though like that whole concept of that whole concept doesn't make sense because when they show these ascended beings or these beings that are related to us, they look exactly like us. Right, So at one point we have to stop and be like, hmm, let's look at this whole like gret alien narrative, and let's backtrack a little bit

and maybe look back at a different way to look at this. That's a little bit more of really, If anything, Cliff, it only empowers us in our role in importance in the universe in a way that's makes you feel a lot more a part of something rather than being like, well, someone randomly came here and they just wanted to play around with DNA, and hey, poof, we came out of nothing. We came out of some like

Neanderthals like apes, and that's it. It's so much more complex than that it's more of like a grand stage in the universe where we're playing out how to exist in a physical body, but we are actually a multi dimensional consciousness and these like ascended beings. But we get come back here and we're part of this like grand stage of reality, like almost like a movie where we're

almost trying to find our way back. But it's part of this karmic system where we have to live lifetimes of learning lessons and finding your way back to where we began. It's actually quite beautiful, it really is. And I think I think that if anything, we should be going outside and looking up at the sun and just being like amazing that we have this existence. Thank you, And that's really what it's about. The book has so many fun

dimensions. I want you to talk little bit about the clay cuneiforms, which are featured in the very beginning. And one of the areas that just as a complete disconnect for me, and it seems to be for academia, is these Sumerian kings lists. And we also see it in Egypt too, and the academic world uses it to identify known pharaohs. Yes, and here it's the same thing with the Sumerian we know about really identical. It's like, yeah, they're almost the same thing. Which is very interesting too, the

rains the reins of these like bloodline royals. But I want you to talk a little bit about the fact that the Sumerians go back tens of thousands of years, if not further it with some of these very very early kings, and there's a disconnect with orthodoxy because it's like, well, wait a minute, we can't have sophisticated cultures that go back ten fifteen to twenty one hundred and fifty two hundred thousand years. What's the deal with that. I mean,

well, I accept it, but they don't. Well, the first thing is having an anthropologist. Now we have to remember, let's look at other anthropologists like Lloyd Pie They very distinctly found that the human brain doubled in size two hundred thousand years ago. I'm not creating a two thousand year timeline just because of the Sumerian king list. There's a lot of other factors in

place to create that timeline that is woven into that. The Sumerian king list is just one of them, and that simply is the dynasties of the original Sumerians those they're separated by a catastrophe that a new line of kings has to take over the new world. It's very distinctly shown in the Legend of Atana. If anybody would like to read the Legend of Atana, I wish I had that on the read right now. I don't, but it's basically like it goes into saying, well, there was a disaster on the earth.

Everything was destroyed, and then there was a new king that was chosen to be the architect of the new world. It literally says that an architect of the new world. His name was Aa, so it's called the Legend of Atana, and he became the first king of Kish. Year was that Well, that's the thing that we're trying to figure out is we have no idea because we're told that that time period of Kish came from like four thousand years

ago in that Mesopotamian era but with the Syrian time. But what we're finding is that no, no, no, no, no, hold on, guys, let's look at Charupak. We found three distinct layers of civilizations there, not one, meaning that if you were to look at a region like Iraq, the Sumerians was like an ancient ancient legacy that had nothing to do with the same language all of the Assyrians or Babylonians or Chaldaeans. Just because they write in qneiform wedges does not mean it's the same language. I think

that. I don't think a lot of people know that. No, it's important to understand because the Sumerians were like this mysterious ancient language. And I want to use the paraphrase what Jen said. She said, you don't get a fully cooked culture like the Sumerians out of nowhere. She said that, and she's one hundred percent right. There's this like mysterio vious origins of the Sumerians that they don't even state that they invented everything, because they literally invented

everything, and I mean like everything came from there. They invented writing, the first writing, the first currency, agriculture, that building blocks of civilization, laws and rules, metallurgy, astronomy, mathematics. You literally could go on and on and on. It's almost like if you were to create a civilization, you're like an angelic group of beings. You're like, Okay,

let's create a civilization here. What is necessary to do so well, we will lower the divine laws and rules, and they actually had a name for it. I haven't talked about this nearly enough, Cliff, and I'm glad you brought this up. They call those set of rules that they lower like the code of Hammurabi, where there's like moral laws and rules and how to govern a society, the things needed to create a civilization. They called them the mes m apostrophe s, the royal mes. They did and they discussed

how the mes, these these tablets would like the commandments like Moses. These commandments would be on these tablets, and they would reside in a certain city. Okay, they would reside in a certain city, and when they were there in the royal library, these these like royal mes from the gods, that city would be chosen to be the dominant city of the gods. And it was Aridu for a long time, and eventually it moved over to uruk Er and then eventually Shrupak and others. It moved and at one point it

talks about how Anana stole the meat from Aridu. Okay, it's wild. Okay, you can go read what's called inky in the world order. You find out that Anana was in charge of other civilizations in other parts of the world, like maybe Iran, in parts of maybe Turkey and other areas. But it's described how she stole it. She stole the me tablets and then brought it to their patron city and they almost got in like a war over it. It's really really fascinating. But the point I'm trying to make we

got down that long road is this was decided long ago. It was like a blueprint for civilizations to then create them. But then the Sumerians were destroyed by that catastrophe that flood, the First Deluge, and that's where the whole Noah story with these bloodlined sons of like Vaughan comes from, because they were then tasked with creating the new world. And but they but they had a

lot of tools that the Sumerians didn't have. They had the megalithic building style, they had these teachings of ascension that were lowered at Ionis and others that then passed around. And so what I see it as the story that makes the most sense is that imagine three sons governed by divine gods. Anana became

Athena to the Greeks. She's right there. Imagine Enlil right there, who became Halty is right there, and Ki's right there, and they're like these like the they're like they're basically the eloheme of this count, deciding our fates. And they say, Japath, Shem and Ham, you shall therefore go about each part of the earth and create the new Golden Age. And Japith is shown just in Christian. It's just like Christian Hebrew bloodlines. He's taking

over Europe. He's supposed to have Europe in Greece. And then you see Shem is supposed to be in charge of Egypt, the Great Pyramids of Egypt, which is exactly who John Taylor thinks in the eighteen hundreds built the Great Pyramids of Egypt. The sons of Noah Shem. Really that is where these This has led me down that rabbit hole. That has blown my mind because I didn't have any evidence to support that until I found Cavistepi and these other

sites. But it was absolutely fascinating because I realized so then Cham the other son was tasked with going through Iran in India Southeast Asia, and you're like, whoa, so wait a minute, So this is supposed to go to Europe with the ancient Greeks, and you find through to Timaeus and Critius that during Atlantis there was a pro to Athenian civilization that rivaled Atlantis, one of the greatest civilizations in Earth's history, that came out of Japithan Lake Vaughan in

Greece and to this day in Athens. If you go to Athens, Greece, I would really like to add this to the film if we could, is a possibility we might be able to. Let's see, okay, and maybe or maybe just another trip. But if you go to Athens today to prove this theory, there is a wall called the Picks Wall that is gigantic megalithic wall, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful that it has the same indentations of three levels on the stones as this teaching that comes from Lake Vaughan as well.

And I want to pull this up. I want to say very very much thank you to the comment that someone left on my channel, because I'm discovering things all the time, I'm learning things all the time. We don't none of us all know everything. So this was pointed out to me that in Greece there is the Greek equivalent of Noah is known as Dusa Lyon Italy is the Greek equivalent of Noah in Greece, showing that the whole story connected

all through. And that's really where this has become wild, because you're you're imagining, like, wait a minute, so Twinaku and pom pom Pu and Bolivia the same symbols, same stonework, same cross. We're gonna take a short commercial break and we will return with my guest today, Matt Lacroix, discussing his latest book, The Epic of Humanity. I guess today Matt Lacroix is coming to us from Colorado within the United States, and we're discussing his

latest book, The Epic of Humanity and his research in Turkey. That's what I wanted to talk to you about because you actually show in this book Epic of Humanity similar design features in Pumapuku and early Turkey and also perhaps construction. Yeah, engineering that's very similar. It's literally it's not even similar. Clip it's actually weird because let's take for a minute Leg Vaughan in eastern Turkey. It's the largest Turkey lake in Turkey. It's over one thousand feet deep.

It's actually over fifteen hundred feet deep, incredibly deep. It's one of the deepest lakes on Earth. And remember Easter Island, the Moai. There's this obsession with a navel. Remember a navel into the earth. Okay. Meanwhile, they're really bizarre thing because these are sun temples. By the way, if anyone wants to know their solar sun temples, I honest is a sun

temple. Meanwhile, across the world, in South America, you have another giant lake, high elevation lake that's over a thousand feet deep called Lake Kitty Kaka. And both of those lakes are surrounded by volcanoes, like massive volcanoes, and they all have basalt and andesite. In fact, the word andesite comes from the word andes from South America. But they were building an aside

in Lake Vaughan. So it seems to me, Cliff, that the builders of Lake Vaughan packed up graveled across the entire world to Lake Titi Kaka somehow knowing everything about it, and then created almost a mirror of the exact same civilization there that you're The khana symbol is from the step pyramid symbol from the box relief of kef the the cross symbol is at is at Pumampunku, the exact same cross, the same the same T shaped pillar that I'm calling the

ascension pillar that became the Gobekley pillar and Minorca pillar in Spain as well as this this pillar we see in Puma Punku, but it's got other more jagged edges to it. They added extra edges. I think it's a completion thing. But then there's it's like goes on and on and on. It's like they mimicked it, and then they created these civilizations to mimic around the world and then taught all these things and then catastrophes came through and like wiped them

all out. Everything. He wiped them out. Like that's why Machu Pichu I believe was originally built by the same group from Lake Vaughan, because if you look at the descriptions of Haldy how he's shown in his descriptions, it's identical to Ua Kosha, identical and it's not the same being as Kukocon and

Ketzaquata either, because they're feathered serpent beings that are about knowledge. I think that's more like inky Thoth Viri Kosha seems to be like basically a direct mirror of Haldy from Vaughan with these like lightning bolts and controlling being like a powerful, powerful god that is also does end up passing a ton of wisdom and knowledge. We have to look at this whole thing in a different light,

I think, going forward and understanding cycles and energy and things. But the point I'm trying to make just before you jump in, is just to say, like, this linkage is around the world, and it's profound. It's profound, and that's why so many people are coming together to uncover this mystery. Because it goes from Turkey to Saudi Arabia to India, to Egypt, to South America to ball back Lebanon, to Greece, to Peru to Mexico.

It goes everywhere. Yeah, I think people are intuitively curious and they are weeding about our history and going this, something's missing here, There's there's missing links that we need to discuss. I want you to talk a little bit about what you call the myth of Adappa. Sure, And the reason I like this is because I am fascinated about the creation of homo sapien sapien

the various levels. And when you talk about Noah, we read about their very amazing longevity three four, five, six, eight hundred years of age or more sometimes, and these are unique beings that must have had a physiology that was very hearty to last that long. So talk about that. I think it's the idea of kind of merging these higher beings of us like like us, but with a mortal being, and then you get kind of a mix in between of a long longevity. But eventually, as that bloodline becomes

more diffused over time, our ages either either either somehow through manipulation. Because it is weird, all of a sudden, we became kind of capped off at one hundred and twenty. That is weird. I will say, there's something odd there that needs to be looked at. But it's it's great that you brought that up because it's important that you look at Let's look at the

Samarian king list, right. They say, this is what they say, academics, Well, you're wrong about the age because you're you're wrong about the number of what is considered the age of a shar shaar. A shar is how they measure time in Sumer. They considered it in shar, so they would be like, well, King Ubaratutu live for this many shars, and then so academics are like, you guys, got that wrong. It's must be like months, not years. It's impossible. There's a problem with that

though. There's another whole set of tablets called the Iraq List of Kings and stages that came from a whole nother city called Iraq that has the same the same kings, same thing mimicked from another time period another one. Then they might not also know that there's another whole set of them as well from that region called the Borocious King List. Borocious was the high priest of Marduk in Babylon, not the New Babylon, the old Babylon. Babylon has an ancient

history too that's older than people think. Babylon was actually conquered and rebuilt in a later time period as well. In the original Babylon, there were these ancient lineages just like Sumer of these kings that really did rule that long. And the evidence for that is just gore Genesis. It shows right in there, Noah in there that was seven hundred years old. It's like we ignore the Christian side too in the Hebrew side that literally mimic it. But okay,

like fine, you don't believe that. Let's add another whole one. Let's add the Egyptian Turin King list from Egypt. Yes, okay, literally identical. It shows these dynasties of pharaohs over time, and it shows Cufu's group down the dynastic pharaohs. Later they're like a whole nother page. They're like way down the list, right, but at the top is this like original group like raw and all these others that are from completely different agents.

I mean, isn't Osyrus on that list and all these which they turned into gods because they're so far back in antiquity. Well, I think it's I think that the royal lineage of who was ruling was directly connected to them,

like there is a direct relation to that. But the Turing king list or also knows the Egyptian king list mimics the same thing, mimics consumer mimics all these texts with Well, it shows these enormous lineages of these ancient ancient Egyptian rulers, and then the number gets less and less and lower in age till it gets to the same ages that we are, and you're like, hmm, it's kind of weird, right, how is that mimicking all around the

world? But yet, what does that mean? Well, it means means that if that's true and the brain size jumped doubled in size two hundred thousand years ago, and something happened with Homo sapient sapians, then and you add up the entire Sumerian king list for rackalistic kings of sages, or the ferocious king list or the Turing king list, and guess what you get? Two hundred wisdom change two hundred thousand years ago. I know it's so you gotta

look at that. You can't ignore it. And that's why I put Sharu Pak and error do in that timeline way up at the front. And then if I was gonna add something to that which I need to now, I would put Lake Vaughan and the error at Civilization. Probably would have to put it something like I'm gonna get in trouble for this, but I probably would have to put it at something like fifty thousand years ago. See, I'm looking at the university professor listening to you is going like it doesn't make any

other sense. It didn't any other sense, like platistically wise, because for instance, Edgar Casey, who I think was the only true channeler in the world that I actually, like, really really respect in the way that he did. He gave this age of fifty thousand years for Atlantis being created.

And also the Cuban geologist it Are All Day in Cuba, who is investigating these underwater ruins off of Cuba that I did a whole episode with for Guy Ancient Civilizations season five, he speculated that tectonic changes that could have led to that being subducted would have had to have been fifty thousand years ago or so.

It's really interesting that these numbers keep coming up and correlating, because that's why I said, I honest is at least twenty thousand years old, because I think that that Lost Civilization chapter we're talking about, it ended at the younger Dryas, didn't start there, ended there. That's when everything was destroyed

and repped. And so what I mean by that is like, well, okay, so remember the date that Plato is given by Solon for when Atlantis is destroyed is exactly the same date eleven six hundred years ago or eight in that timeframe for when the Younger Rias shows this pulse water of massive events around the Earth that flooded and subducted plates. It literally matches exactly. It means that we can create a timeline. It means that lost civilizations all around the

Earth were systematically destroyed during the Younger Dryas. Okay, so that means that they were destroyed at we'll call it twelve thousand years ago, but that means that the whole lineage of when all of them existed was before that. That's why I give this idea that, yeah, I think that was like this fifty to potentially one hundred thousand year period of time that we created the most magnificent structures on Earth and literally created a bond with Heaven on Earth with the

stars, and then forgot everything and forgot who we are. Yeah. I have the same feeling that you do, that that there's the ancient civilizations not only in Turkey, Egypt, but in the Americas and China and so forth. Ye China Golden Age, and and there was something that wiped them out. The big issue with Orthodoxy is that where's the evidence. I mean, there's a famous story of Mark Lair and are talking to Robert Shaka, like show me the potshards from I can give you the evidence, but I've already

come up with it. My feeling is that these buildings were there, they were reused by the pharaohs and they put their cartoon sh on it. We now know that Ramsey's the second was a example, yes, great example of pyramids and making them his These guys had egos that were off the charts. But make a few comments about that in terms of the antiquity and how we identify these earlier places and how that fits into this book Epic of Humanity.

Well, we have evidence to We're having emerging edit evidence coming forward that is supporting all of this in a way where let me provide that evidence. The first is that when we study some of these structures in places around the world that are showing that Telfale sign of not being from the culture that we're told highly advanced, highly sophisticated, same types of things we see, we can we can label them all and it's kind of map them out and I did.

I've done shows with Brian Forrester if you want to check it out, where we literally discussed every single megalithic civilization around the world and try to like categorize them all and catalog them all. Okay, that endeavor is something that we need to go forward and take because it's becoming more apparent that that's not that hard to identify. To be honest, if you know what you're looking

for, it's pretty obvious to see the difference. But having said that, still, like, what's the evidence, Well, I want to give a big piece of evidence or two big piece two big pieces of evidence. One I'll say three. First, one is the stone that the hardness of the stone, with the sophistication of what they've built and the and the tool marks left behind show us that it wasn't bronze a tool and there was some kind of tools they use to build them that we have no idea what it is.

That is like a foundation right now that we don't know what could have made these scoop marks in Asthwan, We don't know what did that. We don't know what made these saw marks in Abusir in Egypt, or these drill holes in Peru and Bolivia that are perfect, literally perfect. We don't know. If anybody wants to nerd out on one of those types of things, go look at the altar at ianis that stone altar? Look right in the bottom of the altar. Somehow they drilled these tiny holes to create like a

flower of life or sun symbol and the bottom. How could they have done that? It's literally mind blowing to think that. But there's that, And then we add on to that, these sites that we've now identified have extreme vitrification and damage on them, spots where the rockets melted in a way where it's non normal erosion. These indications that some extreme event heat event, all

water event like the sphinxing closure. That's what blew off of this whole thing with Robert Bovall met up with a rubber shock and they said, that's not wind erosion on the sphinx enclosure, proving that had been water. But it's a desert. So when did it rain enough or flood enough to create that. That's the kind of consensus we're getting at. But I want to add the big one at the end that I don't feel like it's talked about nearly

enough. Cliff. I guess it's the sort of part of my brand to talk about this, But when I've studied the most incredible megalithic aspects of these civilizations. The most grand work they ever took on. Right, go from Easter Island with the moai. Largest moai they ever created, never made it out of the host rock, didn't have any cracks in it or anything. So let's just separate that silly argument for a second. It never made it out of the host rock. But not only is it the biggest, it

was three times larger than any existing moai on the island. Stay with me here, unfinished left abandoned the quarry with several others as well, same like they were about to take on something. This is the picture of the one that's massive that's still not completely cut out of the quarry, like laying down. Yeah they yeah, yeah. Now let's go to other places. Let's

go to say ballbeck Lebanon. Right, largest stones they ever created, over twelve hundred, thirteen hundred and fourteen hundred tons, never made it out of the quarry. They were being shaped and fitted and moved and they're literally still sticking out of the ground like they're half out. And you're like, there's

another example. Let's go to Egypt. Got as one egypt largest obelisk ever created by far by far was was being moved out of the rocks seven hundred tons, and they were about to move it, and then they abandoned it. And then and then archaeologists was like, no, no, no, look there's a huge crack through the middle of it. That's why they abandoned it. Or the fact that it's been fifty thousand years or whatever it was

since it was carved and earthquakes and events cracked it. So now add that one I mean to be honest is zeb Tepi is thirty eight thousand years ago, So that if you want to be honest, that's when I think Egypt was first built. If we want to give dates, is that there's a thing, there's a there's a place called Aindaro ain Dhara in Syria that gives these ancient datings that kind of match with when we look at ancient Egypt with

Zebtepi on the wall for this thirty eight thousand year period. But anyway, the point is, let's continue and let's go all the way around to China. Now, let's go to the Yangshen Quarry in China, which what is the single by far largest megalithic stone that was ever being moved everywhere in the world. And I don't even mean by a little, by a lot. The stone of the ancient quarry that was being moved, which we know is

non natural, has all the groove marks where they're cutting it. And then there's other ones that are already fitted in place called stelez that that section, that area, that stone, that giant yancient story, yancient quarry stone. You see all the areas were about to be moved, all of them. It's like very we could see it very clearly. They basically take these grooves out underneath and they carve it out and they somehow like lift it out of

the host stone. However they did that, we've don't know. But in all those examples of like the most supreme projects that these civilizations that all be taken on, and I would argue perhaps it was all happening at the exact same time right around the world. Is that when you see all these projects that are of the most monumental scale possible, it means a couple of things. One, it means that that civilization reached the height of its entire level

of sophistication. First thing, not not like weakening and disappearing. Two, it means that the work that the work to stop happened suddenly and unexpected, right. And three, it means that because they can never come back to it, it means that they all died or like all were wiped out. Those are the three ways to prove that theory of saying no, they had

actually reached the height of the Golden Age. And then the younger dryest events were so extreme over a fifteen hundred year period, especially in the front in the back end, which doesn't even include the older dryest That is a whole other thing too, is another part of it too. But just imagine events with tsunamis and massive volcanism and maybe cosmic impacts, but potentially a whole host of things happening and literally causing that entire legacy of that group to be wiped

out. To all that was left, Cliff, were a few survivors in sages and teachers from those civilizations that found all the indigenous groups around the world that already knew how to survive because they lived in the indigenous like in basically within nature, that then they had to teach them or they would discover the remains, but had no idea how replicate it. Yeah, that's how I see our history and our story. Yeah. I love that. Matt Lacroix,

we could speak for hours. We're really down to our final point here, this new book, the Epic of Humanity. What do you want people to get from the book and what's the what's the message? Because it's one of many of your books, of course, this is co written with Billy. It feels to me that it is funny because we're talking about this research project in Turkey. It fits nicely with that. It does, it actually doesn't, and you may not have intended that at all. My timeline doesn't

even need to change. I just need to add like they're as civilization into it. I don't even need to anyway. The core is this humanity has been governed for far too long to make us think that we're nothing and insignificant

in the universe. Whether or not it's through Darwinianism or just through any kind of an academic mind or through the industrial age, various different reasons have come into place that have very much engineered our mindsets to think that we're nothing and they were part of an empty universe, and we're random, and that what happens to us doesn't really matter, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

And really what the message in this book is the epic of humanity, is for us to truly understand how epic our story is and who we truly are, the struggles and strives that we've come through, these incredible epics that that great descended masters have that barely survived and like taught other civilizations to carry

on. That story and message is so moving. It describes in the Entra Haste as how when that first catastrophe is created to destroy the old world, that the gods weeped at seeing humanity like destroyed, like they felt, they felt like they'd made the biggest mistake they'd ever made. And it was this moment where in time where we realized that we're obviously part of something great.

We're obviously part of something that's far more important than just the randomness of thinking that we're not, that we're not a greater purpose than just the earth in

the universe. And I would like to leave people during this time of challenges and time of transition into great ages, to remember to have that peace of mind, to sit out in nature and stare up and realize that You're part of the greatest story ever told, and you can be a hero in that story whenever you want to be. But in the end, you're playing a pivotal role no matter what in the progression of how that all unfolds. And I feel greatly honored to be a part of the role that I'm playing to

help tell this story in the way that it was intended all along. M I love that. Man. That's a great way to end our time together. Give people contact information. You gave us the Stage of Time for this documentary you're working on, but how can people learn more about you? Give us your contact info? Check out my YouTube page at of course, Matthew Lacroix, and the YouTube page the Stage of Time dot com. And we will have an entirely new, massive social media campaign and branding run Ey Honest

Legacy. So who was listening to this, Get ready for new YouTube channel, all new content for that. We're going to be creating this whole all these discoveries and bring them all into another whole platform in addition to that the ones that already exists. So get ready for just unbelievably exciting things. In twenty twenty four, two Trips to Turkey, that other mystery country, Peru,

Bolivia, Egypt. I mean this, it's gonna be amazing. So buckle up because this epic journey of doing all these incredible things and changing history has truly just begun. Fantastic man, it's exciting to listen to you. I love it when you are expressive, and this is all heartfelt material. So congratulations and thank you. Thank you keeping up. Let us know and we'll get you back on the program once you begin to expose some of these

findings to a larger audience. Thank you, Cliff. It's always a pleasure, my friend. Let's let's connect again after I come back from Turkey. Okay, definitely, thanks again, Matt, see you. Just before we started, Matt was telling me that he will be posting the results of a lot of their research and data analysis not only to his Facebook page, but

also to his website. And it gives me a great opportunity to have Gin on his team because Jen and I communicate very closely on what she's considering good stuff. And you know, it's funny. She as a trained archaeologist.

She goes by the book in terms of analysis, so that means you have to get into very expensive research or labs, data labs where samples are taken and they are you know, you're working with what they call clean rooms where everything is sterle because you don't want to contaminate a sample, otherwise you won't get an accurate date. And so I honestly don't know to what degree this research is going to be done. When we talk about research, we can

also look to other parts of the world. You might remember our good friend Marco Vigato. He works with INA, which is the Archaeological Community of Mexico, and when he's doing his research on let's say, well Haaka Meetla, that underground cavern and temple is being surveyed and scanned and they're using ground penetry radar with the blessings and the cooperation of ENA. And this is really critical because when you incorporate a local research organization that is validated through the country,

then you you can begin publishing your data with their blessing. And this is where Jen really shines the brightest because she is a research archaeologist who has done field work for ages and has spent a great deal of time in the Middle East, and so it's going to be fun asking her and discovering what really

is the insight in the background and the revelations before it's published. And so stay tuned for more information on Turkey because I think that we're going to get some really really fun data on what is looking more and more like a very very early civilization that goes back perhaps tens of thousands of years before the Sumerian. So we'll have to see I mean, I have I mean I don't want to get into the whole and Anaki thing because that is where we spin

off into another realm. But you know, when we have valid data, we have evidence in temples, in buildings, in artifacts, then we can say, okay, this is crystal clear and we have the evidence that we need, so I can I expect to hear back from Matt and Jin and other members of their team on this research. So I hope you enjoyed that. That's exciting. That's exciting news, and I am always open to receiving data from good research. So fun. Hey, if you are a fan

of Earth ancients, perhaps you might consider a vacation with us. We got three tours coming up this year. We have Egypt April twenty eight through May ninth. We have Turkey, first time in Turkey August fourteenth through the twenty four and then we just announced we just posted Mexico. This is going to be the Grand Yukatan Tour of all the pyramidal buildings and temples in Ukatan,

Mexico, November seventh through the eighteenth, and that is love. I haven't been the Yukatan now in probably I want to say four years, it might be actually five. But Yukatan is a wonderful place to see ruins, to climb pyramids. It's really an adult playland. And we're gonna be connecting with my old friend Mimo Gonzalez. I reference him to anybody who wants to see

Chichinitza because he works there. But I just heard that they have unveiled a new portion of Ushmol, which is where the Pyramid of the Magician is and Ushmol is magical, magical. So if you're interested in any of these sites, go to Earthancients dot com, click on the tour button and you'll see the itineraries for all three of those places. Now, this is probably the last year we're gonna be able to hold our price down for Egypt, and

Egypt is magical. We not only go and see the major pyramids and the Giza Plateau, we go to the Red and the Bent Pyramid privately without any of the general public. And I've added a couple of new sites where we get to see these monoliths, these monstrosities, fifty to seventy ton statues that are not only beautifully carved, but it's really a question as to what the tool to carve them from, granted was, we don't know because there's no

tooling marks. And there's greater speculation now about these because the Egyptians are allowing outside scientific study and I'm waiting for some Germans research to come back that really is shedding light into laser technology or some form of heat that can burn stone as being the tools for carving these megalithic stones. Come out and join me. We only take small people, small groups, twenty maybe thirty people. We're about halfway full right now. We want to complete this so everyone can

have a blast. It is not to be missed. April twenty eighth, May ninth from the Full light itinerary. Go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours on any of our tours. If you have any questions, send me an email. Send it to Earth Ancients the number four of the letter you at gmail dot com, and I'll get back to you. These are not only wonderful experiences, they're very deeply spiritual. These are sacred places that

we go to. So we do a small meditative access point is called we call it the intention work, so that you don't simply observe it visually, you tap into it spiritually and physically, so that you get the full experience that you'll never forget again. For more information, go to Earthagents dot com, forward Slash Tours and check it out. All right, that's it for this program. When I think my guest today Matt Lacroix, coming to us from Colorado, USA, and as always, the team of Gail Tour,

Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock, all right, take care of be well, and we'll talk to you next time. SHO show st