Graham Hancock: Earth's Hidden History

This week we are at the pinnacle of the best of the best. And if you have been following the Earth Ancients podcast for a few years now, you know that we do a culmination of top names, top speakers, top individuals who are the movers and shakers of all things ancient, all things questioning

the anomalies of the past, the history of the past. And today my guest is Graham Hancock, and we just finished our interview and we're covering a number of provocative topics, including his work on ancient apocalypse, what the reaction of the scientific community was. We also get into DMT, the psychedelic drug used for exploring consciousness, as well as other realms. We talk about what the previous epoch looked like, what the Homo sapiens were like, because we

do know there are Homo sapien sapiens in the previous epoch. And it's fun for me to catch up with Graham because we are seeing each other at different conferences. But he's basically saying, Cliff, I'm not going to talk with you until the end of the year. We do a kind of a culminating year for him and we touch base. So today is the best of the best with Graham Hancock. Here on Earth Ancients or Saturday, December sixteenth,

twenty twenty three. This is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff dunning Well. Hello, happy holidays, Welcome to Earth Ancients. Come on in and have a chair and let's talk. I've been doing the culminating series now for god. I think it's been at least five or seven years now. People like used to beat Randall Carlson, Graham Hancock, Michael Krimo and so forth and so on. Every year it shifts, But I try to keep focused and get Graham on the program because he's a hard one to track down.

He's very, very busy. He's traveling all over the place and we bump into each other all the time at different conferences, and he kind of knows that we're gonna be speaking towards the end of the year, and so he won't typically sit with me and do a impromptu interview because he knows we'll catch each other at another time. So today this is what we're doing. We're speaking with Graham on a lot of different topics. Although it's only about

an hour, we do get into the depth of making Ancient Apocalypse. I had a little bit of a hand in doing that. So his I mentioned this before his producer who was contacting me wanting to know about people who could be on the program here in the Americas, and I was happy to help, and so I was kind of a consultant, I guess you could say, for the program, and it was my pleasure, of course. And

we also discuss other areas in this one hour interview. And you know, the whole thing about the ancient past is that it's interpretation and questionable theories. And you know, we're given a history that for a great deal the periods that are discussed, it's guesswork. It's simply guesswork. And we know this when it comes to the Maya, which is one of my favorite subjects and the basis for my research and writing, but also other ancient cultures in the

Middle East, which is the Egyptians. Because there's no writing, because there's no data on these we have archaeologists and anthropologists guessing along the way, you know, and a lot of its educated guests, and so it's not too far off, but a lot of it is far off. And you'll hear in our interview with Graham today. He also wondering why these academics are so

upset at his conclusions. And it's not just Graham. There's you know, many people that he represents and highlights in his works and his writings who are also on what is considered an alternate perspective of history, not necessarily the mainstream narrative. And I don't know why archaeologists get so upset at Graham Hancock's Ancient

Apocalypse series. They were very threatened. But I believe that Graham gives a honest perspective of an alternative look at the ancient past and another way to look at it. And what he says is something that I've come across a lot, is that a lot of the world is questioning our written history. It doesn't feel right. There's a natural inclination to really question, wait a minute,

what are you writing about here. We really find it when it comes to indigenous people who look at our history and go, wait a minute, this is not what we are about. This is not our history. This is a narrative that is the white man's point of view. And as I've talked about when we talk about the natives of the Americas, the Maya, the toll Tech the Aztec and so forth and so on. It's completely whitewashed,

literally whitewashed. And the perspectives we're getting our dummied down. They're not necessarily the stories or the oral traditions, which in many cases are never used. And it's wrong, it's not right at all. So we don't want to beat up on anthropologists and archaeologists because they're having problems of their own with what they're putting out there. We just want to and in this case,

Graham Hancock wants to offer another narrative. And I think if you begin to look at his work, if you haven't read his books, you should go out and get him. And if you haven't seen Ancient Apocalypse, which is on I believe it's free, if you're a prime member of Amazon, you

should look at his seven part series. It's fascinating and it's not that deep, I mean, and it's easy to see because there are each episodes like thirty or forty five minutes, and they go quick and they're fascinating to consider. So we had a lot to talk about, and I could sit down and talk with Graham for hours and hours and hours because a lot of his work is compelling. I consider earth ancients to also be a platform for original

thinking, for also alternative thinking. And if you've been listening to me for a while, you know that although there is a case to be made for ancient aliens in the distant past, most notably through the indigenous traditions of star people and which are aliens, know that the other side of it, which is anything we can't explain what's to be ancient aliens, is really abhurrent for me. It's something that I think has been taken a little too far.

You know. It's a great deal of fun, you know, And this is why the entire industry, the ancient alien industry, is so big, because people are like, wow, are we from the stars? Are we from ancient alien? And so on? But I don't want to beat that up too much because I kind of flow with it to some degree. And whenever you have guys on the program like doctor Avy Loeb who are now directing our thinking towards probes, ancient probes affecting the Earth and scanning us for our

data and also breaking up in our atmosphere. These probes are breaking up and landing in the ocean, and he's going out and collecting bits and pieces of him to see what's going on. This is a important you know. So there is an alien component, but it's different for me, and I think you know that. So today's program is Earth's Hidden History, and my guest today is Graham Hancock. You know the old saying, I love coffee, but coffee doesn't love me. It's really true. In my case, I

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you'll get half off this program. Great way to deal with holiday issues. Also a great product to start the new year. We've been talking about epochs then a number of weeks now. We've had a number of different guests on the program, and it's still a question about our past, but it's getting clearer and clearer. And my guest today is Graham Hancock. You guys all

know who he is. Prolific writer, fascinating lecturer and recently the host of Netflix Ancient Apocalypse, which was a seven episode series that came out November of last year. I was amazed when I was looking at the numbers. Twenty five million people on the first series in thirty one country. This is an amazing number of people and it shows you just how interested people are in the ancient past. So I want to welcome Graham. Graham, great to see

you, Thank you for joining me today on Earth Ancients. Thank you, Cliff, and you're right, I think there is a huge interest in the past, and there's an increasing there's an increasing disrust distrust of the narrative that is spun by mainstream archaeology. Just as we rightly become becoming suspicious of all authority figures, it's good to not take everything that archaeologists say at face value. I'm not saying that there's an archaeological conspiracy to hide the truth. I

don't think there is any such thing. But I think that archaeologists get locked into their particular perspective and their particular framework, and it makes it difficult for them to see outside the box. And that's why it's useful that it's possible to have some outside the box thinking put into the mix. As well as the dominant role that archaeology plays in our thinking about the past. I mean, archaeologists complain that I was given a huge platform by Netflix, but I

don't think we should forget that archaeology itself has a huge platform. Archaeology dominates all teaching in our schools and universities about prehistory, and it dominates all stories

on prehistory in the mainstream media. So nobody can match that level of outreach that people are taking in almost from their early years of childhood all the way through their life, Which which which, which archaeology has and I think it's I think it's really important that there's some opposition to that and and and alternative

narratives that are being offered. I want to talk about their reaction to your Netflix series in a second here, but I'd like to get a sense after writing for years and going through publishers and dealing with editors of your books and that whole headache can be a headache, what was your experience like with a a company like Netflix? And and I mean it must have been hours and hours to set up each location, to decide on what to choose, and

then bringing it all together in an edited format. Absolutely, Yeah, it was. I I would say that the experience by and large was extremely positive to me. To be clear, Netflix don't make much programming themselves. The programming for Netflix is almost all made by independent production companies, particularly where it comes to documentary programming. And the independent production company that made my series is

ITN Productions. That's independent Television News Productions here in the UK. They're a big news organization, but they have a separate production house that makes documentaries and it was they who pitched the series to Netflix, and eventually we were able to go ahead with it. I found them a top class professional team to work with, and I found the feedback that we got virtually weekly from Netflix

along the way also very positive and helpful. There was a sense of everybody working together towards a common objective, and there was very little friction or difficulty at all. It was a very positive experience in every way, and a creative experience. You know, my field, as you rightly say, is writing books and making television series is a different way of telling stories. It's

a different it's a different form of creativity. So it was very education for me to see a top class director like Mark Tyley, who's the director of our series at Work, and the way that a really good director works to put together factual information in documentary form so that people can enjoy it and benefit from it. It's a really good form of storytelling. Almost goes back to storytelling around the fire. Really yeah, the written word. You know,

you're you're seeing images and you're and you're hearing the words. So it's a I'm very very fond of it as a way of communicating the reaction here to my group on Facebook was overwhelmingly positive. I don't think I had one of the many thousands of people that listen to this podcast, and I didn't have one person that was naysayer. But I'm curious, did you feel that was a positive reaction from the public overall? I mean, the numbers you must

have been blown away with. Yeah, are millions of people watching this all over the world. There was a massively positive reaction. I mean, I've been a minor public figure in my own writer as an author for thirty plus years, but I would say since anciented Apocalypse, the recognition factor has gone up enormously. So I get stopped in almost every airport, in almost every supermarket, on almost every street, several times a day and asked to take

a selfie or sign an autograph. And I really appreciate that. It makes me feel good. And you know, I never forget that I owe everything to my readers and my viewers, and it's important. It's important for me to give back. So I take my readers and my viewers extremely seriously, and whenever anybody wants to talk to me, I'm absolutely ready to talk to them. I love to share my time with them, definitely an increase in the recognition and very very warm and very very positive. I've never had people

stop me in the street and say nasty things to me. They've always been, always been very nice and very positive. I've even been stopped in the street by archaeologists. There was a Swedish archaeologist who stopped me in the street here in the city of Bath where I live in the UK, and she said, you're Graham Hancock. You should know that not every archaeologist takes you a lot of us. Yeah, no, they totally. I have a

lot of archaeologies friends here who just thought that the show was wonderful. I want to touch on real briefly though, that the National archaeological community here in the United States had a conniption and wrote a very serious letter. I wanted just to talk briefly about it, because it's not a positive point. They called you a racist, they called you every other kind of stupid, a verb to describe what you were trying to do, a threat to their institutions,

and so on. That must have just been well, I mean, you've had this before, and we know that you've had the level. Yeah, the level was much higher. Yeah, they dial, they really ramped up the level of this. I published that open letter that the Society for American Society for American Archaeology wrote to Netflix. I published it on my website, and I also published a detailed refutation of that letter on my website,

both both together. So if anybody wants to see the full text of that letter, just go to my blog page on my website, Grahamhancock dot com and you'll find it very quickly. You'll see the whole letter from the Society for American Archaeologists, and you'll see my response to it. Point by point. I mean, it's clearly an exercise in propaganda, not in any kind

of straightforward academic criticism that the Society for American Archaeology was involved in. It's propaganda designed to do damage to me, to defame me, and to misrepresent me. Thus, for example, accusing me of encouraging racism and white supremacism in a show that doesn't have a single word to say about race or color is an extraordinary thing to do. It's almost as though they either deliberately misrepresented the show or they just didn't watch the show and they just said, what

can we say? What can we say that, we'll turn people off Hancock's work. Oh, we'll call him a racist. We'll call him a white supremacist. Not only that, they also said that the show promoted misogyny and anti semitism. None of these issues are in any way touched upon in the series, but they're useful labels if you want to use propaganda to put somebody down, and that's clearly what was going on here. So shame on them as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I thought it was a little over

reaction to your material. Since you've been out for it, You're not like coming out of nowhere. You've been established for decades. Yeah, more than thirty years. I've been writing and invest the gating and researching in this in this field, and I've I've published more than a dozen books related to the subject. And these are big books. I mean books sometimes running six seven

hundred pages in length, often with thousands of footnotes. I tried try my best to thoroughly document my sources so that so that people can can know where where I'm coming from. And I think that I think that the institution of archaeology. I will not say any specific archaeologists, but archaeology as an institution reacted to my series much of the way that that the human body reacts to to an infection. They treated me like some sort of infection of archaeology.

There and and and that their immune system rose up to try and strike me down in every possible way and and and utilize me. And it's a pity that it has to be like that. I I I actually couldn't do any of the work that I do without the work that archaeologists do. I have a lot of for archaeologists, and I appreciate the groundwork they do. I

don't think they're engaged in any kind of conspiracy against me. I think they're just very locked in to a particular mindset, and they honestly believe they're right and that I'm wrong, and that I'm a danger to the narrative they tell about the past. And unfortunately, instead of engaging in positive and worthwhile discussion with me, they chose to take this propaganda route, and I think ultimately

that will play very badly for them. Yeah. I have a close friend who actually leads our meso American tours named doctor Edwin Barnhardt, who made a great statement about two months ago. He says, we have about one percent, less than one percent of our knowledge about the Maya, and yet we write the books on it. And this is very, very telling, simply because any question about the Maya outside of the Orthodox is pretty much put down.

Why does orthodoxy have such a problem with the possibilities of an earlier epoch and the development of a high civilization. Yeah, it's I think it's a very worrying it's a very worrying situation that there is such closed mindedness about the past, and that archaeology as an institution has such a conviction that they're right and that everybody else is wrong, and that they're the only people who are authorized to speak about the human past. This simply cannot be healthy. The

human past is the possession of all of us human beings. It's our shared legacy from the past, and we all have a right to express our points of view and tell others what we think we know and what we've found out

about the past, and share that with others. And it's very unhealthy that a very small group of individuals, I mean, I suppose there might be perhaps in the United States five or six thousand archaeologists, and those who are particularly active in putting down alternative points of view, or even less in number, probably not more than a few hundred of them. And it's very it's very unfortunate that they should have, you know, such a dominant voice,

such a dominant public voice, within within archaeology. And I don't think they're doing archaeology a good service, and I don't think they're doing humanity a good

service by doing that. They would they would do much better by themselves and by the rest of us if they were a little kinder and a little more generous in spirit, and a little more open minded, a little more willing to consider that they actually could be wrong about things, that they could make mistakes, because we're all human beings, and we all we all make mistakes, and and and and for for for a discipline to say we are right,

we know the truth about the past, We absolutely know the truth about the past. That's that's really wrong, especially when so little of the world has actually been subjected to any kind of detailed archaeological investigation, and when so much of the past has been lost. I mean, consider those five thous and Mayan codices that were burnt by the Spaniards on a huge bonfire. Consider what was lost to the human race in that, in that immolation of knowledge

from the from the remote past. How can we possibly say that we know everything about the remote past when so much of it has been deliberately burnt and destroyed. How can we say that we that we as they said in that Society for American Archaeology led it to Netflix. They said, they literally said, we know that there was no lost civilization during the Ice Age. How can they possibly know that there's so much There's so much of the world that

they haven't excavated. There's almost Yes, a little bit of work has been done in the Sahara Desert, but not very much, not enough to have confidence that they know everything. But the Sahara Desert was green and lush and fertile during the Ice Age, and it should be. If archaeologists are going to say they know everything about the past, they should have done a whole lot more work in the Sahara Desert, and they actually have done. Now

I understand why little archaeology has been done there. It's very expensive, it's very remote, it's very difficult. But that's fine. But they then should not complain to have complete knowledge of the past, such complete knowledge of the past that they can write off any possibility of a lost Ice Age civilization. Same goes for the Sahara deser it's about nine million square kilometers. By the

way, same goes for the submerged continental shelves. We know that sea level rose four hundred feet about one hundred and twenty meters with the ending of the Last Ice Age. That led really the best real estate on Earth in that time the coastal lands to be inundated. The continental shelves that are now under as much as four hundred feet of water were at that time above water and

inhabited by people. And again, yes, there's been a little bit of marine archaeology done, but not enough, not enough at all to say that they know for sure that there was no loss civilization. There's twenty six a million square kilometers there that has not been properly studied. They're wasting too much time looking at shipwrecks from the sixteenth century and spending too little time looking at the submerged continental shelves. I'm glad that some work is now being done.

The area that is called Doggerland between Britain and continental Europe has recently been recognized as an area that was richuly inhabited during the Ice Age, and some attention is beginning to be paid at that, but we're looking at decades of work ahead before archaeologists can be sure about the past, so they shouldn't claim this certainty. The other area I frequently mentioned in this connection is the Amazon Rainforest, and again, yes, there's been some archaeology done, but far too

little for them to be certain about what's going on there. And there's at least five million square kilometers of the Amazon Rainforest still covered by dense canopy, rainforest where almost no archaeology has been done at all, and the little archaeology

that is being done is already producing fascinating results. So I think, on the basis of all of this, that it's beholden upon archaeologists to stand back a little bit and to have less pride and less arrogance in their own knowledge, less certainty in their own knowledge of the past, and to be willing to consider alternative points of view, or at least to engage with alternative points of view without mounting ridiculous ad hominem attacks designed to smear those who they see

as their opponents, and that's what they did in my case. They attempted to smear my name because they considered consider me, I suppose to be a threat to their narrative. You're too popular. You're too popular, Graham as what it is. Well, thank you, But there's too much narrative control in our society by different by different organizations, different institutions, different companies. There's too much of this going on. As a species, we need to

learn to think for ourselves. And if we're going to think for ourselves, we need to have access to a wide range of information. And this is why I think researchers who are taking an alternative view of the past are playing a very useful and helpful role. Talk a little bit about some of the prehistoric I'm going to call that the term for discoveries. You you brought up the Amazon. This the soil, the tree preta. This is this is

a brilliant soil that is so vital that it can practically grow anything. Talk a bit about that well. Terra preta. It's also known as Amazonian Dark earth Ade is an extraordinary invention of human beings in the Amazon. And this invention took place more than eight thousand years ago. We don't know how much more could go back ten, twelve, fifteen thousand years We're not certain yet, but it's at least eight thousand years old, and it was deliberately.

The studies have now made it absolutely leave no doubt that this is a man made deliberately the constructed soil which was designed to open up areas of fertility within the Amazon rainforest. Soils by themselves are not particularly fertile for growing crops and

so on on. And that's why the burning down of the Amazon rainforest to create cattle ranches and soyerban farms isn't a brilliant idea because because because those those ranches and farms will only be viable for a few decades and then they will cease to be viable. What the ancient Amazonian peoples did with the creation of Terra Prator was to create areas of fertility within the Amazon where crops could be

grown. And we now know, and again this is very recent knowledge, we now know that the Amazon was not simply a pristine rainforest inhabited by you know, simple hunter gatherers. These were not simple people at all. These were people who had expert knowledge of the plants and the potential of the Amazon, and knew what they could do by creating terra preative. They made it

possible for the Amazon to host populations of millions. This is something that was just inconceivable to archaeologists a few decades ago, but it can't be disputed anymore. The remains of enormous cities have been found in the Amazon, cities that were thriving until the time of the Spanish conquest. And it wasn't actually swords and guns that led to the ending of these cities. It was smallpox.

It was the diseases that the Spaniards brought in to Latin America that decimated these cities, and of course, in cities in jungles, once the population dies out within a century, the whole city has been overgrown and eaten up by the jungle and becomes invisible. And it's only with modern technology, particularly lied on that it's become possible to recognize these huge centers of habitation that once existed in the Amazon, Centers of habitation that were joined by straight roadways, sometimes

more than one hundred kilometers in length. There's a whole, massive, untold story just waiting to be told in the in the Amazon. I'd like to pay tribute to the work of Marty Parsinen from the University of Helsinki, and

I'll say a Ramsey. I'll say a Ramsey as a Brazilian geographer. They've worked together on revealing this beginning, to reveal this untold story of the Amazon, and not only to do with the discovery that enormous populations lived in the Amazon, but also that they created giant earthworks, geometrical earthworks, enormous circles, earthwork circles, a circle enclosing a square, rectangles, triangles, the whole exercises in geometry were being conducted in the ancient Amazon on a gigantic scale,

expressing all of the geometrical ideas that we've been habitually attributing to the Greeks. They were found, they were being explored in the Amazon thousands of years before the Greeks. And it's a sad thing that the destruction of the Amazon is the reason why we know that these things exist, because the clearance of the forest revealed the existence of these They call them geoglyphs now rather similar to

the Nasca lines in a way. Aspects of the Nasca lines, but on an enormous scale, rather similar to the henges of Europe, like Avebury Henge here in England. You know, we talk about stonehenge. Actually a henge is an earthwork, and if it's got a stone circle erected inside it, then it can be a stonehenge. But essentially a henge is a gigantic earthwork, and the gigantic earthworks that we find in Europe were preceded by these gigantic

earthworks in the Amazon. And where stone was available in the Amazon, and it isn't available in every part of the Amazon, where it was available, they did also erect stone circles, such as at Rego Grande in northern Brazil. So there's a big, untold story just crying out to be told in

the Amazon right now. And again, the I think it's required of archaeology to be more open minded about this, and I want to make the point that in this case, it's archaeologists who are leading the way in revealing the truth about the Amazon, and other archaeologists should be more aware of what they're doing, of what these teams are doing in the Amazon, and more aware of what of the implications it has for our understanding of the past. Whole

areas of the world have just not been properly studied by archaeology. And the Amazon proves that when archaeology does roll up its sleeves and begins to study these areas, extraordinary findings are made. You do make the good point that there are actually in America. Before your most recent book you show observatory stone observatories,

and in the Amazon you also show megalithic structures. Why does the orthodoxy have such a problem with the diffusion though they thought that migrating people could come from the different oceans land in the Americas and perhaps settle and develop culture. Yeah, I there's there's a real prejudice against any notion of diffusion in modern archaeology. And and that's weird because human cultures have been all about diffusion since

the beginning of time. Human beings share ideas constantly. That's how that's how human societies grow and flourish, is by sharing ideas, by learning from others, by teaching others all the time. This is this is this is what happens. And I think the other thing that's not properly understood is that ideas themselves can be carried by relatively few people who may not leave They may not leave an archaeological trace, they may not leave a DNA trace, but they

leave an idea trace. The same ideas keep cropping up again and again all around the world, and I often think that the best explanation for this is that they all share a remote common ancestor not necessary. It's not necessary to assume that people went from area A to Area B carrying these ideas. That people went, for example, from ancient Egypt to ancient Mexico, or from ancient Mexico to ancient Egypt. It's possible that both ancient Egypt and ancient Mexico

benefited from a legacy from a much earlier civilization. And this is an idea that I've explored in many of my books. Right, I want to talk about something that's been coming up more and more in the last couple of years, and this is what I call temple technology. And it looks like the

previous epoch used natural earth based energy, geomagnetic energy, telluric energy. You talk a little bit about it in a couple of the Locations in the America before book, but talk a bit if you have any thought on temples being built over tulleric fields and then the temple itself being a benefactor for agriculture.

Yeah, well, I think I think it's a very good idea. I think it's very clear that the sites of many sacred sites around the world, the locations upon which they stand, were deliberately chosen because there's something special about those locations. And you will often find that when a temple falls into disrepair, another temple is built on top of it, and when that falls into

disrepair, another temple is built on top of that. The Temple of Horace at Edfu in Upper Egypt is an excellent example of this, because the Temple of Horace as we see it today at Edfu dates from the Ptolemaic period roughly what three two hundred and eighty BC. Relatively recent in other words, But it turns out that it was built on the foundations of a much older temple, which in turn was built on the foundations of an even older temple.

And in the texts written on the walls of the Temple of Horace at Edfu we find an account of this. We find that they preserved archives from these former temples, archives that have been written on animal skin that were falling into disrepair, and that they copied these archives onto the walls of the temple that we see today in order to make them more permanent, to make sure that

they would last into the future. And it's fascinating. Although the current incarnation of the Temple of Horace at Edfrew is Ptolemaic, form of the Egyptian language that is used in those texts is way pre Ptolemaic. It's Middle Egyptian. It dates back to two thousand BC plus, and clearly they are attempting to preserve and pass on to the future a very ancient message which was ancient even

in two thousand BC. We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves and we will be right back with my guest today, Graham Handcock. My guest today is Graham Hancock. He is the host of the Netflix series Ancient Apocalypse, which looks at a different narrative of Earth's distant past. To come back to your point, part of the arrogance of our civilization today, it's shared by the arrogance of archaeology, the notion that

somehow we know everything and that the ancients knew nothing. So you'll find that most people who define themselves as scientists are extremely dismissive of an hostil to any notions of earth energies of telluric energy. They don't want to touch it,

They don't want to get close to it. Even in the face of of literature and scientific research that identifies these on top of pyramids, on geoglyphic landforms and other temple bodies, this stuff is happening, they don't want to even go there, like it's I don't want to They don't want to go there because they they associated in their minds, they've they've used they keep using this term pseudoscience or pseudo archaeology, and they regard themselves as the only people who've

got a right to define what is or what is not pseudo archaeology. Actually a lot of what is now current mainstream archaeology is in my view, pseudo archaeology. Uh you know. But but they choose to define any such idea that that there might be energies in the Earth which could be harnessed and mobilized for the benefit of humanity as observed. But these ideas are not observed, and they were not observed to the a They were ideas that were very central

to the thinking of the ancients. So when we look at the careful sighting of many of these of many of these temple structures, we do find that they are at nodes and at the nexus of earth energies and where and were indeed used. Part of their function was to promote the development of agriculture. And consider how many places in the world are referred to as navels of the earth. You know, what's that? What does that mean? What does

it mean? A navel of the earth considered the Temple of Delphi in Greece, and and it's Enfholos, the Temple of Delphi is an ancient navel of the Earth. Easter Island in the Pacific in the Pacific Ocean Tepituo Tehenua, its ancient name means navel of the earth. Gobekle Tepi means naval. The Hill of the Navel Anchor in Cambodia was a navel of the Earth. There's

so many of these places. It's almost as though the ancients created a grid around the world, a kind of anchoring system, and the key key point points on this network were called navels. Navels of the Earth, and they still bear those names to this day, and they turn out to be the

most extraordinary and remarkable places. One of the most famous stories, and you know exactly what I'm about to say, is that when Robert Shock and John Anthony West were debating that Mark Lerner, and Lerner goes, there's no evidence, show me the pot shards. Yeah, And I want to ask you about this because I'm beginning to believe that these temples in Egypt, the pyramids, and many other buildings were so old that when they when the Pharaohs or

the pre dynastics came and found them, they repurposed them. I think this is a huge issue that needs to be looked at because a lot of these places, temples, sit on earlier temples, and the Egyptian authorities just don't want to use new technology. They're just hesitant. There's a problem for them, you know what I'm talking about. What do you think about the idea

that repurposing is a way to discover the ancient past. Yeah. I think that the first thing to realize is that some of these sacred sites have been sacred for a very, very very long time. Yes, take the Great

Pyramid. For example, we know that the Great Pyramid is built on top of a natural hill, the original primeval mound in my view, and that cut down into the body of this natural hill, which is only about thirty feet high, is a long descending passageway that goes down to the subterranean chamber

beneath the Great Pyramid. That passageway is about three hundred feet long, and it slopes, as all the passageways in the Pyramid itself do, at an angle of twenty six degrees, which by the way, is half of the angle of slope of the exterior of the Great Pyramid, which is fifty two degrees. None of this is accidental, and you can't walk upright down that passageway or any of the passageways except the Grand Gallery. You have to you have to crouch, you have to kind of eight walk down them. It's

quite uncomfortable and quite difficult. And in the case of getting to the subterranean chamber, that passageway is cut through bedrock all the way down to the bottom, and then you come into the subterranean chamber, which itself has a well in it of some kind of excavation inside it, and another passageway leading off it that seems to end. I've been into that little passageway I've called right to the end of it, and it ends in a dead end. But

then it leads you to question what may be beyond this? What more, what more passageways and chambers are there underneath and within the Great Pyramid that we haven't that we haven't found yet. And almost every every year new discoveries are being made. I mean, go back to eighteen seventy two, and nobody knew that there were two so called are air shafts running out of the Queen's

so called Queen's Chamber. I'm going to use the word so called because we have no idea what the ancient Egyptians called these chambers or what their maker is called them. We have no idea at all. But today they're referred to habitually as the subterranean Chamber, the Queen's Chamber, and the King's Chamber.

Now, it's been known since the nineteenth century, if not before, that the shafts from the King's Chamber one exits on the north wall and one exits on the south wall of the King's Chamber that they cut all the way through the body of the pyramid and emerge on the outside of the Great Pyramid. And this could be established and was established simply by rolling a cannon ball down

one of these shafts from the outside of the Great Pyramid. Somebody would climb up the Great Pyramid, find the opening to the shaft, put a little cannon ball in there, and roll it down, and sure enough it would turn up in the King's chamber. Wow. This is true both of the southern and the northern shaft. But nobody knew that there were two similar shafts in the Queen's chamber, because when that chamber was complete, they walled over

the access to the shafts. And it was only an enterprising guy called John Weyman Dixon back in eighteen seventy two who noticed that there were two shafts in the King's Chamber and he thought, I wonder if there's something like that in the Queen's chamber. And he went around knocking on the walls and he discovered two hollow points, one on the north side, one on the south side. In those days, people could do what they liked with a great pyramid.

There was a lot of vandalism. I'm afraid to say, and he just broke it through with a chisel, and he opened up these previously unknown shafts. And for a long time nobody knew where those shafts led because they don't exit on the outside of the pyramid. Then in the early nineteen nineties we have the first robotic exploration of those shafts Upwolt, run by Rudolph Gantenbrink.

And what does he discovered That each shaft is actually blocked after a distance of about one hundred and seventy feet by a door and a doorway with two little metal handles. What lay beyond that? Well, the technology came up with an answer, We're going to drill through those doors and see what's beyond them. But what they found was an even bigger puzzle. Three feet beyond the first door is a second door, and they still have to that a way to get through that one, you know. So it's like it's like

it's like challenging us. This incredible monument is challenging us to explore it. It's challenging us not to accept simple minded theories like this being the tomb of a megalomaniac Pharaoh's challenging us, challenging us to figure out why they went to all this trouble to create these features within the Great Pyramid. And almost every

year we're finding more and more new features in the Great Pyramid. That huge space above the Grand Gallery that's been revealed by remote scanning in the last five or six years and still not entered, it looks like a second Grand Gallery exists inside the Great Pyramid. Another passageway lies above the original entrance to the Great Pyramids. Something is something is calling upon us. It's saying to us, explore me, find out about me, Learn about me. Why am

I using the angle twenty six degrees and fifty two degrees? Why do I incorporate the dimensions of the earth in the height and the base perimeter of the Great Pyramid on a scale of one to forty three two hundred? Which is the case? You know? Again, Egyptois know this, but they say, oh, it's just a coincidence. Do you believe it's a mechanism? Graham, do you meet? I mean, Chris Dun for years has been hypothesizing that it's an energy generator of some kind, but we don't know what.

No. Chris Dunn is an excellent researcher. I've known Chris since the early nineties, and I've got great respect for him, and he's done fantastic work. And he's looking at one particular aspect of the Great Pyramid, which is that it may have been some kind of mechanical device. But was it Obama who came up with that, saying that I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I think the Great Pyramid walks and chews gum at the same time. I think it's got more than one function. I think

it's got multiple functions. There are no doubt in my mind that one of its functions is concerned with a mystery that all of us are sooner or later going to confront, and that is the mystery of death and what happens to us after death. And the effect that the Great Pyramid has upon human consciousness are undeniable. I've had the privilege to be alone in the Great Pyramid in total darkness, in silence, actually in the sarcophagus in the King's chamber,

and I almost immediately entered a visionary state. There's no doubt in my mind that something about that Pyramid is designed to enhance and elevate consciousness, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't do other things as well. So I take Chris Dunn's work very very seriously. I think it was a multifunctional structure, and it's likely to sit on an energetic geomagnetic field of some kind. Yeah,

definitely sits on a navel of the Earth exactly. Say, I want to talk to you briefly about not only Rick Strassman's work, but I was at contact in the desert this past summer. You were there speaking as well, and there was a scientist Andrew Guillemour is doing amazing work with d MT, and this is something that you're very much aware of. His idea, though, along with Rick's work, is to keep someone in a state of mind

where they can cross over a barrier and work with these other beings. He believes this is possibly how our ancestors work, bringing across ideas from other dimensions. What do you have to say about that. I think there's a lot to it. Just as I have great respect for Chris Dunn, I also have great respect for Andrew Gallimore and for Rick Strassman. Andrews and Rick have been involved in the creation of what is called d MT X Extended DMT technology.

Most people who experience DMT in the West will experience it by smoking it or vaping it, and it produces a very rapid onset extraordinary visionary journey into a completely convincing parallel world. But it's very fast, starts and ends within about ten or twelve minutes. And actually sometimes that can be a relief, because it can be terrifying. It can be so disturbing, so disorienting to find yourself suddenly plunged into a completely other kind of reality that is so different

from our own reality. I found myself thinking that during a DMT trip, thank God, I'm going to be out of here in ten minutes. It's so terrifying. On other times, I wish to be in there longer because it's so interesting. And that's what they've achieved with the DMTX technology, where they delivered DMT to the volunteers by rip directly into the vein, and they've found a way to keep volunteers in the peak DMPT state for an hour.

In fact, they could stay in it for longer than an hour, but they haven't attempted to keep people in that state for longer than an hour yet, and this is all completely legal done at Imperial College in London. And there's a new project starting at the University of California in San Diego in April twenty twenty four which is also going to be given extended DMT to volunteers.

And this time, instead of looking simply for the therapeutic effects of psychedelics, which is where the main scientific work on psychedelics is focused at the moment, they're looking at the implications for consciousness of DMT and the implications for our understanding of reality. Why is it that so many people who experience DMPT, and particularly so with extended DMT, are encountering what appeared to the intelligent entities which

communicate with us and which have teachings for us. Now scientists have had no experience of this just roll their eyes and say, oh, it's runnish. But I challenge them to go have a DMPT journey and see if they still feel that way. And if they haven't had a DMPT journey, they really shouldn't be expressing opinions about it, because mysterious. What we're finding is that these volunteers are coming back with consistent reports of encounters with the same entities who

are offering the same teachings and advice to them. It's as though it's as though these entities are real, not just figments of our imagination. And that's where I think it's very helpful to consider Rick Strasman's idea that we should view the brain as a receiver of consciousness rather than as a manufacturer of consciousness. And if it's a receiver, then it's receiver wavelength can be tuned and at the moment, and it's necessary for our survival, the receiver wavelength of our

brains is very much tuned into this physical reality. It's very much tuned into the laws of physics on planet Earth, and if it wasn't, we wouldn't be here as a species. We have to pay attention to how this world functions. But that doesn't mean there aren't other wavelengths and other realities that we normally don't have access to, but which by retuning the receiver wavelength of the

brain with d empty, we can gain access to. And that is one of the hypotheses that is being tested at Imperial College and will be tested at UCSD in twenty twenty four. Is what is the reality status of these encounters with these entities, these beings which have seemed to have teachings to impart to us. Are they just figments of our brain? And if so, what on earth is going on in our brains? You know that in itself would

be a miracle. If the brains of multiple different individuals who aren't comparing notes are having the same experiences and encountering the same entities, what does that say about us? How can we explain that? To me? The best possible explanation is they are gaining access to another level of reality which is normally closed off to us. Maybe there are some people who don't need the empty to gain access to that level of reality. Maybe highly advanced yogies can gain access

to that level of reality. Maybe people who do intense deep meditation can gain access to it. Maybe there's other ways. But what's necessary for a brief period is to alter the individual's state of consciousness to such an extent that the overwhelming power of this dimension is released and we gain access to other dimensions.

I think that's the best hypothesis to explain what's going on here, rather than some kind of brain module which just weirdly generates images of creatures that are part animal, part human inform and that have very wise things to say to us and give us moral teachings. You know, that just doesn't make sense to me that there's a brain module for that. The point I make about this is, yes, we do have brain modules. There is a brain module

for intuitive physics. Everybody has a way of doing incredibly complicated physics calculations without even thinking about it in their heads. Just consider somebody throwing a rock at you and your ability to dodge that rock or to deflect it with your hand

as it flies towards you. That is physics. Your brain, without you thinking about it consciously, is calculating the strength of the throw, the position of the thrower, the object that's being thrown, the speed of the throw, and is so fast that you're able to often able to get out of

the way. And I can understand why evolution would favor such a brain module, because you know, if you don't have rock dodging genes, you are much less likely to pass your genes on to the next generation, and if you do have rock dodging genes, then you're more likely to pass it.

I get that, but why would we have a brain module that shows individuals all out over the world these extraordinary entities that are part animal, part human inform coupled with amazing geometric patterns, and the entities communicating with us in a seemingly telepathic way. What's the survival value of that? Has? How has that ever happened? Especially when you consider that the individual who is having those experiences is physically helpless in this realm, because that's the case with DMT,

you're physically helpless while you're under DMT. So there's a deep mystery here, and the work of Andrew Gallimore and Rick Strassman, and the work at Imperial College and the work that's coming up at UCSD I believe are going to be shedding a great deal of light on this mystery in the future. One of the things that Andrew is doing, which I thought was pretty amazing, is selecting individuals who can keep enough consciousness to be able to use a keyboard and

type in the data in some system. He believes that we could have perhaps machines, complicated scientific algorithms, and other data coming through this way, and it's like a whole different level of working with the other dimensions. Yeah, I mean, it seems to me your feeling that this is perhaps fragmentary bits of evolution happening to us, where we're getting data come through and it's like, Okay, we have a new way of looking at things, we have

a new model. Yeah. I think that it's obviously going to be helpful to the human race in the future. And we've done ourselves no favors by cutting ourselves off from this kind of communication, as has happened with the most unfortunate episode called the War on Drugs, which caused so much harm and so

much damage. Much more harm and damage than any of the drugs caused was caused by the War on drugs, which ended up ruining the lives of thousands and thousands of sovereign adults who should never have been interfered with by their government in any way for exploring their own consciousness. But it's led to a delay in investigations into these mysteries. And I'm glad that finally the breaks are coming off and we're beginning to see projects being approved where it is possible to do

work that would have been inconceivable forty or fifty years ago. And it remains to be seeing what we will learn from this. Let's not forget that Chamans have been interacting with these other dimensions, if that's what they are, for thousands and thousands of years, and perhaps we should be more humble and more willing to learn from the knowledge and experience of indigenous shamans in cultures like the

Amazon Rainforest. They might have a lot to teach us about how to manage these interactions with entities which they construe as spirits, but which we don't know what they are, and nobody knows what they are. We need to investigate it much more closely and keep our minds open to all possibilities. Could it

just be our brain on drugs. Maybe let's keep our minds open to that possibility too, But let's keep our minds open to the possibility that these are real entities at another level of reality that is willing to communicate with us and may have vital truths to teach us wonderful As we conclude, I want to talk about one of the last programs that you feature on The Ancient Apocalypse,

and this is this new site, Carahan Teppi. I've been looking at your work, but also Hugh Newman's research on the area, which is pretty spectacular. Hugh and J. J. Ainsworth have done some excellent work on Karahan Tepping. Yeah, I'm wondering. It seems like, you know, I keep feeling and I think you've mentioned this too. Is this a reboot area where man comes out from the end of the Ice Age and is struggling and these are learning centers. There's just a lot of strangeness about them. There

certainly is. Yeah, I think you put your finger on it. I think it is. It is an attempt to reboot something that was destroyed during the Ice Age, perhaps not completely destroyed, a lot of civilization from which there were survivors who passed down knowledge through the generations and eventually manifested it in

sights like Gobeckley Teppe and Karahan Tepee. And then having used those sites to mobilize the local hunter gatherer populations because they were all hunter gatherers at the beginning of go Beckley Teppe, to mobilize them into activities that we would normally attribute

to a high civilization within a thousand years. They used these sites to do that, and then they deliberately buried these sites like time capsules to hide them away to ensure that they weren't contaminated until humanity was ready to understand these sites again. And well, we're exploring these sites now. The only question is are we ready for the message they have to teach us, for the truths they have to teach us about our past? And I'm not sure whether we're

ready. The human race at the moment is full of terrible leaders, terrible governments, terrible corporations who are full of the bullshit and lives and who only seek their own profit and benefit, and who are even willing to plunge the world into nuclear war if it suits their objectives. Is humanity ready for this next level of message? That remains to be seen, But it's time we grew up as a species if we want to continue as a species on this

beautiful garden of a planet. Amazing Graham is always a pleasure speaking with you as we conclude. Give me a hint if you can, of what the pre Deluvian people were like. Are they Homo sapien sapien with a twist? Are they so focused on the earth that they are Homo sapien? But they are more tied in, locked in, plugged in, and able to understand the ebbs and flows of energetics, of the planets, of the Solar System, so forth and so on. They're just a different kind of a human,

more, for lack of a better word, more naturalistic. Yeah. I think that there's no doubt that the builders of Gobeckley Teppe were Homo sapien. Sapiens were anatomically modern humans like us. And that's because we know that go Beckley Tepe was made around eleven thousand, six hundred years ago, and by that time the Neanderthals and the Denysovans had become extinct. But we should never forget the legacy that anatomically modern humans owe to species human species like the

Neanderthals and like the Denysovans. Fortunately, new research is beginning to reveal that the Neanderthals were not at all these shambling brutes that they used to be presented at, but were themselves symbolic creatures who created art. Homo sapia and sapiens were not the first species to make art. Neanderthals and Denisovans were all. And then, of course there was the inter breeding, so that many of

us today carrying Neanderthal and Denysovan genes. So anatomically modern humans are carrying within them a genetic heritage from earlier human species, and I believe they're also carrying a heritage of ideas. I think when we're looking at the possibility of a forgotten episode in the human story, during the ice age of a lost civilization,

we shouldn't look for a civilization like our own. We shouldn't look for a civilization that was based entirely on materialistic concerns, that was based highly on production and consumption and machines and mechanical leverage and mechanical advantage. A civilization that deployed abilities within the human creatures that have been allowed to lapse by our civilization. I often get laughed at for talking about the possibility of telepathy and telekinesis

in ancient civilizations. Actually, I probably don't devote more than a dozen pages to that possibility in all my books over the last twenty years. But whenever archaeologists want to attack me, they take those dozen pages and say, ha ha, haikinesis and telepathy. Well, no, I don't, but I am interested in that, and I do know that human beings do have potential today which we're not realizing the work of Rupert Sheldrake has been fantastic in showing

that telepathy does exist. Everybody's had the experience of telephone telepathy. You hear the phone ring, you know who's at the other end of the phone, and it turns out that that's the person you know. He's done work on dogs telepathy and dogs dogs know when their owners are coming home. He did thorough scientific, randomized experiments where the owners would come home at different times of day from different directions that dog would always know when they were coming home.

There's some sort of communication that isn't physical, that doesn't involve scent or contact that's going on here, and so it's foolish for us to dismiss this possibility and just roll our eyes at it. Instead, we should be investigating.

So, in summary, I think that the lost civilization that I've spent the last thirty plus years of my life trying to understand and explore was a civilization very different from our own and used capacities of human potential that we are not using today, but that nevertheless was capable of highly technological feats such as very advanced astronomy, such as knowing the precise dimensions of the Earth, such as the ability to map the Earth in great detail with extremely accurate relative longitudes.

These abilities are normally attributed to high civilizations. There's evidence that they were present during the Ice Age? Who were they present among? This is what I've been looking for for so long. Real fine speaking with you. For those of you are listening, you can go to Graham Handcock dot com, I believe to get your material. My next question is are you Is your lecture an event page on that too where people go and see you. It is.

Whenever I'm doing public lectures, I put them up on the talks an events page of the website. I don't have a blog on the website. I've been very busy in the last few months and haven't done too many entries for the last few months. But there there's for example, that that open letter for the Society for American Archaeologists and my response to it are on my blog, so I'd encourage people to take a look at that as well. All right, Hey, thank you for joining me. Happy holidays to you

and Santa, and thank you. Real pleasure having you on the program. Great to talk to you. Cliff, Happy holidays, to you as well. Look forward to seeing you in twenty twenty four. Okay, okay, If you get a chance to see Graham Hancock live lecturing or a workshop or part of a tour, do it because his slide presentations are excellent, and they're really over and above what he presents in his books. A little insight.

When an author writes, he'll submit a number of photographs that he wants to use in a chapter, and it's the editor who will either keep the photo or he'll or she will say no, we don't have room for it. And I've run into this, and I know a lot of other authors run into this, and you can't do anything about it because you are under contract to in some ways submit to the will of the editors, and a lot of times it's not the most positive outcome, and a lot of photographs

and illustrations and images get tossed that really help make a story. And so this is why I'm suggesting if you can but to attend one of his talks and when he comes to your area. Other solution is to see him in a streaming format, a live lecture that's being streamed lot cheaper. For the most part, the lectures that he is typically a part of here in Northern California, here in San Francisco, I should say, I think the most we charge is fifty bucks. But that's a lot for some people, it's

not a lot for other people. He is a dynamic speaker, he is a well of information. He is a unique individual, and I have a great time speaking with him and getting his point of view. He's just been out there for so many years, decades actually, and I always say this. When he was traveling to release one of his earlier books, Fingerprints of the guid God, I can't I think it came out in the nineteen nineties.

He came to a bookstore here in Northern California and Berkeley, and I think there was maybe thirty people or something, and it was I was just spellbound at the whole concept because I've been you know, I mentioned I've been questioning history for a long time. At that point, Fingerprints of the Gods was basically determining and selecting specific sites pyramids, temples, geoglyphs and other evidence from earlier civilizations and kind of calling them out. And every book since Fingerprints

of the Gods has been a drilling down into specific continents like America. Before was all about the Americas, and I don't think he's done with that. I think he is still spending more time in the Americas because you know, the Amazon, We've had people on this show who are in and around South America. South America has just been scrap it's been you know, barely.

It's just we just scratched the surface in terms of what is available, what has been uncovered, and there's some extremely old civilizations that are coming to light that are not discussed in Western culture. Now, if you heard what I asked him regarding the myopic view of history, in other words, one cited

one focused and eliminating Hindu, Chinese, other countries' historical notions. This is true, and his explanation was Excellent's it's like, you know, it's our way or no way, and the excuse is to be, well, this is the dominant culture. The United States is the dominant country. Now, we're very wealthy, we have a powerful military, and we have conquered the

world. Well, that's almost in the same view as the ancient Romans, they or other ancient armies and ancient cultures who conquered other people and then basically rewrote the history according to them. I can't say this is one hundred percent going on, but I do get a lot of students in anthropology, archaeology, paleo history sending me, you know, emails like, how dare you you know have Graham Hancock, how dare you you know, ask questions of

our history? And it's really sad when those people pipe up, because it's like, come on, stretch your vision beyond your history books. Stretch your vision beyond the timetable that these books and documents that you're studying to get your master's, your PhD or whatever. Stretch your consciousness beyond this because it's not correct. You know, we've had and I mentioned this a lot, and she's going to be on the show again, doctor Paulett Steves, the indigenous

anthropologist who is rewriting history. And she's rewriting it because she is redating these sites in the United States and in Canada that were once thought to be one hundred gatherer sites that are you know, fifteen twenty thousand years old, redating them to seventy five to one hundred and thirty thousand years old, and it's just freaking out a lot of established scientists. They can't, you know,

and it's sad that they can't consider. Now, I'm not talking about everybody, but where it hits the hardest are university professors who are getting grants for research, and if they veer off the main narrative, they don't get their money. Even worse, a lot of these people don't get their PhDs. If they write a dissertation and it has anything to do with questionable logic,

they don't get their degree. Now that's not everybody, and I'm not washing everybody in the universities in the same manner, but I'm saying these guys need to begin looking beyond their education. And I gotta say this, and we've had them on a lot, and I had the pleasure of meeting doctor Ed Barnhardt when we are in chopis this is the way to look at things. Yes, I'm educated, Yes I have my PhD. Yes I follow a

certain path. But wait a minute, I admit that the people who I am studying, the Maya of Mexico and Central America have only been touched upon. We only have one percent or less of our knowledge based on thirty ruins that we have excavated that's not a hell of a lot to go on, and so he's very open to the possibilities of new discoveries. So this is

the way to look at it, you know. And of course he comes from one of the most brilliant Mayanists in archaeologists in the world, Linda Sheeley, who was started off as a as an artist and then switched her focus on Mayan hieroglyphic decipherment, and she broke a lot of rules, you know. So that's the way it should be. Yet you get your credential, you pass your test to get your degree, and you follow in the footpaths

of the previous generation. But you've got to break out of it because there's nothing You're not going to find anything if you keep on this same path. And what I say is, and this is what I'm writing about. If you can follow the native traditions and see where that goes, the oral traditions, you'll find a lot of descriptions of technology, pyramid science, You'll find traditions on civic culture, how to work civically with people, the sciences.

I mean. The Maya that we view in National Geographic are the last generations of the Maya the people who built these big cities. They're very, very sophisticated, and we do have in some museums figurines that are addressed with pants, that have their hair have They're very they look almost like today if you if you see some of these figurines, they're dressed very, very conventionally and not walking around with loincloths, which is how most Maya figures are are portrayed.

So it's a it's a process, it's the whole opening to other possibilities is a process. So anyhow, I love this whole research and discovery and the possibilities of discovering the true nature of ancient people because I think we've had it. We have it, we have it backwards, and I think we view the ancient pass by our sophisticated current lifestyle with our iPhones and our computer and our cloud databases and society's norms, which aren't the same as our ancestors.

Our ancestors lived by natural forces, by geomagnetic energies, temples focused on agriculture and things like that. So keep listening. There's gonna be a lot more. And by the way, twenty twenty four is shaping up to be a real fun and brilliant year. At least the first part. We've got some really really fun, new new authors, new voices that are opening our thinking to the ancient past. All right, well, that's the best of

the best. That's the tip of the iceberg. With Graham Hancock. Next week the guest is going to be Michael Kremo, author of Forbidden Archaeology, and we talk a great deal about the previous epoch and what those individuals were all about, and we, according to him, I think Graham said the same thing. They were Homo sapien sapiens, and our current biology, our skeleton, skeleton, our physiology and so forth and so on has been is the same, and it's been the same according to Michael. For I think

he said like fifty million years, which is pretty amazing. And he'll talk a great deal about that too, so it's always fun to have him. Then we finished the year with Stephen Schwartz, and he is going to talk about a series of remote viewing into the future that he has began to write about, and we're gonna hear what the next few years looks like into I

think it's twenty fifty and twenty sixty. He has a project called the twenty sixty Project where he looks at what he believes is a new evolution of human and apparently it's kind of cool. They are Jean splicing and in these evolved humans, you can actually evolve your brain, your physiology, your body, and so forth and so on. So a whole different class of humans are coming up, and we'll talk about that with him. That's the last show

of the year. That is the thirtieth. That's December thirtieth, Saturday. So we got Graham this week, and then we got Michael Krimo on the twenty third, and then Stephen Schwartz on the future of mankind on the thirtieth. So oh, I also want to mention we're going to do our annual

panel. We're going to review twenty twenty three with a panel that includes Reverend Jim Willis, archaeologist, Jen Dao, author and phil researcher, Matt Lacroix, and yours truly panel discussion of I think six to eight of the top discoveries that happened this year and kind of review them in a round robin panel discussion. So that'll be January sixth, twenty twenty four. I can't believe it. We're almost into the new year, so us to look forward to

stay tuned Earth Ancients. We do our best to provide you with the cutting edge of history and everything in between. So fun. I have a lot of fun doing it. Hey, we're into the holidays. That means gift giving, and you know, it's fun to give gifts. It's fun to see people open packages that you've purchased and the smiles on their faces. But hey, you need to give yourself a gift too, And there is the best gift that you could give yourself, and that is a trip with Earth

Ancients. We're going to be in Egypt in the end of April into early May, and then we're gonna be for the first time, we're gonna be in Turkey in August. August fourteenth through twenty third, I believe. And these tours are what we call diplomatic, meaning that as soon as you get off the plane, you are whisked away to your hotel, they check you in, and every aspect of the tour is tailored to your desires, to your needs. And each of these and I'm talking about Egypt and Turkey,

each of these tours has an itinerary that is top notch. We go see temples, pyramids, buildings. In Turkey, We're gonna go to darren Kuru, the Underground City. We're gonna go to Cappadocia. We're gonna see go Beckley Tepe. I mean, all the places we talk about here on Earth Ancients, we're gonna check out. And Egypt is always evolving, but I'll tell you I love it. There some of the most beautiful temples and structures

as well as artifacts that you'll ever see. So for more information go to Earth Ancients dot com, forward slash Tours, t O U R S and register as soon as you can. Both of those tours are filling up, and I will mention we are also going to be in Mexico next November. We're going to do a Yucatan tour. We're going to see Ushmol since you need all the wonderful pyramid structures and cities of the Great Maya, and then

we're going to see some other stuff too that's kind of cool too. So all those tours are available on Earth ancients dot com, Forward slash Tours. If you have any questions and you're going cliff, you know, I need a new I need more information, Send me an email. Send it to earth Ancients for you at gmail dot com. Earth Ancients the number four the letter you at gmail dot com. Go Hey, Cliff, I want to go, but I'm curious about this, or I need more information or you

know what planes should I fly? And basically there are certain airlines that are better to fly long distances than others. I mean, if you're in the United States and you're hearing me, some of the long haul airlines now are not necessarily from the United States. The better ones are from Europe, you know, because they've been doing it consistently. And I have to say this, as much as I love my country, our airlines are just can be a problem. You know. It's like the reason I fly German airlines a

lot Lutanza is that their amenities are like better free alcohol. You can have a glass of wine that they're not going to charge your arm or a leg. Their food, general food, which is not necessarily have to pay for it is much better, and they just they just do it better. It just feels better. You get you get to your destination and you're feeling better. And that's huge because some of these flights are twenty hours. You know, you're stuck, you know, on a plan for twenty hours until you

want the best. So anyhow, send me an email Earth Ancients for you at gmail dot com and I'm happy to answer your question. So give yourself a wonderful gift. And I tell you it's a reasonable tour, that's the big thing. We're half off the typical tour and we cover a lot. It is a VIP as well. So we're gonna have Mohammad on in a few weeks early January to talk about his new book on Egypt. But we're also going to talk about the tour in Egypt in April and May, and

then in August we'll be in Turkey, so check those out. All right, Hey, that's it for today. I want to thank my guest today, mister Graham Hancock, coming from his home in Bath, UK, England. And as always a team of Guilt Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock all right, take care of me well and we will talk to you next time.