Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning.
Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas. While I think this is the first time we've done a Christmas Day podcast, well we recorded it a day before that, but whatever, it's Christmas Day. That's a tenth century medieval Christmas song about nine hundred years ago, actually closer to the thousand years ago. And you can tell by the instruments. They're very rudimentary, very earth laden, earthbound instruments would win and some drums. That's
what they had back then. And that kind of is a fitting introduction to our program today, which is all about early Christmas and working with the spirits, working with the nature, and working with Gaya the planet. So I think it's fitting to have that early period piece to kind of give us the flavor of what we're gonna discuss today. Hey, Hi, this is Cliff, your host of Destiny, and I am excited to have our guests back today.
Ellen Edward Hopmanshe is a pagan, a herbalist, also a kind of historian into what our ancestors did during the holidays and most notably the winter solstice or otherwise known as Christmas time. And this is important to understand because we've lost our connection to Gaya in many ways and to these spirits that are around and working with us.
And during the holidays, it's really important to have some form of ritual that's either the mule log in our fireplace, the mule candle, which is burning a candle Christmas Day and then putting our energy into that for a good New Year and all the good things that happen. We want to also understand and work with the nature spirits. And this is something that my grandfather kind of handed down to me. He was a immigrant from Germany, and
they had very traditional Christmas time. They had Christmas breads, nut breads, they made their own mead, and then we're talking in the early turn of the century. He was born in nineteen oh five, and so they practiced a different kind of commercial, non commercial Christmas where they all got together and they sang carols, and they made their own food and they made their own wreaths. But they
also were very much attuned to the season changes. And what we're going to hear about today is just how important it is to have a ritual to understand that as the seasons change, you understand what happened. You just discuss it and then you move on and prepare for the new year. And we don't do that. We don't we simply just gather. We open presents. People are rushing around trying to get people presents. The presents are really
secondary to acknowledging our place here on the planet. And as you'll hear in today's program, these simple rituals that are practiced are very, very powerful, and they are thousands of years old, and they really show that our ancestors were much more in tune to not only the seasons that are changing winter, spring, fall, summer, but that but that that there are spirits. There are good and they're
not so good spirits. There are jokesters, and and we don't discuss this a great deal of today, but there are fairies, and there are unseen elementals. And we've talked about elementals. We've talked about beings that are just beyond our vision, perhaps dimensional beings that are here on Earth, that have been here as long as the Earth has
been here. And what's important is to understand them, but more importantly, it's to take your energy and intend for a good year, to come, intend on a healthy future and healthy friends and family, intend on success, intend on a healthy guy at because if the planet's not healthy, we're not going to be healthy. So on this Christmas Day, we are thinking about our ancestors, we're thinking about the past.
We're celebrating, but we're also understanding what we're missing and how to correct that with alters, with divination, with rituals, and with intention. So today's program is a Pagan's Christmas and my guest is Ellen Everett Hopman. It's a holiday, it's Christmas. I've never had a show that lands on Christmas, and I'm kind of excited about that because that's fun and it's the first time. And we're going to go to the ancient past this program, we're having the return
of Ellen Hotman. She wrote a book last year. It came out. It's called The Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas Remedies, Recipes, Magic and Bruise for the Winter Season. And we touched on it just briefly last year and it is a fascinating book. It's very well researched. And if you don't know who Ellen is, she is a master herbalist. She's also a homeopath. She's been a Drink
Initiate since nineteen eighty four. She's a founding member of the Order of the White Oak arch Judas and founder of the Tribe of the Oak, and a former professor of Gray School of Wizardry. And the thing that's important about talking with someone like Ellen is we're into this commercial scene, get your trigue, get the lights, have your friends over, and we're forgetting the fundamentals of the energy behind the winter Solstice, which is Christmas, and we want
to talk about this. We want to bring this energy back and we're going to talk about the rituals that our ancestors practice around this time of year, and it has to do with the unseen world, and it has to do with the energy of seasonal changes and what that means to us as physical beings. So Ellen, welcome to Destiny. Good to see you again, and happy Solstice.
Happy Yule and Kwanza and Hankhah and everything that's going on.
There's a lot of holidays to mention during this time year, isn't there. Kwanzahnika and of course Christmas.
Right, Yeah, everybody celebrates the light, the return of the light. The nice thing is that no matter where you are on the planet. We all experience the dark and then the return of the light. It's universal right, no matter what religion you are.
One of the things I want you to touch on as we bring in our ancestors today is the fact that they were very much in touch with the spirits of the winter of the solstice. And in your book you talk about the act of spirits coming into the homes and leaving. What was the sense that our ancestors had of these nature spirits.
Well, this is the darkest time of year, so the feeling was that these dark, dark energies that live underground emerge at this time of year because this is that the earth is dark, so it's they feel comfortable, the most comfortable time for them. So, for example, in the Greek tradition, you have these horrible little, cloven foot black elves that can invade the house, and so you have to be very careful. You have to make sure all the windows are shut, the doors are shut, no cracks.
There's one problem though, the chimney, you know, and everybody had a chimney, right, so they can always come down the chimney. And this idea of spirits coming down the chimney is fairly universal. It's not just Santa Claus who comes down the chimney. There's a lot of a lot of you know La Bifanna, who's the Italian Christmas, which she gets in down the chimney because if everything else
is closed, the only other opening is the keyhole. So it's a good idea to make sure you have a key in the keyhole because they can come in through the keyhole or down the chimney. So these elves, they only come around this time at the darkest time of year. You had to take caution. You could burn the herb hissop in your fireplace and that repelled them. And if things if weird things were happening in the house, like things were breaking on accountably or disappearing. I mean I've
had that happen. You know, something that you always put in the same place, all of a sudden it's gone, you know, like what the heck. So you know that these elves are around. If it gets really bad, what you do is you take a strip of leather. And it's fascinating to me that this is both in the Greek tradition, it's also in the Scottish tradition. If you have a really bad infestation. You take a strip of leather and you burn that in the fireplace. And the
Greek tradition it's all old shoes. In the Scottish tradition it's a piece of leather. But but you do a lot of protection spells. I guess you would say at this time, that's why we partly why we hang holly on the door. For example, Holly is a warrior plant, and because you know if you grab a bunch of holly, it's going to prick you, right, you hang holly on the door and that will prevent evil spirits from coming in. And there's just a lot like that.
So how do we I mean, during that period of time we're communing with these spirits and being you know, bothered by them. What would the local shaman slash witch slash herbalists do? Would would she be available or he be available for consultations on issues regarding specific problems?
Yeah, well, there are a lot of the herbs that are associated with Christmas. In the book, I have lots and lots of herbs, and I talk about the magical properties and the medicinal properties as well, But a lot of the Christmas specific plants like I said, Holly, there's just a lot of them. Bay Laurel is another one. In Rome, they would hang a wreath of laurel on the door, which symbolizes victory. You know. The victors in the Olympic Games were crowned with laurel wreaths, right, and
they had poetry. I think they need to bring this back. They also had poetry competitions at the Olympic Games and they got a laurel wreath.
You know.
But by hanging a wreath on the laurel, you're saying it's a symbol of victory and strength, you know. So that's gonna scare away any any potential spirits. And there's I mean in the book I talk about a lot of these things. The spirit A lot of the spirits that want to attack the house are not that bright. So there are things you can do. For example, if you put an upside down calender. You know, calenders have
holes in them. You put an upside down calender in front of the door, and the spirits will look at that and try to count the holes, and they'll get so preoccupied with because they can't count beyond two, so one two one, you know, And they'll get lost and then they won't come in the house, you know. Or you can throw things on the roof. That's another tradition. You know, balls of cake or bread or something, you throw that on the roof. I mean, there's a lot
of that in the book. You know, how to protect the house.
So I'm calling them nature spirits. But where there are specific names and specific problems with these entities, I mean, you're talking about their jokesters, is what it sounds like. But are there levels to these guys where somebody could get in real trouble if they don't get their act together?
Oh yeah, where wolves are active at this time of year. This is one of the most active times for were wolves.
Oh my god.
And in the Eastern European tradition this is where wolf time. So fire magic is big at Christmas. That's why we have Christmas candles, Christmas bonfires. We put lights on the house, we put lights on the tree. That's all fire magic, which we remember from ancient times, which is also protective because remember, these nasty things they like the dark, and
so we make it so it's not dark. But if you want to repel where wolves, you take ashes from the from the fireplace and you throw them on the entrance way, and that repair repels were wolves according to Eastern European tradition. But I think that that there's something
much older going on there there. In the old times, it was probably embers lit embers that you would throw out in the snow, because again you're putting light out there, and that's going to prevent any of these dark entities from approaching.
We're going to get into the mule log here in a second, but before we do, are there during the transition period, is there a time to have your your altar set up? And are there special practices that we would you know, divinations and other rituals that we would practice at the beginning of well where the right now we're in the saustice, which was a twenty first of December. Is there something leading up to the solstice that's very critical?
Well, if you look at Newgrange in Ireland, which is five thousand years old, you look at Stonehenge, you know the solstice you could say it hasn't finished yet. It's about a five day period, so it's not too late to celebrate solstice. You can still do it. Really, the
sun appears to stand still for roughly five days. So what you would do for a solstice ceremony is you would gather your friends and relatives and you would come into a room and you would make sure there was no light whatsoever, because what we're doing is you're honoring the dark because again this is the darkest time of year, so we're following the cycle of nature, which is dark right now. So you start in the dark, and then you talk about the past year, what happened during the
wheel of the year. You know, what happened at solstice, what happened in the spring, what happened in the summer, what happened in the fall, what happened in the winter. You share stories, you might honor the earth, nature, the animals, you know, whatever you feel like giving. It's you give thanks basically in the dark. Everybody's in the dark.
In the dark.
Yeah, and it's really dark, because after about five o'clock it's completely dark. You know, you make sure you turn out. There's no electronics, you know, there's no Christmas tree, nothing,
just dark and you're sitting there in the dark. And then when you're done with all that, one person lights a candle and then everybody in the room is holding a little candle, and then that first person lights the candle of the person next to them, and that person lights the candle of the person next to them, and then you go around the room and gradually the whole room is filled with light. Okay, And so it's the return of the sun. And you can even call out to the sun. I used to, I'm too old now.
I used to get up before dawn, even if it was snowing in the dark, you know, and go up a hill. There was a bunch of people that I did this with every year, and we would wait for the sun to come up, and when the sun appeared, we would start chanting and singing and playing instruments. And that's another thing you can do just to welcome the sun back. And then we would go share gifts and have breakfast.
You know.
This was on Christmas Eve, Christmas.
Solstice Solstice morning.
The twenty first, Yeah, Solstice morning, okay morning, And anyways, the solstice happening is much more powerful in this artificial twenty fifth of December, which is supposed to be the day of Christ's birth.
Yeah, the twenty fifth of December was chosen as a date. It has nothing to do with Jesus. He wasn't born on the twenty fifth of December. It's actually the birthday of the god Mithras, who's a god to fight, Okay, And so so the church did what they usually did. They co opted a pagan celebration to make Christmas because everybody was used to celebrating on the twenty fifth of December, so they just took that date. They took the holiday.
One thing is funny though, and I want you to really briefly talk about this ellen which is a Saint Nicholas actually came in your book. He seems to understand these spirits. So Saint nick is actually a pagan priest. It seems like or a shaman of some kind. Who is who is? And I could have this wrong. He is banishing the dark forces in a way, because we see him in a number of different situations. Talk a little bit about Saint Nicholas.
Well, he was an actual person. He was a bishop. I think I don't have my notes in front of me, but no, he was an actual person, and he was very generous. He was definitely a church He was a bishop or an archbishop, and he gave away his possessions his money to the poor and he was very famous for that. So he was a real guy. And in fact, archaeologists you can look this up just recently, they have his skull, so they were able to re create his face and guess what he looks like Santa Claus. Oh,
my god, looks just like Santa Claus. Yeah, it's amazing. But no, he was very generous and for example, there was a very poor family that had daughters and they were so poor that the daughters would have had to go into prostitution because that would be the only way the family could survive. So he gave money to the family so that the daughters wouldn't have to do that. Wow, that was the kind of thing he did.
So the image of him with the crampises, which are the kind of a spirit, is kind of a folk tale, and that's that's that's not true.
Because Crampis is fairly new as I understand it. That's a new thing. It's not an ancient pagan thing. But Crampis is very useful at Christmas time for controlling children.
Yeah. Actually, let our audience know that Crampus is this kind of an evil looking with horns, devil like figure who uh, spanks children to keep them in h in good good behavior. I guess I'm not sure quite what he does.
But even worse, he will abduct children and put them in a basket that he carries on his back and he will ski away with them. So and and yeah, and he has a switch. And you know, I mean I was born in Austria. I lived in Germany as well when I was little. And you can always threaten kids around Christmas time, like hey, you know campus is gonna come, or you're not you know, you're not going to get any presents, you know whatever, and it works.
They actually had in San Antonio this year they had a big Crampis festival, first time apparently, and it's kind of taking a route in the United States different places. It's huge in Germany and a yeah, and you can actually have somebody carved out of wood. I don't know how much it costs, probably expensive. A Crampis figure fascinating, very strange. Let's talk about the yule log, the creation of the yule log. When did that start and what is the purpose of creating the mule log?
Okay, well, again this goes back to fire magic. It's part of the fire magic theme. But Yule log is a continuous fire that protects the home in the darkest part of the year. Same thing, Okay, so in medieval times. In ancient times, they would have had a whole tree, basically a giant log, and you just keep feeding it into the fireplace continuously during the dark time of year. So in France, the whole family would go out to cut down the log with ceremonial. In Norway's it was
the father of the home. In England it was cut at in bulk or Candlemus, which is in February, and then put aside to dry for the year. In Serbia it had to be cut early on Christmas morning and then it was brought into the house by candle light in the evening. So but I mean, they're all everybody's doing the same thing. They're bringing this perpetual fire, and that's going to keep evil spirits from coming down the chimney. Although how Santa Claus bypasses on side, I guess it's
more powerful. But so what you do is and and also if you I don't understand, if you cut a tree in the morning and then try to burn it in the evening, it's probably going to be pretty green. I don't know. I like the English version better, but anyway, so traditionally you would decorate the Yule log as you were dragging it to the house. You might sprinkle grain or wheat on it, and I have a whole chapter on that on grain. Grain itself is incredibly spiritual, very symbolic.
It's the power of the sun and the growth of the warm half of the year, which is contained in the grain. So you put that on the Yule log. You might put bread on the mule log, a loaf of bread, because that's made from the grain. Of course, herbs like juniper, which is an herb of purification. Coins. After you bring the log into the house, everything that was riding on the log on the way into the house,
like the bread and the coins and all that. Now it has magical power because it's got the power of the season, and you can give away the coins or eat the bread.
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, Ellen Everett Hopmann, discussing her holiday book The Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas. Will be right back.
We wish you, I me Christmas. We wish you.
I me Christmas, We wish you Christmass. Ellen Everett Hotman is my guest today and she is a pagan who has studied Winter Solstice rituals, mostly in Europe, but in other parts of the planet. And we're getting a sense of how our ancestors celebrated among spirits and also Gaya, this yule log could be a whole tree that they keep cutting and feeding into the fire. Is that what you're suggesting.
You don't have to cut it, you just keep pushing it in as it burns.
Oh so it's sticking out into the yeah, round of the fireplace?
Right.
Wow.
You could also put alcohol sprinkle wine or vodka or something like that on it. And coins are solar symbols, so round coins, I mean, gold would be the ideal, but who has gold coins? And you know there's the chocolate ones I guess, but that's the symbol of the sun again. And what else In England? Oak would be traditional in France, cherry in Scotland, Birch, so depending on where you are. Yeah, so it's burned from Christmas Day until January fifth.
Oh my god, So this is an ongoing. Yeah, it's an energy. Talk about the divination behind that, because in part of your book you say that you can take the ash from the yule log and place it at the entrance of the door to keep spirits away.
Yeah, well, the you always keep some of the yule log and you can hide it in the eves of the house, you know, or just keep it somewhere because it's very protective. And of course if you need to repel were wolves, I would save some of the ash.
That's the first time you've gotten into some scary stuff like where wolves ellen getting into a horror show here.
Well, you know, it's the dark time of year, the wild hunt is flying across the sky, and you got witches coming down the chimney and were wolves at the door. I mean, in ancient times, this was a scary time. Imagine your fire goes out, your nearest neighbor is miles away. You know. It wasn't a joke.
So people are imbuing this mulelog with their hopes and wishes and blessings, and it is becoming a healing and a piece of protection, is what it sounds like. Yeah, or these special times of year, right, Wow, that's amazing.
It's all about fire magic. So just think of fire, whether it's an electric bulb, a candle, a fire in the fireplace, that ule lug, it's all the same thing. It's fire magic. You know, in ancient times they didn't have electricity, so any kind of fire, even just carrying lit coals around the house. In Scotland there's a tradition called saning, so when you move into a new house
you have to purify the house and land. So you take lit coals, lit embers, you put them in a shovel and you walk around the house three times with that to purify the house. It's fire magic, that's what that is.
People who don't have a fireplace, which I mean this is modern time, or if somebody in the seventeenth century live in an apartment, you talk about the mule candle, which is the same kind of a thing, but on a smaller scale. Describe that for us.
Yeah, so again fire magic. It's part of the fire magic. But in England a mule candle was lit and burned all day on Christmas. Okay, in Scandinavia was lit on Christmas even burned all night. So in both cases you save the stub and then you can rub that on the plow, and you can also hide it somewhere in the house to protect the house from storms and again, and this fire magic just goes on and on and on. In Shetland, a Viking long ship is carried through town
and then set on fire. In Scotland there's the burning of the Klavi, which is a wooden barrel filled with tar that is set on fire and rolled down the hill and everybody tries to get an ember from that for luck to put somewhere in the house. And in modern times, what do we do. We decorate the house with lights and we put lights on the Christmas tree.
It's the same idea our ancestors. Would they get the candle from a shaman, a witch, a pagan, somebody who was kind of a nature connected to nature more than them, and that would be made by somebody with a special technique.
No, I don't think so. Just a regular candle.
Okay, no, because it's a certain time of year, that candle's imbued with certain energy, the thoughts, the feelings, the hopes and wishes.
Well, it's the fire itself. It's not the candle so much as the fire. Yeah, and yeah, in some traditions, you leave a candle burning outside and that's supposed to be or in the window, and that's a symbol that tells neighbors that somebody's home and that you can come visit, or you can come inside if you need to get warm. You know, there's just a lot around fire that it's all to counteract the dark forces at this time of year, that's what it is.
This is the first time I've heard about the candle, the old candle, so I definitely want to do that. I think for those of us who are not able, who don't have a fireplace, a candle's wonderful. And then to burn it all day that's easy to do. Is there any suggestions for rituals or divination of that candle that we should be thinking about.
Well, be careful, just be careful.
Where you put the candle, right, Yeah.
I mean I used to. I used to do a candle vigil, I guess every month, but I had to go to work and the thought of leaving a candle burning in the house was a little much. So I finally figured out I could leave it in the bathtub, right because even if the cat knocked it over it wasn't going to catch anything on fire. Make sure the you know, the shower curtain is far from the candle. Yeah, but yeah, you could put it in the kitchen sink, or you could put it in the bathtub, and then
you can go to work. That's what I used to do.
Yeah, and again when it's burnt to the bottom, that that remaining candle symbol is a symbol for a good coming year.
Yes, and protection and purification.
Well, that's easy to do. Yeah.
You can carry the stub in your pocket, or you can hide it somewhere in the house, you know, but ever you want. It's got that fire energy. It's fire is sacred. You know. In ancient Indo European tradition, the whole world was made of fire and water. Those were the two basic elements. Everything you looked at was a combination of fire and water, except in Scandinavia it was fire and ice. But it's the same thing, you know. So if you're working magic, water is very important. You
can do water spells and fire is very important. But this time of year, it's fire.
And obviously, and we're going to get into this shortly. If you have an altar, your candle should be around your other sacred objects. Right, talk a little quick briefly about the altar in light, Okay, to.
Keep your keep the house from burning down. It's always a good idea if you're gonna do that, if you're gonna have a candle burning all day on the altar. It's nice to have a metal cauldron and you can put one candle in there or three candles in there. The number three is very important in Indo European thinking, Underworld, Middle World, Upper World, triple deities. You know, the number three, land, sea, and sky. Three candles is very nice. Or just one
candle in a cauldron, a metal cauldron. Just be very cautious when you.
Do that, you know, Okay, yeah, you're right. We don't have people burning their homes down. For those of you listening, there you go. There's an ancient tradition that Ellen's presenting to us. Get your candle out. Light it Christmas morning when you get up, let it burn all the way through the day and there.
You Christmas Eve if you want.
Yeah, so there you go. You got you have a sacred a sacred item to carry with you. I want to talk about something that I thought that was quite fun, which was weather divinations and predicting upcoming weather.
Okay, so traditionally farmers, you know, most people were farmers. Farmers would pay a lot of attention to what was happening with the weather around youle For example, if you had a green Christmas or a warm winter, that was bad news. And because there was a saying, you know that if if you have a warm Christmas, the graveyards will fill up. And modern science they didn't know this, but modern science will tell you that you need the cold. Like I'm really grateful that we got snow last night.
We haven't had here in Massachusetts. We haven't had a white Christmas in decades, but we've had very cold weather. Not cold enough. You really need ten degrees or colder ten below would be great. What it does is it kills off noxious insects, It kills off pathogens, disease germs. You know, it's good. Cold weather is good. So if again, if you had a warm Christmas, that was bad news. And I remember during COVID we had a very warm Christmas. Because I remember, it.
Helps perpetuate disease processes and viruses and things like that. Exactly, it's not cold to kill them off.
It also means that plants are not going to grow as well. If you have a lot of snow and a very cold Christmas or a very cold winter, plants are going to grow better. And again it's because the plants get attacked by the insects. If the insects aren't killed off, like the wooly adulged for example, that's attacking all the yew trees.
Now.
The only way to get rid of it is you need to have several days where it's ten below. And I can remember, you know, thirty years ago here in Massachusetts, we always had a week or two when it was ten below because the pipes would freeze. You know, that hasn't happened in you know, I haven't seen that in twenty thirty years. But that kind of cold is very important. So other kinds of divination. Unmarried women would go to
the hen house. A lot of my friends. I live in western mass so a lot of my friends have hen houses. You go there on Christmas Eve, you tap on the door, and if a hen responds, that means that the woman will remain a spinster. But if a rooster crows, that means that she will marry and then New Year's which is coming up in just a few days. There's a British tradition called the flower of the well and that's the first water drawn from the well on
New Year's when the sun hits. The first person that gets the first water from the well that brings a lot of luck. And if it's a woman, she will marry within the year. I guess women were more worried about getting married than men were. But the flower of the well was given to the cows to keep them healthy and to guarantee more milk. You could keep it in a bottle to protect the house. So other things
they would look at is berries. If the holly bush had a lot of berries, that meant that the winter coming up was going to be very hard, because nature is always smarter than we are, and nature always knows. But um, I don't know. That's not really divination. If you want divination, there's a Polish tradition where hot wax was poured through a key over water. So you have a large key, you pour melted hot wax through the key into the water, and then you see what image appears in the water.
One of the things I wanted you to talk about is that And you write this in your book divination for luck and friendship, and people would make specific kinds of cakes and puddings talk about that, which I follow just because we did that last year. We talked about baking, but I didn't know that they could make a pudding that would have those properties.
It could be a pudding like a rice pudding. It could be any kind of a grain dish, because again grain is very symbolic. It holds the energy of the sun. It could be a cake cake.
Is what would be the ingredients? Though, Allan, what would be when you're making a cake for friendship and for luck.
Really it could be any cake. It could be any pudding. But what you're doing is you're doing divination for the coming year. So you have little symbolic tokens that are hidden in the cake. And it could be nuts. It could be like an almond. Whoever finds the almond has a lot of luck. Or it could be more specific, you know, like a coin, uh for wealth obviously you know, a symbol, a little piece of cloths. I mean, it
could be anything. You just ahead of time you assigned meaning to these symbols, and then whoever gets the thing whatever it is that's there, that's the divination for their coming year.
So I can see that with baking into the cake, a thimble, a coin of some kind or some other symbology. But what are we taught. How are we doing this with a pudding.
Well, when you're making pudding, you know, it starts out liquid and then it solidifies. So while it's in the liquid state, you just stick it in there, okay, and then you dish it out or people serve themselves and whoever gets the symbol, whatever it is, it's their divination.
You're a cook, Allan, So I'm not a cook. So tell give us an example of a pudding, is it because we don't have They didn't have chocolate like we have now. They had they made like fruit puddings or or rice puddings.
Ice. Yeah, rice is very traditional rice pudding. There's all kinds of grain puddings, grain and honey, honey. But that again, honey is a solar symbol. It's golden grain holds the energy of the sun. You can hide a coin in there, you know. And I have recipes in the book.
By the way, thank you for reminding me. Ellen has put in not only recipes, but all types of techniques to build your altar. What should be on the altar. We're going to talk about aultars here in a second. And she has recipes almost on every chapter. I think you have a recipe for something.
For every herb. I have a lot of herbs in there, all the herbs asociated with Christmas. And for every herb, I give the magical properties, the medicinal properties, and a recipe so that you it's called kitchen witchery or hearth druidry. So what you do is you learn the magical properties of a particular herb or spice, and then you can make a dish that incorporates that herb or spice, and you can eat it or give it to somebody else.
I mean, the recipes are in the book. You don't have to think this way, but if you want to, you can. And then that's it becomes a spell, it becomes a brew, you know, a magical brew or a potion. That's what.
So the cook is intending for the recipient of this meal or brew drink to receive and enhancements.
Yeah, and what's interesting is a lot of people do this and they don't even realize what they're doing. For example, in the south of the US, there's a tradition of at New Year's you have to have corn bread, you have to have beans, and you have to have greens. Okay, so what's going on there. Corn Bread is golden, which symbolizes gold. Beans symbolize coins. And then the greenery, whether it's collareds or kale or you know something green spinach,
that symbolizes money. And so by serving that at New Year's, what you're doing is you're creating prosperity. You're invoking prosperity for the people that eat it. And you know that's a spell right there, that's a spell.
Well, intending things to happen to the recipient of food. That's magic, right.
Yeah, that's magic. And I give a whole bunch of recipes and drink recipes and food recipes, and I go through all the different herbs and spices and so you can pick them out and depending on what you need. If you need protection, if you need prosperity, if you need abundance, if you need love, you know, whatever it needs you need, and you make a dish.
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, Ellen Everett Hopmann, the Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas. We'll rejoin you shortly every Christmas.
Baby rain Das is coming out to play. Cross is back, and.
We're discussing how our ancestors celebrated winter Solstice in the resulting holiday known as Christmas thousands of years ago. This is all featured in a new book called The Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas. Give us a sample of what a new relationship food or drink would be. What would what would you make to create something like that?
Well, in the book, I talk about the ancient historical meaning also of the foods and spices. For example, chocolate. Chocolate was a sacred drink. It was brought to the earth by the god Ketzikuadal, who's the feathered serpent, who brought it down on the rays of the morning Star. So it came from the sky world, and it was so sacred that only royalty and nobles were allowed to
eat it or drink it. And we go to the stop and shopping, you know, and buy a bunch of powdered chocolate anytime we want or go to the seven to eleven and get a chocolate bar. I mean, in those in ancient times you must know this, with the maya and so on, chocolate was very very special. So the magical property that chocolate had was it enabled you to strengthen bonds of love between people and also between
people and the gods. So the priest class, you know, that class of people were the ones who were drinking the chocolate. The common people were not allowed to touch it. So Mexican chocolate is really good. I have a recipe in there. So you put a little cinnamon, a little cayenne pepper, you know, you whip it to a froth and drink it. But when you're drinking, you know, share chocolate with somebody. And we still think of chocolate as being romantic.
Yright yeah, yeah, and.
That's because we have this memory, but we don't know why. But yeah, when you share chocolate at Christmas time, make a chocolate, a hot Mexican chocolate, and share it with people, and just remember that this is an ancient, ancient sacred drink and that it's forges bonds of love and communication between people and the gods, also between people and the gods and people and people.
I love that. Yeah, yeah, I just got back from Mexico a few months ago and we were at a Mayan chocolate factory. It's Mexican, obviously, but it had the same tradition that the Maya had, which was the beans were crushed and used for various paste and things like that, as well as drinks. So I totally understand what you're talking about. Before we move on from the foods, can you give us an example of a Christmas dinner and
all the rituals that would be placed within it. What would be the meal, what would be like other than vegetables.
I have an entire long chapter on that where I go through all I mean, every culture does it differently, right, so depending on That's one nice thing about the book is that you know, if you have Danish ancestry or if you have Italian.
In right, you go throughout Europe, don't you. Yeah?
Yeah, so you can look up what Christmas dinner would look like traditionally. Oh, I just opened the book at random, and Scandinavian almond is hidden in a rice pudding served a Christmas. Whoever finds the almond must complete a task such as inventing a rhyme of thanks for the meal. In Ukraine, Poland and Russia, the Christmas dishes the grain pudding called kutiya from ancient Greek pukia, or boiled grain. It's maked with wheatberries, poppy seeds, honey, nuts, and spices,
and I give the recipe. Grain symbolizes eternal life and rebirth. Poppy seeds are for fertility, the honey is for pleasure. The dish is shared with the livestock and poultry as well as the humans of the family for luck. The stickier the dish, the better, because the head of the family takes a spoonful and tosses it up. The number of grains of porridge that stick to the ceiling tells how many sheaves of grain will be collected that year. But I mean every culture does it, you know, differently.
But what I do every year, and I'm an American, but I was born in Austria. But what I do every year is I make acorn cake. That's my big thing and people love it, they absolutely love it. But I collect the acorns in the fall. I process them. It takes about two weeks. They have to be leeched and the water is changed every day, and then I grind up the acorns. I put them in the oven, dry the gruel, the ground up acorns, and then I make them into flour.
You cut them, you grind them down to powder.
Right when I'm getting ready to make the cake. Then I grind it into powder. Before that, it's just a dry grule that I keep in the refrigerator. But the cake has lots of honey, which is very solar, you know, and good good luck. Also it has lots of eggs, which are again yellow and fertility right.
And I do that.
Every year and people absolutely love it. They just think it's the best thing ever. I think there's a recipe in here.
For that acorn cake. Wow, I don't know. Can you buy acorn flour if you're not one two?
Yes you can. Actually I've never bought it myself, but I understand that you can, apparently in Korean restaurants and then probably on Amazon.
I would think, oh, Amazon has everything you're in.
And you can also find acorn cake recipes online. Acorn cake, acorn cookies, acorn pancakes, you know. But that's the I always make acorn cake at Christmas.
Sounds amazing. I expect to slice. At some point I want to talk about the rights for the goddess, describing the goddess in what this is, Why this is important because we've lost the understanding of God goddess, you know, because the Church doesn't recognize that anymore. But talk about the importance of that.
Well, I want to say that I have I think seventeen books in print right now, but this one, The Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas, is the third book in a series. The first one was Sacred Herbs of Salon, which is Halloween, the second one is Sacred Herbs of Spring, and then Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas. In each of those books, I have a ritual for a goddess. Okay, so in the Halloween book it's a ritual for the Morigon,
who's a triple goddess Celtic Irish triple goddess. Sacred Herbs of Spring, there's a ritual for the goddess Flora, who's the Roman goddess of flowers. And then in Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas, I have a ritual for the Callach, who is the goddess of Winter in Scottish tradition, she's the goddess of winter. In Irish tradition, she's the land goddess. So there are colliachs from different areas and they all have different properties. But for me, she's the goddess of winter.
I do have Scottish ancestry. But the way you know that she has arrived is when the first snowfall comes. And we've already had our first snowfall. But when that happens, that means she's here. And so I wanted to honor
her at yule Tide. And the only creation story that we have from Celtic tradition is about the Calliach, and the story is and she's the old woman or the old veiled one she's called, and the story is that she was walking through the water on the west coast of Scotland dropping stones from her apron, which is a polite way of saying dropping stones out of her vagina, and everywhere they fell an island formed. So she's literally creating the land as she walks. I mean, wow, big figure, you know.
So she's a creator, She's a creator god exactly.
And that's the only creation myth that we have.
From Celtic tradition, and So how how do we honor her ah at the first snowfall?
Well, you give thanks.
That's so.
The most important word is in any culture is thank you. But you can do a whole ritual. You could do it at solstice, you could do it at Yule, you could do it when the first snow falls. So I have first you create the altar. Cover the altar with a faded tartan cloth or thick wool, because that evokes winter.
Right.
Put objects that speak of the winter season, rocks, crystals, anything that reminds you of frost and snow, evergreen boughs, magical herbs of winter, and so on. And then you welcome in the goddess. And then I have a I just get I say. Your opening might look something like this. We are here to honor the gods and pay homage to the great Goddess of Winter. A kayak, the veiled one who haunts the frozen ground and frost rimmed branches.
Her breath is the winter wind, her tears are the sleet, Her skin is the snowbound field, Great Hag of the gusty white rivers and fields. We honor you and welcome you. All nature pauses under your gaze, thank you for this time of rest and purification, and then you burn herbs. Now, in Native American tradition you burn sage, for example, or cedar to purify an area. But in Northern Europe, the traditional herb was juniper.
Oh I like that smell. Yeah, dried juniper.
Yeah. If you can get juniper, that's the European herb of choice. If you don't want to be breathing smoke, if you have lung issues, you can get the oil juniper oil, and you could put it with water and spray it around the room instead of the smoke. Then you have some kind of a fire. So if you're outside, it's going to be a bonfire. If you're inside, it's going to be candles, you know, in a cauldron for example. Okay, I don't know how much you want me to go through this, but.
I want you to go through it somewhat thoroughly, because my next question would be what do we obtain by by acknowledging this winter goddess.
Well, just like with a solstice ritual where you start in the dark and then you light candles and you bring back the light, you're honoring nature. Nature at this time it's cold, it's snowy, it's dark. She is the goddess of winter, you know, and she transforms into bridget or bride in the spring, So that's the spring face of the goddess. Right now, we're honoring the winter face of the goddess.
So it's life sustaining patronage.
Yeah. The death is just an illusion. Nothing dies, you know. It looks like nature is dead because all these bare branches, you know, but it's not dead, you know. And that's why we have partly why we have evergreens, that's a whole other story. That's why you have evergreens on the altar. But there's a sacredness to this time, just like there's a sacredness in the spring, and sacredness in the summer, and sacredness in the fall. Each season has its particular
sacred aspect, you know. And it's also the old woman. This is something our culture has forgotten, you know. In ancient times, people who were old were valued because they knew how to survive, and they had been through many winters, and they knew how to heal the sick, and they knew how to take care of the animals and how to take care of the people, and you know, so they were valued. So you're also honoring that. You're honoring the gray hairs, you know, the old ones.
Fascinating. As we conclude, Ellen, I want you to talk briefly about the importance of altars and in our modern society, with the internet, with our iPhones, with all this Wi Fi bombarding us, why is this ancient practice important to have.
Yeah, well, I don't have a smartphone. I refuse to have one. I do have a computer obviously, but I always tell people turn off the phone, turn it off, you know. But like I said, each season has a
sacred aspect. So this season we're honoring what's happening. What's happening the dark, crystal ice, snow, you know, anything that makes you think of that, evergreens that goes on the altar, candles for light, for candle, magic, for purification, that all goes on the altar, everything that goes along, you know, holly berries, laurel as I mentioned, whatever you think of that seasonal you could have little images of stags and
you know, winter things. Okay, that's your altar, and that puts you in harmony with what's going on with nature.
H oh I hear you, okay, don't forget.
Nature, right. And then in the spring, the altar changes, the color of the candles changes. It might change to something softer like like pink or something. You put fresh flowers on the altar, things that remind you of spring, eggs,
little images of rabbits or whatever, you know. And the and the spring goddess Flora, the goddess of flowers, and who's very misunderstood, as the ancients said, and I quote in my in my book The Sacred Herbs of Spring, they said, Flora is a very powerful goddess because if you don't have flowers, you're not going to have fruit, and you're not going to have wine. Right, You're not to have any of these things. So big, you know, you have to give thanks for the flowers. So it's
a really big deal. So that's what you focus on in spring. And then in summer. Summer is when you actually have the first harvest, which is the harvest of herbs, so you might have herbs, dried herbs, fresh herbs, you know, a flowers also. And then in the fall, of course, is when we that's the end of the harvest and we start having the pumpkins the gourds, the grain, the apples,
you know, and it just shifts. But everything that goes on the altar, and you always have candles because candles energize, you know, they bring it to life. But you're always you're always putting yourself in harmony with nature, is what you're doing.
So you're tying your physical, mental, and spiritual self to nature by these divination items and also this altar, which is a representation of what you and what you're connecting to.
Yeah, and you're saying that you're a part of it. You know, people I keep hearing about how people feel so lonely and they feel so cut off and isolated, and why why do they feel isolated when there's life is happening all around you. You know, there's animals, there's trees, there's plants, there's water, there's fire there.
They forgot that if they're part of the earth, is what you're saying.
Right, Yeah, I mean when I'm in all I have to do is look out the window. But I live in the country and I'm very grateful for that. But all I have to do is step out the door, and I'm at one with all of it, you know, And I never feel lonely. You know, all through COVID I was by myself here. I never felt lonely, never felt isolated. I went outside every day, made a point of doing that. The time when I feel cut off is when I go into the city and I'm surrounded
by people and cement buildings and asphalt. Then I feel cut.
Off real briefly. For those who are just coming up to speed with an altar, this can be a small table placed in would you say, a room that you're active in, or a room that you're inactive in.
It could be anywhere. I have one in the bedroom that I look at, you know, when I wake up, when I go to sleep, I have a goddess alter. I have another one in the living room. I have one outside. Because you have to put food out for the fairies.
Don't forget, oh the fairies. Yea, yeah, on all the.
Holy days, make sure you put something out for them, because if you don't, they really act up. They start stealing things and messing around.
So and it can also.
Be directly on the ground. And if you look at the Mexican tradition, for example, the friend does around Halloween theos the old friends can be outside It could be on the ground, could be on a table, or it can be several layers. One layer on the ground, the next layer on a table.
Did really Yeah? Okay? Yeah.
They build altars outside or you can build altars inside, whatever you want.
Okay. But the point you're making in this part of the book on alters is the fact that this is your acknowledgment that you are part of nature, that you're part of earth, and that you are wishing to connect by these divination and these intentional tools that you're using at your altar.
Now you're just you're putting yourself in harmony. You're not going against life or against the the planet or against nature. You know, you're not pitting yourself. You know, it's the Victorians who told us that nature was what is it read in Tooth and Claw or whatever. It's not like that. Even guerrillas are sweet creatures there. You know nature. We are a part of nature. We need to get back to that.
The books called The Sacred Orth of Yule and Christmas Remedies, Recipes, Magic and Bruise for the winter season. My guest today has been Ellen Hopman, and this is a fabulous book. It came out last year late last year actually, and uh, it is one that you need to have on your bookshelf. Uh. And she has put her heart and soul into this book. I had to tell you. The recipes alone are are fabulous. Ellen. Tell people how they can get ahold of you through your website.
Yeah, if you if you want to communicate with me, the best way is to go to Ellenevertt Hoptman dot com. That's e L L E N E V E R T h O P M A N dot com. I also have an author page on Amazon. So if you put in Ellen Evertt Hopman author, or if you just google Ellen Hotman or google Ellen Evertt Hopman, all these things should come up. But Ellen Everett Hopman dot com you'll see all my books, and you'll see talks that I've given events coming up, and you can ask me a question if you want.
To do you do a video? Are you on YouTube presenting how to cook or how to do divination? Anything like that?
Well, I have just been convinced that I need a YouTube channel. I've never had one, so I'm going to be uploading a lot of my talks. But that's going to be in the new year.
I'm on the same. I need to get my video up and running a little more thoroughly. Ellen, Happy holiday, Merry Christmas, and thank you for your time. This is been fun and there's so much more we could talk about. Like I said, every chapter is could be a podcast. So thank you for your time.
Well, thank you, and Merry Christmas, Marl and Solstice and everything.
At the mule all right, thank you and we'll get you back again. Thanks. I was feeling depressed regarding the yule log because there's so much energy around that. But a lot of us don't have fireplaces. I don't, and so the log the mule light is a great idea. And you know, I'm gonna go out and get a candle that will burn for a day. That's my divination that I'll that I'll do. And that's easy for you too, if you don't have a fireplace or a place to
get a yule log, perhaps your fireplaces for decoration. Only a lot of people do that. So that was that was you know, important to hear all about our ancestors and how connected they are to the earth. You know, we've talked to people who are experts on nature, spirits and fairies and the elementals and how important they are. We didn't get into a whole chapter she had on those,
you know. I mean, her book The Sacred Herbs of Yule and Christmas is just so packed with material and it's really it's really just a really really good reference for Christmas. So anyhow, I hope you enjoyed that. By the way, if you are wondering what to do next year in spring, you want to go away for a vacation, we have one spot left on our Rapnui tour. It's March fifty to the twenty third. We all meet in Santiago, Chili, and we have a meal together, kind of go over inventory.
Then the next morning, on the the fifteenth, we fly. I think it takes about four hours to get to Raphanui, which is otherwise known as Easter Island, for a guided tour with doctor Edward Barnhardt. This is a very rare opportunity. He has gotten so popular we'll probably won't be able to work with him anymore because he's gonna be working
with others. But if you are a fan of as like i am, he has surveyed the island and he will take us to parts of the of the terrain that no people most people don't get a chance to see. This includes the quarries where these Moi sculptures are cut out of. It includes a number of areas where there's grave sites as well as some unusual sculpture. So for more information go to Earthancients dot com, forward slash tours. All the details are there. If you have any questions whatsoever,
send me an email. Send it to Earth Ancients the number four of the letter you at Gmail, and I promise they'll get right back to you. This is not to be missed. It's a rare opportunity. I've gotten a number of people will say, hey, Cliff, I can't go this year. We're not going to go back. I think this is the one and only chance we'll go to Rappahannui. There's always an opportunity to go with somebody else, but you want somebody who has an idea of the history
of the of the sacredness of this place. So anyhow, more information Earth Ancients dot com, Forward slash tours. All right, that's it for this program. I want to think my guest today, Ellen Hopman, coming to us from Massachusetts. As always, the team of Gail Tour Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. Merry Christmas, all right, take care of be well, and we will talk to you next time.
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