Dr. John Brandenburg: Confessions of a NASA Space Scientist

I can look out my window and see the Pyramids from my room here in Cairo, Egypt. We're at the end of the tour. Had a great time, but I want to tell you about today's program, Confessions of a NASA Space Scientist with doctor John Brandenburg. It is an eye opener from start to finish. It is a history of NASA's treatment of young and upcoming space scientists, propulsion and rocket scientists. It is a story that had to be told. It is a open and frank discussion on just how we are receiving

the data on planet Mars and the UFO UAP phenomenon. And it is a shocker. It's a shocker. It's a shocker. I can really tell you that our program today is extended. It is a unique program in that our guest John Brandenburg tells it like it is from a young scientist all the way to working on various projects and his understanding of why we are not told about the civilization that he has confirmed on the planet Mars. This is our program today. It is an eye opener and it is a good one for Earth

Ancients. All this and our science editor Bruce Fenton on Earth Ancients for Saturday May twentieth, twenty twenty three. This is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, hi hi, hi, hi hi. This is Cliff coming to you from Cairo, Egypt. Evening. We are at the end of our tour and I wanted to complete the final portions of the special program with my friend doctor John Brandenburg. This is a unique program on many levels, and I will just basically say that it is an eye opener.

It is his complete openness to the rules and regulations of NASA, US Space Command and the universities and colleges who deal with NASA and provide them with scientists. This program is called Confession of a NASA Space Scientists, and you will quickly learn why. John basically spills the beings on his education, the influence of NASA and Space Command or the Department of Defense on university students who want to pursue a science degree planetary science, plasma physics, anything to do

with space. They are overseers from these departments and it is critical that you comply to their wants and desires to become part of their organizations. I have not been able to get a hold of John for almost three years. We have cross passed. He went dark for a while working on different programs. He's a consultant for NASA well here shortly. Also, the problems he's had

with COVID almost killed him. We're going to learn about that. But today's program is unique, and I've been wanting to have John on the program on a regular basis. We are going to learn from John just how space scientists are trained by the universities, the areas of UFOs, these alien driven vehicles, planetary evidence of archaeology, and how it is squelched at a very young

age from the minds of up and coming scientists. And John spills the beings in very very prolific ways and gives us the insight as to why more evidence, more data is not released to the general public, and the problems associated with this and what is happening now with NASA and with the Space Command have been frustrated for a number of years. As you probably know, in the fact that I knew and I have learned through scientists that in the late nineteen

eighties evidence of a long dead civilization on Mars was discovered. The evidence was revealed to a handful of scientists, a decision was made by NASA to keep this underwrapped and to not disclose this information. We would later learn that NASA, although a bright and substantial organization, was adherent to a document that they

requisitioned in nineteen sixty called the Brookings Institute Document on Space Exploration. And in that document we learned that the Institute felt that United States citizens were not ready psycho logically, religiously, and morally to handle any evidence of a first contact

or evidence of alien interactions on any scale. And in that case, and because of that that document, we learned that NASA decided to not disclose the discovery of a civilization on the planet Mars, as well as evidence of the

craft that were surveying studying Earth lanes from other planetary systems. Now, what makes today's program unique not only is the fact that we get a sense of the education and the indoctrination of scientists in the United States and in Western culture, but we also learned that the SETI program search for Extraterrestrial intelligence is a flat out joke. The multimillions of dollars that was placed on SETTI was a

failed project. They do not want the scientists to find any evidence and when it is found, it is immediately squelched, it is immediately placed in the top secret files, and we the public never get to see the light of any of this data or information that is discovered in any form of program that allows us to understand that we are not the only one in the universe.

So we are going to learn today in this extended program from a NASA Space scientist, exactly why the evidence is not allowed to be released, why we are lied to, why we are not being provided with new data, And as I've said many many times, this data helps us evolve as a civilization when we learn we are not the only ones in our cosmos or the universe that there are, that there are other civilized planets that are trying to contact

us, and this has kept from us wed evolve. We do not evolve as a civilization because as soon as we learn that we are not the only ones, that we are part of a collective of beings in our cosmos, then we evolve. Then we begin to have a universal consciousness that we can begin working with. And what a wonderful opportunity if we were able to contact other beings and learn just what our places in the civil in the cosmos and how we fit in and perhaps our ancestors. You know, it might be

great to know what the earlier epics were. We've had people on the program talking about various Earth changes where early epics were destroyed, and perhaps those epics those civilizations were in contact with off world beings. I am very much of the belief that this is what happened. When you read the Mahabarata, the ancient Hindu story of the Great War for Earth. There were other civilizations that were part of this. My work with the Maya highlights the fact that the

Maya were in contact with other civilizations and were exchanging information. And this is why I believe that the Maya were probably one of the most sophisticated societies on the planet during their height, during their great periods of civilization. So our program today is with doctor John Brandenburgh, and this is a fun interview I did a few weeks ago. But before we had John come on, I

want you to hear from our science editor, that's Bruce Fenton. Bruce and I had a conversation a couple of weeks ago, and this is what his ideas were. His thoughts were on the NASA's reluctance to reveal data on off world types. It's always going to speak to Bruce Fenton. Bruce's our science editor. We haven't talked to him in a while, and I'm curious about his take on why the lack of disclosure on Mars. Now it seems like

every week I get new data. There's new postings of what looks like not only civilized ruins, buildings, structures, but more and more evidence of these monstrous reliefs. These are sculptural reliefs that have a single purpose to be seen at great distances. In many cases they can be seen from outer space as you enter Mars orbit or Mars atmosphere, which is quite interesting. So hey, Bruce, how are you good to hear from you? Yeah, I'm

pretty well. Yeah, looking forward to a summer of more and more alien talk. Seems to be building up in the news. Very interesting. So yeah, it's interesting times excellent. Today's program is with doctor John Brandenburg and it's Confessions of a NASA scientist. But I'm curious your take on the I mean, we both know av Lobe is really the proponent of space probes to Earth, and he continues to be funded privately by a number of benefactors and

donors who are supporting his research around the planet. But what is the lack of evidence based on or not lack of evidence, lack of recept lack of disclosure by NASA in the face of great evidence of and I want to be specific on this, ruins on the planet Mars. What are you what's you're feeling on that? Yeah, I mean I'm pondering this because just recently, of course, we've had some more you know, astonishing images from Mars.

You know, these looked rather like very regularly spaced proturbancies from a long serpent like rock, you know, And obviously there was a couple of scientists saying, you know, this is the most amazing imagery they've seen, and you know, very strange looking stuff on top of of course, years and years

of other anomalous looking imagery, you know, returning from Mars. But we can sort of trace a way back to course the face on Mars, and you and I read The Mars Mystery when I was younger, you know, Graham Hancock's book, and you know, even back then, of course, I think there was an opportunity for the mainstream and NASA to start saying, well, let's at least look at some of these nominalies, let's do some tentative you know, arqueology, even if they said, we don't think this

is alien, but to have targeted some of these sites, and as you know, they basically didn't. So there seemed to have been a decision made at some point that they weren't even willing to go as far as humoring the idea that this might be, you know, a Martian civilization. And I think it's a big question about then, So why, because that could have been a moment where they would have got the interest of the whole planet behind them. You know, I imagine more funding, certainly a huge upswell of

public interest in space Mars. So so when you think of it like that,

it's kind of crazy. So the more I've looked at it, I've come to sort understand that you almost have to go back to the Viking land emissions when they sent these detectors, you know, as an afterthought, they sent detectors for life on Mars, you know, and the main project was all geological, but they just as a as an aside, you know, they said, okay, well, you know, will include some of these life detection kits, and of course what actually happened was these kids detected life.

Like I think it was like five a six experiments showed life and one experiment we now know was basically flawed, so it probably did show life. And you'd think that would be amazing, right, and everyone be excited. But a few months ago I was reading an account of one of these guys who saw the notes from that mission, and he said, instead of seeing

a sense of excitement, there was a sense of fear. And you think about it, there was a sense of fear that they had found life and that they were going to have to announce that marginal life was real, that there was you know, organic traces in the soil. And he said, you start to think, like, how does this make sense. These people should have been over the moon saying, you know, we've detected life, and instead, he said, there was a sense of relief when one of

the tests failed. And I thought, that's kind of let that sink in. That's so strange. So I think there is a culture of fear in that whole kind of space science field, a strange culture of fear that you

not supposed to detect life. And I could take that everything, because that I find that quite staggering, because we're all thinking how exciting it would be, you know, to be the person or the team perhaps that saw you know, a Martian temple or or detected at a living creature or even the right how exciting that would be. The idea that some of these teams are actually scared to find life there. I mean, that's really makes you rethink

what's happening and why that culture exists. So what do you what do you suspect on that, Bruce when you say there's a general sense of fear of discovering alien life on Mars, or for that matter, any planet. I would be excited. And I think generally if you look at it, if you do a survey of the general public, I would see overall the vast majority of people would welcome it absolutely. So what would be the purpose of

causing and creating a sense of fear around the discovery? Right? I think somewhere in the hierarchy that there has to have been some kind of almost formal or informal decision made that already that's prejudging that there isn't life there, and that if you are to go against that that your career is going to be in trouble in the same way that we've seen a bit with UFOs and other

topics. I think somewhere in that hierarchy at NASA and in the science community, the view that it's filtering down is there isn't life and that you know, we're just doing this to go through the motions, you know, to explore the science of geology. And I think that they've been given the impression that they're not that, you know, it's almost ridiculous. The idea that

there's alien life out there is ridiculus. I can't think for a better reason why that that's their fear, because you'd think they'd be so excited with the

possibility. So this must be coming from higher up in these organizations, a sense of you know, it would be ridiculous for one of you to come here and tell me that you think you found life, that there's something you know like that, where they have been given, in no uncertain terms, a sense of their rear will be in flames if they start saying that they think they found life, because there's no other real sense to this, because

it just seems like they know the whole world would be excited. They know that it would be amazing to be the person who did that. So the idea these people are so scared of even you know, sending a probe to some of these areas on Mars where they've already seen you know, rectangular shapes or pyramid like structures or you know, now be could he these regular spikes

coming out of a rock. You know, it's got to a point of absurdity where any normal person would be targeting these sites or you know, putting down drones, putting down the you know, the the probes. It has become, I thin, quite absurd because anyone else running this space program with an objective interest in finding life, you'd be targeting all of those sites and instead of asking to go to barren waste lands where there is nothing of interest.

So that can you imagine the social media that would be behind that. It's like, hey, we're going to check this out. We're sitting a satellite to this part of Mars. What do you think you know, they would have a huge buy in, absolutely buy in. So I don't think this is naturally coming from the scientists at lower levels. That's what I mean. I think that they would be excited to do this, but there is something that we're not aware of that's probably been made very clear at higher levels

that this is just you know, there's no life on Mars. Don't come to me with any stupid stories of that, you know, go out and do your geology work, because they've never even sent back another one of these test kits too Mars to confirm the life signatures you know from all those years ago in the Viking Landers. I mean, that's what the seventies. I mean. So there's something is not working right at NASA. I think that you have to say somebody are in that hierarchy. There's people they're saying,

no, that's absurd, You're not going to be doing that. That's the end way I can interpret it. I like that. I want to just get your take on this Brooking Institute document because I keep I promly believe as out of control is it as it would be. This document basically was requisitioned by NASA in nineteen sixty and the Brookies came back and said first contact would cause such an uproar that people would commit suicide, that society would would grandual

halt. Religious religious would be called into questions and all this other malarkey that is now over sixty years old. But there's something about that document that holds I believe NASA Space Command, the d D, perhaps European space agencies in check from releasing any information. What do you say to that? Yeah, I think that it could be potentially that they see detection of life on Mars, or even detection of archeological struct on Mars, would be a kind of

de facto confirmation of other claims about alien existence. You know that if there's evidence of life on Mars, especially civilization, then all those past stories of alien contacts on Earth and people seeing ships and all of that is going to suddenly get massive credibility because it'd be like, well, there is you know, there has been aliens in our solar system? Could there still be?

So I suspect it may be something like that. They don't want to unlock that other door, which would have more profound society changing implications, So they're perhaps worried that even a detection on Mars could strengthen massively all these other claims that they've been denying for years, and so they're gonna end up looking perhaps with a lot of egg on their face that, well, if there was a civilizing for Mars, why shouldn't there be technologies in our solar system?

So yeah, I suspect it may well be relating to that idea. They don't want to open that door even a crack, because everything else is going to come through. You know. It's funny, is and I talk about this. I think that when the revelation is made, and it won't perhaps it won't be anytime soon, but heads will roll at NASA, because we, the Americans, fun NASA to the tune of many billions of dollars every

year. And if it was discovered that the rover looking for biological evidence of ancient microbes was a waste of two point five billion dollars, and in the few miles away were temples of a of a lost, long dead civilization, that would be a serious breach of of of character, I would think, and professional protocol. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine all these people probably

want to position themselves out of their jobs before that happens. I think, now what's coming, You know that they may want to retire before that gets green light on, you know, confirmation. I don't know, it's it's a it's an interesting question. So hey, Bruce, good talking to you and we'll have you back real soon. Bulliaan take app. Thank you,

Thanks very much, fun speaking with Bruce. All Right, So today's program is Confessions of a NASA Space scientists, and my guess is doctor John Brandenburg. Each year Earth Ancients heads to Mexico for a private tour of some of the most intriguing ruins from the Maya and other meso American cultures. This year, November tenth through the seventeenth, we'll be heading to Vera Hormosa in southern

Mexico to see the site of the omec ruins at Lavina. This includes a visit to the world famous outdoor museum where there are megalists of all sizes and shapes. We then head to Palak in Chiapas and visit this jewel of the Maya Empire with doctor Edwin Barnhart as our host. We'll be there for two days, and then we head out to Bottom Peck, site of one of

the largest murals left to us from the Maya Classic period. For more information and details on this tour, go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tours and we'll see the entire itinerary and more details. This is a one of a kind tour with doctor ed Barnhart and Yours Truly For more information, Earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tours. Always great to have doctor John Brandenburg on the program. It's been and I was just talking to John off before we

started. It's been a couple of years since we've we've talked to him, and this program is his revelations on the work he did as a plasm physicist understanding what happened on Mars tens of thousands of or excuse me, tens of millions of years ago. Yes, we're gonna go through that, but we're also going to get some sense of what he's been up to, the revelations the research that has been done since his book came out, Death on Mars.

And by the way, if you haven't, if you don't have that book, you got to get it because it's a real eye opener from a scientist. This is not somebody who's guessing on what's in the Mars atmosphere. This is somebody who analyzed it and actually came back with some very very important information that is featured prominently in that book, Death on Mars. So hey John, great to see you. Thanks beyond your show. Always a pleasure to have you. Let's start off real quickly and say, I haven't seen

you for a couple of years. You had about of COVID, didn't you. Well, yeah, I ended up in the hospital. Yeah, your your illness was to the point where it wasn't a simple flu bug. You got laid up pretty good. No, I was, Yeah, it was. It was a near run thing. The grace of God, though, I survived and wasn't permanently impaired or anything like that. Yeah. Heple were concerned about that. But you know, you've got to clean. By the grace of God, the prayers of my family and friends and help, I've

just been fine. Okay. Oh people died, People younger and healthier than me died, and you know, yeah I met one of them who died later, and yeah he was smart, healthy, you know, semi athletic guy, married a beautiful wife and boom, end up in the hospital and it never came out. You look good. You pulled through, which is which is important. Hey, I'm turning the big seven oh this Friday. Oh hey, congratulations, you look good. Thank you, John. I

want to drill down a little bit. It's been Like I said, it's been a few years since we had you in the program, and you have done some very important work. We're gonna talk about your work on Rocket Engine, but we're also going to talk a little bit about some of the pass work. I had a chance to review Death on Mars, and I have some questions that come up when you were working with the collective that Hogan, Richard Hoglan put together. This is years ago, but there's a lot that's

come out since. The reason I wanted to bring you back, John, not only are you great to talk with, but the questions that keep coming up is in the face of the great evidence of archaeological ruins, yes, your discovery of this Zone one twenty nine, and the continual photo evidence of what appeared to be these monstrosities of graphic reliefs or card reliefs runs in the face of looking for microbes. It just is such a problem for me.

Well, what a what do we consider this? You know you have friends in these places, and I know you didn't send an NDA, so you can't talk a little bit about it. But what's that? What's going on? What the hell is going on? That we have this huge body of evidence from many scientists, and yet NASA doesn't seem to be able to let the ket out of the back and go, look we have found I mean, what wouldn't it be easy for them to say, hey, we found

archaeological ruins. We think there's evidence of ancient life. Yeah. Oh, they found abundant evidence of ancient life. In fact, even present life on Mars, a very residual biosphere, and so they But you must understand that some organizations, let's talk apple carts here, got a big apple cart here going. You know, it's the worldview of the human race, and a

lot of it's I'm sorry, I'm religious myself. I'm an Biscopalian, but there are a lot of people who get very upset when we start talking about life on the planet because I think that this contradicts the Bible. It doesn't. And I actually wrote a book on that called Cosmic Jesus. And so, but you've got this big cultural apple cart, and people, especially in academia, are reluctant to upset apple carts. They want to count the apples.

They want to count the red apples and the green apples of the yellow apples on the cart sort the cry of apples from the regular apples. But if you go talking about there's life past life, humanoid life on Mars, that is such a paradigm shattering idea even for people in the sciences. Now an example, we had the a l H eighty four or one very ancient meteorite from Mars, and they found signs of microfossils in it and signs of

past chemical biological activity. I reviewed the evidence, I'd look quite convincing to me. But academia and this was put forth by the people at Manned Space Flight Center, you know, Johnson Space Sight Flight Center in Houston. That lab was connected to them, and I would go to conferences that i'd see

this. One guy, Dave McKay was leader of that team that found this, and I watched him just get pummeled unfairly by people from the audience, a bunch of other bunch of college professors basically, and a coffee I talked with him and he says, I understand, you know, some of their criticisms of our work. What I don't understand is why they're so angry. So what were they What was the premise was he saying that there's uh microbes from Mars. Microbes might landed on Earth. No, he just said there

was microbes on early Mars. And the evidence on Earth is that they start finding bacterial traces of bacterial fossils in Mars and Earth rocks that are very, very ancient, so that just about the time we had a liquid ocean, we had life in it. And that was like two hundred million years after the assembly of the Earth and I got started getting a liquid ocean, and you find life signs in the rock, that means life began very early.

And they found the same thing on Mars. They found evidence this this you know, this Mars rock very old. It's almost four and a half billion years old, about the same age as the Earth, and it had microbial fossils in it. And what that means is that life just on the face of it. It means that life begins as soon as there's a life supporting environment on the planet like Earth or Mars. Early Mars was early Mars and early Earth were almost identical places. And this means once you find life on

Mars, you find life in the stars. Because there's nothing about the Earth or Mars that looks terribly exceptional in the cosmos. We're finding planets just about every star you see at night as planets are in it. That's what they're finding. And some of those planets are just in what's called the life zone where you have liquid water like on Earth and Um and their small rocky planets

like Earth. And this means there's that when you look out at the night sky, some of those stars are looking people on those stars are looking back. Sure wave, you know the way back, you know. And this is so such a dramatic, unsettling thing. It's it's just like the Copernican Revolution. Worthy. Copernicus said that Earth was not the geometric center of the

universe, and he knew this would make the church mad. Worked for the Catholic Church, so he made sure the book was published after he was dead. It was the first shovel of dirt hit his coffin. They released the book. They couldn't get him. And so the powers that be like the idea that Earth was the center of the universe, and they were the powers that be who ran it. Anything else was a demotion. Now the same thing is happening now, only we imagine that we're the center of the biological

universe, and we're about to find out. No, we're not. Okay, it doesn't have a center, just like it doesn't have a geometric center. It doesn't have a biological We're not the masters of the only oasis in the whole universe. Yeah, it sounds to me like this Brooking Institute document that came about in nineteen sixty is still very prevalent in the scientific community.

Yes, it is an unspoken policy, kind of a conspiracy of silence that if you want to do business with DASA and get grants and things like this, which is essential to any body pursuing an academic career, it's not a good enough thing that you're a good profess, sir. You've got to get grants. You got to get publications, and that requires grants to support your research. And you have to get citations. Other people who see something benefit

citing you. And you can't play that game unless you play ball with NASSA. And the unspoken rule at NASSA is you're supposed to look for signs of extra treasurer life but not find any. Oh God, I know you've said that to me before, but that is they ultimately to ask backwards well, welcome to the human race. The human race does this all the time, you know. Yeah, there's the forbidden question. Why doesn't the Emperor have

any clothes? You know? Hush, you know, and and so the the Brookings Institution report warned that finding extraterrestrial life, especially intelligent life, could have a devastating effect on our culture. And it was in the middle of Cold War. They were very when you're in a Cold war, you want to manage public, the public mindset as much as you can. Yeah, they didn't want it. They didn't want to upset the public. They wanted

you just they didn't want to upset any big Apple carts. You're laying you're laying the back Yeah, you're laying the backdrop to a lot of this discussion we're having today as well as you can also can use that consideration for the UAP studies that are going on. There is just a report today that UAPs what are those? Yeah, UFOs are up. Yeah, they rebranded the whole thing, which is crazy. Really, let's go back a little bit, John, give us um you know, and I didn't ask this,

Uh, what's your background education wise? You're well, I was trained as a physicist, especially a plasma physicist, which is the physics of hot gas, and it's essential to understanding how we'll get control fusion. That was my major focus in graduate school and you know where, and they've made astonishing progress in platts physics since it turned out to be a lot harder than we thought. And it's because the plasmas are a hot gas that conducts electricity like metal.

They have a mind of their own. You have to figure out what they want to do and then kind of encourage them to do something as a compromise between what they want to do and what you want to do. You know, the Tokomac and everything like that. Those are all working very well. Now we're going to have control fusion here in the next ten years. But so that's my major thing. But also I decided to use plasmas for propulsion in space. So I became a space cadet um and I'm just to

gave me an example how valuable that was. Since I'd become a space cadet working on plasma propulsion for space, and I invented my own space plasma thruster called the met thruster that's flying now in space. Um. I did it because I got involved in Mars research and h and I not only looked on this as you know, okay, looks like there's a dead civilization on Mars. Why is it dead? That's one of the big questions. But the other thing is that means we'll have a big Mars mission to go investigate it.

And I want to be part of that. Yeah. So I wanted to be. I wanted to be become a space guy and so they so, so what happened when the Cold War ended? I mean, my whole career, the first part of my career was the Cold War, and then suddenly the Cold War ended, and it was it was a catastrophe because all these companies that have been set up for I guess yeah, they went bally up and a lot of the people had called me space cadet as derisively.

They said, Brandenburg, if you're really serious, you studying nuclear weapons effects? You know what happens when the nuclear weapon goes off and how does it change things? And uh, and I said, well, I'm I'm not interested in that stuff. I want to that's that's the fifties. I want to I want to go to the Mars, you know, want to be part of the Bars mission that's going to happen. They said, why do you think there's going to be a Mars mission? I said, oh,

I don't know. I have a suspicion there will be a Mars mission and so so, so what happened was I was able to just transition to a space job when a lot of my colleagues, who were very much earth bound defense skies, had to retire. Yeah, you know a lot of mur mer retirement anyway, and they just signed to flick it in after the Cold War ended. But I got to keep going. It was great. Yeah, And so it was so I can actually say that getting involved in Mars

is, rather than hurting my career, actually really helped it. Let's step back just just a second. I want you to talk a little bit about your work at Lawrence Livermore National Lab. That was the weapons lab. It's a nuclear weapons lab. Yet, yeah, so you spent weapons. So when you was signed, can you talk about what you were doing there? Oh? Oh, yes, I wasn't doing classified, heavily classified work at all. You were building weapons, though, weren't you? No, no,

no, no, I was. I was never directly involved in building nuclear weapons. I um, the code the computer programs, they call them codes for studying nuclear weapons. Uh, going off could also be used for laser fusion, and so I worked on laser fusion for a while. But my major focus of my education and my PhD work finally was on confinement of

plasmas and magnetic fields. It's interesting when we were at Livermore Labs, we were all part of a graduate school called tell Or Tech, and we were, you know, working on site learning all this fancy physics and stuff, and then then we would go to class at a little campus. They had a joining the lab, and it was part of the University of California, Davis. And every once in a while they would call us in kind of give us an official briefing from the lab. They said, well, you're

all good lab people right working at the lab. He said yes, yes, sir. And they'd say, we don't want any talk about UFOs. We don't want any talk about here is this They're saying that this was lack in nineteen seventy seven. Oh okay, this is a long time ago. That's so weird that they would say that. Oh well, they were especially they said, if anybody asked you if it's possible to have warp drive like on Star Trek, you know, traveling faster than light. You tell them,

no, it's against the law, the law of special relativity. And so that was and I remember talking without my fall students, what the hell, why are they telling us this. They didn't want want any discussion of UFOs or the possibility that might be extraterrestrial, which wouldn't been it meant they'd have to come from another star system that warp drive. They didn't want anybody talking about stuff like that. And you know, so I was basically told,

Um Brandenburg, do you believe in UFOs? And I say no, sir. So they would randomly kind of answer, please give me my to make sure you're giving my PhD so I can get out of here and get a real job. It was, you know, it was like that. I mean, they they so I was very naive and I tended to believe, uh, pretty much anything I was told. So you're talking about indoctrination. I was. I was hey, I was trying to I was trying to walk the walk and you know, be a good science, good young

scientist. So you think this happens with all scientists that have anything to do with NASA or space technology. Is that you're indoctrinated to not think about aliens, other worlds, or body of contact. Oh, he talked at universities. I there was the astronomy at one place I worked. I worked at the Florida Space Institute, and I was an associate you know, just an adjunct professor of University of Central Florida, and we'd hear all these stories.

Like in the astronomy department. The head of the department called all the people together and he basically he said, you junior faculty until you get tenure, we don't want to hear anything out of you, nothing, you know you In other words, so the process of academium that you have to work like seven years, work like a dog to get tenure, and then you're just an associate professor. If you want to be a full professor, you got to work three or four more years, and you got to toe the line

constantly. You know, people losing their chance at tenure because of you know something. And they said at a cocktail party that happens really, so oh yeah, they're policing the scientists that are working on projects. It sounds like it's all and it's by the way, it's always been that way at universities. So universities are not places where you actually have a lot of academic freedom.

Especially by the time you get survived to become a full professor. You're heavily invested in the system, and you don't say anything controversial, especially if it will offend the dean or the dean of the department or the head of the department something like that. Yeah, because they got to approve whether you get tenure or not, or become a full professor or something like that.

And so you're constantly tiptoeing through a minefield. And so when I arrived at Sandy Labs, I just thought, well, okay, there are no UFOs, there's no extraterrestrial life for it. And then and then I'm at this lab. And you've never gone through a nuclear crisis, nucletar, a crisis like in the Cold War Cuban missile crisis, until you've been at a nuclear weapons lab and go through it, because everybody knows what it looks like. What it looks like, yeah, and what and what this place is.

This place is going to turn into a lake of glass, and so has the surrounding ten miles and what's going to happen to you, your to you, what's going to happen to your family, your wife and kids, your dog cat? You know. UM. And when I was at when I was at Sandy Labs in nineteen eighty three, we went through um they discovered the nuclear winner. They actually discovered it because of a dust storm on Mars in nineteen seventy one, but they didn't talk about that at first because they

wanted to sound really solid. It was Carl Sagan, though, who was one of the leaders of that, and they found out, you know that if there was a nuclear war, the Earth would be put in a deep freeze for maybe a year afterwards, and more people would die of starvation and cold, and would die of the original blasts and fallout. And this news of this passed through the lab where I was working. And if we weren't working on nuclear weapons, we were working on electron beam weapons, you know,

corrected for energy weapons like laser beams. And it passed through the department. I was just caused despair. My office made said, you know, I used to think there was going to be a nuclear war. I was going to jump in my car in the parking lot, race home, get my wife and kids and take them to the hills where they'd be safe. And he says, now, I'm just going to go home to be with my family, and I'm going to get up on the rooftop of six pack

of beer watched the whole thing go. He says, wow. And I didn't know what to say because he was normally a very kind of happy, go lucky character, and I he said, this just utterly serious. And I said to him, what kind of beer would you be drinking, Malcolm? And he finally cracked a vile and laughed, you know, and I kind of, you know, I was trying to tell him, Malcolm, get a grip, you know. And I had actually myself decided I didn't

want to survive a nuclear war anyway. So yeah, you know, I'd go home with my be with my wife and kids, and I'd go outside on the back patio with a cup of coffee and watched the whole thing.

So you thought like that. And then right after the Nucular Winter thing came out, then there was the we had a big war exercise called Able Archer, and we came as close to a nuclear war as we did during the Human Messile crisis, and we weren't told what was going on, but we could see from the military movements because Sandy Labs was on a shared land with

a big Air Force base. There was all these military convoys. Everything was obviously the tension cut the tension with a knife, and we knew something was up. And they were testing everything to see if they could survive a nuclear

blast out on this one. Oh boysility, and they had tanks out there, they had trucks out there, they had armored personnel carriers you know, humbies, and you just by the pace of the testing, Oh my god, something is really turn It turns out we only found out later how close we were to a nuclear war because they held a big NASA, a NATO exercise in Europe and the Russians were, you know, an under siege because of Afghanistan and things like this, and the Russians convinced themselves as the trojan

horse, that we were going to attack them during the middle of this war exercise, so they put all of their nuclear forces everything on alert. All that would have taken was one strage yet fighter from NATO, and we would have had a full scale nuclear war. So you later found out I guess from defectors in Russia that this was going to happen or what. Well, it gradually kind of the rumor mill came out and that combined with the nuclear

winner, so that by that happened in November. By the time December came round, Christmas and we had a long vacation. They just shut down the lab for about two weeks between Christmas and New Year's and so I was home a lot, and we had a lot of time to think, and gosh, it just seemed so hopeless, and we just thought, oh my god, we could have a nuclear war by accident and everything is going to get blown up, and yeah, and what you know, by accident because of

a miscalculation. And then suddenly I saw this TV program and it showed the space on Mars and it showed two pictures of it that was like one nineteen after Viking, so like nineteen eighty maybe, and it was nineteen eighty four, okay, well actually was the day. It was the day after Christmas, Okay, in nineteen eighty three. And then by the time ninety eighty four rolled around, I tracked down the people who were doing the research and

they sent me literature that they produced. You're talking about de Petri and Molin to Petrol and they just superb work. These are these are those of you listening. These are two highly talented technicians, especial both engineers. They're both working engineers for NASA and okay on the computing scientists. The other one was an electrical engineer UM and they were both very good and they they wanted to

make a Mars program like the Apollo. To them, they wanted to return to the big old days of Apollo, you know, the moon the Moon race. So they thought finding this on and so their to their extreme surprise, they got in all his trouble for publicize. They found out that NASA had taken a second picture of the face and then hidden it. But it

was in the but it was in the data flies. So NASA knew right away when it was identified that this Sidonia region not only had this massive struck a sculptural relief of a face, yes, but it had this surrounding what Hoogland calls a city. Oh, there's there's a host of things around there. The most impressive thing is the big five sided pyramid, and it's only

like ten miles from the face. Yeah, and NASA even like the modern pictures, NASA's very careful not to take a picture of the face that shows also a pyramid in the same picture, right, But the Viking had captured both of them in two frames. In fact, they had three pictures of the pyramid, and it was it's a pyramid five sided. It's it looks like a pyramid on another planet. But it's not just a pyramid, John, It's a monstrosity of a pyramid. It's like it isn't it like a

five mile circumference or something huge. Yes, And it's about a kilometer or high, about half a mile high, which looks like a mountain. It looks like a mountain that they shaped removing soil and then facing it with brick. And we even found a place where there's almost a perfect square. On one side of it, here's this triangular phase like a pyramid. And then

in the middle of it it looks like a doorway. It actually no, it's a square area or the bricks have given way, you know, informed this square shaped place where all these bricks have turned loose and slid down the side of the pyramid because of erosion, and we've confirmed that now with several pictures or modern probes, and they have all these new pictures of the face. And Mark Carlatto just a brilliant computing scientist doing image processing, that's what

he did for a living PhD and image processing. He found out that when he looked at the Viking pictures that you could see what looked like ornaments on the forehead of this helmet the thing is wearing and those have been confirmed. You're talking about the helmet that the face is wearing. Yeah, it looks

like it's wearing. It looks like it's wearing a helmet. We actually got pictures from a Central America of the old mac heads and they're wearing helmets too, So it looks very much like something carved by the old max on Earth. And including having you know, a very right angle frame where here's the helmet and then it comes to you know, over your forehead is straight line and then it beats the straight lines coming up from the side where the sides

of the helmet. And so it's all been confirmed ornamental to you know, despite it's obviously eroded. Yeah, all archaeology, you look at look at pictures of the Spinx when it was first discovered or first started getting before they the Egyptian government fixed it up sort of terists will like it better, but it was really beat up when they first found it. Yeah, it was, I understand. Yeah, and it showed a lot of erosion and sort of the pyramids. The pyramids have got big chunks of the missing, you

know, the brickwork on the outside. Part of it was they people wanted the marble brick, so they stole it. And this is the Arab kingdoms that you know, almost a thousand years ago. The things are close to six thousand years old, and so in fact the spinx may even be older, maybe ten thousand years old exactly. Yeah. So it's a so we've found all this stuff on Mars now and I if I get I found my brag a little bit. By the grace of God, I found a second

site of Sidonian menses where the face on face and the pyramid are. I found a second site where there are two faces. Is this the Galactus Chaos area Galactus Chaos and it's funny, which is interesting. Well, yeah, and as and you've read the book, you know, you notice it wasn't named Galactus Chaos when I found the faces there. But then it got into NASA that I found these two new faces, and they they named it. It's like, you know, they named it galactus chaos, and well,

it sounds like somebody's galaxy was thrown into chaos. We're gonna take a short commercial break and we will be right back with my guests today, doctor John Brandenburg coming to us from Texas. We'll be right back. My guest today is doctor John Brandon Burke, who is a plasma physicist who has done a great deal of work for NASA and the Department of Defense. We are learning about NASA's treatment of young scientists and why they are not divulging evidence, great

evidence for archaeology of a ruined civilization on the planet Mars. John, were you ever reprimanded for you're writing this book? But not only that. I mean, you're a specialist in weapons, and we're going to talk about this explosion in a minute. But you told me you've never signed an NDA, which is nondisclosure agreement. Well, I was more exactly, I was never

read into any nuclear weapons programs. Okay, I had been. I you know, that's a different level of security and and so I would the reason a lot of people know I'm right but won't say it. It's like Wall Street. Those who no don't say, and those who say don't know. It's that they are bound still by security ost that they can't talk about nuclear weapons test data and things like this. And I could even find anything in

the open literature about results of nuclear tests like Xeno one twenty nine. I had to find out that the the explosion of a hydrogen bomb and the explosion of a supernova out in space have the same physics. It's called our process. And so I found about a lot of literature on our process in the open literature, because it's astrophysics, and you can look up on Wikipedia our process and it will say, well, the physics of a supernova and also

the physics of a nuclear weapon, same physics. A super hydrogen bomb is a little miniature supernova basically, and they produce that the r process as its signature produces a big spike in Xenon one twenty nine. Okay, now that is that is basically beyond argument. I want I want you to talk a little bit about this program. You were talking about, this show that you saw that revealed the phase, and we were like, wow, was it

kind of like could this be a phase? Or was it more like, this is new satellite imagery and we're seeing what appears to be the evidence of an advanced culture. But that would be pretty risky for them to say no, no, the petro role in ARM were quite careful in their statements, but they said it does look, you know, like archaeology. This looks like archaeology. They use that language in their paper. Oh yes, okay,

so they were at least it to other scientists. What was the reaction of the scientific community to Petri and Molnard's They actually got a quite enthusiastic response, a lot of interest. However, it's one thing for scientists to show up for your lecture and ask a lot of questions, and it's quite another for them to say what they really think in public. Because of the overpowering culture of NASA that says you're not supposed to talk about if you find it.

Says in the Brooking Institute that you might find artifacts produced by dead civilizations on the moon of Bars, don't talk about it. Could do great, I know it. It has. It's had a paralyzing effect on You can also say, let's say hypothetically there is a UFO cover up that the US government knows we're not alone in the universe, and that aliens are visiting this place, living aliens flying advanced spaceships. Then any discussion of that is forbidden

by the Defense Department. And if they find a dead civilization on Mars, you can consider the Mars is a sub chapter of the UFO cover up. I SOT, it's all the extraterrestural cover up. If they pick up signals from some you know, place nearby or something, you know, some galaxy you know, uh, they'll the the The government now has a whole department at the Pentagon that says, oh, that's one of ours sending encrypted messages. No, you can't understand it because it's it's been encrypted, and yeah,

you know, it's one of ours. And then they said, well, it doesn't move around like a satellite, it's just what from this one star And they said, oh, you haven't measured it, right, we know better? Yeah, so so and it's like and it's like, do you want any more money from us? Yeah? Exactly. You're making a very good point because finance is huge. When the scientific community, so they

control it. My money gets controlled by and that's going to shut a lot of mouse because no one has the millions and billions of dollars it takes to put together a science research program. It's it's just yeah. They when I

worked at the University of Central Florida. I they told me when I was at Livermore that academia was very cutthroat and to get funding for grants, you mean, oh, oh yeah, you will do You will kill somebody in the hallway of your department and to make sure you get your they're not competing with you for a grant, you know. And if the department head finds out that you actually knife this person in the hallway when nobody else was looking,

he'll approve. He said, well, you're the right kind of material. John, We wanted this department. Oh boy, I wanted to talk real briefly about you gotta have a sense of humor about this stuff. I know, I can imagine you've been living this for your your entire adult life. I want to talk real briefly about your work as an independent scientist and this collection of scientists headed up by Richard Hoagland, the independent Mars Research in

independent Mars investigation team. Yes, it was. How many scientists were I mean, these are all people that basically bought into this early Viking imagery. Yes, and there were no at that time. And we're going to talk about the analysis that you discovered in the atmosphere of Mars, But the collection of scientists that Hogland pulled together, what was the goal, what was the theme? What was the ultimate theme he wanted to get? You know,

he was a journalist himself. Guy's brilliant, but he's more of a journalist than a scientist, and he pulled together a bunch of scientists and engine nears to investigate this, and a lot of them felt the same way I did. They felt like, gosh, if we find a dead civilization on Mars, it might end help help end the Cold War before we blow ourselves up. Okay, So it was there was a lot of self interest involved in this. We wanted to end the Cold War somehow, and we thought this

would be a good way. I want to just mention that in your book, you talk about your challenge deciding to work with Homeland because you knew there were great risks, because you could lose the ability to be hired by NASA contractors or themselves. Oh yeah. I was very aware that a lot of people considered this not something that a serious scientists should be interested in. Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously the official line said, there's nothing

on Mars. Who are you going to believe us or your lying eyes? You know, and and we'll say, well I believe you, sir. Yeah. And the thing John now you're now you're talking. Yeah. And

so I considered that I might be risking my entire career. But I've just gone through this big Cold War scare, and I just my gosh, was married to this lovely woman and we just we had a young child's all grown up now has grandchildren, you know, two two beautiful daughters, and I just, you know, finally I kind of fell back on my religious faith. You know. It's like, what am I supposed to do? Why

am I here? Why am I here? And um So I after much thought and reflection and prayer, I decided, Okay, I'm going to be in on this because I want to help end the Cold War and I thought this would be a good way to do it. And so I did it. And rather than ending my career, as I mentioned, it turned me into a space cadet, which meant I actually and there's there was a sense, Okay, Brandenburg is doing kookie stuff, and people who didn't like me

used it against me. They say, Brandenbury talks to Martians. But most of the scientists I worked with, this one guy just looked at all the pictures, especially from Black's Chaos and and Sidonia, and he says it stops just short of being convincing. He says, you know, so he I

mean, what is he seeing? Scientists I worked with who knew me, knew I was, you know, a good scientist, respected what I had done, and um the so I, by the grace of God, my career was not destroyed, and I managed to gain credibility scientific I was scientifically credible enough that people said, well, Brandenberg, you know, it's it's unusual what he's talking about on Mars. But he's not a coup, he's not a nut. Well you're giving them scientific evidence, real, real quickly.

I I have not found any papers that the collective, the independent Mars research team put together, but I would think that Hogland may have submitted not only papers directly to mailand at NASA, but also to other mail talk. We'll talk about mailand in a minute. But wasn't there a couple of papers that you guys put together as a collector. Yeah, we went to a conference in Boulder called the Mars Underground. Basically, the kind of official line

in NASA was that we tested for life at Mars. We didn't find any, which turned out to not really be true. They so they a bunch of scientists though, were so intrigued by what they'd found on Viking that they started what was called the Mars Underground. It was a bunch of it was a bunch of university professors and they just wanted to talk about Mars science. And so we actually put in a paper to this conference in Boulder, Colorado, and went up and presented it. Now, if anybody has copies of

the actual original proceedings, there's our paper. Okay, and you remember what the paper was, John, what was the rough idea of the paper? The title was um Unusual Objects photographed on Mars, New thoughts about old data. And we we presented the fact that we found this other site that glass chaos and had another face, and we had the pyramid and the face and this was just mesmerizing to all these sciencests, and you know, so they they on one sense if if you ask them what do you think of this?

Or I said, well, I don't know, I don't know. But they're staring at it all. There's just staring at it. And but the uh, one of the things you got to understand that goes on in the background. There's a long running feud between JPL and NASA. Johnson or as I call it, Houston or Pasadena. Pasadena wants to do everything robotically,

and of course Houston is a man flight's space flight. They want to send people to Mars, and there's all of this tension between those and we have gotten far more support from the man space flight people than we have from the JPL crowd. Why do you suspect that's the way it is? Oh, it's partly just self interest. I mean, I'll just say, Okay, we find a dead civilization of Mars and we got to send astronauts.

You could drive rovers all around, you know, around some of these sites for a year not see anything because it's all buried five people at the surface. And Whitley Strieber, the science fiction writer, had a what he heard was a real statement by a JPL official At some meeting to JPL, people were screaming at each other, and this one JPL managers says to his other his fellow, He says, don't you realize that life on Mars means death

for JPL. Oh yeah, because it means that Mars, which has been a golden buffet, all you can eat buffet for the Mars community, run out of JPL. Mostly, it would end up being run by Houston bunch of cowboys, cow shit on their boots. So you're saying that they would, You're right, because they get foots on the feet on the ground in Mars six the rovers, Oh yeah, they wouldn't need rovers anymore. They

have people roving around. I hear you interesting, and so they this is part of what's going on is just a regular old organizational feud within NASA, and JPL regularly doesn't follow orders from NASA headquarters. They if if if, if Bush comes to shove. They said, well, we're part of Caltech. You know, you know it's such a huge thought. You just really gave me a light bulb in this protective nature that you're telling us JPL has

that they don't want to show ruins. They don't want to. They don't want to turn that camera on and and show this the destruction of machines and all these parts that come up in images, because if people find that's an of interest, screw the rover we want. We wanted to get people up, but we have people up. Were archaeologists and engineers looking through all this

stuff and yeah, all and they just hear. And you got to remember it's too you know, you've got to swashbuckling, you know, former fighter pilot kind of test pilot mentality. That's Houston's. I love them so much as a bunch of astronauts, yeah, versus a bunch of tweety kind of college professor types, you know, um, you know, sitting in a nice corner offices at JPL in Pasadena. So that's funny. It's it's it's and I understand it. I understand. I'm a team player. I always

try to be a team player on things. By the way, if somebody I prepared myself for the fact that somebody might come tap me on the shoulder, say doctor Brandaburt, we don't want you working on this anymore, talking about it anymore. I've been waiting for you to say something like, you know, never at the tap on the shoulder never happened. I mean,

no knock on the door from Simmon Intelligence. No, no, no. In fact, we found that members of the intelligence community community privately encouraging us. Tell me about that. What does that mean? Well, like Mark Carlotto, it's just he did satellite imagery for the Pentagon and he had this

one interesting encounter. He's sitting down at the Pentagon at this desk and beans sealing, and he had done a lot of work on the Mars thing in marspace and pyramid, and this Air Force colonel walked up to him and said, you know, we're aware of your work on Mars. Keep it up. It's good. It's good work. So rather than getting a tap on the shoulder and told you know, John Mark, we don't want you talking

about this anymore. You know that's so. And by the way, and that that's that's happened to me. I came over over one great idea and I got it to work in the lab and I did a lot of theory on it. And then one day the Air Force came up to me. Their first officer said, doctor Branbert, we don't want you working on that anymore, and we can't tell you why. And I said, I said, well, it's if the program had gone black. It was so successful.

My work was so successful that apparently the concept had gone black and there was now a classified, highly fassified program. There was an account that Carl Sagan was trying to show pictures of the faces in the Twope of Viking, pictures of the faces on Mars to an official at NASA, and the guy covered his face and wouldn't look at them. He san, he's covering. Sagan was trying to show an official at NASA. Wow, the pictures and the NASA or he was a no, he wasn't a NASSA officials planetary society

that Sagan belonged to. Here's this other hancho at this planetary society. This is a very academic, you know. And the guy covered his face, covered his eyes, who refused to look at the pictures, pictures away, I want, I don't want to see them. And amazing, it's so even Carl Sagan could not get people to look at these pictures because they didn't want to see that this thing was archaeology. Yeah, I want you to

talk about the Galaxus Galaxus chaos real quickly. You discovered this and was this brought up to the Hoagland team and we yes, yes, it was, Yes, it was. Okay, so I want you to talk a little bit about because this is, by the way, a great account of the Hogeland teams work was in UM the Face on Mars by Pozos. Okay, he has all of the stuff on the you know, the independent Mars investigator. We all. Here's the other thing we found out before we go any

further. We found out later the headquarters for the EMMET team was not in cart not in uh Dick Hoglan's office. It was actually at Stanford Research Institute, SRI. I want to ask you about this, and it was just down the hall from the remote viewing people. Okay, well that's very interesting. We were actually part of the remote viewing Thank you for thank you for bringing that up. You know you write about and we have not talked about

this. You were in this, You were meeting at the Stanford Research Institute in Colalto. Who got that? I mean, that's a very prestigious Who Oakland get in there? Who got in apparently Hogeland recruited two guys who just happened to be from Sri and apparently Sri management was very supportive. And this explains to me why I never got a tap on the shoulder. The US government and a sense gave its implicit approval for this research just by the fact

that they they didn't try and stop us. They could have stopped us. They could have just told me there must have been somewhere someone in the high levels that are seeing We're gonna let these scientists go ahead and do their uncover what they probably knew was the evidence of a long dead civilization. But the sad thing is that after you guys finished your work, it kind of went

dark. Well, what happened was we'd had a grant of use of this kind of pre internet Internet that we were using, and the money for that dried up. We basically completed an initial investigation. So I want to I want to drill down a little bit into the archay lot archaeology of glactus Galactus chaos, because I've only seen the faces that you discover, the two little faces. Is there? I mean, and you you also understood there's there's what looks like ruins, So is it close to the shores of the paleo

ocean. That's yeah, it was close to the shore. It's um um. The two faces are along a cliff line, and then if you go up on the you know, the top of the cliff, you see all of this fine structure meeting ruins or rubble, and then it gets all very smooth from the edge. So that means that the watch where the water met the land. That was where the water metal land. And it looks like they built a small city around this river flowing through the middle of town.

Was there an intimation? It all looks very kind of primitive and ancient. That's why people ask me, are you sure this wasn't the Vands technology. I said, gee, it sure doesn't look like it. It looks like it's all primitive, fairly stone age. I know, we talk about that, but we're gonna We're gonna you and I always go back on fourth on this. It's a very important point. What was the level of technology.

It's a it's a challenge, Okay, So I want to jump into the evidence of perhaps Mars's ultimate destruction and your discovery of this thermal nuclear explosion. Now where let's let's go back to the discussion where your in line, doing it, ready to copy an article or something. Yes, And the conversation comes up that there is uh, this zon one twenty nine, this uh, this isotope that is in the atmosphere of Mars, and you're casually talking

about it, and you're in the same room with a weapons expert. Yes, and this guy listens to what you have to say and without you look at you, look at the graph, look at he I was trying to xerox in those days. You couldn't download stuff. You had to go just go to the library and xerox things. And yeah, you know, and we got the job done, you know. And so I'm standing there in line with about ten people to get to the xerox machine. And he's a

very genial, friendly kind of character. And I said, and he's looking at the book it's Scientific Results of the Mars Viking Expedition. And I said, well, I'm doing some research on Mars. And he says, oh, what are you interested in? And show him the picture shows this graph with this big spike at Zeen one one twenty nine, which is not present in the Earth's atmosphere, and his smile vanished. And he said somebody knewked them. He just looked at me, and then suddenly he looked around.

He realized he's an unclassified area. It's the library, and you know, he said something that might possibly be classified. He got the hell out of there quick. I guess, oh, yeah, he just said, excuse me, put down the book. He was going to xerox, and just left the line. Did he ever come back to you after that statement, did you? No? No? No, I never saw him again.

He knew he overstepped his balance, right, He had made a spontaneous remark, and he realized he had said something considered sensitive in an unclassified area, so he immediately excused himself. It happened occasionally at you know, both laboratories I'd work for. People would suddenly say something and then they said, oh I didn't I didn't say that. You know, yeah, are they turning? Actually I shouldn't talk about that in this area because it's an unclassified area.

We're gonna take a short commercial break and give our sponsors a chance to identify themselves, and we will return with doctor John Brandenburg discussing his work on variety of NASA projects, as well as the state of affairs in the continual

dialogue regarding Mars. We'll be right back. My guest today is doctor John Brandenburgh, who is the author of Death on Mars, a look at the ancient history of Mars, what appears to be a nuclear or multiple nuclear explosions, and the ultimate destruction of an ancient race that lived millions of years ago on the surface of the planet. Talk a little bit about the fact that he was also part of a group that monitored Earth's atmosphere for had a big

what was that called what is it called? It's still around right, Oh, yeah, when when like North Korea sets off a nuclear weapon. Yeah, they actually fly airplanes around to pick up the dish, Yeah, to pick up the trace gases in the atmosphere, and they analyze and most of the gases that are interested in ENEE twenty nine is stable, does not radioactive, but most of the gases that are interested in are radioactive, so they're easy, they're easy to spot, Okay, and so they but they they've

done an enormous amount of work on what is the telltale signed nuclear weapon being tested because some people for a while, people were testing nuclear weapons and not telling anybody. So this is a way to find out who's letting blowing up sample air if you see a bunch of the xenon and isotopes, they were

mostly interested were unstable, you know, they're slightly radioactive. But also the xenon one twenty nine was a sure sign of the nuclear weapon going off, and so they they would monitor the air for that, and they've gotten really good at it. They had a whole group studying it. And so how do you capture zon Do you have to fly in a plane and pick it up in some kind of Okay, you can't do it from the ground. Oh, if you're close to a nuclear test, you could probably do it.

When they there's some data in the literature that I believe was actually collected right at a nuclear weapon site where they set off a nuclear bomb on Cower and measure the air afterwards, and it shows the xenon one twenty nine spike, and you know, and and they just they just published it without comment, you know, and they published it, you know, in a scientific journal without comment. Uh, well, it was it was a part of

the uh. The place I saw it was a bunch of air samples taken in different years by different workers and what you can see in the Earth's atmosphere is zen on one twenty nine has risen slightly because of not only hydrogen bomb testing, but also plutonium production makes some zen on one twenty nine and um, so it's it's not as big a deal as when a hydrogen bomb goes off, but it does when you're making plutonium to make atomic and hydrogen bombs

as a trigger, then you actually do see that, and so are the amount of C one twenty nine in our air that was measured before World War Two has gone up about five parts per million over what it was when they made measurements. I have measurements by the same guy in nineteen thirty seven just before World War two. Then after World War two it's Z one twenty nine

has risen slightly. And then finally in nineteen seventy when all the nuclear weapons open air testing was done and so was splatonium production by both sides, and you can see that it's gone up about five parts per million. It was it was easy to measure. I'm very curious about this. I mean, you explained to zon one twenty nine. Yeah, you got documents from what was it, what was collecting the zon was it the Viking mission or was

it Viking Viking mission? They had also now the Mars Science Lab on for one of the rovers. They verified all the Viking We had two Viking Landers had really good sensors on them, and um spot of the zero nine. My question real quickly that John, is they made this available to anybody the stadium. Yes, weird, So they didn't know what most people, not even I, even though I was a trained scientist, was aware of the implications of it. Okay, So only people who were in the nuclear weapons

community could actually understand what this meant. Okay, so you discover there's high levels of of this Z one twenty nine. How high was the level was? It was like two and a half time on Earth, just to every other major reservoir of the Solar System. We're talking the planet Jupiter, where they put a probe into the planet Jupiter and measured everything Zenon et cetera,

and the solar wind. They've measured that they get meteorites to fall out of space, they grind them up and heat them and get the gas out of them. And if you look at the Earth's atmosphere, every place in the Solar System that they measure zenon one twenty nine and zenon one thirty two. The abundances that are almost exactly one one to one, except on Mars,

where it's two and a half times more so is this problem? Is it a problem if you're uh by, if you're a human being and you're able to walk on the planet Mars, is that uh deadly to the toh No, no, no, it's it's it's it's a trace gas in the atmosphere. On Earth. You can actually use zenon as an anesthetic. Uh, you know, but you have to have almost one hundred percent zenon um and

they use it in flashbulbs. It's very expensive because it's very rare. Okay, but it has it has a lot of uses scientifically besides um um, you know, just being in the air and um. What's interesting about zenon is that it doesn't react with anything, so once it gets into the atmosphere of Mars, it just stays there. So it's been there for a long time. Yeah, you talk about that um is the so that's it's got a very high concentration of this. Is there any natural way to generate zones?

Yes? Because this has been a criticism of yours is. I think some people are saying, well, he's got it wrong, because the planet can create this, and this is something that has been part of the planet for years. But real quickly explain why that doesn't work. No, if you look at the literature, they freely admit that this is a mystery.

That the xenon one twenty nine. I mean, the same processes that occurred on Mars apparently occurred on Earth and in the Sun, and you know, on in Jupiter, and they gave equal amounts of one twenty nine and one thirty two to two isotopes, but on Mars you got two and a half times more en one twenty nine than one thirty two. This is just outrageously different, and that it is. They have actually a very closely studied meteorite

that has dust, cosmic dust in that predates the Solar System. When they grind it up and heat it, it releases the gas, including xenon, and it has a big spike at one twenty nine. And everybody knows that this meteorite never went to Mars. It predates the Solar System, and it's from a supernovel. Okay. And when I was at Livermore, they used the same computer programs to analyze supernova explosions as they did hydrogen bomb explosions. So physics is the same. So so now also I want you also to

know that the surface of Mars recently was heavily irradiated with neutrons. What does that mean, Well, that's when hydrogen bomb goes off. You know, it's a neutron partly a neutron bombay praise everything with neutrons, and that creates a pattern of isotopes and it affects particularly nitrogen in the air. The nitrogen on Mars is shifted towards nitrogen fifteen, which is typical after a nuclear weapon goes off. They see that on Earth. And then then then there's also

um it created a radioact. Two radioactive spots on Mars. One is near the face on Mars at Sidonia Menza. The other one is near Galaxis Chaos, the two sites of apparently the centers of the civilization that used to exist on Mars. So it's yeah, whoever dropped these bombs did them on major popular They didn't drop them directly, They dropped them above ground. I mean they went off in mid air. That's the thing this thing does not look

natural at all. There is no natural phenomenon. Yeah, talk about the signature of the actual bomb. You found this, Well, here's here's one of the things the bomb. When you start off a hydrogen bomb in mid air, and like at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they didn't drop the bombs and have them hit the ground and blow up. They blew up in mid air. Oh. Interest that matts creates maximum shockwaves and maximum fallout that spreads around. So and you do that up wind of where the place is you want

the maximum shock waves to hit. Does the shock waves travel down the wind and the sortes the fallout? And so both of these explosions occurred, one to the north west of Sidonia Menza and the other one to the northwest of Galaxis Cams. So they were correlated with those two sites. Not only that, when you create a big ball of ire like that, it creates nitric acid in the air from the nitrogen and the oxygen and the carbon dioxide, they break up and they form nitric acid, which etches glass. So at

both sites you have glass. There's a glass formed in nuclear weapons testing called trinatite after the Trinity site. It's a greenish it's a coke bottled green glass formed when the soil gets hit by the fireball. And not only that, the fireball creates nitric acid with that etches the glass. They found acid etched glass at both sites of radioactivity. Now that the radioactivity on these spots on Mars is very very small, it's the instruments are so sensitive that they detected

it. So there's two hot spots of radioactivity in the north of Mars, and there's surrounded by this glass called trinetite. And then if you look down where the shock waves would have converged when they wrapped around the entire planet and come back and run into each other, there's another hot spot. So at what's called the antipode of the explosion. It's it's kind of approximate, but

but it is there. So we have very strong evidence that this occurred, and um from radioactive potassium thorium crypton, not just the zenon but also crypton. Okay, so we have we have overwhelming evidence now and uh so UM and I presented this at scientific conferences. I want to ask you what has been the reaction by the community. Of course, this keep your book came out in twenty fifteen. Yes, much better data now than I do it have. Have you followed up on the data? Yes, yes, I

tried to improve the data. You can imagine as a scientist saying this, yeah in a crowd, just completely kind of mind shattering, world shattering kind of result. I had to um, you know, I had to do work extra hard to make sure that the data I used was good and convincing. Okay, And so the scientists that looked at your data were some of them were very positive you talk about, but there were others that were I

don't know what. What was the general reaction, Well, the general reaction from nuclear weapons experts I showed this too, was they agreed with me, but they are not free to speak out it. So how would they go to I would go to conferences. Xenon one twenty nine puzzle on barns has been a puzzle for a long time, and you find in the literature people refer to it. I mean, it was first measured in nineteen seventy seven.

Articles published in twenty twenty one still call it a mystery. The reason is that the xenon one twenty nine is the decay caused by the decay of iodine one twenty nine, which has produced in nuclear tests and then it decays into zeno one twenty nine. But also another thing produced in supernovas and also hydrogen bombs is a substance called plutonium two forty four. It has a The half life of zeno one twenty nine or iodine one twenty nine is sixteen years.

The half life of plutonium two forty four, which makes a lot of one thirty two xenon one thirty two instead of one twenty nine. That's half life is eighty years. So if the xenon one twenty nine had decayed on early Mars, creating a lot of xenon one twenty nine, then you would have expected a lot of one thirty two from the plutonium two forty four decaying

later. And they don't find it, which means what, Which means the whatever event happened hardly created any plutonium two forty four, and it created a lot of zenon one. And that's a hydrogen bomb. Oh, the signature is a hydrogen bomb. Okay, we're talking about hydrogen bomb signatures or supernova signatures. Okay. Plutonium two forty four is a very rare substance, but

I had twenty nine is much more common after nuclear weapon goes off. Okay, can we tell by the level of zon one twenty nine the devastation of the bombs. Oh, yes, we can calculate their their power. So what do you think they released as they released a billion mega tons of energy? These these if these were nuclear devices, they were as big as the Empire state building and they were dropped from space. Okay, but what not

the product of a primitive civilization. This is a product of a advanced space bearing civilization. You taught me a couple of years ago, though, that there was some modifications that were made in these bombs that made them stronger. And maybe it's the eating in the atmosphere was the one. Yeah, but I mean, wasn't there something unique about them that? I mean, well, they use a lot of thorium? What are the bombs? Apparently had a lot of thorium in um. Thorium was used in um nuclear weapons,

particularly the ABM anti ballistic missile warhead UM. It was tested at am Chata. It was full of thorium. And I don't know specifically why they Thorium is a lot more abundant and cheaper. So if you want to build a really big bomb, try and use as much thorium as possible, because it's a lot easier to make, all right, And you know, but this was not naturally these we have not natural event to two nuclear bombs, would that be enough to be a terminating event? Oh? Yes? The energy

released. The the thing that happened on Earth that wiped out the dinosaurs, it was called the Chilo impact, and that was just a big rock falling from space and hit the Earth and created this big fireball that was just there was nothing nuclear out it. It was all just a big, big rock hitting the Earth, making a big crater like a moon crater, and that

released though roughly one hundred thousand mega tons of energy. The energy release, based on the amount of isotopes in the Martian atmosphere, looks like it was of the order of ten to twenty ten to one hundred times more powerful than the chicks Alupe impact that wiped out the dinosaurs. And this happened to a planet only half the size of Earth, so it would have been absolutely devastating. It. The Earth recovered from the obviously the death of the dinosaurs,

but on Mars this was just fatal it destroyed almost the entire atmosphere. So let me let me, let me understand. So it goes off in one part of the planet, but it's the waves, oh yeah, the interview rockwaves that are wrapped all the way around the planet. That's yes, okay, okay now. But also it also pushed large amounts of the atmosphere just off into space and destroyed them. The oceans too. I would imagine it destroyed the oceans, that all the air went away, the oceans boiled or

froze. And would you think that studying this destruction would be something of interest to a planetary scientist. Oh yes, they're already finding places where apparently meteorites impacted on Mars and created tidal wage from the paleocean. By the way, I discovered the pale ocean in the process of examining the face on Mars. It's uh Sidonia. I think he wrote a paper on that too. Yeah, I did, and I presented a paper. I don't get any credit,

but Wikipedia, it gives me reference number one. Wikipedia, I don't Mars paleo ocean. If check out Wikipedia reference number one. Yeah, people don't give me any credit because that's the way academia works when you have somebody who's kind of controversial like me. Well, Wikipedia would never admit there were civilizations on Mars. That's that's unorthodox for them. That's yes, it is. Yeah, okay, So as we conclude, and by the way,

it's been a real pleasure speaking with you. Been a real pleasure talking if I really enjoyed it. Oh, there's one last thing I want to say. We're not that. I got a couple more questions. Go ahead, Oh okay, Oh, go ahead, you had something you want to say, Okay, there's This confirms what is called a principle of SETI search for extratressural intelligence, called the principle of mediocrity. It says that the human race is not only not alone in the universe, we're not even remarkable. The

universe is full of people like us. Yeah. In fact, if you want to know what intelligent life in the universe acts like, just watch TikTok or watch the news, and we're obviously not a bunch of angels. Okay. So that's a problem because it says that some of the people out there probably are not very pleasant, just like we have people like that on Earth. We have our North Korea's you're talking about other civilizations. Other civilizations may

be quite difficult to deal with. The Klingons are out there, the Dalex or from doctor who you know. And so that's I mean, when you say mediocrity, that's what you're saying. You're saying, Okay, the universe is a balance of good and evil. Yeah, it's just all good. We're not the most evil part of the universe. That would be conceit. We're actually see students. So the reason you're bringing this up is that this bomb, whoever developed this bomb and dropped it on the people living on the

planet Mars, this was acting like human beings. Well, they wanted to get rid of it. They did genocide, I think even yes, they did. Yeah. Now there's there's two things. Okay, we're talking about Mars mediocrity, and then there's a third factor that's called Fermi's paradox, the fact that we seem to be living in a universe seems to be a ghost

town here. We've had we have evidence that on two separate planets, and by the way, the stuff on Mars is like half a billion years old, two separate planets developed people who sort of looked and built stuff like us independently. That means the whole universe should be full of civilizations like our own, and we should be able to point satellite dishes anywhere in the cosmos. Get so commercials and political advertising and you know, on and on. Instead

there's silence. It's called Fermi's paradox. Fermi, the great physicists, said, you know, if we assume that life on Earth is normal, mediocre, you know, just running the mill. You've just been through World War two when he said that, this too, by the way, so he knew that the human race was not a bunch of angels. He says, then we should expect to see a lot of other civilizations out there, but we don't. Where are they? Here's the question, now are they dead?

Well? What about all these UFOs that are striculing around the planet. Oh well, I believe it or not. That actually is consistent with mediocrity too. It says we're not alone in the universe. And okay, and you know, and you've got people getting abducted by aliens and sexually abused by them, and well that sounds pretty normal, kind of like human being. Oh, there's there's a place in Europe Kosovo. There were a lot of

animal mutilations and people, especially women, being abducted and raped. But it wasn't an aliens from outer space. It was the Serbs versus the Albanians, old bad blood, and it would each side would mutilate each other's cattle and leave notes saying this, this is what you're going to look like next time, and h you know, and kidnapping women and raping them, that's that's

old. You're talking about the human condition. Yeah, we're talking about the human condition, and so, uh yeah, I don't really I've treated the whole UFO controversy in science fiction. I wrote a book called Morning Star Passed the Collapse of the UFO cover Up, I'll tell you, and I don't.

I didn't dodge anything on that, oh absolutely. In fact, if you look on the cover, there's there's two beautiful women are the news anchors at this upstart um news network kind of internet news network, And one's Asian American and the other is this blonde bombshell and she's actually, it's funny. I wrote it in two thousand and five. She's Ukrainian and Jewish, and I you know, so I didn't know Ukraine was going to turn into such

a big deal. But anyway, so and the Ukrainian finds out and trying to investigate the UFO cover up, but she's got her own cover up going on in her own head because she's an abductee. Oh boy. And she finally gets hypnotically regressed and deals with that, deals with that, and she says in an interview for that they put into their big story on the UFO cover up. She says, I've met these people from outer space. The good news is they're a lot like us, and the bad news is that

they're a lot like us, she says. And she finally she even adds, she says, and you know, I'm Ukrainian and I'm half Jewish, and I know what I'm talking about. Yeah, especially if she said a big team. Hey, as we conclude, John, what do you what do you foresee as first disclosure? Because there's all kinds of people out there right now. Stephen Greer, Oh yeah, Stephen Greer and I actually had lunch with him. Well, he's an interesting carrier. But what do you

see? Yeah, it will it be in our life time because lest time we talked a few years ago, you know, NASA's cover. I mean, they've got their hands full, especially the same thing with a d D in the Space Command with all this UAP activity. But what would be easier for them, God, what would be easier for them the disclosure of an ancient civilization UFOs or alien artifacts on Earth? Which one of those scenarios do

you suggest would be first? First by advice to the government, is that finding a dead humanoid civilization on Mars that's been dead for a long time. Yeah, never mind how they died right now, will discuss that later. That's much better way to break it to the public that we're not alone. Because it's a bunch of stuff. It looks like ancient Egypt or the Mayans or the Oldmes. It looked familiar. It doesn't you know, they didn't

have fangs or horns or anything like that. Looks very familiar. It looks like the Sphinx and the pyramids in Egypt. And they're dead and they look primitive. They don't look like it's it's the way to break it to the people that, Okay, we're not alone in the universe. There are people like us out there. Yeah, they're not going to come up, but they're not. You know, these people on Mars, they're not going to come after us because oh, somebody killed them. You know, that's a

great suggestion, because they're not going to be threatening. No, it's not threatening. Very it's the least threatening way to make the public aware that we're not alone in the universe. Not only that, because of the signs of the nuclear holocaust that occurred there, we have to go up there and find out what happened. Yeah, that means we have to become space fair.

And if the US government wants to justify an enormous amount of money spent on space defense and space operations, then this is the way to do it. So they can say they found it and then they just kind of right and reverse won't even talk about those UAP things right now, Well, those are just balloons, you know, those are just the sightings of Venus. You know, and by the way, people are very frightened. They will accept

that explanation right now. Well, that'll help them, though there's a dead civilization on Mars, and show them the pictures and the you know, then they'll and also evidence that Mars used to be earthlike with an ocean, and you know, that would help yeah, that would that means, okay, the same things that happened on Earth happened on Mars and produce something similar to us because the faces look almost human humanoid. Yeah, and they built stuff

that looks humanoid. So this is the best way to break it to people. But when do you think that will happen? Ten twenty two decades, three decades. Oh, I think it will happen this year. Be careful, well, you know, because we only have rulers on Mar. Here. We are here, we are Cliff talking about this, and I presented

it at scientific conferences, and you know, it's it's coming out. We have enough data now to show that the objects found on Mars have ornamental you know, there's despite erosion, there's enough ornamental and anatomical details visible in the new pictures to show, yeah, these are real archaeology. God, I would love phychology on Earth. By the way, it is eroded, So stuff on Mars is eroded, but that always shows important details. And we

found him. We found even nostrils in the nose on the face. It's sidonium. So we won by a nose. John a pleasure as always pleasure. He looked great and it's not it's heavy back sooner than another fourth through three or four years. Absolutely, absolutely no will be. They'll be updates on this. I think the I think this is going to happen barely. I mean, and Cliff, I tell you, honest to God, I'm just doing my job. I actually, when I found out there was a

nuclear holocaust on Mars, I didn't report it to NASA. I was gonna say about it. Well, I reported it to the Defense Department. It's their business. And they they sent over a guy from the Defense Intelligence Agency and he listened to my whole briefing and fickle out of notes. He was very serious, and I said, what do I do with this? And he he said, okay, well, we'll get back to you, and then he got They got back to us and they basically said, we don't

see any reason why you shouldn't publish this. So they want this to come out. Oh my god, I thought they would squelch you immediately. Well, I was prepared completely for them to do that, and I'm I'm a team player, and I wouldn't they asked, but instead they waved me on ahead. And uh so, UM, think of it this way. If the government has a problem with UAPs. It's it's got to react by building up our space defenses. We have to have a space force, which we've

created. We have to become space faring. We have to go to Mars and the asteroid Belt stuff like that. We have to get really good at this. Wow. And you can't do that without justifying it to the people somehow. And this is the best way to justify, the most non threatening way to do it. Amazing. And by the way, if you if you say, oh, we gotta we got a radio signal from a galaxy,

that's not gonna do it. They're not. People are not going to spend more, pay more taxes, billions of dollars from a from a again yea a dead civilizational bars. They will pay more. They don't want to see it like we all want to see it. We want to see all want to see it up close and personal. They're gonna first motel, They're gonna build tourist motels on gas. And that's true. That would that's a long flight to Mars. Oh no, it'll it'll get quicker. Okay,

we'll get better at this. Yeah. Hey, John, wonderful man. You look great. And I appreciate, Cliff, you look great too. So as we conclude this podcast, we have to ask ourselves, what do we do? How do we approach this information, this repression, this cover up of UAPs UFOs, the amazing evidence of a law civilization along dead civilization

and other extraterrestrial artifacts. How do we go about dealing with this? There's a body of scientists that have acknowledged that there is a ruined planet known as Mars, but we're not told that. Rather, we are paying billions of dollars for a rover who is looking for microbes. What the hell is the story here? Should we be happy about this? Is it something we should

really care about? Should we care about how we evolve? Or should we just go about living our life the best we can in a nine to five existence. I don't know about you, but I want to know more. I continue to want to know more. And I have said this many times. When it does come out that NASA has known about this, and I think it's going to happen as John says fairly soon, I'm not sure it's

going to happen within this year. I was a little surprising he said that I think heads should roll I've said this along all along, that the administrative body should be fired. I think in some cases reprimanded to the point where there is you can't have a jail time, but you can have something pretty close severe penalties for non disclosure of vital vital information on the planet Mars. These guys at NASA and JPL are liars. They lie to government officials,

they lie to the public, and I am tired of it. Here's a good example of this is a short audio from a video I found of a massive representative lying to the Vice Chairman of the House Committee on Space, Science and Technology, Dana Rochebarr. Have a quick listen. You have indicated that Mars was totally different thousands of years ago. Is it possible that there was a civilization on Mars thousands of years ago? That's Representative Dana Rouherbacher, vice

Chairman of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology. He asked a group of planetary scientists his ancient aliens question Tuesday, and they were pretty clear in their response. Mars was different billions of years ago and billion thousands of years Well, yes, and there would be there's no evidence that I'm aware of that. Would you rule, would you rule that out that see there's some people, Well, anyway I would, I would say that is extremely

unlikely. NASA has yet to find evidence of life on Mars, and while all hope isn't lost, the agency says any life on the red planet would probably be microscopic. Rubacher's talk of Martians got the most media attention, but he also offered some other concerns about a manned mission to Mars. I think the Moon is close by and whatever, we can actually get all benefit out

of going back there, we should before you take the next step. It's been forty five years since a human walked on the Moon, and NASA notes it still has a lot of unanswered questions about it. As for Mars, the agency wants to put astronauts on the red planet by twenty thirty. Now when I hear that, I'm infuriated in the fact that these people are not

brought up on charges. You know, it's funny because there aren't really any noted archaeologists who have studied the satellite imagery of the planet, and I have actually placed what looks like archaeological ruins in front of a number of archaeologists and a couple of them, and I can't name names. They promised, I promised I wouldn't name names. You'd be shocked if you heard who they are. They have actually said before I've told them this Mars. One woman said,

what are they going to start excavating? So you know, it's obvious these are ruins, and it's obvious that they're you know, sophisticated buildings. You know some of them are pyramidal. The dn M, the Petrie Molinar Pyramid is a huge pyramid, five sided, and there's pyramids all over the planet. So anyhow, I hope you enjoyed this, and you should know that I will not stop. Remember how insidious NASA is. Remember when we

had Mark Marion Rudnick on the program, a former NASA astronomer. What happened to him when he saw UFOs down where he lives in Los Angeles. He was persecuted. He continues to be persecuted. The men in black harass him, They bug his phones, they park in front of his building. I haven't heard from him in a few months. I've been trying to get him back on the show. I prayed a guy that he's still a life. So it's always too crazy to be a reality. It's it's like a reality

of the show, but it's just so. It's nuts. It's nuts. It's your future, people, it's your future. This is your evolution. You need to know that you are part of a group of planets inhabited. We are intelligent beings. It's time to come out from behind the bushes. We need to stop hiding from our off oral brethren. These guys are flying around and their ships looking at us, surveying us. In some cases, typically not the United States. They're getting out of their ships and saying,

hey, what's going on. It happens a lot in Mexico, it happens a hell of a lot in South America, it happens in Africa. And I gotta tell you it's amazing. Now look forward and then coming a few

weeks to a program series that we're developing here called the Alien Experience. And these are a number of people, most notably Whitley Strieber and a whole bunch of other people that are featured in books, who have chronicled their interactions with alien species, alien beings from other planets who are going, hey, we're

here, take a look at my ship. And in some cases they are, you know, brought on board, flown around some cases outside of our planet, in the other locations in the cosmos, and told point Black that hey, you're not alone. There's others like us here to meet with you. So look forward to that. An alien the alien experience, it's coming up soon. And this is something I'm bringing forward. This is gonna that's gonna be on destiny. That's gonna not gonna be an Earth angels, but

it's gonna be on Destiny. So check it out. All right. I want to thank my guest today, doctor John Brandenburg. Really great to have him. Continued health and wellness. Thank you John, as always a team of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys, Rocket you do, you do, Rock, you really do. All right, take care if you will, and we will talk to you next time. Oh and by the way, this music is by Edgar Hopp.

This is the full track called Nebular. If you want to send me an email, it is our closing music for the day.