What a strange week this is becoming, and one that needs to be considered. I'm preparing to tour with the last tour group of the year earth Asients Mexico, the Sacred Mexican Temple Tour. That's going to be the eighth through the fifteenth of November, and I'm going to get on a plane. The other issue is I have a apartment that is being updated and they're rebuilding the kitchen and the bathroom and the floors and the rugs and everything. And so I'm packing right now and I didn't realize
I had so much. I'll just say it crap. And I'm giving this stuff, all this stuff away, And you know, it's very freeing when you pack up and you start throwing stuff away. And of course you can imagine that I have literally bookshelves of books and magazines and stuff like that, because I'm always on the go looking for the newest author's newest material, and publishers just dailyg me. Each week I get between three and five books, so
I try to keep some and I give a lot away. Luckily, I have a friend that is at the local college and he's giving them away to students and selling some and so. But you know, when you move, you really got to figure out what you want to keep, what you don't want to keep. And this has been the issue for the last couple of weeks, is just getting rid of stuff. And I'll tell you it's freeing. It is very freeing. Hey, welcome to Earth Ancients. This is Cliff,
your host. I hope you're doing well today, and I am again on the move. I'm excited about this trip to Mexico because I'm writing about Mexican culture, I should say Maya in the culture. And this is a real fabulous topic for me because this book is allowing me to express years of energy work that I've been doing. I trained as a reiki teacher. Actually I was a practitioner for about five years and became a teacher later. Although I don't teach anymore, my ex wife does. We
both had a business. And when you use reiki, you're actually amplifying this natural energy field that we all have known as the universal life force. Energy. Now, the Maya call it something else, the Chinese call it something else, the Tibetans call it energy fields. And one of the great activity that I like doing when I'm down in the Yucatan is taking my compass and placing it on the base of pyramids, temples and buildings that I get
a little hit on. And when that when that activity hits the body of the compass, it begins spinning and then I then I can tell people, hey, sit here, if you're interested in meditating, get a sense and what we are now understanding. And I got to tell you this. Most archaeologists just think I'm nuts. But if you are at all familiar with the shaman and the history of the Maya, there is a period there's a science involved in the creation of these pyramids. They do do not
lay out their cities randomly. Typically it's a sensitive known as a shaman or otherwise known as a daykeeper, the calendar ocole or the calendar calendar readers and creators. These guys place their cities, their temples and pyramids over lay lines which are tollric field energy centers. And so when we go down to Yucatan, we're looking at the pyramids and we're wanting to know if they're active. I know there's a handful of that are active, but there's new
areas that are being discovered constantly. And when you go to these new areas. It's important to bring a compass so you can you can check on the energy field. Some people who have resources can purchase a filled analyzer which you can adjust to geomagnetic energy fields. And we see this in England when we go to the stone circles. You can testament the Stonehenge, Avebury or any of the typical stone circle sites and you typically are going to
pick up a hell of a lot of energy. Now, there's a funny story that I tell when I first went down to Chichiita at the invitation of an elder named Humbat's men who wanted to show me the city. It's a long story. I won't get into the details, but I had a girlfriend with me in those days, and this is nineteen ninety six. In those days, you could climb the pyramids. You could climb El Castillo at
chichen Itza. So we're getting a tour and he says, climb the pyramid and sit up there at the top for you know, a little bit of time and just kind of take it all in. Well, we climbed to the top, which is very our challenging because it's you know, it's almost at a forty five degree angle. The stairs are small. What they do for you is they give you or there is a chain that's attached to the top end of the bottom that you used to go up and down in those days. That was the key.
If you don't have that, you're in serious trouble going down because it's really steep and it's it's it's treacherous scary actually. Anyhow, so my girlfriend and I get to the top and we're sitting and looking and after about ten minutes, we're hit with this wave and it's a wave of energy and I've never felt anything like it, but I was. I was stunned and I was disorientated.
It was very, very odd. We both took another twenty minutes maybe I think it might have even been thirty minutes to kind of reorientate ourselves, and we climbed back down the pyramid. Now that's not the end of the story. Were we both were asking whom boughts this mayan elder, what we are experiencing, and he told us that we had experienced one of the pulsating this energy and there's certain times of the day where it's higher than lower. So I didn't think anything of it. That night. I
had a tremendous number of odd dreams. But what happened to my girlfriend was she started administrating. She started having she had her period and it was not normal. We had to go run against some pads and and take care of her. But it affected her on a physical level. And what they have discovered is that these energy fields are biocentric. They're designed to enhance the body, to heal the body, to open these energy centers that are are around the body. You cannot climb the pyramids anymore, but
there are certain areas where you can. We will be definitely climbing ek Balam, which is close to chichen itza smaller site, because that's that pyramids available. But the pyramid at Ushmahl is not available anymore. Cha No, So if and when you get a chance to go to these pyramids, if you don't have a compass, then just see if
you can climb them. Because this is extremely important. I'm going to talk a little bit about this energy field to the group, and I'm sure I'll get some pushback from the archaeologists that are in the group, but hey, you've got to be open to this because this is a science and a physics that is slowly making itself
aware to us. I speak of John Burke. John Burke was in Chi in Guatemala at tical tested a number of pyramids that were newer tested the old ones, and the old ones are really charged and pushing out lots of energy and other places too. So this is important. This is very very important to talk about to get
clarification on. And we have a couple of people that are coming up before the end of the year that are scientists that can confirm the temples that are sitting on these unusual lay lines or energy fields, and how and how they are making themselves known as not only healing spots for the locals, but they're being identified by these scientists for people in the general public to go and visit, kind of like Lords in France, where you go and you bathe in the water. That water has
been charged. These temples are charged and they charge you. And this is why it's really important, and this is what I write about in this book the Maya controversy, because the Maya were energy scientists and they had a different science and physics that we just don't understand. So I'm looking again, I'm looking forward to this tour and it's going to be a blast, and I'll report back to you with photographs and views and other comprehensive data
on the Maya, all things of Maya. And by the way, Ed Barnhardt, if you haven't seen it, is on at least one episode of Ancient Apocalypse too, and he's giving Graham the overview of the Maya. He doesn't get into energy. That's not Ed's thing, but he's at Polanki and Polanki has a couple of pyramids that have wonderful energy energy fields to experience, so check that out. My guest today is doctor Heather Land. We haven't had Heather on for
Jesus a couple of years. She is talking about the the Templar Knights of Europe and what we're gonna focus on today is a symbology that they used, that they enhanced, that they were seeking and it's known as the Baphomet, and we are gonna learn about the symbology of it. We're going to learn how they captured it, and we're gonna learn how they used it and were very secretive of it because they lived in a time that was barbaric. And today you're gonna learn just how important this is
and why it's being revived. So today's program is Baphamet Revealed, and my guest is doctor Heather Lynn. It's great to have Heather Lin, doctor Heather Lyn on the program. And she is writing Like the Wildfire and has a new book that she is releasing called Baphamet Revealed. It's a new book, and I wanted to have her on the program because it's been a while and Heather's very active,
as many of you know. And this new book deals with a great subject, one that I really appreciate, which is the Templar Knights, but not just the Templar Knights as a general point of view, but some of their beliefs, perhaps their practices, sacred practices. And this is what makes us new books so fascinating, is that Heather has taken a deep dive and is looking at it from a
number of different esoteric angles, which I appreciate. So Heather, welcome to I should say, welcome back to Earth Ancients.
How you doing, I'm will How are you?
Yeah, I'm doing great?
Awesome.
All right, let's talk about this book. What was your inspiration? I mean you you reference this French Catholic priest named Levy. But was was that the were you reading and Levee came up in some in some passages or was it more that you wanted to take a deep dive into this esoteric subject and how the Templar Knights applied this.
Well, it does seem a little unusual of a subject, probably, And a lot of people have asked me, how have you gone from writing on a Naki material and all of this stuff to a cult or something as scary as a baphomet? And that's an interesting story, uh, But it kind of has to do more with the fact that over time, as I've been researching some of the more esoteric or even religious ideas of ancient people, there
are some constant themes. And what I try to do is look at the whole situation as a phenomena as opposed to getting too wrapped up in the say, mask
of the situation. So, like Joseph Campbell referenced the hero with a thousand faces, we do get these phenomenas that we as individuals, over time and different cultures, we put different names to different masks, so to speak, different icons and symbols, and then sometimes we just get those confused with one another, and we don't see the actual underlying truth.
And so, for instance, when I'm researching something like say aliens, I find that often I'm also researching angels, demons, gin and a whole host of other creatures, so to speak. So rather than look at those things individually alone, I try to look at the underlying phenomenology of the experience that people are having. And you kind of see that, you know, this is kind of the same, or at
least there's a lot of similarities between these experiences. And one religion may call it one thing, one culture may call it another. But you just see this over and over again. And so I had a natural progression, so to speak, into looking more into the metaphysical side of the cultural materials that we look at. And so I tend to study cognitive archaeology anyway, and so it just
seemed like a fit. So looking at the symbols, I just I started saying, Wow, I see these things coming up again, not the symbols per se, but the underlying messaging, the things like the positions of the symbols, how they're.
Being used, the memes, so to speak.
The and I mean that in like the Richard Dawkins sense not the comical memes, but the mimetics of it, and I start looking and saying, you know, these have commonalities. And then it just so happened that I saw a news article about parents being very upset because in Target they were selling T shirts with like cute little baphomets
on it. And I say cute because they were neat nice cartoon drawings of this usually spooky creature that some call it a demon or an evil deity, and they were very upset about it, and I thought, oh, oh, yeah, that's interesting story, isn't it. Why would they put that on children's clothes? But you know whatever, they're being edgy. But then why is that considered edgy? Well, probably because of its connotation with Satanism, because the Church of Satan uses Baha met as it's kind of logo in a
lot of ways. They use a sigil it's based off of Bapphamet. And then the question is, well, why is it Satanic?
And what's what is going on here?
And you see it kind of creeping up in all of these different, even contemporary contexts, and I just got curious about it, but I kind of put it aside and as I research more, I see, if anyone remembers my book Evil Archaeology, the cover of that has Pazuzu on it, which is a Mesopotamian demon of the southwest wind, and he is standing in the position that you find on the in the amulets, where he has one hand up in one hand pointing down, and a very recognizable sense,
you know, a gesture that basically looks like what Baphomet's doing. You also see this in some paintings of like the Apotheosis of George Washington. You see even Jesus doing this. So you start to think, well, what is going on here? What do all these things have in common? And it just naturally led me to this figure over and over again, and I thought, well, it's very controversial. People are very upset about it, and so of course naturally I'm drawn
to controversial and upsetting things. And I thought, well, the best thing we can do to tackle fear is to understand it. And so that's sort of the purpose of the book. It's not to be a promotion of the symbol, it's not to denigrate the symbol. It's just simply a historiography of looking at this controversial symbol, trying to find where did it begin and what does it represent and why has it had this seemingly long life and what can we learn from that. So hopefully it's more of
an introduction, so it's not the biggest book. There's many other books on the topic that go on a deep, deep dive that's meant for people who are very much involved in sagnosticism or otherwise. That is not this book. This book is if you have no idea what Baphamet is, this is to introduce you to the idea in a hopefully objective and open way.
Before we talk about the Templars, let's describe Baphamet as a symbol. It's a goat's head with a human's body. And one of the things that's described and you don't see it, it's a hermaphrodite, which is male and female genitalia. And I'm not sure was it Alfis Levi that designed and assigned the hermaphrodite identity to this figure.
Yes, essentially that is where the symbol gets its imagery
and iconography. So, as you mentioned, it starts with the story of the Templars and the first mentions that we have of it go all the way back to the Templar trials, and so this was one of the things that was brought up in the transcripts of the trials, that the templars were being accused of worshiping this idol, and the idol was called Baphomet, and so from that point it's you know, you could look at the bafa Met we see now and say, well, that's what they
were worshiping, But you have to remember then that image that we know as Bahamet wasn't the image that the templars had. And so when you read the transcripts of the trials, you find they had a description of what it was that the templars were worshiping, actually many descriptions, and they were very different than say, a goat headed androgynous being. One of those was a floating head with a beard, so something just very strange and different. Another
accusation was that they were worshiping a cat. So they couldn't really get the story completely correct because some of the time complers admitted to worshiping one deity and others didn't, and there was a lot of miscommunication because they were being tortured, of course, and so it's really hard to know what was an actual confession what was not. But if you look at what they were accused of, they were accused of heresy and they were accused of worshiping
this idol. So the question is what is this idol? And there are a lot of theories and a lot of ideas, and one of the most popular has been this charge that they were in the Middle East for so long that they started to assimilate a bit or at least have exposure to different forms of Islamic mysticism and gnosticism, and what they started to do was syncretize Christianity with Islam more so bend in a gnostic or
mystic sort of sense. And they were caught or overheard worshiping Mohammed, and so the idea of Bahamet being a mistranslation of a word that was overheard of them worshiping Mahammet. That is where it's believed that Bahamet comes from. But
that's not the only idea. Some of it has to do more with understanding Sophia in gnosticism and the relationship with Bahamet and that so it's it's really murky, and a lot of people have made a lot of suggestions, and none of them weren't actually from a primary source. The only real primary source that we have or the accusations in the Templar trial transcripts, which are available actually online to read, which.
Is I can't believe that there's actual transcripts of these trials because they're terrible. Let's talk a little bit. Let's give a little highlight on the Templar Knights. One of the things that people don't realize is that they became financial wizards and grew very wealthy and powerful, and they
were loaning money. And I guess one of the big problem areas was that they loaned King Philip the fourth of France a ton of money and he became very indebted and he decided, rather than pay them back, that he was going to go out and basically crush them. Talk a little bit about that period of tasks, like it's like a thousand a d right ron.
The Templars were founded in eleven nineteen, so this had been and so they had a while to sort of build this wealth and build this reputation. And they were initially employed to help protect travelers and pilgrims that would go to the Middle East, and in this as well, they had adversaries. Those adversaries were who were known as
the Assassins. It's where we get the word assass and these were sort of there were a group of Muslim Assassins, people who were practicing a different form of mysticism as well. Interestingly enough, they were using Hashish since the etymology of the name Assassins, and they were kind of enemies of the templars because they were not happy with the templars being there. They were the ones also attacking some pilgrims.
But the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and so they did end up forming somewhat of an alliance, it's believed, and so this became another thing that allowed them to have this big control and power over the region. And as you said, they started having a lot of money. They were you could consider them some of the first banking elite, and so they did hold the purse strings and they loaned money to king, they loaned money to
the church back. The church wanted to get rid of them so bad, but they had the money.
So it is believed that.
They weren't worshiping Baphamet at all, but that this was just some sort of ploy to get them to be guilty to something so they have the justification to condemn them for at least even treason, so that they could
be killed and dispensed with. But they they this would That happened in thirteen oh seven, So we're talking about, you know, a long time of the Templar reality being that they were gaining power and gaining wealth and gaining influence even though they were supposed to be very impoverished. Their their symbol had two templars riding a horse to suggest that they were just ease.
Like a vow of poverty is almost what they were trying to show people.
Yeah, so they had this valve of poverty, but everybody kind of knew that they were extraordinarily wealthy. And they reigned, so to speak, and in secrecy for a long time, and it was enough time that they gained their own sense of spirituality through religious syncretism, and they posed a huge threat to the order of the Catholic Church, and the politics at the time.
Talk a bit about because these are unique individuals. They're warrior monks, which is just so out of character because you think of a monk as someone who doesn't who abhors violence and killing in war. But these guys were highly trained soldiers and warriors. But what I want more information on in what you uncovered is how did they switch into the esoteric studies, these sacred studies that everyone's curious about and thousands of books have been written on this bent towards the occult.
Yeah, that's a very good question, because I don't know that there's a clear line of evolution, if you want to call it that. But they they started out being definitely trained as warriors. They were looked at as potentially martyrs if necessary, very very violent. It was a military order.
But over time the need for the military aspect of it sort of declined, you know, considering this was like over the course of almost two hundred years and in some cases two hundred years, the original need that they thought they had to go into Jerusalem and you know, fight and do all of this. Once they actually reached their destination, then the then the rest of it was like,
and now what do we do? And so there was this great fervor in the beginning to get recruits to go on on these crusades into the Middle East and to take up the sword and to go out there and fight, and it was a very harrowing and heroic adventure in their minds. And it was because think of the travel, think of the immense dangers that they faced.
So they had that push, they got through it, and then they started to have to figure out what's the next step, and so kind of like I would kind of look at it more like what happened with the Freemasons, generally speaking. When the Freemasons start out as a Masonic guild, so workers coming together in the time where many people
were developing guilds. It was a very practical thing, learning new skills, keeping trade secrets so that you would have power, so that you would be able to negotiate different things, and very practical in its goals. But over time, when that need maybe isn't so much, but for various socioeconomic reasons or however, the organization doesn't just cease to exist and Freemasonry it switched it's focus to speculative freemasonry, and so you have this more of a brotherhood, a philosophy angle,
a political angle in some cases. So they continue to be a guild, but they go into this more spiritual mindset. So I think that that may have been akin to
what was going on with the templars. And initially they had this very utilitarian, very practical, a very romantic in their mind's view of what they were going to do that required military prowess, and they went over time and accomplished that, and then what and so being exposed to all of the new ideas where they were located and the new people, that was very I mean that happens often. You could see that in Sumer. You could see that in any situation where there's an influx of new people
and their ideas kind of merged together and syncretize. And so I think it was a natural progression, shall we say.
You say that their interest in esoteric topics and power symbols like say the Cup of Christ, which is featured in a number of movies, is a true description of their desires to gain some sacred spiritual power through these artifacts.
So I'm going to speculate a lot here, and what I'm going to say about that is that I think like the very beginning of their mission and they being like they're not a monolith. I mean, again, this happened over a long period, but I think generally speaking, the initial draw is to do something very practical, something say taking over conquest and area whatever power.
In the physical form.
But then over time, once that power has maybe been realized, then there's this inclination to go to the next level, shall we say, so, I think it's definitely a power move. It's looking for more power. If you think of it like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you can consider that once they have secure all of the basic fundamental material needs through the conquest, through whatever it is that they were doing, now what you know they're looking for meaning self actualization,
They're looking for something else. It becomes transcendent and more spiritual in nature. So I think that in this case, in particular with the templars looking for artifacts, I think some may have gone out looking for the specific artifact thinking it may have a magical power, but definitely looking for the artifact itself.
But over time, as.
Their ideas maybe evolved or changed, given the exposure they had to other idea sets, they in my view, got a little more esoteric and occult oriented in their quest for power. That they saw that it wasn't a materialist worldview as they once thought. That it wasn't necessarily the cup so to speak. That they were looking for things that were more hidden, something that was more symbolic, and
going more towards that ancient hidden wisdom. And so I think they were influenced by the mystics of the time and more open to that thinking since they had already kind of won in their minds the material sense. So it's sort of like the Nazis. They were doing the same thing. So they had the onerbe they're looking for the spear of destiny? Are they looking for the spear?
Because it's actually magical perhaps some people. But there is something to be said for the illusion of power when you get to a point where already having all your needs, Matt and you're kind of in an elite position where you are looking now at something more transcendent, and whether that's a real power or not, I don't know is necessarily important to dwell on. I think it's important if people in positions of power believe it, because they'll have
real world consequences. So I always say, you know, people will say to me things like, well, who cares if like the so called elite are likening aliens, or they're trying to do psychedelics to contact the clockwork elves or whatever.
Who cares, right, I'm like, well, yes, I get it.
But whether or not these things are real doesn't matter, because if people in positions of power who are able to make decisions and push policy, they believe these things to be real and they use that to inform their decisions, then we have a problem.
Also, if it is real.
And they maybe have access to information we don't, well then we also have a problem. So either way, I think it's a problem worth investigation. But with the Templars, I think that they were definitely looking for the material at first, and then they realized through the introduction of some of these perennial philosophies that they encountered through different religions and philosophies and thinkers of the time, that they
were looking for something else. Because remember, in Islam it's an Abrahamic faith.
They have their.
Own view of Jesus and what happened on the cross, and what happened they had in the golden age of Islam. They kept all these fantastic records. They have this fount of knowledge that was anchored in Western thought enough that the Templars could recognize it and so it could look something very true to them. Like Platonic writings or something like Kabbalah or whatever. It would look very interesting to them to think, Wow, this, this resonates somehow, this this is I think this could be true.
So whether or not it's true or.
Not, I think that just opened them up to the possibilities of their quest being something not just spiritual in a religious sense, but more metaphysical and more transcendent in some sort of greater scheme.
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, doctor Heather Lynn, discussing her new book bapha Met Revealwil We'll be right back. My guest today is doctor Heather Land, who has written a new book on the Templar Knights called Baphamet Revealed. And we're getting details as to just how this symbology, this energy
was used by the Knights throughout Europe. It's funny you bring up the Nazi and you actually mentioned Heimrich Himmler seeking these gifts and these items that are attributed to the Templar Knights. Is he looking for documents? Do you think or is it true that he is looking for the knife of whatever, the spear of Destiny, and these other strange objects that are featured in so many strange movies that we have today.
Yeah, that's a good question. I think that Himmler believed in the power of these items. I think that some people maybe didn't, but they were interested in getting with the symbol itself holding onto the spear of Destiny or even the Holy Grail, because that could look like, you know, now I have this power, and it's just a very strong symbolic thing. So it could just be that. But Himler himself, he was very very much into the belief of of the occult and magic.
And so on.
So I think that Himmler really did believe that what he was doing would be finding these treasures from the templars and being able to maybe harness their power. But also I think probably more what they were looking for were connections that could be made to legitimize their theories about where they came from or where we came from
all individually as a species. It was, yes, and so they were very much interested in this, and they it was not just racial science of the day back then, where it was like, well, let's you know, measure and
look at phenotypes and judge, et cetera. There was a deep occult underpinning to it because of their adherents and interest in ideas that were maybe a little theosophical at the time, so like root races, the idea of Atlantis and Lemuria and mu in all of these places having to be associated with where the Aryan race and this came from. So they always had a mystical edge, even
if all of the Nazis didn't. And that's another important thing to point out is that an average person who was in say Berlin at the time, and maybe they were an part of the Nazi party card carrying member, it does not mean that they believed any of this. It means that they were believing the outward facing, the exoteric.
They were believing and having a strong Germany and getting rid of all these people, and they were going through their own thing and all of the stuff that we would consider unfortunate and terrible, but the norm and human behavior, things like territory issues or racism or all of this.
But the people the very very.
Top, there was a group of individuals Himmler and others who were not necessarily motivated by just that, but the root of the motivation was deeply a cult and magical, and so much so he builds a castle, and he associates himself with all of these different nights of the round table and just wild things.
Right.
So, I usually like to remind people that we're not far from that. That if we look at systems of power and we think that there may not be individuals in there that also hold different, possibly dangerous beliefs, maybe magical beliefs, and we're just deluding ourselves. Don't let us suit or a uniform or a position of power convince you that there aren't elites in positions who are maybe trying to find a spear of destiny or the Sumerian King's list or tablet of destinies, or who knows what?
Would you say that the knights were using the Baphomet to not only pursue hidden knowledge, but to wield it in some way.
Yeah, I would say, so.
So how would they wield it?
Well, if they are believing that this is a form of wisdom and magic, that they would be able to get the hinosis of some sort, and then that would give them ultimate power.
And I think again, if.
They have already felt as though they had so much power in that they had the money. They had control over the church in a lot of ways because they had the money. Where else do you go. They had their adversary, which was you know, the people in the area, particularly in the assassins, but they made an alliance with them, so over and over you see that they're getting what it was that they want. They kept coming into their own power. So what's left, right, So what's left is
that they want now this metaphysical power. They want to transcend, They want to become like gods.
So if I study Eastern philosophy and I meditate and yoga and things like that. But if you are wielding a sacred esoteric knowledge, are you trying to have of power over other people, which is a perverted form of power, or are you trying to enhance the human being in some capacity so that they are have evolved in some way.
That's a great question, and that really depends on the so called practitioner. And that's where we get ideas of say left and right hand path, or this idea of being a magician. There's so much discussion in that realm already that yes, there's power just as a neutral thing, and then there's what do you do when you have that power? Do you use it over others or do you use it.
To empower yourself?
And so this is why Baphomet as a symbol can be so controversial because it can be used and has been used to sort of promote this idea of rebellion and power over others, but it is also used for people to contemplate and to meditate on the idea of
having control over yourself. So in the in So, you mentioned the Eastern philosophy of sort of you know, the meditation and going inward and having that sort of coming together of the positive and negative finding zen however you want to discover it the if you have to excuse me, there is a I hear fire trucks and things, so maybe you want to edit that out. I was like really bad, and I was like, oh my.
Gosh, I'm sorry.
Let me.
So you mentioned Eastern philosophy, and I think that's an important thing to consider that that's an act of going within yourself and looking for that transformation within. You're using will to have the self control, this idea that you can control your breathing, you can control your emotions and it's all about having power and personal power to control, but it's it's looking at how to control you as
opposed to the environment. But the other way is to say, well, I'm going to exert power over this environment and whatnot. Baphomet represents those two different paths put into one. And so there's the idea of dissolving or something you know, being broken up into pieces and then the coagula or bringing it back together. So it's like a destruction and
a reconstruction all put together into one. So the idea of the Eastern way of doing things is part of it in the argument that the occultists would make, and an idea of say a more individualist approach or something could be something that would be viewed as a Western perspective. So it's all about this unity of opposites coming together to be like the left foot right foot marching towards something.
So that's like both are necessary. That doesn't mean I'm not saying that that I necessarily agree with that or that that's my personal belief, but it's just to suggest that this more open minded approach to the unity of opposites or things that look like they're in opposition is one of the things that was that Baha Met turned into in the eighteen hundreds, We really don't know fully what it represented to the Templars, and that's just There
will be people who say that they do know. A lot of those people are looking back and trying to decipher what they think, but there is no really great first hand any kind of experience, or it all goes back to the Templar trial transcripts, and that's the best we have. That doesn't mean that there aren't people who did a good job with maybe a quality of analysis
of sorts. But in the end, when we look at Bapphamet and we see this one figure that has this goat of Mendy's appearance, and it's the unifying of the both genders or unifying of the up and the down symbol as above so below, and all of these things that comes from Levy in the eighteen hundreds, and it was during a very important time that he was a product of his time period, his environment, so to speak.
It was a time where people were becoming very politically motivated, and it was a time where he himself was trying to change and understand the more mystic approaches to religion. As you mentioned, he was a Catholic priest, and he was very devout, and he believed in mysticism and meditation and prayer, and he believed in icons, and he believed in imagery and the power of symbols. But he felt that the church was getting to be very corrupt and
it was stymying him. And he also started to get wrapped up in political movements like particularly socialism, and that's what really moved him, and he thought, wow, you know, Catholicism, the word Catholic means unity, and as I see it, the Catholic Church is not unified. But what is unified, and what could be unified would be the people through socialism. So he called socialism. What in in quotations here true Catholicism.
So to Levy, true Catholicism was socialism. So he felt that that in and of itself needed an icon to meditate on. And that's where Baphomett comes from. It represents a sort of transition from the Catholic Church to the Church of socialism. And so it's interesting because we don't often think of those types of symbols of as having some sort of political orientation or let alone like an economic situation. Like it's a like socialism is an economic position.
So but that's what he was doing. He wanted equal rights, he wanted equal rights for women. He wanted all of this, and it sounds great, it's like, oh, that's nice, but he's he thought that the best way to pursue this was through magic. So he wrote a book on magic made this image.
Which is blasphemy in the face of the church. He must have used a synonym or a never a different name to release the name of this book, or maybe he published it after he passed away. He did.
His name was Alphonse Constant and so he changed it to Elphis Levy.
Yeah, so he changed the name. He left the church, he changed the name. And would you believe that the book that he wrote that included bappha met it was a ritual magic. It became a certified best seller in the year eighteen six. I think it became the best seller in eighteen sixty eighteen. Okay, there were two versions and they were kind of put together, so there's different dates on the different editions, but they around that period.
It was a best seller, like a mainstream bestseller. Writers, poets, bohemian types, at the time were very excited about the prospect of leveraging the occult to push political agendas, which sounds like very like strange, like we wouldn't necessarily connect those two things, but that's what they were doing. And they saw this Bapha met Bimbo as a symbol of rebellion, as a symbol of rebelling against a giant system and
doing so in this construct of love and unity. And so much so that the Bapha met And this is wild because we would look at this creature and go, oh, this is a demon. But according to Levy, when you look at Bapha Mat, you're looking at the true love of God and his creation.
This is what's so strange. I wanted to stop you for a minute. He actually just he the figure on your book cover. Is this this goat with this human body and other parts? But Levy says, the symbol represents love, unity, and spiritual wisdom. How does it turn? How did did the church turn it evil? Where did the Catholic Church say? This is and this has happened before in the past. Because we're looking inward, we're meditating, we're contemplating, that's the
work of the devil. Is that why the Church turned it to the dark side.
Well, I think that Levy knew that he was taking images that were already considered dark by the Church and putting them together, and he was doing that maybe the troll because he chose the goat of Mendies for the head. He chose to put a pentagram on the forehead. Now, if you look at the pentagram, it's facing upward, which is a different way than say the what would be considered demonic. If it's demonic, it's pointing down, it's a reversion.
If it's pointing up, it's a classical alchemical symbol, meaning the wisdom of man, of human beings. So it has like the head is at the top with outstretched arms and the two legs. It represents man, and so the torch on the top represents wisdom, and the feet being cloven hoofs it represents the human being in touch with the earth. But the wisdom and the horns represent reaching this higher wisdom that is usually depicted even in the
past with Moses, who has horns in some artwork. The idea of horns being something that goes all the way back to as far as you can look even sumer you see the wys, the kings, the gods, they wear bullhorns, they wear all sorts of horns. Horns denotes this divine ascent and wisdom. So even though it has this look to it, the symbology is to say there is a
unification of opposites. There is the feet of a cloven animal that's like very lowly, but all the way at the top there's the horns of wisdom in the flame of wisdom, and the forehead is representing the third eye that is open to the wisdom of humanity. And the wings are transcendent because you can fly. It's like angelic. It's this sort of thing. It's the as above so below, and the cadusis in the middle too, is showing the
healing power of the unity of opposite. It's intertwined. You have the fact that it is androgenists, so it's both male and female, and it's showing the power of both of those genders combined into one. So it's like the alchemical marriage. It's all of these different symbols put together.
And I think he pretty much knew that it would cause people to look and say, oh, this is blasphemous, right, And I think also that's part of it is he wanted to have the person who looks at this image meditate on it and try to when you see the image, don't just go with the fear in the disgust, if that's how you're inclined to view it initially, but instead sit with that and understand it, face the fear, and
question it and look at it. Because in that way, his view and the view of some that followed him, was that if there is this true loving God and it's all encompassing, it's like pan theism hence pan even in the satyr and representation too, but God would be in all and you can't look at these ugly things and bad things and not see God in that, and that God is loving and forgiving. In the end, when we all reach our true potential of unity, there will be no division between us, and we will all merge
into one. We will dissolve together and come together as one androgynous hybrid creature that transcends all our definitions.
And I mean, if you say.
It, it sounds kind of like a little cuckoo, But you can also see how some people would look at that and say, that's beautiful, and especially when you look at over time the political messaging and things that kind of came about, and who then started to use it as their moniker. So you see bapha Met come about in this time. Then it kind of fizzles out because people get busy and do other things and they're not so worried about the true Catholicism of Levity and Baphamet.
But the symbol gets a new life in the nineteen sixties when people were kind of thinking the same thing. They were like, we need to dissolve, we need to start over. We want revolution, free love, we don't want barriers, We're just we want to be free. And so there's this thing called the occult revival and they look back and they.
Get excited about the occult you start.
You can see this on Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club band the cover where you can spot in all the different celebrities so to speak. There's Aleister Crowley, and so the Beatles were in d Alister Crowley.
There was a lot of this new.
Idea of looking at these old ideas, and Bapphamet emerged as this amazing symbol of all of these things, and of course socialism, and then the Church of Satan gets a hold of it and says, hey, this is what we're going to have for our logo, and it just kind of takes a life of its own. And now it's used often to troll people in different situations, but
under the guise of freedom of speech. And I'm not saying that that isn't even accurate or it's just it's just to understand the world that we live in, you have to understand that people are using these symbols and maybe trying to troll people, maybe trying to you know, use it for these other purposes. And I think what's interesting to consider is that the symbol in and of itself is just a symbol.
It's just an image and.
What we bring to it and what we put into that and how we believe that's what gives it life. And so it is sort of a living object, a living symbol, but we have if you don't like it, you can choose to not give it that energy. Because I know a lot of people have been very upset. Even with my book, I had some speaking engagements that were canceled because of it.
I mean, evil archaeology no, Bapha Met.
Yeah, because they there it's such a divisive it's such a divisive figure, and so yeah.
It's it's it's like they think you're a devil worshiper.
Yes, they definitely think that I'm promoting devil worship through this book, as opposed to just saying, okay, look, there is the symbol that we see in like rock organized like like like rock musicians will use it, edgy things
will use it. Also, the Knights, templar, the You know, it's there's this long history of this enigmatic symbol, and to know that it's been associated with what we may think is the worst of humanity, like demonic things and death and destruction, but it's also been associated with some of the best, like the ultimate love of God and forgiveness and wisdom. It's like, how can these things all coexist in one symbol? And well, I guess the symbol speaks for itself because it is the unity of opposites.
We're going to take a short break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guests. Today, Doctor Heather Lynn, discussing her new book Baphamet, revealed will rejoin you shortly. My guest today is the always interesting doctor Heather Lynn. She's an archaeologist and has done filled research in her past. She is presenting a new book that she just completed and has published called Baphomet Revealed, which is an insight into the Templar Knights
of Europe. Well, I'm thinking about this right now, and of course Levy was the one, and you actually show this in your book where he actually illustrated his version of Baphomet. Is there a place where we evolve the image, perhaps to a new look and presentation.
That's a really great idea. I don't see nothing like that's been done, except for, as I mentioned, you see some more commercial.
Aspects of it.
So maybe people try to make it look cute like a San Rio character and they put it on a little kids T shirt.
But I mean I did a search. I did a search on the web, and the bafo met is standard. It's this goat with a human body, and it doesn't change. It's you know, it hasn't evolved at all.
No, no, it hasn't, and so maybe it's time to believe it. Any artists out there looking to reimagine Baphomet that might be an interesting thing to do.
Maybe.
Uh. Yeah, so maybe maybe that's what we need, something a little friendly or something happy.
Because it just stands for such you know, people have such a horrible feel for it. Talk for a minute. In the research that you did during these UH trials, these UH trials of the Templar Knights, did the Baphomet topic come up? Of course, these guys are under serious stress uh and perhaps torture.
Ah.
This is the only way that you were able to find that they were using this sacred occult UH science I'll call it. Do they talk about anything that's a positive or is it all like? Yeah, I agree, I I used this. I was, you know, not praying to God and uh, you know, holding the cross, I was breaking the cross and I was, you know, and pray and studying Baphomet.
That's that's a good question, because yes, it was. There were accusations that they were worshiping the idol, that in and of itself was bad because it's idle worship. But what they were, yes, and so, but what they were doing in those worship sessions that also came into question. It was the they were accused of having initiation rights, so they had.
A secret order.
And this is sometimes where the connection between secret societies and templars kind of merge, because it has this idea behind it that they had initiations and different degrees of initiation, that they had to go for a particular right or do a humiliation ritual or who knows what I mean. The accusations have been all over the place, but in the actual transcripts it does accuse them of having sexual impropriety.
One of the things was that they were made to kiss the.
The anus we'll say, of the animal, the goat, kissed the anus of perhaps the cat, if they were being accused of the cat.
But also, you know, some people were like, sure, that's what we did.
No, we didn't do that, that's not And so the other accusation that was a little more plausible if if that was that they were accused of having to kiss the anus of the person above them in the degree, so like showing deference, like showing humiliation.
So it's you know, where we get this idea of like, you know, you can kiss my ass like that.
That's where this idea comes from, is that is an old sort of ritual kind of thing. Whether or not they did that is, you know, who's to say they did say yes. Some of them said yes, we did that, some of them said no, we did not do this. Some of them said again, no, it was to this cat, or it was this whatever. But that's what makes it
so difficult to know the actual tr truth. We can kind of surmise, I think, some general idea that what they were being accused of was sexual impropriety, blasphemy and heresy as well as yes, you mentioned the spitting on a cross, or taking the Lord's name in vain or denying Christianity.
This was something that.
Carried a little bit more weight, and it is quite possible that the Templars did do that and could have done that. But it gets a little more complicated when
it comes to the cultural connections with that idea. So if they so, for instance, if they were practicing Islam in a mystic sense, there was this notion that in that belief set that if you did something sinful, you could be forgiven for it if the sin was in the name of God, if you were doing it, whether it was to honor God or under some sort of duress, like you had to do this to survive or keep your family alive, and so there was like a loophole that said you can sin and do whatever. That was
a newer idea to those templars. That was just not an option in the sort of Christian ethos. So for them, if they had been enculturated in such a way that for whatever reason, to show their adherence to a transcendent God as opposed to the Church as a structure or a dogmatic religious system, they could have in theory, done those blasphemous things like spit on a cross or whatever to show that they were desecrating the symbols of the structure and the authority as opposed to the actual God.
And so there is this little argument that has been said in the scholarship that suggests, yeah, and one.
Thing I wanted to ask you real quickly. Were these monks ordained in the sense of the Catholic Church, which would make these practices even more damaging to their to their faith.
They they weren't in the in the traditional sense in the beginning, uh, because of their call to the crusade. It was anybody who felt that they were inspired to go out there, pick up a sword and fight.
Could they were maybe anointed on the on the on the battlefield with a quick you know, cross on the head or.
Something pretty much.
But they were ordained as the order itself, so but they were kind of because of their actual geographic distance and their own power that they had, they didn't really have to do a lot to legitimize their power. They were technically as an organization ordained, but if you were a member, you would be more concerned with going through these rights of initiation. So you were answering to the templars themselves.
Well, let me ask you. I can't remember the name of the lead templar, but a number of these people were burned, it burned at the steak because they did such blasphemous things to the to the thought of the church, to the you know, I mean heresy and idol worship, things that are considered evil, and I think there I can't remember the name of the of the the head of the templars at the time.
But Jacques de Malay Malay, Yeah, I mean it.
Was three or four of them were burned at the cross at the stake.
Yeah, yeah, they were, and uh they really.
You could you could make the argument that it was done so to punish them for the heresy and all of that. But you know the fact that they had all the power that they did and the money that they did. It's unclear as to whether or not it was just that or maybe just a combination of those things, or maybe they went hand in hand and think that, you know, maybe they got all of this money so that they maybe they got all this money because they were doing these so called demonic or evil things.
It's hard to say.
Yeah, but that's the origin of our fear or superstition surrounding Friday the thirteenth, because that was the day, October thirteenth, thirteen oh seven that they were condemned and put to death.
Oh really, yeah, amazing.
So now it's always a it's a perpetual bad luck day because that's when they.
Were Do we know how much King Philip the fourth of France owed them?
That would sue right off the top of my head.
I'm not.
I don't know, but it is. I think it is, if I'm not mistaken.
It is.
There are estimates, so I think it's a knowable thing, but I don't have those numbers.
Off the top of mind.
It must have been a lot of money, like it was a lot.
Of money, and maybe even so much that we wouldn't know the full number because of the pride involved in having to admit that that much was owed. So we may never know the actual number because you know, having to give up that much power. Well, you see how it didn't work out well for the templars.
Would you say that the bapha met was a regular ritualistic practice there was some combination of perhaps meditation followed by a short fast followed by some oral tradition that made up a practice.
Quite possibly, Yes, if you think of how they were monks and they had a view of an aesthetic life, they had an understanding of that sort of lifestyle and commitment. So I would imagine intertwined the practice with fasting with chance meditation of course, as you mentioned, and so but again I would just caution anyone to when they're imagining this to separate the elphis Levey version of baham At from what it is that they were actually worshiping, because we don't really know, and they did.
It could could have been a floating head for all we know.
It's really it's kind of one of those things where I'm almost more curious. And after I wrote this, I was a little more curious about finding out and going much further back and seeing if there's any way in any kind of understanding of what it was that the templars themselves could have been worshiping. Why the floating head? What is is this just something made up under duress
or you know, what is it exactly? So there's a big leap between what it was they were accused of worshiping versus Baha Met as we understand it today, and I in the book, I do have a picture of an illuminated manuscript where there was the drawing of what it was they were worshiping. And yes, it's a strange head, but it does have an association with John the Baptist
and the hit and him losing his head. And so some people have suggested to based on Baphomet and the Baptist connection, that this idea that they were worshiping ahead might carry more weight because they were perhaps following this gnostic sect that believed that John the Baptist was a primary figure to be worshiped, and so they might have
been worshiping or doing something like that. But either way, what we do know is they were doing something that was not considered the dogma of the Catholic Church at the time, and so.
I yeah, it's funny that you talk about that there's so much mystery behind the templars, and you know Oak Island, and there's the burial of treasures around the world, and it's like it's spun into infinity. And yet what you have shown us here in this great book is that there's a lot more to them, a lot more to consider when it comes to these occult practices. And yet we really don't know exactly what those practices are, do we?
No, we really don't. There there are some occult writings.
I would say it's not a complete loss, because I do believe that some people have some documents that may give us more clues. But a lot of those documents have been carefully guarded. They're in private libraries, they belong to secret societies, and so access to getting in there is sometimes available, but often limited as well, and it depends on who's looking and all of that, sort of like the Vatican Archives.
I'm sure I would bet anything.
I want to know that if you want to know what they were actually worshipping, I would just bet anything that the Vatican Archives would have a complete, complete list.
On Okay, well this is I'm going to pin you down a little bit, Heather. I want your interpretation, based on this book, what you think they would practice? What were they because when I the way you describe it, I think it's a form of enlightenment that perhaps they were seeking to transcend their level of consciousness, maybe moving into another layer or a level where they could gain this esosteric knowledge, you know. And it doesn't have to
be magic. Of course, magic is a nice word to use, but it's more of a conscious evolution.
But what do you say if I had to be pinned down and said, okay, what is it that you believe? I actually believe what they were doing was cultivating some level of consciousness that was based in mysticism, and not just any mysticism, but the perennial mysticism that has been passed on since before written history, sort of like an ancient shamanism, you know, using all those words again back to like the mask or the you know, using these
terms to describe the phenomena. If I say shamanism, it may conjure up ideas of somebody in a cave doing X, Y and Z, and that's valid. However, what is it that they're doing something that is shared beyond all of these different belief sets and cultures. It is this desire to go inward and to commune with something greater and to ascend and transcend your current existence to become one.
And people can do this through different means. They do it through what's called orgiastic behavior, so like drum circles, dancing together, partying, feasting. However, they do it through meditation, they can do it through taking substances to alter their consciousness. There's many different ways. There's holotropic breathing, and there's you name it. We've had fasting another great one. But you have all of these different techniques that everyone seems to
have tapped into. And I think that over time people have understood that there is a great power to this. There is a for lack of a better word, magic to it. This is something that Levy talks about himself when he talks about the astral light, and this is Levee gets a lot of attention for his drawing of Baphomet, but what he's really really known for is this idea of the astral light, the light within us, and cultivating
that and understanding it. So this notion that we're light beings that were made of light, that we see the light, that we're trying to reach this light. It is another constant that you see through all of these different belief sets. So I think the Templars caught onto this, and they did so because there is an element of this in Christianity. There's Christian mysticism. It is not a religion void of this at all. Jesus was a great teacher. All of
this stuff was relevant to them. So there is there that is a path to transcend, transcending and opening up
the light and all of this. But I think when they encountered other belief sets, they saw the similarities and they saw perhaps that when you pull back all of the exoteric and you go and you see the beneath layer, that it's similar and that there is a magic, there's a power there, and it's what is sometimes called the perennial philosophy, or it's sometimes you know, the one thing that can bring us together again, even with the Baphomet,
you see this notion of coming together unity. And so I happen to think that what they did was they stumbled upon this idea that is the underpinning of all religions. That's the spiritual component of it. And it can be expressed through ideas like gnosticism, or through Kabbalah, or through Sufi Islam, or any of this. And that's not to say that one religion's better or worse so that they're
all the same. They're all different and unique. However, I think they stumbled upon what it is that brings us together as opposed to what tears us apart. And it's not something that's relegated to the past. It's something that people are currently understanding and looking at through consciousness studies and through all of these efforts to transcend the dogma and get in touch with that greater ineffable being, whatever it may be.
We can do that by going.
Within, like you said, through meditation, sometimes using altered substances. Some of us can do that by going to a church or having a meeting with people like a Quaker meeting,
I mean, every kind of denomination, everything like that. It's not to dilute those practices, but I just think it is that they came across this like esoteric and hidden wisdom, and it's very powerful, and so it stays secret, and then it's sort of like in the UFO disclosure world, where it's UFO UFO and then later it's UAP and it's like, but what are we talking about? And we can change the names all day, but we all know we're talking about something, and we kind of know what we're talking about.
So whether we call them.
Angels, demons, jin aliens, what have you. I think that I think the Templars stumbled upon a deeper hidden truth.
God. I wish somebody would find a treasure trove of some of their literature somewhere, so we.
You know, the hidden I'm working on it. I'm working on it.
Well, you got to take a trip to Jerusalem to do it, you know. Other than that, maybe find somebody's uh antique stash and.
They here's places, there's places some people.
I've been contacted before by people who claim they have these great, you know, things that had been passed down in their family.
And so there's there are.
People who feel that they were the inheritors of the Templar treasure and wisdom and all of this. And so I think that the evidence may be scattered out through many different places, including the United States. There's a lot of Templar mystery here in the United States as well.
Amazing the books called Alpha met revealed. My guest today's been doctor Heather Lynd. This book just came out a couple of weeks ago. Right, Yeah, so it's on Amazon or any place you get your books.
Give us your website, doctor Heatherlind dot com. It's dr heatherlin dot com.
Yeah, it's really easy, and her her website's great, it's up to date, and the Heather's got her hands and all kinds of great stuff. So hey, much success on this. This has been fun and uh, you still leave the door open, uh for the mystery of the templars in this work. It's even more fascinating. I can see why so many people are like, I got to learn more about.
The templers just cross the surface.
You did, you did? So hey, real fun and uh much success.
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
One thing I found was interesting about this Baphamet symbol, and you know it is recognized as the symbol of the devil or hell or anti Christ. Perhaps if you're a religious person, is the symbology that the templars were looking at. And also perhaps there is power and we
didn't get into this with Lynn. As a reiki person, we use certain symbols to increase energy, increase power, increase healing flow through a body when we're giving a treatment or doing a distant treatment, which which is where you don't have to have the person in front of you, but you can send energy over distances. And if bapha met is as ancient as is Linn has found Heather has discovered, then perhaps using the symbol brings something out.
Maybe it can open doorways, maybe it is a And we don't talk enough about the occult when we speak of the Templar Knights. So I'm just wondering if there's other aspects of this that we just are now beginning
to understand. The templars are fascinating, and you know, people like Scott Walter and others that we've had on the show really get into the templars big time, and it's all typically about treasure Oak Island, the Bury treasure of the Templars, the templars landing in the United States, perhaps Bury treasure there. I mean, there is buildings, and there's structures, and there's stonemasonry that isn't attributed to the templar. So there's much much more than just the physical when it
comes to these guys. And we're always caught up in our Internet and our Wi Fi is beating our brains and covering us with this energy. But when we don't have that, your brain can actually fixate on other things, you know. And I think using symbology in the same manner that we use it in RANKI can create things,
can manifest things. And so when we talk about magic, and we haven't talked enough about magic in the temples, but there could have been spells and other data that is al chemical, not just converting silver to gold or copper to gold, but perhaps other techniques for manipulating matter.
And I have to wonder if this is also manipulating humans, you know, not so much like voodoo where you put pins in them and you control them, that matter, but maybe well the classic is love potions, but maybe using symbology you could other you could also control other aspects of physiology. So something to think about, something to consider. Hey, if you're enjoying Earth Agents, please consider becoming a subscriber. For as little as five dollars a month, you can
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We have all kinds of thank you gifts, including some of the new authors, some of the new books that you hear about on Destiny and here on Earth Ancients, and those are all digital format, and we also have a number of unpublished interviews as well as galleries, all kinds of thank you gifts for your participation and so we appreciate it so again. To become a subscriber, go to Patreon that's PA t R e o N dot com, Forward Slash Earth Ancients and subscribe five, ten, fifteen, even
twenty dollars a month makes a huge difference. Is to thank you from you to us here on the program Patreon dot com Forward Slash Earth Ancients. All right, that's it for this program, And when I think my guest today, doctor Heather Lynn, and the release of her new book Baphomet Revealed, and as always our team of Gail tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock, all right, take care of be well, and we will talk to you next time.
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