Welcome to Destiny.
Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. You know, I love my phone and I love the Internet. I can't get enough of TikTok and these other streaming formats. And they're time They're very time consuming. You can watch the YouTube or TikTok for hours. I'll sit in front of the my phone for hours just watching the latest postings. And you know, I mean, I have my own postings for Earth ancients, but what is going on with that? It's very,
very time consuming. And I got to tell you, I think it's beginning to affect people because people.
Don't dream anymore.
And this is really critical factor mental health. If you don't have good dreaming consciousness, if you're not able to sleep long enough and get deep sleep rem sleep rapidi move is sleep, then your ability to go deep into
your dreams is really compromise. Hey, this is Cliff, your host of Destiny, and this week we're talking about lucid dreams and the ability to dream in a level where you are processing your day, you are looking to the past, you're looking to the future, and you are coming up with problem solving dreams that you can use in your current reality and for a number of years I've had a dream journal where I am able to write down dreams that I had and shift into deeper dreams. But
I am not one to do lucid dreaming. And this is something that's very critically important. And lucid dreams require a deeper level of rest, and I don't think I am quite ready for for lucid dreams yet. But I will say this in our guest program, who is a new book, will talk about techniques where you can actually rest during the day and as you're resting, you're shifting into that deeper level that where the lucid dreams actually
began to unfold. The other thing that is of great interest to me is that today we talk about our ancestors dreams and ancient people two thousand plus years ago, the Babylonians and the Egyptians were able to dream and actually chronicle their dreams. In fact, in some cases the dreams were used as prophecy for events that were coming, for personal events and so on. It also crosses over into the indigenous side of things. Dream dreams were used
as forms of vision quests. You want to to a dream, and because they didn't have the interference of all this WiFi. I think people in past generations were able to sell into the possibilities of having dreams and actually dreams that were lucid dreams. And this is what we're trying to talk about today, is getting into the state where you're having hyper hyper consciousness dreams, where they're so real it's
like you're actually living in a reality. And some people think that lucid dreaming actually is a shifting into a higher reality, not necessarily a higher reality, but a higher level of consciousness that you can actually unfold. So we're gonna look at a number of aspects of dreaming today and give you step by step guidance of walking into and shifting into higher levels of dreams. So today we're talking about dreams and the program is programming your lucid dreams.
And my guest is von Breshner. The Earth Ancients Guatemala Temple Tour December first through the twelfth.
As you know from my work, one of the main functions of the tembuls is out of state, so we can really reprogram morself, We can manifest different things in our lives. There is also an opportunity for healing, so there is so much that we can do when.
We have access see combining, you know, the left and right brain hemisphere approaches, or the more masculine semine.
If you like.
Knowing the science, doing measurements, understanding the electromagnetism and the spiritual technology of these temples, and then having the experiential side. I'm doing all the spiritual work offside.
Is just like a very holistic, complete way to interact with the temples.
That's doctor Lydia de Leong, our host for the upcoming Sacred Pyramid Tour in Guatemala December first of the twelfth. This is a rare opportunity to work with harmonics and the energy behind these pyramids. We only have a few
places left. This is going to be a very rare opportunity to engage with the local shaman archaeologists who have been studying pyramids for decades, and opportunities not only to interact with the pyramid to lyrics that are available, but also sit, stand, walk and climb a variety of pyramids throughout Guatemala. For more information on this wonderful tour, go to earthacients dot com forward slash Tours looking for the banner and click it. If you have any questions whatsoever,
Send me an email. Send it to Earth Ancients the number fourth LETTERU at gmail dot com, and.
I will get right back to you.
Join me on the special tour December first through the twelfth again. For more information, Earthancients dot com Forward slash tours. Hey, it's Labor Day weekend and that means getting together with friends and barbecuing. Something else you might consider is a bourbon on the rocks. I was recently introduced to Chattanooga Whiskey, a Tennessee based distillery, and they're Bourbon ninety one. These guys are alchemists too. They have a whole selection of
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That's Chatnoogle Whiskey dot com. I have said I made lucid dreaming now for over twenty years and have found it fascinating. I can't say I'm an expert at lucid dreaming, but today we have an expert. And the reason why we're having the return of our guest is that he's written a very very not only a very very good book, but he actually touches some of the ancient versions of lucid dreaming and we're going to hear all about it today.
My guess, my returning guest, is von Braschmeller, and he is a I mean not only he's an author, but he's written in a couple of very good books. The book we're talking about today is called Programming your Lucid Dreams, how to self direct dreams to achieve your goals and access hidden knowledge and lucid dreaming, and we'll learn more about. To say, lucid dreaming is a bit more challenging than simple dreaming, because when you're lucid dreaming, it's almost like
you're in a form with reality. And like I mentioned before, I've done regular dreams and done dream journaling, but lucid dreams are a different animal. And this is why we have vn On so hey, welcome to Destiny.
How you doing good?
Thank you, Cliff, It's good to be back with you.
All right, Vin, let's talk real quickly. What is lucid dreaming over simple basic dreaming? Why is it lucid dreaming so unique?
Well, there's a long history of what we call dream work, and this is serious streaming. This is dreaming in reality and not simply playing back memories that you filed away in your mind and you keep sifting through them. The simple definition is that you're consciously aware of being in the dream. Furthermore, you're consciously aware in the dream so that you can react an act in the dream, as an act of participant. In short, it's a learning experience.
And my approach to lucid dreaming, since I first had one in nineteen eighty and long to have more, was to what was to set up dreams as vehicles for learning and exploring and reaching new levels of conscious awareness. So I think the fact that you're consciously aware in your dream and that you're empowered in your dream, that's an important aspect because along with consciousness goes empowerment and awareness.
So can you tell us or do you remember that first lucid dream that you had, because you know, something must have happened, either you were doing a practice, or you had a trauma, or you were taking some psychedelics.
I've never done that, and I never encouraged anybody to take that short approach to what we'll call.
Your vision questing.
Yeah, it is just a very short road, and it can be a misleading road, as.
You mean psychedelics taking yes, yes, as any of the great.
Masters in the East would tell you, Yeah, you could do that, but it's like better to throw them in the river, you know, because they're not trustworthy. So anyway, my first experience that I remember it like it was yesterday in a sense. It was was in the winter of nineteen eighty and I was snowed in on Mount Hood. I might have said this on your show before, but I'll get to the point. I was snowed in and I had no power, I had no heat, I had no plumbing. It was all frozen. I had no food.
My car was lost. I couldn't find it. I was poking around with a long broom handle. I was totally snowed in, and I said, you know what, that's okay, I'll just start reading and meditating. And after a long day of meditating and reading, and most of my books were Eastern spiritual science, but not entirely, A lot of were shamanic, I flopped back on my bed and I hit a vertebrae, a high vertebrae. I won't say which one, or everybody will try to do this because this does actually trip you out.
And I was off in a lucid dream.
Now I know it was a lucid dream and not just an unconscious mind floating, because it was I was consciously aware.
In the dream.
I saw myself lying on the bed. I could accurately see in detail everything below me that was physical. I, however, was not physical. I was in a non physical energy body floating above the bed.
Higher and higher.
And I said, how can I go? And I said, this is great. I've heard of this, I said, I've read about this. So I start floating and I said, can I go through the roof?
Indeed? I could?
Could I go above the tree line? Indeed I could? Could I go higher than the hundred foot fir trees in front? Because I lived on mountain in Oregon?
And I could?
And I looked down and everything got dark and small, and I thought, this is great, but I don't know where I'm going. I don't know how to get there, and I don't know how to react when I get there, so I'd better go back. I hope I can go back. And I said, how do I go back? And I swear to God, Cliff, I thought of Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. I didn't click my ruby red slippers, but I said, I thought, there's no place like home.
And I was instantly back in my body, which has always told me you can always go back to your physical body because you're karmically, energetically magnetically connected to your body, and so yeah, you just think back to your body, in your back, there's no worry. So after that I started to read really in great detail all of my books on yoga, and I thought, how do the great masters leave their body? How do they have these profound dreams?
And I found out it.
Wasn't just them, It went back thousands of years. I found out there were like three dozen references in the King James Bible, Old Testament and New Testament where people would have profound dreams. These were vivid dreams, colorful dreams, detailed dreams, impactful, meaningful, powerful dreams of significance, and they
weren't just memories. Now a common dream is just a memory that you can't shake out of you your head, and you can't get that song out of your head, and it's because your body really isn't but the sleep, and you're just kind of playing the old tunes over and over in your head. And you couldn't resolve these questions when you were wide awake. Now that you're half asleep, well, it's even worse. So these are often called nightmares or
night sweat dreams. Common dreams sometimes interesting, usually perplexing and troublesome. But I had this wonderful dream, and I thought to myself, how on earth do people ever return to a dream? And how do they how do they expand on the dream and continue it once they've returned to it? And I started reading Deep, Deep, Deep into it, and I dream, I dreamed, I sort of like a dream. I started reading that there was a great interest in early yoga
and consciousness training. In fact, you might consider all of yoga consciousness training on three levels body, mind, and spirit. So you look at the my favorite book, the Yoga Sutras of Patanjuli. It is clearly outlined in three steps body, uh, spirit and mind, and I think mind mind a second, and spirits last. And in short, it trained you how to achieve postures and which we know is hatha yoga, which most people think is the way to get fit and stretch.
But it's more than that.
It's preparing yourself. And then you're preparing yourself. Cousinata said the same thing, prepare the physical for the outward journey. So the thing is then you then you go into the greater The greater journey is metaphysical and and this is kind of the second part of the book. And then if you want to go all the way through all those hundreds and hundreds of pages of you know, which are hundreds of years old, then you get to the last part, which is magical. And that's when I
hit the old mind. Because there are people who practice yoga training to the point where and this is kind of the area of the school of Raja Yoga where the Samadi mystics begin to train their young ones how to have profound experiences and journey beyond what we would say is is.
My time here? And now you know?
So they the first thing they will teach the Samadi students is how to do lucid dreaming. And when they get really good at lucid dreaming, then they'll they'll take them deeper down the path of yoga training so they can have great what what in some in and and Shamanism will here described as the outer journey or the vision quest. It involves getting into an altered state of consciousness. Uh,
that's why meditation works it very well. But I found that for many people it's hard to meditate deep enough to get into this what we call lucid dream state. And for them, I I I suggest self hypnosis frankly, because you know it's very similar. You know, you can train the body to go to sleep, bring the mind to go to sleep, and bring forward to your inner consciousness.
So when I started studying about the Samadi experience and the students in the East, I was fascinated because there was a huge tsunami that hit southern India and northern Indonesia a.
Few years back. You might remember it.
And I think it's called the Boxing Day storm, and they worried the Samadi masters. They worried about their young novices that they had put into lucid dreams. Now they would they would set them off on their dreams in the in the advanced students, while novices would go so deep into a lucid dream that they would stay there a long time and it was hard to bring them out. In fact, they wouldn't try to bring them out, They would wait for them to just come out.
I want to talk a little bit about the early part of your book where you describe how the Babylonians and the Egyptians actually recorded their dreams. How do we know that those dreams are lucid dreams? Was the description just incredibly detailed?
This is?
Is this how you incredibly yeah, incredibly detailed. You know, these people, the Babylonians and Assyrians, they were extremely good at keeping tablet records of what they did. Furthermore, a lot of the dreams were have been trans transferred to the Christian Bible. We know that there were Babylonian kings that would would have dreams and they would be interpreted at the time. I think I have an example here of Joseph who Joseph actually interpreted a dream.
Uh.
Yes, uh. Pharaohs in Egypt would would have dreams. The Babylonians would have dreams and and and and these are often reported in it's far back in the bibleist genesis that the idea that the god or or or a messenger, perhaps an angel would come and speak to them. So our earliest records, in fact, do come from ancient Babylonia.
Yeah, you mentioned Giglamesh. One give us an example if you can, of one of his lucid dreams that perhaps turned into a prophecy.
Yeah.
So the adventures of Gilgamesh, who had more fun, well, what a daring life.
So so the.
Story of Gilgamesh is is is like a dream diary.
You know.
He he recorded his dreams and they're told like, uh, you know the Arabian nights. Uh he he there were dreams of of building things and adventures and things that he would see, the temples that would be built.
Directions.
It's almost like in in in in in in our corner of the world. Uh, a Native American Shamans who would have visions and would report this to the people. You know, it was like it was yes, it was his personal dream, but they were like dreams of importance to the community, like building a temple is a good example.
Do you think that Giggle Mesh and these other examples were actually able to see in the future. Yeah, and so they were tracking events and activities that were far ahead of time.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think we see this today we go in for some reason, after you know, more than five thousand years of dream work with lucid dreaming, we don't have a lot of respect in our culture for lucid dreaming. And people will have prophetic dreams and they'll say I had a dream of the future. I dream what was going to happen in the future, and they will laugh and it would be like amusing, you know, But then when they come true, you know, we see
that this is happening. Yet today that people are going apparently into the future and seeing what is going to take place, coming back and reporting on it. So, yes, this is one interesting thing about lucid dreaming. There is no there is no fixed time. You can go back in the past and into the future.
I want you to talk a little bit about Native Indigenous people because it's almost like they are raised to induce lucid dreaming rather than just dreaming. It's like you have to have it's like part of a lifestyle. They are trained to move into that lucid state, and so they can begin having their own visions, their own as you call it, ahead of time, Yequesse.
Yeah, these people are really chosen. They're special people. It just between you and me, Cliff. It kind of bothers me today that people are getting certified to be urban shamans. I think it's it's interesting that a person could study this. I mean, I think it's fascinating and I've certainly tried to study it, but I don't claim to be a shaman.
I would never do that because these people were were often selected not just who they were, their their their birth, in their in their in their bloodline, but they often were people who were lame. The idea of the wounded healer makes a good representative for the people.
Uh.
The wounded healer is ideal to go out there and fight the journeys uh into the land of the unknown, because this really is a journey into the unknown.
We're leaving the known world.
To go into the unknown, like the hero's journey and and and the The shaman then would be a person who would be selected, not necessarily born and into the job and then and then trained through a period by the previous shaman to do this work and then trained to do what to do to enter into great uh trance like states which we might call like meditative states or self hypnosis, whatever you want to think of it a bit, but this would I had I had a teacher who did this, and he would go into a
deep trance very much like a shaman. And and then then uh this this this shaman would would go and would would would go forward into the future or back into the past to speak to as they would say, talk to the ancestors. They would go into the future to see what the future holds for my people, and then they would come back and report, you know. But
but moreover they would teach this. They were teachers as well, and they would teach others in the community and the tribe how to do this vision questing on a personal level. Your own personal vision quest might not hold great meaning for the community, but it holds great importance to your life direction.
Yeah, I like that. It's the earlier civilizations really cultivated dreaming much more than we do today. How do we know when we're because I dream, I dream fairly fair amount, and I try to keep a dream journal, How do we move into the lucid dream? How do we induce the lucid dream?
Yeah, I found that there were certain things that people wanted to go into lucid dreaming were just not conscious of or are doing. And one was they were not preparing the physical body and mind to go into a deep state of rest. And I call it a state of surrender. And this requires a lot of internal harmony. Think of the whole whole body. Picture the whole body,
the wholeness of you, which is body, mind, and spirit. Well, when you go into a state of rest and prepare yourself for a dream, it's not enough just to lie down in your bed, close your eyes and drift off because you're not because you're because you're still kind of back floating next to the dock. See, you're not really out there, you know. So so you need to actually get deeper into sleep. You actually need to physically put
your will your body to sleep. So sometimes when I find it hard to get there, and this was particularly true for me in the beginning, I started cribbing off of some of these wonderful books. And there are many books that you can get on self hypnosis that you you would actually physically focus on your attention on putting your feet to sleep, your legs to sleep, your corso to sleep, all like that, all the way to the top of the d then finally putting the mind to sleep.
The final stage, which is very difficult, is to reach a state of inner accord. Now in yoga training you talk about the mind is the slayer of the mind.
You know.
That is to say, your inner consciousness must slay your physical mind for you to have a greater conscious experience. But this is this is I'm not faulting the translation of the sandscript. I'm just saying that words can get in the way of truth. You're not slaying anything. You're reaching an inner chord harmony, a body minded spirit level of of of attunement.
And you.
Need to assure the physical brain, your mind, that it's going to be completely at rest, completely safe, and completely rested while it surrenders control for a brief time for a specific purpose, which is the dream, to your inner mind, your inner consciousness. And then at that point then your consciousness can come forward and take you on a journey. Until that happens, you have a backseat driver, and that's known as the little brain. Rending the whole big body.
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, Von Brosler, discussing his newest book, Programming Your Lucid Dreams. Will be right back. We're talking lucid dreams today and how to program them effortlessly with my guest today, Von Bristler. And this is a new book, a step by step guide to opening to more lucid dreams.
Is the samadi's training from the yoga sutras that you're Uh, it's the foundation of this work that you're presenting in this book. But is that a course of meditation, because I mean, I'm meditating for thirty years. Do meditators have an easy time to get into lucid dreaming.
Or nobody does?
Yeah, And that's the whole thing is that we're going to talk about some of the exercises in a minute. Yeah, that you suggest, But lucid dreaming is like a whole different animal.
Yeah, and yeah, you have to be dedicated to it and you have to actually work at it. Hence, traditionally this was called dream work. It wasn't dream play.
Or idle moments.
It was dream work and you you The ancient Egyptians, for example, learning from the Babylonian experience, they quickly developed dream temples, which was continued into the Greek, the classical Greek Greek era, and into the Roman. Even that there would be dream temples, there would be a dream attendant, there would be be a dream assistant that you would you would have somebody who would kind of coach you
and set up the experience. Now, setting up the experience then means that you have a place that's completely safe,
quiet and secluded. It is a place of peacefulness. And why this is to assure your physical self and your and your physical mind, which is always concerned with your safety and well being, that it's going to be okay during this brief period, that in fact, it's going to in in in exchange for surrendering a few moments of somewhat control, that it's going to be it's going to be rewarded by the greatest moments of restfulness and peace
that it's it's had in a long time. It's it's holding a grip on you so tightly that we're all kind of high strung.
So if somebody has trouble sleeping, that's not going to be a great candidate for a lucid dreaming because you're you're talking about being thoroughly rested. Uh, and so any fatigue is going to impede the whole processes in it.
Yeah.
Yeah, you want to become really good. It's slipping off, it's slipping away, you know, and to where it becomes very easy to where you could actually do this in a daydreaming. In daydreaming, where you can do this in an awaking dream. You could do it in a chair, you could, you could. You know, my power naps are off and now like lucid dreams, you know they could be very brief.
Uh.
It doesn't have to It doesn't have to happen at night during your sleep mode, when you're reclining in you in your bed. You could you could set it up to happen anytime, but you must be willing to surrender and open yourself up to the greater adventure.
Okay, before we get into some practical app implications, what can we accomplish in a lucid dream? What are some of the benefits of I mean, you talked about going forward and in your book. You describe going back into the past, which I find fascinating. But what are some of the things that an active dreamscape lucid dreamer can accomplish.
Yeah, I find it fascinating. I must confess. I use it for a lot of little practical personal things. But I know that there are great questions to be resolved. And this is the journey of the soul. This is where your soul, your inner consciousness, wants to take you. It needs to go out there and discover. It needs to be Odysseus on the raft. It needs to find the golden fleece it needs, it needs the vision quest.
It needs to find answers for you. It needs to take you out there to confront and open new doors and reach new horizons. And this is what life is. I mean, is life for you simply waking up and drinking coffee?
Well, I mean this is my day. But there's more.
There's more to it, you know, And I think all of us know this, that this life well spent is a life of growth and stretching. And so it is with our dreams. I'm so big on getting people to actually learn to do lucid dreaming because it is our great opportunity for personal discovery and insight.
You can't get.
This anywhere else, anywhere else, and it's available to every one of us if we're willing to set up a dream.
Can you give us a couple of examples of either students or noted dreamers who have chronicled and journaled what they have achieved in their lucid dreams. Perhaps somebody had an intention for some activity or bits of knowledge, or meeting somebody or and they had their lucid dream.
Well, there certainly are in the East a lot of a lot of visionaries that have reported their their journeys into the other worlds, other levels of reality that you know can be read about in Eastern spiritual science records. Uh, the virginneys of Swami sacha Ananda have been very inspirational to me. I think, I don't know if I should
bring this up, but but you can. You can also look to in Ick and car you can find uh that the original founder of that, Paul Twitchell writes about, if not his own experience, that of his teachers were likely maybe controversially, there are various people that have described where they've gone and what they've seen. Some of them are Native Americans like Sunbar very inspirational. I would I would say that the writings of Costinata are largely based
on LCID dreams. If you if you had mentioned Carlos, Yeah, yes, I'll never I'll never stop defending him because because his first book he submitted to us at Llewellen. Uh and I worked originally at Llewella in My first publisher was jewellan And and it was submitted to us in our publisher, Bless his soul, fine man. He said, not going to publish a grad student's field research.
That was his first book. Oh my god.
And I said, are you sure I have a feeling about this guy? He said, no, No, we start doing that, we'll get all these these dissertations, and I don't want to go that way. Well, okay, so now the rap on Cosinata is that all of his subsequent I think there were seven or eight books after the first, and they were all massive mega sellers, right, yeah, okay, they
they all sounded a lot like the first one. And in the controversy was that he couldn't substantiate that he'd gone to Mexico except as a grad student to study the effects of piote on on on natives in northern Mexico, as he did for the first book book, which starts the whole story right and then and then, but but then the story continues as though he's continuing his teaching
with these with these, with these masters in Mexico. So I would suggest to you that that Carlos began to just have uh uh lucid dreams of going to Mexico. You know, either that he was or he was just inferring what what would happen next in the training. And I think that would make him like one of the greatest metaphysical writers of all time if you just had this in his head and he could actually manufacture it.
It came from somewhere, you know. So I think that at some point we have to stop thinking about who is the messenger versus what is the message? The message is quite amazing.
Do you have any students that have been using your techniques, uh, and have reported back on their experience? Uh?
Yeah.
Various people have done this and they find it helpful U two to to actually follow. It's a step by step thing. Now, I don't I don't advocate that you sit there and read to yourself when you're trying to go into alusid dream. But you study the steps and then you just do it, you know, And don't don't worry if you're getting the steps on a sequence. I do it all the time, you know. Just just know that you know that there are various steps that would be helpful and and and put them into the equation.
So yeah, I know a number of people now. When uh I was out at the Omazing Institute in New York, I I tried the technique as best I could, like this somebodie students, UH did. And I wondered how long I could take a group of people that had been introduced to this over a period of just a week, and then after the end of the week, put them into individual dreams of their own choice, of their own direction.
In other words, I set them all up to have their own individual dreams, and I left them all at a room, and I wondered how many would like come out of the dream and you know, ten minutes or you know, thirty seconds or an hour, well, the whole day, the whole day, you know, and it's like at the end of the day, you know, I just said, like these people have to like leave the building and we have to lock it up, and somebody's been recording the session.
There's nothing said, you know, I said, God is and we have to go to dinner. And so I said, oh my gosh, what did I say to them when I set them up? How do I bring them out of it?
So you able, you're saying, you're you're teaching a course with the Omega Institute in New York. Yeah, and you did a lucid dream. Yeah, of course all day, of course, and people were systematically going into the lucid dreams. They all went off in a dream of their own direction. And they were gone there for several several hours.
Wow, and what?
And I sat there and I studied them, you know, I mean far across the room, mind you. But it's like I noticed their eyes did in twitch, their toes in twitch. Nobody coughed, you know, It's like they were just gone. And finally I remember, and I went, I said, returning to your bodies, now, returning to your bodies now, because it was the last thing and I should have remembered this that I said to them when I set them off, and I said, you're going to stay in
your lucid dream until I call you back. I'll go and I'll bring you back. And I said, oh my gosh, I should have written it down right. So but then then the funny thing is they all quickly, you know, without standing up. They all you know, bent forward and they're reclining positions because they were all on their back on the floor and they were all alert. They're all like wide awake. They weren't drowsy from having been sleeping
for hours. That was a strange thing. And they all wanted to talk about what they've seen and what they've done, because they all went different directions.
I mean, let me just stop you for a second. Von, I mean, you were the catalyst to to help the help these people drop into a lucid state. I mean that's you're talking. We're not talking about any psychedelics. You're talking talking about your inducement. It was amazing. I mean, what was it about that day that got you just, uh as such a talented lucid dream facilitator.
Oh, I don't think of talented at all. I mean I simply spent the first few days telling them about how to set up a lucid dream. And then and I talked about how you can go back into the past into the future. You could find the lost keys, you could you could you could view your past life or lives. You could look for lost people. Uh, you could many things. You could look for answers. If you had questions, you could you could search out answers.
You know.
I said, it's infinite what you do. So when I set them up on this, I said, today is a free day.
You're all going to go your own direction.
And they looked at me like, I said, you're all going to select your own dream. And I said, you all have been told and learned how to do this, and now the test is you're all going to go off on your own lucid dream. And and don't be confined that you're just going to be roaming the grounds here or you're just going to be in the here and now. You can go into the past, into the future, anywhere you want to go, you know, alternate realities, alternate worlds.
I don't care.
I said, you decide where you're going to go. I said, it's going to be a dream of your own making you decide where and when and what you're going to dream about. And that's that's the only thing. And so I got them started with with with you know, putting them to sleep. You know, I took them that far. And then then I said, and now the consciousness comes forward. And I said, now, when the consciousness comes forward, you're going to prepare an agenda of where you want to go.
You're going to visualize in terms of pictures, not words or sounds, but pictures where you're going to go and what you want to see and what you want to do.
I said.
It could be sketchy, yeah, and it's your own map. I said, but you need to form the pictures because this is how thought forms work. This is how our consciousness leaves us, leaves our body and go somewhere does something with pictures. And so then then they were all off. And it was amazing how quickly they all fell into it and how long they all stayed into it.
Are you just saying that everybody in the in the class was relaxed enough and went into a sleep state and were able to jump into the lucid dreaming.
It seemed to me that they were all deeply into a dream. I could see no physical signs that any of them were actually awake at any time during this entire day, and it's like to this, I just remark how amazing that was. But it also tells me how anybody could do this, because there were nineteen people in that room, not including me and the guy who was trying to record nothing because it sounds and there was
a wide variation in the people. There was a fellow there who was a professor of economics at New York NYU. There was somebody who was a real estate broker. There was somebody who was a dentist. There was somebody who was an assistant stage manager Broadway or off Broadway. They were all different. They were all really really different people, you know. And I remember at the very beginning, we had two people that dropped out. I said, this is going to be a week and I'm going to show
you how to actually leave your body in meditation. And before I got too far, we took a break and two of them left and they went to square dance, and I said, I lost two people. They said, yeah, you said you were just going to teach them how to meditate to leave the body. I said, well, there's a little more than that, I said, but okay, I said, square dancing is fun.
You know.
So we had nineteen people and and at the end we had a couple people that showed up late because they couldn't get there on day one, so we ended up with nineteen. But yeah, I mean, it's it's I mean, in a lucid dream, it might seem amazing that people could be gone three days, as in the case of the tsunami in India. It might be might be amazing that all these people at this little retreat in upstate New York could be gone all day in a lucid
dream with little training. But but, but, but anybody, anybody can do this.
And the amazing thing is time. Is it significant?
Because in a lucid dream, you could be gone on just a few clicks of the clock next to your bed. But you've lived a whole lifetime. I've done that, and you come back and say, I can't believe I was gone five minutes.
I lived a whole life in this other world.
And the reverse can be true.
You know, I'm fascinating.
Yeah, time is meaningless in the spirit realm, and that's what we're speaking about.
We're gonna take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves and we will return shortly with my guest today Von Brageler discussing his newest book, Programming Your Lucid Dreams, will rejoin you shortly. Mom. Broschelar has written three books on lucid dreams. The newest one we're featuring today is Programming Your Lucid Dreams. And we're getting into a step by step program that will guarantee you
lucid dreams. Let's talk real quickly on about and you've been giving us the step by step setup for the dreamscape. So the first thing is a quiet space obviously. And I don't know, did you have people bring blankets and pillows, their favorite pillows so they were comfortable when they.
Were laying down.
Yeah, but by the last day, that's that's what they were we're doing.
I mean they bring their favorite pillow or something.
Yeah, so so they can you can just recline. I think it's better when you recline on your back. First of all. I think it's better when your legs and arms are are extended a little bit. I think of the in yoga because I've done a lot of yoga training. The dead Man posed, but but just extended. Nothing crossing uh, no loose fitting clothing or no clothing, no jewelry. Take your glasses off, take your watch off, take your bracelet off, none of that.
Nothing. You know.
Don't cross your feet or legs. Sometimes I sleep with my feet crossed.
You know, it's like not on a lucid dream.
Yeah, you're fine. It's interesting because you say in here, focus your attention on putting the physical body to sleep, and then you're talking about this right now, start with your feet and work your way up to your head. If somebody has a problem sleepy, yeah, it's not gonna work. You have to be somewhat of a regular sleeper, don't you.
Well, this is what's interesting.
You know, people that get canked out, you know, they have amazing lucid dreams because the spirit leaves the body because suddenly, suddenly it's it's set free, you know, or or or people who are are in a comba, they'll have remembered things or people that that have like in an operation, I mean always recently, in a twelve hour operation. It's like you you can go a lot of places in twelve hours, you know. Oh yeah, but but but know that there's an inner side of what everybody knows
there's an inner voice in each one of us. Without getting into any kind of spiritual analysis, there's an inner you that that that that speaks to you and has your best interest at heart. And that's what we're talking about. I think a bit of spirit.
So talk about the next uh phase, which is deep rhythmatic breathing. Yes, until it becomes regular. Now what does what does that help? How does that does that kind of shift the consciousness a little bit?
Yeah?
Now, this this is going to actually this is part of yoga training that it just seems to fit handing glove here. It It actually opens up oneself to to let consciousness come forward. Uh it it It is not depriving you. I mean when we when we begin to do shallow breathing, I catch myself doing this now and then moments of stress. Uh there, there isn't a lot of great thought going on.
You know that.
You know you're just barely breathing. You know you've got you've got to actually begin deep rhythmic reading. I like, I like a breath uh in threes. Uh, I do uh three deep breaths. Hold it for the count of three, and then I expel it for three and as I begin it, I usually will think of of of of taking in the energy and the pure error around me, and then and then purifying it and blessing it as they take it inside and internalize it, and then I expel it with with my with my love and gratitude, uh,
onto the world. I think that getting into breathing exercises is almost as important as is and this is probably why people have trouble because they're they're really not relaxing, and this is very relaxing when you get into deep breathing and breathing exercises.
Yeah. Uh.
You go to the next phase, which is preparing map, and then you're saying, here, I'm just going to read the first of six sections, which is notice that your heightened consciousness is now racing while your body and analytical mind is at rest. Yeah, and so you're you're leaving the critical thinking mind you have everyday activity, and this other mind, the other level of consciousness, is you want to bring in.
Yeah, I mean, I mean you have to recognize at some point that your analytical mind, this little pocket calculator that runs her life, does a really good job for what it does, but there are limits to what it can do it. It is based, It is limited by its own frame of reference, its own memory bank. It is only as good as the information you put in. It's like a computer and nothing else. You can't speculate on the unknown. You know, it doesn't know where you
were before this life. It doesn't know what lies ahead of you. It doesn't know what you need, It doesn't know what's out there in the unknown world. There's only one part of you that does, and that's your inner consciousness. So it's very important to begin mapping by setting up.
The right part of you in charge.
So then you get to this state of consciousness that you're calling the dreams scape dream scape. And this is interesting what you write. Orient yourself to your presence there and your surrounding. That's really critical, isn't it That?
Really, it really is clip because you know otherwise you're not.
You're not aware that you're.
Truly in a lucid dream. You need to orient yourself so that you're consciously aware. And when you become consciously aware, then your full uh a set of conscious awareness opens up to you, and and and and that's a tremendous bank of resources to draw upon. It replaces all of your physical perceptions that you've left behind in the physical realm.
And so, I mean, I've heard different techniques like look at your hands or something, and I don't know what the significance of looking at your hands is, but yeah, that's a good bound that your physicality.
Yeah.
Now this confuses people because you say that in your in your lucid dream, the way that we're describing it here, it's a non physical reality. It is your subtle it is your consciousness on subtle energy body level, having left the body, So how would you have hands? So, I mean, I think the thing that the thing to think about is that that you're when you've left your your your your physical body behind, your astral double has has replaced it on the on the other level. So you have
what's called the etheric double. And the etheric double is somewhat representative or or a tissue copy, a transparent copy, if you will, of of of your physical being. But yes, yeah, yeah, the importance is that you you placed yourself there. I think the thing the important thing is to own uh, the experience, to own the environment, UH, to own up to the dream and to uh and and and to actually accept your your position there, so you're there. You
you're in this level of consciousness. If you have not intended to have an event or meet someone or go forward or backward, you're kind of left to whose decision on what you're going to do in that state. Yeah, I mean you're not always going to find what you're looking for in a lucid dream. I mean you have a wish list which you've created with pictures on your agenda, and then you've used it for mapping to get there right, and then then you've gone into the dreamscape and you
might not find what you wanted. Now, there are various reasons why can be disappointing, sure, but sometimes spirit knows better what you're ready for. I mean, some of the things I wanted my first dreamscapes were insanely grandiose. I was called back by a dream teacher. I said, this is this is not good. You know, we're were going to curb you for a while.
You know, what do you mean a teacher, a dream teacher or a physical teacher.
I had a dream teacher for a while. Somebody would actually help me in my dreams. And for a while she would would would help me h go places until I felt a little more secure going on my and and people say, well, did you conjure her? And I said, well, that might sound like it, but I didn't. I visualized her the same way I visualized where I want to go in my dream. So I visualized what kind of a kind of attributes I would need in a dream
teacher or a dream guide. And then and then I refined it to where I could actually see her face, and then and then she was there. And then ultimately, like all good manifestations in visualization, I actually visualized actually having having found her. And then, indeed, finally when one night, when I rose above my bed, above the cabin, above the tree line, into the dark sky in the snowy mountain where I lived, I reached out my hand and
there she was. She grabbed my hand, and I was no longer flailing about aimlessly like a fool in the night sky. But I had someone who said where would you like to go? And I said where can I go? She said no, she said, it's important to have the right questions, said the important. The questions, she said, at this point are more important than the answers. Wow, I said, whoa, whoa?
She said, So choose wisely, and so I said, well, I would like to go someplace place that would would would show me things that that would be profound and and I could learn. So she started ticking me on walk through the woods. She said, now, you could do this during the day, she said, but we'll do it right now, and we'll show you how everything in the in the woods will teach you everything you need to know. She said, nature is our teacher, and this was her orientation,
this was who she was. So this is the kind of teacher I got. So, so this is what we did. We walked in the woods, and we would spend hours looking at things crawling into holes in the in the in the in the woods and in the burrows, and hidden passages in the trees. And then she'd say, now what does this mean? What is this tullis? And I said, well, that little squirrel found a place to live. She said, you're not looking deep enough. She said, there's always more.
She said, until you could ask the right questions, I can't help you find the right answers. And finally she turned me over to somebody else. She said, this is my teacher. He has more patience than I do. He will help and I said, but but I want you. I want you, And she said no, she said it's not working out. So I mean, but she was really good for me, and and and and Yeah. I think it's good to have a dream teacher.
I like that idea that you didn't place that in your book, but a helper dream helper is great idea.
Yeah.
Yeah, As we're concluding, von, what should people be trying to achieve when they get to the point where they can do regular lucid dreaming. I've heard some people will use it for problem solving, creating scenarios where they're you know, perhaps interacting with somebody in a relationship and learning how the person will react or whatever. But talk a little bit about the the benefits of having the ability to lucid dream.
Yeah.
So I think in a full blown lucid dream escape the way I practice it, I go somewhere and I do something.
It's a great adventure.
I call it the inner journey of the hero within. But it is your consciousness that takes the journey. Now, if we look at different ways that people analyze remote viewing, we can understand there are different aspects to lucid dreaming as well. Dreaming could be simply that you remain in a fixed location and you set up the lucid dream, but you don't actually leave. It's not an out of
body experience. But the consciousness nonetheless reaches out, reaches out, And this is one of the great things of consciousness is that it doesn't need to go somewhere to see something. It can reach out like antennis, and your consciousness can reach out and find the answer. So I think finding answers to complex problems is wonderful. I always do this when I'm stuck on a book, and I will say, gosh, where do I go now? And I'll just think of that.
I'll think of that, and then I begin to visualize that in terms of pictures, like what's chapter twelve?
Where do I go? What do I do?
And and I'll dream it. You know, sometimes somebody will come and say.
You know, this is what I would do.
I'll get little helpers. They'll come say this is what I would do? You know, And and the answers are there's a infinite number of bits of information out there. All of these thought forms are all like dancing around, and all you need to do is put up your antennas, your consciousness and connect you know it's connecting to it is a vertical alignment of one's consciousness.
Uh. I really like the fact that you know you're this is a Hindu focused type of lucid dreaming, which is very ancient, and it might be the reason that you are able to get a room full of participants to actually lucid dream without except for the square answers, Well, they weren't meant to be in your class to be No, no, no, no.
Yeah.
So hey, real great having you on the program. The books called programming your Lucid Dreams. My guess has been Von Braschlar. Uh, give us your website and how people can get a hold of you. Give us the details of your social media.
Sure, it's a von Braschlar website dot com.
Oh that's simple enough.
Very very easy. Yeah.
Yeah, are you on social media? Are you on like Facebook and Facebook?
Yeah?
Facebook, backslash v Braschlar okay, And I have a couple of pages there. One is when it's for one of my books, and one of them is for my my my fiction books.
I just a fiction as well.
Right, And this is a third of your lucid dreaming books. Isn't it.
Yeah?
Yeah, And then it was in the middle there there was a scroll. It's like, what a scroll?
And is it now available on Amazon? Yes, it is, so it came out in July.
Yeah, yeah, perfect it end of June. Very end of June.
Oh.
Very good.
Okay, really easy to read, and it's a good book to I mean, you make it sound so easy. I'm almost jealous that you can kind of close your eyes and get into a locid dream. So I am definitely gonna give some of your techniques a try, especially because it's Hindu bass and you're a meditator, and it might if I follow your instructions, it might be easier for me.
I hope I didn't put too many steps. I know there's a lot of steps, but if you look at that, you look at the Hindu approach, the Sutrus, I'm really complicated and I wanted to get away from.
That that is complicated breathing.
You're right, it gets you.
Hey much success, Vonn, and thanks for joining me.
Thank you, Cliff.
Good to see you.
You know, I was looking at this book and there's a lot to really like about it, but I personally what I'm laying down it would be great to have a guided audio version of the book or a Lucid Dreaming audible program so that you can actually listen and go into the state. So I mean, I'm still working on Lucid Dreaming the depth of it, and I'm hoping to get somewhere soon, so I'll let you know how I do. But check out the book Programming Your Lucid Dreams.
It's been out for a couple of months, so you can get.
It out Amazon.
Hey want to mention we do tours. We got one coming up in December. It's our Sacred Pyramids of Guatemala December first to the twelfth. Lots to really like about this. Not only doctor Lydia and Artural de Leon will be our guest, but we also have a number of shaman archaeologists and it's just a fantastic tour to consider. For more information, go to earth Ansents dot com forward slash
Tours check it out. Any questions whatsoever hit me up, go to Earth Ancients the number four of the letter you at Gmail and I'll get right back to you. This is way. This is a great way to end the year. All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest today von Broschler and his new book Loser Dreaming. As always the team of Gail tour Mark Foster, Faisal Bavar.
You guys rock.
All right, Take care of you well and we will talk to you next time. The ban
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