Destiny: Miles Neale, Return with Elixir

of Destiny, and today we're going to talk about energy trauma and how to work with these energetics in the coming age. If Kelly Yuga is ending, that means dwar Pa Yuga is beginning. So we're gonna get some positives of the energy in the next thousands of thousands of years. Bleeding into our current existence. And what's really tough right now is my son generation x Z and so forth. These younger generations are really being challenged with the current

society status quo. This is the disruption of of the economy, the disruption of society.

if it's chaotic. It's hard to work for some people. It's hard to work in big groups.

student in high school, terrible, I think. I when I graduated, I had like a C C plus average or whatever. And the only way I got into college wasn't wasn't because of my grade point average. It was because I had had a pretty good portfolio. And I transferred from high school to a Long Beach state which had an amazing animation department and illustration apartment, and I studied animation. And it's the same school that Stephen Spielberg went to,

and their animation department was fabulous. Back then, they had what they called it was one of the only colleges that had the multi plane camera, which in those days was you would have multi sheets of backgrounds and figures and and you would shoot image.

render images, render figures. They wanted you to do quite a bit in the classic style where you would copy the masters Da Vinci and Michelangelo and Peter Paul Rubin's people like that who are real master draftsmen. But college is completely different now. And my son graduated with a videographics degree, and he was working for a few years

and then the whole industry went belly up. This was before COVID, and he he struggled and he's held jobs everything from a carpenter to growing cannabis here in northern California on a farm and developing his own gummies and things. So and if you followed along, I was a big advocate for cannabis. I still am, but I find the older like I get, the less the less opportunities I have for consumption of the thac the active psychoactive component

of cannabis. So I'm I'm I'm less active smoking or or or and don't I'm not a real fan of gummies.

you know, emotional problems for nothing. This is a cyclic situation. We're slowly coming out of thousands of years of cali yuga and we're moving into the next phase, which is much more light, much more positive, and much more energetic. Now you can look at these phases of the yoga and if Caliga calli yuga is the dark phase or the most heavy, then you can see what it looks

like politically. Looking like politically, what are we looking at economically, what are we looking at it echo wise, ecosystems, the

ecology of the planet, and.

this is the problem. And so my guest today who's a psychologist, is going to really shed light on what we can look forward to, but not only that, how to process this dark period, how to go through, how to work it in a manner that is more fulfilling, less depressing, and sheds more light on what we can expect, because as a cycle, it's going to be highlights, low lights, dark lights, and it's tough.

and so there was a period just before I went to college where my parents got divorced, and it was it shook everything up. Of course, I felt the vibe between my parents, and I knew that things were not good. But when you have parents who divorce, that's a very powerful energy, very depressing and sad and debilitating. And so I went away to school. I left the Bay Area and went to Los Angeles and went to college because

I didn't want to be around it. You know, I'm just hyper sensitive, but I didn't want to be around it. So we're going to learn a bit about processing with this wonderful, wonderful psychologist. And his name is Miles Neil,

and the book we're talking about has just come out. It's called Return with Elixir, Four Maps for the Soul's Pilgrimage through Death and Rebirth. So that's our program today, and I think it's going to be a little bit longer than normal, but I think you're going to really if you work with it, if you really follow the program, I think there's something to be gained from this interview. You know, every so often I do a tour that I consider a vision quiz. This is where you start

and you finish and you have been transformed in some respect from the interaction with pyramids, with shaman, with special people. And we have one coming up this December call called Sacred Temple Tour of Guatemala. It's gonna be December first to the twelfth of the month. This is the chance to meet with shaman and archaeologists and people who understand energy,

ancient energy, all in one area. You may have heard one of the hosts of the program that's going to be doctor Lydia Di Leong and her partner Arturo, and we're going to be led through a series of programs initiations, but the majority of this tour is interacting with buildings, ancient temples, pyramids that we don't sit and look at, we actually interact with through ceremony, through meditation, and through connecting. To join this tour, go to Earth Ancients dot com

forward slash tours. Check it out and the itinerary is fantastic. We'll be in Guatemala, which is the heart of one of the largest Mayan cities in the world, and we will go to many other.

important material. And what makes this book fun is he kind of went through his own journey, came out on the other end, and has a whole bunch of contemplative material that I think is a good read. He is a psychotherapist psychology instructor, and he's written two books, one called Gradual Awakening and he goes, excuse me. He's co editor of Advances in Contemplative Psychotherapy and would you believe he's coming to us today from Bali, Indonesia, which is

an amazing place. So we're going to find out what he has come up with, what he has passed, how he has passed through the fire and come out, and what we're going to get. So, Miles, welcome to Destiny. Great to have you on the program.

in Singapore and raised in Hong Kong. I lived in Hong Kong for eighteen years, and I did a whole long and lengthy chapter of my education and my career in New York City, and by the time we hit the pandemic, my radar was up for a new start. So that's the short that's the short and very comfortable answer.

kind of absorb the energy of an ancient place like that.

It's not without its own challenges, of course, It's not like a paradise it's but it is offering something that was missing and necessary for this sort of new chapter.

really kind of an intellectual exercise. How could I take old material and synthesize it in a new way start to finish the Tibetan Buddhist path. Return with the Lickxir was a turning inward and a really sort of a deep listening to my own personal experience. And it was a crossroad. It was a turning point for me because in a way I had established myself in New York

City as a therapist. I had a niche working with yogis and contemplative people and people interested in the meditation movement, spiritual you know, people who wanted to work on psychology and spirituality at the same time. And I was very content to kids nice house in Westchester. You know, it was kind of like it was kind of like the pinnacle of a career. I couldn't have asked for anything more. But something was a miss something was off, and I

couldn't put my finger on it. And I started having visions. And you know, I don't say that lightly because I don't don't want to come across as sort of a prophet or whatever. I actually write in the book that I think many of us have kind of visionary experience or dream dreams, potent side of synchronicities, and we kind of just dismissed them because we live in a very sort of banal, kind of clinical, dry, disenchanted world, as

Rick Tarnis might put it. But for me, I started really orienting to these intuitions and these visions, and in a way I later learned through Jung that those intuitions was really kind of the soul's compass, my soul's compass. And then somewhere along the line, I had a really nasty ordeal what Joseph Campbell might call the card six

o'clock moment, just the a terrifying, debasing, absolutely soul destroying moment.

me above water. And there was something in all of these traditions that I think is if it's if there's one take home from the book, whether it be yoga or Tibetan Buddhism, or astrology or jung or alchemy, the esoteric or the mystical traditions, all are saying something very similar that.

about this in a minute. How younger people are not able because they don't have the tools to transform and move beyond the personal crisis a lot of people are having right now. But I want to hear from you real quickly.

is that we should be able to overcome our you know, handle it or or man up, or become so resilient or you know, as Dave asp recalls it, become bulletproof. It's part of our ethos, especially in an American culture, that we we could become iron men and women. We should be transcendent. So to go back a little bit, you asked me about panic attacks, and I could be very transparent about it. I was in an office building in Manhattan where I was receiving my psychotherapy clients. I'm

on like the ten third, eleventh floor. I remember now it's been so long and it's part of my past life narrative. I can hardly remember anymore. But you know, Manhattan is a congested place, and it spins at a certain kind of vortex that makes you feel absolutely like

you're chasing your tail. And it's no longer a nine to five, it's like a seven to eight ordeal every day, and everything is confined, and everything is constricted, and the world was spinning at such a pace that like come Monday morning, journeying from one box in a moving box to my office box, and then most importantly, feeling that the world view that I was in was a kind of restrictive, confining box. And having neck up conversations with people about the problem is sort of what Freud called

the working well. I started having panic attacks because I felt very confined I was. I was feeling very limited

not only by my space, but also so by my profession. The confines of my profession. Insurance companies pay for eight sessions. You're supposed to do therapy just this way. You're supposed to move people out of crisis so that they can get back to work as quickly as possible. And all

of that just became too confining. And so in a way, if I had gone to a psychiatrist and gotten some medication, or if I was so called just doing my meditation practice just right, what would have inevitably happened is I would have just been anesthesizing myself and keeping myself bound in a paradigm or of an invisible prison. And it's I liken this to like if you sprain your ankle and your body is giving you signals not to bear

any weight on it. But you bandage it and you take some sort of painkillers, you're denying yourself important information from a deeper part of your being that's trying to orient you to something, a new horizon. And so for me, the panic attacks weren't a symptom to be ameliorated. And this goes back now to the bigger question that you pose. Panic attacks for me were a soul's beckoning. It was

a call to adventure. It was some part of my soul recognizing like I had reached the tail end of this kind of edifice of the life that I had

constructed over twenty years. I had some success. I had a nice I was doing publications. I had a nice, cushy job. I had a stream steady stream of clients. My kids lived in a nice house in Westchester. It was all the kind of accoutrement of a decent life. And I have nothing, no bad things to say about it. But it was the end cliff, and that end.

so called panic attacks of civilization are amidst us. And rather than ducking and burying our heads like ostriches in the sand and getting on with business and just you know, being ultra distracted or ultra polarized or ultra you know, spoon fed propaganda, I think we have to register that something deeper is afoot and allow ourselves to follow a deeper calling during this monumental moment. So that was happening both on an individual level for me, and nothing is

going to stem the tide, is my point. Whether we're talking a collective or we're talking an individual, there's no it doesn't behoove us to find a tool to kick the can down the road and stabilize what the esoteric traditions are saying. And what I try to recapture in my book and recount in my book is go with the dissolution, Surrender to the dissolusion.

feeling depressed. My son is dealing with depression now. He's only in his early thirties, and I'm feeling for him because he's successful, but he is hypersensitive to society's activities right now. And as a psychotherapist, I'm interested to hear from you. We proceed into this journey that you had, what you were seeing perhaps in your practice that was triggering you, because if you're seeing people who are in despair and apathetic, it's like, what the hell? You know?

your son to a therapist, You could send your son to a psychiatrist, you could find some sort of symptom relief. And as a parent, I would never judge that, because your heart is being pulled. You want the best for him, you want him to throw.

steal their job, if there's anything after that two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in school debt that's ever going to give them a payout. If everybody seems to be absolutely invested and hijacked by propaganda and news media. They're hooked to their cell phones, they're addicted out of the gate there's a lot to be unhappy about, and a lot to be worried about, and a lot to be.

know what the horizon line looks like. We're scared out of hell. We feel alienated, we feel a lack of a lack of meaning and purpose. Why go to a mechanized institution and and and get spit out? Four years later where you're absolutely unprepared for the future. People, young people know this intuitively, and when then we and then we look at them with care and concern and as parents, and we say we give them advices that we would have given, we would have been given for an older

time that no longer works. So what I'm suggesting is, yes, there could be real cases where clinical depression may be really maybe really warrant. Someone needs a stable a stable ground for a minute. I'm not whitewashing and generalizing every case.

What I'm suggesting, though, is to open the parameter from this very narrow clinical symptom management type of present presentation like, oh, some you have you have symptoms here. If we could just get this, we could just ameliorate the symptoms. We could get you back to work and you'll have a perfect light. What I'm saying is there's a spiritual or an existential underpinning, which is it's sort of listening to

your soul that says. What if he was listening and he translated it as I don't fit in this world, yeah, or this world doesn't make sense. What if it had a language and it was whispering in your ear and he was saying something like, there's no place for me here.

to tell me? That's a completely different The question, just like in a scientific experiment, sets up the entire experiment

and determines what kind of results you get. So these esoteric traditions are suggesting that maybe some of these symptoms are bang on. Maybe there's a part of our being that isn't just intellectual, it's intuitive, and it's deeper than that. It's registering that we're living in a crisis situation. It's asking us to go through the crisis in a particular way. Maybe there's nothing wrong with us per se as human beings.

Maybe we're registering that the environment is undergoing a dramatic, cataclysmic shift and we have to go with that current through the other side. And part of that might mean a hell of a lot of very scary letting go.

lot for the younger generations to handle. And we've been through it, you know. I'm in my sixties, and I'm able to deal with it a little bit better or I try to ignore it. But somebody who's a magnet to this information, who needs to hear about these societal changes, may not be able to release it quite in the same way that we do. And you made some great points about Eastern philosophies and these tried and true programs

and practices that help buffer these these problems. If someone is not able to accept in Eastern philosophy like we have, what are their options?

they're your listeners have options. But in and another way, if it's really truly a dark Knight of the soul, what I'm suggesting is tools won't work by definition in a way, if it's a true dissolution or dark Knight of the soul, by definition, our tools won't help. But if it's short of a true dark Knight of the soul, yes, it's possible that community places of safety and refuge practices for self regulation, which meditation and yoga are wonderful at.

These are natural and natural medicines and natural remedies, the sound music, art literature. These all can serve as bastions of support and inner reliance what are called inner refuges. They create safety. It's all about the sense of coherence and safety when you're feeling fragment, the best one that is recommended by our human design we overlook all the time, and in fact we're having the biggest influx of disruptor. It's an actual face of somebody else in proximity that's

more regulated than us. By design. We have facial recognition, We have a vagus nerve that regulates our neural pathways and our ability to regulate our emotions. If we're just in the presence of someone who has some level of self regulation, some level of kindness and empathy, offers a calm demeanor and a soothing voice. The sound of a soothing voice, and the wonderful thing for people who want to take that role it may be parents or example, spouses, partners.

The trick and the key and the wonderful liberating thing about this is you don't have to do anything. You don't have to fix the problem. Ten minutes of being with somebody with an open heart and a calm demeanor and a present face is enough to help someone come from disequilibrium back online to find their own.

problem solve anyway if you're disregulated and fragmented. So really, to help someone learn how to cope with their reality, they have to shift from being disregulated into wise mind, into reclaiming their nervous system and all the only thing that we have to do is just be willing to be with them in their state of distress. And of course the problem is is when we see someone in distress, especially someone we love, what happens.

tumult here. That can be a really big learning lesson for both the receiver and the giver.

and wanting to know what the hell does what's going to happen next, and not really having any balance.

They learn how to be available without getting overwhelmed. Now, part of their mechanism could be to shut things off, and we don't want that. So you know, if you walk into your doctor's office, or you walk into a trauma surgery, or you walk into you sometimes get first responders who learn to be present without being empathic. Now, I'm sure your listeners and you and I have had that experience of walking into a doctor's office where we're just like meat on the conveyor belt. You know, it's

like too many, you know that. But how do you stay connected with someone and empathic without getting overwhelmed by whatever is happening in their bit of reality? That's an art. But that art, if we were to learn, and we were to extend as a gift to our loved ones, would go a very very long way. Now, what we're just to orient, we're still talking about coming short of a true dark knight of the soul, Like, how can we be effective? How could you work with your son?

How could you stabilize people that aren't willing or ready to be on a long term, very very deep spiritual journey of disintegration, voluntary disintegration.

is how do I just survive the ebb and flow of such and flux of such a rapid change. Well, we really need to stick together and we could all afford to learn some very basic coregulation deeper empathy and enhance, just as AI is booming, enhance our human and pathy in our deep social emotional intelligence.

Soul's Pilgrimage through Death and Rebirth. I want to get into system vibrations like the Yugas. But before I do that, you use the term pilgrimage quite a bit in your book, and this is an important key that I found that

I have fallen into. When I mean I need to get away, I need to go to another country or another area, or I'm here in California, so I have a lot of landscape that I can go and do vision quest But why are pilgrimages so important when we're trying to release, not only trauma, but perhaps realign.

There are at least three types or categories of pilgrimage. One is the outer pilgrimage to a sacred destination. One is an inner pilgrimage. It is a journey into the inner landscape of one's mind, into the labyrinth of one's mind, if you will. And the third is called the secret pilgrimage, and that has more to do with the pilgrimage of aligning your internal vibration and energy prana. So it's an

energetic it's an esoteric pilgrimage. It's considered secret or contric because if you monkey around too much with that kind of energy system, without the right initiation or support, you could actually hurt yourself. So those three pilgrimages are beautiful opportunities. They are all defined by one principle. They're disruptors of ordinary reality. So when you ask me, what purpose does a pilgrimage serve, you know, people think of pilgrimage as in terms of a kind of travel. Well, the way

that we travel these days. Actually most of us look for comforts. If you're working hard, Cliff, and I'm working hard, you know, we want to come to Bali and we want to put our feet up and we want to sit with you know, we want to relax in the swimming pool with a nice drink and some you know, smoothie bowls as we look over look the ocean. But that's not a pilgrimage. A pilgrimage in a true sense, if it's really worked well, first of all, it's answering a deeper call. It's not the call of can I,

you know, where can I find a respite? Where can I have a moment of you know, a break from my reality? So can so I can recharge, so I can go back to the rat race. It's a disruptor, a disruptor of what. It disrupts everything from your ordinary routine to your mentality, how you see the world, your worldview, to your own identity, the way that you hold yourself and see yourself in the world.

and we have done incredibly well at doing this. We have the highest tech. You can walk into a smart house.

the world isn't just about comfort. What are some alternatives? Well, the ancient traditions had a different paradigm in worldview, and pilgrimage was situated within those worldviews and acted as a kind of crucible or a method for realizing different kinds of qualities and different kinds of attributes and having different kinds of experiences. So or, for example, in the Buddhist tradition of pilgrimage is about awakening. Sounds wonderful, doesn't it.

Let's go on a pilgrimage for awakening. Well, you can't

have awakening without having what's called And these are more archaic terms, and we can find updated terms for them. A pilgrimage, at least in the Buddhist tradition, is just defined by two things. The orientation towards a spiritual destination with the aspiration to awaken your mind.

is called accumulation. So what you're trying to do is you're trying to disrupt the status quo of your identity, which is fixated on meanness and comforts, and it has very it has a whole structure of defense mechanisms and avoidance patterns that wants to look at the kind of ugliness inside of you and the hedonic urges and the aggressive urges when you go on pilgrimage, And why it's therapeutic is that you work on taking a healthy look

at yourself and taking responsibility for those impulses that are actually creating your and other people's dissatisfaction, having an honest inventory and accounting and wanting to work on that.

this is an intervention. This is just like this is the old world's remedy for the dark Knight of the soul. But short of the dark Knight of the soul, this is a way of transformation. Pilgrimage is a literal transformation in motion. It's not just transformation on your meditation cushion.

It takes advantage of the fact that as you orient towards spiritual destination and you've gone to many there it be Egypt or Peru, or Nepal or Bali, there's something in these sacred sites. Just a few months ago, I was on the Camino de Santiago in Spain, Okay. This is a thousand year old pilgrimage route that heads towards Santiago to Compostella, where.

many months along route, in order to process there. At that time, in a Christian metaphor, in Christian ethos, it was in order to atone for sin, but also to connect with the divine and to accentuate and amplify their devotion. And so what happened is that over a month or three months, or six months, however long it took them to get to their destination, they were actively and voluntarily

engaged in a process of self transformation. By the time they hit the destination of Santiago to Compastella, they had already transformed. It wasn't just the arrival at that place. Although if you go to Abados, or you go to Dandera, or you go to Machipicu.

miles seven to eight hours a day of walking. These were people who I had no connection with. They were complete strangers when we started. When we ended, it was a completely different picture. But one of the observations I had, which was incredible, was that by the first order of the trip, half of the cohort were experiencing or were deepening ass life for Gressia, past life memories. And I

wasn't anticipating that. But I put two and two together and I thought to myself, No, yes, of course, we can say that this is a self selected group of people who had volunteered for spiritual pilgrimage. But on the other hand, there's something about the path, There's something about the terrain in which thousands and thousands and thousands of oriented pilgrims over centuries have imbued that space with a kind of energetic charge that when you go with the right,

right intention, something shifts inside of you. That might not happen. And if you're just at your local cafe in France, or your therapist's office in New York City, or at the beach in the Bay Area, it might not happen because those places don't have the same kind of energetic charge. This might I've never been to Egypt, but since you have a lot of people that are interested in Egypt in your in, your in your in your fan base,

you you can't deny that going to those places has a kind of energetic signature all of its own. Well, what happens to the human psyche in those places, Something very deep and unpredictable is touched and is amplified and is augmented. So what if you go with a spiritual intention, open minded, I don't know what's going to happen, but whatever happens has meaning. Yeah, suddenly we were putting pieces

together on long walks. I was almost doing psychotherapy at the back of the line with people who were It was awesome. It was like people would come talk to me. We had there was no And see this goes back to the question you asked me about being confined in New York City. I was confined brick and mortar. I

was confined by forty five minute sessions. I was confined to just getting people working well back to the office so they could come back into my box and out to their box, back to my box, band aids and here on the comino, I had hours of time, no pressure, an absolutely beautiful vista, a trail imbued with meaning of centuries,

following a path oriented by a spiritual inclination. People would come and just converse with me, or I would converse with them, or they would converse with each other, and things were being activated and they were oriented. Not to dismiss them as symptoms as craziness, but as as opportunities.

Can you go deeper? Can you go deeper and deeper? Can you go deeper to the places that you're not familiar with, the places that scare you, the places that are unknown to you? Can you start listening to a new way instead of being oriented five senses outward, what about oriented five senses inward? What does the inner landscape have to teach us? These are all the questions about pilgrimage, which I'm so fascinated with. I'm taking so much of your time. I'm not.

Buddhist terminology a part of the purification starts early. So they may ask you, of course you know all this, but your listeners they may ask you to change your diet, change your lifestyle, maybe abstained from sex, maybe routine eyes, more your sleep pattern, you know, maybe not interact in ways that are terribly aggravating or upsetting to your mind.

What they're asking you do is not only cultivate the outer conditions or circumstances for a breakthrough, but actually treat your inner environment as part of the remedy and recipe for for awakening. And so a diet, a lifestyle change, and attitude adjustment. I love that attitude adjustment. We need, we all need an attitude adjustment. They may happen, we may, It may happen a month before you even set foot.

So then when you get there and the shaman invites you into ceremony, you're well intended, you're well oriented, your body is receptive, you've you've dissolve all some of the obstacles already you are, and listen, it's not easy to do those things. When you change your diet, even if you stop using sugar or eating meat, and that's something familiar to you. What happens, Cliff, what happens to you?

You get irritated, you get angry, you start having upsetting feelings, You have maybe disrupts your sleep pattern, maybe it triggered. All of that is not secondary. That's part of the journey. How do you show up for that? How do you relate to that? What does that teaching you? Maybe it's not all cognitive, and maybe it doesn't all make sense, But your body is going through purifications, it's launching off things that weren't, you know, toxins, So it's all meaningful. It's not arbitrary.

safe container. Maybe it doesn't always make sense. I mean trauma therapy, for example, you can have a shard of experience come up in a completely anomalous, unrecognizable way. You just have get a moment of anger, and nothing in

your immediate environment seems to be congruent with it. But if you understand it from a trauma lens, it's it's release, it's it's and if you can just allow that something in your psyche is actually taking authority or own ship over your well being and saying, okay, now is the time to let go of this thing so that you can expand who you are and reclaim parts or fragments of your being that you disavowed or let go of or couldn't handle when you were younger or in a

different type period or a different context. This brings up a bigger question. Maybe we can pin it. But Jung had this wonderful thing to say about the psyche, which is that the unconscious is not your adversary. The unconscious is your ally. Cliff, this was revolutionary for me, man, It was really revolutionary for me in my process. I'm a kind of guy that wants to know, wants to be in control. The world prize that it made a scientist of me. I went to get a PhD. You

did too. It's like the world tries to get you to be uber rational so that you can control your dominion. And we learn some way through pop culture or other ways that the unconscious, what's inside of us, is threat. You know, keep vigilant about this is definitely freud. Keep vigilant about what's inside of you because it could upturn the apple cart. Jung had a different opinion about it. Jung was, no, the unconscious is like a deeper mind.

It has a deeper knowing. It knows exactly when you're ready to have an upsetting moment, because that's not designed to derail you. It's temporarily designed to disrupt you, to open you. And so Jung was always oriented towards what are these anomalous experiences getting upset, being irritated, being angry? What is the unconscious trying to teach us? What if it takes you in a new direction? What if you have a massive breakup, and in my case, what if

you have a massive betrayal. He would suggest that these are all happening for our benefit and your son, for example, what would Jung say about your son's depression? He would say something like maybe, just maybe, maybe. He didn't put it in a hundred percent guarantee. But just maybe these symptoms are alerting your son to go on a bigger adventure that his culture has limited to him to this

kind of bird path of going to high school, going to college, and getting a job. And he knows at some deeper level that's not going to work. And so why not take a year off and go to France or go to go to Peru, or why not study something completely atypical and outside the norm. Why not follow his intuition to learn how to sail around the world. Why not, you know, go splunking in some cave in southern France or learn agriculture in Bali. I you know you and I would look at him and go, that's crazy.

You know you need to get you need to be prepared for a job.

have integration without fragmentation. The dualities always come together. Your Shamans know this. They come from a culture that never lost this or is you know, even though modernity has made its impact on them, the pockets, the bastions of wisdom culture across the planet, whether it be in Bali or in Peru or in India, they still understand this. So one of the things about the Big d death,

it's it's also there's also metaphoric death within a lifetime, okay, and you know, given the astrology, we're also going through a civilizational death. This is another way it's important to us, you and me and your listeners. There is the civilizational death that we're amidst. If we go through it with the same kind of fear response and avoidance response and

sort of hubris, it's going to crush us. If we go through the big civilizational death with more of the wisdom eye or the third eye of the Shamans or the wisdom keepers, it'll be a much more graci gracious death. Although it may be painful, it will have meaning, greater meaning and will actually come out the other end all the better for it. Right, So there are little deaths across a lifetime, and then there's probably there's definitely a big one, a big d death at the end of

a lifetime. Then there's the micro deaths, which is waking up and going to bed every day, or you know, moments of your day. Micro moments of your day could be moments where you have these opportunities that we miss all the time for reclaiming gratitude, reclaiming all, reclaiming compassion, reclaiming you know, vitality, you know, if you're if you if we just reset our mindset and our heart as many times as we reach for our phone in a.

a metaphor, there is the death phase. There's what's called the liminal phase or the Bardo in Tibetan.

grievances and your past missteps, your regrets. So for example, I've never been to Egypt, but there's iconography in Egypt of one of the one of the gods holding a scale where a feather balanced, the feather of truth is balanced against all your negativities. And the Tibetans have the same kind of imagery, and so it's a universal archetype amongst the wisdom cultures. And I'm sure in your Shamans would have something similar, which is you can't outrun your past.

You will have a moment of recognition and you will have a moment of revelation, and you will stare nakedly into the mirror of your past deeds and all are you going to be ready for it? And Cliff I get very animated during this moment because we're not only

going to have to do that individually and clean up our damn mess, but we also have to do it civilizationally, which is happening right now. It's happening right now just as all the systems and institutions are breaking down the underbelly the ugliness of our centuries of hedonistic and imperialistic and misogynistic and exclusivity and all of that, all our desirous clinging and our reaping and raping the earth and a pillaging of the cultures, all of that is now

coming full circle and we can't outrun it. There's no secret ivory tower that the rich folk are going to build in New Zealand that's going to exempt them from the destruction of their grandiose and asinine emissions. And we're

all implicated, and we're all complicit. And so that's the grand scale Bardo, which is if you can tolerate that, and you can take responsibility for that, and you can atone for that, and you can learn from that, then there's also the treasure, which is that you also have an opportunity to redesign yourself, to use that learning as awakening fodder, to mulch it so that you can redesign yourself as more altruistic, more sensitive to the planet, a

more egalitarian leader, a better father, a better husband, a better parent, whatever.

to be more aligned with the incoming area energies of the incoming ages. So we're right right now on a cusp of a transition between two ages.

and decency. We need decency and dignity and humanity as we orient towards the new civilization.

is Miles' Neil. He has written a new book called Return with Elix, or four Maps for the Soul's Pilgrimage through Death and Rebirth. We were talking about the Hindus Keli Yuga, which is what we're in right now, the Yugas system, and my listeners are very well acquainted with the Yugas.

and reclaim a larger identity. I talk about Joseph Campbell's mythopoetic cycle, which is a departure from an ordinary world into an unknown world so you can face a terrifying ordeal but also reclaim a lost treasure and return back with a gift. And I talk about the Tibetan cycle.

The Tibetan book a cycle of death and rebirth, which is a soul's journey through the stages of dissolution at the time of death to enter into the sparto or liminal phase, so that you can reboot yourself as an altruistic angel or avatar to come back to the world

in a more purposeful way. All of these maps follow this one alchemical motto that I discovered across the five year writing of my book, which I want to share with your listeners, and then return to the cosmological map, because it underpins all these maps, and my hypothesis is it underpins many more maps, not just the four that I discovered. This alchemical motto is called salvee e coagula. It solve ae is a Latin term that is a

cognate for dissolve. It means and and coagula is the cognate for coagulation, which means to regenerate or to come back to renew. And so this idea that you can't just jump to the high point of the mountain. You have to go through a disillusion. You can't just have new life without death. And I say it with a smile on my face, and I remember when I was going through the death processes, and it is enough to make me cry. And as it might be as a father to see your own son go through the dark night.

It's not a laughing matter, it's not a one night thing. It can be months, if not years, it can be and for anyone listening, your dark night is your invitation to rebirth. But it makes it no less terrifying and no less painful. And you're and I want to speak directly to your soul, you're not doing anything wrong. If it's painful and it's long and enduring and it's unbearable, it's not that you're doing anything wrong. It's it's this is how it is. This is how the journey goes.

If you can just hold on, if you can just open even that little bit, if you can just accept the tumult, if you can just accept the fragmentation, if you can just accept the not knowing and the lack of ability to control your situation for one more day, with a with A with a hint of faith in the larger enterprise, that all of these wisdom traditions are telling us that life is cyclic, and you will make it through to the new dawn. You won't fall into

the abyss and be forever obliterated. It's an impossibility. Let go, Let go, Let go, noble one, the hour has come for your dissolution. The liminals doorway, this doorway into the liminality is here go through with a noble heart and learn. This is what the Tibetan Book of the Dead is encouraging all of us to do it. It hurts like hell, it burns like fire. It's so disorienting, you don't even know who you are.

where you are, why you are. And if you can just open that, that is a huge teaching, a counter Hubris teaching to open you to humility. Then humility sheds you of all your knowingness and maybe then some drop of wisdom from a deeper source can then fill your cup. But we don't want to let go. We want to know, We want to know, we want we want to be in cont want to have it all together. So this is the invitation, both at the large scale and at the individual scale. The Yuga cycle as a metaphor is

saying that life is cyclic. We have reached from if life was a clock of twenty four thousand years, twelve o'clock at the top and six o'clock at the bottom. The six o'clock is at the darkest night, and we have just according to experts like Biboo Mishra, who you've had on your show, incredible expert on the subject. Is he basically recalculated tree you tek Shwarz from his Holy Science book, which is the book that I used as reference point. He's basically suggesting that sometime in May twenty

twenty five, we cross a threshold. I don't mind so much whether it's here or there, to be honest with you, because I look at it as a construct as a metaphor. I don't look at it. I'm not trying to track it as precisely as Bibou, although I think it's important.

But for me, all that's important is a couple of things to alert my unconscious and your listener's unconscious to the fact that time is cyclic and that we're on a great and long journey together as civilization, and we have reached our apex, our tipping point of decline, and we're actually on the upswing, which is an incredibly hopeful

message we need to hear and we need to spread. Yes, the systems are dissolving, Yes, the institutions are fragmenting. Yes, we are all going to actually have to tighten our belts and lose our jobs and like you know, the party is over. Okay, we have to know that your kids know it already, which is why either symptomatic, but if they see it in terms of the bigger picture, it provides orientation. Cliff, It's not just if you're too close to the trees. It just can't be enough to

destabilize you. But if you can take us big step back and see the long arc of the longer journey and see, I'm a soul being reincarnated through time and space, and I happen to be born at a time where I'm at this absolutely pivotal, cataclysmic and creative opportunity, then I have a place. I have a role to play here. Your kids and my kids have a role to play, and your listeners and you and me have a role

to play, and you're doing exactly. So you've been following and I don't even know you, but i've your soul has been guiding you to broadcast these wisdom messages and take people on pilgrim images because it understood in this lifetime. And I don't know what you were in a prior lifetime, whether you were in marketing or your CEO or something in entertainment. I don't know what it was, but something called you into this role. And now it's prophetic because

now people need this content, this wisdom content. They need access to wisdom traditions. They need to go on a method of pilgrimage for disillusion and reawakening. And you're a wisdom keeper for that. You're a bridge, your bridge to old traditions. Your platform serves to amplify a message that

is underlying it is a message of hope. We yes, we are in crisis, but there's a new dawn coming and actually we can't just be passive observers. We have to be active participants in it. That's the call. How do we be active participants in the reconstruction of a new world When we're talking about long time spances, so we're entering from Collie into Duarpa, right, Okay. Dwarpa is somewhere on the order of two thousand, between two thousand,

five hundred and three thousand years. Of course, Bibu can give you the better math. I have the math in my book, but again I don't. Again, I'm not so precise about it, not because I dismissed the precision. I'm just looking for swaths of mythopoetic interpretation. And so what I like to say to people is we're actually on the cusp of two transitions, not just the Coliyugo, which there are four gold, silver, iron, and bronze and iron we're dark, but also twelve epochs of the equinoc the

procession of the equinoxes. Okay, and this is a transition between the Pissian age and the Aquarium age. That's a that's also you know, these two match each other perfectly. We're talking about the same long cycle of twenty five about twenty four to twenty five thousand years, but within it cut differently. The yugas are cut into four, the astrological cycles are cut into twelve. What's the importance of them, Well, they're the duration in which we are transitioning has a

particular energetic signature. This is what's important. The dwarp dwarpa yuga has a particular energetic signature. It is a time of I would distill it this way, and this is not just me, This is treat U tek Shwaraz, my source and also young knew this too. The age that we're heading into, which is on the upcycle from the dark night, heading all the way back to the high point of civilization Satya yoga, our technological prowess will far exceed our moral compass over the next two thousand years.

What we're trying to do is catch up morally to our technological ingenuity. So this is just one signature which your listeners can contemplate with the age of AI coming and with the you know, with the with the Kurtzweils sort of you know, moment of singularity amidst us in our lifetime possibly right and AI, you know, general artificial intelligence almost there, if not, depends who you talk to.

We're talking about power we have never conceived of. But if you look at the Yugas and you talk to people like Bibu and others that you've had on your show, they'll all say that since time of recyclic there were past civilizations that had unbelievable powers, unbelievable technologies. These are not new things. We had telepathy and we have you know, incredible actual machines. You go to Egypt and you can't explain how you constructed it, and you wonder on a

linear map, how is it possible? Because we're brainwashed to think that people were primitive and we're now we're at the apex unbelievable hubrious. There were people, there were prior civilizations and people who had unbelievable, unfathomable capabilities both internal and external, at their capacity for us lift for us. What we're trying to understand and how people can orient themselves is have hope. We have to move through this voluntarily and gracefully. We have to let go. It's going

to get bumpy. We've enjoyed a long stint of stability, and now it's going to be unstable. We've enjoyed a long period of coherence and now it's going to become fragmented. We've enjoyed a long period of you know, institutional marketing, you know, but it's all a deck of cards, it's all a deck of cards. It's a it's a bubble and it's about to burst, and it's death, and death

hurts and there's no way around it. And there will be grieving, and there will be anxiety, and there will be unpleasantness, and there may be civil unrest and all the rest of it is coming. But if you can breathe, and you can listen to the guidance of the wisdom keeper, and you can coregulate in small pockets and small communities and local communities where you gather around higher intelligence, and you can open to this fact that what is being called and asked of us in this moment is make

your life an instrument of ethics. That is, that is now here's one analogy I'd like to offer your listeners. When the big megalithic builders and builders of the great cathedrals of Europe in the Middle Ages were building, the Stonemasons would have a vision of a of a of a temple or church or cathedral that would last one thousand years that they would never see the end of. They would never see the fruit of their labor.

aligned with virtue. We will be the foundation builders of a new civilization that we won't be around in this form to witness, but we will bequeath that to our heirs and to our own souls to read, to reanimate, or to reinhabit. And so ethics is our strongest play.

Clean up your life, have moral integrity. I say, you know, most people when they take the wide angle view and they see the institutions collapsing, they see the ecological system collapsing, They see the absolute you know, hypocrisy and corruption in governments. There's no one to trust anymore. It's you know, fifteen minute cities, and everybody's trying to overstep and overreach and

control us. The propaganda over the over the airwaves, and the deep deception is only going to get more tenacious deep deception. And how do I know that? I know that because the aquarian age has at least four signatures that I write about in the book. If you want to orient yourself properly to the future, the first thing that we need is to understand that we're going from a pyramid to a mandola. Is one of the archetype

or the energetic signatures of the incoming age. It means that this whole thing of like Trump on top and the rest of us lowly folk on the bottom, that's

about to upturn itself. But before it upturns itself, the oligarchs on top are going to double down, which is what's happening right now, in order for us to recalibrate and re harmonize and align with the new civilization that's coming in, which will be more architectically designed around a mandola, where all of us understand that we have a we are in a decentralized network where we all have we all have innate power and dignity, and we all have

a role to play. That's one archetype. Another one is discernment. Why is that important? Because we are going to live through a time period where we are going to be assaulted by deep fake everywhere. We will never know for sure the truth, and if we only use our intellectual capacities, we will be outsmarted by technologies and by bad actors.

And so we have to trust something. We have to train and trust something deeper inside of us, the wisdom eye, the third eye of intuition that can discern between augmented reality and virtual reality and propaganda and all of that stuff. Anyway, what I'm trying to say, and the other one is dignity. There's this idea that we have lost our humanity. If do you just look at the geopolitical situation between Israel

and Palestine. I mean, it's an absolute travesty of both are losers on all sides, and we're completely we have no solutions because we're completely looking at it in a binary way. One's right and one's wrong. And this is the same with our political system in the United States. We're being played. We're absolutely being played. What we're forgetting is that we have to work on ourselves. You don't

like the leadership, work on yourself. You think that everything is corrupt, become more you think that it's all disharmonized. Find small pockets where you can harmonize and try to keep your own equilibrium, stop outsourcing, bring back the responsibility right to your own body and to your own local

sphere of influence. And so, just to wrap this up, because it's long winded, and I'm sorry for that, but I get animated about these kinds of questions because I think there are important questions for all of us, because we're all in this together, and we're all experiencing the

same disillusion of our civilization. And there's one message that came through in the book, and it's the one message I'm repeating here, is as we live into the thresholds of the new civilization, the most important thing that each of us can do is try to clean up our own mess and be as morally intact and morally upright

as possible. And if that means other people cheat us, and if that means other people slap us on one face the side of the face, if that means people other other people steal with from us, we have to do the higher We have to go the higher row. That's the energetic legacy that we will leave.

familiar path, but something underlying you and deep inside of you is stirring. And recognize as there's a mismatch here. There's something that they're not telling us. There's something that's not apparent. There's something there's a disturbance in the force, but you just can't quite get your hands wrapped around it. Then this book serves as a doorway, and it gives you four doorways. You like cosmology, you can go through the Largest Map. You like mythopoetics and stories and narratives,

you can go through the Campbell Map. If you like psychology, you can go through the psychology portal of Jung. And if you like spirituality, you can go through the Deep

Science of rebirth of the Tibetan tradition. And if you're someone like your listeners who may go to Peru and they like shamanism, or they like alchemy, or they like this one, you can go through the universal map that we describe together in our conversation of solve a coagula, and you can put yourself in the deepest understanding that there must be a dissillusion and a complete fragmentation in order for there to be a reclaiming and a renewal, and that we're right there on the cusp. We are

right there on the cusps, so pivotal. So take your time with it, trust your intuition with it. See is that it's its own pilgrimage. You have stories in there. You have Young in Theirs, Young's breakdown to break through, you have christ breakdown to break through, you have Buddha's break down to break through. You have my clients breakdown to break through. Tell your son that a breakthrough is

a breakthrough, is imminent because he's breaking down. Encourage him to keep going, Encourage tell him that he's not crazy. Tell him that it's a mismatch for his society and his civilization, and that you know there are cultures that would understand him and validate him and support him through. This is a vision quest. This is a long enduring vision quest without substance for him, and that he will be okay, and that he will be a contributor. And

I want your son to know that. I want everybody listening to know that, and I want us to remember that we're all in this together. That the worst thing that we can do is fragment and like you know, feel appssolutely lost in the corner of our mind. This is a time for us to come together.

twenty twenty six. Is a big year for me because you got me at the right time. Cliff, at the beginning of the show, I told you how valuable and important I think pilgrimages are, and so I'm pivoting out of one on one work, although I still do a little bit of it into pilgrimages, leading pilgrimages as you do. I'm going to have four of them next year. One is to Java for conscious leadership. Java is in Indonesia where they have these great temples and the largest mandola

on the planet. We never get to talk about it, but since you do all the ancient civilizations, the Silundra dynasty built the biggest mandola on the planet in jet and central Java, and I'll be doing visualizations there for conscious leadership, altruistic training people how to become not just influencers.

I'm going to have a Balanese alchemist and an Arivedic physician and myself a Buddhist psychologist, going to reanimate, not just look at these ancient sites. Okay, this may be one of the difference between my clinical background. I'm not a historian, I'm not an archaeologist. I'm not an anthropologist. I'm a healer. So I've collaborated with two other healers. We want to go to Turkey and we want to go to places like Kapadokia and to go Beckley Teppe

and to Pergamon where they have the Esclepeon. I know you had Sarah James on your show once and I'm a big fan of Sarah James. She and I recently went to the Esclepeon in Greece. I'll be going to the Escleppeon in Pergamon, Turkey and doing and reviving it with Tibetan healing techniques. So we're not just inviting travelers to look at the stone and to and to have awe about our ancient ancestors, but also to move forward. How do we reactivate these sites, Cliff, this is very important.

How do we reactivate them so that they're ready to initiate larger populations of people for the new world that's coming.

which is about the book. So if you want to do a study the book with me online for free, you go to my YouTube channel, you find the Crucible.

you enjoyed it as much as I did. His book has just come out return with Elix or you can get it wherever you get your books, digital books too, And I wanted and I didn't know this, he hasn't done it, and uh he hasn't recorded it in uh audible. It should be recorded, and he agreed because he's got a good narrative type of voice, and so I reached out to his publicist and recommended that. So it's funny

because I just don't have time to read. And it's really a challenge when I get somebody who sends me a huge.

For all the details on this tour, go to earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours and register if you can. We're about half full. We're only taking about twenty maybe twenty five people. I don't know if I want to go that far because we're we want to stay in

a bus and get around comfortably, so I think we'll cap it at twenty five.

gonna be April twenty eight through May tenth. This is not to be missed because we're with Mohammed Embraheim and he is another one that kind of gets into the sacredness of these ancient sites. We'll do some meditations and we will definitely see some of the most amazing sites in all of Egypt, if not all of the world, including the megalithic statuary that I'm fascinated with and you'll have a chance to see.