Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, Hi, how you doing. Come on in and have a chair. Let's chat for a minute or two. This week we're talking about communicating with the afterlife for people who have crossed over into a place we call heaven, the home base of the soul. And we're featuring a returning author who has a new book, and you know, part of his book part of the discussion today is channeling. And channeling has been going on for centuries, a millennia,
actually thousands of years. We read about it in the chronicles of ancient Greek stories. We get a sense of it in Egyptian phuronic society. I know that the Maya used it. A lot of ancient cultures used it. And one of the aspects of the channel is to channel somebody who has that you've known, a relative, a friend, a mentor, a teacher, perhaps somebody famous that you would like to communicate with. And I've had people on this show who are channeling experts. In fact, we've had a couple of
people who've written specifically on the channeling phenomenon. And because of our Newtonian science and physics, we have a our scientist today today, in our current epoch, don't really believe in channeling because they can't test it, they can't prove it in their scientific study. But we have seen and we have read about important inventions, importance data, important aspects of the physical life coming through channeled
means. And this is where the recipient, someone who wants to connect with the afterlife, closes their eyes, goes into a meditative state and reaches out and through a technique or two, connects with the consciousness of a departed soul. This again, this can go also for people who are noted as scientists or creative individuals. Really, the sky is the limit and you can look
up books on channeling and get a sense of what is coming through. Today we are focusing specifically on the afterlife, people who have crossed over into death and are communicating with those of us who are live in physical bodies here on the planet Earth. And the aspect that is focused on today is departed soul, people who have died and their perspective, what are they on what they're experiencing in heaven otherwise known as the afterlife. And this is important because,
as you'll hear in today's interview. There is an important database known as the Akashik Records that we think is in that place called the afterlife or heaven, and my guest today, doctor Matthew McKay, believes that this is something that people who have departed work with, and he's of the belief that this is something that is a learning tool. How do we get to that place if
you're physical is the big question I've been having. And we've had numerous guests talking about the Akashik Records and they had their meditations, but it's looking more and more that it's much more simple than a complex set of guidelines. It's more like close your eyes, meditate, and then slowly begin nudging your way with requests either using your higher self, your guides, those who you believe are with you on the spiritual plane who can actually lead you to and to
connect with the Akashik Records. Now we've got over a number of programs discussing the Acasha Records. It's my belief that people like Tesla use the Akashik Records to bring in new machines. Some of them are appropriate, alternating current the machines that ran it, some of them are not. Some of them, the items that came through were not appropriate for this timeline. Case in point, the Warrencliffe Tower. Why was it not credible for this time period?
Well, the Warrencliff Tower developed energy in the atmosphere, free energy so that you didn't have to charge for it. And at the time Westinghouse and then the other people like Edison were not backing Tesla for that, and they actually pulled their funds so that he couldn't complete the work on the Warrencliffe Tower.
So, and this goes through science as well. And people who are looking for the creative muse they go to the Akashik records and either through dreams or through study and failures, they eventually bring through new inventions, new creative ideas, new paintings, new writing. The sky's the limit And this is what
the Acachek record is all about. And this is part of our discussion today is when you pass over, this is something that is used to assess what has happened, to assess scenarios of what could happen and what didn't happen, and evaluating your physical life. So today's program is Lessons from the Afterlife, and my guest is doctor Matthew McKay. We have a returning guest this week. His name is doctor Matthew McKay. We've had Matthew on a couple of
different times. He is the author of the Luminous Landscape of the Afterlife, and he has taken the whole idea of death and heaven and the afterlife and the soul, and really I considered a repackaging a very important understanding of what it means to pass away, what happens when we leave the physical body, and what heaven is, what it means to be without body, and most importantly, the various lifetimes we have when we come to this place called Earth.
And the new book that we are talking about today is called Lessons from the Afterlife, a deep knowledge tation guidebook. So and I had a chance to look at this as this brand new just came out, and Matt it's great to see you again and congratulations on this third book. Thanks glad to be with you. Was this something that Jordan, your son said, Hey, yeah, we need to pop another book out. We got more to discuss, or was it just this is this kind of a continuation of the
channeling work that you've been doing with him. Well, we've been channeling now for fifteen years. And as this has been the case before with Jordan, he decides that we're going to do want he wants to do a book, and he and there's a very specific topic. He feels that there's some need in people who are incarnating to this planet to you know, for something that he wants to offer them. And so, yeah, it's his idea.
And then he starts, and often and he did in this case, he just outlined, you know, here's the basic you know, what the book needs to look like. And then I guess I just started. I'm a scribe. I'm just writing down what he has to say to me and putting it together in the book over time. So it took about a year I guess of channeling to get this. Let's let's go back to the beginning. Jordan is your son who passed away. How many years has it been now
since he Ye, it's fifteen and a half years. And yeah, So when he died, he was on his way home on a bicycle from work and some men accosted him wanted, I think, to take his bike. There was a huge fight and eventually broke away from them and one of them shot him in the back and he died on the street. And I think I wanted to know from the moment I heard about it, what anyone who loses a loved one wants to know is that that soul still exists and are
they okay? Are they okay where they are? And I just set out on a journey to find Jordan and to answer those questions. And you know, I saw them initially through mediums. I saw him via this process called induced after death Communication I ADC that Alan Bodkin pioneered. That came out of E m DR and it's a very variation of BMBR, which I use all
the time with my clients to help the problem loss. And I did have the experience with Bodkin of actually hearing Jordan and hearing him say the things to me that I desperately needed to know that he was okay, that he loved us, that he was watching over us, he was a good place, and that was very powerful and meant so much to me to hear his voice and to have the actual moment of contact for the first time since he died. But I wanted to have a conversation with him. I wanted to actually
be able to ask questions and hear his answers and respond to him. And so I consulted the late Ralph Messner, who's kind of a specialist in after death communication, in the afterlife and use of psychedelics for you know, achieving insight and awareness, and he taught me how to channel and how to do channel writing at Channel Communication. That night, I went home and had my
first channel conversation with Jordan, who just blew my mind. And Yeah, I didn't think something like that was possible for me, but it was is. And ever since then, Jordan has been telling me amazing things. I mean, you know, you know, he's answered my deepest questions, and he's advised me and guided me how to live my life. And he's given me a picture of the afterlife and our purpose in coming to earth that I
could never imagined at that time and has meant so much to me. It's been such a gift for me. Talk about the channeling process, Matt, I mean, you actually have provided a meditative approach for people who read the book to do their own form of channeling, which I think is fantastic. But when someone is preparing to connect with the afterlife, be it somebody who they're familiar with or not. What is the channeling process? Is it simply a meditation or is it an intention? Before we go in, talk a
little bit about the process. Yeah, you know, it's something that I think anyone can do. I've taught hundreds of people had a channel, and a lot of clients that come to me who've lost a dear person in their life, and I've talked of the channel and so it's actually pretty simple. And you know, just first of all, you just need something to create eye fixation to, like a candle. That's usually just quite nice poking in
your eyes on the candle. The next thing you need is an object that connects you to that person on the other side, and it could be something that they owned or something that they gave you, but it's just some object that connects you to that person's and then the process of opening a channel. Before you do that, make sure you have a notebook, because you want
to write down your questions and write down the answers. Physically writing them down as part of the channeling process, and it actually deepens the altered state necessary for channeling. So have a notebook. The actual beginning of the channeling process is simple of a positive meditation, just a breath based meditation. You pay
attention to your breath, You bring your attention down to your diaphragm. On every outbreath, you just count for stout birth one in the second outbreak, two, third, half, three and so forth to get the ten. Then start over. So you're just focusing on your breath and when thoughts arise, notice the thought as soon as you can and gently bring your attention back
to your breath. So that's the meditation. It's a very simple focusing, breath based meditation, and it does create an altered state and it begins to open the channel. So I just encourage people and I do myself. Just go through a number of counts to ten on the outbreath until I feel a kind of quietness, settling in a kind of receiptivity, the kind of openness, and at that point my thoughts sort of slow down. And at that point Ralph taught me to just visualize an orb the color of the sun right
above your head. Just imagine that orb of their colored sun, and ultimately, as you're visualizing it, also be in touch with the person you love and have the full intention of connecting to them out of love. You're going to connect through love, And then visualize the orb expanding like a tube all the way to the person that is on the other side. And at that point the channel is open and you could start, and I encourage people to
just begin, write your first question. Just watch the words take shape on the page. Again, that's part of channeling, part of deepening your altered state. Watch the words and then open and wait and the first thing that enters your mind, the first words, and your mind writing them down, even that they don't make any sense, Just trust that whatever shows up will eventually make sense. Write down the very first things that are your mind.
Sometimes you have to wait and see what happens next. Maybe another phrase or another sentence comes, and just keep waiting until you have what feels like an answer and then ask your next question. Now, the answers come in different ways. Sometimes it comes as a download of knowing just boom, you know, you just know it. You don't even have words for it is total
awareness. Sometimes it's just very compressed, just a few words. Sometimes it comes as a picture, an image, and sometimes it comes as a whole string of words so fast. Sometimes you can't even keep up with it. But it comes in different ways and it's okay. Whatever way comes is fine, and just look down what you get. That's the process that Ralph taught me. And it's exactly what I use when I contact Jordan every week we channel, and it's exactly the same process. And other people use the process
and are able to channel as well. You have your son as the afterlife connection for your channeling, but somebody else who perhaps doesn't have a special person, can they reach out and say, I'd like to have someone to work with in the afterlife to channel, or how would you suggest somebody who doesn't necessarily have a loved one or anyone of note, how did they prepare?
How do they reach out and find that connection? Yeah, and that's really I'm glad you're asking that because it's is an important question because you don't necessarily have to can't channel someone who's died. Uh? And so you know, remember that moment I talked about you send the message, the orbit is above your head and you're preparing to send the message, you're preparing to open the channel. Well, now that's the place where you the moment where you decide
on the address of your of your channel, the spiritual address. And now if you don't have a loved one on the other side, you can you can channel your spirit guide. We all have spirit guide, usually more than one, but we we all have spirit guides who are intimately involved in our lives and are are guiding us in any ways. Uh and and so this is an opportunity to open the channel and actually ask questions of your guide another and you can have the same kind of conversations that I have with Jordan,
that I have with my father sometimes with your guide. And another opportunity or another address you can send channel messages to is your higher self. You're the part of your soul that always remains in spirit, and all part of us, part of our soul energy incarnates in these in these bodies that we live
in. Part of our soul energy always remains in spirit, always is in the afterlife, and we can actually channel our own higher self and the and the sole energy that always remains in the afterlife has knowledge that we forget when
we come here. It has knowledge of all our past lives. It has the wisdom of everything we've learned in the afterlife, and so all that knowledge is there all that wisdom is there, and we can connect to our own wisdom, most of which we have forgotten and is you know, we we've had amnesia for when we incarnate. And the third thing you can do is you can you can channel directly to the divine and in this very much like prayers, but but it's it's a more active process. In prayer, it's
not asking for things from the divine. It's not asking can you help me with this or that? But it's it's asking for guidance, asking for understanding. And so we can send messages and and questions the divine and get answers in the same way we can get them from our guides, the same way we can get them from loved ones on the other side, in the same way we can get from our higher self, our soul. Listen, spirit is there? Uh and I And the book covers this afterlife heaven if you
want to call it that, if you're you're a religious person. But is it important to be connected to the afterlife as a physical being? And if so, what is the download? What is the what? What overall themes are coming through while you're channeling Jordan that is I mean he's telling you about the afterlife, but I'm just curious about your take. Well, I don't
think it's really super important to know everything about the afterlife. I mean, I think if you are concerned about and worry about and fear death, as I have for much of my life and as many people do, knowing as much as you can about the afterlife can be a big help. But I don't think it's necessary to know a lot about the afterlife in order to have
an effective life here. So yes, it can be really, really useful to know about it, and I have found a lot of reassurance because Jordan describes exactly what it's like, and he also describes why we leave the afterlife, or why we a part of our energy incarnates to come here and live in these bodies. You just said that you used to be fearful of death?
Uh, what made you less fearful? In working with your son who passed over, He's just made it so clear to me that we live on after death, and that in fact, our relationships and the love that we have for for those who have died, survives death. Death has no dominion whatsoever over our relationships, over our love, And I think the most important thing he's conveyed to me is that love, that relationship continues and and and we can we can nurture that relationship. We can be deeply engaged in the
relationships with those on the other side. The love is there, the relations there. And what Ralph Messer used to say to me is those those those people, the souls on the other side, are just a thought away. The thought just thinking of them opens the channel. And we don't realize that.
We think of the loved ones that think, oh my God, that person's gone, and feel a sense of loss, or remember something about them that we missed, but we don't realize that thinking about them actually opens the channel and that and in that moment we can actually send messages and get messages. And that's all channeling is, is just thinking of and connecting to our
loved ones and and and through that channel connecting and communicating. I mean, you're describing a certain form of growth, spiritual, physical, mental growth that I am after reading this, beginning to think that is a part of the physical incarnation. And I don't know how much background you have on the Hindu and Chinese and these other how these ancient other cultures, including Native Americans use the afterlife to help them in the current life. But it seems like it's
very important and we're not paying enough attention to it. Yeah, and that's really true. I mean, all the cultures you mentioned facilitate in many cases journeys into the afterlife to get guidance, to get wisdom. And I think there's just tremendous value in that. I haven't attempted to do that. Well,
I actually that's wrong. I you know, Michael Newton wrote a famous book on the Journey of Souls, and he was the behavioral therapist like I am, and I am a hippo therapist too, And I'm fascinated by that book because he he hypnotized seven thousand people before he ever wrote a book, but before any of these people knew what the afterdoc had looked like him seventeen seventy seven thousand people and they all described the same thing. They all described
the same elements of the afterlife. Uh, and that was that was a very powerful experience for me reading that book, and then I learned how to do that kind of regression to you know, where you regress somebody to their past life then progress them into the death of the past life and then into the life between lives, and I help people observe that life, and Ralph helped me do it as well, have the experience of of of seeing me
after life through a regression. So there are we do actually have some tools to help people enter and look at the afterlife. But the ancients, certainly, and the and and these and the great spiritual traditions offer tools as well. Uh. And so I'm there's some beautiful ways of learning about the afterlife that are now available to us, including just channeling souls who are there who could tell us what it's like. Yeah, and I'm beginning to think that
we are supposed to do this. And in our Western culture we think it's kind of a deprived, depraved focus by thinking or considering dead people. You know, we make movies on that, whereas in the Latin culture, day
of the Dead is huge. It's a week long celebration where people go to the grades of their loved ones and they I don't know, I mean, you would know better than me. But if the Day of the Dead has ceremony where you do seek to connect through a form of channeling the information of your lot, your past loved ones, or more or less, I just think the ceremony brings something out that we just don't appreciate doing right, because
because what does that ceremony really mean? It means that the dead are not dead, The dead are, on some very important level, are still living. That our relationship with them is very much alive and active, and that our love is active, and that we can send love to them and they can send love back to us. That's really what I think that day is about, is the sending of love back and forth. That's a great point. Yeah, that's a good point. It's a very beautiful tradition, you
know, don't you. I mean, I'm just curious about your thoughts about here in the United States and then Western culture. I just think we stigmatize the whole death process, you know, and it's like when somebody passes over, that's it, You're done. Which isn't true, is it? It's not true? And and I think the reason death is so stigmatized here is
that we we're just not comfortable with what does it mean to die? You know, Well, you disappear, you cease to exist, or or worse yet, maybe you go to hell, you know, And we have that God or the Divine sits in judgment of us and that and that we may be cast out. And that's one of the things that Jordan's said over and over and over again to me. There is no judgment uh in in the afterlife that you know you're You're not evaluated as good or bad. You're simply
there to learn. We incarnate to Earth to learn, we return to the afterlife and we continue to learn. And in some ways it's our sacred mission is learning. Because what Jordan has told me is that God created us, or the divine or the all Source, whatever we want to call it, created these individual souls and we are God. We're all part of the say, we're all one. And that's one of the things that it's really important to know when you know about when you know the after, I learned about
the la after. Like what you learn is the power paradox. We're all individual souls and we're all one at the same time, and we're all individual souls and we're all God at the same time. And that paradox is so powerful and to be aware that of that oneness. But why do we exist? And what Jordan says is that the Divine creates individual souls which are part of it, and sends them into a physical world to learn because there are
things the divine cannot learn in the spirit world. For example, how could God ever understand what loss is. God doesn't lose anything. God doesn't lose anything, and so God could not understand loss and mourning and grief. He has to send us to the world, to this impermanent world, to experience loss and to understand what it's like. What does that mean to lose and to grieve and to miss and to seek and to hunger for someone that's gone
or something that's gone. So we we learn all of this and uploaded to God. So everything we learn becomes part of what God knows. God continues to evolve. That's the other thing sort of interesting. You know, God doesn't judge, so that's kind of doesn't fit very much with my Judaeo Christian history. God doesn't judge. There's no hell. God welcomes us all into into you know, the spirit world. But God created us and the whole
physical world to learn to learn things that aren't possible to know. There's no pain in the spirit world, so how could we learn how to love in the face of pain? Unless we came to a physical place in which we
struggle and face all the obstacles and pain that we experience. Is such a great point, Matt, because and I want to talk to you real briefly about how we script each life because there must be and I'm really curious that about what Jordan has to say about this, and then also your impression if we incarnate to a physical lifestyle a lifetime, is there a master script that can be modified or is it we're following a script to the t and we
live and we die with this pre arranged lifestyle. Such an important point, and you're raising here well, first of all, when we choose a life and we offer from what I understand from Jordan and what actually Michael Newton describes in his Journey of Souls is that we choose a life when we're ready to incarnate, and we're offered three or four different choices, and we get to choose among them and what's and we sort of understand some of the main outlines
of that life, some of the main things that are going to happen. You might be incarnating into a body that has certain physical problems or a family that has certain dynamics or a point in history where there's there's inflections of history, like wars are happening or you know, so we kind of understand and we have a sense of what that life is some of the main elements that
life. However, the longer we live that life, the less those expected outcomes are likely to occur, because all of our individual choices actually ultimately affect what happens in that life. And so we enter a life with and it's sort of scripted. It's like we could kind of see what that life kind of looks like, but once we enter it, the script starts to change because of our own choices, and so each of our choices actually ultimately affects,
you know, the various twists and turns of that life. So we actually create, in some point of the physical life beyond the script. So we get a kind of a master script, is what you're describing. But as we live it, and you're just said just now that the longer that we live in a physical body, the more choices we have, what you suggest, choices we have, and the more we start to depart from the script that we understood at that moment where we first chose the life in the
same way. I mean, this is another strange thing. But you know, when you from the spirit world, you can look at the entire Earth history and you can see it from beginning to end. You can see the whole history of the human race from beginning to end. But the paradox is that we all have free will. So we come here, we incarnate, and we kind of change that history as we live. So there's the history as it should have been, and then there's all of our individual choices that
keep changing that history. You know, there's a trajectory we're on in terms of what's going to happen to this planet, in terms of, you know, are we going to protect it or not? And all of the individual choices we were making, the billions are sold on this plan, all the
individual choices we're making are changing that trajectory every moment. So the ultimate where things were destined and it could be very different because of all of our individual choices, and each life where it was destined to and can become very different, or what was destined to include can become very different because of all of our of our choices in that life. Talk about talk about manifesting, because if that's the case, and we have this godlike quality. We're all part
of God. We manifest our reality right well, yes and no. We come to a physical reality that that the Divine just sets in motion and then sends us here and we sort of have to cope with it. God, We have to cope with all the costs of fact. You know this idea that you know God, you know, pray for rain, God will give you rein you know, pray for help God. God will secure your problems. Uh, you know, pray for for a child and God will send
you That's just not true. According to Georgia, God doesn't operate in that way. God sends us here. God will guide us, God will give us support, God will send us love. But God doesn't fix things. We come here and have to figure this out ourselves. All all we come
here into this huge matrix of cause and effect. It's the whole world is a massive a network of cause and effect experiences, and we were dropped into the middle of it, and we have to work with it, work within it, and so our our life and part of our mission here is to figure out how to bring love and live love in the midst of whatever condition we're dropped into and just just one other thing I want to say about you know, the reason we come here. So we come here to learn.
And each of us have an overarching you know, lesson, which is learning how to love in the face of pain, which we can't learn how to do in the spirit world because there's no pain. But then we have individuals lesson plans. So some of us are working on increasing courage in the face of obstacles and difficulties. Some of us are are working on how how to
speak and persuade others to to move toward spiritual truth. Some of us are learning how to how to overcome certain you know, characteristics in our in our response patterns as souls. You know, So for example, we retreat whenever we a soul might have a tendency to retreat whenever they experience something difficult or some sort of hardship, and and we might come life after life working on
that one lesson how not to retreat, you know. Like in terms of my past lives, I have a whole history of when when I go through when I go through a loss and go through pain, of just withdrawing from my from all the relationships, pulling back, and and I've done that in many lives, and I've so I've been working on that one lesson for a
number of lives, and I'm still working on it in this one. And so we often have lessons that go over multiple lives that it take us a while to learn, and when we finally kind of get that one, we move on to another lesson. But then there's the overarching lesson of how to love in the face of pain, which all of us are are learning. Here We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, doctor Matthew McKay,
discussing his new book, Lessons from the Afterlife. We'll be right back. My guest today is doctor Matthew McKay. He has written a new book called Lessons from the Afterlife. It's co authored by his son Jason, who is in what he calls the heavens or the afterlife, and he has been channeling his son for a number of years now, and this book is one of three channeled looks at afterlife. Talk briefly about karma, because karma is
a big deal in the Hindu religion and lifestyle. If we have past lives where we were really harsh with other people, perhaps we were killing people randomly, or we're just not good people, and we come into a new life and we kind of want to amend our behavior. Would you call that a karma lifetime or how would you describe karma? That? What I understand from Jordan or what it's worth, is that karma isn't like retribution or punishment for
our past mistakes, sins, what have you. So in a past life, if we were cruel and mean to people, now we automatically have to go into a life in which we're punished for that, but for that by by being victims of someone who's cruel and mean and so forth. However, what he says, karmen is just the lessons. It's just a lesson plan.
That's what I figured. Yeah, so the past, whatever we did in the past life often indicates that we're still learning something important we haven't we haven't gotten it yet, We're still we're still struggling to learn it, and so we will enter another the next life. We'll have opportun tunities and situations
in which we have to learn about that. For example, if if we're if we used cruelty as a way of controlling people and managing things in our life, Yes, we might enter a life in which we experience that cruelty coming at us, but not as a punishment, but in order for us to learn what it feels like to be on the other end of that kind of cruelty. So it's not a punishment, it's it's a lesson. Uh, and and and that and and and then we might have many, many
experiences that are helping us learn that lesson. We might we might not be a victim of this kind of cruelty. We might be in a situation where we witness it and see how other people suffer with that cruelty. Or maybe we're in a situation where we can do something about cruelty and we learn how how to respond to it. So the lesson isn't always just It isn't about punishment. It's about learning and and the karma is always about completing our lesson
from one life to the next. That's fascinating Jesus. This new book, Lessons from the Afterlife, has direct channeled UH material from Jordan and I like what you did? You say? You'll ask a question. And then Jordan, on the left side of the page is answering these these questions. And this is the fundamental fundamentals of the book. What is the Jordan's goal in
Lessons from the Afterlife? Is it just the continuation of the theme of what's happening in this part of the soul's life, because the soul lives in the body and then is in the afterlife as an entity. I guess you call the soul an entity? Well, I mean he what he wanted to do in this book is three things. He wanted to first all, help us understand from at least from his perspective, what is this? What is this physical universe anyway? What is it? Is it illusion? Is it a
dream? Why is it here? Why are we interacting with it and encountering it? And the second question is why do we come into it? Why do we come to this experience? What's what's the whole purpose of our incarnation? Or whether you if you think of it as a dream, why are
we having the dream? And and so the and the third thing is Jordan is offering some ideas that he has, but he gives people means to actually come to their own truth, their own experience, so they can read something about what he has to say about, you know, well, what what's the nature of the physical unitus? Where did it come from? With? Why is it here? He has to answer to that. But then they
can do what's called a deep knowledge meditation. The readers can do that, and there are prompts and they and they can, and then they can ask questions of their own higher self, of their own of their own soul and spirit, and they can find out their own answers to these questions. And some of them may be the same, and some of them may diverge, because every soul has different experiences. And so it's an opportunity for the reader
to actually encounter their own deepest truth. And Jordan offers his ideas and offers prompts for them to consider and to do this deep knowledge of meditation as a way of acquiring or reaching their own And you've simplified it so that it's not really overly complex. You don't have to be in a meditative state for hours and hours and hours, and you don't need to, you know, be in some kind of a meditative school forever to be able to utilize the techniques.
One of the things that Jordan talks about is finding me meaning on earth. And this is a big one for a lot of people who are in a state of flux, are like, what am I doing here? My life doesn't seem to have any meaning? How do people find meaning? Yeah, that's really really important, and I, I guess I want to just say something in the beginning. I think we we come here for a reason. And you know, the way Jordan describes it is, you know,
we're like bees in a hive. Each soul leaves the hive, incarnates, goes out and finds, you know, wisdom and knowledge, and grows and evolves, and then comes back and brings all that wisdom and knowledge back to the high back back, And and that's what that's our purpose, that's the meaning that we have is to is to go out into the world and grow and evolve and face all kinds of things and learn all kinds of things,
and and then bring that back. And not only is our own soul growing and developing and evolving, but now we bring all that knowledge back and all of consciousness grows, it evolves, and so each of us is on a sacred mission here to learn and and all the pain we face is not that's not a problem. It's not it isn't a failure when we are in pain. Every time we're in pain, it's just an opportunity to learn and and to grow and to evolve, and and each choice we make in the face
of pain is part of that learning. I'm let me give you this kind of maybe not a very you know, you know, inspiring example, but but maybe it is. A mom comes home, she's had a bad dad work, and she has the boss has been very critical. She's now worried about keeping her job. She's very tired, anxious and tired, and her cure it has all these needs right now and needs help with the homework. And he had a bad day and somebody says something mean to them and they're
very hurt. And see, that's a moment of choice. And all day long we have these moments of choice. And the moment of choice for her is what am I going to do in the face of this pain. I'm tired, I'm exhausted, I'm scared and anxious, and now yet and now my child needs something from me. So how do I love in the face of pain? How do I respond to the child in the face of my exhaustion, in the face of my anxiety. And we're having these moments of
choice all the time. And our life is really made up of those moments of choice, the significant things, the choices that we make. And they're not the big choices like what do I do for a living or where am I going to live? There's a little choices all day long of when something is hard and hurts, how can I act on love? And and so he says, that's what we're learning. And and and even when we don't act on love, we're learning. We can't help but learn, you know.
So let's let's say, you know, dad, you know, slaps his son and and he and and and then he notices over time that, you know, that kind of that kind of behavior with his son seems to be alienating his son, and his son is withdrawing from him. And the son grows up and and and and and calls him once a year on his birthday, and that's the end of the really, you know. And but
the dad is learning this is the consequence of not acting on love. So even when you don't act on love, you're learning, uh, And and so I think that's that's what we're here doing, facing each of these moments of choice and learning how to act on love in the face of all the difficulty and pain of a physical planet. You make it it sound like every action in every trauma or interaction and everything else in relationship all has an important
place in an incarnation. And I guess you're making it sound like a learning cycle. We're constantly learning and becoming more aware, and that's the purpose of being physical, right purpose, that's why we come here. According to Jordan, Wow, that's pretty trippy. Does does Jordan talk about the Akashi feel
the Akashak records? That is such a big question right now. It's kind of a spiritual metaphysical question that people have is how do I access this Acashak records, this database of everything that's happened before, present and in the future. Yeah, so let's I could just talk about the Kashak record itself for a minute. I mean, this is this is the means by which the
most learning occurs in the afterlife. You know, here we're learning how to how to face pain and the obstacles and difficulties and how to love and face of all. In the afterlife, there is no pain and so a lot of the learning takes place by the study of the kashk Record. That's the textbook of the afterlife. That's that's where we turn for most of our knowledge. So, for example, you can go to the Kashak Record and you can look at your most immediate past life and you can see all the choices
you made. But then here's the very cool thing about the Akashi record. You could actually see, well, what would happen if I had done X and said of hy, yeah, oh you can play it out. Yeah, what it would have happened if I had taken my son into my lap and hugged him instead of slapping him, and let me see? And then
what the record does. It opens like the chapters of a book, and we can actually see it, and we can see the wholes, all the different ways that that choice would have played out with all of our relationships, and over time we can see it and then we certainly closed it and it's it's just the potential. It doesn't it doesn't exist because we didn't know, and but we can actually see what it looks like to have done X instead
of why, And we can do that in anybody's life. We can go back to the Kashak record and said, well, what would have happened if Abe Lincoln hadn't hadn't gone to the Ford Theater that night? What might what might have played out? Or or if he hadn't you know, had certain kinds of you know, had had hadn't had Stanton for his secretary of war.
And I'm I'm I'm probably too particular here, but what I'm what I'm getting at is we can look at people, everybody, every soul has ever existed, and look at their lives and look at choices they made, and and the and we can open the Akajak records, Well what would have happened if they've done X instead of why? And and so there's just an infinite amount of learning that goes on about cause and effect. Oh my god, and so the and souls just just spend a lot of time with this study.
And it's sort of if then what if? If if that happened instead of this, what would have come? What would have transpired? It's just fascinating. So the Caustic records is a huge deal and after it, but the other thing you asked about, do we have can we have access to it? Here? Well, people are starting to learn how to have more
access to it. Yeah, and Michael Newton, who here you know, the life between life hypnosis, Who's now gone, but the Newton Society, some of the people there are using a similar kind of hypnotic process to to access our future on this earth, you know, So we can we can actually look into our future, and we we can we can communicate to art to ourself in the future. And also in doing that, we can we can learn what would have happened if we done X versus Y in this life.
By peering into the future. Basically, we were looking at the Acacak record for our particular life, and so they developed a hypnotic process for doing that. Fascinating, fascinating work. So yes, if to the extent that we are able to access the Acacak record or learn how to do it, there's enormous learning there. Because it's the learning that is mostly taking place in
the afterlife. We can start doing that here. But I understand that people like Nikolai Tesla was using the Akasak field to download machines and in some cases and this is me thinking but not anyone else, some of his inventions like the warning Cliffe tower, this free energy tower was not supposed to be brought through because it was so far in advanced. We're talking about free energy, so you could run planes and cars and stuff without plugging in or without gasoline.
That it wasn't ready, and so it wasn't accepted by the various people that were funding him, who eventually pulled their money away and the whole thing failed. So, uh, is there should we be using the Akashak records as physical beings or as as you're suggesting it's an afterlife tool. You know, I don't know the answer to that as a fascinating question, and I you know, I think it's possible to access the Takashak record from the physical
plane here, from from our human brains and bodies. There are probably methods to do it, and it's from what you're saying, it's very possible that Tesla was able to. But see again, when you you access the record, you're not just accessing this moment in time. You can access to the Akashak record as it's as it as it will happen. So it's possible that you could have access to scientific discoveries that are yet to be et thevolved but
here's the funny thing about science. As you know, you know, the telephone was invented in three or four different places at the same time, and and and and many many inventions, you know, you know, there were multiple inventors that were all coming to the same uh creation. Yeah. And the reason for that is because all the steps that occurred before necessary for them to take that last leap, so that multiple people were taking the leap at
the same time. If you go and bring something that's far in the future that that we haven't done all the steps to get ready for it, you're not going to get many people to endorse it because all all of that preliminary work has not been done. Right. So, I don't know. I I think the kashak Rec has great potential for us. Whether it's whether we're going to download science from the future, I don't know. But what we can do is we can learn about how choices create different outcomes in our life.
I think what I'm trying to ask Matt is I'm very much focused on previous epochs. I believe in the Yugas, the ancient Yugas system twenty seven thousand year cycles, and there was a period in human history where we were able to communicate telepathically that we manifested with thoughts, so forth and so on, is what they Hindu say. And I'm wondering if using the akashik and other afterlife systems is part of what we should be using in the physical life
to make it it's the best or the most harmonious. Yes, I'm just curious about your take on it. And that's why I'm curious about the afterlife, because if we're supposed to naturally channel our relatives, are our teachers, our mentors who have passed on, then it would make sense that they would be part of that a kashak record, and to be able to use that library and then pass it through to the physical I don't know, I could be stepping on a lot there. I love, I love what you're saying.
I think in part that's what Jordan is trying to do. I mean, and what and what other souls who channel are trying to do is bring that wisdom and perhaps the knowledge of the future into into life here on earth. But certainly to bring the wisdom, the accumulated acquired wisdom of souls and of guides, to to bring it here, that to accelerate our growth and
development. I mean, one of the things I've heard of the time is that there are a lot of souls that are the term is parachuting in advanced souls at this point, trying to try to shape and turn human destiny because we've been stuck in tribalism for a long time, and tribalism is what's destroying is actually and we can see it, we can see it happening right now today. And tribalism is built on the idea that there's good and bad, good and evil, and we're good, our tribe is good. That drive
over there is bad, and we can do anything to them. We can kill them, we can rape them, we can we can enslave them, we can we can do whatever, because they're they're bad, they're not human, they're and so the tribalism at its root destroys connection. I mean, it enhances connection inside the tribe, but destroys connection. And so we're moving from tribalism to oneness to one awareness of one is and it's a big rough
shift in means. And Jordan is saying that, and others have told me that there are a lot of people coming in right now a lot of souls coming in right now to intensify that shift. But here's the problem. In intensifying it, you also intensify the reactionary processes as well, and so you have more reactionary and fundamentalist ideas and people clinging desperately to them and separating themselves
and judging each other and so forth. So it's a big struggle. We're right in the middle of it. And you know, I'm not allowed if at least Jordan doesn't think that souls in spirit should tell so tell us here incarnating about the future, because it takes away our free will. So you
know, I stay away from those questions. And I don't hear many people getting information about the future from souls, and for the reason that we're here to learn, and you don't learn much if you're just told what's going to happen. But again, is that just our history right now? And in earlier epochs, earlier civilizations, this is how they evolved, is bringing through information from departed souls. You know, I just it's such an interesting topic.
How do we evolve? Do we evolve just by hit and miss, or do we evolve through advanced techniques which you're submitting, which you are channeled bits of data from the souls who are formally incarnated but now reside in an energy field that has unlimited data. You know, Well, that's a good question. I mean, what you're saying, and it may it could totally be right, is that there have been periods in our history when we were much more evolved than we are now. We were much more aware of oneness
than we are now. And I but I do think I just throw this out. I think those periods where we were aware of oneness, we were still in a tribal mentality. It's like, yes, we're one because we're one tribe. Our tribe has our God, and our God takes care of us and our god you know, you know rex Havoc on the rest of the tribes. So there was there was a lot of channeling. There was
a lot of of deep knowledge. I think that has been available. So there were there were ways in which we were more involved, but we were still tribal. We still still didn't have the big picture, I think, and and I think that's where we're struggling now because we live in a world in which we have you know, we can we can go to the other side of the world in less than a day. Yeah, and you know, so transportation to communicate all of this stuff has has started to make it
one world. Except we're still have a tribal mentality in one world. And and that's but now the one world that with technology makes it possible for us to begin to experience oneness, maybe for the first time. So there's no way, you know, somebody in uh in Middle Ages Rome could have could have even begun to imagine, you know, the culture and and the way of seeing things of Native Americans, and it blew their minds when they actually
came here and started getting this whole different worldview. But but oneness means that we all understand together and and that's where we're moving toward. I think, Yeah, I like your your scenario of world citizens where we all are working together because we're so disjointed. We're looking at the Chinese as adversaries. And I I'm so impressed with China right now because they've rebuilt their whole country,
their railway and their other utilities are just amazingly advanced. And yet we're stand offish with them, you know, and other different other cultures on the Earth. We're not. We're as you say, we're tribes. Well, it's zero some game, and it's you know, tribes look at things the way Donald Trump looks at things. It's zero sum. It's like it's if it's good for if it's if it's good for if it's good for you, it's probably bad for me. So I don't want anything good to happen to you.
I want all the good stuff for myself. Yeah, And that kind of that's the tribal mentality, is like I want what, I want everything, and and I'm not going to give you anything. And and that's kind of what you're describing in some ways in our relationship to some of these other countries. You can talk about this forever. I want to talk about one of the chapters in the in your book. It's chapter three, The Nature of the Soul, talk about what souls learn last forever. What does that
mean? It means that everything that we learn in this life, when we die, it becomes available, of course to the part of our soul that always remains in spirit and our so our soul evolves and grows with everything we learned here and every past life gave us something that we learned some way that we grew, and so every life helps us evolve and we keep that forever, meaning souls, soul lasts forever, soul live forever, the divine lives
forever, and everything we learn lives forever because it becomes part of the whole, the collective consciousness, the divine, the all, the source, whatever you want to call it. Everything we learn this rep Okay, that's a good one. Uh fascinating book. I can't read wait to read more about it. Does Jordans say that there isn't uh ten thousand lifetimes? We are
living all of the same time. And this is what I've come to hear the latest last decade or so, is that we are living multiple incarnations at the same time, and that we jump as a soul into these different carnations incarnations, which is just like mind boggling, you know, But uh, is there an is there infinity lifetimes? Or are there certain numbers? Like I'm gonna you know, this soul needs one hundred lifetimes to be complete.
And I don't even want to get into the completing of of a soul's existence because it gets into too much complexity. But I don't know how many lifetimes souls typically have, and I know it can be in the hundreds. At some point a soul decides when they've done enough and they will stay in the spirit world and develop spiritual careers. Right, spiritual careers in the spirit world, including guides, healers, creators, all kinds of scientists, all kinds
of stuff going on in the spirit world. So, you know, I think that you know, but we do have a choice about how long and how many times we incarnate, and at some point soul say this is enough. There was another point you were making and I I kind of I kind of overlapped it. It's more it's more like, uh, you know, we learn, we incarnate and then we're done. But what does that mean we just stay in the spirit world and we go to other galaxies. I
mean, it's a real complex question. It can't be answered with a single answer. I mean, it's we have, we've we were developing spiritual careers that that we are, we strengthen over time. Uh, and ultimately we may choose not to incarnate anymore and we focus exclusively on that spiritual career.
And there are there are many from what I understand, I mean, there are there are even spiritual careers that have to do with making music and uh and creating objects and and there are souls that gather together and use their soul energy to create new new physical forms uh and uh and even to create and imagine new life forms. And so there's a lot of So just because we stop incarnating doesn't mean we stop growing and stop having you know, an important
role and in in this in the world of spirit fascinating. Do you have any take on the huge wave of what they call unidentified aerial phenomenon and who these souls are that are in these craft and if and when we ever plan to connect with the souls who live in neighboring planets and all that. Yeah. I my understanding from Jordan for what it's worth, and also from Michael Newton's work, is that you know there are there are countless planets on which
souls incarnate. This is not the only one. This is a difficult planet. It's actually sort of known in the in the ob spirit world as a very difficult place to incarnate, and so it's an acquired taste coming here. But there are many, many, many. I don't even have the faintest idea of the number of plants, but it's huge, and so there are there are many souls, many many more souls than there are people on Earth,
and so they incarnate all these different places. And of course some of those places that they incarnate are going to develop technologically to the point where they can start traveling beyond the speed of light and use warps in the universe to move from place to place. And I think that's almost inevitable that that has
to happen. And it's probable that some of these people have come here and observed, But there may also be a reluctance to engage with us, because if they engage with us, it completely disrupts our evolution as a particular group of souls on this planet. And so it may be that they are essentially tourists who observe and learn or have an anthropological interest in other species, and they develop on other planets without necessarily wanting to get involved and without colonizing us.
Now it's possible also that some advanced civilization may decide to colonize it, but but at this moment it hasn't happened. So the main point here is that souls incarnate all over the universe and the universe is not just I mean, think about it. Why would do the vine create this massive universe just for some little species to evolve here on some planet in the outskirts of the
exactly sents it all. So there are souls and there's consciousness scattered all over the universe, and I'm sure that we have encountered it and we will encounter it. And whether they will choose to really engage with us, there's another question. I don't know. I hope they do. I think it would help us on an evolutionary scale and maybe quiet this as you call it, tribalism and kind of unify the planet a little bit. The books called Lessons
from the Afterlife. My guest today has been Matthew McKay, What is the purpose of you and Jordan teaming up on this third book? What was If you could put it into a couple of paragraphs, what are you hoping the reader gets out of the book. I want the reader to know that love never dies, our relationships never die, they continue, and that we come here for a purpose, and that purpose is to learn. And even this
is a difficult, challenging, painful place. Everything we encounter is an opportunity to learn and grow and evolve its souls, and that everything we take, all of the learning is taken and given to all to the divine and that's our sacred mission here. So those are kind of the main thing that the God or that I created the physical universe in which they which we grow,
but also God grows. I think the other thing, on my point of view would be that consider the channel perspective to have a more fulfilling physical life. Because you can get this other perspective that you have from your son Jordan. I mean, what a great perspective you're getting. And he gives me lots of other advices. Well, I appreciate it. And you and your your listeners can can channel and get guidance, support from loved ones, from
guides, from the mind, or even from their soul and spirit. They can get guidance and uh and it's and it's it's there for them, it's there for us, and it's a resource that we can we can use and call upon with simple techniques like channeling and uh deep knowledge meditation. Yeah, thank you for showing us how to channel. How can people get a hold of you? I don't see your website on the back of this book, what is your How do people connect beyond just the books? You know?
It's the website is seeking Jordan dot com. Seeking Jordan dot Com. Okay, and I'm happy to talk to folks. Are you taking on clients anymore? Or I take on clients but I don't. I'm not. I'm full right now and I really am. And also I'm not licensed to see anybody outside of California, so I'm not seeking you know, I'm not seeking clients. I'm I'm just hoping that this knowledge can spread and and help folks. Yeah, it's it's a it's a quick read, and it's packed with information.
And I love that you've given Jordan a voice by actually writing down his questions to your answer or yeah, questions to your answers. Yeah, no, answers to your questions. There you go. All right, Hey, matt continued success and thanks for joining me today. Thanks so much, Cliff, and wonderful conversation. Right now, Matthew is the only one who is doing regular channeling books with his son Jason, and there is there's other people.
I think it's noadic science in northern California, in the Marine County area, the Institute that is studying channel effects, and there's also independence that are working to bring through new data, new devices and trying to see what the other side can provide. But I, you know, I don't follow it well enough. I don't find follow it to the degree where I'm hearing that people are actually accessing the Akashak records. That's the big question, and I
continue to have the question is how do you access it? What is the means of knowing that you're in the Akashak field, the Akashak records, and is it simply intending to receive data and it's coming through. I think that our ancestors did this regularly. I know the Maya that some of the Shamans were trained to access the what they call the underworld, which is another word for heaven or the afterlife. But we don't know a great deal about it.
And I think and I understand why matt Matthew McKay is writing books like this because he is getting downloads from his son. What's on the other side? What's the afterlife all about? What do we bring forward to the physical And it's you know, we're out of touch. Those of us in the West are out of touch. I think it has to do with physical religion too, because we're not supposed to know the secrets of the afterlife. If
you're so, I don't know. I don't know how this is going to work out, but I think we're getting closer to using the afterlife data more fully, and so it's good to hear from him and good to learn. This book is only about one hundred and twenty pages, by the way, and it's written in such a way where Mass writing a question that his son Jason is answering, and you get that at the very beginning of each chapter, and then you get a description and a definition of what is going on.
So it's very good. It's good material. Hey, I want to mention we do tours every year. We do tours all over the planet. We got two coming up. We have one in August, which is the Turkey Tour. We meet in Istanbul. That's gonna be August fourteenth, and the twenty fourth, another really big one, and really the final tour of the year is the Sacred Temples of Mexico. That's a quick ones. November eighth through the seventeenth. That is a week of real powerful Pyramid climbs,
site evaluations, meditations, intentions. A lot of work going on and a lot of fresh digs are being uncovered that reveal just the extension of the Maya culture and gives us a sense of just how intricate some of these cities were that we are going to visit. For more information and the full terrary on Turkey or our Mexico, go to Earth Ancients dot com, forward slash Tours and check it out. These tours are almost half, in some cases over
half of what the typical prices are for similar tours in similar areas. It's just a wonderland of intense fun and focus. Again. For more information, go to Earth Ancients dot com, Forward slash Tours. Come out and join us. Hey, I want to mention that Earth Ancients and Destiny are a sponsor for the upcoming Cosmic Summit. It's happening June fifteenth and sixteenth. There's actually a pre show on Friday the fourteenth that kind of introduduces everybody, but
that's not really where the speakers are. For more information on this amazing conference, go to Cosmicsummit dot com, Forward slash Earth Ancients. People like Randallcarlson, Pravin Mohon, Scott Walter, Steve Collins, and Moore and so on and so on. We got over twenty three different speakers on a variety of topics, mostly about ancient Earth that you can check out. This is a great tour. If you can't get to Greensboro, North Carolina sight of the
conference, go and do the streaming media. You can get it all and see all the details at Cosmic Summit dot com, forward slash Earth Ancients. All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest today, doctor Matthew McKay, and thank you also Jason on the other side. Appreciate your insight as always, the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock all right, take care of me well and we will talk to you next time. The