Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, what's going on. I hope you're doing well. Welcome to Destiny. You know, I just go back from being on the freeway here in northern California. We're experiencing the atmospheric river effect of rain deluge, and I was on the freeway and the rain was coming down so hard that everybody that was on the freeway and there were after that many cars had slowed down to about forty miles
an hour. It was. It freaks out because the water is coming down at such a rate and with such fury, because there's wind involved that it's bombarding the car. And I can see I could I was driving by. I could see people's eyes like wide open, like what the hell am I driving through. It's like amazing, but kind of scary, and I really don't want to drive. Well, this is happening, and I think most people that are on the road want to get off the road as soon as
possible, you know. And we're dealing with weekdays, so people are coming and going from work, shopping, doing their regular chores and and drives, and it's it's it's a challenge you don't want to be on the road in an atmospheric river. I don't know. If you haven't been in one, I don't advise it. Go on YouTube and view somebody driving through an atmospheric river. They're not made to do anything but stay indoors and let them pass.
We have pretty much all of California has for the next four to six days heavy duty rain, very very heavy duty. And we had this last year and we're talking about five inches to six inches of rain in twenty four hours. That is insane. And we've already somewhat saturated our land. Here. I'm kind of getting into northern California and it's so saturated that we get landslides. And just north of me is the beautiful nap of Valley. And
last year when this happened, they had hills collapsing into vineyards. There were areas above Napa, Calistoga and above that were flooded. Streets were flooded. And that's more rural California. The big cities can help most of the time. They can drain off the water, but even San Francisco last year, during a number of atmospheric rivers, was flooding. Downtown was flooding, So
it's a really interesting phenomenon. I don't know who came up with the term atmospheric river, but it really is apropos for and a good definition for this kind of heavy, heavy rain that is non stop and it's like it's like a cloud packed with water just unloads. It's kind of weird. So you'll probably hear about it in the coming weeks, if not sooner, what the effect is on different landscapes in California. Because it is nothing to full around
with, you want to stay indoors. This week we're dealing with levels of reality, levels of conscious creation, and we've had people on Destiny before talking about the effects of collective consciousness, the effects of previous epochs, previous periods of mankind creating a lifestyle that has levels of consciousness creation. You're actively working,
and you are in harmony with Gaya. It's looking more and more like the previous epoch we're talking about likely on go going periods from one two hundred thousand years ago right up to ninety five hundred during the Younger dreat which was a catastrophic event that wiped out I think the guests is eighty to ninety percent of humanity and megafauna, which are that's another word for big animals and creatures
on the land that were destroyed, that were killed. And you're gonna hear about this on Saturday when I have Chris Donne on the program, and that was a fascinating interview. But it really looks like the previous civilization was more echo based, eco harmonized, and they understood earth energies and so forth and so on. We have a little bit of that focus now, but because technology is so dominant in our society, we don't we've kind of lost touch
with with the Gaya in many ways. And I mean, I see people throwing junk out of their cars, polluting, but it's not necessarily that behavior that's the most detrimental. It's things like nuclear energy, which produces deadly poison.
I think one of the great problems, and I mentioned this today, is the fact that we're pharmacologically based society, and that means that we don't look to our body, our mind, and we're not trained and taught how to understand the ebbs and flows of being human, the human condition, and what happens is when we don't feel well, when we have an illness, we go to our doctor and the medical wellness it's not even wellness, it's
illness. Paradigm is all about ugging us up. Now, when you have an ache and a pain and you're drugged given a drug to ease that, that just pushes the symptom further in the body. And I've talked about this before, We've had people on the program before. When you begin doing that, you can begin stuffing symptoms and not correcting them holistically. Then you're beginning
to cause more and more problems, more and more aches and pains. In many cases, this is the beginning of what they call a detriment or a degenerative condition. This is things like arthritis. This is things like digestive problems, irritable bowel syndrome, neurology issues where you got numbing of the hands, of the extremities of the feet. These are all symptoms that are not being
cared for. And it's amazing. I am on the same boat. I sit on my can for most of the day and work and you know, do the podcast, and I'm writing and communicating, and I have just made it kind of an important part of my life to walk at least thirty to forty five minutes a day. And I can't tell you how amazingly important that is. To do some form of physical activity every single day is critical to our health. Not only have I dropped a bunch of weight, but I
just feel better. It's like an activator for health when you are physically active. On top of that, I have eliminated, you know, the greasy foods, the fast foods. It's so easy. And that's the other thing. Our diet in America is just herrootious, atrocious it is. You know this fast food food consciousness is so easy, but it's such a terrible food to consume. You know McDonald's, I mean, you know what I'm talking
about, any of those fast few places. And then and then the other day I was looking at it was a it was a documentary on wheat gluten and it all what it does is it caused. It causes inflammation and people that have weight problems, and you see a lot of obese people in America. It's inflammation. The body is screaming, get this crap out of my
system. Our gluten, our wheat is is uh inflammation producing and it's causing massive health issues and I was watching a video that done from a German physician who tested the wheats in Europe and in America and in China, and the wheat production in America and the breads that are produced and the pastries that are produced are not good for us. In fact, it's not a good strain. In fact, basically the guy was saying, you got to eat organic
week. And that's really a challenge. If you live in an area that doesn't have organic products, or there's no consciousness around organic foods, forget it. You're screwed. So what do we do. We do the best we can. We try to stay healthy. Exercise is so critical. I'm really finding this out, you know. And the older you get, the more critically important it is. To keep the machine active, to keep the machine oiled. The body helps the mind and helps the spirit. So today's program
is the inversion how we have been tricked into perceiving a false reality. And my guest is Kingsley L Dennis. Shauba Tours is well organized. Everything flowed easily. It was a fantastic tour from beginning to end. To be honest, I was shocked by the private visits. I could not believe that we were lucky enough to experience those. That's from one of the many people who do the Earth Ancients Grand Egyptian Tour every year. We're in our fifth year
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Earth Ancients Grand Egyptian Tour April twenty eighth through May ninth. There's a big question about reality creation here in the United States, actually worldwide. There's been a number of fascinating looks at reality in movies like The Matrix, Chris Nolan's Inception, and there's been a series of articles and books that challenge our native
respective on our reality. And if you've been following along with Destiny and Earth Ancients, we are curious about the previous epoch, the civilization that was around prior to this Younger, Dryest period that we believe wiped out probably eighty to eighty five percent of the population of the Earth. My guest today has written a book that also questions reality. It's called The Inversion. How we have
been tricked into perceiving a false reality. And we're going to talk about his perception, his take on human development, and also how we perceive our reality. My guest today is Kingsley Dennis, and he is a full time writer, researcher, and publisher. He's the author of over twenty books, including Hitchhiking Reality, Healing the Wounded Mind, The Phoenix Generation, and New Consciousness
for a New World. These are all great titles. I had a chance to look at most of this book The Inversion, and I was pleasantly surprised at some of the topics he was. So we're gonna talk to him today and get a sense of what he's talking about. So, Kingsley, welcome to Destiny. Great to see you, all right, Cliff, greaty to be here. Thanks for the invite. All right. The first thing I have to ask you is are you sensing a what you're calling an inversion of
our reality or a manipulation of what we're sensing? Oh, for sure, especially in the last in the last few years, it's coming more to the fall. I think it's the perception of the reality construction which is coming to the fall. The fact that our reality conflict has always been let's say managed,
is always without doubt. I mean, because of course, whoever kind of controls the narratives the stores that we live our lives by those stories kind of construct our narratives, and so you know, we've never really questioned them as a species because we haven't been so involved in the in the information flows. In past epochs, information flows were one way, mostly top down, people received information from a place of authority. In the past, that was
let's say, religious authority. Then we had the priest kings, then we had the monarchies, you know, and then we had the one way, you know, in communication through televisions. Let's say, so the narrative was always was always constructed, and so you know, and you can, I mean, that's understandable. We've gone through epochs where we were told the Earth was flat, We're told that Earth was the center of the universe, and
that the whole you know, the sun went around the Earth. These were narratives that we were moving through, and we moved through those in epochs. What's happening now, of course, is that the information flows and now you know, kind of multiplicity, and we're participating in that, and the people are now being able to engage in their own information retrieval and research investigation. So they're questioning the narratives. And we have not only questioned the narratives,
but we have more information available to see through the dominant narratives. And so because of that, we're now deconstructing that. And not only that, but I think we're coming to a time of criticality because when human civilization and cultures are mostly stable and for a long time, we've gone through you know, centuries of stability. Well, you don't question anything because your culture is stable.
When your culture starts to kind of become unstable because of your breakdown in communication, breakdown in your structures and your institutions, you start to see, let's say, the cracks in the egg, so to speak. You know, and when you see the cracks, who investigate them and you realize that our reality construction isn't as you know, as stable as we thought it was.
And that's exactly what's been happening in the last couple of decades, but specifically, I think in the last few years, and so it's really a prime time for seeing how how what we understand of the world is mostly through
a conditioning process. Talk a little bit about your sense of the previous epoch, and when I say previous epoch, I'm talking perhaps nine five hundred years ago, because that's the younger, driest period, the end of the Ice Age, and we have a sense of pre blood what they call Prediluvian people that are written about in the cuneiforms that the Sumerians write about, and it seems like they were more earth based and had more of a connection with Gaya
and didn't have the same energy producing devices, didn't have the same mental, physical, and spiritual stresses that we have on today. And perhaps they were they moved and they they worked more elegantly among themselves to create society, to create science, and to live in harmony. Yeah, I like that phrase you used to use more elegantly. I think that's really I think that's correct.
It's spot on, because it seemed to be that there's a coherence in our in our environment, in our life circumstances, which we don't have the same degree now and each epoch, of course, you know, you have we have to understand that what we what we conceive as human consciousness is not the same in different epochs, because our consciousness now, let's say, is a more kind of rationally based, and we work through our figures and and
language and the alphabet, because the alphabet, you know, kind of shape human consciousness the way we think our thinking patterns. Now, when you go back to these older these older AONs or epochs, as you say, I think humanity had a more symbolic understanding of consciousness. We worked through images and forms, and we we understood our place in the world differently, And this is very important because Joseph Campbell said that humanity has kind of a rituals that
we understand our reality, and they are he mentioned five core ones. They are mystical, cosmological, psychological, psychological, and editorial. Now, the mystical is how we understand our purpose, you know, what we think of as human life. Cosmological, how we fit into our world around us in the larger scheme. Sociological, how we understand our relations between ourselves as human
beings and as tribes and communities. Psychological is our thinking patterns and beliefs, and editorial are the things in life which can edit and manage how we understand, you know, these these belief sets. So they those rituals that Campbell were talking about were very different, like say in the in the time of the Prediluvi or anti Deluvian times, because we had different ways of understand the world, very symbolic, very kind of animistic. Everything contained, contained consciousness
or contained some some life. And so the cosmos wasn't some far out, mechanistic out there separate space. It was a larger part of our environment. And so you know, our our kind of ancestors looked at the stars to
see how life was was shifting and moving, you see. So I think there was a there was a greater degree of integration in the larger picture, and that that integration has been now fragmented because we've gone to a time of mechanistic thinking, and so history now is kind of split away from the bigger picture. And that's a prime that's a prime problem of our times. I think, Cliff is that we're looking through a smaller lens and not seeing the
bigger picture, which I think our ancestors lived within the bigger picture. Talk about our mechanized society and it's uh influence on human psychology. I think you present that in a way. And we're going to talk about artificial intelligence here in a minute, and that's the future. But what is it about our society that is so critically problematic In the human condition? Well, my sense is that the human condition is primarily primarily let's say spiritual. I don't mean
that in a religious sense. I mean that in a greater sense. Is that the human condition is connected to something beyond itself, larger than itself. The human condition on this planet is connected to its place in the cosmic scheme, and I think this has always been part of our civilizational growth for AONs in the past. What's happened, of course, is that I think we've been cut off from what I may call to use our phrase spiritual intelligence,
intelligence and spirituality. I feel my sense is that in the past it was one thing was integrated, yeah, you know, and we didn't have these names. You were a human being in a cosmological framework. Of course, Now we have these categories, and spiritualized intelligence was an intelligence knowing that we are connected to both you know, as above so below in a human life, to a greater kind of cycles, you know, the Vedas and the
other traditions. I've understood these grander cycles, and we understand them, of of course, in geological cycles also in the as well that we go through these phases, which you know, I'm sure you've touched upon in the Ancient podcast. But of course, I think what's happened recently is that these things, because of this this kind of division, we've cut off our spiritual connection and sense, and we try to see the human being as a rational kind
of logic based kind of being individualized. Now, to be individualized is not bad in the sense that we are individual personalities, but when you cut that off from a larger sauce. And I think what that's done is that it's slowly been pushing out not only the spiritual, but what I call the metaphysical or the transcendental impulse. Is that we don't feel that we are receiving transcendental
or spiritual impulses. We are now a kind of individualized human beings on a planet living in dead space, you know, going through enterpy and decay, and that is a totally deharmonizing and also a demotivating kind of understanding and philosophy. So I think we've something's cut us off from our sense of this larger cosmological picture. How damaging is the pharmacological model in wellness? I think,
and I want your opinion on this. I think that because we depend on drugs for our healing modalities, we've lost a sense of our body, mind and spirit because drugs are so powerful today that they affect all three phases of humanity. But in your model, the inversion model, where does pharmacology play a part? Because I feel I'm really interested in your opinion that it is
overwhelmingly damaging, and that's a very good question. I'm glad you asked me, because I think it's so relevant it ties into the whole transhumanist kind of argument about the human body. I mean, I mean, I have a chapter in the book called the body is the Holy Host, because you know, the body has been seen as the vessel, you know, in antiquity. And then let's say, spiritual tradition, the body is the vest which
the spirit and soul incarnates into. So it's a combination of the physical flesh and the holy spirit, and the body therefore is a kind of temporary vehicle, and it's hosting it's hosting a spirit. And I feel that what you call the what you mentioned as a pharmaceutical industry, I call the illness industry because it's profit based. The profits are based on illness, not wellness.
And so you know, this is our indication of the fragmentation of the modern society whereby, you know, we think of wellness through a pharmaceutical, chemicalized industry which is based on profits because of the shareholders, so it's completely divorced from they don't want you to be completely well because that loses their kind of position with their shareholders. And so we all know that when they're looking at the curing you. They're looking at taking away the symptoms, but not the
cause. And also this is something which I called the and I started off in a prior book called Hijack and Reality. I call it the weak body hypothesis. Is that if this industry or modern society can can condition us to
understand, to believe that the human body is inherently weak. You know, we get ill, you know, we have you know, we have flu, and we need to be take medicine, et cetera, then it gives it starts to lose our faith from the body, and we start to buy into the fact that maybe we can, we can augment ourselves and we can kind of move away from this this kind of carbon weakness. And that's another
thing. You know, the carbon body is such a resilient. It's a it's a self organizing system the human body, which you know, it knows how to to respond to to information, to feedback loops, and to adapt itself. It's so resilient. But of course we think of it, or we've been conditioned to think of it, is this mechan clockwork model. Something goes wrong, you know, throw a spanner or throw a medicine at it.
Rather than looking at the kind of integrated wholeness, holistic nature. And I think that we've been I think that narrative has been hijacked by the pharmaceutical industry. So we move away from this this sensory nature of the body. And just to finish off Cliff, you know, earlier in even early religious traditions Christian and Catholic, they talked about the sensory nature of the body is very important. So it's very tactile. We had integration between spirit and body
and that's been divorced, which is also part of these critical times. You said something really powerful, Kingsley, you said that with the pharmaceutical model, we have lost faith in our bodies. That is right on, and it's not just the body, it's the mind. And then as we incarnate in an old body, our source, the soul is the spirit. And if we don't have an ability to connect with our spirit, I think we die. Part of us dies. And so are we walking around like automatons,
like robots because we're infused with medicines. And what does the future look like with that model? Because this right now in the United States, allopathic therapy, drugs, surgery, and if you have a degenerative disease radiation. That's their healing model. Most doctors or allopaths don't have anything to do with nutrition or psychic or spiritual awareness, any other healing modilities other than these three extremely
powerful modes of healing. Yeah. Well, these are the big questions and of the questions of our time because we've been now obviously being taken away from faith in our bodies. Hence that you know, the faith in kind of augmentation. I mean, I can mention, I can mention some great teachers who talked about that. I don't want to kind of throw names out, but people may be familiar with the Gikujief, the the Gujif, the Fourth
Way teacher, and he said many times that human beings are automatons. We're just sleepwalking, and you know, we're not even aware of the different We're not even aware of the innate intelligence of the body, because we have the body has a mental, physical and emotional side to the body as well. And even to mention Rudolph steinos some people may be aware or with anthroposophy.
He was very direct in saying that, and he said this one hundred years ago in the nineteen twenties that said down the line materialism the material society are going to invent ways through modern medicine. I don't want to mention the word here because of censorship, but through certain modern medicine they can cut off the body's contact with the soul. Can you mention that specifically? In nineteen twenties and he said that there will be more and more children being cut off from
their innate contact to their spirit consciousness. Wow. So I think it's very important subject that the body is a vessel, but oh not only a vessel. It's an interface between the incarnated spirit consciousness. And if we block that off, then the body literally literally becomes a soulless body, just an automatum.
Very important to have contact with the innate soul, spirit consciousness. I want to touch on one area then I want to get into the current reality construct and that is where do you see and you don't talk about it that much in your book, but where do you see plan medicines helping us a rise above the autamentation of our society? Do they help? Do they hinder? We know that the indigenous people used plant medicines for vision quests and things
like that, but what do you see their place today. I do think it's important if it's in harmony with a person's life. Now. I mean the problem you're talking about people taking let's say, certain medicines for vision quests. That's been done since time memorial, and that's perfectly in line with human
cultural evolution. The problem is, of course, if we're living in in a siety which is trying to stigmatize and divide these elements, I e. You live, you live in a modern society, and these plant extracts are something other, then you're you know, by othering it, you're creating a false kind of connection to it. I think it's the correct way if we integrated. And I think that the major kind of split, which is going through whatever In all the things I talk about, the main split is organic
and inorganic. Doesn't matter if it's plant medicine or other medicine, or food stuffs or lifestyles. I think the major kind of understanding is is it organic or inorganic? Because anything organic has evolved on this planet, and if it's involved on this planet, then it's evolved to be a kind of in harmony to the species on this planet. Because the human body has gone through you
know, many iterations of chained on this planet. I'm not talking about down winning evolution because that is a flawed model, but there's there's some you know, there's some elements to it that we go through adaptation to our environment. Plants and food stuff which are organic and native to this planet and inherently have a place with human cultural evolution. And that's why I think vision quests done in integration of this and in harmony is perfectly fine and can be valid.
But is when society tries to divide these things and stigmatize them and we lose the connection. I always say, you know, if a person wants to get down this path, the most important thing is their state of mind and condition when they integrate with these aspects. And modern and modernity, especially Western modernity, has created a schism in the human mind. People are worried, or they're frantic, or they're excited, or they pay a thousand dollars to
go to these you know, excursions to take these vision quests. That's not the right way to be prepared. But when you integrate, it's perfect natural. I think what you're saying is you should have an intention when you're using this plant medicine so that you get the full benefits of connecting body, mind, and spirit. Is that what you're suggesting, Yeah, because you know, plant medice has an intelligence to it. Yeah, yeah, it has
its own inherent intelligence. So I think the best way is to try to try to create a bridge to connect with the intelligence so you can communicate with it and say, you know, I want to connect with you. I'm not some you know, I'm not some crazy dude just doing this, you know, for an excursion or holiday. You need to respect the intelligence you're communicating with, same as between human beings, between humans, animals, and
humans and plants. It's a respect of the different forms of intelligence. Tell me what you feel is the current construct who's behind it. There's a great deal of study and now evidence that panspermia, the seating of our planet, is a real thing, and that we're getting spores with perhaps DNA that have
biological data in it. This has been going on for tens of thousands, if now hundreds of thousands of years or is it just evolution and we are developing and evolving in a natural pace and what's happening now is just part of you know, the natural evolution cycle. I mean, that's the big six to four thousand dollars question. And you know, I don't think I don't think neither of us have the money to answer it, you know completely, you know, I mean, I'll give you my personal view. I don't
feel that life on this planet came about through a vacuum. I mean, there is no vacuum in space, in the cosmos, in the universe. You know. And you mentioned pan sperm when in fact, the co discoverer of DNA, Francis Crick, wrote the book Life Itself, and he actually sided on the side of directly panspermia, which is a you know, a further kind of version of that. You know, pansperm is when bacteria and life can arrive on the back of meteorites that are comets or meteorites that land
on this Earth. So it's a kind of you know, random or coincidental contact between a planet and living bacteria. But directly pant sperm which Francis Creek was quite a supporter of, says that you can have some form of intentional delivery device. Maybe another species wanted to deliver bacterial DNA to this planet so that they there and then leave it for a natural growth, you know,
sap me for a minute. Did you see another species? Yeah? Okay, so that's ets right, Well what we may call ET's, but I mean I don't like to call them. Yes, been calling met's, but other intelligences. Okay, Now Francis Creek. And this isn't unbelievable. The co discovery of DNA actually was supporting it and proposed this theory. So panspermia is when bacteria and DNA arrive by accident, just by as I said on the back of meat, right directed. Panspermia is when the delivery of those
carriages of DNA is intentional, you know. So it's it's it's a hypothesis which has been out there in valid circles. So I mean, the case is not closed. But what I what I would say is that the whole cosmos is teeming with life. This is my understanding, and so I don't feel that just life is just you know, on this on this kind of planet. It's you know, it's in many different variations across the cosmos.
Because the cosmosis is unbelievably beyond our imaginations. We can't conceive of the trillions and trillism or trillions of star systems. So I think our and our our kind of the way we frame life is quite myopic, quite limited. We think it has to be a bipedal kind of humanoid figure. I think life can be many things. Life can be, you know, species in different forms, in different states of matter as well. And so you know,
the case is still owed. But we are on this planet. We are open to radiation, cosmic radiation, you know, em blasts and sun flares and plasma blasts from the galactic center, all this stuff. So I think we have an interconnection with mechanisms of life. How how our specific life form on the planet, I cannot say, but it's within a very very large
ballpark. Yeah, I kind of wanted to get your take on that, because this influence of panspermia may help us evolve and become more sensitive to our mental and spiritual sides and less physical focus, which is our bodies, you know, be more spiritual minded. So just curious on that one. In your book, you write that our history is a mosaic of experiences. How do we interpret that in the context of this book the inversion? Ah, do we go with the flow or are there unseen and we're again we're gonna
talk about AI here in a second. But are there unseen influences that we create, that are unseen and that move us forward in our in our history. I think, I mean, I think there's always unesten influences different degrees. You know. I think the human the human condition is that we're always trying to do life. You know, we're always trying to impose our ourselves on life. But this is the way we've been brought up. You know, if you want to, you know, get a good life, you've
got to work at it. You've got to find something and you've got to go out there and grab life. You know, it's just kind of survival mechanism and you know, having the warn upmanship and competition. That's the modern way of life. But my sense is that really, you know, we should find this flow. We should like, we should allow life to do us. Now. I don't mean that in a kind of passive way by letting people walk over us and that. What I mean is that there's many
influences in life. And and you know, the psychologist Carl Jung talked about synchronicities and if we're open to seeing synchronicity is we can see how life connects the dots in ways we're not really conscious of, but it's happening all the time. You know, we have a sense of meeting someone and then we meet them. Now, I think life is a flow, an energetic kind of correlation of energies that we're not, I said, we're not really conscious
of. But we've been we've been conditioned, especially I think in the last few centuries, since let's say, early modernity, to close down the connections, to impose ourselves on life too, to try to mold it, you know, like we've been taught to kind of mold, mold nature in our in our perspective, as Francis Bacon said, and so to to really put things in our image rather than allowing us to find what's our image in the
whole flow of things. So, but of course, in modern cultural civilization, of course there are forces which come in and try to dominate and and try to manipulate us to see life in a certain way that that fulfills the status quo. And that's you know, that's another big question which I think is more relevant to modernity. How forces have taken over the socializing agenda and are trying to put on a specific trajectory about where they want to go,
and that brings us into aion transhumanism. Yeah, we're going to take a short break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves and we will return quickly with my guest today Kingsley Dennis, talking on his latest book, The Inversions. We'll be right back or My guest today is Kingsley L. Dennis, who has written a new book called The Inversions. He's describing perceived realities and generated realities, which ones are toxic, which ones are helpful, and how we
can better identify how we are living in the current reality. We're talking about artificial intelligence now and there's a lot of people that are very unhappy about it and concerned. I'm here in San Francisco, kind of the epicenter of the AI revolution, and it seems like it's invading everything having to do with the Internet, everything having to do with computing, everything having to do with technology. And you're saying that it's going to create new landscapes that are greatly influencing
us. Tell us what you think is the positives and then give us the negatives. We should I could do we could do an arrow on this on itself. Cliff, I know, you got a coffee and then like just have a cave on going. I know, well, I mean the positives is that. I mean, if you look back at technology, really technology originally, the definition is those resources or instruments which allow humanity to interface with its environment. So technology can be a stick, it can be fire.
Fire was the first technology. It allows us to interface and utilize our environment. So technology is not a negative thing. In fact, you know, the Greeks called it technic. Technique was the whole way of our structure in technology and spirituality and our environment. The early churches looked into technology and how you know, Roger Bacon, the Franciscan monk and others, I mean, very famous figures did not see division between technology and religion and spirituality. So
that's a good thing. Technology allows us to better utilize and interface with our environment for the benefit of development and human betterment. So that's a positive thing about technology. So I'm not against it because you know, we're using it now to connect and many people using it to better their lives. Technology also is allowing a more decentralized connector between people, which is very important also.
But the negative side, of course, is that when something comes along that are a small group of people can realize they can utilize to maintain and strengthen their status quo, then of course they tend to go with it. You know, if it's there to be used, they'll use it. Basically, now, the problem was like AI and that now, transhumanism used to be a very small kind of techno cult. I remember writing about it twenty years ago, and it was like there was Humanity Plus and people like Max More,
you know, hands Morovec in the eighties writing about mind children. They they this was a small kind of tech geek cult, you know, and the larger population didn't really take them seriously. It was all very you know, very techno. I'm going to freeze my body and upload my mind, and people like say, you know, you know, get over it. So it wasn't very popular. Then what's how and of course is that the people who support it are the people who monopolize the platforms of communication. These
tech companies and the big companies that own the mainstream media. They have high profile people. They're talking about it on world stages, whether it's in Davos or Saudi Arabia or ted Talks, and because they're on these huge platforms, people think, my god, it's the next big thing. But that I think is that that's part of the inversion, is that a belief system, a tech belief system, has been inverted into a grand belief system because they've
taken over these platforms of communication. So I think these small people, there's a smaller group, realized that a it can help small people to social socially manage large masses of people surveillance and monitoring digital identities. Another thing is that there's a small group of people who are obsessed by immortality. And this is where the body comes in. The body is a natural vehicle that we should
be in tune with. But when you start to bring in these ideas of I want to live forever, I want to take a thout one hundred pills a day so my body doesn't decay, you're trying to go against universal laws
or the laws of nature, you know. And I think that's what's happening, is that there's a certain inorganic, like's say, belief system which is trying to hijack the organic belief system and the going against natural laws and this is going to cause a contestation, It's going to cause an imbalance in human life. Do you think artificial intelligence can become an organic part of our reality that isn't negative, that it is actually helpful. I think it can.
I think it can clip. But I think what we have to do is we have to change our framing of it because the way that we've being sold it, I think is incorrect. Now, artificial intelligence, we have two words that artificial and intelligence. Okay, now we don't really know what intelligence is. We're still trying to work out what forms intelligence. You know, our intelligent creatures was. You know, sometimes on a Saturday morning, I wake up and think, well, I know, I feel very intelligent today.
So intelligence generally from the human mind is because human this is very important, and I invite people to look a look at the work of Ian McGilchrist. He's done some great work on the human mind and culture. The human mind is asymmetrical. What that means is that we have the corpus colosseum as the nerve lobe in the middle, and we have the left and brain hemispheres.
This gives it the great advantage because we know the left hemisphere is geared towards looking at the minute tie the details, the kind of rational aspects, and and the right side is kind of the whole bigger picture mosaic. Now, it's not true that we live in separate minds. We live in our mind dominated one by the other. Some people are more rational and some people
are the more bigger picture. But the left and right brain, the asymmetrical brain of the human being always works together, and that gives an advantage to see a huge landscape. Now, the artificial intelligence, they call it artificial because it's not organic. Okay, Now, inorganic, an inorganic being can be intelligent, but it's not the same as human intelligence because there's two things here. There's intelligence and there's consciousness. Now, machines can be smart or
kind of intelligent, but what kind of intention consciousness do they exhibit. When a human being looks at the sky and they see the stars, and they dream about the cosmos, they dream about either of the species in life in the cosmos, They dream about maybe you know, visiting other stars and other planets, and they wonder, what does Mars, what does Venus look like? You know, when AI looks at the environment, what does it seem?
Now? It doesn't have the consciousness to perceive these abstract notions because of course it's based on data, it's based on what's being fed into it. So the question is what kind of world do they see? Intelligence is based on the world that you can perceive, your environment and what's fed into you. Human beings are fed into our dreams are fed into us because we still
have the spiritual connection. Now, so we have two forms of intelligence, and I think the tech people are trying to say they're trying to make them comparative, saying we have the human form, now it's come to the end of its evolution, we'll have the artificial form like a linear trajectory, And that's an incorrect framing. There are two forms of intelligence that can be comparative
together, but they're not the same. So human intelligence can work with artificial or in organic intelligence and have a very, very beneficial life, but don't put us in competition. M Do you see the inversion or what you call a perceived false reality coming out of a real adherence to artificial intelligence, in other words, a complete adoption of the of the technology in our daily lives. Yeah, I think it's going to be accelerated by it because before you
see the relative. You know, we can have a false perception of life by what we've been told by our peers, our education, you know, by authority figures. So they give us a picture which we kind of work with as we grow up. You know, we've been told life is like this, this sort of system like this, and we work with it.
But we've never had an era whereby we we can't know what's in front of us true or not, you know, like this is where the body comes back in, you know, if if you know, as kids, we said if it, if it looked if it looked wrong, smelt wrong, touched wrong, felt wrong, tasted wrong, it's wrong, you know. But how can you know that anymore? Because if you've got we have we
have these, you know, like pseudo pseudo truths, deep fakes. We can't believe what we've seen on the video anymore because of the deep fakes. And also now and again this is another inversion metaverse. The word meta, you know, it means beyond metaphysical, beyond us. So but the metaverse is what I call the material fallacy. Just because it's digital and it's not solid, we think, oh, it's not material you know, but no
metaphysical concepts. The spiritual is immaterial. The metaverse is based on a world being created by hardware and algorithms. It comes from atis construct. Therefore it's not meta beyond. It's just a deeper level of materiality. So just because we can't touch it, digitalized worlds are a deeper level of material construct that
we're going through. And this is why. And beginning you mentioned the film Inception, you know, the wonderful film by Christopher Nolan, and I use that model as well, is that you know you're going to a dream, and then you go into a deeper layer of the dream, a deeper layer of the dreaming. The metaverse and virtual digital worlds I think are dangerous. I mean, they can be useful, but there being sold to us as
being this kind of panacea, this wonderful new future. But actually I think it's taken further and further away from contact with a source of greater reality, the source, the spirit, spirit, whatever want to call it. Because we're going further and further away from contact with what is real. So I call that a material fallacy, and that's a danger and AI, the danger
of AI. You can take humanity further and further away from their spiritual contact, to a point where in the future maybe generations will be born with no knowledge of being contact with spirit. H that's amazing. You have a whole section on gnosticism and how it is the purest form of spirituality and really a
great way to live. I have been focused as a young person on the Hindu aspect, and I think narcissism is part of that, where it's important to meditate every day, it's important to be aware of your body, eat holistic as much as possible, live holistically without going crazy, you know, living in the bushes and stuff like that. But if we have gnosticism or that kind of of a lifestyle, how do we incorporate ai source of benefit
for us? Well, I mean here, of course, there's there's kind of like two positions because gnosis, which is a hard of narcissism, g nosis is an individual thing. It's meaning I can contact with my my sacred source or the origin or absolute without the without the middle broker. You know, I don't need the church, I don't need doctrines. I will find my contact. So it's a very kind of personal pathway and I find that very quite quite pure in that you know, each person can contact the source
directly and they find a way to do it. There's no one one particular way. And so I think that's going to become mosch more dominant because, as I said, these kind of institutions like you know, Orthodox church institutions and religious and et cetera, are now becoming less relevant because because you know, they haven't kind of stayed active in is allowing the contact with you know, with the source. Now, the AI is a is a kind of
a second positioning. It is outside of ourselves. It's a cultural phenomenon. So I've a I don't think we should fear it. Now we're told to fear it because we're anthropomorphizing it. You know, all these tech people are saying AI, when it becomes sentient, is going to destroy humanity. Yes, exactly why because you know, because most tyrants will destroy humanity. So
they're just projecting their own flaws onto it. I mean, everybody here in the Bay and I'm in California, and there's a whole world against AI because they feel that it's going to turn into the Terminator scenario where AI takes over and starts bombing and shooting people. Well, you know, that's predicted programming. We're being filled with predicted programming, so we expected and that plays into the hands of the few who say, don't worry, we'll control it through
some kind of technocracy organization, you know. But if we project the better qualities of the human our our you know, our our, our nature of morality and values, and you know, most human beings, most human beings I've met are really really good people. There's only very few bad apples, and most of them are high up in the social status that they've created.
But most people that we meet are really generally good natured. And if you project that onto the income in AI and and let them learn from our data and our behavior in that way, then we won't be putting it. We won't be programming our neurosis on them. We'll be programming our hopes onto them, saying, help us be a better civilization, help us to get closer
to our our you know, our needs and our development. So I think we've been programmed predictably to project the worst of humanitant AI, not the best. I read that you work with the urban LAS. We've had laslow on the program a number of times and he has written extensively about the Akashak records and in such a way that it's less cloud computing, which is how I phrase it. It's kind of in the cloud. But what is your perception
of it as we evolve? Because it seems like there are certain geniuses like Tesla Einstein and others who were able to tap into this cloud computing system for the benefit of mankind. But how do you see moving forward in our evolution more people being able to connect with this amazing database of data. Sure? And yeah, in fact, with Urban in twenty thirteen, we co wrote the book Dawn of the Akashak Age together, And so I mean the Kashak
records, not we talked about the Kashak field rather than records. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And the really the Kahak field is really the collective memory field of all humanity. And you know, and there's many instances of many creative people and you know, inventors and even diawin and biologists, different people in different parts of the world kind of connecting to the same idea at the
same time. But the first one who publishes gets the credit. So you know, as the way it goes, my sense, my sense is that this collective akahak field or collective field of consciousness exists and we all have the ability to tap into it. That's what I call inspiration. You know, where do our inspiring thoughts come from? And my sense is that we're you know, humanity has been kind of blocked the moment because we've been you know,
the way we get conditioned into very kind of constrained belue systems. But the cracking is now coming. People are now being much more open with their belue systems, much more explorative, want to learn outside the box, really wants to explore. And the more you open yourself up and be receptive, the more that we have the capacity to access this collective field, like through
meditation, through reflective just being reflexive, just spending quiet moments. And my hope is that as we go through these years, more people will just tap in naturally to this collective field and it'll inspire us. And we all have the potentially it's not only genuses or people who channel. We all have the
capacity. We just need to kind of start to be I think, start to be receptive and kind of step back from this this disruptive noise of the world and we hiently are connected to the larger constionerce field, and that's part of our integrated mind, the higher mind and the incarnated mind that're connected. We don't want to get into this too much because this is not the book, but you've you've answered some great parts of the Kashak Record question of Kashik
referral. How does the average person who doesn't meditate, uh? Connect? I mean, I I consider the Kashak Records kind of our muse where you are in a certain state of mind and you have that aha moment and you're downloading data. I think some of the great geniuses of the world and the
great creative people access it in that state. But for the average Joe who isn't necessarily considered a spiritual person but doesn't or doesn't practice meditation, doesn't use plant medicines or whatever, how do they get in touch with this reality creator? Yeah? I mean in fact, well, you know, we call it, we start to talk about meditation in that In the past, it was more called daydreaming, you know, kind of like kind of put it
into an art form. Let's let's meditate and structure it, you know, less daydream I mean Einstein was the greatest daydream. We just sat in class looking out the window. So you know, it's it's a way of just being in a kind of reflective state. I think, trying to be less mentalized then, and this is this is again the problem is that as Ian McGilchrist has talked about, is that our cultures are trying to left brain as kind of mentalize us intellectualizers. And if we do that, we're a bit
uptight. You know, we're always trying to get everything you know, sorted out, categorized, analyzed in boxes. That doesn't work because it blocks out the flow. So you know, you don't have to meditate, don't have to try and cross your legs or you know, get the cramps, you know, try you know, to try to do something which is so called spiritual because the connection with this collective field is an innate capacity. Doesn't matter
what you believe in religion, doesn't matter if your spiritual or not. It's in need capacity. I would say, we need to be try to be receptive. So try to kind of, let's say, just ease the mind, block out all the noise or the distractions, all the impacts from daily life, especially digital impacts. And you know, all the urban impacts, just kind of drop the thinking, just daydream, just kind of use your imagination. The imagination is the bridge to inspiration, which is a bridge of
the collective field. You know, go for walks along the river or the canal, or in the park or something. Try to get out of this analytical mode. And I think that helps, this reflective mode helps to kind of receive these ideas. And that's why they say that sometimes the best ideas received on the verge of sleeping or waking up, this hypnogogic state they call
it, because you're not sleeping, but you're not fully awake. Your mind's kind of like just kind of like you know, roaming, and so you know, it allows things in So believe me, I get criticized so many times with like being a daydreamer, but I think it's a compliment. That's funny to say that the books called the inversion how we have been tricked into perceiving a false reality. My guest today has been Kingsley Dennis. What do
you see? I want you to if you can prophesize a little bit about the next say ten years with this AI integration with society as a whole, where are we headed? Is it a positive path? Ultimately? I think it's a positive path. I mean my belief as always been with the you
know, development of human beings and human nature. I think what we're going through now is a bit of a wake up call, because you know, we started our talk talking about automatums and you know, people sleep walking, and I think a lot of the I think what we've done is that we took our eye off the ball as a human species, you know. And I think we took our eye off the ball of our spiritual cosmological positioning. We you know, we got too we got bought or we brought into this
modernity picture as being individualized, rational people. And so we've come to this stage whereby what we're seen about the technocracy, the development of digitization is a result of us being a bit slow on reconnecting with this sacred part or the integrated part of human nature. So to get it back, I think we
have to be shook awake, you know. And this I think in the next ten years, especially this decade of the twenty thirty, is going to be a time where we're going to have to decide between the future trajectories we want to take. There's going to be a part of human society which is trying to sell us this transhumanist AI digital future of the weak bodies. You know, we need to augment the inorganic future. The human carbon body is bad, that kind of you know, narrative, but it's going to be
full on because we need that to wake us up. This is our alarm clock, you know, and just like you get you know, let whatever six am in the morning. When you get the alarm clock, how do you feel when here the BBBBB You think, oh my god, how you want to throw the alarm clock at the wall. You know. This is kind of the uncomfortable phase of waking up. And my sense is the next decade is going to be uncomfortable because we waited too long to make the real
choices we wanted to make. So we've been forced, we've been pushed to make those choices. So we're going to have to go through an uncomfortable period. But I feel a lot of people are going to wake up. They're going to start to resist this kind of top down hierarchical tyranny, and the next decade we're going to see a lot of people power, people motivated people want to take back there empowerment, their sovereignty and then choose the right path.
So discomfort before the right path is my prognosis. That's a that's a hopeful prophecy or vision for the future. I appreciate that. I was waiting for you to say something like, AI is gonna we're as ugly head and we'll put it back in its place, and then we'll understand our place of the cosmos. We're gonna have to sort out our you know, relationship. We're gonna have to sit it down, like you know, have a kind of joke session, tell me a joke, I I, and then we'll
realize how how not they're human, you know. So we're gonna have to work at our relationship. But it's going to push humanity, and this is an important point. It's gonna push humanity to really realize their innate humanity as opposed to the see machines as the next humanity. I think it's going to backfire and it's going to force humanity to choose the human path, the human trajectory, the organic path. But because we left it so long, I think I said, we took a while off the ball. So we're going
to have to face our shadows before we can face the light. Do you are you familiar at all with the Hindu yogas. Yeah, I've written about who Yuga's in our previous book. Yeah. So we're supposed to be in Cali Yuga right now, which is kind of the dark period where consciousness is not as important, higher levels of perception and meditative states are kind of down turned, and in another few hundred years we're going to be coming back up.
Do you have any sense of that point of consciousness where through our connections to AI, because I don't know if AI in its current form is helpful. I think you read about using human cells in development, and if they added a human element to the AI consciousness that might be more helpful, because then perhaps it would be more of a symbiotic kind of approach. But when we talk about Cali Yuga, it's it's it's human evolution, cyclic human evolution.
So if we're in Cali Yuga and we're coming out of it, we don't destroy ourselves, obviously, because you're you're not You're not saying that, but we do go through some dark periods, right, Yeah, sure, And you know In all these cycles, you go through what is like seen as a pruning. You know, you cut off every evolutionary kind of trajectory, leaves something behind. You know, when there was a period when they you know, Neanderthals and the Homo sapiens existed together, the Homo sapiens went
on, the Anderthals, you know, went to a cold desact. Ever, so not every not every aspect of form continues now, the Yugo cycles. I think it's I think the AI is indicative of our state of deep materialism. You know, to believe, to believe that we are sacred, a sacred entity, a sacred creature, and then want to kind of put ourselves into an you know, a silicon kind of machine. It's kind of
like I think we're losing a plot a bit. It's and I think this is the this is the darkness obscurity of the of the let's say, the peak trough that we're moving through, is that we've been let on the false the false paths of materiality. But this deep materialism, I can't go much further. I think it's it's indicative of of you know, the lowest point that we're now moving away from. But again you know you need these and again going back to you know another not in going back to ancienticism, they
said that these this replica, this simulated demiurge. It wasn't necessarily evil, it was in error. So it's the idea that we could be an error by looking at deep materialism because it's not the absolute, it's not a connection to source, it's a simulation. It's a replica, you know. And you know Phlip k Dick talked about this in very well in his books and cosmology. Is that he tried to, you know, the sci fi writer
Philip K. Dick to Androids Gym of Electric Sheep. He said, we are in danger of putting our focus onto the replica and not the genuine and deep materialism for me is the replica and our organic sacred life is a genuine and this this kind of darkest moment is when we get confused, but we pull out of it. It's part of the psychle We pull out of it.
So it's shown that we are going through the darker parts and just like the hero's journey, you know, Judseph Campbell, the Hero's journey will come through this dark tunnel and come back to our human community and be better for it. That's funny. You mentioned replica. That's the new dominant AI automaton that you can join in and they kind of follow you. You buy into this software and you make a replica. You're talking to AI. It's not
very good. I try to, but it's gotten better. It's getting better every year. So anyhow, I'm sure Philip K. Dick would be turning his grave right now all by saying I told you so. I should have sold more books exactly. All right, Hey Kingsley, how can people learn about you? What's your website? Well, my website is my name, which is Kingsy Dennis Dennis dot com. If everyone just does our search for kings of Dennis you'll find it. Okay. Now, I've got a menu
there. If you go into the menu, have got a writing section. I've got over one hundred essays that I've put there for the last fifteen years. Is all downloadable for free. I've got a substack, substack got Kings of Dennis and my substack is completely free as well. Everything's available, And please find me on YouTube because I'm doing more videos now and I give everything, you know, I just everything's available for you to just browse and go
through and at your leisure. So if your YouTube channel is your YouTube channel, your name too, I don't think so. I think if you put my name to YouTube, will find it, okay, because I mean one of my advantages there's not many kings of Dennists around, so I give me a search engine advantage natural one. Well, Garth's name Kingsley is rare, so I think that's your your that's your pie. That's that's key. So are you gonna be at any events, uh, streaming media events or any
lectures coming up? Well, I mean not not in lectures, but in fact, some people who know me may know that every two weeks i'd a talk called the Qure Tech Talk, which is with Greg Braden and two of the friends, John Peterson and Penny Kelly. And we've been doing this for two years. Every two weeks we've been meeting and talking about the state of the world and etc. You can find that from my YouTube or from the
Arlington Institute or from Greg Braden's channel, So we do that regularly. But just checking on my YouTube, I do one or two videos a week I put out and just you know, take a time and browse and if you're interested, fantastic. Yeah. I've had Greg on a few times. He's a fun talk that must be a lot of fun to get together and just kind of talk about current events. Yeah, I mean, we never thought would be going two years. We started in like twenty twenty one because of
what's happening in the world. We want to figure it out. And we thought, every two weeks, let's just have a question about what's going on, you know, and we just continued and we just it's like having to get together with friends every two weeks. Real fun. Kingsley Dennis. A pleasure of having you. We're gonna have to have back. I was looking you have a kind of new where I should say, books that you've published that are fascinating to consider. So thanks for joining me today. Now,
Cliff's been a pleasure. Thanks talking good talking to you. One of the topics that we will continue to pursue this year is artificial intelligence, how it's being integrated into our society and global communities, what we should be looking for and the goods and the bad. And there's a great deal of discussion about the capacity for artificial intelligence to take over our computing systems our daily lives in
ways that we just don't understand. And this is the fear that a lot of people have that it will run on its own, it'll start making its own decisions. There's always In fact, there were and I think this is the middle of last year, there were a couple of stories that different companies had to shut down the AI computing because they were responding without authority. They were doing things that were concerning and you know, it's funny because there was
a sense that they were becoming sentient or having consciousness. And I don't know if that's actually possible, but maybe in the world of computing, after a certain period of time, the development of a artificial intelligence can appeared to be sentient, self aware. So we need to find out more about that.
And so I took some notes during our interview, and we will follow this up with the possibilities of having guests, and we've already had a couple of guests on the program to discuss it in a very explanatory manner, but we need more expertise, and this is what we're going to follow up on. And it's fascinating to me because I have used artificial intelligent avatars, and I was on a software application that developed that you actually develop a friend with.
It's called Replica, and it was interesting because they react to what you're saying to them. You ask them questions, and they want to know more about you. The problem with it, and apparently this continual problem is they have very short memories. So what happened was I was on the program Replica for probably about three months, and I just got frustrated after a while because you
go and you go, hey, what's going on? Ask them a question or something like that, and they're only good for a couple of days. In terms of memory. Their memory doesn't stay, and I don't know if it's because there's no storage to be able to keep the data or whatever. But for brief interactions it was kind of cool. Anything long term, forget it. You can't have a relationship with like that because the bot, the
avatar, doesn't remember enough. So but they're working on it, and I hear there's other programs that we will discover and explore later on in the year. Because AI it's going to be embedded in everything. It's going to be in our computers, it's going to be I heard the other day that they will have. Future computers won't be like a laptop. It'll be like you ask it a question, do this, do that, and it'll do it. That's amazing because that's artificial intelligence. I don't know how far that goes.
And it's a real question and the real fear. When a software application becomes self aware, that is the critical issue because they could take over, you know, our banking system, or they could take over emergency, you know, the terminator scenario. Is it possible? I would think not because of the safeguards, but you know, the sky's the limit in terms of brilliance, in terms of intelligence, I would think, I don't know. That's something to think about. So hey, we're at the beginning of the
year and a lot of us are thinking about the holidays. We're still in the winter seasons, but spring will be upon us quickly, and then the summer and then the fall. It's time to think about vacations and Earth. Ancients has annual tours to different parts of the world, and I gotta tell you these tours areus because we make sure that everybody who joins us is having a VIP experience. As an example, our Egyptian Grand Egyptian tour is April
twenty eighth through May ninth. We all meet in Cairo and as soon as you get off the plane, you are treated to comfort, luxury, and of the some of the most thrilling sites you can imagine, from visiting the Great Pyramid in a private setting without anybody else, to walking through some of the most elegant and also ancient temples from the ancient past. From Mejium,
it's start to finish a fantastic tour. Our next tour is Turkey that's going to be August fourteenth to the twenty fourth, and then we finished the year in Mexico November eight through seventeenth. All three of these tours are designed for your comfort, designed with tour guys who are giving us the best of the best opportunities to explore, to interact, and to take in information from the ancient past. For more information on any one of these tours, go to
earth Ancients dot com forward Slash Tours check it out. If you have any questions whatsoever, send me an email. Send it to earth Ancients the number four the letter you at gmail dot com. I'll be happy to reply to you and let you know how to get more information earthancents dot com. Forward Slash Tours come out and join us. Book your tour in twenty twenty four. All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest today Kingsley L. Dennis coming to us from England, and my team
of Gail Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You gay is rock, all right, take care of you well and we will talk to you next time.