Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, how are you. This week we're looking at divination divination tools. In the past, we have talked about and had authors talk about astrology using the ruins. Those are the stones that you toss iching the Toureau cards. We haven't had anybody speak on the Ouiji board because the Ouigi board has been around over one hundred years. But when I say divination tools, this is a way to connect with
our higher wisdom. We have questions about our direction. We have questions about work, relationships, problems that we just cannot solve. And in the hustle and bustle of our lives, you know, working relationships, kids, family obligation, obligations, it can blur our thinking, it can blur our vision. And today we're going to present a new divination tool. It's not new, it's been around for over one hundred years, very very old, and
this is pendulums. And this is a way to really zero in on what's best for you, what your higher wisdom. That can be your higher self, it can be your guidance, It can be connecting with the if you want to call them angels or special beings that are surrounding you in this in this incarnation, to get insight, to get an inner knowledge that is beyond your comprehension, beyond your
ability to focus on because again it's been blurred. Your ability to make rational decisions at some point in your life could be blurred by the pressures, by depression, by just feeling just having a sense of unknowing. And you want to zero in on an answer, and a pendulum is a really great way to say, to find a yes or no question. And also I found when I
use my pendulum, you could have a maybe. And typically a pendulum is a crystal, it could be a copper or gold or a silver, semi precious precious metal piece of jewelry that has a point on it, and it's
connected to a chain. And you hold the pendulum in one hand, you close your eyes, and you ask a question, and out of the blue, the pendulum will start moving either forward and backward, which can be yes, or sideways, which is a no. That's how I work it, That's how my higher wisdom says, Okay, buddy, this is what we're gonna say to you, and you can actually form some fairly serious questions about your life and get a
basic answer. Now you don't go out in complete a task, or make a serious investment or sign a contract without a little more information. But the pendulum begins helping you focus down into a question, a situation, a problem that you're unable to resolve at that time. I use pendulums when I have a problem or a question that seems fuzzy and you have to quiet your mind. You just don't pull out a pendulum and start working with it when you're sitting in a passenger seat of a car,
because you have to have quiet. You have to have no movement, because you have to give the body and the connection, because what you're doing is you're plugging into the higher wisdom a chance to respond to you. And if you're moving around, if you're in a busy place, if you are distracted by music, by noise, by the ambience of wherever you're located, it's not going to work and you can't plug in. Part of a pendulum is also dowsing. You can use dowsing where you're looking for water.
You hold two metal rods in each hand, and you're moving and you're closing your eyes and you're asking for connection with it can be water. You're searching for water, you're searching for a location. Some people use pendulums to find artifacts, so and that's another way to dows. But today we're talking about pendulums and intuition, and this is very important because the intuition is the critical part of our sense, one of our senses that we can use
to improve our existence. We can get answers. And when we use a pendulum, that's the way to go. We're actually focusing in on our higher self, this higher wisdom that we were born with. So today's program is pendulum's and intuition, practical advice for trusting your inner wisdom. And my guest is Katrina Miller. Hey, you probably hear about all these amazing locations, these ancient sites we visit on Earth, ancients and here on Destiny, but I got to tell
you there's nothing like being there in person. And we have a number of tours that we schedule every year, some in far lands like Turkey and Egypt, but some are closer to home, like Mexico. And we have a great tour coming up in November, the Sacred Maya Temples of the Yucatan. It's November eighth through the seventeenth of
this year, one week of intense exploration. This tour is designed for those of you who really want to connect with these ancient places, feel an affinity to the Maya, and just want to see a close and personal what a pyramid looks like, what it feels like, how you connect with them in the Tolleric energy. For more information on our upcoming tour, go to Earth Ancients dot com, Forward slash Tours and look for the banner to Mexico. Got to tell you this is gonna be a good one.
We're going to be going to Ushmol, Tichiniza, Loabna, Sail and every place we go to. You can connect by sitting, by meditating, by connecting with these sacred locations. And there's nothing like climbing to Mayan pyramid and sitting at the very top and getting bathed in this wonderful energy. Again, come out and join us. It's November eighth through the seventeenth of this year. Go to Earthacients dot com, Forward slash Tours and get all the information. We have another
interesting show today. It deals with intuition and pendulums, and we haven't spoken about pendulums really ever here on Destiny and they are a tool that I believe, and we'll learn more about it today with our guests that go back very very far. My guest today is Katrina Mueller and she is the co founder of art Centric Divine Creations, a pendulum and coaching collaborative, and she's actually it's interesting we were just talking. She came from corporate world and
followed her heart and developed this company. And I have, like I mentioned, I haven't had anybody speak about metaphysical tools. We'll just call that metaphysical spiritual tools like pendulum. So I'm looking forward to this interview. So Katrina, welcome to Destiny. Great to see you.
Thanks Cliff. I'm super excited to be here talk about pendulums and how everyone can use them to really live their life.
Let's get into it. So here, you are working in the corporate world nine to five, all that goes with that. What shifted you to the point where you decided to leave that and began working with pendulums and creating your own, your own company with your partner at Lana.
Yeah, I had a great question, Thanks for asking. Yeah, I spent over three decades in corporate I have an MBA. I am what you would call your classically trained marketer. I worked for a lot of consumer package goods companies, marketed a ton of food, and I went out on my own as a consultant over a decade and a half ago because lots of different reasons, I wanted a little bit more flexibility in my life, and I also really truly wanted to make a difference and build stronger
relationships with my clients. So I became an independent consultant. But the work that I did was essentially the same as I did as a you know, marketing director, and I continued to work with a ton of C level executives. And as I go in, I go on site to companies, and as I go in there, I would always establish a really strong bond and a really good relationship with my clients. So not only was I solving their business problems or helping them develop their next growth strategy, I
also became their coach. I became their business coach, I became their life coach. I helped them navigate the issues with the board of directors.
This more you were working in the corporate world m hm, So you actually developed more of a personal relationship interesting with my clients.
Yeah, so I'm looking you know, I'm looking at you know, what I've been doing. And the parts of my work that was the most satisfying were the coaching pieces, Like when I really truly helped my clients not just drive business growth, I was able to help them transform their lives, not just their professional lives. But you got to look at the whole person, right, so you've got to be able to help them, you know, with all aspects. So I was always like that safe space, right, Like I'm comming,
I'm a consultant. I'm safe to work with because I'm not really playing politics. I'm not out to get anybody's corporate job, so it's easy to confide in me, right. So I loved coaching people to really get to their truth, to understand what their values are and how to live their life, their business, their professional life, and their personal life from their heart center, from a place of you know,
the values that really truly matter to them. And it's a brave thing to do because you know, we're so conditioned by society to not do that.
Yeah, I have to say that it's interesting to hear how you went beyond just the business of numbers and getting the client's business to being on a more of a personal and I'm interesting to hear what that means, more of a personal relationship. Are you sitting there across the desk from them and going, what's going on with you today? What's going on with your mind? I mean, because that's kind of personally So you have to have a unique clients to kind of say, hey, will you
shut up? I don't want to talk about that.
Well, you know what, they're the ones to start offering it up because oh, okay, yeah, because I just I'm that safe space like I come in, I'm not judging. I am clearly there to be of service, and I am there to help transform their business, but I'm also there to help transform their life.
In your relationship where they're kind of feeling I can talk, I can I can open up to her, right, which is kind of cool, which means that you are a shaman, aren't you?
Maybe in a past life?
Yeah, I'm kind of teasing you, right.
Who knows. I just I just love to make a difference. Yeah, And when I can make a difference, that's beyond the business. That is so much more rewarding to me. And when I realized that I was so drawn to the coaching aspect of my business practice, I decided that I am going to go and become legitimate. I'm going to go get certified as a life coach. And the perfect time to do that was during the pandemic.
Yeah I read that interest right, Yeah.
So I signed up to get my certification. Everything was over zoom, and I'm taking my certification classes and there's all these other great people that are meeting meetings through this program over Zoom, and one of those people was my business partner, Lana, and we just started like we were I think divinely guided to just kind of, you know, get together and start collaborating because we were being placed in breakout sessions together when we were getting our life
coaching certifications and it's like, oh, it's you again, Hello. So when we could actually meet in person, we started collaborating. From a professional standpoint, We're like, Okay, now that we're both certified life coaches, let's help each other and build out our coaching practices and do some do some corporate work.
And so we started doing that. We started doing corporate coaching, and I think there was a time where I was trying to make a decision and Lana I asked me, have you ever thought of using a pendulum to help you make your decision? And I looked at her and I say, what is a pendulum? And so she showed me using like her necklace. Was anything weighted on a string and be a pendulum? She showed me what you how to use a pendulum? How do you calibrated for
you yes, movement, for your move no movement? And then how do you ask questions? And one of our hobbies at that point was to make beaded bracelets just for fun, because we wanted to take a break and just do some crafts. So I'm like, you know, think you now, I got all these crystal and jumped one beads, I'm gonna go like figure it out. I'm gonna go make a pendulum. So I bought some craft supplies. I made a pendulum for her. I made a pendulu for me.
I'm like, now we can ask all the questions. So we started making them for fun, just for fun, and our friends and family got really curious, what is this? And before you know it, you know we're making them for friends and family and we were asked to do some trunk shows and pop ups at like local boutiques and galleries and we're like, okay, we could try this,
this this could be kind of fun. And we tried it and realized that people were really really curious, and they were able, and they were willing to pay a bunch of money for a pendulum, and they wanted not just a pendulum, but you know the real reason was that they wanted a pendulum was because they wanted to create a connection with themselves, create this bond in a way to go within and really truly figure out what is their truth. That is the biggest thing we noticed.
So we're like, okay, how can we shift our business where we can help as many people as we can find their truths. Because when people find their truth, and when people are ready to act on their truth and live their life from a place of their sovereign selves, the world becomes a better place.
Amazing. What is a pendulum? Talk about the intricacies of it, and as you're describing it, also describe the kinds of pendulums there are.
Yeah, well, you know, anything weighted on a strain can be a pendulum. You can make your own pendulum. You could buy a pendulum on Amazon, you could buy a pendulum from heart Centric, anything weighted on a strength in a pendulum. What we truly believe is that you want to have a strong connection with your pendulum because it becomes an extension of you. It is your tool to tap into your intuitive wisdom and develop your superpower, which
is your intuition. And when you're drawn to your pendulum, when you're connected to it, you tend to want to use it. If you're not connected to your pendulum, it'll probably sit in your drawer and you're probably not going to do anything with it. But the thing, the crazy thing that Lana and I have learned, is that your pendulum finds you. So we have done literally hundreds of events in person, events where we watched over and over
and over. Our pendulums have basically like jumped into our customer's hands where the minute they pick them up, they're like, this is going home with me, doesn't matter what the price is. I'm super connected. I need this, this is my tool. So that's the biggest piece. It's just like, don't underestimate the importance of having a strong connection with your pendulum, and it could be one that you make yourself, but it's just a tool that you want to be
able to go to again and again. I use mine all day long.
Some of the classic Turn of the century pendulums are just metal with copper tips and pieces of on a chain. Yeah. How far back to pendulums go? How far back have you found references to pendulums in history?
You know, we kept digging and digging, and we just you realized that we could go back, as you know
too before like written history. Because pendulums are also tools that have been used in conjunction with the dowsing rods to dowsing, yeah, dowsing, Yeah, to dows for underwater resources such as such as our underground resources such as water or minerals you could dowse for for you know, you've if you've heard of people dowsing with water to be able to figure out how to where to dig a well that has been around, you know, clearly for thousands
of years, because then you know how people find water if it wasn't with tools such as dowsing rods so or other minerals. And it's just it's a way of our body acting as an antenna and receiving a signal that is completely not perceptible to our conscious mind. So it's one of those things that's just like what is going on, But if you are open to it and you're receptive to it, you receive a signal and you find underwater underground resources like minerals or water or whatever
it is that you are searching for. So you know, those tools have been around for thousands of years. I mean, they've been used in wars to find like underground tunnels, They've been really by police forces to find missing people. You know, finding missing objects is one of those things that you know, people have used pendulums for forever. They're the uses are really truly like so extensive and endless.
And where we tend to focus in is kind of getting people at their like early on in their journey to themselves. And what I mean by that is like it's like, you're curious, you want to develop your intuitive mobilities, you don't quite know where to start. You've heard about clairvoyance or clear cognizance, you don't really know what it is, but you are just ready to take the next step
of your journey. So what we do is we catch people that like at that moment where they're curious and they're willing to try something new, and we use them to really truly help people connect to their intuition. So what we teach is not doubting. We feel like there's other people, there's pros who can do that. We teach people the pendulum basics of how to program your pendulum for your yes movement and your no movement so that you can see you can ask all kinds of questions.
You can ask a question, is it optimal for me to order pizza for dinner tonight? You'll get a yes or no. So whatever your question is, it could be a small as is it a good idea for me to go to the Starbucks strive for you to get coffee this morning? Or is it time for me to quit my nine to five job and start my own business. You can go as shallow or deep as you want to.
The answers are already within you and this is just a matter of you extracting your truth through the power of your intuitive wisdom.
Let's talk about the action of a pendulum. The body, the human, the user is the I don't know how you describe the action, and then the pendulum is the tool to present the data. So it's the title of the book is Pendulums and Intuition. So, by the way, the subtitle is practical Advice for trusting your inner wisdom. So talk about how the two interact with each other, and how the the what where the data is coming from, the answers, the questions, the whatever you want to get.
Yes, a good, good question, because we get asked this all the time. So imagine your conscious mind versus your subconscious. Right, So you're subconscious, it just it runs all your programming. You don't think about breathing. Your subconscious is running back for you. When you're driving your car. You're not really thinking about it. You know how to do what you've
been programmed to do it. So your subconscious stores all your experiences, all your learnings, every class you've taken, every book you've read, every conversation you've ever had, every emotion you felt. All of that data is inside of us. But our conscious mind cannot easily tap into that wealth of knowledge that is available to us already for every day decision making. Our conscious mind is ego driven. It's going to send us on this analysis journey. Is this a good idea, do I go here? Do I not
go here? What if this happens? What if that happens? Right? And then we make a decision and sometimes we tend to regret it or wonder did we make a right decision? Well, what if you never had to do that because you tapped into your truth and just knew that the decision you were making was the right decision for you. So what a pendulum really does taps into that repository of the information that you already have stored within you and your subconscious It's a matter of really truly knowing how
to ask the questions the right way. And when you tap in, what happens is you are sending this signal. It's an imperceptible signal that you are completely unaware of, but it sends it through your arm as you're holding your pendulum. It's called the idiomotor reflex, and it sends a signal to have the pendulum move a certain way to answer your question. So, at the very basic level, your answers can be yes or no. Your answers could be also maybe, or your answers could be not now,
which means you're not ready to receive that information. So as default, you will be asking your questions and the answer will come from your sub conscious.
Now is there You're talking about the subconscious, but are there other influences like your higher self entities that are surrounded you, like your guidance, your keepers.
Yeah, that come too. Yes. So here's the here's the difference. So when I said, as a default, you will be connecting with your subconscious and a lot of our you know, people that we talked to, a lot of our customers are like, Okay, this is what I'm comfortable with, and they're not necessarily ready to go beyond. If they're comfortable to go beyond. And you want to connect with your higher self, you want to connect with your guides, you
want to connect with your angelic team. All you have to do is invite them, and you can do that with your pendulum. Just say it with your intention. I'm inviting my optimal divine team to connect with me during my pendulum session and ask them if they are there with you, and you will get an answer. You will get a movement that's a yes or not. Every time I've done that, I always have gotten a yes.
Yeah.
So my advice is, if that's who you want the source of your answers to come from, intentionally invite them. Go through your pendulum session, go through all your questions, and then when you're wrapping up, be sure to think your optimal divine team for helping guide you, and then thank them and let them go.
Yeah, that's great, and I kind of that was kind of an advanced question. I should wait a little bit, but my curiosity jumped forward there. I should let our listeners know that a pendulum is usually a device that's hanging on a chain or a piece of rope or anything twying. It's got a weighted tip, and your pendulums that you suggest and that you feature in your book, or crystals, but they can be anything, I guess right, any kind of metal. Right. And then you you have
the length of it. You're holding on to it, and you're talking about this movement as you're holding on to it, and you're asking a question. Are you starting by intending to have what's best for you information wise? Do you ask? Is that how you start or no, dude, not mentioned.
Yeah, it's all about asking the questions properly. That the art is in the question.
Yeah, talk about that.
Yeah, so what do you what you want to really truly assess is what is in your highest good and what is in the highest good of all? So what I always recommend in terms of phrasing the question, you can ask a question in a way like this, is it optimal for me? Two drive to California and visit Cliff in person? So you know, I mean you want it. You always want to really truly start with is it optimal? Right?
Is it optimal for me? Is it optimal for my highest good and the highest good of all to do this, this or that? So that is very very important to do. We don't recommend that you ask should I do this or should I do that, because it could be very subjective. We also recommend that when you ask the question, you keep the question in the present moment. A lot of people are like, well, my pendulum doesn't give me the right answers, Like what kind of questions are you asking?
I keep asking about the future. Well, the future is fluid, right, So the future is fluid, The future could change. So you are asking what is in your highest good at this very moment?
And now that's a good one to say. What's what's the present?
Present moment? Focus on the present moment, and also focus the questions on yourself not other people. For example, instead of asking does Johnny want to have dinner with me tomorrow night? Ask is it optimal for me to have dinner with Johnny? Because I'm not in Johnny's subcontinent, nor should i be, and it doesn't really matter what Johnny wants.
I want to focus on what is in my highest good and what is in you know, my best interest, because I am living my life from my heart center and I want to focus on the most optimal outcomes for me. So that's the only way that I can do good in the world is be true to myself.
So let's talk about the mechanism again, just to clarify for those who are not familiar with this technique. You are the I'm trying to think of it. You're you're kind of the computer, and the pendulum is the output data output, And so is there something below the pendulum that you create that says yes, no, maybe, whatever, or is it you're asking the question out loud and the energy is driven through you to the pendulum, which you're just holding straight right.
I'm holding the pendulum straights, and I just want to make sure that you can see a cliff. I know the audience can't really see it, but I if I ask, show me my yes, my personal yes is a clock by circle circle, Show me my no. My personal no is a back and forth.
It was fast.
It was fast, Cliff yours could be completely different. Because everybody's an individual. We do not use pendulum boards because we want people to program their pendulum to the movements that are natural to them and their energetic bodies. And I see all kinds of movements. I see movements that are opposite of mine. I see moments sometimes a standstill, like when a pendulum just doesn't move and can just stay in place and just kind of jiggle. That could be your yes or that could be your no. So
I don't necessarily use a yes no chart. I just use my body because I know what my yes is. I know what my no is, and then I when I ask a question. For example, take a look at this am I currently being interviewed by Cliff. This is my yes? So my it's my clockwise circle circle motion is Cliff wearing a red shirt. See how to just change directions really fast, really fast. And the more you use a pendulum, the more proficient. You become at this
and your answers will come much much quicker to you. Sometimes, you know, people have to, like, you know, stop the pendulum between between their questions, which is okay too, but you also want to make sure you give it enough time between your questions. If it needs to recalibrate, if it needs to change direction, just be patient like anything.
It is a practice. And to answer your other question about, you know, how does that answer show up and you say the question out loud, Cliff, you don't have to say the question out loud because you are already energetically connected to the pendulum. You're like the receiver, you are the antenna, right. You can just think the question. You can think the question and the movement will show up for you. So it is not a speak out loud exercise.
What about more complex inquiries where you're going beyond yes and no? Obviously, if you're focused on the pendulum, you can't write it down. Do you recommend people use a recorder? Because I would see people like you who are very sensitive kind of going into an altered state. Well, you're not really functioning as a you know, quarter, you're kind of like.
I would encourage you to do what works for you, make the practice completely your own personally. What I do is I love to write, write down. My answer is as I go, so I can capture what is happening. So it's just for me, it's just it's a combination of using my pendulum and journaling. So that is a wonderful way to go about it. If you are you really do sort of kind of just get into like the more data brain state, brain wave state where you're just a little bit removed from the outer world, which
is a beautiful place to be. It's so RESTful for your brain, and you're just so so so connected to yourself or to your optimal divine team, and you are just journeying inside yourself and figuring out what are your most optimal outcomes, what are your next steps, what are your breed choices, what is your personal truth? And it's so so so exciting. But it doesn't have to be like super super deep work every single day. It could be simple as simple as and I do this all
the time. I will make my to do list, I will write down my to do list in my notebook, and then I will use my pendulum. I'll hold it over each item, and I'll say is it optimal for me to do this today? Yes?
Or no?
And my to do list goes from ten things to five like that. It's magical because and then I look at I'm like, okay, yeah, you know, none of those you know five items that I just crossed out were really truly relevant. And then I prioritize using my pendylum saying which which items should I do first? Which items should I do second? And once I like start executing my to do list based on my work with my optimal divine team, day floats. It's amazing how much it flows.
I would encourage your listeners to try this and see what happens. It's your productivity will shoot up like crazy.
I want to ask you for those that are listening or saying, this is just woo wo what are you talking about? Come on, Karna, this is you know, what world are you living in? How for a beginner, is there a learning curve where you're getting yes no, yes, no, and there's your negative ego coming through and going we're going to screw with you right now? Girl? Talk about talk about beginning and how you begin at some point to lock in completely.
Yeah. So thank you for asking. I mean, you're talking to a girl who went to NBA school. You know. I'm like, I spent so many years in corporate and like, show me the data. If the data doesn't confirm this decision, I'm not doing it. Yeah, I'm data driven, and you know, I gotta have data. I gotta have the research. I gotta you know, invest in the research because that's what's going to give us the answers. So I'm not anti
data right now. I don't want to say that, but I also want to say that when you use when you use data combined with your intuition, you are that much more powerful. Oh my goodness, are you that much more powerful? Think about people like Steve Jobs, Think about people like Oprah Winfrey. Think about all the inventions that have happened that have never you know, existed before because people were courageous enough to follow their intuitive ability and create, create, create,
and get them out into the world. This is where the magic happens. It's like this fine, like fine intersection between data and intuition. Oh my gosh. I mean, I truly believe every single executive should have a pendulum on their desk because you will be that much more powerful and that much more successful.
So talk really briefly, let's let's talk about that. So, Yeah, if an executive is open to using the intuition and the pendulum, what's opening that he wouldn't have access to normally?
What is open that?
What's he going to get from using the pendulum?
Yeah, I mean I've spent I spent over a decade doing innovation work, right, So whether I'm innovating you know, new foods or new supplements, things like that. It's great to have the data, but sometimes data is expensive, black and white, tens of thousands of dollars, if not more. And sometimes if you want to move fast to capture what is happening in the marketplace, you got to take some risks, right, Yeah, So if you want to really truly maximize the market opportunities, you have to lean in.
But in order for you to lean in, you got to trust yourself. You got to trust yourself that you are willing to take a risk, and you really truly understand where you as an individual stand on that particular issue. That is where the pendulum can commit. You can really truly extract what it is that is your truth and why you feel so strongly about it because your intuitive wisdom is guiding you towards it.
So that's a very good point. So you're saying you're moving beyond the flat data and you want to get into the the inception of the creative flow of the product or thought, whatever it is. The pendulum is to have help you tap that, and the answers you get will give you your answers either this is a good project or a bad idea.
Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying I'm not saying that you use a you know, you use a pendulum to determine, you know, which projects to go with or not. I'm telling you to use a pendulum. Tunno where you stand with yourself on certain matters. It's about knowing and understanding your truth and be able to discern your truth because our conscious mind doesn't allow us to easily access our truth.
Sometimes we're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves and we'll be right back with my guest today, Katrina Mueller, discuss seen her latest book, Pendulums and Intuition.
We'll be right back. My guest today is Karina Mueller. She is the author of pendulums and intuition, practical advice for trust your inner wisdom, and we're understanding just how
well the pendulums can work in our daily life. Let's talk about business just for a second, because if you're working, Let's say you're working with corn flakes and you're a new company that's selling corn flakes, and you need to decide if a theme is going to work for a ten million dollar marketing campaign and you're not sure, do you actually give it up to your highest good and use your pen you live and say this is going to be good or bad? Or should I revise the theme?
I've been throwing that out.
It's it is a great question. What I would encourage any any executive, any business person. You know, it's a hard set well to go after something based on your own got right. So it's a hard sell in any company if you don't have the data to back it up.
So I would just you know, encourage you to be brave and to know why you feel so strongly about a certain issue, and working with a pendulum and asking all the strategic questions of yourself can help you flush out why you feel a certain way and why you want to pursue a certain direction. So it's just a matter of really truly understanding your own inner wisdom and
why you feel so guided towards a certain direction. You know, you may not be able to sell that in to the board because you don't have the data to back it up. But sometimes we have to take risks, or sometimes we have to take advantage of certain market dynamics that are just you know, coming together right in front of our eyes, and we don't want to miss the boat on being you know, part of part of the trend.
So we have to take risks as business people. But when you understand yourself and when you understand your own driving forces, why that risk is really truly calling you, you will be able to stand firm in your own beliefs and be able to strategize and have the right pitch in front of the decision makers that are around you.
That's pretty heavy, but.
It's also brave. It's brave, Like I mean, when you are your truth and you're acting from the truth, that's when you become a sovereign being, when you know that you are truly living from your heart center.
Well, that's why I want to just talk about, Yeah, you're divine being, but you're being divinely guided your higher wisdom. This is what makes this work so fascinating and so powerful, is that when you get to a point of using the pendulum and your intuition, Yeah, it's a because you're using it to get answers that you're not able to get on your own, is what I'm thinking, right.
Or you're using it to get confirmation on what you think you believe. So let me just back up a little bit. So when you first start using a pendulum, I always advise don't jump into the big heavy stuff. Okay, yeah, it starts slow. For example, start with is it optimal for me to have oatmeal this morning? Or is it optimal for me to have scrambled eggs this morning? And just figure out what your yes is and go make yourself that bar. Let's go and make yourself those scrambled eggs,
and then notice, like how did I feel like? Did I feel full? Did I feel energetic? Did it like I did I show up like this morning? Meetings? Like just learn and observe that the decision that you acted upon with the help of your pendulum really truly, you know, served you was in your highest good right. So you start with those small steps and small decisions and observe,
take notes, see what happens. And then when you take a look back, you start realizing that the guidance that you've tapped into is really truly the guidance that's in your highest good. And when you tap into the guidance that's in your highest good and really prove to yourself that this is making a big difference in my life, I am following my inner guidance. I feel so good about all these different aspects of myself. You start really
truly developing the confidence in the practice, right. But then you're ready to go deeper. You're ready to go to deeper questions. You're ready to take bigger risks, You're ready to test your intuitive wisdom in lots of different ways. So start small, and when you're ready, just keep taking steps and steps towards bigger risks. I would not recommend that you know, your first day of working with a pendulum, you ask if you should quit your nine to five job and open it right, or yeah, should I buy
the multi million dollar house on the beach. Don't quite go there. Just prove to yourself that you can establish your connection to your intuitive wisdom, to your heart center, and that the guidance that you have become accustomed to receiving is really truly serving your highest And that's when you'll become so so so brave that those big daunting
life decisions won't seem so daunting. You'll feel so capable of making them because you will have such strong belief in your inner guidance that you will be an unstoppable force wonderful.
As a teacher, do you see people perhaps on a shaky road, maybe getting the wrong answers, or perhaps not tapping in quite fully. Yeah, give us some examples of that.
Yeah, I mean that's I think if you really truly like want to expect and see a certain answer, you can sway the pendulum to go that way.
Yeah.
So it's all about being detached.
Oh, very good.
And yeah, if you can figure out how to stay detached from the answer is going to serve your highest good. So, for example, if there is something that you want to show up as a yes, but you don't want to sway the answer because you're really truly invested in the truth, right, ask the question, close your eyes, Close your eyes, and then you know, open your eyes when you feel you're getting a movement, and then just be surprised to what
it is. Right, So practice being detached from the outcomes, because when you're detached, that's when you will realize that the outcomes that are in your highest good become available to you. And ask the question in lots of different ways, slice and dice the question, rephrase it, come back and
ask the question two three days later. You know if those are if there are some big decisions that you're making, it is important to keep asking and asking until you really truly know that your intuitive wisdom is screaming something at you that you just you can't not act upon.
Yeah, you made a good point, though. At some point you get into the flow, and that's critical because when you know and you probably and I haven't read all your entire book, but you probably recommend working to the point where you begin to feel that you're in the vibe, in the flow, and that is when you're guidance or your wisdom or whatever you want to call it is is very would you say, accurate, And so then you can begin asking those more complex questions.
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's it's all about trusting yourself and as a life coach, I was trained to help people make way to their truth. I'm not going to as a co you know, tell you what is for your highest good club, But what I will do is go through a series of exercises and questions to help you lead yourself to your highest truths. Right, so when you come up with the answers, and come up with those answers that are for your highest good, you are that
much more invested in acting on those answers. And working with a pendulum is just a faster way to get to that truth. We could sit and do a visualization exercise and it could take twenty to forty minutes, or you could work with a pendulum and ask a few questions and get the same outcome. And the more you work with a pendulum, like I said earlier, the more you trust the guidance that shows up, the more you're
willing to act on it. And then you start really truly being in that state of flow, your flowing with the universe. You are flowing. You're not doubting, you're not questioning, you're not having you know, any cognitive dissonance that I make the right decision or not. But you're flowing with life. And I'm not saying it's going to be easy, because we all come here to learn our lesson But I'm saying you'll stop doing a lot of the trial and air.
You won't trip over yourself so much.
You know, I mean, who has time for trial and error. Let's learn our lessons and get them over with, right.
True.
You know, it's like I don't want to keep learning this stuff over and over and over ten different ways. I just want to learn it and move on to the next one.
Would you say that the founders are the ones who began using this and writing about them if there's anything written in the ancient past, discover that this is an extension of who.
We are completely. This is a journey to yourself. A pendulum is just an object you can use other ways to tap into yourself. Muscle testing would be another tool. It's it's a you know, similar in nature to a pendulum, So it is it's a tool. It's just a tool. The magic is within you, Cliff, The magic is within all of us. This is all about a journey to ourselves in learning how to trust ourselves and live in a state of our truth. Because then when we do
that we just don't look back. We just go forward bravely and take those risks and enjoy those precious moments, and we don't question whether we made the right decisions or not. We just live live in the moment and enjoy all the universal gifts that are available to us.
Does it take over from our own thinking apparatus? Does it be come a part of us? And I can ask you this because you've probably been doing it for twenty years, but does using the pendulum become It's like wake up in the morning, you know, I'm wondering what I should do today.
You know I've been I haven't been using a pencylum but long. I've been using a pendulum for like less than three years.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like, yeah, because I met my business partner Lona again, that's right during the pandemic and yeah, and that's when, you know, it was after the pandemic is when we started this Pendulum business because we just really believe that like the universe guided us there, the universe gave us this gift and it's like, oh my gosh, so many people need this, so many so
many people need this. And then when you listen to the universal guidance that's available to you because it's always available. And when you listen, and when you pay attention, and when you tap in and when you ask the right questions, then the doors start opening up. So one of the doors that opened up for us without us even really truly pursuing it, was this book because that just you know,
landed in our that for us. The universe needed another book on pendulums and chose us to write it, and we said, okay, we are up for the job.
Wonderful.
Yeah, I mean we connected with our publisher Llewellyn and they, you know, they're like, can you submit a proposal? We know what you do with pendulums. We think that there's a market for this, and we're like, okay, we'll submit a proposal. We love this, so we just follow the guidance that's already laid out for us. We tap in to ask if it's in our highest good and then if the answer is yes, then we act on it and it's available to everyone.
Well, you got a big smile on your face. It's not like Cliff, I've been doing it for three years and I just don't know what I'm.
Going Yeah, I shifted from you know, doing a lot of corporate work to really truly helping people connect to themselves. And it's so crazy life giving thousands of people. Thousands of people now have heart centric pendulums, and we we love this journey because it gives us so much joy just helping people like realize how powerful they are and the magic can be like at their fingertips when they hold that pendulum and it actually moves with their energy
and they're like, what the heck is going on? Like, yeah, it's you, the magic is you. Yeah, So it's just it's a self empowerment tool.
Now on your website, you sell pendulums. Are these all crafted by you and your Lana? You guys make them?
Yeah, Alana and I make all of all of the pendulums, and we also coach. We coach people on how to use pendulums. We're also you know, life coaches. We could take people on an extensive journey to themselves. We do quite a bit of speaking. We travel all over the country and we just love to talk about pendulums and educate people on how to use use one to live your best life.
Amazing. Yeah, can you talk about some case studies of people in various situations and perhaps the outcome that they acknowledged using the pendulum.
I mean that there's there.
I mean, like somebody who had a relationship question that you were maybe coaching, and they use the pendulum and this is the outcome. I'd just be curious. I think the listeners might like to hear some examples of people that use the pendulum and got results.
Yeah, there are so there's so many stories that I mean, I will know.
I will use the names to protect the I will mention just.
A couple of couple of simple ones. So, so a client is running a company and she is hiring someone for a high level position, hiring hiring, yes, hiring an important executive for a pivotal role in her company. And it's like, Okay, well this person leots fit on paper, they have a proven track record. I'm just I'm just not sure if they're a fit. But they really do have all the credentials, this, this, and that. Well, what does your intuitive wisdom tell you?
Would be the question that I would ask, And oh, I don't know, I don't know. Well let's try what let's try this with a pendulum. Is this the optimal hire two drive top and bottom line growth for my organization at this moment in time. Get the answer, well, nope, no, it's not. Yeah, I mean it's it's because you the person may look good on paper, but the person is not quite a fit. But our conscious mind can't quite put like like wrap it around, wrap a little box
around it, and say why. But our intuitive wisdom knows better. Our intuitive wisdom deep down we can't quite articulate it. But deep down we know that they're not going to be a fit. And deep down we know that they're not going to be worth you know, the handholding and the mentoring, and you know the results are just not going to show up. But our conscious mind can't quite
process it. It's what we know, like way way, way deep down inside that is whispering to us, don't hire this person and they're going to be more trouble than they're worth.
So so this client or person who you're providing this case study, and she probably asked more than one question completely because this is a big deal, especially if it's a it's an executive role, that's a big position.
Wow, that's just just one example of how you can combine you know, the data with your intuitive wisdom to really truly determine what are the best outcomes for a particular scenario. You know, this case, running your company and investing you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in the new hire that may or may not really truly deliver what you're expecting them to deliver. So it's combining your knowledge and experience and your intuition into making the best decisions.
How about more intimate relationships, You have any examples of that, because that's where a lot of people can really slip up with somebody who appears to be a real good person and all of a sudden they have mental problems or or something that makes your life miserable and you invested. I mean, that's a big one.
Oh, completely, yeah, I mean that's it's another great example of how you can use a pendulum. Relationships are such important integral parts of our lives. I mean, it's all we are wired to connect without our human beings and have a sense of community around us, you know, be in an intimate relationship. It's what makes the world go around, right, So it's so important to really truly know way you stand in a certain relationship, especially if it's your romantic relationship,
whether it's your spouse, romantic partner. So it is all about truly asking the right questions and whether you know this person is someone that you are able to grow with or is this person presenting a codependent relationship opportunity. Is this someone who is going to try to keep us from showing up as our best selves, or is this someone who's going to encourage our personal growth and encourage our learning our evolution, because you know, life is short.
We want to be partnered up with those people that will allow us to grow and thrive and be able to go and pursue the things that make our hearts sing. And either they're pursuing them with us or not, and then they're just encouraging us to do them on our own.
Do you have any examples of anyone who was in a relationship and was really curious about the next steps because they were maybe getting odd signals or maybe they weren't sure and mm hmm, that's a little bit about that.
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, there was a client who you know, was post divorce and in a relationship post divorce that you know, really served so much good because it was you know, a time for healing and a time to really you know, just know that relationships post divorce are possible. And this person, you know, for her, this person checked
so many boxes. You know, this person was compassionate and had tremendous values and just had so many similar interests and they had a really, really, really good time together. So there's so many good things that were happening with this particular person. But what was also happening is that this person was ready to move forward at a much faster rate and much faster pace than she was. So they were like, Okay, it's time, you know, to consider marriage.
I'm really ready blah blah blah like and she was like no. So one of the things that she had to do is dig in to herself, deep within herself and to her own inner wisdom and try to understand whether this person was going to be her long term commitment for possibly her next husband, because there were so many things that were going so well, but they were not on the same page and what was going to win out and what was what won out is parting ways because she realized that how he wanted to move
forward was not at all aligned with how she wanted to.
I mean, I'm hearing you. You're saying that he wanted to get married sooner than she did. Coming off of divorce, you probably do won't even think about getting married. But were there other indicators that this guy was just moving too quickly on sounds like he's moving too quickly on a number of levels.
Is that what it was, Yeah, But it's it's just it's such intricate work.
Yeah.
So it's just it's stuff that's not necessarily available to us at the surface, because you're like, well, I really enjoy being with them, I really love this person there.
They bring me so much joy. So illogically, you could completely talk yourself into being with this person because there's so many pros, But when you dig in on a much deeper level in tapping to your deep, deep truth, is that's when you realize that you're just not aligned, you're just not ready, and no matter how much you can try to talk yourself into it, it's just not
going to work. You know. It's just like understanding that break truth and knowing that you can voice it and let the other person know and be willing to risk the relationship ending is like that's the hard, hard work. But ultimately, you know it's happening for your highest good because you can't be on two different pages about something as important as marriage. You know it, you can. It's a great guy. It just it really should be with him. He's such a great guy. He's so nice and he's
so kind. But it's just it's like he wants this and you want that, and you have to face that truth as hard as it is.
What I mean, I don't know if you remember the questioning, but that is curious because that's not a one time pendulum Q and A. That's multiple q and as, after meetings, after beacons and intimacy and so forth and so on. So it could get your work. It sounds like it is immense work, and it could be months. It takes a months months.
Because you know, I mean sometimes those truths, you know, as much as we see them show up, we don't always want to believe them, or we may not always want to face them, or we may not always want to, you know, be brave enough to act on them right away.
I'm just thinking, because of the emotions and all the hormones involved with love relations, if someone's in love with a partner, is that going to affect the pendulum's outcome, you know.
And yes, absolutely absolutely, like you know, like you know, like I said, you could force if you really want to see a certain answer, you could force it because you know, there's like an undercurrent of fear that's running through us. You know, we may not be at this point ready to walk away from the relationship, so we're fearing how is it that we're going to show up and being alone in the world and all of that. So yeah, so that is why we practice attachment. We
practice attachment. We have to let go. We have to really truly clear our hearts and clear our minds and ask, you know, for the most optimal outcomes to show up for us. And when they do, we have to process them, like we have to sit with them, because when we are sitting with an outcome that we weren't expecting, that's harder, that's more raw, that's more you know, painful. It puts us in a tougher position. It's because there's some emotions that are coming up for us that need to be healed.
Mhm.
Right, yeah, So it's all about like bravely facing what it is that's coming up to be healed and sitting in that situation, and it could be you know, letting go of a relationship that you were in for a long time but it's no longer serving you, and allowing all of that grief and sadness and loneliness to come up and sit with it so you can actually ultimately heal it.
Boy, that's it's amazing stuff. I'm curious though, when you're doing your pendulum work, is there a flow of language that you're picking up that's also helping identify the issue in your mind?
A flow of language, A flow of language. Yeah, I'm trying to understand that question.
I think like someone who's been using the pendulum for a period of time, Yeah, I would think there's like levels of information, there's a pendulum and then you begin receiving it in language or yeah, I don't know.
I mean, yes, it's like anything. It's a practice, right, it's a practice, and it's you can think of it as a conversation with your higher self, that all knowing part of you that wants only the best outcomes for you, that is there to guide you and has unconditional love for you, but is also invested in you learn your earthly lessons, all the things that you came here to learn and signed up for and you fulfilling all your
soul contracts. So imagine it as that conversation. It's with someone who loves you unconditionally but will tell you the truth.
That's amazing. The books called Pendulums and Intuition Practical Advice for Trusting your Inner Wisdom. My guest today has been Katrina Mueller. Give us your website. How can people get a hold of you? And I guess you said you do personal consulting as well as teaching, so talk about that as well.
Yeah, yeah, so both Lana and I are certified life coaches. We both have We are co founders of heart Centric. Heart Centric is a product business as well as a service business. So our products are pendulums and other spiritual jewelry, and our services we do one on one coaching, we do team coaching, we do group events, we do public speaking, we do private parties. So for anyone who's curious about Pendulums,
we can have a service that addresses your needs. And yeah, and like you said, we also have a book, Pendulums and Intuition, Practical Advice for Trust for Trusting your Inner Wisdom. Our website is HC Divinecreations dot Com. And yeah, and Lona and I we both both also have our own consulting businesses versus Hearts Work and mine is client centric
consulting and coaching. And so we are ready to serve you're listening and help anyone who is curious to tap into their own inner wisdom, their own truth, and if they're ready to live their best lives, we are ready to take them on that journey.
Fantastic. I will mention Also, the book just came out in June, so it is brand new, and I think it's available on Amazon.
Isn't it on Amazon?
Yeah, it's on Amazon, so you can get it there.
So yeah, it's very it's very practical for you know, a corporate executive could pick it up if you've never used a pendulum and learn all about it. But anyone, anyone who is curious about pendulums, that will teach you how to starve from the beginning.
All right, So this has been fun, very informative. But as we leave Arna, who is this book for.
This book is for all of the people who are ready to take that next step and connect with their own intuitive wisdom, connect with their heart center. To learn their truth and to be brave enough to live their truth.
I like that for a lot of people that you're right, they're like caught up in some kind of quagmire, not sure what their truth is, and this is gonna be a great tool for kind of getting out of it. Right. Yeah, fantastic. I like the fact that you have a pendulums you can buy on your website.
So yeah, check it out. Maybe there's one that's calling you.
I am gonna check it out because I'm gonna try doing it. So Hey, thanks for your time. This has been real fun and much success on this book.
Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's been a blast, super fun connecting with you and sending blocks of love to all of your listeners.
No, obviously, these are intuition. These are devination tools where intuition is tapped. And you know, when we were out there more we didn't have the interference of Wi Fi, the Internet and everything else in our face. Intuition was more accepted, and it was the sixth sense was more brought into the decision making. So it's going to take time for you to use the pendulum to begin to trust it on the big questions. And you want to
get the big answers. But I've found it good for problematic situations where you're dealing with decision making and you need to have a little more data, and so working with your intuition helps you download that data. I really suggest you get the book too. Just came out. It's on Amazon, and yeah, it's a good one. Pendulums and intuition practical advice for trusting your inner wisdom. We're gonna
have some more people like that. I think I may have somebody to come in and speak about Ouiji boards. I'm not a big one for Ouigi boards. There's a lot of scare tactics, a lot of scare advice. You bring in other entities and they can take over and create questions for you. I'm not so sure that's true, but we'll see. We'll see. Pendulums are a great place
to start. You can go to Amazon or Etsy Etsy and find some really really cool crystal pendulums or real basic metal pendulums that are a copper that started about fifteen dollars and go all the way up to several hundred if you want to really fancy one, if you think you're really going to be doing some serious work where you need to connect with your higher wisdom, your intuition. Spend a little more money and splurge and spend you know, one hundred bucks or more on a nice pendulum. You'll
be surprised at how beautiful some of them are. It's a tool. It's another tool. Hey, if you're enjoying Earth Ancient's Destiny and the special editions, please consider becoming a subscriber. For as little as five dollars a month, you can support the work we do here on this podcasts and we have a lot of guests for you. When you become a subscriber, we have a lot of ebooks that you can download. These are gifts from our different authors
for you. There's unpublished interviews, there are some galleries, and occasionally I'll jump on and we'll do a you know, kind of a conversation program where we can chat about some of the topics. To become a subscriber, go to patreon dot com, forward slash Earth Ancients and subscribe. Again, this really helps out. Subscribe for five, ten, fifteen, even twenty dollars a month makes a huge, huge difference. Again, to subscribe, go to Patreon. That's pa t r e
o N dot com, Forward Slash Earth Ancients. All right, that's it for this program, or I think my guest today Karina Mueller and her new book Pendulums and Intuition. As always a team of Gail tour, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock, all right, take care of be well, and we will talk to you next time.