Welcome to destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, how how are you? Come on in and have a seat. Today we're talking about a divination technique known as toro. And when I say divination, this is where you're working with the spirit, your guidance, your soul, and getting the answers to create a solution to know what's going on outside of your physical body. And Toro has been known about for a number of hundreds of hundreds of years, but we don't know how much further it goes back.
When we say divination, we're asking higher wisdom, We're asking the elements, We're asking the other realities, the other dimensions to work with us. Tourou is like the ruins, the stone rooms that you throw and you get information from. It also relates to astrology, where you have planetary systems affecting you your biology. Current science doesn't really consider astrology as science, but we know
that the Egyptians were very much involved with astrology. I always mentioned that the Hathor Temple at Dendera, Egypt, the entire observation deck, the ceiling of that building is one huge astrological chart. Actually is a gigantic carving that has all the figures, has the planets, has all the details, so that when they were looking into the heavens, they would could relate to it on
a number of different scales. So our ancestors were very much involved with subtle energy, and today we're talking about the energy the information gained from using Tourou cards. One of the things that's challenging about Toro is that there are so many different decks and each deck has over seventy cards that you mix and you match and you hold on to you provided your intention for the cards. This is what I want to see. I want more information on. This is
this relationship going to work out? Tell me about a new job, Tell me about the job I have now, Tell me about my finances. I don't feel well, what's going on? This is a way to step outside your body, step outside your physicality and get answers. And I don't use it enough. I used to use to roll a lot. I would pick a card every I think it was every week and ask for what you know, what can I look forward to? Sometimes it was right on, sometimes
it was right on. And as we're going to hear today, the questions you pose when you're working with divination, divine spirit, divine information. Is that your question has to be phrased and composed in such a way that you get the maximum out of it. Questions like tell me yes, tell me now if this is going to happen, that it cannot be that type of a question. It has to be more are thought out. Some people go into quiet time meditation and come up with a question. The more detail you
have in the question, the more information you're going to get back. And for those of you who don't believe in divination, all I can say is your ancestors used it of effectiveness, with great deal of clarity. We didn't have computers, we didn't have database storage systems with information, and in those times you were using the collective scene and unseen sources your higher wisdom, and it's more earth based energetics. Now, I talk a lot about energetics all
the time. That can be reiki, which is healing. It can be yoga, it can be taichi, it can be body movements. Those are all energetic movements because you're moving energy when you're doing you're moving into those different positions to stretch the body. One of the big ones that's really important is meditation. And when you meditate, you're quieting the mind and opening it to receive healing. You're opening it to receive data, and you are connecting with
your higher self. So those are all very very important techniques to gain quiet, to gain information, and to write questions down for to row reading. I have had to rough readings in the past, but I tend to go
for more in depth analysis. And that's where you go to a noted astrologer and you give them the date, the time, the place you were born, and other details about yourself that allows them to create computations on what planets are influencing you, what those planets typically do positive negative, and what is a tendency of those energies on your physical body. And again, wellness relationship relationships are huge work pleasure trends. You know, there's some people that go
to an astrologer don't want to know what the financial trends are. It's useful for a lot of stuff. And you know, there's been some United States presidents, I think most notably Ron and Nancy Reagan had an astrologer that would visit the White House on a regular basis. I shouldn't be laughing. This is fun. It's great fun. We need more of that in our struggling culture here in the United States where we have one side against the other right
now politically divided as ideally philosophically divided as well. We need more humor. We really need more humor that opens things up, enlightens up the environment, and gives us pause to consider what the hell we're doing. So today's program deals with sol energy and the book we are talking about is called Soul Journey through the Ureau Key to a Complete Spiritual Practice, integrating Numerology, astrology,
cabal and the Contemplative Life. And my guest is John Sandbach. Now listen to what he has to say regarding energy to work with divination and how it can open things up and make life a lot more pleasurable. Up until recently we've had a number of authors on the program who are talking about divination.
This is working with energetics, getting a sense of where your karma is, are you processing, are you working with your own surrounding helpers, scene and unseen, And that is numerology and astrology, and even some people have been looking at channeled material. These are people that go into a state of full trance or partial trance and are getting information today. We're talking about a very
interesting and actually provocative divinations known as terreu. And my guest today has written a book called Soul Journey through the Terurou key to a complete spiritual practice integrating listen to this. This is what makes this book kind of cool, integrating numerology, astrology, cabal and the contemplative life. And this is a lot to tackle, but my guest today has made it very easy to read and understand. My guest is John Sandbach. He has written quite a few books
before this one. He wrote The Circular Temple and Astrology, Alchemy and the Tourou And he is a highly respected astrologer and touro researcher and has been working professionally in these fields for over fifty five years. And he's coming to us today from Kansas City, Missouri. John, Welcome to Destiny. Great they have you on the program. I'm so very happy to be here. What's the weather like in Kansas City today? It's been amazingly warm, has it.
It's been doing really well. It's kind of eerie for December. It should be cold with the wind blowing and snowfalling. I was just gonna say, don't you guys usually have snow by about this time? Oh yeah, we haven't had any and there's still leaves on trees. Yeah, so that's kind of strange. Huh wow. Talk about tourou why is it an important tool for integrating the scene and in the end the scene, talk a little bit about your interest in it. Well. So, I believe that underlying
all of life are patterns and energies at work that are basically hidden. It's kind of like in your body. You know, all these subtle chemical processes are going on in your brain and your liver, your other internal organs, and it's all unseen. But if we can tap into it and get in tune with it, we can support and enhance what's trying to happen. And Marishi Mahashoki says that the most important says, the strongest force in the universe
is the force of evolution. That is, we're all headed toward enlightenment, and the Buddhists tell us we're all going to make it. We know where we're going, and so the question is a how we're going to get there and be how long it's going to take, but we're going to get there. And so the tarot helps to see patterns in life, and it helps with getting in contact with angelic forces and spiritual forces so that we can align with those which then will enhance our own evolution. That's how I see the
tarot. It's got so much packing, the each card and each description, and there's different books out there, But in its essence, John, why who developed it? If you can even answer that? And because you you you talk about some very ancient individuals that are part of part of it, and I'm just curious, give us your best guess as to how they came about as a divination tool. Okay, So there's one side of that is
the researcher's side. Who would a researcher looking at objective information like historical facts, And then the other side would be an intuitive, visionary approach to the whole thing. When it comes to the actual facts, there's so little there, you know. These cards appeared in Italy in the fourteenth century, and the first decks we have of them are just partial, you know, and then later the regular playing cards were added to what's called the major arcana.
We don't really know exactly where they came from. I have beliefs about that. I believe that they're associated with Kabbala, that they came from the Kabbalistic tradition. You know, there's twenty two major Arcana cards, and the Zohar, which is the most important text on Kabbalah, is twenty two volumes, and each one of those volumes corresponds to one of the major Arcanic cards.
So in a sense, the Tarot is and abridged Zohar. It contains the whole of the knowledge of the Zohar in that cards, and it's very It's primary base, I believe is numerology. Numerology is a very very important part of the Tarot. I personally have had visions of how it came from Fez in North Africa, the city of Fez. There were a group of Kabbalists who lived there who developed the whole thing and then disseminated it out from there.
So you made a very good point. There's been cards. The actual cards have been found in different parts of Europe, and then the defining of the cards are what they mean, have been found in old books in different parts of the world. That was your suggestion, Okay, Yeah, and the probably the oldest book I go back to when I look at the cards is the separate Yetserah, which is a kabalistic book, and I go back
to that for the numerology. It has the Hebrew letters associated with the first twenty two numbers, numbers one through twenty two, and the astrological signs and planets. So that becomes a groundwork for then building all these other ideas connected with the tarot. Okay so and and by the way, for you those of you listening John's book Souls or Sole Journey through the Tarurou is an enhanced description of each card. It's not the actual cards itself. And that leads
to my next question. John, and you talk a little bit about this in the introduction. There's so many versions of the card. There's people that are in fact, you reproduce some cards from a client or a person who's an artist that you worked with that had, you know, painted these wonderful figures and then they are a card. But how does the uninitiated select a
deck to work with, because that's the key is choosing a deck. Well, if you're going to work with the tarot, one of the first things I'd say is that some of the decks out there don't have seventy eight cards. A tarot deck has seventy eight cards. So if you want to work with the tarot, you want a seventy eight card deck. And then beyond that, it's about choosing whatever you feel drawn to, whatever whatever calls to
you. A very very good tarot deck to use that goes very well with my system of working is the Church of Light deck developed by C. C. Zin and it's a black and white deck. The most color deck, no color, no. The most popular tarot deck is the Arthur Edward Waite deck, and I think that's a very good deck. They have one reversal in there where they've reversed our canon eight and eleven, but other than that, it's a good deck. So that's one of my criticisms of it.
I don't like that reversal. I put them back where they were in the older decks, just the eight and the eleven switched. And then the other thing I don't like about the Weight deck is it kind of in the minor arcanum. It has some negativity going on, some negative stuff. And I went back we recently and read about this, and you know, Pamela Coleman Smith was the designer of that deck, working under Arthur Edward Waite, and she asked him, she said, with the minor arcana, what are you
going to do with these? And he said, oh, I don't care, just do whatever pictures you want. In other words, he wasn't so interested in the minor arcana. So she did. She did what she wanted, and for instance, the Tent of Swords is a picture of this black sky with this man lying face down with ten swords stuck in him, and it's pretty more bid. There is no one tarot card that is good or bad. These are energies, and so you can use any of the energies
in a good way or you can use them in a negative way. And so putting off that negativity on that card is disturbing to me. I don't like it. I can see why, because they're all stuck in the guy and it's like, well, he's not bleeding, but yeah, what do you do when you're doing a reading for somebody, you turn that card over?
I mean, I've had that happen before. And even when I say to the person, oh, you know, this card does have a positive side, and the positive side is thus and so, and I explained it to them, they'll look at the card and be like worried, you know, magnify apprehension and fear and like that. So that's why I don't like to wait deck. So really I have to say that the one deck I really approve of is the Church of Light deck. Now, the deck that
I'm currently using and I just started using, is this one. And it's called the Abstract Futures Tearot, and all the cards are abstract paintings and they're based on the paintings of the female artist Hilma af Klint, who is a Swedish painter and a mystic and her paintings are extremely metaphysical, very mystical. And on the front of the box it says by Hilma's ghost at the bottom.
And so these two women what they did was they painted these paintings, these seventy eight paintings, and they channeled the energy of the cards from Hilma off Clint, who is deceased. And I just they're pretty, they're very show one. Let's take a look at one. Okay, this is the Tower. Oh interesting, Okay, they're very simple, look, very abstract. Very simple and they have a very calm vibration. This is the world. Yeah, I'll show you one more. This is a the four Cups
and this is called Abstract Future, the Abstract Futures deck. The only problem with this deck does it costs one hundred dollars? Oh my god. It must be limited reproductions, the limited edition and it's it's an art piece. Yeah, but I love the deck, So I got it. Talk a little bit John about the the major and the minor arcanas, because that's the key. What does that mean when someone's pulling these cards, What does that
mean when they have a major or minor arcana. Well, the major arcana shows universal principles, like in a pure form, whereas I would say that the minor arcana shows universal principles principles in an applied form, how they apply to outer reality and how they apply in specific contexts and situations. So the
major arcana is more the pure form of the energy. Now, so in the tarot, in the minor arcana, there are four suits and they go with the elements fire, air, earth, and water, which is fire, creativity, earth, physicality, air, mind, thought, connection, and water emotion. But now in traditional metaphysics, we have a fifth element called the quintessence, and the fifth element is the one that harmonizes all the other four, brings them all four into coherence and connection. And the fifth
element is the major ar canon. So the major ar can of those twenty two cards are the great harmonizing elements for our world. You can think of it that way. Okay, So when someone's working on their own and they're wanting to do a reading, do they pull I mean we just started mentioning you mis mentioned that you pull one card a day for yourself. Yes, But somebody who's new, can they pull more than one card? Or can
they do a past president future? Yes? Well, talk a little bit about how they can work with it and how what you describe for the newbie, for the for the uninitiated user. Well, probably the most common sort of reading that I do, or that I do the most frequently, is a three card reading. And it's just like what you said. The first card is the past, and it's also the groundwork of the situation, the background of the situation. The middle card or second card would be the present.
In other words, it's what's going on, what's at work here, And then the third card is where is it going? What is the pull forward into the future. And then since each card has a number, you can add the numbers on the cards and that will give you an overall feeling for what's going on. Like let's say your cards add up to twenty six. Well, then you add the digits of twenty six two plus six is eight, and that tells you that the overall feeling, the overall energy of
that three card reading isn't eight and eight goes with Capricorn. Eight goes with practicality, it goes with being careful. So fascinating. Any questions about that, Yeah, I want to I'm looking at this from I mean, I've used to Rocos. I want those who are listening to get a sense of why these cards are important, what they've been embellished with, and when you actually begin working with them, it's not only your energetic feel that is imbuing
the information. You're also pulling from source, right, Yeah, exactly, and talk about that, because this is what makes Toroso powerful, is the fact that there are others in your energy field or sphere that may be influencing the outcome. Talk about that. I'd say that again, place last part there could be energies or influences that could be influencing your outcome or the outcome
of the question, yes, that is true, you know. So it's in a way it's a little harder for me to do readings for myself and for other people because one of the things that influences the outcome is your desire, yeah, you know. Or for instance, I want to tell someone. I want to give someone good good news or make them feel good. So let's say that they say, oh, I'm going to this new job and I want to know how it'll be, and maybe I turned the cards
and what I see is this is a dead end. It's not probably the job you're meant to be in or something like that. You know, that can be that could be hard to deliver that information to the end of yeah, how do you how do you soften the blow on that? As well? I tell them, I say, I'll say things like be open to the changes afoot, be open to alternative possibilities, or maybe I'll say something like maybe you won't be at this job that long, you know, or
you know. One of the most powerful ways of approaching the tarot is to ask the question, what am I to learn from this. Oh that's good. Yeah, Because let's say you have a negative situation in your life. If you learn what you need to learn from that situation, it tends strongly to make the situation go away, because then if you learn what you need to learn, you don't need that situation anymore. So focusing on what you need to learn can be a really great way to approach the tarot. What
came through you as you were writing this? Because I see you've written each card and you have a description. What will you I mean, you talk about channeling, but that's a lot of channeling to write a whole book. But I mean, yes, you're a creative person, and so it does you know, you flow with the energy probably on a regular basis. But what were you channeling when you were writing the book? Do you have a sense because you do mention Hermes here his energy or that God's energy may have
permeated you talk a bit about it, would you? Well, my experience of channeling is as I'm writing, I will get this feeling of like, yes, oh, yes, this is it, this is that's what you need to say, And then I'll start saying something else and I'll get a kind of like it's hitting a dull note or something, or there's a weakness there, there's a lack of energy, and that's I feel like what that is is the spirit saying to me, No, you know that's not so
important, or don't you don't need to go there, or you can leave that out or whatever like that. And of course, as I'm telling you this, I'm taking a certain amount of time to tell you. When it happens to me, it's very fast. I mean it's quick download, yes, yes, like go here, this is what you need to say, This is what you need to put across. This is the way you need to say it. Yeah, like that. And that happens in readings too
all the time, where I'll start saying things to people. And you know, one of the things that CC Zane said, bless his heart because it's so important. He said, if you're doing a reading and your intuition is telling you something that seems to go against the cards, go with your intuition. Your intuition trumps the cards. Wow, that your intuition is so important.
And I think that one of the most important things for human evolution as a whole right now is that we all need to develop our intuition more. And the way we do that is we get in touch more with our inner
life. I think so much unhappiness in the world, so much of the sorrow and the depression and those negative things, is due to people not being able to connect with their own inner world, because that the Indian mystics tell us that the Indian the inner world, when we really fully connect with it, is the source of endless bliss. It's beautiful, you know, and we need to bring that beauty out into the world and let it form our
world in a beautiful way. If you're not a meditator, and you just mentioned when we started, Maharishi mesh Yogi, who is my guru, I learned trans I'm so happy to hear that. How well. Well, when I learned transitental meditation when I was eighteen, so I was. I know, I've been meditating for a long time. But for those who don't meditate, John, how do they tap in? Do they close their eyes and ask for support? What is your suggestion for those who are not aligned with
Eastern philosophy? You know, I think a person that answered that question very well is Eckhart told and what he said was. One good way is follow your breath, just observe your breath, just just track it with your attention. Just put your attention on your breath. Another way is to just put your attention on your body, like what am I feeling? You know, what what am I feeling? What's my body doing? What's what am I sensing going on in it? You know, don't try to think about what
it is or anything like that. Just experience it. And then the ultimate way is to just experience the void. If you can tap into the void, you've got it made. So somebody who's not into any of this spiritual or metaphysics tapping into the void, how would they go about doing it? They're sitting quietly, uninterrupted, and then what that's a good question. Transcendental meditation takes you into the void. That's a set up to that, and
everything comes from the void. Okay, here's the deal. Become two people. You know, one of you is thinking, whereas you know the thoughts are coming, coming, coming, coming. Also become the observer. Just watch your thoughts. When you're watching your thoughts, that that'll take you into the void. Mm hmm. Just just observe your your mind thinking don't try to stop it, don't try to fight with it or control it or something like that. Just watch what and when I say thoughts, I mean emotions
too. Watch the feelings coming up. Just observe. It's so simple, it's very simple. I want you to think about that. I mean, you sound like you're a meditator because you brought up maharishi. Uh. If you're a meditator, you I've been telling people since I started this podcast that they need to seek and learn a real simple form of meditative practice because it's extremely important to quiet the brain, quiet the mind. And I have been
practicing for over thirty years, and I have benefits I can't describe. Yeah, I believe that it was about ten years ago that they did. It might have been longer that they did scientific studies that show it actually does it heals you. It heals you, Yes, and it helps you process data? Oh yes, yes. And you know I was reading in one book I even forget what book it was, but it said that when you go into the void, when you finally align you know, with the emptiness,
what it does is it releases karma. In other words, any negative karma you're carrying holding on to it, releases it. And that's why it's such a wonderful thing to do, to do a simple meditation releases karma without identifying what the karma is, just because karma's layered, you know, exactly.
So maybe that's an interesting statement. I've never heard that before, you know, one of my favorite things that Maharishi said about you know, well, you have to release this and you kind of like someone was talking about having to know what it is or whatever, and Maurice said, oh no, to release karma, he says, you don't have to know what it is. He says, it's like taking the trash out. You don't have to know what's in the trash bag to carry it to the curb. That's a
good point. Yeah, I mean, that's why we're here physically, is that we're working on our karma. We're going to take a short commercial break and we will return with my guest today, John Sandbach, discussing his new book, Sole Journey through the Toureau. Will be right back. My guest today is author John Sandbach, who has written a book on to row.
John is a lifelong astrologer but also has been practicing to row for many, many many years, and this book is a condensed version of his understanding and his teachings of the practice. John, let's talk talk about a few cards. Somebody has decided to do a past president future review on their own and they pull a couple of cards. Can you address one or two? Let's let's talk about the messenger, the mangus. What happens when we pull the
messenger? What does that mean? Well, you know, the Kabala has the idea of seeds that in the beginning is the seed. Yeah, so the messenger card is the first card, and so it's the seed of the whole taro. And the messenger card is ruled by mercury. And it's about communication. And one of the things it takes to really perfectly communicate is flexibility. You need to be flexible. So what that card is telling you to do is be flexible, be open information, Uh, communicate, say what's
on your mind to the people who need to hear it. Would you say as a reader that when you pull the card on somebody, it's saying be less reticent. Speak out your mind, is what you're suggesting. Speak your mind exactly. And also another thing about that card is stay in the moment, in the moment, and because it's in the moment that communication happens, that's where it happens. So track with what the other person is saying.
And you know, we people think of communication as like what what I'm saying, What I'm saying is communication, But that's the yng of communication. The yin or the passive part of communication is listening, really taking in what the universe is trying to tell you. The universe is trying to tell me something right now, and it's using you. It's using you to tell me things. You know, everybody we meet, everything that happens to us, is
trying to tell us something. Listen. So that's what that card is saying. Okay, how about number six the Crossroads or the two paths when you pull that car? Such a beautiful card. That card has a very complex
iconography. Maybe I'll mention to a painting by Titian where it's I forget the name of the painting, but it's something like natural beauty versus refined beauty, you know, and it's these two women and they're out in a landscape and one of them is completely naked standing there and the other one is dressed in this finery. You know, she's all jewelry and whatever like that, And
it's a metaphor for you know, sophistication versus simplicity. And it's not saying that one is necessarily even better than the other, but that you have to choose. That card is about choosing. That's why it's called the two Paths. And of course we always will choose what we're attracted to. And so that card is about attraction and it's ruled by Venus, which is the astrological
planet of attraction, and ultimately it's love. And you know, six is a perfect number because the only things that will divide into six are one, two, and three, And when you add one, two and three you get six. Mm hmm. There's only one number like that between one and ten, and that's six. Between one and one hundred, there's only one number like that, and it's twenty eight. We won't go into why you improve it or anything like that. That six is perfect number, and that
makes sense because Venus is love. That car is about love. You keep talking about numbers, so obviously your interpretations you've got numerology, you add a little astrology cabal, and then contemplative life into the car descriptions that you've created. Yes, So give us a little bit about the crossroads in terms of astrology in the cabal. Okay, well, there's two principles in alchemy called and coagula. And coagula means kind of coming together, connecting with and salve
a is like dissolving, dispersing, moving away from. So everything in our environment we either want to connect with it or we want to move away from it, go against it kind of thing, you know. And really in relationships we need both things. If you have a relationship with someone where you're both very very much alike, like extremely alike, probably get bored. So you want somebody who's different enough from you that there's this kind of dissonance that
makes it interesting. Same thing in music. If there's too much harmony, the music's not interesting. The great composers are masters of using dissonance and then resolving the dissonance, dissonance, bringing it up and then you know, dispersing it kind of thing. And that's what this card is about. It's about the idea of beauty. What is beauty, what you find beautiful, It's about what you're attracted to. So hmm, interesting talk for a minute,
John, about unseen forces in our life. If we are physical biological beings and we pull a to row deck, we we we pull three cars past president of future. I'm using that as a reference because I can't think of I mean, you pull one card. We can say too, what are we asking for? And should we have an intention when we use our cards? The turo Dick talk about, Yes, whatever intention you bring to the
tarot, it will mirror back to you. So to use the tarot in a spiritual way, you want to have the intention to receive spiritual help. If you carry that intention when you use the tarot, that's what it'll mirror back to you. But but for those who are not familiar with spiritual help, give us a definition a little more. I mean, your book helps with the definition because you're giving the person who is receiving the reading data on
their reality. Right, yes, okay, yes, but that data is coming from so unseen forces that are influencing the biological self, right, yes, okay, carry that on. What else are they getting when they're getting and reading? Such an interesting question because you know, in my book there's a lot of intellectual type things like objective rational knowledge, But one thing that makes me so very pleased about my own book is that when I read it,
I feel like stuff is going on below the surface. I feel like there's lurking energies down there kind of thing, and something's happening on a subliminal level. And that's what I want when you read that book. I want the actual reading of the words to be uplifting and healing and to give you to help you align with these spiritual forces. That's really ultimately, that would be the highest thing like that. I like that. I think the other thing is, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but
you're asking for support. You're asking from the unseen forces where you came from before you incarnated, to give you a sense of what is happening in this period of my life exactly exactly. And here's another thing too. If you get advice from the tarot and then you follow it, that will magnify the flow of advice. Oh. In other words, you know, if you have a friend and you keep going to them and say well I need this or that or can you help me with this, and then they help you.
If you go take that advice and it works, it helps you that's going to make them happy. You're going to go back, You're going to ask for maybe more advice like that, you know, and it says it's this wonderful flow. But see, some people use the tarot it kind of like it's it's just like TikTok, you know, like, oh, I want to know what's going on with this, and I want to know what's going on with that, and can I ask a question about this or that?
But it's more just like it's they're treating it like it's a movie or a pastime or an entertainment. You know, that's weakening the power of the taro ro to do that. I want to talk about a very very important part of your book that I didn't realize was important, but then when you emphasize it over and over again, is an important portion. And this is
correctly developing a question. The question cannot be It has to be an important question that you thought about, that you formulated, and then you thought about it and intended to get an answer for it, and then you pull your you shuffle your deck, and then you pull your cards. Talk about the importance of questions. Of course, the question will come out of intent and
as I just mentioned. You know, intent is very very important. People are always sitting down with the I have a reading to do later today, and I bet you anything. As so often happens, people will ask me a question that the answer is yes or no. Oh my God. Doesn't tend to like yes or no questions. Yeah, it's yes or no questions lack creativity. And also they imply fatalism hmm, Like if you say, oh, am, I am I going to at this job I applied for.
That kind of a question comes out of anxiety. You know, they already told you that they're going to send you an email in two days and tell you whether or not you got the job. So why are you coming to me to want to know the day before whether you're going to get it? You know, it's just anxiety. It's a question that's born out of anxiety. So it's important to think about what your questions are born out of. And I sympathize with people having anxiety and asking questions based on that,
but I want to help them to see that they have power. We all have so much untapped power, and we create our reality through our beliefs, and so as we change our beliefs, we can change our reality, and
the tarot can help you find ways of doing that. So somebody buys a deck and they buy your book, Sole Journey through the Toureau, and perhaps the deck comes with a very simplified version of interpreting the cards, and they shuffle the cards and they've listened to to this podcast and they know now not to just say yes or no, yes or no. How do they go about formulating the best questions for the energetics of tourou ask questions like what do
I have to learn from this situation? Okay? Another question? Okay, So five minutes before this podcast started, I said, what's going to be the vibration around this podcast? And I got our canum twenty one? I'm sorry, no, I got our can of nineteen. Great, that's just great. Tell me, I don't know that card. What does that define that? That card is called the Sun, and what it's about is expression
expressing something. And so see when I asked the question what are the vibrations around this, I'm not only asking that, but I'm saying, Okay, if that's the vibration, then what I want to do is I want to flow with it. If I flow with that vibration, it'll enhance what's going on. And our Can of nineteen is about self expression, and so that told me that you most likely were going to assist me in expressing what I need to express. Oh, and I think you've done a great job of
that. I think everything we've touched on are the most important things. Oh fascinating, and I think you've been really good at getting there. And that goes with that Arcan of nineteen, which is ruled by Leo, and Leo's
about dramatization. Dramatization of something I'm working to get across the concepts to my listening audience who are likely interested in using the cards, but I'm about energy, seeing and unseen energy, and as a physical being and a long time meditator, talking about energy isn't the always easiest thing because we experience it, but explaining it or trying to define it to others is a challenge because there could be and I've seen this all through my life, is that different people
are waking up at different times. Somebody could be fundamental religious, then they got over that they didn't want to deal with it anymore. Another part of their body and brain and soul turned on and all of a sudden, now they're interested in to row, they're interested in channel material, they're interested in working with difinition, which is what yes row is. And so for them,
I'm like, okay, I'd like you to try to row. It's a very inexpensive way to discover elements about yourself, right, yes, but even more so, and you said this in the very beginning, John, it's a form of evolution because you can see and get a sense. And I want you to talk about this of where you're heading. Yes, One thing I want to say right now about that is keep a Tarot journal.
It's such a wonderful thing. Oh and you don't have to put a lot of energy into a bit, like if you ask if do a three card reading, right down the three cards and just jot down on what the question was. The reason being is so often people go back and look at that and they and then they get further perspective on it. They go, oh, yeah, now that all this other stuff has happened, I can look back and see where that was right there. It's a great idea. I
was right there in the cards, you know. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine Also if you're looking at a passage in your journal that's like five years ago, and you can kind of see how you moved along. Yes, exactly what choices you made as you were pulling cards. Yes, Now back to your question though, what kind of what was your question? I forgot? I think I was asking about the energetics behind well, energetics. Yeah, energetics is a fun thing because you know, it's everywhere and everything,
our whole body, that's what. That's all the material world, it's all energetics. And I am an animist and animism is really a part of Kabbala. My heart and soul is with Kabbala. And what animism believes is everything is alive. Oh right, and everything is alive. Yeah, And you know, Kabbala says that you should. It's very good to be nice to physical objects. Treat them well. A gratefulness is a good thing. Thank them for being there, thank them for helping you. That's energy that
puts that energy toward them, and life is a big mirror. So we emanate this energy and then we get back to us. That's what car that's what karmen is. Yeah, we're getting back what we're putting out. You do talk a lot about karma. In the closing time we have together, can you pull a couple of cards and read share your book? Let's pull let's pull a card on Uh, what do we want to talk about? What? How does the year end for those of us living in the United
States? Something that's broad? Okay? And why don't you just set an intention and shuffle the deck? Pull a card in this, open your wonderful book and see what we find. Okay, And now, and what question are we going to ask? What as the years ending? What? What can we look forward to? How something like that? Okay? Like what are the vibrations around the rest for the rest of the year. Yeah, well, in the few weeks we have left, okay, and so and
shall we do three cards on this? Let's pull one and then we'll have we'll have time for one more card pulling. Okay, Uh, we're gonna pull a card. Vibrations for the rest of the year. We got the Five of Swords, the Five of Swords? Okay, you want to pull your book? Well, I hate to say it, but you know this is very like it's about obstruction. It can be about obstruction, Okay, It's about a need to address definite physical problems, and it's also about the
substantiation of something. Hmmm. You know, there's a lot in the world now that's up in the air. This seems to say that some of this stuff is going to be decided for us. Would you say it's going to be decided for us? Well, it's going to be decided one way or the other. Oh, okay, one way or the other. Yeah. And you know, I in a way, I'm reticent about saying this, but I'm going to say it because sad Guru, who I think very highly of, said it that the time frame we're living in now, you just
can't stay where you are anymore. You can't. You're either going to progress or you're going to fall behind. So it's very very important right now to get on a spiritual wavelength and at a very high level. This card is about manifesting spirituality, m manifesting the spiritual meaning and in in a highly tangible physical way, like doing what you can to help people to be a positive
force in the world. I like that. Yeah. Okay, So once you mix up the deck and you think it's something that's kind of a broad question that covers covers a humanity. If you want to say that I'm going to go back to the question that you ask we got the five of Swords for and I often do this. I'm going to ask for another card that will point the direction to specifically, how do we do what I just said? Oh I like that so kind of a you know, how do we
h instrument travel through this next phase or sort of exactly the chariot. Hmm, well, us, that sounds very very active. Oh yeah, and the Chariot is about rising above things, getting an overview. You know. Ah, there's so much in the world today that can make people feel powerless, you know, make us feel like we're at the mercy of things. Just being kind to each other is so such a big thing, such a powerful thing. That can be a way of spreading light through the world.
And you know, when you go out in the world and someone is unkind to you so much of many people have the first reaction of like get away from that, or react to it in a negative way, or shut it out or something like that. But if you put kindness out toward that source of the unkindness, it can have a very positive influence. The Chariot is a very friendly card. It's a very fellowship card. It's a card about making making connections. So I'd say we need to generate joy and that will
be a way of helping to deal with these obstructions. If you are suggesting that we're friendly, being more kindly and loving towards our neighbor, our friends and associates, is that also reaching out and being more demonstrative of of UH friendship and hearing? Yes? Absolutely, mm hmm absolutely, Okay, I like that Sagetarius. That card is ruled by Sagittarius, which is about rising about things rising, you know, rising about fascinating. The books called Soul
Journey through the Terreau Key to a complete spiritual practice. And my guest today has been John Sandback. John, give us your website for those of want to get more information and by the way, those of you listening, John does private readings if you go to his site. But go ahead and give us the details of your website, John, Oh, yes, I will. And the private readings. I do terror terrort readings. I do astrology
readings both and psychic readings. And the website is johnsandboch dot net. Okay, let me ask you, when you say you do astrology, do you do Sdeial or do you do Hindu? I do tropical astrology, Western astrology, Western astrology. Wow, fantastic, Hey, this has been a lot of fun for those of you listening in. The book just came out. It's only been out for I guess it came out the first part of November fourteenth. Oh, came out almost a month ago. Yes, so it's
been on Amazon. It is packed, filled full of amazing material. It is not a light read at all, but it's important that we read it in sections. And what I like about it is he gives the arcade, the minor and major focal points, and then breaks him down and gives a great deal of material. So I'm going to read this real quickly. This is what John writes. The purpose of this book is to promote a crystalline, therapeutic and spiritual understanding of the Toureau in this new age we've been in
the process of entering now for a good while. Fantastic John, And I love that to hear that, because that means that you thought about this book and it's come through after fifty plus years of work that you've done and the various levels that you've obtained and dealt with as a personal biological being. Yes, well, thank you so much. This has been wonderful for me, and you've been so very supportive. I'm so great. I'm so grateful that
we've made contact with each other. My pleasure, John, and hey, continue success and I hope you sell a ton of these books. Oh well, thank you so much. Thank you. So that's all about tools and what does that mean. What it means is that if you only live in the dense physical world, you're missing out on a lot of subtleties. You're missing out on messaging, You're missing out on internal information that comes from the different aspects of who you are. Some people would call that your past lives,
your higher self, your soul whatever. They're constantly trying to communicate with you. And when you use a divining to a divining tool like to row, those messages come through, and that way you have better understanding of how your life is preceding what you should be doing, how to enjoy your life. And one of the big ones that John mentioned was burning karma, because you could be dealing with relationships, with jobs, with lifestyles that are too
challenging and you need to burn through those and do some other things. So it's good to have him on the program. It's a cool book. It's actually pretty good size. It's over three hundred pages, almost three hundred and seventy pages, and he has a lot of technique in here that he didn't talk about. Well. One of the things he brought up that he didn't mention. He mentioned it after we had finished, was to keep a touro
journal. So, in other words, you sit down, you intend to get information about a relationship or whatever, and you pull a one card, or you pull three cards, or you pull whatever, and you're beginning to read the interpretation, and you write that down, what happened, what is going on this day at this time, and my question is my relationship with
Billy, Bob or whoever. And then you then you write it down, and then you can go back and go, Okay, I was processing that and now I cleared it, or I'm still dealing with it and I need to pull another card. It's a way to kind of govern where you're at. So Toro journaling it was a great idea when he suggested it. We hear about journaling your dreams. You have a dream, wake up, write it down, then you can look at it later. It has more impacts,
so very very cool material. Again, more technique for you to delve in on the unseen higher levels of consciousness that are interacting with you on a regular basis, and this is how you connect with them. Hey, the holidays are here and that means gift giving. Got to get a gift for the kids, for the parents, for the friends, for the loved ones. Every everybody gets a gift. What do you get, Well, there's a lot of joy in giving gifts, and you know, you love to
see people open a gift that they really love that you gave them. Wonderful. But you need something to and I'd like to suggest an Earth Ancient's Destiny tour that we are doing in twenty twenty four. We will be in Egypt from April twenty sixth to May ninth for our Grand Egyptian Tour. It is world class for not for a very reasonable price. By the way, it's all covered. You get in the plane, you fly to Cairo. As soon as you get off the plane, you're met with by a representative of
Saba Tours, our tour director and his team. They take care of you. You're driven to the hotel. From the minute you step into the hotel to the minute you get back on the plane to go home, you are taking care of. It's a VIP tour. We see world class temples, pyramids, artifacts, and the food, the beverages, the bus ride, the entire tour is vip VP, or, as we like to joke, you are a diplomat of your city, your state, your country, your
universe, your planet, wherever you're from. So come out and join us. We're also going to be in Turkey. That's going to be August fourteenth through the twenty third of twenty twenty four. That tour is just about full for both tours and including our Mexico tour. Go to Earthancients dot com Forward slash Tours. Let us know what you think. Sign up, register and come out and join us. We're also giving until the end of the year a discount. If you use code get Grant Egyptian Tour twenty twenty four,
you'll get a couple hundred bucks off the price of admission. So our tours are fabulous. They are all inclusive, and they are mind blowing and fun. Earthacients dot Com Forward slash Tours. Okay, that's it. For today's program, I want to thank my guest John Sandbach, coming to us from Missouri his book on tourou As always a team of Gail tor Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock all right, take care, be well, and we will talk to you next time.