Welcome to Destiny.
Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, this is Cliff, your host of Destiny. How you doing. Welcome and come on in and have a chair. Let's talk a little bit about this week's program. I have to say what a great group of explorers we had on our Guatemala tour. Just finished it. It was spectacular two weeks of exploration. Be on the lookout for a special edition where I
talk with a number of the regional Guatemalan archaeologists. Their perspective on energy, temple energy, pyramid energy is much much different than Western archaelogists, and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised and really astonished at what they believe that what has been handed down through the generations on
pyramid tech. And if you want to see some of the photographs that were taking go to Earth Ancient's Facebook page and you'll see t call, You'll see a number of other sites, and you'll see some individuals that were with us, including archaeological experts in the form of archaeologists. Now there's a special edition, there's a program that will add what we have some small clips from various people that were on the tour, Guatemala is much different than Mexico.
The biggest issue is the biggest difference is that you can actually engage with the pyramids. You can actually climb them, you can sit and meditate. Most of the time we were at larger pyramids, those that our two hundred feet or taller. We attempted, in many cases succeeded in climbing to the top and doing meditation circles. And when you're sitting on top of those pyramids, they are generating toleric energy and pushing it out all over the place, and
so you're sitting on a battery in a way. And I'm still processing exactly what we experienced, but I would say at most of the sites that we were able to ascend climb the pyramids, we were engaged with energy, and you can't do that in Mexico. You cannot engage with pyramids, you cannot engage with temples. They've banned people from doing ceremony, They've banned people from doing meditation. They've even banned for most of the country shaman, the native
indigenous population, from doing ceremonial programs. And that is just crazy. And I think I've been talking about this now for a few years. This has to do with the church. This is not the government. This is the church stepping in and saying we do not want people to engage in higher levels of consciousness. We do not want them to become powerful and aware and self guided. We do not want that. So we are going to close this down.
And it's done a terrible injustice, not only to the indigenous populations, but for anybody who's traveling down there now. One of the ways to get around that is to find recently excavated and open sites, and that's those are places that haven't been coordinated with the government or with the church, and so you can go and you can climb stuff and meditate. You can actually meditate, but you can meditate at the base. You cannot climb pyramids. I
was shocked last year when we were in Yucatam. And my favorite site is Ushmol on the western edge of the peninsula. It's one of the golden sites of the Maya, one of the last sites, and it has a very special energy. And the way you contact it is you climb the great pyramid. You set up on top for you know, fifteen to twenty minutes, and you're bathed in this energy. Well, you can't climb that pyramid anymore. And
the Great Pyramid is beautifully reconditioned. It's made for you know, people to climb on and engage, but it's off limits. So I can recommend Guatemala very freely. The people are warm, the hotels are wonderful. I will say this though. When we flew into Guatemala City, I didn't realize it was five thousand feet above sea level. And I am very sensitive to high elevations, and so I had a tough time at tel. And thank you Brad Toy for handing me some candies that he had returned from Peru. And
these candies contain coca leaf. And when you're chewing or sucking on a candy with coca leaves, your body is acclimating. You don't get high. It's not like snorting cocaine or chewing cocaine. It is the leaf that changes your metabolism so that you can adapt better. And I had I think Brad gave me ten of these things. It is as a savior. It saved me because I'm having a hard time slavying and having a hard time meditane. I
just it takes me a long time to acclimate. I'm just getting older and sensitive, but I really appreciate it that Brad, so thank you. And that's something to think about if and you can't get this stuff across the online because it's illegal in the States and it's probably illegal in Mexico. But I'll tell you, if you have any sensitivity to high elevations like I do, those those candies, those dried coca leave candies are a miracle. They are
a miracle. I actually looked it up, and people use them quite regularly when they go to Lima, when they go not Lima, when they go to Peru or Cusco or machu Picco. It's a way to acclimate. So there you go. I was very happy to have those candies along with me. So great tour. Look for the special edition with a number of very special guests that describe t call and describe the experience that people are having when they engage with pyramids. Today's program is very is
very appropriate. Seeking Your the title of the book is Seeking Your Loved One. On the other side, this is with doctor Matthew McKay. We've had Matthew on before and this is about lost loved ones, lost friends, and the holidays are just really hard on people who have recently loved a parent, a child, a friend, and those who
have lost people that are thinking about their passing. This is a way to communicate with those people to feel connected, to feel their love, to feel support, and communicate with him. The title of the book again is Seeking Your Loved One on the other Side, Communications with the Invisible Universe. And this is an important book and very very easy to follow to connect with someone who has departed. And
I know how people feel. You know, you lose a friend, you lose a parent or a child or someone that you're close to, and it's just wrenching during Christmas time because you're missing them. You're sitting and you're kind of like wallowing and self pity. It's tough. It's really really tough. So I think you're gonna like this. The techniques are very easy to learn. These are techniques that are ancestors used.
And the other theme on this program is how our ancestors work with the dead to understand their physicality, to understand what happens when we pass over into death. And also it's a form of evolution when we are communicating with the souls of our departed loved ones and friends. Because they have not only the ACASHK records to work with, they have a lot of other information that you'll find that you can work with to better your life. This program is seeking your loved one on the other side,
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subscriptions started today. Holladays are a joyous time time to get together with loved ones and friends, but it's also difficult if you've lost someone. If you've had a friend pass away or a relative, it can really hurt and make you feelings feel sad and lonely. But I think I have a suggestion. We have a returning guest that may be a way to connect with your departed friend or family member. We're talking about a new book called Seeking Your Loved One on the other Side, Communications with
the Invisible Universe. My returning guest this week is doctor Matthew McKay. He is a clinical psychologist and professor at Wright Institute, founder of the Berkeley CBT Clinic, and He has written a number of books on the death of his son Jordan and techniques on communicating with Jordan, which are included in this new book. So, Matt, welcome back to Destiny've got to have you on the program.
Great to be with you, Cliff, Thank you.
This is a tough time for people who have had lost loved ones, isn't it? Christmas? The holidays?
It's just and it's an ache that people experience all year round, and yet at the holidays there's this marked absence of this human that we've loved and is no longer there at the table, is no longer there to greet us, to hug us, to celebrate and eat with us. I mean, it's just, you know, it adds to the pain.
Yeah, talk a little bit about Jordan. Of course, we know that he passed away, it's been almost ten years now. But you were distraught. You and your wife were very upset and were seeking ways to communicate with him, not really knowing where to go. But was what was going on with you personally at Matt. Was it the fact that you were just so distraught and upset that you just were out of your mind with wanting to know how he was talk a little bit about his Jordan's passing.
Yeah, he died suddenly. He was assaulted on the street in San Francisco by four men and he was shot in the back and died on the street. And so you know, we were completely unprepared for losing him. But I think my reaction, in Judy's reaction, it was the same I suspect as many parents who've lost a child and that is too desperately want to know does that humans still exist? Does that person that we love still exist?
And if so, are they okay? You know, how are they wherever they are residing now on the other side. And so those were the questions that just were so compelling to me and drove me to keep looking for answers, you know. And like a lot of people, I started out with mediums. Talk to Felix Lherma, the famous medium in San Francisco, Boston Wells, and I had the experience of there listening to Jordan and then conveying to me what he was saying. But it was not a conversation.
It was I mean, at best it was one sided, but it was it was a feeling of wanting to know more, but also wanting to say something myself and and and engage with him. And so I mean, I appreciated them, and I value them, Tilly Austin Wells, who's meant a lot to me. But I was left with this sense of, yeah, maybe he's there. I hope this is true. But I had no way of really communicating directly with him. So that was a big, you know,
struggle for me. And the struggle continued, and eventually I started consulting a fellow named Alan Botkin who developed accidentally something called induced after death communication. Yeah, and he's a psychologist like I am, and he worked with folks who mostly Vietnam Vets, who had profound grief because they lost someone during the war. And he discovered and he uses
the MDR which I use for my trauma clients. But by accident, he made a small variation in the MDR protocol and a Vet had the experience of fully seeing, hearing this nine year old girl he had lost in Vietnam he was about to adopt, and then she stepped on a mine and died in his arms, and he had this experience of she was there, she was communicating with him, and his grief disappeared. I mean he was
healed by the experience. And so you know, Bodkin went on to treat lots and lots of people, mostly vets, and at one point he did his study and he had eighty nine vets who had profred grief, and he didn't tell them what to expect. He just used the MDR, which is pretty ordinary and classic treatment for trauma, and eighty one of them had what he called induced after death communication, so they actually heard, saw experienced that loved one. So it was an amazing thing.
So I.
Went to Chicago to see him and see if I could have that experience. And I did have that experience, and it blew my mind. I heard Jordan and he was very clear, and he was telling me the things I needed to know. He was telling me that he's okay, he loves us, he's watching over his and he's in a place where he's very happy and.
Doing well.
So that was a great experience and very profound, and it did help mitigate my grief.
Why did you feel the need to move beyond that? And we're going to talk about Ralph Metzer's work here in a second, but that if you got the relief you were seeking, in this technique induced after death communication. Why didn't you pursue that more fully?
Yeah, that's a really good question because I do this with clients, with my own grief clients, and I'm not as good as a doctor Budkin, but I have you know, about fifty sixty percent of them actually do have induced after death communication, and it's usually the case that they feel such relief that, you know, they may not need any more than that. For me, I really needed to have a conversation because this is still one sided. Jordan
was talking to me. I did hear him, and it was very clear, but I wasn't able to ask questions. I wasn't engaging. And you know, he and I had hundreds and hundreds of conversations in life, sitting around the kitchen table, talking about everything in the world, and I wanted to have that experience.
You had a very communicative relationship, is what it sounds like.
We did and we still do. And what I was thinking was to somehow recreate or recapitulate a relationship where we could talk to each other. I could ask questions, he could ask me questions. We could talk as much and as long as we wanted.
Yeah, I also want to ask you, because I know Austin Wells very well. We've had her on the show a couple of times, why did your wife find relief in the mediumship? In you? Not it was just the fact that you were on the science side of it, you weren't getting the satisfaction that you needed. Or was it just that you wanted to move beyond mediumship and it was I think you mentioned somewhat frustrating for you, and perhaps you know that's why you decided to work with I met Ralph.
Yeah.
One of the things that it's just sort of become more and more clear to me is that spirit souls on the other side in the spirit world used different means to communicate and connect with us. And for Judy, she could feel Jordan's presence in her body and she could feel his presence and has ever since she's been able to feel his presence. And it isn't necessarily words
that she's getting. It's it's telepathic communication of a sense of things that that doesn't necessarily involve language, and that's been very reliable for her. It's it's something that sustains her. I'm different, I need lang. I communicate via language and Jordan has been willing and able to communicate to me via words, and so I've ended up relying more on that, and she has continued to feel his presence as she
first I think did in a session with Austin. So we have different and I see this over and over again with clients who are struggling with grief. When I teach them how to do channeling, they often get messages differently. Some of them get messages as images it's just pictures. Some of them get messages as words, of course, sometimes
as just not knowing without words. So the messages show up in different ways, and sometimes physical just the experience of that person actually merging in their body and they can feel it, that soul inside of them. So there are these different ways show up for us, and for me, Jordan has shown up with language, with words, and those words I've been able to put into books and to hopefully help people.
Yeah, I want to get into the training that you were given by Ralph Metzner here in a second. But did have you and did you have dreams with Jordan and your wife have dreams where you were communicating with him at all? Because you mentioned this in the book and I think this is something that a lot of people may be able to reference, is that they are having dreams of departed loved ones, usually right after they've left the planet.
Yeah, you know, Yes, the answer is yes. And I would say the majority of people have some very profound dream after a loved one passes. And there's a difference between dreaming about love one and having a visitation.
Uh.
And and a visitation that occurs during a dream or at night has a vividness and an emotional intensity and clarity that dreams don't usually have. And I did have a number of dreams and visitations where Jordan was uh with me, and in one in one case, I was actually holding him as he was dying. In another, in another dream, uh, he was leading me into a library of of of where souls on the other side live and a place of truth and letting me know that I could communicate with him there.
I mean.
So, I've had over the years quite a few of the you know, And there's a difference there. Some of them are just dreams, but then some of them have this this vividness of a visitation. I had one a couple of nights ago, hugging him and I could feel his body and had a level of reality and intensity that again, dreams for me don't usually include. So yes, I think that's one of the ways that so it's probably the easiest way that souls can reach us is
through dreams and the telepathic manipulation of our dreams. They can actually, in many case manipulate the images in our dreams so that we can have a sense of them that we might not be able to have otherwise.
Now, really the beauty of your book, Matt is the fact that you want to help people develop a technique to communicate with departed loved ones and friends. And can you explain why this is important? Why the afterlife isn't just another place to go that in your belief and I think also our ancestors, working with the dearly departed or the dead is part of living, right.
It's you know, what you're saying is really important because what Jordan has taught me is that the relationship between the living and the dead, and the love that exists between the living and the dead is absolutely unbreakable. And uh and so and we don't realize that we you know, the person has gone, We don't see them, we can't touch them and we had We don't realize, as Ralph told me, that they're just a thought away, that we can actually open the channel and communicate with them just
by a simple act of intention. I want to talk to Jordan, and when I say that, and when I think of him with love, I'm starting to open the channel. And we don't realize that. You know, we think of our loved ones and we have this wave of grief and loss, and and we don't even have the understanding that that very moment in which we're thinking king of them with love is opening the channel and we could use the channel by asking them questions and engaging in
a conversation. And so it's kind of it's interesting that, you know, we're actually in many cases opening the channel all the time, but not thinking to actually engage with the loved one in an active, present moment way of asking questions and receiving answers. And that's what Ralph taught me. He taught me how to channel, and so that was
what I'd been looking for. It was the opportunity to finally have a two way conversation, to not just hear what had Jordan had to say, but spontaneously whatever he wanted to say to me, but also to ask questions and engage with him and learn from him and have a conversation. And so Ralph showed me, Yeah, it was probably. It took me to come half an hour to explain it to me, and I can do it with people now in five or six minutes.
Really, wow, explain the us.
And from that, you know, that night I went home and I started channeling with Jordan, and it changed my life. I'm not and and and that realization that these relationships continue to exist, that the love continues to exist, and we can reach for that person anytime we want. That, you know, really again, profoundly changed my life.
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, doctor Matthew McKay, discussing his new book, Seeking Your Loved One. On the other side will be right back lines of the door.
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Christmas time again, they say, it's so pretty. My guest today is doctor Matthew McKay. He has extended his work with his son Jordan, who passed away over ten years ago, and has released a new book called Seeking Your Loved One on the other Side. This is a book on working with dearly departed loved ones. Yeah, I want to talk about Ralph's technique here and have you explained the basics of it. But before we do that, obviously, Jordan is your was your son. He is your son still,
He's in a different dimension. But have you gone beyond your relationship with him to communicate with others that have passed.
A little bit?
Not much. I've communicated a little bit with my dad and a little bit with my mom, but my primary, the source of communication from the other side is Jordan. Part of it is because I think he and I had agreed, you know, at my when we were you know, coming to this planet and we were agreeing to be
parent and child. We agreed that we were going to be doing this work after his death that we were we were he was going to convey through me, and I was essentially going to be a scribe and write down that the things that he could tell us about the afterlife, about death, about the purpose of life. I mean he had he has had over the years, loss and loss say about these very profound issues and questions.
And I and we had apparently agreed before you know, coming to this planet, that we would make an attempt to do that after his death. In fact, in a previous life he was we lived in a yeshiva, and he was an old rabbi and I was a young firebrand. And after he died, I was attempting to do the same thing, which almost got me kicked.
Out of the yeshiva.
They didn't want to hear about my conversations with the dead, particularly since some of the things he was telling me really didn't fit with orthodox ideas anyway. So I, you know, apparently we decided to do that in this life.
And you know, he what he.
Does is periodically he'll just say, Okay, now we're going to do a book on such and such, and in the space of five minutes, he'll outline the entire book, everything that's going to be in it. And then over the next you know, nine ten, he will go through each of the chapters and essentially dictate them to me.
Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, Yeah, let's talk about discovering Ralph Metzer's material. It's called channel writing. Yeah, you gave up one of the key components, which is intention. Yeah, but talk about how someone can who's listening right now can work with this. Obviously you need to buy the book because we're not going to get into the specific details, but in a general way, Matt, what what are we talking about in terms of of the I'm going to call it the software to access the hardware.
Well, I can describe the steps and you can get people if they want, can get more information from the book and also learn a lot. But but Jordan has to say about life and death. But it's actually pretty simple. It's it starts with it's helpful to have something physical that connects you to the loved one. It could be something they gave you or something that they they owned that you you can keep. Because physical objects do kind
of open the open the channel a little bit. And so have have a physical object if you can, that belonged to or was given to you by that loved one. Have something that helps with eye fixation. This isn't absolutely necessary, but it helps to get into a receptive mode of that allows for supports channeling. So a candle works great, just you know, have a little candle that what I have a candle that my daughter gave me and and that I use traditionally as I start to channel with Jordan,
and now you know you've got you. Now we want to have a simple kind of a postitium meditation, of a breath based meditation. And you can use other technique. You can't even use prayer. You can use auto hypnosis, you can use there are different ways you can open the channel, but the simplest and easiest way is a breath based meditation. So you just simply bring your attention down to your diaphragm, aware of that place in your
body you note the breath. It's the simplest thing is to count each out breath one, two, three, four, counting maybe up to ten out breaths, and then a thought. If a thought occurs, bring your attention back to your breath. It's just those three things. Attention down your diaphragm, count each out breath, and then when the thought occurs, bring your attention back to your breath. And so you might go through several counts of ten until you just feel
like you're receptive, you're ready. Your mind has slowed a little bit, there's a quieting inside of you. And and that really then is you know, preparing the groundwork.
Uh.
And then Ralph taught me, when you feel that kind of receptivity and quietness and readiness, you know, think with love about your loved one on the other side. Just you know, just be aware of your love for them. Visualize an orb about the color of the sun, maybe six inches from your top of your head, and then allow it to elongate and reach all the way to the spirit world and to your loved one. And with
that and that's your intention. My intention is to communicate, and the address of this conversation is going to be my particular loved one in the spirit world. And as I as I extend the orb into a tube, that is the channel, the channel opens. Okay, really is that simple that? But here's the other thing. You have to it's very important to have for this to be written down.
And so.
Ideally you have a maybe a nice notebook that you can keep all these conversations in. And I value that because I first forget some of the things and then I get to read them again. And that it really means a lot to me to read his words and so I encourage people to have a nice notebook that they can write down the fruits of these conversations and
then write the first question. And as you write the question, it helps actually deepen this almost trancelike state that you're entering and actually watching the words form on the page, and then just wait and inside your mind the first word that shows up, write it down, and wait for the next thing that shows up, and so forth, and don't worry about whether.
It's true or it's not true.
I mean, yes, of course we always have doubts, but just write down whatever shows up. And our minds are not going to be empty for long, and so whatever shows up, just start and wait for the next part of the sentence, and the sentence to finish, and then wait for the next sentence and for that to finish until it feels like there's been a pause, and then you can write the next question. And as I said, you know, the things that loved ones will communicate with
us come in different ways. Sometimes it comes as a download, and we just know this huge knowing. One time Jordan downloaded an entire book to me at once, the entire.
Does that feel like, Matt, What does that feel like? When that happens.
Oh my god, it's really I mean, it sort of sounds silly to say it's intense, but it is. It's really intest because I actually was with at that moment, I was with Austin Wells and we were talking about Jordan. Suddenly, you know, this entire psychotherapy came down and concluding with images, charts, pictures, uh uh, steps in a treatment process. The whole thing just showed up. And after I left Austin, I went down and took me hours to write it all out.
So what I'm getting at is that sometimes these things can show up as as an entire awareness, uh, very complex, and then we have to later go out and find the words to describe what what actually has been shown to us. So these these are things that are telepaths. All these are communications are telepaths.
Did you communicate to Jordan like, dude, this is too much, you got to give it to me it's or did he just was excited?
He was just excited and I was excited. I loved it, and I later turned it into a book and a whole therapy effect of the therapy that we use in our trauma clinic.
Uh.
And I you know.
This is an important piece of work that was down.
It was an important was the whole all the steps of the therapy just showed up at once, and the whole thing showed up and I was blown away. And look, but I loved it. I mean, it was this incredible experience. Now, you know, most of the time we don't get you know, the big download. Sometimes we have just things that are showing up in a couple of words at a time, and very very focused.
Uh.
And other times sometimes we I've had experiences where I can't even keep up writing as fast as I'm getting information, and I'm just I'm all slow down shortan wait, I can't get on and what I'm but what I'm suggesting is and is that there the information. The communication can happen in different ways.
Uh.
And and then as I mentioned, sometimes just images alone, just just pictures which we then have to do something with to try to retain and and and make sense.
So yeah, and and different souls have different styles, right.
I want you to talk a little bit about the new person, the person who's listening, who wants to try this. What are they going to feel, Matt, What are they going to feel when they're connecting. Is it going to be like aha, or I feel that person that feels like that feels like Jack or Bill or somebody. What are they gonna What's going to make them realize this is happening? And yeah, just out of the blue.
A lot of people actually do have body sensations.
I do.
It starts serving my scalp as the channel starts to open, and I can feel sensations at the top of my head. Sometimes when Jordan is present with me, I will feel it as sort of an electrical current in my body. And a lot of people who do channeling will describe that they can feel something happening in their body that coincides with the opening of the channel, the beginning of the communication process. So that's one thing that we can we can notice we're not hearing the words as if
they're coming from outside our body. We're hearing them inside our own minds telepathic. So it's not, you know, don't expect that you're going to hear you know, like the word of God, you know, from the mouth Sinai coming down and and and and telling you something. It's it's internal. But what people notice who channel is that they learn things they that loved ones tell them things that never occurred to them that that and never in their wildest
strange do they have that idea. And clearly it's coming from somewhere else, that idea, that concept. And oftentimes they notice that the style of communicating and use of language is very different from their own and very very similar
to or identical to the loved one has passed. So people have the experience that's that some some different entity is communicating to them because they're telling them things they have never thought, and they're telling them things in a way and with in a style and with a language that is not their own.
It's not typical of them. Uh.
And and so I mean, Jordan has said so many things to me that blew my mind that never ever occurred to me before. And and so he keeps doing that. And and if you keep communicating and use a channel writing with your with a loved one, you will learn things that never ever occurred to you.
Uh.
Also, you can ask loved ones about their their experience. I've talked to a couple recently whose son passed away committed suicide, and they were and they asked him how that happened, and what what what lay beneath that very you know, enormous decision and and they got information that was so different from anything they had imagined. Uh and
and so profound. So I guess that's another reason I think to engage in channel community, not only to re establish the relationship and the love, but to learn what these souls know. The souls now that we're talking to who are on the other side have in many cases had hundreds of lives, and they have access to all that knowledge, and they have access to the spirit world and all the knowledge in the spirit world, and they do a certain amount of merging with all and getting
downloads of knowledge from all. So they have an enormous database to share with us, and so they have enormous wisdom. And also they can advise us how to deal with things that we are stumped. We just don't know what to do. Jordan helps me all the time with things I'm wondering about with my daughter Beck and I'm very grateful for support and help. Yeah, and so we can get a lot of advice from these very wise loved ones who have access to knowledge that we don't have.
I love hearing that because this is one of the issues that is coming up in the work that we do here at Earth Ancients and Destiny, which is that our ancestors actually used their dead relatives, friends, and so on as a form of information and perhaps even to the point where the information that was downloaded was a
form of evolution. So this is extremely important. Do you have any sense of that, Matt when I mentioned that, you know, they were the ancients, that our ancestors were using the departed souls as information outlets.
Absolutely, I mean the whole concept of psychomanteums and you know those mirrors through which ancient Egypt not Greek people would communicate to the dead, but they would use that as a means of getting knowledge and and so it sort of opened this door through which knowledge could come
from the other world. And and you know, and of course there's a long tradition of mediumship in the ancient world in which uh, you know, savath savants could could communicate with the other side and help guide a community
or a group of people. So yes, the seeking knowledge from the other side has been something that's been part of our ancestral history and and we we sort of have forgotten that that there's all this knowledge and wisdom there that we we could access and and because of the role of acience in our lives, we've discounted what we could learn from.
It's too incredible for science with their testing, and the scientific method has to be proven and so forth and so on. I would think that a lot of this is discounted by orthodoxy as a woohoo, you know, craziness,
you know, but you're making a really good point. Can you describe your relationship with Jordan in terms of his downloads to you that are you mentioned they're helpful and you weren't very specific, but you know, perhaps giving you an idea of what the future looks like, or a machine or device, or a concept, maybe just a concept alone would be something that would take us to another level evolutionary wise.
Well, one of the things that Jordan says to me is that souls in spirit generally don't tell us much about the future. And and there's a reason for that, because because we come here for one reason, which is to learn every soul is, you know, and of course the Earth is not the only place souls incarnate. There planets everywhere where souls are incarnating in various kinds of animal forms and species, and so souls are incarnating in lots of places, but they do it for one reason,
which is to which is to learn. And our main task is to trying to learn how to love with all of the resistance that a physical environment creates, still loving, and and so that's that's our destiny, that's our work. And of course each of us comes with a fairly specific lesson plan and anticipating a lot of different things that are going to happen to us in a lifetime, all which will contribute to that lesson plan. So all
the pain we suffer is not our fault. It's not something that's wrong, or it's an indictment of our life or our choices. Pain is just an opportunity for us to learn. So all the souls come here for that one purpose, and they gather knowledge, wisdom, they learn, and they take it back to the.
Whole to all.
You know, So all is continuing, if you want to call all, God is continuing to evolve.
You know.
I grew up Catholic, and the Catholic idea is that God is you know, just perfect and does not grow or evolve. And God's main job is to sit there and make judgments about whether we've lived a good life or a bad life, and whether we're going to the hot place or the good place and all that stuff, none of that is true. God is continuing to evolve, and we are. Our special work, in our acred duty in some way is to come here and learn things that help God and all evolve. That's what we're doing.
And so God breaks into small little piece of pieces of consciousness us. We come here, we go through all these experiences, all his pain, all his struggle, and we and what we learned then gets uploaded back into a greater knowledge and awareness and all. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. Yeah, he talks about that. And these are the things he
teaches me. He says, Well, that's your purpose life, dad, And and and here is some of the specifics for your particular life and your particular journey in your particular lesson plan of what you need to work on.
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we all return shortly with my guest today, doctor Matthew McKay, discussing his latest book, Seeking Your Loved One. On the other side, we'll be right back.
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My guest today is doctor Matthew McKay. He has written a number of books with his son Jordan, who passed away over ten years ago. And this is a form of channeled writing, seeking information from the other side, from dearly departed. I have this image of you sitting down and him dictating to you, and you're running as fast as you can to get it down.
You know that's happened. Really, I'm getting writers cramp. I can't keep and yeah, and it's very sweet, It's it feels kind of wonderful to have these intense conversations. But also I feel like I'm I feel like I'm I'm in a classroom with the greatest teacher of all who's you know, who's who has all this knowledge, all this wisdom, And it's just it's and it's a tutorial just for me. Uh and of course with the purpose that I need to turn it into something to pass it on for other people to tell.
Yeah, is there a satisfaction in this communication with Jordan. Is it enough for you to feel obviously great gratitude, but the love that you are seeking.
I feel deeply connected to him what I had hoped for, which was to find him again, to have a conversation, to be able to re engage the deep love connection we have that Ralph gave.
Me the ability to do.
And all these years I've had this relationship with him and it has made a huge difference in my life.
He is not gone.
The love is not gone. And I would say that to anyone who who happens to be, you know, listening in on this, you know your loved one is still there. They're still conscious of you. You can open the channel anytime you want.
You can.
You can ask questions and learn some of what they know. You can get advice, you can learn about the afterlife and what to expect. And one of the things Jordan did was he you know, I've had a kind of a fear of death all my life, and and he
decided that we're going to write this book. I should say we He's going to write this book about about what to expect at death and how to prepare for it, which became another one of a book called The Luminous Landscape of the Afterlife and and he had this, you know, and he wanted to do it partly because I have always feared death, and but also he knows that that's
you know, ubiquitous. We mean, all of the people you know are trying to you know, are struggling with the possibility and prospect of death.
And he wanted to show them how to prepare for it.
And what what is on the other side exactly what is there?
What? What? What are you?
What is waiting for you?
And uh?
And so he used to have these missions and and that and he uses me for for providing this knowledge to others.
Yeah, amazing. Real quickly, you have a section in here that you've added five different points, uh, which you consider conversations that can help us gain And I want to kind of quickly go over first and most important is we preserved the connection across life and death divide, which is the fundamental of what you're saying, which is, even though the person has physically died, they are still there on a spiritual soul level, and as a soul living
in a physical body, you still have access to that person. I think that's the first point that you made that.
That's exactly right. And to me, that's the most important thing that I've learned from Jordan is that our relationships to the people we love never die and are always ever living, and the love between us is ever living and we can connect to it essentially whenever we want.
Yeah, it's amazing. The other one is we are able to receive support from the dead. We know when we are not that we are not alone without their love and counsel. And you've been kind of giving us a sense of that. But I think that we won't know that we're going to get love and counsel unless we do the process of the channel work, right.
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think people, many people develop a sense that their loved one is still there for them. I mean they sometimes, you know, they'll see animals that remind them of the loved one and behave in strange ways. And by the way, souls on the
other side can influence animal behavior. They don't become the animal, but they can influence animal behavior if they can make a bird walk over it and stand next to you for twenty minutes, and you know, and Jordan does that all the time Judy and I are at the beach, I mean, there is invariably a bird will just out of nowhere, just show up and just walk right up to us and in many case just sit there and look at us for many minutes.
At a time.
And you know, the bird is not Jordan, but Jordan is influencing the consciousness of the bird to do something unusual. And this I mean and lots of people realize that that they that birds and other animals do things that are unusual, and they realize there's a connection between that animal behavior and a loved one who is influencing it. So people people do realize that loved ones can show up in that form or you know, with with animals
suddenly behaving in unusual ways. And of course we talked about dreams, uh the visitations that are so powerful that you wake up shaken and uh overwhelmed with the presence.
Of that of that loved one. Then there are there there are just.
The experiences what we've talked about what Judy has, the experiences of the loved one inside your body and just just feeling that their res they for a few moments, they take up residence. They they are physically merging in your body and people recognize that. So there are you know, there are other ways to encounter loved ones and to
know their presence besides channeling. But what channeling offers that these other methods don't, these other experiences don't, is actually learning what our loved one's experience is in the other side and and also gaining wisdom from them. Channeling is the only way to actually do that.
Yeah, it's amazing. Number Three here is something that we talked a little bit about, which is discovering one's life purpose, which is huge for a lot of people who are just kind of wrong aimiously and not knowing what the hell is going on. If and I'd like to ask you about that. Has Jordan presented your life purpose and perhaps those around you who are important.
He's been very clear about my life purpose. Judy's life purpose really his life what he came here to do in this particular life. And we all show up on this planet with a life purpose, which is essentially our lesson plan what we came here to learn and in some cases to do. And yeah, so life, you know, life for poses and there are ways to access it.
I mean, you can use channeling to access because our loved one probably knows what our life purpose is, particularly if the loved one is somebody who's been very close to us in life, you know, because we probably incarnated and chose to incarnate together in this particular life, in this particular time and place and family, and and that choice was made knowing that each of us had a purpose or a lesson that we were seeking to learn in this life.
You know.
One of the things that Jordan has talked a lot about is soul groups. Soul groups are like little families and of you know, usually somewhere between eight and twenty souls, and they incarnate together oftentimes, and they incarnate into the same.
You know, of.
Geological geographical area. Often it's certainly the same era, the same time period, and often then end up interacting with each other in special ways, so that it's like a little repertory theater that over many, many many centuries and many lifetimes keeps showing up in a new play and
in new relationships. And so in some cases, are you know, somebody in our soul group was our mother, and another life they're a child, and another life there an antagonist of some kind, and another life there some imprecious teacher that helped influence I mean, and so our you know, our our soul group can we can have many, many different relationships with that over many lives in the past life. Jordan was my wife, for example, in one past life, which was very kind of hard to.
Get used to that idea.
Yeah, that's interesting. Uh. Number four out of these five points is, and I'd like you to speak to this. We can find greater acceptance for the pain in life? Is that just the life that we are living. And some of us may be having a harder time than others and we're just kind of lost or how do.
You well, part of the problem is that we come here in many case cases we don't know what the purpose of life is. And we think, and a lot of people think the purpose of life is to have pleasure and avoid pain, right, to have a kind of happiness of of uh in you know, where there's more enjoyment than not and and and that's that's what we're seeking in life now. The fact is that most people don't have a life where there's more enjoyment than not.
And you know, most of our lives involve quite a bit of struggle.
Uh.
And and and so.
If if it was true that the purpose of life is to have as much enjoyment as possible and avoid as much pain as possible, we'd be in a lot of trouble because that just doesn't seem to be true for most of us. And so we tend to think of pain as a problem like that, this is something, you know, we should be avoiding, and if we have pain, that something is wrong, We've screwed up, we've made a mistake.
And so learning that the purpose of life is about evolving and growing and learning as the soul, that's why we come here, and that pain is one of the main things that helps us grow. Every time we have pain, it gives us a set of choices. How you know, what can I what can I do in the face of that pain to still be a loving human being? And so all of those choices are how we grow. And the opportunities for choices and learning and growth often come from speriences of pain. So pain isn't a problem.
It's not something that we failed when we feel pain. It's an opportunity uh to make choices that help us grow. Woll So I mean I it's a whole different Jordan is advocating a whole different relationship to pain, and uh, and and that and that. Again, our the purpose of life is to grow and evolve and learn. So everything that teaches us something is good.
Yeah, we just experienced it in different ways, I think is what you're suggesting. Uh. The final point of these five points of conversation with the Dad is conversations allow us to give support to the ones on the other side. And I was surprised to read that are you suggesting that Jordan and others who have passed over have their own grief that they're working with, that there they need to hear from the living that they're loved and missed and so forth and so on.
This is really an interesting question. First of all, just to be clear, our souls exist both in the afterlife or in the spirit world, and in an incarnated form here on earth at the same time. So part of our soul energy always stays in the spirit world, in our soul group and with the people that we love. So I'm so some of my soul energy right now is in the spirit world and is with Jordan, some of his spirit, some of his energy, and this is in the spirit world and is in a new life.
He is incarnated into a new life. So our soul energy is serve of divided So at any given time we are all part of us in the spirit world, and our relationships there are all very active interesting. But but some of our energy is divided up, and when we incarnate, it enters into a physical body. So the souls in spirit receive love. Uh and ore and there there, there's their spirit is.
It's not healed, they don't need healing.
But there but there, but there's but their spirit receives and takes in love. And it can take in love from from souls who are in spirit, It can take in love from all, and it can take in love from us who are still on earth and and love them and miss them. And and so when we send them love, they receive it mm hmm. It enhances their experience because they by receiving love from us, their experience of love expands. And and so it so it is something we can give very actively to souls on the
other side. So so when we think of them with love, they receive that telepathically and and and that love expands inside of that soul and and so and and these souls carry a lot of love inside of them, but every time we send love, there's more and they can feel it. And and they feel that active love that exists between us and that soul and spirit. Uh and it and it's it's it's a living thing, and it warms them. Ah and and so yes, there's something we
can give souls and spirit. Yes, they they live in a good, wonderful environment.
They're they're surrounded by love.
Uh.
They're learning there as well as we are learning here. But when we send love, it warms them.
That's fantastic. As we close, Matt, who did you write this book for. Did you write it for people who have had recent departed loved ones or did you write it for a different audience.
No, I wrote it for people who are who have lost someone uh and and don't and and and and and don't know if they can find them that soul again. They're they're you know, they're scared that they've made that
soul and be gone lost forever. Uh And and I wrote it for that person who who's grieving uh and struggling with you know, trying to make sense of death and uh and trying to help them to realize that that loved one is still fully alive in spirit and and the love between them is fully alive and and
and they can tap into it anytime they want. So the relationship is still there, The loved one is still there, is still available, is still able to connect and can still and they can send love back and forth to each other in real time. And I just that's the person I was hoping the book could help.
Yeah, fantastic. The book's called Seeking Your Loved One on the Other Side, Communications with the Invisible Universe. And my guest today has been doctor Matthew McKay. This book just came out.
You can get it on.
Amazon, matt. Once you get people of the other content social media. You have a YouTube channel, don't you.
Well they can I have some lectures there on YouTube. But they're seeking Jordan dot com if they want to read more of of Jordan's writing.
Seeking Jordan dot Com. Yeah, right, fantastic. Hey, a really a good book for the holidays. This is a real tough time for a lot of people, and you offer some really great suggestions and technique. Uh and I want to close real quickly. A couple of clients perhaps that you've heard back from after using and teaching them this uh, this technique, what they're uh, what their success rates been.
You know, I've taught channeling to hundreds of people, and most of the people, the vast, vast majority of people are able to channel with very little and straining, with basically the instruction which we've just described, they can channel.
Uh.
And of course some people really struggle with doubt, and that's okay, you know, there's but what I encourage people to do is keep channeling. Yeah, sometimes you're gonna have doubt, like I wonder if this is really my loved one and am I making this up? Is this in my mind? And you know that's very understandable, And but just keep doing it and write down everything you get and periodically read back over the over the communications you've.
Had your loved ones.
And I think what you're going to find is a richness of love and wisdom that you're going to value and can make a difference in your life. So in spite of the in spite of the doubt that always you know can be there. Uh, I want to encourage you to just keep doing it, try and do it once a week and and and keep that relationship alive through channeling.
M fantastic man. Thanks. I really appreciate you having this discussion with you and this information.
Appreciate it very much, Cliff, thank you for having me.
I had to say that after reading most of the book, the techniques are very simple. They seem simple, but if you're always questioning thoughts and is this your higher self is communicating with you or others? This takes a little bit of work, but he's made it quite simple, and you can actually go to his YouTube channel and see similar techniques that he's using. So what a great way to connect with the loved one or a friend that
you deeply miss and really need to connect with. This is a great way to start a form of communication. I hope you felt that it was not too beyond, too far beyond your reach, or your felt like, oh that I can never do something like that. This is a very private and intimate form of communication. You don't do it in from others. You go and you're in your room, or you're in a quiet place by yourself, by your self, and you do this work with a notepad and a kind of a meditative state. You can
get this book on Amazon. It came out a couple of months ago. Seeking your loved one on the other side. I think it's really a great step forward in therapy, but also communication, communicating with the dead. Other cultures are very much into this. The Latin culture has Day of the Dead. They communicate and they commune with their dearly departed. They celebrate life and death. So I hope you will consider working with this technique. Hey, I want to remind
you this is a great season for gift giving. We have a wonderful gift that you can consider. It is our Grant Egyptian Tour seventh annual coming up April twenty eight through May tenth. This is a fabulous tour. You can see the entire itinerary by going to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tour Forward slash Tours, and this tour is multi level. We include private visits to the Pyramids, to the other sites ancient sites, and a few days
we cruise on the Nile in luxury. This is a five star tour and it's all inclusive, your food, your drink, your passes, your flights within Egypt. It is exceptional half off the typical price of a similar tour for twelve days in Egypt. For all the details go to earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tours. Don't wait till the end of the year to register. Get all your details.
If you have any questions, whats whatsoever, send me. Send it to Earth Ancients to the number four the letter you at gmail dot com and I'll get back to you. Give yourself the best gift possible. Join me in Egypt this spring the seventh annual Grand Egyptian Tour. All right, that's it for this show. I want to thank my guest today, doctor Matthew McKay, coming to us from Berkeley, California. As always, the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster, and Feya Parfar You guys rock. Also, I want to thank
you all. We have won another award for one of the best podcasts in the United States. We won the best History in Archaeology Podcast. I want to thank POT Awards for that honor. All right, thank you, take care of me, will and we'll talk to you next time.