Welcome to Destiny.
Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning.
MM. Is that how you sound at night? Does your girlfriend, your wife, your partner complain that you snore? Do you have sleep abnea where you're spending part of the evening when not able to breathe? Do you have a C pop machine? Do you wear an appliance to stem off sleep abnea? This is Cliff, your host of Destiny, and this week we are discussing sleep apnea, this chronic problem that is affecting, or should I say afflicting, tens of
millions of Americans. I myself have been diagnosed with moderate sleep apnea. And when you are dealing with the medical establishment, most notably allopathy, they want you to get hooked up to a seapap machine. They want you to to invest a probably close to one thousand dollars for one of those machines. And I did it. I was afraid. I was shaken when I had my heart attack in twenty twenty two, and I did everything they said to me until I figured out it's a lot of scare tactics.
Their remedies don't work, and there are holistic methods to solving. In fact, in many cases eliminating sleep apnea. Now you're gonna hear from our guest today who is a medical doctor, that the typical remedies or solutions from an alpathic point of view are pretty severe. And when I say severe, when you're having air forced into your lungs, there's a lot of problems that can arise from that. In fact, there's a recent settlement from a company that makes these
seapap machines, these sleep apnea machines. They were sued for over a billion dollars because people were getting up a respiratory disease, they were having fungus growths because of the forced air, and in many extreme cases, people were getting cancer because this impure, pready impure air was forcing into their lungs and people are getting lung cancer. In fact, this is still going on today, and I have stopped using the spat machine. I use breathing techniques that you
hear about today. I've uped my minerals and nutrients, which is a huge issue when you have sleep deprivation, which is lack of sleep, and if you're like me and most people, if you don't get a good quality sleep every night, and for me, it's between six and seven hours. It is a strain on the body. In fact, it's so serious that if you're not paying attention to your sleep,
you can take years off your life. In other words, you can age much quicker, you're more sceptible, you're more susceptible to disease, to aches and pains, and it ages you. In fact, we're going to learn today that if you don't get regular sleep, it can take not a few years, but close to a decade. You can die much earlier. I think the bigger problem is that you're opened up to a lot of different disease processes that are lurking, and you know, so you need to get a good
night's sleep. But I have been looking for someone to speak on sleep apnea when I started when I was diagnosed back in twenty twenty two. And if you're like me, you belong to a health medical establishment. I'm here in northern California, so that's Kaiser Permanente, and they have sleep studies.
And when your doctor is suspicious of your health and you're not sleeping well and perhaps you have a medical condition, they will assign you a sleep specialist who will give you a testing some equipment that you take home overnight. In my case, is a device they put over your finger and they strap somebody to your chest to band your chest, and they test your breathing capacity, your heart rate, how much you fidget, and so forth, and they can tell if you have sleep apnea. And so that's how
they determine that I had moderate sleep apnea. That's a while ago. I need to get tested again. But this is the medical science. This is what lifestyle of Americans has developed. We need a quick fix. We don't want to work on our health. We want to get a pill. We want to get a machine that helps us breathe, that helps us journey, that helps us defecate. And it's not something you really want to do if you look at it closely. And this is what the beauty of
today's guest is. If you look at the sleep apnea closely, it's a direct result of modern living. Processed food, no nutrients in the diet, no sunlight, circadian rhythms, all screwed up alcohol or drugs, damaging your ability to go to sleep naturally. I sleep like a log. I go to bed at midnight every night. I get about seven to seven thirty. I sleep like a log, you know, And well the other thing is people don't get any exercise,
and that's huge, It's really, really, really big. So my guest today is doctor Dylan Petkiss, and I funny enough I found him on TikTok and he was doing a series of programs promoting his natural therapy and his book is called Sleep Apnea Solutions, and that's the theme of the program today is holistically adjusting our lifestyle so that we can remove or eliminate use or eliminate sleep apnea. So I think you're going to enjoy the program today. I know I did. I really enjoyed it, so away we go.
I don't imagine it's a first showing all things where your doublin's up, put your mother's side, those lies and pangles with a little bit of.
Really excited about today's guest. I am one who suffers from sleep apnea, and we're gonna learn all about sleep apnea. And I discovered that there's over eighteen men and about seven main women here in the United States to suffer similar issues. And uh, you know, I've been doing the seepap machine. I've done all kinds of weird remedies, but nothing has really helped, and so I been looking for
somebody to speak on it. And of course here at Destiny we're all about holistic treatment because uh, you know, we're constantly dealing with the corporate medical model of allopathy. And my guest today is doctor Dylan Petkiss and he has I found Dylan on Whould you Believe the Internet TikTok, and you know he is, you know, trained as a doctor, and so he's dealing with this from a very interesting perspective and we're gonna learn learn all about it. His
book is called Sleep Apnea Solution Less. I think it's called less Snoring, less cpap just Sleep, which is a fantastic title. And so we're gonna get the whole rundown today from from Dylan. So Hey, Dylan, welcome to Destiny. Great to have you on the program.
Thanks for having me.
All right, obviously you wrote the book because you are also a sleep apnea victim. Talk a little bit about your journey from start to finish in terms of wanting to find a solution.
Gotcha from the start, like when my parents met or I mean how much time we got yeah, so yeah, so back looking at the date thirteen or fourteen years. It's been a while, all right. I was starting to have I'm starting to drag, and I was like, am I twenties at that time, so starting to drag just like tired, et cetera. I was like, oh, maybe just stressed, maybe just whatever. I just kept pushing through like a
lot of people do. And I know I'll kind of shove men under the bus here that sometimes we kind of wait on things or just kind of keep going. So I was doing that, and then you just got to a point where it's just like geez. I was maybe waking up every sixty ninety minutes, heart beating a little fast, always exhausted in the morning, like two, three, four cups of coffee. Eventually graduated to caffeine pills because
I figured that'd be more efficient. God forbid, I actually do something, but the problem just you know, take a thousand milligrams caffeine, which I don't recommend anyone do in case anyone only meant to listen to the first two minutes. And then I went to the doctor, like God, primary care, We're just like, I don't know, see the sleep specialist,
sleep specialists. You might have sleep apneah, do the sleep study, get the all the schmuts over your head and all over the place, and they kind of wrap you like a mummy you see on the History Channel. And then the nurses at Tech kind of just says sleep normal. And then I imagine they laugh in their own head when they leave you in the room and then came
back with moderate sleep apnea. And then the next time is in the doctor's office because for some reason, you need to wait eight weeks for a physician to tell you have twenty five point seven on a piece of paper.
Yeah.
I don't get it either, but oh yeah, you can do a CEPAP. And I was like, okay, maybe, and then uh tried that out a couple times and I was definitely the camp of like, uh, screw this. This doesn't seem very attractive or effective, and they're kind of, well, just stick with it. I'm this feels like this is making things worse, and I just, you know, win in my own journey. Well like took a step back, like, okay,
like why why is this happening? Because the classic phenotype right of sleep APNA is not like mid twenty something that is in okay shape, et cetera. It's usually like you know, man started between fifteen and seventy, maybe a little bit overweight. That was not me. So I had to kind of understand like, okay, why is this going on?
And that led me to really discover, hey, this is a lot more around the breathing part than it is around just like an obstruction, which is that should feel less profound than it is because I'm basically saying a sleep breathing disorder, would you probably talk about breathing? Yeah, And that's when I start to learn, like, what what is what is the main issue with our breathing at night?
Because when we think about sleep APNA, everyone's mind is like okay, like I stop breathing or I'm snoring, but we never really understand what's going on. We are understanding is typically just led by a doctor who they mean well just to like, yeah, you just airway gets blocked off at night, right, you know, sun goes up, sun goes down. Can't do anything about that, Like it just comes to a point where we don't understand why that's happening.
And when I look back in the research, like some of the old, old research from well okay, I just said old old, and I'm going to say, nineteen fifties, So whoever's offended, don't be too offended. But that was like some of the original research on it, and what they found was when test participants, like if you made them breathe faster at night, it would cause their airway
to be obstructed. Right, So this is counterintuitive to what we are told in which is airways gets blocked off, you know, tongue flops back, et cetera, and then that's all you can do. It's a breathe event that then triggers a collapse in the tissue, which just on face value does make sense. You know, patients would sleep apnea. They may stop breathing at night anywhere from five to
you know, forty times per hour. Right, that does not and the grand majority of people that does not happen during the daytime at all.
Let me stop you real quickly, Dylan. So, as a medical researcher and a trained physician, obviously you understood that the commercial medical side of things were like, our solution is to see pap machine or you write about this in your book. We can do a surgical procedure, or we can do pretty much invasive programs, and we're not into the holism holistic approach because that's just not our style. So it sounds to me like you are like, I'm not following your lead. Guy. I'm going to look at
this from a historical position. And as you're saying, and you write about this in your book that in the fifties and seventies they began looking at this. Do we know if it goes back further than that? Is this an industrial complex? A modern society problem of not enough thought for and we'll talk about nutrition and exercise in a minute, but is this is just part of a sedentary lifestyle?
It partially is I think a lot of the I guess modernization of things and now how humans have begin to devolve is a huge, huge part of it. Yeah, for sure, because I mean like a lot of these things, like because I wasn't so contrariant until I was like in it, which I think is a very common pattern with like modern medicine. It's good to think on, but then you feel the opposite when you're in it, like oh yeah, that makes sense on paper, and then you're
like I don't know about that same thing there. So that can be one contributing factor for sure. Because yes, nutrition, Yes, different nutrients you have will come together because the big link between those factors, right, your environment and your lifestyle, how sanitary you are with breathing, The biggest one is going to be through your mitochondria. All right, that's what produces energy. And if anyone's like powerhouse with a cell,
awesome is that that's what produces CO two. So just like your car produces exhaust and burning energy, your mindochondra produced CO two by also burning energy in the form of fuel, not diesel or premium, although I think some people are trying to eat that nowadays. But beyond that, CO two will then tell your brain, hey, this is how we should breathe. So when CO two is high or metabolic activity is high, it makes sense we should breathe more. When it's low, we don't need to breathe
as much. Now, one of the biggest things we'll seep APNA is this thing called respiratory loop gain. Very catchy, sound very cool. If you say no, doctor will don't know where they we're talking. I mean polemonologists would. If you're seeing a pollmonologist, you're probably in the ICU or something, and that's your bodies, your brains response to CO two levels, and think of it like a breathing thermostat, where if there's a certain amount of CO two, there's a certain
response for you to breathe a certain way. When someone has sleep apnea, it's the very over sensitive thermostat the moment the temperature goes like up AC kicks on like instantly, even when it's not needed. So this happens because a lot of times when like you know, you have the faster breathing pattern and then you have an obstruction, and then immediately after the obstruction, you'll start to breathe fast again and start to sort of wire this pathway of
being very overresponsive to things. So then if we layer in these lifestyle things, I'm coming back around to the original point this was a detour. Is that like say, if you're eating a lot of carbohydrates or something like that, like we live in the carbo loca here, that is going to impact that sounds like a bad restaurant somewhere, but that's going to impact how much CO two is going to be produced, and then that's going to impact
your breathing thermostat. Let's say you're sitting around all the time, right you're super sanitary. That's very similar if you have a car that you like, never drive, and then like three years later you're like, let me take the the Chevy and pale out for a spin, because why not. The engine is going to kick out more speak, so it's going to alter the I think I first a little bit there, but the engine's gonna you know, spew out some credit here, and that's going to alter how
much Cotwo is gonna be made. Then your breathing thermostack can't properly adjust to it, bad breathing pattern, more appy episodes. That's why a lot of times when you see these lifestyle interventions, which is funny because a lot of time in social media maybe you've seen it, I make this incredibly controversial position of maybe lifestyle factors effect you're breathing in sleep, which I know is you know, it's up there with Gallo saying, you know, I think the Earth
goes around the sun. Maybe that's the other way. I know, very you know, difficult positions to defend across a modern human thought point being, if I say, like lifestyle impact sleep APNA, people will be like, oh, but like I thought it was an obstruction there's something in way this
and that. But those sating people won't think twice if I say, well, you know, if you drink alcohol for a bed, or if you eat a really heavy meal a couple hours for a bed, or one very very common event like people when they stay up a little bit later, they go to bed two hours later. Oh, I had way more snoring. Yeah, we've made no changes to your anatomy. Yeah, and yet you know we've changed something where someone's in a different environment. There's you know,
they're breathing and crap, they're stressed out more. All that's going to impact how you breathe. And that's how many Appney episodes you have at night.
So before we get into two more specifics, because what I want to do is I want to get into the AMA's look at it, the industry of seapap and so forth. But before we do any of that, what is the basis What is the definition of sleep appney? Obviously it's obstructed breathing, but it's it's it's the throat closing down on the windpipe basically.
Right, Yeah, so, uh so, an apnea episode is a stop itchin airflow that also happens at the same time you have auction levels drop a certain amount for a certain amount of time.
M hm.
That's all an APNA episode is. Sleep apnea is then when that happens anywhere, well, it has happened at least five or more times per hour over the course of the night. So if you sleep eight hours, five time is eight. If anyone has a mathematical PhD, you can figure that one out about forty events per night. That's all it takes, right to then have a sleep apnea a diagnosis, and then you know it breaks down to different categories. But that's where it starts.
Yeah, I had a heart episode in twenty twenty two. When I went into the doctor, uh, they put a stint in one carnary artery. But the other thing he said, have you been tested for sleep apnea? And this is the training, And of course I did get tested. I came back, it came back with moderate sleep apnea. They immediately recommended the SEAPAP machine, which stands for a continuous positive airway pressure, and in my case, my insurance covered it. But it was still a thousand dollars machine, which is
not cheap. And I did it twice and I couldn't stand it.
Yeah, that's very typical.
I mean, yeah, talk about that because those machines are that's the standard recommendation, is these damn machines. Yeah.
Yeah. So the research has shown if you're a doctor Joe, when you're a sleep a specialist, you have one hundred patients and you give them all SEPAP within one year, within twelve months, which may range from day two to day hundred and like three hundred and sixty five, about forty percent of them will still be on it. So you lose a lot of people right away, and then of those forty percent, about half of them will say
they experience benefit from it at all. So it's one of those things where there will be people who they love it, and that's great, they name it. I'm not saying,
you know, no one should stop their receipt PAP. They love and their responding well to it awesome, But at the same time, we shouldn't sacrifice the silent perhaps even gas lit majority for the minority experience and also expert opinion, right, because one of those things where you know, mostly medicine doctors are probably not a SEAPAP and it makes times
for me like, yeah, I use this thing. But if like you know, any sort of treatments like oh, yeah, so you're gonna put this on your face and hope you're not clostrochhrobic, and if it stays on, yeah, and if it doesn't come off from the middle of the night, and also if it doesn't like dry your face out, and if you don't react to it, and if you aren't using the Phillips ones that gives you like lung cancer. You know, if all that happens, might be okay.
Yeah, but it's a it's a nefarious industry. In your book, you talk about Phillips. The vision sued for one point one billion dollars recently because of people having all kinds of health issues that use this seepap machine. And but then again, if we look at it from historical point of view, in the fifties up to the seventies, the solution was a tracheometry, you know.
Which is it is a step up. You give give them credit, but it's all it's also it's so invasive. It's like, this is the model of allopathy. Is they forget about the holistic aspect and they get into the commercial machine. They spend billions on making these machines that you're telling us that only forty percent of people use them after they begin. And then there's all all kinds of crazy medical procedures. There's one that you write about
that I've been seeing. It's called inspire therapy, where they shock the system into breathing again. And this is something that looks really cool because they don't they show it on TV. They don't show the surgical procedure, they don't show the tune ups and the adjustments to this procedure.
They have great advertising, it's good stuff.
It's horrible, horribly invasive. So this is what we're facebook, and this is why you're on the program, Dylan, is the fact that they don't go to the to the source, which is a holistic approach and look at nutrition, look
at exercise, look at lifestyle as a causation. So I'm kind of speaking over you a little bit, but i just want our listeners to get a sense of why it's important to go to the source, to go back to the beginning and see where you are nutritionally, where you are stress wise, where you are on a more naturalistic or holistic balance scale as a starting point. When you are it's determined that you are a candidate for
sleep apnea. So can we go back a little bit and let's talk about the CPAP machine and the problems associated with it, most notably the the the problems with the body.
Yeah, definitely the biggest problem. You can't you can't get a custom color on the outside and a lot of people on it. So that's not a problem. But uh, these just they just don't have personalized medicine like they show nowadays. Maybe want a green one, but with let's just go through the whole thing. So yeah, so let's starry with the Phillips things. So the CPI has like a lot of parts, like there's filters and all these things, and you know they're going to be using a lot
of polymers to create that. I know a lot of people are are more familiar with microplastics. What I'm about to discuss is not microplastics per se, but just the idea of if I if I have like if this is a plastic bottle, this is a green bottle, and it's not a highnech can it's it's mountain values to bring everyone. But if you are interacting with this plastic thing all the time, you're gonna get some of that plastic in you. I think I hope people are starting to understand that.
Now.
Now let's say you have continuous air force from the pressure from the sea path and then you have these actual like foam particles now coming out of it in some of these defective machines. This is what the lawsuit was about. And then all these people, you know, get lung cancer and all these things that go downhill. That's what's known And if anyone's a historian of pharmaceutical tobacco,
those are kind of the main two. The kind of the scheme is, let's make a bunch of money, get ahead, and these lossits will happen, and we'll we'll they'll, you know, it'll it'll. It'll pan out in terms of revenue and then revenue loss from the lawsuits. But with other things around seedpaps to consider. One, I do think microplastics are going to be an issue with those over time. It
just kind of makes sense to me. Number two is also mold exposure because a lot of people, whether they're not taught or told, they use this thing or stored improperly, they don't change out the filter that will start to become a hotbed of all sorts of interesting things that you're then breathing in you know, two date hours airway inflammation, and it's like more upper airway like in your mouth like setup. Because again, if you're just constantly having air there,
that's going to create friction. And then what else can we go through this? Let's even go electromygnetic because a lot of these things has a heating coil. It's gonna put electric field on your face. A lot of these are hooked up to Wi Fi for some on godly reason. I'm not sure why you want that. That's going to
rate you. It's just this whole laundruls of things. Again, you know there's someone who might experience a lit benefit from it, but there's when something is not amazing, we need to ask ourselves like why this is and what the risk and benefits are. And I'm like, why there's other things that are better? Because kind of to your point of where a very common path is good doctor sepap, All right, you're in the algorithm, You're you're moving on to square. Now you get a seapap that didn't work.
Have we tried have we tried lecturing the patient? Okay, Okay, let's do that, and then maybe let's try different masks. Let's may we try bypap, let's try some surgeries out and then well, I mean not try it per se, but people might get like their uvula taken out, it's a little thing hanging down in the back. Maybe they
get some rotoscoping down their their nose. Maybe you mentioned the Inspire, which is thinking about like a pacemaker for your tongue in a way that doesn't make it sound any more pleasant, but you know it's a device that shocks your tongue such that it stays more tone and out of your airway. That's like the simplest explanation of it.
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we'll reach ot with my guestterday, doctor Dylan Pitkiss, discussing his new book Sleep Apnea Solutions. Will be right back. My guess today is doctor Dylan Petkiss. He has written a book called The Sleep Apnea Solutions, and we're learning today just how you can avoid using a cpath machine or dangerous surgery. Does
it actually work though this Inspire method? Because I can't find any documentation I haven't really looked that deep though, But they're saying it's the new miracle procedure. But it's a surgical procedure. And what you write about is that just because they do it once, it doesn't mean it's gonna work. They have to kind of tune it, tune it up or or adjust it.
Yeah, so modern medicine is a cure with the story of like ten ifs behind it right, like we're gonna put this in, and if it's in the right position, if the wire went through your neck properly, and if you're not reacting to the surgical sites, and if you know it settles correctly, and if we find the right cause, like it's not just on off, it's more like think of like a volume remote. You gotta have different settings
of different electrical current going through it. If we find the right level for you and if you're by because sometimes people like like they get to an eight out of ten super arbitrary scale, it's not what it is. They get to an eight out of ten on the shock scale, then like maybe it stops working and like maybe they go up, maybe they have to go down for a little bit and then back, Like there's this
whole adjustment period. And then if again it's it's staying fine, et cetera, and heaven forbid if you ever need an MRI or something. Okay, like there's a lot. Now again, there's some people who it works for and rave about it. But again it just has so many like if we compare it to like some of the things I mentioned, just the opposite, like eat earlier at dinner, raise the head of your bed. Uh, you know, do some breathing exercises.
You know, I haven't gotten any email yet in many, many years of like, oh man, you know I did these breathe exercises and like I can't see anymore.
I'm blind.
Well, I guess that person wouldn't be emailing me. They you know, they would struggle to find the keyboard. So maybe I should have a better example.
But no, your you're trained is an allopath, and so I can hear it in your voice that you're kind of disgusted at your your brethren, uh, you know, and the medical experimentation that is FDA approved. I don't know how Inspire therapy can be improved, but obviously they pushed it through and paid tens of billions, tens of millions of dollars in the to some of.
The old technology. It's an old technology, like FDA approval for it's it's uh so if you want to think like the FDA, I would first encourage you to just stop thinking. That's like step one. Step two. Is one of the biggest things that allows them to be thing forward is if it is similar to something that has existed in the past. So INSPIRE is just a type of a hypoglossal nerve stimulator. So there's been different iterations of this over like decades. Oh really, so this is yeah.
So that's why like approving slight variations of it or large variations, uh, it is pretty easy. Whereas like if I wanted to make a device, I don't know, if I wanted to make a device out of this bottle that helped you breathe better, and all you had to do was like blowing it for five minutes. Yeah, okay, a couple million maybe two to four years later.
Yeah, I mean, it's it's scary what these doctors are doing to people. I as I mentioned, I didn't find any use for a CEPAP machine. But before we get into the solutions that you offer in your book, which are very holistic. Talk about mouthguards, because I've tried using the mouthguard. One of the one of the mouth guards I use sucks your tongue out to the front of your mouth, and I was miserable because I kept freaking out. I put it in and I wake up in an
hour hour later thinking what's going on? But do those actually work?
Those whether it a tongue suction device or like through mouthguard, tongue suction. Okay, yah, So it can work because there's all these things, right, there's tongue suction, there's like a straw you talk on, there's all sorts of different things. If that is like you're one in primary issue and
again it's the only issue. Yeah, it can work. Now A big if to it, though, because when like you're pulling your tongue forward, not the most comfortable thing, and we'll sleep apnea if I do like a little side profile here. One of the big problems is the towent that the tongue is down and back here, right, and it's used to sitting here a lot, so if you try to pull forward, it can be a very uncomfortable stretch and some people, I mean, it just doesn't really
jive with them. But again, if if you're able, and if that's like the strict only problem, then yeah. But like like on the on the converse, let's say the tongue is not the problem. It's really like the positioning of your jaw, and then you still have the bad breathing pattern. Then it's it's not going to be your sort of go to thing.
Interesting. Before we jump into your solutions, I want you to address some of the what you call hidden nutritional demands of sleep and also hormones for sleep recovery. So one of the things about sleep apnea that you discussed and sleep in general is that when you don't get a good sleep, it deprives the body of nutrients. Talk about that. I didn't know that.
Yeah, yeah, So just like when if car analogy, I mean, like if you yeah, let's go the car analogy. I'm not a car guy though, so God help us all with this one. So you have like an issue you with your your brake pad, right, so you're gonna now rely on your emergency break Okay, this is shaping up to be a good one when you do that all the time. Like if you use your emergency breake to stop all the time. Your car is gonna wear and
tear differently, right, especially around the emergency break. And then one day you're gon be have no breaks available to you with our body. If you're not sitting well or you don't sleep all that night, the next day, your body is going to be in a different metabolic state. So here's you know, say you have good sleep metabolism
and you have bad sleep metabolism. Okay, bad sleep metabolism needs to act a different way to make up for like your brain being sluggish, yourselves being tired, et cetera, and good state metabolism doesn't need to do that. So when you're constantly in bad state metabolism, your body is hoping and also strategize and thinking, this is just a short term problem. Let's just get through today, you know,
kind of drive around with the emergency break. The problem becomes when you do that all the time in that bad state metabolism, bad sleep, and there's going to be certain nutrients that will be selectively depleted. So one such is that when you're in bad sleep metabolism, you will burn sugar preferentially to fat. Right as a result, you will use more of those enzymes one of the most prominent ones is thiamine or inviting B one and then you'll use that up and that's not good for a
lot of reasons. Number One, that's also a vitamin that is essential for a certain part of your brain called the mammillary bodies. We're not producing milk care that is connected to your breathing centers. So for low thiamine, which is a prevalent nutrient in an air of your brain that controls breathing, gonna make things worse. So that's like probably one of the top ones. There's a whole lot of them. So another one being magnesium, because again when
you're carbohydrometabolism, you will also deplete magnesium. Another one being copper, is a big one because of just all the different properties and and poor you go much deeper on that. Not people shouldn't like go put pennies in their socks because of this. But the or take a bunch of it, be careful is that when we think about sleep, there's different things like the production of melatonin, different enzymes like superoxide, dismutaste,
all these different things. They rely on copper. And again, if we're sleeping poorly, we're inefficient, that's gonna be overused, et cetera. And also copper is used very often as an antioxidant inside of your cells. You're not sleeping well, you're having damage to night, You're gonna have more inflammation and then that's going to cause a lot of issues and then use up that nutrient there. Also, like certain fatty acids will be depleted, right, whether it's like coaline,
fossilile searing. I mean, these are lippets, I guess, but those will be things that just start to go downhill. And this is also why let's say someone uses a seatpad, appatungue section whatever. Just breathing, Okay, it is a necessary part of good sleep, but it is not sufficient. Right, Like for if you want to make smores, wood is necessary, but you are not going to make OUI guy smores just if you have a pile of pine in the background and in the in the backyard, you eat all
the other ingredients. So that's why when people like they're breathing better or whatever, or they're using one of these treatments and feel better, but they're still like there's something missing. And that's because they were depleted of these nutrients that are not just going to magically come back because you're breathing better.
I think one of the problems with modern society is people don't have a sense of their bodies and they'll go to a physician and hoping the physician will be able to figure out what they're what's going on, and the solution, the bag of solutions for allopathic medicine is unfortunately very small. It's it's pharmaceutical drugs, it's surgical procedures, and of course if you if you have a cancer of some kind, they can address it with radiation, which
isn't a solution at all. And I think what you're offering is for people to begin coming back home and going what's your body talking to you about? How are you feeling, how are you functioning? And this is where these remedies are coming through. I think one of the last things I want to mention before we get into your solutions is the fact that ce paps the serious thing. And I think you write that you can it depletes
up to ten or more years of your life. You lose, you know, years by dealing with this from a non holistic point of view, talk just briefly about.
Yeah safe, Yeah, it's going to reduce life expectancy by about eight to ten years.
Yeah, and.
Quality of like, so there's there's lifespan and health spent. Right, lifespan how long are you alive? Right? Modern medicine is kind of helping out with that. But then if your last like twenty years or a nursing home, do you really care if you added twenty years to your life? Right? So health span is how healthy are you in those years? Sleep apnion will take about like twenty years off of the health span. So that means is basically, if you're sixty,
you're gonna feel like you're eighty. Yeah, And obviously that's not what we want. And this happens because well, mortality wise, well zooming out. Sleep apnie is a double edged sword in that your body is damaging itself at night and then also you have no ability to repair at nights. It would be you know, if we had one. Okay, you have both, and that's how thinks.
Which is what you're saying is when you're sleeping, the body is repairing itself.
Yes, well should be, but if you're gasping for air every twenty seconds, it will not be right. Yeah, Okay, so then all the systems will start to fall apart. That's why I like, pretty much every single major disease goes up by like two threefold in sleep, apnea, whether it's strokes, heart attacks, those are the big ones. You know, Diabetes goes up, cancer goes up. I mean, I know, car accidents are not a disease, but it's still at
the same endpoint. Those skyrocket just you know, really everything just groes dementia way up. Those are all the major things from that.
Okay. In chapter four you get into breathing, talk about the sleep method. This is one of your babies here, one of.
Your great acronym, great great acronym here. So sleep stands for slow breathing. Is the the S there. And then I'm really going to forget my own acronym. I always wondered how artists forget their own lyrics, and now I'm at this juncture here. So it's lower stress, established go arcade rhythm, and then environment is the fourth letter, and then P is prioritize nutrition. All right, So right with nutrition?
Right?
Yes, so got quized in my own book. I think I passed. I haven't studied beyond chapter four, so don't but so when looking at that, I know it's five letters. The first one is the most important, slow breathing, okay, and then the other things are like if you lump them all again, they're equally important. Now that being said, some people may have a lot of room for improvement in one like environmental you have like a moldy pillow. Okay, I don't care if you're doing all the fun breathing
exercise during the day. If you're breathing like mold for eight hours, might be a problem. So the first one slow breathing. So the basic premise of all of this is that firstly, BAPA is fast. Irregular breathing will trigger airway collapse. Even like and this holds true if you have like nasal polyps, big tongue, big uvula, you have a narrow trichea for some reason, those are just like
things that increase the risk of this being triggered. But also that like anatomical basis, this is why you functionally develop the fast breathing pattern in the first place, because instead of having a bigger airway, you have a smaller airway. And if you've ever for fun walked around your day breathing through a straw One, it's not fun. Two because it's a more you know, a smaller hole, you have to breathe faster just to keep up. So when you do that, when you have a narrow airway, you're going
to have a faster breathing pattern by the fault. And then it was kind of cascading and gain this sort of momentum. So if the problem is fast, the solution is slow, right, mind blowing, And a lot of these drills revolve around that. So slow breathing and its core is just like I mean, we can go over a few exercises this year, like let's say you inhale for like four and then exhale for eight. Okay, so usually having sort of like a ratio of a longer exhale to an inhale.
What's four and eight for an account or count? Yeah, the hold the breath you mean you.
Like inhale, take like four seconds inhale and then take eight seconds to exhale. Okay, nice and slow? Okay, all right, So let's say we do that. That would take us about well, I kind of want to be even. So let's say with you five and ten out, we now have a breathing rate of four breasts per minute, right, And if someone can't figure out how we got there, don't worry. There will be a book on that calculation
coming up next year. I'm joking it. It's just fifteen seconds to four, so we're not having the four breast permit. Usually just walk around the day someone's at like twelve or sixteen seconds. Sorry, twelve or sixteen breast permitt So the idea is, you do some drills and you bring your breathing rate to slow because you kind of live kind of fast if we're backing our thermostat analogy, but we bring ourselves to slow so that when you go by your day and recalibrate, you're kind of good. A
little bit slower, just a little bit right. You're not gonna like stop breathing, and in doing so, that starts to rewire how your brain and your body works together to calm down your breathing thermostat to then allow things to be slower at nights. That's the big thing. People will ask like, well, okay, cool, did ten minutes of box breathing or something else? But I don't control how I sleep at night. And the good news is you don't control how you sleep ever your brain.
So are you saying by doing this practice that the body naturally will conform to that rhythm. Yes, because it's more comfortable, or because the body understands that what you're trying to do is bring it back to homeostasis or something.
You're retraining it. So by breathing slower, the main there's different things, but the main thing is that your CO two levels are going up in your body. Okay, that's not a bad thing. It's a natural thing that happens when CO two goes up and you're not breathing in response to that, you're you're making your thermostat less sensitive, you know, all the way to go. We said, the big problem is you're breathing thermostats way too sensitive. It sees a little bit of CO two and then it
freaks out makes you breathe. But when you do these exercises, see CO two goes up, you're breathing thermostats like, oh there's CO two and cautiously you're preventing yourself from breathing. Well, you're breathing slower, so then your breathing thermostat is okay. With higher amounts of CO two okay, And then as a result, you will breathe slower like your Your breathing center does not freak out every single time it sees the molecule CO two. It feels more safety around that.
So then at night you follow that pattern or you're close to it.
Okay, cool. So how much is the sleep or excuse me, the breathing exercises a critical and the other aspects too. Is it all the less stress, the enhanced environment, nutrition and the breathing exercises. Is that what's needed for the change? Or is the breathing the most important?
I would say the breathing is going to bring the majority of the results. So if I had to make a vent diagram, or now we have a vent diagram a pie chart, I would say breathing is for of the results. Strengthening your airway muscles is probably maybe twenty or thirty percent, and then the lifestyle factors are the remaining amount.
We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, doctor Dylan Petkiss, discussing his new book, The Sleep Apnea Solution. Will be right back. My guest today is doctor Dylan Petgist. He has written a book called The Sleep Apnea Solution, and this is a holistic
look at treating and resolving sleep apnea. So this is the big problem when you write about this is that people typically eat too much processed food, they don't exercise enough, they are in environments that are completely stress stress related, and these all contribute to sleep apnea. So, and I know you have case state. In a minute, I'm going to ask you for a couple of Should I ask you for some case studies Betty, Tim John and so on.
That's probably not gonna be great. Maybe off the top of your head, you can provide a suggestion of somebody who came in with moderate to severe sleep apnea and went through the pet cat a system of breathing.
The super duper Peccas Powerful Breathing Regimen trademark pending no one's steal that name. I know it's really catchy. So like for like examples of lifestyle change, people have used you know what I mean?
Well, yeah, because obviously you've been doing this for at least what a couple of years, and your books filled with examples of people who actually follow the programs and got relief. M hm. So do you have anybody you can refer to who perhaps had moderative severe sleep apnea and got relief? Oh?
Yeah, yeah, So I wasn't sure if you were asking about, like someone who changed your diet. So yeah, we have a lot of people. So one guy, we'll call him T. I guess the just go with initials. So he was on the younger side. I think it was that modern severe. I don't remember his exact hi. And yes, the breathing was a big problem, but his environment was a super
duper big problem, like really bad mold. So not only working on the environmental side of being less exposed to it, but then also when you breathe in mold a long time, it will colonize your airway, which is exactly as pleasant as it sounds. So using certain things like there's a
it's like an herbal nasal spray. It's like getting punched in the face by a regano but the yeah, it's spicy, but that will start to break up some like the biofilms, et cetera, so that you can breathe through your nose, because nasal breathing is of paramount importance for sleep ap you know, and then also his body security rhythm was like really off, so he was like, you know, up super early, waking up all the time at night to being able to get his like rhythm into a good place,
like being sure is like he's getting out in the sun and like getting that sort of signal to his body and then making sure, you know, his sleep hygiene like dark curtains, all that was in place, so he could be in a much much better spot around that there.
So are you recommending this, Stilan? Are You're the one that's hearing from this individual and you're saying, okay, it's do an analysis of your sleep patterns and what you do to prepare for bed kind of thing.
So when someone's sharing like, hey, this is like my night routine, it doesn't oh, it doesn't take me long, which I guess is kind of the point of being like, oh, hey, like these are kind of the three points of optimization around like your behaviors from eight pm to eight am when you're trying to get to sleep here and then we just like optimize those camputus. So like, what are you doing like your night routine? Okay, you have a
I don't think anyone's had a night light. I don't think anyone would get that far to me, but like they're they get up in the middle of the night and then they decide to like read with like all the lights on their living room, Like what are we doing here? So like things like that, right, or maybe like the diet they're eating is just like super like
supercar heavy, like very low protein, et cetera. So their bodies like in that really bad you know, kind of in that bad metaialism state, right, Like they're just beating it more and more carbs and playing more and more than the nutrients. So we want to be able to have them focus on those components to restore the whole picture there.
Interesting you mentioned the circadian rhythm. Talk about that because that's an important aspect of wellness that I wasn't really familiar with. And it seems to me when man Ki was more earth centered, when we were out in the nature more and sleeping out under the stars and so forth and so on, we were much healthier. But talk about the circadian rhythm. What it is it?
Yeah, So circadian rhythm is when your body does what in the simplest essence and the extension of that is when your body does what when it's appropriate to do. So that's like the biggest thing. So like we live our lives and it's like I'm in here with like these lights, you know, and then like I don't know, it could be two am for all anyone knows. For me, maybe I live in I don't know where the heck could be two am, Alaska or something I don't know, Singapore.
And that's how people go about their life, right. It's like it's nine PM. You're sitting watching TV and you have this light that's hitting your retina and saying, I know it's nine pm, but it's actually based on this light, it's really one pp And then we wonder, well, why why am I not taller? Sort of thing. So it's just being able to make sure that you don't have things disrupting your bias circa rhythm. So like light at the wrong time is like one of the top culprits,
you know, having too much blue light at well. I mean really any sort of artificial light at night is going to then disrupt your rhythm. Or maybe you're just like in sheer darkness all day. Like if I sit in my office all day, it's not very bright it comparison outside. So lux is the intensity of brightness perceived by the the object. In an office, maybe it's around five hundred lucks. Maybe in like a bright annoying office,
it's like maybe seven hundred. You step outside on a cloudy day, it's going to be at least ten thousand lucks. Like you're outside Canada, let's say, in Canada, cloudy day, because people in Canada are like, oh, there's no sun here. I'm like, well, there's about, you know, a thousand times more light outside than inside, no matter how cloud it is. But as humans, if we just are inside offices all day,
we miss out on that huge signal. And then the darkness prevents us from a relative darkness prevents us from having a good, healthy circadian rhythm there. So it's kind of the two pieces the things that disrupt it, and then also not having a signal like being outside in the sun to tell your eye, to tell your brain like, hey, it's this time of the days, let's do these things.
Yeah. I thought it was interesting you spent time on being physically in natural sunlight. You actually say that people should go out in the morning and kind of bathe for a few minutes in the natural sunlight, which keeps this circadian rhythm flowing. You know, it's kind of a enhancement of some kind of natural enhancement that we perhaps were used to it in an earlier version of humanity. And then the other thing, and you just mentioned it
is reduced light at nighttime. I guess you're right. If we're in if we're bathed in artificial light, it's kind of a stimulant, isn't it.
Oh yeah, I mean that's exactly why it is made. So like a lot of these environmental things like office work, warehouse work, if you look at like, oh geez, I forget when this research is. But the basic premise is how can we maximize productivity in our workers without like killing them today It's kind of the whole basic premise.
So there's like certain temperatures of light like color temperature, not light, not hot to the touch, but like the how they're how blue they are if you will and there's a certain level, then if you do that, that will maximize productivity. And then if you layer in then this craze of overcraze of like environmental efficiency. You have
to have led lights or you're a bad person. Then that becomes another like non human alien sort of like source of light that is then going to not interact well with human biology.
Right, you have a chapter on the environment which I thought was interesting, and you mentioned a couple of things like electromagnetic frequency, which is like being around machines that are pumping out electricity. If your room's full of devices and something that that's not a good thing. Talk about that for a minute. Well why would that be a problem. Is it the electrical current?
Yeah, so let's do ams and one hundred and seconds flat. So electromatic field or also know as our electromenic radiations. Anytime you have an electron that accelerates, which I know we're all like in you know, steady state versus acceleration and increasing velocities, it will produce a wave of energy in the series of photons in differentquencies. Right, So, if I had a phone nearby, I don't know where it is, Like, I guess that's my next thing to do. Find my phone.
It will be around. Like there's different bandlists like nine hundred megaherds, eighteen hundred megaherds, even two point four gigaherts. Our microwave is about two point four gigahertz. That's what that is. So those electrons are making things that jiggle very fast across space and time. Our body relies on charged particles to move around in a very precise manner, like a you know, like figure skater, like Disney figure skater like Lilo and Stitch on ice times ten billion
is what's going on on the side of ourselves. And if you have an electromatic field or radiation, whether it's from the computer screen, whether it's from my microphone, whether it's from the CPU on my computer here going around like you know a billion times a second, that is going to make my electrically charged positive or negative particles jiggle. All right, that's going to make it very harder for
biology to do its job. Okay, it's not going to be a very good is it, Lilo or I don't forget what it is, but like you know, it's not going to be a great show practically how that pans out.
So I was talking about like a cepap. It can also be like like the number one culprit is like people have their cell phone and then they charge it on their nightstand and then you have this big electric field from the electricity coming from the wall socket to the phone, and then you have your phone on right it still having still transmitting signals, whether it's to a cell phone tower, whether it's to your WiFi, and it's doing that a whole lot, and your apps are updating
all the time, they're always pinging back and forth. That is going to then disrupt how your boy does things. That's why the research is showing, like you have these things, et cetera, it's going to lower, like, for instance, lower your production of melatonin, your sleep parma. Not exactly what we want if we want to have better sleep here.
And it's super easy to mitigate too, because like eighty to ninety percent of our exposure are things like I just mentioned of, where like instead of charging your cell phone in your nightstand, maybe charge it in your bathroom eleven point seven feet away, and that will like dramatically reduce the exposure because it follows like the inverse square law here where am I there? Basically the closer you are exponentially gets worse, but the further it gets away
exponentially you're less exposed. So you know, there's little things, there's big things too around reducing MS, but those are very often overlooked, especially when people have like they have a seapap and they wear an R ring on each hand, and then they have another tracker, and then they have LIKESA and Siri and you know whatever else, and then they're like they have their router underneath their bed or in their bedroom closet.
That's horrible. There's too much Wi Fi.
Yeah, you'd be surprised. I mean, honestly, I would say, like if someone likes sometimes like we go over the environment people, I mean, it's got to be like probably sixty or seventy percent of people who are sleeping really poorly, like have the router obnoxiously too close to where they sleep.
Wow. Amazing. Though, well, hey, it sounds to me like you're asking people who have sleep apnea to look at their not only their environment, but also their lifestyle. And this is a critical issue. Is what you're showing us here the modern society that we live with all these unseen frequencies and Wi Fi and and not getting out enough, not exercising, eating poorly. It's it's the modern society. Is this is a modern disease, if you want to call
it a disease. And you're asking people to look at their lifestyles and adjust, and when we do that, how effective are we getting to eliminating or reducing sleep apnea?
Dylan super super effective is the clinical term. So it all depends on are we doing the right things and already being consistent with them, Because there may be a thousand things to do. There will probably be like I don't know, twenty two things out of that that's going to really work for you versus Debbie versus Joey versus like so on and so forth here and somebody just has to go through it in layers because like when we focus on the breathing, that's going to give you
a large portion of the results. And for some people that may be like all they need, Like we like, we have our program and I forget what it is, but like I said, an automated email out like seven days in, like how you doing, And a lot of times people are like, oh my god, it's like a whole new world here and that's all they need it okay.
Uh.
Some people are like I'm a little bit better, like okay, cool, And there might be more layers of the onion to go through here, so to speak. So it's going to really very personal person. But that's kind of the the beauty of lifestyle, because let's say I'm I'm twisting your arm to do some twenty minutes the slow breathing exercises and maybe eat some more protein and all this stuff.
Maybe I annoy you, maybe I take up a little time out of your day, but it's a little bit better than having like I don't know, part of your throat irreversibly sliced out and be like, well that didn't work after three months of recover and you're like, well, maybe we'll do something else. Like it's it's a lot more modifiable. Yes, it's going to require more input, but like that's kind of the point to like have a
healthy life. It's not just like people shouldn't live like Warren Buffett, where you just like drink coke and eat McDonald's or whatever, and then when something goes wrong, you pay like one point five million dollars to your surgical team to take care of something. I mean, yeah, he's ninety four, but I think I forget. But that's just
not going to work for most people. It's the little things you do when you're consistent with and like you said, just like listening to like, Okay, this breathing worked well, this tongue exercise worked well, or they didn't. You need to change how you doing or you know, address other things. Like there's been people who I think I have some like you know videos on like fini me or something
like that, like they just add it. And again I'm not recommending this to an individual, but I'm just saying this person was like, yeah, it started taking it and my snoring went away. That won't happen for most people, Yeah, but it will first song because that was like one of the big missing things.
Amazing. The book's called Sleep Apnea Solutions. My guest today has been doctor Dylan pet Kiss. You can get the book on Amazon, but talk about your program, what people can do to sign up with, what the website is and more.
Yeah, you just go to a bathroom mirror say pecus, pecus, pecus, and then it'll just appear on your phone. It'll be cure no no. So yeah, we have a program appnearreset dot com. And really briefly what it is it you get like a dynamic breathing protocol because like you know, we just went over like one breathing exercise like the
five and ten out. But just like exercise, it's it should scale, all right, because if you want to lift three hundred pounds, you probably shouldn't start there, you know, but you need to start somewhere and build your way up. So what we have as part of our program is like a little system in which, like you start with these breathing exercises, next week you build to these et cetera, just to make sure like you're on a good progress path. And then we also want to make sure you support
it with that. So we have lots of ways because we have questions, So we have like group Q and a calls or group chat or cool community four yep, and then and then other sorts of things like are you know a call more holistic? The calls uh to focus on different aspects like okay, my breeding's better, how can I improve my deep sleep? Or uh, you know,
how can I optimize my nutrition? Just like these little you know there are like these twenty eight day stretches that you just complete week by week, just go through a checklist about being about a boom. That's the new Jersey and Me coming out, and that's how you do there. So that's some people can check out it appnea resets.
So you have you have your own online I'll just call it a clinic that might be another name for it, where your people can sign up gets to analyze their lifestyle and then go from there. Yes, yes, that's very cool, fantastic And as we can close, what's the success rate you're having with your it sounds I mean, it sounds like a modern health issue. Unseen frequencies, poor diet, poor exercise,
not enough sun and so forth and so on. It's it's like it takes a lot to break down and have apnea, and how much time does it take to recover?
How involved am I? And how involved in this person? Okay, that's a good one. So the more you the more you participate fully heartfelt, the better your solution. Yes, yes, so with so, I track a lot of our statistics and like our little membership site, and it's also just across the board like all these like little like health apps you see. Yeah, so this this the supposed standard average rate, which I believe if someone buys like a like a membership thing, it's like, you know, ten to
twenty bucks a month whatever. About thirty percent of people will use that throughout the month. Seventy percent of people don't, all right, just forget about it, which is I feel that's very similar to like a physical gym.
Right, yeah, exactly.
Can't speak for those people. And then the people who are then active, it's like, yeah, like how active are they? But let's say a scenario, it's like they're more active, they're raising their hand, et cetera, more involved with us. That's something where it can range from. It will be typical. I would say two to five months would be a good range.
That's actually very very good.
There are people in the one month of rage. I don't want to count that or like be like, yeah, four weeks, this is gone, but a lot of people they're in that timeframe and whether they're like yeah, I sleep like they're they're tracking their metrics like they have like a like a tracker. That's why I'm doing this.
I'm not sure what that became, kind of like confrontational tick out a tracker on their hand or wrist, and they're seeing numbers that would indicate they're not having appney episodes, they're falling in that clinical definition of sleep apne or they get a sleep test and it's like, oh yeah, like one lady, what she say? She was like, yeah, so I was my age. I was I think like thirty two in June. It's October right now in June, and I think she was in the program for like
two or three months. And she's like, yeah, I got retested my age. I was one and my sleep doctor was like, yeah, I don't know. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it.
So yeah, Well it's funny because I understand the allopathic model, and it's too bad there can't be a pet kiss institute that people can go to. It's funded by the FDA. You're not you're not pushing enough machines and intervention and surgical procedures for you to Yeah right, yea qualified for the allopathics system, which is sad. It's a sad statement about allopathy. It's just so commercial.
Guy who makes a lot of videos telling people to breathe online, that's my that's my business card.
Well, dude, it's fantastic. It sounds like you're doing a great job and wow, it's uh it sounds like it's effective. So thank you for joining me, Dylan. I was really informative and power more power to you, guy. I appreciate what you're doing.
Thank you, thanks, thanks for having me.
Although the book is helpful and I read it, it's a short read, one hundred and fifty pages. I think the website is the best way to go Apnea reset dot com, apnea A P N E A R E S E T dot com. The website has got a lot of free stuff and you get a sense of what you need to do in terms of the breathing and you know what, it's really lifestyle and this is what he's bringing up. It's our insane Western culture that's
always on the go. It's always on your phone, it's always being bombarded by wavelanes, Wi Fi cellular phones, radiation. He's talking about e m F elect electromagnetic frequencies. I think one of the big ones is and just nutrition. People don't take supplements, and if you're in the typical Western diet, it's a it's a foods that are having a nutrition, corporate farming, you know, not organic meats, vegetables, fish, so far as and so on. You know the routine.
So check out his website and see if you can, you know, get more data. And his books available on Amazon. I bought the Kindle version for four ninety nine, his regular books like twelve. And you know you don't need to use the CPAP machines. You know you really don't, because this is a way to tune up. And the other thing is, if you're to the point where you are having sleep abnea, and I admit this is me too, you're not paying attention. I was not paying attention to
my body. I was not paying attention, and sometimes I still have I wake up, you know, you know, needing to have a breath, you know, oxygen deprive because my tongue slipped back and I shut off my airpipe. So check it out. This is a way to go. It's really something. He's the only one I really think is the way to go, because everything else is these tongue holders, the mouth appliances. He's even got people putting tape on their mouths, so you don't, you know, taking air when
you're asleep. So something to consider. Remember, we're here for tools for transformation, tools for recovery, tools for health, tools for wellness, tools for spirituality. That's what we're all about here on Destiny. Anyhow, I hope you enjoyed that. Hey, we have a number of tours coming up. We have our Guatemala tour December first of the twelfth and we all meet in Guatemala City. We also have a Wonderful
tour in April of two thousand and twenty six. That's our seventh annual Grant Egyptian tour with a Megalithic subtitle meaning we're only looking. We're looking for megalithic sculptures, buildings, pyramids and remains. And that's great. That's a fun tour. All of our tours are half the biblical price of corporate tours fifty percent off. For more information and all the details, go to Earth Agents dot com forward Slash Tours.
If you have any questions on any of our tours, send me an email senter to Earth Ancients to the number four of the letter you at gmail dot com. I will get back to you with all the details. Come on out, come on and join us for the year end tour and Guatemala or join us in Cairo, Egypt April twenty eight through May tenth, twenty twenty six. All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest today, Dylan Petkiss, coming to us from Florida.
As always the team of Gail tour, Mark Foster and Feya out in Pakistan. You guys rock all right, take care of you will and we will talk to you next time.
Don't imagine me and side press showing all things. Let your double tack put your mother's side both of life and angles with a little adit. Why did this get so important?
I don't really.
You can go a little fun for Ed.